Slashdot Mirror
Majority of Young American Adults Think Astrology Is a Science
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Americans have always had a strange fascination with astrology. First Lady Nancy Reagan famously employed the services of an astrologer after the assassination attempt on her husband. Now UPI reports that according to a new survey by the National Science Foundation, nearly half of all Americans say astrology is either 'very' or 'sort of' scientific. Younger respondents, in particular, were the least likely to regard astrology as unscientific, with 58% of 18 to 24 years olds saying that astrology is scientific (PDF). What's most alarming is that American attitudes about science are moving in the wrong direction. Skepticism of astrology hit an all-time high in 2004, when 66 percent of Americans said astrology was total nonsense. But each year, fewer and fewer respondents have dismissed the connections between star alignment and personality as bunk. Among respondents in the 25 — 44 age group 49% of respondents in the 2012 survey said astrology is either 'very scientific' or 'sort of scientific,' up from 36% in 2010. So what's behind this data? The lead author of the report chapter in question, public opinion specialist John Besley of Michigan State University, cautions that we should probably wait for further data 'to see if it's a real change' before speculating. But, he admits, the apparent increase in astrology belief 'popped out to me when I saw it.'"
Majority of Young American Adults Think a Comma is Nike's "Swoosh" Symbol.
The decrease in astrology's visibility (people no longer read magazines, and "horoscope blogs" don't seem to have become a thing) may just have led to most young people not having a clue and assuming astrology = astronomy.
-- If no truths are spoken then no lies can hide --
Explains the government we have.
If I was skimming a survey that asked about scientific topics I'd probably read "astrology" as "astronomy" by accident. I'd possibly even chalk it up to a typo and deliberately substitute the two. I'm reading the paper right now to see if they accounted for this.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
Michael Behe thought astrology was science too, I guess that didn't help the case in Dover. The problem is just not young people think astrology is science, scientists think the same way.
It's a science of extracting money from gullible people.
Personally, I'd much prefer a job as a veterinarian to one as a vegetarian.
I can imagine the signs held by those who want a job as a vegetarian though:
"Will work for no food!"
Start about 4 minutes in.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
There's prior evidence that higher education and intelligence levels lead to rejection of astrology. See http://www.unz.com/gnxp/the-less-intelligent-more-likely-to-accept-astrology-as-scientific/. However, astrology is more commonly believed on the left than on the right end of the political spectrum as measured by self-identified conservatives or liberals. See the prior link where about only 65% of liberals declare astrology to be not at all scientific as opposed to about 75% of conservatives.. (In general a lot of different pseudoscientific beliefs end up being more or less common on one end of the political spectrum, although these can change over time, such as anti-vaccination attitudes becoming more common on the right after the HPV vaccine came out.) The correlation is not that strong, but there has been a left-ward trend in the US in the last few years. It is possible that memetic drag has thus increased the belief in astrology.
that astrology is intended as nothing more than entertainment --- the ``forecasts'' in a given newspaper each day are chosen from a set of a number of different forecasts, each of which is intended to fill up a different amount of space, e.g., if newspaper A has 1/2 a page to allot to them, they use the 1/2pg. filler version, if newspaper B only sold a 1-col ad for the astrology page, then they use the 5/6pg. filler version.
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
This would be a reason to worry less if it were a single data point. But this sort of explanation doesn't help explain the apparent increase over time unless you think people are getting less careful about reading questions or using context recognition.
or it might be a simple mixup between astrology and astronomy.
bickerdyke
Why they can't get a job?
We Virgos are sceptical about such things.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
For fuck's sake guys, there was so much more interesting information in that report and you went for the linkbait-iest piece of crap on the list. Have some fucking self respect. Check your sources. Be a goddamned editor. The rest of you: follow the link to the .pdf and read at least the
Highlights of the report. It's fascinating.
When students are called upon to learn creationism in science class, we teach them that science does not need to be based on fact just belief. Why should students not make the logical analogy "evolution is to creationism as behavior psychology is to astrology" and that all are science. With politicians insisting that non-testable theories be taught as fact in science classes why should our students not assume that astrology is also a science?
I hear people constantly get those two words mixed up. Obviously they sound similar, but have quite different meanings. I'd be surprised if that many people really believed astrology was a science.
So we win some, we lose some
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
Yup...
The two rules for success are:
1) Never tell them everything you know.
...when you allow people to believe in magic.
Ingredients: Turkey, Mechanically Separated Turkey, Water, Salt, Flavour.
