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Microsoft Surface Pricing Goes Toe-to-Toe With Apple iPad
Nerval's Lobster writes "Microsoft has finally revealed the pricing of its upcoming Surface tablet to a small group of journalists, including Time's Harry McCracken, who wrote in an Oct. 16 posting that the device's 32GB version will retail for $499 (or $599 with the flexible keyboard cover) and the 64GB one for $699 (cover included). Preorders will apparently begin by midday Oct. 16. Microsoft unveiled Surface over the summer but kept the pricing a secret until now. That information vacuum led some to hope against hope that Microsoft would attempt something radical and price Surface extraordinarily low—$199, perhaps—in an attempt to undercut Apple's iPad. While that didn't happen, Surface at least matches its biggest rival's low- and high-end price points. The WiFi-only, 16GB version of the iPad retails for $499, while the WiFi-only, 64GB version costs $699 (iPads with a cellular connection cost a bit more)."
A related article at BGR explains why the Surface is Microsoft's latest attempt to re-invent itself.
Somewhere, a kid has been begging and pleading to get an iPad for Christmas.
Somewhere, a parent is thrilled to find that Microsoft's iPads are on sale for $100 off.
One day, both of them will relate the story to their therapists.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Who's his co-workers?
Jack Mehoff?
Chuck Roast?
Phil Magroin?
Seymour Butz?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I've always wanted to pay over $100 for the pure pleasure of typing on one of those rubbery keypads with a lot of squish and almost no travel!
When your competitor has OWNED the market for several years, you don't MATCH their price, you blow it away.
Who would be dumb enough to pay the same price as a 3rd generation device to guinea pig a 1st gen device from a company that is known to suck at first releases?
And then there's Google's tablet for a dainty $199/$249
Microsoft really does suck at new things.
Finally, they enter the ballgame, just as Apple is set to debut the iPad Mini. Good luck with that, Microsoft.
But for the same price people will just buy an iPad with its established app store eco system, millions of already satisfied customers and huge market dominance. There had better be some petty attractive early adopter discounts or this'll be another Zune. Which is a shame, because the Surface looks awesome.
You pays your money and takes your choice. That's all
Hmmm. Windows 8 RT just doesn't interest me. I don't even think I'll even give these a glance until the x86 version arrives.
"False hope is why we'll never run out of natural resources!" - Lewis Black
I feel like this is the first product that finally removes the line. Even the best tablets before this didn't run the same OS and a laptop or desktop, and while the RT may be argued to not remove that difference, the Pro does. Not that the keyboard will be as good or the experience the same, but the product has finally arrived that removes the line. You can now install the same program file to your desktop, laptop, or tablet.
With the Metro interface we all love so much here on slashdot and of course being forced to use this wonderful browser!'
What is there not to love?
http://saveie6.com/
How does this tablet Zune squirt? Is it available in brown?
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Have you even touched one of those keyboards to know what you are talking about? Or are you just assuming it is like other portable keyboards that have come before?
Read the specs. The Touch cover has no travel, it has no keyswitches that move to activate.
It is a flat piece of plastic with touchscreen like capacitive sensors, similar to a smartphone/tablet screen.
targeting the existing 1.3 billion Windows users.
Neither the Surface nor Windows 8 appear to be catching fire. They need market share, not some Marketeer's dimwitted idea of "perceived value." This price point guarantees failure.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
It remains to be seen exactly how this device works out, but with this new information It actually doesn't look like a complete failure at launch.
But not as an ipad competitor.
This device could appeal to people that want to bridge the gap between tablet (Modern, ipad or andriod like tablet - Not old convertable laptop tablet) and traditional windows platforms. Ipads and andriods suck hard at productivity applications. The surface, with office and other microsoft software, and sort-of-unification microsoft's platforms with win8, might actually be a good light use productivity tool.
As an ipad (or andriod tab) replacement? Hell no. Worst of both worlds. All the walled garden of apple and none of the flexiblity of andriod. No to mention an app and media store that's worth than either Google or Apple's.
I would say "I think they have to look up the definition of 'invent' again",
if MS had ever know the definition in the first place.
