Massachusetts Boarding School Sued Over Wi-Fi Sickness

alphadogg writes: The parents of an anonymous student at the Fay School in Southborough, Mass., allege that the Wi-Fi at the institution is making their child sick, according to a lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court earlier this month (PDF). The child, identified only as "G" in court documents, is said to suffer from electromagnetic hypersensitivity syndrome. The radio waves emitted by the school's Wi-Fi routers cause G serious discomfort and physical harm, according to the suit. "After being continually denied access to the school in order to test their student's classroom, and having their request that all classrooms in which their child is present have the WiFi network replaced with a hard-wired Ethernet denied, the parents sued under the Americans with Disabilities Act."

Comments

What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean, they should have some kind of proof that the Wi-Fi is the reason, right?

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[fredgiblet]

As far as I've heard so far there's been no proof to back it up.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Austerity Empowers]

Well, if I stand outside in the hot texas sun for over half an hour, I do develop a bad skin rash that burns, itches and stings for a day or so. Sometimes it's also accompanied by nausea and lethargy. I suppose I have EHS!

Of course doctors don't diagnose me properly, instead they ask me to apply this skin lotion before hand, and warn me if I keep going out without it I may get cancer. I have tried to sue the sun, and have asked it to turn itself down, but it never complies for more than 12 hours a time, frequently less.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[kheldan]

Bring in a portable faraday cage and have him sit in it. If he still develops symptoms then it's something else. I'll bet it's something environmental, like what they use to clean with, or something in the ventilation system. Or maybe the kid just doesn't want to go to school and has his parents totally foxed. Wouldn't be the first or last time that happened.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Easy way to win the Amazing Randi's million dollar challenge for supernatural powers. If you get sick when they turn the wi-fi on and feel better when they turn it off, you have the ability to detect 2.4GHz radiation with your body.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[blue9steel]

Bring in a portable faraday cage and have him sit in it.

Sounds like reasonable accomodation to me, problem solved.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[laurencetux]

has anybody actually studied an average of a given area with and without wifi running??

i would bet that wifi is basically a rounding error given how many sources you have running (beginning with that big ball of fusion of course)

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Greyfox]

It's probably just asbestos.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Zalbik]

Unfortunately, they have the backing of this guy who is on some sort of crusade to protect humans and wildlife from those oh so dangerous invisible EMF rays.

Even more unfortunately, he appears to be a bright guy with fairly well established credentials.

The problem is (and this is sometimes overlooked by judges) smart people can be:
a) wrong
b) crazy
c) lying

In this case I think it's (a) with a healthy dose of (b) mixed in.

Hopefully the judge takes stock of the numerous double blind studies where it has been shown that EMF "sufferers" symptoms disappeared when they were unaware of the presence of EMF radiation

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[AK Marc]

A mental illness is still an illness. So the ADA would still apply.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[tsnow]

In America, all you need is a gut feeling and a lawyer, and you can litigate anything!

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Firethorn]

There have been double-blind tests performed, but the subjects were quite upset when they learned that apparently it wasn't the wifi signals making them sick, but the blinking lights on the wireless devices.

IE lights disabled, radios fully enabled, on highest power, transmitting data: No symptoms.
Simulated status light activity, radios completely disabled and unpowered: symptoms.
Lights & radio on : symptoms
Lights & radio disabled: no symptoms.

Conclusion: Clearly we need to investigate the status lights. ;)

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

In San Diego, there's a disabled lawyer that drives around gathering addresses for ADA lawsuits. He doesn't even go in the business, he just files frivolous lawsuits that get paid because it's cheaper to settle out of court.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[macraig]

That only works if he doesn't know that he's sitting in a Faraday cage. Otherwise the kid would simply subconsciously - or consciously - fake symptoms just to fulfill the prophesy declared by his parents. He can't know the Faraday cage is there, else you'd never be able to rule out WiFi RF and narrow it to "something [else] environmental".

So... give him an astronaut suit to wear for a day and tell him it's a reward for good grades or something.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would they need proof when what those xians believe requires you to not understand science or logic. It is a requirement for their kind. That is why they're so ignorant and racist. So racist. That is why they do these things. Those xian Republicans are destroying this country.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[flopsquad]

Bring in a portable faraday cage and have him sit in it.

Sounds like reasonable accomodation to me, problem solved.

"Thus arose, in the early 20's, a small subculture of spherically encased children known as 'Faraday Hamsters.'

Enabled by a 2017 Supreme Court interpretation of the Americans With Disabilities Act, these 'Faraday Hamsters' could frequently be seen running their electromagnetically impervious cages down school hallways along special troughs--evocative of the famous boulder chase scene in the 20th century classic, Raiders of the Lost Ark."

--Collected Histories of the Twenty-First Century

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[mark-t]

Everything about the studies that have been done points to the condition being psychosomatic. While psychosomatic symptoms can still be extremely debilitating for the sufferer, even going so far as to produce objectively measurable effects on the person's body and metabolism, should psychosomatic conditions be the school board's problem?

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Have the shielding in the suit be switchable: Shielded/Non-shielded. Or put him in a cage and switch it on & off.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Khyber]

" If he still develops symptoms then it's something else."

Yea, the student is full of shit and trying to get out of school.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[alannon]

Sure, but imagine a kid as agoraphobia and can't stand being in the open air. Is it reasonable for the parents to expect the school to put the football field inside of a building so the kid can be on the team? Also there is absolutely no evidence that EHS itself exists, which is what the parents claim. The child would be better off if the parents admitted that it was a psychiatric disorder and started getting the kid treatment for it. The ADA has limits on what accommodations an employer, or school has to make for somebody disabled. My understanding is they tend to be limited to making spaces mobility-accessible and ergonomic accommodations to their personal workspace/desk and not wide-ranging changes to the work environment to accommodate a severe psychological disorder.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Darinbob]

This is a California thing in general. There are some additional California rules that go beyond ADA requirements that tend to be abused. There is essentially no enforcement though, except by roving bands of lawyers who threaten to sue people. This is by design because it is cheaper than hiring regulators paid by the state (and it's also Republican friendly to have private enterprise suing people). It's cheaper to pay off the lawyer than to go to court and get an exemption or time extension or clarification of the rules.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[macraig]

Works for me! I was kidding about the spacesuit, though.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[macraig]

Although... then they just wind up claiming the symptoms have delayed onset or something else ridiculous.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[makapuf]

Interesting, do you have a source ? (Aka citation needed).
I'm genuinely interested in getting such kind of study result. Of course the real subject is long term exposure effects of radio microwaves. For which I'm not sure many results (scientific ones) exist. And incidentally I'm going to install Ethernet plugs in our sons school next week to avoid this - not for me but by other parents demand (which I think will bring more reliable connectivity - win win )

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Darinbob]

Last I checked, the RF allergy believers tend to be from very liberal areas. For instance, complaints about smart electric meters on forums from people in conservative parts of California tended to be about unreasonable increases in rates or government intrusion, but from people in liberal parts complained about RF exposure and headaches the same time every night.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[R3d M3rcury]

Not sure on that. Remember that ADA concerns disabilities, not illnesses. Since it's the government, I'd be surprised if a list of disabilities isn't somehow defined and that you can't just claim something as a "disability."

For example, if I have Metallophobia (fear of metal), the company does not have to remove all metal from my surroundings.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Except if he is making this up he can all of a sudden "get better" when placed inside Faraday's cage. Thus we would have to put him in one and tell him this is to help monitor his symptoms, so he keeps making them up thus proving himself a fuckin liar, or at very least proving he is sickened by something else.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

LMGTFY: http://www.who.int/peh-emf/publications/facts/fs296/en/

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed. Instead of suing to have the entire world padded to protect their special snowflake, why don't they just take the kid out of the school? Home schooling is quite acceptable these days. Oh wait. This was a boarding school. That means they don't want their kid around so they don't have to be parents. Can bad parenting be considered a disability?

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[kheldan]

OK, true enough. So we provide him with a fake Faraday cage, that doesn't keep anything out. If he magically gets better then you reveal it's a fake and that he's suffering from imaginary symptoms. Or that he's just trying to get out of going to school.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[viperidaenz]

Give him a portable faraday cage made out of plastic
If it solves the problems, it was psychosomatic.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[bws111]

What kind of double blind test is that? It seems deliberately misleading, which would seem to me to be the opposite of a blind test.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Gavagai80]

I can believe that. The light on my computer monitor is so annoying that I had to tape over it, and my router blinking all the time is pretty annoying too.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Dunbal]

There is proof however that people who claim to have "electromagnetic hypersensitivity" mysteriously cannot explain why they can get "sick" even when the source of electromagnetic radiation is turned off. Apparently the mere sight of a router/electrical transformer/pylon is enough to make them "sick".

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Dunbal]

Good thing that medical diagnoses are never based on subjective symptoms but rather objective signs. Courts, juries and lawyers do not have a license to practice medicine and should remember that.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

In this case, it isn't even a school board, it's a private school's admin, so it is likely to be even less their problem. A public school district is legally obligated to deal with basically whatever the residents of the area spawn; either in-house or by paying for an appropriate specialist placement(I think that kiddo going to jail makes him not their problem anymore; but if so that's about it).

A private school has no particular obligation to deal with anyone in particular; so long as they don't explicitly step on some protected class or (as is being argued in this case) fail to make reasonable accommodation per the ADA.

If it were a public school, it would be the school's problem, just as they have to make provision for the education of any other sickie(mental or physical); but for the private school to be obligated; it has to be demonstrated that kiddo has a 'disability' for ADA purposes, that they are capable of performing if provided with 'reasonable accommodation', and that the 'reasonable accommodation' would not cause 'undue hardship' for the entity being asked to provide it.

I'd be interested to know how the meaning of those terms would be decided in this case. Fay is a pretty fancy school, east coast private boarding school with history dating back before 1900 and its own endowment and all; but even if that mitigates any argument about the financial impact of having to hardwire everything, it might well be argued that, say, making it impossible for anyone in this kid's class to do an ipad-related curriculum activity would impose excessive limitations on their ability to learn, and the school to teach, as it usually does. If the school were purely doing wireless because it was cheaper, they might have issues; but today wireless devices are used routinely in situations where hardwired stuff would never have been considered practical; plus(unlike an accommodation that requires adding something, like a braille copy of the textbook or the like, the accomodation here demanded requires depriving everyone in the student's proximity of any use of wifi devices, or segregating the student, neither of which are likely to go over all that well.)

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[linear a]

In America, all you need is a gut feeling and a lawyer, and you can litigate anything!

And last *I* checked, the gut feeling isn't required.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Trogre]

Citation, please. If genuine, this study needs to be cited every time this issue comes up.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Immerman]

Hell, you don't even need the gut feeling. Or the lawyer.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[henni16]

post to remove accidental moderation - effing Javascript autosubmit boxes

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[danomac]

So you mean the student has to sit in a corner with a tinfoil hat on? I don't think the parents will like that...

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's exactly what double blind means. You don't tell the subjects whether they're in the active, placebo, or control groups.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

For ADA purposes, the limitations imposed by the effects of an illness, or the treatment requirements of one, count as 'disabilities'(eg. unless you can prove that it would cause 'undue hardship', you would need to allow a diabetic some breaks to test blood sugar and administer insulin, if needed).

You do have to have a disability, and you can't just self-diagnose(it would be interesting to see what the court thinks of the quack who did the diagnosing in this case); but the law covers basically any functional impairment, if it can be overcome with a 'reasonable accommodation' and without 'undue hardship'. A limb stump or guide dog makes things nice and obvious; but any medical issue potentially qualifies if it has functional impact.

I suspect that if the school is just running wifi to save on cabling costs and to allow students and staff to screw around on their phones; they might have an ADA problem. Not because kiddo is actually sensitive to 802.11-compliant microwave chatter; but because kiddo has some sort of actual psych issue that can be mitigated just by turning some APs off.

However, if the school has introduced assorted mobile devices into their curriculum(which wouldn't be a surprise, ipads are a huge craze in education, and Fay certainly has the cash for it); the case might really hit the rocks on 'undue hardship' because the accommodation would require forcing the school to use a less-optimal curriculum, without any devices that cannot be hardwired or situations where hardwired devices aren't practical, for all the students who share a class with this kid(and, unless their IT office is good at toggling POE ports, potentially all students who share a classroom with this kid). That's the sort of disruption of how things are done that goes beyond mere money or inconvenience. It also(unlike added aids, braille texts, audio amplification, screen readers, magnification devices, and so on) isn't something that you can just get the affected kid, it's something you have to take away from everyone else.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Nemyst]

A double-blind test only ensures that the researchers and the subjects are not aware of any information that may affect their actions during the test. What is being tested has no impact on whether something is double-blind or not, and likewise for revealing that information after the test.

That test is on the contrary quite revealing, since it correctly decorrelates radio signals from symptoms, thus refuting the hypothesis that radio signals are responsible for the symptoms.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[thegarbz]

A mental illness is still an illness. So the ADA would still apply.

Yes but what should the school do about it? Screw everyone else because they have one disabled child? Or provide a facility for the disabled child to work within the system.

I say we put the kid in a cage.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[jrumney]

Science says that it is time they upgraded the mother to N. Or skip N and go directly to AC.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Double blind" in this experiment would mean neither the subjects nor the observers would know whether the radio was on or off. Clearly everyone would know whether the lights were on or not. And yeah, one one level it's trying to mislead people to see whether it's the radio or their perception of the radio which is causing the problem. I doubt anyone is suggesting blinking LEDs actually cause the problem (dear God, I hope not).

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[tompaulco]

Can bad parenting be considered a disability?

In today's society? Absolutely. You can get away with all kinds of criminal activity just by claiming poor home life or being bullied when you were a kid.
Pretty much every body has this excuse because it usually takes about 25 years before the average person learns how to be a good parent.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[tompaulco]

A mental illness is still an illness. So the ADA would still apply.

Yes but what should the school do about it? Screw everyone else because they have one disabled child? Or provide a facility for the disabled child to work within the system.

I say we put the kid in a cage.

Well, I know that in public schools they will compromise the health of the rest of the student body by removing healthy nuts from the menu due to one child's allergy, so I would not be surprised if they required the school to hardwire every classroom. Kind of sucks for tablets and phones though.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[tinkerghost]

I doubt anyone is suggesting blinking LEDs actually cause the problem (dear God, I hope not).

actually, blinking lights have long been proven to give people headaches & even seizures - but that's not the issue under discussion as those are epileptic in nature.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[tompaulco]

This is a California thing in general. There are some additional California rules that go beyond ADA requirements that tend to be abused. There is essentially no enforcement though, except by roving bands of lawyers who threaten to sue people. This is by design because it is cheaper than hiring regulators paid by the state (and it's also Republican friendly to have private enterprise suing people). It's cheaper to pay off the lawyer than to go to court and get an exemption or time extension or clarification of the rules.

This happens in Oklahoma City, too. When business gets slow, painting companies will drive around looking for houses that need paint and report them to the city, then within a couple of days of the notices getting sent out, this company goes door to door seeing if they would like their house painted.

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

I get headaches around those people. Maybe they're just giving themselves headaches by being around themselves.

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is hilarious. Bravo.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

It might be cheaper to pay off one lawyer, but what about 10? 100? Over 9,000?

That's why I don't understand why anyone would choose to settle out of court in these instances. You didn't fix the alleged problem, so there's nothing to keep someone else from trying the same damn thing for the same damn reason. Right?

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Trogre]

That does not cite the study mentioned by the GP.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[kheldan]

It seems to me that more and more people are exhibiting symptoms of being allergic to modern life and all its complexities, technology very much included. But in this case I'm thinking more and more that it's just the kid not wanting to go to school, so he latched on to this mysterious ailment (that he probably read about on the internet) and is playing it for all it's worth. His parents, being totally incapable of conceiving on their precious little snowflake actually faking anything like this, is going Great Guns over it. Or, perhaps, they're scumbags and are trying to cash in through litigation on something they sold their kid on. Either way: Occams' Razor.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean, they should have some kind of proof that the Wi-Fi is the reason, right?

Science basically says it's all bogus. Tests have been done and prove that it is either pretty much psychological, or people are deliberately faking in order to get "special privileges". Even TFA admits it's bogus:

G’s syndrome, often referred to as EHS, is a controversial one in the scientific world – studies have consistently showed that sufferers don’t directly react to the presence of electromagnetic fields, but their symptoms persist. While G was diagnosed with EHS by a doctor – a fact that underpins much of the case – the syndrome isn’t generally recognized among the broader medical community.

A couple of miles from here there is a large radio mast. Often when someone moves into the nearby apartment building they complain to the city and claim the radio transmissions are making them sick ... even though there hasn't actually been a transmitter there for a decade or more.

The child could actually be getting sick, but it is not the WiFi that is causing it.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it's pretty amazing what you can do with a couple inches of electrical tape.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[bws111]

I disagree. There is no reason at all to show lights if what you are really testing is sensitivity to radio signals. It is well known that humans are susceptible to suggestion. You can make people feel itchy by showing them pictures of mosquitos. You can make people feel warm by showing a rising thermometer. You can make people misidentify the taste of food by coloring it. Do those tests refute the fact that people can sense touch, temperature, or taste? Of course not.

Now, I don't believe at all that people can detect radio signals. But, demonstrating that by what amounts to parlor tricks is not going to convince anyone who does not already believe. A real test would not provide any misleading clues.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's probably just Polonium.

