Microsoft Announces Windows 10

Unified Experience Across Devices by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 06:03 · Score: 5, Insightful

Isn't that what Windows 8 was supposed to do? I am confused.

Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by BarbaraHudson · 2014-09-30 06:08 · Score: 5, Interesting

You're not the only one, obviously, and that's intentional. By calling it Windows 10, they're trying to put as much distance as possible between it and Windows 8. And make 7 look even more "old".

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Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by Aighearach · 2014-09-30 06:10 · Score: 1

Isn't that what Windows 8 was supposed to do? I am confused.
Where is the confusion? It was supposed to. And now a new version is supposed to. Add those together. Normalize the units. The easy answer, it failed!
Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by jd2112 · 2014-09-30 06:30 · Score: 5, Insightful

You're not the only one, obviously, and that's intentional. By calling it Windows 10, they're trying to put as much distance as possible between it and Windows 8. And make 7 look even more "old".
And the OS version will probably report something linke 'Version 6.5.xxxx'

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Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by bondsbw · 2014-09-30 06:38 · Score: 5, Interesting

And the OS version will probably report something linke 'Version 6.5.xxxx'
This seems odd, but they do it on purpose for driver compatibility.

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Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by aralin · 2014-09-30 06:42 · Score: 2

Yeah, but... only odd numbered versions don't suck...

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Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by Ravaldy · 2014-09-30 06:51 · Score: 3

Stepping stones. Windows 8 was a wobbly stepping stone but it was a stepping stone. Dev on MS is much easier to cross over platforms than it was in the past.
Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by VGPowerlord · 2014-09-30 06:51 · Score: 5, Informative

Not just driver compatibility.
Windows 7 fixed a bunch of Vista compatibility issues with programs built for XP simply by having the version be set to 6.1.
Turns out that companies doing braindead Windows version detection of

if (majorVersion >= 5 && minorVersion >= 1)

had it fail spectacularly for version 6.0.

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Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 07:14 · Score: 1

I was watching out for this comment ... just hope windex is the exception to this rule.
Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by jd2112 · 2014-09-30 07:32 · Score: 5, Interesting

Not just driver compatibility.
Windows 7 fixed a bunch of Vista compatibility issues with programs built for XP simply by having the version be set to 6.1.
Turns out that companies doing braindead Windows version detection of

if (majorVersion >= 5 && minorVersion >= 1)
had it fail spectacularly for version 6.0.
Particularly bad since Windows does have built-in functions to compare version numbers (eg. major.minor.patch.build format)

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Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by jsepeta · 2014-09-30 07:43 · Score: 2, Insightful

a unified experience means putting start menus on phones, like Windows Mobile 6.0 -- which I enjoyed, btw, although it was dog slow. good keyboard and stylus though.

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Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by emblemparade · 2014-09-30 08:00 · Score: 1

Windows 8 unified tablets and desktops. You can buy a 7" Atom-based tablet right now that you can connect to a dock and get a full desktop experience.
But Windows phones are still different. With Windows 10, you will be able to the above with your phone.
That might not seem like a big deal to you, but it can radically change the computing market. For many people, owning a single computing device (a phone) will be enough. They will just get a dock for a tablet (BlackBerry has this) or for a laptop or for the living room and that's it. Enterprises, too, can invest in fewer gadgets per employee.
Today's phones are powerful enough to run most everyday computing tasks. Obviously not all, but for those people who need the power, workstations and gaming PCs will still be around.
Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by tompaulco · 2014-09-30 09:07 · Score: 4, Insightful

Unified Experience Across Devices
Which basically means that the UI for all platforms are dumbed down to the least capable device.
So which competitor to Windows is offering basically the opposite, ie, an Experience tailored to the device? That's the one I will be buying.

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Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by Kjella · 2014-09-30 09:10 · Score: 2

Well, how many times have you seen "let's make our own date/time/number/argument/xml parser"?

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Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by timeOday · 2014-09-30 09:29 · Score: 1

Which basically means that the UI for all platforms are dumbed down to the least capable device.
Wrong. What they are claiming is exactly what you asked for:

a tailored experience for all hardware across a single platform family.... Windows 10 will deliver the right experience on the right device at the right time.

I think this is a good vision - you shouldn't need a different technology to target each platform (now that smartphones are fairly powerful); you want consistency in the UI between devices where possible, but that doesn't mean they can or should appear just the same, either. It is a tall order, and one has to question whether it is actually worth it, since switching between Windows and Android (or iOS and OSX) doesn't seem to have caused users' heads to explode, nor have developers been slow to discard PC code and re-implement everything for mobile.
Re: Unified Experience Across Devices by guruevi · 2014-09-30 09:35 · Score: 1

Windows 9x-ME was really Windows 4 all along. 2000 was version 5, XP-10 is version 6.
Most windows versions suck, regardless of version numbering. They suck less when it comes around to having a third service pack but they're still miles behind a real OS. (I haven't used windows computers at home since windows 3.11)

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Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by NJRoadfan · 2014-09-30 09:56 · Score: 1

I suspect this is why so many applications failed to run under Windows 2000 despite otherwise being compatible (not using new Win32 calls introduced in XP). That or they were compiled with a newer version of Visual Studio.
Re: Unified Experience Across Devices by PsychoSlashDot · 2014-09-30 10:30 · Score: 4, Informative

Windows 9x-ME was really Windows 4 all along. 2000 was version 5, XP-10 is version 6.
I don't want to be pedantic, but since we're all being pedantic, I guess I'll do it anyway. You're looking at the wrong codebase. The predecessor of Win2k (v5) was WinNT 4 (v4). The predecessor of that was WinNT 3.5 (v3.5). The predecessor of that Was WinNT 3.1 (v3.1).

WinME was based on the consumer codebase that (in inverted order) was Win3.x, Win95, Win98, WinME. The entire Win9X/ME series reported internal version 4.x but that had nothing to do with the codebase we run today. Again, Win95 was literally v4.0 and Win98 was v4.1 but the current kernel had its very own v4 (and v3) and WinME wasn't it.

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Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by tompaulco · 2014-09-30 10:38 · Score: 5, Insightful

I don't care for consistency in UI between my smart phone and my desktop. On my smartphone, I am stuck with a tiny screen, with not input method other than my fingers and a couple of buttons. On my desktop, I have a mouse and keyboard, which are dozens of times more efficient. I only use my smart phone for apps if I don't have a more efficient method readily available at the moment. I have no desire to be stuck with that input method on my desktop.

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If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by jd2112 · 2014-09-30 11:39 · Score: 5, Funny

Well, how many times have you seen "let's make our own date/time/number/argument/xml parser"?
Weeks of programming can save you from the arduous task of 5 minutes of searching Google.

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Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by shutdown+-p+now · 2014-09-30 12:13 · Score: 1

Windows 8 was unified experience for all devices, so long as by "unified" you meant "behaves like a tablet".
This is an unified experience in a sense of the same app running on all platforms from phone to tablet to desktop, and with some UI notions that are meaningful across all devices working everywhere (e.g. a live tile behaves the same on phone/tablet start screen, or in the desktop start menu), while also recognizing that, no, not every device is a tablet, and so many things have to be tailored to the device in question - such as the return of Start menu, and the ability to run store apps in windows, on the desktop.
Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by unixisc · 2014-09-30 12:15 · Score: 2

You're not the only one, obviously, and that's intentional. By calling it Windows 10, they're trying to put as much distance as possible between it and Windows 8. And make 7 look even more "old".
I saw the video. The thing looks like Windows 7 when the keyboard is joined at the hip, and when it's removed to make it a tablet mode, it looks like Windows 8. Given this, Microsoft could have named this thing Windows 15 - adding up 7 & 8.
I hated Windows 8 - so I removed it, and replaced it w/ PC-BSD, and now there's no looking back. However, the good news on this one is that people can now skip Windows 8 and go directly to Windows 10. I think they want to make the even numbers attractive, instead of the odd.
Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by Wolfrider · 2014-09-30 13:37 · Score: 1

--That will get you a very loud AMEN. We don't necessarily *need* a unified input method for tablets, phones and desktops - but they keep trying to force it on us. Desktop is an entirely different beast, one that most people are more familiar with - and *have* to be productive on.

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== WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by similar_name · 2014-09-30 13:41 · Score: 1

Just run setver
Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by xvan · 2014-09-30 13:44 · Score: 1

To lazy to search, but what are they planning to do for addressing the arch compatibility issues?
Wasn't that the main cause why the ditched their RT version? Users were unable to gasp the difference between the devices and ended returning them?
Re: Unified Experience Across Devices by epyT-R · 2014-09-30 14:33 · Score: 1

No. XP was 5.1, 2003 and xp64 was 5.2
Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by shutdown+-p+now · 2014-09-30 14:42 · Score: 1

It's not clear. Someone at the presentation actually asked a question about Win10 tablets and ARM, but it was dodged and redirected towards phones.
Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by spongman · 2014-09-30 15:12 · Score: 1

who's to say the supposed built-in would perform any better?
Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by jd2112 · 2014-09-30 15:49 · Score: 1

who's to say the supposed built-in would perform any better?
It's comparing numbers, not exactly rocket science.
Perhaps some custom code might run faster but how many times does a program need to compare version numbers during execution?

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Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by strikethree · 2014-09-30 16:53 · Score: 1

Dev on MS is much easier to cross over platforms than it was in the past.
How can it be easier since you can only develop for ONE platform. Microsoft.

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Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by hcs_$reboot · 2014-09-30 18:20 · Score: 1

Nadella wants to put some distance between Ballmer and himself. Starting from 10 is a good start (and a new design, new features would also help ...)

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Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by davester666 · 2014-09-30 18:42 · Score: 1

Um, Windows is set to use bing by default....and everybody prefers not to use it.

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Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by Half-pint+HAL · 2014-09-30 23:48 · Score: 1

I don't care for consistency in UI between my smart phone and my desktop. On my smartphone, I am stuck with a tiny screen, with not input method other than my fingers and a couple of buttons.
Are you? Higher end Android devices can be hooked up to a USB keyboard and an HDMI equipped screen. If Windows 10 switches into desktop mode when docked with a screen, keyboard and mouse (or the phone screen becomes a glorified touchpad) then it will be the computing device I've been waiting for for over a decade. (But it probably won't, because that would cut into their sales figures.)

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Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by AmiMoJo · 2014-09-30 23:51 · Score: 1

To be fair it seems like they are offering different UIs for different devices now, but all in the same underlying OS and with the same apps. It could work well if done right. For example Chrome is the same code base on desktop and mobile devices, and the UI varies between them as needed. It even varies between phone and tablet.
Of course, it remains to be see if they can pull it off.

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Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by asylumx · 2014-10-01 00:53 · Score: 1

WP 8 and 8.1 are WAY better than WM6. Have you tried using a windows phone lately? It's actually a very good experience. Even Apple fanbois are starting to convert.
Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by VGPowerlord · 2014-10-01 02:21 · Score: 1

Very likely.
I thought I saw an article about why the version number was 6.1 in Raymond Chen's Old New Thing blog, but my Google-fu is apparently failing to locate it.

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GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
Re: Unified Experience Across Devices by Sun · 2014-10-01 03:29 · Score: 1

Just to add pedanticity (pedanticness?) to the discussion....
You forgot Windows 95 OSR2 and Windows 98SE, both technically OS versions of their own.
Shachar
Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by RoLi · 2014-10-01 04:40 · Score: 1

Microsoft marketing has a way to forget the past.
I remember how they were so proud of Windows-Phone (~2% marketshare) because it was so much more "successful" than the old Windows-Mobile (~10% marketshare).
Or look at the XBox: First they proclaimed that they would just sink a couple of billion to "build the platform" - and look how that worked for XBone. Of course it doesn't make any sense when you break compatibility with every new version: Any XBox version is a incompatible to any other version, so they are different platforms.
I guess that kind of incompetence and stupidity is a consequence of having just too much money flowing in from over 20 year old products (Windows and Office).
Basically Microsoft could just sit back and release Windows with a new wallpaper and small updates - but they even screwed that up with Windows 8.
Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by RoLi · 2014-10-01 04:44 · Score: 1

You luddite! Next you will tell me you want different interfaces for your refrigerator and your car!
Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by Ravaldy · 2014-10-01 06:37 · Score: 1

Yes. Same code for phone, tablet and PC. Arm or X86. That's the beauty of their dev tools. Little to no tweaking between devices. This isn't the case for Apple or Linux.
Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by StikyPad · 2014-10-01 09:26 · Score: 1

Given this, Microsoft could have named this thing Windows 15 - adding up 7 & 8.
Technically 15 is 7 OR 8.
7 AND 8 is 0. Which might actually be more appropriate. Windows 0.

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Re:Unified Experience Across Devices by Half-pint+HAL · 2014-10-01 11:42 · Score: 1

My mobile phone is more powerful than my first mini-tower, IBM compatible PC. The processor is more powerful and there's more onboard RAM than the hard-disk of said PC. That PC did well enough for all my coursework programming projects and all my write-ups including my honours project. If you want to play the latest games or edit HD video you need a full spec PC, anything else... not so much.

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Skipping a version number by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 06:03 · Score: 1

That's like jumping a shark, innit?

Re:Skipping a version number by TubeSteak · 2014-09-30 06:07 · Score: 4, Insightful

They're not skipping a version number.
Windows 9 is basically going to be a Service Pack for Windows 8.
Confirmed: Windows 9 to be a free upgrade for Windows 8 users
Releasing Win10 so quickly supports the idea that Win9 is just an update.
Win10 is really what they want all the Win7 users to move to.

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o0t!
Re:Skipping a version number by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 06:11 · Score: 1

Also how long before we have firefox 50?
(50-32)*6 = 108 weeks
Re:Skipping a version number by Aighearach · 2014-09-30 06:12 · Score: 2

It gives a +1 to all Shark Jump saving throws for 6 months, but they have to spend an extra 1m GP explaining it.
Re:Skipping a version number by omnichad · 2014-09-30 06:17 · Score: 1

We've already had 95 and 98. Those both start with a 9...
Re:Skipping a version number by WheezyJoe · 2014-09-30 06:23 · Score: 1

Microsoft has never respected numbers much.
Windows 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, 3.11, NT 3.1, NT 3.5, NT 3.51, Windows 95, NT 4, Windows 98, Win2000, Windows ME, WinXP, Windows 7, Windows 8.... you see? all over the place.
What they DO tend to respect is focus groups, and they maybe determined that 10 is sexier than 9, perhaps to imply more distance from (pfft) 8
(or steal from spotlight from OS X)?

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Re:Skipping a version number by UnknownSoldier · 2014-09-30 06:23 · Score: 1

What's is really strange is that I just posted this a few hours earlier ...

> LOL. Microsoft admit they were wrong or clueless? That's funny!
> They just release a new version with revised function, form, and don't talk about the previous version hoping that it will eventually go away.
Re:Skipping a version number by BarbaraHudson · 2014-09-30 06:24 · Score: 4, Informative

Not quite. If you read the article, what the article is calling "Windows 9" is now "Windows 10."
Also, from the same site, if your computer came with Windows 8 installed, you'll have to pay to upgrade. Which ain't gonna happen.

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"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Re:Skipping a version number by Minwee · 2014-09-30 06:44 · Score: 5, Funny

Calling it "Windows 8.2" would support the idea that Windows 9 was just an update.
Skipping straight to Windows 10 makes it look like they're either just messing with us, or trying to compete with WordPerfect again.
Re:Skipping a version number by BarbaraHudson · 2014-09-30 06:48 · Score: 2

There will be no free upgrade if your computer came with Win8.x pre-installed. And there is not going to be a Windows 9 - they skipped directly to 10.

