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Hillary Clinton Used Personal Email At State Dept., Possibly Breaking Rules
HughPickens.com writes: The NY Times reports that Hillary Rodham Clinton exclusively used a personal email account to conduct government business as secretary of state, according to State Department officials. She may have violated federal requirements that officials' correspondence be retained as part of the agency's record. Clinton did not have a government email address during her four-year tenure at the State Department. Her aides took no actions to have her personal emails preserved on department servers at the time, as required by the Federal Records Act. "It is very difficult to conceive of a scenario — short of nuclear winter — where an agency would be justified in allowing its cabinet-level head officer to solely use a private email communications channel for the conduct of government business," said attorney Jason R. Baron. A spokesman for Clinton defended her use of the personal email account and said she has been complying with the "letter and spirit of the rules."
This seems indicative of sense that the rules do not apply to me.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
Did I win?
So exactly what shady deals has she been concocting with her rich chums then? And leaving no email trail?
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
Impeach her! This will not stand!
On the one hand, I'm glad someone as seasoned as her is using modern technology.
As many of you likely know, having segregated emails can be.... , a bit annoying and roadblocking. If I had to guess, she did this as a matter of convenience more than to 'buck the rules'. I've probably done it myself, and I'm just a lowly 'Systems Admin'. Hard to guess what things are like at Sec. of State level.
While I'm sure this did break rules, and I haven't bothered to look at the specifics, I can't imagine the consequence of such an action to be too severe. In fact, I'd argue the media shitstorm that is about to come from this from the political right, will far outweigh any punishment. I can already feel them 'seething' over this. Also have to wonder how they'll spin this if she does indeed run for POTUS.
In short, slight ethics, infosec. violation at Federal Level? Likely. Enough to break out the torches? Haven't they already bit lit for like the past 2 decades???
At most this makes my knee itch a little. But that might also be a mosquito bite.
Can they amp up the drama a little more?
Do you know what will happen to her? Not. A. God. Damn. Thing.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
That pretty much finishes Mme. Clinton for good, for 2016. This is going to be very difficult, even for the lapdog media, to ignore.
The Democrats are in big trouble, in 2016. It's amazing how Democrats have managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. The disorganized Republican party was in the process of almost handing them the presidency in 2016. All they had to do is not screw up. They screwed up.
Clinton is toast. Who else do the Democrats have. Fauxcahontas herself? Oh, I'd really like to see that campaign. Cuomo, in New York, has pretty much hara-kiried himself, last month, getting bogged down in a corruption scandal. So, who else could the Democrats run?
I'm genuinely curious. Can someone explain how Mrs. Clinton could use her personal email for official state business, and NOT break half a dozen laws and rules?
So, what's with the "possibly" stuff?
From the 'liberal' media of CNN, the Washington Post and Huffington post this morning.
Now I'm no fan of the Clintons, but if you don't see a coordination job then you're either a Fox news watcher or a Lotus eater ;)
Ha. HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA.
That's right.
It's the dems that get away with crimes.
So...the Montana Senate Candidate who committed Plagarism...Gone.
Rand Paul?
That NBC dude who lied....6 month suspension....
O'Reilly?
AHAHAHAH :D :D :D :D
IOKIYAR LIVES! It LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVES :D
Secret emails outlining how she rolled Cuban cigars on her inner thigh. Monica ingested Hilary pubes moments before guzzling Bill jizz. De-impeach Bill, pre-impeach Hilary for tobacco fucking Monica.
Rules are for the common folk, not the messiah and his sheep.
Not really. The really one remaining significant difference between the parties is that public shaming is still a career-ender in the Democratic party. There's no post-scandal career phase as an evangelical preacher, Fox news commentator, or both waiting for guys like Anthony Wiener or William J. Jefferson (the freezer cash guy).
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Or in the womb.
Unlike poor Karl Rove who is rotting in jail for doing the very same thing, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy
She must have sent a huge number of e-mails to 1000's of people. Didn't someone notice that the e-mails were from hillary@gmail.com instead of hillary@state.gov?
If I got an email from her dealing with official business, I would have questioned why it wasn't from a "real" e-mail address - as in whitehouse.gov or whatever.
Why didn't anyone say something sooner? Didn't someone suspect her emails the same way I would suspect an e-mail from a Nigerian prince needing help?
There is an ancient concept called "sovereign immunity" which holds that rulers (people making laws) are automatically exempt from those laws. The theory is they would carve exemptions for themselves if it weren't so wordy or otherwise onerous (requiring foresight). To be sure, this self-justifying concept is very attractive! Free-riders include some enforcers of the law (police). Small wonder that Hillary behaves as "rules are for the little people."
However, the concept belongs to fealty and other power politics. It has no place in a democracy, and still less in the US which explicity rejects individual titles and power. Everyone is supposed to be equal before the laws, and have laws enforced uniformly. As it is now, "color of law" is near-immunity from it. We do not have a democracy but elected/appointed dictatorships, fortunately still fragmented.
Since she was using these accounts for government business, the entire contents should be available via FOIA request.