FTFY.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

I love it!

On the other hand, if it is demonstrated that their symptoms do not change after being enclosed in the faraday cage, the student has to pay for it AND for the nuisance their lawsuit brought.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Firethorn]

Well, here's one - Note "sham".
and another.

The study I'm remembering was slightly different, but I'm being drowned out by different studies.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[bws111]

The whole reason there is a placebo group is precisely because we know the human brain is susceptible to suggestion. In an experiment like this, there is no reason at all to provide that suggestion.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't feel like googling, so, thanks :p

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

The closest thing so far is a WIFI router manufacturer in China that makes routers safe for pregnant women.

But even then, the CEO said it was just a suggestion with no scientific backing.

For a good laugh, here:
http://www.networkworld.com/article/2940683/opensource-subnet/wi-fi-routers-pregnant-women-setting-sparks-vendor-rivalry-in-china.html

"We are targeting people who are afraid of radiation. We aren't scientists. We haven't done many experiments to prove how much damage the radiation from Wi-Fi can cause. We leave the right of choice to our customers."

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Firethorn]

To expand upon this, in a 'double blind' test, not even those with any contact with the test subjects know whether they're administering the real thing or a placebo. IE those handing out the pills and recording any symptoms don't know. This prevents even more contamination, because the doctor can act differently if he knows which pills he's handing out, and influence the patients that way.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Double-blind" testing methodology means that for a given instance of testing, neither the test administrator nor the test subject knows the parameters of the test. Only upon looking at the records of which instance had which parameters after-the-fact will either of them know. This is to prevent the test administrator from having a personal "tell" (like in poker) taint the test results by giving the subject an extra clue to determine which parameters are in use.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Firethorn]

I disagree. There is no reason at all to show lights if what you are really testing is sensitivity to radio signals.

As the famous 'experiment' down in South Africa showed, where the cell phone tower operators shut the tower off six weeks before a meeting about turning the tower off, where people were STILL expressing the same symptoms, how getting away from the tower decreased them, how it was the radiation from the tower giving them rashes and such, perception is a thing.

By having the lights be visible, it allowed the study to not just test radio sensitivity, it allowed them to test perception of radio sensitivity.

The test essentially showed that the people were getting sick when they thought they were being bombarded with radio waves, not when they were actually being bombarded.

A real test would not provide any misleading clues.

They tested that as well. They had 4 different tests - Radio & lights, Radio & dark, No Radio &lights, No Radio & dark. Symptoms tracked with the status lights on the test device, not the radio waves.

If people were sensitive, but also fooling themselves with the lights, more people would have shown something when the lights were dark but the radio was on.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Firethorn]

I've found that liquid electrical tape works pretty good as well. I've even used foil a couple times.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Facepalm. Lemme guess, you attended an American school system? Yeah, yet another shining example.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[BTWR]

Actually, Democrats are the lawsuit-friendly ones (John Edwards, etc). Republicans are insurance-company friendly.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[chihowa]

You've described a "blind" study. "Double blind" means that the testers don't know which subject is in which group until after the study.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[bws111]

But the South Africa test and this experiment are both strongly influenced by what the subjects thought. At most, that shows that the power of suggestion overrides any real effect. But that situation is not all that unusual - I gave some examples above.

Why would it not be a stronger experiment if there were no lights at all? Just put them in a room with an antenna and have them indicate when it is on or off. There is no reason to provides any other hints or clues, real or misleading, at all.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[bws111]

If people were sensitive, but also fooling themselves with the lights, more people would have shown something when the lights were dark but the radio was on.

I don't understand this. Why is the suggestion that the radio is off (dark lights) not as strong as the suggestion that the radio is on?

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Darinbob]

The rule is, it's an abuse of the system if the other side does it, but it's a constitutional right if your side does it.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's exactly what double blind means. You don't tell the subjects whether they're in the active, placebo, or control groups.

Ooops. You've just defined exactly what single blind means.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

There are a half a dozen studies that show this. The *belief* that there is radio causes the symptoms. The radio itself doesn't.

The same is true for a whole class action lawsuit that got started when a company put up a radio transmission tower in a neighborhood. A few people claimed they started getting sick around the time it went up and blamed the radio waves.

The company stalled for a year, to assess the situation. The people remained sick.

Then they showed up at court, conclusively proved that the transmitter was never even installed and there had never been any radio waves at all. The case was dismissed. The people got better.

Weird.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

My neighbor claimed Social Security Disability based purely on the fact that she was once in a bad relationship and therefore can no longer hold a job of any kind. So yes, I could see the ADA applying to mental deficiencies.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[bws111]

What an obnoxious asshole. Yes, I did attend an American school, and it taught me much more than whatever Dumbfuckian school you went to. You see, I learned not only what a blind experiment is, but WHY and HOW to conduct one.

The purpose of a blind experiment is to REMOVE biases and expectations. The only possible reason to have lights in the experiment is to EXPLOIT biases and expectations, the exact opposite of what should be done.

Now go crawl back under your rock.

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Better call Saul!

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[msobkow]

That could also be explained by the simple fact that their "symptoms" are all in their heads.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[TWX]

Sounds like they're allergic to going in to work.

I would like to see real studies on the effects of the EM spectrum, but such studies would be extremely hard to perform given both the lack of controls with everything else being equal, and given that the ramp-up of the use of radio in general has been slow and steady as opposed to instantly punctuated.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[mark-t]

To my understanding, the only treatment that currently exists for a psychosomatic condition is ignorance for the person who has the condition (that is, they are oblivious to the presence of what will trigger the physiological responses associated with the condition), or else to somehow convince them that their suffering is psychosomatic. Generally, the former is easier to achieve than the latter. Belief is a surprisingly powerful thing, it can affect a person's immune response, their hormone levels, their metabolism, and all kinds of other things that are easily externally measurable. Psychosomatic symptoms can be just as bad as symptoms caused by any actual external influence, and are no less real for the sufferer. The differentiating factor between a psychosomatic condition and a "real" one is what the person actually knows about, or what they (even subconsciously) believe to be true Simply being told that a condition is psychosomatic is sometimes, but usually not sufficient to negate the symptoms of a serious psychosomatic condition, typically because the pervasiveness of the suffering that may be endured by the condition overpowers what a person might otherwise be able to know to be true, and they can't be easily convinced that it's actually just all in their mind. Sometimes a person with such a condition might even try to admit that their condition is psychosomatic, but their suffering continues because of a discrepancy between what they can intellectually know in their head as opposed to what they genuinely believe.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[ememisya]

If I had the points, I would have modded you Informative my good sir.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

The purpose of a double blind experiment is to remove the possibility of the experimenter cluing in the subject as to the expected outcome.
The experimenter can't do this because he does not know what test is being done.
The subject and the experimenter are both blind to what is being done.
    Another experimenter, not in communication with the above 2 is in control of the experiment. hopefully using something random to choose what to try.

It seems to me that the experiment being performed was to see if the RF or the lights were causing the problem.
This seems a good experiment to test the hypothesis that the problem is psychological instead of physical.
The subjects may not have liked the test results, but the test seems clear and fair.
Perhaps the kid in the story should try such a test.
He might find out something more useful to his health than what he thinks.
    Or even better, we might all learn something really interesting about RF.

For this case, the questions seem
      who should decide safe RF levels (seems like a federal regulatory issue, not a lawsuit issue)
      what is a reasonable ADA accommodation? (putting the rest of the students in WiFi timeout seems over the line but I don't think that is the issue)

Many ADA accommodations are actually useful for the rest of us.
It would be unreasonable for an ADA accommodation to cause a major problem for everybody else.
Such an accommodation would be expected to ostracize the kid.
This seems the reverse of the intent of using ADA to mainstream kids in school.

This limits what the school can do to improve this situation.
Perhaps the school will make some minor AP adjustments and the kid's parents will declare success.

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet people on Slashdot collectively lean toward believing claims that fracking causes sickness by contaminating drinking water thousands of feet above the drill depth without so much as a blind study..

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

And so the people lighting their tap water faucet output on fire near the fracking must have some nifty pyrotechnics on hand instead?

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[C0R1D4N]

http://reason.com/archives/201...

Falsehood 1: You can light your tap water on fire. Fox made this claim famous in the first Gasland movie when he showed a resident of Colorado striking a match as water came out of his tap; the natural gas dissolved in the water burst into flame. Yet the water was tested by the Colorado Department of Natural Resources, which reported to the resident: "There are no indications of any oil & gas related impacts to your well water." The agency concluded that the natural gas in his water supply was derived from natural sources—the water well penetrated several coal beds that had released the methane into the well.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok. So, a 5GHz signal means wavelength of 3e10cm/s / 5e9Hz= 6cm. So, now you need to attenuate that by quite a lot to have effective nil signal. Normally, you'd want mesh, copper, to be have openings no larger than about 1/20th of this. So 6cm/20 = 3mm.

So you want a portable faraday cage with mesh about the size of a bug screen?

As for naysayers indicating that it is "impossible" to be sensitive to this frequency range, well, why not? There could be neurons in affected individuals that essentially act like antennas at these frequencies. And since many of these exposures are pulsed, instead of continuous (like TV or radio signals, for example), then that in itself has a much higher chance of a disruption.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

A mental illness is still an illness.

Not all of them. The day we must accept wi-fi sickness as real lest we offend the little snowflakes is closer than you think.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Jason Levine]

Bah, we don't need him to sit in a Faraday cage. I'll simply sell them my patent pending WiFi Sickness Rocks. Each rock absorbs the bad components of WiFi via a process called Eam Nihil Penitus Operari. By simply keeping the rock in his pocket, he can be guaranteed that WiFi signals won't cause him any physical harm. All for the low, low price of $19.95 (plus shipping and handling). Order now and I'll throw in my Vaccine Toxin Be Gone rock which removes anything in vaccines that causes autism simply by having it anywhere near your child when the kid gets his vaccines.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[yndrd1984]

Why would it not be a stronger experiment if there were no lights at all?

OK, you run that test and nobody feels ill, on or off. What does that prove? Not much - your signal could be too weak or the wrong frequency, or the room could be interfering, or it need to send data in bursts or cycles, or both the signal and the blinking lights are needed, or... On the other hand, if you can create the feeling of sickness using just lights and with lights and wifi you can be pretty sure that lights are the (indirect) cause - making those 'what ifs' more implausible.

Second, it also gives you a chance to catch non-wifi issues that are making people sick. What if the school's lack of proper ventilation, or an old chemical spill giving off fumes, or the hot plastic of the router creating VOCs really is making people ill? We can catch it now by proving that it's not just not wifi, but also not all in their heads, and start looking for other answers.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Jason Levine]

As someone who has fought with the public school system to get accommodations for my son (who has an actual medical diagnosis for a real condition), it takes more than the parents saying "Johnny gets sick around WiFi" before the school would be forced to turn off all WiFi. So even if this were a public school, they would have an uphill battle and would need to 1) demonstrate that their child really does react badly to WiFi signals and 2) show that there is a solution that can be reached which wouldn't overly impact the education of other students.

It's one thing if you accommodate a peanut allergy by banning peanut products in the school or give a child extra time on tests due to reading disorders. It's quite another if you say that all kids can't take advantage of educational opportunities because one child claims to be allergic to them (but doesn't have a medical diagnosis of any kind).

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Jason Levine]

It is easy to prove that nut allergies exist and some can be quite lethal. When my wife was teaching, she had a student who would have a severe allergic reaction if she picked up a pencil that had previously been handled by someone who ate a peanut butter sandwich. We're not talking "break out in hives" reaction either, but the "can't breathe, get an EpiPen or she'll die" kind of reaction. In cases like this, denying children nuts in school is a small price to pay.

So the question is: Can the parents prove - via a medically recognized procedure - that their child is actually allergic to WiFi? If so, not only will they win the right to ban all WiFi in the school, but they'll also upend countless studies showing that WiFi sickness doesn't exist. I wouldn't bet money on the parents being able to do this, though.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Firethorn]

Which is the reason for the wink smiley. ;)

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

> tend to be from very liberal areas

I'm from Framingham, not far from there, and I can assure you that area is very conservative. They voted for the Kennedy's generations. That makes them very conservative.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Firethorn]

Why would it not be a stronger experiment if there were no lights at all?

Let me ask this: What are you gaining by testing less?

There have been a number of experiments like you describe. By not telling them whether the wifi is active or not, you do indeed confound them enough that they can't just guess and fake the symptoms.

But as yndrd mentions, by having the lights as additional test groups, it can help zero in on whether it's psychosomatic in nature. And the evidence is that it IS, at least in part.

It also gives you the ability to differentiate between symptoms between two levels - when people think they're supposed to be sick, and when they think they aren't. If there was a minor difference when they think they're supposed to be, but not when they don't, you can detect it with the more detailed study.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[fredgiblet]

More likely the kid got legitimately sick at some point, the parents latched onto something they heard about on Facebook and things snowballed from there.

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

The gasland guy was in Pennsylvania not Colorado...so testing some water in CO seems irrelevant.

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's exactly what double blind means. You don't tell the subjects whether they're in the active, placebo, or control groups.

No, that is exactly what a blind study is. To be double blind, you do not even tell those who administer the test/medication.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[nbauman]

A simple tinfoil hat should work.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[davester666]

Triple blind is when the gov't kills everyone involved in the test.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

yes, we do. bright LEDs that are shorter wavelength than yellow are unacceptable in a residential setting where they can fuck with people's sleep cycle

and if you're a computer-using insomniac, try Redshift

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Move to Russia, their socialist government can keep the sun down for all day at times, and it's never as bright as in Texas

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[jones_supa]

I doubt anyone is suggesting blinking LEDs actually cause the problem (dear God, I hope not).

The LEDs can make the people imagine that there are "harmful electromagnetic waves" present. Thus, the LEDs would actually cause the problem, but mentally.

Solution: make devices with just a simple power LED in concealment somewhere back of the device, or allow the blinking LEDs to be toggled on/off.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[l3v1]

"Well, I know that in public schools they will compromise the health of the rest of the student body by removing healthy nuts from the menu due to one child's allergy, so I would not be surprised if they required the school to hardwire every classroom."

Well, if they manage to actually reliably prove the kid's electromagnetic intolerance, which I don't think anyone ever could prove before, then yeah, they might make all schools rewire every classroom, plus they'd be the most famous people on the planet.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Firethorn]

I don't understand this. Why is the suggestion that the radio is off (dark lights) not as strong as the suggestion that the radio is on?

It's a matter of ratios, which is why it's good to do all 4 possibilities(in this case) in 1 experiment.

Basically, between the lights on and lights off tests, you can figure out, roughly, how many people are (presumably) responding to the lights, and not the radio. How many are responding to the radio, and not the lights, etc...

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[dave420]

Hint: When calling someone obnoxious, don't be obnoxious yourself.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Smidge204]

I disagree. There is no reason at all to show lights if what you are really testing is sensitivity to radio signals.

There's no parlor tricks here. The lights are the placebo in a placebo-controlled study.

If you want to determine if a medicine is really the cause of the effect on patient's health - positive or negative - then you use a placebo to rule out the possibility that swallowing a huge pill or getting an injection itself is causing some psychological effect. You have the real medicine (lights+signal), fake medicine (lights + no signal), control group (no lights + no signal), and sometimes an alternative treatment (no lights + signal).

There is a known (or at least claimed) correlation between WiFi signals and reported illness. The test is designed to isolate the effects of perceivable stimulus (lights on the device) with the supposed cause of the illness (the invisible WiFi signals). Intuitively we all "know" that WiFi signals do not cause any physiological effects. But something is apparently effecting these people, and the test is aimed at figuring out what that something is.
=Smidge=

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or simply use tinfoil hat. It's a time proven solution to bullshit fears.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[donaldm]

You are quite right that some people are allergic to certain things such as nuts and even milk to name two. Once diagnosed that they have an allergic reaction to something or an allergy it really is up to the sufferer to to be aware of their condition and how to manage it. In the case of a very young sufferer they either don't attend a normal school or stay at home and have tutoring there although that can be a abused, hence the need for two or more medical examiners.

As for someone being allergic to WiFi either they are either lying or have some other problem, usually psychosomatic but if this type of allergy is true then they are destined for a very short life since WiFi is pretty much everywhere in most cities around the world and I can't see it being removed for one or two people.

As an aside I wonder if the child's parents have a WiFi router at home or do they have smart phones.?

Good grief it won't be long before we have litigation on the dangers of mobile phone usage and how dangerous it is to be speaking on one when you are filling you car with fuel... Oh Wait!

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[iamweasel]

Faraday cage is unnecessary. Set up a website with technobabble explaining that keeping two yellow marbles with magical properties in each trouser pocket will absorb any harmful man-made radiation. Make up some praising reviews. Set up a moderated discussion forum where people can tell how this affected their life. Keep people with a clue outta there.

Sell / provide a few.

Or then try homeopathy, if you can get the kid to believe it works.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[N1AK]

What an obnoxious asshole.

Yes you really are. I'm actually inclined to agree that the experiment design wasn't ideal, clearly it was designed to test whether indicators of WIFI affect people rather than the presence of WIFI itself, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be civil or moderate when discussing it.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Stick your hand in a microwave and defeat the door safety lock, then turn it on.

Bingo! The ability to detect 2.4GHz radiation with your body.

