EU Secretly Plans To Put a Back Door In Every Car By 2020

An anonymous reader writes "A secretive EU body has agreed to develop a device to be fitted to all cars allowing police to cut off any engine at will, it emerged today. The device, which could be imposed within a decade, would also allow police to track a vehicle's movements as well as immobilise it. According to The Daily Telegraph a group of senior EU officials, including several Home Office mandarins, have signed off the proposal at a secret meeting in Brussels."

Comments

Secret meetings:

[fredrated]

it's what democracy is about!

Re:Secret meetings:

[cstec]

Democrazy. You spelled it wrong.

Re:Secret meetings:

[ackthpt]

it's what democracy is about!

For those with the votes which trump our puny votes.

Yay freedom :-\

Re:Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck the secretive EU body, and fuck their daconioan police state imperatives.

Re:Secret meetings:

[ackthpt]

Judge Dredd will be by to see you about your attitude in a little bit.

easy the ferg!

Re:Secret meetings:

[Gr8Apes]

Wow, a leak about security and privacy without Snowden?

Re:Secret meetings:

[xaxa]

Considering the two sources given are the Daily Mail and the Telegraph, it's safest to assume this is lies until someone finds a reliable source.

(Two newspapers that make their profitis by getting "middle Englanders" angry. )

Re:Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

I wouldn't believe the Daily Mail if they told me I had a hole in my arse

Re:Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish to know how having a hole in my arse may affect house prices.

Re:Secret meetings:

[gweihir]

This has been referenced in other places as well, although, the "secret" part is news to me.

Re:Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

Given that Fox, CNN, MSNBC, BBC, ABC, etc... have become nothing but propaganda tools, your statement is simply asinine. Quality "News" has become almost non existent. Maybe you missed the Whistle Blowers from NYP and Washington Post that told you how they only release what the Government has scrubbed.

Should you ask for sources? Absolutely. Should you claim that someone can't be true because of a name? Not today you can't.

Re:Secret meetings:

[Laxori666]

I guess it's not such a secret anymore.

Re:Secret meetings:

[amiga3D]

I think we can consider it pretty much inevitable. In fact I'm amazed they haven't already started installing them. Hell, maybe they have. It is such a wonderful tool I'd be shocked if they could possibly resist the temptation. Imagine never needing to chase a car ever again? Always knowing where someone is and where they've been? It almost has to happen.

Re:Secret meetings:

[icebike]

I wouldn't believe the Daily Mail if they told me I had a hole in my arse

Well apparently having your head up your arse qualifies you as having no hole any more.

It the time it to you to post your little AC triumphant drivel you could have searched for other sources.

https://www.google.com/search?...

Re:Secret meetings:

[mspohr]

BBC also: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/worl...

The BBC story also includes a link to the actual EU document (pdf) stating the work program.

Re:Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

Should you claim that someone can't be true because of a name?

Sure you can. They're ALL giving half the story at best. And those UK papers are more often than not just making things up. A lot like Fox News.

Re:Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

That doesn't mean the DM got it right. Or didn't plagiarize it.

Re:Secret meetings:

[icebike]

What the hell is the DM?

I posted a google search, that will find all sorts of hits.

Is the BBC ok for you? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/worl...

Or do you have to hear this from God himself?

Re:Secret meetings:

[fisted]

and now you've ruined it

Re:Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

Gosh, you really are extremely prejudiced, aren't you? I bet you don't feel even the slightest shame or embarrassment over what you have posted here, but you should.

Re:Secret meetings:

[Grumbleduke]

Most of that stems from the Telegraph article, though. And I'm not sure it is a good idea to trust the Telegraph on anything relating to the EU. The BBC's version of the story has a few more facts and sources, and a bit less outrage.

Re:Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

Is that what they said about NSA backdoring computers in transport, untill post-Snowden?

Re:Secret meetings:

[jhol13]

Hey give me a break! Yuo can pre-propose pretty much anything! Thera are huge amont on idiotic pre-proposals!
They always die before getting near "to be voted" stage.

This is a good thing (that you can try to get different things to be voted on)!

Re:Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering the two sources given are the Daily Mail and the Telegraph, it's safest to assume this is lies until someone finds a reliable source.

(Two newspapers that make their profitis by getting "middle Englanders" angry. )

What about BBC? http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25961096

Re:Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, this is what democracy is about.
Democracy - rule of scared idiots, FUDed by lying politicians.
As long as majority is stupid or scared they can do what they like.
And majority IS stupid.

Better then democracy it would be to remove basic rights, like to not be spied upon or assaulted/arrested/jailed for non-crimes from the democratic vote. It should not be up to majority to have basic rights, the basic rights should be a constant.

Basic right of no-agression: you should not attack anyone as long as he doesn't attack anyone. Then everyone gets peacefully together and only do things with people that agree to it (e.g. work, trade, etc). This is called Agorism.

Re:Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

DM = Daily Mail. Otherwise known as Daily Fail.

Re:Secret meetings:

[xaxa]

A much better article.

"The BBC understands it would take several years for any such technical proposal to be drafted."

It's an idea -- one listed among several in the document.

Re:Secret meetings:

[Darinbob]

I agree. There's a difference between a censored half-truth newspaper versus an outright scandal mongering tabloid. On the one case you must take the stories with a grain of salt and use your brain, in the other case you get to read about the adventures of Batboy.

Re:Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

I could indeed have searched to check if a newspaper that prints distorted nonsense day after day after day and was quite a big fan of Adolph Hitler, but why would I?
(don't call Godwin before you lookup Hurrah for the Blackshirts)

Re:Secret meetings:

[Darinbob]

MP says "they can all go to hell".
Tabloid reports "Government Plans Ethnic Cleansing Program!"

Re:Secret meetings:

[Borg453b]

Drokk!

Re:Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

Democracy doesn't work anymore. It was good last century but the people in power (not necessarily the elected politicians) have figured out all the loopholes. It's time to come up with a better form of government with more transparency and more frequent scrutiny and auditing. The longer people stubbornly hang on to the notion that last century's democracy still works, the worse it'll get.

Re:Secret meetings:

[JoeMerchant]

6 years to launch and it's "out," either not a secret at all, or a very poorly executed one.

Re:Secret meetings:

[Paul Jakma]

Note that this is taking place under the auspices of the Council of European Union, i.e. directly at the behest of the member state governments. The document mentions "Remote Stopping" just once:

Remote Stopping Vehicles
Cars on the run have proven to be dangerous for citizens. Criminal offenders (from robbery to a
simple theft) will take risks to escape after a crime. In most cases the police are unable to chase
the criminal due to the lack of efficient means to stop the vehicle safely. This project starts with the
knowledge that insufficient technology tools are available to be used as part of a proportionate
response. This project will work on a technological solution that can be a “build in standard” for all
cars that enter the European market.

So there's nothing agreed, there's nothing that is going to be imposed. The technology doesn't even exist. All they're doing is they're going to look to see what they could develop. Once they've done that, that doesn't mean it will be imposed. This working group doesn't have that power. If the public doesn't like it, the *member state* politicians (not EU politicians!) who make the decisions at the Council of the EU level would not put it forward. Even if these *state* politicians *did* want to impose this, they'd still need the agreement of the European Parliament (with its directly elected MEPs). The EP can delay and even block legislation (though, that requires a super-majority, ultimately).

tl;dr: the Dailymail are, as usual, blowing out their arse and making shit up about what's happening at the EU.

Re:Secret meetings:

[Ol Olsoc]

I think we can consider it pretty much inevitable. In fact I'm amazed they haven't already started installing them. Hell, maybe they have. It is such a wonderful tool I'd be shocked if they could possibly resist the temptation.

OnStar?

https://www.onstar.com/web/por...

Re:Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

Excellent, let's vote up the moron whose slander against papers with politics he doesn't like just got explicitly proven wrong.

Re:Secret meetings:

[manu0601]

it's what democracy is about!

What made you believe EU was a democracy? European parliament cannot even propose a directive!

Re:Secret meetings:

[memnock]

The U.S. govt. probably already has had this meeting. The back doors start in the U.S. on July 4th. Happy Independence!

Re:Secret meetings:

[ralphaostrander]

I think we fought for the wrong side. Perhaps we have made a terrible mistake. Our American police state has me joining the tea party to starve the beast of tax dollars.

Re:Secret meetings:

[Mashiki]

Sure you can. They're ALL giving half the story at best. And those UK papers are more often than not just making things up. A lot like Fox News.

I think you're talking about NBC, and it's gotten so bad if they're not lying they're actually apologizing for lying, attacking, or making things up.

Re:Secret meetings:

[rtb61]

Far more likely is was released on purpose because it is an incredibly bad idea. Any system to shut every car by every police force across the globe will absolutely positively e hacked before it is even distributed, allowing criminals to shut down peoples cars across the globe. So driving on unlit back country roads would become incredibly dangerous. Driving in the wee hours of the morning with out much traffic about, would become incredibly dangerous. Peak hour mega traffic jams would become routine. Payments to have the system stripped from the cars of criminals would become some routine, that they would become very cheap. I bet those same idiots would considering adding it to aircraft.

Re:Secret meetings:

[jopsen]

The BBC also says:

A source familiar with Enlets said it was unlikely that such devices could be in new cars by the end of the decade.

Furthermore, I don't think this is a secret plan. It sounds more like a work group discussing the technical feasibility of such as system.

No way, this was going to be implemented without public discussion... Note, there is no talk of implementation, just talk about feasibility, then they will talk standardization, then there'll be law and then a couple years down the road it'll be implemented in actual cars... Assuming public outcry doesn't kill this quiet possibly sensible idea.

Who knows maybe it only allows control within a certain distance, etc... Maybe it's not unreasonable, maybe just maybe, surveillance isn't so bad if the regulation about how data is used is very strong and well protected. After all, we're already under surveillance by private entites s.t. Google, Amazon, Visa, Master, etc... Well, control governments ought to be better :)

Re:Secret meetings:

[MrNiCeGUi]

What makes this an incredible bad idea is that it gives the government a very powerful method to thwart dissent.

In view of the recent events in Ukraine, where protestors or suspected protestors have received a threatening text message from their phone company, saying "Dear subscriber, you are registered as a participant in a mass disturbance", one can easily imagine that this technology which is to be used purportedly to stop car chases can and most certainly will be used to stop private transport in cases of massive anti-government protests.

The power that this will give the government over the population is extraordinary. This is therefore a very bad idea and a serious threat to democracy and needs to be stopped.

Re: Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of what is done in the Council is indeed secret. This is a problem, but it is something that the Union bodies have no influence on. The council consist of the member states governments. They also have several working groups, like in this case, one formed by the member states police chiefs.