I can't stand Apple, but at least they are walking their own way. (Even though it's morally deeply utterly wrong way IMO.)
MS always either imitated... badly (and usually in a deliberately anticompetitive way)... or they just outright devoured the company (after killing it first, if possible).
This is just another case their a long list of FAIL.
At least nowadays, it hurts them.
But apparently, you can't teach an old dog new tricks, and so they never learn.
And Windows 8 is the nail in their coffin.
Good bye Microsoft. Nobody will miss you.
Shout it from the rooftop.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Start your bitching about how Microsoft is gouging for the extra SSD storage. ZOMG $100 for another 32 gig, I can buy 32 gig sd cards for $19.00! What a ripoff! ZOMG!
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
targeting the existing 1.3 billion Windows users.
I wonder how many Windows users will mistakenly buy a Surface tablet expecting it to run their "Windows" application/gaming software.
Mod parent down.
God; I was afraid it was a link to a browser exploit that would automatically add you to the queue to get a surface. After thinking that Goatse seems quite innocent.
=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
"...or an ill-conceived also-ran like the Zune."
No. It is a delusional, strategic blunder.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
This Christmas I was hoping to get a Nexus 7 for my son and the Surface for my wife. At around $200 each, they'd be pricey but possible gifts. Now, cross off the Surface - may check in with the Kindle Fire 2 instead.
Probably quite a few. The "Overview" section does say "Surface with Windows RT works exclusively with apps from the Windows Store." This is all "planned obsolesence" moving forward with Windows technologies means the previous generations need to go away. Apps need to go through the Microsoft Store to be published to Windows Phone/Windows 8/Windows RT. Welcome to the "new".
Note that it does have an microSD card slot. With that in mind, the point of the 64 Gb version eludes me completely.
Since this is a walled garden system, you might not be able to install software on the microSD storage.
Who's microsoft? I thought that went out witht he model-T.
True, you won't be able to. But what kind of software you'd install on an ARM Windows device that you'd need more than 32 Gb for that? I don't think that, even if you install every single app in the store, you'd hit the 32 Gb limit - not even close.
The point of having more storage on a device like that is for media content - music, videos etc - and possibly for downloaded files.
Given that they have to pay a probably unreasonable license fee, they're now competing against their partner at a disadvantage. Why should they even bother trying?
I will probably buy one of these. They run Windows. They have a USB port. They will run a piece of software I want to run that will not run on IOS or Android, although it also has a version for OS-X.
No, they won't!
Windows RT is *not* Windows. It's a new operating system for ARM processors that is designed to look and feel like Windows, and shares some of the original code base. It has no backwards compatibility with existing Windows applications. Just in case I didn't make that clear, it will *NOT* run *ANY* existing desktop Windows applications. In fact, you can't even recompile or write new desktop application for WinRT. There is a desktop, but it's only allowed to run a few programs, such as Microsoft Office. (Why the FTC is letting them get away with that blatantly anti-competitive decision is beyond me.) Oh, and WinRT can't join domains either, so businesses won't be interested in using it.
If you want to run existing Windows software, you'll have to wait for the x86-based Surface *Pro*, which will set you back nearly a thousand bucks. *That* will indeed be basically a PC in a tablet form factor, and compatible with the usual Windows ecosystem stuff.
Microsoft is setting itself up for a massive backlash with this device. If Slashdot readers are thinking this way ("it's Windows, it will run my software") then how many ordinary users will make the same mistake? They will not be well disposed towards Microsoft products after that experience, I guarantee you.
The IBM Thinkpad keyboard has a 2.5mm stroke length and is perfectly usable (superior to most other non buckling-spring designs). In fact the X1 has a 2mm stroke and is still usable, if a bit less familiar feeling.
The Touch cover, has no travel. It has no stroke length. It has No Keys/Keyswitches.
Take your mouse pad, get a ruler and a sharpie and draw a keyboard on your mousepad.
Now type on that. You now know what touch cover typing feels is like.
I Don't Own An iPad or Android Device, nor am I Clairvoyant. But I think these may sell well.
I will probably buy one of these. They run Windows. They have a USB port. They will run a piece of software I want to run that will not run on IOS or Android, although it also has a version for OS-X. Apple does not sell an iPad-like device that runs OS-X.