The Windows 9 upgrade might not be as free as initially believed
... just those customers who have purchased a Windows 8 (or Windows 8.1) copy will qualify for free upgrades. Users who have purchased a computer with Windows 8 preinstalled (OEM version of the software) will have to pay a fee.
Guess they wanted to catch up to Apple OSX version 10. Same as when one linux distro would bump their version number, others would to, even if that meant skipping a few digits in the process, so they wouldn't seem "behind."

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"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Re:Skipping a version number by BarbaraHudson · 2014-09-30 06:53 · Score: 1

Or they really, really want to make Windows 7 look obsolete, because, like the people who refused to upgrade from XP, it's "good enough."
Good enough so that the old joke "Q: Why is the number 10 scared? A: Because 7 8 9" would be the joke de jour to "explain why 9 (or 10) can't get market traction" :-)

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"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Re:Skipping a version number by Newander · 2014-09-30 06:57 · Score: 1

I'm not sure that this wasn't intended, but you forgot Vista.

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Re:Skipping a version number by SJHillman · 2014-09-30 07:02 · Score: 4, Informative

Here's the thing... those are are marketing numbers, not version numbers. If you go by their internal version numbers, they make a lot more sense, and better reflect incremental changes vs total rewrites.
Windows 2000 - 5.0
Windows XP - 5.1
Windows XP 64-Bit/Server 2003 (incl R2) - 5.2
Windows Vista/Server 2008 - 6.0
Windows Server 2008 R2 - 6.1
Windows 7 - 6.1
Windows 8 - 6.2
Windows Server 2012 R2 - 6.3
Windows 8.1 - 6.3
Before Windows 2000/XP, there were two completely separate OSes (NT and DOS), rather than simply different editions of the same OS. Because 2000 and later are the successors to NT, that's why it starts with 5.0.
So why did NT start at 3.x? Because it started life as the successor to OS/2 1.3 and 2.0, known as OS/2 3.0. When it shifted to become Windows rather than OS/2, it kept the version number.
The DOS based Windows go: 1.01, 1.03, 1.04, 2.0, 2.10, 2.11, 3.00, 3.10, 3.11, 3.2, 4.0 (Win95), 4.10 (Win98), 4.90 (WinMe)
Windows versioning numbers makes a lot more sense once you separate the marketing name from the actual version number. MS Office works the same way (e.g. Office 10 is Office XP).
Re:Skipping a version number by Megol · 2014-09-30 07:15 · Score: 1

NB that the major version number doesn't increase even for extensive rewrites of the core system. The reason is allegedly for compatibility.
Re:Skipping a version number by I'm+New+Around+Here · 2014-09-30 07:25 · Score: 1

Wait. what? I'm still on version 5.

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Re:Skipping a version number by LinuxIsGarbage · 2014-09-30 08:25 · Score: 1

At work I'm on 3.6. Just as they finally moved us from IE6 to FF, it was at version 3.6... which because 18 versions out of date pretty promptly
Re:Skipping a version number by DocHoncho · 2014-09-30 09:14 · Score: 1

I can!
Something very much like the, uh, modern hosts file was originally specified by rfc952 in 1985. So the venerable hosts file is nearly 30 years old! That's like 10,000 in computer years!
QED.

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Re:Skipping a version number by BarbaraHudson · 2014-09-30 11:42 · Score: 1

Its comedic how much effort you're putting in to comments focusing on the version number being 10 rather than 9. When did the audience of slashdot change such that instead of technical discussions it's become all about marketing and licensing. Who really gives a shit about the name of it?

Obviously Microsoft does, and their marketing department told them "get as far from 7 and 8 as possible. We need to make 7 look old and obsolete, or nobody will upgrade. And you already know why we need to put extra space between 8 and the next version."
In effect, this is confirming what many people think. Windows 7 is the new Windows XP - it's going to be hard to get people to make the upgrade, because it already does what they want, and the next version (Windows 8 in the case of Windows 7, and Vista in the case of XP) really sucked^Wfailed to meet user expectations. In both cases, the previous version got heavily entrenched and became almost impossible to move from.

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"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Re:Skipping a version number by Insanity+Defense · 2014-09-30 12:04 · Score: 1

NT started at 1.0. It jumped to 3.1 to synchronize version numbers with Windows 3.1 for DOS. Couldn't have people thinking NT was behind DOS/Windows.
Re:Skipping a version number by dbIII · 2014-09-30 17:05 · Score: 1

You forgot Vista. I wish I could.
Re:Skipping a version number by Barsteward · 2014-09-30 18:56 · Score: 1

I think you need to get double Microsoft Nerd Points for knowing/remembering all that

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Re:Skipping a version number by TrollingForHostFiles · 2014-09-30 19:09 · Score: 1

Funny that you can't seem to remember this, you mean?

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Re:Skipping a version number by godefroi · 2014-10-01 03:28 · Score: 1

That article claims that Windows 9 will be announced on Sept 30. So much for that, then, right?

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Re:Skipping a version number by SJHillman · 2014-10-01 07:03 · Score: 1

What part is speculation? The internal version number isn't exactly a secret. Open up a commandline and type "ver". There's a lot of other things about Windows that are well known whether or not you have the source.
Re:Skipping a version number by SJHillman · 2014-10-01 07:08 · Score: 1

I had to look up some of it, but knowing the internal version number can be seriously helpful if you're writing a script that needs to do different things depending on what version of Windows it's running on (such as looking for "C:\Users\Public\Public Desktop\" vs "C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Desktop\", as a simple example). Getting that version number from the command line is as easy as "ver"
Re:Skipping a version number by soundman32 · 2014-10-01 08:27 · Score: 1

Don't let Raymond hear you look up paths this way. I hope your script doesn't run on a corporate network where they remap those paths! There is a proper API to look up these directories (and has been since Win98 or so).

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No sharp objects, I'm a programmer!

Need to see how to get in the Windows Insider Prog by WilliamGeorge · 2014-09-30 06:03 · Score: 1, Insightful

Yes, I'm sort of a MS fanboy (less so that I was years ago, but still). Flame me all you want. Sounds like this could be a cool update :)

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William George

Better call it Windows 11 by jkrise · 2014-09-30 06:03 · Score: 5, Insightful

Everyone knows the even number versions suck.

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If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....

Re:Better call it Windows 11 by synapse7 · 2014-09-30 06:06 · Score: 1

Maybe they are letting you know something.
Re:Better call it Windows 11 by plebeian · 2014-09-30 06:16 · Score: 5, Informative

Everyone knows the even number versions suck.
You forget windows 2000. When compared to the alternatives at the time it was a kick a$$ operating system.

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Re:Better call it Windows 11 by jfdavis668 · 2014-09-30 06:28 · Score: 4, Funny

This one goes to 11, it's one louder
Re:Better call it Windows 11 by scm · 2014-09-30 06:43 · Score: 4, Informative

Wasn't Windows 2000 technically version 5.0? IIRC that's the version number it reported. Also IIRC, XP was 5.1, Vista was 6.0.
Re:Better call it Windows 11 by jd2112 · 2014-09-30 06:46 · Score: 2

Everyone knows the even number versions suck.
I was hoping for a Spinal Tap reference...

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Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
Re:Better call it Windows 11 by jfdavis668 · 2014-09-30 07:03 · Score: 1

Windows 7 is 6.1. Go figure.
Re:Better call it Windows 11 by Atrox666 · 2014-09-30 07:07 · Score: 1

NT 3.51 - blech
NT4 - Not bad
Re:Better call it Windows 11 by Megol · 2014-09-30 07:17 · Score: 1

And? The reason for the existence of an internal version number is for internal use - it doesn't signify the extent of changes between versions.
Re:Better call it Windows 11 by MTEK · 2014-09-30 07:19 · Score: 2

Right-on! No self-respecting geek would install that Windows ME shit.
Re:Better call it Windows 11 by VorpalRodent · 2014-09-30 07:56 · Score: 3, Funny

It's the alphanumeric ones that suck.
I'm holding out for Windows !

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Re:Better call it Windows 11 by LinuxIsGarbage · 2014-09-30 08:27 · Score: 1

Could end up with WINDOWS !) if they're in a big rush to get it packaged.
Re:Better call it Windows 11 by ConceptJunkie · 2014-09-30 12:30 · Score: 1

NT 3.51 was one of the most stable OSes I've ever used, if not the most stable. NT 4 was still pretty good, minus the even number service packs. Windows 2000 was excellent, minus Explorer, which for me usually crashed within an hour of a fresh install. I always liked XP once you turned on the Playskool theme. Nothing since XP has impressed me. Just more bloat, and more effort to get it to look and act like it used to.

--
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Re:Better call it Windows 11 by steelfood · 2014-09-30 13:16 · Score: 1

I believe the order goes: pre-95 (good), 95 (suck), NT4 (good), 98 (suck), 2000 (good), ME (suck), XP (good), Vista (suck), 7 (good).
Windows versions pre-95 were all good because DOS did all the sucking.

--
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
Re:Better call it Windows 11 by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 13:37 · Score: 1

Wasn't Windows 2000 technically version 5.0? IIRC that's the version number it reported. Also IIRC, XP was 5.1, Vista was 6.0.
Yes. The real rule is that the x.1 versions of Windows are the good ones:
Windows 3.1 (fixed most of the horrible bugs in 3.0)
Windows 98 (actually Windows 4.1)
Windows XP (NT 5.1)
Windows 7 (NT 6.1)
Apparently MS's new versioning scheme means there will never be a major version number higher than 6, which implies there will never be another x.1 release of Windows. Whether this means there will never again be a *good* release of Windows remains to be seen, although so far the correlation's holding quite well...
Re:Better call it Windows 11 by dbIII · 2014-09-30 17:12 · Score: 1

It nerfed the file sharing of NT4 to only a few connections and make workgroups useless, forcing us back to a central server model - preferably one with SAMBA instead of an arbitrary connection limit.
That loss of a feature is actually what pushed my workplace from NT4 + Hummingbird Exceed to linux desktops nearly everywhere. If MS Windows machines can't talk to MS Windows machines effectively and that's the only reason you are on the platform then why stay on it?
Re:Better call it Windows 11 by AmiMoJo · 2014-09-30 23:54 · Score: 1

The last one to have a boot up tune as well. After that they switched to a simple sound effect instead of music.
I kinda miss those tunes. They were a nice little celebration that the computer didn't crash on boot. If they stuttered you knew your PC sucked and couldn't multi-task. The only flaw was that there was usually a few more minutes of loading start-up apps after they finished before the OS was really ready to use.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC

Windows OS X by glennrrr · 2014-09-30 06:05 · Score: 5, Insightful

Sounds familiar.

Re:Windows OS X by kthreadd · 2014-09-30 06:08 · Score: 1

Well, there was a Mac OS 9. They just happened to stay at 10.
Re:Windows OS X by WillAffleckUW · 2014-09-30 06:55 · Score: 1

next version is Win XX and then Win XXX, the Vin Diesel version.

--
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Re:Windows OS X by Art3x · 2014-09-30 07:48 · Score: 5, Funny

Sounds familiar.
Yes, they should use the Roman numeral and call this Windows X. Apple did it, and it was cool. Then they could call their next version Windows 10 Plus, or for short, Windows XP. Businesses will jump right on that one.
Re:Windows OS X by kthreadd · 2014-09-30 08:29 · Score: 1

They also planned to have release ready every six months. It's wasn't called Mac OS 9 at first, they used code names like Sonata.
Re:Windows OS X by markdavis · 2014-09-30 19:24 · Score: 1

Exactly. And I have to point out to people all the time that it is, in fact, Apple MacOS 10 (ten) not "ecks". It is so stupid and redundant when I hear/see something like "OS X version 10.3"... it is not "Operating system version 10 version 10.3" it is really just MacOS 10.3.
Apple has marketed their stupid version number into something they can not and will never change now. There will probably never be a "MacOS XI" and "MacOS X version 11" makes no sense.

we are DOOOMED!!! by ganjadude · 2014-09-30 06:06 · Score: 4, Funny

based on previous rollouts, we are doomed. xp - good, vista - garbage. 7 good- 8 garbage. if we are skipping 9 (which historically would be the good release) and go to 10 will be a disaster! Someone needs to tell MS that users skip a generation of windows, not them!

--
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same

Re:we are DOOOMED!!! by nine-times · 2014-09-30 06:22 · Score: 5, Insightful

Nah, it's fine. Every other release is garbage, not every odd number. How would you possibly try to figure out Microsoft's numbering, anyway? Their version numbers go from 3 to 95, jumps to 98, 2000, then goes to the lettering, ME and XP (are those roman numerals?). Then in goes to Vista. Now, lets be fair. 95 and 98 are the years, so let's just count. So 95 is version 4, 98 is version 5, 2000 is version 6, ME is version 8, XP is version 9, and Vista is version 10. So next comes 11, right? Nope, version 7.
Ok, but some of those were professional builds, right? So let's just start from NT v4 and count major NT releases. 2000 is version 5, XP is version 6, Vista is version 7, and... wait.
Wait, wait, I know, let's look at Microsoft's internal versioning numbers. NTv4 is version 4, 2000 is version 5, XP is version 5.1, Vista is version 6. Ok this is making sense, because next version after vista (v6) should be 7, right? Nope, Windows 7's internal version number is v6.1. Windows 8 is version 6.2. WTF?
Re:we are DOOOMED!!! by chuckugly · 2014-09-30 06:35 · Score: 5, Insightful

Engineering, meet marketing.

The internal version numbers are completely sensible, the marketing names are dreamed up by marketing people, what did you expect, logic?
Re:we are DOOOMED!!! by mythosaz · 2014-09-30 06:50 · Score: 1

ME and XP (are those roman numerals?).
P was used in the middle ages for 400, and E for 250, so..
1250 and 390, I guess.
Re:we are DOOOMED!!! by Ravaldy · 2014-09-30 07:00 · Score: 1

Many changes in marketing direction. Many companies back in the day adopted years for their software and eventually went to release names and finally went back to basics which is version number. Behind the scenes the number continued to increase as version numbers went up. E.g. Vista was the save version number as Windows 2008 and Windows 7 was same version as Windows 2008 R2.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter. The product's ability to deliver what is was built for is what matters and their PC sales prove they appeals to 90% of the population.
Re:we are DOOOMED!!! by jfdavis668 · 2014-09-30 07:00 · Score: 1

I'm going to sing the doom song now...
Re:we are DOOOMED!!! by cnaumann · 2014-09-30 07:13 · Score: 1

You forgot Bob.
Re:we are DOOOMED!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 07:28 · Score: 1

...then goes to the lettering, ME and XP (are those roman numerals?)
Nope, Greek, not Roman: XP = Chi-Rho ("Cairo"). Or so I've read.
Re:we are DOOOMED!!! by I'm+New+Around+Here · 2014-09-30 07:34 · Score: 1

At the end of the day it doesn't matter. The product's ability to deliver what is was built for is what matters and their PC sales prove they appeals to 90% of the population.
Faulty logic. Your assumption would mean that chains and whips appealed to 90% of slaves.

--
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
Re:we are DOOOMED!!! by gstoddart · 2014-09-30 07:37 · Score: 1

based on previous rollouts, we are doomed. xp - good, vista - garbage
You know, vista wasn't terrible if you threw enough resources at it.
I've been running it on a quad-core machine with 8GB of RAM since 2009. It's my daily desktop.
And I can honestly say I've been quite happy with it. Which, I know isn't something you hear every day. :-P

--
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:we are DOOOMED!!! by Eristone · 2014-09-30 08:29 · Score: 2

Slaves weren't their intended customers. Chains and whips appealed to 90% of slave owners. (Keep this in mind when you consider Facebook and end users aren't the intended customers....) :)
Re:we are DOOOMED!!! by ArcadeMan · 2014-09-30 08:40 · Score: 2

It doesn't add up. Fruit - good. Cake - great. Fruitcake - nasty crap.
Jim Gaffigan

--
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
Re:we are DOOOMED!!! by houghi · 2014-09-30 08:50 · Score: 1

As if those release names only are there for marketing ...
Oh wait, they are. They could call it "Windows New" for all I care. The names mean nothing. They just figured that they could sell more by naming it with a higher number than the previous one. If tbhey thought they would sell more by using something else, they would use that.

