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Reports Say Apple Is Shrinking Its Docking Connector With iPhone 5

jones_supa writes "Two sources have told Reuters that Apple's new iPhone will drop the classic wide dock connector used in the company's gadgets for the best part of a decade in favor of a smaller one. The refresh will be a 19-pin connector port at the bottom instead of the previous 30-pin port 'to make room for the earphone moving to the bottom.' That would mean the new phone would not connect with the myriad of accessories playing a part in the current ecosystem of iPods, iPads and iPhones, at least without an adapter. On the upside, a smaller connector will allow for more compact product designs. Some enterprising vendors in China have already begun offering cases for the new phone, complete with earphone socket on the bottom and a 'guarantee' that the dimensions are correct." Gizmodo writer Adrian Covert says it's for your own good.

303 of 427 comments (clear)

  1. Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by GameboyRMH · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm sure MicroUSB and other industry-standard connectors weren't considered. For how many years now has Apple been the last holdout with proprietary connectors?

    Even if they did they'd still find a way to make it proprietary with something like the charger resistor trick or the headphone recess.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    1. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by johnlcallaway · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I was thinking the very same thing. How sad that Apple continues to want to keep an iron fist over their product instead of admitting others may have better ideas. Of course, they didn't really 'invent' anything other than a style. Everything they have done has only incorporated incremental improvements over existing tech. I have yet to see anything truly innovative come out of Apple, other than innovative ways to convince people they have a product worthty the Apple tax and lack of options.

      --
      I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
    2. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      Apple uses proprietary connectors, everyone knows that.

      That being said, connectors change over time, a la USB, Mini-USB, Micro-USB. I don't think Apple moving from the one it's used for 5-6 years to a smaller one is nefarious.

    3. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by GameboyRMH · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apple going through the trouble of abandoning their old proprietary connector and MAKING A NEW PROPRIETARY ONE instead of going to a standard one like every other phone has had for years sounds at least a bit nefarious to me.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    4. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Daniel_is_Legnd · · Score: 1

      The thing about changing between different USB versions is that they are all compatible with one another. I can buy an adapter and my mini-usb is now a micro-usb. From the story, it seems Apple is changing the connector to make people buy new cables, chargers, and accessories.

    5. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by darjen · · Score: 1, Insightful

      This way they can charge $30 for an extra power adapter. I guess if you decide that you really like being a part of the iOS ecosystem, the extra cost will be worth it to you. Judging by the sheer number of iPhone sales, plenty of people think that it is.

    6. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by HarrySquatter · · Score: 1, Insightful

      'For years' is a bit of an exaggeration. It is only very recent that most phone manufacturers started using micro-USB consistently. It's still possible, though, to find phones not using micro-USB that aren't from Apple.

    7. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Guspaz · · Score: 4, Informative

      The "proprietary charger resistor trick" was made part of the USB standard in 2007 (USB Battery Charging Specification), three years before the article you linked to purporting to have discovered "secret resistors" that enable Apple to "artificially restricts iPhone chargers"...

      Apple's no saint, but if you're going to call them out on something, maybe try to stick to stuff they actually did wrong instead of making stuff up. The headphone recess thing might be one, although I'd argue that that was just a dumb design decision rather than an attempt to introduce a proprietary standard; it was still a standard 3.5mm jack, just rendered mostly useless.

    8. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2, Informative

      Before micro-USB there was mini-USB, they're standard connectors that can be forwards and backwards-compatible with simple mechanical adapters. Miniature USB connectors on phones have a long history.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    9. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by tripleevenfall · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do we know there won't be any adapters available? They have produced adapters for their products in the past, such as the numerous display adapters.

      It's kind of "heads I win, tails you lose".

      If Apple moves to a slimmer profile device, people say they are just trying to make people buy new cables. If they stay on an old one, people say they won't give up on their proprietary cables.

      If they produce an adapter, people will say they just want to cash in by selling the adapters. If they don't produce adapters, people say they just want to make you buy new cables.

    10. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by tripleevenfall · · Score: 2

      Every device comes with a power cable, you'd only need to buy additional ones if you wanted to own several of them.

      Most people own a number of Apple cables because they have owned a few different iPods and iPhones. The same thing will happen in the future, it will just be a different cable.

    11. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by bjackson1 · · Score: 5, Informative

      You realize that the dock connector is more than just a USB cable with a weird connector at the end, right? The new 19 pin connector would presumably do the functions of the current 30 pin dock connector, which allows full digital video and audio out, analog audio and video, and control data simultaneously over one connection. I don't believe that this is part of the USB standard.

    12. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem is Apple phones are kind-of a primadonna about how peripherals can interact with them.

      If Apple put a standard port on their phone users would expect anything that will fit to work with the phone. That includes devices that use protocalles iOS does not support.

      Now there is an argument to be made that Apple could simply start supporting more protocalles. However that's never been how Apple rolls. They'd rather say "No it doesn't do that." than have something that "sort of works".

    13. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by HarrySquatter · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And mini-USB was not consistently used among all phones. I and my girlfriend have a few different model flip phones from just 2 years ago from T-Mobile that all have their own proprietary connector. Again, you are highly exaggerating how consistent USB use was and has been until only recently.

    14. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's really sad that you're a fucking piece of shit moron. But we don't really care.

      I can appreciate that people get crazy-sensitive about their mobile phones, but "you're a fucking piece of shit" might be a tad over-the-top.

      Why does it matter to you in the slightest that Apple is using space and components efficiently, instead of creating huge devices with half-a-dozen ports?

      I don't know of anyone advocating half a dozen ports. What I do see is people saying it'd be nice if they used micro-usb like everyone else instead of a proprietary connector.

    15. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by vlm · · Score: 1

      Do we know there won't be any adapters available?

      If apple sells a cable that has "weird new thing" on one end and plain ole PC USB on the other end (for charging, itunes sync, whatever) then there already exist adapters to go from usb-micro cable aka male to desktop USB female.

      People forget the apple connector has at least composite video, maybe more on that little plug. I would not be surprised if the new plug has full HDMI and at least some weird digital SPDIF if not much more.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    16. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by mischi_amnesiac · · Score: 1

      Considering that Apple signed a declaration of intent in 2009 (together with Nokia, RIM, Samsung and others) to use micro USB connectors from 2010 onward (at least in the EU), I'd wager that they won't stick to what they signed for a long time to come. No, what they actually did was releasing an adapter which let you use every other manufacturer's charger to charge an iphone.

      --
      "Die endgueltige Teilung Deutschlands - das ist unser Auftrag." - Chlodwig Poth
    17. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by HarrySquatter · · Score: 1

      Without adapters or proprietary protocols?

    18. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by GameboyRMH · · Score: 5, Informative

      Gonna need a source on that. There are standards that use resistors on the data lines but not in Apple's configuration:

      http://blog.curioussystem.com/2010/08/the-dirty-truth-about-usb-device-charging/

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    19. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Truedat · · Score: 1

      Just wondered if gadgets mostly come with chargers anyway, in which case how would making them standard help? My last few gadgets purchased have been an iPhone 4s, iPhone 4, iPad, nintendo 3ds, nintendo ds lite and some anonymous Nokia feature phone. Every one has shipped with a charger, so standard or no, I'd still have the same mountain of chargers in my possession. The only possible benefit of having a standard is if one day in the future gadgets started shipping sans charger so that you would have to buy one separately.

    20. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by forgent · · Score: 1

      How about by using the Headphone jack? Why not make a small proprietary video out jack for the people who use video out from their iphones? Then they could keep a standard USB micro for data and their own classic apple-style proprietary hardware tax for those who wish to have fullHD video out with digital audio etc etc. So maybe you don't understand because YOU may just be the stupid one in this situation. Apple worship: not even once.

    21. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Why is it that stupid people hate Apple? Is there something about being stupid that I just don't get?

      He's gone Fanboy Super Saiyan! 8-(

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    22. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Cinder6 · · Score: 2

      I'm gonna say that, while I wish everyone used the same connectors, I'm not a fan of micro-USB. The devices (or maybe cables) I have just don't seem to have a tight grip and fall out pretty easily.

      --
      If you can't convince them, convict them.
    23. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by irwiss · · Score: 1

      Meanwhile in a nearby thread...

      USB 3.0 100W Power Standard Seeks To End Proprietary Chargers

      facepalm

    24. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Trevelyan · · Score: 1

      I am pretty sure the MicroUSB connector is now required in the EU.

      Maybe a mircousb plug will fit it for USB and power, but the official Apple plug will have more contacts on it for other functions.

    25. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Known+Nutter · · Score: 1

      According to MacRumors, Apple will provide an adapter.

      http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/23/apple-to-provide-adapter-for-smaller-iphone-dock-connector/

      Yes, I realize its a "rumor" site.

      --
      Beware of the Leopard.
    26. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by chispito · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why is it that stupid people hate Apple? Is there something about being stupid that I just don't get?

      And yet many of us prefer the company of the decent and stupid to the condescending and average.

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    27. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by tlhIngan · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm sure MicroUSB and other industry-standard connectors weren't considered. For how many years now has Apple been the last holdout with proprietary connectors?

      Even if they did they'd still find a way to make it proprietary with something like the charger resistor trick or the headphone recess.

      Rumors have it that the port IS micro-USB compatible. As in, you can plug in a micro-USB cable into it and connect/charge via USB. This would make sense as Apple right now supplies an adapter for EU iDevices for micro USB. This would get rid of the adapter, but not the funtionality of the port.

      If you want the additional connectivity (line-in/out, component video, HDMI, etc) you need the other pins, which would be used for say, a connector adapter. (There are way too many 30-pin accessories out there).

      As for the resistors - they are a brilliant way to do USB charging - because USB chargers do NOT communicate how much power they can provide. If you plug in a USB charger, a device can't tell if it can pull more than 500mA (even then it shouldn't assume it can - USB spec calls for 100mA until you positively identify a charger or get enumerated and told you can draw 500mA). But the charger can provide 800mA, 1A, 2A or more, and you need a quick-and-cheap way of telling the host device that fact. The resistors do that (by pulling the D+/D- lines certain ways).

      FYI - the USB charger spec shorts D+ to D-, and special resistors inside the device detect that (usually through a special line state). But again, it doesn't tell you how much you can draw - a tablet might want 2A, but it can't tell for sure if you plugged it into a wimpy 500mA one. (We've blown a few during development - notably the cheapass chinese crap adapters with no protection).

      An even more proprietary way would be to include an enumeration chip that tells the device over USB what it can draw (which Apple does with its Macs to do "high-speed" charging - the ports negotiate with iDevices to provide I think 1A current).

      The USB spec is violated so often that you can make a rather useless USB host if you adhered to it, for example. The 100mA one is routinely violated (embedded devices with USB host often only provide 100mA). USB hard drives count on the fact most PC manufacturers are cheap and put only one overcurrent switch for a gang of ports (e.g., a 4 port might use a 2A overcurrent switch) so they can draw 1A+ when spinning up without tripping the switch (see this a lot).

      Or USB chargers that provide 500mA, and overheat/explode wen some device goes right ahead and tries to draw 1A.

    28. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Githaron · · Score: 2

      For one, if your friends phone is almost dead, you are likely to have a compatible charger you can let them borrow while they are at your house. Also, it allows more devices to be made they are universally compatible rather than compatible with a single device. Besides, why not sell the chargers separate and give the savings back to the consumer. You could buy a couple of chargers and use them to charge all your devices. When you got a new device, you wouldn't need a new charger. In the end, it is more convenient to the consumer and saves on waste.

    29. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by danudwary · · Score: 1

      Isn't the Apple connector based on firewire, held over from the original iPod days? From what I've read, going to a real USB connector would make adapters much more complicated, and would hinder the I/O capabilities that the current connector has, making a lot of docks with remotes and such not work right. Instead, they're supposedly dropping from 30-pins to 19 in a smaller form factor, dumping some unused legacy pins. So, adapters should be very simple and (hopefully) cheap. As in, maybe even packaged with the new iPhones/iPods.

    30. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by GonzoPhysicist · · Score: 1

      so it's an HDMI and a USB smooshed together?

      --
      horror vacui
    31. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Antarius · · Score: 1

      Yes. He should fuck off without any adapters. ;-)

      (insert joke about M/F, M/M and F/F adapters here)

    32. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Githaron · · Score: 1

      No no no! Do not create a government entity to regulate power adapters. If business want to get together and create a standard, fine. The government should not be involved.

    33. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, you're just going off of non-typical, annecdotal experience. That, or you're completely unaware of how much micro-USB consistency has come in the last several years. 4+ years ago, almost every manufacturer had their own proprietary connectors. Since then, it's become incredibly uncommon to find anything that isn't micro-USB now - you've got the iPhone, and uncommon, low-end phones like you're talking about. The difference is huge. He's not exaggerating.

    34. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by jo_ham · · Score: 4, Informative

      The current 30 pin has all sorts along with USB - composite video, stereo line out, firewire data and power (now unused), ipod accessory control, etc. It's much more than just a micro USB port, but it is overkill now that there's no need for the firewire pins, for example.

      The same sources that have said there will be a new port have also said that an adapter is also in the works.

    35. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by v1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      For how many years now has Apple been the last holdout with proprietary connectors?

      OK then clearly they should have gone with the other industry standard cable that supports power, usb, video, remote volume and play selection, etc. Oh wait, that's right, there isn't another one!

      Your argument is only valid when there are other non-proprietary options. It works well when talking about say, Sony's "i-link" proprietary firewire connector, or any of those proprietary USB connectors on cameras, where they're using a special connector to force you to buy cables and other accessories directly from them at some absurd mark-up. But that's not the case with Apple's dock connector.

      This is the only connector that does it all in discrete pins, vastly simplifying construction of accessories. Even cars are coming with Apple's dock connector in them nowadays. Apple's not being an ass and forcing you to use their connector to do what they could have done with another standard connector. They just happen to have pioneered the market and have been using this one connector for the last decade, with a crapton of accessories being made by other vendors. You don't have to buy your dock from Apple. Try getting an iLink cable from someone besides Sony. (for $35 or so) That's how you abuse proprietary connectors

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    36. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Is there functionality they can do over their connector which can't be covered via existing USB? Bandwidth? Control functions?

      If there's anything they can do in their connector that normally doesn't get provided by USB, then I should think there's nothing at all nefarious about it.

      I've always assumed this was more about additional stuff they could do, not snubbing a standard that doesn't quite cover what they want.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    37. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Zcar · · Score: 1

      Can MicroUSB carry everything the dock connector carries? Line level audio in/out? Composite video? It seems to me they have at least a semi-valid reason for going proprietary to be able to include all the connectivity the dock connector provides without sourcing and finding space within the device for all the different connectors required.

    38. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      So you just want them to add a port just because. The other end of an Apple cable is plain old USB. So Apple is being efficient in use of space and materials and for some reason this bugs you so much that you have to not only not buy the product, but also complain about it on the Internet. Pathetic and stupid all rolled up into a nice little (yeah, right) package.

    39. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by imagined.by · · Score: 1

      plus analog audio/video.

    40. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by bigtrike · · Score: 1

      No, it has analog too. That makes it relatively cheap for device makers to add an iphone dock.

    41. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by David_Hart · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking that you are confused between a mini-USB female port on the phone and the proprietary_connector-to-USB cables.

      mini-USB female ports on phones was consistently deployed on all phones. The only difference was that some phones required AC/DC adapters that put out more power than others. You just have to remember to take the highest rated power adapter with you.

    42. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      I fail to see how it's not condescending to bash Apple for doing their own thing. It really bothers you so much that you have to complain on the Internet?

