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Video Game Industry Starting To Feel Heat On Gun Massacres
An anonymous reader writes "While much of the scrutiny following the lone gunman-perpetrated massacres at Aurora, CO and Newtown, CT has fallen on the National Rifle Association and its lobbying efforts against gun control, the shooters in both of the aforementioned incidents seemed to have been encouraged by violence in movies and video games. The New York Daily News' Mike Lupica reported last week that investigators of the Newtown case found a huge spreadsheet in the Lanza home where 20-year old Adam Lanza had methodically charted hundreds of past gun massacres, including the number of people killed and the make and model of weapons used. A Connecticut policeman told Lupica 'it sounded like a doctoral thesis, that was the quality of the research', and added, '[Mass killers such as Lanza] don't believe this was just a spreadsheet. They believe it was a score sheet. This was the work of a video gamer'. In response, the Entertainment Software Association and other lobbyists representing the video game industry have ramped up their Washington lobbying efforts. While still tiny in dollar terms next to the NRA's warchest, this effort seemed to help derail a proposal to fund a Justice Department study of the effects of video games on gun violence, offered as an amendment on the gun control bill by a Republican senator. A spokesman summarized the ESA's position: 'Extensive research has already been conducted and found no connection between media and real-life violence.'"
The New York Daily News' Mike Lupica reported last week that investigators of the Newtown case found a huge spreadsheet in the Lanza home where 20-year old Adam Lanza had methodically charted hundreds of past gun massacres, including the number of people killed and the make and model of weapons used.
Okay, so far none of this has anything to do with video games -- does it? Anyone with their mind set and with extreme determination to accomplish the goal would do the above. Hell, this sounds more like the fantasy football people at my office than the gamers.
A Connecticut policeman told Lupica 'it sounded like a doctoral thesis, that was the quality of the research'
So we should ban doctoral theses? We should halt all research? Yeah, if someone is incredibly determined to do something, they're going to make a science out of it and conduct super extensive research. This is true of anything from baseball card collecting to weightlifting to money management to drug dealing. Name a thing. Anything. Now imagine what someone would do if they took it to an extreme level. Yeah, that's what's going on here.
'[Mass killers such as Lanza] don't believe this was just a spreadsheet. They believe it was a score sheet. This was the work of a video gamer'.
You lost me. This is absolute bullshit. Statements that have more to do with a single person's determination suddenly linked to video games in what should be viewed as illogical stupidity. Oddly this statement can work for anything, weightlifters view their personal records and recorded journals as score sheets. Baseball card collectors view their completed sets and insert sets as score sheets. Farmers that are trying to get the most out of their fields look at their yields like score sheets. I mean, what about sports where you have actual score sheets and stats? Why are we not saying this was the work of an NFL running back or a second degree Taekwondo black-belt?
He did outside research to carry out an incredibly difficult task? Sounds more like your average software documentation than your average video gamer -- time to protect people from research and documentation.
Christ if you want to talk about restricting and banning things, look at the actual tools that he actually used to succeed in carrying out this horrible crime. Where is the logic that violent video games were instrumental in this horrible attack? Where is the link between his research and video games? Because it's a score sheet? Ridiculous!
My work here is dung.
So games are the clearly the first scapegoat. What next?
... spreadsheets kill people.
Ban Excel!
'[Mass killers such as Lanza] don't believe this was just a spreadsheet. They believe it was a score sheet. This was the work of a video gamer'
Ok, that's some of the dumbest shit I've ever heard.
Because the only ones to blame is our collective self. Violent media--TV shows, movies, video games, death metal, etc.--are an expression of our society's extreme unfocused anger, not the cause. Silly politicians and your simple solutions to complex problems.
Score sheets are prior to video games.
Numbers don't lie.
There is no increase.
There is no increase.
There is no increase.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
I always felt the flamethrowers were OP.
I swear they give me mod points to shut me up.
Extensive research shows that the 1994 assualt weapon ban had no link on reducing violent crime either.
In fact research tends to show that the more guns around the lower the crime.
The reality is that these laws are not about reducing crime or saving lives; they're emotional reactions that are to limit our freedom.
...but at least I can keep them from being virtually killed by virtual guns.
If we're going to blame some form of popular media, it should be the news media, in my opinion. Sure, you can argue that maybe video games desensitize people to violence and (apparently) allow people to keep score (ban Parcheesi too, or cribbage), but I would say that the constant coverage of killers and whatnot on the news is what makes it worse. I have no evidence to back this up, but it certainly gives people ideas about what to do or how to do it, as well as showing them that if they do this sort of thing they're going to live on in news coverage long after they're dead. If these are, as often portrayed, lost souls reaching out for something (in a very inappropriate way), what better way to go than to emblazon your name across all news outlets?
Columbine was supposed to be perpetrated with bombs. Many people forget that.
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
This is another knee jerk reaction to these recent mass shootings.
NONE of these shooting would have been prevented with ANY of the legislation that is being proposed by lawmakers. Assault weapons ban, large magazine capacity, even extending background checks to cover the mentally ill. Take a look at every mass shooting we've had recently, and then take a look at all the proposed legislation. Ask yourself: What in these bills would have prevented any of these from happening?
Assault weapons ban: Wouldn't have stopped any of them as all the proposed legislation would grandfather in existing owners.
Large magazine ban: Would also grandfather them in.
Mental health checks: These weapons were stolen from legitimate users or bought legally. You MIGHT have gotten Aurora stopped. But even then, there's a whole lot of "what if's" in that scenario.
No gun control advocate wants to face the harsh reality: In a free and open society, sometimes bad people do bad things, and there's nothing you can do to stop them until it's too late.
How many laws did Lanza break before even firing a shot in Sandyhook?
he murdered his mother, stole her guns, used guns in the commission of a crime, premeditated the murder, had guns on school property, and broke into school property, yet he was not apprehended for any of those crimes.
