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Snowden Reportedly In Talks To Return To US To Face Trial
HughPickens.com writes: The Globe and Mail reports that Edward Snowden's Russian lawyer, Anatoly Kucherena, says the fugitive former U.S. spy agency contractor is working with American and German lawyers to return home. "I won't keep it secret that he wants to return back home. And we are doing everything possible now to solve this issue. There is a group of U.S. lawyers, there is also a group of German lawyers and I'm dealing with it on the Russian side." Kucherena added that Snowden is ready to return to the States, but on the condition that he is given a guarantee of a legal and impartial trial. The lawyer said Snowden had so far only received a guarantee from the U.S. Attorney General that he will not face the death penalty. Kucherena says Snowden is able to travel outside Russia since he has a three-year Russian residency permit, but "I suspect that as soon as he leaves Russia, he will be taken to the U.S. embassy."
Really bad idea. If he was going to do this he should have never bothered leaving in the first place.
They will hang you, literally or figuratively. Build a good life in Russia, and keep speaking out.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
Lied under oath to Congress.
No penalty for that.
...and I wouldn't trust any guarantee I received if I were in Snowden's situation. His best case scenario would be to find himself a nice country(read: not Russia) without an extradition treaty and negotiate his way there. The only way is if the president officially pardons him or he is convicted in absentia and the president commutes his sentence, but even then, they'll find something to stick on him, just like they used the IRS to take down gangsters and the mafia.
All the scum responsible for the illegal spying go on trial at the same time.
Snowden isn't going to come to the USA willingly to face trial. This is all a ruse. His Russian handlers may just be messing with the US or it may be said to get some publicity. If Snowden really wanted to face justice, he wouldn't have done what he did. His handler is quite right that if Snowden leaves Russia he may end up extradited to the USA. Snowden is going to stay as a permanent "guest" of the USSR, cough cough, I mean Russian Republic as long as Putin is in charge and possibly longer. Wait for it - in the end Snowden or his handlers will say that he couldn't get the guarantees he needed about a fair trial, so he won't be coming. Even if he really wanted to leave and face US justice with no pre-conditions, I don't think Putin and his former KGB boys would let Snowden leave.
Working at the Moscow McDonald's can't be all that bad. Can it? Maybe Putin is scared the US may come in there and get him.
Is he a traitor, or was his whistle blowing justified?
The real problem is that he could be both at the same time.
Same as in the military, if you disobey a direct order and that disobedience ends up saving lives, you can still be charged with disobeying a direct order.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
What part of "releasing classified documents" doesn't he understand? It's pretty obvious he violated US law. Fair and impartial won't change that outcome.
You may argue that the law is bad, or that the purpose of his actions was noble. That same may be said of killing [insert bad guy]. It doesn't make the murder legal, it may only lessen the sentence. I'm not sure when facing the death penalty, that life without parole in a federal penitentiary is going to be that much more appealing if your goal is to live out your life in the United States without constantly being under the thumb of the government.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
He's coming back to report, and be debriefed! You don't really think he 'did' anything, do you?
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Personally, I'd rather die then spend a few years in solitary at ADX Florence. It's basically non-physical torture and you can expect to be insane at the end of it.
If he think he'll get a fair trial or even humane treatment he's kidding himself. There is no such thing as a fair trial in this country, the deck is stacked in favor of the prosecution at every stage and we saw how they treated Manning. They've shown at every step of the way they are willing to ignore the law or make it up as they go while doing whatever they want. Even if Russia is becoming an authoritarian regime, it's more freedom and probably better treatment then he'll get if comes back.
I'm sure he would be given super star status if he were to move to North Korea. Most there live in squalor but I have a feeling he'd be given the VIP treatment; and it's a hell of a lot better than a cell.
The trial will be classified. He will be made an example of to prevent further leaks. He'd be nuts to return.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
After Putin took out Nemtsov, Snowden must be thinking it's time to relocate.
Could have sworn most of the criminals involved in the Snowden revelations, are not only in the US but could be easily gathered from their cushy government offices to stand trial. It's only fair to go after the worst criminals first, before going after the people who reported them.
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
That's the whole point of getting him back - to silence him.
The trial is a pretext, a farce.
Uncle Sam is guilty of heinous acts against humanity that even the most hardened ISIS veteran would balk at.
Mr Snowden, I thank you for wikileaks. You have exposed the ugly deeds of my government and its well-disguised disdain towards us common folks.
Good luck.
I don't see any upside in returning to America to be humiliated by the propaganda machine of the United States government with an automatic conviction. Talk about show trial. Snowden's motivations would be attacked from every angle and he would get no opportunity to tell his side or explain his motivations in court since a judge would immediately silence any testimony to that effect. A Snowden trial would set back the cause of Liberty.
I don't entirely disagree with you here. I do think he has untapped earning potential in Russia, though. If he can get a long-term work visa, there are any number of Russian (Kaspersky as an example) and overseas security consulting firms who would vanity hire him as a security auditor. He was making $200k per year as a contractor for the NSA and I expect he could fetch that or more from a company looking to raise their profile in the security industry. Heck, look at Kevin Mitnick. And that guy was a newb compared to Snowden. I expect $200k per year probably supports a more lavish lifestyle in Russia than it did when Snowden was living in Hawaii.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
Snowden is a very intelligent individual.