    43. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Why would they? The iPod/iPhone/iPad power adapter has a standard USB port on it. Why buy a new power adapter when you can just get a new cable with the (alleged) new 19 pin port on it? Alternatively just use an adapter - the same sources talking about the new 19 pin connection have also "confirmed" an adapter.

      There's no reason to think that the new 19 pin port cable will be any different to the current 30 pin cable - for basic charging and syncing, Apple supplies a power supply with a USB port on it and a cable that can connect to it or your computer's USB port. All that's changing is the proprietary end.

    44. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by cpu6502 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      >>> I have yet to see anything truly innovative come out of Apple

      I can think of two things:
      1984 - mouse based OS (yes they copied it from Xerox, but they were first to put it in a home desktop)

      1988(?) - FireWire. A damn fast serial bus. Was used in HD VCRs and camcorders in addition to Macs. Sadly Apple failed to let anyone else use it (so the PC world developed USB instead).

      1991 - PowerPC... though I'm not really sure how much Apple really "contributed" to the design beyond the operating system. PPC is the heart of all modern settop game consoles (and also Amiga computers).

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    45. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by adisakp · · Score: 1

      The Apple Connector has been around since the original iPod although it didn't support USB until the 3rd Gen iPod. Still, it's been very close to a "standard" since 90% of MP3 players, 90% of tablets, 30% of smart phones currently in use the same connector.

      If you have Dock-Based Peripherals, you should still be able to use them in the future with a "Pear" Device (Bluetooth to Apple Dock Converter)..

    46. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Other manufacturers do it over USB. Fuck off.

      [citation needed]

      Show me a phone that outputs HDMI video, stereo line level audio, composite video, or any individual one of those over the micro USB port.

    47. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      No. The connector is based on USB, in the sense that it supports it. There's a reason why the other end looks like a USB plug. Because that's what it is. It's been many years since an iDevice supported Firewire in any form.

    48. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by devman · · Score: 1

      It's been like that for at least 4 years. My BlackBerry Storm used Micro-USB, then I had a Motorola DroidX that used Micro-USB, and now I have a Samsung Galaxy S3 which also use for Micro-USB. That is 3 generations of smartphones from 3 different manufactures that all use the same charging equipment. I still use my BlackBerry chargers (wall and car) to this day. The phone I had before I got in to smartphones was a Motorola RAZR V3c which had Mini-USB and I had that phone for 3 years.

    49. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by BSDimwit · · Score: 1

      It requires that any hardware manufacturers jump through the "Made for iPod/iPhone/iPad" process and licensing before their product can be marketed at being compatible. Yes, there are some costs incurred for the manufacturer that are paid to Apple, along with licensing royalties, but it also ensures that the device being connected behaves the way Apple needs it to behave (i.e., not drawing too much current, etc). Because their cable is proprietary, they can enforce this whereas if it were a micro-usb, they couldn't. This does have a lock-in effect though that I think you are overlooking. Think of all the iPod docks out there, or iPhone car mounts... Lets say you have entire home theatre tricked out and part of that system includes a nice, beautiful dock that only works with Apple's devices... If your iPod dies, what kind of device will you buy to ensure continued compatibility. Yes, this new dock port will force some to reconsider an apple product since their old docks won't work any more, but for those that do choose to buy into the new port, Apple has just locked in a large percentage of those users who might otherwise buy a samsung galaxy if not for the investment they already made.

    50. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You could cover it by putting a USB connector and a mini-HDMI connector next to it, and using a nonstandard detection and pinout to do analog over the HDMI connector when needed.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    51. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ericloewe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Mouse? Not innovative, just applied to a home desktop.

      FireWire? Good for its niche, too expensive for mass adoption on the scale of USB.

      PowerPC? Sure, it's in the consoles, but it's not because it's good - it's cheap enough for them to get custom processors and actually own the design.

    52. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by PerfectionLost · · Score: 1

      ...and clearly it all converts to USB.

    53. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      >>>Mouse? Not innovative, just applied to a home desktop.

      Somebody can't read. I SAID THE SAME THING in my original post. BTW when iphone 5 comes out I hope they reduce the price on the older 4 phone. I want one but $550 is a rather steep cost.

      >>>PowerPC? Sure, it's in the consoles, but it's not because it's good - it's cheap enough for them to get custom processors and actually own the design.

      I fail to see the drawback.
      And how is PPC a "not good" CPU?

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    54. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      FireWire? Good for its niche, too expensive for mass adoption on the scale of USB.

      There's two other factors here, IIRC. One is that Apple, owning Firewire and its patents and such, charged a ridiculously high licensing fee for anyone wanting to use it in a PC. The other factor was the theory that Intel didn't like FW and preferred USB because the latter offloaded a lot more work to the host CPU, while FW did most of its processing on-chip, so this was helpful to Intel sales. Of course, with FW having a more complex controller chip, that would raise its price too, but it's more likely the patent fees were much more significant than just the part cost.

    55. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      It's been a few years IIRC, and in the tech world that's a long time. Moreover, I thought it was an EU law now that mobile phones had to have a microUSB port, so how is Apple avoiding that, unless they're not selling in the EU?

    56. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by joocemann · · Score: 1

      You forgot one projection...

      If they used a standard, people would applaud it and have little criticsm.

      I know you omitted this on purpose fanboi.

    57. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      It was largely driven by an EU law forcing all mobiles phones to have microUSB connectors, because people were so sick of proprietary connectors and the overpriced phone chargers that resulted.

    58. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by TheAlmightyQ · · Score: 1

      A standard 3rd party iphone/ipod USB cable will run you less than $5, at which point any standard USB power source will charge your iDevice. Where are you getting $30 from? Plus, how many manufacturers have used the same physical connector on virtually all their devices for over 9 years? It's not like they're making you go out and buy a new cable/charger every 2-3 years.

      --
      I hope you're not pretending to be evil while secretly being good. That would be dishonest.
    59. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ericloewe · · Score: 1

      They removed firewire a long time ago, making 90% of docks made until then incapable of charging iStuff.

    60. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Except I know for a fact that it supports more than just HDMI. It supports component video, audio. Possibly even more.

      What you're describing is multiple connectors, bodged together with more non-standard stuff, and which still might not cover all of the bases.

      I can see why Apple went with a proprietary adapter. People don't want multiple input/output ports in their phone.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    61. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by kidgenius · · Score: 1

      Galaxy Nexus outputs HD video over the USB connector using MHL. Either get a dongle that converts MHL to HDMI or use a receiving device that has MHL built in. There you go.

    62. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Pope · · Score: 1

      FireWire licenses were a dollar a port when introduced. This later came down quite a lot. USB had no port charges because the system developers had to buy the controller chips from Intel, who didn't double-dip.

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    63. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Hamsterdan · · Score: 1

      *sell the chargers separate and give the savings back to the consumer*

      That will never happen. They will remove the charger, but keep the extra profit.

      --
      I've got better things to do tonight than die.
    64. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by MozeeToby · · Score: 1

      More important than being physically capable of carrying the information, many of the pins are discrete. It's a lot easier to make an accessory that puts the volume up pin high than it is to make an accessory that wraps up a USB packet containing the 'volume up' command.

    65. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      My phone has micro USB and does HDMI. There is no need for component video or audio, that can be broken out by the dock from HDMI.

      Apple should just go micro USB.

    66. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Hamsterdan · · Score: 2

      Audio In, Audio Out, Video Out, Auto Power Off (depending on resistor value), Dock detection, and others...

        http://pinouts.ru/PortableDevices/ipod_pinout.shtml

      --
      I've got better things to do tonight than die.
    67. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      Why not?

      Government action to ensure interoperability is pretty standard. It is why all cars fit in one lane on the highway.

      Heck all the government would have to do is tax $500/device that does not use an industry standard connector. No need for the government to select it, just set standards around it.

    68. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      ...and clearly it all converts to USB.

      No, data connection and power convert to USB, everything else goes unused until a different peripheral is attached. \

      Fun Fact: The Galaxy Tab uses a similar cable that Apple does.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    69. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by msauve · · Score: 1

      1) It's not a law, it's a voluntary agreement among manufacturers (made at the urging of the EU). 2) I understand that Apple includes an adapter cable which allows charging from a micro-USB cable.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    70. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by FrankSchwab · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You have a simple life, eh?

      I have a charger at home, one at work, and a 12V one in each of my family's cars. Still pretty simple, but causes an issue if I change phones. Of course, I picked up a wife too, and if her phone didn't have the same charger as mine, I'd have to divorce her. Then, through mechanisms still somewhat mysterious, we ended up with two children. They have Nintendo DS's, and a portable DVD player for the car (all seperate proprietary chargers). My wife bought an iPad (30-pin), and the kids are getting old enough that we're considering getting them iPods (which, if we wait for the new ones, will have the 19 pin).

      Have you kept count of how many charging cords I need to have yet? Wouldn't it be nice to have one or two identical chargers in each car and in the house, and anyone could charge anything, as opposed to having 5 or 6 different chargers?

      This is a situation where Apple has their head firmly inserted into their rectum. An innovative, customer-oriented company would have put a micro-USB connector with standard USB charging protocols. If you want Audio out, or Video out, or whatever else comes out their dock, have it come out digitally and convert it in the dock.

      --
      And the worms ate into his brain.
    71. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Scragglykat · · Score: 1

      Adapter dongles or cables will no doubt be of little use in docking stations unless you are fine laying your iDevice near the docking device and not actually connecting it to it as was intended.

    72. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by icebike · · Score: 2

      I'm sure MicroUSB and other industry-standard connectors weren't considered. For how many years now has Apple been the last holdout with proprietary connectors?

      Didn't the EU mandate a standardized charger connection? Apple slips through a loop hole by providing an adapter. Like the people who forgot their charger will remember the adapter.

      Why not some teeth in the law? Forbid the import or sale in the EU of any phone that uses ANYTHING other than the standard adapter for charging.

      Or are those draconian measures reserved only for rounded corners? Why does Apple get a pass?

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    73. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by wiredog · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's USB on the other end...

    74. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by mr100percent · · Score: 1

      MicroUSB is very different and not applicable for this case. USB is 4 pins while the new one is 19 pins. Those other pins are for video out, audio out, car docks, etc. Doing it all over USB would require a more complicated (and expensive) circuitry on whatever it's plugged into, Apple's way is better.

    75. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      If Apple isn't going with the standard... They should probably have some sort of mag-lock type connector. I have worn out a connector or two, from just general use, and stress from dropping the device while plugged in.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    76. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by hackertourist · · Score: 1

      Apple changed the iPod dock connector somewhere around the fifth generation iPod, so my old dock accessories won't work with new iPods. I haven't seen adapters to solve this.

    77. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by dbraden · · Score: 1

      The other end looks like a USB plug because that is what is needed to plug it into a USB port for charging and data transfer. The 30-pin/19-pin connector provides additional functionality not available over USB, so it's not just USB with a proprietary connector.

    78. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a smart move by Apple. Their accessary market adds value to their mobile devices and it would be foolish for them to enhance their competitor's devices. I know it's not what you as an open standard enthusiast desire, but...

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    79. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/PDMI

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_High-definition_Link

      Take your pick.

    80. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Well, once again your stunning wit and arrogance aren't helping here.

      My understanding is that certain kinds of signals, once in an HDMI chain, are by the spec not allowed to be turned into anything else. That is, once you hit anything which is HDCP, you're screwed, and there would be no way to actually send composite output. That would result in your mini-HDMI adapter being essentially useless for anything but HDMI -- so good luck with any other cabling formats.

      Tell you what, I will happily accept that I'm wrong if you can accept that you need to stop being such a smug asshole all of the time. If you've got anything else useful to add, feel free -- if all you've got is snark, keep it to yourself.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    81. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Great, so if you have an iPhone, you have to carry around a silly adapter cable all the time.

    82. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      How many of them carry audio and serial?

    83. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by sglewis100 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Apple going through the trouble of abandoning their old proprietary connector and MAKING A NEW PROPRIETARY ONE instead of going to a standard one like every other phone has had for years sounds at least a bit nefarious to me.

      Is it possible that a standard micro or mini USB cable didn't do everything they wanted?

    84. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by msauve · · Score: 1

      Only if you want to slow charge via USB. Otherwise, you carry the Apple charger.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    85. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      "Evolved" here having the same meaning as Microsoft's "Extend." They didn't share their "new standard" with anyone.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    86. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by v1 · · Score: 2

      I'm sort of confused, what do you think the cable does?

      Yes I can see that. On a small device like a phone or ipod there's only room for a couple connectors. Also each connector eats up space on the inside and cuts into battery life. Headphones are a requirement for the ipod and a high value connector on ipad and iphone also. Apple has added one more connector for all the other uses. The current connector does at least:

      - power
      - usb
      - firewire
      - stereo audio out
      - stereo microphone in
      - volume up and down
      - track up and down
      - play/pause
      - menu
      - composite video
      - internal speaker disable

      I suspect you're overlooking all the other functions on that cable, and seeing it as merely a power/USB cable, when it's much more than that.
      (full dock connector specs at http://pinouts.ru/PortableDevices/ipod_pinout.shtml)

      And the accessories you're bemoaning are using a connector that is ten years old. Lets look at some other 10 year old connectors, like scsi, ps/2, serial, adb. None of those are a standard jack on new hardware anymore. It IS a shame to have just bought an accessory that uses a connector that is about to be vintage'd, but it has to happen sooner or later. Let it go. Replace a few old accessories. Buy a new cable or two. And enjoy the next ten years before it inevitably happens again. Go sit on your porch and shake your cane, "Back in MY DAY we didn't have that new-fangled dock connector! All we had was this BIG OLD one, and we LIKED it!"

      Apple just did a similar update with their power connector, the magsafe. It didn't change function much, just got a little slimmer. But Apple is selling an inexpensive adapter so you can continue to use your old spare power brick or charge-from-display. I suspect they will do something like that with the dock connector, and there will likely be 3rd party adapters available also. Such an adapter won't work with most of your "drop-in" accessories, but that can't really be helped. Most of those had problems anyway when a new model of ipod came out, and many of them addressed this problem by having changeable dock inserts. Maybe your accessory manufacturer will release an adapter kit.

      On a somewhat off-topic note, I was hoping Apple was going to upgrade the magport so the center pin was optical for a digital link. The second power adapter I keep at home could have had my external display, ethernet, usb hub, backup hard drive, and speakers all plugged into it. When I got home I'd snap in just the one magsafe cable and be instantly attached to everything. Instead, I come home and have to plug in six cables, several of which really don't handle frequent use well. I wish I had a dock connector for my laptop like I do for my iphone. :(

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    87. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      There's nothing slow about USB charging; typical USB chargers these days can do 1 or 2 amps.

    88. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Githaron · · Score: 1

      Don't be so sure. There is currently a lot of competition in the mobile devices market.

    89. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by MMC+Monster · · Score: 1

      Who's to say they won't give away a free dock adapter for the first couple years? They gave away plastic converters for the first few generation ipods, after all.

      --
      Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
    90. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative

      The real issue was that Intel put USB controllers on south bridge chips. This meant that motherboard makers got USB almost for free - they just needed to put the sockets on the board and connect them to the chip. To support FireWire, they needed to add another chip and connect it to the south bridge via the PCI bus as well as to the socket. The south bridge already had traces going to the PS/2, serial and parallel ports, so adding USB did almost nothing to increase motherboard complexity - they just had to run a few extra traces alongside existing ones. Adding FireWire meant a lot of effort in board layout.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    91. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      And Apple's dock connector is compatible with USB with a simple mechanical adapter. In fact, one comes with every device that has a dock connector.

    92. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by msauve · · Score: 2

      No, the limit for a specification USB charger is 1.5 A. Anything more is out of spec. The limit for the power contacts of a micro-USB connector is 1.8A.