I am sure, after the Snowden revelations, that she felt that using her personal email for conducting official business was the safest and most prudent way to backup her email. It required absolute no effort on her part and it was guaranteed to be retained. A Win Win for sure!
The law must be satisfied to the extent possible.
For starters: No deleting any e-mail in the personal account until the go'vt can review. Hand over the credentials for the "personal" accounts and allow all messages contained or archived to be copied to the federal servers and go into the public record; contact the email service provider with a court order to hand over all backups, have a police seizure of all digital media Mrs. Hillary had access to, and charge Mrs. Hillary the cost of compliance with the order for recovery of official messages resulting from non-compliance with the law.
...the burner phones. :-)
http://www.quora.com/Why-does-...
I'll just take the first one: plagiarism. Some democrats get to be VP if they plagiarize.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden_presidential_campaign,_1988
She needs to go to jail for at least 20 years because of this.
If the rules are the cause of failure (pretty much a given inside government) then you change them. It's the definition of leadership.
As for the email rules, they're impossible. Literally impossible. No politics on government computers. No governance on personal computers. But nearly all activity at the secretary level is politics. And none if it is far from governance.
You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I applaud Hillary for recognizing that up front and making the sensible choice to use an email system that works well.
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
Burn the Witch!
Hillary is not the only one to blame, imo anybody from the government who sent sensitive matters to that email is.
The Bush White House email controversy surfaced in 2007 during the controversy involving the dismissal of eight U.S. attorneys. Congressional requests for administration documents while investigating the dismissals of the U.S. attorneys required the Bush administration to reveal that not all internal White House emails were available, because they were sent via a non-government domain hosted on an email server not controlled by the federal government. Conducting governmental business in this manner is a possible violation of the Presidential Records Act of 1978, and the Hatch Act. Over 5 million emails may have been lost or deleted. Greg Palast claims to have come up with 500 of the Karl Rove lost emails, leading to damaging allegations. In 2009, it was announced that as many as 22 million emails may have been deleted.
The administration officials had been using a private Internet domain, called gwb43.com, owned by and hosted on an email server run by the Republican National Committee, for various communications of unknown content or purpose. The domain name is an acronym standing for "George W. Bush, 43rd" President of the United States. The server came public when it was discovered that J. Scott Jennings, the White House's deputy director of political affairs, was using a gwb43.com email address to discuss the firing of the U.S. attorney for Arkansas. Communications by federal employees were also found on georgewbush.com (registered to "Bush-Cheney '04, Inc.") and rnchq.org (registered to "Republican National Committee"), but, unlike these two servers, gwb43.com has no Web server connected to it — it is used only for email.
The "gwb43.com" domain name was publicized by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW), who sent a letter to Oversight and Government Reform Committee committee chairman Henry A. Waxman requesting an investigation. Waxman sent a formal warning to the RNC, advising them to retain copies of all emails sent by White House employees. According to Waxman, "in some instances, White House officials were using nongovernmental accounts specifically to avoid creating a record of the communications." The Republican National Committee claims to have erased the emails, supposedly making them unavailable for Congressional investigators.
On April 12, 2007, White House spokesman Scott Stanzel stated that White House staffers were told to use RNC accounts to "err on the side of avoiding violations of the Hatch Act, but they should also retain that information so it can be reviewed for the Presidential Records Act," and that "some employees ... have communicated about official business on those political email accounts." Stanzel also said that even though RNC policy since 2004 has been to retain all emails of White House staff with RNC accounts, the staffers had the ability to delete the email themselves.
Not that being a "career-ender" actually matters to either Dems or Reps - if you're worth millions, who cares if you don't have a job?
And Bill Clinton, like Barack Obama, came into the office basically upper-middle to lower-upper class, and left or will leave as multimillionaires (Clinton is worth double-digit millions, Obama is approaching a billion).
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
... that what Hillary did is against virtually every US government agency policy and directive. You are NEVER to conduct official government business on public systems due to security, archiving and many other reasons. The Clintons are the prototypical scofflaw Democrats.
There once was a senator from mass.
Who went out in search for a piece of asd
Lucked up and found it
But fucked up and drowned it
Even that didn't end his ass.
...this does not seem to be that serious an infraction. To the average citizen, they will see this as the equivalent of using Firefox or Chrome when told to use only IE. (which, interestingly enough, her staff at the state department begged her to allow).In reality though, this is a VERY serious violation of IT/Security policy. The govt run email system has certain protections in place to ensure confidentiality, repel intrusion, prevent staff from snooping on emails, etc. While other email providers also care about these things, it's almost guaranteed that will not go to the same lengths to protect against and punish malfeasance. If I were her, the NSA revelations would have given me stomach ulcer. A govt email could easily be excluded from any digital reconnaissance conducted by the NSA. Her gmail or yahoo account? Just the opposite. And heaven help us if other countries have anything close to our capabilities/level of infiltration into 3rd party email providers. She should seriously be pondering how many of her foreign policy initiatives were foiled as result of her utter laziness and willful ignorance. They should fire some people at the state department -- anyone who received an email from her should have noticed she was using her personal email, and should have "blown the whistle". And this should be a major campaign issue -- but it won't.Our political system is not for the rational -- it's for the power hungry and those entertained by the power hungry. Full hypocrisy disclosure -- I also love House of Cards.