There is no way on this EARTH he can possibly put any trust into the US Government to keep their word irregardless of what they may promise. Even if this isn't BS ( which I suspect it is ) you KNOW one of the conditions will be to provide the USG with the full cache of documents and / or the cessation of any further disclosures contained within said cache. The USG does not like to be embarrassed on the world stage. Not one bit.
Even IF by some magical amazing miracle the USG keeps their word ( Recall these people spy on their friends / allies and torture anyone to get what they want ) he couldn't return to the US because about half the country has consumed the wrong color Kool-Aid and believes he's a traitor that deserves to die. So even if the USG doesn't do it, they wouldn't have to. They'll let the radicals do it for them.
I can understand he may be homesick, but returning to the US now will certainly not be the same life he left behind. If he's LUCKY, he'll just sit in prison for the rest of his life.
Unless . . . . .
Unless he has something yet unrevealed on the NSA so incredibly damning, that the USG would do anything to prevent its disclosure. That scenario is the only possibility I can think of where these negotiations could potentially prevent any of the usual behavior we've come to expect of the USG as of late.
On some level, I feel like Snowden has to explore the option to return, if only to make clear his long-stated desire to do so, look for avenues to negotiate, and keep his supporters engaged.
I am very doubtful, however, that he will be treated fairly given that he committed the unpardonable crime of embarrassing the U.S. government. Obama is clearly petty and pig-headed enough to resist any cries for justice. His mind is made up about a lot of things, this just being one.
If I were him, though, I'd have to be very nervous anxious about being the guest of such a calculating thug during a time of such geopolitical aggression and uncertainty. I mean Vlad could just order him killed by unknown assailants and then blame the U.S. for the purposes of some minor PR points. He's that kind of guy.
Dear Edward Snowden. There has been one person telling the truth and that has been you. You have lost pretty much everything and gained nothing. I hope the day comes when you can walk the streets of our misguided country as a free man. Thank you.
If he did voluntarily return to the US this would be yet again a very brave move from him. The first very brave move was to leave the US and release the information he had.
He's not coming back here. He's not even considering it. This is a PR move and nothing more.
Unfortunately there are those in the US that see him as a traitor and an enemy. That's going to taint his message, which is important. By saying that he's willing to come back if he gets a fair trial he's putting the impetus on the US Government to offer the parameters of a "fair trial." Of course, none of those parameters will be adequate because they can't be. There is no fair trial for Snowden in the US. There never will be. But by doing this the dialog can advance. His supporters can say, "Look, he's willing to come back but the terms really aren't fair yet..."
Nothing to see here... move along.
If he were returning home (seriously) and not just messing around, all he has to do is come to some agreement on the charges and venue of the trial before arriving back in the US. That is all that is available to him, and the only guarantees that he get. There are plenty of high-power lawyers from prestigious law firms that would handle his case pro-bono because of the exposure, the courts are the courts and they are not going to make changes to them just for him..... the only issue is what the charges would be.... which would be very serious no matter what.
Wow, I never realized Russia was that bad of a place to live. This speaks volumes.
Better known as 318230.
What's he coming back for, the hangin'?
Perhaps Russia is not a worker's paradise after all. Furthermore, it is quite traditional for the Russian government to conduct periodic purges, perhaps Snowdon heard rumors.
It's still a goddamn shame that none of the allegedly "neutral" countries had the balls to take him in, but what can you do? The US is scary.
I don't think the time is yet right for him to come home, the government isn't any friendlier now than when he left and the people are only slightly less apathetic. Without some powerful public figures to support him, he doesn't stand a chance. However with the situation deteriorating in Russia I imagine it would only be a time before he was assassinated or traded back to the US, so he can't well stay there. At least this will shut up the "Why did he run if he really believes in his cause?" crowd - just kidding they'll change the script and keep on going. Always better to make it a referendum on Snowden's character than to actually talk about the real issues.
Snowden may be using what leverage he has left. He has not yet disclosed all the information he obtained so the US government might cut a deal to avoid further disclosures.
"He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
You won Snowden, live with it!
Prison sucks and military prison sucks worst.
They will do you like they did Manning, keep you in a dark hole so your skin turns pale white and you get severely depressed from the lack of sunlight.
Your "daily exercise" will consist of military assholes giving you marching orders outside while naked, running into walls and doing endless pushups.
They will keep you isolated and malnourished, you'll be faking medical conditions so you can talk to the doctor or nurse. The chaplain will be your only friend and that would be terrible conversation limited to only what the good book says.
Fair trial or not, the US Government has got you dead to rights committing a crime and that's all the jury is going to be hand selected and instructed to observe, if the law was broken or not. Not why you did it or that it was in the interest of the American public to know. Many people get fooled into that scam and find out there are no exceptions, if they got the evidence and the law was broken your punished plain and simple. The government has to make a example out of you.
This is no OJ trial, you would be taking on the best prosecutors in the country and they already can prove beyond a reasonable doubt a crime was committed. Why bother risk losing, you have already won. Move to southern Russia and try to get some sunlight, it will make you happier.
There are many in the US that consider your revelations a crime (especially those with military training) and it's all too easy for the government to rig the game. Even five years in prison is going to make you insane, not to mention being in close proximity to people that will kill you just for the fame inside or on the outside. Don't think the guards or cops won't set that up? Think again.