They don't run Windows. They won't run your Windows apps. It'll only run apps from the Surface Store, same way iPads only run apps from the Apple Store.
Not hater, just trying to save you some money.
Which piece of software would you need that runs on Windows ARM? This is not an x86 device.
They run Windows**^^
**Windows RT is not backwards compatible with existing Windows applications.
^^Windows x86 tablets will not be available until 2013 and will cost more
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
What will give the Surface life or kill it are the availability of apps. Both consumer level stuff (like stuff like Angry Birds), as well as enterprise level Exchange support, Office support, and so on.
Right now, the iPad has three generations of a head start, a well established app ecosystem, apps that are usable in a business environment, and good Exchange support. MS has a lot of ground to cover.
The hardware design looks amazing, and would be very welcome when all non Apple hardware tends to be awful, with some notable exceptions like Asus.
The rest I don't understand. $500 and no retina/high ppi display? A 16:9 ratio on a device that is supposed to be meant for productivity? 10.1" is really pushing it for productivity, the wide narrow screen would just kill it. No stylus support. $100 buys you a crap keyboard - at least Asus docks include a big battery.
The Windows 8 tablets looks nicer but then the pricing gets ridiculous.
For the same reasons, this also could make a great bussiness machine. You can have a desktop and you can take it too meetings like a laptop, but you can also walk the floor with it and interact with in your hands like a clipboard. It's travel friendly. And it's got all the verstaile behaviour of a tablet like orientation sensing, touch, etc... And you can lock it in the drawer if it has confidential info.
I think at least half the people in my company could replace their desktops with this.
The only disadvantages are:
1) will it be an unsupported zune left in the dust of android and ipad.
2) will MS fumble the ball on the goal line as usual. It's has to work well.
if it can beat those inertial barriers it actually is a great idea.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
I had high hopes for the Surface...if only to keep Apple and Google and Amazon honest. But the $499 price is a complete non-starter. First of all, if you want the cover/keyboard you have to fork over an additional $100. Seems a little steep to me. $50 is more like it. Secondly, when you buy one of the other tablets you're buying into a vast ecosystem of apps. Microsoft? They have relatively little to offer. Sure they have Office but this is supposed to be a consumer tablet, not a corporate tablet.
Unless you are just a huge Microsoft fan to begin with I don't see any compelling reason to buy one of these. You can get an iPad with vastly more apps to choose from. You can buy an Android tablet for much the same reason, and cheaper to boot. You can buy an Amazon tablet for half the price and, if you have a Prime membership, access to tons of movies TV and books.
I was hoping that MS would price it at $399, including keyboard/cover. That would give them a fighting chance against the other guys. Even if they have to sell it at a loss at least they can get them in peoples hands and give developers an audience to write for. As it stands now, this will be Touchpad II.
If you're clueless enough to follow a shortened/obfuscated link, you deserve whatever you get.
Well, normally, for something like being forced to see a Goatse, I would agree with you 100%. Especially as the link hiding services mostly provide ways to de-obfuscate links. Especially as you could turn off images and scripting before logging in. However, nobody deserves to be added to the surface pre-order queue and have it automatically listed on their facebook wall. Some things are just beyond inhumane.
=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
Only the Surface Pro runs the Windows desktop. The Surface/WinRT machine mentioned is Metro-only.
-Dave Haynie
this last one is killer. it lets you use this as a servicable desktop or laptop replacement. jack in a real screen, KB, and usb disk and you have a desktop computer that is probably better than the 4 year old peice of dell junk your older relative is using now.
and 2.5 it lets you use your old applications.
No, it will only run Metro apps ('Windows Store apps' or whatever they're called now) and a tweaked version of Office. If you want to run Windows software, you'll need the 'Pro' models which look to cost about twice as much.
Using your eyes, look at the surface keyboard. Notice how thin it is. How much travel could there possibly be?
Well maybe that's why they have the touch cover and the type cover, the difference being mechanical key action.
http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-US/accessories/type-cover
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Only the Surface Pro runs the Windows desktop. The Surface/WinRT machine mentioned is Metro-only.