But NONE of the government recipients or people who used to be in government notified any authorities in the US Government that Hillary was violating the rules that they had to follow. So are they all complicit in breaking the law?
Given that private email accounts are not likely secure, how is it that other government official would send sensitive and sometimes secret materials to a private email account of Hillary's. That would also make any government official who sent official emails to Hillary guilty for not following the law.
Just another example of the fact we must follow the law or get hammered by government departments, but when the Clinton's violate law, it's just time for another spin job from Bill & Hillary: "What difference does it make?" with arms raised and screeching. God help the US.
Burn her!
Left MS Windows for Linux Mint and never looked back!
Vote for Bernie in 2016!
This one doesn't pass the smell test for me. If there wasn't something fishy going on it sure looks like there was. Why would she not only choose to use a private email account but not even have an official government email address during that four year period?
Not only that but "no actions to have her personal emails preserved on department servers at the time, as required by the Federal Records Act". I suspect that "no actions" is really 'we were told expressly by Ms. Clinton not to back up any of her email messages'. Everything that passes through State department servers should be backed up routinely. How can it be that for four years none of her emails were backed up anywhere?
This whole thing reminds me of the recent IRS scandal where email backups were suddenly just gone and nobody knows why.
Hillary has a long string of "things that make you go hmmmm...", all the way back to when Slick Willy was in the White House. This is just the most recent example. Politics aside, she is just a person that appears to be slippery and dishonest. What Bill has, that she never will, is a likability that allows some to look past imperfections. She is not to be trusted and will not get my vote.
IOW Just like 23521 people in the Bush administration?
Politicians are openly corrupt today because there are no consequences. No other politician will demand prosecution because then they might get prosecuted when they get caught doing something illegal.
Just think about this during the next election. Do we really want someone in the white house who every time some controversy occurs will disappear for two weeks to avoid the press and congressional inquires, come back and claim "brain damage" and swear the that controversy "never happened".
And Bill Clinton, like Barack Obama, came into the office basically upper-middle to lower-upper class, and left or will leave as multimillionaires
Obama was a multimillionaire before entering the White House, mainly on the strength of his book deals. And Clinton had more than a few investment properties in his Arkansas days. (Famously including Whitewater, but there were some presumably legitimate ones in there too.) Clinton's net worth was almost definitely in the millions when he took office.
If there's an investigation she'll fall out of bed and bump her head again. How many times has she been caught and simply denied any knowledge of what happened?
The difference is that there was outrage for those years that Bush and Company were up to their dealings. Now that we have a new boss (that's the same as the old boss) there is silence from the harshest critics of the Bush regime. What happened to all the protestors with their signs that shown the Republicans as Nazis? Where's all the cries that the Patriot Act was a gateway to totalitarian politics? Where are those that thought we were being eavesdropped on by the man? What happened to all those voices?
Oh, that's right. Now that the shoe is on the other foot we're just going to let it slide?
It had nothing to do with the policies of one administration to another. It was about partisan cheerleading.
Put up or shut up.
Obama is approaching a billion
Really? How?
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
They should all be in jail. I don't think one person breaking the rules is excused by a third party doing the same. Unless you are trying to say that two wrongs do make a right?
Or you can be the Grand Cyclops of your local KKK
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R...
That may surprise people here. The Republicans have done a good job painting her as the quintessential ultra-liberal Democrat, but really she is no such thing. She is, in fact, from the right wing of the party and could have been an establishment Republican a generation ago. She is widely reviled by the left over her vote on the Iraq War Authorization of Military Force (although to be fair, Joe Biden voted for it too and he's seen as generally reliable on liberal issues, as long as he doesn't open his mouth).
On the other hand she's the first really plausible female presidential candidate for a major party, and I think a lot of people who want to see that milestone project a great deal of their hopes on her. But what makes her plausible in the first place is her acceptability to the establishment.
And what makes her acceptable to the establishment is her competence and personal accomplishments; being married to Bill helps. But the Ivy League education, experience in high profile NGOs and partnership in a major law firm mean she's seen as serious by "serious people". But in this case that should be held against her here. She's not like old Uncle Joe (Biden), whose heart is in the right place but who the hell can tell where his mind might go a-wandering; Hillary is someone you expect to have her head in the game. She knew damn well that conducting official business on non-government servers is exactly what people do when they're breaking the law.
I'm neither a Hillary partisan nor a Hillary hater. On the political spectrum I tend to fall a little to the right of the most vocal Democratic base and to the left of the establishment "DLC" wing that dominates the party at the national level. When the Secretary of State does something this fishy, that's a big deal. I think there should be something like a special prosecutor appointed, even though when the words "Clinton" and "special prosecutor" are uttered in the sentence the word "circus" can't be far behind. But then if the special prosecutor finds no indictable offense I'd be happy with that result.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Spitzer seems to be doing OK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V...
