Slashdot Mirror
Fermilab Begins Testing Holographic Universe Theory
Back in 2009, researchers theorized that space could be a hologram. Four years ago, Fermilab proposed testing the theory, and the experiment is finally going online. Jason Koebler writes Operating with cutting-edge technology out of a trailer in rural Illinois, government researchers started today on a set of experiments that they say will help them determine whether or not you and me and everything that exists are living in a two-dimensional holographic universe. In a paper explaining the theory, Craig Hogan, director of the Department of Energy's Fermilab Center for Particle Astrophysics writes that "some properties of space and time that seem fundamental, including localization [where things are], may actually emerge only as a macroscopic approximation from the flow of information in a quantum system." In other words, the location of places in space may constantly fluctuate ever so slightly, which would suggest we're living in a hologram.
The instant we realize it's all an experiment or simulation, the flip will be switched off.
Why? I guess at that point observing us will get actually interesting. Assuming there is an observer. Even if this is all a simulation there might, or might not be an observer. Also, if you assume a simulation, is everyone else also simulated as having a "free will". Does "I think, therefore I am" actually mean anything? If this is all a simulation, how do I know if the people around me are simulated as their own entities or as part of the background? Does it even matter? Am I part of the background for observing someone else? Is life and planet earth just an anomaly in some holographic "heu lets invent some basic rules and see what happens" experiment? What if they are actually observing blackholes, and life just keeps popping out in every damn simulation, like some bacteria on a dirty petri dish?
So if we're all photonic organisms who think we are biological carbon based then I'm going to get ready for the invasion by Chaotica's forces.
Here's to you Captain Proton. *Raises a beer*
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
What if we're a simulation being run on a really advanced iPhone?
Siri, end program.
Ok, so let's say experiment confirms that we live in holographic universe. And then what?
I suppose nationalism will be the last religion to die.
This might be part of an answer to your question: "Ohio lawmakers want to limit the teaching of the scientific process".
In other words, you live in a country where being an ''egghead'' (your term - not mine) is not respected. As a matter of fact, you live in a country where a large percentage of the population still thinks some invisble man in the sky has created the entire Uinverse in 6 days, and the Earth itself might well be 6000+ years old (instead of 4+ billion years old).
Need I say more? Case closed.
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
"Computer, End program."
Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
Siri, end program.
"Sorry, I didn't get that."
"Did you say, "Delete program"?"
"No Siri! Do NOT DELETE PROGRAM!!"
"Thank you. You will be deleted from the hologram."
"NO-O-ooo...."
Why even be butthurt in the first place?
CERN is not 'European' per se - it is a cooperation between 21 nations all over the world, INCLUDING the USA.
What CERN does is so hideous expensive that no single nation should have to lift this cost on its own.
- http://home.web.cern.ch/about/member-states
The pogroms were a series of attacks against the Jewish population in Western Europe during the Middle Ages. Can I help you with anything else?
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
Yeah? Well you guys may have the LHC, but our cutting edge tech is run out of a trailer!
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a difficult battle. - Plato
Document its API, what else?
Scientists in a trailer in rural Illinois have just discovered that the world is indeed flat. Thus bringing an end to the several hundred year old scientific debate.
Select from tblFriends where interesting >= 4;
There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another theory, which states that this has already happened.
So are they postulating that even non-matter has motion?
This is what happens when physicists come up with ideas when they're high, and remember to write them down before coming down.
.
Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
The area around Fermilab hasn't been rural for at least 20 years, suburbia crept up and surrounded it. It was a rural area, when first built.
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
On the contrary, it's a well thought out experiment using some clever and not terribly expensive techniques. The "holographic universe" thing is a flashy attention grabbing headline, but if you bothered to go read up on the details, you'd see that it's simply a good way to look at the consistency of spacetime on scales people haven't yet explored. I, for one, would love to know if spacetime is lumpier than expected, regardless of what you care to call it.
Also, last week's "hints beyond the standard model" article was slashdot clickbait, not actual science news.
So, worthy reader, "how about doing some actual article reading, like the guys on Slashdot do?" Oh, wait, I see....
IF I'm Virtual, what language am I? What os? Pray tell that I'm not a visual basic program running on windows. But then that would explain allot!
Wars cost money. So when you have a bunch of Islamic assholes wanting to destroy western civilization and replace it with a caliphate, who you gonna call?! Rather than bust ghosts, we send teams of them. Meanwhile, Europe (hanging on by a thread due to Islamic immigration) enjoys all the cost savings by dumping funds into healthcare and science.
Someone has to do the dirty work around here, and that's America. And we get shit on by Europe for doing it.
Protect your own, I'm fucking done support the military. We have ICBMs, just glass the fucking place. I'm all about that whole passive/aggressive thing these days.
Life is not for the lazy.
Wow the Europeans confirming the existence of the Higgs Boson and then ramping up the LHC power output has really stung the American Physics community into action. First they put on a dog and pony show about "Hints of Physics beyond the Standard Model" last week, and now this crap? Why is it that we feel we must hold up fanciful speculation as some sort of achievement? In Europe they get results, here we just publish fantasy and partial fact dressed up as wondrous discovery and pat ourselves on the back and hey we might even get on CNN if its "Star Trek" enough.
How about doing real some science guys, like the egg-heads in Europe do?
Uh... Holography is the cutting edge of particle physics right now. There is very strong evidence supporting this idea, and it may very well be true. This isn't crap at all. I suspect people like you said the same thing about a variable time rate back in the day.
Operating with cutting-edge technology out of a trailer in rural Illinois....Me and Dr. Bubba J will test ... whether the Universe is a flat course and always turning to the left.
Out of a TRAILER????
I think they should have just left it as "Operating with cutting-edge technology...." and left out the "trailer" part.
1) even assuming we are holograms, how do they know the imperfections are not simulated
2) even if the experiment comes with results that confirm it, an irregularity does not mean we are holograms, it could simply mean some theories about the universe are adjusted
3) Even supposing for a moment that we live in a simulated universe, what the heck are you going to do about it? ask for a refund? ask for a change in the simulation?
Never antropomorphize computers, they do not like that
CERN isn't filled with scientists, it's filled with retards that can't think of a better way to probe the universe than to smash stuff and see how it breaks apart. It's the physics equivalent of a "doctor" trying to model the inside of the nose throat and lungs by looking at the pattern produced when someone sneezes. It's tard-science, plain and simple.
Alright, I'll bite: How would you do it, then?
You're my only hope.
In special relativity, we find out that our velocity through spacetime is actually constant. If you move though space faster, you necessarily move through time more slowly.
So I'm wondering if information about particles is somehow limited to a specific amount of information. If you have more bits of precision about one thing, then the certainty about some other property is necessarily weaker because it doesn't get as many of the total number of bits something can have. Can we work out the number of bits? We need bits for position, bits for momentum, bits for other quantum mechanical properties, etc.
I'm wondering if perhaps superposition is a result of the number of bits for a given property (like spin) going to zero because they were required to increase the precision of something else. For that matter, I wonder if particles can share/trade bits, so that sometimes particles have no bits (like when they get absorbed). And maybe a body made up of particles has bits shared kinda like how a metal's conduction band is shared among all the atoms. Maybe that is the way force carriers act... trading bits. MAYBE the whole universe simply has a total number of bits, which are divided up as necessarily among the particles. And really particle interactions are just bits (and their values) being traded around within a vast amorphous ocean of bits. In that case, particles are an illusion; they're an emergent property (from our perspective) of the varying association among bits.
LOL .... lumpy? Why am I suddenly hearing "timey wimey" and a Cup O Soup metaphor from the Doctor?
But, thanks for putting more context to this ... because my initial response was "really? We're taking that seriously now?"
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Upon reading the research summary, I don't see anywhere where it implies that we are in a simulation. I think they are just proposing that the fundamental construction of reality is 2D but is ultimately 'projected' as 3D due to quantum effect. At least that is the way I interpret this, I could be wrong though.
You know I don't think I've ever heard anyone being called a "geek" or a "nerd" outside of the US.
The pogroms were a series of attacks against the Jewish population in Western Europe during the Middle Ages. Can I help you with anything else?
They didn't end in the Middle Ages, although. The last pogroms in Russia happened during the war that followed the October Revolution. Lenin even decommissioned a entire regiment whose officials toke part in a pogrom.
Linux is for people who don't mind RTFM.
Europe has a lot of spies and assets doing dirty work too. They also let USA troops setup bases in far eastern europe, and let usa 'hide' nukes and keep it secret, oh shhh.. yeah no they have no nukes in EU.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Ok, I don't have the time to RTFA right now but isn't this completely obvious? Nuclei, atoms, molecules all vibrate (if not more) all the time. From the macroscopic point of view these all are so tiny as to be an insignificant error in any measurement of location but none the less, the "error" does exist.
In the mean time, they managed to cook the purest batch of meth yet known to men.
Yeah? Well you guys may have the LHC, but our cutting edge tech is run out of a trailer!
And it may turn out to be a simulated trailer.
Dark Reflection
Since the idea is that this universe is a simulation, who says it is a simulation of reality? Maybe we are some kids crazy fantasy world in which the container has to be larger then its contents! FREAKY!
The trick to thinking outside the box, is to stop thinking the box is real.
IF this is a simulated world, there is no reason to assume the rules in the simulation are the same as the ones of the world in which the simulation is running.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
I do believe this research may actually yield some surprises, but it doesn't necessarily mean that "location fluctuations" would mean we are living in a 2D holographic projection. I believe it is the opposite of that; we are living in a 12 dimensional universe that we experience as 4 Dimensional (time is the 4th property). The Higgs Boson and Dark matter are artifacts of space/time itself existing in a 4 Dimensional space we don't directly interact with.
Location can be manipulated and is influenced by a higher dimension -- so there will be measurable uncertainty, but it can prove the INVERSE of this hypothesis; we are the result of a higher dimension experienced as 4.
>>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
Really? I'll need to change my dating site profile then.
And it's a waste.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
All frozen...
CERN isn't filled with scientists, it's filled with retards that can't think of a better way to probe the universe than to smash stuff and see how it breaks apart. It's the physics equivalent of a "doctor" trying to model the inside of the nose throat and lungs by looking at the pattern produced when someone sneezes. It's tard-science, plain and simple.
Alright, I'll bite: How would you do it, then?
That's obvious: Just ask God.
Help fight poverty: Punch a poor person.
I suppose nationalism will be the last religion to die.
Nationalism is practiced as much in Europe, if not more. In the U.S. we think Europe and other languages and such is cool, even if on the outside we're all "BALD EAGLES AND SHIT!!!" (https://www.facebook.com/theoatmeal/photos/a.10150413121115078.628758.220779885077/10154378963025078/?type=1&theater). In Europe, each country thinks their's is the shit that stinks the least. True, we've possibly worn out the "You're welcome regarding that thing we did to keep you all from speaking German...Twice" badge, but seriously, if you are European then you're welcome.
Help fight poverty: Punch a poor person.
There's a lot of confusion about what this means, but to be clear: this has nothing to do with ghostly 3D things floating in a surrounding room.
What it's saying is that the 3D nature of the universe might be only approximate. Let's say you (somehow) come up with a two-dimensional universe and physical laws, in which you can mostly accurately (but not completely) calculate the ongoing evolution of a 3D universe. The "mostly accurately" part translates into a slight blurriness, a fuzziness of the 3D world, but it occurs at such small scales that nobody will notice.
Such models have been created theoretically - not long ago some bright spark concocted a ten-dimensional universe that had relativity and spatial deformations and whatnot, but which was mathematically equivalent to a one-dimensional universe that did not.
This experiment is looking for the blurriness.
Now, the story of how this got started is fascinating. Some other bright spark was investigating entropy (chaos), and in particular was interested in the maximum amount of chaos that could be contained in a three-dimensional volume. In a sense, this is like asking the maximum information density of a volume.
Somewhat bizarrely, the equation for the maximum entropy is proportional to the surface area of the volume. This is really weird, and important. The maximum amount of information you can cram into a space is limited by the space's surface area, not its volume.
The implication of this is that you could characterize the entire state of a 3D volume with a membrane. This has been proposed as one solution to the black hole information paradox - black holes are a place of no return, and so they seem to violate the law that information (like energy) can't be created or destroyed. The solution is this: as particles enter the black hole, you get tiny peturbations (bulges, dimples, ripples) in the black hole's event horizon. The idea is that the entire state of that particle retained in these peturbations as they play across the event horizon. The information isn't lost, it's just encoded in this 2D form.
This leads to the startling idea that the peturbations as they evolve are actually modelling the ongoing state of the interior of the black hole. Modelling.. calculating.. simulating. The peturbations on the event horizon are a 2D calculation of the state of a 3D volume.
This is the holographic theory - what if our entire universe, despite its apparent 3D nature, were in fact equivalent to a 2D simulation.
Yeah, they did that whole LHC thing without us.
In fact, probably in spite of us...
As long as it's 'them' and 'us', right?
If I were going to write a universe simulator, It would probably start at the big bang - then as the universe spread out, it would only do real calculations on certain "frames" of the universe that mattered. The real way to test that would be to send an object outside the frame... The simulation would GPF I suppose.
Back in 2009, researchers theorized that space could be a hologram.
The idea is older than that. From the very link, they "bolster[ed] the proposition" - they didn't come up with the idea.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
On May 25, 1988 the universe was revealed as a construct in the mind of Tommy Westphall.
Anyone willing to consider that 3D space is an illusion really needs to look into reading the new book Time Reborn by Lee Smolin.
Well, the irony is that outside of the US, discrimination based on color of skin is quite rare. Discrimination based on "tribe" and gender seems to be everywhere, though.
If these experiments confirm that we are in fact all actors of a holodeck, can they publish the results to the general public ?
Hey didja ever think what if we were actually living in a holodeck and didn't know it?
Woww! You're totally blowin' my mind, man.
Einstein was German, Jobs and Gates were aliens and Woz is, well, different.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Just remember, War is not about who's right. It's about who is left. (Heinlein)
Now, are you on our side. Or the other guy's?
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
To see the possible alternative outcomes. Just because they're advanced posthumans who survived doesn't mean they took the best path to get there.
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
we did to keep you all from speaking German...Twice
Given that Germany ist best of Claß now und Hochdeutsch ist eine kick-aß Sprache, I'm almost starting to be tempted to doubt you did us a Favor :-)
Flourescent (adj): smelling like ground wheat.
Operating with cutting-edge technology out of a trailer in rural Illinois...
They'll more likely come to the conclusion that the universe is 16 years old and pregnant.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
I've been on Slashdot for many years now and I'm just starting to finally get tired of the general level of complete idiocy of most posters here. Am I getting old or is the internet population at large just getting dumber? Not sure.
Speaking as a fellow old fart, I think we are getting smarter - or at least more knowledgeable. Having to pass on this knowledge to ignorant young punks with more energy than us is what makes us grumpy old men.
You will not drink with us, but you would taste our steel? - Walter Matthau, The Pirates
Yeah, Jobs and Gates and Woz, or even the giant egghead, Einstein; never got a shred of respect in our society, did they?
Jobs was a businessman with relatively little technical ability. Gates had a little more technical ability that Jobs, but he was still primarily a businessman. Neither of them were scientists, and neither of them are respected for anything other than being rich.
Woz was a good engineer, but I don't know of any scientific research that he did. He's also more or less unknown to most Americans.
Einstein is the only scientist on your list, and his work is now nearly 100 years ago (some of his early work is over 100 years ago). He wasn't born in the United States, either; he only came to the United States because he had to flee the Nazis.
Actually "egghead" was a creation of Mussolini. But it's true that the UStatians adopted it.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
FWIW. Simulacron-3 (1964) (also published as Counterfeit World), by Daniel F. Galouye, is an American science fiction novel featuring an early literary description of virtual reality.
An effective "democracy" creates the illusion the people have a say in their government.
So do you.
'Simulation' is simply a recent metaphor that sounds cool and high-tech.
In earlier times, people would have been talking about whether the universe was really a telephone switchboard or a clock.
The universe, and everything in it, including ourselves, doesn't become less (or more) real because we find some math connecting a N-dimensional representation of the universe and an N'-dimensional representation.
It was mentioned in the game Mass Effect 3. I figured it was just technobabble ... guess not.
Well, the irony is that outside of the US, discrimination based on color of skin is quite rare. Discrimination based on "tribe" and gender seems to be everywhere, though.
You've read too many liberal fantasy books and I'd guess you have never been outside the US and probably never left your own state or even the city you were born in.
Why is it in India the darkest skinned people are of the lowest castes? Read about the mainly dark skinned Dalit caste and how they are treated.
If you go to Korea there is strong covert and at times overt feeling of animosity against anyone that doesn't share their complexion. They sneer at both whites and the darker skin Asians to south not to mention persons of African descent.
It is only so apparent in the US because the US has a heterogeneous population. Any other country that has that much diversity would have just as much or worse problems that exist there.