      Charging by plugging into a USB device, like a laptop, is limited to 500 mA.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    93. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by jo_ham · · Score: 5, Informative

      ...and clearly it all converts to USB.

      No, it doesn't. When the USB cable is plugged in (the one that comes with the phone and has a USB port on one end and the 30 pin port on the other) only the USB data pins and the USB power pins - 4 out of the total 30 are connected.

      Actually, the ground pin is probably also connected to the shielding. Five pins.

      The other pins connect when other things are connected, like a docking port on a music system will have the power pins, the accessory control and the line out pins connected. The HDMI adapter will connect to other pins, the video adapter will connect to the line out pins and the video pins.

      The USB cable with the standard USB port on the end *absolutely does not* convert all those things down so that they work over USB. It connects the two data pins and the 5V power only.

    94. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Oh? I'd like to see you get any of those things except power and USB data off a USB plug.

    95. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Githaron · · Score: 1

      First off, it is unnecessary. There has to be some sort of standardization on cars sizes but there does not need to be for device chargers ports. Yes, it is convenient but not necessary. Second off, when you involve the government, things tend to slow down considerably. What happens when a new and better standard comes out? It would probably take huge chunks of money and considerable time to get the government to agree to the new standard. It also gives special privileges to a single company rather than letting the best standard win in the market. Also, what you mentioned is more of a fine than a tax. Besides, as markets mature compatibility is usually in the best interests of companies. Yes, it means a customer can more easily move to another company's products but no one wants to be the only company not compatible with everyone else. Consumers tend to like compatibility. Apple has been able to hold out longer because of the fanboyism that they have fostered.

    96. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Galaxy Nexus outputs HD video over the USB connector using MHL. Either get a dongle that converts MHL to HDMI or use a receiving device that has MHL built in. There you go.

      Nice. Connection agnostic standard, so I assume the phone reassigns the pins as necessary depending on the device on the other end of the cable. That's cool.

    97. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by tooyoung · · Score: 2

      Ah, but it doesn't have to convert to USB. This is what you and apparently 2/3 of posters on this article don't seem to understand - the Apple connector can output to HDMI, S-Video, component video, VGA, RGB, component audio, etc. One cool thing about supporting component output is that you don't have to have a chip that can interpret USB on the device that you are outputting to. This means that you iProduct can be used to broadcast to most devices that you already own. It also allows device manufacturers to cut costs. You know all of those iPod stereo devices? They are just taking analog audio. Those machines at the gym that have screens that you can plug your iPhone into and watch your videos? They are just taking analog video.

    98. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The EU regulation has an loophole, which means that as long as Apple puts a dock to micro-USB adaptor in the box they comply. As to the dock vs micro-USB issue, most people seem to be missing the fact that the dock connector does a lot more than USB. It also contains audio line in and out, component and s-video, serial, USB, and FireWire (not in recent ones). USB is a step backwards. A modern replacement for the dock should ideally contain display port or HDMI video and a switchable line out / S/PDIF or similar. Personally, I'd love to see Thunderbolt ports on mobile devices.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    99. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Yeah, except the ones who use one of the extra functions of the dock connector. People who use devices that dock iDevices, for example (there are a LOT of those). People with car adapters. People who use the composite out. People who use the line out.

    100. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by chefmonkey · · Score: 1

      Where are the analog audio out pins on USB? Or do I need to have a USB host controller in my cheap speaker dock just to interface with a device in your world? how about the audio in pins?

      Where are the USB pins that allow a USB device (not a host, but a device) to provide power to an accessory?

      Where is the Pr/Pb/Y component output on a USB plug? Composite video? HDMI? VGA? S-Video? Because the dock adapter has pins for all of those things.

    101. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      I really would be 100% happy with demanding it be able to be powered by a standard USB plug. Which apple does, so that takes care of that. Far better than the bad old days when every phone had its own special car charger.

    102. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by keytoe · · Score: 1

      It's USB on the other end...

      Well, the stock cable is because all it does is USB and charge. Many other devices, peripherals and cables on the other hand do more and make use of those additional connections.

    103. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Only for charging and data transfer. Any device that uses any of the extra functions (and there are a LOT... any speaker system that has a dock connector, or car kit, for example) is definitely NOT USB on the other end.

    104. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2

      Plus analog audio and video, plus a control spec so you don't have to implement a full USB host in your peripheral.

    105. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by brentrad · · Score: 1

      Show me a phone that outputs HDMI video, stereo line level audio, composite video, or any individual one of those over the micro USB port.

      As far as HDMI video - here you go:

      1) A dock that connects to the Samsung Galaxy Nexus micro-USB port and provides HDMI out.
      http://www.droid-life.com/2012/03/23/review-samsung-galaxy-nexus-hdmi-portrait-desktop-dock/

      2) An adapter dongle that connects to the micro-USB port of various Android phones, including the Galaxy Nexus, to provide HDMI out including 7.1 audio.
      http://www.cellphoneshop.net/mhlhdmi.html?cagpspn=pla&gclid=CJnS5PfysrECFQQJRQodj2EAQg

      This is actually pretty common with modern Android phones, it's called MHL (Mobile High-Definition Link.) It also includes a command bus between the mobile device and the TV, but haven't heard whether that's supported by any common TVs or smartphones.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_High-Definition_Link

    106. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Slashdot. What have you become?

      Yes, the little white cable you get with your iPhone is a USB to dock adapter. It only connects the USB pins.

      Have you noticed the odd device around that has an actual dock connector and DOESN'T use those white cables? Speaker systems, car kits, some new cars, FM transmitters, Nike+ adapters, video/audio out adapters, blood glucose meters....

      Those all use one of the non-USB functions present on the dock connector.

    107. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Both of those are newer than the dock connector (MHL isn't even finished yet) and neither provides all the functions of the dock connector, although PDMI possibly could suffice.

    108. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      That's okay, because BigCorporation02 uses Android, so they must have goodness in their hearts.

    109. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Don't forget that because the USB standard isn't peer to peer, not only do you have to make a USB packet, you have to implement a USB host controller.

    110. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      I don't have the original 2007 spec (v1.1), but the current 2010 version of the spec (v1.2) is available here:

      http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/BCv1.2_011912.zip

      I'm not an electrical engineer, and most articles claiming Apple devices don't adhere to the spec either provide no sources are use the same ladyada.com article as a source. That said, it would appear that I was wrong.

    111. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by TheNinjaroach · · Score: 1

      Wow! I can't believe Firewire was developed in the late 80's. That's much further ahead of USB than I remembered.

      Anyways, Apple did share Firewire, also known as IEEE 1394, with the rest of the PC world. Sony championed it across most of their PC & Laptop lines, and I have it on a Dell laptop from 2003.

      --
      I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
    112. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by forgent · · Score: 1

      "So you just want them to add a port just because." Have you been reading what you're spouting? At all? They are already adding a port!!!! They are removing the old port. They are investing R&D into a problem that they themselves are manufacturing: -A new connector for smaller form factor. Instead of R&D money going into a new single port, why not use the **already developed** (this is the big point, in case you still can't pick up on it) USB micro standard??? They could couple that with a small dedicated A/V port for the few number of people who do use the video out function of their iDevice but haven't clued into airplay over AppleTV. Not only would they SAVE MONEY on R&D this way, they would actually still be able to save space since the USB micro is MUCH smaller than the current connector and having two separate ports would mean that they have even more configuration options since they can separate the two small ports. This would ALSO have the benefit of helping the customers. You know, the ones best benefited by a adopting an industry standard so that docks/accessories wouldn't have to change every time Apple gets antsy in their panties? Instead, you honestly think it is better for them to R&D a whole new fat all-in-one port with ZERO accessories/cables currently on the marketplace for purchase? You SERIOUSLY have the ignorant gall to think that this is in ANYONE'S best interest than Apple's own greedy ass? Give me a break. Get off apple's nuts. It makes you look as foolish as they.

    113. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ottothecow · · Score: 1
      Amazon already does this. The kindle comes with a USB cable and you have to pay an extra $5 or something for a wall charger.

      Of course you might argue that they aren't giving the savings back to the consumer (although if they are selling at a loss, then I suppose it doesn't matter) but we are all benefiting from the environmental savings since they didn't have to manufacture another power brick. I already have several phone chargers and a whole host of devices with USB ports that are all up to the task of charging my kindle.

      --
      Bottles.
    114. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      What standard has video out?
      What standard has stereo out?
      What standard has accessory control?

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    115. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by s.o.terica · · Score: 4, Informative

      I don't know of anyone advocating half a dozen ports. What I do see is people saying it'd be nice if they used micro-usb like everyone else instead of a proprietary connector.

      I think his point, however poorly made, was that if they did switch to micro-USB, there would have to be more ports to supplement the additional capabilities the dock connector is used for (line-level analog audio, analog and HDMI video, additional power options, etc). At the very minimum, there would have to be a second minijack connector to provide line-level audio, in a standardized location across all their devices so that it could still be placed in a dock, along with a separate stabilizing mechanism since otherwise you would have to rely on the minijack connector and micro-USB connector holding the device in place. This sounds like a less elegant solution by far. And is likely the reason that no other manufacturer has a docking standard that works across all of their devices.

    116. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by itsdapead · · Score: 5, Informative

      I have yet to see anything truly innovative come out of Apple,

      Well, not if you define "innovation" as actually inventing a completely brand new idea from scratch, and don't give any credit to the hard part - selling it. "Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door" is an aphorism only exceeded in utter wrongness by "look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves".

      The story of Apple's life has been "they may not have invented (x) but they were one of the first to turn it into a desirable product and successfully market it..." where X includes the GUI and mouse, local area networking, the laser printer, PostScript - and hence desktop publishing, full motion video on PC (Quicktime was at the cutting edge of this) - and hence nonlinear video editing... some of us were around when these things were taking off and people sure as hell weren't using IBM PCs for them (Amigas and Acorns maybe).

      And the original Mac is something of a design classic...

      Then you have the modern laptop - with the keyboard set back and a central pointing device in front, as debuted on the first Powerbooks. Maybe not the Manhattan project, but virtually every other laptop since has copied it. Pretty sure that the previous Mac "Portable", though deemed a flop, was the first portable to use an active-matrix (TFT) display.

      Using a RISC processor? RISC vs. CISC is almost irrelevant now (since modern CISC processors have assimilated the good bits of RISC design) but it used to be the Next Big Thing and Apple were the second to market with a RISC-based personal computer (Acorn were first by a long margin, but not really significant outside of the UK, although the ARM processor they developed didn't do badly - Apple played a big role in the later development of that, too). Then there's Digital Cameras - again, not the first but one of the first viable consumer products.

      Of course, the Newton wasn't innovative at all because some guy at Xerox had sketched one on a beer mat 20 years before (and anyway, Steve Jobs planted the whole Newton thing when he was using a time machine to set up the great iPhone conspiracy).

      Then there's USB. Apple certainly didn't invent that, but before the iMac the only use for it was the slightly increased airflow from those two funny square sockets on the back of your PC that Windows 95 didn't really support. There was a reason why most of the first mass-market USB peripherals had translucent blue cases...

      So, what have Apple done for us this century? Well, every year in the 80s and 90s was going to be The Year of Unix on the Desktop. Apple finally did it with OS X (yes, there's Linux - which succeeded on servers, embedded devices an Android but has yet to get large scale adoption on the desktop). They managed to fairly seamlessly switch from PPC to Intel using emulation/recompilation (quite an achievement) and popularised Small Form Factor computers. We've had vastly improved trackpads on laptops (seriously - I always had to carry a mouse around until Apple introduced the new multitouch trackpads). Now we have an external PCIe bus (thunderbolt) which may or may not take off, and they've just doubled the linear resolution of their laptop display at a time when everybody else had decided that 1080p was enough.

      I won't mention the iPod/iPhone because everybody knows that they were invented by Samsung after being inspired by the "news pad" in the film 2001, and that Apple copied them and then used a time machine to go back and launch the iPhone at a time when Android phones looked like this.

      So please suggest some other companies with anything like that track record. Microsoft/IBM? Well, turning the personal computer into a commodity was pretty damned significant (not so sure that it was progress), but apart from that...

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    117. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It was largely driven by an EU law forcing all mobiles phones to have microUSB connectors, because people were so sick of proprietary connectors and the overpriced phone chargers that resulted.

      A link to an article about that law you're talking about. CNET News Mobile Apple, others agree to universal cell phone charger standard in Europe

      I still don't understand how Apple is getting away with not following the standard.

    118. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by joocemann · · Score: 1

      If your argument were true, smatphones with microusb ports (standard) wouldn't be capable of those same things. To your misfortune, many are, and whether or not they can is an option, not a limit.

      Try again.

    119. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The new 19 pin connector would presumably do the functions of the current 30 pin dock connector, which allows full digital video and audio out, analog audio and video, and control data simultaneously over one connection. I don't believe that this is part of the USB standard.

      MHL does something very similar, and can (and is) used with micro-USB connectors.

    120. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ericloewe · · Score: 1

      PowerPC seems to have lost a direction. Intel is aggressively pushing x86 toward lower power applications and more integration with peripheral components. AMD is trying to cram more "cores" in the same amount of die space while pushing for more GPU integration. ARM vendors mostly seem to be trying to enter the desktop space using larger processors. Hell, MIPS found itself a niche in the low-cost market (think embedded devices like home routers).

      What is anyone currently doing with the PowerPC architecture? The idea of a regular POWER core with many vector units attached (Cell) failed pretty miserably, with only one commercially successful application. The Xeon (360 processor) was mostly a derivative of the main core of the Cell processor, thereby reducing costs. Nintendo probably stuck with essentially a higher-clocked GameCube processor in the Wii (and presumably Wii U) to keep costs down and provide easy backward compatibility. Only IBM seriously considers POWER for anything.

    121. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ericloewe · · Score: 1

      Besides, USB 2.0 improved speed a lot, which meant that the pool of devices that needed firewire shrunk considerably.

    122. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      All the ones I found for Android used the headphone port for audio (not line out, which is much higher quality), couldn't control volume and/or playback, or was very expensive because it had to do everything over USB (and required a special app) or Bluetooth. If you can find one, please share.

      Some Android devices can do analog video out via their headphone jacks. Which means if you want to charge at the same time you need two cables. And again, if you want to have off-device controls you need a full USB implementation.

      I found a couple of Android speaker docks. Like this one: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/mobile-gadgeteer/finally-a-universal-speaker-dock-for-android/5506. It requires connecting a couple of cables, and using a special app for playback control.

      From the review:

      Again, if you have an iPhone or iPod dock, this may not sound like a huge feature set, but if you have an Android phone, this is heaven.

      Given the scarcity of speaker docks for Android, the $100 price is worth the experience.

      Perhaps you should try again? Or not....

    123. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by acoustix · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think his point, however poorly made, was that if they did switch to micro-USB, there would have to be more ports to supplement the additional capabilities the dock connector is used for (line-level analog audio, analog and HDMI video, additional power options, etc).

      At the very minimum, there would have to be a second minijack connector to provide line-level audio, in a standardized location across all their devices so that it could still be placed in a dock, along with a separate stabilizing mechanism since otherwise you would have to rely on the minijack connector and micro-USB connector holding the device in place. This sounds like a less elegant solution by far. And is likely the reason that no other manufacturer has a docking standard that works across all of their devices.

      Why not provide three ports at the bottom of the device: 1/8" headphone jack, micro USB and micro HDMI? Use those as the docking ports. Viola! No proprietary connectors needed. You can use each of the three ports independently when not docked. The dock would then consist of one, two or all three connectors depending on the functionality of the dock.

      Problem solved.