Since the CIA monitors government email and the NSA monitors private email, I don't really think this is a security issue.
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
Sandy Berger told her so.
Not only does 'Billary' avoid oversight with respect to government emails, but she also defended a rapist and insulted the victim:
Rapist
And people actually vote for her? How sad.
Political correctness is really just herd psychology pushed by insecure people who desperately seek social conformity.
This will not dissuade Ms. Clinton's adorers, who'll dismiss it all as yet another manifestation of the infamous vast right-wing conspiracy. They love her for being a Collectivist (as in "It takes a village"), a Democrat, and the first female President.
Nor will it affect her opponents ("haters") much, because to them this only confirms, what they knew or suspected for years.
Nothing new here, move along...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
cannot be trusted.
Those of you who don't believe what I say is true are lacking in life experience
with respect to females.
NO WAY I am voting for this cunt for president or vice president. I voted for
Obama and I was betrayed. THIS TIME I vote Republican, because at least
I know from the outset they will screw everyone.
... there are many candidates for the upcoming presidential vacancy I would be less pleased to see in power than Mrs. Clinton.
I have to agree with that and it angers me. There have been honorable politicians who were marginalized (See what he was trying to do to prosecute for fraud on Wall Street)
We have an electorate that falls for soundbites, cheap rhetoric, and refuses to educate themselves and gain more information about the issues - even the ones they truly care about.
And we need to get rid of this idea that changing ones opinions is "flip-floping". I as learn more about issues, my stance softens because they are almost never black and white - as purported on TV news.
And I wish people could get beyond ideology and attaching their egos to their political views.
But I never see that happening and the political elite know how to play the electorate like a fiddle from Hell.
Having a rational discussion is impossible these days without someone immediately getting red faced and yelling - and these are people in my life; I won't begin to get into the Peanut Gallery of the Web.
We have a Government and political climate we deserve.
And "security" is something for the low-level folks on the bottom of the pyramid.
What could possibly go wrong with discussing war, trade accords, war-like disputes, weapons shipments via hillaryc@yahoo.com ???
We all know yahoo mail is impenetrable to all of Russia, North Korea, France and surely Israel.
NOT.
Seriously, it just shows what a bunch of corrupt folks run the show. If they werent corrupt she would by now getting the Sleep Deprivation Torture treatment. Like they did with PfC Manning, who essentially did the same. And yeah, that was very shitty indeed. I suggest she gets proper sleep for ten years in some civilised jail.
If the Whitehouse can present no backup of this account and for some unknown reason the ISP does not have one, further potential litigation could be avoided perhaps if they ask the nice people at the NSA for their backup ;-)
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." - H. L. Mencken
She must be punished for Disregarding Security Rules. 10 years in Quantico would be O.K.
When the administration of the previous guy ... what was his name again? nobody ever talks about him any more ... used personal email instead of government email it was quickly made into a non-issue by our fearless "liberal media". Now Hillary may have done the same and it's a big deal. Why?
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Shes a democrat, she could kill children on the street and get away with it.
You misspelled politician, but since you still believe in the illusion of opposing sides providing benefit to anyone, not sure my clarification means much.
..sigint service. They needed their "success experience", too. So GWB provided them with the opportunity.
Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK IN ALL HELL ? These kind of servers will be hacked in no time by ANY capable Russian Internet Mafia member. And from that point they have an excellent source of intel in many, many aspects.
"RULES?" Come on. If I kill someone I'm not "breaking the rules," I am breaking the LAW.
Likewise, this is Federal Law.
At least the apologists at the NY Times are out in force here to minimize it.
SD just made me type "relevant". Yes, IT IS RELEVANT. If only you can glean the State Of Mind of a member of your "opposing" government, it is very valuable.
You can gauge stress levels, levels of work on "irrelevant" stuff and from that make some very useful inference about the "secret" and "military" side of things. If GWB writes a shitload of emails regarding some National Weather Forecast Funding Policies, you know he is currently not much concerned with - say - some local war in Arabia.
From that follows that the receiver of said intelligence can embolden their covert acts in that war, as they know they are "undisturbed" at the moment.
In general, governments want to conduct their business in (temporary) secrecy and doing that via some sort of crappy commercial server clearly is a gross violation of that principle. Every little police man knows this. He will surely be severly punished for doing official business via some shitty commercial email provider.
After the story broke, several pundits commented that the media will drop the Hillary story as quickly as possible and start digging into Scott Walker's email usage. Sure enough, the first article has appeared. Walker "blurred the lines" while in county government: http://m.jsonline.com/news/sta....
To be fair, Karl Rove was rotten even before he went to jail.
..not come breathing down her neck ? This clearly was one of their tasks - to check on government communications security.
Because they are corrupt, too. Yes folks, I am talking to YOU.
And she wants to be president? I don't think so.
You want to bullshit us by "oh she used convenient google mail. Too bad North Korean Long Range Recon got hold of all her emails. It was just more convenient this way. And too bad the Russkies and the Chinese got a copy, too. Sold for three Mig21 engines for the nork air force".