I don't think Randi would be too impressed though. Your claim that detection of such radiation would be a supernatural power is the kind of assumptive error in deductive logic that Randi is actually against.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or mold toxins. But then some of the other kids and teachers would show symptoms as well. Or perhaps the kid is exposed both in his home and in the school.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[RogueyWon]

I had to deal with an issue relating to a number of members of the public claiming to be affected by this a couple of years ago. Bluntly, most of the people involved had clear mental health or personality issues and were projecting their general dislike of modern life and technology onto this supposed bogeyman.

A couple turned out to be more interesting; they'd started feeling unwell since having wireless routers installed in their homes. Turned out that a faulty batch of router power supplies was emitting a high pitched whine that some people were sensitive to, with symptoms including loss of sleep, headaches and nausea. The problems with this router batch (though not the specific issue I was involved in) attracted some reporting in the tech press: here.

Nothing to do with wireless signals, but everything to do with what was, essentially, one of those teenager-repellent "stingers" being installed in their homes.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope.

It is like trying to keep a garden free of insects because a person freaks out over them and has panic attacks.
That is their weird bodies problem, not the universe for existing.
The universe tends to unexist people like that after a while.

But we can't do things like that now, oh no, life is precious in all its wonder and glory.
We must save it all! Like a Pokemon master!

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Greyfox]

Or possibly just at home. The kind of people who tend to go on about "WIFI radiation" are usually the same ones who use "organic" cleaning agents that don't really kill any bacteria and don't vaccinate their children. For all we know, he could be an unvaccinated child who's been living in a moldy, dirty-ass environment until they sent him off. The second he went off to school, all the diseases that everyone else is immune to all could have combined in his system to make turbo-ebola. I predict all their faces be melting off shortly.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Cederic]

Off topic, but thank you for stating 'LMGTFY' and not obnoxiously linking to the site with the same name.

Same point, much friendlier :)

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Try moving to the United Kingdom? ;)

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[MrL0G1C]

Are you not aware of the many orders of magnitude difference between WiFi and Microwave ovens.

Microwave Oven typically 600+ Watts or 600,000mW

Wifi Typically 5mW or 0.005 Watts

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

could have combined in his system to make turbo-ebola. I predict all their faces be melting off shortly.

I really hope his school lunch is gluten-free, or his penis will surely fly off like rocket, targeting the nearest hot-spot.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Your point is an important one: in law, public schools are required to do whatever is necessary; but that certainly doesn't stop them from imposing a variety of procedural hurdles, attempting to pass off inadequate measures as being suitable, or just plain stalling. This is theoretically legally risky; but it's not as though there are any regulatory bodies with the time and interest to proactively hunt misconduct, so it's pretty much a question of how forceful the parents are. The ability of the district to demand some level of evidence is hardly unreasonable; but there are certainly ways to...creatively extend...the IEP process that are just plain cold-blooded. Some school districts are definitely better than others, and some people within a given school district are more sympathetic than others; but especially if the accommodation required is an expensive one, there is an institutional incentive to try to avoid it.

My focus was purely on the difference in legal obligation between a private institution that is merely required to not violate any specific laws about discrimination; and a public one which is required to accommodate all in-district students; so I did not mention how it plays out in practice; but what you say is true. There is a difference, and sometimes a large and appallingly bad-faith one, between having a legal obligation and upholding it.

This case is pretty unsympathetic, given its severely dubious medical basis and the large impact it would have on other students(though I do feel bad for the kid; his problem is unlikely to be RF related; but it probably isn't nonexistent, whatever it is); but that doesn't in any way imply that much stronger cases necessarily receive fair treatment.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Joce640k]

It's exactly what double blind means. You don't tell the subjects whether they're in the active, placebo, or control groups.

Nope, that's a blind test.

Double-blind means the people handing out the pills also don't know if they're placebo or not. This eliminates any subtle body-language vibes they might be giving out to the people who swallow them.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[RatPh!nk]

This is a great point. More importantly, I would suggest a vast majority have no idea what "electromagnetic radiation" is and are ignorant to the fact that they are bathed in it, in this part of the spectrum - 2300-2400 MHz everywhere they go.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Himmy32]

Maybe they it they are just sensitive to radiation in the visible spectrum. The obvious answer is to stick them in pitch dark rooms to help them learn.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Skin rash from sun (happens to me), is often a heat rash/sweat rash. It can happen that the sweat glands are not open to the air and sweat just stays underneath the skin. Annoying, but not super serious.

I live in the Netherlands so it rarely is very hot. But now I play Just Dance and my body heats up and causes skin rashes that do not go away anymore. I guess my fitness is more important than clear skin that doesn't itch, so *sigh*. Only issue is scratching may cause an infection, is fitness more important than getting infections?

There is also a lot more serious condition, heat, for some people causes the body to produce histamine. This will cause symptoms that are identical to an allergic reaction including skin rashes, shock, coma and death.

Interesting it is not classified as an allergic reaction even though the symptoms are identical and caused by the same issue 'production of histamine by the body', because the way histamine is created is different.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Bob the Super Hamste]

Probably not the organic cleaning agent using ones (as you point out those don't kill the germs) but the ones who have little bottles of Purell hand sanitizer clipped on to their belts and wipe every thing down with Clorox wipes multiple times a day. These parents are also ones who likely don't let the kids play in the dirt or go outside.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[RatPh!nk]

In addition the 5GHz spectrum is equally as crowded. (After I RTF article)

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

post to remove accidental moderation - effing Javascript autosubmit boxes

How does a post affect moderation? seriously?

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[jafiwam]

It seems to me that more and more people are exhibiting symptoms of being allergic to modern life and all its complexities, technology very much included. But in this case I'm thinking more and more that it's just the kid not wanting to go to school, so he latched on to this mysterious ailment (that he probably read about on the internet) and is playing it for all it's worth. His parents, being totally incapable of conceiving on their precious little snowflake actually faking anything like this, is going Great Guns over it. Or, perhaps, they're scumbags and are trying to cash in through litigation on something they sold their kid on. Either way: Occams' Razor.

Allergic? No.

Seeing everybody else whine about something and get coddled, rewarded, given money or status because of it... yes. I assume a lot of it is "let's get some money out of it using lawyers" or in the case of africa "let's get some money in hush money / bribes."

It's the rotting of integrity in modern culture, not allergies.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[danbert8]

Also posting to undo mod.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[danbert8]

Is there a name for an anti-placebo where you are giving them an actual drug but telling them it's a placebo to test if a patient thinking the drug does nothing is overcome by any actual benefits of the drug itself?

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[danbert8]

Or electrical tape works...

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Almost, the lights are a nocebo however, not a placebo. So:

Lights + signal = Active
Lights only = Nocebo
Signal only = Placebo
Nothing = Control

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[danbert8]

Move to Alaska in the winter and Antarctica in the summer and you'll be able to be free from most of the sun! Or just living in a cave works too I suppose.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Holi]

That should have been done in the first place. Don't expect me to do your work for you. No citation means you fail, or are you gonna tell you college professor to google it?

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Holi]

Posting removes moderation done to articles, one cannot post and moderate in the same article.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Gilgaron]

It isn't like you really need to sterilize hard surfaces at home anyway. I don't mind cleaning a toilet with Windex since it is pointless to sterilize it and it does a good enough job cleaning it, but my wife thinks that's gross and insisted using a 'real cleaner' like Softscrub. Then she got into the organic stuff and so we're using some organic cleaner that is mostly ethanol (from organic corn, as if that matters...) and some essential oil for scent. It works as well as Windex, less harsh than bleach-based cleaners, and smells better. Good enough. I may top it off with denatured alcohol when she isn't looking... no need to pay a markup for alcohol and a few drops of oil.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Dr. Zim]

This is repeated over and over again when ham operators put up towers. The complaints start rolling in about interference with phones and tv signals long before any transmitter is ever activated. I've even got grief for small wire receive only antennas.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Holi]

Still no citation for this claim. We spent lot of time discussing someone's fantasy.

Honestly If you are going to make claims of some study, you really should post a link to it, or at least to something discussing it.
And to anyone telling me to look it up, I say no, not my job, if you made this mistake in a paper in school you would fail, so try not to fail in life too.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Holi]

You can call it what ever you want, No one has provided any evidence that this study is anything more then a figment of Firethorn's imagination.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Holi]

The lack of citation and the fact that the only reference to this study is in comment sections of articles makes me doubt it's veracity.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[CrimsonAvenger]

I have tried to sue the sun, and have asked it to turn itself down, but it never complies for more than 12 hours a time, frequently less.

Oh, nonsense! It complies for better than 13 hours on Christmas, just to give you a treat....

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Put the router in a cardboard box. It will be proof that a cardboard box is a medical device.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[avandesande]

More likely brainwashed by whacko parents

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Holi]

"There are a half a dozen studies that show this"

So cite them. Don't tell people to google anything. You make the claim, you back it up.

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[gurps_npc]

You might make a better impression if you didn't start out lying.

The water itself DID light on fire, and the water from the tap was tested and found the gas. So you can't call that 'falsehood #1'.

The Colorado Dept said that the falsehood was 'fracking caused the gas in the water.', not the water could light on fire.

Whether the state of Colorado is correct is another matter, but you yourself are stating your own claim so badly that it looks you are the one lying.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[internerdj]

Just move to Green Bank, West Virginia with the rest of the folks who "suffer" from this.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Aighearach]

Off topic, but thank you for stating 'LMGTFY' and not obnoxiously linking to the site with the same name.

Same point, much friendlier :)

Off topic, but I was a little disappointed. It was like a smackdown with a padded glove.

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

This isn't college and you aren't a professor.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Quirkz]

It depends what your theory is. If your theory is people can detect radio waves, your suggested experiment makes sense. If your theory is it's all in their mind, the original test makes more sense, because it actually tests whether psychological clues are part of the issue. Lo and behold, they can't detect radio waves and it *is* all in their mind, so it sounds like a far more informative experiment was carried out than the one you're suggesting. Yes, it goes an extra step, but it's a revealing extra step.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Aaden42]

But the South Africa test and this experiment are both strongly influenced by what the subjects thought

ding, ding, ding!!!!!

Congratulations! You've just stated exactly what the study proves and also confirmed why people who claim EMI-related illness are self-deluded crazies!

The proof of this test is specifically that people's belief that they are being bombarded by radio which they believe makes them sick is what makes people sick. The presence or absence of the radio signal had no bearing on how they felt. Only their belief that the radio was there affected them. The study proves that EMI-related illness is psychosomatic, not actually caused by the radio waves as claimed.

In other words, these people are a case for the P-sychiatrist. Turning the radio off won't make them feel better. (But ironically, convincingly lying to them that you *have* turned it off, *would* make them feel better).

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Aighearach]

"Double blind" in this experiment would mean neither the subjects nor the observers would know whether the radio was on or off. Clearly everyone would know whether the lights were on or not. And yeah, one one level it's trying to mislead people to see whether it's the radio or their perception of the radio which is causing the problem. I doubt anyone is suggesting blinking LEDs actually cause the problem (dear God, I hope not).

There is not enough consensus on the philosophical meaning of "cause" to really answer the question so broadly stated.

It may be they were "born that way" and it "isn't their fault" and you can't differentiate between the LEDs "causing" the problem in these subjects, or the subjects "causing" the problem in the presence of the LED.

Luckily, science doesn't care and doesn't try. The two views are considered the same.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Khyber what's this about you? http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Maritz]

Yeah. Basically, electro-mag sensitivity people have made up their minds that it's wifi, radio towers, etc - and nothing on this fucking Earth will ever, ever convince them otherwise. That's humanity for you.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Aighearach]

Electrical tape is not just to cover your data and protect it from prying eyes anymore.

http://it.slashdot.org/story/0...

It is also the new tinfoil, and can protect you from wifi radiation! lmao

Cardboard can also filter the radiation. Just put the wifi into a cardboard box, make sure it is completely sealed so you can't see it from any angle, and visitors experiencing wifi exposure symptoms can receive substantial relief. Just don't tell them that the radiation it is filtering is the visible light from the LEDs; they won't have any moment of understanding, their symptoms will just return.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

"All these science spheres are made of asbestos, by the way. Keeps out the rats. Let us know if you feel a shortness of breath, a persistent dry cough or your heart stopping. Because that's not part of the test. That's asbestos." -- Cave Johnson

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Coren22]

They could always equip the court room with 802.11 that is randomly turned on and off.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[bluefoxlucid]

Providing misleading cues disjoint from the actual event allows you to build multiple correlations. They showed no correlation between symptoms and EMR, but strong correlation between symptoms and perception of EMR.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Aighearach]

I've found that liquid electrical tape works pretty good as well. I've even used foil a couple times.

I was waiting for the tinfoil set to weigh in on this thread, thank you.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Aighearach]

When I was in preschool, I got a "cold" and had to stay home so I didn't make the other kids sick. That part was explained to me at the time. But they didn't also explain that my runny nose and sore throat were themselves the "cold." So those symptoms went away, and I had no idea that I no longer had a "cold." They asked if I wanted to go back to preschool, I said "no." I mean, I didn't like it for other reasons and back then in the stone age "preschool" was daycare with no education at all, and no concept of appropriate supervision either. So it was no loss. But they just respected my wishes, and it was many years later when they found out the reason I said "no" was that I didn't want to make the other kids get a "cold," whatever that was. It sure sounded bad by the tone of voice adults used when they said I had it.

It is the natural trajectory for making decisions from ignorance.

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

I was able to light my grandparents well water coming out of the tap 40 years ago. This isn't new.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Muad'Dave]

TFA specifically says it's the new-fangled 5 GHz spectrum that's the problem.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably been done as well. It all depends on what exactly you are testing.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Aighearach]

Funny that you conflate using low quality anti-bacterial agents, and... anti-vaxers.

Killing bacteria around you for no reason will decrease the quality of your immune response and can cause illness. Mystery symptoms are more likely caused by persistent lack of suitable bacteria levels in the home, rather than a lack of disinfectant. The things you want to clean up to prevent respiratory irritation are the particulates, like mold spores and insect feces. Killing bacteria is generally counter-productive. You seem very confused on these issues. You would never be less immune to common illnesses because of killing bacteria. Yet you equate lack of vaccination to lack of anti-bacterials. You're moving in both directions at once. If it is this hard for people on slashdot to understand this stuff, how can the anti-vaxxers be expected to understand?

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about anyone else, but I have black electrical tape on all the LEDs for any device where it would bug me. Living room, the PS3 remote charging stand has blue LEDs built in to the bottom of the stand, I had to take it apart to tape over the LEDs. In my computer room, any and all LEDs have black tape over them.

Otherwise I get agitated, and covering them up provides instant relief.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Aighearach]

It seems to me that covering up the LEDs is a rather easy, reasonable, and affordable accommodation. What is actually gained by not offering them this treatment? Do students making use of wifi actually need to see the LED to know it is on, or can they can just consult the wifi interface on their device?

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Schizophrenia is all "in your head" as well (quite literally) but that doesn't make it any less real.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Aighearach]

in law, public schools are required to do whatever is necessary

Gonna call bullshit right at the start, sorry. This is a common layperson's misunderstanding of law and administration. It seems to mostly come from AM radio, and the idea that because hippies like schools, and school boards often have a majority of Democrats, that therefore any rules relating to schools must be insane and irrational and follow the right-wing-AM-radio prescription for what libraals must think.

Public schools are required to... provide reasonable access to a basic education. And follow other laws, generally the same ones as everybody else.

Being required to "provide reasonable accommodation" is not at all the same thing as being required to do "whatever is necessary." (necessary what is left undefined) They have to provide the amount of accommodation that is required for the student to have access to basic education; that is all. They do not have to, and do not, guarantee results, which is implied by "whatever is necessary." It may be that little Johnny is just going to sit there and drool, and cannot be accommodated in a way that will provide the same education as little Jill, who only needed a ramp installed to get into the room. They're not required to do "whatever is necessary" for little Johnny. They're only required to do what is reasonable in order to give him the opportunity to sit there and try. (or drool)

Just dump the word "necessary" off the side of the ship, and anywhere you wanted to use it, say "reasonable" instead.

They are not, for example, required to build a school inside a bubble for bubble-boy to have the same quality of experience as other children. They may only provide written materials, and access to an internet-based tutor. Or maybe the student is too sensitive to (whatever) to use electronics. It won't mean the end of the world, just one step lower on how much access will be "reasonable."

I'll give you another hint: the school board generally offers vastly more accommodation than is required by law, because it is demanded by local voters.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Aighearach]

Help, I'm giving off radiation even at night and the doctor says if I ever stop, I'll die!

Actually, I suspect parts of my body will continue radiating for many, many years after my death.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Aighearach]

The courthouse already has that, but you're not allowed to use it inside the court-room.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[tehcyder]

Is there a name for an anti-placebo where you are giving them an actual drug but telling them it's a placebo to test if a patient thinking the drug does nothing is overcome by any actual benefits of the drug itself?

You do realise that when you do these tests you don't actually tell the patients that they're placebos? Right?

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[tehcyder]

I've found that liquid electrical tape works pretty good as well. I've even used foil a couple times.

In any situation, you should use tinfoil regardless. You never know who or what is watching you.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[tehcyder]

Citation, please. If genuine, this study needs to be cited every time this issue comes up.

I imagine the school's lawyers would be quite grateful for a link too.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Aighearach]

Sure, but imagine a kid as agoraphobia and can't stand being in the open air. Is it reasonable for the parents to expect the school to put the football field inside of a building so the kid can be on the team?