      --
      "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
    124. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      FireWire was already dying by that point. I had a couple of drives that had FireWire 400, FireWire 800 and USB 2. FW800 was clearly superior: I could plug both of them into a single port on my laptop and still not be bottlenecked by the connection. USB2 couldn't quite match FW400 in real-world usage. But there were very few computers with FW400, let alone FW800, so there was little incentive for device manufacturers to use FireWire (and produce more expensive devices, since FireWire was no host-device model).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    125. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by baerd · · Score: 1

      Yes cars with 30 pin connectors ... as someone who has a car that came with only a apple 30 pin connector and who owns an Android phone I sure wish it wasn't a proprietary standard. I understand that there wasn't a competing standard at the time, and that they wanted to drive sales of apple products but as a consumer who chose not to buy an apple product I am definitely annoyed. There just aren't any products up here in Canada that you can use to plug your android phone into a 30 pin connector. I know I could blame the car manufacturer for choosing a proprietary standard but honestly what else could they do without a competing standard? Why isn't there one after all this time?

      --
      I wish I had a lawn.
    126. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      Anon.Coward got so many facts wrong I'm not sure where to start.

      - Microsoft didn't release windows until 1985... a year after Apple's Mac.
      - Nintendo developed firewire? I don't see any evidence of that.
      - PowerPC is not "only" used in Xbox360. It's also used in PlayStation3, the Gamecube, and the Wii (same CPU as gamecube but faster clock rate & other small modifications).

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    127. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      I think his point, however poorly made, was that if they did switch to micro-USB, there would have to be more ports to supplement the additional capabilities the dock connector is used for (line-level analog audio, analog and HDMI video, additional power options, etc)

      Yeah, because there is absolutely no way you can do audio or video over USB.

      C'mon, Apple! You got rid of ADB once the rest of the world caught up! You can certainly do it again.

    128. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      I still don't understand how Apple is getting away with not following the standard.

      I guess with a micro-usb to 'dock' connector adapter?

      I don't think the standard has to be on the phone physically...as long as there is an adapter, it meets the legality of the law...?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    129. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Inda · · Score: 1

      I don't understand.

      I simply plug my Android into my cheap DVD player via USB. Everything is then controlled through the DVD remote. 5.1 speaker set up. MP3 or MP4. Cheap.

      Is there something special about speaker docks that I don't see?

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    130. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Algae_94 · · Score: 1

      1991 - PowerPC... (and also Amiga computers).

      Amiga computers used 68k series Moto chips NOT PowerPC.

      Someone may have bought the Amiga name and put it on a box with a PowerPC chip, they also may have put the name on a box full of crap. A lot of terrible things have been done to the name since Commodore's bankruptcy.

    131. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by mpe · · Score: 1

      And the accessories you're bemoaning are using a connector that is ten years old. Lets look at some other 10 year old connectors, like scsi, ps/2, serial, adb. None of those are a standard jack on new hardware anymore.

      USB is closer to 20 years old. It's perfectly possible to find PS/2 keyboard and mouse connectors on new hardware. Along with parallel ports; serial ports (typically as a DIL connector on the board rather than as part of the ATX connector block); floppy and PATA ports. There are even boards which have 'SuperIO' in the chipset and BIOS configuration without any physical connections present.
      The SCART AV connector is also still going strong. The 3.5mm TRS mini jack appears to date from the 1950's. (But is variation on the 1â4 inch jack, first used in 1878!) Thus if it was just an issue of age then would have made more sense to think about replacing the 50+ year old connector :)

    132. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      The current 30 pin has all sorts along with USB - composite video, stereo line out, firewire data and power (now unused), ipod accessory control, etc. It's much more than just a micro USB port, but it is overkill now that there's no need for the firewire pins, for example.

      Maybe it's this guy.

      There's not much that an iPod can do that can't be communicated over USB and DisplayPort.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    133. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Vancorps · · Score: 1

      While I agree that there is a more civil way to disagree you are wrong. If iPhone is connected to an HDCP compliant device then you are in the same boat regardless of the connector you use. I'm not sure what content on the iPhone is locked using HDCP but most content I would put on such a device is not locked and thus can be split. HDMI 1.4 does not say you cannot down convert in it's spec, that is left up to content usage of HDCP to determine.

      Honestly I see little reason for the proprietary connector other than ensuring that the Apple ecosystem remains the Apple ecosystem which has proved in the past to be a lucrative market so it's no suprise to see Apple bucking the trend of every other phone manufacturer out there.

    134. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by JimCanuck · · Score: 1

      1984 - mouse based OS (yes they copied it from Xerox, but they were first to put it in a home desktop)

      While Apple copied it from Xerox first, many companies were working on mice as inputting methods for nearly 2 decades before Apple released it. And they were first by a hair, many companies that didn't take such a direct route at copying Xerox's product had a mouse to market within a year, including Microsoft, who's method of tracking movement of mice on a computer is the standard to which all, including modern Apple mice are made to today.

      1988(?) - FireWire. A damn fast serial bus. Was used in HD VCRs and camcorders in addition to Macs. Sadly Apple failed to let anyone else use it (so the PC world developed USB instead).

      USB was designed in 1994, Firewire was not designed till the following year in 1995.

      1991 - PowerPC... though I'm not really sure how much Apple really "contributed" to the design beyond the operating system. PPC is the heart of all modern settop game consoles (and also Amiga computers).

      Linux and BSD have been on PPC for ages, and PPC is still being used for many other UNIX operating systems on IBM equipment.

      What is next Fanboy going to claim Apple invented the Internet?

    135. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by kd4zqe · · Score: 1
      The problem with Apple's model is that THEY want to set the standard and force other's compliance for licensing fees. The problem for them is that existing standards are already in place, causing Apple to look like a spoiled child when something doesn't go their way.

      The EU introduced their standard for charging via micro-USB and forced Apple to release an adapter to comply.

      The European Commission announced in 2009 that 10 mobile phone producers, including Apple, LG, Motorola, NEC, Nokia, Qualcomm, Research in Motion, Samsung, Sony Ericsson, and Texas Instruments, agreed to adopt a standardized charger in order to minimize the "needless electronic waste" caused by the proliferation and regular updating of mobile phone.

      Why not create some goodwill amongst the users here, Fruit-boys? My Infuse4G does HDMI just fine out of this port (yes, it uses a dongle, but just build the tech into the dock!).

      Sometimes the "I'll take my ball and go home!" attitude is a bit much.

      --
      You're not paranoid if they really ARE out to get you...
    136. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by nabsltd · · Score: 1

      Only if you want to slow charge via USB. Otherwise, you carry the Apple charger.

      If I were a conspiracy nut, I'd say that Apple is going for the trifecta with this new connector:

      1. It's still proprietary.
      2. it's not directly compatible with the old connector (although an adapter might work).
      3. It still allows you to charge the battery very quickly, which is not good for rechargeable batteries if done regularly, and the battery on the iPhone is not user-replaceable (i.e., the back of the phone is not intended to be opened by the user).
    137. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Yep, as the other poster said, apparently they get away with having an included dongle connector. So if you have an iPhone, you're expected to carry around this stupid dongle if you want to use anyone else's charger. Lovely. So much for their phone being so thin and efficiently-designed.

      With my Android phone with microUSB connector, I can plug it into any microUSB cable I come across, which is pretty frequent: friends' car chargers, etc. The iPhone buyers are going to be pretty annoyed when they find out the hard way what it's like to go back to having a proprietary and non-ubiquitous connector with iPhone 5 (unless they've somehow made it so it'll accept a microUSB cable in addition to having the extra functionality): while these days you can expect your Apple-using friends, and various charging stations to have the current dock connector just because it's so popular, that won't be the case for the new one for a while.

    138. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ryanov · · Score: 1

      Well, the current result is that nearly everyone can use a cell phone charger these days that is lying around the house, except people with iPhones. While the ubiquity of iPhones means that it's probably a good chance that someone has that charger around too, everyone else already fixed this problem and it's been really convenient to have the same charging cable as nearly everyone.

    139. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Well I personally don't have a shitty iPhone for one, but anyway, personally, I carry my phone in a holster fitted for the phone. I don't really want to carry some extra dongle cable around in my pocket, plus if it's small it could easily fall out and get lost when I'm pulling my keys out of my pocket. I thought the whole point of iPhones was that they made it as thin and small as possible; having to carry around some stupid dongle cable kinda ruins that. It's kinda like how many laptops try to advertise how thin and sleek and lightweight they are, but they haven't mentioned the size of the power brick that you have to carry around with it.

    140. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      that would make too much sense for apple (or really anyone,even moto and others dont standardize where their ports are located) to do

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    141. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Well, once again your stunning wit and arrogance aren't helping here.

      It's not clear that anything can be done to help someone as devoid of wit as yourself. I note you found someone to downmod my entirely accurate comment, though. Is that your second account, or just a fanboy?

      My understanding is that certain kinds of signals, once in an HDMI chain, are by the spec not allowed to be turned into anything else.

      That has nothing to do with this situation whatsoever because there is no HDMI chain involved. I'm talking about disconnecting HDMI from the HDMI port and connecting something else when the appropriate connection is made. This could for example be a typical resistor-type detection, which would be inexpensive to implement, but which would provide a standards-based HDMI connection in any other case.

      I will happily accept that I'm wrong if you can accept that you need to stop being such a smug asshole all of the time.

      When I say something completely factual and using relatively simple English given the subject matter and you say something staggeringly stupid that makes it clear that you didn't understand the comment at all, you're going to get some snark back. If you can't handle that, perhaps real life is not for you. I said "using a nonstandard detection and pinout to do analog over the HDMI connector" and you took that to mean "using an HDMI to analog adapter". How you made that decision I don't know, but it seems almost like you were replying to some other comment. If that were the case, it would be justification for smug. If it's not the case, it's still justification for smug, because you are so very, very wrong, and you are trying to correct me anyway.

      My audience likes a little smug when I don't lose my shit. You are obviously not my audience if instead of going back and rereading my comment and yours to determine particularly where your error lay, you instead decided to compound your failure by continuing to comment along the same erroneous lines, and to cry about how you got some snarkiness for leaving a comment that proves you are one variety or another of total boob.

      If all you've got is stupid, keep it to yourself.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    142. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      My past 3 phones on 2 year contracts had micro usb, Id say thats a fairly long time in computer years

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    143. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      any adapter adds a break point in the system... adapters suck

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    144. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      so...as he said, 1-2 amps...

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    145. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      you clearly dont remember when cell phones were new and 99% of them came with the dock by default, now its a 50$ accessory

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    146. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      USB was designed in 1994, Firewire was not designed till the following year in 1995.

      Firewire wasn't "designed" in 1995; that was merely the year the first widely adopted version of the standard was released. Its development history does in fact go back to the 1980s. Industry standards like these do not spring forth fully formed from the forehead of Zeus.

      IIRC, USB had a much shorter gestation, so it is in fact accurate to say that Firewire is the older of the two. Also GP is completely out to lunch with the "Apple failed to let others use it [Firewire] (so the PC world developed USB instead)" comment. Apple started development of Firewire, but it was an industry standard with participation from heavy hitters like TI, IBM, and Sony.

      Not to mention that USB was in no sense designed to be a realistic replacement for Firewire. IEEE 1394-1995 aka Firewire: supported 100, 200, and 400 Mbps full duplex, large packets for efficiency, and a rather sophisticated peer-to-peer bus architecture which allowed any device to be a bus master. USB 1.x: supported 1.5 and 12 Mbps half duplex, small inefficient packets to keep buffer sizes low (reduces implementation cost), and a much less sophisticated protocol in which peripherals are all slaves which can only talk on the bus when the host computer tells them to.

      USB was designed to be a bus which was appropriate for mice and keyboards and other low bandwidth cost sensitive peripherals. Firewire was a generalized replacement for SCSI, a high speed high cost peripheral bus.

    147. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      exactly

      if the PC is offline, will a PC recognize a mac cable? (I dont know I am asking)

      will it recognize a USB cable??

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    148. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      ">>> I have yet to see anything truly innovative come out of Apple I can think of two things: 1984 - mouse based OS (yes they copied it from Xerox, but they were first to put it in a home desktop)"

      you mean you said this or is there another post you are referring to ?

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    149. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      I'm sure Apple gets its feelings *really* hurt when people 'condescendingly' suggest that they should be using a standard goddamn connector like everybody else.

      The problem is that you've internalized your ownership of Apple products to the point that you take any criticism -- no matter how valid -- of them as a company as a personal attack on yourself. I own Apple hardware -- I have an original iPod Nano (the scroll wheel + flash memory was, IMO, what made it the best MP3 player for my own uses at the time), I've got an old clamshell Macbook that I sometimes use as a generic Unix-y test environment, and a beefy quad-core MacBook Pro for when I'm on the road. I'm not fanatical about them as a company though, so when they do stupid shit I can call them on it without feeling like I'm attacking a small part of myself. Once you get over that, you might even be able to criticize them as well -- it's going to be tough for you though, because fans of Apple exhibit the same brain patterns (look it up) as religious people, and we all know how tough it is to lose religion. You're not alone though -- see also jo_ham, kthreadd, and SuperKendall. Maybe you guys can all get together and start a recovery group.

      But back on topic -- personally, I've been doing home AV stuff since I was a teenager. I like to be able to buy shit that you can just plug together and it works. You can get a Denon amp and a Toshiba CD player and a Samsung TV and hook it all up using standard connections and none of it has any issues. With Apple's dock connector, that's no longer the case: I have to buy special hardware to get it wired up to my system, and if I ever want to use a different manufacturer's MP3 player, that special hardware is now useless landfill fodder.

      NOTE: If Apple had opened up the female end of their dock connector as a standard to the rest of the industry, and industry had adopted it and I could go out and get any MP3 player and have it hook into this de-facto standard port on my hardware, then that would be great. Instead, they only license the MALE end, because they don't want any competition. And no, creating a differently shaped connector with X number of input/output lines is *not* in any way novel or worthy of patent protection. Even creating a protocol to talk over this connector is not in any way novel or worthy of patent protection. Now there's a cottage industry of iDevice-only accessories that could just as easily work with a different connector, but no other individual player in the market has the clout to build such a standard connection. So in this case, fuck them and their proprietary connector(s) straight to hell.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    150. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Since you're not providing much information, it sounds like your DVD player is using a USB mass storage interface to your Android device. Which means your DVD player implements a USB host controller, understands filesystems, and has an audio/video decoder. That's a lot of hardware to put into a cheap speaker dock, or an FM transmitter.

      Basically, with everything going through USB, your DVD player needs to have all the smarts because it's treating your Android device as a dumb USB hard drive. With a more capable connection like Apple's dock connector, the smartphone does the work and the external hardware can be dumb - thus cheap, small simple and very low (or no) power.

    151. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Boycott+BMG · · Score: 1

      So you can connect the microUSB from the phone to a TV and play video, show pictures, play music, mirror games all through the TV?

      Cool!

      Can you show me how?

      You can do that if your phone's microUSB is an MHL port.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEb-DICYCgg

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_High-Definition_Link

    152. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      no it IS between 1 and 2 though, which 1-2 means....

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    153. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      The story of Apple's life has been "they may not have invented (x) but they were one of the first to turn it into a desirable product and successfully market it..." where X includes the GUI and mouse, local area networking, the laser printer, PostScript - and hence desktop publishing, full motion video on PC (Quicktime was at the cutting edge of this) - and hence nonlinear video editing... some of us were around when these things were taking off and people sure as hell weren't using IBM PCs for them (Amigas and Acorns maybe).

      PostScript was Adobe, not Apple.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    154. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Kalriath · · Score: 2

      More power-draining devices can negotiate a higher power output if the bus is capable of supplying it. That's in spec.