Stay in Russia and over time your former homeland mentality will diminish and disappear, live your life as free as possible. Enjoy the sunlight and not having to look over your shoulder.
There is no way in hell your going to have your peachy USA life back, even if you managed to get out of prison, the jack booted government thugs will be trying to set you up left and right.
Hawaii was great, so was your bartender girl friend and the money. But it's gone now. It's a memory to be cherished as what you did to alert the world of the growing threat of government surveillance.
We thank you, now live long and prosper.
As part of his re-patriation agreement, he should require cameras to be rolling throughout the entire trial with a live uncensored feed available to any organization that wants it (News organizations, EFF, ACLU, etc). If the government shuts down the cameras for any reason, then the agreement is null and void and the USA guarantees his return to Russia.
Then the american people can decide if the trial is "fair" -- if the government tries to redact all of the evidence due to national security reasons, then it's hard to see how the trial can be called "fair".
I realize that the USA will likely ignore the agreement once he's on american soil, but at least it demonstrates that the USA government can't be trusted to abide by its own agreements and it validates Snowden's reason for fleeing to Russia.
It was annouced today that former General David Patraeus (former head of the CIA, former commander of US forces in Afghanistan) has been allowed to plead guilty to one misdemeanor count of disclosing classified information after providing large amount of secret info to his mistress and biographer. Should Petraeus, who was motivated by vanity and sex, get a better deal than Snowden who was motivated by love of country and his own idealistic morality? I think not.
"He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
Wow. Is he a masochist? As others have stated above, for all of our terrible terrible problems, the US is a nice place to live. However, I don't think we've come far enough yet for him to return and receive a fair trial. His personal world here will never be the American Dream again. Too many muggles here are still drinking the 'Snowden is a Traitor' kool-aid.
His life in partial hiding is going to be better than the life in prison that our 'justice' system is sure to give him. In fact, I think he can make more of a difference as a figure head, speaking about the justice and liberties the US used to be known for. Show how a single individual can help improve upon the fucked up situation we're currently facing in the US.
I'm grateful for everything he has done, it took a real commitment and belief in justice to sacrifice his life in the US. I just really hope he doesn't end up spending his life in prison. A terrible fate for someone who is willing to give up so much to do what is right.
Russia's not the country of freedom that some think it would be, as freedom is conditional to having a large amount of assets and/or not showing any opposition whatsoever to the current leader. In the US, the thresholds for such activity are much higher.
Of course, a fair and impartial trial will also require him to accept a very high likeliness of losing the case, based on the current evidence against him.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
He can build a good life in Russia. I've been there and could live there - it is a fascinating, huge country, rich in culture of all kinds. Moscow and St Petersburg are amazing. I'm sure he could get work with Kaperksy or any number of firms. He can write his memoirs. He can campaign for whatever from the safety of Russia. Young Russian women are better than cute - they're absolutely gorgeous. It's not all snow, Russia gets very hot summers, and there's nude bathing in one section of the Moscow River.
Sure it's a slight challenge to live in Russia. But if he goes back to the US, the authorities will fuck him as hard as they can, over and over, and he will be lucky to get out of prison in under 30 years, if at all. If Snowden trusts any deal the US pretends to be making with him, then he's mad. They will fuck him and they will enjoy fucking him. It's personal.
The only way I would believe a trial actually occurred is if it was televised to the public.
Just to get 'Seal Team Sixed'? Pass.
He is hoping to have charges filed and underway, with him back on home turf. Then when the big O leaves the white house he can pardon him on the way out in exchange for STFU.
Anything they tell him. Anything they guarantee. None of it will be true. Even if they put it in writing, they'll simply ignore it or break the agreements.
By the time the highly televised trial starts, there will have never been any such agreements, he will have 'came back because of his guilt to finally accept that justice be dealt for his treason', and the offended agencies will finally be able to say "look, we respect people's rights/privacy/life/sentience, it was only THIS HORRIFIC MONSTER that did all of the bad things he claimed we did but now its okay you'll be safe from his terrorism".
Then again, I wonder why he'd even be in such talks (if he is). Were his parents and/or family still alive and in the US by any chance?
You imprison the government
Because he's a free man walking no matter what "evidence" the prosecutors bring to court.
Based on historic evidence, the US has absolutely zero intention of honouring a 'fair' and 'impartial' trial. Chelsea manning leaked a video of US soldiers murdering an ambulance of civillians and was gifted 35 years in prison for a largely victimless crime. KSM and about 100 other 'detainees' at guantanamo, although routinely and repeatedly insisted that they face American justice are in fact completely in limbo. the FBI has been caught spying on defense council and fabricating evidence and the US Congress, once they realized a program of torture and forced rendition would open these individuals to american courts and the possibility of acquittal immediately moved to isolate, restrict, and outlaw transport or trial of any detainee in an american court.
Civil forfeiture entirely usurps legal process in favour of a carte blanche land and property grab in the pursuit of the "war on drugs." Police are routinely found murdering people in suspicious or controversial situations only to never face trial. the financial collapse of 2008 involved some of the largest banks and securities companies committing fraud on a massive scale, and not a single arrest or trial has taken place. So please, Edward, I understand youre homesick for the first few years in a new place but you need to consider the very legitimate possibility that "american justice" is completely and utterly arbitrary and held to no reasonable, impartial international standard. it exists and functions by virtue of its own existence. Martyring yourself wont change anything, wont alter systems like foreign policy or defense at all. You wont face reason. You will be hanged, and then there will be cake and spin to continue insisting the system of american exceptionalism works.