For anyone with at least two brain cells, it is easy to see that when surveillance and big brother ideas are said to come from the EU, they usually originate from the council and not the supranational bodies. The general outcry from people without a clue, is then to want less supernational EU and more international EU, however, this will since the bad ideas come from the council only make things worse. The correct solution (assuming you don't want to break up the union), is to increase the supernational component , I.e. Move towards a federal union, instead of clawing back powers.

Re:Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

The telegraph is about as reliable as you can get in the UK. What are you talking about?

Re:Secret meetings:

[Kjella]

Why? This is essentially a signed kill message and message signing has generally been very secure, good luck getting anyone's root key. Assuming this is a central service (cops send in request for kill code for one license plate, get single use code valid for limited time back) and someone does manage to hack the server and steal the signing key it'd be fairly obvious when it was used "my car just stopped, lights were blinking, radio said it was shut down by the police" Of course revoking the key from every car out there would be a bitch, but the cryptographic standards are all there and it could be done via the mandatory EU check-ups or highway beamers to give at least some herd immunity.

Payments to have the system stripped from the cars of criminals would become some routine, that they would become very cheap. I bet those same idiots would considering adding it to aircraft.

Probably a bit of tin foil around the antenna would do the trick, maybe it won't work on getaway cars but police stop runners, DUIs, people driving the wrong direction and a lot of other loose cannons probably wouldn't have done that. Oh and all military aircraft have kill codes today I think, want to do a runner with a US jet to Russia? Methinks you'd never arrive, even if you could avoid being shot down. Missiles definitively have self-destruct codes, now if it was this totally insecure why would we build systems to totally cripple ourselves in case of war?

Re:Secret meetings:

[amalcolm]

A paper with 'politics' is not a newspaper - it's a mouthpiece.

Re:Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

So... Wherefrom doth spring 'secretly'? Or somethingsomething.

Re:Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

Except when something that relates to IT security is proposed by the government (here in Europe at least), IT security people are among those they don't want to hear from. Because we have this habbit of telling the politicians all the ways their ideas are going to fail.

In Denmark we have a public key system for identifying communication with the government. Except, we don't have a private key. The private key is stored on some private company's server, just waiting to get leaked. To sign something, what you want to sign is sent to the company, they you enter a six character password, which is in no way derived from the document you want signed, all from a browser that might be full of malware that could easily replace the document with something completely different, and of course the whole thing requires you to have an insecure version of Java, so if your computer isn't already pwned, the many Java security holes will go a long way in making sure that it is.

And that's what you get if you allow 179 politicians to get involved. The EU has several thousands. The private key for your car will end up being 48 bits rather than 4096, and instead of signing the message, the key itself will be prepended to the unencrypted message. And being the EU, there will be one key per country, and every car has to react to every single one of them. And to make sure that this is implemented correctly, the keys themselves will be a part of the law text. And that will be the first revision, before the EU member countries start requiring back doors built into the law.

Re:Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

"I wish to know how having a hole in my arse may affect house prices."
It's because the bottom has fallen out of the market

Re:Secret meetings:

[erikkemperman]

I think we can consider it pretty much inevitable. In fact I'm amazed they haven't already started installing them. Hell, maybe they have. It is such a wonderful tool I'd be shocked if they could possibly resist the temptation. Imagine never needing to chase a car ever again? Always knowing where someone is and where they've been? It almost has to happen.

The problem with this, as with any tool that authorities don't want us to know about, is that they can't easily deploy it en masse without blowing the cover.

It's a bit like the problem the allies had in WWII. They had broken, sort of, several Axis ciphers (notably Enigma) but did not want that to be obvious, for fear that their adversaries would lose confidence and switch over to another cipher. That meant they had to do what we would now call parallel construction, and where this was not feasible they might have had to remain inactive and suffer losses. It may or may not be historically accurate, but some believe that plans for the bombing of Coventry were known beforehand by UK intelligence, who allowed it to happen instead of attempting an evacuation or even concentrating defenses.

I'm just going to go ahead and assume that all /. regulars have read Neal Stephenson's excellent Cryptonomicon, featuring this kind of conundrum in baroque detail.

Re:Secret meetings:

[Gonoff]

Those papers don't have politics. They will quite happily set their editorial policies against any government that doesn't do what they want.

"What do they want?" you may ask. They want the right to spy on anyone and everyone without limit. They want the right to get information out of the police and public officials whenever they think it will increase sales. They want Only certain people to be taxed. Who may vary but they generally do not want their owners friends to be taxed for sure...

Basically, they are journalistic sociopaths.Individuals may vary but collectively this seems to be the case.

Re:Secret meetings:

[Gonoff]

Or Daily Wail.

Re:Secret meetings:

[Goose In Orbit]

Is it home to Romanians and Bulgarians (who are also stealing your job)?

Re:Secret meetings:

[Goose In Orbit]

They'll be claiming it causes cancer next... ...and a fortnight later it'll be a universal cure-all...

(repeat ad nauseam)

Re:Secret meetings:

[L4t3r4lu5]

If the Mail or Telegraph weren't invited to attend, it's a secret meeting as far as they're concerned.

It's like a scientist saying "The change is statistically significant" and the papers reporting "SIGNIFICANT RISK HORROR!". They have their own rules about English.

Re:Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

ooh you mean the car chase cliché will be a thing of the past ? for kimble maybe. professionals will however be able to thwart this.

Re:Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

This a great idea, because most criminals that are in car chases have cars built after the year 2000 when they may have considered starting doing this.

Any time I see a car chase on Cops, it's some 1988 Ford Fiesta

Re: Secret meetings:

[tom229]

Thank you! Vote this man up!

This is the biggest problem I have with all those people who chant "who cares... I have nothing to hide". Sure maybe now you don't. But do you really want to give absolute power to a government entity and just hope they will always be your friend? It's a massive risk to take that is not worth the short term conveniences they're providing us. Wake up people.

Re:Secret meetings:

[JoeMerchant]

I have had these thoughts about unlit back country roads, mostly at times when police response time might be expected to be extraordinarily long (New Year's Eve, for instance...) you don't need a kill switch to take somebody down out there, just a big truck and a shotgun - pull up alongside, blow out a tire or two and the target is just as disabled as if you had shut off the engine with some gee-whizzery. Variations include parking the truck across the road and pointing the shotgun in the driver's face when they slow to go around on the shoulder, team play with two road blocks penning the prey in, etc. The advent of ubiquitous cell phone ownership and coverage has made the world seem a little safer from these sorts of things, but it doesn't take much to make (or buy on e-bay) a cell phone jammer, either.

There are plenty of systems on today's roads that are open for abuse, but aren't generally abused - like the IR receivers on traffic lights to make them go/stay green for emergency vehicles. If the penalty for abuse of vehicle disablement systems was roughly somewhere between false arrest and kidnapping, it would mostly be abused in the movies, not in real life.

But, make no mistake, some people who shouldn't would occasionally abuse the system, just as they have abused firearms, knives, and every other form of weapon since forever.

Re:Secret meetings:

[doccus]

Indeed. One lies half of the time, and the other tells the truth half of the time...

Re:Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

More minuses to the truth! Idiots.

Re:Secret meetings:

[Anonymous Coward]

Would you rather they didn't tell you? No worries, they won't next time. They'll just come to your door when they're ready.

Great idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Because criminals won't immediately disable this shit, right?

Re:Great idea

[djdanlib]

Or learn how to access it...

Remember, if "They" can do it, for any value of They, so can someone else.

Re:Great idea

[ackthpt]

Because criminals won't immediately disable this shit, right?

Criminals will be targeted by drones. You'll know they are criminals because the drones shot at them.

Move along, citizen, nothing to see here.

Re:Great idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Only criminals have cars.

Re:Great idea

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure the definition of "criminal" will quickly expand once they get this power. Have an unpaid parking ticket? Your car is now disabled. Behind on child support payments? Your car is now disabled....etc,etc, etc

Re:Great idea

[Tokolosh]

No, disabling it will make you a criminal. Cover a surveillance camera, you are a criminal.

It will be fun when a mother and her children are crushed by a bus when a static discharge immobilises her car in an intersection.

Re:Great idea

[Megane]

Better yet, combine this with the Brits' beloved Gatso speed cameras for a double win!

Re:Great idea

[gmuslera]

Because criminals (either working for them, or getting access, or just being outside frontiers, like NSA and people that have access directly or indirectly to their secrets) will not be ever be able to trigger it on normal people cars too.

Is already bad for your health (and the ones surrounding you) to drive, is one of the main death causes in the world. Adding the extra spice of carrying a backdoorl on them that you won't know when it will trigger and cause an accident will make driving very popular. And if ever someone important in a way or another dies in something related with a car normal people won't know if was a normal accident or something caused by the devices they put into.

Re:Great idea

[gweihir]

Not necessarily, but given this is a government proposal (well, sort-of), it will have all the characteristics these people typically manage to achieve, namely, insecure, unreliable, too expensive and generally a failure. I predict that this thing If it gets implemented...) will not work reliably for the police, but will work reliably for criminals.

Re:Great idea

[CanHasDIY]

Or learn how to access it...

Remember, if "They" can do it, for any value of They, so can someone else.

If it uses any of the same interfaces as the Event Data Recorder ("black box"), you can get the equipment to access it here, for anywhere between $1,500 to $10,000.

Re:Great idea

[Minwee]

Or learn how to access it...

Remember, if "They" can do it, for any value of They, so can someone else.

To do that they would have to either defeat a highly sophisticated military grade encryption system, or somehow be able to answer secret recovery questions that only the maker of the car would know.

"What year was this car's engine block assembled?"

"What was the name of the first dealership that this car was sent to?"

"If I tell you the last four digits of the credit card number used to purchase this car, can you tell me the two that come before them in under 100 guesses?"

I'm telling you, there is _no_ way that anybody could break through this kind of security.

Re:Great idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Just imagine: the police are chasing you and all you do is push a button and their cars just stop dead.

Re:Great idea

[pefisher]

And if ever someone important in a way or another dies in something related with a car normal people won't know if was a normal accident or something caused by the devices they put into.

Excellent point. Lady Dianna for example.

Re:Great idea

[NatasRevol]

There's an app for that...

Re: Great idea

[Anonymous Coward]

1) "Lol".

Punctuation where there should be none.

2) No punctuation where it should be.

Punctuation where punctuation should be.

3) Incorrect punctuation

No punctuation where no punctuation should be.

Twitter account.

Punctuation where there should be none.

Re: Great idea

[Anonymous Coward]

no, not that, rather everyone starts writing the latest killacar app oughta be fun. especially for the flying cars

Re:Great idea

[HornWumpus]

How would you do it securely?

Obviously challenge response with strong cryptography. But the main problem is going to be putting the keys in every cop car, which means they will be physically compromised in about a second.

So put the keys online and give the cops access. Now you only have to revoke credentials when a 'stop box' gets stolen, not keys.

It still likely means you could get 'use once' credentials by breaking into a cop car or finding that [ sarc ] 'rare breed' [/ sarc ], the crooked cop.