Accommodation is for required basic education, not for any elective activity. They're required to provide equal access to all the services provided; it doesn't mean they have to modify each service so that it would benefit each student. A student with agoraphobia would be expected to have access to sports, and to counseling services. The sort of accommodation they would be expected to receive would to be excused without penalty to go sit in the locker room (or nurse's office) if they started freaking out. And to have access to indoor sports, since there are lots of those that are commonly also offered. They might have to, for example, make room for that student in the "table tennis" class, even though enrollment had filled up. If the activity permits, such as table tennis, they might even need to roll one of the tables into a small adjacent room. Most of these things can and are worked out by the school nurse working together with the head of physical education. But moving the ping-pong table is based on it being an easy and reasonable thing to do. That is what makes it something they might "have" to do.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[tehcyder]

Move to Alaska in the winter and Antarctica in the summer and you'll be able to be free from most of the sun! Or just living in a cave works too I suppose.

Or just visit a seaside resort in the summer here in the UK. I can guarantee you won't be bothered by the sun.

Global warming, my arse.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Aighearach]

It doesn't have to be in the curriculum; it is enough if they have promoted wifi access as being something that assists in students' education. Then you can't just deny other students access to it in order to accommodate one student.

OTOH, if it is just for the teacher to do (whatever school-related thing) then that most likely can be replaced with ethernet.

The real accommodation is just hiding the wifi devices. It is effective, and doesn't impact other students. It is a minor headache for school maintenance staff, but shouldn't actually cost anything directly.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[danbert8]

Right, but scientifically, there might be value in telling a patient they are getting a placebo when administering a drug to see if they get better despite not believing they are getting treatment. It is the inverse of believing they are getting treatment when they aren't. Both might be scientifically valid. Though I think I have read that some people get better on placebos even if they are told it is a placebo. People are funny creatures...

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Lazy dipshit detected...
Look buddy, Google it your fucking self.

No one cares if you keep posting as an ignorant dumbass, so either do the legwork yourself or steel yourself to being rediculed over your "beliefs".

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a K-9 school that costs over $50k a year to send your kid there. So probably a case of affluenza as well, right?

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[tehcyder]

A mental illness is still an illness. So the ADA would still apply.

Yes but what should the school do about it? Screw everyone else because they have one disabled child? Or provide a facility for the disabled child to work within the system.

I say we put the kid in a cage.

One of my kids wasn't allowed to take peanut butter sandwiches for her lunch because one of her classmates was allergic to nuts. The obvious alternative was to tell the greedy litle sod not to nick other people's sandwiches.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Aighearach]

Somehow I doubt you got the full story on that one... lol

If you understood the Social Security Disability process you'd realize how insane the implications of your claim are. Even if you roll in in a wheelchair, you will get denied and it will take years of legal process to eventually get into the program. Almost everybody is denied. If somebody is on Social Security Disability and they were diagnosed as an adult, you can know already they were denied and had to "win" their status with a lawyer using the appeals process.

Also, guess what, when people tell you stories about their personal life or disabilities, you aren't usually getting the complete story. For example, if your neighbor has brain damage from having her head smashed in by some freak, she might not phrase it that way; she might use language more sympathetic to her current condition, and just give the relevant parts; that she can't hold a job, and that it is because of a bad relationship. You not respecting her situation doesn't change it any. And her giving her insensitive asshole neighbor her medical details wouldn't likely make him much better a neighbor.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[tehcyder]

This is a California thing in general. There are some additional California rules that go beyond ADA requirements that tend to be abused. There is essentially no enforcement though, except by roving bands of lawyers who threaten to sue people. This is by design because it is cheaper than hiring regulators paid by the state (and it's also Republican friendly to have private enterprise suing people). It's cheaper to pay off the lawyer than to go to court and get an exemption or time extension or clarification of the rules.

This happens in Oklahoma City, too. When business gets slow, painting companies will drive around looking for houses that need paint and report them to the city, then within a couple of days of the notices getting sent out, this company goes door to door seeing if they would like their house painted.

What? You have laws in the US about your house having to be painted? Is it a crime to have weeds on your lawn too?

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Aighearach]

So the question is: Can the parents prove - via a medically recognized procedure - that their child is actually allergic to WiFi? If so, not only will they win the right to ban all WiFi in the school

Nope. They would not get to ban wifi. They would get a few rooms in some district owned facility turned into a new school that is wifi-free to accommodate the affected students. They would probably only need 1 teacher. They could do it like an old farm school, with one teacher for all the grades.

Banning nuts isn't just based on the seriousness of the allergy. It is the combination of that, and the fact that nuts are not required for education and so banning them has no effect on education at all, and only a small effect on other students because they're not a staple food, and not something that any major religion requires followers to eat with lunch. If one of the major religions required followers to carry bags of nuts around, those allergic students would be in a different building than the regular students, and nuts wouldn't be banned in normal schools.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

They already sell this-- the gurus who propose the pink Himalayan salt lamps are cure alls for oh EVERYTHING.

One link proposing the magical properties: http://www.naturallivingideas.com/himalayan-pink-salt-lamp-benefits/

My mom keeps trying to get me to use one. The only thing it does is attract the grandkids to lick it. Yes totally gross.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Faraday hamsters could solve so many traffic problems.

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[lanthar]

There are four lights!

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Firethorn]

I'm sensitive to visible radiation - specifically, I'm in the top x% that's sensitive to flickering. For example, I could spot a CRT monitor set to a 60hz refresh rate from across the room. I can spot weak fluorescent ballasts. The effect is not subtle to me.

But even then, bump it from 60hz to 70-75, and I'm fine.

The wireless router, I'd point out that it's the lights annoying me.

Heck - that could be another test. Get away from 'RFI' sufferers. Just test 'comfort levels' in some rooms where the only difference is blinking lights, perhaps of different colors like red and blue. I'd suggest: 50hz, 60hz, 70hz, semi-random(like router activity lights), and off as the control. Go the extra mile and test the difference between 'standard' worn-in fluorescent lighting and DC LED lighting(so absolutely no flicker).

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Firethorn]

You must of missed this post then.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Firethorn]

I don't believe in alien or government mind control stuff that can be blocked by foil, but it being impervious to visible light is well known to night workers trying to sleep during the day.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[phoenix_rizzen]

Telus does something similar in the larger cities up here. They put in a new cell tower, but leave it powered off/disconnected. Wait a couple of months for the lawsuits and complaints to start pouring in, then reveal that nothing is running yet. All the complaints stop and lawsuits are thrown out. A little while after that, they turn the cell tower on, without telling anyone. Seems to have cut down on the amount of time wasted in the court system for them. :)

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[pebear]

I find putting electrical tape over status lights helps me sleep better at night. Just because I like it pitch dark when I sleep...

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[phoenix_rizzen]

The Nocebo Effect.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

At worst, the ADA accommodation would be to tell the kid WiFi was turned off and hide the APs. Given that EHS has been demonstrated to be a reaction to a) thinking that WiFi is turned on and b) seeing the lights on the AP, that would be sufficient. But then again, those conditions are symptoms of a mental illness that can be classified as something other than EHS, and I don't think "paranoid delusions" is something that one makes an ADA accommodation for; I suspect that's something that gets one put into inpatient treatment until such time that you can function in the outside world without direct supervision...

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Methadras]

Not in NewAge tinfoil hat SJW conspiracy land they don't.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Methadras]

That's not a supernatural power. It's not even a power. Our eyes can detect visible light between a certain spectra. Should that be a supernatural power? Some species can see in infrared and ultraviolet. Should that be a supernatural power?

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Thelasko]

" If he still develops symptoms then it's something else."

Yea, the student is full of shit and trying to get out of school.

Or has Munchausen syndrome.

Strange, Firefox spellchecker insists it's spelled Munchhausen, but Google says it's not.

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, no, the "water" did not light, merely the gas contained in the water since "water" will not burn until about 2100 degrees when it separates into hydrogen and oxygen.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Firethorn]

Boy, you're really going on that citation thing, you know? Completely missed where I posted sources?

Here, have another couple.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[__aabppq7737]

Once, in one of my dreams, I opened a microwave door while the microwave was on and it burned me.

Never seen it happen in reality.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[mark-t]

True... but even if the device is covered, if the sufferer still believes that the device is on, even if they have absolutely no rational basis for that belief, then they may still suffer from the psychosomatic effects. Belief, as I said elsewhere, is surprisingly powerful... it can induce immune reactions, hormone level changes that are ordinarily only accounted for by external stimuli, or any number of other effects on a person's physiology that may be externally measurable, and are *VERY* real.

Either you have to actually genuinely convince the sufferer that what they are experiencing is caused by their own mind, or else convince the person that what they are sensitive to is simply not present.

Doing either can be extremely difficult, since as I said, there does not need to be any rational reason for them to believe that something they are allegedly sensitive to may be present.... but that belief can still be sufficient to trigger a real physiological reaction... if what they believe to be true actually is true, that only serves to reinforce the belief.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[david_thornley]

Quite a few years ago, my wife ate four Dairy Queen dilly bars for lunch, came home, and felt sick. She got really sick from that, and blamed it on the dilly bars.

A bit later, I got an A&W Cream Soda from a friend, and it tasted off. I then became really sick.

What obviously happened was that we got sick because of some virus or other infectious agent, and attributed the sickness to what we ate or drank when we were starting to get symptoms. We know that. I still find A&W Cream Soda irrationally repulsive. Misattribution happens, and it can last a long, long time.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[david_thornley]

Considering the wavelength of the radiation, how find a mesh do we have to have on this cage, and how much tolerance do we have for gaps in doors, joins, etc.?

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Firethorn]

The obvious alternative was to tell the greedy litle sod not to nick other people's sandwiches.

The problem with this is that the sensitivity is really quite insane for some with peanut allergies. As somebody mentioned, some of them will go into shock from touching a pencil touched by somebody who had just eaten the sandwich.

Now, one could tell your kid to eat neater as well as have the allergic kid washing everything down first in case of peanut-butter infused crumbs, but we'd really rather not risk potentially deadly symptoms.

Now what's hilarious is when the occasional school tries to say that the epi-pen is a drug and thus, per policy, needs to be kept in the nurse's office, to be administered when the nurse is available only.

Tragically, it's resulted in at least one death. They took the girl's pen away, she latter suffocated during a reaction during class. Normally it just results in an epic stomp by the parents.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Best comment on all my fora reading today. Brilliant comment. +1 for the Collected Histories originality.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[kheldan]

Uh, you do understand I used the word 'allergic' in only the loosest sense here, not literally, right? You seem to think I was implying that there are people with actual physiological allergies to modern life or something..

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Something that is an illness isn't automatically a disability. In any case, there is no existing diagnosis for EHS in the United States.

Taking these reasons into account, the student's claim has as much weight with the ADA as claiming demons or fairies that inhabit the school are causing the symptoms.

Any person with any shred of reasoning skills (or appeal to Occam's Razor) knows this is simply a kid that is trying to find an excuse to not have to deal with going to school.

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you not tell the difference between toxic chemicals and harmless radio waves? If that is truly the case, please go and find the nearest meat slicer and slowly feed your penis into it.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[niftymitch]

LMGTFY: http://www.who.int/peh-emf/pub...

The most serious conundrum is RF is so ubiquitous that litigation of and changes in the school
will not solve this if it was real. All the new phones worthy of buying have dual band WIFI hardware, bluetooth,
and a gazillion cell service bands.

Unknown and rejected by the tinfoil hats is the reality that more and closser Cell, WiFi towers and
routers is the only way to enable dynamic systems to operate at lower power levels. The further
away a modern router is the more power a phone or laptop must use to hold up the near end
of transmission pair.

WiFi inside of aircraft... WiFi in coffee shops, WiFi in grocery stores so the stock clerks can
scan and check a gazillon items an hour and via wifi send the data back to the home office three
time zones away. WiFi in an aircraft is interesting... the aircraft would reflect in inside the cabin
and even at low antenna power the RF noise could be a thing.

My guess is the parents of this child put their cell phone in the kids stroller...
and continue to use their devices in the automobile and more.

I would love this to go to court and the judge slam the heck out of the first plaintiff attorney
that flips open a laptop and connect to the courthouse WiFi in the presence of the child.

If their child has a true problem and they have not moved to one of the rare almost RF free
locations the parents need to be relieved of the child by child protective services.

I worry about this too but the risk of a broken leg after tripping over yet another wire
is a bigger risk AFAICT.

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[TheRealLifeboy]

Is it just me or what?? You don't "light something on fire". You simply light it. The verb "light" in this context means "to set on fire". Clearly some dimwit started this "lighting on fire" nonsense and now everyone and their parrot is "lighting things on fire".

In summary:

1. You light a fire
2. You set fire to a bush
3. You set a pile of wood on fire
4. You strike a match to light it

You never light something on fire, unless you mean to say that you're setting fire to something that is somehow balanced on top of an existing fire.

:-P

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

"i don't want to click on all the links that have been provided to me, and I refuse to type the words "wifi sickness research" into a google search box" FTFY

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[niftymitch]

I was able to light my grandparents well water coming out of the tap 40 years ago. This isn't new.

Correct.... not new.
The fracking issue mostly is simply some historic issue looking for deep pockets to dig into.
Energy companies drilling for oil and mining coal.
Attorneys looking for deep pockets to dig money out of.

I said mostly... there are some troubles in paradise but fracking is not the issue
to pay attention to.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your argument is invalid. The whole of perceived reality is "all in [our] heads". Our brains are just interpreting electric signals to create the physical world around us. Find a way to manipulate those signals (radiation, psychoactive chemicals) and *poof* there goes "reality." In knowing this, it stands to reason that everyone perceives their own individual reality, and just brushing something to the side as it is "all in your head" is a rather lazy argument. Fibromyalgia is a perfect example of a disease that exists "in your head" is manifested in extremely painful physical symptoms. (my mother was diagnosed with this after being told by several doctors that she was "making it up" because they couldn't find a "physical" reason) The truth of all matters here is that we don't understand enough about the human brain and what it means to be conscious. Add to that the lack of concrete understanding of our current perceptions of reality, and all you end up with is a bunch of speculation

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[xenotransplant]

(S)He isn't missing the posts, (s)he is ignoring them. (S)He was replied to with several links, and then waited a few more posts to make a comment about the lack of sources, more sources were linked, and here we are again.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Rakarra]

For all we know, he could be an unvaccinated child who's been living in a moldy, dirty-ass environment until they sent him off

Lack of vaccines is pretty bad, but it's the kids in the moldy, dirty-ass environment who are likely to have better immune systems. If your environment is sterilized all the time, your immune system is not exposed to things it needs to fight off, so later on when the kid IS exposed to those things, they have little built-up defense.

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[DariusMacSean]

The human brain generates 20-25 watts--more than wi-fi, even cumulatively. Why doesn't THAT make him sick?

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[fredgiblet]

Same thing with my sister and Taco Bell (cue Taco Bell jokes).

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[fredgiblet]

Because it's psychosomatic.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[minstrelmike]

Interesting, do you have a source ? (Aka citation needed).

Don't need a citation
Need to test the kid. Hell, he might be the first with a real wifi allergy (probably not).

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[minstrelmike]

I think in this particular case, you could probably induce it in the kid simply by testing the mom.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[lsatenstein]

Easy way to win the Amazing Randi's million dollar challenge for supernatural powers. If you get sick when they turn the wi-fi on and feel better when they turn it off, you have the ability to detect 2.4GHz radiation with your body.

Its definitely possible to get sick from wifi. Want to know how???

Well, suppose the child's teeth braces are at the wavelength for perfect reception of 2.4Ghz. The child's braces act like an antenna, and there an be a voltage generated between two teeth by the metal bands. That voltage could cause some headaches.

And of course, my theory goes to pots if the child does not wear braces or metal frame glasses, also the frame capable of acting like an antenna.

A third possibilty is that the router is within 18 inches of her skull. So the next best thing to prove it is the router is for the child to put her head next to router and for the school to do a double blind test.

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[GaryDphotos]

WiFi sensitivity is a load of crap. Such a person might as well wear a copper wire cloak to be sure not to pick up powerful am, fm & satellite radio signals, phone microwave and cellular signals, rando RF from our planet and signals from outer space!

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[Trogre]

The citations.

Just provide the citations please. "Just Google it" is not helpful as there is a tonne of material out there presenting different view points and methods, some badly flawed.

If you want to mention research here, you need to back it up with EVIDENCE. Otherwise you're better off just stepping outside and playing with squirrels.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[CanadianMacFan]

Does it keep tigers away too?

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[DEN_GUY]

Easy to test right? Put a WiFi transmitter a room with the child and ask them him/her to determine when it is on. My guess is that the chances are 50/50, like if you asked to tell you if your fingers are crossed behind your back.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

EASY GOV MONEY! Just like in Science, eh? Of course the child can be tested, if they place him next to a TV or radio station and his brain goes fried, the case would be proven.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Rakarra]

A private school has no particular obligation to deal with anyone in particular; so long as they don't explicitly step on some protected class or (as is being argued in this case) fail to make reasonable accommodation per the ADA.