Good people go to bed earlier.
Snowden should sneak out of Russia, find his way across the Ural mountains, in to Mongolia and head south in to southeast asia like Thailand or Vietnam, find some sleepy village where nobody cares about world politics and settle down in a little house in the hills, it would be suicide or at least a long prison term in Leavenworth by coming back to the USA
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
Snowden must be mad wanting to return to the US.
There is no way in hell he will get a fair trial since the US Gov are just dying to make an example of him.
Any judge that Snowden gets will already know to play ball with the US Gov so will automatically give Snowden the worst possible sentence.
Hold the trial in a neutral location outside the US like Switzerland. It can be based on US law, but under the control of an independent third party. Get agreement that any prison time is spent somewhere with a humane prison system, like Norway.
and who can live on jury pay for a long trail like this?
Will maybe having the up side of free room, free food, free swimming pool, free HBO. Ooh. Free Willy.
Not possible. There are too many details and too much subjective interpretation involved. This is totally at his peril. I would expect the government to use its unlimited resources to completely eviscerate the spirit of any deal by manipulating the minutia.
The only way home I can think of for Snowden is if someone like Rand Paul ends up as President (not ideal, but there are worse choices):
1) He seems to genuinely care about civil rights (is against the Patriot Act, use of drones, government surveillance etc), and this would be an opportunity to put his money where his mouth is
2) Only a Republican would snub President Obama in such a way
Fat chance of that happening, though.
Of course, a fair and impartial trial will also require him to accept a very high likeliness of losing the case, based on the current evidence against him.
Yup. When the law is immoral, only the immoral are innocent of breaking the law.
I'm pretty sure if he could even get 1/3 of his former salary he could live pretty big in russia, pushing spam or w/e
i would sooooooooooo not go back to some area where extremely pissed off authorities had jurisdiction.
Snowden's case is far too political, the justice system will stick him in prison for the rest of his life. Jjudges have a large tendency to do what the establishment expect them to do, that's what they're paid for.
Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
Can we infer from this that the Federal government doesn't consider "suicide by two bullets to the back of the head" capital punishment?
Because we all know that (or something similarly underhanded) is going to happen.
Don't do it, Ed.
Except that he doesn't have the documents. He is powerless to prevent the continued release of the documents that are now in the posession of the journalists. He may not even know everything that was on the drive when he handed it over to the journalists in Hong Kong.
There is nothing the USG can do to him - not torture, not a fair trial followed by imprisonment in a minimum-security prison, not even a complete exoneration during trial or Presidential pardon following trial - that will change what does/doesn't get leaked in the future, because he doesn't have the documents.
If he comes back, he must be ruled a felon. If he isn't, he'll be eligible for president in a few years to come and there is serious danger that he'd get elected as an independent candidate.
Eisenhower is dead. And the big parties will not let anyone rise to the top who cares about America more than his cronies. Not any more.
So they can't afford to nail him down sufficiently to keep him from ever running for president. Preferably kill him. But that could annoy people.
From past experience, we can be pretty sure that nothing could be so damning as to make the American people stand up and genuinely hold the criminals accountable. So seriously, what do they care?
Do not come back until we have a complete change of government here in the USA. You will not get a fair trial.
Our current government is broken, corrupt & vindictive. You hurt them, they want your blood.
Nothing has changed since you leaked those documents.
Be seeing you...
reason being, what evidence have they got that they want out in the public domain, feeding the 24x7xscrew-it, we-never-blink news cycle?
"May it please the court, I have ten million intercepts the defendent had access to. But you can't look. Oh, no, secret secret, we already shot the custodian of the documents."
"Counselor, that's all you ever say."
"Judge, I got a rifle on you, too."
nah, this can't be a fair trial. stay safe. stay gone.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Obama could never allow the headline "Nobel Peace Winner imprisons other Nobel Peace Winner".
Hah! Getting a "fair" criminal trial can be a very expensive proposition in the US. That's for a normal person. For Snowden, in the current political climate, seriously????? He's fucked. No amount of guarantees will un-fuck him.
Not sure after going to Russia he will get just a Whistle blower status. Yes, for me I am glad he brought to the attention of all American's what our own government is doing to spy on its own people. Makes me compare it to what a country like Russia would be doing. Its the steps he took after releasing all this information that gives me conflicts on how he should be treated.
First, he is guranteed all that anyway by law.
Second, Snowden is an active spy for the NSA / CIA. His mission was to make the world believe the NSA had more capabilities than they really have. To get everybody so scarred to do anything in secret.
Even if he had a trial, he would either be found innocent, or he would be found guilty and given a new identity.
If the judge and the bailiffs were actually kangaroos! That would be adorable!
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free
You're way off topic there. If you'd said "Snowden should insist that SystemD is made optional in all major Linux distos" you'd have made a +1 Insightful troll.
Snowden can get a "Fair and Balanced" trial. He just needs to turn himself over to FOX.
Murder is illegal, whether a jury finds one defendant guilty beyond reasonable doubt is a separate question. Similarly, the chances of a jury to nullifying laws against what Snowden did is essentially zero; the laws against unauthorized release of classified information are not in question here.