Majority of young Americans would like Beta, if they ever came here in the first place.
Will South Carolina now "teach the controversy" with astrology the way they say they say they want to do with creationism?
No, of course not, as what they are really trying to do is promote their religion in public schools, and astrology is not part of their religion.
People are exposed to all kinds of "science" today: animal rights, anti-GMO, organic food, vegan diet, astrology, political science, economics...
What's science? Maybe all of the above, maybe none of the above.
The invisible tentacles of the Flying Spaghetti Monster reach everywhere.
Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.
The logical next step is astrology at the college level.
dammit `~My `keyboard is on` the fritz so` forgive random` quotes, apostrophes `and tildes. I tried to delete them but `the `backspace key also inserts them! Yay!
First ``they `say this:
"half of all Americans say astrology, the study of celestial bodies' purported influence on human behavior and worldly events, is either "very scientific" or "sort of scientific."
`An`d `then` t`hey` say `this:
"By contrast, 92 percent of the Chinese public think horoscopes are a bunch of baloney."
So `they used` two `different `words which mean two `different things but used them in `a `comparison as if they were the `same` thing.`Great reporting!
My guess is astrology sounds very close to astronomy in both spelling and pronunciation` so it is leading to confusion. I` read throug`h t`he` report ``but `the `problem is `no` exact sample `question `was given and we don't know how the people were asked. It simply `states that "Since 1979, surveys have `asked `Americans whether they view astrology as being scientific." `I `guess it `must read something `like this: "Do `you think `astrology is` a `science?" with` a few check `boxes under it with "not `at all" "sort of" or "very `scientific".
I `bet if they replaced astrology with horoscopes then we would `see `a completely dif`ferent `dataset`.
...they just meant "short off scientific"!!!
a) literacy - some people may just see "study of the sky", they know about NASA and don't differentiate Astrology from Astronomy
b) Numeracy - basic education, if astrology is accurate and those are "lucky numbers" then why is the astrologist working for $50 a reading and not sitting pretty somewhere with the powerball jackpot.
c) Sciency - (a) and (b) and just general education.
d) all of the above. Education. See yesterdays story about not teaching evolution.
America the world is laughing at your middle ages ideology.
A non-vegetarian veterinarian is a job where you can still eat when your customers don't pay you.
Just say, "Study finds more people are stupid than before".
~Any apparent grammatical or typographic errors are caused by defects in your display device.
" nearly half of all Americans say astrology is either 'very' or 'sort of' scientific. " ... they're confusing astronomy?
i'll check for replies later, i have go to read my horoscope
When you think of how stupid the average American is, you have to remember that half of them are even stupider than that.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Redifine "science." Redifine "education." Redifine "justice." War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength. Let's just finally set the Enlightnemnet aside becasue feudalism will probably work better going forward, anyway.
I comment occasionally so that I can mod others -1 overrated or -1 offtopic.
All this dosing with stupid-drugs from the sky is finally having the desired effect.
Get out you spray bottles of vinegar before it's too late!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Seriously, politicians love stupid voters because they are easily manipulated. They cut taxes that fund schools, then try to get religion taught as science. Idiot Americans sit around watching "reality" TV and think they're actually seeing objective reality. What do you expect?
Every day you hear about more things they are spotting in space, with bigger more powerful horoscopes they can see more exoplanets and stars etc. Considering how much our Curiosity alone has Discovered about the surface of Mars, it's not surprising Astrology is gaining a lot of credibility.
Of course astrology can never be considered a strict science that can be tested with the scientific method. But I don't see why it couldn't be considered a social science. Social sciences are often a lot of "best guess" postulations about human societies and behaviors. Astrology could certainly fit into this field for some.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Astrology used to keep astronomers fed. And, the observations that used to accompany astrology became the basis for astronomical advances. As a proto-science, astrology has appeared in Jungian archetypal motifs in psychology as well as sharing vocabulary with astronomy and planetary science. There are connections between astrology and these sciences just as there are between alchemy and both chemistry and nuclear physics or between herbalism and pharmacology.
I used to be an atheist until God talked. I'm not all as excited as I used to be about fighting superstition. You are like a ten year old who hasn't discovered girls yet. God can synchronize and does synchronize all the events of the world.
I do not believe god 'talked' to TempleOS, nor do I believe god 'synchronizes' the events of the world.
Neverthless, I'll risk a little karma and ask: Why was he modded down?