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
The world spends some $1,000 billion annually on the military. How is this so?
AccountKiller
I propose a 7 macro limit.
refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
Since there were huge numbers of murders and massacres before the gun was invented, there isn't much of a legal case here.
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"if you want to talk about restricting and banning things, look at the actual tools that he actually used to succeed in carrying out this horrible crime."
Ah yes, you don't like your inanimate object blamed, so you want to push the blame off on some other inanimate object.
How about we just blame the person?
Wrong. It's about banning speech. If you could show me that the game disc it was printed on had cadmium on it and that it flaked off and was dangerous to human health, I would advocate banning that particular game disc. If you can prove an inanimate object is the reason people are dying, I'll go along with your ideas on restricting it. What I will not agree to is banning books, movies, music, software or anything that represents an "idea" just because you're afraid of those ideas. If I buy a game and download it online, there is no inanimate object. It's information.
Yeah if all game discs could explode and send a piece of metal or lead into someone's chest, I would be interested in heavily restricting the sale of it. Your apples to oranges comparison of "inanimate objects" could also apply to nuclear weapons, C4, ricin, etc. Have fun living in that society! Comparing guns to information just shows that people don't understand the first amendment's importance as being a civil right and are all for only the second amendment that was written when guns were muskets. You can have all the muskets you want at the level of technology that was present when the second amendment came into effect.
My work here is dung.
People don't know the cause of school shootings, so they're trying to chip away at the methods used to achieve them. Banning guns, video games, heavy metal, etc. all fit into this in that people perceive these as being contributing factors to why people shoot up schools.
But what makes them want to shoot up schools? I'd say there are two issues here:
1. Mental health, especially undiagnosed mental health issues. In this society, all you can do if someone has issues is either pay for them to get treatment, or start a process that's going to get them confined in mental institutions.
2. Media coverage, because if you shoot up a school and get a high enough kill count, you're going to be on the front page of CNN etc. for weeks.
In this society we have an ugly tendency to assume that methods and not inner motivations, including ability and mental health, are important. We think that memorizing facts is more important than having mental ability; we look at whether people are obedient to social norms rather than whether what they're doing is right.
These types of situations suggest our society has some pathological need to avoid looking at our motivations. Perhaps we're afraid we'll find nothing but making money, watching TV, and eating Taco Bell.
I hope not.
This was the work of a video gamer
Fuck you. Your detective work is the work of an imbecile.
"A Connecticut policeman told Lupica 'it sounded like a doctoral thesis, that was the quality of the research', and added, '[Mass killers such as Lanza] don't believe this was just a spreadsheet. They believe it was a score sheet. This was the work of a video gamer'."
Video games don't kill people, guns do. It's the arms manufacturers who should be held to account. Any lawyers out there up for a class action suit.
Yep, video games, spreadsheets, guns - anything but that person who actually committed the crime...
Do you have ESP?
Video games do not disproportionately influence people to kill each other.
How do I know, aside from my 20+ years of gaming experience, and lack of homicidal intentions?
The fact that the largest mass killing in US History predates video games by about 100 years.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
The New York Daily News' Mike Lupica reported last week that investigators of the Newtown case found a huge spreadsheet in the Lanza home where 20-year old Adam Lanza had methodically charted hundreds of past gun massacres, including the number of people killed and the make and model of weapons used. A Connecticut policeman told Lupica 'it sounded like a doctoral thesis, that was the quality of the research', and added, '[Mass killers such as Lanza] don't believe this was just a spreadsheet. They believe it was a score sheet. This was the work of a video gamer'.
Come on, a gamer wouldn't do that kind of research unless they were playing MMOs, or *maybe* a hardcore RPG. If he played shooters he would have just accused the other killers of hacking and tried to build an aimbot in retaliation.
(I am a bad person.)
Visit the
There is no link between violence and video games! If there was a link between violence and video games then there would be a link between other genre's of video games like fantasy and human acts, last time I checked no one ever made a turtle cart and raced around town throwing banana's on the ground. I'm sick of hearing how video games are linked to violence. if your sick enough in the head to go a shoot a school then your going to do it regardless of if you play some james bond or battle field. Maybe instead of blaming the games you could blame everyone else who doesn't step in to help these sick assholes before they kill. How about teachers who turn a blind eye cause violence or parents who don't punish create violence, because I can promise that before the video game could have an effect people have already given up.
Drivers don't kill people, cars do It's the car manufacturers who should be held to account. Any lawyers out there up for a class action suit.
but people are morons. Instead of taking personal accountability for these issues, they blame the video industry. The problem is excess or in this case, who needs a military grade assault weapon? Banning video game isn't the issue. People need to stop making kids they can't raise and be good parents for. And those who have kids, stop using your TV as your baby sitter. Sheesh..
JUST A SPREADSHEET.
But we should ban spreadsheeting, you know, because of the children.
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
I think I have a problem with a cop's ability to judge the quality of research as "PhD quality."
. . . and somehow, they didn't go around tearing hair out, gouging eyes or putting someone's head in a vice.
Because they knew that was TV, and it wasn't a grand idea to try it out on your kid sister.
If video games cause a kid to go postal, there is something else wrong with the kid.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
we blame the lack of mental health services? I don't particularly care about gun control one way or another, but I am tired of people ignoring root causes. In every one of these shootings there have been signs of schizophrenia. Schizophrenia has been shown to be a brain chemistry problem. Fixing it is very, very, very expensive. Even the guy from Aurora (who's dad had lots of money) would be pressed. You need a lot of very specific treatment. So we waste time talking about violent games and guns and anything else but actually paying to identify and treat these people because that would take tax money, and as we all know we're perpetually Taxed To The Max (TM).
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Lanza killed a lot of young children. It's the sort of thing the news media eats up because 1) it involves children which immediately gets the attention of every parent int he country and 2) Lanza had serious emotional issues (and psychological ones too).