Some people might have heard the name, but that doesn't mean he couldn't get a fair trial; the potential jurors will be asked if the publicity will effect their ability to decide the case. I would be surprised if more than a tiny fraction of potential jurors have even heard of him, let alone paid any attention what he did. This isn't about Bruce Jenner getting a sex change you know.
But I suspect this is just publicity whoring by the people controlling Snowden. His 15 minutes of fame are over, the rest of the world has moved on.
Looking at the cold war defectors, or even domestic whistle blowers in US history there is precedent.
I think he understands that given time, his actions will be vindicated, not only by the people but by the US government (eventually). However it is too recent and raw to expect anything meaningful to happen anytime soon. The calculation he is doing is if he can swing a deal to stay in minimum security Club Fed for 10-20 years or Russia, after which cooler heads will eventually prevail (not to mention that the advance of technology might hasten it by making what he exposed a moot point), and the US will issue a grand apology, pardon, and call him a hero ( or at at least not vilify him as a traitor anymore), allowing him to live out the rest of his life in relative normalcy using his time to write a book about his experiences, and do a modest book tour and perhaps talk show circuit.
I think this is one where he has history on his side (future history really), however recognizing that it isn't going to happen over night, and a lot of time will probably need to pass (and certain people retire) before anything positive is likely to happen in his favor.
I think it is likely to work also. He probably recognizes that he is already in a prison of sorts, with little hope for the immediate future. However he is free enough and Russia wants to snub the US enough, that he is more of a thorn than anything. They would like nothing more to throw him in jail for *something* and forget about him for an extended period of time. He has made a big enough a deal, that disappearing him or convenient accidents really aren't much of an option anymore. The real question will be if the US really wants to open up a full fledged court case over the mess and the possible political fallout that might create depending on the outcome. Having him come home, and a conditional plead to some trivial crime that puts him away for the time being is probably his best bet, and is probably what he is negotiating for.
There's quite a difference in the sensitivity, quantity, and scale of disclosure between the two cases. Prosecutors are more likely to go by impact of the leak rather than motivation of the leaker.
Snowden has no bargaining power. Nobody can trust any agreement he offers to make - the crime he committed was breaching an oath. Plus, he has repeatedly said that he no longer has the information he stole in his possession.
The US government will spin this as a leak of delicate secret documents. Whereas Snowden made a distinction between actions taken by government agencies that violated US citizens' constitutional rights and other state secrets that may put an agent's life in danger. It is the former that he outed while trying to mitigate the risks of the latter. However, the US government will say that Snowden is not one to distinguish the former from the latter. Moreover, they have no guarantee that more delicate state secrets were not compromised. They just have Snowden's word to go on. As such, the US government will throw the book at him. His position was to follow orders, not question them. Obama pretty much reiterated this. Agreeing or disagreeing with what Snowden did is incidental, the US will still stick to their policies and will mete out punishment accordingly. Also, they will set an example with Snowden as a deterrent to other would be leakers/whistleblowers.
"SO we bide our time, waiting for a purer kick to bloom and the future is still bleak, uncertain and beautiful" -GSYBE
He's leaked a lot of things. So even if the jury agreed that some of it was justified, a situation where the public's need to know outweighed his promise to keep it secret, they could rule that on other things that wasn't the case. It isn't the sort of thing that would have to be taken as part and parcel.
As you said though, even in cases that people feel are justified, he still might be held guilty. The agreement regarding classified information you undertake doesn't have exemptions, it doesn't say "You agree to keep this secret unless you think the public needs to know," it is pretty cut and dried. So even if the jury believes he did the right thing, they very well could find him guilty because he still broke the law.
One would have to throw out the entire case for him to win. That is not going to happen.
He will have to accept some US-side loss in the long run; it is better that it is delivered judicially than extrajudicially by the US or Russia.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
...that a US citizen can commit. It is seen as a worse crime than crimes against humanity by the US administration.
What we have is the power elite doing everything they can to plug the leaky dyke that is information about their political sway and behaviour from becoming public, and that the US government is there to govern US citizens, rather than govern for US citizens.
All the western countries are under that same control (just check the list of Bilderberg attendees) - and this fight in the US has ramifications to the rest of us 'free' westerners.
can you imagine what his legal fees are going to be?
Snowden I love you man but don't even think about it.
The only thing awaiting you here in the US is spending forever in jail while some other much less deserving dude ends up with your girl who cares enough about you to move to Russia to be with you.
Russia *is* a bastion of freedom compared to wasting away in a cell in the US.
What the fuck does Germany have to do with the whole deal?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
He wants to come to the US to test his theory that the US people will find him not guilty, thus symbolically crashing the party of the entire surveillance state.
That's a noble reason, but it's going to take more than just one leaker/protestor/activist going up on charges to do that.
As it is now, the FUD machine is likely to drown out his nobility and he'll be sent to the pen for life.
If he really thinks he would win... come to the US.
But don't risk a good life in Russia over it.
Wow, okay, very, very, very BAD idea Snowden. If he's lucky, he'll end up in prison for the rest of his life, or if unlucky be assassinated fairly quickly. I live in the US and am trying to get out of this shit hole someday. Why would anyone, especially him, want to come back to this place? Just wow.
Way to be grateful to your host.
Guess snowden loves feminism so much he needs to come home.