Well that's not true. It does have a desktop mode. However, it is true that the RT will not use desktop apps.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/10/3296443/windows-rt-arm-tablets-no-desktop-mode
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
They want to sell Surface, which runs Windows RT, which rely on the Windows appstore, which is basically more or less empty at the moment.
By forcing desktop Windows users to "use" the Start Screen, it increases Metro and the appstore's exposure, entices users to check them out, which in turn entices developers to develop for it.
And then MS's appstore builds up and selling Surface becomes... Easier.
We'll see in 6-12 months-if the appstore momentum doesn't build up, the Surface will go into a fire sale.
They should lose money on every tablet they sell initially to get the damn things out there!
This is falling into the same trap as everyone else who has matched Apple's price --- Apple has the mindshare, the apps and the cool factor. You have to undercut that at least until you are well established!
I think this concern is overblown. When the first iPhone was announced, Steve Jobs stated unequivocally that the iPhone OS *is* OS X. And yet no one was under the presumption that the iPhone would run OS X software. The reason for this, I believe, was that the UI and form factor was so different from a traditional Mac desktop, no one ever considered that their desktop applications would run on it, OS X or not.
Windows RT looks sufficiently different from traditional Windows, and it's only available on tablets. I think this is enough for people not to expect that it will run the traditional desktop apps they use with a keyboard and mouse, even though it bears the Windows name. The only thing I think will lead consumers ever to consider running desktop software is the availability of a desktop mode, but I think their expectations will be set by what they see first: the metro environment.
Actually, I think Microsoft will have the opposite problem: informing people that Windows 8 tablets, desktops, and laptops do in fact run desktop grade software.
But Microsoft is still firmly entrenched in business.
In the PC market which is an almost completely unrelated market at this time. Furthermore just because you sell a lot of product to businesses today doesn't mean they will buy a different product from you tomorrow. Businesses buy Windows and Office primarily due to network effects. These don't really exist on this new tablet product and so Microsoft really has no advantage over Apple or Google or Amazon. Corporations don't buy from Microsoft out of loyalty - just ask Research In Motion.
I predict large corporations will eat up Microsoft's new tablet.
Based on what exactly? What does it provide that they cannot get from Android or Apple?
I don't think that, even if you install every single app in the store, you'd hit the 32 Gb limit - not even close.
On the Apple App Store, games can easily hit a gig or more (especially AAA games like Infinity Blade or Rage). While some people don't mind uninstalling and reinstalling apps periodically, a lot of others would rather just have everything on their device at all time, so having more space where software can actually be executed would be useful.
Of course, I'd imagine most people aren't gamers/hoarders, but with even some freemium titles being a third to half a gig, I can see someone getting a large collection going rather fast, even if only downloading chart-topping titles.
Like the +4 comment from a techie above? This is a very real problem. http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3189429&cid=41672519
Implicit Evaluation with PHP
Microsoft is setting itself up for a massive backlash with this device.
I'm not sure there will be much of a backlash on this. Maybe. It depends on how confused people are. But really I think Apple has helped to set the stage for people to accept this sort of thing, since the iPad similarly runs a modified version of OSX that doesn't run normal OSX applications.
This thing is not going to sell. It will bomb. Even with a billion dollars spent in advertising. They are late to the party as usual and it's a P.O.S.
A) It's a lot less walled than you think. Contrary to the complete bullshit that some Slashdotters keep repeating, even the RT version comes with the Windows desktop, Windows Explorer, CMD, Powershell, etc. You can move files (including binaries) onto a SD card or flashdrive, or mount the SD card or flashdrive into the root filesystem (yes, NTFS supports this; has done so for years). You can even move your user profile onto the external storage if you really want to (Windows doesn't include a tool to do this explicitly, but it's possible either with some registry edits or with symbolic links, and both are possible with the tools that ship on Win8 and therefore on WinRT).
B) You plan to install 64GB of apps? Even leaving aside room for the OS and opre-installed Office install footprint, you plan to install even 50-odd GB of apps? A few AAA PC games combined will take up that much space, but hardly anything in *any* of the "app stores" is more than a few hundred megs, and most apps are less than 10MB. You'd need to install a horrendous number of those to fill up even 32GB of storage.