It's the type of story no one can ignore and let's face a sad reality. Most people are fucking drama queens. That's why Oprah is successful, why Jerry Springer and Maury Povitch have TV shows. That's why The Young and the Restless has been on TV for 40 friggin years and produced over 10,000 episodes. People or nosey pricks that need to get involved in everything.
Kids see this and realize "Hey, I can get tons of attention by doing the same thing!" Video games aren't directly to blame. Bad, no, piss poor parenting is to blame. Video games have just made kids a hell of a lot better at it. They now know how to frag large groups of people because they do it on CoD and Halo. It's like free training for emotional disturbed people.
The solution isn't easy. You have to first make sure that these kids are being found and helped before they become killers. In almost every case people describe the killers as sweet kids pushed too far by home, school and life stresses. If you know a kid like this fucking help them! In addition to this, start cracking down hard on the little fuckers that are bullying in school. I knew plenty of these assholes growing up. Most of them are now rich and successful because they learned bullying pays off. They climbed the corporate ladder being the pricks their parents raised them to be.
The problems are societal. It's not the guns killing people. It's society eating itself. People blaming it on any one thing need to go fuck themselves. They are part of the problem.
"'[Mass killers such as Lanza] don't believe this was just a spreadsheet. They believe it was a score sheet. This was the work of a video gamer'.
Does this remind anyone else of Jack Thomson?
Bullshit reasoning, and totally fished out of someones ass conclusion.
Do you watch the news in America? All economic discussion regardless of who does it is from a corporate/conservative standpoint of low taxes, few regulations and minimal government intervention (except for bailouts). Yeah, there's some liberal bias in social issues. But what the hell does that matter in the real world. In economics there is no dissenting opinion. What in Gods name do they need to censor? They already have control over everything that matters. If I control your economy I control you. You're not free unless your economically secure.
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We don't want to do anything that may jeopardize our political career by limiting access to firearms, so let's start blaming video games and violent movies. Never mind the fact that this media is available globally and the US seems the be the only country having a sizable problem with firearm related violence or that the firearms flowed freely for so long that we will never be able to "put the toothpaste back into the tube".
Nothing like pretending we are going to solve all our problems legislatively to keep us in office.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
For anyone old enough to remember. D&D was maligned in its glory days as an sinister force that warped its players into becoming suicidal/homicidal recluses unable to distinguish reality from fantasy. There were even "true crime" novels written about people who played the game, and it turned them into murderous psychopaths. This was all total bullshit, of course. Having played numerous RPGs with pen and paper and then later going on to study acting, the very thing these games were maligned for was a grossly simplified (and more rule-based) version of what any theater major would do on a daily basis in a university actor training program. I can't recall an abundance of actors that went on mass killing sprees, even when performing in shows like "Annie Get Your Gun".
It blows my mind that anyone (especially American lawmakers) would seriously consider banning video games before banning guns.
which is a lack of freely available mental health resources. Imagine if the shooter had access to the meds needed to manage the illnesses he had, instead of the equivalent of a football coach yelling at him to Walk It Off. It's expensive though, and they only way to make sure it's universally available is through the gov't (read: Socialized Medicine). Also, you'll have to accept some waste in there. Generally 1 to 3% of the program, but the numbers will look big because the costs are.
On the plus side, you get to have your guns and not get shot.
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Who to blame.. video games, where guns aren't real, or NRA, where guns are real.
Figures. Some people still believe in magical mystical all powerful heavenly deities, others still that the earth is flat.
If this were true, then at least half of the people that play Eve would be sociopathic killers.....actually, this would explain a lot.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
I find it interesting that (a) the noise around Sim City and (b) the stellar success of Minecraft as the "Indie Gem of the Decade" shows that amongst the really invested gamer community there is a HUGE draw towards NON VIOLENT/CREATIVE games that the industry has been lazy to acknowledge. the transient excitement of shooters have their audience. Media may indulge your proclivities but as decades of female non-involvement in the industry have shown (in the past) they cannot create them. You cannot, for instance, expect a really stellar "Ponies with Barbie" game to turn a bunch of gamer guys into cross-dressing Bronies. (which would be awesome...) It can, however, influence the emotional association you have with a given set of behaviors. And it would be totally fatuous to ignore the degree with which media - games and other A/V material - associate heroism with violence.
I don't *blame* the gaming industry any more than the gun industry or the entertainment industry for these shootings.
If it wasn't an AR-15 it would have been a rifle or shotgun or something else. If there were no guns, obviously shootings wouldn't happen but violence would still exist. But that isn't the world we live in, and we make violence "easy". And before that little switch in your brain flips and you think for a second that I am saying we should ban or take away ANYTHING (guns, video games, movies) then you are 100% wrong. More laws are not the answer and are far from it.
What I think needs to change is our attitudes towards violence. OUR attitude. EVERYONE has a part to play in this, and it has to be voluntary. The NRA needs to get their heads out of their asses and realize that providing access to any type of firearm with no restrictions or checks will make it much easier for everyone to have guns - and that includes people who really shouldn't have them. (and yes, I know that determining WHO that is would be nearly impossible). But we have to try. Movies/TV/Entertainment companies (including video gaming industry) needs to understand that they DO glorify violence. We are inundated with violence, from FPS games to movies to TV shows. I don't watch any of them, but there are entire series of TV shows around horribly violent acts (CSI, etc). If you can step back for a second and look at it all holistically - it is very saddening.
I think that Jon Stewart and the Daily Show said it well when they said we have to change our attitude and culture around guns. They likened it to smoking. The message has to change, the overall general attitude towards things. Think about these trials that occur, like the Jodi Arias trial. It was a horrible murder, but let's be honest - in this country and world it happens a lot. But there are shows that are dedicated to follow the trial, to examine it, to discuss it in such desensitizing detail that it is sickening. I really don't get the whole obsession that people have with violence. It's why I quit watching the local news. Over time, I think that it really starts to alter your way of thinking about the world. If any of you have kids, especially boys, then there are nerf guns and foam swords and killing this and that, good guys vs bad guys... again, nothing new. But that can't be our only message that they see, and it is harder and harder to shield them from that. My own kids had to go through a "shooter" drill at school, and that is how they learned about the Newtown shootings. They are in K and 2nd grade!