An ADA claim is going to be a tough sell; they would have to prove that wi-fi sickness is a real thing, IE, not psychosomatic, to count as a reasonable accommodation that the administration would have to implement. We've seen exactly the opposite so far.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Rakarra]

That's interesting, but TFA does mention that they were using wi-fi-connected laptops in the classroom, and that sort of thing is difficult to hide.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Rakarra]

What? You have laws in the US about your house having to be painted? Is it a crime to have weeds on your lawn too?

It depends. Does it damage "property values" in the neighborhood? There's a lot of meddling that can be done about someone else's private property if you can prove their private property affects your and your neighbors home prices. I've never heard of a -city- that enforces this, though. Usually that's a homeowner association sort of nastiness.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Rakarra]

I'm not sure why this is modded as Troll. There are all sorts of science-denying sort of beliefs that correlate to different ends of the political spectrum. "Climate change is a hoax! The science is a lie! Those fossils are only 6000 years old and/or come from the devil!" tends to come from the conservative side. "Wi-Fi signals are harmful! Vaccines cause autism! GMOs are evil and unsafe and should be banned!" tend to come from the politically liberal. Sometimes you'll have an outlier, like Michelle Bachmann's... unwise wading into the vaccine/autism debate, but the tendency is there.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Khyber]

" he was fired from his job at Harts"

I've never worked for Hart's in my life.

" fired from his job at Papa Johns..."

Incorrect, I quit and filed suit with CA DLSE.

"fired from his job at a porn shop"

Yep. HR policy is entirely too strict. Your third late, EVER, is termination. Even for managers.

"drug addicted, alcoholic Homosexual"

I'm a medical cannabis user because I can't use opiates. Not even Immodium-AD. Alcoholic? Not even. Homosexual? Not entirely. AC's hating because I get laid more than they'll ever achieve in their life.

"High School Drop-out"

Yup, and went right to taking the college classes I felt like taking instead. My GED scores still place me in the top 2% national percentile of traditional high school graduates.

" He can't even hold down a job delivering Pizza!"

This idiot apparently doesn't know of the multiple lawsuits against Papa John's going on in multiple states for everything from refusal to pay mileage to improper classification of employees. Again, I wasn't fired, I quit and SUED.

"we researched his ass (he's not a "Research Director")"

There are multiple videos and pictures of me in the UK performing my duties as research director. I've got the contract, the passport stamps to the UK, and more.

"and arrived at the only sound and 'logical' conclusion: a Complete, Utter and Total Looser!"

Can you trust someone that can't even spell 'loser' properly, let alone utilize proper capitalization?

20:1 it's APK and his furfag pals, since he's got such an obvious hard-on for me.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

KHYBER,
Sure, you worked at Hartz... it was in Tennessee and you say that wasn't that you who in a video who was going on about being unreasonable fired in an "at will" state on YouTube? You took down the video, too... didn't you?! I liked the part where you picked some crap our of your right ear while talking.. Very Classy, Alex! Also like the "Sherrif Arapio, I challenge you" video!
Dumped from the porn shop because they discovered you were a convicted Felon. or maybe you're just too stupid to show up on time; the point being you've lost (Fired!) numerous jobs, ain't that right?
Argue all you want, but you couldn't keep at job a Papa Johns, could you! That's the bottom of the barrell, and you can't even hack that! Mr. LOOSER!
Shining a flash light on a piece of lettuce doesn't prove anything other than you're shining a flashlight on a piece of lettuce, doesn't prove you're a "Research Director", does it? Prove your a "Research Director" Provide some Evidence of any kind. H2O Farms and Ecogro are UK companies, why isn't your name listed at Companies House as a Director for H2O farms or ecogro? actually, those companies are Dissolved and you were never listed as a "Director" were you?
Provide the "Contract" you claim to have! Show the Visa Entries to all the countries you claim to visit. Proove it Mr Looser!
you've referred to your boyfriend, with whom you live as your "Husband", in a Civil Union? Prove it! Your 'Husband" know you're getting butt-fucked while he's at work?
How come your terms of probation require you to attend AA meetings if your not an alcoholic?
Got a GED? Top 2% of traditional High School graduates? that means you've got the equivalence of an 8th grade education and can probably conjugate the verb Hablar. that's about all!
You claim your "name was cleared" regarding your first Felony conviction- Prove it! 'cause that's just more bullshit from "lying sack of shit, Alex" ain't it?
you arguments are without any merit, just like your Write of Habeas Corpus- the only possible ways you could have been "cleared", but it didn't work, did it? Apparently, neither do you... my guess is you're probably flippin burgers for minimum wage, maybe washing dishes with your GED- which is as valuable as toilet paper.
your views, your opinions? You're Just a Fuckin' Looser! who cares what you think!

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

DANCE for me, Alex, Dance for me, BOY !

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

50m in your pocket? LMFAO....no, you were just convicted of a felony.
Fucking delusional.
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[–]khyberkitsune[S] 0 points 3 years ago
implying rich people can't keep their money.
Yep, still defective as always in your arguments.
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[–]SuperAngryGuy[F] 3 points 3 years ago
$50M...is this at you Sealand lab, convict? How much cock did you have to suck in jail to keep from being beaten down?
Being evicted because must have sucked, huh? That's OK though, you have $50m in you pocket.
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[–]khyberkitsune[S] -1 points 3 years ago
Uh, except I won the eviction suit this July. Whoops, you ignorant fuck. You claim to do research yet you can't find a simple law case?
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[–]SuperAngryGuy[F] 2 points 3 years ago*
What ever dude. A person who claims to have $50M in his pocket doesn't exactly have a lot of credibility.
How about linking to that big contract that you got from the military? And why would there be an eviction issue in the first place if you're so rich? It doesn't add up.
Your stories just become more outlandish.
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[–]maxkruger25 3 points 3 years ago
"Khyberkitsune", The Felony Convict, didn't "win" the eviction matter in July as he claims. The plaintiff dropped the matter. It's all public record! Along with the Restraining Order against Khyberkitsune- If you're so successful, why did you write threatening Letters in an attempt to Extort money from someone (Calif. Penal Code 523)? because you can't pay your hospital bills, Mr. Millionaire ? Don't bother with an answer, You're no longer amusing. Must be tough being a Convicted Felon, can't vote, can't own firearms, can't get a Passport, can't travel abroad, Submit to Random searches and Minimum Wage jobs for the rest of your sorry-ass, fucked-up life! You Stupid Bitch, you screwed yourself ! Khyberkitsune, stick to mopping up the floors in the in the Jack-Off booths of your minimum wage Porno Shop job. And you present yourself and actually believe you're smarter that all of us...???
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[–]khyberkitsune[S] 0 points 2 years ago
"And why would there be an eviction issue in the first place if you're so rich?"
It's called implied warranty of habitability and a vindictive douchebag landlord, who just got his ass owned in court.
Your brain doesn't add up, apparently. Go learn something about the real world and how it works.
"A person who claims to have $50M in his pocket doesn't exactly have a lot of credibility."
More credibility than a man who refuses to identify himself and talks shit. At least I'm public and people that have found me after your bullshit tirades have been more than impressed. You just hide behind a username like a coward and talk shit. How about you out yourself so some of those same people can find you and judge you, eh?
Oh, you can't, angry, and a complete coward to boot.
In the meantime, back to talking to NASA about their moon farming problem.
permalinkembedsaveparentgive gold
[–]SuperAngryGuy[F] 2 points 2 years ago*
Actually, I don't know your real name. And once again, why would you rent with $50M in your pocket. Doesn't add up.
"Back to NASA"...another claim you won't back up like having a lab at Sealand.
You're living in a fantasy world, porn store employee.
edit. Speaking of cowardice, why don't you post you're real name. Lies and ad hominems, that's all you have, porn shop employee with $50m in his pocket....
When are you going to actually back something up for once and give a link to that $50M contract? Give the link or STFU already.
I seriously doubt that anyone finds you impressive. You didn't even understand the difference between plasmids and plastids, "horticulture light researcher". LOL...
permalinkembedsaveparentgive gold
[–]alimraj 3 points 2 years ago
Actually, Khyberkitsune hasn't any aca

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's more fun with lights, because you get to ridicule the test subjects. If you just stick them in a room with antenna they claim they are feeling bad all the time because of background radiation or some such nonsense. The symptoms are real, they are just not caused by electromagnetism. The correct doctor to cure it is a psychiatrist. The hard part is actually convincing the subject it's not electricity. There are other things that have "caused" these exact symptoms before, the current favourite trend is wifi, or other electrical devices.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Our eyes can detect visible light between a certain spectra. Should that be a supernatural power?

Hell yes. It's the only way I'm ever going to have a superpower

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[weweedmaniii]

So how does the school feel about 30 6 meter CAT5 cables strung across the classroom...no hazards there....

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Blaskowicz]

And likely they'll have incredibly wrong reactions to some of those exterior "offenses", i.e. allergy.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Cthulhu's Physicist]

Placebo Blocker http://xkcd.com/1526/

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Himmy32]

I have a halogen lamp in my office to counteract the mechanical ballast overhead lights that drive my eyes crazy. I know exactly what you mean.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Firethorn]

You're lucky that the lamp works. I can be in a room 'full' of ballasts, and point right at the 'weak' one, and the flicker from it is enough to annoy me.

As the building custodian though, I was able to get them replaced.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

What if it is just in their heads? Seems the likeliest cause...

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[vandamme]

The radiation in a microwave oven is confined to the internal cavity, with extremely small amounts leaking through the shields in a properly functioning machine. Routers broadcast outward by design.

I'm a microwave engineer, actually. Not ovens, though; radar. I still can't cook worth a darn.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[anyGould]

That only works if he doesn't know that he's sitting in a Faraday cage. Otherwise the kid would simply subconsciously - or consciously - fake symptoms just to fulfill the prophesy declared by his parents. He can't know the Faraday cage is there, else you'd never be able to rule out WiFi RF and narrow it to "something [else] environmental".

So, tell his parents to buy him a Faraday suit to handle his disability. Schools don't have to supply wheelchairs or white canes. If they're concerned that their kid has the WiFi heebie-jeebies, then they should protect their kid.

Of course, I would love to hear their explanation for why TV and radio signals don't affect him. Or cell phones. Or cordless phones, microwaves, police scanners, or light bulbs in general.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Bathroom Humor]

There's a thing called nocebo which is similar to that.
Believing a thing will harm or diminish help in some way. Works at least as well as placebo.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[macraig]

Sure, but it's so much more fun to blame others and then sue them FTW.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Aighearach]

You just move them into non-wifi classes. As long as the access point is hidden, and they're not in the classes where students are using it, then they don't know when to have symptoms.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Aighearach]

I don't believe in alien or government mind control stuff that can be blocked by foil, but it being impervious to visible light is well known to night workers trying to sleep during the day.

And pot growers, trying to hide their crop at night. "No, no, that's to keep the aliens out. heh heh"

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Aighearach]

In this case, there is a mystery condition that includes skin rashes, and the doctor is the quack who decided it is wifi. The symptoms are probably not psychosomatic at all, and are unlikely to go away in the short term. The goal is to come up with responses for the school that will accommodate real conditions and not spend too much money on fake conditions, without the school having to try to second-guess a student's doctor. So if their doctor says it is something that is a known psychosomatic condition, then the school should take reasonable steps to minimize triggering the student. The same way that if they have an agoraphobia diagnosis, which in the past was controversial, you can take reasoned steps to minimize the situations that would be most problematic, and adopt special considerations for the student to be excused if having an attack. And a student with severe allergies might require that all the teachers for their classes get special training from the school district in administering emergency medication. In this case, it is not a controversial condition, but a known and well-understood one: Quackdoctoritis.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[yndrd1984]

Yes, I agree. But if you want to convince other people, who may have different beliefs and biases, you want the strongest evidence possible.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[MrL0G1C]

I wonder how many of these Wifi hating fools use mobile phones or tablets or have smart TVs, consoles, laptops etc with WiFi built in.

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

His point is solid. There is a known physical mechanism whereby a person could detect microwaves. It seems rather unlikely that such low levels as from wifi could be detected, but now we're merely talking degree.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[samwichse]

I believe this type of allergy exists and it even has a fancy acronym: NIMBY.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

I did tell a professor to look into it once. It was during a class discussion, and I had no Internet to prove the point myself. He went ahead and did it on the pc connected to the projector and low and behold he proved himself wrong in front of the entire class. The reaction was "Huh I guess you were right".

I got an A in the class.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

If the issue is that bad then that child should not be in a school. If your child develops an allergy to wood do we tell all of the other students that they cannot have wooden pencils, can't bring in anything made from wood, cannot use paper made from wood pulp?

If your kid is so sick that normal things are life threatening, then they should be taken care of in a facility that can handle those problems, not in a run of the mill school.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Khyber]

"Sure, you worked at Hartz... it was in Tennessee"

A google search for 'Hartz Memphis Tennessee' brings up no businesses by that name.

When your first words are instantly provable lies, you have no traction nor standing for the rest of your words to even be considered.

Re:What does Science have to say about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

The rest of what he wrote that you don't deny did the job on you. You don't deny them. You have serious issues.

Re: What does Science have to say about this?

[Holi]

The lazy dip shit is the one that doesn't provide sources for his claims.

The future is now

[Anonymous Coward]

Idiocracy here we come!

yes

[Anonymous Coward]

because wifi only exists near hotspots....not microwaves, or elsewhere.............

Re:yes

[timrod]

Of course Wifi only exists near hotspots, which is why I plan to sell the parents behind this lawsuit my own unique brand of Wifi that won't trigger their son's sensitivity. As everyone knows, only Wifi routers put out harmful radiation that can trigger such totally real disorders as electromagnetic hypersensitivity syndrome. Microwaves, on the other hand, contain all their radiation entirely within the steel box using the powers of science.

By putting their Wifi router in the microwave, along with any devices they wish to receive wifi, and turning the microwave on for 12 hours, young G's parents can bake the Wifi right into their devices without any risk of electromagnetic radiation triggering their son's disorder. I like to call it Mi-Fi.

Re:yes

[Adriax]

Shouldn't it be called Wi-Fri?

Re:yes

[Anonymous Coward]

Well there's already this product but it only works for pregnant women. So I applaud your microwave solution.

Re:yes

[coofercat]

Have just one AP somewhere out of the way and use some Wifi Spray occasionally to make sure it propagates everywhere you need it.

Really!?

[DaMattster]

I'm guessing a whole new low has been reached here. Shaking my head ....

Re:Really!?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah...the ambulance chaser who took this case should be disbarred after it is dismissed with prejudice.

Re:Really!?

[thegarbz]

I'm guessing a whole new low has been reached here. Shaking my head ....

Just wait till we move the goal posts again by finding the school is actually liable.

Re:Really!?

[ThatAblaze]

I suspect there is actually more to this story.

Consider: 1) This is not a public school, which means that the student is there by choice. 2) There are other private schools (I know of a few on the west coast) that could actually provide a wi-fi free environment with little trouble. 3) Moving is easier than a lawsuit.

From these datum I conclude that the lawsuit has a purpose quite apart from it's stated one. My conjecture is that the child has gotten into some form of trouble, and the school was on the verge of suspending or expelling the child. This lawsuit might well be a ploy to make it effectively impossible for the school to expel the child, since any such action now could easily be construed as discrimination.

When I assume that then this whole thing makes a lot more sense.

Re:Really!?

[Gibgezr]

Interesting theory. We see about one of these type of incidents (student has academic problems, complains loudly about some made-up bullshit issue and threatens lawsuit in order to get administration to cave) once every couple of years at my college, so it is not altogether unlikely. The really sad thing is that it works.

Re:Really!?

[Aighearach]

I like your open-minded quest for more reasoned reasons than advertised.

I suspect the goals are even simpler; social contacts seen as being important people explained the dangers of wifi, and now they're stuck in a corner; if they don't put up the appearance of fighting to the death over it, they won't be cool.

WiFi... WiFi everywhere

[Anonymous Coward]

Like... really?

Re:WiFi... WiFi everywhere

[Darinbob]

Must be a typo. Instead it is ELVIS that is everywhere.

Kids these days

[Anonymous Coward]

My schoolroom was next to a steel factory, on the 13th floor (they weren't superstitious) and there were no elevators.

Re:Kids these days

[tnk1]

Did it have a 19th floor?

Re:Kids these days

[vistic]

Of course it did that's where good old Miss Zarves taught.

Re:Kids these days

[Midnight Thunder]

My superstition is that not having a 13th floor is bad luck, since after all what is proping up the 14th floor? Magic? Though, whatever you do, don't try proving the fact that the 14th floor is the 13th, since this will lead to confusion and mass hysteria, and may even brand you as some sort of heretic.

Re:Kids these days

[reve_etrange]

If you have a third ear, does it increase your risk for EHS?

Child G?

[Anonymous Coward]

And siblings A, B, N and just for Slashdot... AC!

ADA act? What's their disability

[barc0001]

Chronic stupidity? Overactive placebo gland?

Blind test.

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell them they have turned the wifi off to see if it helps.

Don't

See if kid magically gets better

Re:Blind test.

[Nutria]

There was a case like this in South Africa, regarding cell towers.

http://idle.slashdot.org/story/10/01/15/1516245/tower-switch-off-embarrasses-electrosensitives
http://mybroadband.co.za/news/Wireless/11099.html/

Re:Blind test.

[Anonymous Coward]

This article leaves out important info. Did they cut the power entirely or was it in some standby mode, possibly a microwave relay between masts. Was the other towers in the area performing identical to how they worked before the rashes turned up?

Also that case shows how sick people are often treated. If a person has frequent nausea, headaches, rashes and all the stuff it mentions, there likely is a reason. They came up with the radio tower. Assuming it really was off, then the big question is why did the people still suffer? Was the water contaminated? Was there a disease, which spreads from person to person? There are plenty of potential causes, but as long as everybody looks at a single radio tower, other potential causes aren't investigated and there is a real risk that people really do get sick in the area and are told that they make it up.

Re:Blind test.

[Gliscameria]

Exactly. Just shut off the SSID broadcast and watch the kid heal before your eyes.

Re:Blind test.

[tsotha]

I once had an HVAC guy tell me it's pretty common for people in that business to install unconnected thermostats in buildings where people complain about the temperature. Then the complaints stop.

Re:Blind test.

[freeze128]

I used to work in a building that had a thermostat that did nothing. Believe me, the complaints continued.

Re:Blind test.

[Technician]

Some cell tower companies and ham radio operators moving into elite neighbourhoods with high lawyer representation often will pre build the expansion and not install the equipment to collect baseline data and use the new complaints and lawsuits as baseline of the pre existing conditions. It's hard to make a case against the new cell tower or ham radio operator when the court case reveals to the plaintiffs the only operating device is the obstruction beacon.

Later when the equipment arrives and is installed, the community is not informed. Only then can the real cases be identified. Most of the time, the numbers are in the 0's.

If you put up a tower in a nice neighbourhood, make it look nice. Leave it unpowered for a few months. Reduce power on nearby towers to make marginal areas worse. Offer better signal by upgrades to nearby towers. Switch on the new tower to cover the poor coverage areas. Result, more even signal coverage with fewer towers running high power to reach into dead zones.

Re:Blind test.

[Anonymous Coward]

That, and the ones that are connected have a +/-2 degree swing at the most. They can adjust the thermostat until the cows go MOOOOO (because HVAC is for cows, amirite?), but they're never going to get the setpoint to change beyond +/- 2 degrees.

Re:Blind test.

[BobbyWang]

But the believers in the placebo thermostat will step in and defend it, and thus absorb much the complaints.

Re:Blind test.

[Coren22]

I have this issue. My desk is 5 feet from a thermostat that does nothing, and my desk is ALWAYS cold. In the summer I wear a sweatshirt to be comfortable. I would prefer that HVAC guys would actually do their job, as the point of climate control systems is to be comfortable, not make people work in too cold or too hot temperatures.

Re:Blind test.

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess they've never heard of clothes? If you're a temperature sensitive wimp, wear more or less clothes until you stop moaning.

Re:Blind test.

[Anonymous Coward]

I was recently asked to look at a card swipe system at a business. The complaint was that when exiting the building and pressing the door's request to exit buttons, there would be a "too long" delay before the door would unlock (typically about a second) and people would walk into the door. When I arrived on site I checked the wiring and poked around (the proper solution I usually employ in this situtation is a new button which cuts the power to the lock as well as send the request to exit signal to the board, which shortens the delay and actually solves things) to see how much it would cost to solve. I sent the quote to the management, and that afternoon got an email from one of the employees thanking me so much for improving the system. I still sent them bill...

commentsubjectsaredumb

[Falos]

Show me where a licensed professional made a "EMHS syndrome" diagnosis.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[ArmoredDragon]

I'm sure you'll find one somewhere, but that doesn't mean it was the correct diagnosis.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[hawguy]

Show me where a licensed professional made a "EMHS syndrome" diagnosis.

From TFA:

The physician who diagnosed G, Dr. Jeanne Hubbuch, said in a letter to the school last year that EHS was the only possibility that explains the symptoms.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[MightyMartian]

There was a "licensed professional" going around making claims about MMR vaccine. You can find a "licensed professional" to agree with any position you care to take. I'm sure there are probably dozens of GPs in the Continental US who will declare WiFi signals are poisonous. Hell, there are probably dozens of GPs in the Continental United States who will swear on a bible that common weeds cure cancer.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[konohitowa]

You know what they call the person that graduates from med school at the very bottom of their class? Doctor.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[ganjadude]

sounds like a doctor needs to have his license taken away

the ONLY possibility???

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[JillElf]

But, but Dr. Jeanne Hubbach is Board Certified in Family Practice and Environmental Medicine. Other tidbits (according to the Massachusetts Network of Information Providers for People with Disabilities), she apparently doesn't accept any type of insurance treats everything from asthma to Agent Orange. Seriously though, the poster that elsewhere suggested the family in question move to homestead in Alaska has the right idea. It's a beautiful place. They can replace the nonsensical danger of WiFi with moose and bear.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[Nutria]

https://www.disabilityinfo.org/mnip/db/mddb/ResourceDetail.aspx?type=1&id=2344

Specializes in treatment of chronic illness through an intergrative approach.

IOW, fake medicine.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[jtownatpunk.net]

Jeanne is generally a woman's name.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[Anonymous Coward]

The doctor has every "alternative" medicine category listed on her website, and strangely enough, she doesn't accept any form of insurance. I guess when people pay cash, she's willing to tell people whatever they want to hear and she doesn't have to worry about an insurance company questioning her care.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[ganjadude]

good catch, i overlooked the first name and only looked at the last. bad habit i got

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[Nutria]

Even "better":
http://drhubbuch.com/

Her interest in health and assisting her patients take control of their own health began with her work in the Womenâ(TM)s Self Help Health Movement.

Even more better than better...

Dr. Hubbuch is a member of the American Academy of Environmental Medicine

But the AAEM is not recognized by the American Board of Medical Specialties, and is mentioned in Quackwatch.
http://www.abms.org/member-boa...
http://www.quackwatch.org/04Co...

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[Anonymous Coward]

Treats cancer with "complex" homeopathy. fuckin' Christ.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[Immerman]

Oddly enough there is a fair amount of evidence that common Weed does have anti-carcinogenic properties. As well as anti-epileptic and several other useful medicinal properties. Maybe there was a reason reason you could get it at every corner pharmacy before it was made illegal?

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[UncleTogie]

My personal favorite:

Different tests are used to assess the regulatory ability of the body such as Heart Rate Variability, line cell analysis. The dental impacts on health are also assessed. Treatments include diet/nutrition, intestinal balancing, sauna, IV nutrients, complex homeopathy as well as herbs, vitamins, minerals, and enzymes. Healing requires a commitment to change. An individual needs to be willing to participate in their healing. The goal is to remove toxins or blockages and allow the body to heal itself.

How she's not been reported to her state's medical board is beyond me.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[Nutria]

How she's not been reported to her state's medical board is beyond me.

This is why:
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-trojan-horse-called-integrative-medicine-arrives-at-another-medical-school/
The Faculty of Medicine and the Leslie Dan Faculty of Pharmacy at the University of Toronto seek a Director to lead their new interdisciplinary program in complementary and integrative medicine

This plus ISIS plus "crystal power" plus conservative Christianity (note the commonalities between them?) is a sure sign that the end of the modern word is soon at hand. I grieve for my children and their (not yet) children.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[tompaulco]

My personal favorite:

Different tests are used to assess the regulatory ability of the body such as Heart Rate Variability, line cell analysis. The dental impacts on health are also assessed. Treatments include diet/nutrition, intestinal balancing, sauna, IV nutrients, complex homeopathy as well as herbs, vitamins, minerals, and enzymes. Healing requires a commitment to change. An individual needs to be willing to participate in their healing. The goal is to remove toxins or blockages and allow the body to heal itself.

How she's not been reported to her state's medical board is beyond me.

Wow, the defense needs to present this in court so her diagnosis can be laughed out the door. This woman is practicing superstition, not medicine.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[tompaulco]

The doctor has every "alternative" medicine category listed on her website, and strangely enough, she doesn't accept any form of insurance. I guess when people pay cash, she's willing to tell people whatever they want to hear and she doesn't have to worry about an insurance company questioning her care.

Insurance companies only pay for western medicinal treatment, not witch doctorin'.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[phantomfive]

How much do you want to bet this poor kid is in a private school because his parents wanted to avoid vaccinations?

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[isdnip]

There may also be some doctors who will swear on a weed that the bible cures cancer.

Well, doctor of divinity from some bumpkin bible college someplace in Dixie.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[Nutria]

Possibly.

Not where I live, though. The parochial schools that I send my kids to (public schools here are b-a-d) mandate vaccinations.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[nbauman]

Show me where a licensed professional made a "EMHS syndrome" diagnosis.

From TFA:

The physician who diagnosed G, Dr. Jeanne Hubbuch, said in a letter to the school last year that EHS was the only possibility that explains the symptoms.

Q: Tell me, Dr. Hubbuch, how do you know it couldn't be aliens sending space rays?

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[hondo77]

But, but Dr. Jeanne Hubbach is Board Certified in Family Practice and Environmental Medicine.

Turns out that the Family Practice (actually, "Family Medicine") board certification is real. The "Environmental Medicine" certification is total quackitude.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[tomknight]

And this physician also also seems to prescribe homeopathic "medicine" for cancer.

Surely there's a homeopathic treatment available for EHS?

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[cusco]

There are hundreds (if not thousands) of GPs in the US that will swear on a bible that the bible itself will cure cancer.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[goose-incarnated]

You know what they call the person that graduates from med school at the very bottom of their class? Doctor.

A comment above this links to the good doctors profile - apparently she provides homepathic remedies.... Make of that what you will.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[Bob the Super Hamste]

But what about her use of magnets in treatment? Also does she subscribe to the General Ripper school of water treatment?

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[Bob the Super Hamste]

Reminds me of the standard quip:

Q: What do you call alternative medicine that works?
A: Medicine

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[Anonymous Coward]

At least you are not fixated on the idea that the only possibility is that the doctor is male and the exhibited symptoms are that his parents named him incorrectly.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[Anonymous Coward]

You they call discarding the bottom 10% to improve results until you are left with 9 people but need 20? I don't know but I do know it's something idiots who don't grasp how the world works do.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, so soda water is the secret cure for everything! That's why it was at every corner pharmacy before Big Soda replaced it with sugary drinks deliberately designed to slowly kill you.

And heroin. Great against the blues. Bayer wouldn't put that in pharmacies if it wasn't a miracle.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[Dinghy]

You know what they call the person that graduates from med school at the very bottom of their class? Doctor.

You know what they call the person that flunked out of med school? Homeopathic Doctor.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[JillElf]

Well looking at the site, I would not be heading to her for a diagnosis. I had already pegged her as a fruitcake at "Environmental Medicine." The Agent Orange was just the icing on the cake for me. It's nice when the nuttiness is easy to spot.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[Immerman]

I won't make the argument that pharmacy behavior indicates a valid scientific endorsement of a drug, that would be stupid. I'm only stating that when a common "cure all" of days past has since been scientifically shown to have dramatic medicinal properties on a large number of fronts, maybe it was included on the shelves for good reason.

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[Anonymous Coward]

complex homeopathy

What THE HELL is "complex" homeopathy? Fractional dilutions?

Re:commentsubjectsaredumb

[Willuz]

She also doesn't accept any insurance or medicare. Most likely because the insurance companies don't pay for sham diagnoses or treatments.

No medical evidence...

[rahvin112]

There is no scientific medical evidence that such a condition exists and their claims should be tossed until such a time that such a sensativity can be proven to exist. They should be encouraged to move to Alaska and homestead like all the other idiots that think they have this "disease".

Re:No medical evidence...

[Darinbob]

I work in a building full of equipment broadcasting on several different bands all day long, not just the few piddly wi-fi routers. It seems that every day I come to work I spend the day completely depressed, but I cheer up again when I go home at night. My only conclusion is that RF causes depression.

Re:No medical evidence...

[DamonHD]

Strange, I get depressed when spending prolonged periods at, or communicating with, HR departments. This 'H' radiation is clearly bad and can tunnel over telephone links too.

Rgds

Damon

Re:No medical evidence...

[alvinrod]

You've got it backwards. It's the driving home that cheers people up. That's why so many people in traffic call me "Buddy" all the time.

Re:No medical evidence...

[Bob the Super Hamste]

I believe copious amount of grain alcohol taken orally can also be used to treat this condition.

Re:No medical evidence...

[Anonymous Coward]

or you just don't like your job?

Stupidity Hypersensitivity Disorder

[Anonymous Coward]

Can the other students sue them for aggravating their stupidity hypersensitivity disorder by exposing their child to the rest of the school and ask for classrooms without that family present?

If I were the lawyer, I'd hide a wireless router, powered on, under the desk and see if they ever detected it.

It's not the WiFi.

[garryknight]

WiFi sickness? Are you kidding me? They should be suing the unicorns that really cause it.

Re:It's not the WiFi.

[Jason Levine]

It's not all unicorns, though. Just the invisible pink ones. You've got to watch out for them.

electromagnetic hypersensitivity syndrome?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've heard there's a law firm in Albuquerque, New Mexico that specializes in legal cases involving EHS. I believe the firm is named Hamlin, Hamlin & McGill.

Re:electromagnetic hypersensitivity syndrome?

[techno-vampire]

There's another one in Los Angeles: Dewey, Cheatham and Howe.

Oh dear

[viperidaenz]

I hope they don't have any cell phones in their house.
I hope they don't use a microwave.
I hope they don't live near any cell towers.
I hope they don't live near any TV or radio transmitters

What would be funny is if they had turned off WiFi in his classes and not told them, and they continued to complain.

Re:Oh dear

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot Plasma TVs

http://www.dxengineering.com/techarticles/lightningandrfiinfo/plasma-tv-mother-of-all-rfi-producers

Re:Oh dear

[sectokia]

And that's just radio radiation. What about the more harmful tradition?

What about electric heaters? They spew the much more harmful infra red radiation.

What about light bulbs? They spew the much more harmful visible spectrum radiation.

What a sun light? It contains the much more harmful ultra violet radiation.

Re:Oh dear

[Anonymous Coward]

In blinded tests, people who profess to suffer from EMF sensitivity can't tell when the radio source is on or off.

-S

Re:Oh dear

[Darinbob]

I remember a forum comment complaining about RF from smart meters, how it was causing headaches and also interfered with their baby monitor.

Re:Oh dear

[wbr1]

Let's add RC Toys, garage door openers, home automation devices... if it is not frequency specific radio and tv towers, any electrical lines, wires,, outlets, etc.

Re:Oh dear

[Anonymous Coward]

And that's just radio radiation. What about the more harmful tradition?

You mean television radiation?

Re:Oh dear

[viperidaenz]

There are a few types of smart meters
Some send data over the power lines, not much RF radiation there.
Some respond to a signal from a meter reading van when it drives by, like a long range RFID signal. Only transmits when required.
Some use cellphone networks. Probably the most popular now.

I could see how a smart meter could interfere with a baby monitor though, it's CPU may be running at a frequency that causes interference with the baby monitor and coupling that in to the power line. That's a long shot though.

Re:Oh dear

[viperidaenz]

haha, yes.
Like the several kilowatts of power running in loops around their house at 50 or 60Hz, filled with harmonics from all the motors (like in a fridge) and switch-mode power supplies powering all their electronic equipment in their house.

Re:Oh dear

[Darinbob]

The ones I use transmit off and on, rather than waiting for a van, so you have periodic updates during the day. I think it's more popular than the cellular stuff (which can be expensive) though we support that for some remote areas.

Yes, it can interfere with the baby monitor. That's the irony and the joke; they were worried about the new smart meter and RF allergies even though the baby monitor was using the RF at the same frequencies.

Re:Oh dear

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

It's actually an immune response to 802.11 frames, not microwaves per se. The best way to confirm the diagnosis is to obtain some of the old pre-802.11b era gear, from when the spec still defined an IR physical layer. Then you can completely remove RF from the test environment; but still expose the subject to 802.11 frames.

Alas, finding Spectrix Inc. networking gear is pretty damn tricky these days, so it's a difficult test to perform.

Re:Oh dear

[wbr1]

I know it is anecdotal, but in the 90's I worked for a wireless cable company. They used microwave frequencies. We were one of the first to have broadband cable. DOCSIS 1.1 with a dial-up upstream. Funny setup.

Regardless out headend and transmission tower were at the top of a small mountain with tons of other towers.

This included a 250,000 watt UHF station and several smaller but still high wattage radio stations. there was an AT&T relay tower but that was all directional microwave. Our own tower transmitted at about 50 watts.

There was so much RF that a 4-foot florescent bulb held in hand would flicker. A volt meter held with probes 2-4 feet apart would register 1-7 volts, constantly varying.

Know what I felt? Nothing. No how much cancer I got? None.

My fillings did vibrate to the local rock station which was cool. (Joking)

Re:Oh dear

[Simozene]

Or if they appended '5G' to the end of their 2.4G SSID. :)

Re:Oh dear

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope they don't have any cell phones in their house.
I hope they don't use a microwave.
I hope they don't live near any cell towers.
I hope they don't live near any TV or radio transmitters

I hope they don't live around any stars.

Re:Oh dear

[JBMcB]

Cordless telephones
Bluetooth anything
Satellite radios
Satellite TV
CFLs
Light dimmers

Re:Oh dear

[Anonymous Coward]

The local radio and TV stations have a 100kW transmitter. There isn't a location where they can be far enough away to not have some kind of residual effect from that. So, either they suffer constantly, or they're full of shit.

Re:Oh dear

[Anonymous Coward]

I work with school districts and they have problems with teachers unplugging APs because of this.

So the administrators disable the status lights on the APs. Problem solved.

Re:Oh dear

[Urban Nightmare]

Same thing with ham radio antennas and towers. If you just put up a tower and don't run any coax and don't hang any antennas, you will still get tons of your neighbours complaining about TV interference.

I know there is evidence that this really isn't a problem and that it's all in their head but... Is it possible that some are harmed by RF? I want to keep an open mind about this but I also want to see some evidence that it is harmful to them.

Re:Oh dear

[viperidaenz]

You could still be causing TV interference, by blocking the signal with your tall, grounded, metal pole.

Re:Oh dear

[Anonymous Coward]

My grade school was 1/8 mile away from a 50KW AM radio station. No one got sick but the radio station bled over landlines, all other AM stations, CBs, and even the heating element in our toaster. No shit, out toaster was humming to a tune even when unplugged.

Re:Oh dear

[nbauman]

I hope they don't have any cell phones in their house.
I hope they don't use a microwave.
I hope they don't live near any cell towers.
I hope they don't live near any TV or radio transmitters

What would be funny is if they had turned off WiFi in his classes and not told them, and they continued to complain.

There was an article several years ago in the IEEE Spectrum when the health hazards of EMFs were first getting to be an issue.

They reviewed studies where people actually went around to normal homes and measured the radiation.

They found that the highest levels of EMF were in food blenders and electric razors. Much higher than the power lines in the backyards.

It's true that food blenders and electric razors are only used for short periods of time, but the best evidence for the biological effects (effects, not harm) of EMF on cells was also found when they were exposed for a short period of time.

At that time I went to a talk by Louis Slesin, publisher of Microwave News, who was promoting this idea of the harmful effects of EMF. I asked him what he thought of the IEEE Spectrum review article.

He said, "I don't want to talk about it." He kept refusing after I pressed him on it. He wouldn't tell me why he didn't want to talk about it either.

Re:Oh dear

[Anonymous Coward]

nah they can't turn off the phone signals cos the kid's smart phone wouldn't work then. he has to keep the wifi turned off but 3/4g is fine.. **falls of chair laughing at how stupid some people in this world really are.

Re:Oh dear

[cusco]

There's an antenna farm near here where we installed access control and security video. There was so much radiation that card readers couldn't work, and the weatherized piezoelectric keypads just sat there and beeped randomly. We had to dig up old-school contact-switch keypads and make a housing for them. The neighbors who lived just outside the gate were in their 80s and had lived there most of their adult lives without any issues.

My folks used to know a farming couple who lived across a small field from an inner-circle DEW Line radar station. The only problem they ever had was that they apparently had problems with color TVs failing almost immediately, so they had to stay with their old tube-based black and white set until the DEW Line was finally shut down.

Re:Oh dear

[Anonymous Coward]

See, what they should do is cover up AP lights and tell them the WiFi is turned off.
Being Anti-WiFi family, they likely don't use anything with WiFi either, so they'll not be able to check. ("but my phones aren't Wireless!")
Throw a few ethernet cables around just to humor them as well. The expense for a few connections in his class would be worth it.

Then in a few months, "hey Billy, the WiFi has been on all this time you were in class. See that AP, lights covered, all of them, covered."
Watch as the kid spergs out over nothing yet again.

They'll never win. If they do win, nuke the place so the stupid doesn't spread.

Re:Oh dear

[sabbede]

That's happened. I think it was a cell tower. Residents were complaining about the supposed health effects, so they turned it off but didn't tell anyone. Complaints continued.

Re:Oh dear

[greenfruitsalad]

that's a stupid comment. if you stand next to a nuclear reactor, you can't tell you'll be dead in 2 days.

Re:Oh dear

[Anonymous Coward]

If I tell you that I have turned on the wifi (but havent) and you complain that it is making you sick (Its obviously not) then it is psychosomatic.

Your comment was the stupid one.

Better

[Anonymous Coward]

Call Saul

Stress?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe the kid just gets stressed out at school.

Attempt at Limiting Use of Location Tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm unbiased regarding location tracking services in public institutions like schools. Unless you are tracking loaned out electronic devices, I don't see the point. Poor defense, that person would get mutilated if they stepped outside with such "syndrome". If such condition existed (which who knows perhaps?) I would not want to live in a developed country if I cared for my health. And, with that note what's the point? Nice try, but needs a better tactic.

Dumber than Anti-Vaxxers

[Anonymous Coward]

WiFi affects them but cellular networks don't?

Radio waves don't?

Sunlight doesn't?

Re:Dumber than Anti-Vaxxers

[Austerity Empowers]

He's clearly allergic to the 5GHz ISM band.

Re:Dumber than Anti-Vaxxers

[viperidaenz]

Not just 5GHz, it's OFDM modulation he's allergic to.

That way he can claim it's wifi in both 2.4 and 5GHz bands, but still have no problem with cellphones/towers, microwaves or TV antennas.

Re:ADA act? What's their disability

[Dr_Barnowl]

More like social anxiety.

I get it. School can be shit. Much easier to blame WiFi than it is to admit that you find the social environment at school daunting and unpleasant.

I suffer from Bullshit-Intolerance Syndrome

[xeno]

My condition causes me significant discomfort around people who say aggressively stupid things, internalize and repeat strange diagnoses they read on the internet, and causes me to have thoughts of self-harm when listening to security software vendor presentations. I have repeatedly asked my employer to accommodate my needs stemming from Bullshit-intolerance Syndrome (BS), but they all just say, "that's bullshit, we won't tolerate that" to which I say "yes, that's my problem too." Perhaps I also suffer from Jackass Impulsive Recursive Comment (JIRC) disorder, but they don't want to hear about that either. I'm gonna sue.

Re:I suffer from Bullshit-Intolerance Syndrome

[linear a]

...t, and causes me to have thoughts of self-harm when listening to ....

Subst(self, other)

Re:I suffer from Bullshit-Intolerance Syndrome

[Anonymous Coward]

I find that stupid people trigger my Tourettes, I know I am repeatedly heard swearing after I have had to deal with stupid people.

Sometimes even the memory of stupid people can trigger the same explosive words like "F$%king stupid F%$king W&%ker"

F%$K, there i go again, I need F%$king compo, about $10 million should do it.

Here's to bullshit!

[DaMattster]

Last time I checked, the earth has a certain amount of naturally occurring electromagnetic fields. In of itself, that would nullify any EHS argument.

Re:Here's to bullshit!

[nedlohs]

Last time I checked, the earth has a certain amount of naturally occurring radioactive elements. In of itself, that would nullify any argument that plutonium might harm you.

No, what nullifies it is that in a double blind experiment the symptoms will not correlate with the presence wifi routers and so on.

Re:Here's to bullshit!

[John Bokma]

Same is true for radioactivity....

Re:Here's to bullshit!

[__aabppq7737]

just saying: natural external radiation beats man-made https://cernatschool.web.cern....

No show in court...

[RJFerret]

...since the courthouse will be filled with not just wifi, but other radio waves too. *smh

Re:ADA act? What's their disability

[almechist]

Overactive placebo gland?

Indeed, their doctor should administer a placebo blocker immediately!

Classic Nocebo Effect

[Anonymous Coward]

Psychosomatic illness

Re:ADA act? What's their disability

[aaron4801]

Cyberchondria

Too be fair

[nedlohs]

The parents are apparently mentally disabled.

Re:Too be fair

[fustakrakich]

So is any judge that would entertain the case.

The kids full name...

[Anonymous Coward]

... is 802.11 G

Re:The kids full name...

[Anonymous Coward]

probably he suffers from chronic packet loss when in presence of other 2.4ghz signals...

Re:The kids full name...

[Calydor]

That's called being a teenager.

Re:The kids full name...

[thegarbz]

... is 802.11 G

It's quite natural for him to be extremely impressed. In every test at the school the other kid 802.11 N was shown to be faster, better and able to go further. 802.11 G will always be in second place and that takes its mental toll.

Re:The kids full name...

[__aabppq7737]

according to the article, he's 12

...better call Saul?

[Midnight_Falcon]

Seriously, this "electromagnetic hypersensitivity" is part of the plot of Better Call Saul, in that his brother is a hypochondriac recluse who stays shielded from EM...but it's not a real disorder. It's a psychiatric one.

As to what lawyer decided to make a real life case out of this after watching the show too much, I'm not sure..

Re:...better call Saul?

[Kjella]

As to what lawyer decided to make a real life case out of this

Presumably one not working on contingency. Because as long as they're making up medical fiction and not asking him to make up legal fiction, I'd be willing to bill these crazies until they run out of money.

Re:...better call Saul?

[jtownatpunk.net]

Works on contingency? No, money down!

(I know the punctuation is wrong but I didn't write the bit.)

Re:...better call Saul?

[cusco]

Private boarding school full of elite wankers, their lawyer probably spends most of his day fighting off the competition trying to get at the parents.

Needs to move to Green Bank, WV

[hawguy]

How can he be sensitive to Wifi, but not to the rest of the ubiquitous RF emissions that surround us all? Cellular signals, commercial radio+TV, microwave ovens, radar, etc.

Sounds like he needs to move to The Town Without Wifi

Re:Needs to move to Green Bank, WV

[ancientt]

Of course it isn't Wifi that is causing the problem, but there are problems here. Taking up the court's time and spending money on the lawsuit is obviously not going to solve the real problem, but it's also obvious that the parents (at least) believe the problem is real. Imagine that your child is suffering and someone you respect tells you the problem is something that is not too hard to solve, and following that advice seems to work. It's easy to see how you could become convinced that the problem is real and that you understand the cause. Then when you try to get other people to take reasonable actions in order to accommodate your needs, pretty much everyone laughs off your problem.

I'm sure it sucks to be in their shoes too. There are so many things I interact with every day that I don't really understand that it's not hard for me to accept that I am likely completely wrong about how I think some of them work. It's even likely that there are things I'm sure I understand that I'm actually wrong about.

How do you convince someone that something they adamantly believe is wrong? If this and other forums I've seen on the internet were the sole standard, I could only believe it is impossible. I guess what I'm saying is, even while you can be certain the real problem isn't Wifi sensitivity, there is a saddening lack of empathy displayed in this discussion.

Re:Needs to move to Green Bank, WV

[hawguy]

Of course it isn't Wifi that is causing the problem, but there are problems here. Taking up the court's time and spending money on the lawsuit is obviously not going to solve the real problem, but it's also obvious that the parents (at least) believe the problem is real.

Or imagine that the parents' intense believe that the problem is real is making the child manifest symptoms when otherwise he would not have any problem at all.

Blind studies fail

[silas_moeckel]

Blind studies with control groups fail. It's not a fscking anything it's a flavor of hypochondriac, he needs counseling and possibly some psych meds.

Re:Blind studies fail

[Anonymous Coward]

The parents need this, not their victim child.

Re:Blind studies fail

[GoodNicksAreTaken]

He wasn't bothered until they "doubled the prior emissions" to 5Ghz!

From TFA:

Specifically, the Aerohive Network doubled the prior emissions in Fay classrooms from 2.5 GHz to 5 GHz.1 Exposure to the emissions from the highdensity Wi-Fi now used by Fay is dangerous to persons having an aggravated sensitivity to those emissions, as will be explained in more detail further below.

Re:Blind studies fail

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

If the people putzing around with 60GHz systems ever make it out of the embryonic phase('WirelessHD' has actually shipped a handful of devices; but is a likely proprietary dead-end; the 'Wireless Gigabit Alliance' as an insufferably stupid name and little or nothing you can actually buy; but has the support of the Wifi people and thus some hope of being a useful short-range-but-very-fast interoperable addition to 2.4 and 5 GHz networking), this kid is really going to have a bad time...

Re:Blind studies fail

[silas_moeckel]

You can not fix stupid.

Upgrade the child

[Nkwe]

The child, identified only as "G" in court documents

Well there is the problem. If the child identified himself as "N", there wouldn't be a conflict and the kid would learn faster.

Re:Upgrade the child

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody learns faster than me!

~AC

Re:Upgrade the child

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish I had mod points. ROFL!

Re:Upgrade the child

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe they have old Routers that do not Support "G".

They may need to Downgrade the Child.

Tinfoil hats

[mveloso]

This is why you make a tinfoil hat: to keep the radio waves out of your head. It's simple to do, and as a bonus the voices stop.

Re:Tinfoil hats

[techno-vampire]

That's a great idea, but you have to make sure that it's shiny-side out. You only make it shiny-side in if you're trying to keep your thoughts from leaking out where other people can read them.

Re:Tinfoil hats

[TechyImmigrant]

This is why you make a tinfoil hat: to keep the radio waves out of your head. It's simple to do, and as a bonus the voices stop.

Most people screw up and make an aluminium foil hat.

Re:Tinfoil hats

[R3d M3rcury]

It's simple to do, and as a bonus the voices stop.

Maybe for you. But my neighbor's dog just won't shut up, no matter what kind of hat I wear...

Re:Tinfoil hats

[Githyanki]

Mine is double layered. Outside shiny to keep the radio/control waves out, shiny on the inside to keep my thoughts from getting out for them to read.

You're missing the point.....

[tinkerghost]

People this stupid and anti science have enough money to send their child to a boarding school AND bring a frivolous lawsuit.

Re:You're missing the point.....

[Anonymous Coward]

Wonder if they have a microwave in their house? Or any CFL?

Re:You're missing the point.....

[amicusNYCL]

Stupid anti-science people also have enough money to fund presidential campaigns, influence elections, buy laws, and build mega-churches. It's nothing new.

Re:You're missing the point.....

[tompaulco]

Wonder if they have a microwave in their house? Or any CFL?

No doubt they have WiFi. That's why they had to send their kid to boarding school.

Re:You're missing the point.....

[Anonymous Coward]

good point. where the hell did people that thick get their money?

Where to even start?

[Anubis IV]

First off, it's a boarding school, which means that you are choosing to send your child there. Don't like the service they offer? Pull them out and send them to another one, or take advantage of the free, public education provided the state of Massachusetts.

Second, what disability? Every study done has either come back inconclusive or contrary to the notion that this disease exists. Every anecdote I've personally heard has indicated that these people have an accuracy not statistically significantly different from a coin flip when it comes to accurately identifying when WiFi is around in blind tests.

Third, is it really only an issue at school? Every Starbucks and McDonald's has free WiFi at this point, and they're on practically every street corner in America at this point. If your issue is with WiFi, you have bigger problems.

Fourth, 2.4 or 5GHz? Because they're just radio waves, so it kinda makes a difference...or is it just any WiFi at all? Would you still have this disability if we switched WiFi to use the same frequencies as TV or CB radio? Because WiFi?

Ugh, these people.

Re:Where to even start?

[Archangel Michael]

Personally, I think boarding schools shows a complete lack of parenting skills. The kid probably wants to go home.

Re:Where to even start?

[jtownatpunk.net]

Why would the kid want to live with the people who sent them to boarding school?

Re:Where to even start?

[mark-t]

Does the fact that something may only be in a person's mind mean that it is not real?

Is Schizophrenia not real? Is Autism not real?

My point is not to marginalize groups with such conditions, but to point out that issues that comprise a person's psychology, are anything *BUT* unreal to the person who must live with it and endure it daily.

While all the available evidence based on the numerous double blind studies suggests that EHS is clearly psychosomatic... I would suggest that does not mean it is not real. A person's body can react just as badly to psychosomatic symptoms as it may to external physiological influences. I would suggest, however, that such a condition should not be the school board's problem until we can find some way to treat the fundamental psychological condition that causes such things.

Re:Where to even start?

[viperidaenz]

It's only electromagnetic radiation in the unlicensed ISM bands. That way they can still enjoy TV and cellphones.

Re:Where to even start?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, yes it does mean it:s not real.
Schizophrenia is real, the delusions caused by it are not.
Autism is real, and I can:t even see how that could be relevant in any manner so i can:t make a snarky reply.
Noones marginalizing anything, you tumblerinas seriously need to stop punishing mentally ill people by saying their delusions are real.

Re:Where to even start?

[BTWR]

Poor analogy. Schizophrenia is an organic disease that affects neurotransmitter levels (hence the medical therapies). It is every-bit as real as diabetes.

Re:Where to even start?

[mark-t]

So maybe the psychosomatic symptoms of EHS are caused by something in the brain that we don't fully understand. Again, I'm fully aware that these symptoms are entirely the result of delusion, but even knowing that something is psychosomatic is not always enough to offset the physiological symptoms your body might endure from it. You can intellectually know something to be true, but that doesn't mean that the part of your brain that is producing the physiological reactions akin to real physical symptoms is actually listening. You can fully know that you are schizophrenic, even to the point of realizing that something is a delusion, but that doesn't help the delusions go away, or make the experience of it any less real for the person suffering from it.

Re:Where to even start?

[reve_etrange]

There's a little accidental dualism here. All mental processes are their neurochemical correlates. Illnesses with psychosocial causes are physically real even if their causes are psychosocial.

Re:Where to even start?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know a child who went to boarding school out of choice, and loved it; you seem to assume it's abusive, but boarding schools offer great learning environments, and it can be a great choice.

Re:Where to even start?

[Anonymous Coward]

I went to a private school. My parents gave me the option. I compared with my friends what I learned and what they learned. Overall it was about the same. Now in some areas (like where I live now) the public schools suck. Like rank lowest 5 in the nation YoY bad. My children will not be getting the 'option'.