--
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Re:we are DOOOMED!!! by nine-times · 2014-09-30 11:34 · Score: 1

A few people responded to me as though I thought I'd leveled from amazing criticism of Microsoft. I'm just pointing out that you can't make anything out of Microsoft's version numbers. But that's kind of true in general, regarding version numbers. They don't necessarily mean anything. Some developers actually use them to mean something, while others seem to increase them at completely arbitrary intervals.
Re:we are DOOOMED!!! by mrprogrammerman · 2014-09-30 13:13 · Score: 1

Whoosh!
Re:we are DOOOMED!!! by chuckugly · 2014-09-30 18:03 · Score: 1

I was just agreeing with you, and pointing out that the numbers on the box are not version numbers, they are marketing labels.
Re:we are DOOOMED!!! by ganjadude · 2014-10-01 00:41 · Score: 1

woooosh

Having said that I agree with you. I am running a win 8 machine with a stardock start button replacement and it is pretty damn good.

--
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same

Missed opportunity by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 06:06 · Score: 2, Funny

They should have called it Windows X.

Re: Missed opportunity by VTBlue · 2014-09-30 06:13 · Score: 5, Funny

The coolest things have X:
OS X
Windows X
Xbox
Malcolm X
Mega Man X
X-wing ...
Xylophone
Re: Missed opportunity by Spy+Handler · 2014-09-30 06:29 · Score: 2

X-Men and X-Com blow away all of those in coolness. And fun.
Re:Missed opportunity by Eristone · 2014-09-30 06:31 · Score: 1

Can't call it Windows X - too easily confused with X Windows.
Re:Missed opportunity by __aaclcg7560 · 2014-09-30 06:32 · Score: 1

Looking forward to all the naughty bits in WinXXX when it comes out.
Re: Missed opportunity by rodrigoandrade · 2014-09-30 06:53 · Score: 3, Insightful

But coolest things have 3 X's.
Re: Missed opportunity by Calydor · 2014-09-30 07:07 · Score: 4, Funny

No, those are the hottest things, not the coolest.

--
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
Re: Missed opportunity by Richy_T · 2014-09-30 08:01 · Score: 1

Or gone hex: Widows A
Or maybe Windows 0x0A
Re: Missed opportunity by Richy_T · 2014-09-30 08:02 · Score: 5, Funny

Or, (can't believe I missed this) Windows 0Ah
Abbreviated as "W0Ah" and endorsed by Keanu Reeves
Re:Missed opportunity by Solandri · 2014-09-30 08:06 · Score: 1

Can't call it Windows X - too easily confused with X Windows.
No confusion at all.

Win X
Is
Not
X Windows
= Win X

Hey it works for a bunch of other FOSS projects.
Re:Missed opportunity by sound+vision · 2014-09-30 08:36 · Score: 1

They might be trying to X-tinguish (embrace, x-tend, )
Re:Missed opportunity by gbjbaanb · 2014-09-30 09:59 · Score: 1

They tried to call it Windows One, but someone noticed they'd already released that version, so it got changed to "Windows One Nothing", or Windows 10 as written in the short form.
Re: Missed opportunity by RightwingNutjob · 2014-09-30 10:40 · Score: 1

And don't forget X11. Wayland-tards' complaints bitching and moaning notwithstanding.
Re: Missed opportunity by Snufu · 2014-09-30 11:06 · Score: 1

I'm too Xy for this post.
Re: Missed opportunity by edxwelch · 2014-09-30 11:19 · Score: 1

except X-Wife
Re: Missed opportunity by FrankSchwab · 2014-09-30 14:02 · Score: 1

Oh, that's funny right there. Wish I had some mod points for you - I think I'm going to start using that name.
"Hey, when are we planning on upgrading to...Woah?"

--
And the worms ate into his brain.
Re: Missed opportunity by naddington · 2014-09-30 16:45 · Score: 1

Dogg did you really forget X11?
Re:Missed opportunity by kammermusik · 2014-09-30 23:22 · Score: 1

Reminds me of the confusion in OpenOffice.org XML/OpenDocument vs. Office Open XML

April fools! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 06:07 · Score: 5, Funny

Truth stranger than fiction...

Re:April fools! by esperto · 2014-09-30 10:27 · Score: 1

If I'm the guy who wrote this article I would just run and dump my savings in Vegas.

That feature has been in windows since XP by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 06:09 · Score: 3, Interesting

I've been using JS Pager Virtual Desktop since the 1990's. It has all the features described here, and still works in Windows 7, even though it hasn't been updated since 2000.

Re:That feature has been in windows since XP by ShaunC · 2014-09-30 12:31 · Score: 1

It's not really a feature of Windows if you have to use a third-party utility, is it? That's like saying Napster has been a feature of Windows since 2000.

--
Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!

Re-Sizable Tiles? by TechyImmigrant · 2014-09-30 06:09 · Score: 2

Is a re-sizable tile like a window?

--
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.

Re:Re-Sizable Tiles? by TechyImmigrant · 2014-09-30 08:09 · Score: 1

So they're stuck to the bottom of the screen?
Can they be ajar?

--
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
Re:Re-Sizable Tiles? by NormalVisual · 2014-09-30 12:16 · Score: 4, Funny

Can they be ajar?

If they're written in Java, maybe.

--
Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
Re:Re-Sizable Tiles? by TechyImmigrant · 2014-09-30 12:20 · Score: 1

But jar jars blink.

--
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.

Re:Catching up with Fedora by Aighearach · 2014-09-30 06:09 · Score: 4, Funny

Yeah, the feature list sounds like a 90s linux desktop. Is Windows finally ready for the power-user desktop?! This could be the year.

Re:OMFG, stupid by kthreadd · 2014-09-30 06:09 · Score: 5, Funny

Look at it from the bright side, at least it wasn't called Windows One.

Microsoft skips 'too good' Windows 9, jumps to Win by neilo_1701D · 2014-09-30 06:10 · Score: 5, Funny

From InfoWorld, April 1, 2013:

If you've been looking forward to Windows 9, the OS that will fix what Windows 8 got wrong, you're in for a surprise: There will be no Windows 9. Instead, Microsoft announced it will proceed directly to Windows 10.

"The Windows 9 internal beta was a phenomenal success," said Microsoft PR rep Cheryl Tunt. "I mean, it blew Windows 8 out of the water, and as we all know, Windows 8 is nigh flawless. After discussion at the C level, Microsoft has decided it will not mess with success and will leave Windows 9 exactly as it is. As such, work is now getting under way on Windows 10, which should see a public release."

http://www.infoworld.com/artic...

No 9? by Retron · 2014-09-30 06:11 · Score: 5, Interesting

When I was a kid I remember reading that in Japanese, "4" sounded like death and "9" sounded like suffering. A quick bit of Googling 25 years on and:

"[In Japanese] Nine is also sometimes pronounced ku, which can mean suffering."

I'm guessing they skipped Windows 9 because they didn't want it to sound like "Windows Suffering" in parts of the world!

Re:No 9? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 06:16 · Score: 3, Informative

Windows Nine is pronounced like the German "Windows Nein", which means Windows No.
Re:No 9? by jfdavis668 · 2014-09-30 06:30 · Score: 1

Scared off by Yoko Ono?
Re:No 9? by argStyopa · 2014-09-30 06:53 · Score: 1

Because the mantra of a good storyteller is "show, don't tell"?

--
-Styopa
Re:No 9? by suutar · 2014-09-30 07:04 · Score: 1

This (and the AC's mention of German) makes more sense than anything else I've heard :)
Re:No 9? by baka_toroi · 2014-09-30 07:53 · Score: 4, Informative

Windows 7 is "uindouzu sebun" (seven) in Japanese, and not "nana" or "shichi." Same goes for 8 (eito instead of "hachi"), So 9 would've been "uindouzu nain" and not "ku."
Re:No 9? by Chris+Mattern · 2014-09-30 08:06 · Score: 2

Well, there you go. They didn't want to offend the *other* Axis nation by making "Windows Nein".
Re:No 9? by RyoShin · 2014-09-30 08:15 · Score: 1

Claim: The Chevrolet Nova sold poorly in Spanish-speaking countries because its name translates as "doesn't go" in Spanish. Excerpts:

Although "no va" can be literally translated as "no go," it would be a curious locution for a speaker of Spanish to use in reference to a car. Just as an English speaker would describe a broken-down car by saying that it "doesn't run" rather than it "doesn't go," so a Spanish speaker would refer to a malfunctioning automobile by saying "no marcha" or "no funciona" or "no camina" rather than "no va."
--
The truth is that the Chevrolet Nova's name didn't significantly affect its sales: it sold well in both its primary Spanish-language markets, Mexico and Venezuela. (Its Venezuelan sales figures actually surpassed GM's expectations.)

While my Japanese is only kawaii-desu-ne, I would be surprised if "Win(dows) 9" would really be that much of a problem. If they just called it "9", perhaps that might cause the allusion...
Also consider the Nintendo Wii. Yeah, there were people making fun of the name left and right (even I, a long-time fan of Nintendo, thought the name was stupid), but after it sold like hotcakes the jokes retreated and are only used by other gamer camps now. (But Wii U is still a stupid name.)
Re:No 9? by multimediavt · 2014-09-30 08:29 · Score: 1

I'm guessing they skipped Windows 9 because they didn't want it to sound like "Windows Suffering" in parts of the world!
Yeah, because just running it at all isn't causing suffering all over the world?
Re: No 9? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 10:12 · Score: 1

...or like the German, "Windows neun", which means, well, Windows Nine.
Re:No 9? by PPH · 2014-09-30 12:09 · Score: 1

Windows Suffering
That was Windows 8.

--
Have gnu, will travel.
Re:No 9? by cant_get_a_good_nick · 2014-09-30 13:03 · Score: 1

The truth is that the Chevrolet Nova's name didn't significantly affect its sales: it sold well in both its primary Spanish-language markets, Mexico and Venezuela. (Its Venezuelan sales figures actually surpassed GM's expectations.)
The Nova didn't sell well, because it wasn't a particularly good car. There were many times it DID'T run, didn't need a name to attach that condition to the car.
I wish i could attribute properly, but someone explained the Nova somewhat as "a person hearing a furniture set had notable workmanship, but ignoring it because it had no table" It puts spanish speakers in a bad light, claiming they can't tell the difference between languages.
That said, I think Alfa Romeo DID rename the 144 to the 148, for bad sounds in Cantonese. But they didn't do a Before and After rename sales comparison, so we'll never know if it can affect sales.
Re:No 9? by dafradu · 2014-09-30 13:21 · Score: 1

And ku in portuguese has the same sound of cu, the ass****.
Re:No 9? by GbrDead · 2014-09-30 22:14 · Score: 1

And .NET in Russian means .NO but that didn't stop them.
Re:No 9? by AmiMoJo · 2014-10-01 00:06 · Score: 1

Indeed, 9 does not seem to be a problem in Japan. I used to play a lot of A-Train 9, for example. It's not like 4 where manufacturers will always skip it. My Panasonic TV came out the year after the 3 series, but it's a 5 series because they skipped over 4.
I wonder if it's because of China. 9 seems to be unlucky there too. I think the ku reading is the Chinese reading. There are buildings in Hong Kong with no 4th, 9th or 13th floors.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:No 9? by baka_toroi · 2014-10-01 02:03 · Score: 1

Yup, it's the Chinese reading. I don't know much Chinese but it seems 4 is also a homonym with death (si4 if I'm not mistaken).
Also, the reading for death in Japanese (shi) came from Chinese, it's the on-yomi. So yeah, it's more of a China thing.

Re:OMFG, stupid by viperidaenz · 2014-09-30 06:11 · Score: 1, Funny

Perhaps he means you can over 500 miles to a tank on a Prius and only 265 in a Tesla model S

windows 10 by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 06:11 · Score: 1

clearly they are just using a base 9 numbering system like the rest of us should do too.

there are 10 types of people in the world -- those who count in binary and those who don't

I thought this was satire by Quick+Reply · 2014-09-30 06:11 · Score: 1

And then I realised we are nowhere near April 1. Maybe '10' is going back to year designations... Hang on that was 4 years ago. I can't help but to think that when they pull things like this (eg: 'ME') it is inevitably going to end in disaster, except this time they some actual competition from Google and Apple in the mobile space (which is on the verge of taking over the desktop)

Re:I thought this was satire by Qzukk · 2014-09-30 06:20 · Score: 1

Could be worse, they could have named it Windows One.

--
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Re:I thought this was satire by I'm+New+Around+Here · 2014-09-30 07:44 · Score: 1

Oh great! My Slashdot has been invaded by little-endians. Surely no big-endian would have made such a post.

--
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
Re:I thought this was satire by Megane · 2014-09-30 12:14 · Score: 1

But we are next to October 1, the day opposite April 1. Last year's October Fool's was Slashdot Beta (one year anniversary tomorrow!) This year's October Fool's is brought to you by Microsoft.

--
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }

Screenshots by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 06:12 · Score: 1

Already lots of screenshots available.

There are 10 kinds of people. Those who know binary and those who don't.

Re:Screenshots by NotInHere · 2014-09-30 06:23 · Score: 1

There are 0 kinds of people: Those who understand F_2 and those who don't.

Windows 10, huh? by ErichTheRed · 2014-09-30 06:13 · Score: 3, Interesting

I guess they want version parity with MacOS? Or they want to put it in people's minds that this version of Windows is so much better than 8, they had to skip a version number.

I just hope they listen to user feedback this time about the UI. If the Start menu is back, that's a good sign. I know a lot of people say it's a throwback, but the Metrofication of the familiar desktop was what caused our group to skip Windows 8 for inclusion in our product. (We provide a managed IT service to a very staid, boring industry that actively resists change.) I really really REALLY want Aero Glass or something like it back in the OS, or at least theming support that would allow a third party hack. Windows 8.1 Update 1 was pretty decent in terms of UI cleanup, and I hope they continue. Maybe they'll answer my other wish and fix the Office UI...having a background choice of white, bright white and insanely bright white is a killer on any screen larger than a tablet.

We'll see if they learned their lesson with Windows 8. Hopefully by the time the release rolls around, the tablet/social/mobile bubble will have at least deflated a little, and people might be back down on Earth wanting to do actual work on a laptop or desktop. Windows 8 and Server 2012 R2 are actually really nice under the hood, and excellent upgrades to Windows 7 -- but they're hobbled by a clunky UI that I've only recently come to terms with.

Re:Windows 10, huh? by langelgjm · 2014-09-30 06:22 · Score: 1

Too bad they didn't notice OS X is currently at 10.9...
Also, isn't the rule of thumb that it's every other version of Windows that's the good one? By skipping 9, are skipping straight to another bad one?

--
"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
Re:Windows 10, huh? by Megane · 2014-09-30 12:15 · Score: 1

Yep, time for Apple to go to eleven. And as we all know, that's one louder than ten.

--
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }

Re:Need to see how to get in the Windows Insider P by Aighearach · 2014-09-30 06:13 · Score: 5, Funny

Don't let them bring you down, I'm sure this is finally the update where windows is ready for the desktop. What do you have without your dreams?

Everything makes sense now! by xepel · 2014-09-30 06:13 · Score: 5, Funny

I used to think that Microsoft's problems were due to leadership issues and completely ignoring their userbase's wants and needs...

But no! Really, the problem is that they've been coding everything in base 9!