      However, Apple devices won't. They'll ask for a higher power output only if they see iTunes running on a Mac (ever wondered why iPads always report "Not Charging" when plugged into a PC?).

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    155. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by joocemann · · Score: 1

      What about your post was supposed to refute my point?

      As I said before, everything in your initial claim is possible through the microusb. I have had smartphones that do line out, hdmi out, docking/audio, and more.

      The point was that everything apple will do is possible through the microusb port and your original point is not valid.

      Its not my fault your google search stopped when my point started to look valid. And I'm not here to spoonfeed fanatics.

      I know I'm replying to the finger you're keeping jammed in your ear, so we can end this. Bye.

    156. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by joocemann · · Score: 1

      All you need for a speaker dock is a 1/8" plug, or 3 wires from a microusb connection.

      Tip, Ring, Sleeve.

      Now you can pretend that actual devices that even have controls don't exist, even though they do.

      Keep playing dumb. It looks natural.

    157. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by joocemann · · Score: 1

      Here's your spoon. My first search, first result.

      Dock uses microusb or bluetooth. Has volume controls and more functionaity. Stfu. Keep playing dumb, dummy.

        http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005HY4UG4/ref=aw_d_detail?pd=1&qid=1343183369&sr=8-1

      Waiting for you to nitpick some insignificant point, like a 3rd party app component, as if apple's first party hardware and integration isn't through the same technological basis.... and also to keep distracting the blunt and obvious point I made about how apple could achieve the same things with industry standards.

    158. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by msauve · · Score: 1

      "power-draining devices can negotiate a higher power output if the bus is capable of supplying it. That's in spec."

      No, it isn't.

      For USB 2.0, the maximum draw is 500 mA (Ipphcf, USB 2.0 spec, section 7.2.1, "may draw up to 5 unit loads," which are defined to be 100 mA) . USB 3.0 allows up to 900 mA. The USB Battery Charging spec, version 1.2, allows a maximum draw of 1.5 A for a portable device (Idev_chg, section 4.6), but is used for dumb chargers, as the data lines are shorted by 200 Ohms. Additionally, the micro-USB spec only requires a 1.8 A rating for power contacts, setting a maximum safe limit unless a manufacturer can reliably identify the end-to-end use of higher rated connectors. Apple uses a non-standard method to recognize that more is available, and presumably uses connectors with ratings exceeding what's required by the spec.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    159. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      wouldnt be wrong, wouldnt be the right way to say it, but it would in fact be "true"

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    160. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by gullevek · · Score: 1

      Because that is more shit to build in, and more shit that can break, and confuse people. Micro HDMI and Micro USB look very very similar. Have fun with "I plugged in my phone and now nothing works anymore".

      --
      "Freiheit ist immer auch die Freiheit des Andersdenkenden" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1871 - 1919
    161. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Wow, you're just charming, aren't you?

      Clearly having to use Bluetooth AND USB is MUCH simpler than the wires and possibly a transistor or two interface you can make to an iPod.

      It's clear you're not able to have a civil conversation AND can't process points of view that differ from your own, so I don't see any future in this conversation.

    162. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by v1 · · Score: 1

      I know I could blame the car manufacturer for choosing a proprietary standard but honestly what else could they do without a competing standard? Why isn't there one after all this time?

      It probably wouldn't get very far. There are so many Apple i-devices out there right now that all use that same connector, there's no single other manufacturer that could get anywhere near that active product quantity. To get another viable competing standard would require several of the other big names to get together and agree on something. And you can just imagine how impossible that would be to pull off.

      Right now really is the best opportunity they have though, with Apple changing connectors. For awhile at least, they won't have the majority of products in circulation that use it. But the problem is they've caught the world off-guard, and I doubt anyone else has a different docking design in the pipe that does all the things Apple's dock connector does. By the time a big name like Nokia or Sony got their iron in the fire, Apple will already have a huge lead again and the race will basically be won about the time it starts.

      One angle they might try is something similar to the thunderbolt connector - a single connector that uses a single base io protocol to manage a variety of different types of data. (video and block transfer being thunderbolt's two main ones) They could just make a single small connector like USB (four wires or thereabouts) that sends power and data, with established uses for the data. (video, audio, control, block transfer, etc) But the disadvantage to that is it makes designing peripherals that can use it expensive due to the need for a control chip. (look at all the people whining about the price of the thunderbolt cables) Look at how easy it is to make a speaker or TV dock right now... just run wires from the dock connector to the AV lines out to the TV. Simple, cheap, and reliable.

      So neither option for an alternative really has much of a chance.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    163. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by neyla · · Score: 1

      The thing is, they -really- want analogue-out and inputs for audio, to make it 50 cents cheaper to make accessories. USB doesn't support that.

    164. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      If the bus is capable of supplying it. I.e. if you're implementing the battery charging spec on your bus (which it seems the MacBook does).

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    165. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Truedat · · Score: 1

      I love how some slash dotters are so on edge that they end up in comic book guy sarcastic battle mode when answering a simple comment. Anyway I didn't consider your scenario so I guess I do have somewhat of a simple gadget based life. Kids aren't generally allowed to take their gadgets out of the house except on special occasions, wife doesn't work etc. I'm kinda hoping in a few years time when kids are older that induction charging mats will be common place, but whatever, a single standard would be good.

    166. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Cerium · · Score: 1

      The bit about the extra data lines is true, but other manufactures (Samsung, for instance), use the microUSB form factor to create a port that not only contain the extra lines for audio/video out, but are also "backwards compatible" with standard microUSB cables/chargers.

    167. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by joocemann · · Score: 1

      Bluetooth OR usb.

      Dumb.

    168. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by jeremyp · · Score: 1

      PostScript was Adobe, not Apple.

      But it was Apple that put it into a product and marketed it successfully.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    169. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by jeremyp · · Score: 1

      So if you have an iPhone, you're expected to carry around this stupid dongle if you want to use anyone else's charger. Lovely. So much for their phone being so thin and efficiently-designed.

      No, you'd be expected to carry around your iPhone cable which has a normal USB plug on one end and can therefore plug into any charger with a USB socket, or a PC with a USB socket. This is no different from what you have to do now.

      The iPhone buyers are going to be pretty annoyed when they find out the hard way what it's like to go back to having a proprietary and non-ubiquitous connector with iPhone 5

      It won't be non ubiquitous for long.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    170. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by hobarrera · · Score: 1

      By 2009, most phones had microUSB, so it's been like three years now, he didn't exactly say "lots of year" :P

    171. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by n7ytd · · Score: 1

      Apple going through the trouble of abandoning their old proprietary connector and MAKING A NEW PROPRIETARY ONE instead of going to a standard one like every other phone has had for years sounds at least a bit nefarious to me.

      Is it possible that a standard micro or mini USB cable didn't do everything they wanted?

      Also, hardware developers sign an NDA and an agreement with Apple to be able to use Apple's logos and "Made for iPod/iPhone" marketing phrases. As part of that agreement you agree to acquire the hardware (connectors, shells, and authentication chips) only through Apple's authorized channels and that you will submit to certification tests. By doing this, they can accurately know how many products you are shipping to be sure you're not stiffing them on royalties and guarantee that your products meet a certain level of quality.

      Hypothetically it also allows Apple to see your products before they ship so they can deny you certification and then quash it as it might duplicate functionality with hardware they are interested in licensing themselves or to steal your product idea to later ship as their own. Hypothetically, of course. I've never seen this happen at a previous employer where I designed hardware to interface with iPods, as far as you know.

    172. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      No, not at all. The thing that made it successful was Adobe getting it supported by as many printers as possible - the only thing Apple can lay claim to is convincing Adobe to actually implement it as a general purpose printer language.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    173. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      No, not at all. The thing that made it successful was Adobe getting it supported by as many printers as possible - the only thing Apple can lay claim to is convincing Adobe to actually implement it as a general purpose printer language.

      So you're saying it wouldn't have existed in its present form without Apple...

      Also, the fact that Macs and Laserwriters featured cheap, plug-n-play local area networking (LocalTalk) before Ethernet became common/affordable (or easy to use) on PCs made it much easier to justify the cost of a laser printer by sharing it with a workgroup.

      That's the whole point - there's more to "Innovation" than just coming up with bright ideas. Apple has an amazing track record in taking ideas that were 'bubbling under' and turning them into market-changing products.

      I wonder what the history of personal computing would have been like if someone at Xerox management had been given a tap with the clue stick and thought "Hmm. We've got this amazing research lab who have invented the graphical user interface, the mouse, ethernet and the laser printer, plus we've got a customer base for our copiers that rivals IBM. I dunno... could we put that all together and make some sort of 'system for doing publishing on the top of your desk'(r) based on 'computers that one person can use'(tm)?'

      Hindsight is A wonderful thing. Still, If they kept the magic beans^H^H^H^H shares that Steve let them buy then they'll have made a few pennies.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    174. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      So you're saying it wouldn't have existed in its present form without Apple...

      No, not at all. Adobe invented it. Adobe implemented it as a printer language. Without Apple, we'd still have Postscript.

      Why is it so fucking hard for you fanboys to accept that Apple wasn't responsible for every innovation in computing ever?

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    175. Re:Standard connectors? LOL you wish! by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      No, not at all. Adobe invented it. Adobe implemented it as a printer language. Without Apple, we'd still have Postscript.

      ...but probably not as a general-purpose printer language because in your own words "the only thing Apple can lay claim to is convincing Adobe to actually implement it as a general purpose printer language".

      Apple took the laser printer, they took Postscript and they took local area networking and they put them together to produce a laser printer with Postscript and a plug-and-play, peer-to-peer LAN, so it could do advanced typesetting without the PC having to render and send huge bitmaps, and the cost of the expensive printer could be spread over a dozen users. If you don't think that counts as innovation then have it your way...

      Why is it so fucking hard for you fanboys to accept that Apple wasn't responsible for every innovation in computing ever?

      Why is it so hard for you to read and at least try to comprehend the argument - which is that a lot of Apple innovation consists of seeking out innovative ideas and turning them into successful products? If you want to argue that actually getting new ideas to market and promoting them doesn't count as part of "innovation" then please go ahead, but do try and state your case in words of more than 4 letters.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
  2. Just switch to USB by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Every other phone manufacturer seems okay with USB and a headphone socket. Same accessories, standard connector and charger.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    1. Re:Just switch to USB by GameboyRMH · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To Apple that isn't a feature, it's a bug.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    2. Re:Just switch to USB by Kenja · · Score: 5, Insightful

      USB lacks video & audio out as well as other feature connectors. So its one custom connector, or several standard ones. Apple wants fewer connectors, so a custom one is used. Not a big deal really.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    3. Re:Just switch to USB by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1, Funny

      I know having to use both MicroUSB and 3.5mm jacks on my N900 has been an absolute nightmare. If only it had some stupid-ass proprietary connector instead to save me from the horrors of occasionally plugging in a second cable.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    4. Re:Just switch to USB by kidgenius · · Score: 1

      It does? I guess I need to throw away my MHL adapter that I've been using to transmit video over the USB port, since you say it can't work.

    5. Re:Just switch to USB by milbournosphere · · Score: 1

      My understanding is that in Europe, every phone manufacturer either has to build their phone to use Micro-USB as a charging standard, or provide an adapter at no charge. If this is the case, why don't they just save everybody the headache and move to the now-rampant standard? The proposal for this came out in 2009 IIRC, so it's not like this was just sprung on them...

    6. Re:Just switch to USB by djh101010 · · Score: 1

      The connector has more than just charging and USB data on it. Why should my phone be limited only to what can be done over USB?

    7. Re:Just switch to USB by aristotle-dude · · Score: 1

      Every other phone manufacturer seems okay with USB and a headphone socket. Same accessories, standard connector and charger.

      Right, they should then abandon their advantage that they have built up over years with dock connectors on alarm clocks, portable stereos and car connection kits?

      Wouldn't they have to replace the dock connector with two ports being an USB port and a mini HDMI port for video and audio? Even still, they would loose the serial interface for controlling/being controlled by accessories present in the dock connector.

      See below:
      http://irq5.wordpress.com/2012/06/25/the-apple-30-pin-dock-connector/

      The dock connector supplied not only USB data but by-directional control signals, audio and video.

      --
      Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
    8. Re:Just switch to USB by swillden · · Score: 1

      Now output VGA, RGB, S-Video, Component Video.

      Why? Have you ever actually hooked your iPhone to a component video input?

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    9. Re:Just switch to USB by jareth-0205 · · Score: 1

      So you were trying to prove his point by stating you needed an additional adapter to do what you wanted since the standard cable wouldn't?

      Um... you only need the adapter if you plug it into a TV that doesn't have it. Presumably a dock for a phone designed for the purpose would have the MHL built-in, in the same way that any current Apple dock has to have special stuff built in to deal with their proprietary protocols.

    10. Re:Just switch to USB by slimjim8094 · · Score: 1

      Yes, actually, and the rest. VGA for a projector, RCA composite (which is what I assume he meant) for an old TV, and component video for a new TV. I once borrowed an S-video one for an old-ish-but-newer TV, but I don't personally own it.

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
    11. Re:Just switch to USB by organgtool · · Score: 1

      USB lacks video & audio

      I must be missing something here. Can anyone explain to me how USB is not capable of sending audio or video data or how the Apple connector is somehow better at sending such data?

    12. Re:Just switch to USB by iluvcapra · · Score: 2

      iPad requires an active dongle to connect to an SD card: ridiculous! N900 requires an active dongle to connect to a TV: completely acceptable!*

      Macbook Air requires a dongle to use wired ethernet: bondage! Podunk Clock Radio Corp. has to use an integrated USB or BT chipset in order to get a line-level output: totally obvious!**

      I know it's not necessarily the same people complaining, but really.

      * Are we sure a phone's USB 2.0 can push an HD image at 30fps? Not just an H.264 stream, because we want to run games on it too.

      ** Using headphone lines for external devices is crappy engineering -- the impedance is low voltage and neither mic level nor line level, and the receiving device is dependent on the phone's volume setting.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    13. Re:Just switch to USB by imagined.by · · Score: 2

      One word: Accessoires.

    14. Re:Just switch to USB by imagined.by · · Score: 2

      Of course USB is "capable" of sending video and audio. But for manufacturers of accessoires, it is 100x easier to implement analog connections than figuring out some data protocols.

    15. Re:Just switch to USB by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      I did it with my iPad, but I hope you will consider that equivalent.

    16. Re:Just switch to USB by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      It's really sad that it's perfectly OK (in your book) to bash Apple for catering to what you think is a niche. Why the fuck does it bother you? Why is it asinine? It's obviously not by any objective measure. Apple devices sell. They sell so well that Apple Computer dropped the Computer from the company name.

      You sound like a whiny 5 year old who isn't getting his way.

    17. Re:Just switch to USB by Phreakiture · · Score: 1

      You could take a cue from SATA.

      SATA hard drives have two plugs on them, which are a standard distance from each other and in a standard position on the drive, enabling cartridge-like function for the drives.

      Suppose we took an iPod, put a micro-USB, a micro-HDMI and the headphone jack all on it, on the bottom, positioned in standardized places, and made that the docking standard?

      Of course, that would deny Apple the licensing fees and veto power for the accessory market, which is what I think this is really about.

      --
      www.wavefront-av.com
    18. Re:Just switch to USB by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      No. You're not intelligent enough to understand. Apparently.

      Hint: Just because it comes with a cable that can sync and charge over USB does not mean that the entire feature-set of the connector is in use or available.

    19. Re:Just switch to USB by Zcar · · Score: 1

      Accessories which would potentially be more expensive if it wasn't a matter of just tapping in to the video output pins of the connector but required decoding of a data stream of USB, thus requiring a USB implementation as well as hardware to decode the video, etc.