C) The "point" of the 64GB version is, of course, that some people would rather just buy their storage integrated, rather than needing to buy an additional storage module, even if that's the less economical approach. Additionally, if you don't rely on having an SD card inserted all the time, then you can actually use the SD slot for removable storage (although the presence of USB ports helps there too). Also, SD cards tend to have relatively crappy random-access time compared to SSDs (good bandwidth, but high "seek" time for flash storage due to the tricks used to get that high bandwidth out of so little silicon) and therefore you'll get slightly better performance accessing files on the internal storage.
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
SurfaceRT has things that your company won't like.
1. No AD.
2. No GPOs.
3. No backwards compatibility.
4. Limited email functionality.
http://techpinions.com/windows-8-tablets-and-email-a-disaster-in-the-making/10360
5. Slightly limited Office functionality. (Scroll down a ways, they buried it)
http://blogs.office.com/b/office-next/archive/2012/09/13/building-office-for-windows-rt.aspx
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
Rally to me, boys!
This is the tale of Zune, the Once and Future Tablet that would be King.
Faced with impossible odds, priced high so that Apple could laugh at it, nonetheless this feisty tablet almost worked.
Sometimes.
For it had a heart of ***** BLUE SCREEN ******
Rally to me, girls!
This is the tail of Zune, the Twice and Futuristic Table that would be Princess.
Faced with improbable odds, priced so that Apple fanbois would think it Premium, it had a heart so true and
***** GREEN SCREEN *****
Red is the color of my true love's button.
Red is the color of her heir.
Red is the color of her Bing Apples.
***** SIGNAL NOT FOUND *******
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Yes, I understood that it was the "Pro" version that would run X86 software and should have been less succinct in my first comment.
They don't run Windows. They won't run your Windows apps. It'll only run apps from the Surface Store, same way iPads only run apps from the Apple Store.
Not hater, just trying to save you some money.
Thanks. Actually, the Surface Pro version will, and I should have been more clear in my first comment to that effect.
Won't Apple allow bluetooth mouse functionality?
I get it (which is sad, kind of) for general purpose iPad apps (home screen, Apple apps, etc) but it'd be really nice as a controller for RDP/VNC/X apps and make a lot of games more playable on the iPad.
With a BT keyboard and mouse, I could really get a lot of shit done with RDP and my iPad. It's kind of OK with just a BT keyboard, but having to touch the screen for mousing is super inefficient.
I Don't Own An iPad or Android Device, nor am I Clairvoyant. But I think these may sell well.
I will probably buy one of these. They run Windows. They have a USB port. They will run a piece of software I want to run that will not run on IOS or Android, although it also has a version for OS-X. Apple does not sell an iPad-like device that runs OS-X.
and neither does microsoft sell an arm device that runs windows as everyone knows it. there's equal chances that the sw you want to run on it is developed for android or ipad as there is that it's developed for arm windows RT - if you value freedom then of these 3 systems you'd choose android since that's the only one where you don't need to rely on someone else deciding what you will run. which gets us to the problem of expectations, windows RT is not windows but how are average salesguys and consumers ever going to get that before they try to run something from their previous machine?
it has usb host though, for a limited set of devices.
you could've even bought an arm device that runs a windows desktop years ago, with windows programs. you can get one of those for under hundred bucks from china(spoiler: it's windows CE it runs, but that's more of a "windows" than windows rt is, at least you can install a regular like putty on it, not that it would make anyone want those devices).
orange and motorola sell an intel device that runs arm android sw though...
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Get the Transformer dude, all the advantages, none of the downsides. You get 9+ hours in tablet mode, 16+ in laptop mode, and more importantly its got all the Android apps whereas after devs got burnt on WinPhone 7 I bet its gonna be hell to get anybody developing for WOA. Oh and yes I know its called WinRT now, but I thought WOA was a better name as in "WOA bro, what do they think they are doing?"
Hell if you get them a Surface I have a feeling in a year its gonna be just as dead as WinPhone 7. with MSFT's history of abandoning mobile platforms that don't become hits its foolish to be an early adopter of anything MS Mobile, so get the Transformer.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
This is completely unaccurate. Windows RT supports applications build using WinRT, which is the planned substitute for the current Win32 API. Windows 8 Pro supports WinRT and WIN32. Current desktop applications are build upon WIN32, but as time passes more applications will run on both OS, because they will be using WinRT. For more information, look at here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Runtime. Windows RT has nothing to do with running on ARM. In fact, there are plans a future versión of Windows RT running on Intel Atom.
Microsoft execs and marketing are complete and utter morons for keeping any part of the Windows name for the consumer Surface. Apple's iPhone OS (later iOS) was completely dissociated and looked totally different from the Mac OS X that people were familiar with, and it was obvious to nearly all consumers that you could not load Mac software onto it (heck, for the first year there were no apps to load at all).
Surface? WinRT. Similar interface to Windows 8 desktop. Confusion reigns.
They should seriously pay me whatever they pay their execs and marketing staff. I'd could've sat around doing nothing for the last year, and the result would be better than the mess they're making for themselves with WinRT.
Sort Of. You can execute CLR applications, but using the WinRT library, which is not the same as the ASP.NET we're used to. Currently you can attach the WinRT library using C#, C++ and JavaScript.
I think they should but an start button on the Win 8 desktop, let corporate users customize if they prefer to bootstrap metro or desktop style, and call it a day. For the mobile and tablet markets, I think Win 8/RT is a winner. Clearly superior to Android, if you ask me.
If your web app requires ActiveX or Flash or Quicktime or just about any other plug-in technology, it's dead on WinRT.
I imagine that's not an insignificant percentage of web apps.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
and 2.5 it lets you use your old applications
You absolutely cannot use your old applications on the Windows RT ARM-based device.
I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
And yet no one was under the presumption that the iPhone would run OS X software.
That is certainly not true. I personally new two people who asked me how to put their OS X apps on their iPhone when it came out, who trotted out the "but it runs OS X" when I explained that they couldn't.
Honestly, I'm not going to say that this was a big deal, I think my anecdote was probably unusual. However, mac users aren't mac users because of legacy application support. Windows users' only reason for not switching to something else is legacy application support. Who was the last person you talked to that said they liked Windows?
or better yet... get the Transformer with Windows 8... then you have an actually desktop OS that works well as a tablet and gives you the same crazy battery life.
Not the word you are looking for, I suspect.
Still not it. You are probably trying to say "in good faith" in Latin ("bona fide").
Anything else similar between the devices?
Apart from that its mostly night and day. The iPad has a serious screen where you can expect to really view photos and documents. This is much more of a toy.
=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
Citation please? Because while I personally prefer X86 over ARM even I will be the first to note its nearly impossible to get ARM battery life on X86, just as its equally impossible to get the IPC of a CULV Intel or AMD chip out of an ARM CPU.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Although you are almost correct in concept (legacy software won't run), you're almost entirely incorrect in details. I expect better on /. (at least around technology) and therefore I shall somewhat pedantically correct you.
First of all, Windows RT runs on the NT 6.2 kernel, same as Windows 8. Let's just get that out of the way. It's no more a "special version" much less "new operating system" of NT than the x64 or Itanium (or, going a bit back in history, MIPS, PPC, or Alpha) builds were... aside from the requirement that .exe files have Microsoft's signature. None of those historical NT ports could run "existing Windows applications" either, but they were still Windows.
Second, all of the standard Microsoft desktop components - which use the same APIs as third-party code, BTW - run just fine. Windows RT mandates Microsoft signatures for desktop apps, but assuming a third-party app could obtain such a signature (and was compiled for ARM), it would run. This is not some cloned OS that looks like Windows but is different underneath; aside from the instruction set, the same libraries are present on both.
Third, you say it "shares some of the original code base" but I doubt you can point to any binary that is on Win 8 (not Pro, just standard Win8) but not on Windows RT. As it happens, there are a few, but I doubt you can identify them. It *is* the same code-base, aside from the small (though certainly high-impact) change to the program loader.
Fourth, it comes with CMD, Powershell, and Windows Script Host, so scripts from older versions of Windows will run equally well on Win8 and Windows RT, provided they don't call into third-party software. Given how powerful Powershell scripting is, and the fact that you can create and use COM objects, this is actually a way to port entire apps to Win8 provided that they only use managed code (without requiring additions to the GAC, although I haven't actually confirmed that doing so is impossible) or built-in native COM objects.
Fifth, Windows RT can install third-party apps by sideloading (not be default, but you can unlock it), as well as from the store. "Metro-style" apps can be written in C++ and access the standard Win32 libraries just fine; your app may not be accepted into the store at that point, though. However, you can post the .appx package online for others to download if you want to. The unlock for sideloading is free and already available publicly from Microsoft.
Sixth, we have no actual info on the cost of Surface Pro yet. It could be "nearly a thousand bucks" as you claim - in fact, I'd say that's a decent guess - but that's only a guess. It could also be $700, or $1500. Even I don't know, and in case you couldn't tell, I've been following leaks and details of Surface fairly closely.
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
Depends on the app.
Many .net apps either
1) use winforms
2) include unmanaged calls
3) use 3rd party toolkits that suffer from 1 and 2
Wpf apps shouldn't be too hard to port, but the UI paradigms are quite different so you will have to perform major surgery on that part of the app
Really? You think?
They really are just copying the iPad, aren't they?
The road to tyranny has always been paved with claims of necessity.
There goes that opportunity down the drain. I know of waaaaay too many people who buy the cheapest tablet with remotely non-bad reviews regardless of anything else. Those people are now not considering the Surface due to its luxury level pricing. Is MS stupid or something? You break into a market at dirt cheap prices, get widespread because of it, then release version 2 at a higher price once people actually respect it. You can't just start it out at "respect it" prices when nobody respects it yet!
I'm fairly certain they said that the Surface is coming out on x86. I know they mentioned an ARM device running a special windows 8 but I don't know if that's a lesser model or an Acer instead or what. I'm pretty damn sure there's a full blown x86 coming out though.
I thought Modern UI/WinRT only used HTML 5 and WinJS? Not much use for your C# code other than server-side then...
This is completely unaccurate. Windows RT supports applications build using WinRT, which is the planned substitute for the current Win32 API.
What I said was completely accurate. No existing Windows applications will run on WinRT, since WinRT does not support any of the existing APIs (Win32 or .NET Framework). Nor can existing applications be made to run with just a recompile. The entire user interface needs to be rewritten and then they need to go through the MS Store (no sideloading allowed). And they will only be able to use Metro - not the standard desktop interface.
Current desktop applications are build upon WIN32, but as time passes more applications will run on both OS, because they will be using WinRT.
That's a very optimistic view. WinRT applications won't run on any existing version of Windows, so Microsoft faces a chicken-and-egg problem. Porting an existing app to WinRT is no less difficult than porting it to Android or iOS, so why would anyone want to do this for a new, unproven platform that most of the IT world hates?
The fact remains: You can't write an app that runs on both Windows 7 and WinRT with just a recompile. You have to do two completely different UIs. So for all intents and purposes, Surface does not run "Windows" at all.
I'm not sure there will be much of a backlash on this. Maybe. It depends on how confused people are. But really I think Apple has helped to set the stage for people to accept this sort of thing, since the iPad similarly runs a modified version of OSX that doesn't run normal OSX applications.
But Apple didn't use the Macintosh brand name for its iOS devices. Microsoft is setting itself up for confusion by claiming that its ARM devices run "Windows" when there is no backwards compatibility at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk
Other than Flex based applications, I'm pretty sure it is a minority of web applications... (Note, I say applications, not sites).
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
That's a given, and if the UI is heavily integrated with the business logic, it makes it far more difficult... I'm glad I work on web-based, and server applications (mostly).
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
You can do Win8 UI apps in any .Net language as well. When they announced the ability to do desktop apps in JS + markup, there wasn't mention of .Net in the demo, people made assumptions and the FUD-fest was started. Personally, I like JS a lot, so despite liking C# as well, would probably go that route for anything new that had to do Win8. But then again, I've been doing a lot of Node.js development lately.
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info