The elected officials no matter the party stop following the spirit of rules or the spirit of law and actually follow the fucking rules or law.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
Another Democrat blaming bush for Democratic shortcomings!
God damn, grow some adult pants and take responsibility for your decisions.
The Democrats learned from Nixon's 18 minutes, that if you don't leave a trail, there isn't anything to cause *legal* trouble later. And you can always ignore the right-wing media & bloggers.
Worst of all the email address she used was sexeh_mama56@hotmail.com
mailto:Hilldog@sendit.com
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
It will be an interesting exercise to compare the Bush Whitehouse Email Controversy' with Hilary's erupting email 'scandal'
Ken
Bush was a millionaire when he entered office (both Bushs).
Clinton was not a millionaire when he entered office - I think his gig as Gov. Of Arkansas netted him a cool $35K in salary.
Obama stepped into office a millionaire from book sales of his TWO autobiographies.
If Hillary becomes President, she'll step in as a multi-millionaire - probably richer than 'obscenely' rich Mitt Romney.
Ken
Defend. Please.
Clinton lied under oath in court while President - his career ended?
Ken
Republicans have chaired how many committees looking into Benghazi and they NEVER noticed this???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy
Likewise, this is Federal Law.
According to the article in the Washington Post, http://www.washingtonpost.com/...
Clinton spokesman Nick Merrill said in a statement Tuesday: “Like secretaries of state before her, she used her own email account when engaging with any Department officials.
...
“Both the letter and spirit of the rules permitted State Department officials to use non-government email, as long as appropriate records were preserved,” Merrill said.
So, unless there's some specific statement to the contrary, this says (1) this was also the practice of other secretaries of state, and (2) the rules permitted this.
So, I'd like to see the text of the "rule" saying she needed to use a .gov account before saying she broke the law. (People seem to be referring to the 2013 National Archives and Records Administration guidance as the "rules", but 2013 was after she left office.)
-- /. I think I'll post as anonymous.
hmm, since any comment that even mildly defends a politician will draw heavy flames on
She used her own private address for government work, so now all of the email that has ever gone to or from that address should be retained by the government for the public.
Haven't all previous presidents used personal email, sop they could claim executive privilege? If the boss is doing it...
people who would (i.e. will - can we please drop the charade? it's insulting to our intelligence) vote for her don't care what she does PERIOD! she could whip out a glock, unload 3 mags on a crowd & the only thing you'd hear from her supporters is calls for stronger gun control!
yes, the right (particularly religious) is as bad/worse - that doesn't excuse blind eyes towards your person's transgressions...
They aren't reports, they are news stories. Or do you not think the Secretary of State of the United States of America not having a state.gov email address is a big deal?
I think it's astounding. We are not arguing over whether she had one and decided (for whatever reason) not to use one. She was never issued one.
Doesn't that bother you?
Democrats are split into two camps: those beholden to the Clintons and those who hate the Clintons.
In 2008 the Clinton camp thought they had the White House locked up. They'd been lining up their minions for eight years after throwing Gore and Kerry under the bus to ensure the way would be clear in 2008. But the other camp managed to find another candidate willing to run against her, and the voters rather than Clinton cronies made the choice.
The same thing is happening again in 2016. Clinton is running around acting like she's already locked up the nomination, but non-Clinton Democrats are gearing up to defeat her one last time.
"It is very difficult to conceive of a scenario — short of nuclear winter — where an agency would be justified in allowing its cabinet-level head officer to solely use a private email communications channel for the conduct of government business,
And yet, Kerry is the first Secretary of State to actually use a government email. Clinton was evidently following standard practices at the State Department.
The social contract between the people of the US and their Government is fast becoming broken. We should be equal under the law, but alas some Pigs are more important. Hillary is the poster child for this.
Oh and lest we forget, "What does it really matter?".
... that what Hillary did is against virtually every US government agency policy and directive. You are NEVER to conduct official government business on public systems due to security, archiving and many other reasons. The Clintons are the prototypical scofflaw Democrats.
Actually, if that were true, then the Federal Records Act wouldn't need a section dealing with archiving personal emails and the like. What about using personal stationary and your own stamps, is that forbidden, too?
No, the Federal Records Act simply states that the communications need to be archived and submitted, which she actually did. This is nothing more than trying to make a scandal where none exists. Even Condoleezza Rice used her own cell phone while SOS. SOS Kerry is the first to use a government issued phone and email account.
By getting this out there now, it can be written off as "old news" come election time. Savvy news media types know that the best time to expose the skeletons is months in advance. Savvy politicians know this too so expect more of these types of stories being "leaked" to the sympathetic press teams in the next few months. Meanwhile, the opposition is gnashing their teeth and hoping that they are able to reserve most the things that could discredit Hillary until the very last moment.