Russia doesn't have enough of the SJW shit he loves.
What kind a man shacks up with a stripper whore.
Men like Hans Reiser kill women who whore out on them (as commanded in the old testament). Men like snowden shack up with them :/
So, if you signed a contract to join the military and you're ordered to kill innocent civilians you have to do it because you signed a contract? What baloney!
Whether you think Snowden is a hero or a traitor, I'd say the best political move Obama could make would be to pardon Snowden for any crimes he is accused of committing to date.
It would effectively silence Snowden as he could come home with the pardon in his pocket, assuming he keeps his mouth shut forever after. If Snowden continued leaks, then Snowden would be easy to turn into the bad guy
It would avoid a public trial (which would be awkward, assuming the government would even grant one).
It would avoid accusations of injustice (in case the trial was a secret one in Gitmo, or an unfortunate 'accident' occurred on his flight home).
Obama should do this after the 2016 election before he leaves office, as the hubbub will settle out and be forgotten by the 2018 midterm election. It would not satisfy Snowden's supporters (who think he should get a ticker tape parade) or his detractors (who think he should be imprisoned forever), but it would effectively halt the leaks and put the problem to bed with a minimum of fuss.
Left MS Windows for Linux Mint and never looked back!
Vote for Bernie in 2016!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I think it would be a real statement as to his integrity if he was willing to submit himself to the jurisdiction of the US Court system in this matter.
Dear firing squad, please aim for the belly, it will take him longer to die.
He was a soviet spy - folks - pure and simple.
Why is this modded down? It makes fucking sense.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
.... is to elect Charlie Sheen President! http://draft-sheen-in-2016.org
Yeah, taken to a US Embassy, hauled off to gitmo for 5 years after which he'll announce that he wants to chop off his dong and be referred to as "Edwina." It's not like we haven't seen that happen before...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
They want to post Snowden's photo in the hallways of the Pentagon and CIA, right next to Aldrich Ames and General Petraeus.
Snowden needs the protection of a first-rate security apparatus against covert kidnappers. Not many countries actually have that.
So yerah, stay where you are, torture awaits you in America. c.f. Manning.
Who else remembers, back in the day, when whistleblowers used to escape from Russia and seek political asylum in the USA?
I feel old.
Never trust a man in a blue trench coat, Never drive a car when you're dead
Snowden, read Richard Tomlinson, ex SIS.
He was locked up with murderers in the filthiest British jail. For writing a book about his work.
They almost killed him by telling French police he was a "terrorist". Had they actually acted upon this,
Tomlinson would have woken up with a bullet in the head.
Snowden is a very intelligent individual.
Right so intelligent that he unwittingly played a part in Putin's propaganda TV show.
You sound like one of these officers who could not drown an Austrian.
Russia wont damage their reputation as a place of asylm.
Land Of The Free Prison(TM)
What Snowden wants:
1. A fair trial
2. To be covered under the whistleblower act.
3. The United States of America to change it's policies to respect it's own citizens.
What the United States Government wants:
1. Make a bigger example out him than Bradley (Chelsea) Manning.
Can you really trust Snowden? How can just a simple employee steal such important data without triggering an alarm?
He can portray himself as a hero, but is he truly a hero? How did he stumble onto that data? Was it just there in a map “CLASSIFIED” or did he had to hack his way to get to the data?
He then went to China and Russia with data he stole from the US government. Those don't seem to be countries that don't have any use for important information about American security.
Apparently he was not just a simple employee, he was working for counterintelligence himself. He was smart enough to know that a country like the US could spy on everything it wants before he joined the counterintelligence forces.
And all of the sudden the person responsible for securing computer networks against Chinese and probably Russian hackers, ends up in China and Russia with 'leaked data'. He uses this leaked data to give him an aura of heroism. He opened the eyes of the American people, and the US should be grateful for making the US a better place.
But yet he is still a network specialist, who had been working on securing NSA's network, who ends up living under the 'protection' of Putin?
Well, call me naive, or a believer in conspiracy theories, but I don't trust him.
There are two side of Snowden, the true American hero and someone who has worked for the counterintelligence of the NSA. While he was working for the NSA, he was collecting information that was not for his eyes. You know when you work for the NSA, that the NSA is a spying agency and that one of their purposes is to spy on people. Why do you all of the sudden get angry with them when you discover they are spying? It's not like anyone with his expertise would think the NSA didn't spy on such a large scale, or was he not that smart after all?
He did not just disclose information, he first evaluated information before releasing it to journalists. But what with the information that would make a big impact? Did he tell Putin that he would not give this information to him, and Putin answered with: “Ow, what a shame, I would have been glad with this information, but it's your call”?
My naive gut feeling tells me that it didn't go that way.
Now there are two theories in my mind. The first is that Snowden is just a spy for China and Russia, and selectively releases data to journalists to give him a more hero status.
The second is that Snowden is just a spy for the US, and 'fled' to China and Russia with 'important' data. Or data that the US wants China and Russia to find, misinformation.
Of course it is entirely possible that he was just an employee who ended up discovering that the NSA did mass surveillance on the entire population of multiple countries. He did not like it, got angry with the NSA, stole data, waited for Obama to see if things went better. Saw that Obama just continued with the mass surveillance. Got even more angry and fled to China after ensuring he had copied enough data to have valuable enough data to leak to journalists. He ended up in Russia after his home country had forsaken him.
