Slashdot Mirror
Bradley Manning Wants To Live As a Woman
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Reuters reports that Bradley Manning, the U.S. soldier sentenced to 35 years in military prison for the biggest breach of classified documents in the nation's history, says he is female and wants to live as a woman named Chelsea. 'As I transition into this next phase of my life, I want everyone to know the real me. I am Chelsea Manning, I am a female,' Manning, 25, said in the statement read by anchorwoman Savannah Guthrie on NBC News' "Today" show. 'Given the way that I feel and have felt since childhood, I want to begin hormone therapy as soon as possible,' Manning said. 'I also request that starting today you refer to me by my new name and use the feminine pronoun.' A psychiatrist, Navy Reserve Captain David Moulton, testified during Manning's trial that Manning suffered from gender dysphoria, or wanting to be the opposite sex, as well as narcissism and obsessive-compulsive disorder."
Will they really provide that in prison?
So do many Slashdotters and yet who are we to judge?
No offense to transpeople, but why is this on Slashdot? I don't give a fuck if he wants to be a man or a woman in jail.
Didn't see this one coming.
is SO clearly behind this.
As I transition into this next phase of my life, I want everyone to know the real me. I am Anonymous Cowardess, I am a female.
After what he... er, she's done for her country, I'll call her the damn Queen of England if it makes her happy.
Sounds like they thoroughly broke him. First apologizing and then this. Doesn't look like he is going for insanity (trial is over), seems like he got insane for his time in solitary.
Not saying that because he self identifies as a woman (something that happens to some people naturally) but because of the timing of the whole matter.
His mangina is going to get a workout in Leavenworth.
Looks like an update to the title is in order.
Getting popcorn - I fully expect this discussion to be mature and informative.
Here we come.
Or the torture (solitary confinement) really got to him.
Third possibility, 35 years in the brig, he wants to go to woman's prison and be able to bang some chicks.
Is this a joke?
An American Mata Hari. had to be the hard way!
What the hell did the MPs do to him?
"A psychiatrist, Navy Reserve Captain David Moulton, testified during Manning's trial that Manning suffered from gender dysphoria, or wanting to be the opposite sex, as well as narcissism and obsessive-compulsive disorder."
Or maybe they drugged him up? Snuck something in his food?
As a G in the LGBT community, genuinely, I wish Chelsea as safe a transition as possible in those conditions. Probably won't be easy and it sucks that there will be a LOT of negativity thrown her way.
I didn't realize slashdot was in the business of character assassination. On the day of his sentencing, of course. Why is this even here?
You'll never be as voluptuous and sensual as the brazilian trannies that start in childhood.
As I transition into this next phase of my life, I want everyone to know the real me. I am Lazy Coward, I am not working overtime. Given the way that I feel and have felt since childhood, I want to switch to a 4 day, 2 hour per day work schedule as soon as possible. I also request that starting today you stop calling me outside of work and allow me to work in an office with no management.
You gotta admit this guy had balls.
Do you ever get the feeling we're all just getting trolled? Trolled so, so very hard?
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Who cares if he wants to live as a woman, a man or a chipmonk?
This inane crap belongs on Digg not here.
n/c
Self-identifying as a woman is not a sign of insanity. There are quite a number of transgendered people in the world today, from young to old, pre-op or post-op, leading perfectly normal lives.
While we used to refer to the condition as Gender Identity Disorder in the DSM-IV, it was replaced with Gender Dysphoria in the DSM-V because we now don't think of it as a disorder. In fact, the general "treatment" is not to make the mind match the body, but to make the body match the mind. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder .
Koans and fables for the software engineer
There would be limitless fodder for "In Soviet Russia ..." quips
The idea is that sex and gender are not the same thing - one is, as you said, biological, and the other is psychological. Yes, in the end it's all biology, but you can't argue that gender dysphoria is not a real phenomenon. So, the question you have to ask, is what's the best way to treat this condition? Is it to say, "Deal with it, you were born this, you are this," or, is it to give them therapy and open the door to procedures that do, in fact, seem to lessen the psychological suffering of such individuals?
Saul: A man has the right to change his name to vatever he vants to change it to. And if a man vants to be called Chelsea, godammit this is a free country, you should respect his vishes, and call the man Chelsea!
Morris: His mamma call him Bradley, imma call him Bradley.
Saul: Then you're a putz. All of you are putzes. They should change the sign outside from My-T-Sharp to 'ze Three Putzes.
It is unfortunate that it had to come under such circumstances, but given that they have taken your freedom away, at least you can be the person you are. Congratulations Chelsea.