Another thought occurs to me as well; it seems that every time something like this happens to a liberal candidate, the majority of comments are along the lines of "oh it doesn't really matter because all politicians do this". As if it's expected. I recall the Earth shattering k-boom that rocked the planet when it was revealed that Sarah Pallin used gmail when she was Governor. The amount of ZOMGICANTBELIEVEITHOWSTUPIDANDILLEGALANDIMMORALANDJUSTPLAINDOWNRIGHTBAD that is. Yes, they all do it. Some of them do it for the purposes of obscuring and avoiding exposure. Some of them do it because they are lazy and/or stupid. I'm not proposing that Hillary needs to be put in the public square and become the target of rotten fruit. Just keep this in mind the next time a Republican is exposed and treat the occasion with the same level of contempt.
Charter Member of The Committee Group For The Elimination And Eradication Of Repetitive Redundancy
>> "It is very difficult to conceive of a scenario — short of nuclear winter — where an agency would be justified in allowing its cabinet-level head officer to solely use a private email communications channel for the conduct of government business,
I may be in the minority here, but I think this is perfectly acceptable and intuitive. I'm sorry we WANT to be able to monitor communication channels of officials. At the top executive branch level, that's impractical. If she was never issued an address, that's largely irrelevant to the nature of the agenda. The Law often conflicts with reality, so this doesn't surprise or alarm me. The statement about nuclear winter is laughably partisan.
Often wrong but never in doubt.
I am Jack9.
Everyone knows me.
And this cunt wants to be a leader of the greatest nation? She can't even follow a simple security policy. God help us if this is the pride and joy of the Democratic party in 2016!
...to burn the witch.
To me at least.
I think it may be something regarding that whole... "THIS IS LIKE THE AFTERMATH OF WORLD WAR III" thing.
When it is actually closer to an overzealous former librarian complaining about overdue books turned in late.
From TFA:
It was only two months ago, in response to a new State Department effort to comply with federal record-keeping practices, that Mrs. Clinton's advisers reviewed tens of thousands of pages of her personal emails and decided which ones to turn over to the State Department. All told, 55,000 pages of emails were given to the department.
...
"It's a shame it didn't take place automatically when she was secretary of state as it should have," said Thomas S. Blanton, the director of the National Security Archive, a group based at George Washington University that advocates government transparency. "Someone in the State Department deserves credit for taking the initiative to ask for the records back. Most of the time it takes the threat of litigation and embarrassment."
...
"I can recall no instance in my time at the National Archives when a high-ranking official at an executive branch agency solely used a personal email account for the transaction of government business," said Mr. Baron, who worked at the agency from 2000 to 2013.
...
Before the current regulations went into effect, Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, who served from 2001 to 2005, used personal email to communicate with American officials and ambassadors and foreign leaders.
...
Penalties for not complying with federal record-keeping requirements are rare, because the National Archives has few enforcement abilities.
...
"It is very difficult to conceive of a scenario - short of nuclear winter - where an agency would be justified in allowing its cabinet-level head officer to solely use a private email communications channel for the conduct of government business," said Jason R. Baron, a lawyer at Drinker Biddle & Reath who is a former director of litigation at the National Archives and Records Administration.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
For all of you 20-yr-olds...
Bush & co did it first.
mark
I fully understand the implication for archival purposes of this failure and I'm not happy but it seems she's trying to rectify this thought I'd rather a national archivist select which emails get archived not her staff. However,I kind of yawn at this aspect of things: not good but not worth getting in a tissy over.
My greater concern was if any of the communication was classified or unclassified but sensitive. I mean over the course of her tenure she's got to have had some emails like that. Even if none of it was classified or sensitive, does she understand the implications this has for national security particularly should she become president and do something this boneheaded? She's gotta know she was doing it and it was wrong.
Was she under attack and making a corkscrew landing during this email abuse?
There is just something deeply unpleasant about Hillary Clinton. Perhaps it is her support for the violent terrorist foreign policy of the United States. I just don't think she is electable. Even in America, where the debate is completely restricted by completely irrelevant propaganda, spewed by a media that is owned by the same powerful interest groups that are paying for the installation of these political 'representatives'. At least to an outsider, the policies for which Mrs Clinton stands, are just too violent, crude, and medieval - even for America. If I was an American (which I'm eternally thankful that am not!), I'd actually vote, and vote republican, just to save the world from her awful Kissingeresque view of the world. Most of the Republian Party seems to be full of total cranks these days, so they are much less likely to be able to formulate and pursue ideas that can do as much potential harm outside the United States.
Nobody claimed that either Bush wasn't a multimillionaire. And like President Obama earned his millions somewhere other than the Senate, Clinton earned money outside the governor's office. The Bushes earned money in businesses. Obama earned money as an author. And Clinton earned money in real estate and some other investments. There's nothing wrong with any of this (well, other than Whitewater), but none of them were in the middle class when they entered the White House.
And all comments critical of those who think this is a wonderfully written article modded down?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. :D
Well now we know where Slashdot gets it's money.
According to the Daily Beast, those "rules" that Hillary supposedly broke... weren't put in place until almost a year after she left office.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/a...
"The new regs apparently weren’t fully implemented by State until a year and half after Clinton left State. Here’s the timeline: Clinton left the State Department on February 1, 2013. Back in 2011, President Obama had signed a memorandum directing the update of federal records management. But the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) didn’t issue the relevant guidance, declaring that email records of senior government officials are permanent federal records, until August 2013. Then, in September 2013, NARA issued guidance on personal email use."