"You will have a fair trial. After which, you will be shot."
The Nazi's that run America will have your balls on a platter
As others said, there's not necessarily a guarantee Russia wouldn't decide to use Snowden as a bargaining chip or sorts, turning him over to the U.S. govt. at a very inopportune time for him to get any hope of justice. Surely, that's in the back of his head as at least a lingering possibility?
Also, he has quite a bit of support in the U.S. from people who think he's a hero, not a criminal. (Not everyone makes the front cover of Wired magazine, covered in a positive way.) Our current folks in political office may not care for him -- but *if* he could negotiate a high profile trial here, at least there would be a LOT of eyeballs watching, concerned that he received a fair outcome.
I'm positive he'd instantly find work in the private sector too, doing infosec of some sort.
Obama's hatrad of Caucasians is Legendary.
This would be a very very bad timing if Snowden really wants to be placed on trial for treason and high crimes and misdemeanors in the "beloved", sniff sniff, USA.
Moscow is safe territory.
Israel will go to WAR against Obama and Kerry, read White House and State Department, when Kerry sign the DEAL.
Netanyahu's message to the USA Congress was, paraphrase, sign the "DEAL" with Iran and WE will ATTACK.
Who will Israel Attack?
The USA Signers of the "DEAL" Barak Hussein Obama and John Kerry; I.E. assignation.
That is Netanyahu's "Nightmare" !
And that nightmare will be followed up by a thermo nuclear attach targeting Washington D.C. and Tehran.
Beautiful.
The real enemies of the world are targeted for extinction.
He could also insist on no bond requirement, no pre-trial incarceration. If he's coming back voluntarily, they're pretty much irrelevant.
That's what's fucked over every whisteblower from Manning to Kiriakou: they aren't allowed to argue in court that their actions were justified.
We care about you, Ed. Stay where you are. It's OK to be lonely or homesick but you'll get over it.
Put Snowden in charge of the NSA for 20 years; I can really think of no better punishment. At this point, GITMO looks like a day spa.
He would probably like whistleblower status for everything, ignoring the parts of classified documents he released which were sensitive but not necessary ...
That, actually, is what the press is for -- why its considered the Fourth Estate -- and why sources like Manning and Snowden seek out journalists who can collaborate on the task of picking out relevant info. No individual is up to the task of assessing on a word-for-word basis the mountains of documents relating to equally mountainous government misdeeds.
So you are applying a standard to whistleblowers that reflects the US government's bias, and then claiming it was Snowden and not the government that did the damage!
Snowden's last view will either be through very old mans eyes past a set of bars, or a young man's eyes as the bullet causes the view to blur and fade. The US might not try to take Snowden out like Putin took out Boris Nemtsov, but they sure don't mind locking those they consider traitors behind bars and essentially welding the lock shut, and bricking the bars in. Considering what the NSA has done to really loyal people like Thomas Drake, Snowden should expect the intelligence community to suggest a "Boris". And given the group's recent history, more than just a few willing to go 'out of band' and take a shot at it (literally) themselves.
"Considering how frequently, blatantly, and deliberately the US government has lied..."
The U.S. government is EXTREMELY corrupt in many areas, not just in this situation. A few areas of corruption:
Finance: in 2008, banks were allowed to steal from taxpayers. Bank managers were rewarded with extremely high pay: The Divide. "New York Times bestseller -- Named one of the best books of the year by the Washington Post, NPR, and Kirkus Reviews".
Health care: The new health care system will further bankrupt the country. The ACA, Affordable Care Act, is NOT affordable. The ACA benefits everyone but the citizens. #1 Best Seller: America's Bitter Pill: Money, Politics, Back-Room Deals, and the Fight to Fix Our Broken Healthcare System.
Prison system: The U.S. has the largest percentage of its citizens in prison, of any country, in any century. The prison system is hugely profitable for prison corporations. ACLU: With only 5% of the world's population, the U.S. has 25% of the world's prison population. ThinkProgress: The United States Has The Largest Prison Population In The World -- And It's Growing.
Violence: The U.S. government has killed, or caused the death of, an estimated 11,000,000 people since the end of the 2nd world war. War is extremely profitable for some corporations: House of Bush, House of Saud by Craig Unger. Bush and Cheney started a war that was profitable for them.
Obama could do something right and give him a presidential pardon..
on the condition that he is given a guarantee of a legal and impartial trial. The lawyer said Snowden had so far only received a guarantee from the U.S. Attorney General that he will not face the death penalty.
So this low the things have gone. Perhaps it's time for the all concerned parties to create a new republic over the steaming pile of lawlessness the previous seems to suffer from (the French are on their fifth, after all) , or start taking their anti paranoia and psychosis medicine regularly, or hone their communication strategies to engulf the citizens into warm, trusting feeling about the government. See? I covered all bases.
Why doesn't some European nation offer him asylum? Are they really that scared of retaliations by the U.S. government?
Is there a man's country anywhere in the world anymore? Where a european type man can marry a european type female child? Or is the whole world a feminist sinkhole.
Russia? The middle-east? Africa?
Since you're AC I guess you won't read this but whatever.
Here in "my city" Örebro they have "always" claimed that they plow the cycle (and pedestrian?) parts of the road first and for cars later. In my opinion that haven't been done but that's the claim. And I've guess that was because they felt being able to bicycle was important and possibly because it's also unprotected people.