What I would really like to see is the video gaming industry to take some kind of responsibility for this - not because they are at fault, but because it is the right thing to do. And not by slapping ratings on games, or limiting sales to minors, or anything like that. But by really taking an internal look at what they are producing and self-regulate it. They have the power to influence through what they do, and I think the message being sent is a very harmful one.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Cars are dangerous objects in the hands of the incompetent. This is why anybody who drives a car has to demonstrate a level of competence before they are allowed to use one on the public road. Is it too much to ask the same for gun owners (where use = carry)? Also, do gun owners in the US need to carry insurance? Because I think they should be required to.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
When I was young my parents made sure that if I was going to play video games with violence in them that I understood that it was pure fantasy and disconnected from the real world.
Parents of kids these days see video games more as a baby sitter, and these kids are left to have their mental state molded by what they watch and play rather then having a parent there to help them to realize where fantasy ends and reality begins.
and music, cant forget that (like Charles Manson obsession with the Beatles "Helter Skelter")
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
sure and make it a felony for parents to provide mature rated games to teenagers punishable by years in prison.
most of the hundreds of millions of gamers and violent movie watchers turn into either homicidal maniacs or maiming brawlers. before we had violent movies and game there weren't any mass murders, genocides, wars maimings nor fist fights.
Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a shit about the rules?
-- admitted Zionist Walter Sobchak, gun owner
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
All I have to say is that the first Egyptian Pharaoh was named Q'bert.
Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.
>They now know how to frag large groups of people because they do it on CoD and Halo. It's like free training for emotional disturbed people.
You can't rocket jump in real life. Video games are not realistic. Firing a gun in a video game is nothing like firing a gun in real life. Guns are crude, noisy, horrible, low-tech devices. No matter how much you play a video game, it isn't going to do much for your real-life accuracy. At most, video games can be a form of mental preparation, desensitization or even glorification, but very rarely an actual teaching tool.
Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.
Cars are dangerous objects in the hands of the incompetent. This is why anybody who drives a car has to demonstrate a level of competence before they are allowed to use one on the public road. Is it too much to ask the same for gun owners (where use = carry)? Also, do gun owners in the US need to carry insurance? Because I think they should be required to.
You don't need a license to merely own a car or to operate it on private land. You do need one to drive on public roads.
Most states require a license or permit before one can carry a gun in public. That's not terribly unreasonable. The few that don't require a permit (Vermont, Alaska, Arizona I know for sure, not sure about others) do not have significantly different rates of otherwise-lawful people misusing guns carried in public.
The primary cause of death/injury/property damage for vehicles is accidental. Insurance covers accidental acts, so that makes sense. The primary cause of death/injury/property damage with firearms is intentional and criminal. Insurance does not cover such acts, so having "gun insurance" doesn't make much sense. Most homeowners/renters insurance already covers liability due to accidents that take place on the property. Umbrella liability insurance covers accidents that occurs elsewhere. I wouldn't object to reasonably-priced insurance being part of one's carry permit, but merely for ownership? Not really reasonable.
.... ....
Blaming a gun for someone being shot may be like blaming a fork for making Rosie O'Donnell fat but limiting her access to the cutlery drawer couldn't hurt.
Not weapons kill people, video games kill people.
As Franklin said: "We must hang together, or certainly we shall hang separately."
This infinite loop of "Don't take my guns, take his video games." Follow by: "Don't take my games, take his guns" must stop. Let's look at root causes. Mental health care in the country is a disaster. We did not have mass shootings when we had mental health hospitals. They were shut down because too many people were being committed that should not have been. But now we have people sleeping under bridges because they won't take their meds or don't have access to meds.
Lanza's tharapist reported him as a danger. Her superiors couldn't be bothered to act on that information. Now, what if your child broke an arm paying intramural flag football and student health services said: "Hey, well, I'm just headed out on vacation, can you come back in two weeks?" How would you react? Let's maybe take mental health issues at least as seriously as an ankle sprain, mmkay?? There is somthing called "forced outpatient treatment". You live at home. But... there is follow up to make sure you take your meds every day, or else.
Anyway, to circle back to my point, we have seen a serious errosion of civil liberties in this country. The video gamers and the gun owners are *both* under attack for sensless reasons. We must defend each other, not blame each other, because neither is to blame. Let's focus back on civil liberties, the Bill of Rights, and reject nanny-statism. Together.
"They believe it was a score sheet. This was the work of a video gamer."
What? No; gamers use unlockable achievements. You know who uses spreadsheets? Accountants. This was the work of an accountant.
This is the letter I sent to my elected officials. Each sent me a form letter back in response on their views on the 2nd amendment that made it clear none of them read my letter.
--------
As a parent, I found the events in Sandy Hook Elementary truly frightening. As a society, we should look for solutions to prevent gun violence. However, the discussion I'm seeing in Washington D.C. pointing back repeatedly to video games is not only off the mark, but it is harmful. When we point the finger in the wrong direction, we obfuscate the real issues, preventing them from being addressed. And we punish unfairly.
No one has ever found a link video games and aggression beyond vague correlations that don't stand up to basic logic and reasoning.
Violent crime has actually decreased since 1994 while video games are being played more. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/tables/viortrdtab.cfm
Juvenile crime is actually at a 30-year low.
72% of Americans play video games. There does not appear to be any clear correlation to violent behavior.
Violent video games are just as popular, if not more-so in countries like Japan, Germany, Canada, England, etc. without any correlation of violent behavior.
The talking point that video games give people the courage to commit crimes they wouldn't otherwise could be applied just the same to music, books, movies and television shows. It is flawed logic to begin with, but video games should be viewed the same way as these other mediums. They are self-regulated with ratings to allow parents to make informed decisions about what games/shows/movies, etc. are appropriate for their children.
I served in the Marine Corps. Playing Halo is not the equivalent of military training and I find it laughable that people make such claims.
In the immediate aftermath of the Columbine school shooting, President Clinton and his wife were both quick to blame video games. Hillary Clinton made it a core issue of her tenure in New York, trying repeatedly to pass federal legislation to criminalize the sale of violent video games to kids (a problem that doesn't exist given that each study has shown most retailers will not sell M rated titles to children - http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2008/05/secretshop.shtm). If they had instead focused immediately on the actual issues, perhaps we wouldn't have had as many school shootings since then.
The more time that we waste in Washington D.C. blaming the wrong parties, the more we perpetuate the actual issues. Doing so is disrespectful and a disservice to those who have lost loved ones to such violence.
I am hoping that we can count on you as a leader to steer the discussion to where it needs to go (responsible gun control, mental health advocacy, reasonable security measures).
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
Comics?
Rock 'n' roll?
Books?
Whatever was new and incomprehensible for old people.
Pearl Jam's "Jeremy" music video was blamed for a school shooting. The odd thing is that the video is supposed to be about a suicide, not a murder, but is frequently misinterpreted. I believe they asked the band to testify during the trial as the defense team blamed the band for the murders.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_(song)#Controversy
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
In the reference above, the quote:
'Extensive research has already been conducted and found no connection between media and real-life violence.'
is almost as bad as saying:
"There is no direct link to fast food restaurants available food choices and obesity"
OK, maybe a bit extreme, but if these shooters are practicing and building tactics in spreadsheets and FPS and plotting out tactics, weapons and scoresheets, maybe it's time to have a serious look at them.
I am surprised that nobody has (yet) found a mock-up of any of the target schools made with one of the myriad game editors and level construction tools. Maybe then someone might finally see a more direct connection. Since there is an underground culture built around FPS, there stands to reason there is a database somewhere of potential or past target environments, and "Sample Models" or areas to choose from. . . They might even make for good tactical analysis tools for defending such places, and serving as training tools for professionals in dealing with such an attack.
Sounds almost like a good game foundation:
"Save the local Mall-plex from a handful of Crazed Shooters, while minimizing casualties and property damage! Get high score! Bag more crazies than your buddies! Best score for Least Ammo Expended, Least Property Damage and Most Innocents Saved! Bonus Points if you save the example with a write-up for local authorities to use in the event of a Real Incident!"
Politically Incorrect? Definitely. If it's used to save lives, does that change anything? What happens if (when) it gets into the "wrong hands", though?
I still have a few user-made maps for Unreal Tournament. The Castle of Laputa is one of the more extensive ones, but surely plotting out a local university campus or massive mall-plex is not impossible.
Some people partake in gamification, in which they turn everything into contests. They look to score points in any ways they can. Inspiration for gamification can come from sports, gambling, video games, board games, or whatever. Some people just have really competitive personalities.
When someone is so mentally ill that they're willing to kill random children, that is a problem. Combine that with gamification, and you're got a really big problem. But both of these are problems that should be addressed on the mental health front.
In this particular case, he may have actually been inspired by a video game. But that doesn't mean video games are bad. Several killers have cited "Catcher in the Rye" as an influence. That doesn't make books inherently evil.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
A good start would be not to refer to those with mental illness as "whackjob crazies".
A US based militia in a conflict against the government could last as long as Afghanistan or Iraq wars. These wars were/are wars of attrition. They last until the aggressor decides to leave.
How long would an individual last? Hard to say, not very long in direct combat. But our wars are no longer direct with large armies meeting on the field.
How long would such a war last? Until the government decides to stop it.
The key question: Have we killed all of the insurgents and terrorists? No. It's a war of attrition, it goes on forever until one side decides to give up (people who live in the war zone will never give up, something the US has a problem understanding in my opinion).
Winning isn't possible, other than "The only winning move is not to play" (Wargames).
BlameBillCosby.com
I strongly agree. If you read the linked article (I saw it last week), one of the cops even said that we should stop referring to these people as "Mass Murderers" and start calling them "Glory Killers". Too bad that the media companies wouldn't agree to limit their coverage. Maybe use the name and the picture once or twice. Then, a policy of no more pictures and referring to him only as "the killer" or "the (child) murderer".
No. Instead, the name gets used hundreds of times on national TV, the picture is shown on every TV station, news web site and major print publication, giving these scum EXACTLY the infamy they are trying to achieve. I'd put MUCH more blame on the MainStream Media than I would on video games or guns or music.
I can see how this is frustrating.
However, what I'm talking about here is more that we don't view mental health care as something that can occur outside a casual context or a criminal context.
The casual context is having $200/hour to spend on your psychologist for what's basically mediated discussion.
The criminal context is that the only other option is to declare someone a threat to society and basically imprison them.
I don't know how the funding works out, but there needs to be something that's more like a hospital stay, but without the stigma of being called crazy and without the possibility of law enforcement involvement.
As far as how to pay for health care, it seems complicated: the more we regulate and socialize, the more expensive it gets. One solution is to regulate much less and see if we can simply lower the cost to the point where people can pay for this. Another is to encourage pharmaceutical companies to continue providing low-cost generic versions of their own drugs to people with less than buckets of money. Something tells me that this one is a "think outside the box" type issue.
I strongly believe that gun control is part of the solution to reduce this kind of violance without affecting hunters and other hobbiest. The other more important task is to get better support to those in need of mental help. I know bullies leave a mark especially if your one to treat others with respect but then get pushed around by the local morons.
Anyone that's played a lot of EVE Online or The Witcher could be forgiven for mistaking a spreadsheet for a video game.