    20. Re:Just switch to USB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      iPad requires an active dongle to connect to an SD card: ridiculous! N900 requires an active dongle to connect to a TV: completely acceptable!*

      Nope, it's a passive cable. (I'd assumed the iPad SD dongle was also passive, and considering your ignorance, I've no great faith it is active.)

      ** Using headphone lines for external devices is crappy engineering -- the impedance is low voltage and neither mic level nor line level, and the receiving device is dependent on the phone's volume setting.

      "the impedance is low voltage" -- this statement makes no sense.
      "neither mic level nor line level" -- well, the audio lines aren't, sure. Unless you flip the bit to enable line level drive, in which case they are. If you mean the line that is used as both mic in and composite video out, talking about audio levels makes no sense when it's on.
      "receiving device is dependent on the phone's volume setting" -- well, the audio channels are, yes. That's what the phone's volume setting does -- controls the volume of the current output, whether it be audio jack (headphone mode), audio jack (TV mode), bluetooth (A2DP or HSP), builtin loudspeakers, or the earpiece. If you're implying it affects the video, less drugs please.

    21. Re:Just switch to USB by Darth+Snowshoe · · Score: 2

      Steve Jobs is making me do it!

      Steve, Steve, please stop! I don't want a new, smaller connector! AAAAAAAGGH!

      His new connector is going to only connect to my new phone Steve is making me buy!! And no one else's! And I can't stop him! He's already in my house! At my refridgerator, eating all the peanut butter!

      And on his new connector, there's a PRIME NUMBER of pins! NINETEEN! It's IIINDIIIIVIIIISSSSSIIIIIIIBLLLLLLLE!!

      His connector is going to read all my iTunes playlists and delete all the the old Yes! and make me listen to new Yes! And Night Ranger! And Starship! HE BUILT THIS CITY!!!

      His secret UN jackbooted thugs are going to come into my parents' basement, and make me give up all of my mini-USB! and my micro-USB! Even though they signed! They're watching me right now! They're listening, through the fillings in my teeth!

      Steve just won't quit!!!! BECAUSE now, he's a zombie CEO! Zombie!

      (I'm sorry, but I'm losing it. This is the dumbest thread ever on Slashdot. If you don't like the connectors, get a different phone. Or, you know, like the article says, get an adaptor.)

    22. Re:Just switch to USB by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Galaxy S3 does HDMI over the USB socket, as do many other phones.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    23. Re:Just switch to USB by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Apple apologists will mod me down but screw it. This is completely asinine. A very tiny minority of of the install base ever uses those features. Miniscule. Infinitesimal. The next thing to non-existent.

      A very tiny minority of iPod owners dock their device and send its output somewhere?

      Heh.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    24. Re:Just switch to USB by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      I have a cable that plugs from the iPhone to the HDMI port on my TV. I have another cable, it's similar, that does an RCA-like connection to the TV/stereo. The short version is your iDevices have extra output options that their cable has pinouts for.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    25. Re:Just switch to USB by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Nope, it's a passive cable.

      Passive and industry-standard.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    26. Re:Just switch to USB by PortHaven · · Score: 1

      You're thinking...

      And we don't allow that on this planet. Seriously, miniUSB+miniHDMI+phonejack. Standardization.

      ALL BAD BAD BAD....

      Next thing, you'll want all cars to have four wheels, and headlights.

    27. Re:Just switch to USB by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      USB may lack these features, but the connector that microUSB mandates does, indeed, support a standard that provides video and audio out. Even better it works in parallel with USB charging and data.

      That's how, for example, video works on the Galaxy Nexus.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    28. Re:Just switch to USB by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 1

      Doesn't mean you can't do it - you can get the whole internet, YouTube and all, over USB2, I did it for several years when we were short of ethernet ports on the house router and none of our desktops had wireless. No, it's not as quick, but it does just fine - never tried HD though.

      --
      Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
    29. Re:Just switch to USB by espiesp · · Score: 1

      Because the dock connector is capable of sending ANALOG signal. The MicroUSB spec does in fact allow for analog stereo audio, but not simultaneous charging which is pretty useless. No USB connector supports video.

      UNLESS you encode your audio/video at one end and then decode it at the other. Which is NOT what we are talking about here.

    30. Re:Just switch to USB by Life2Death · · Score: 1

      Bullshit, my HTC and other devices can output HDMI via USB you insensitive cod

    31. Re:Just switch to USB by Phreakiture · · Score: 1

      Nah, they don't all need four wheels. A few three and six wheel cars would be fine with me, especially if I could get one with six-wheel drive! That would be cool for visiting my in-laws who live on a dirt road that becomes a mud bog every spring!

      Now, round wheels . . . there's an idea for a standard!

      Going to serious, I am a sound engineer, and grateful for the fact that the pro audio has largely standardized on three connectors: 1/4", XLR and Speakon. No fuss, no muss, no BS. The consumer products industry could learn a lot from the pros.

      --
      www.wavefront-av.com
    32. Re:Just switch to USB by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      You sound like a whiny 5 year old who isn't getting his way.

      Says the guy wishing death on people who disagree with him.

      I'll reiterate my earlier post: it would be perfectly OK if Apple wants to invent a new, more capable connector for AV devices as an industry standard. It is unacceptable to patent it and make it completely proprietary to their own hardware. That's an attempt at lock-in and is anticompetitive. If their devices are so great they shouldn't *need* to resort to lock-in to keep people buying them.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    33. Re:Just switch to USB by PortHaven · · Score: 1

      Just feel bad for the idiots that attach a XLR to 1/4" adapter to a cable, then run the 1/4" into an AMP, and the XLR into their powered speakers...*sizzle*

    34. Re:Just switch to USB by ewok85 · · Score: 1

      The rumor was that they would make a physically and electrically compatible micro-usb socket, and make a new "special" plug which still enabled all the extra options if you wanted.

  3. Yeah, but... by Antipater · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's not about how big the connector is. It's how you use it!

    --
    Everything is better with chainsaws.
  4. Tim Cook Must Be Swimming A Lot! by RapidEye · · Score: 1

    7" iPad and now a 19 pin connector - Tim must be doing a LOT of swimming to get that kind of apple shrinkage!

    --
    "Murderer? Well, that's a harsh word. I prefer to think of myself as a Mortality Technician."
  5. We have nothing but "reports" and a back piece. by aristotle-dude · · Score: 1

    That back piece could be a decoy to weed out leakers at Apple or it could even be a part for chinese iPhone clone. The appearance of the back plate does not look consistent with previous iDevices put out by Apple before. The speaker/microphone grills do not match in size with larger holes than I would expect and there is no benefit to having the headphone jack at the bottom if it means sacrificing symmetry and reducing the docking port. Also, the back panel having an "Apple" logo means nothing. There have been clone phone made in china before with an Apple logo and iPhone moniker. Also, the font kerning a family is wrong for "iPhone" and there are no regulatory symbols or text such as "Made in China, Designed in California".

    Everything about the supposed leaked case scream "clone" to me. There were iPhone 4 "clones" released in China after the prototype was "lost" in a bar so it is entirely possible that someone leaked information about the dimensions of the new iPhone 5 to a cloner.

    Apple would be giving up a vast eco-system of dock connectors on alarm clocks in homes and hotels.

    --
    Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
  6. Don't they need a micro USB connector by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    to comply with EU standards for phones?

  7. There definitely might be an adapter... by itsdapead · · Score: 1

    ...and before we start frothing at the mouth over all the iPad-enabled equipment destined for landfill, there are equally credible rumors that Apple will be making an adapter.

    As for why - well, they've managed to stick to the same physical connector for 10 years, which is pretty good going. Maybe it wasn't possible to add USB3 in a way that didn't break compatibility with existing docks. They probably don't need composite/component analog video now, either.

    --
    In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    1. Re:There definitely might be an adapter... by Rik+Sweeney · · Score: 2

      there are equally credible rumors [macrumors.com] that Apple will be making an adapter.

      To be sold separately.

    2. Re:There definitely might be an adapter... by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      To be sold separately.

      Quite possibly - but nobody knows yet.

      Heck, Apple are now giving you a free magsafe-to-magsafe2 adapter if you buy a $1000 display and a $3000 laptop from them - if they're capable of that sort of eye-watering generosity then the sky's the limit...

      (Flap, Oink!)

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
  8. Re:Thank God! by vlm · · Score: 1

    Now maybe one of those thousands of companies will realize the the smart move would be a USB plug for charging combined with a bluetooth system for transmitting the music. I can't seem to find anything good for my Android phone.

    You've just described the thing in my car. As for "good", well define good. It does work... If you go to amazon.com and search for "Wagan 5 Amp AC to 12V DC Power Adapter" you'll see an $18 way to run my car's adapter thingy indoors. The absolute cheapest similar device is $12 made by Bestek. I can personally endorse the thingy in my car WRT to charging ability and sound quality being "good enough", but at home I have an elaborate 12 volt ham radio related distribution system, so I have no personal experience with $18 or $12 supplies.

    Personally I like your idea but would much rather prefer a wireless charger solution. So drop the phone on the mat and it charges and the speakers also connect. This would also be nice in the car instead of having to plug in.

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  9. Apple Tax by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

    Making not-needed changes that end-up costing the loyal Apple user more money. BTW when the iPhone 5 comes-out, I hope they reduce the price on the older 4 model. I want to buy one but $550 is a steep price.

    --
    My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    1. Re:Apple Tax by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Why is it "not needed"?

      The current connector is 10 years old and contains several useless pins - like the firewire data and power connectors. With a change in the connector (and adding an adapter for the 30 pin ports and cables) they can add new things like USB3 that customers might actually want, instead of being stuck with a port that supports a data protocol that no iOS device has supported in years.

    2. Re:Apple Tax by Haxagon · · Score: 1

      Just be sure you jailbreak it before Apple sends out an update to make it slower.

  10. The old connector isn't just for pins... by mlts · · Score: 2

    One thing about the current connector Apple uses is that it doesn't just provide pins, it provides a structural element, allowing devices to plug in standing up. Without this, it will be a pain at least for a docking station to be built, especially ones that are engineered to support iPhones, iPods, and iPads, all of differing widths, heights, and thicknesses, but all sporting the same connector.

    I hope this isn't the case, since it means that the whole accessory market, from the docking station that is a part of a new motorhome to the one that is built into a home theater system, to the dock that is part of a construction grade battery charger are all useless.

    1. Re:The old connector isn't just for pins... by John+Napkintosh · · Score: 1

      For the two docks I own, the design of the dock (i.e.: the phone resting in a form-fitting recessed "receptacle") accomplishes that task. Devices which rely on the data connector for structural support are a bad idea. Every time it wiggles while docked, it is weakening the dock's connector as well as potentially damaging the data connector on the phone.

      --

      Long signatures suck.
    2. Re:The old connector isn't just for pins... by DJCouchyCouch · · Score: 1

      I'm sure Apple's thought of how the new connector will work for docks. And there will probably be adapters.

    3. Re:The old connector isn't just for pins... by Daas · · Score: 1

      I was thinking along those lines. You may hate the Apple connector all you want, but it provides 1 thing that no other USB connectors can : a docking capability. You can PLUG any Android device in a standard micro or mini-usb cable, put you can't dock it easily. On the other hand, the 30 pin connector in a cradle is elegant, convenient and you have the advantage of never having to use a cable, just dock and forget.

      Will this new 19 pin connector allow for the same ease of use? No idea. But it'd be stupid to use a connector that, as parent said, isn't a structural element.

    4. Re:The old connector isn't just for pins... by Urza9814 · · Score: 1

      Archos devices have both standard connectors and support docking...

    5. Re:The old connector isn't just for pins... by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      No, this is apple. You'll be expected to buy all new accessories. Just ask any of the video-out products - Apple tends to change the requirements to make each iteration incompatible with the (cracked one) 1-2 generations old.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  11. That's bullshit by fluffythedestroyer · · Score: 1

    On the upside, a smaller connector will allow for more compact product designs.

    The only thing that's compact is the connector and nothing else. The product shape, design and size will depend on its developer, creator, inventor..whatever. It's only an excuse to release a so called "new" product (iphone5) that will make you spend more money on gadgets and accessories. When they look at their stats, I'm pretty sure someone at apple decided to accept this change because lots of people bought iphone 4 accessories and he's thinking if people buy so many gadgets, they will surely buy lots of gadgets on the iphone5 even if we change the connector size.

    1. Re:That's bullshit by fluffythedestroyer · · Score: 2

      Forgot to tel but:

      In 2011 the global market for mobile phone accessories will rake in an estimated $34 billion in revenue. Apple-approved products—accessories made by Apple or branded by Apple—make up about $2 to $3 billion of that.

      from fiscal times

      They can't ignore that.

  12. Thinner! by SuricouRaven · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why this relentless drive for thinness at Apple? They switched to displayport because VGA/DVI ports were too thick, and now they dropped ethernet from their new retina laptops because the RJ45 connector is too thick. Every time Apple bring out a new iThing, I see the fanboys celebrate how this is the slimmest iThing yet - another 0.25mm shaved from the thickness! Really, once a phone reaches the 'fits in pocket' size, what advantage could be gained for the user in making it slimmer? It's just became some sort of Apple dogma that thinner is better and thinnest is best.

    1. Re:Thinner! by fluffythedestroyer · · Score: 1

      if they use standards they wont make money since the product can be used anywhere. thats the point of standards. If they use another format, Apple is forcing you to buy they're products. More money to them than someone else. Apple is creating an artificial need to it's consumer like Bill Gates did with the DOS back in the days...simple math if you ask me.

    2. Re:Thinner! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why this relentless drive for thinness at Apple? They switched to displayport because VGA/DVI ports were too thick, and now they dropped ethernet from their new retina laptops because the RJ45 connector is too thick. Every time Apple bring out a new iThing, I see the fanboys celebrate how this is the slimmest iThing yet - another 0.25mm shaved from the thickness! Really, once a phone reaches the 'fits in pocket' size, what advantage could be gained for the user in making it slimmer? It's just became some sort of Apple dogma that thinner is better and thinnest is best.

      It's a strategy that has sold products in the past. Apple seems oddly good at selling

      Slashdot laughs at the "fanboys." Apple laughs all the way to the bank.

    3. Re:Thinner! by hahn · · Score: 2

      As the saying goes, "You can never be too rich or too thin."

      --
      "The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well."
    4. Re:Thinner! by tooyoung · · Score: 2

      My wife has an iPod touch, which looks just like the early model iPhone, but it is much thinner. I have to say, I'd love having a phone exactly like that. Not because I'm a drooling fanboy who needs to have the latest shiny, thin, fancy thing, but because it is just a very nice form factor. Is that so unreasonable?

    5. Re:Thinner! by SolemnLord · · Score: 2

      It's just became some sort of Apple dogma that thinner is better and thinnest is best.

      And yet the latest iPad is actually thicker than the iPad 2, but I doubt you'd find anyone in Cupertino calling the iPad 2 "the best".

      As the Gizmodo article pointed out, the smaller connector gives Apple the opportunity to either add more internal space to the currently-existing iPhone footprint, or shrink the device down further. Both of those are beneficial to the device's design (especially since the next iPhone will probably have LTE, and will need all the battery it can get). And when all other things are equal, in mobile computing smaller and lighter is straight-up better. It's the whole point of mobile. "Fits in pocket" is nice, but "fits well in pocket" is even better. "Can be easily fished out of the pocket when you really need it but you're sitting down and your jean pockets are small in the first place" is best.