What about his post was troll / offtopic / flamebait etc?
There is no "I disagree" mod on Slashdot. Please don't substitute one of the above in its place.
The results are there but the interpretation is flawed.
I'd be FAR more likely to believe US kids are stupid and confused 'astrology' with 'astronomy', than that they believe astrology is a science.
We were being given a college tour for one of our kids at a LEADING institution (retail price north of $50k/year) and the pretty young tour guide was showing us around, and identified one of the science buildings as "...and there's the building with various science classrooms including geology, biology, and astrology...", which prompted a sudden look up* by most of the male parents in the group, eye contact, and a shrug. I didn't notice a single mom or kid react.
*she was wearing yoga pants
-Styopa
Are debunked/junk sciences like phrenology considered "science"? If so, maybe astrology can be called a science, but ONLY with a proper qualifier like "junk" or "debunked."
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
This would be a reason to worry less if it were a single data point. But this sort of explanation doesn't help explain the apparent increase over time unless you think people are getting less careful about reading questions or using context recognition.
Others on this thread have mentioned that people may simply not be as familiar with astrology as they were in the past. If the percentage of 18-24 year old adults who even know what astrology is is dropping steadily, then the number of people who mistake astrology for astronomy would probably be steadily going up at a similar rate. If a survey was already focusing on scientific concepts, I could see myself confusing the terms. Although in the context of "Is astrology a science" I would probably notice the difference since why would anyone ask if astronomy is a science?
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
Well, DUH!
We all know that for all the 6+ billion people in the world, there can only be 12 possible futures for their upcoming day.
For you though, looking at your astrological horoscope, I predict you will face challenges today.
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
That's a pretty good observation.
On one hand, you have a set of "rational" social values regarding going to college, being a moral, law abiding person, working hard, etc. all leading to good outcomes and yet none of it seems true anymore -- the plutocracy steals with impunity, working hard doesn't produce any rewards, college leads to lifelong indebtedness, etc.
On the other, you have an economy that never seems to get better for anyone but the rich, an environment that at best produces strange weather and otherwise is nothing but bad news, never ending military conflicts, etc.
It does sound like a common pretext to abandon science and reason and escape into religion.
Thanks, I didn't know that! No mod points today, though. Do you have a link to this I can show some friends?
Liberty - Security - Laziness - Pick any two.
It was easier back in the day when a given city had multiple newspapers, but you should be able to still find two different publications w/ two different size/versions of the horoscope page for a given day.
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
It's just garbage article like this that get my knickers in a twist. Stop wasting time and money on junk like this.
Agree that this was a crap Slashdot article. However, if you had followed the links to the report by the National Science Foundation, you would have found the answers to your questions re: source and scope, and as a bonus, you would have found a lot of extremely interesting information.
If you've been come to Slashdot looking for wisdom and insight in the posted articles, you already know it's a fruitless pursuit.
Mainstream science is so full of bullshit these days that the general public, faced with two piles of bullshit, one containing a priceless gem, and the other not, can't see the difference and, sadly, don't seem to care. It's a sad world when that happens. At least we can plant pretty flowers in the bullshit and hope that some good can be made of it. One day the gem will be uncovered.
John_Chalisque
Well, it is actually totally off-topic. The discussion is about a survey in which people expressed their beliefs about a particular type of practice. That doesn't mean that any conversation on any belief is automatically on-topic. I believe that whiskey is delicious although I didn't when I was younger, TempleOS believes that God is real, similarly... neither of those beliefs, however sincere, have any bearing on the actual topic other than acknowledging that beliefs can change over time, and both of us (indeed, this entire thread) should be modded "Off-Topic" as a result.
You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
Somehow I have the sense that young folks might always start out believing and then convert to a more considered opinion. Are there any previous studies?
What's your sign?
A theory must make useful predictions. And an affirmative answer to the above question tells me quite a bit about how my evening will progress. So astrology is a valid theory. QED.
Have gnu, will travel.
The Right tends to be more of a certain Christian belief that has a deep seated fear of 'new agey', 'spiritistic', 'occult' etc practices, whereas the left has the Christians who don't care about that kind of stuff, and the secularists who are every bit as irrational.
I've noticed this trend too, having grown up amongst fundies then moving to the big city as I got older. You find pseudoscience everywhere.
My experience on the religious Right: Yoga, Meditation and Astrology open your mind to Satan. Pray to God, son.
My experience on the Left: Lengthy discussions of star signs, after laughing at those damn fool fundamentalists.