The records law was brought into the 21st century after Clinton left the State Department. Also, she turned over all official correspondence.
She may not have violated any laws.
http://thedailybanter.com/2015...
http://www.thedailybeast.com/a...
This passage may prove key:
If she CC'd a government email address each and every time she was on gov't business, then technically it would be properly preserved because all gov't email accounts are supposed to be archived. We don't know if or how many were not CC'd in this way yet.
As far as whether using that technique is an official "security risk" is also unclear. Bad practice, yes. Illegal, perhaps not.
I expect a lot of complex and controversial interpreting of the law text during the course of this. Laws involving IT are often vague.
Table-ized A.I.
You know people don't have to dig long to find dirt on the Clinton's. Its everywhere and the worst part Hillary is not very good at answering up to any of hit.
I personally think Hillary will be a weak candidate for the Democrat's and I think some are trying to convince Hillary of that. But who exactly would the Democrat's choose if not for Hillary? Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket and having the hawk take them away. I am not much into politics, it makes me ill to see both sides always act like children. Nobody seems focused on America in general. Just on their ideologies and making them succeed. Just turn on Cspan and you will see at least one throwing some sort of tantrum. It would be amusing if it were not for our Country falling apart because of it.
Since Palin did this and got away scott free, doing Hillary for this would be partisanship. Not doing Hillary would either denote the rules don't apply any more and/or "both sides are as bad as each other".
Only way to cut this knot is to do Hillary for this and go back and do Palin for the same thing with the same consequences at the same time.
If either side disagrees with it, you know which side is worse.
Smell that stench of hypocrisy? It its the smell of Republicans dropping their pants and shitting on the fire built for them by the media.
It blends perfectly with the hypocritical stench of "librul bias" in the media, which bares the scent of decades of Republicans pissing on objective facts. Fox News is where they go and swill cheap beer so they can keep going with that decades long pissing contest.
Ultimately they are pissing and shitting on the Constitution, and for some reason I don't understand nobody seems to care.
Why is Snark Required?
Republicans are trying to run democrats as republicans? That's the dumbest thing I have read in a while. The problem with the republican party is that they are mostly stupid and crazy.
Did you see the Speaker of the house making kissing noises to the cameras during a press conference?
Have you noticed how they have tried over 40 times to repeal the ACA knowing full well it wouldn't get past the senate and would be vetoed?
Have you seen how they have vowed to fight net neutrality even though 75% of the population supports it? 75 PERCENT!
They are crazy and stupid. Global warming denialism. Freaking about about Sharia law in the US. Freaking out about ISIS killing us all(That was Lindsay Graham). Ever hear the phrase "disparage my asparagus?" That was the idiot republican Gohmert who somehow is also a judge. How about the push for teaching creationism in schools? It goes on and on and on. The stupid is strong with them.
The republican party serves the billionaires and the corporations at the detriment of the middle and working classes and they need crazy stupid racists in order to get into office. The problem is that the old guard in the republican party cannot control the monster they have created.
Republicans lose general elections because you have to be a complete nutjob(or at least pretend to be one) to win a primary in the republican party and most of the US doesn't vote for war mongering, science denying, racist, xenophobic nutjobs.
I seriously wish I could split the world into a conservative hemisphere and a liberal hemisphere. The conservatives from every country put together would end up all warring with each other and the liberals of all the countries in the world would work together to solve problems and build a healthy society. That's because liberalism is about progress and community and problem solving, conservatism is about preventing change. Conservatives are ALWAYS on the wrong side of history. ALWAYS.
She was manipulating CIA intelligence and the media in order to start a war based on lies and fear.
Oh wait, that was someone else.
It's amazing how much conservatives will freak out about Hillary but lying to start a war and running up a huge bill without putting it on the books doesn't get a peep out of them. And they will wax poetically about the brave soldiers who died and were maimed needlessly while those tyrants walk free.
But Benghazi! Private Email! Freak out!
Executive orders to provide a path to citizenship for hard working immigrants? OMFG! Impeach him!
Executive criminal behavior by the Koch brothers and the Wall Street bankers? not a peep from the conservatives.
> She may have violated federal requirements that officials' correspondence be retained as part of the agency's record.
I got news for you, if she did so she was ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, VIOLATING FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS THAT OFFICIAL CORRESPONDENCE BE RETAINED. There is no "may" about it. Lerner is learning the law, now she is, too. You should join them!
Yes, in some elections we can only choose the lesser of two evils.
But it makes me mad when people use that as an excuse to not go to the polls. Because if you don't choose the lesser of two evils, you'll get the greater of two evils.