      Thinner also means "dissipates heat easier", which matters when you cram your electronics as tightly together as you can, which is what Apple does. (If I'm wrong on this, feel free to correct me. I'm no materials engineer)

      Addendum:

      They switched to displayport because VGA/DVI ports were too thick,

      And ugly. They were big and ugly. And obsolete (VGA, anyway). So they were big and ugly and obsolete. Pretty good reason to ditch something, if you ask me.

    6. Re:Thinner! by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Once we get a device thinner than "fits in a pocket" size we get to where we can fit *TWO* in a pocket!

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  13. Yeah... everyone's a critic by mitzampt · · Score: 1

    But how many people would complain about switching to micro-USB with or without the adapters (obviously they'd still complain if they don't provide the adapters).
    How much a better place this world would be?

    --
    uhm...
  14. 11 pins, free of charge by John+Napkintosh · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Why were they using 30 when they only needed 19? Is some functionality going to be lost in the new connector? Are they serializing some functions that used to be parallel over the cable? Did the originally plan for some functionality they never got around to adding? Maybe just giving themselves the opportunity to remove them later and and create a market for adapters?

    --

    Long signatures suck.
    1. Re:11 pins, free of charge by HarrySquatter · · Score: 2

      It's to remove pins that are no longer used.

    2. Re:11 pins, free of charge by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      Why were they using 30 when they only needed 19? Is some functionality going to be lost in the new connector? Are they serializing some functions that used to be parallel over the cable? Did the originally plan for some functionality they never got around to adding? Maybe just giving themselves the opportunity to remove them later and and create a market for adapters?

      Remember, the early ipods were planned to be usb or firewire connected through the same 30 pin connector. Also, the other pins were useable by third party manufactures to control features in the iPod. Later, Apple dropped many of those functions from the pins, but kept the same connector for backwards compatibility.

    3. Re:11 pins, free of charge by silverhalide · · Score: 2

      Look at the pinout:
      http://pinouts.ru/PortableDevices/ipod_pinout.shtml

      I'm going to guess with a high confidence that they are losing analog video pins (3), Firewire pins (6, including 12V power pins), and probably consolidating some of the ground and reserved pins.

      Another connector redesign issue may be to address some shielding issues - as they move to high frequency HDMI video connections, the original connector may have had some challenges there.

    4. Re:11 pins, free of charge by nojayuk · · Score: 1

      The 30-pin docking connector and its dock "mate" in iPhones, iTouches etc. are standard off-the-shelf components, not built specifically for Apple in the first place. My old PDA (a Fujitsu Pocket Loox) has the same connector pair in its body and dock.

      The pinout for the Loox is radically different to the Apple pinout and any attempt to plug my PDA into an Apple dock would be useless or at worst I would end up destroying something. I tracked down a pinout diagram so I could hack a spare Ebay cable to provide USB host signalling for my PDA; the Loox doesn't use all 30 pins either.

  15. Where is the teardrop iPhone that Reuters said was by aristotle-dude · · Score: 1

    Didn't all of the major news outlets believe that a teardrop LTE iPhone 5 was coming out last year? Did you all forget that?

    Do you really believe Apple is going to abandon their ecosystem of dock connector accessories? Really? These reporters need to go back to school because they have become as bad as "bloggers" believing rumours and random parts that could be fake or part of a chinese knockoff designed based on the rumours about a taller iPhone.

    --
    Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
  16. Secret agenda perhaps by ravenswood1000 · · Score: 2

    Watch them stop manufacturing the current connector as a way to make us all "upgrade".

    1. Re:Secret agenda perhaps by fluffythedestroyer · · Score: 1

      It's not a secret agenda, you just gotta know how to make money in the US. Apple got that right.

  17. mini thunderbolt? by demonbug · · Score: 1

    Is it possible that this is a miniaturized Thunderbolt? Seems like that would offer all of the connectivity they want, although the pin count is off (by one). Just seems strange (although all-too Apple-like) to invent yet another connector that is different from everything else they use.

    1. Re:mini thunderbolt? by fluffythedestroyer · · Score: 1

      it's not strange, its called "how to make people spend more money on our products lesson 101"

  18. Hmm... Won't this be iPhone 6? by eegad · · Score: 1

    iPhone
    iPhone 3G
    iPhone 3GS
    iPhone 4
    iPhone 4S ...

    1. Re:Hmm... Won't this be iPhone 6? by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      Your own list proves that your logic induction is anything but logical.

      The number obviously is not used to count the generation or releases, or there wouldn't be 2 3's and 4's and no 2.

    2. Re:Hmm... Won't this be iPhone 6? by th1nk · · Score: 1

      No, he's right.

      3G referred to the network. 3GS was an update to the 3G. 4 is named by the generation. 4S is an update to the 4 (but is the 5th iPhone).

      There is no way they would now release "iPhone 5", especially to coincide with the release of iOS 6.

  19. Re:I'm sorry, but this post *is* obligatory by chispito · · Score: 1

    It's funny, but not analogous. They aren't trying to make a new universal connector and get everyone onboard. Apple is (reportedly) trying to make a new proprietary connector for i-products only.

    --
    The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
  20. Why have any connectors? by Animats · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Connectors are obsolete on a device that has at least three radios in it. Charging should be inductive, video should be WiFi, and audio should be Bluetooth. Then the thing would be hole-free and could be made waterproof.

    Now this is what Apple should be shooting for in ruggedization.

    1. Re:Why have any connectors? by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      Charging should be inductive, video should be WiFi, and audio should be Bluetooth. Then the thing would be hole-free and could be made waterproof.

      Ha-ha.

      I can barely even get compressed HD video to my laptop from my file server over wi-fi, it's sure as hell not going to be able to send uncompressed HD video to a TV over the same connection. And you really, really, don't want to push video and audio over separate interfaces with all the delights of properly synchronising them at the other end.

    2. Re:Why have any connectors? by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      Connectors are obsolete on a device that has at least three radios in it. Charging should be inductive, video should be WiFi, and audio should be Bluetooth. Then the thing would be hole-free and could be made waterproof.

      Now
      this is what Apple should be shooting for in ruggedization.

      Those capacitive touch screens don't work too well when under water or even just wet.

    3. Re:Why have any connectors? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that sounds like a fantastic idea. Then the FM transmitter to get audio from your phone to your car will cost $100 instead of $5 because it will need a bluetooth radio in it instead of a simple physical connector.

    4. Re:Why have any connectors? by Inda · · Score: 1

      A little tame sir. Something like this maybe?

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
  21. Re:copycat irony by s.o.terica · · Score: 1

    blatantly copies the Nexus S 4G earphone location

    You mean the iPod nano headphone jack location from 2005 and iPod touch headphone jack location from 2007?

  22. Re:copycat irony by aristotle-dude · · Score: 1

    Ironic how apple is competing through litigation arguing patent infringement and then blatantly copies the Nexus S 4G earphone location (http://forums.androidcentral.com/google-galaxy-nexus/143389-headset-jack-bottom-yea-nay.html)

    Do you really believe this is a real leaked part? It is more likely a chinese knock off based on "rumours" about a taller iPhone. The clones have their jack at the bottom and a smaller "dock" port like this one.

    Here is an example of a clone:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEhowtIJQS8

    And another one:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-4mYehiNpI

    --
    Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
  23. the lack of a "standard" by joneil · · Score: 1

    A few years ago a man I was talking to a man who's house along with the rest of his town was flooded. He said in his case he thought got off lucky because the water only came 2 to 2.5 feet above floor level

      But it turned out to be a huge issue because while the water wasn't high enough to destroy his small TV, his router, his printer, etc, etc, the water did destroy all the small adapters, transformers, etc, etc, he had plugged in. He told me it was a nightmare to try and replace individual transformer, usb connectors, etc, etc, because everybody was not only a bit different, but because inside the same company if your device was over 2 years old, standards had change or maybe they didn't even make or have for sale an older transformer with the old voltage & amperage specs.

          Or sometimes he would run into the "problem" of where "sure we can get it, but it will take two months, and you can just buy a whole new thing-ama-jig for just $10 more." This in turn led to arguements with the insurance company, and so forth. He told me a new charger for his cell phone was the worst "offender" He just ended up with a new cell phone.

          I remember him very clearing saying "why not just a universal standard for everything? One cable from your computer for everything and one transformer for everything?" He figured if there was ever a floor like that again, "everything is going to fall into the water by accident".

          This whole idea of so many different proprietary connectors strikes me as nothing more than a fancy, expanded take on those old Depression era make work projects where men would dig ditches one day and then fill them in the next day. In the short term it makes some people money, but in a long term, on a planet with limited resources, overall a terrible waste.

    1. Re:the lack of a "standard" by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      If my house "only" flooded with two to three feet of water, the least of my concern would be having to replace my router etc, because the power brick got bricked. I'd be much more worried with the damage to the house wiring, insulation, drywall, flooring, etc.

      Yes, standard power supplies would be nice, but I don't think I would use flood recovery as a reason for them.

  24. Re:No big deal by mr1911 · · Score: 1

    Considering that 99.9% of people that "complain" about Apple products buy at least one anyway, I doubt Apple gives much of a shit about the concerns expressed here.

    --
    This post comes with a double-your-money-back guarantee!
    Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
  25. Real purpose by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

    The real purpose of the change is not to make it so the ear phone can be smaller. The real purpose is that with the change, all of your add-ons that used the old connector will need to be replaced instead of moved to your next device and if there is a new add-on you really want, you'll need to buy a new idevice because the connector changed. Effectively when the new dock is made standard all existing devices will become obsolete.

    It's not about better design, etc. It is about generating increases in revenues.

    1. Re:Real purpose by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Or you'll just use the adapter that the same sources are reporting is also in production alongside the new port.

      Just like the Magsafe 2 > Magsafe adapter for $10 that launched alongside the new Magsafe port on the retina Macbook Pro and the new Air.

      It's not about "increasing revenues", it's about the first thing you said - "better design etc" since they can get rid of several pins that they don't use any more (like firewire data and power, among others).

      Not everything is an evil conspiracy to fleece people.

  26. Propriatary connectors are proprietary by Shompol · · Score: 3, Insightful
    From TFA:

    New standards are always rough on the early adopter

    Standards? What standards? Maybe if you stuck to the standards this would not have happened to you.

    All electronics stores everywhere overstocked on Apple peripherals to the point that speakers connecting to non-Apple device are hard to come by. This is the payback time! My turn to walk with a gleeful grin, as millions $ worth of equipment finds its way to the dumpsters worldwide.

    1. Re:Propriatary connectors are proprietary by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      There is no standard for a connector that provides digital and analog video and audio, control signals and USB. There certainly wasn't any such thing when Apple started to use it.

      And I hate to break it to you (not really), but if the rumor is true, those stores are just going to overstock on new Apple-compatible accessories. You're still going to be out in the cold.

  27. Dock connector needs to go...but headphone jack? by swb · · Score: 1

    ...on the bottom? That really doesn't make much sense, unless part of the connector shrink is removing the line level output from the connector and moving it to the headphone jack. But this would require one of those bizarre connectors like the original iPods had for wired remote functions, and that doesn't seem Apple like.

    The dock connector needs to be redesigned, although one of the iDevice's strengths has been a fairly long run with a common connector.

  28. Apple v. Sanho by tepples · · Score: 1

    Do we know there won't be any adapters available?

    Apple has in the past sued companies producing products with connectors that mate with its own devices. Even cutting off the end of an authentic Apple power supply and soldering it onto an external battery has triggered a lawsuit.

    1. Re:Apple v. Sanho by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Strange then, because there are a LOT of dock connector compatible devices that are not from Apple....

      Perhaps the few cases of lawsuits had special extenuating circumstances?

    2. Re:Apple v. Sanho by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      that Philips clock/radio iPod player that I have must have been smuggled into the country.

  29. 1080i/p is three times USB 2.0 throughput by tepples · · Score: 1

    Can anyone explain to me how USB is not capable of sending audio or video data

    Tunneling 1080p HDMI over USB is impossible. 1920x1080 pixels * 24 bits per pixel * 30 frames per second = 1.5 Gbps, which is over three times the theoretical throughput of USB 2.0. What compression were you thinking of?

    1. Re:1080i/p is three times USB 2.0 throughput by kidgenius · · Score: 1

      MHL can do 1080p. It's not a "standard" USB2.0 port. It is a compatible port, but has higher bandwidth capabilities for video.

    2. Re:1080i/p is three times USB 2.0 throughput by MaWeiTao · · Score: 1

      You're overlooking USB 3.0, capable of up to 5Gbps.

  30. HDMI by tepples · · Score: 1

    You know where the other end of my iPhone's connector cable goes to? My PC's USB port, or the USB port of the wall charger.

    You know where the other end of cables other than yours go to? HDMI ports.

  31. Thunderbolt by DevilM · · Score: 1

    It would be nice if they made it a Thunderbolt port.

    1. Re:Thunderbolt by TheSkepticalOptimist · · Score: 1

      Why? What would the benefit be in an ultra fast speed port on a mobile device?

      A lot of people scream for USB ports and stuff on tablets and phones, but why? The whole point of these things is to be mobile, not tied down married to a bunch of dangling attachments. Why do I want to connect my phone to a terrabyte server when there are a SLEW of wireless data streaming options available? Why do I need to connect to a printer by a wire when wireless solutions have existed for 10 years. Whats the point of "the cloud" if you are still tied to a PC/Mac for data transfer and updates.

      A thunderbolt port would be about the most useless thing to add to a "modern" phone.

      --
      I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
  32. Re:Just More Gizmodo Apple Worship by jo_ham · · Score: 1

    I'm sorry, Gizmodo loving Apple?! What world do you live in?

    Or has the whole "Apple are snubbing us because we didn't get free press passes to WWDC after we tried to ransom their stolen iPhone prototype" thing been swept under the rug?

  33. this is funny by zome · · Score: 1

    People who bash the new iphone do not own iphone and are not generally effected by it.
    People who defend the iphone are the one who will have to pay for new accessories that they already have when they buy the new iphone.
    man, I will have to find the way to draw this stuff and post on 9gag or something.

  34. Guys... did you hear? by nighthawk243 · · Score: 1

    Did you hear that Pope John Paul II just died?

    Psst... old news

  35. So why not micro-USB? by roc97007 · · Score: 1

    Of course (slaps head) because that would be... bad... for, I dunno, some reason.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    1. Re:So why not micro-USB? by joh · · Score: 1

      One of these reasons would be that a micro-USB plug is in no way mechanically able to hold a docked device reliably. It also offers just data and power, no video, no audio.

      But I totally agree that Apple moving from one proprietary but well supported connector to another proprietary but not yet supported connector seems to overstretch it a bit.

      I really would like some sane standard for docking connectors (and I don't think micro-USB works here at all). But nobody seems to care very much, except Apple (and of course Apple has its very own reasons to do that, no doubt).

    2. Re:So why not micro-USB? by kimvette · · Score: 1

      No line-level audio, no HDMI, no composite video, and so on. In case you missed it, Apple has a cult following in AV.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    3. Re:So why not micro-USB? by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      No line-level audio, no HDMI, no composite video, and so on. In case you missed it, Apple has a cult following in AV.

      Dedicated lines for audio and video -- how quaint.

      Over in not-Apple-land, we've been doing video and audio digitally over USB for quite awhile. And with USB 3.0, at peak speeds of 5 GB/sec, there's really little reason not to.

      For really REALLY low end peripherals, like the aftermarket ipod boom boxes you buy at Big Lots, (well, maybe not you, but the people who buy anything form Big Lots) from TFA, the audio connector will be on the bottom, next to the data connector, which is (ostensibly) why they redesigned the connector in the first place. So, if you really did want to go the analog cheap route, there is still a way to do it without wasting lines in the data connector on dedicated analog audio.