However the current ruler-ship have decided to "genus plow" the streets which supposedly mean exactly the same thing! But what is news to me but supposedly the case is that only women ride a bike and only men drive a car, so it's unfair to prioritize the men (I didn't knew it was a local idea what to start with here) and but it's not to prioritize women so hence bicycle lanes should be cleared up first.
One of the two (one male one female) leader of the Swedish environmentalist party which possibly is behind the stuff above is also the leading force for the mass-immigration, well-fare for anyone, abandoning of law & order, borders and likely nationality too. They don't get many votes (about 7%) and they rule the government in minority with the social democrats (for a total of less than 38%) but those two together think it's very important to be possible to rule in a minority because none of the "non-racist" parties can come up with a majority government together and to have disputes, do sacrifices and come up with majority decisions in a parliament is so horrible. The "racist" party is likely ok to rule with anyone to get influence but that won't do it because the they are just as racist as the rest of the world.
Other "fresh" initiatives is that while sex is a social construction it's very important to see what sex is at what working places and in what positions and who's staying home with the children.
And while it's totally unimportant and irrelevant that immigrants commit more crimes, rape, terrorist travels, fail school and such it's very important to see whatever they too reach the same positions in society!
Because individuality doesn't matter. Only sex and race do for the anti-sexist and anti-racists.. Well, as long as it's about positive discrimination for those who can't pass on their own merits. However it's totally not relevant when the outcome would relate to anything negative for a "minority group" (a group individuals supposedly given a group belonging due to ethnicity, sex and religion.)
I guess in my world it's just affirmative action and censorship and positive discrimination.
I'm against discrimination but I'm just fine with women picking medicinal research over technological and the fact that people from Somalia have less competitive work experience and education than the native born people.
If this man thinks it's even possible for him to get a fair and impartial trial, then the Russian cold must be getting to his head. Everybody in the United States has already chosen sides with or against him. I would challenge anybody here to seek out even a single conversation that isn't wrapped in such strong bias that it results in hailing him as a hero or calling him a traitor.
This is all aside from the fact that he embarrassed the government and that revealing their actions has harmed diplomacy and economy. Citizens don't even get fair trials here when accused of something inconsequential. I'm not even sure it would be possible to buy that man a fair trial at any price.
Please don't do that Edward. I understand you miss your family but there is no way you'll get a fair trial and they'll not let you see your loved ones either.
Hawaii was great, so was your bartender girl friend and the money. But it's gone now.
Actually, the girlfriend moved to Russia to be with him.
Subject line says it all. Snowdon, you can't get a fair trial. You have to burn your bridges. It is unfortunate. If you want marriage and children, and the pleasures of raising a family, you cannot return. By the time you are on parole (if ever), you will be too old. And if you think you will not be kept in solitary, think again. And wait for an inmate to take a knife to you.
Latin America is a place to head to. They are understanding and recognize that you did not murder anyone. You can get a good job there, and the timezone is not more than one or two hours difference.
And lets face it. The hackers, terrorists, and all the bad guys have known about encription and monitoring from today -7200 or from the end of the first world war.
All you did was let the public know, and we are grateful. Our financial transactions and our bank accounts are not going to be hacked, because industry now knows that NSA is prying everywhere. If NSA is doing it, criminals are also doing it.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
he doesn't have the documents.
Do you really believe this ? He may not have physical media with him but an encrypted blob hidden in various online file stores is just as good.
No, what he has done is save some more data and arrange for it to be released on his death. Otherwise he would be dead already.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Don't worry, he won't. And this story (like so much of /.) is "hyping empty garbage" (what Glenn Greenwald called Politicoâ(TM)s digital editorial director Blake Hounshell, but applies quite well here). Greenwald explains it all excellently, as per usual.
Digital Citizen
A lawyer can't stop you getting picked off en route. Duh.
"If there is a country that has committed unspeakable atrocities in the world, it is the USA. They don't care." --Nelson Mandela
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/nelson-mandela-iraq-israel_b_4396638.html
Casteism
happening
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/03/04/snowden-wants-come-home-stories-case-study-media-deceit/
Luck, and pumping information to the FSB are the only things keeping him alive, trophy status being a side effect. Illegal disclosures from beyond the grave would only hurt the people doing them.
Do not expect that these deeds will go unpunished by subsequent administrations or that the odds will be in his unending favor.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
What? You're on crack.
Personally I hope he grabbed the NSA's files on all Congressmen, Judges, DNC and RNC commettee members, the Fortune 400 and members of the last 20 executive branches and their election opponents.
I think if he had that in the hands of 3 to 8 trusted individuals the CIA would have agents surrounding him ready to take a bullet. He'd be safer than the president.
There is no telling what he has in his real insurance file. No doubt it's not as good as I imagine. If he had that data he could walk through NSA headquarters kicking everybody he passed in the balls and have no fear.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Indiegogo campaign - https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-end-of-watching
I think if he had that in the hands of 3 to 8 trusted individuals the CIA would have agents surrounding him ready to take a bullet. He'd be safer than the president.
The more realistic scenario is that the individuals tasked with bringing him in or taking him (or any misguided "journalists") out would receive that kind of protection and more.
Perhaps some good citizens would be more than happy to call his bluff and ensure that national security gets taken seriously.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.