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
It's worse than not caring. After the IRS Commissioner testified before Congress that Lois Lerner's emails were lost and gone forever, the Inspector General located the backup tapes easily -- and we learn that THE I.T. GUYS HAD NEVER EVEN BEEN ASKED TO RETRIEVE THE BACKUPS. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
ABC News went into full panic mode today and tried to cover for Hillary by finding Republicans that might be guilty of the same thing. They quickly put together a story about a Republican Representative who had a gmail account on his business card
http://twitchy.com/2015/03/03/shocker-rep-jason-chaffetz-has-gmail-address-on-his-business-card-which-is-perfectly-ok/
Mission Accomplished - except for the embarrasing fact the Congress is not subject to FOIA/archive laws.
Whoops!
This is the strongest rebuttal yet to the government assertions that people do not have an expectation of privacy in emails. If the Whitehouse and State Department staffs think that a private email account if secure enough for government business, then clearly the government expects that emails are private.
This the the best rebuttal to claims that the government has the right to root through people's emails (even just the metadata) without a warrant.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Wait, why should any of us care how Hillary gets her email. We're trumping up procedural irregularities as a criminal act.
Maybe she doesn't know the law. That would be bad for her. She has a J.D. degree.
Maybe she's computer illiterate and doesn't understand how to use two email accounts. Also bad for her.
Maybe she is lazy. Doubt it.
Maybe she doesn't believe in transparency in government, and wanted to avoid having a record. Perhaps, but it seems like the FBI and NSA could pull quite a bit off most email services. So really only a warrant away from not being much of a secret.
I'm going to kill myself if this is the main thing everytone talks about about in 2016.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
More slip shot narratives, that will seep into the subconscious of frenzied angry white males.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/03/hillary-email-scandal-not-so-fast.html
...we had a local (fabricated) controversy about a county commissioner using his cell phone to order a pizza. Huge excuse for people to get all wound up about the "misuse" of government resources... waste of taxpayer money. You'd of thought a couple of phone calls from a guy working late (and being paid a pittance) were a horrible offense. I'd be surprised if most of you hadn't heard of similar incidents. They might even be more common than the reverse.
So we might make the leap (easy for some; impossible for others) that H.Clinton wasn't trying to something to get away with something nefarious. By using her personal email account, she avoided the pitfall of unthinkingly sending a fundraiser email, or a baby shower invitation, or a note to her paramour (well, maybe not) via her .gov email account.
Shucks, my mail tool has a little pull-down that lets me send a given email from any of several accounts. Occasionally I forget and send one from the wrong account. Good thing I'm not an elected official.
My point, to belabor it, is that every faux pas isn't necessarily devious. The fault lies as much with our hyper-partisan mentality as anything else.
the federal regulations went into effect in late November, 2014 when President Obama signed H.R. 1233, modernizing the Federal Records Act of 1950 to include electronic communications. It was signed two years after Clinton stepped down."
Using a non-government email address was not illegal until 2014. Not handing over certain official communications when they're needed was and is illegal. Clinton acted perfectly legally in using a personal email account, and also in turning over tens of thousands of emails for official storage.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
As many in the private sector IT space know, if there is a compliance requirement to protect, archive, or destroy data, the responsibility falls on someone in the IT staff to ensure that everything is in place and working. Someone within IT knew that she was using her personal email address and should have put a mechanism in place to monitor, secure, and archive those emails. If she pushed back, they should have notified someone up the chain and ultimately the lawyers of her lack of compliance. Baring a documented trail that shows that IT reported on and attempted to rectify the situation somehow or that she was told to do something and refused to, White House IT is responsible for the failure here.
At the time many ranking officials in the US had their own email servers - In 2013 the ruling came down to it must be an official government email address and server that was for email and official correspondences . Clinton resigned from that position in 2013 - So what was done was actually the norm for the time.
This so like the opposition to to bring up a non fact in light of the possible presidential bid in 2016
next this we'll hear is "Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi" again and the waste of time with yet another Hearing that will cost the american people millions.
no matter how good it is, it is human nature always wants to make things better
So the NY Times busted her? Interesting, they were on her side.
Come on, people, this is SLASHDOT!
What mail server software did she use?
What kind of hardware?
How much ram? Disk?
What kind of internet did they have? Just one ISP? Two? Three? What kind of hardware used for firewall and ISP rollover and/or load balancing?
What kind of backup and redundancy? External disk? Redundant server? Offsite? Cloud? What kind of malware protection?
THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD BE DISCUSSING! There are tons of other websites and blogs to bitch at each other about politics.
Flappinbooger isn't my real name
...to anyone at or above the General Petraeus level.
So, the next Clinton administration will be just as transparent as the Obama administration.
"I can recall no instance in my time at the National Archives when a high-ranking official at an executive branch agency solely used a personal email account for the transaction of government business," said Mr. Baron, who worked at the agency from 2000 to 2013.
Someone else pointed out that Cheney used mostly personal email for government business, but not solely, so I guess that gets a pass.
Also I saw no rule that requires all official emails use government servers. That's what she is accused of actually breaching. At least according to the summary and posters here. There's very little fact into what she did wrong, and more a focus on blaming her for something, anything, so long as it's plausible.
Learn to love Alaska
There's very little fact into what she did wrong, and more a focus on blaming her for something, anything, so long as it's plausible.
What I meant with torches and pitchforks and witch-burning .
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens