Slashdot Mirror
Machine Gun Fire From Military Helicopters Flying Over Downtown Miami
Okian Warrior writes with word that, as of Monday evening, multiple police agencies and the military were "conducting training exercises over Miami and elsewhere in the county. The exercise includes military helicopters firing machine-gun blanks while flying over highways and buildings. This YouTube video shows helicopters strafing highways with blank rounds near the Adrian Arts center. There are reports of similar actions in Houston From the Houston article: 'if you see the helicopters or hear gunfire, it's only a drill.'" Note: this time, it's not in The Onion.
Trying to provoke the gun nuts into attacking?
The greatest right given is the right to be wrong...
Reason does the government have for strafing public highways...
If you /really/ need to train like this then go build some fake highways in the middle of the desert.
there's a second amendment.
Don't worry, we're the government, we're here to help.
Private Joker: How can you shoot women or children?
Door Gunner: Easy! Ya just don't lead 'em so much!
Who the hell thought this was a good idea?
Food for thought for teabaggers who think they want to go to war with Obama...
Right, lets waste money prepping for Red Dawn. The US has not been at risk of invasion for two centuries.
Okay, so you have helicopters buzzing around and strafing highways with blanks in Die Hard-esque fashion, in highly populated areas.
Oh, yeah. Nothing could possibly go wrong there, right?
I hope that its really a secret operation against Muzzy terrorists in Miami
if you watch the video, RTFA, the trailblazers were in town. the cops were just shooting their fans
Anonymous is about to disclose their warheads and they should be prepared if people finds that information disturbing.
This reminds me of the 2004 incident where the bullets were live.
somehow the pilot was miles off course when he started shooting...
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/05/nyregion/05strafe.html
The Air National Guard warplane, flying a night training mission out of Andrews Air Force Base near Washington, fired a burst of 27 rounds from its 20-millimeter cannon shortly before 10:15 p.m. as it streaked over Little Egg Harbor Township, 20 miles north of Atlantic City, New Jersey military officials said last night
It's not a waste of money if you're in the business of government.
Trying to desensitise the public so that they don't react when it's not a drill?
What happens when training exercise goes bad, cover up!
While I'm sure they have their good reasons for this exercise, I don't think this is the sort of military behavior a "free" society should ever have to experience. Why can't they do it in simulation or in the middle of the desert? Why like this now? I can only imagine being in traffic when this happens...
Just great, now Obama's having the military train with police to attack Americans.
It IS, in fact, possible to wage an effective and persistent guerrilla war against the U.S. Armed Forces. You have multiple theaters of operations as clear evidence.
"Now, I doubt any of you would prefer a rolled up newspaper as a weapon against a dictator or a criminal intruder."
Just like similar drills conducted over Manhattan after 9/11.
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
I really hope there is a bag to catch all that brass falling from the machine guns.
sudo make me a sandwich
In the movies, when there is a lot of shooting in public places, the official explanation is often, "This was just a multi-agency joint training exercise." Yeah right. I'm suspicious that this event may be a(nother) counter-terrorism op about which we may never learn the truth. Multi-city suggests nick-of-time disruption of near attack. Multi-agency including military suggests possible NBC weapon.
There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're talking about. -- John von Neumann
- fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson
Does anyone get the impression that someone is trying to instill fear on somebody here?
Shame no one shot back. If I have helicopters over my head, firing rounds, and I'm in fear of my life, it seems only natural. After all, we all have to be worried about terrorists nowdays, and this isnt something that our Government would allow.
It's Hotline Miami, right? Right guys?
Good way to get shot at.
Our military has enormous lands throughout the U.S. including large areas of forest and desert and even uninhabited towns and cities built specifically for training exercises. The government was building lots of little makeshift towns just to blow them up with nuclear weapons during the cold war. You can find lots of videos of the government testing bombs in massive stretches of the desert. I've taken weapons training on SWAT courses that are like little ghost towns where the instructors have makeshift bridged built all over the course where they can walk above you and take notes on where you messed up something.
It's one thing to have military planes fly over civilian airspace. You have to test these planes traveling for hundreds of miles so of course they'll eventually have to fly over some commercial airspace. Or to have security training exercises be done and rehearsed at an event before it happens. Like the security teams that are not rehearsing the Super Bowl security at the actual stadium. But low flying helicopters? Shooting blanks at civilians and civilian vehicles? What possible reason could there be for that?
What's next? Armed soldiers patrolling the streets shooting blanks at people on the sidewalk? Why not? It's a perfectly safe exercise that won't cause panic at all.
"Hey it's just a training exercise...now put that cellphone camera down or we'll have to detain you. Now go home and watch American Gladiators and go back to bed".
Imagine the fun it's going to be when armed soldiers start firing blanks and some civilian has no idea what is going on and fires back. Or when people start panicking and cause a riot. I'm all for keeping a well trained military....but using our own people as the targets? What kind of self respecting soldier went on this mission without protesting it?
They're still raining hot brass when they fire. It's really annoying when you call in fire from a helo and they're right overhead, ouchie!
what is the point of this? Does the guy with the gun not know what will happen when he pulls the trigger, or not know how to aim? I'm sure they have target practice So why do this in public, without notifying everyone ahead of time? To scare some old timers into cardiac arrest? To force some return fire?
This is just so bizarre.
For the folks who have always believed in Trilateral Commission, who had seen UN insignia wearing officers in Oklahoma city bombing scene and among the wreckage inspectors of WTC, who had seen Chinese character instructions at the back of highway signs, the government + UN conspiracy to subdue the local population after disarming them, especially for the people who believed in black helicopters, Christmas came a little late. Enjoy the gifts folks.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
If some foreign power wants to invade Florida, I say let them have it.
Unless this is a drill for how to do something about Florida, in which case it's about time, but they're going to need something a lot bigger than some machine guns.
All while Obama proclaiming "Your guns......gib dem to me!"
Obama is efforting to turn this country into a socialistic country, This is not a flamebait though its likely to be modded as such.
The fact of the matter is there is an energy market emerging for Liquid Natural Gas (LNG) and its infrastructure creation for exporting.
There are issues with licensing granted by the president. He intends to take advantage of this process. Already there are representitives erging Obama to grants licenses. There is only one so far having been granted. However with Obama position and intent to capitalize on it, take undue credit for the economic change this market will cause, he intends to manipulat the situation politically and at the price of converting the country to socialism and like hitler, he will have the support of the majority of the people, known as the sheeple. Look back in history at which president served more than 2 terms and realize he did the same thing, taking advantage of a market, the oil industry. With new technology in horizontal drilling and fracking, a huge amount of natural gas has been found...... and so has a lot of oil. You can see picture from space at night side of some of this gas being burn't off.
This is not flame bait or a troll, but as reall as it gets.
"Iran terrorizes own population with helicopters".
Ok, they are trainning, and they are using blanks, but training for what exactly?