Being the government they won't do any of these things.

Any serious criminal could defeat this system with a figurative roll of aluminum foil. You just have to figure out which control wire they are using as an antenna and replace it with some coax.

Cop cars will come without the system. It will end being able to buy used up police interceptors for cheap.

Re:Great idea

[canadian_right]

Just because your government is incompetent doesn't mean all governments are incompetent. Heck, I've even heard of a government agency putting a man on the moon.

Re:Great idea

[Anonymous Coward]

> any serious criminal will illegally modify their vehicle, thus proving their intent

> serious criminal

> people who go on high speed chases are serious people making intelligent decisions and not pcp-addled morons like Rodney King

Re:Great idea

[just_a_monkey]

Why would they even chase you so that you notice? With ubiquitous surveillance in our future, where are you going to run to?

(As i understand it, something similar has been standard procedure for the police in my country since they got helicopters. There are never any long high speed car chases. If someone tries to run, the police send up a helicopter and it and the police cars follow the fugitives discreetly, until they either they stop somewhere and are then arrested, or until the pursuers decide to phone the next police district along the road to set up a road block, where they are stopped and arrested.)

Re:Great idea

[zwarte piet]

I suspect, the system will be disabled in policecars or at least have a different code.

Re:Great idea

[x0ra]

There will not be such device on any emergency and "official" car, what did you expect, really ?

Re:Great idea

[mbone]

Must not have very many trees in your country.

Re:Great idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Heck, I've even heard of a government agency putting a man on the moon.

Yeah, and they only killed 8 astronauts getting there.

Re:Great idea

[AK Marc]

A large number of high speed chases are of stolen cars that weren't in the possession of the criminals long enough for them to do so. If someone stole your car, would you rather they recover the blood-stained pieces, or arrest the guy and hand you back your car in pristine condition?

Re:Great idea

[davester666]

cop cars won't have them, because it would interfere with their personal rights to not be monitored on the job.

Re:Great idea

[jonwil]

In some states of Australia they are already clamping cars of people who owe money (unpaid traffic fines etc) to the state government. Switching off the car with this kind of system seems like the logical extention and unlike a wheel clamp, its not going to be something the owner of the car can defeat with a few tools.
(or a set of lock-picks to pick open the padlock).

Re:Great idea

[Patent Lover]

They've been clamping in the U.S. (we call it being booted) for at least 20 years. Consider yourself lucky ;)

Re:Great idea

[kheldan]

The ruling party doesn't like that you voted for the competition? Your car is now disabled. You spoke out against the government? Your car is now disabled. We don't have any specific reason to detain you but want to anyway? Your car is now disabled. Oh, and don't forget this one: Criminals hack the system so they can kick you out of your car and steal it, or rob you, or rape you, or kill you, or kidnap you? Your car is now disabled. Great idea fucktarded EU politicians!

Re:Great idea

[Anonymous Coward]

It will be fun when a mother and her children are crushed by a bus when a static discharge immobilises her car in an intersection.

No, that will be "the tragic price this nation has to pay to keep its roads and highways safe from repeat-offenders with more than 3 outstanding parking tickets."
Toss in a finding of how the mom refused to drive her children to soccer practice one week in 1987, and the Daily Mail crowd will grumble about karmic returns and all that. Situation handled.

Re:Great idea

[Anonymous Coward]

[...] hand you back your car in pristine condition?

LOL. That car is evidence. It will be released to you sometime a year after the trial and you a responsible for the damage the police and dog did while they were searching illegal drugs.

Re:Great idea

[Anonymous Coward]

that was the kind of reply I had when I heard about the drone that recently got dunked into the pacific.

"Did it kill civilians? Drats. Now things won't change."

Re:Great idea

[fritsd]

Just imagine: the police are surveilling you and all you do is push a button and your car's RFID tag says it's an undercover police vehicle with the flag set. This is not the car you're looking for.

Re:Great idea

[coinreturn]

To do that they would have to either defeat a highly sophisticated military grade encryption system, or somehow be able to answer secret recovery questions that only the maker of the car would know.

"What year was this car's engine block assembled?"

Very likely to be the model year of the car

"What was the name of the first dealership that this car was sent to?"

90% of the time, this information is on the car's rear trim or license-plate frame.

"If I tell you the last four digits of the credit card number used to purchase this car, can you tell me the two that come before them in under 100 guesses?">

I have a 99% chance of being successful at that.

Re:Great idea

[AK Marc]

Just because the seizure is for a "good reason" does not mean the police shouldn't be paying market rates to deny you use. If they don't supply you with a marked cruiser to drive around for a year, they should buy the car from you for such a seizure. Just because they don't do things right in one way, isn't a good excuse for them to do things wrong in another.

Re:Great idea

[gweihir]

You need to have a cold hard look at reality. Any bureaucracy is incompetent.

You may also note that that "man on the moon" could not stay for any significant time and the whole thing was basically a colossal waste of money.

Re:Great idea

[kaatochacha]

first in for a "whoooooosh!"

Hacker Extortion Target

[RichMan]

$10 million, (finger twist), or every other car on the autobahn comes to a halt at 1pm.

Re:Hacker Extortion Target

[robinsonne]

We can hope, because that's the only way that the general public will finally see how dangerous having this capability is.

Re:Hacker Extortion Target

[Jane Q. Public]

Exactly. This is a STUPID idea.

Re:Hacker Extortion Target

[icebike]

It only takes a FEW cars disabled in key intersections to plug city streets.
Police could do this, or criminals could do it keep police away from the bank heist (or what ever).
Or the mythical terrorists, I suppose.

Its bad enough when Obama visits any town in the US and shuts the the airport and motorcade route down
for nothing but a political fundraiser. Can you imagine this technology loose in wild?

I guarantee if this gets passed in the EU it will arrive in the US in short order. Every time there is
a police chase anywhere, there will be a hue and cry from the usual useful idiots lobbying for this on
all cars.

Re:Hacker Extortion Target

[viperidaenz]

It won't make it to USA.
The TV networks will lobby against it. There will be no more high speed chases to cover.

Re:Hacker Extortion Target

[Smask]

The criminals themselves will use old cars that handles well.

Mark 2 Jaguar with 3.8L XK i6 anyone?

Re:Hacker Extortion Target

[Anonymous Coward]

This is an AWESOME idea. We will of course not put these in cars used by politicians. This is a tool by which "we" can even more forcefully assert our power over "you."

Now, applying this same law to "us" would be stupid, which is why it won't happen.

Re:Hacker Extortion Target

[Anonymous Coward]

If in the future, a republican president visits any town in the US and shuts the the airport and motorcade route down for nothing but a political fundraiser, it would be perfectly acceptable to you right?

Re:Hacker Extortion Target

[Anonymous Coward]

Well that's a typical American way of looking at it, it's a democrat/republican thing. Ha! You fuckers are weird.

Re:Hacker Extortion Target

[SCPaPaJoe]

The value of my '78 corvette just skyrocketed!

Re:Hacker Extortion Target

[Concerned Onlooker]

What do you mean, "in the future?" I live in L.A. where Obama has caused traffic jams from street closures many times on his fund raising visits here. Without any special devices being built into our cars.

Re:Hacker Extortion Target

[sociocapitalist]

It only takes a FEW cars disabled in key intersections to plug city streets.
Police could do this, or criminals could do it keep police away from the bank heist (or what ever).
Or the mythical terrorists, I suppose.

Its bad enough when Obama visits any town in the US and shuts the the airport and motorcade route down
for nothing but a political fundraiser. Can you imagine this technology loose in wild?

I guarantee if this gets passed in the EU it will arrive in the US in short order. Every time there is
a police chase anywhere, there will be a hue and cry from the usual useful idiots lobbying for this on
all cars.

You're assuming it doesn't already exist in the US.

And yes this is paranoia but with the way things have been with the NSA of late it's almost like anything that can be thought of has been or is being done.

Re:Hacker Extortion Target

[icebike]

Well there is a whole lot of car hackers out there, some of which write better ECM software than the guys in Detroit. They would have found it by now.
Nobody has found a verified case of Boston brakes yet, but that hasn't stopped the rumors.

Re:Hacker Extortion Target

[Anonymous Coward]

... every other car on the autobahn comes to a halt at 1pm. ...

So the next car crashes into the stopped car. We see something similar at the end of the movie 'Horrible bosses', so the technology is already implemented.

... $10 million, (finger twist) ...

Blackmail requires 'hanging around' to collect the money, then escaping from the people who have surrounded him. Think more towards the serial murderer/rapist who doesn't have to use the old tricks: Flashing bubble lights and a security uniform, or "your car is on fire" scare tactics, or following someone home and breaking-in while she sleeps. When a few school-girls disappear after doing the night-shift at Burger King, the sheeple will realize that giving absolute power to strangers doesn't provide security.

Re:Hacker Extortion Target

[fritsd]

newspaper article:

"In other news, this morning during rush hour there was a random glitch in the Car Safety System, not caused by anything like blackmail at all (how dare you suggest such a thing!) which stopped every other car on the autobahn until .. the situation was resolved. Spokespeople said the CSS is very safe, and such glitches will not happen very often again. Possibly."

Re:Hacker Extortion Target

[Bob the Super Hamste]

Another win for for my MG Midget as well.

Since this is coming out of the EU lets hope the module is made by Lucas Electric.

Re:Hacker Extortion Target

[CimmerianX]

It does exist now.... The new hyundai models come with the Blu-Link bullcrap that allows the Blu-Link operator to remotely shut off your engine. There's no way to disable it because the system ties into the onboard computer....

Re:Hacker Extortion Target

[Anonymous Coward]

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/1/16/20-subpoenas-issuedinchrischristietrafficscandal0.html

This has probably already been linked.

DOS traffic jam, anyone?

[kimgkimg]

First hack will put a end to that pretty quickly I suspect.

Re:DOS traffic jam, anyone?

[Megane]

Except for the little problem that the first hack probably won't happen until it's already been installed into a few hundred thousand of cars. Kind of hard to "put an end to that" when you basically have to bring in an enormous number of cars one-by-one to have it disabled. And I can be sure there will be a first hack, because the kind of people who come up with crap don't understand computer security (or cryptography), which means it will become as wide open as DVD CSS.

Re:DOS traffic jam, anyone?

[gweihir]

The problem is that these will be in a lot of cars when the first hack occurs.

Re:DOS traffic jam, anyone?

[Gonoff]

Another problem?

When it does happen, enough official lies will be told that we won't know the real cause for a long time...

Re:DOS traffic jam, anyone?

[myth24601]

More likely the first hack will lead to lawsuits against the car manufacturers. (well, if this were done in the USA at least)

I've a hatchback!

[Anonymous Coward]

I've already got a back door!

Re:I've a hatchback!

[tompaulco]

I've got TWO.

Re:I've a hatchback!