Now that Windows has reached version 10 by JoeyRox · 2014-09-30 06:13 · Score: 2

We can do a proper ten-point countdown to complete irrelevance.

Re:Now that Windows has reached version 10 by FatLittleMonkey · 2014-09-30 10:50 · Score: 1

Ten!
Eight!
Seven!
Vista!
XP!
2000!
ME!
98!
95!
3.11
3
2
1
DOS!
We have DOS of the Microsoft operating system. The processor is at 16 bit, and 86-DOS has cloned the CP/M.

--
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.

Upgrade cycle by dysmal · 2014-09-30 06:14 · Score: 1

Way to screw up our upgrade cycle here guys!!!

Huh? by LVSlushdat · 2014-09-30 06:14 · Score: 2

So let me get this straight.. what WAS going to be "Windows 9" is NOW "Windows 10"???? Idiot-central up there in Redmond.. Sooooo GLAD I retired from supporting MS's crap a few years ago.. Now I use Linux and damn glad about THAT!

--
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)

Re:Huh? by SternisheFan · 2014-09-30 06:43 · Score: 1

So let me get this straight.. what WAS going to be "Windows 9" is NOW "Windows 10"????
Seven Eight Nine.

Microsoft Math by dysmal · 2014-09-30 06:16 · Score: 3, Funny

This reminds me of something my first boss told me: "Microsoft can't tell time. Have you ever seen how it counts down 3 minutes... 2 minutes... 7 minutes... 2 minutes... 1 minute...? They can't tell time!"

Re: Microsoft Math by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 06:36 · Score: 1

obligatory
http://xkcd.com/612/
Re:Microsoft Math by jarlsberg71 · 2014-10-02 01:30 · Score: 1

I've heard them referred to as "Winutes" If you brand your own time, you can never be wrong!

--
E8B8B

Re:Microsoft skips 'too good' Windows 9, jumps to by cptdondo · 2014-09-30 06:20 · Score: 3, Funny

Translation:

It's such a screwed up mess that we don't know how to deal with it, so instead we're going to pull some marketing razzle dazzle and hope like hell people forget the mess we made.

But the real question is this:

If every other release sucks, and windows 8 sucked, and windows 9 is so good that it can't even be released, does that mean that Windows 10 will suck?

yes, more unification ! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 06:20 · Score: 1

because we all know that to make the ultimate porn movie you just mix parts of all fetishes and perversions that exist, and then all perverts will be extremely satisfied by your ultimate porn movie.

Re:yes, more unification ! by Zynder · 2014-09-30 11:38 · Score: 1

I'm going to need a link to, ummm, validate this theory....

Did Firefox buy Microsoft? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 06:20 · Score: 1

Apparently Firefox's deal with Google was so lucrative, they now have enough money to buy Microsoft.

I'm holding out for Windows 29, scheduled to be out next week.

At This Rate by NEDHead · 2014-09-30 06:23 · Score: 3, Funny

How long before I can reinstall Windows 95 and be up to date?

Re:At This Rate by jfdavis668 · 2014-09-30 06:58 · Score: 3, Funny

I was thinking of going back to Windows 2.11. Screw this Internet crap.
Re:At This Rate by jd2112 · 2014-09-30 07:24 · Score: 2

How long before I can reinstall Windows 95 and be up to date?
About 7 years and a few months. It appears that Microsoft is adopting the Chrome/Firefox versioning system. Version number will be increased by 1 on every patch Tuesday.

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Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.

Wait, what? by gstoddart · 2014-09-30 06:23 · Score: 1, Troll

So, most people still prefer Windows 7, Windows 8/8.1 is only slowly getting market share and people apparently don't like it much, Windows 9 is supposed to come out this fall ... and somehow we're also expecting a Windows 10 next year?

Does Microsoft think people will pay them annually for an upgrade? Or that we'll buy new machines to run this new thing?? They might be sorely disappointed with that.

With the new version of the operating system, they'll be unifying the application platform for all devices: desktops, laptops, tablets, and phones

Hmmm ... so they're going to have one big enormous bloated build for all platforms? Is that what this means?

Right, because your phone should carry all of the bloat which goes along with a server.

And, once again, one wonders if Microsoft really has any understanding of the mobile market.

Unless your phone has the same specs as your desktop, this isn't really going to be workable, is it?

I commend them for finally adding virtual desktops ... a feature they've only occasionally realized people actually want, but the rest of this just makes me think they've lost the plot a little.

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Lost at C:>. Found at C.

Re:Wait, what? by squiggleslash · 2014-09-30 11:04 · Score: 1

They're not releasing "Windows 9" this year. They're renaming Windows 9 to Windows 10, and releasing that next year.

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Re:Wait, what? by jones_supa · 2014-09-30 18:46 · Score: 1

Now that was some classic anti-Microsoft-rage.

Camel = Horse designed by committee... by erp_consultant · 2014-09-30 06:24 · Score: 2, Interesting

That's what Windows 10 looks like to me - a Camel. Mixing "traditional" apps with "Metro" tiles looks ridiculous. Why can't MS just leave Windows 8 behind? It was an experiment and it failed - massively. Yet they are still stubbornly handing on to "tiles" and such.

On the bright side...

1) Nice to see the Start Menu back...if only they could drop those stupid tiles.
2) Multiple desktops is nice. Been using it on OSX and Linux forever. From what I can tell the functionality seems a bit limited in Windows 10 but it's a start.

I've been using Windows 8 for about a year now on my home PC and, metro interface aside, it's great. Very stable, requires little in the way of resources. It looks awful but runs well. That's what Microsoft should be taking away from this. The guts of the system are fine. Fix the interface.

What I'd like to see is something similar to Linux where you can choose the interface you want (Mint, KDE, etc.) from the login screen and it just loads it up. So if you're running a desktop with a big screen you get something that looks a lot like Windows 7. If it's a table or phone, give 'em tiles.

This "one size fits all" approach is just an abomination.

Re:Camel = Horse designed by committee... by neilo_1701D · 2014-09-30 06:34 · Score: 4, Informative

2) Multiple desktops is nice. Been using it on OSX and Linux forever. From what I can tell the functionality seems a bit limited in Windows 10 but it's a start.
Windows, since XP, has had this ability. You needed a SysInternals tool to enable it. But, finally, a welcome addition.

I've been using Windows 8 for about a year now on my home PC and, metro interface aside, it's great. .... The guts of the system are fine.
And that, my friend, is the great tragedy that is Windows 8. Underneath the flawed user interface is the best Windows NT system ever. Considering what it does, it uses less memory, is more stable, runs faster and is downright better than any Windows before.
Re:Camel = Horse designed by committee... by WillAffleckUW · 2014-09-30 06:59 · Score: 1

Camels are adapted to their environment.
Windows ... not at all. It provides a familiar interface to a collection of hardware and software.
By changing it so that customers hate it, MSFT make people want to "upgrade" even less.
Now excuse me, I have to wipe my touch screen again from spewing up my latte after hearing about WinDex.

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-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Re:Camel = Horse designed by committee... by Whorhay · 2014-09-30 07:15 · Score: 1

I've never really understood the use of having multiple desktops under the same user. To me it has always struck me as a way of making work harder because now you have things seperated even further. I like having two monitors because I want more desktop space, using virtual desktops doesn't give you more space because you still end up tabbing back and forth between them.
Re:Camel = Horse designed by committee... by Dr_Barnowl · 2014-09-30 07:52 · Score: 2

It's more of a task-switching thing for me.
I have multiple contexts I work in during the day. Each time I change tasks, but don't want to close the windows for the task I was doing before, I move to a new desktop. That, plus one desktop devoted entirely to communications (email, social media, etc), and I can switch between contexts with one or two ctrl-alt-arrow key combos, rather than painstakingly reconstructing the window layout each time I switch.
Until the OS supports saving a group of apps, complete with window position, open documents, etc (which would require a lot of app support), this is the best solution to task switching I've got.
Re:Camel = Horse designed by committee... by the+eric+conspiracy · 2014-09-30 07:56 · Score: 1

After Windows 8 a camel would be a huge improvement.
Re:Camel = Horse designed by committee... by erp_consultant · 2014-09-30 08:19 · Score: 2

I find that it works best if you have a laptop and no secondary monitor. On my home office desktop machine I have 2 external monitors so I have no need for multiple virtual desktops.
If I find myself using my laptop then it can be handy to have virtual desktops. For me, it keeps things neater and cleaner. I can devote one desktop for email/skype/etc. A second desktop for spreadsheets, a third for remote desktop sessions.
It's nice to have the choice.
Re:Camel = Horse designed by committee... by erp_consultant · 2014-09-30 08:37 · Score: 1

An even greater tragedy is the Microsoft marketing department. Those clowns can't seem to sell anything in the consumer market (ok, XBox...I'll give you that). It seems that every marketing campaign falls flat on its face. Remember those ads with Jerry Seinfeld? Millions of dollars of MS shareholder money was wasted on that.
So instead of promoting what is good about W8 (smooth, stable, low memory requirements, etc.) they focus on a bunch of people dancing in an office. Great. Makes me want to just run out and buy one.
And who picks the colors they use? It's bad enough that the Contacts app takes up the whole screen and is virtually useless functionality wise. Just looking at the thing is nothing short of jarring. MS - ditch the clown paint and hire some designers that can create an appealing interface.
Re:Camel = Horse designed by committee... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 09:34 · Score: 1

Actually, no - they broke the backup infrastructure, the broke USB3 support in the emergency recovery tools (so you have to restore via USB2 - hope your brand new laptop has that), you can't boot into recovery from a microSD (meaning recovering to a tablet is nearly impossible) and did all they could to make it literally disposable.
Re:Camel = Horse designed by committee... by crunchygranola · 2014-09-30 11:59 · Score: 1

Windows ... not at all. It provides a familiar interface to a collection of hardware and software.
By changing it so that customers hate it, MSFT make people want to "upgrade" even less.
Worse than that for the Wintel duopoly - they are suppressing sales of new machines. I have a home Windows computer which I keep to run Windows-only apps for my family that I would like to upgrade, but no way am I buying a system with Windows 8. I could buy a system with Windows 7 still, but I have to pay extra for a limited selection - basically a "business system", when all I want is a cheap little box.
So that old system still limps along, waiting for the day when I can get a replacement that the family won't loathe, meanwhile Wintel are throwing away a sale.

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Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
Re:Camel = Horse designed by committee... by El_Oscuro · 2014-09-30 13:44 · Score: 3, Informative

In Linux, the killer feature is that each desktop has a separate taskbar. I once had several major migrations running from my workstation, and had a separate deskop named for each one of them. This feature made keeping track of the tasks in each project much easier.

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"Be grateful for what you have. You may never know when you may lose it."
Re:Camel = Horse designed by committee... by thetoastman · 2014-09-30 16:23 · Score: 1

It's more of a task-switching thing for me.
I have multiple contexts I work in during the day. Each time I change tasks, but don't want to close the windows for the task I was doing before, I move to a new desktop. That, plus one desktop devoted entirely to communications (email, social media, etc), and I can switch between contexts with one or two ctrl-alt-arrow key combos, rather than painstakingly reconstructing the window layout each time I switch.
Until the OS supports saving a group of apps, complete with window position, open documents, etc (which would require a lot of app support), this is the best solution to task switching I've got.
KDE Activities?
Re:Camel = Horse designed by committee... by Dutch+Gun · 2014-09-30 17:35 · Score: 1

MS - ditch the clown paint and hire some designers that can create an appealing interface.
It won't work. From what I can tell, the entire designer community is currently convinced that gradients, transparency, and actual buttons or menus you can see / distinguish are the devil, and everything should be either some completely flat shade of white on white, or else some hideous primary color that makes your eyes bleed.
Everywhere I look, I see formerly attractive interfaces turning flat and ugly. I was really hoping Windows 9... er 10 wouldn't keep the same horrible-looking theme, but it looks like they're sticking with it for now.

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Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
Re:Camel = Horse designed by committee... by RoLi · 2014-10-01 05:00 · Score: 1

An even greater tragedy is the Microsoft marketing department. Those clowns can't seem to sell anything in the consumer market (ok, XBox...I'll give you that).
Is that the same XBox that lost billions in the first versions, barely broke even in the second version and is now again losing billions in the third version?
Re:Camel = Horse designed by committee... by erp_consultant · 2014-10-01 06:07 · Score: 1

The same XBox. I was being generous and trying to appear to not be some anti MS troll. Not to suggest that you are but I digress....
My point was that MS can build decent hardware. The often mentioned MS mouse and keyboards good examples. The Zune music player had some good technical attributes, despite being a dismal failure in the marketplace. Same with the Surface tablet.
The problem MS has, in my view, is that they can make decent products but they can't seem to convince people in the consumer market to buy them. And that is a Sales and Marketing failure. Time and time again MS comes out with good products that flop in the consumer market.
XBox, from a financial standpoint, has lost a lot of money as you point out. But MS's stated intent was to get a presence in the "living room" and from that standpoint I think they have succeeded.

Re:OMFG, stupid by cayenne8 · 2014-09-30 06:25 · Score: 5, Funny

Shouldn't it be called "WinX"?

Then, we'd know it was on par and lock step with Apple's OS going forward.

;)

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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........

Little Nicky by sumdumfuk · 2014-09-30 06:27 · Score: 1

The guy from the video looks like Adam Sandler in the movie Little Nicky. His part is on the wrong side though. Kind of makes sense Nicky=Son of Satan Microsoft=Satan ;)

Re:OMFG, stupid by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 06:29 · Score: 2, Informative

Aside from being amazingly off-topic, how about you also point how how many non-Telsa fires there were last year? You know... the estimate of about 150,000. (http://www.nfpa.org/safety-information/for-consumers/vehicles). How about mentioning how many serious injuries were a result of Telsa fires? That one's easy, precisely zero.

Stop being an ass.

My favorite versioning plan by Cro+Magnon · 2014-09-30 06:31 · Score: 1

I think they should go back to year versioning. It's simple and easy to understand. It works for Office, Quicken, and my car.

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Re:My favorite versioning plan by ledow · 2014-09-30 07:04 · Score: 1

And provides a real-world slap in the face.
I had to explain to a school once that we were still deploying Office 2003 to students who came into the school system in 2004.
That seemed to wake them up a bit, when they realised that the reason the kids found the IT stuff strange was that they weren't even BORN when it first came out, and was nothing like they were using at home.
When they ask what the difference is between 2003 and 2013, you can say - with a straight face - the same as the difference between the 80's and the 90's. When they realise their lesson plans and teaching are 10 YEARS out of date, it kind of shakes them up a bit.

detailed feature list leaked! by sootman · 2014-09-30 06:33 · Score: 5, Funny

Full list of planned features here.

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Windows NG was a better name by Spy+Handler · 2014-09-30 06:34 · Score: 4, Funny

Windows: Next Generation

Can be shortened to WiNG

Maybe even a flying wing logo. (man oh man why didn't I become a genius advertising guru instead of a loser IT geek)

And the version after this could be called Windows into Darkness

Re:Windows NG was a better name by suutar · 2014-09-30 07:12 · Score: 4, Funny

Well, after avoiding 9, going to Windows DS9 would be silly, but Windows Voyager could work.
Re:Windows NG was a better name by Chris+Mattern · 2014-09-30 07:39 · Score: 1

...and when it boots up, we can have a sound clip of Patrick Steward saying, "Make it so!"
Re:Windows NG was a better name by sound+vision · 2014-09-30 08:38 · Score: 1

Then it sounds like a cheesy TV series.
Re:Windows NG was a better name by sootman · 2014-09-30 08:42 · Score: 1

No no no, you want Windows RG (Really Good) edition.

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They needed to set a precedent by seven+of+five · 2014-09-30 06:34 · Score: 1

In 5 years they can jump from 12 to 14 and it won't be a big deal.

Re:Microsoft skips 'too good' Windows 9, jumps to by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 06:35 · Score: 1

Article date: 4/1, April Fool's Day.

Quote source: Cheryl Tunt, who is a character on Archer.

You're welcome.

MS did this before with MS Word by Primate+Pete · 2014-09-30 06:35 · Score: 2

MS Word jumped directly from version 2.0c to version 6, so that MS could catch up with WordPerfect.

Oddly, changing the version numbering doesn't actually make the product better. Who'd have guessed that?

Re:MS did this before with MS Word by jfdavis668 · 2014-09-30 06:45 · Score: 4, Informative

Word for Windows jumped to 6 to match Word for Mac, not Wordperfect. Word on the Mac was already at 6.
Re:MS did this before with MS Word by Teresita · 2014-09-30 15:04 · Score: 1

Oddly, changing the version numbering doesn't actually make the product better. Who'd have guessed that?

I dunno, MS-DOS 4.01 was slightly better than MS-DOS 4.0. So I'm for waiting for Windows 10.01.
Re:MS did this before with MS Word by cbhacking · 2014-09-30 23:10 · Score: 1

Similarly, the very first NT release was Windows NT 3.1, to match the then-current 16-bit and consumer-focused Windows 3.1 version number. As with Word, that's not so much a competition with outside products as it is a matter of keeping up with the version numbers of similar products from elsewhere in the company.

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There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...

Product Differentiation Needed by Grindalf · 2014-09-30 06:36 · Score: 3, Insightful

Can we not just have a large tower PC based OS, that works and installs offline via DISKS and that has swappable / maintainable cards and devices. A machine that's another order of power in comparison with the previous year in terms of processor, 3D etc. I'm sick of the sight of "cheaped off" slow thin breakable devices that are nearly impossible to use for professional work, and even harder to open and maintain. Keep the smudge screen toys separate, we're not fooled any more, they're rubbish! How about a second operating system for tablet devices called “Windows Bomb Boy Chintz.” That way the kids would know that there's a better life out there, filled with jobs, large screen entertainment and games that work.

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Re:OMFG, stupid by jamiesan · 2014-09-30 06:37 · Score: 5, Funny

And if they create a Developer Edition, They can call it Windows Developer Edition X..... WinDEX!

Re:OMFG, stupid by Frnknstn · 2014-09-30 06:38 · Score: 1

I didn't know Teslas had tanks? What do they store in them?

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If it's in you sig, it's in your post.

Kinda' like Android smoothness by Imazalil · 2014-09-30 06:40 · Score: 1

I think this will be like Google touting Android's smoothness for few straight releases, telling us each time it's finally really smooth. :-)

Be prepared to see "new and improved unified experience" for at lest another couple versions.

Re:OMFG, stupid by blueg3 · 2014-09-30 06:40 · Score: 2

Chemical potential energy.

Windows 10 = iPhone 6 by xeno · 2014-09-30 06:45 · Score: 2

Wait... what? Multiple desktops, same apps behave properly as fullscreen tablet apps or desktop windows, snapping control, hybrid menus, launch/switch/end gestures (copied from WebOS and Unity), a task view with app and desktop preview... Every single one of these features has been out for years on Linux (and most on Android or OS X), in much more polished form. It's 2014 and the Windows team is just now figuring out how to have two window managers co-exist? How very retro!

Windows 10 vs. Linux Mint/Ubuntu/Fedora/etc = iPhone 6 vs. Samsung Galaxy/Note series...
The dominant/big-name brand is _years_ behind and floating forward on market momentum.

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I think not...(*poof*)

Re:Windows 10 = iPhone 6 by dbIII · 2014-09-30 17:44 · Score: 1

Reminds me of how the ads should have run:
"Windows, because copying Apple was my idea."

With a combination of window snapshots, multiple desktops and RDP that does not entirely suck it appears MS is close to catching up with the Enlightenment window manager on X from a year or two before Slashdot started. Or Xerox "rooms" from way back.
Re:Windows 10 = iPhone 6 by fanatic · 2014-10-02 07:45 · Score: 1

With ... RDP that does not entirely suck it appears MS is close to catching up with the Enlightenment window manager on X...
Actually, RDP is one of the things I must concede (as much as I hate it) where MS is ahead. Straight X over a WAN with any latency really sucks. (Caveat: I haven't tried xrdp yet.)

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Re:Windows 10 = iPhone 6 by dbIII · 2014-10-02 11:56 · Score: 1

I'm discussing the combination of features, but yes, RDP, xrdp, NX and VNC are pretty much equivalent over congested links because they have the same underlying idea - screenscrape one way, input events the other and send as little as possible. Anything other than entire desktops is rare though which sucks and improving networks make the difference with X less noticable.

Re:OMFG, stupid by SJHillman · 2014-09-30 06:46 · Score: 2

If your Tesla has a gas tank, you might be doing it wrong...

Sigh.... by plazman30 · 2014-09-30 06:46 · Score: 1

There should be ONE way to launch your apps. Either a start menu or tiles. In my opinion, what you need is ONE app with 2 UIss. If you're on a desktop, then show me the desktop UI. If you're on a touch device, show me the touch UI.

Re:Sigh.... by ledow · 2014-09-30 06:58 · Score: 1

Fuck that, even.
Just give me a damn option. Who cares what silly nonsense the latest fad is to launch programs (and, sorry, Windows 8 Tiles = Windows 95 Active Desktop in all but name)? Just give me the option - if it's really THAT good, I'll switch to it. If not, I've lost nothing.
And the development time is literally in the "freeware utility" range so don't give me shit about how long it takes MS to manage two shell paradigms.
I've deployed Windows 8 - but wouldn't do it without Classic Shell and specifically its GPO settings. When I constantly ask myself WHY that's not part of Windows any more, it makes me question what I'm expecting from Windows in the future.
P.S. Microsoft - make it a fucking single setting in GPO to push Desktop Backgrounds, Logon Screens, Lock Screens, Colour Themes etc. to clients (and put AD pictures into Windows 8 User Icons on logon). While you're there, make it a free feature to put a corporate signature in Exchange without poncing about with transport rules and copying files down to clients. 20 years and we still don't have the SIMPLEST of things done right.
Re:Sigh.... by shutdown+-p+now · 2014-09-30 12:17 · Score: 1

Tiles in the desktop case are not so much for launching as for widget-like functionality - presenting data at a glance. If you don't need them, you can just remove them all and end up with a clean Start menu that just has the app list.

Major version material? by mand1nga · 2014-09-30 06:46 · Score: 1

Is it me or all these little features could be just added to W8 ?

Re:OMFG, stupid by LessThanObvious · 2014-09-30 06:46 · Score: 3, Funny

Warm nacho cheese.

Re:Microsoft skips 'too good' Windows 9, jumps to by Bogtha · 2014-09-30 06:47 · Score: 3, Funny

Fuck everything, we're doing Windows 10.

Would someone tell me how this happened? We were the fucking vanguard of operating systems in this country. Windows XP was the operating system to run. Then Apple came out with OS X. Were we scared? Hell, no. Because we hit back with a little thing called Windows Vista. That's Aero UI and a sidebar. For widgets. But you know what happened next? Shut up, I'm telling you what happened - the bastards went to mobile. Now we're standing around with our cocks in our hands, selling a desktop operating system with a sidebar. Aero or no, suddenly we're the chumps. Well, fuck it. We're going to Windows 10.

Sure, we could go to Windows 9 next, like the competition. That seems like the logical thing to do. After all, 8 worked out pretty well, and 9 is the next number after 8. So let's play it safe. Let's make a better UI and call it the Start Screen. Why innovate when we can follow? Oh, I know why: Because we're a business, that's why!

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Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha

In response, Mac will come out with OS 11 by rolfwind · 2014-09-30 06:47 · Score: 1

And MS will still be behind.

MS OS X ? by daniel23 · 2014-09-30 06:49 · Score: 2

win10? If they had humour the'd call it windows Ah

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605413? Yes, it's a prime.

this must be stopped. by nimbius · 2014-09-30 06:49 · Score: 5, Funny

Gentlemen I'm from the future, a microsoft you do not yet know, and I bring dire warnings. here in this foul year of 2054 where we've reached windows 456,776 elite premium solar helium wombat version, the releases never end.. The upcoming version is just a box with a nine volt battery and a stack of old playing cards but we cannot stop. newer products are being released every millisecond without so much as a tertiary consideration for what, if anything, users still want from us. The leaks are also getting worse, with version 914,135 electric pickle teleportation premium recently being leaked from the year 2089 by a screaming, sweating man in a time-suit known only as ball-mar. The latest version of Microsoft Windows RT CBBQ pro pony mobile implant indigestion premium was also mistakenly leaked to a confused Thomas Jefferson during a continental congress meeting of the Land Ordinance of 1784. this was approved by the Microsoft board of directors in the year 2153, despite the computer not even existing, with a standing ovation.

help us. Even now windows 11-14 are being released. First to feral cats off a european costal city, next to an air conditioner in tempe arizona, and finally to a street light in a dennys parking lot. Windows 28 will simultaneously require, and forbid, the use of a touchscreen to gain functionality to a windows "start" button (later this will be renamed the Gorloc device, in honor of Gorlok the malevolent for a future release predicted by the corporate runemaster during the coming interplanetary ork battle.) I beg you, stop the madness.

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Good people go to bed earlier.

Re:this must be stopped. by sootman · 2014-09-30 08:49 · Score: 1

> Windows 28 will simultaneously require, and forbid, the use of a touchscreen
You owe me one (1) new keyboard and one (1) new monitor.

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Re:screw the windows interface team by Opportunist · 2014-09-30 06:51 · Score: 1

No, they're actually doing what they have to do. There is no serious competition in the business market, but there is MacOS in the consumer market. Why would MS care that you can't do your work as long as they have something to compete with "ohhh shiny!"

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Re:OMFG, stupid by X10 · 2014-09-30 06:52 · Score: 1

Windows One - oh!

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Re:OMFG, stupid by WillAffleckUW · 2014-09-30 06:52 · Score: 1

I didn't know Teslas had tanks? What do they store in them?

Bits and bytes.

They have a lot of potential energy.

It's called physics.

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Why is Vista afraid of Windows 7? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 06:53 · Score: 1

Because 7 ate 9!

/me runs away.

Re:Unified Experience Across Devices Win10 by WillAffleckUW · 2014-09-30 06:53 · Score: 1

The thing is, Windows 9 crashed and burned.

The film was destroyed, of course.

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-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --

Move on, nothing to see here! by DanielOom · 2014-09-30 06:54 · Score: 1

Ten will have a start button. How will it be different from Vista or XP?

Re:Move on, nothing to see here! by Sepodati · 2014-09-30 10:06 · Score: 1

Why does it have to be different? Win8 was different, and MS got torn to hell for it. This is exactly what everyone wanted, isn't it? You get a start menu that doesn't take over the entire screen, applications in windows, a definitive switch to tablet vs. desktop mode. Win8 was supposed to be this unifying experience, but it weighed far to heavily on the touch/table experience rather than unifying. This looks like a great solution, in my opinion, but then I don't really have a problem with Win8... well, Win8.1, specifically.
Re:Move on, nothing to see here! by ConceptJunkie · 2014-09-30 12:26 · Score: 1

Ten will have a start button. How will it be different from Vista or XP?
It will be uglier, for one thing. You can count on that.

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Re:Move on, nothing to see here! by ILongForDarkness · 2014-09-30 12:31 · Score: 1

I agree. They seemed to handle the "dockable" tablet market pretty well. I think this is the way the market is going. Laptops somewhat killed the desktops, tablets are killing the laptop because people don't want to lug an extra couple pounds, want 10 hr battery life etc. Soon the average user will realize: hey all I want is a mouse, a bigger screen and a keyboard at home not the whole box: win 10 seems like it will handle that pretty well.

Yes multiple desktops! by Kludge · 2014-09-30 06:55 · Score: 4, Funny

Windows has caught up with fvwm. 1.

Re:Yes multiple desktops! by JoeMerchant · 2014-09-30 07:55 · Score: 2

Windows 3.1 had accessory tools (I think I used one called "Dashboard") that did multiple desktops - what's that, like 23 years ago?
Re:Yes multiple desktops! by mungtor · 2014-09-30 07:59 · Score: 1

Yes, right at the time that LCDs for extra physical displays are so cheap that it's completely irrelevant. Awesome indeed.
Re:Yes multiple desktops! by Andtalath · 2014-09-30 08:18 · Score: 1

It's been in power tools since XP.
Has been crap all along though.
Re:Yes multiple desktops! by ArcadeMan · 2014-09-30 08:32 · Score: 4, Funny

I had multiple desktops over 30 years ago. One desk had a Commodore 64, another desk had a Color Computer 2, etc.

--
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
Re:Yes multiple desktops! by NJRoadfan · 2014-09-30 09:53 · Score: 3, Informative

Xerox Rooms was one: http://toastytech.com/guis/xrm...

Symantec's Norton Navigator for Windows 95 included a virtual desktop feature as well and it integrated into the taskbar. http://www.danielsays.com/ss-g...

Whats odd is that until recently, only X11 windows managers seemed to have the feature standard. Apple only added the feature a few years ago to OS X, and now Windows finally has it.

Re:Catching up with Fedora by Austerity+Empowers · 2014-09-30 06:55 · Score: 4, Insightful

Doesn't see to have a real shell yet. Bash, csh, tcsh, I don't care. Windows is a gaming OS unless it can put productivity back. Otherwise it's OS X or Linux...

Re:Microsoft skips 'too good' Windows 9, jumps to by neilo_1701D · 2014-09-30 06:57 · Score: 1

Umm... the date of the article was April 1, 2013.

This was a satire piece from 18 months ago. Names made up etc.

Re:OMFG, stupid by homey+of+my+owney · 2014-09-30 06:59 · Score: 1

It needs to go to Eleven [moves dial up to 11].

heh, MS killed Windows 9 before release! by swschrad · 2014-09-30 06:59 · Score: 1

a lesson they should have learned one major release earlier, aren't I right, kids?

--
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?

Dear MS by Opportunist · 2014-09-30 06:59 · Score: 4, Insightful

One size fits all never worked. It doesn't with underwear, it doesn't even with socks. Sorry. Cutting corners here will only mean that your OS will be the WORST choice on ALL products. Because every other product in the market that is fitted to the type of device it is meant to run on will have a better suited interface and give the user a better experience.

One size fits all is nothing but a mediocre compromise, and by definition inferior to any specialized solution.

--
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.

Re:Dear MS by rahvin112 · 2014-09-30 07:50 · Score: 1

Two reasons.
Application lock-in, Microsoft is trying to leverage their existing large application comparability for leverage.
The second is related to the first, in the MS is trying to use there large monopoly in the desktop market to build a monopoly in handheld, tablet and phone.
I believe both will be a failure, they sat on their hands two long while Apple and Google built OS's and now have significant application catalogs. Android and iOS will be very difficult to displace at this point. They'd do better to focus their attention on maintaining and building their enterprise services and continuing to build and support desktop computers. That would probably mean porting office and other major enterprise applications to both the iOS and Android. I simply don't believe they can displace android or iOS at this point.
Re:Dear MS by Barlo_Mung_42 · 2014-09-30 11:52 · Score: 1

Your criticism is two years too late.
This isn't one size fits all. Win8 was one size fits all with the "Everyone gets a start screen" attitude. This is bringing back what made Windows great, user choice. Don't like the start screen? Fine, use the start menu. Not happy with that? Fine customize it till the cows come home. It will work differently on different devices which is exactly what people have been asking for.
Re:Dear MS by shutdown+-p+now · 2014-09-30 12:17 · Score: 1

If you have actually looked at the screenshots, this is a major backtracking from "one size fits all" as exemplified by Win8.
Re:Dear MS by Rich0 · 2014-09-30 23:29 · Score: 1

The problem with this is that unless the new OS uses win32 on all those platforms, they don't have that huge application base they're trying to leverage.
Win8 was the attempt to get everybody to move to Metro, and it failed. Of course, they were stupid to introduce the app store on the desktop since that probably REALLY deterred people from porting over. They should have gotten everybody to port first, and then changed the rules once everybody was on the new cross-platform API.
In any case, I think they'd be doomed anyway. If you're building a Facebook reader it isn't that big of a deal to make a one-size-fits-all UI. If it only has 6 menu options users on the 20" screen won't care so much about the 1" tile buttons. The problem is that nobody has come up with a way to make full productivity applications work on things like phones. You can strip out all the features, and people will tolerate them as viewers or apps for making tweaks, but what serious business says, "you know, we don't need professional tools - we're going to compose the next Hollywood movie using an app designed to add filters to something shot with a phone cam."
Heck, Adobe just announced that they're making Photoshop available over a web browser. I'm still not sure how well that will work (does html5 support graphics tablets?). Even that potential source of failure exposes the real problem here - people doing serious work are hard to box into super-simplified applications. People want their 15 floating windows, and their magic USB tablet that senses pen pressure, angle (2DOF), button pressure, distance, etc.
Re:Dear MS by Opportunist · 2014-10-01 09:25 · Score: 1

There is exactly no synergy effect between desktop and handheld devices. There isn't even the same kind of market between them. Look at the appliances on the desktop, then look at the "same" kind of tools on handhelds. Can you imagine using the same user interface on both? Or wouldn't you rather think that the appliance that uses the UI of one on the other is "doing it wrong"?
For reference, see Windows 8. Or WinCE for the reverse. It just doesn't work right, look right or feel right.
There is also not the same market in any other area, be it games, development (just in case anyone is crazy enough to actually develop software on a cellphone...) or ANY other area. It just doesn't work that way.

--
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Re:Dear MS by Opportunist · 2014-10-01 09:27 · Score: 1

Who is?

--
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.

Re:OMFG, stupid by kad77 · 2014-09-30 07:00 · Score: 2

Perhaps my comment was rude, and 'a bit over the top' as you say. Microsoft's VP of Operating Systems is probably not a moron.

My initial reaction to Belfiore seeming to downgrade a previous version of their flagship product by referring to it as a first gen Prius, and then extending the bad car analogy to try and sell us the new shiny pissed me off.

Comparing a previous version to an niche, ugly, low powered econobox (that is heavily government subsidized) to an electric car, made by an independent company and is decidedly not meant to be mass market cheap, nor aimed at the same demographic... Having the people in charge of these products make these statements gives me the impression the same brain trust that turned Windows 7 into Windows 8 is still running the show.

What car would he have made Windows 8 in that analogy?

Re:Microsoft skips 'too good' Windows 9, jumps to by Ravaldy · 2014-09-30 07:02 · Score: 1

Just a wild guess here:
1. You run Linux
2. You're still in school

Re:Microsoft skips 'too good' Windows 9, jumps to by cptdondo · 2014-09-30 07:04 · Score: 1

Yeah, but it's turning out to be true. Who wudda thunk it?

Microsoft is like Obama by gelfling · 2014-09-30 07:05 · Score: 1

No one actually believes what they say anymore.

Re:OMFG, stupid by Stargoat · 2014-09-30 07:06 · Score: 2

Well no wonder your Tesla blew up....

--
Hoist Number One and Number Six.

blogs.windows.com down by Dracula · 2014-09-30 07:07 · Score: 1

Amusingly, it appears to have been running Wordpress.

Re:Catching up with Fedora by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 07:12 · Score: 5, Insightful

oi excuse me? PowerShell is actually pretty damn awesome. It's very powerful.

Well the pattern fits by UnknowingFool · 2014-09-30 07:15 · Score: 3, Insightful

Given the history of Windows naming, MS likes to change the pattern after two versions:
Windows 3.1
Windows 3.11
. . .
Windows 95
Windows 98
. . .
Windows ME
Windows XP
. . .
Windows Vista
. . .
Windows 7
Windows 8
. . .
Windows 10

--
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.

Re:Well the pattern fits by NormalVisual · 2014-09-30 12:35 · Score: 1

You forgot Windows 3.0, which was the first version that really took off. There was also Windows 1.0, 2.0, Windows/286, and Windows/386, which fit better into your naming pattern.

--
Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
Re:Well the pattern fits by jones_supa · 2014-09-30 18:10 · Score: 1

That's actually quite interesting. Something different to the traditional "good/bad" lists. :)
Re:Well the pattern fits by UnknowingFool · 2014-10-01 05:52 · Score: 1

Notice that you are concerned with actual versions numbers while I am talking about marketing. For MS they're terrible at this sort of thing. MS is the opposite of Apple (and frankly everyone else) in this regard. While Apple had to switch from cats to places for their codenames, they had a legitimate reason (They were running out of cats). However, overall it has always been 10.x "Codename". For MS, it has been Windows "Something" with the something being a version, a date, a codename, acronym, whatever MS is thinking at the time.

--
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.

Re:OMFG, stupid by neoritter · 2014-09-30 07:17 · Score: 1

The Chevy Volt?

Why not... by TomRC · 2014-09-30 07:18 · Score: 2, Interesting

Why not just merge the Start menu and the desktop once and for all, with all the best features of both?
Hold down the Windows key to instantly hide all but the desktop.

Basically like clicking in the lower right corner on Win7, but much faster, while bringing in some of the UI features from Win8.

Get rid of the various "hover/slide in from the edge" Win8 conventions - put those options on the desktop.

Make the task bar default visible only on the Desktop (optionally always visible, of course).
For touch, keep a transparent Start button hovering in the lower left - hold touch on it if you don't have a Windows key/button to show the desktop.
Apps could request true full screen to get rid of the button, of course.

About god damn time.. by william.meaney1 · 2014-09-30 07:22 · Score: 5, Insightful

That i can use CTRL-C and CTRL-V on the command line. Jesus christ...

Re:About god damn time.. by Prien715 · 2014-09-30 10:41 · Score: 2

...which I may add, does not work on Linux. Ctrl+C is break, so most terms use Ctrl+Shift+C. It didn't really become apparent how weird this was before I started using a Mac, where Command+C and Command+V were consistent across both the normal programs and the CLI.

--
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
Re:About god damn time.. by ShaunC · 2014-09-30 13:05 · Score: 1

In the meantime you might look at QuickEdit mode for the command prompt, if you haven't already. I've spent so much time in PuTTY over the years that I've grown accustomed to right-click being paste when I'm in a shell. This also works in cmd if you set it to use QuickEdit mode (having to hit Enter to copy a selection is just plain unintuitive, though).

--
Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
Re:About god damn time.. by WuphonsReach · 2014-10-01 00:33 · Score: 1

Most terms (PuTTY/SecureCRT), it is better to use the traditional Shift+Delete, Shift+Ins and Ctrl+Insert - I've never heard of Ctrl+Shift+C before.

--
Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
Re:About god damn time.. by Prien715 · 2014-10-01 06:08 · Score: 1

Thanks! That's helpful.
GNOME Terminal lists Ctrl+Shift+C in its edit menu (that's how I learned it) -- but the combinations you list work as well and better across different programs.

--
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.

Every other version by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 07:23 · Score: 1

So if they're skipping over 9 and going to 10, does that mean that they've expertly bypassed the version that was supposed to not suck?

Re:Every other version by jones_supa · 2014-09-30 18:14 · Score: 1

Haha, I was thinking the same. Someone at Microsoft was reading one of those lists: "Windows 7 good...Windows 8 bad...Windows 8.1 good...Windows 9...aha! We're skipping that one!"

Re:only in a literal sense by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 07:24 · Score: 1

Obvious is not Obvious to UX designers

List of Things
VS
Abstract Symbols, Boxes and Hidden Search Fields

I work in a UX team and some of the shit people come up with makes me want to push them through a closed window.

Re:OMFG, stupid by sycodon · 2014-09-30 07:35 · Score: 1

I have been eagerly awaiting a one OS fits all devices solution.

I can't wait to load the three DVDs onto my phone and tablet!

--
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.

Re:Catching up with Fedora by benjymouse · 2014-09-30 07:42 · Score: 3, Insightful

Doesn't see to have a real shell yet. Bash, csh, tcsh, I don't care. Windows is a gaming OS unless it can put productivity back. Otherwise it's OS X or Linux...

PowerShell beats anything *sh on consistency, terseness, expressiveness, risk management, integration, remoting, job control, interactive assistance.

And it is not as dangerous :-)

--
Reading slashdot one-liner: (irm http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdot).rdf.item | fl title,desc*

Win7=good, 8=bad, 9=non-existant, 10=bad? by NotDrWho · 2014-09-30 07:43 · Score: 1

I just think someone should have warned this guy that Windows follows the opposite of the Star Trek movie principle, so even releases always suck

--
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.

Re:Win7=good, 8=bad, 9=non-existant, 10=bad? by roc97007 · 2014-09-30 13:45 · Score: 1

I was wondering about that too. It could be that this is their way to break the "even numbered curse". On the other hand, it could be an admission that two releases in a row are a-gonna suck.

--
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Re:Win7=good, 8=bad, 9=non-existant, 10=bad? by CAOgdin · 2014-10-13 05:47 · Score: 1

They jumped over 9, it has been posited, because too many programmers looked for "Windows 9" as a substitute for "Windows 95 | Windows 98" in their code.

I wait with bated breath for Windows 10, to see if Microsoft has learned any lessons from NT, Vista, 7 and 8, which have become progressively 1) worse than their predecessors, 2) made irrelevant change to the GUI that confuse users, 3) didn't listen to customers (or even MVP) negative feedback, and 4) will be incompatible with existing, stable applications.

How about Windows Ne by morgauxo · 2014-09-30 07:47 · Score: 1

How about Windows Ne?

Any chemists out there?

http://alturl.com/tkfwu

Re:How about Windows Ne by kammermusik · 2014-09-30 23:49 · Score: 1

Despite being a nice joke for the subset of people being chemists this sounds too much like ME, and is thus negatively connoted.
Re:How about Windows Ne by morgauxo · 2014-10-01 03:51 · Score: 1

That was the other half of the joke! I wish I could somehow magically convince Microsoft's marketers that Ne is a good idea. It would be like selling the Chevy Nova in Mexico!

It looks a bit verbose, but... by warrax_666 · 2014-09-30 07:47 · Score: 1

when you're right, you're right. ... but you have to wonder if we really shouldn't embrace the whole DevOps thing and just program our "scripts" in a real language such as Python. (Or Perl for that matter, I just happen to like the "subprocess" Python package for extremely simple unix-like automation.)

--
HAND.

Re:Windows 1010? by __aaclcg7560 · 2014-09-30 07:49 · Score: 1

The eight-bit retro look is coming back in style these days. New name should be Windows Minecraft.

Re:On the bright side by theskipper · 2014-09-30 07:49 · Score: 2

The "Post Anonymously" checkbox is right above where you type the comment subject.

Re:Catching up with Fedora by purpledinoz · 2014-09-30 07:55 · Score: 1

I hate that uncaptured function call return values get automatically appended to your function's return values... WTF

Re:OMFG, stupid by JoeMerchant · 2014-09-30 07:57 · Score: 1

Actually, they forgot the decimal point.

Re:OMFG, stupid by Moof123 · 2014-09-30 07:58 · Score: 5, Funny

Or they could adopt the new place names like Yosemite. Being a Washington state company they should do Windows Mount St. Helens.

Windows 10 by apcullen · 2014-09-30 08:02 · Score: 5, Funny

It's actually just a re-do of Windows 8, but they wrote it in octal.

Re:OMFG, stupid by rogoshen1 · 2014-09-30 08:09 · Score: 1

then it's called a volt?

Re: Catching up with Fedora by loufoque · 2014-09-30 08:11 · Score: 1

Try clink. It makes the shell slightly less bad.

Windows 10 in 2016 by dean.cubed9947 · 2014-09-30 08:11 · Score: 1

Windows 10 in 2016, so that the following year they can release Windows '18. That should make Windows 8 look like Windows -3!

Re:If the new Windows is so good... by srmalloy · 2014-09-30 08:14 · Score: 1

Then why are they playing a video of what it will do instead of actually demonstrating the product?

"Any advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo."
-- James Klass

Video wallpaper by Lanterns · 2014-09-30 08:16 · Score: 1

Okay, okay, I'll admit it, I like the pretty pictures on Bing, especially those hypnotic repeating images. Is it too much to ask for video wallpaper so I can minimize and watch the ocean waves roll in?

Re:OMFG, stupid by KingMotley · 2014-09-30 08:18 · Score: 1

New name changes.

Windows 9 (Home, Home Premium, Pro, etc) -> Windows 10 (Home, Home Premium, Pro, etc)
Windows 9N (No media player) -> Windows ID-10-T
Windows 9E (European version with no IE) -> Windows ID-10-T2

windows.com site slashdotted by sarguin · 2014-09-30 08:24 · Score: 1

"Error establishing a database connection" (probably a MS-SQLServer database) ;)

Re:OMFG, stupid by Dupple · 2014-09-30 08:25 · Score: 1

Look at it from the bright side, at least it wasn't called Windows One.

One Zero.

That's what it is

--
Watch those corners

hidden fields by globaljustin · 2014-09-30 08:27 · Score: 1

ha!

i love the new trend: a little square with 3 horizontal lines that lets you see an actual menu

it's so cross-platform!

i feel bad for you in a sense, being on a UX team as you describe...however, at least you (probably) get good work. I am a freelance designer and sometimes I feel I would trade the freedom I have to just do a good job and make a functional yet artistic design in order to have more consistency

it's always a trade-off

what if you started a culture of criticizing bad UX you see? like...idk...make a meme and post it around the office that demonstrates your idea...something to get a conversation started but won't seem like you criticizing other team member's work?

--
Thank you Dave Raggett

Re:hidden fields by Hes+Nikke · 2014-09-30 13:50 · Score: 1

i love the new trend: a little square with 3 horizontal lines that lets you see an actual menu
I prefer the term Hamburger Button.

--
Don't call me back. Give me a call back. Bye. So yeah. But bye our, well, but alright we are on a shirt this chill.
Re:hidden fields by globaljustin · 2014-09-30 20:14 · Score: 1

Hamburger Button.
lol

--
Thank you Dave Raggett

2015 by fulldecent · 2014-09-30 08:28 · Score: 1

2015 will be the year of Windows on the desktop... finally!

--

-- I was raised on the command line, bitch

" Windows 10 will offer a tailored experience... by Radical+Moderate · 2014-09-30 08:35 · Score: 1

... for all hardware across a single platform family.", from TFA.

Sounds like a great idea, if implemented properly. My confidence in MS' ability to implement properly is not high.

--
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.

Windows 11, codename: Tufnel by Radical+Moderate · 2014-09-30 08:37 · Score: 1

We can only hope.

--
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.

Re:OMFG, stupid by plopez · 2014-09-30 08:55 · Score: 1

Everyone knows it's Windows two....

--
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+

Re:Catching up with Fedora by Austerity+Empowers · 2014-09-30 09:04 · Score: 5, Insightful

Except it's not *sh, all my sh* is in *sh, and all my sh* runs on Linux's *sh and OS X's *sh. I'm not interested in being tied to anyone's platform, not in my shell, not in my language (No C#, .NET Obj-C, Swift, other bullshit).

Without *sh the OS is useless to me.

Re:Catching up with Fedora by DocHoncho · 2014-09-30 09:08 · Score: 4, Interesting

Terseness??
PS C:\> Get-ChildItem

[INSERT LONG ASS LIST OF FILES HERE IN SIMILAR FORMAT TO ls -l THAT SLASHDOT REFUSES TO LET ME POST]

PS C:\> Set-Location dev PS C:\dev> Get-Content _vimrc .....

How one might obtain a directory listing in a concise format is beyond me.
Sure, those stupid commands are aliased to ls and cd, but the "real" versions are indicative of how all the commands are named. Names only a Java dev could love. Invoke-some-random-command-with-a-very-long-name-for-no-reason. LOL.

My personal favorite, however, is command invocation:
PS C:\> 7z.exe Bad numeric constant: 7. (What??)

PS C:\> '7z.exe' 7z.exe (Uh...)

PS C:\> & '.\7z.exe' (WTF?)

7-Zip 9.20 Copyright (c) 1999-2010 Igor Pavlov 2010-11-18
Every command drags you further and further down into the soul crushing hell that is COM, or whatever the current framework du jour is this year. I suppose it must be useful for something, but I think I'll stick with GnuWin32 and the powershell's idiot cousin, cmd.exe when I absolutely must work on a windows box.

Terseness. Hah. I'm sure the poor sons of bitches stuck administering a bunch of crufty Windows boxes get some millage out of it, but I'll be damned if I'd use it for day to day CLI work.

--
Celebrity worship is a poor substitute for Deity worship and costs more to boot.

Re:OMFG, stupid by geekoid · 2014-09-30 09:24 · Score: 1

"What car would he have made Windows 8 in that analogy?"
I don't know, whats a really solid car the runs really well look innovative but people hate it because they hate change?

--
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Re:Catching up with Fedora by geekoid · 2014-09-30 09:25 · Score: 1

So how many computers are fucked becasue of Bash?
I don't see a powershell hack making people do emergency patches.

--
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Re:Catching up with Fedora by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 09:31 · Score: 1

All you have shown us is that you don't understand it.
Also, that you're too full of yourself to think that maybe it's you that doesn't know something.

Re:OMFG, stupid by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 09:39 · Score: 1

Windows Mount St. Helens.

get ready for the pyroclastic flow of ones and zeros laying waste to every computer it touches

Re:Catching up with Fedora by Parker+Lewis · 2014-09-30 09:43 · Score: 1

Can I run a "ls" on it? :P

Windows has become irrelevant by cjonslashdot · 2014-09-30 09:43 · Score: 2

They should just liquidate the company and give the money back to the shareholders. ;-) Oh wait, Michael Dell said that about Apple.

Re:Catching up with Fedora by DocHoncho · 2014-09-30 09:52 · Score: 2

No, I don't understand it. And I don't really feel as though I want to, since I'm only working in a Windows environment because I'm too lazy to switch back and forth between a Linux one for work and Windows for games. I do web development, and it will be a cold day in hell before I touch any part of the MS web stack, so I spend most of my time remoted into one Linux box or another. Cygwin fills in the gaps. .Net? Hmmph, more like .Meh

--
Celebrity worship is a poor substitute for Deity worship and costs more to boot.

Meanwhile back in 2013 ... by hvidstue · 2014-09-30 09:57 · Score: 1

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2613504/microsoft-windows/microsoft-skips--too-good--windows-9--jumps-to-windows-10.html

From the article:

Apr 1, 2013
[This is an April Fool's story. It is fiction, not fact even though it contains facts. --Ed.]
If you've been looking forward to Windows 9, the OS that will fix what Windows 8 got wrong, you're in for a surprise: There will be no Windows 9. Instead, Microsoft announced it will proceed directly to Windows 10.

It seems that joke wasn't so far fetched yet ;-)

Re:OMFG, stupid by philofaqs · 2014-09-30 10:18 · Score: 1

and how long would it be before someone called it wanx to much hilarity amongst pre teens and internet nerds ....

They have a clever strategy. by Insomnium · 2014-09-30 10:30 · Score: 1

They want to remake the naming scheme. This one will be called "Windows X" (because it's cool). Next one will promise to be different and they will call it "Windows Y" (because changing things for no reason might work). And the version after that will be the ultimate version. "The Windows Y can't we make a decent OS".

Re:They have a clever strategy. by Teresita · 2014-09-30 14:53 · Score: 1

You can get an ISO for a stripped down "Vista Lite" on TPB, so I imagine someone will offer Windows 10 without the bloat and call it Windows 9.

Re:Catching up with Fedora by adonoman · 2014-09-30 10:46 · Score: 2

Yes, you can. Except instead of getting back text, which you then have to parse if you want to do anything with, you get back a stream of .NET objects which will be formatted into a text table if you do nothing with them, but also let you do things like this:

ls | where { $_.Length -gt 5000 }

Re:Catching up with Fedora by adonoman · 2014-09-30 10:49 · Score: 1

It helps that by default it won't run any script files. Once you enable that, it still won't run any remote code unless you enable that. And even then you can restrict it to only run signed code.

Its own worst enemy by RightwingNutjob · 2014-09-30 10:51 · Score: 1

Microsoft's OS division must really have it in for those bastards at Microsoft's OS division. I don't think any serious software company out there competes with itself as badly as microsoft does.

Re:OMFG, stupid by tysonedwards · 2014-09-30 11:14 · Score: 2

Nissan Cube? Loved by a vocal minority, outside that group considered exceptionally stupid looking, boxy, and difficult to operate, and discontinued for 2015 citing poor sales?

--
Thirty four characters live here.

Re:OMFG, stupid by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 11:35 · Score: 1

Yea, because gasoline cars never catch on fire.

Prius still runs on gasoline, in case you forgot.

Re:Catching up with Fedora by davydagger · 2014-09-30 11:42 · Score: 1

why is that. Other than "I said so", or "open sores sux"

So no 7, 8, 9... by TemporalBeing · 2014-09-30 11:42 · Score: 1

...as one G+ commentator put it, the old joke of "why is 6 afraid of 7? B/c 7 ate 9" won't be had for Windows. It'll probably still be true though that Win7 will fair better than Windows 10.

--
Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)

Re:Catching up with Fedora by davydagger · 2014-09-30 11:47 · Score: 1

exploits come and go. This is one giant exploit in this entire 20 something year history of bash

I came here to say just that by OneAhead · 2014-09-30 12:07 · Score: 1

It would be a tribute to the much-beloved X Windows, which was obviously their inspiration for introducing workspaces aka. virtual desktops.(*)

(*) Yeah, yeah, I know that this is a feature that is implemented in (most FOSS) window managers, and that X has nothing to do with it. The joke works better like this, OK? O yeah, and the part about X Windows being beloved was sarcasm.

Re:Catching up with Fedora by shutdown+-p+now · 2014-09-30 12:10 · Score: 4, Informative

Yes, terseness. Have you heard of this fancy thing called "aliases"? Powershell has quite a few out of the box. For example, "Get-ChildItem" is aliased to... "ls". And "Set-Location" is aliased to "cd". And "Get-Helped" is aliased to "man". And aliases work everywhere, so "man ls" works exactly as you'd expect it to.

On the other hand, when you have no clue of what a particular command might be to do something that you need done, your chances of guessing it in PSh are much higher, because the canonical names are descriptive rather than terse.

Re:OMFG, stupid by tehlinux · 2014-09-30 12:20 · Score: 1

They were in San Francisco.

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Most linux users don't know this, but the man pages were named after Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris fsck'ing hates noobs!

Re:Dread/Weariness vs. Anticipation by tehlinux · 2014-09-30 12:29 · Score: 1

TBF, they did acknowledge that the main concern they were hearing from enterprise customers was in training their users, so it's pretty safe to assume they'll make the learning curve as gentle as possible.

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Most linux users don't know this, but the man pages were named after Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris fsck'ing hates noobs!

Consitantly inconsistent name/numbering by RichMan · 2014-09-30 12:41 · Score: 1

So has Microsoft stuck with a naming convention for more than 2 releases?

Looking at the program loader days --
Windows 1.0
Windows 2.0
Windows 3.x
Windows 95
Windows 98
Windows ME
- not really. 1.0,2.0 3..... was close

Now the real OS lineup -
Windows NT 3.1
Windows NT 3.5
Windows NT 3.51
Windows NT 4.0
Windows 2000
Windows XP (full details)
Windows Server 2003
Windows Vista (full details)
Windows Server 2008
Windows 7 (full details)
Windows Server 2008 R2
Windows 8 (full details)
Windows Server 2012

I would give them points for server 2003,2008,2012 if they were not spinning Vista and 7,8 at the same time.

Going to have to say they were doing ok with the NT numbering, but we know NT was not done by real Microsoft People, when the Real Microsoft (tm) got ahold of it, it became WindowsXP.

Re:Consitantly inconsistent name/numbering by Teresita · 2014-09-30 14:50 · Score: 1

Just because Windows 95 and up used MS-DOS as a loader doesn't mean they weren't real OS's, and even when I run Windows for Warehouses 3.11 and launch something like Wordstar in a DOS box it doesn't strike me like Windows itself just another DOS shell...

Skipping version 9 and going straight to ten by Gumbercules!! · 2014-09-30 13:15 · Score: 1

I assume they saw how well skipping version numbers and going straight to ten worked out for Blackberry and wanted in on that action!

Re:Catching up with Fedora by Slamtilt · 2014-09-30 13:24 · Score: 1

It's true that it's less dangerous. When you do fuck up, it won't touch the stuff in somewhat-nested directories because the path is too long. So you'll have SOMETHING left.

Re:OMFG, stupid by penguinoid · 2014-09-30 13:36 · Score: 1

I'm confused... does this mean I have to wait for Windows 11? Actually, never mind -- I don't mind waiting.

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Re:Catching up with Fedora by steelfood · 2014-09-30 13:39 · Score: 2

The difference between powershell and *sh (besides the obvious many-small-binaries unix philosophy vs the one-giant-blob windows philosophy) is that *sh is both a CLI and a scripting language. Powershell is useful just as a scripting language. Sure you could use powershell as the CLI, but it does seriously suck.

Granted with bash illustrating the problems of a dual-use CLI and shell, separating the two might not be such a bad idea, but it's so much easier transitioning from shell one-liners to full shell scripting than the same from dos commands to powershell scripting. But posix enables this, not any particular unix shell in and of itself.

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Re: OMFG, stupid by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 13:42 · Score: 1

Wind-x is a telnet client commonly used to run dos programs from ancient times for inventory management, billing, etc.

Microsoft would get their trademark infringing asses handed to them by either a glass cleaner or a dying computer sector.

Re:OMFG, stupid by roc97007 · 2014-09-30 13:55 · Score: 1

Yep, I think that nailed it.

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Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.

Re:OMFG, stupid by epyT-R · 2014-09-30 14:05 · Score: 1

There are far fewer teslas on the road.

Re:OMFG, stupid by Ol+Biscuitbarrel · 2014-09-30 14:08 · Score: 1

I suggest "Windows: Nemesis."

Re:Wow by exomondo · 2014-09-30 14:59 · Score: 2

Because they don't actually hate Microsoft, it's just something to complain about. If they really hated Microsoft they simply wouldn't use it and would instead advance desktop Linux operating systems. But look at the hundreds of comments any story about Microsoft gets (and just look, most of them are about the marketing of name of it) and then when there is a new Linux kernel version you see a dozen or so comments at best, very few people here care about technical details or being clever anymore, it's just trolls, flamebait and irrelevance.

This site used to be about technical details and hacks to make things work differently, now it's about complaining that the out-of-the-box experience isn't palatable to whichever audience it isn't palatable to (if it's too user-friendly then it's too power-user hostile and vice versa). Nevermind that the obvious solution to any geek or hacker for the Windows 8 Metro thing is to replace the shell with something like LiteStep or install Classic Shell and boot-to-desktop, if the out-of-the-box experience isn't what they want then they'll buy it anyway and complain about it rather than taking the initiative to make it work how they want.

Re:Fuck the start menu. by exomondo · 2014-09-30 15:03 · Score: 1

Turn off SecureBoot then. When did the intelligence level of the slashdot audience drop to a point at which changing a BIOS setting ended up in the "too hard" basket? You can also still partition your hard drive and install the OSes side-by-side.

Re: World's Best Malware by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 15:03 · Score: 1

I'm surprised it didn't start talking about my clean PC

Re:Catching up with Fedora by morkk · 2014-09-30 15:06 · Score: 1

You're excused. To someone brought up on 'cmd' PS is probably indistinguishable from magic.
Oh, and congrats, Mickeysoft, on finally figuring how to do wrap-around text selection. Welcome to the 20th century.

Re:screw the windows interface team by exomondo · 2014-09-30 15:07 · Score: 1

Seriously how is this impeding you from doing your work? Like a genuine example rather than a contrived, intentionally obtuse one. None of my applications work any differently on Windows 8 than they did in Windows 7. If you can't manage without the start menu then obviously OS X (not having a start menu) is not competition they would need to worry about.

Clearly MS has been learning from past mistakes... by dermoth666 · 2014-09-30 15:24 · Score: 1

So they figured they always end up botching every other release, so why not throw away Windows 9 before development even started and go straight to Windows 10?

Re:Catching up with Fedora by strikethree · 2014-09-30 16:51 · Score: 1

PowerShell beats anything *sh on consistency, terseness, expressiveness, risk management, integration, remoting, job control, interactive assistance.

Excuse you? Will that be an underscore _ or a hyphen - or nothing at all separating your multi-word commands and arguments? Consistently confusing is more like it.

Get-Help about_Signing
help set-executionpolicy

I could go on...

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"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen

Version Number Likeness by hound3000 · 2014-09-30 16:59 · Score: 1

Winamp took v2 and v3, added them together, went to v5.

In the original browser wars, Netscape was commonly pitted against the like major version number of Internet Explorer. Nowadays Firefox has adopted the fast-track approach of version numbering from Google Chrome.

With Windows 10, Microsoft is matching MacOS X, and it will create discussion of which is better as it always does when it releases. Then Microsoft will push quickly to Windows 11, and not plod around with 10.1, 10.2, 10.3. In three years time, look to see Mac OS start pushing it numbers faster in response. Both are positing a push away from the 'old desktop mentality.' The name has been a marketing ploy since Windows 95, why should we expect any difference now?

The version I'm usually the most interested in seeing is the one listed as the NT Kernel number displayed in the command prompt. //Even Linux had 3.11 for Workgroups.

Re:Catching up with Fedora by dbIII · 2014-09-30 17:00 · Score: 1

Powershell is useful just as a scripting language.

I don't get the point of it when python and a pile of other mature scripting languages work on MS Windows.

Re:Microsoft skips 'too good' Windows 9, jumps to by z0idberg · 2014-09-30 17:12 · Score: 1

I highly doubt Tim Cook is posting on here as "Rivaldy".

Not a stable version from MS though by dbIII · 2014-09-30 17:22 · Score: 1

There was a Matrox virtual desktop thing from years back that was decent too, and I've seen an Nvidia one. However saying "that feature has been in windows" is like saying photoshop has been in windows :)
There was a "powertoy" but it wasn't able to run reliably as the MS Windows environment changed - a 100% chance of bluescreen per day.

Re:Catching up with Fedora by Dahan · 2014-09-30 17:23 · Score: 1

Which is pretty cool for scripting; I write pretty much all of my Windows scripts in PowerShell these days, instead of .bat or .vbs. But PS isn't good for interactive use... While filtering for large files isn't something that I do often, I do like to sort ls output by date, or by file size. This is quick and easy to do with Unix-style ls:

ls -lt or ls -lS

But with PowerShell?

ls | sort -property LastWriteTime or ls | sort -property Length

Not something quick and easy to type. Which is too bad--I was hoping for an interactive shell a bit more modern than CMD.

Still have a boxed copy of Windows 2.0 by astro · 2014-09-30 17:48 · Score: 1

Before Windows 3.1, most computers with a GUI that I used were running CDE. Mostly Sun workstations, but also a few Alpha and AIX boxes. And one SGI running IRIX. My first home computer with a GUI was Slackware Linux with FVWM. Unless you count the GEM desktop on a C64.

Windows WFW 3.11 - was pretty ok. First version of Windows I used daily. There were lots of useful, or perhaps too many necessary, hacks in the early days of the internet.

Windows 95 was, in my opinion, pretty cool, and obviously was a real game-changer in terms of UI.

Windows ME was a horrible aberration. Garbage. I only experienced it on friends-and-family computers I would get summoned to "repair". Usually pre-installed by HP on the horrible boxes they were selling at the time. Note: HP did, in my mind, redeem themselves years later and resume making real computers.

I worked with Windows NT 3.51 and 4 a bit at various workplaces, but for server OS, almost everything was already Linux even at that time (1999-2002 time frame).

Windows 2000 was fantastic. Rock-solid. I never ran XP at home, just stuck with 2000 because there was no compelling reason to "upgrade". For a home and small business OS, I really think MS nailed it with 2000.

Windows Vista took more of a beating than it deserved. I ran it at home for a couple of years and had no real complaints other than the UI was pretty ugly a lot of the time.

Windows 7 was and still is fantastic. I love it. My computer does exactly everything I need it to do, and is crazy stable. Less crashes than even with 2000, which almost never crashed ever, anyway. I really do love Windows 7. Currently in my house we have Macs running Mavericks, my Win 7 box, and I boot to Manjaro Linux on occasion to get some work done that I just don't find practical under Windows because I never learned Powershell.

I tried Windows 8.0 for a while and was absolutely shocked at what a disaster it was. Just unbelievable. I never tried 8.1, which I understand fixed things considerably, but as I said, I love Win 7 and like with the 2000 -> XP shift, see no compelling reason to upgrade.

I am honestly intrigued by Windows 10 and will give it a spin when the preview is actually available, so perhaps even later today.

(Can't believe I am bothering to post this)

Re:Still have a boxed copy of Windows 2.0 by astro · 2014-09-30 17:53 · Score: 1

I actually have always felt I kinda missed out in that I never used OS/2 - a friend of mine at the time had a box running Warp; I think I clicked on it maybe three times, ever.
Re:Still have a boxed copy of Windows 2.0 by astro · 2014-09-30 18:02 · Score: 1

BTW, I created my /. account in 1996 in Mosaic on a DEC Alpha also running Slackware Linux.
Re:Still have a boxed copy of Windows 2.0 by WuphonsReach · 2014-10-01 00:39 · Score: 1

OS/2 Warp was pretty good for the time (93-96 era). I ran OS/2 2.x and 3.x for a long while as my main operating system. But application selection was really limited, and running 16-bit Windows programs only got you so far.

Not having to reboot for weeks at a time was a very nice feature. This was back when Win95 could only run for about 40-some hours before crashing due to an overflow in a counter.

But there were no open-source development tools at the time, so in order to write OS/2 applications you had to pony up a few hundred dollars for the compiler, then more money for a GUI framework library, plus more money for documentation. That, I feel, was IBM's biggest mistake - charging for development tools. But then, this was the days when a 28k modem was high-speed and ISDN 128k lines were popular - so not sure how they would have distributed it.

Linux was still a minor blip at the time (I installed an early version of Red Hat in the late 90s).

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Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?

An Exchange aside by dbIII · 2014-09-30 17:51 · Score: 1

While you're there, make it a free feature to put a corporate signature in Exchange without poncing about with transport rules and copying files down to clients. 20 years and we still don't have the SIMPLEST of things done right.

Putting the MS Exchange collection behind a purpose designed MTA (sendmail, exim, cast of thousands) and getting that to add the signature is the easiest way to do it - bonus points if it's used to hold and scan mail for virus or spam before it can put any load on MS Exchange and make the fragile thing fall over.

Video wallpaper from the 90's! by dbIII · 2014-09-30 18:00 · Score: 1

Funny thing is back around 1998, when the students were away I'd run the "atlantis" screensaver as the animated background of my cheap little linux box with all the grunt work being done by a big SGI machine in the next building. Install a version of X11 on your MS box (xwin32 etc) and you can have a video background and party like it's 1999!
I'm sure there's other ways already build into the desktop background changer of win7.

Next one? by hcs_$reboot · 2014-09-30 18:14 · Score: 1

Windows 12, Windows 20, Windows 10S, Windows 10.1 ?

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Re:Catching up with Fedora by shutdown+-p+now · 2014-09-30 18:32 · Score: 3, Informative

Given that all the Unix shells predate PowerShell by at least two decades, and more for most of them, of course they wouldn't alias PS commands.

And no-one said that PS is better because it has aliases. Aliases are there for convenience of people who come to it from other shells (which is why it has other aliases for people coming from cmd.exe - "dir" works same as "ls", for example, and "help" works like "man" etc). What makes it better is something else - the notion of passing structured data in streams, rather than just text (which is then just a subset). For some things where you have to write insane sed/awk scripts in Unix to massage the text output of a command into something that another command wants, the equivalent PS can be three times as short, and orders of magnitude clearer, because it doesn't need to parse text to extract the data - it just reads the property of an object.

When all else fails by Anonymous Coward · 2014-09-30 21:00 · Score: 2, Funny

When the going gets tough at Microsoft, they fall back on their oldest practices.

C:\WINDOWS>copy Apple

Re: Catching up with Fedora by Anonymous Coward · 2014-10-01 00:33 · Score: 1

Rofl

Pretty much the entire Ms server infrastructure since Server 2008 R2 relies on Powershell for management. This includes exchange and SQL server

Re:Windows 1010? by ConceptJunkie · 2014-10-01 01:05 · Score: 1

Well, that's appropriate because Windows 8, with its limited palette and ugly "Flat" UI looks like Windows 2.

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Using open source methods of development now.... by roger_that · 2014-10-01 02:00 · Score: 1

I was surprised to see that they are using the open source method of developing software now, relying on lots of eyeballs to find bugs. They can't call it open source development, so it's an Open Beta, but it looks an awful lot like the open source method to me.

Re:Catching up with Fedora by adonoman · 2014-10-01 02:22 · Score: 1

Since property is the first parameter to sort-object, you can just do:

ls | sort Length/code

Re:Catching up with Fedora by adonoman · 2014-10-01 02:26 · Score: 1

Which is exactly why powershell is great - you never have to parse things. Anytime I have to drop into sed/awk in Linux, it always feels like I'm fighting the system.

Re:Microsoft skips 'too good' Windows 9, jumps to by jonhorvath · 2014-10-01 03:01 · Score: 1

Was that Bill O'Reilly?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Re:Catching up with Fedora by godefroi · 2014-10-01 03:20 · Score: 2

C:\Program Files\7-Zip $ ./7z

What's so complicated about that? Feel free to use the .exe as well if it makes you feel better:

C:\Program Files\7-Zip $ ./7z.exe

If 7z.exe is in your path, no need to give it a directory:

D:\ $ 7z

Also, if you're into terseness, you can use the "gci" alias for Get-ChildItem, or the "dir" alias, or the "ls" alias.

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Re:Catching up with Fedora by benjymouse · 2014-10-01 03:38 · Score: 2

... (besides the obvious many-small-binaries unix philosophy vs the one-giant-blob windows philosophy) is that *sh is both a CLI and a scripting language.

PowerShell is not a one-giant-blob. The commands of PowerShell are all of them defined in a module. The core commands comes from a core module. The shell itself does not need "magic" commands like bash and other *sh shells do (for instance, cd could not have been implemented as a loadable command in bash - because it manipulates the environment that is not accessible from external commands).

Even the ability to navigate a file system hierarchy is loadable. PowerShell itself set up infrastructure for navigating "hierarchies" - and a file system is just one such hierarchy. Other providers/hierarchies are certificate store (think advanced keyring), registry, active directory, IIS server virtual file system, SQL server (navigate tables etc).

... is that *sh is both a CLI and a scripting language. Powershell is useful just as a scripting language.

False. PowerShell has many features aimed squarely at interactive user, and frankly there is no other shell that come close:

* Automatic metadata inference: Tab completion, automatic suggestions, syntax help, (parts of) man pages are derived automatically from the command/function definitions. Number, names and types of parameters are declared for cmdlet parameters. Even declarative validators will be picked up. When you type "man somecommand", PowerShell looks up all that information and generates up-to-date call syntax instructions along with whatever man content has been written. It works for built-in commands and functions, user defined commands/functions and even script files. Script files use a param directive to declare parameter names and types.

* Tab completion *and* automatic suggestions (intellisense - in the ISE), again generated from the metadata. Even works for your own script files without having to write completion definitions.

* Risk management. If you invoke commands with -WhatIf or -Confirm, the command will inform you what it *would have* done and inform you what it is *going to do* and ask for your consent, respectively. This is shell infrastructure and it even works for entire script files and nested scripts (when you invoke a script file with -WhatIf it will execute as if all the command invocations had been invoked with -WhatIf).

* Custom actions for warnings, errors, verbose messages and debug messages. You can pass -WarningAction Inquire (or short form -ea Inquire) to have the shell ask you whether it should continue if a command (or script) writes a warning message.

* Progess indicator and input functions infrastructure that work even across job and machine boundaries.

* Get-Credential cmdlet to *securely* obtain credentials from the user - allowing the user to prove identity by not just password, but by any authentication mechanisms available at the workstation, such as card reader, biometric devices, onetime passwords etc. Passwords are guaranteed to *NEVER* be available in memory in clear text (as opposed to bash/Linux).

* Out-Gridview (with alias ogv) lets you present a collection of objects in a GUI list and have the user pick one or many of them. The picked objects will be passed on on the commandline.

* much more

Sure you could use powershell as the CLI, but it does seriously suck.

I suspect that you have never really tried it. And I'm quite sure that you have never used the ISE - which has a command(console) pane but which also has source-level debugging, snippets, multiple script windows, multiple sessions, remote sessions etc.

Granted with bash illustrating the problems of a dual-use CLI and shell, separating the two might not be such a bad idea, but it's so much easier transitioning from shell one-lin

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Re:Need to see how to get in the Windows Insider P by Sun · 2014-10-01 03:45 · Score: 1

I will help you out. I'm sure it's going to be a huge improvement over Windows 8.

Shachar

Re:Catching up with Fedora by RoLi · 2014-10-01 04:27 · Score: 1

WIndows is just a tool to do a job like anything else

No, Windows is a tool that is incompatible to everything else, that is the point.

Re:Catching up with Fedora by RoLi · 2014-10-01 04:33 · Score: 1

So how many computers are fucked becasue of Bash?

A couple of thousand - which is not a lot given the fact that Linux is used on millions of webservers.

From all the alarmism, let's not forget that only RedHat is remotely vulnerable (all the other major distros use dash instead of bash for /bin/sh) and only when you use a seriously outdated CGI-setup.

Re:Catching up with Fedora by benjymouse · 2014-10-01 04:57 · Score: 1

Terseness??
PS C:\> Get-ChildItem

[INSERT LONG ASS LIST OF FILES HERE IN SIMILAR FORMAT TO ls -l THAT SLASHDOT REFUSES TO LET ME POST]

PS C:\> Set-Location dev PS C:\dev> Get-Content _vimrc .....

How one might obtain a directory listing in a concise format is beyond me.

Ah! That is because in PowerShell, the cmdlets are more true to the Unix principle of doing one thing and do it well: The Get-ChildItem cmdlet is not in the business of formatting output; it's purpose is to find child items. And that is what it does: It finds items and passes them along the pipeline.

If objects "fall off" at the end of the pipeline, they are displayed at the console. PowerShell has a number of built-in formats for displaying various item types. In the case of file system objects (fileinfo and directoryinfo objects) they are formatted very much like what the old dir command did.

But don't let that fool you: It is still objects being passed, and you can format them any way you like.

However, in PowerShell, formatting is the responsibility of a few general formatting commands. Try piping the output of Get-ChildItem through Format-Table, Format-List, Format-Wide. There is even a Format-Custom where you can specify your own formatting.

Format-Table formats the objects in table format, i.e. each item on a separate row, with the properties as columns. You can specify which properties of the objects goes into the columns. You can group and even calculate sums.

Format-List formats items in multiple groups of lines, where each line in is a property name and a value. Again, you can specify which properties goes in the output.

BTW, Get-ChildItem has aliases ls, dir and gci. Format-Table, Format-Wide and Format-List has aliases ft, fw and fl, respectively. So if it is really such a problem that you cannot get the default format of ls, you can do

ls | fw

That is, get the child items of the current directory and format them "wide" - which is spread across multiple columns.

Now, see if you can guess what this one does:

ps | fw

If you guessed it, you are beginning to understand.

Now do a ls | ogv the be blown away.

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No, Marketing by Mr_Wisenheimer · 2014-10-01 05:22 · Score: 1

Engineers have no problem understanding the old code versions. Windows 3.0 was a major upgrade from 2.0 whereas 3.1 was a minor upgrade and 3.11 was pretty much less than even a "service patch".

Consumers found it confusing so most companies got away from it. Microsoft uses the old naming scheme for the NT kernel but uses the consumer naming scheme for the average schmoe.

The actual kernel has only had one major upgrade since Windows 2000, which was Vista (6.0). The purpose is to let Microsoft engineers and other professionals know what version they are using (for instance, Windows 2012 and Windows 8 are both 6.2) and how extensively different the operating system is.

The actual names since the introduction of Windows 2000 are just marketing. This is common in software development, to have an internal version number separate from the marketing name.

Shades of Ubuntu Unity and GNOME and KDE by lsatenstein · 2014-10-01 05:36 · Score: 1

Immitation by Microsoft is the greatest form of flattery. If they would like a good interface for Windows 10, they have three such examples from which to choose. They will be about 2 years behind and when they catch up, they will again be two years behind.

But, if they arrive with a good product, then the Desktop Linux will be history. On the North American continent, Linux Desktop is for the most part, a hobby system.
I write that because the BigBox stores do not sell Linux based systems other than Android, and there is no retail Linux system with long term support.

One cannot provide or discuss codecs and a bunch of software that is permissible if you reside within North America. We have to go offshore to download superb Linux desktop software because of the North American patent laws.

There are countries (eg Russia, et al) who do not allow or recognize software patents. They do recognize copyrights, so the question is, is there much difference between the copyright and the license for the end-user?

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Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada

Re:OMFG, stupid by cthulhu11 · 2014-10-01 05:40 · Score: 1

They already did. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W...

Re:Catching up with Fedora by cthulhu11 · 2014-10-01 05:41 · Score: 1

Oh? I missed the part where support for 95% of the hardware that people try to use was removed.

Re:OMFG, stupid by viperidaenz · 2014-10-01 05:57 · Score: 1

I'm not the one who made the comparison between an electric car and a hybrid.

Re:Catching up with Fedora by badkarmadayaccount · 2014-10-01 07:22 · Score: 1

Cygwin. What's with the love of *sh ? It'd be easier in C FFS.

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I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.

Microsoft's Multi-platform support 2 decades late by Helldesk+Hound · 2014-10-01 07:58 · Score: 1

Specific versions of Linux has been available for multiple platforms for how many decades now? Does Microsoft consider that they're "innovating" by doing this?

Platform unification is great. by Asterisk · 2014-10-01 08:12 · Score: 1

I wonder when Mitsubishi will announce a unified UI for their cars, trucks, locomotives, aircraft, and ships. These are all vehicles, after all, so it only makes sense that they should all be controlled via the exact same frontend.

Re:OMFG, stupid by Optali · 2014-10-01 08:40 · Score: 1

Or take place names of good old Europe such as: Windows Abcecoude (I swear that's a place) or Windows Urk !!!