That reminds me of this essay:
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/sorry-but-your-soul-just-died-1276509.html
However, I'd say there's a few counter-arguments.
1. We can become less trivial. Our culture encourages triviality through consumerism, or individualism, or egoism or something like that. Narcissism? It's an -ism, and it means we're basically "amusing ourselves to death" as Neil Postman says. We could fix that.
2. Compassion. I imagine most people think dogs are trivial. I love dogs. They are pure-hearted. Compassion encourages us to not worry so much about triviality.
3. Discover new worlds. There are other planets, new challenges, possibly other dimensions to explore. Maybe we're just bored and underchallenged, like students at public high schools?
Maybe not as impressive as I hoped it would be when I first thought of this message, but there it is.
If someone would consider making a video game about the event, with its own devil-worshipping heavy metal soundtrack, I might consider it.
Actually, I wouldn't. Pointless tragedy crushes my soul. I'd be more likely to fake one to mock the media circus than actually pull off a mass shooting. School shootings especially always seem to me like the emotional equivalent of a truckload of dead kittens.
For video games to be a cause the shooter has to have a basic flaw. They have to be unable to tell the difference between reality and fantasy.
To be unable to distinguish between reality and fantasy is insanity. That is the cause of the violence not some silly game.
Every new art form goes through a blame period. Remember when rock and roll was blamed for causing people to rape and kill?
I find being offended by me offensive.
Some people will commit atrocities for fame and attention.
CNN gives fame and attention to people who commit atrocities.
The Connecticut policeman mentions an interesting detail. Apparently, Lanza replaced the magazine of his rifle every time, before entering another room, even if the magazine in the rifle was not empty yet. The policeman suggested that he had learned this trick by playing first person shooters. While this would be difficult to prove, it sounds plausible. Playing FPSs may not have made Lanza a killer, but might have made him a somewhat more effective one.
That said, while I do not condone gratuitous violence in video games (or other entertainment media for that) I do not believe censure would do any good (news media covering this kind of events probably are much more harmful); I also believe that more effective controls over the acquisition and possession of firearms would be appropriate, regardless of these tragic events (the existing rules are way too easy to circumvent), but I do not really believe this would stop a determined psychopath.
While we are at this, I also believe better mental health services should be put in place, also regardless of these events, nevertheless I expect most mass shooters would just "fly under the radar" (I can not find it right now, but someone pointed out that, according to current criteria, most of the mass shooters involved in recent episodes would *not* qualify for compulsory psychiatric treatment *before* they went on a killing spree.)
So... does anything work? Can we "fix" this just by changing some rules? I would say no. Rules cannot fill in for the loss of moral values.
As another poster mentioned, this is society eating itself. Sometimes I really wonder whether it is still redeemable.
In the long run we are all dead. - John Maynard Keynes (1883 - 1946)
with Science! Jokes aside, it still all comes down to money. Research can be done on brain chemistry and how the brain functions. But it's expensive and it isn't profitable. You can't get companies to do it. It takes gov't action because you need a body that's not interested in short term goals. You need somebody that can think 50 to 100 years out, and that can absorb billions in waste with little negative impact.
That said, it's still an easier problem to solve than guns in America. Mostly because you can throw money at it and solve it. You can't say the same for gun control. For one thing, politically it's a loss. You've got millions of single issue voters who'll do anything to keep their guns. For another you've got too many guns in the wild to easily control them and too much boarder to keep smugglers out (although that's something we could throw money at to solve). Mostly it's a losing issue. Guns are a part of too many American's lives. They turn into a voting block at the drop of a hat, and they'll support any policy whatsoever so long as it preserves their guns. If you really push gun control you'll not only lose, but you'll see a lot of other nasty legislation from the bastards that those 'gun nuts' elect just to save their guns.
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"There are ugly things in this world. They will express themselves no matter what."
It's defeatism. You've already given up. You know, the world doesn't have to be an awful place. There's really no reason for it to be. Instead of looking and the world and saying it can only get worse (conservatism) try looking at the world and saying it will get better (progressive).
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Put the blame where it lies: at the feet of the news media. Months of talking about each mass shooting makes the shootings sound like grand evil achievements. The news media does it to get eyeballs for ad sales, but the result is that screwed up attention-seeking crazy people reenact them to be "immortalized". The news needs to stop feeding to trolls.
Its always about video games. Video games this, video games that. But what about TV?
I have kids, and honestly, the content of most young programs are just shocking, when you think twice about it. They have removed all sexual innuendo because that would make fundamentalist Christians choke on their breakfast, but the thing is full of ninjas slicing one another with blades of all sort, beating up, etc. Violence is always the solution to pretty much every problem thrown at the characters.
And if we just consider Hollywood production and its love affair with gun and explosions...
But then, it must be the video games fault. Mmmkay.
"A Connecticut policeman told Lupica 'it sounded like a doctoral thesis, that was the quality of the research', and added, '[Mass killers such as Lanza] don't believe this was just a spreadsheet. They believe it was a score sheet. This was the work of a video gamer'." A great many middle Americans distrust and fear computers. They don't understand them, they don't want to work with them, and they distrust people who do. We all know and have worked with people who have this type of attitude. Then we couple that attitude to middle America's dislike of games. Many Americans feel games are for children, adults shouldn't play games they have to work. The fact that these same people spend their leisure time vegetating in front of a TV watching a paid entertainer play a game does not count. You see that is not playing because "playing" is not an adult activity and they are adults. In these people's mind playing computer games are not only irresponsible it is somehow wrong and abnormal. So here we have a cop investigating a mass murder in which the suspect used a computer, this cop sees a spreadsheet which reminds him of a game he connects computer, abnormal evil, and something game like and comes to the conclusion that the suspect must be a computer gamer. What is ironic about the whole thing is that the countries with the highest percentage of games tend to have the lowest murder rates.
just not yet. But one thing we have learned in the last 50 years: The human brain is a machine. A very, very complex machine. But a machine like anything else. With enough time and effort we can understand it. In our society time/effort == money.
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The media definitely has played a role in the recent mass shootings. I've heard it said that modern terrorism didn't happen until after the advent of mass media. I believe that the media is making poor choices "glamorizing" these events, but it's about impossible to craft a law stopping is and still maintain a free press.
Competition Good, Monopoly Bad.
'[Mass killers such as Lanza] don't believe this was just a spreadsheet. They believe it was a score sheet. This was the work of a video gamer'
No, this was the work of a crazy person.
Gun owners always want to be responsible. So why is contributory negligence never used in gun crime? For example--who owned the gun used by the 17 and 15 year-old who shot the baby in GA? If the gun owners that allowed their weapons to be used in crime where held accountable--we would see far less careless storage of guns. i.e. Just because a gun is stolen--the gun owner is still responsible because their inability to secure the weapon allowed for the theft.
In addition, there is the link between gun ownership and suicide--the majority of all gun deaths are self inflicted. How about periodic mental health screenings for all gun owners? Maybe keep them from hurting themselves and others on the way out...
How does this analogy hold up? The gun crimes that occur every year, do you think the majority of them are the result of inexperience, recklessness, and bad judgment, or do you think they're the result of the deliberate intent of criminals?
quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.
Does the government make you have Libel insurance before you can own a printer, blog, or slashdot account? After all you could write something offensive against someone and get sued. You should have insurance for that.
Having to have mandatory gun insurance would meet the same fate as having to have mandatory libel insurance for buying a printer: both interfere with one's constitutional rights.
On another note you can buy Self-Defense liability insurance from the NRA. Provides reimbursement of up to $250k for civil trials and $50k for Criminal with a lot of caveats. I carry the policy incase I'm ever in a situation outside of my home. My state law is pretty clear: if they are in your home and not supposed to be: shoot 'em. It's justified against criminal and you're absolved of any potential civil liability as well under that Castle Doctrine. But if I was walking on the street and I was forced to defend myself, well different story.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
Politicians have to look like they're doing SOMETHING if they want to get re-elected. It doesn't matter so much how effective legislation is as long as they tried.
Banning video games, hi-cap mags or mean-looking black rifles won't stop those bent on violence from hurting others.
Competition Good, Monopoly Bad.
Hey, I wasn't born with a college fund, and my only way up is the military, and all my politicians are owned, but I'm free!
Excellent points tovarish! Let's go forth and round up the Kulaks, and bring about the dictatorship of the proletariat.
I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
How much do we have to blame ourselves, as a nation, for saying through our actions that it's OK to solve problems with violence?
We don't like murders so we put them to death.*
We don't like traitors so we put them to death.*
We don;t like rapists so we put them to death.*
We don't like serious misconduct by solders. There are 14 capital offenses in the US military.**
We don't like terrorism suspects so we kill them with drone strikes.
We don't like the actions of a country, so we invade them.
Aren't we sending a message in real life, versus a fictional portrayal in movies or video games, that it's OK to kill people that you're fed up with?
* varies by jurisdiction
** some only during a time of war, not sure if wars undeclared by Congress count
Competition Good, Monopoly Bad.
And if we took reasonable precautions like background checks and limited magazine size to no more than 10 rounds, it would greatly inconvenience people that want to do this.
No. When going up against unarmed civilians it does not matter whether you have 30 round or 10 round magazines. Magazine swaps are so fast that potential victims won't have time to flee or defend themselves. Very sad, but true. The large capacity magazines only matter when going up against police and military and laying down suppressive fire to keep their heads down while team mates maneuver.
Just because you're an idiot, doesn't make it any less reasonable to introduce moderate gun regulations. But, then again, the Australians banned people from owning guns privately who didn't have a reason, self defense wasn't an acceptable reason, and they haven't had a single mass murder in all those years.
And Switzerland has many hundreds of thousands of actual assault rifles and so called assault weapons in private hands. Perhaps it is not the guns themselves. Background checks, proper training and storage ... these are things that we should do. However banning rifles and magazines, that is just security theatre.
UK rape rate : 28.8 per 100K, USA, 27.7 per 100K , BUT UK 5 years ago was 23 per 100K USA was 32 per 100K. So there are more variation between years than there are between coutnry.
:386 per 100K (that include a lot more than murder) if you remove all crime where no injury happened, particularly only when hospitalisation or hospital visit is required or doctor visit as violent crime You get less than 250 per 100K.
USA burglary was 702 out of 100K I can't find a statistic for UK one say 600K burglary total population is 63 milliom so that's 952. The problem is that the crime definition do not match.... Example : look at violent crime the one the owner attempt to protect from : If you look at aggravated assault statistic the picture is more differentiated USA
This is pretty jsutified as FBI only count rape, manslaughter, robbery , and aggracated assault as violent crime , MUCH LESS categories than the UK do count.The British definition includes all âoecrimes against the personâ including simple assaults, all robberies, and all âoesexual offensesâ and that make a lot of difference.
This is highly misleading to look at simple statistic, and in fact for the home theft, if you dig down you will find out that a LOT is n ot even reported in the US, and a lot more crime are considered burglary in the Uk for insurance purpose. Same for violent crime.
UK is not more violent that the US and you are far more likely to get in a violent crime as homeowner in the US than UK , and the reason is simple : gun.
Most states that issue carry permits have a training requirement.
If you take a dispassionate look at the statistics, those with carry permits are far less likely to hurt you accidentally (or on purpose, for that matter) than police. As a friend just said, "If you want to shoot random people and cars without cause, why not just join LAPD and do it legally?"
Police in the USA are involved in violent crime (and property crime) at *exactly* the same rate as the general population. Carry permit holders, however, have about 1/20 the rate of involvement in crime compared to the general population. See the FBI stastitics.