[viperidaenz]

I've got 3 back doors!

terrible idea

[Anonymous Coward]

i bet this technology will probably not be secure and will pose security risks, and this will be brought up only after its on all of our cars

Soon to bring Los Angeles traffic everywhere

[ackthpt]

As soon as this is hacked and becomes the plaything of miscreants.

What could possibly go wrong?

[onkelonkel]

About 5 minutes after this is implemented, the protocols will be cracked. About 5 minutes later some prankster will be broadcasting the "kill" signal to every car in Paris from a lunchbox portable radio from the top of the Eiffel tower.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh. That would be so wrong. Just sit in front of the Parliament with a weaker signal.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[amiga3D]

Of course, some people will have their automobiles exempted because some people are more equal than others.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's it, no more cheesy 80's Duran Duran music videos for you!

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[bob_super]

You want it gone? Trigger it newcaster's cars... Over and over again.

Because nothing is as important as the things that affect journalists directly. Negative coverage every day as story number one, on every channel and print, is how you make politicians run in fear.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

Those pigs at it again!

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[wiredlogic]

You won't have to hack anything. A clipped antenna feeding the compromised module or a Faraday cage around an encapsulated RF receiver will do the trick.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

I was going to say, if thief's can crack and steal cars that manufactures claimed were "secure" from theft. What in the world makes the EU think that isn't going to be the case with these cut off boxes? Not to mention the hackers, attackers that will play pranks on normal drivers...

Kind off defeats the purpose of secretively passing something like this, when it is already in the wild. And I doubt it would stay quiet before auto employees/mechanics get curious and ask what the box is for? Even if manufactures secretly made it part of the dash assemble its going to get out to the underground about this.

Being a mechanic I can get around a lot of these safety features.... You pretty much have a car of the old days, of course with more infotainment [as they ridiculously call it].

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

If your car is surrounded on all sides by cars that are shut off, you'll discover just how equal you are.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

And others will exempt themselves like they do for things like locks, or passwords. /shrug

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[jbmartin6]

I am not at all sure that this is very likely? What would the prankster have to gain? Sure it might be possible, but possible without getting caught? Those are two different things. In defense of this I will offer an example. it is well known that the Internet could be screwed up by messing with BGP routing. Pakistan did it once and denied access to YouTube. Why haven't your pranksters brought down the Internet?

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[jbmartin6]

And of course I apologize for the inappropriate question mark on the first sentence.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[fritsd]

You're doing it wrong.. Of course the car will only be able to drive *as long as it keeps receiving the official "you're allowed" signal*.

Reminds me of FlexLM license manager program in the '90s. Look at it wrong, and it decides you're trying to tamper with its functions, and kills all legitimate paid for use of the licensed program.

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[meta-monkey]

What's the point of having power if you don't abuse it?

Re:What could possibly go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course. For the hack and assorted criminals in government.

My car already has 2 back doors

[Gothmolly]

And a hatchback door, so I guess you could say there are 3 back doors.

Way to write a headline, editors. How about something a little better like "EU Secretly Plans To Put a Back Door in Every Car ECU by 2020" ?

Re:My car already has 2 back doors

[Anonymous Coward]

But, given you've primed my brain with "EU", it then resolves "ECU" as the original codename for the Euro currency.

Re:My car already has 2 back doors

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Way to write a headline, editors.

Right! Slashdot's target audience are people who hear "back door" and think physical door.
Stupid editors don't have a clue who reads their own website.

Re:My car already has 2 back doors

[LMariachi]

Right! Slashdot's target audience are people who hear "back door" and think physical door.

They probably think “porn.”

Re:My car already has 2 back doors

[sconeu]

What if I only want a 2-door coupe?

Re:My car already has 2 back doors

[viperidaenz]

Not all cars have backdoors. Rroadsters and coupés for example.

Re:My car already has 2 back doors

[JWW]

You know the target audience knows better and is fully aware what kind of backdoor is being talked about here.

But that audience is also filled with snarky nerds that pretty much guarantee the GP comment would be made.

Heck, I was going to make that comment myself but Gothmolly beat me to it.

Re:My car already has 2 back doors

[Anonymous Coward]

One of them has to go in the back.

Re:My car already has 2 back doors

[Darinbob]

I was worried too, because I thought this proposal would mean the end of the coupe.

Re:My car already has 2 back doors

[Anonymous Coward]

Right! Slashdot's target audience are people who hear "back door" and think physical door.

They probably think “porn.”

"What are you doing behind that car, young man?"

Re:My car already has 2 back doors

[meta-monkey]

But I poop from there...

So...

[Yaztromo]

Does that mean only hatchbacks will be permitted in the EU going forward?

(Note to eds: bad titles are bad, and will be mocked.)

Yaz

Re:So...

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, hatchbacks will still be permitted to go backwards, you'll just have to install a fold-down windscreen kit first.

Re:So...

[Anonymous Coward]

Does that mean only hatchbacks will be permitted in the EU going forward?

Yes, all other cars will only be permitted to go backwards.

Say what?

[TangoMargarine]

According to The Daily Telegraph a group of senior EU officials, including several Home Office mandarins, have

Is 'mandarin' the new 'chinaman' or something?

Re:Say what?

[gaudior]

Full Definition of MANDARIN
1
a : a public official in the Chinese Empire of any of nine superior grades
b (1) : a pedantic official (2) : bureaucrat

Re:Say what?

[compro01]

Mandarin

(informal, UK) A senior civil servant.

Re:Say what?

[ctaylor]

Well, the dictionary definition is:

1. A member of any of the nine ranks of high public officials in the Chinese Empire.
2. A high government official or bureaucrat.
3. A member of an elite group, especially a person having influence or high status in intellectual or cultural circles.

It's sometimes used in a negative manner, especially with definitions 2 & 3.

Re:Say what?

[RenderSeven]

4. A small orange that comes in a can.

Ive long suspected that my traitorous canned oranges were plotting against me, skulking about the pantry in their RF shielded little can-bunkers, using their knowledge of citrus-based automotive control technology.

Re:Say what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mandarin
Delicious, multi-sectioned, citrus fruit.

Re:Say what?

[CohibaVancouver]

4. A small orange that comes in a can.

In a can? Really? Here in Vancouver, ours come in 2-kilo boxes, with the oranges wrapped in green paper, usually around Christmas time.

Never seen them in a can.

http://www.vanwhole-produce.com/wp-content/themes/vwf/images/products/13.gif

Re:Say what?

[RenderSeven]

No! Don't let them collaborate! They are dangerous enough as individuals let alone in packs! The seemingly innocuous green paper disguises are just to put you off guard of their sinister intents.

http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/03/89/00/04/0003890004205_500X500.jpg

Re:Say what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Here in Vancouver, ours come in 2-kilo boxes

What, they don't come in bags up there?

Re:Say what?

[TangoMargarine]

Seems like a rather random demographic to associate with the ubiquitous post of civil servant...I assume it's a reference to the former large and organized Chinese empire (? kingdom?), but still.

Re:Say what?

[Anonymous Coward]

like an orange, but smaller

Re:Say what?

[Anonymous Coward]

You've got it all wrong. It's because their senior civil servants are small and sweet, and you can easily get them to unpeel.

Re:Say what?

[Anonymous Coward]

mandarin is what civil servants in China were called. The official language of China, spoken by the mandarins, is also called mandarin. The mandarins were chosen by scoring high on essay exams on which you have to demonstrate what an orthodox Confucian you are; similar to how today's civil servants are chosen by scoring high on essay exams in which you demonstrate what an orthodox progressive you are.

Re:Say what?

[CohibaVancouver]

Yes, of course, bags too. That goes without saying. Certainly never in jars though.

Re:Say what?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought mandarin was a type of fruit.

Re:Say what?

[Xest]

No it's a type of orange. We figured out in the UK that politicians are an expensive waste of space so we just place oranges on the chairs where they used to sit.

This is why the UK is currently the fastest growing economy in the G7, replacing politicians with oranges has been wildly effective.

I worry about the script kiddies

[arbiterxero]

...suddenly a vulnerability is found and a kid rips off the first DDOT (Distributed Denial of Transportation)

and all of London's cars come to a grinding halt...

Re:I worry about the script kiddies

[DougOtto]

and all of London's cars come to a grinding halt...

And this will be different than the M1 or M25 during rush hour how?

Re:I worry about the script kiddies

[Anonymous Coward]

rush hour will last all night too!

Sounds familiar

[Anonymous Coward]

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Atmospheric_Omission_System

Mandarins

[hammeraxe]

What the.....

Re:Mandarins

[Anonymous Coward]

Oval, orange fruits. Little less acidic than oranges, and very different from apples.

Re:Mandarins

[mcgrew]

They must be talking about minivans.

OnStar

[Anonymous Coward]

USA beat you to it.

Re:OnStar

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup. Way back in 1995.

If a satellite, cell tower, and sooner or later a radio can network with your car...you are fucked.

Secret back door?

[Anonymous Coward]

My car already has a back door, I prefer to call it a "trunk" due to some obscure chain of etymology that (sadly) has nothing to do with elephants.

So does this mean the EU is planning to add additional trunks to cars, or simply not tell car owners about the trunks already there and hope they don't notice?

Re:Secret back door?

[Anonymous Coward]

My car already has a back door, I prefer to call it a "trunk"

Hey this is a very very funny and highly unexpected piece of comedy. Thanks to you and all the other posters who took the time and creativity to bring this bit of clever punditry to my attention.

Re:Secret back door?

[Chris Mattern]

My car already has a back door, I prefer to call it a "trunk" due to some obscure chain of etymology that (sadly) has nothing to do with elephants.

Silly boy, this story's from Britain. You need to call it a "boot" (which has a chain of etymology that does in fact involve footwear).

Re:Secret back door?

[Anonymous Coward]

But it does have a lot to do with trunks. You know, a chest, a box with a lid, etc....

Some secret.

[Rob_Bryerton]

Wow, some secret. Who'd they hire to keep this data "secret"? The fuckin' NSA?

Zing!

Re:Some secret.

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, much secret, very backdoor!

"According to The Telegraph..."

[newcastlejon]

Call me when they release these "classified documents", name the "mandarins" concerned and find someone who can give a more reasoned opinion than Nijel "why does this man deserve equal coverage on the BBC?" Farage, otherwise I'll just assume this is just more of The Telegraph's usual anti-EU ranting.

Oh, look, the Mail's covering it too.
Fancy that.

For heaven's sake, there's more than enough EU bumbling going on as it is without editors concocting more of their own.

Re:"According to The Telegraph..."

[IamTheRealMike]

More to the point, I'm struggling to get excited about this idea - the document is probably right that high speed car chases are extremely dangerous. The people in the article going "zomg what if it goes off accidentally in traffic" amaze me. What if it goes off accidentally? Er, the car glides to a halt. What if someone is in a high speed car chase? Better not be a pedestrian in the way ....

I'm usually pretty concerned about erosions of civil liberties, but seriously, if you're being chased by the cops and you're a human rights activist - things already went so badly wrong that being able to outdrive the pursuers seems like the least of your problems.

The questions about whether it could be made secure are very real and important, for sure, but again .... if you're worried about hackers stopping cars, well, nothing stops some random asshat from dropping nails on a motorway either.

Re:"According to The Telegraph..."

[Anonymous Coward]

The whole story reeks of "reporter who knows absolutely zilch about science/engineering". A "six year development timeframe" is hysterically reinterpreted as "mandatory by 2020".

I suspect what it's reporting is a genuine R&D programme, which the EU may well be subsidising under one of its myriad technology development programmes, but has no better than a 50/50 chance of even succeeding in its stated goals (to develop a technology that could reliably do this), and its prospects of "being fitted in every new car by 2020" are about as good as my chances of becoming Home Secretary in the same timeframe.

Re:"According to The Telegraph..."

[Geizh]

A car stuck in the middle of the motorway is dangerous. Dropping nails requires physical access and isn't scalable.

Re:"According to The Telegraph..."

[Anonymous Coward]

> nothing stops some random asshat from dropping nails on a motorway either.
Physically carrying nails, standing around a motorway bridge dropping nails, being seen etc. Think those do.

If you think it's such a good idea, do you also agree to a back door to all new mandatory electronic locks to your home, encryption etc?

If not why not since it facilitates a similar public good?

Re:"According to The Telegraph..."

[viperidaenz]

and if you're worried about car jackers? You could just not stop your car for them in the middle of nowhere... oh wait, they could stop your car for you.

Re:"According to The Telegraph..."

[rolfwind]

Hello Sir,

We have Patriot Act v3.0 coming into congress soon and we need more level headed humans rights activists acting as Representatives like you on board to ensure it's passage for the safety of the people and future of the children.

Please sign up at your nearest Democrat or Republican office to run in November asap so we can fund your run.

Sincerely,
Corporate Freedom Fighters International
"Fighting for better future FUD tommorrow today."

Re:"According to The Telegraph..."

[TubeSteak]

Call me when they release these "classified documents",

http://www.statewatch.org/news/2014/jan/eu-enlets-wp-2014-2020.pdf

I found it at the website named in TFA: http://www.statewatch.org/news/
There's no reason not to link directly to these documents, but news organizations rarely seem to.

Re:"According to The Telegraph..."

[Anonymous Coward]

Read the BBC article.

Re:"According to The Telegraph..."

[Anonymous Coward]

I've lost power at rush hour in dense high speed traffic. I was the left lane and there was no shoulder on that side. It was a very dangerous situation, especially since traffic in my city will actively work to keep you from changing lanes! I made it over the the right shoulder. Gliding to a halt isn't always an safe option.

Re:"According to The Telegraph..."

[Xest]

As a citizen of a country that drives on the left I was a little disturbed that you seemed to be suggesting you were trying to move your car from the slow lane into the fast. In fact, I couldn't understand what the big deal was with you losing power in the slow lane.

Then I figured you must live in a country that drives on the right.

Don't Worry, It Will Never Be Hacked

[Anonymous Coward]

Because no one could possibly want to abuse the ability to turn off any random vehicle they wanted to, like say, in the middle of a busy highway during rush hour. And because no one would ever think of hacking it, the courts wouldn't believe it was anything but the driver being a jackass, just like no one figured out how to bypass immobilizers.

~# sh gridl0ck -horns -flashinglights -lockdoors

[bazmail]

At least the inevitable war-driving hacks for this will put IT security center stage and not the usual 30 second slot in the late evening news.

I thought I read where this was a secret

[X-Ray Artist]

If that is true, than someone leaked it. They should be found and tried for treason. Isn't that what happens to people who let the public know how the government is ......

Re:I thought I read where this was a secret

[Zynder]

Nope, they get free passes to Soviet Bloc countries. Now you could argue that that is a punishment fitting for treason and you won't hear me refute it!

Grrr

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks Cameron. :|

Yeah, Right.

[Anonymous Coward]

The daily fail regurgitating your usual torygraph EU scaremongering with no direct references to the claimed source material.
Let's see how many days until there's a tiny retraction on page 37.

Tin Foil Hats

[mk1004]

Because the Daily Mail is like the Onion, only the jokes are by accident.

Re:Tin Foil Hats

[Anonymous Coward]

Ugh. You fuck's don't even try anymore. The proper format is a yo mamma joke.

"That's what yo mamma said about you too..."

See. That has a much better ring to it. It flows really. Just rolls off the tongue...just like how yo mamma's clit rolled off my tongue last night.

FUCKING. AMATEUR.

Re:Tin Foil Hats

[zwarte piet]

You must be new here.

UK tabloid "reporting" about EU

[Anonymous Coward]

The Daily Mail, a tabloid the word "sewer press" was invented for. A UK tabloid writing about the EU.

Now that must be an interesting article. I really really want to read it... NOT!

sweet!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hatchbacks are very useful... oh wait, what?

Wouldn't

[Anonymous Coward]

locking the transmission into neutral murder far fewer people if the cops ever actually had to hit this thing? I probably wouldn't remember the power brakes were good exactly one time with the five-oh chasing me.

Is it called ATMOS?

[Anonymous Coward]

My guess is the government will have it installed as a Atmospheric Omission System that filters CO2. Better be careful though, I haven't heard of The Doctor being around.

Typical British story

[Teun]

They forget about other EU nations parliaments and only mention their own 'House of Commons'.

More significantly they forget about the EU parliament.

Had The Telegraph serious worries about this EU police group they would have included opinions from other EU member states.

Further these discussions are not 'secret', at best they are confidential, not exactly unusual for police matters and concerning our security.

But this proposal is indeed a move to the unwanted and unnecessary, yet totally along the lines of the present Cameron government, Cameron has already proven he'll support any increase in surveillance 'for the good of our children'.

So for me no surprise what-so-ever the UK police and 'Home Office Mandarins' have signed off on it, as a matter of fact I wouldn't be surprised the forces promoting this idea are mainly British...

Re:Typical British story

[gbjbaanb]

well, I say forget this dangerous, insta-hacked concept... go back to what you think of every time you watch those cop-chase TV shows: police helicopters should be armed with missiles to stop those scumbag car chases. Its the only truly safe way - after all, if you remotely-immobilise a fleeing car carrying criminals, they will just get out and run away!

Note, also works against terrorists. I can only think they didn't go for this simply because the liberal democrats threatened to vote against it. Either that or the Americans have patented the idea already :(

Re:Typical British story

[Teun]

Absolutely, the only way to save our kids is to have armed Apache attack choppers in the air 24/7!

Or we could just ban all travel.

*Every* car? Not on your life.

[sehlat]

Five gets you one hundred that, assuming this agreement actually exists, there are exceptions in it for cars being used by high officials and the well-enough-connected-to-pay-sufficient-bribes.

Re:*Every* car? Not on your life.

[Anonymous Coward]

What about the police cars themselves?

If it truly is "every" car then there should be no exceptions.

Re:*Every* car? Not on your life.

[jxander]

Probably true, but what about the peasant vehicle driving down the highway directly in front of Mr. High Official? Or directly behind

Would be quite the shame if those vehicles suddenly came to a screeching halt or accelerated uncontrollably. A shame indeed

Onstar remote disabling

[ardmhacha]

OnStar has had the ability to remotely disable a car for years

http://latimesblogs.latimes.co...

Re:Onstar remote disabling

[Cro Magnon]

Shouldn't they rename themselves "OffStar"?

OnStar coming to EU?

[Anonymous Coward]

Lots of the above posts go on and on about hackers, yet I don't hear about this happening to all those OnStar equiped vehicles that have the ability to remotely disable your engine.

Re:OnStar coming to EU?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8bq6t_DLJY

Re:OnStar coming to EU?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're wise to post that as AC. Convenient truths like that are guaranteed flamebait mods. OnStar has been here for quite awhile now, and Chevys aren't flying off bridges, exploding randomly, or holding passengers for ransom because of dem h4xx0rs. This is a troll article which feeds all the kneejerking retards and whips them into an angry mob.
1/10 total weaksauce. I frown on Dice's shenanigans.

Re:OnStar coming to EU?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/03/hacker-bricks-cars/
I am sure with EVERY car running the same system the motivation for hacking will be higher.

Re:OnStar coming to EU?

[CimmerianX]

I wouldn't call that guy a hacker.... just an ex employee with access. Plus he was dumb enough to do the breakin from his home's network connection.

The End

[slapout]

And so it begins.

Re:The End

[Chris Mattern]

And so it begins.

It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

Re:The End

[Anonymous Coward]

So, it has come to this.

They Want Back Doors In My Car?

[organgtool]

Looks like it's time for a coupe

Re:They Want Back Doors In My Car?

[Anonymous Coward]

Coupe de TaTa

I can see this being reversed

[Chrisq]

I can see this being reversed the first time a Muzzy disables a politicians car in a terror attack.

Re:I can see this being reversed

[Anonymous Coward]

I can see disabling a politician's car being considered a terrorist attack.

Re:The EU

[0123456]

Where all member states are gathered *as equals* to do what Germany wants.

While that's often true, I'm sure I remember the British government suggesting this some years ago.

What usually seems to happen is that EU governments who want to impose draconian rules but can't get them past their own voters go to the EU, get it passed there, and then say 'sorry, we can't stop it, it's the EU, got to to what they tell us, boy, we're so totally upset about this'.

If it's legitimate, why is it secret?

[guanxi]

People like to argue that these kinds of surveillance and control are legitimate and nobody cares about them; if so, then why are they done in secret?

Re:If it's legitimate, why is it secret?

[stenvar]

Because it's Europe. Governments spend a shitload of time and money to indoctrinate their citizens from near birth to worship them, and they don't want their citizens to start doubting them. They do have a few more levels of defense beyond secrecy: control of the media, and if all else fails, they'll just lock up whoever leaked it and blame the US or international bankers or global corporations.

Re:If it's legitimate, why is it secret?

[fritsd]

Yes Stenvar, you're exactly right. Oh and for your own safety and well-being, be sure to never ever visit Europe. Thanks! ;-)

Re:If it's legitimate, why is it secret?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've spent several years in Europe and still visit regularly.

That's why I know what's going on. It's also why I understand why you and other Europeans don't know what's going on. Doesn't matter how much Europe decays around you, you've always held firm to your belief that you are superior to the rest of the world.

If it's secret...

[trailerparkcassanova]

why do we know about it?

Re:This will never be hacked by carjackers

[Anonymous Coward]

Unlike the shining beacon of freedom that is the UK.
Mandatory internet filtering.
Forgot your Truecrypt password? Go to jail.
"avoiding CCTV field of vision" is probable cause for a search.