(For the commenters who feel this is a result of the solitary - he was experiencing dysphoria prior to the whole affair. Their are photos of him presenting female from prior to the Wikileaks scandal)
UPDATE Slashdot.headline SET headline_txt=REPLACE(headline_txt, '/Bradley\ Manning', 'Chelsea\ Manning ') where headline_author != 'cmdrtaco';
and i guess on a personal level, i have to start saying, "a prime example of a capitalist dictatorship exercising its ability to persecute political prisoners is the incarceration of Chelsea Manning"
Good people go to bed earlier.
Yeah, this was a bad idea. Unfortunately choosing to make such a public statement on this will basically give the highly vocal Conservatives some more ammunition to use against him, basically in their eyes invalidating the stuff she leaked. While we all know that it's got absolutely nothing to do with anything, that's never stopped the highly vocal Conservative minority from making a big deal of this stuff.
The same people who were screaming for him to be hanged will now feel smug in their self-righteousness and will start finding a way to correlate this gender change with an ability and desire to fabricate the leaked information. This will then invalidate this entire process in the eyes of these people... and believe me they make a lot of noise.
... distraction bro.
"Loretta"
Didn't work for Klinger in MASH, won't work for him either.
ok, if I were a major conspiracy theorist (sadly, I'm just a pragmatic cynic poser) I might find it suspicious that this comes out after Assage (to whom the docs were sent) gets accused of regret rape... yes, Manning's been convicted but how out there would it be to wonder if he got offered country club prison (or something like that) vs "Ben Dover - nice to meet you!" if he did this?
it just seems suspiciously convenient to the us govt that the two highest profile figures around all the leaks/revelations turn out to be {GASP!} "sex offenders"! (yes, I know being trans isn't/shouldn't be a crime but in the pea-sized brains of people who think that way they're effectively synonymous). either at least one of these stories (this or Assage/Sweeden) is BS or Obama is the luckiest SOB to ever live...
Tell that to androgen insensitive women who are xy.
You are no doctor nor a judge on the human condition.
Stop it. Just stop it.
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
To get out of hard labor.
Ironically, he will be locked up with guys who have friends (or they themselves) were put in danger by Mannings actions.
Also, I guess he has to change his last name also.
Let him serve his time in a female prison, to acknowledge him and his statements. Believe you me, a decision like that would instantly make most of the "politically correct" leftist people who have been spreading cheeze over this news go "Hm? Female prison? Weird.", clearly showing how superficial their actions and statements following this news really are. Put it to a poll, and even in the #FreeChelsea crowd the real opinion would be clear.
Yeah, let's see if we can change all the black people to white. It'll end their suffering, right? Why don't we treat people to live in the real world, and be who they are, instead of something else?
and it's not going to help Manning.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
I read about this on WaPo about half an hour ago, where I noticed they did an incredibly intelligent and thoughtful thing: they disabled comments. Now if only that were possible on /.
Good friend of mine is transgender, this should never even make the news. Transgender is a mental disease that should first of all never take away from the person, and second of all never be used as an excuse to justify someone's behavior.
Bradley Meaning's behavior had jack to do with being Transgender and bringing his mental illness into this is a shows a refusal to take responsibility and will only further alienate society from people who are transgender and have not committed Bradley Manning's crimes.
Well that explains why he couldn't keep a secret...
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Why is the gender choice or alignment or preference or whatever of Manning even relevant to any of the current discussions, and why of all things it it relevant here? Sigh....
Associated Press — FORT MEADE, Md. — The text of U.S. Army Pfc. Bradley Manning’s statement that will be sent to the president, as read by defense attorney David Coombs following Manning’s sentencing Wednesday, below:
--------
Manning's statement, in full:
The decisions that I made in 2010 were made out of a concern for my country and the world that we live in. Since the tragic events of 9/11, our country has been at war. We’ve been at war with an enemy that chooses not to meet us on any traditional battlefield, and due to this fact we’ve had to alter our methods of combating the risks posed to us and our way of life.
I initially agreed with these methods and chose to volunteer to help defend my country. It was not until I was in Iraq and reading secret military reports on a daily basis that I started to question the morality of what we were doing.
It was at this time I realized that (in) our efforts to meet the risk posed to us by the enemy, we have forgotten our humanity. We consciously elected to devalue human life both in Iraq and Afghanistan. When we engaged those that we perceived were the enemy, we sometimes killed innocent civilians. Whenever we killed innocent civilians, instead of accepting responsibility for our conduct, we elected to hide behind the veil of national security and classified information in order to avoid any public accountability. In our zeal to kill the enemy, we internally debated the definition of torture. We held individuals at Guantanamo for years without due process. We inexplicably turned a blind eye to torture and executions by the Iraqi government. And we stomached countless other acts in the name of our war on terror.