"The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." George Bernard Shaw
Lizzie: "Mommy, can I go play outside?" Mommy: "Go axe your father."
What the theocrats in this country have failed to understand: When you raise a generation lacking critical thinking skills to further your own agenda, they will become susceptible to any and all ideologies. On the other hand, perhaps that's the idea. Its not so much about a belief in a god, its about raising an army that is easily led.
Have gnu, will travel.
So we may have a literacy/language problem rather than a scientific knowledge problem.
I'm not entirely sure which is worse.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
Majority of young Americans would like Beta, if they ever came here in the first place.
The majority of young Americans don't even know what VHS is these days, let alone Beta. ;-)
Well here is the main point. I don't care if you believe in Jesus or Astrology. You just can't claim it is a science either way. Actually, I guess you could do some testing of astrology and testing the predictions is a main point of the scientific process. Once you see that the predictions do not hold, then your astrology theory would have to be dropped. So, if you treat it scientifically, you would have to abandon it as false.
-- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
Create flash cards that have a horoscope but replace the sign with a number. Then create another set of flash cards that have the astrological sign on one side and the corresponding number on the other side. Have a decent sample size of people try to match up the signs.
This experiment has been run many times and the result is that it's completely random.
Without knowing the sign ahead of time every other horoscope works equally well for any other horoscope. You get out of it what you read into it.
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
Since when do young Americans think?
Ubi dubium ibi libertas: Where there is doubt, there is freedom.
I looked it up and the cards were not clear. However another source tells me no.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
That's only because they think Beta is the opposite of Wers.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Newton proposed a force- universal gravitation- which he could not expain what it was, but only how it worked. Furthmore he said said this force acted the same on things you could see in front of you as well as far off in the distant heavens. He feared he'd be mistaken as a supernaturalist for proposing such a mysterious force.
However scientists are a pragmatic lot. They dont care if you cant explain everything as long as you can predict phenomena better than you can before with a new theory. And Newon's theory could predict motion on Heaven and Earth much more accurately than anything before.
Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.
God of the gaps just means you got too bored to find out the real answer.
He tried to kill me with a forklift!
A lot of young people confuse the terms astrology and astronomy. Unless astrology was described prior to the poll, it requires a huge grain of salt.
Agreed, it's not a misread. If you RTA, the stats clearly line up with other demographic groups and other findings.
"The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." George Bernard Shaw
Indeed, I think it's probably a good sign that kids today probably don't know what Astrology is and figure that it's "the one with the telescopes".
Similarly how many people here know the difference between Cryonics and Cryogenics? One is the study of ultra-low temperature, and the other is the movement surrounding freezing your body after you die with the goal of resurrecting you later when technology advances far enough. But do you know which is which without looking it up?
G.
Due to the ubiquity of digital clocks, many dont know clockwise from counter-clockwise! Righty-Tighty, lefty-loosey - might be asking alot!
Time for a new Political party in the US (or two!) One is off the rails Other cant pony up a leader.
Or they give it "sort of" credit because it starts with planets and stars, even if they don't take the rest of it seriously.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
If they are teaching Creationism as a science then Astrology must be a science too.
Have a decent sample size of people try to match up the signs.
By "people" do you mean astrologers? Even if astrology worked I wouldn't expect a significant result if you just asked random joes.
The other old standby (one I got to run once) is to have an astrologer create horoscopes for a group of people, then ask the group to pick their own horoscope out. It's not perfect - if the astrologer has the birth years of the group, they could slip things like "you get crotchety with modern technology and enjoy Diagnosis Murder" into the old geezer's chart to give themselves a head start - but needless to say, the one I ran was a complete wash-out for the horoscope writer (who was only a hobbyist and didn't really have any expectations of success, but was interested to apply a scientific test to their work).
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
I was maybe 8 or 9 and had a great little 3" reflector, could even see the rings of Saturn. I was in a grocery store one day and saw a star book on the end cap. Got it, took it home, opened it up and WTF? I was astonished. What a load of crap.
Peace is easy to achieve, just surrender. Liberty is much harder get/keep.
Is the question too loosely worded?
I'm a staunch rationalist - as, I suspect, are an unrepresentatively high number of people reading this post - and believe that astrology, like homeopathy and the rest, is a load of old bobbins. But if you were to ask me "are they sort-of scientific?", without further qualification, could I honestly answer with a 100% "no"? Astrologers do sums and homeopaths use test tubes in the course of their work. The frameworks of both are based on faulty, if not downright bonkers, assumptions and perpetuated by the unwavering belief of their adherents, but that doesn't mean they can't be "scientific" in part.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Someone has been drinking the kool-aid.