Demonstration

[SuperKendall]

It only takes a FEW cars disabled in key intersections to plug city streets.

See Movie: The Italian Job

(either one will do to illustrate the concept).

Re:Demonstration

[amiga3D]

That is such a cool movie.

Dailymail story on EU: Guaranteed to be wrong

[Paul Jakma]

Dear Slashdot,

You've posted a story from the Dailymail that has the form "EU wants to do outrageous thing!". The Dailymail has a long track record of:

a) Hating the EU.

b) Printing utter falsehoods about supposed plans "the EU" has, at least in their headlines and leading text.

E.g., a previous instance, which I complained to the PCC about (who turn out to be toothless and/or cowards): http://paul.jakma.org/2011/11/... .

Please do not feed the Dailymail troll.

Posting on /. thru twitter

[Archfeld]

How low can you go ?

Member states aren't blamesless here

[Anonymous Coward]

Key paragraph:

The remote stopping and other surveillance plans have been signed off by the EU's Standing Committee on Operational Cooperation on Internal Security, known as Cosi, meaning that the project has the support of senior British Home Office civil servants and police officers.

The EU doesn't do much law enforcement. They mostly provide a platform for cooperation between national law enforcement agencies through Europol. To commentate more on that story, we really need to know if Enlets works as a "central" agency or if it's mostly a meeting place for representants from national law enforcement agencies. I suspect the latter as law enforcement is a prerogative of the member states.

Re:This will never be hacked by carjackers

[rvw]

Good to know that the security will be impervious to attack. and that police will never make a mistake when using it.
  Seriously though Germany (which runs the EU) is reverting back to its Nazi roots with every piece of privacy busting legislation.

No offense mate, but the Germans are the only ones to be trusted in this regard. They - the people - are the only ones who take all this shit seriously and who are willing to protest, and they make a difference. I'm Dutch, which is supposed to be liberal and we always pretend to stand up against injustice, but in reality most people here don't care.

Mostly nonsense

[Grumbleduke]

This story is mostly nonsense.

There's a thing called ENLETS (or European Network of Law Enforcement Technology Services), which is meant to be "the leading European platform that strengthens police cooperation and bridges the gap between the users and providers of law enforcement technology." From what I can tell it is a sort of advisory committee of law enforcement technology experts, working through Europol, who brainstorm how to use technology to help law enforcement stuff. Currently it gets about €600k in funding, mostly from the EU, some from the UK and the Netherlands. They're asking for that to be increased to €915k. Most of that seems to be in hiring some new full-time advisers; from their personnel costs, they want about 8 people working full time; a leader, a policy officer, and admin person and 5 senior advisers. So if they don't get their budget increase, there's a good chance none of this stuff will happen.

This article is based on a "secret" document (which I think is this one), which is a (draft?) work programme for the group for 2014-2020; so what they're supposed to be looking at.

This document stems from a recommendation by the Council of the European Union that ENLETS look into this kind of thing - the instructions etc. can be found here (or if that doesn't work, search for document 12103/13 on their search page). They asked ENLETS to monitor and coordinate the development of new technologies.

The actual "secret" document is listed on the Council's website (do a search for 17365/13) as "Law Enforcement Technology Services (ENLETS) 2014 - 2020 - Work programme", but the document itself isn't accessible. I don't know whether that's because it's such a minor report (and not really an official EU thing) that they haven't bothered uploading it, or if they are claiming it should be withheld; I'm tempted to make a formal request for it to see what they say.

The five short-term goals they have been asked to look at are in some places a bit scary:

1. Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) - ANPR is well established in many MS. In 2013/14 ENLETS will support those MS who feel the need to enhance their capabilities by sharing best practices. The ANPR systems will be measured by its maturity, capabilities and their deployment.
2. Open Source Intelligence - Open source intelligence is a prioritized topic due to the evolving internet and wireless communication systems. For law enforcement it is a source of information as well as a method of communication. Open source intelligence relates to frontline policing (events, crowd control) and criminal investigations (search for evidence, monitoring and surveillance). In this project the handling of open sources will be assessed and ranked.
3. Signal Intelligence - Law Enforcement Agencies (LEAs) deploy many kinds of sensors, mostly connected to their IT systems. The sensors need to enhance the operational capability of the LEAs, but often the integration of these sensors and IT systems cause technological problems. Frequently sensor data cannot be integrated, stored or displayed due to the design, protocols and construction of IT systems. What kind of signal intelligence is the most operationally effective and open for integrating the sensors in the EU? What kind of concept will be needed as ever more data is forwarded for processing and more information needs to be analysed?
4. Surveillance - Surveillance uses many types of technology. In this topic focus will be on sharing the best video systems (quality, performance in several scenarios). The purpose of this topic is to match the best standards in video used by the industry to the end user requirements. Privacy enhanced technology and transparency are key issues.
5. Remote St

Re:Mostly nonsense

[Luckyo]

And it's working even here on slashdot, where people are supposed to be significantly smarter than average.

Which is why drivel like this is being published. It sells.

Boston Brakes

[drwho]

...from CSI.

I predict lucrative markets for . . .

[dogsbreath]

1. Jailbreaking vulnerable car systems

2. After-market engine performance and firewall firmware/hardware replacements

3. Advanced "radar" detectors which now become AIPS and AIDS (Authority Intrusion Prevention & Detection Systems)

4. Automotive GPS spoofs

etc etc

My guess is that since the NSA revelations, it is easy to give wing to any story about government intrusion into everyday life. It might even be true. I am sure that even if this story is out of the Weekly World News* bin, somebody in authority has given thought to the idea.

*things like: 26ft Chicken Caught in Texas and Alien Backs Bush in Election

Re:I predict lucrative markets for . . .

[Anonymous Coward]

Kiss goodbye to any insurance claim then, any single item they can use to NOT pay out. They WILL use against you.

I strongly suggest also fitting an in car camera forward facing and rear facing (as long as YOU yourself are a good driver :) ), that usually gets insurances companies to pay out. Disabling items in the car that they list in their insurance cover... you do NOT want to tamper with, unless you like to lose insurance claims.

Re:I predict lucrative markets for . . .

[the eric conspiracy]

Combine that with autonomous vehicles and you could have all sorts of fun. For example an activist could spam a local chemical company with several thousand cars barricading their plant.

Or a businessman could pay a hacker to have every car driving by his location to stop for 30 seconds in order to give maximum exposure to his billboards and other signage.

Re:I predict lucrative markets for . . .

[dogsbreath]

Yes! Exactly.

Think of anything that happens to personal computers and servers on the internet now and then imagine automobiles being rooted and forced into remote servitude.

I like the way you think.

Combine this with NFC purchasing and the obesity/heart disease problem could go through the roof with massive line ups at Jack-In-De-Box or what ever your favourite fat delivery system is.

Re:I predict lucrative markets for . . .

[dogsbreath]

Awww . . . you're already worrying about what the overlords will do. What they don't know won't hurt me.

Re:I predict lucrative markets for . . .

[GrahamCox]

You left out 5. second-hand cars.

Re:I predict lucrative markets for . . .

[mark-t]

How do you figure they would't be able to find out when you file a claim? Or do you think you'll be able to still have a claim while not letting them inspect your vehicle?

Re:I predict lucrative markets for . . .

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot:-

5. "Classic" Cars (the article says that the backdoor will be installed in new cars by 2020, not existing ones)

Police Cars too

[seven of five]

Of course, this will include police cars, vehicles for diplomats, government limos...

Secretly

[jbssm]

But, all the cars over here already have a back door and its quite visible. We call it trunk.

man Darrins?

[Thud457]

Dick York or Sargent?

More importantly, Julie Newmar, Eartha Kitt or Lee Meriwether. Those are the only choices.

When you say "secret..."

[wonkey_monkey]

When the headline/summary/article says "secret" does that mean "knowledge (previously) restricted to authorised people" or the journalistic meaning of "most people just didn't know about it until now"?

Re:When you say "secret..."

[wonkey_monkey]

Also plenty of people have "secret meetings" all the time, in the sense that they don't announce them to the public.

"Secret"

[Arancaytar]

You keep using that word.

Will be used by criminals

[rolfwind]

Back in 1989, Alfred Herrhausen, a banker, was assasinated with a fairly complex bomb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...
http://www.wired.com/dangerroo...

Herrhausen fell victim to a sophisticated roadside bomb shortly after leaving his home in Bad Homburg on 30 November 1989. He was being chauffeured to work in his armoured Mercedes-Benz, with bodyguards in both a lead vehicle and another following behind. The bomb had been hidden in a saddle bag on a bicycle next to the road that the assassins knew Herrhausen would be traveling in his three-car convoy. In the bag was a 7 kg bomb that was detonated when Herrhausen's car interrupted a beam of infrared light as it passed the bicycle. The bomb targeted the most vulnerable area of Herrhausen's car â" the door where he was sitting â" and required split-second timing to overcome the car's special armour plating. The bomb utilized a Misznay-Schardin mechanism. A copper plate, placed between the explosive and the target, was deformed and projected by the force of the explosion. It is unlikely that this improvised explosive device had the precise engineering required to form the liner into a more effective slug or "carrot" shape (as in a shaped charge or an EFP)[citation needed] but in any case, the detonation resulted in a mass of copper being projected toward the car at a speed of nearly two kilometers per second, effectively penetrating the armoured Mercedes. Herrhausen's legs were severed and he bled to death.

Does anyone think that police codes will remain secret on these?

Soon, cars will be going through the wrong side of towns, they will look expensive and the people well dress, and suddenly the cars will turn off, and the people get car jacked middrive.

A well timed / placed DoS / DDoS Attack will be th

[Joe_Dragon]

A well timed / placed DoS / DDoS Attack will be the end of this as all it will take is a few may even one attack at peak time to kill this idea.

Insurance premiums lower then?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think having lower insurance premiums would be a nice way to get this acceptable. I have no problems with this since I regularly transport faraday cages... (The car itself is one :) ).

Re:Insurance premiums lower then?

[zwarte piet]

Nah, prices don't go down. Everybody who hasn't got it will pay more.

Re:Insurance premiums lower then?

[zwarte piet]

...for 5 years. After that, the "reduction" will be cancelled and everybody pays the higher prices. Been seing that pattern repeat for years.

Wonkavision

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

It's OK. We modern folk have given up on the need for an archaic legislative body and want unelected regulators stating things that become law*.

Up with wonks!

* Wonks tell us this is good.

It's already here.

[Grog6]

All cars with fly-by-wire tech can be turned off remotely, as well as any GM with onstar.

Already done years ago.

Re:It's already here.

[Tablizer]

All cars with fly-by-wire tech can be turned off remotely, as well as any GM with onstar.

Shouldn't that be OffStar?

Re:It's already here.