Patriotism is often the cry extolled when morally questionable acts are advocated by those in power. When these cries of patriotism drown out any logically based dissension, it is usually the American soldier that is given the order to carry out some ill-conceived mission.
Our nation has had similar dark moments for the virtues of democracy — the Trail of Tears, the Dred Scott decision, McCarthyism, and the Japanese-American internment camps — to mention a few. I am confident that many of the actions since 9/11 will one day be viewed in a similar light.
As the late Howard Zinn once said, “There is not a flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.”
I understand that my actions violated the law; I regret if my actions hurt anyone or harmed the United States. It was never my intent to hurt anyone. I only wanted to help people. When I chose to disclose classified information, I did so out of a love for my country and a sense of duty to others.
If you deny my request for a pardon, I will serve my time knowing that sometimes you have to pay a heavy price to live in a free society.
I will gladly pay that price if it means we could have a country that is truly conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all women and men are created equal.
don't drop the soap
Stuff that matters
Kind of an absurd turn of phrase, isn't it? It's a bit like saying that someone "suffers from" being an asshole.
(Whether Manning deserves to be called a narcissist at all... that is, of course, a whole other question).
Hey, it worked for Michael Jackson, who am I to judge?
Am I the only one who thinks there's a big possibility that this is just a desperate move in order to gain sympathy disguising himself as a member of an oppressed demographic?
Not that I have any objection, if I were in his shoes I'd be desperate enough to try it too.
unless they involve prison. Am I politically correct yet?
Speaking as a straight, cisgendered ( transgender people's word for "normal" ), white, and quite handsome man.........please lets not make fun of Manning.
He is a human being, some who consider to be a hero, who just happens to have problems.
Bradley Womanning?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
jackson tried it right?
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Private Cowboy: He was jerkin off ten times a day.
Private Eightball: No shit. At least ten times a day.
Private Cowboy: Last week he was sent down to Da Nang to see the Navy
head shrinker, and the crazy fucker starts jerking off in the
waiting room. Instant Section Eight. He was just waiting for his
papers to clear division.
I'd ask to be put in a woman's jail as well.
So is Manning still gay? And if so, is she a lesbian?
Whatever he/she calls him/herself.
Sex is biologically determined.
Androgen insensitivity syndrome
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Narcissistic Personality Disorder is narcissism taken to unhealthy extremes; it describes only about 1 percent of the population. One might argue that "being an asshole" affects a far, far larger percentage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder
Koans and fables for the software engineer
First rule of political correctness and sensitivity on Slashdot: Never say anything bad about a conservative. They will get offended and whine. And they have mod points. A lot of them.
you shall now be referred to as .\
ambiguous Reuters report referencing a statement from the NBC Today pseudo-news talk show, that has very little now to do with tech? where are your standards now?
I read about this on WaPo about half an hour ago, where I noticed they did an incredibly intelligent and thoughtful thing: they disabled comments. Now if only that were possible on /.
The right thing here for slashdot would have been to not feature this story at all. It isn't about technology in any meaningful way. This was run just to draw eyeballs in and get people excited in the discussion. Being as pretty well nobody here is discussing the technical aspects of what Manning has been sentenced to 37 years in jail for, it seems to have worked well for its intended purpose.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Typical over dramatic pillow biter looking for sympathy and attention. Can't wait until he's out of the news, but not likely as the gay agenda is top priority for the media.
...you supposedly got something against raping children?
Sounds to me like the talk of a wannabe rapist of little boys who lacks the balls to put his dick where his mind is, so he's hiding it from everyone and most of all from himself.
And all the hiding of your true nature is making you suicidal, which is why you're projecting your wish to murder the part of yourself you find to be "dirty" onto imaginary child rapists in imaginary prisons inside your mind.
They worked him over really good. Not only did he say he was sorry about doing anything and everything...
They came up with the perfect way to discredit him forever.
And make what he did seem like just yet another 'crazy' thing. Nobody will ever take him serious again.
Ahhh american freedom. The finest punishment we can think up.
no offense to Bradley Manning, but he kinda looks like a woman in the photos that I've seen already. dude just needs some makeup and a skirt. not trying to stereotype, just saying
With this timing, I had to re-read the headline in my RSS reader 3 times to be sure it wasn't from The Onion. Apparently this isn't new information but it was the first I'd heard of it.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Also bullshit.
Gender reassignment surgery helps someone "be who they are", and works very well.
If it helps, you can think of gender reassignment in the same way as a prosthetic for people born with missing legs or arms. Those people could "live in the real world" with their disability, or we can give them a way to achieve what they desire.
As for your "black/white" example: most people with dark skin *like* who they are, *like* their skin color, and don't see themselves as "suffering" directly because of it. Rather, their suffering is because some racist whites are *making* them suffer needlessly. It's a different thing entirely.
Koans and fables for the software engineer
When the state stoops to digging up old 'dirt' on people, you can rest assured that they are truly afraid of them/really DO have something to hide. This only re-affirms Manning's position.
Also, this was taken from a private conversation with a doctor. This is low, low, low.
Anybody who falls for this is a complete fool who deserves to live in a fascist surveillance state.
He'll be the pie.
He must have gone through some intense brain zapping and heavy drugs to start thinking and wanting to do this.
So HE wants to be a SHE.... This is just the latest manifestation of HIS delusional quest for self importance.
HE is a convicted felon looking at 35 years of confinement crimes that HE wants to make into something other than what they are. If HE wants to pay for HIS treatments, HE can, AFTER he gets out. If HE wants *me* to pay for them while HE rots in jail, HE can take a hike.
I don't know if HE is trying to build an insanity defense and try to get his sentence reduced, but HIS whole mind set is NUTS. Maybe not at the "HE'S insane" level, but surely at the "HE'S NUTS!" level. You know the type, not totally insane, but they sure have a foot on that side of the fence. This GUY needs to shut HIS trap and *own* the consequences for HIS crimes.
Go to jail BRADLY, Go Directly to Jail, don't pass GO, Don't collect $200. When you get out, THEN you can do what you want (and can afford). For your sake, I suggest you drop this "I want to be a girl" until you get out. Good Luck DUDE! In the mean time, don't pick up the soap.
Where's the fetus gonna gestate?!
(S)he probably walso ants to live as a woman that isn't in prison, but we can't always get what we want.
There are liberals in the U.S. government? Where?
What kind of self entitled asshole are you? It's not up to you to decide if Chelsea Manning considers her a woman and as such deserves to be called by her chosen name and the proper pronoun.
You must be very insecure in your own sexuality if you think dissing someone makes you stronger or superior. It does not.
Yes, we should all focus on really important things like Bradley's gender identity and not wasting any more time on all that trivial information about what the government is doing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents_of_the_United_States_diplomatic_cables_leak
Good to see priorities are in order.
Christine Jorgensen in 1952 was an American who was the first person to become widely known in the United States for having sex reassignment surgery—in this case, male to female. She had served in the Army before going to Sweden for the sex change operation. I think it was Bob Hope who quiped that "Christine Jorgensen was the first guy to go abroad and come back a broad."
Today's vices may be tomorrow's virtues.
So do millions of genetically cis-women. Having a womb isn't what defines a woman.
Or would you like to propose that all women undergoing a hysterectomy or have a genetic defect shall be mandatory be forced to be man? No.
What about France, Hong Kong, Venezuela, Israel, etc...?
Oh, and it's five US prisons. ADX Florence, Riker Island, San Quentin, Alcatraz, and Attica. Did you review the list? The including of US prison ADX Florence Supermax looks sterile, compared to the preceding burned & gutted cell in Venezuela and followed by a picture of blindfolded inmates in a Syrian prison which had 2.4k inmates executed 3 decades ago.
I have to say that I question the 'merits' by which US prisons are on the list. 'Many suicides' doesn't really have the bite of '2.4k executed by presidential order', or '111 killed in a riot'. Heck, San Quentin mentions that it holds 4k prisoners and has the largest death row in the USA, but doesn't mention WHY it's otherwise among the worst prisons in the world. I'd have to say that US prisons probably made the list more due to ease of research and the need to have 'USA' in there somewhere. They even had to reach further back into the past.
Also, multiple prisons from Venezuela, Brazil and elsewhere are on the list
I don't read AC A human right
Androgen insensitivity syndrome, the 1 case in 130,000 that does occur, is also biology.
Honestly,
It seems like this tidbit of info, coming when it has, is pitch perfect to make people stop listening to the Bradley Manning situation and turn the whole fiasco into a bad joke.
Isn't that just TERRIBLY convenient for the government?
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
The timing seems... odd to me. Right when people are using this guy as a hero and poster boy for whistleblowing and BAM. Try to make him look "a little off in the head" instead.
Just seems rather PSYOP-flavored story. I'm probably wrong, but it feels that way.
I'll just chime in that while it's probably 45% of jobs TOTAL, a BCD(Bad Conduct Discharge) is different and actually better than a Dishonorable. Most of them fixed on the point that people with one are felons, so any positions that ban felons also ban DDs.
A BCD is a misdemeanor level discharge, a DD is a felony level. I'm not a military lawyer, but that's how I understand it.
I don't read AC A human right
Chelsea? I like his other female name better, http://dailyentertainmentnews.com/breaking-news/chelsea-manning-bradley-mannings-new-name-living-as-a-woman/ I pretty much doubt Fort Leavenworth will give him anything, and without sex change surgery he will have to serve his time with male inmates
Risk of jail? Worth it; it's for the good of mankind.
Risk of being so messed up I want to change genders? ah... somebody else can leak it.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Heh, missed the original post and thought "Androgen insensitivity is still biological!", but went back and saw the AC mentioned 'determined by DNA', so you have a point. ;)
Yes, I'll consider a person with total androgen insensitivity a woman. It can be more complicated if the insensitivity isn't total, there's a surprising amount of grey area.
I don't read AC A human right
Govt Guy 1: What news article could we put out that would completely distract and take attention away from all the NSA/Spying stuff while simultaneously turning some of the issues into complete Enquirer nonsense?.
Govt Guy 2: Lets make Manning into a transgender sympathy case and totally turn this issue off into left field so people forget the real issue.
Govt Guy 1: That's brilliant, they'll eat it up.
Actually it was working for Bradly, that's why they were in process of kicking is ass out when the narcissist decided he didn't like that kind of behavior.
I guess the narcissist private who was being booted out thought he deserved more respect than he got, and decided to get back as his boss.
What kind of self entitled asshole are you? It's not up to you to decide if Chelsea Manning considers her a woman and as such deserves to be called by her chosen name and the proper pronoun.
Most likely, you're responding to another sock-puppet of some paid propagandist who has been employed with the explicit task of helping to create enough grass-roots noise to establish fertile ground for this smear campaign to take root.
There's a tipping point in terms of herd mentality; when enough people believe something, everybody tends to go along with it.
This soulless asshole is helping to destroy the world. And the karmic debt for that sin will be paid in full.
Nice try.
Nice try, and it might have worked; had Manning not released thousands of documents he never read as well as evidence of wrong doing.
And since he dumped those thousands of other documents, he loses his moral high-ground, and this statement is just a reflection of the same narcissism that he had when he released those thousands of other documents to begin with.
So fail.
Is this story straight out of central casting??? This is beyond belief. Beyond the grade school humor, look at the whole thing. It is so out there that it doesn't even make sense if you look beyond the surface, a place the media doesn't go and doesn't want readers to go
WTF? Remove your tin foil hat.
Chelsea's gender dysphoria is well known from before the trial. This has nothing to do with propaganda or a smear campaign.
Why should it be a smear campaign? If YOU think it's something "dirty" is solely YOUR problem, not Chelsea's.
The decisions that I made in 2010 were made out of a concern for my country and the world that we live in. Since the tragic events of 9/11, our country has been at war. We’ve been at war with an enemy that chooses not to meet us on any traditional battlefield, and due to this fact we’ve had to alter our methods of combating the risks posed to us and our way of life.
I initially agreed with these methods and chose to volunteer to help defend my country. It was not until I was in Iraq and reading secret military reports on a daily basis that I started to question the morality of what we were doing.
It was at this time I realized that (in) our efforts to meet the risk posed to us by the enemy, we have forgotten our humanity.
We consciously elected to devalue human life both in Iraq and Afghanistan. When we engaged those that we perceived were the enemy, we sometimes killed innocent civilians. Whenever we killed innocent civilians, instead of accepting responsibility for our conduct, we elected to hide behind the veil of national security and classified information in order to avoid any public accountability.
In our zeal to kill the enemy, we internally debated the definition of torture. We held individuals at Guantanamo for years without due process. We inexplicably turned a blind eye to torture and executions by the Iraqi government. And we stomached countless other acts in the name of our war on terror.
Patriotism is often the cry extolled when morally questionable acts are advocated by those in power. When these cries of patriotism drown out any logically based dissension, it is usually the American soldier that is given the order to carry out some ill-conceived mission.
Our nation has had similar dark moments for the virtues of democracy — the Trail of Tears, the Dred Scott decision, McCarthyism, and the Japanese-American internment camps — to mention a few. I am confident that many of the actions since 9/11 will one day be viewed in a similar light.
As the late Howard Zinn once said, “There is not a flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.”
I understand that my actions violated the law; I regret if my actions hurt anyone or harmed the United States. It was never my intent to hurt anyone. I only wanted to help people. When I chose to disclose classified information, I did so out of a love for my country and a sense of duty to others.