As to insurance... which other constitutionally enumerated right requires that you buy insurance before you exercise the right? It's not a small point -- people of low income tend to live in bad neighborhoods because that can't afford the rent for a better place. A tax or insurance requirement on any means of protecting one's life falls disproportionately on those that need self-protection the most. Or, maybe you are saying that you can't have a license to write a blog unless you buy libel/slander insurance?
http://www.fas.org/blog/secrecy/2013/03/mass_shootings.html
go ahead.. triple the number if you want. Then divide by how many people have lived since 1983. More people have probably doing home depot repair projects.
No but they are a good portion of it.
Really? Then it's strange how millions of people can play violent video games and yet very few people go on killing sprees.
Kids emulate what they see, hear and experience.
But it's unlikely that they'll go murder someone, regardless of the circumstances. Kids are also capable of separating what is obviously fiction from reality, and the ones that aren't can be educated by their parents; it doesn't take much intelligence to realize the difference.
Kids need to play, exercise, be social with other kids, learn, explore and so on.
Thanks for your opinion.
In no possible way are games a benefit to kids.
They're fun to some people; there's a benefit.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
Lanza is a copycat killer. He killed children because Anders Breivik killed students. Anders Breivik killed students for political reasons. (the students were at a polictical camp) Also trying to find a reason for something a crazy person does is foolish. A metally ill person may not have rational reasons for thier actions. I have a relative who had phycotic episodes before thier doctor found the correct medication. I found my relative walking down the middle of the street with a butter knife. They were on their way to a friends house to convice them to stop smoking. Brain chemistry, hormones, "Don't Smoke" propaganda, and lots of confusion is what lead to that incident. My family doesn't show violent media to this person. No guns, sharp things, or alchohol is kept in the house. (medicine locked up)
You can thank the ACLU for making it nearly impossible to have the mentally ill commited.
I know, who cares about petty things like 'rights'? What we need is more safety!
But really, how is it the ACLU's fault?
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
Because on the other side nobody is putting any heat on the gun industry because they seem to be making record profits.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
...and there was no one else left to lift a finger.
At the time the second amendment was written to reload a gun you had to spend a good minute reloading it with a very long stick. I support your right to have as many manually-reloaded muskets as you want, as the Founder's intended!
Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.
Driving a car is not protected by the Bill of Rights. I have no problem with requiring drivers licenses and registration on cars, but if an amendment to the Bill of Rights said I have an unalienable right to drive a car then those regulations would be limiting my rights and would be unconstitutional. The Bill of Rights trumps all other laws and regulations, period.
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
and being replaced by neuroscience. Eventually we'll look back at psychologists the same way we look back at witch doctors & mystics now: At best well meaning and misguide people without enough information.
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My level of politeness is in inverse proportion to the body count.
I've been saying it for years, MS Office is evil. Seriously though, the fact that this guy was shouted down is a "good news" story, it's rare evidence of sanity in the US political system.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
It boggles my mind that no one bothered to link to an actual high score chart.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
but with your dinky M16 look alike and little or no training, it's not going to be you. This isn't Red Dawn, and if a bunch of weekend warriors go up against trained soldiers, they lose. Focus more on the freedoms that matter (your economic freedom, meaning your economic security) and less on something the just doesn't matter anymore.
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Eu tenho sites sobre jogos, curto muito um dos meus sites: http://www.arctic-combat-brasil.com/
If those maniacs didn't have access to firearms, they would have shattered PS3 disks and used the shards to stab people to death. Ban violent videogames now!
We have the most militant police officers in the world. If the state wants to reduce wrongful death, they should look at the man in the mirror first. Guns are tools for killing. And we strap them to people we call "civil servants." Clearly, our issues with violence are much deeper than our legislation.
He obviously saw Money Ball and was channeling the character Peter Brand.
"The Adobe Updater must update itself before it can check for updates. Would you like to update the Adobe Updater now?"
You make it sound like schizophrenia is actually a 'fixable' problem, that it can be cured reliably.
There's actually a growing body of evidence that common parasite Toxoplasmosis can cause schizophrenic symptoms in humans. For those people for whom their schizophrenia is due to Toxoplasmosis infection, treatment with drugs designed to control Toxo makes their schizophrenia go away.
This doesn't cover everyone with schizophrenia, but it is a step towards a reliable cure of some forms of the disease.
Links for the interested.
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Um, Japan's rate is 0.4 compared to the US's rate of 4.8. Your own link shows that ... yet, of course you cherry pick your statistics and go on about suicides because that fits your narrative of who's more violent ... how is this drivel modded up?
Japan is also a completely different type of society, such that comparing Japan and the US is like comparing apples and oranges.
That's not a knife, THIS is a knife...
Sorry sorry, I had to.
Also "Organized crime"? You mean the Nation of "Australia"? Bunch of convicts and criminals! :)
I kid I kid!
Can't say I disagree all that much on any point.
However from a Canadian perspective:
Most guns used in crime: Handguns.
Most handguns used in crime: illegally obtained.
Most illegally obtained handguns: From the US.
So we have a bit of a strange dichotomy up here where due to our gun control laws, obtaining a legal gun for a Canadian citizen is a bit hard. For criminals, obtaining an illegal US gun is not as hard as it could be. Which makes it harder to make laws up here regarding guns, as proponents will point this fact out. Perhaps we need to do a better job preventing smuggling, but then again we have the biggest border, which the most travel and trade of anyplace.
Many Canadians are getting pretty weary of the US ordering this or that law in their own interests, while at the same time watching Canadian citizens getting killed on the nightly news using US guns smuggled into our country and anytime someone says anything about it, its all "think of the unarmed children!"
As an aside I recall seeing a TV program that traced most of the Mexican cartels guns back to the US as well.
So not exactly something that only affects the US in a vacuum. The US is effectively spluging guns all over its neighbors, and I doubt Canada or Mexico really appreciate it much.