[viperidaenz]

All cars with fly-by-wire tech can be turned off remotely

Since when?
Don't forget, not all cars with electronic throttles control it with CAN.

Re:It's already here.

[wiredlogic]

You don't need drive-by-wire to make this work. You just need a backdoored ECU that can shut off fuel delivery on demand which most cars in use outside the third world have.

Re:It's already here.

[Trogre]

And you're... okay with this?

Re:It's already here.

[AK Marc]

Is there a Toyota joke in there somewhere? Even inside the car in the driver's seat, you can't turn it off or slow it down.

Re:It's already here.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes but this is *Europe* and therefore newsworthy since those filthy Euros a reall socialist subjects languising under autocratic governments.

Re:It's already here.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is why I ripped out the OnStar module from my car 3 minutes after taking possession of the vehicle...

Re:It's already here.

[Grog6]

All my cars are Way too old, lol. :)

Re:It's already here.

[Grog6]

The older cpus only do rpm limits and speed limiters; most obdII cars have speed limits that match the tires it comes with. :)

Treat it with a grain of salt

[DrXym]

The Telegraph is a far right newspaper which is staunchly anti-EU, anti-science, anti-immigrant and pro UKIP. Perhaps such a secret deal has happened, but it wouldn't be the first time that this rag has embellished the facts to suit its own agenda.

Back doors

[Anonymous Coward]

Its pretty well established, its been bad for business when they come in through the front door.

Re:This will never be hacked by carjackers

[Anonymous Coward]

Newsflash: The EU is modeled on the arrogant, nepotistic francophone way of government. Although they have some impact, the Germans cannot be said to be dominant in this evil system.

Personally, I'd rather be ruled by the Germans if given the choice between them and the French/Belgians/Italians (argh! no, really!)/Greek plus all of the new accession countries.

Re:The EU

[Anonymous Coward]

Hardly true, the UK is one of the WORLD LEADERS at instituting a monitored state. UK has had ANPR in their cars and on road cameras (expecially in central London ring of steel area) for decades. In fact the UK is one of the BIGGEST breakers of EU laws! (Especially human rights laws, and consumer laws).

LIKE A ROCK!

[Zynder]

Introducing the Chevy Gillette! Now with FIVE, count 'em, 5 back doors for the widest, easiest rear access available on any vehicle on the road today! Getting some junk into your trunk has never been easier!

Back door

[GameMaster]

They seem to be a little behind the times. Most cars already have a back door. It's usually referred to as a trunk, hatch, or boot. I'm pretty sure I'd notice it if they tried to put in a second one. Are they planning on making it a really really tiny door using nano-technology?

So buy a good car now...

[Anonymous Coward]

before they install this crap.

Obvious results

[Anonymous Coward]

It will be compromised within 6 months, though the authorities will probably not admit that for at least 3 years.
The compromised system will be used for criminal activity with 18 months.

Aid to legal law enforcement activities, minimal.
Aid to illegal activities, a freaking godsend.

Kit cars

[Anonymous Coward]

So criminals will just use kit cars.

Guilty until proven innocent

[cosmin_c]

I am starting to think there isn't really a place on this planet that won't be under surveillance at a point in the next 10-20 years. Buying a smartphone? Welcome to being under surveillance because you just might be a terrorist. Buy a car? Welcome to being under surveillance because you just might be a getaway driver (who's stupid enough to use his own car). I am all for more security measures to stop car thieves, thus I installed my own GPS tracker on my car, but that's something only I have access to, not everybody and their grandmother. Also, the problem with putting backdoors in stuff is making stuff less secure. What if somebody hacks your car and starts playing around with stuff just for lulz? I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

It's the phrase "at will" that concerns me most

[mark-t]

This whole idea stinks, but it's that expression that really has me worried, Because it does not in any way connote the notion that they necessarily would have any kind of remotely just cause to take such action. They could do so just because they wanted to... and not need any justification for the action because that's what "at will" means

Re:The EU

[Anonymous Coward]

That reminds me of the U.S.A.'s use of treaties and trade agreements.

Already do this in America

[WillAffleckUW]

Because we're East Germany. Or Russia.

Or both?

Secret

[mnt]

Every time there is the word secret, something bad or outrageous is about to happen.

OnStar already does this in GM cars

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have a newer GM vehicle, you can be remotely tracked and shutdown right now. The onstar gps/cellular transmitter is located in a very hard to reach area in the frame of your vehicle. It already is tied in to the ECM and can do lots of stuff for or to your car. It is meant to be impossible to remove without taking your car apart, which isn't impossible but a pain.

Its just another reason cars are so expensive. They all get the unit in the name of public safety.

Re:OnStar already does this in GM cars

[fritsd]

I thought GM was in dire straits due to the financial crisis of 2008, and had to think of ways to sell *more* cars to the public, rather than *less*.

On*

[Anonymous Coward]

So they're going to force every car to have OnStar?

wow :(

[CTU]

Secret meetings, when you know there will be public outcry and hate, but still want to pass it anyways.

Isn't that the trunk or boot?

[funky_vibes]

EU secretly plans to put a back door on cars without one?

It will be defeated.

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

Well they are going hide a transmitter in an enslaved car, right? Everyone will be working on scanners to locate their transmitters. Even a single mom stuck on dead end planet who gave birth by parthenogenesis to a precocious son who is deep into pod racing sub-culture would be working on scanners.

In the USA

[PortWineBoy]

We call that the "trunk."

Re:In the USA

[GrahamCox]

That same joke has been made many times already. It was lame the first time.

Daily Mail just making stuff up

[jonfr]

It appears that The Telegraph is just making this stuff up. They often do this to increase the anti-EU crowd in the UK.

The biggest fact that this story is false is the fact there are no secret EU bodies at work here.

http://europa.eu/about-eu/inst...

Journalist are also known to make up stories.

http://www.theguardian.com/med...
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/US...
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com...

Here are some EU myths busted.

http://youtu.be/oqVJEZnYiZo

The government

[Anonymous Coward]

deathwish continues...

Hasn't this already been done?

[Anonymous Coward]

Many larger power supply chips now have what appears to be fractional wave GHz antennas built into them. One appears to create some sort of FET bridge between the feedback circuit that will cause the chip to self destruct.

Costanza.jpg

[Anonymous Coward]

>>“I seriously hope you guys don’t do this”

ISHYGDDTblox

Not nonsense

[SuperKendall]

The wording is pretty clear they plan to BUILD the technology to enable remote stopping, not "see if they can think of a way". And from there it's a short run to real implementation.

If you don't care to have remote stopping in every care then you should be VERY concerned about any effort to make that happen, even if it were only "seeing if they could think of a way". We all know there are ways, any effort to start building out the capability is little different than final implementation.

At least as things stand we have a firewall in that the idea is infeasable. Lets keep that in place, not let them "just put in" the metaphorical tip and hope we don't wind up metaphorically pregnant.

Re:Not nonsense

[Grumbleduke]

I don't think the group is in a position to actually come up with any actual technology; just theories. They're starting from a point of "there is no way of doing this," not "there is nothing on the market that we could use", so they are being asked to come up with concepts, and asses their feasibility. I think, based on that, the other stuff I've read about ENLETS and the BBC's version of the story.

Even if the 8 of them did somehow invent a major piece of technology and be able to build it, that wouldn't be that different from any random inventors coming up with it, aside from the fact that they are being funded partly by the EU budget. And I don't see a problem with people seeing if this is possible, or could work. The decision as to whether it should be used or mandated is for the elected politicians and so on, not the technical experts.

Re:Not nonsense

[SuperKendall]

And I don't see a problem with people seeing if this is possible, or could work.

Except that PEOPLE are not seeing, it's a political group. if they can, it will go in cars because the very existence of the study answers the political question.

There are many easy ways you can implement this technology already, there's no need to "see" if it's possible. Putting such a group together can only be about hashing out the final implementation.

Re:Not nonsense

[Grumbleduke]

This isn't a political group. It is a group of law enforcement + technical experts. Their programme says that they are looking into the technical aspects, starting from the assumption that it isn't technically feasible, and seeing if they can think of a way of doing it.

Once they've done that, they'll report back to the politicians (well, the civil servants first) to say whether or not it can be done proportionately, and then it becomes a political issue if their answer is that it can be done, and those in charge still want to look into it.

It's a trap!

[Anonymous Coward]

The "back door" is billed as a great anti-pollution device ATMOS but it is really a Sontaran plot to take over the world!

Does this mean...

[Anonymous Coward]

that all new VW's will be hatchbacks? Coolness.

Something like this will be fitted to humans...

[Anonymous Coward]

...in the future. A group of people causing problems? Just turn 'em off!

Cisco makes cars now?

[Anonymous Coward]

from backdoored routers to backdoored cars, excellent.

Shhhhhh!

[JeremyWH]

Its a secret.. dont tell anyone else.. ok?

compound words

[eyenot]

At first I was like "hatchbacks are cool though" until I realized the article meant "backdoors".

Backdoor?

[Anonymous Coward]

Shit! No more sedans?

a secret?

[Anonymous Coward]

How is it a secret, if it's posted on /. where even the most commonly known news are being published 2 weeks late!

Privacy day

[Anonymous Coward]

Now consider this: the EU just had its ibternational privacy day. 28:th of january.

Gatso is Dutch

[CBravo]

Gatso is Dutch, says their homepage. And everybody hates them because speed is not unsafe per se, see airoplanes as an example.

I am more concerned about abuse of power, cops, with these kind of options.

Re:Gatso is Dutch

[Anonymous Coward]

because speed is not unsafe per se, see airoplanes as an example

Is this your opinion (that is why you hate cameras intended, ultimately, to deter speeding on tarmac roads by cars with rubber tires, or simply an opinion you're ascribing to others in the EU?

Next EU Election

[prefec2]

In September we can vote for the EU parliament. I hope that such news work as wakeup call to all those non voters. You actually can say no to such plans. But if you do not vote, conservatives will vote FOR such regulations.

Re:The EU

[Tom]

Bingo. They've been playing that game for a decade now. Like all good ideas, it only lasts until it gets abused and exploited.

These days the EU is little more than a way for politicians to pass the laws that would get their pants lit on fire in the local media if they tried it nationally.

The more I look at politicians these days, the more I think we should limit their activity to two terms max, after which we shoot them.

The other way around

[CBravo]

People used to protest in the Netherlands until they found out that their asses were kicked every time by the cops AND noone listens. Politicians are killing their own society by not listening to anyone.

Re:Secret meetings

[Anonymous Coward]

"Secret meetings" just means there's no evidence for it, i.e. they just made it up and explain the lack of corroboration because it's "secret". If there's any truth to this at all, then it's a small committee somewhere that spends their whole time thinking up crap ideas ... sorry, brainstorming ... and some other committee thought this one might kind of work.
However, the Telegraph is a known anti-EU rag, and the Mail (which just cites the Torygraph) is no better, so the whole thing's probably just bollocks. God forbid anyone should send them some phony "documents" to troll them.

Very good

[Anonymous Coward]

What could possibly go wrong?

We are the Borg...

[govett]

Government control expands. How long until they implant chips in citizens, to shut them down at will?

Mileage based car tax

[Anonymous Coward]

I never understood the reasoning behind the all out political pursuit for mileage based car tax. Now this shows its just the cover for the spying and police control state abilities it would provide.
(I assumed so far they were simply to stupid to understand that the gasoline taxes already do that in an eco-friendly way)

Let me enlighten you...

[Anonymous Coward]

Mandarin Oranges

l

Re:The EU

[Gonoff]

Don't forget patents, copyrights, tax regulations, extradition and many many more.

One or two, uh, overlooked opportunities.

[eeyore]

This is one of these clever technical fixes compromised by certain obvious problems opportunities.

• Powerful vintage cars with mechanically-driven ignition systems.
• Bad people who disable the cut-off device -it's their car after all!
• What would happen if a remote shut-off device were stolen or borrowed?
• A "home-built" remote shut-off device could be boon to criminals. Just the thing for that bullion job.

revisit of the old news

[Anonymous Coward]

this was once discussed, exploded, abandoned. the said purpose was to secure the car, watch the milage and etc etc. the kill switch that could stop the car is also discussed and denied by everyone, anyone.

BTW, forget my password, how can I reset?

Internal passports are next

[gelfling]

I can't wait for the EU to institute internal travel controls, 'for your safety'.

Why does it have to happen?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll tell you why: because it is the selfish nature of coercive authority to expand in both power and revenue throughout its lifetime, and given enough time, they will eventually need to get into the business of blatant authoritarianism (as opposed to disguised authoritarianism) in order to continue the growth of their business.

The low-hanging fruit is long gone, and what's left isn't quite as easy to disguise as "for the people".

Re:Why does it have to happen?

[amiga3D]

It's the nature of humans. Those in control seek to cement that control. It doesn't matter what type of government it is. It's limited in certain democracies as they have to work around Constitutional Laws designed to limit government power. Even so they keep gradually taking an inch here and there as they can, constantly pushing the limits.

woo hoo!

[Anonymous Coward]

This will make kidnappings and contract killings so much more easy!

Shut off their car remotely, and move in for the kill!

So they're all hatchbacks now.

[Anonymous Coward]

What's next side doors?

Re:The EU

[fritsd]

That reminds me of the U.S.A.'s use of treaties and trade agreements.

Heh "sorry, we'll just all have to harmonize our copyright law with Mexico. Oh! they have 100 years post mortem auctoris instead of 70?!? Gosh.. we didn't know"
(That's TPP I believe)

Re:This will never be hacked by carjackers

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry but you're an idiot. Look at which countries' voters have voted for left-wing, anti-authoritarian parties:
Germany vote 2013: (center-left, center and right wing parties 74.7%)
left wing party: 8.2%
green party: 7.3%
pirate party: 2.2%


UK vote 2010: (center-left, center and right wing parties 93.1%)
green party: 0.9%
pirate party: 0.0%
monster raving loony party: 0.0%
socialist/communist parties: 0.0%

(because of "first-past-the-post" they got 100% right wing parties coalition)

USA vote 2012: (center and right wing parties 98.2%)
libertarian party: 0.99%
green party: 0.36%

(because of "first-past-the-post" they got 100% center-right government but they don't even bother to vote for other parties anyway)

WW III (on roads)

[Max_W]

The WHO published the 2013 statistics of deaths in traffic accidents: http://www.who.int/violence_in...

1.24 million people were killed in traffic accident the last year, times more badly injured.

These are the figures consistent with the WW, but this time it is going on on the roads. A car is the main source of deadly traffic accidents.

If not this measure, but something must be done.

Re:liable Source

[hoboroadie]

Some sources do lack credibility, Fox News, Washington Times, Press TV, &c.; I had to google ENLETS before I gave it any credence.
Prejudice?
Prudence.

What that slow 70MPH you're talking about when cut

[Anonymous Coward]

... cutting off the engine? I routinely drive faster than that in cities and quite legally here in EU.

I prefer my 2 door coupe

[drakesword]

I don't want a back door, what would it lead to? The trunk? This is madness

Don't forget about taxes. And insurance.

[biggaijin]

In California, the legislature is already licking thier chops at the prospect of all cars being fitted with GPS transponders. The gasoline tax Californians pay was supposed to be used entirely for road and transportation infrastructure spending, but they have routinely siphoned it off into the general fund for years. Now, they say they don't have enough money to maintain the roads. Solution: A new, additional tax based on the number of miles driven! The GPS transponder will allow them to watch every car's movements and bill the driver accordingly.

One US insurance company is already distributing "free" GPS transponders to their customers in a widely-publicized voluntary campaign promising lower auto insurance rates if the company is allowed to monitor the drivers' every move, and the speed at which they make it.

These steps are every bit as scary as the recently-divulged NSA surveillance of American citizens and will represent a major step forward for the surveillance society that we all should dread.

Wonderful plan

[bwwatr]

I'm certain it'll only ever be police officers who access this feature, and only when they have reasonable cause.

Yet Another Justification

[sudon't]

Yet another justification for buying only (mostly) pre-1970 automobiles. Your new car is not only unattractive, but looks like every other car on the road, is useless for love-making, (if you ever wondered how people did it - bench seats, kids), and now, you don't even control it.

Risks of computing

[Anonymous Coward]

So what's the state machine look like for this tech? How does it FAIL? Safely, or securely?

If it fails secure, it means that the car stops. If it fails safely, it means that the car continues to run if a failure is detected.

Black Hats? Whoops! Expressway shutdown... City shutdown... No need to worry about an EMP...

Hack the DB (vis a vis Target), get the code for an intended target, shut their vehicle down when it's in an area you can ambush them in...

Will certain people be exempt from this? If so, then those are the vehicles to steal or misuse - in which case, the whole point of this civil rights invading bullshit amounts to nothing.

It's got to receive a signal eh? Whoops - the antenna broke off... Unless it's going to receive a continual 'authorization' signal, or it shuts down - but what's the risk of THAT? Is there some kind of 'caching' in the signal to account for travel through tunnels? What if the computer goes down that authorizes things? So that's a shit idea too...

faraday cage around the receiver... problem solved...

FUD and BS

[emakinen]

So there is an unofficial network of european police depts called ENLETS (European Network of Law Enforcement Technology Services). They have a wish that something like this could be put into cars. To post this into Slashdot as real news story means, that the editors have no understanding of how the EU works. It's a strong democracy with powerful member states. To pass this proposal is as probable as to ban hand guna in Texas. Someone might plan it, but it does not mean they'll succeed.

Feudalism

[NewYork]

In democracy it's your vote that counts; In "feudalism" it's your count that votes.

It doesn't have to be radio controlled

[GuB-42]

I seriously doubt the credibility of the article.
Anyways, remote stop doesn't mean that you can stop any car, anywhere. It can be the equivalent of a virtual barrier, for example, an induction loop may be placed at some key points like red lights to transmit the signal only to cars that pass over it.

Guess what!

[WeeBit]

It's not a secret anymore! Your mileage may vary.

Hatchbacks?

[bbsalem]

Oh, never mind!

Growth industry!

[CHIT2ME]

Rejoice hackers! How much will the average Joe, er, Johan in Europe pay to have the back door device hacked? I'm sure it would be easy to make it show that the car is not traveling northeast of London, but, southwest of Paris in a cow pasture. Also, rig the engine shutoff feature to enable an electronics bypass so the engine will still operate. Better yet, rig the shut off to enable the car's super charger and alert the driver that he/she is being followed.

So....ummm.....

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope they consider keeping braking and steering fully operational when the car is disabled. :) Have you ever had your car stall going down the road at a high rate of speed?

Didn't work for DRM.

[DrYak]

Why? This is essentially a signed kill message and message signing has generally been very secure, good luck getting anyone's root key.

Yeah, just like Sony Playstation's, or the Blu-ray's, or Debian's root key have never been compromised neither...
Oh, wait...

In a perfect world, were everything is perfectly implemented, such a "remote-kill-switch" could probably work only as intended, and the only reason to be afraid would be potential abuses (Government authorising warant-less remote shutdown because of newer laws against cyber pedo-terrorist pirates, Cops abusing the system for their own gain, etc.)

In practice, you know that the implementation is going to be imperfect and flawed. Probably 6 years after its release someone at a hackers' conference will demo an exploit that involves sending a malformed data packed on the same frequency as the tire-pressure detector talks to the car, because the car's subsystems weren't correctly isolated.

Beaten 6 months later by another team which discovers that the "oh-so-easy-to-hack" on-board entertainment system [complete with wifi/bluetooth/4G online access], actually *DOES* talk on the same vehicle-wide network as the car's subsystem even if nobody in his right mind would ever design such a system.

And it doesn't matter, because your local car-jackers had the root key anyway from day zero, because they bought it from some foreign thief, who bought it from the russian mafia, who got it "leaked" from the FSB, who got it because one of the engineer designing the whole system was actually one mole agent planted by them. (And then Snowden will reveal that the NSA unsuccessfully attempted the same. But as their mole got caught, the NSA resorted instead to getting one of the real legit engineer drunk).

Cue-in tabloid story of a cop who blocks the car of a love intesress' current boy friend and courting competitor....

Probably a bit of tin foil around the antenna would do the trick, maybe it won't work on getaway cars but police stop runners, DUIs, people driving the wrong direction and a lot of other loose cannons probably wouldn't have done that.

You probably will get a whole range of solution, between simple tinfoil to jam the antenna, to simply using older cars dating before this system, to complex hacks that look completely legit on the radio wave (like correctly answer to pings and will acknowledge a remote kill order), but do not actually enact the kill.

Probably privacy and security savvy everyday users will try the former, and probably get busted and heavily fined for it.
While criminal will try the later solution (car predating the system, or hack that quacks like the duck, walk like the duck, but aren't actually the duck) with great success.

Oh and all military aircraft have kill codes today I think, want to do a runner with a US jet to Russia? Methinks you'd never arrive, even if you could avoid being shot down. Missiles definitively have self-destruct codes, now if it was this totally insecure why would we build systems to totally cripple ourselves in case of war?

There is a small difference between the military (who have plenty of budget and won't mind spending it on the top of the line. Their things might be completely overpriced, but they can afford proper audit) and mass produced goods like car which have to be as dead cheap as possible (be ready for the kill-switch's firmware to be outsourced to the cheapest asian contractor).

And I'm ready to bet that, deep at the MSS and at the FSB, someone DOES know the root key to US missile remote deactivation.

No more coupes

[uno2tres]

Would it be so terrible if we had to by hatchbacks? :P

Back door in every car?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's called a hatchback in Britain