If you deny my request for a pardon, I will serve my time knowing that sometimes you have to pay a heavy price to live in a free society.
I will gladly pay that price if it means we could have a country that is truly conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all women and men are created equal.
No offense to transpeople, but why is this on Slashdot? I don't give a fuck if he wants to be a man or a woman in jail.
His gender identity was, according to his own defense team, the reason he was disgruntled with the military (understandably, especially since this was before Don't-Ask-Don't-Tell was repealed, and he was almost certainly treated like shit by homophobic soldiers and command) and this "affected his judgement."
If you read the chat transcripts, he is practically gloating about how, despite the military discharging him for being genderqueer, he still has access to classified files and can see with whatever he wants.
In short, this is not irrelevant media clickbait. This is why Manning did what he did: He was treated badly by the army, and he retaliated by disclosing shit-tons of information he had access to. None of this selfless whistleblower nonsense the Slashdot community has rallied around.
With no previous history on this before now, plus holding him for several years, naked, with torture - - - do they have anything they could use against him (ie. blackmail)? To get this kind of confession from him after being sentenced makes little sense. And if the army were to say he had gender emotional problems before he was sentenced. . . . well if that is the case, why did they hire/put him in such a sensitive position? A lot of stuff doesn't make sense here.
I mean, I've heard of privates being demoted, but this is new territory.
What you're assuming is that he really wants to be a woman.
Just as easily, he could CLAIM to want to be a woman. He knows the military will not do this operation, but if he convinces the physiologists well enough perhaps he could be assigned to a womans prison anyway. This would have all kinds of benefits for him, the chief one being he would be in a prison not full of guys far larger and stronger than him that all hated him. If for no other reason alone that would be worth the pretense.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Good for him, but why should I (or we) care ? This is people mags material now.
...the fact that a soldier with gender issues was the only one with the balls to report those coverups... nowTHAT'd threaten some fragile masculinity.
Chelsea has asked to be referred to by her preferred name and pronouns. Why is this so hard? Even the Rueters article only uses her name and her correct pronouns when they are directly quoting her.
If you can't respect this request from a woman who is a national hero, I weep for all the other trans folk in the world (like me).
WTF? Remove your tin foil hat.
Chelsea's gender dysphoria is well known from before the trial. This has nothing to do with propaganda or a smear campaign.
Why should it be a smear campaign? If YOU think it's something "dirty" is solely YOUR problem, not Chelsea's.
I put 'dirty' in quotes for a reason. It's a convention of written language which denotes that the value of the quoted term is not agreed with by the quoting author, but is used in order to expedite communication by referring to the same common terms used in the discussion without having to re-invent modes of expression. It's also done, (as in this case), to supply additional contrary opinion by the author. ie, sarcasm.
In your defense, it's not something everybody is quick enough to grasp. Don't feel too bad. Maybe you hadn't had your coffee yet at the time of reading.
As for propaganda and smearing. . , if media focusing on a person's sexual orientation is not an attempt to misdirect attention from the truly important matter, (War Crimes), then the media is failing where it has classically succeeded in the past. There's no reason to believe they've suddenly gone limp in that department.
As for Tin-Foil?
Only the young and the woefully unlearned (and perpetually afraid of being laughed at) hold to the official version of reality these days. Blind cowards.
There is more than enough compelling information available, even through the main stream news, to paint an accurate picture of The Way Things Are. Those who don't look are either young and forgivably ignorant, or old and mentally/spiritually infirm.
Oh .. wait .... nevermind.....
I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
WTF? Gender Identity is a mental problem. It is like those white kids that want to be gangstas except they are not being turned black because they get over it by the time they have the money. Subcultural identity problem vs a gender identity problem, both would be confusing the physical with the mental.
I would say it is more of a mental condition because for healthy people it would be a phase and then they'd accept reality and just be themselves the way they are. gay or whatever.
Your gender is static. It is DNA. Manning is a male no matter what. One could argue that man and woman are separate from male and female; but I am not such a person.
I do believe he was struggling with gender identity issues before this whole ordeal.
Gay or straight should not matter for a security clearance. Identity should not matter for a security clearance. However ***currently struggling*** with a major psychological issue should disqualify someone from holding a security clearance. Did Manning receive a pass due to political correctness?
http://science.slashdot.org/story/09/08/22/1840229/how-to-prove-someone-is-female
To the "How can a nerd get a date?" question.
Seastead this.
...the conservatives will jump ship on the 'defending Manning' bandwagon. The only force stronger than supporting the leak of classified information is pure, unbridled, fear of what they don't understand.
Not that I had much respect for this guy in the first place, but whatever respect I did have in terms of putting illegal government actions in the spotlight are now gone. Have fun with Bubba, Manning... you might want to pull a new, more feminine last name out of your ass too the next time you get a load blown up there in prison.
( AC post, sorry don't have / . account and never really reply to online discussions )
Re: Use or over-use of word "normal"
I replied to a post above regarding the use of "normal". In that case the (Score:5) post seemed to indicate Manning should be denied surgery because he's/she's "not normal".
I understand what you're saying about "stupid PC crap" and transgendered not being "normal".
However, as you yourself point out, "deviating from a norm" is "not normal".
I might be wrong here, but I'd guess in a general sense you fit into most "normal" categories (hence the aversion to stupid PC crap).
I propose that for a moment you put yourself in other "non-normal shoes" for moment to see how using the 'accurate' term could be seen.
[Re-posting from my examples above]
In the USA, for example, it's not "normal" to be:
blind, black/asian/etc, gay, born without a limb, albino, mentally disabled (hmmm...make that - severly mentally disabled), muslim, cos-play D&D fanatic, over 6' tall, etc...
Is it just "stupid PC crap" to avoid saying -
[after black/mormon/albino guest exist TV interview] - "Well, that guys not normal, but he made for an excellent interview"
[speaking to someone who's lost a limb/brain injury w/mental impairment] - "...even tho' you're not normal any more, how are you doing after the injury?"
Would said persons be "offended for no reason" by the use of "normal" in describing what they are not?
I'd venture to guess that most everyone, by some measure, isn't normal... so avoiding calling out said "abnormality" in polite conversation/discourse... is not simply "stupid PC crap".
My 2-cents...
I'd agree with most of your statements, but only because (referring to the USA at least) our legal system and law enforcement system have become corrupt enough that it's quite profitable to keep the prisons as full as possible. When you have mandatory sentencing including jail time for victimless drug offenses, for example, it means you're definitely going to lock a lot of people up who don't mean any harm and are in all probability, pretty decent folks.
IMO, if the system worked properly, you wouldn't waste the taxpayer's money jailing anyone for such crimes as prostitution or drug possession. You'd also not have felony crimes with prison time for consensual "sex crimes" (such as an older teenager having sex with a 15 year old minor).
If you started reserving the prison time for the violent offenders, with the occasional sentence thrown in for the repeated theft of large dollar amounts -- then I think it really would be much more of an "us vs. them" situation that was warranted. Govt. should only be locking people up if they pose a true danger to society ... not because it's viewed as a "good, strict punishment" that will "make people think twice about committing a crime again".
I am totally for gay rights. If two dudes wanna bang, and they are both consenting, more power to them. But transgender people are just fucking nuts. You want to be a girl and you turned out to be a guy? Too fucking bad. I wish I was born rich instead of good looking. But them the breaks.
"Chance favors the prepared mind." ~Me
First, he told us that he regret "hurting the USA", now he wants to be a woman ?
I just think he got brainwashed hard by the Feds, tortured, tourmented, etc...
Is he still okay to go to jail ?
Given the reportedly atrocious conditions and the getting-ass-raped-daily-ness of the US men's prison system ... wouldn't *you* think of this as a possible out? Would changing your gender get you into a women's prison?
Didn't notice until you pointed it out.
Manning has a very weak labia on his upper lip (Thats the 'cleft' in the upper lip, right under the nose, not the fun labia an actual woman has). Classic sign of fetal alcohol syndrome.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Reuters is no different than the Associated Press. Blieve none of what you hear and half of what you see.
When I see a NEW interview with him saying that, or his parents saying that, THEN i'll believe it. Not until.
Obama knows the people are angry about his treatment, and we see him as a hero, so Obama and other globalist are trying to discredit him, any way they can.
What, 600 comments and nobody says how friggin' lopsided this is? A person with big personal issues -- but not a war criminal -- gets 35, while war criminals walk the streets unmolested, get thousands for speaking engagements and even get in our Face the Nation. Bradley, Chelsea, whatever. Not fair.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Here is an example of a very articulate army officer in the Australian Army who is transgender.
It is very interesting and, I think, quite moving.
I offer this as information for those, like me, who are not transgender, but wish to gain some understanding of the complications and difficulties of transition.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPsYWN-mW-s
The fact that Lieutenant Colonel Cate McGregor is, like Manning, in the army makes it apposite.
You brainwashed idiot. Hilarious. The Jew could tell you the moon is made of cheese and you'd believe them.
Still, better not THINK too hard, or the Jews' 'magic spell' will be broken...
I laugh every time I see cretins referring to men who have, or are going to have, their penises and testicles cut off, as 'she'.
These people are insane, and the problem is in their MINDS, not their bodies. But what the T.V. says is more important to you than the long term wellbeing of these insane people, so you go along with the Jewish perverts who enjoy cutting off men's penises and testicles, - after all, circumcision is only so much of a 'turn on' for these monsters.
Just have a good, hard long think about what circumcision IS, and WHO thought it up, and WHY. Presumably most people here know that 'god' doesn't exist, and if there is a 'god', he/she/it certainly doesn't 'talk to people' and get them to write down in a book that they 'must' be allowed to cut off part of a baby boy's penis, and suck the blood out with their mouths...
Didn't the filthy Jews tell you about that?
I think he'll be in for an unpleasant surprise in prison. There's nothing in the law that says they must accommodate one's sexual deviance, or provide a fashion catwalk. Just sayin'.
nt
Commit a crime to get health care... what does that say about a country?
I mean... wow.
No one has sex in prison, check. thank you for clarifying that.
Also, he should have the right to bear children.
Narricism seems like a thoroughly unwarranted slam in this case and a major case of projection on the government's part.
the taxpayers should not be paying for medically unnecessary procedures while people who work 2 jobs cannot afford to go to the dentist.
I was just thinking yesterday that he gave the impression of someone that might have a little to tell but I wouldn't ask. Now it is confirmed. Is it okay to be straight and have a gaydar?
Would they let him stay in a women's prison? That might make it worth it: I'd imagine you are much less likely to have an unwanted rear entry when you take penises out of the equation.
Manning is a confused nut. He obviously had and has issues. I could theoretically admired him and condemned him before I found out he was a nut case. (He's not a nut for wanting to be a women; that confusion is just part of his problems.) I have to put blame of those under whom he worked. You don't let a nut job (confused and troubled individual) handle and process classified information. You supervise your employees. I believe his commanders should be the ones in jail.
He was working with classified info. The moment he said he didn't want to be in the army his security clearance should have been revoked and he should have been moved to non secure work. It's really that simple.
P.S. I remember my short stint in the military a long time ago. They kicked me out because I couldn't do enough pushups. My MOS was 74D. I would like had the same access as manning or probably even better since all he did was have access at a terminal. I wanted to serve, had skills far beyond my MOS training and I knew my place and yet they kicked me out because my body didn't respond to traditional physical training.
Yes, the US prisons are clean and in good repair compared to the ones in poor third-world countries. But guess what? US schools and hospitals are also clean and in good repair compared to the ones in poor third-world countries. This isn't a review of hotels on TripAdvisor. The prisons are being judged for how humanly they treat the inmates, not whether or not they have bed bugs.
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
Suicide rates among gender dysphorics are horrifying.
Zhou et. al. (1997) found brain areas that differ in size between men and women, and which had the typical female size in trans women.
Rational questions remain, but add that to the experiences of trans people who know their mismatched gender all the way down and can't change it, and it's a coherent theory.
People trying to live according to their below-the-neck settings and override their brain settings often try the discipline and fixed roles of a military career.
All our interactions with Manning will be with Manning's brain, not with Manning's chromosomes.
If the brain setting is "female", then "she" makes sense logically.
Gender dysphoria can start in early childhood.
Many trans people use the word "tranny" among themselves, and many experience it as a vicious slur if it comes from a stranger. It's best avoided in general.
I had to give myself a crash course when a large number of trans* people suddenly landed in my online life. Human gender identity turns out to be at least as complicated as anything else in biology and the details are fascinating.
I am sorry to defecate on anyone's parade, but nobody seems to question Manning's ability to actually be a woman? Womanhood is not a default state, and not a catch-all for men's failure to have a workable and broad enough definition of themselves. Cutting off your dick does not make you a woman. If he is unable to deal with his male body, what makes you think that he will be able to deal with his female make-over? Of course for the next 35 years he won't have to put up with the issues of rape (well, maybe not), -17% average salary for the same job, and never even being heard again on technical and scientific subject-matters. And of course his make-over does not include bearing and raising children either. Woman- schwoman.
Old religions had child marraige. It isn't deviant to like young girls, except of the American religion.
Deuteronomy 22 28-29, hebrew. Rape a young girl, keep her (pay her father).
2 Samual 12, bathsheba was a "little lamb" when uriah took her in as his own.
Islam with ashia at 6.
Eastern religions with ying/yang dichotomy (male and female, old and new, etc)
You should convert to one of these religions and leave america.
America is no place for a male.
Especially a heritic or dissident.
It is a woman's cuntry through and through.