      And really, shouldn't cult AV followers be all digital... by now? I mean, geeze. 2003 is calling -- they want their monster cables back.

      And... ok ok ok.... you want a dedicated audio-video connector. There is this thing, it's called a STANDARD, for micro-HDMI. My phone, which was built in 2010, has one next to the micro USB which handles charging and data. The docking station has two connectors right next to each other. The phone snaps in, and connects HDMI to the TV and USB to the media center. (Which isn't totally necessary because the media center can play media directly off the phone over USB but never mind.) This also means that I can use conventional, buy-anywhere cables for data, charging, and HDMI a/v.

      But of course, this would mean the cable wouldn't be white and trendy.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    4. Re:So why not micro-USB? by kimvette · · Score: 1

      > Over in not-Apple-land, we've been doing video and audio digitally over USB for quite awhile. And with USB 3.0, at peak speeds of 5 GB/sec, there's really little reason not to.

      Really?

      * Connecting to a hotel television room to play Yo Gabba Gabba for your toddler
      * Connecting to an AV receiver using impedance-matched line level audio rather than the headphone output
      * Convenience for a dock, where the audio cables (to your receiver, or desktop speakers, etc) can be connected to the dock, enabling the single connection to do everything

      As far as mini-hdmi goes, what's next? Yet another additional proprietary port for analog AV? No, the multi-pin port with an adapter is just fine, otherwise, you're going to bulk up and clutter the phone. The reason Apple made the decision they did was it enables integration with a wide variety of applications without bulking up or cluttering the phone.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  36. Re:copycat irony by zoloto · · Score: 1

    apparently some people just don't know their tech history

  37. I Don't Buy Apple Products by WebSorcerer · · Score: 1

    In ~1988 I purchased my first Desktop PC, an Apple. I really liked it. In 1991, when the Power PC came out, I purchased one. NONE of the peripherals for my previous computer (except the keyboard IIRC) were compatible because the connectors were changed.

    I vowed, then and there, that I would never buy an Apple product again. I have never regretted it.

  38. MicroUSB-HDMI by phorm · · Score: 1

    Lots of existing phones manage to use the microUSB ports to do HDMI video with the appropriate adaptor.

  39. Been saying it for 6 months, duh. by TheSkepticalOptimist · · Score: 1

    Seriously, the only thing worse then a constant barrage of Apple iPhone speculation and rumors is REPETITIVE Apple iPhone speculation and rumors.

    iPhone 5 is the worst kept secret in the industry these days. Apple has forgotten how to write (or enforce) an NDA, and they wonder why every competitor copies their product before its even released.

    --
    I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
  40. Re:Dock connector needs to go...but headphone jack by brentrad · · Score: 1

    My Samsung Galaxy Nexus has both the micro-USB and headphone ports on the bottom next to each other, and it actually makes a whole lot of sense when you actually use it for a while.

    It's great for when you mount your phone in a dash mount in your car. The micro-USB for power and headphone jack for plugging into the line-in in my car stereo drop right out the bottom so they fit nice and securely, instead of like in some phones where the USB port is in the side so fits less securely (and gets in the way of the dash mount.)

    When you're carrying it around in your pocket with headphones attached, you just slip it into your pocket upside-down with the back of the phone facing outwards. When you need to switch audio tracks, it's one smooth motion to grab the phone with your whole hand cupping the back, pull the phone out and turn your hand 180 degrees to flip it upright while still holding the phone securely in your hand. You don't have to turn it around in your hand to have the screen right-side-up, or pull out the phone with two fingers and hope you don't accidentally tap something on the touchscreen. Kinda hard to visualize unless you actually try it, but now that I have a phone with headphone on the bottom I like it a lot, and hope my next phone has the same port layout.

  41. Re:Where is the teardrop iPhone that Reuters said by MaWeiTao · · Score: 1

    It wouldn't be the first time Apple has pulled a stunt like this.

  42. Concurrent use? by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

    I don't have an iPhone, so really don't know if this would be an issue, but with this new configuration, how would one connect their headphones while the phone is docked?

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  43. Haters gonna hate by The+Nipponese · · Score: 1

    The public's want for Apple products has almost superseded their need for Microsoft products, what else is it going to take for Apple go their their props?? All that money wasn't made by suing people, it was earned with great product vision, marketing and execution, so shut the fuck up and create your own "Apple" if you think their so stupid and unethical.

  44. Your clock/radio iPod player... by rnturn · · Score: 1

    ...will soon be obsolete. Once you need to buy a new iPod or iPhone, it won't work with your existing clock/radio and you'll have to replace it. I'm sure Apple feels your pain when you have to throw out a perfectly functional piece of electronic equipment that is no longer usable with newer Apple products. But don't worry... there's plenty of room in the local landfill for your old clock/radio. I'm betting on this move to a smaller connector was at the request of the Apple aftermarket vendors who've had a hard time selling more of the iPod/iPhone clock/radio units, external speakers, etc. and who know that the Apple buying suckers will happily toss out their old-but-still-working hardware and replace it with something new but doesn't offer any advantages over the previous unit other than the being compatible with Apple's new connector. Not just stupid but f'ing stupid.

    Apple's arrogance is what keeps me from owning anything with their logo on it. (Disclaimer: I have an old iPod nano that the CIO gave to everyone who completed a large project some years ago. Pity I need iTunes to use the damned thing and the only computer that'll run iTunes is used exclusively for work and I cannot install non-work software on it. Luckily, I already had a Cowon player that works perfectly well with all of the Linux systems at home.)

    From the Gizmodo article:

    ``it's hard to fault a company for chasing after a newer and potentially better technology for our benefit''

    And the benefit of this new/smaller connector for the end user is what? I can't recall the last time I read a more useless piece of Apple apologist drivel.

    --
    CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
    1. Re:Your clock/radio iPod player... by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      I have a 4S, so I won't be buying a new phone anytime soon. My last phone lasted me several years.

      If I ever did get an iPhone >= 5, I'd just buy the adapter.

  45. You know it. by reluctantjoiner · · Score: 1

    All my perfectly functioning peripherals are soooo 2010. And a new dock!

    What's that, I need a new Mac as well? Brilliant. It's already more than two years old. Apparently, "that's like, so old, Grandpa".

  46. Re:copycat irony by scot4875 · · Score: 1

    You mean the iPod nano headphone jack location from 2005 and iPod touch headphone jack location from 2007?

    Yeah, but this is on a *smartphone*.

    Think about it. You'll get it if you're not a fanboi.

    --Jeremy

    --
    Jesus was a liberal
  47. Freeing up more internal space for circuitry? by MtViewGuy · · Score: 1

    I think there may be still another reason for the new 19-pin dock: because it's physically smaller, that frees up space inside the iPhone case for more circuitry--which means we could get a bigger battery, 3GPP LTE support, NFC circuitry/antenna, and other new features.

  48. MHL by DrYak · · Score: 1

    Yeah, because there is absolutely no way you can do audio or video over USB.

    Even more so given MHL - full digital multimedia path carried over the same connector as USB (and thus could be dual-purpose port like the DisplayPort+ connector also able to fucntion as HDML/DVI connectors).

    The solution is here. The solution is already used by other manufacturers.
    But no Apple had to go their own route.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  49. Already done by DrYak · · Score: 1

    It also contains {...} component and s-video

    Yup. On a device manufactured in 2012. That's something that is really deeply needed as a first class citizen on the device.
    Common. Appart from earphones, 99% of the devices which will be linked to a smartphone will probably be digital.

    If you have legacy device which only accept analog signal, I think it can be acceptable that in 2012, you're required to buy a separate device.
    (Either a digital-to-analog converter for the HDMI or MHL output. Or a video output chip on the OTG MicroUSB - like a DisplayLink).

    USB is a step backwards. A modern replacement for the dock should ideally contain display port or HDMI video

    Also known as MHL
    It carry a high def digital media channel (so it's functionnaly equivalent to HDMI) and current implementation tend to use the same physical connector as microUSB so you can dual-purpose the connector.

    You could also throw a microHDMI connector for compatibility with older TV which have pure HDMI connector instead of dual puprose HDMI/MHL.

    And that's negleticting the fact that with just 1 chip you could carry digital audio over USB (the smartphone will just see it as a USB-Audio device connected to the OTG microUSB).

    and a switchable line out / S/PDIF or similar.

    Dual purpose digital/analog connector are as old as the Minidisk: Normal 3mm mini jack. Electrical connector on the sides for analog. Red-LED or photoreceptor at the bottom for digital output or input.
    - plug in an electrical jack: you get an analog Mic input (or an earphone output, depending on port)
    - plug in an optical jack: you get digital input (or digital output, depending on port)
    (and that's just for the most obvious portable solution. Virtually any modern PC motherboard can switch its jack between analog and electric-digital on the go, and several 3rd-party sound cards have dual analog-RCA optical-minijack or even more crazy multi connectors)

    So in short, by using a dual microUSB/MHL port, a micro HDMI port and a mini-jack (which is, by the way, what most *OTHER* high-end smart phone do) you can do everything that apple does, without even needing extra chips in docks.
    Add-in a LED at the bottom of the mini-jack and you even get optical out.

    The only problem I see is that currently the other manufacturer haven't agreed on a standard *placement* of the connector. (It's often mini-jack at the top and USB/MHL and HDMI on either side).
    The ideal would be putting micro USB/MHL, mini jack and micro HDMI, in that order, at set distances, on the bottom (or on the side for landscape orientation), thus enabling matching connectors on the dock to connect to all 3 at the same time, and providing enough "hold" to the device.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  50. A/V by DrYak · · Score: 1

    So, if you went all Apple, you'd have one charger type. You're complaining because you didn't stick with one manufacturer.

    Yet every single other non-Apple manufacturer is sticking with the same connectors.
    By not sticking with apple but by using multiple non-Apple manufacturer, he has (And I have too, BTW) only one charger type too: MicroUSB.

    You want everyone who wants A/V to have a separate dock to drag around? Yeah, that's better.

    If the connector is standard (microUSB in the partent poster's example), the dock is standard.
    - a USB Audio device is still an USB Audio device, no matter who made the OTG microUSB connector to which you stick it.
    - currently only DisplayLink manufactures USB DVI/VGA chips, and they are already supported by Linux (and thus android) anyway.
    So just use whatever USB dock is laying around just like you would use any standard charger.

    And that's without taking into account stuff like MHL
    which can share the same connector as microUSB (on the smartphone side, and the same connector as HDMI on the TV side).

    Or simply slapping an extra microHDMI connector.

    I have all Apple stuff and everything works just like you imagine. iPhones, iPods iPads. Just leave chargers plugged in at strategic locations all the time.

    Which forces you into an Apple Lock-in. You can only plug other iDevices into said chargers.
    Parent poster (and I) can plug anything supporting microUSB on ours.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  51. Doable, and already done. by DrYak · · Score: 1

    Audio In, Audio Out

    - For analog, already done for Mic and earphones on the mini jack.
    - For optical even as far as the Minidisk there have been portable device packing red LEDs at the bottom of the mini-jack to work as optical out
    - Can be done over USB simply by connecting a chip which is seen as a "USB Audio" target by the phone.
    - Stuff like MHL can carry full HD digital A/V over the same connector as microUSB
    - Lot of high end device also feature a microHDMI connector which can also carry Audio.
    Unlike USB, MHL and microHDMI don't require an extra chip in the cable.

    Video Out

    - USB chip producing Video Out can be connector to a microUSB connector too. (see Display Link for an example on normal USB connectors). Drivers already exist for Linux (and thus could be used for Android)
    - As stated above, some modern device do MHL and HDMI which can carry digital video too.

    (depending on resistor value), Dock detection

    If you can't detect a dock over USB, you're doing something wrong.

    In short, it's possible and already done with modern devices which have a dual microUSB/MHL connector, a microHDMI connector and a jack.

    The only thing that needs to be done:
    put a LED on the mini jack, and put all 3 connectors in a line at the bottom (or side for landscape) of the device, at well defined distance from each other and you have the perfect connector.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  52. HDMI by DrYak · · Score: 1

    or was very expensive because it had to do everything over USB (and required a special app) or Bluetooth.

    The price tag is a little bit high.

    Some other Android device have micr-HDMI port. HDMI can convey control data with very low complexity part over the I2C channel.
    MHL is also supported through a dual-purpose microUSB connector and could also be simplier for handling controls.
    It's not impossible to do, just not very well done until now.

    Some Android devices can do analog video out via their headphone jacks. Which means if you want to charge at the same time you need two cables. And again, if you want to have off-device controls you need a full USB implementation.

    Well for a new connector created in 2012 and which has to be used for a long period from now, I don't think that analog video needs to by a first class citizen.
    Better to concentrate on good support for digital A/V through MHL, HDMI and the like.

    Perhaps you should try again? Or not....

    The end result is:
    - like other people in this thread said, doing the same stuff as Apple with just a micro USB and a jack is not impossible.
    - even if it is not widespread nor cheap, it's been done (which proves it's indeed doable).
    and that's even without taking into acount new standards like MHL (which run over the same connector as USB) or microHDMI ports that some hi-end device have.

    If you pay attention, the main problem are not the connectors it self, but the lack of standards:
    - the connectors aren't placed in a standard fashion, so it's not possible to just design a dock featuring micro USB + mini Jack (+ eventually microHDMI) at matching positions.
    So multiple cables are connected.
    - there is not currently a standard way to handle controls. So everyone needs to slap its own full USB implementation and write an application for Android.
    (Although it should be possible to advertise controls simply as a "HID device" to the OTG microUSB connector).

    To go back to the whole controversy against Apple's connector, you have basically 2 options:
    - just design a new proprietary connector and keep everyone using iDevice locked to you.
    That's what Apple went for and that's why /. is unhappy.

    - leverage existing standards, and design a useful standard on top of them:
    * put a microUSB connector, but require it to be OTG (can act as host, there are still smartphones which are device-only mode)
    * and/or require the connector to be also able to do MHL (this standard has been designed for digital media, use it!)
    * or require a microHDMI connector (provides ditigal media, and simple serial I2C, and even ethernet for latest versions of HDMI)
    * eventually require that the mini-jack can also function as an optical out (see old minidisks).
    * define precise location for those, so it's possible to design a complementary jack.
    * define software standards (like "controls should act as a HID device visible to the OTG microUSB" or "following simple I2C transmission can be used to communicate")

    That's what all the poster on this /. page want.
    If connector position is defined, and protocols are made clear, a lot of the mess will go away. Apple could be in a position to spark such a move forward.
    But they won't. They don't like to play along with others.

    Or even a crazier 3rd options:
    -Go wireless:
    Palm's touchstone has already proven that wireless charging (and magnetic docking) is a viable solution.
    Bluetooth (specially recent version that can use NFC for detection/authentication and WiFi as additionnal channel for more speed) can handle a lot of stuff (including digital A/V). (For exemple, several latest generation bluetooth device can authenticate over NFC just by touching the devices, no PIN required - and some webOS tech demo used NFC to initiate data transfert simply by touching one docked tablet with a smartphone).

    Sound crazy?

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  53. OTG USB by DrYak · · Score: 1

    Plus analog audio and video

    Yup, for a standard developper in 2012, this is definitely a must have~
    Let composite connection die. Most of the smartphones produced in the future are likely to interface digital devices anyway.
    If peopl want to interface an analog TV set, i think it's acceptable to ask them to buy a converter.

    plus a control spec so you don't have to implement a full USB host in your peripheral.

    What about having the control act as a USB HID *device*, and have OTG USB on the phone which could then act as a host itself ?
    Or using the I2C available on HDMI? (That requires very minimal electronis on the device side ?)

    and I'm sur that the newer standard MHL (digital A/V over the same connector as microUSB) could also be used to tackle some of the problems.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]