Can't the govt. just buy some Xbox360s and PS3s?
Google's not turning up anything for HOWTO: shoot down a helicoper.
Do I need to go to the deepweb for that?
Blanks or no, I wouldn't be wild about being pelted with hot brass falling at terminal velocity.
Maybe they are just training in case the south rises again.
What possible excuse is there for doing this over civilians?
Los Zetas.
Mexico must be nearing all-out collapse.
>Machine Gun Fire From Military Helicopters Flying Over Downtown Miami
The horror!
Blanks? oh, nevermind! Nice headline!
More and more news sounds like "The Onion."
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
Are they hitting cars and people?
Not so much because of the military, but because of the 2nd amendment. There are a ton, like 300 million, firearms in civilian hands in the US. What's more, many of these aren't little .25 purse guns, or break action hunting shotguns, they are weapons with military value. As many people have cried about in the press recently, AR-15 variants are quite popular, but they are hardly the only ones.
Well, that makes for a rather bitch of a civilian resistance to overcome. An external invader is going to be pretty universally loathed, their uniforms make for nice "shoot me" targets and it would be pretty literally a situation of getting shot at from every house, every building.
Is is a pretty impossible occupation scenario, and thus makes any sort of real invasion of the US pretty much a non-starter. I mean you aren't going to get all that many troops to the US alive on account of the massive US military, and its suberb intelligence support, but once you do, there are an awful lot of armed citizens.
October 30, 1938. Never forget.
You be shuttin' your fool mouth John Smallberries!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Spent shell casings typically rains down when an aircraft is firing, "blanks" or not. I wouldn't want to be under it without a kevlar.
What is this, the Weekly World News? There are no military helicopters flying over downtown Miami firing machine guns.
This is f**king insane, and EXTREMELY poor judgement on the part of our military leaders. So many things could have gone wrong here, not to mention the fact that they are certainly belittling the peoples trust in their own military. You have to wonder if they are just trying to train for overseas urban warfare, or if they are training to put down a revolt against the citizens of this country. Either way, they could have found a better place to do it than the middle of goddamn downtown Miami. Just plan stupid.
To familiarize the civilian population with the conditions of martial law.
Have gnu, will travel.
Apart from the stupidity of using real infrastructure instead of false ones, or at last empty highways, what if one guy mistakenly took real ammo instead of blank ones?
Don't tell me it can't happen, it already has in France.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1030442/Horror-French-military-17-people-seriously-hurt-live-bullets-fired-crowd.html
17 people hurt, and it was with firearms during the day.
Now imagine a Blackhawk at night...
Why else would they be training in US cities? The economic meltdown cometh to a military theater near you.
This is something I would expect from X-Files episode.
Wonder who was important and dangerous enough that they brought military to assassinate him in the middle of a city downtown.
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
Great once we got the locals on our side.
This is Miami and Houston we're talking about, right?
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Just imagine what's really happening. This was no doubt a real scene with some ex cop and a military man finding some ridiculous intel about our government doing something bad, and now they're on a Die Hard style mission to bring the evil doers to justice. We're just the normal schmucks in the background being led to believe it's all a training exercise.
I believe in you secret agent man. I believe.
The feminist brigade is called Militia Etheridge.
I'm no military or gun expert but I'm fairly certain that there would be thousands of shell casings falling down from the sky which are high caliber and thus quite heavy. I bet they could easily go through a car window or hurt someone's head. Sounds pretty stupid to me.
We are imprisoning you for your own good. Please remain indoors until you are given clearance otherwise.
Training exercise for Marshal Law, this is.
"They're training." Fema camps are in every state with the barbed wire inwards. Once the president orders that a president can stay in power past two terms. We all know how they treated the wall street protesters as "terrorists". The government is just training for this event.
Around 75 million citizens in the USA own more than a quarter of a billion guns and currently have around 40 billion rounds of ammunition in their possession. Most of the military's fighting men and women will desert and go home, taking as much equipment as they can manage to get their hands on, home to defend their families friends and neighbors. If an out-of-control government tries to sic the military on the citizens, things will end up very badly for the tyrants.
As a former member of one of these units, I can tell you that this is a training mission for urban assaults and multi agency communication. We used to do these all over, preferably in foreign cities. I'm actually surprised at the Houston story, as we mostly trained at night. While frightening to the general public, notification would defeat the purpose for the training.
What is the military really preparing for? The resistance to a transition to socialism
First there was a Republic established by the founders, then FDR finalized its transition to a Democracy and Now Obama is efforting to turn this country into Socialism.
What good is history if you want to repeat it?
Clearly some people know what is comming... i.e. http://www.georgia-arms.com/
Need to hear it from the horses mouth? Sign the petition and spread the word of it, like the death star petion.... just to get a response from the Obama Administartion
No where in the Declaration of Independence, The US Constitution or Bill of Rights will you find the word "Democracy." The Founders knew better!
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%." — Thomas Jefferson
"A democracy is a volcano which conceals the fiery materials of its own destruction. These will produce an eruption and carry desolation in their way. The known propensity of a democracy is to licentiousness [disregarding accepted rules or conventions] which the ambitious call, and ignorant believe to be liberty."
— Fisher Ames
"Democracy is the road to socialism."
— Karl Marx (father of communism)
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
— Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to Joseph Milligan in 1816, stated: "To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee of everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."
"It is well known that there have always been those amongst us who wish to ENLARGE the powers of the General Government, and experience would seem to indicate that there is a tendency on the part of this Government to overstep the boundaries marked out for it by the Constitution. Its legitimate authority is abundantly sufficient for all the purposes for which it was created, and its powers being expressly enumerated, there can be no justification for claiming anything beyond them. Every attempt to exercise power beyond these limits should be promptly and firmly opposed, for one evil example will lead to other measures still more mischievous; and if the principle of constructive powers or supposed advantages or temporary circumstances (9/11) shall ever be permitted to justify the assumption of a power not given by the Constitution, the General Government will before long absorb all the powers of legislation, and you will have in effect but one consolidated government." — Andrew Jackson
And as a note for Slashdot interest see Levy's definition of Hackers ethic - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_ethic
Did any of the news organizations offering this reactionary reporting actually check with the local authorities to see if the helicopters were being used in for a movie shoot?
They did THIS without warning anyone? Not one word about it? You've got to be kidding me. That's basically impossible. Obviously they were shooting energy burst rounds at an invisible alien ghost and now they're covering it up.
I think what we are seeing now may be something like standard game-theoretical escalation (between 'government' and 'citizenry').
Since the (corruption-driven) economic crisis, an increase in resistance-like protests have put those in power on edge. Perceiving increased resistance from a portion of the population, those in power are purposely scaling up their defenses against potential resistance (increased surveillance and attempts at gun control, bills like HR 347 and executive orders that grant extraordinary powers, usurpation of due process and indefinite detention etc.).
The game-theoretical result of this is that at the grassroots level, a small but steadily increasing proportion of the citizenry starts to (basically rightfully) sense that the government is escalating against the citizenry. This fuels further calls for resistance, calls for revolution from some quarters, the massively increased gun sales and stockpiling we've seen, and so on.
The game-theoretical result of that in turn is a government saying "oh shit, the people look increasingly likely to revolt", and the result of that is this kind of escalation - a raw display of brute power intended to demonstrate that we'd better all keep in line, "or else" - it's a kind of veiled threat, a kind of shock and awe tactic. "Behave citizens, or next time there'll be real bullets".
We're currently on a game-theory escalation path to increasing fascism and oppression and possibly a prolonged low-grade guerilla-style 'civil war' (though it will never be called a civil war, it will be called 'terrorism').
The proper solution is that both people and government need to try work with each other as partners toward a common goal, both 'sides' need to calm down and negotiate with mutual interest in the concerns (and rights) of the 'other side'.
In reality the government is now so corrupt and overtaken by corporatist interests (e.g. banks who are now supposedly too powerful even to prosecute for serious crimes, and a 'fox guarding the henhouse' situation at the treasury and Fed) that it might not be possible for true cooperation.
My other UID is three digits.
'Training' my ass. Someone go check the highway for pock marks from the bullets.
Might be part of the cause, military and police acting in conjunction is a no no unless Constitution or Congressional Act authorizes.
The one exception is the U.S. Coast Guard which is the only U.S. military force with legal authority.
Maybe something about pretty much the whole population being war hardened vets for like like last 40 years or so and continually fighting this kind of war.
I'm not sure how determined your average local american is, but I don't think there is really a comparison. That said there are an awful lot of war vets in the US as well. However somehow I doubt most of these would be on a side of revolution, I would suspect unless extremely disenchanted, they would likely be with government forces, further making this sort of action pointless.
They're probably filming season 7.
"The sound of gunfire, off in the distance, I'm getting use to it now..." -- Talking Heads, Life During Wartime.
---------
http://marketdailynews.com/2013/01/28/u-s-military-miami-police-staged-an-urban-training-exercise-with-diving-blackhawks-machine-gun-fire/
Make no mistake -- this is urban training in putting down armed resistance to some event, such as economic collapse. This is about the military enforcing control should the SHtF -- and we have an Argentinian-style collapse, and normal law and order breaks down. Remember that, as far as the military is concerned, every man, woman and child in the USA is a potential terrorist. And all it takes for it to become an us versus them scenario is any significant disruption to utilities.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
I'm sure it was just chaulked up as an excercise for urban enviroments. However maybe the more nafarious purpose is to desensitize troops from aiming at civilian targets. Thats not a mom with a stroller, that's a potential taliban and a bomb. Shoot Shoot Shoot. Somehow I would not be surprised that this is how tragaties like the wikileaks gunship video get started during training.
Of course perhaps I am being paranoid and cynical. It could be these are excercise to train troops to avoid civilains in urban settings. One can hope.
is coming up and it's a re-enactment.
Should we tolerate a government that holds the public in terror by staging military exercises that could be easily mistaken for actual attacks? How is the average person supposed to know they are firing blanks? Obviously, the government does not care, because it is their intent for the subject to be in fear.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
I distinctly remember at least one occasion where troops exercising with blank rounds managed to hit bystanders (Carcassonne, France, June 29th 2008). I'm sure there have been others. Not to mention bystanders with weapons firing back!
This is an incredibly stupid and irresponsible action on the part of the military. Not only does it reinforce the belief that the government is planning to wage war on its own population, but it helps break down any inhibition on the part of the soldiers involved to fire on American civilians. Quite frankly, given the cities where this took place, I'm surprised that somebody didn't return fire.
If I was the president, I'd be dragging some pentagon officials into my office with the express intent of publicly crucifying them for this.
Even Jar Jar Binks, the galaxy's clumsiest Gungan, took out about 3 separatist tanks without even trying.
Since I'm level 25 in BF3 I guess that qualifies me as a military expert as well!
Seriously, you mouse commandos need to shut the fuck up...
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
...must be up to his old tricks.
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state..."
We want to be a free country, so we accept the fact that we need a way to defend it from other countries. We will do this by providing a standing army and state regulated militias (National Guard units). We will provide these with the proper weapons to be able to efectively defend this country from other countries.
"...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
Now, since we already said we are going to have an army and state regulated militias, and we already said we are going to have to ARM these entities, we need a way for the common people to make sure they can defend themselves from the army and militias of the government in case the government decides to become tyrannical. We will do this by stating that the common people have a right to keep privately owned weapons and that the government has NO RIGHT to stop people from having them. The government has NO RIGHT to even make it difficult for people to have them. The govt has NO RIGHT to charge a license fee, nor to perform a background check, nor to keep a database of who has the weapons, nor to limit the number of weapons a person can have, nor to limit the type of weapons a person can have, nor to limit the amount of ammunition a person can have, nor to in any other way INFRINGE on the right of the people to keep and bear arms. In the simplest and most concise wording, this right SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.
I hope this makes it clear enough for everyone.
Bazinga.
Its the Adrian Arscht center. Not Arts. I used to live in downtown Miami, trust me an arts center there wouldn't fill a thimble.
I really like this explanation. For all the amazingly stupid bullshit I've been hearing the last month about America having a "gun culture," we are actually far below average in our exposure to this stuff. I'm pretty sure most Americans get a little freaked out whenever they see machine guns outside of movie screens.
There are many possible agendas which would benefit from changing that (let's create the "gun culture" the media keeps telling us we already have), and you have suggested one very plausible one. I can think of some others, too, though yours is better.
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
if the US military has this kind of money to be doing scare exercise for little or not value they have way way too much money in their budget. The us military budget needs to be slashed.
Well, the GP specifically said "Even wargamers know tanks are dead meat in *cities*"
I could see how this would be the case, especially if the military ever came in with a domestic show of force. There are plenty of places tanks aren't going to be able to travel, and plenty of places for them to get stuck. All those tunnels and what-not that often run under streets, bridges, etc, a tank isn't going to travel well over a 15' hole in the ground.
Hopefully we'll never have to find out how tanks fare in a domestic in-city conflict.
the news guy in the youtube video is actually excited like a little boy.
I think the next logical step would be the local chapter of the NRA shooting back.
I'm, somehow relieved that i'm in Europe.
Yes but it also serves as a further step of the overmilitarization of all security forces in the homeland.
The fun fact is that, even if you decide to ignore all the atrocities the government is causing in foreign countries (crimes against humanity is not an exxageration, imho) all that violence, control and deprivation ends up being applied internally.
As it happens with the infamous "war on drugs", the same will happen with the elusive "war on terror".
"Science can amuse and fascinate us all, but it is engineering that changes the world. " - Asimov.
Graphics and voice acting still need work.
..the effectiveness of tanks...
You're being prepped for full scale martial law when they kill your petro-dollar people. Wake up!
They are preparing for the complete economic collapse of the country, which will result in rioting. And when oil imports stop things will get really interesting.
In modern use our mines are deployed to temporarily interdict a particular area in order to promote the objectives of a ground operation. Modern mines -- the ones the US uses - can be deactivated via timer or, I guess by now, an encrypted coded radio burst. Seventy two hours is a long time during a kinetic battle. That is a typical delay.
When I was at the big annual weapons show in Singapore many years ago I checked out various makes of mines. You had to ask. It was like porn. The vendors brought the catalogs out from under the counter. Nothing mine-like was on display. The Yugoslavians (Yes, THAT long ago.) made some of the sleaziest permanent types -- WMD in slow motion. These are used to pollute borders and terrorize and coral local populations. Lots of them in Afghanistan. Not ours. Next door in Tajikistan there is a big mine problem left over from their civil war.
As to helicopter gunships spraying mock ordinance over downtown Miami I say, "Tired." Now as to drones spraying mock ordinance over downtown Miami I say, "Wired."
"No fear. No envy. No meanness." Liam Clancy
I was trained that never point a gun at anything that you don't mind destroyed or dead. Along with it was the mantra, "a gun is always loaded, the safety is always off."
This little bit of conditioning is to keep guns pointed in a safe direction and to prevent you from pulling that trigger when you shouldn't.
It's interesting what/who the military seems to find as the acceptible eventual casualties of a "training accident". Though I would imagine these weapons had those large florescent blank adapters on the barrels that allow blanks to cycle the action of the weapon. Might be hard to see at longarm ranges, though.
...'Escape from New York'. Then 'Escape from LA'. Is Miami next?
Where is Snake Plissken when we need him?
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
Note, I found no mention of this on CNN.com. MSNBC.com, Foxnews.com
Looks like a media blackout is being enforced. (Can't imagine our sensationalist media that covers fires, car accidents, and rapes all over the globes in order to have sensationalist headlines would ignore this willingly.)
Any witness to one of these "exercise" should file assult charges against the military. Remember assault is just the "putting in of fear." clearly even simulated gun fire with blanks is fear inducing if you don't know they are blanks, doubly so if fired from a fully automatic weapon mounted on a black chopper.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Official boats: they must be they have flashing lights. No really good clips of any "action" a half dozen blank rounds getting fired and a few choppers flying around, woo hoo. These are blackhawks right? So what is it M-60's or something they have. Now if it was Apaches with their Bushmasters going :)
At first it was just a few isolated incidents, the press chalked it up to a military "training excersizes" that someone had forgotten to file with the local authorities. Before anyone knew what was really going on, the first cities had already been overrun and it was too late to stop the tide.
What do you think the psychological impact of this display will be? They know the answer to that all too well, so that reaction is obviously what they want.
and OP has mutant mental powers also!
That explains a lot, actually.
Four helicopters flew over our rural area yesterday, heading north. Were there any reports of these 'exercises' occurring anywhere else?
Recently I've noticed a marked increase in A-10's practicing strafing runs over Highway's 65 and 54 in mid-Missouri (within range of Whitman AFB).
Awesome as it is to watch the pilots throw these monster machines around like toys, I do find it a bit unnerving when they "strafe" the highway in front of me, and have to wonder just what scenario they're practicing for...
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Wasn't Miami where they had that zombie face-eating attack not too long ago?
I've got it sussed now... John McAfee has slipped into the country!!1! We're all doomed!!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Man, the government won't quit going after Michael Westin...
We're waiting :-)
XOXO,
Arizona, Idaho, and Montana
Most, if not all US combat helicopters are named after tribes.
When I hear people say this myself and others have to call you on your Bullshit. You sat by for 8 years of Bush shredding our Constitution, spying on us, waging illegal wars, and massively consolidating power. And with your precious 2nd amendment making sure you had guns "just in case" the government ever went power crazy you did what? Right, nothing. The time to act if you were going to do something because you were afraid of the government has long past. If the government ever does plan on coming for your guns, which btw nobody is proposing, that will be step 100 out of 100 with steps 99 out of 100 haven already taken place. In other words, too little too late, the 2nd amendment won't protect you now.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
State and Fed pens are always located far away from urban centers, placed in the rock-ribbed, salt of the earth, god-fearing bible-thumping heartland where the yokels with absolutely nothing in common with the inmates and don't really even see them as human.
Same thing with the military; just check the rosters to make sure no one in the units are from the targeted area.
Can you cite any sources for this aside from a few leftist professors?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_of_Death
Coming soon to a city near you?
Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
One of the local news reporters said that it was a "joint exercise".
If they're not training for military operations on U.S. soil, does it mean that the Miami PD is going with them into the next foreign combat zone?
This is about desensitizing the citizens to military operations on U.S. soil. Otherwise, there's NO excuse for failing to inform the public well in advance. They wanted it to be a surprise so that when it happens for real, the public won't know if it's a drill or not.
After all, the U.S. is STILL fighting them.
You'd think it'd be all over except for the victory parade.
The U.S. has never done well against a distributed, disorganized, guerilla enemy: all they manage to do is play whack-a-mole with them.
So long as individual "terrists" are willing to die for their "cause", they will keep comping, and killing individuals will just spur them on, until the U.S. gives up and declares victory, or is bankrupted.
If "terrorististan" is such a dire threat, just nuke the damn place: at least the "terrists" there will be gone (as will everything else), and it might send a clear message to other nations to watch their extemists, lest their civillians get vaporised (note that this does suggest rebel support as possibly more productive than traditional war, since at least *they* are the ones dying, on both sides, and not *us*, but that too can bite one in the ass: once allies with little to lose can become enemies).
Now, the punch line: it is precisely *because* the U.S. can not fight an effective guerilla war, that true patriots CAN overcome the corrupt rot that is the present government IF enough believe it is truely worth dying on one's feet rather than living one one's knees: I truely believe the evolution of modern warfare will involve distributed, disorganized, rebellion, coordinated by ideology than centralized control. It will be bloody, and barbaric, and anything but sanitized, but once "die on your feet" seems better than "live on your knees", it will happen. It always has.
In Liberty, Rene
That's why I'm concerned by these "training exercises." I don't think there are any unique skills they could be learning. They are just trying to get the soldiers comfortable with shooting at civilians.
USA has been shooting at people around the world for 60 years now for no reason whatsoever except making money for the military industrial complex and for the oil companies.
Only you - and your fellow church memebers - believe that this wouldn't happen in your fantasy government of infinite-dictator-for-eternity ron paul.
Slave revolt in the lead mine because the slaves want protection from lead dust? Kill 'em all! We'll buy new ones!
It's about time this comes back home
That's right! Bring the killing home! Kill the people who want to earn wages more than 10% of the poverty line! That'll teach 'em!
There must be a law in Texas that says if you feel threatened by somebody with a gun pointing at you, shoot back!
Riots are handled by police, not by the military. Check out the Posse Comitatus Act
Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
One is where you feel your life is directly threatened and had no recourse but to kill before being killed. The second is what is called "mayhem" where, for example, someone has opened fire on the public targeting at random. Given their violent display someone might return fire seeing this as an act of terrorism. It isn't reasonable to assume that a military class helicopter, machine gun blazing out the side, randomly targeting civilians as being a legitimate military action. As a juror I would be unable to hold someone to account for returning fire, and I strongly feel that whoever was responsible for authorizing this "training exercise" should be charged in a criminal court for charges ranging from disturbing the peace all the way to an overt act of terrorism. The discharge of weapons in public is completely unacceptable under any situation where they are not responding to a invading hostile force. Our military has always made mock ups of training scenarios in the past kept in remote areas in effort. What madness... what extreme incompetence in decision making led to this idiocy? We pay taxes to maintain a standing military to keep our nation from being a war zone. Why would anyone ever think this was OK?
It doesn't have to be oil specifically. Americans are willing to kill for any sort of profit.
In the beginning they shot at Indians, Mexicans, Spanish. and even Canadians (then British subjects), mostly over land issues. The whole Manifest Destiny thing started around this time.
Then they shot at black slaves who dared to leave the plantations. Cotton is serious business doncha know.
They also shot at Asian people, joining the other Imperial powers who were basically plundering China and other Asian nations.
Then there was that Civil War where Americans thought one government shooting people wasn't enough, they needed two governments, and the two American governments shot at each other, over whether it's ok to shoot at their black slaves. Oh, did you know the president who ended slavery is also the president who introduced income taxes to the US?
That was the turning point when the US military industrial complex kicked into high gear, propelling US from backwater colony to world superpower.
And this is just the stuff they let you know. There's bound to be a ton more killings where the records are lost or hidden.
No, there's more to it than that.
War is driven by political and judicial will. War is expensive.
Deploying heavy weapons means deploying heavy supply lines. While the former may be nearly invulnerable, the latter are rather the opposite unless defended; if defended, the weight of firepower available for actual combat is reduced.
Politicians and so-called justices would have to go into hiding. If their side loses, they might have to stay there.
Law enforcement would be trivially overwhelmed anywhere they didn't side with the rebels and military support was not immediately available.
The winning side gets to set conditions: no slavery, taxes on cotton, right to vote, etc.
War can provide significant leverage for change. War can cut through the legal tangle when a government has gone rogue. War can reset a sick society. War can bring down evil leaders (Hitler, etc.) War can end evil policies (slavery, etc.)
War is pretty much always a horror. But not a draw.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
No? Thought so.
Will it have better computer graphics this time? LED graphics are a little outdated.
*fingergun*Catch you latah!
It's a comparison between gov't spending and household income, not gov't debt and income.
Yes, and as I said, it's an invalid comparison because they switched types of averages halfway through.
Government spending is 54K per household, while mean household income is 127K. Government spending per household is 40% of household income, not 105%.
There is a comparison between mean and median, but that can still be used to make a valid point about the fairness or desirability of our current state of affairs.
Indeed, and what valid point about fairness or desirability do you draw from the fact that median income (the middle class, if you will) is so very, very far below mean income?
Changa hates change.
available and the industry (albeit largely manual) to manufacturer firearms/weapons of all sorts.
In Iraq, for example, Sadam Hussein had so many munitions (rockets, firearms, grenades, explosives, etc.) that the US Army was unable to cordon off and destroy more than a fraction of them. All can be used to build IEDs.
Inside the continental USA great effort has been made to ensure that such munitions are not easily available. It would take major chaos (e.g., a nuclear war, a pandemic) for military munitions to be left unguarded as was the case in Iraq.
Afghanistan is different: munitions leak in from all other nations' borders - it is impossible to police the borders. And while the continental USA has huge borders, much of it is policed (Canada, Mexico to a lesser degree) or difficult to access (the East and West coasts).
Do you know what a "plethora" is?
Battle of Blair Mountain.
Yes, and as I said, it's an invalid comparison because they switched types of averages halfway through.
No, you said it was a comparison between income and debt. Spending is not deficit or debt. Incorrect.
Indeed, and what valid point about fairness or desirability do you draw from the fact that median income (the middle class, if you will) is so very, very far below mean income?
Whatever valid point you wish to draw from that, it does not excuse the financial insolvency of the federal gov't - which harms everyone, but especially the poor who are made dependent on welfare payments.
From the director:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kpaDNTfwd0
After bringing this to dozens of other countries it comes back to bite you. Back then, when your lovely government did yet another excuse to invade another country (or stage a military coup), you should be marching Washington streets protesting. "What goes around, comes around", they say after all. It is never too late, yet now dealing with your government and its corporate sponsors spinning out of control, it will be much harder. Get up your lazy asses and protest against militarization at home AND abroad !
You are very confused. "Militia" meant every citizen, in every state, of fighting age (18-45.) Not "state organization." See the Militia act(s) of 1792.
Also, while we're talking about the 2nd amendment, "well regulated" meant uniformly supplied and equipped. It didn't mean made orderly by legislation.
The 2nd can only be meaningfully read with these understandings; further, it breaks neatly into two sections, the first being informational: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" and the second consisting of a limit on government action: "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Consequently, if you run into a law that infringes on your right to keep or carry arms in any way, shape or form, you've found an unconstitutional law. Concealed carry laws, license laws, "can't carry a knife or nunchuk" laws, chemical glassware laws, etc., etc. All thoroughly unconstitutional.
The problem we have is, our government has been ignoring the constitution for decades at its convenience. Executive, legislative, and judiciary have all been complicit in this. The citizens have, for the most part, not reacted. So the reality of our current situation is that we're not operating as a constitutional republic: We're a de facto corporate oligarchy. So the fact that the government ignores and otherwise violates the constitution seems to be in line with the public's... apathy and ignorance, if nothing else. But it may be something more profound than that. It may be that this change in governance is actually where we want to go. In which case, all talk of revolution will be by a tiny majority, and it will never come to pass. Just as an aside, that's how I'm betting. Your average American wants cheeseburgers and episodes of "Lost." And that's about the end of it.
More on the 2nd here.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Nothing's wrong with professors, be they right or be they left. When you have a problem is when said professor(s) begin to make up their own facts, such as not taking into account the actual meaning of the words "militia" and "well regulated" at the time the document was penned.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
On the other hand, the bread and circuses have never been so plentiful and entertaining, nor surveillance so widespread. Further, we've just observed an almost completely passive reaction to the sundering of almost the entire bill of rights, one amendment at a time. Not sure we're comparing Apples to apples here; there's no sign whatsoever of a revolution that I've been able to see. I mean, there are always complainers, but the public is not riled up at all. In fact, I think they'd be more likely to be riled up if they thought those bread and circuses were going to be interrupted.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
"Consequently, if you run into a law that infringes on your right to keep or carry arms in any way, shape or form, you've found an unconstitutional law." Are nukes OK? because it would be cool to have one, rocket launchers and grenades are cool too - you are correct about the definition of Militia, in the south every white male of fighting age was meant to be in one - to supress a slave uprising should one arise.
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't really out to get me
In a civil war, the cause is leadership. A very small number of targets causing a very large proportion of the problem that resulted in the war in the first place.
There's not going to be a US civl war again - bread and circuses see to that - but sure as can be, were there one, it's not the military that would be the target, because it wasn't the military that was the problem in the first place.
In a hypothetical situation where the judiciary had incurred murderous wrath of a large portion of the populace, how difficult do you really think it would be to pick them off? And how likely do you think their successors would be to continue whatever behavior it was that got their predecessors bumped?
Even congress isn't large enough to pose a serious challenge to an enraged country who really wanted to get rid of them.
The thing is, this situation does not exist. Cheeseburgers and episodes of "Lost." That's what the American people really want. And they've got it. Ergo, no civil war. No matter what anyone in power does. Believe it -- that's been the actual situation for decades now.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Seems like a rather reckless way to train. I mean blanks or not, if I saw a helicopter start strafing with it's guns and I was driving I would start start driving however was necessary to defend myself, if at all possible. If someone didn't know a drill was going on or that it was just blanks, that seems like it will cause many many accidents.
"This is what we'll do to you if you don't agree to every tax hike in the coming years."
I have no idea what point you are attempting to push for here, unless this is pedantry for its own sake.
1. I said debt, but I did not say national debt, and I also referred to it as spending in the same sentence. All spending is debt, until you offset it with revenue. If you fail to offset it, it will become deficit spending which contributes to the national debt, but that's really off-topic since we're talking about spending without regard to government revenue, only in comparison to household income.
2. I addressed the financial solvency of the federal government:
A. We could immediately raise taxes to a 40% average (and let's argue whether we should get there by raising Romney's taxes to 45%, or by raising mine to 65%...)
B. We could cut all military spending, which accounts for half our budget.
Implicit in this is the idea that we could actually use some mix of the two, where we raise taxes to repair the roads we've let rot over the last decade, and simultaneously draw-down military spending until we only outspend 4 or 5 of the next-most-powerful militaries, rather than the top 20 as we do now.
3. Your claim that the government is insolvent is belied by reality, where our government can still sell bonds at a lower interest rate than anyone else in existence. Why do they have a better credit rating than you can ever hope to achieve, if they understand math so much worse than you? We are deficit spending currently, but that was also the case the last time we had a Bush run up the bills, and Clinton turned that around. There is every indication that Obama is turning this around, even with Boehner doing his very best to prevent a recovery. Assuming that we can keep the pressure on to get millionaire tax rates matched to my tax rate, we should be able to increase revenue and decrease spending until we are again paying down the national debt rather than building it up.
Changa hates change.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
1. I said debt, but I did not say national debt, and I also referred to it as spending in the same sentence. All spending is debt, until you offset it with revenue. If you fail to offset it, it will become deficit spending which contributes to the national debt, but that's really off-topic since we're talking about spending without regard to government revenue, only in comparison to household income.
I now see what you mean, but the words mean different things. "Debt" is not interchangeable with "spending". Debt is an obligation; there is no obligation to spend money, though there is an obligation to pay back loans. Spending money that you have does not create debt; you just reduce your savings/reserves. Borrowing money is what creates debt.
2. I addressed the financial solvency of the federal government:
If we assume tax rates and revenue are a static problem, and that it won't have any effect to double taxes on certain types of income. (ex: Capital gains)
What're you going to do if that doesn't work as expected?
3. Your claim that the government is insolvent is belied by reality, where our government can still sell bonds at a lower interest rate than anyone else in existence. Why do they have a better credit rating than you can ever hope to achieve, if they understand math so much worse than you?
They don't have a credit rating better than me. I've repaid all my debts. The US, has not. The US credit rating is eroding as creditors realize the US gov't is not serious about paying back the debt.
Yes, they can get away with it because they own printing presses and can "create" money out of thin air. What actually happens is that they're using inflation as a wealth tax (that hurts the middle class the most) to bankroll the deficit spending. If you earn $100k/year, but it doesn't have the buying power of $50k/year 10 years ago, that is not prosperity.
Appealing to an entity that hasn't planned a budget in 4 years as a "math smart" is also pretty hilarious. Go back and stick your head in the sand. Obama's prosperity is juuuuust around the corner. Ignore the unemployment rates or the lack of growth - that's all Bush's fault, and Obama just needs 4 more years...
PS: Funny how Bush II's economy wasn't Clinton's fault, or that Clinton's economy can't be credited to Bush I.
Constitutionally speaking, yes, nukes are fine. The correct path for the government to have followed at the time would have been to amend the 2nd to the general tune of "except for nuclear arms, biological arms, and chemical arms" (or some such verbiage) -- which I think very few US citizens would have an objection to, and therefore would have been a (relatively) easy amendment to pass. Then they could have made laws to follow, and those laws would have been legitimate in the context of the constitutional republic that the constitution authorizes them to have.
Instead, they have elected to bypass the constitution, most likely for two reasons. First, to admit they they don't have such power would be to also put into doubt many other unconstitutional actions they have engaged in (ex post facto laws, the inversion of the commerce clause, the usurpation of powers not enumerated to them, the assumption of article V powers by the judiciary, various deep transgressions against the bill of rights, etc.) Second, there is probably no more scary boogyman than the spectre of nuclear weapons; it's an excellent pretext to rush to do something because "it needs to be done." Although if we consider the dawn of the nuclear age with any kind of dispassionate eye, it is easy to realize that they would have had a great deal of time available to them before anyone would have had the wherewithal to actually create or obtain a nuclear weapon. Biological and chemical weapons are unfortunately quite easy to manufacture, so the "plenty of time" feature doesn't apply there, but again, that's not to say that the correct path was impossible to follow.
The point of the constitution was to make some things very inconvenient for the government to pursue. They have so altered the stage such that this is no longer even remotely the case. My contention is that we have definitively passed out of that time where we could legitimately call ourselves a constitutional republic.
Yes, that's certainly one way the milita could be used at the time.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
The fed buys most of the US government bonds these days. There is no market rate for US debt because their is no functioning market.
The jig is almost up. The dollar's only hope is the Euro dies first. Then capital flight will give us another 10 years.
The Euro's only hope is the dollar dies first.
China is fucked in any case. They are about to lose the best parts of their bank reserves. As fucked as the dollar and euro are, they are better then the loans the Chinese banks were required to make to politicians sons and daughters.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
But low flying helicopters? Shooting blanks at civilians and civilian vehicles? What possible reason could there be for that?
To prepare for the coming Civil War.
So our military & police are being desensitized so they can later kill us?
I am a domestic terrorist as defined by feds for several of thier reasons: I believe Bible is Word of God, I believe US Constitution is law of land, I do not worship government, I believe law applies equally to all persons including government dieties, I believe God's laws supercede laws of government.
So are you are being desensitized to witness me being kiled or our military & police are being desensitized so they can later kill me? Either way, you do not want to be near me.
Stupid teabagger propaganda about needing to make the government afraid of the people.
Obama and company have every intent of letting the teabaggers keep their guns and bibles, no fucking interest there.
The simple matter is, somebody fucked up, probably with 2 stars, on their shoulder thought this was a good idea. Most and that idjit with the two stars is probably a teabagger himself.
But seriously, Obama won the election, and isn't interested in confiscating bibles and guns for the same reason the Republitarians aren't: they keep the fruitcakes happy.
They could just be training for the mass murder of civilian foreigners.
What? I think it's a lot more likely to be a crowd of American citizens on those streets, brown as they may be. I think they're training against the possibility of a democracy movement coming to this country.
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
I had a discussion with my son this morning, regarding the importance of grammar to properly convey thought.
-hoboroadie
"I will not comply" - Bama-Shooter (police officer/site staff)
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1429118_I_will_not_comply_.htmlhttp://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1429118_I_will_not_comply_.html
I know a few. None of them own casinos. If I hit the lotto (slim odds as I don't play) I will really clear the title on our land by the Skeena. As it is, all decisions regarding land use consider the interests of the salamander, salmon, and the Kitselas Band primary to those of my own family.
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
it's only a drill. until it's a false flag op - now bury this comment.
PS: Funny how Bush II's economy wasn't Clinton's fault, or that Clinton's economy can't be credited to Bush I.
That's easy to explain. It was the Democrat-controlled Congress that got Bush I to raise taxes (breaking his campaign promise) and implement policies which Clinton continued.
Sure, the Republicans took control of Congress soon after, but they didn't make any drastic changes through the remainder of Clinton's terms.
Whereas for Bush II, he is credited with his tax cuts, and the war in Iraq. Both which started under a Republican majority.
Now Obama, you can lay blame on him... some of it. He was too slow to act. He had a Democrat Congress early, but he blew the chance (spent it all on Health Care). There's only so much he can blame on the previous administration screwing up.
There is no excuse for these "drills" other than to terrorize and intimidate citizens. And combined with promotion exams requiring officers to commit to firing on US citizens, West Point "white papers" discussing how to perform counter insurgency against US citizens, and the fact the the Dept. of Homeland Security as stockpiled billions of rounds of ammunition, the only possible explanation is that US government is preparing to go to war with the US civilian population. There are so few actual "terrorists" in the world that nothing else justifies this level of para-military build up.
Its not far fetched. Its happened quite often in the last 113 years. They will either use resistance to gun confiscation or an engineered dollar collapse to start hostilities and implement an authoritarian/free market system like China or Singapore.
I know I'm late to the party, but just saw this posted by a friend on Facebook:
"I get up this morning & on the news I hear about a code red drill at ______ _______ High School today, a school that my husband attended & my daughter _____ briefly, so it hit home is why I'm posting this. So they will lock teachers & students in classrooms today & fire blanks into the school while police sweep the school to "familiarize" students & staff with the sounds of gun fire in the school. So too far or good idea?"
I'm choosing "too far". Why in the hell would people need to be familiar with the sounds of gunfire in a school?
Do you have ESP?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8971311
This is a systematic operation preparing people for martial law or worse civil war. They want to acclimate people to and frighten people with the sounds and smells of war on American soil instigated by the government. You have to be a complete sheep not to see this now.
Holy shit, where are my mod points when I need them
+1 Insightful
Sure, the Republicans took control of Congress soon after, but they didn't make any drastic changes through the remainder of Clinton's terms.
Welfare reform? Blocked Hillarycare?
Whereas for Bush II, he is credited with his tax cuts, and the war in Iraq. Both which started under a Republican majority.
Followed by a Democrat controlled congress who got elected due to Republican fiscal irresponsibility, but increased deficit spending after coming into power. After which, a Democrat-driven fiscal policy exploded and triggered a recession. (idea was to subsidize mortgages to people who weren't good credit risks; this encouraged all sorts of risky and stupid loaning)
Followed by trillion dollar gov't deficits when Democrats controlled the legislature and the presidency. (And Senator Obama voted for that level of spending, so he's not off the hook).
At this point in time, we've gone 4 years without a budget (entire Obama 1st term), with Democrats blocking any attempts to define one.
Our Great Recession (or Depression 2.0) can be easily laid at the feet of Democratic politicians, but Blame Bush (TM).
I wouldn't be at all surprised if this exercise has a more nefarious purpose. To remind everyone who is in control. This country is ripe for a revolution. Keeping everyone in their cubbies, brainwashed, and soma-tized by the corporate owned and government influenced media will only get you so far when the pot is percolating. A people divided are easier to control ... blah blah ... so why not have public displays of military force as gentle reminders, just to reinforce the message. We are headed further down the path of fascism every day. Drones flying over our backyards, TSA removing all dignity whilst guilt is assumed until innocence is proven, more domestic troop buildups under guise of national guard, so why not shoot off a few rounds of blanks over populated areas and keep us little bastards in check?
I'm assuming that taxes will have the same effect on rich people the always have: very little. Your assumption that returning to the tax rates of the previous century will break something (when dropping those taxes did nothing at all) is the one that requires further proof.
And yes, the republicans have filibustered most attempts at defining our spending over the last 4 years, but there's an act of congress that addresses spending and has budget in the name:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_Control_Act_of_2011
I personally don't care for Obama much, but partisan hacks like yourself are exactly the reason this country is in trouble in the first place. You spend your time worshiping Bush rather than addressing real issues, which forces me to defend Obama rather than deal with his very real flaws. Attack him for something bad (drone strikes, wiretapping...) and we've can try to make progress. But continue to attack him for the mess Bush left and you're just wasting everyone's time.
Changa hates change.
"conducting training exercises over Miami and elsewhere in the county."
And this is training for what, exactly?? Attacking the residents, maybe?
BTW, just to quibble, it's the Arsht Center. This was shot in Downtown Miami, and just north of it. Apparently, there were other places in Miami-Dade County invaded, too. I'm just wondering: Did anyone fire back?
u should read the kind of comments coming in a frenzy, expect million views in a few hours
Welfare reform? Blocked Hillarycare?
Which is to say, they did not do much. They didn't push back the Democrat-backed policies that was already in place - policies which apparently blew up later.
Followed by a Democrat controlled congress who got elected due to Republican fiscal irresponsibility
Exactly. Republican fiscal irresponsibility. Part of that is not repealing those bad Democrat policies.
Like I said, feel free to Blame Obama (TM) for the stuff Obama and Democrats do after that, but I was responding to your comment which was, and I quote: "PS: Funny how Bush II's economy wasn't Clinton's fault, or that Clinton's economy can't be credited to Bush I."
I focused on explaining two things:
1) Why Bush I isn't credited for the Clinton's economy: because the Dems were in the house already during Bush I's time.
2) Why Clinton isn't blamed for Bush II: the Republicans were in charge of the house for a great deal of Clinton's time, plus Bush II's time.
As I understand it, a blank has no projectile - just some kind of wadding? But the other part of the round (used to be brass, don't know if it still is) is still present.
Do these machine guns collect the spent brass, or do they eject it? And if they eject it, where does it end up?
Were these helicopters raining hot brass all over an American city? Sounds like a BAD IDEA (tm)
So the key point I'm taking away here is that we shouldn't blame Democrats for failed policies. It's the Republican's fault for not blocking them, or failing to repeal them afterwards.
That's an ... interesting type of responsibility.
Your assumption that returning to the tax rates of the previous century will break something (when dropping those taxes did nothing at all) is the one that requires further proof.
Errr, no.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maximum_Federal_Tax_Rate_on_Long_Term_Capital_Gains_%281972_-_2012%29.jpg
1980 is associated with the Reagan recovery, and 1996 is roughly when the Internet boom occurred.
But that said, America's voted for high spending, let them have the high taxes and the crappy economy that goes with it.
It's not a good idea, but it's what the people want.
And yes, the republicans have filibustered most attempts at defining our spending over the last 4 years, but there's an act of congress that addresses spending and has budget in the name:
A law with "budget" in the name is not necessarily a budget.
I personally don't care for Obama much, but partisan hacks like yourself are exactly the reason this country is in trouble in the first place. You spend your time worshiping Bush rather than addressing real issues, which forces me to defend Obama rather than deal with his very real flaws. Attack him for something bad (drone strikes, wiretapping...) and we've can try to make progress. But continue to attack him for the mess Bush left and you're just wasting everyone's time.
Worshipping Bush? Where? Partisan hack, speak for yourself.
There's a double standard deployed here, where Bush left a mess for Obama, but Clinton apparently left no mess for Bush (9/11 is completely Bush's fault, huh?). Blaming Bush for the state of everything when we've reached Obama's 2nd term is hilarious when no such standard was applied for Bush.
Asking for objective standards to be applied to both parties is not worship or partisan.
Pointing out the fiscal irresponsibility of the party in power is not partisan. They're in power, they're supposed to be using it in the public interest, which does not include racking up deficits and debt.
Sounds like a major exercise to quell Civil unrest. Cities like Miami, Houston, Oakland, NYC are generally used because they are densely populated and good training for the military.Luckily we still have the 2nd amendement to protect ourselves in a worst case scenario.
Mod the parent post up. That's the point of a whole lot of training and live fire exercises and with manning submarine posts and missile launch posts: getting trained to follow orders and to jump as high as possible without even asking "how high?" when asked to jump. Do you think they want people who are going to wuss out and not turn the keys when they're asked to go through a launch sequence? The majority of soldiers are all good guys, but they expect the guys above them to be good guys, and they are selected and trained on the point of and ability of being able to take orders and execute them. Even though you're supposed to fall on your sword and not carry out illegal orders, there's no time or ability to check on commands in high pressure rapdily changing situations.
.
So, agree that the US is spending way too much money.
However, the guy does have a point, you can't compare mean spending with median income. That only works if the distribution of income is fairly balanced, and in the US that is ANYTHING but true. If you took all the income of all the people making under median income and added it up that would probably only add up to a few percent of the total US income. On the other hand if you took the income of just the top 5% of wage earners that would probably be something like half the US income.
Compare means to means.
Now, you are right that debt and spending aren't the same thing either. That is splitting hairs a bit though - and the debt is larger than the deficit so if anything that error tends to make the problem look worse than it is. US debt isn't anywhere near 100% of GDP.
Oh, and the one thing that nobody has mentioned is that something like a third of the GDP in the US is from the financial industry. That is funny money if you ask me, and here is why it matters. The debt ratio only matters in a world where you're concerned the US can't pay its debts. If everybody just happily assumes the US can never default then the US can borrow however many quintillions of dollars it needs at low interest no matter how much debt it is in and how low the GDP is. It can just borrow more when it need to service the interest. The ratio only matters when people lose confidence in the US government. When that happens how much confidence do you think they'll have in the US financial system? Suddenly 1/3rd of that GDP that everybody is counting on to help keep the government running just vanishes. Factories don't vanish. A mortgage is only worth whatever the house and person it is issued against is worth, and if nobody can afford to buy that house when the owner defaults then it is worthless. That is how huge sums of "money" can just vanish on Wall Street.
Now, you are right that debt and spending aren't the same thing either. That is splitting hairs a bit though - and the debt is larger than the deficit so if anything that error tends to make the problem look worse than it is. US debt isn't anywhere near 100% of GDP.
US GDP: 15~ Trillion.
Total US public debt: 16.4 Trillion.
If you meant the US deficit isn't near 100% GDP, that's nice, but we're still borrowing roughly 40% of our spending. That translates to 66% above our means.
This started off about Helicopters & Machine gun practice over Houston & Miami then got on to tanks. I'm simply amazed.... Nerds & Geeks all warriors now. Better y'all forget about Hollywood. If you want to do some good in the US of A, start getting the idiots y'all put in D.C. out! And while you're at it, stop messing with "Gun Control" & start messing with the Loonies,,,,other than Lawyers, there'S THE Looneytooners, put 'em to work & straighten out the folks who think the solution when your pissed off is to grab a gun!
I attended the commissioning ceremony of the U.S.S. McCambell in San Francisco not long after 9/11. The ceremony took place at a pier next to the SF end of the Bay Bridge. Since McCampbell is named after a Naval Aviator, part of the ceremony included the fly-by of a Navy F-18. During a practice fly-by the day before, the local 9-1-1 phone lines lit up with calls from people thinking the city was under attack or that the plane was trying to run into one of the buildings downtown.
They really don't need to be practicing this kind of thing around civilians. Most of them don't know or understand these things, and they will react badly. Good luck getting a real 9-1-1 call through in those areas.
Imagine the fun it's going to be when armed soldiers start firing blanks and some civilian has no idea what is going on and fires back.
As a Vietnam Vet I take ANY firearm pointed in my direction as a threat and WILL shoot back. BTW I don't shoot blanks.
Really machine guns over head shooting at me would drive my PTSD right off the chart and most likely would shoot back without thinking about it. I would just react.
This has got to be one of the dumbest ideas for a training exercise I've ever heard of in my life.