It may be better for the 1%, but it sure is not for the working class sled dogs.
Just because someone stops receiving unemployment checks
doesn't mean they have a job.
The U-6 unemployment rate is north of 17%.
The percentage employed is around 62% by Dept of Labor's own numbers.
The misery index is at a 40 year high.
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
"Pseudo-" means "sort of," right?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
While on par with most religious beliefs, at least astrology has some basis in science. Planetary positions and angular relationships between those planets isn't something that astrologers make up. The data is largely calculated from ephemeris (usually the Swiss ephemeris) and there is a lot of math involved.
If religion had as much science as astrology, everyone would believe in god.
The only thing not science about astrology is the interpreted meanings of the positions and angular relationships.
"Lame" - Galaxar
Would you guys contest that "light is transmitted by fluctuations in the ether" is a scientific theory? It was believed by many scientists, and for a long time. The answer to the question posed in the survey depends not just on the definition of "astrology," but also on the definition of "scientific."
One of the things that I keep parroting to the creationist crowd is that a scientific theory must explain past events, and predict future events in a way that is testable. Nothing in here says that it has to be true. In fact, many theories that we now use are expressly not true at certain limits. Nope - explanation of past events, and prediction of future events in a testable manner. Those are the qualifications.
So let's apply this to astrology. Does it explain past events? Well, it certainly tries to. Does it predict future events? Check. Does it predict future events in a manner that is testable and falsifiable? I think that a controlled experiment would certainly do so. The controlled experiment would fail, and that would prove the theory of astrology false, but that doesn't make it "not a scientific theory."
Given that logic, I'd have to answer "sort of scientific" to this question. But if I were asked "do you believe that the position of stars and planets govern our day to day lives," that would get a resounding "no."
It may look like I'm doing nothing, but I'm actively waiting for my problems to go away.
--Scott Adams
Check off #10 on the 10 planks of the communist manifesto.
http://www.libertyzone.com/Com...
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
America has always had a lot more ignorance and stupidity than it should have. Have you forgotten about the Scopes "Monkey" Trial?
No, the wisdom and insight was in the comments such as yours.
Its here, its just shows up after the story is posted.
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
A non-vegetarian veterinarian is a job where you can still eat when your customers don't pay you.
A non-vegetarian veterinarian is a job where you can eat your customers when they don't pay you. (FTFY!)
Everything and its opposite is true. Get used to it.
Your insistence on treating one set of fairy tales as absolute, un-challengeable fact means every piece of nonsensical garbage gets the 'equal protection under ignorant eyes' doctrine.
Well the founding fathers took care of the people-voting-for-their-interests problem by denying anyone except white male land owners the right to vote. That's how they achieved their fantastic government which kept most of the people in unfathomable squalor and many in slavery or indentured servitude.
This space intentionally left blank
Seriously. If they're stupid enough to believe that Astrology is science, they're a danger to the human race.
If it becomes a knock-down, drag-out between Eugenics and Dysgenics, I'll go with the lesser of two evils and pick Eugenics.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
The quality of mind of such a large portion of the American population is so low that I can not see our nation surviving for very long. No known types of education or educational technology can elevate such low mentalities to reasonable functioning entities. The cry out used to be that little johny can't read. The new cry out should be that little Johny can not think. Worse yet little Johny refuses to consider thinking as part of his life.
The literal translation of the latin origin of 'Astrology' is 'stars logos' which roughly translates to "explanation of stars" or "account of stars". (The literal meaning of Astronomy is from "numeratus" or the counting stars and adopted with accurate measuring devices).
http://www.etymonline.com/inde...
It was the study of the movement of stars, it is the modern popular semantics of the term that is bunkum.
In the USA, a tomato is a vegetable by act of congress. Because of taxes and damn the scientific definition of 'Fruit'.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
who thing Stephen Hawking is a cosmetologist
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
How many are weapons-grade morons who believe in mystical future-telling, and how many simply mixed up astronomy with astrology and would have corrected themselves if the survey made the difference clear?
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
I am. The scientific knowledge problem is much worse. The "literacy/language" problem is trivial and unimportant.
Come on. People get screwed up easily, and astrology is not an every-day word nor an important word, unless you actually look up an astrological prediction frequently. Just listen to a parent describing the characters on a show their kids like but they can't sit through, and you'll find some amusing word or syllable substitutions in major character names. I'm highly confident that with a little time, we kind find some word I've used more than Astrology in the past year, which is not some specific jargon, and which appears in major dictionaries, yet you have never heard of in your life. It just doesn't come up that often.
I would expect people who are really into astrology to be the most sensitive to the distinction (barring maybe people who are actually astronomers), and people who don't care about being a Leo or a Virgo or whatever to be the most hazy on it.
Plus, real linguists know that astrology really was the term for what we now call astronomy. After all, the word itself even has the form of a science-name: latin for stars, logy for study. Study of the stars.
We have much worse literacy problems than mixing up astrology and astronomy. Like this: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com....
Ah, but what if it was the arrangement of the stars that caused that amount of space to be available!
+1, excellent troll.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I'm thinking you're descended from Pilgrims wearing extremely black clothes.
No, perhaps you're Puerto Rican.
Ah, you're Jewish Asian American.
There's research that shows the highest willingness to make this kind of sacrifice for gains far into the future are people who combine elements of status insecurity and class superiority.
I've listened to several highly informed commentators lately who agreed that what it would take to get American schools to the level of the Asian tigers is to put children through hell on earth of cramming 12 hours per day for years on end to pass some standard exam that admits only a privileged few.
Good thing we no longer dangle children down chimneys or mine shafts.
No one thinks the American educational system is perfect at the K12 level (the cream of the American university system is presently unrivalled), but people who dig deep largely report that the problems are economic and social where the gated communities are doing very well, thank you, at what they value most: drama, sports, and cheerleading. This is a different path to success.
I could dig up a dozen such authoritative voices from my notes, but instead I'll simply echo the most recent exchange I've reviewed which discusses this problem:
Ira Glass | Talks at Google
Without RTFA, was there any attempt to remind survey participants that astrology is the one with animal symbols, and astronomy is the one with black holes? If not, this isn't measuring acceptance of astrology, so much as measuring name recognition.
Evidently, the key to understanding recursion is to begin by understanding recursion. The rest is easy.
Drs who 'over service' are investigated. I had a GP a few years back who worked crazy hours in a small practice in an area that was short on Drs, she was investigated for over servicing and was told she couldn't take on any new patients.
Generally extra tests are performed by a path lab or imaging lab that isn't directly associated with the originating Drs practice - so they see no additional income from referring you beyond you going back to get the results.
I was diagnosed with cancer last year because of a Dr ordering what might have been considered an extra test (I needed a blood test because of some medication I was on, she decided to do a full work up because it seemed like a good idea at the time). If my GP had not done the extra test, it's likely I wouldn't have been diagnosed so early, would have gotten much sicker than I was and would have required chemo in addition to surgery.
Given the current standard HR policy of requiring a Drs certificate is you have a sick day, I would say most of my Drs visits these days are to get a note saying 'yes she really was sick' when I have a bad head cold or a migraine. I would be better off at home resting, but have to drag myself out to get a bit of paper and to be told to go home, rest, stay warm and keep up my fluids - all things I already know. Most Drs don't have time for unnecessary tests, they're too busy issuing repeat scripts and medical certs.
Sara
Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
This works both ways. I've had some experience with intelligent people trying their best to convert me to homeopathy and to astrology - in vain - and in both cases there's a family of practices and a hierarchy. The top of the hierarchy has absolute disdain for those at the bottom. Newspapers are at the bottom. Any serious astrologist will regard the stuff in newspapers as bollocks. At the same time the serious astrologist will easily dismiss people who associate newspaper astrology with real astrology because clearly these are people who don't know what they're talking about.
The 'serious' guys have their own strict procedures that gives it all a more scientific feel. It feels so much better if you start with actual calculations from the ephemerides. I've known a physicist who strongly believed in astrology.
The serious homeopathy of course works with absurd dilutions prepared following strict procedures.
The homeopaths attract many well educated medical practitioners who use complex anamnesis/diagnostics routines close to the procedures used in allopathy. There's a lot of mouth to mouth reputation building causing people to distinguish between the crackpots and the serious homeopaths. Again, and even more than with astrology, this is not just a playground for the intellectually challenged..
There's one thing to take away from all this, and that's that once you allow yourself to be submersed in pseudosciences, it'll turn out to be a lot more convincing than you expected. I wouldn't trust too many people to be up to it. A lot less than the 42% in the article (100% - 58% of the 18-24 year old in this case). More like less than 10%.
I've done it a few times. I'm really tough :)
I am not a believer in astrology, but is it so far fetched to consider that there might be "celestial" seasons that influence human behaviors in ways similar to the way terrestrial seasons (Spring, Winter, etc) influence plant growth, reproductive cycles of animals, and the like? Is it really so far fetched that a baby that is born in the depths of Winter and spends its first six months with shorter light cycles and colder temperatures might develop a different temperament than a baby born at the peak of Summer?
A lot of what gets classified as astrology (horoscopes, etc.) are often times so vaguely written that they are nearly universally applicable. On the other hand, to make blanket statements along the lines of, "There is no way that the motions of the universe, the earth's position relative to the sun, etc." have no influence on human behavior is probably being short sighted.
I often times think that people who get so focused on "scientific proof" are almost as crazy as religious fanatics who refuse to accept science and remain wedded to irrational beliefs in the face of otherwise irrefutable proof. There are some things that science cannot yet measure or account for.
One day we might look back and realize that astrology is just as real as the Higgs Boson, Or not. Who knows?
So because a communist likes an idea, it must automatically be bad and we should oppose it on principle, because communists are bad and evil in every way?
People often confuse systematicity with science. Which means they don't really get the point of science, of course. But this also explains things like Kabala, Homeopoathy, betting systems, orthodox religion, some diets, as well as the astrology thing.
I recently had the opportunity to compare modern American comics with Franco-Belgian comics( "Bandes Dessinées"), and one thing that struck me almost from the beginning was the way that the majority of American comics seemed to involve fantasy characters and worlds that had very little whatsoever to do with reality, especially with respect to the physical universe.
I realise this doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it did certainly make me wonder.
Do the majority of young Americans think "alot" is a word?
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
"The Founding Fathers" primarily refers to the groups of people that A: Signed the Declaration Of Independence or B: Took part in the creation of the Constitution or C: Had a prominent role in getting the Constitution ratified by the states or D: Were American Revolutionary War Leaders/Heroes. The right to vote was determined on a state-by-state (or smaller) basis and voting eligibility standards largely predated the Declaration. Remember, the United Stated was originally a federation of independent political entities.
In short, you are wrong and your claim is malicious and either ignorant or dishonest.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
The majority of young American adults think climate science is a science.
Majority of Young American Adults Think Astrology Is a Science
Majority of Americans Think Angels are real
Majority of Americans Think Evolution is a ploy by the Devil
Majority of Americans Think the NSA is a benevolent organization
Majority of Americans Don't Actually "Think"...
Astrology IS science, and as such it is falsifiable. And every test has shown that it does not predict yesterday's news. So applying it in decision making is bad decision making.
"There is no god but allah" - well, they got it half right.
A Majority of etc. believe in global warming, or at least did in the recent past. It's possible that as the GW fad passes the bulk of residual irrationality is oozing back to its more traditional locales like astrology.
...bought the 'Hope and Change' hype, and still have the bumper sticker. At least young American is consistent.
The rules, the complexity, of any economic system is a way for businesses to export their risk onto their customers. It is the primary means by which people you pay for a service parasitize their hosts. Cell Phone service plans are a prime example. Not only does this lock in the prices set by the vendors but it also gets consumers to pay for their risk of doing business.
Americans are really dumb about economics and politics. You will see these obvious arguments blaming government regulation for these problems, when these same people are loath to admit that business operators went to the government to write regulations to minimize risk, to pass the cost of it onto the consumer, and to create closed markets for businesses like ISPs, phone companies, and insurance companies. Even with all the heat and little light on The Affordable Care Act, most people argue as if it is anything but what it really is, a taxpayer subsidy for the insurance companies and indirectly the whole health care system. One hears these simplistic arguments about government vs. private enterprise as if the two are at war. Nothing can be further from the truth. Both major political parties are in bed with business; the political rhetoric parroted by most American partisans rings hallow. They just don't know what they are talking about, and that included science. American is an anti-intellectual and antisocial country. Most people came here to avoid some obligation they felt in their place of origin, to them freedom means selfishness and that ignorance is bliss, and it shows in the prevelance of pseudoscience.
I am predicting that ACA is a failure and that the nightmare for conservatives of a single-payer nationalized health care system will result, the reason is that our system is too expensive and that in order to meet the needs of people here, the government will have to do something like expand Medicare and force doctors and clinics into some socialized plan. ACA is probably not going to meet the economics goal of minimizing risk for insurers. That will result in more and more pressure on them until the system of private insurance is basically dead. The government will have to step in as doctors and clinics go out of business and more and more people are unable to find health care.
Just admit it, that if you work for a social media company, or do advertising and marketing, or even if you are in financial services, YOU are the source of the problem WRT ignorance about what is true or not, weather astrology or Creationism, or for that matter market economics is true. You can't be spreading the white lies that are normal for business and marketing, along with some black lies too, and expect people to have enough critical thinking skills and skepticism to see the truth in general terms, when your goal in life is distraction and propaganda. There is no material difference between public relations, propaganda and advertising, and what may be OK in an impression-driven trip to the supermarket has far more dire results in citizenship and debating public policy.
Especially if your game is social media, you have a particular fault because all the flaws in human behavior become heightened in the frenzy created by ephemeral off-the-cuff buzz-driven knee-jerk response demanded by that medium. It is a sorry substitute for thinking, sound judgement and deliberation, all of which tske silence and time. So, in pursuit of a fast buck, not only is the generation that grew up with the influience of your wares perhaps less well-equipped to think rationally and to be informed, but through your marketing you are contributing to their disadvantage.
I had to think for a few seconds there - you're talking about screw threads, aren't you?
You've not had to deal with many "left-hand" threads, have you? A couple of encounters (and they're not that uncommon) and you'll be getting into the habit of checking every bolt to determine it's sense of turn. If you do encounter one in the wild, then you're likely to encounter more.
I had a trainee trying to unscrew the pillar valve from a (full) cylinder of (extremely flammable) hydrogen once, before I realised just how dangerous "knowing the rule and applying it" could be. I'm more careful since then, but you've got to break that habit of rote learning as soon as possible.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
"alot" is a word. Not the one he thinks though, it's a verb with similar meaning to allocate.
No, it isn't. The word you are thinking of is, "allot".
As a scientist with a pet interest in astrology (REAL astrology, involving precise dates and times for astronomical 'events', not two-sentence daily horoscopes), I find myself deeply disappointed by the preponderance of astrology skeptics here who seem to take it for granted that astrology is a baseless vocation devoid of any scientific merit. As probably one of the earliest human scientific activities (by 'scientific' here I mean repeated observations involving a limited set of changing variables and careful recording or tracking of outcomes), astrology seems to me to deserve serious attention. As an activity conducted before 'we knew what we know now', yet after we'd already developed our enormous pattern-recognizing cortex, astrology really seems to deserve a second look now by the scientific community, with all of our advanced analytical methods, and our means for controlling against variation among the population sample. I find myself shocked at how often people who claim to be "defending science" do not use evidence to back up their claims. I do claim to be a repository for such evidence. I can only vouch for the uncanny correspondence between my life events (since I began following my astrological self 15 years ago) and those predicted by the precise arrangement of astronomical bodies. If anyone happens to know of any scientifically valid research looking into the utility or accuracy of truly astrological claims, whether those results support or debunk the basis of astrology, please share!
I think these Young American Adults are Disillusioned/Desperate/Underemployed/Unemployed due to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...
Casteism
An open mind is one thing. Having it so wide open that your brain falls out is quite another.
Huh? If something is having an effect on something then how can it not be a cause?
As to your suggestion that these youngsters know an obscure and obsolete meaning of the word "science" and responded accordingly, I think that's pretty unlikely.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Technically nothing really stops them - but the government will not pay an unlimited amount. There are schedules that dictate what a certain service should cost, and when such a service is deemed to be necessary. So a doctor that's ordering expensive, pointless tests will find that the government refuses to pay them. And if the patient themselves is also not liable (e.g. they didn't specifically ask for the tests etc.), then they just have to eat the cost. Which is a good way to discourage doctors doing useless tests.
if astrology is the theory that the positions of the starts at your birth affect your life, then shouldn't geology be the theory that the positions of the rocks at your birth affect your life, and biology the theory that the positions of the living things at your birth affect your life?
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
"First Lady Nancy Reagan famously employed the services of an astrologer after the assassination attempt on her husband."
and yet, the astrologer never told her that there were WMD in Iraq so we need to invade there, but not to worry it will be a smashing success, seed democracy in the Middle East, and leave us beloved of every Arab and/or Muslim on earth.
She should have given the astrologer's phone number to Li'l Bush..
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.