I also ended up going to school with 'bad parenting skills kids'. As they were basically thrown out of the public school system (and to pull that off you usually had to fuck up big). Usually as you point out it was bad parenting. But they usually had an uphill battle just to have time to deal with a kid. Usually having 2 jobs and on top of that coming up with the extra money for their kid to goto school. Usually by the end of the year they had straightened out a bit. As the more ridged structure is what they needed.

Boarding school is usually the last resort. Not their first. It usually goes public->private->boarding.

My point? A shitty situation is not made better by judging others. You are only caring about the kids. But what about the parent who has to deal with the clepto kid with 3 MIPs and has just been arrested again because he decided to steal a car? Not because he need money. Just because he wanted to see what it was like or wanted to 'have fun with is friends'. I have met a few of these over the years. The whole family is usually a train wreck. My dad tried to help this one kid out. He would not listen. He would take him to school. Make sure he did homework. Just like he did with me. The kid just would not listen. Last I heard he was doing 4-10 for GTA (his 5th offense). Sometimes people are just born to be jerks.

Re:Where to even start?

[Rakarra]

Hey, Harry Potter went a boarding school, and Hogwarts was awesome. A bunch of kids died, but the other benefits were fantastic.
He didn't want to go back home either.

Re:ADA act? What's their disability

[msauve]

Actually, a large dosage of heavy metal solutions administered IV will help block the RF, and is guaranteed to solve the root cause.

What a bunch of stupid Republicans

[Anonymous Coward]

They hate science, as their xian religion demands, so they don't understand anything. They just lash out and attack like scared animals. That is what they're acting like. Scared animals. Their kind just doesn't think logically.

Re:What a bunch of stupid Republicans

[Anonymous Coward]

Logically, President Trump!

Re:What a bunch of stupid Republicans

[DewDude]

I don't know why you were scored zero; because you do have a point. The same people that claim they suffer from wi-fi sickness have the intelligence of a herd animal. They see a fad, they jump on it. Hey, I get massive headaches on a regular basis as well; I don't blame the wifi...I probably have a tumor in the brain. Ignorance is bliss.

Re:What a bunch of stupid Republicans

[tompaulco]

They hate science, as their xian religion demands, so they don't understand anything. They just lash out and attack like scared animals. That is what they're acting like. Scared animals. Their kind just doesn't think logically.

Please produce the documents which prove that these people are Republicans and Christians and not just whatever kind of stupid worthless waste of carbon that you are.

Re:What a bunch of stupid Republicans

[spitzak]

I believe the "stupid Republicans" posts are a troll, possibly from somebody who is actually right-wing. They are designed to look like they are posted by as stupid a person as possible. Have seen a couple equally ludicrous ones for the opposite direction, though they tend to use "Liberals" rather than "Democrats". Sometimes they use the exact same wording as the republican attack. Not as common, however, for whatever that means.

Re:What a bunch of stupid Republicans

[Bob the Super Hamste]

He I get massive headaches fairly regularly. It seems to correlate to going through caffeine withdrawals though when I don't get my daily fix.

Re:What a bunch of stupid Republicans

[Bob the Super Hamste]

Well given that they are in Massachusetts one could probably correctly make the statement that they are stupid Democrats. Although this type of stupid seem to cross party lines pretty evenly just like the anti-vax stupidity.

Re:What a bunch of stupid Republicans

[spitzak]

You are right, one of the features of these "Republican" posts is they often are done for regions or groups that are certainly *not* Republican. This is probably the clearest indication that these are troll posts.

Doctor's diagnosis

[Anonymous Coward]

From the article:

The physician who diagnosed G, Dr. Jeanne Hubbuch, said in a letter to the school last year that EHS was the only possibility that explains the symptoms.

Re:Doctor's diagnosis

[DarkSkiez]

From that physicians website

She treats cancer with homeopathy. "Supportive Care for Cancer: Possible treatments include: Complex homeopathy"

This makes me sad.

Re:Doctor's diagnosis

[Anonymous Coward]

seriously... fuck this "doctor", taking advantage of naive people, who may also be desperate enough to try anything, including a stressful regimen of effectively-nothing.

Re:Doctor's diagnosis

[Darinbob]

Her entire page is a buzzword soup of alternative hooey. I'll trust chicken soup before I trust her.

Re:Doctor's diagnosis

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

About the nicest thing you can say is that cancer patients probably should drink water; and have good reasons to drink alcohol, so some homeopathic 'remedies' may accidentally be useful...

Re:Doctor's diagnosis

[Anonymous Coward]

homeopathy = Contains No Active ingredients.

Unless the inert ingredients where changed at the Quantum level?????
That would actually be cool.

Re:Doctor's diagnosis

[Aboroth]

Try to look at the silver lining. This kind of practice is perhaps the reason Steve Jobs is dead today, which makes the world a better place!

Re:Doctor's diagnosis

[F.Ultra]

Atleast it was "complex" homeopathy. Wonder what that means though, even more diluted than normal perhaps?

Re:Doctor's diagnosis

[tehcyder]

About the nicest thing you can say is that cancer patients probably should drink water; and have good reasons to drink alcohol, so some homeopathic 'remedies' may accidentally be useful...

I think everyone should definitely drink water, regardless of their medical condition, but I'm not sure what alcohol has to do with homeopathy.

Re:Doctor's diagnosis

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

It is one of the possible solvents for the serial dilution and 'succussion' thing that homeopaths do to produce their quack juice. Not as common as water; but it is an option that counts as 'homeopathic' if prepared according to the rest of the procedures.

Solubility doesn't matter much by the time you get to the end product, since basically anything is soluble enough in anything for concentrations in the 'modest probability that a single atom is present' range; but for the original solution and the first few dilutions, some materials just don't dissolve in water very well; but do nicely in alcohol.

Re:Doctor's diagnosis

[Anonymous Coward]

That makes me angry. IF something is worth a death sentence, it's that. Just imagine some kid who could actually survive cancer if treated, but instead his parents take him to this quack who makes him drink water and think happy thoughts.

Re:Doctor's diagnosis

[Anonymous Coward]

Billions of dollars spent on cancer research and treatments by the "medical" community and you still can't cure cancer???? Look at how far we've come in every other area of technology, and people are still getting so sick! Why do you think more and more people are turning to alternative therapies?

Re:Doctor's diagnosis

[Rakarra]

The problem with homeopathic 'remedies' that the person may delay getting real treatment under the presumption that they were already receiving treatment.

There is no such thing

[confused one]

There is no such thing as electromagnetic hypersensitivity syndrome.

I propose a test

[hAckz0r]

Invite the child with parents back to the school for conference. Take 10 school rooms at random and place computer equipment in each, all unplugged with no powered up WiFi, but not obviously so. Bring them around to each room and have the child assess that room for their level of comfort 'in attempt to find the best learning environment for the child'. No WiFi in the entire school should be on during this period, and ask the child which rooms were better or worse, except in the conference area, place a completely hidden WiFi transmitter. Sit back and see if they can notice the difference. If the child complains about the conference room and non of the classrooms, then relent and make the required changes, otherwise document the experiment for the court system to decide.

Re:ADA act? What's their disability

[Firethorn]

Oddly, works even better when administered to the parents of the sufferer instead of directly.

The real reason

[rossz]

You precious snowflake is sick because you put him on a strick vegan diet.

Re:The real reason

[Darinbob]

What a coincidence, that's why their cat died too.

Re:The real reason

[Jason Levine]

On the upside, they did teach a lion to eat tofu.

Re:The real reason

[Coren22]

I only eat vegans too.

I'm allergic too

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a severe sensitivity to being around stupid people. Whenever I am forced to be in close proximity with morons and ignoramuses I experience shortness of breath and frequent headaches. As my rights to a stupidity-free environment a constantly being violated I will be suing my employer and the city of Los Angeles for 100 billion dollars unless my disability is recognized and appropriately cared for.

If you can show written proof that you are not a moron, you are welcome to come visit me on my new private island. Cheers!

(captcha: nonsense)

Re:I'm allergic too

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Sorry kid, 'remove the stupid people' is not a 'reasonable accommodation'; and would definitely impose undue hardship on us. No ADA-mandated action for you.

Move the WiFi

[Murdoch5]

Why not move the WiFi to a different band and channel? For instance at home I run 80 MHz, 5 GHz Chanel 13 running @AC speeds. It this child really does have some weird sensitivity, just change the WiFi around so it doesn't bother him.

Re:Move the WiFi

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't bother him now. Changing the band isn't going to do anything.

Re:Move the WiFi

[SecurityTheatre]

Ahem.

1) This child isn't sensitive to wifi
2) Changing the frequency by 0.05 Ghz wouldn't change it if he was
3) There is no channel 13 in 5Ghz.
4) Aren't you special

Re:Move the WiFi

[Murdoch5]

I might of said the wrong channel, big deal, I checked, it's actually 161, also 2.4 vs 5GHz isn't a change of 0.05, it's change of 2.6 GHz. If this kid really has some weird sensitivity to RF, the the only real thing the school can do is to change what band the WiFi operates in. If after changing it to 5 GHz the student is still effected, then kick him out and home school him.

Re:Move the WiFi

[Anonymous Coward]

It's "might have", not "might of".

Re:Move the WiFi

[CrimsonAvenger]

I might of said the wrong channel, big deal

You might have misspelled "might have" also.

Re:Move the WiFi

[Coren22]

They did. Apparently, the switch to 5 GHz is what he is complaining about, he was fine with 2.4 GHz.

I am guessing, that they switched back, and his symptoms didn't go away, so now they are trying to say the school caused the issue and wouldn't fix it.

Re:Move the WiFi

[Murdoch5]

Well in that case home school the kid. It's unrealistic to disable WiFi for all students because of a weird, one off medical issue, another student has.

Re:ADA act? What's their disability

[Anonymous Coward]

The exact medical term for his illness is called "puckering anal lodged attorney" syndrome. PALA for short.

Chronically Stupid Parents

[redshirt]

I occasionally read about parents in affluent Marin, CA whining about this. In fact, there was a movement to prevent PG&E (the local power company) from installing real-time meters that transmit usage over radio because they were afraid it could hurt them. I remember seeing a parent interviewed on the evening news, with her kid in the background playing on an iPad. Did I mention that Marin also has one of the lowest child immunization rates in the country? Yeah. These are people that get all their "facts" from Pintrest and Jenny McCarthy.

Re:Chronically Stupid Parents

[Anonymous Coward]

Sigh.

A good friend feels this way. He is convinced that my house, which has as much technology as a linux user's house really should, is choked with rays (his words).

He's also convinced that chemtrails are real and that cancer is caused by a virus and that the black part of the gov't controls both.

and yes, Marin.....

Sight.

Re:Chronically Stupid Parents

[reve_etrange]

Marin also has an abnormally high breast cancer incidence. IIRC it's somewhat more than what's explained by affluence (which increases risk somehow). Not really relevant, but it's got some unusual medical statistics aside from the EHS and immunization wackos.

Re:Chronically Stupid Parents

[reve_etrange]

A good friend feels this way. He is convinced that my house, which has as much technology as a linux user's house really should, is choked with rays (his words).

To be fair, the rays are everywhere. They're not interacting with his body, but they are there.

He's also convinced that chemtrails are real and that cancer is caused by a virus and that the black part of the gov't controls both.

Again, to be fair, a bunch of specific cancer types are caused by viruses. Cervical cancer and HPV for instance.

He's not making things up from whole cloth, but spinning partly understood fragments of truth into a delusional tapestry.

Re:Chronically Stupid Parents

[Bob the Super Hamste]

Well the commonality in all of this is that it is Marin, CA so I'll just go with that.

I have always been curious....

[Dega704]

It would be interesting to know how many of the people who flip out about WiFi have previously used 2.4GHz cordless phones without any issues.

Re:I have always been curious....

[viperidaenz]

Possibly not many
1.9GHz is more common for cordless phones

Re:I have always been curious....

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

It's the harsh, unnatural, digital modulation that causes the trouble. Good old analog transmitters, carrying Human voices, are naturally in sympathetic harmony with the body's own vital energy; and promote wellness.

Once arrogant technocrats imposed a 'binary' worldview that rejects the wholistic wisdom of the body, the transmissions became intensely disruptive to our health, and corrosive to the spirit.

Isn't it obvious?

Re:I have always been curious....

[Overzeetop]

Better yet, have ever used a microwave oven, or been in any restaurant over the past two decades.

Re:I have always been curious....

[BTWR]

2.4gHz is very common.

Amazon

Re:I have always been curious....

[Angeret]

In the UK, 2.4GHz is pretty crowded - the band is allocated to WiFi, microwave ovens and DECT cordless phones. For some really strange reason signals in our house have never had any interfering interaction, we get blistering WiFi speeds even if cooking something *and* using the landline at the same time. (Internet speedtest @ 52Mbit on my phone via WiFi, same as Internet>Ethernet and ridiculous speeds on LANWiFi.) Neither of us in the house have experienced any symptoms of any kind in relation to this supposed phenomenon or, for that matter, any other. Well, except maybe we sometimes have to close the windows in summer if the wind blows our way from the local sewage treatment plant. I don't personally know anyone who would even consider WiFi as being other than a useful. I don't know anyone who jumps in front of cars for the insurance payout either.

Maybe the kid needs a tin-foil hat and his parents a lottery win.

Re:I have always been curious....

[viperidaenz]

Perhaps that's an American thing, since you've got cell networks operating in the 1.9G band as well.
DECT is pretty much all in the 1.9G band

Re:I have always been curious....

[Anonymous Coward]

Quiet, dude, Monster will start selling wireless connections designed to smooth out and reintroduce the analogue qualities to the connection.

Re: I have always been curious....

[DariusMacSean]

Well-written but new-agey & woo woo science

Re:I have always been curious....

[Anonymous Coward]

your post makes me incredibly sad, because there are ijits out there who actually say shit like this and mean it.

Re:ADA act? What's their disability

[alannon]

I propose a novel treatment:
Seal pure water into a container and place it into a microwave oven for 1 millisecond (or a microsecond for extreme cases). Sell it as a homopathic treatment for $50/ounce.

Re:ADA act? What's their disability

[alannon]

I should have looked more carefully. Apparently the diagnosing doctor DOES provide homeopathic treatments!
http://drhubbuch.com/patient-c...

Better Call Saul

[Anonymous Coward]

His brother has this "thing" too.

Oh boy

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering WiFi sickness isn't even a recognized condition, much less a disability for the purpose of the ADA, seems the odds of failure are quite high unless they can produce evidence to support their claim. Also, the only trial I am aware of concluded there a wasn't link. Indeed, the suffers were pretty much statitisically identical to the control, with the on set of symptoms having no apparent relationship to exposure.

http://www.vox.com/2014/4/8/5592256/relax-cell-phones-and-wifi-wont-make-you-sick

this has an easily solution

[Anonymous Coward]

euthanize this kid and its parents. everyone wins.

Starbucks anyone?

[Anonymous Coward]

Have they gone to MacDonald or Starbucks, or just about any restaurant, book store, or other coffee shop lately? Did he get sick there?

Re:Starbucks anyone?

[PPH]

If the kid is that sensitive, the microwave oven down the block should make him convulse.

Re:Starbucks anyone?

[tehcyder]

If the kid is that sensitive, the microwave oven down the block should make him convulse.

Especially if dropped on his head from a great height.

While I doubt the seriousness of the claims here..

[Cthefuture]

While I doubt the seriousness of the claims here... I can understand. I can feel any 2.4 ghz radiation and some other radiation like Wacom devices (not sure what frequency they use). I have done blind tests and can scientifically prove without doubt that I can feel 2.4 ghz radiation with 100% accuracy. It feels like vibration in my nerves. It's actually kind of freaky. I have to be within an inch or two of the typical low-power radiation source to feel it though. I have to put my phone far enough away from my body (not that far) at night so that I can sleep.

Does this cause "sickness"? Well, who knows. All I do know is that 2.4 ghz radiation does without doubt interact with human tissue (and probably all water-based material). Does it affect most people? Probably not in any way. Could it cause cancer/whatever? Maybe, otherwise I wouldn't be able to actively detect it and I'm sure there are people more sensitive than me.

And yes, I'm completely willing to submit to any test anyone wants to perform. I have done so many times so far and they're always surprised that my sensory disorder is real. Yet somehow this never makes the news (I wonder why?). :/ Welcome to the life of an outlier.

How about

[sjames]

How about providing a reasonable accommodation?

So, send the kid ...

[PPH]

... to a boarding school in the NRQZ in West Virginia. Where the curriculum includes moonshine, banjo, musket marksmanship and making sissy outsiders squeal like a pig.

Re:So, send the kid ...

[Anonymous Coward]

To be fair, Banjo lessons are a completely legit form of music class and musket marksmanship could technically be either history or gym class

Mixed study results

[multimediavt]

Here's what the World Health Organization and the National Institutes of Health have to say. There was a single female individual in the NIH study that could honestly detect the initiation and termination of a field (power cycling of a device), but when one was already on (or not) she could detect nothing. Other than that, everyone seems to agree that it's mostly psychosomatic in nature and without extensive, double-blind testing the kid has very little chance of winning a diagnosis let alone the suit. I would go with something in the environment other than EMF radiation as a cause, if the little bugger is actually ill at all.

Re:Mixed study results

[multimediavt]

Another article here about a New Mexico court case that lost and lost on appeal. On precedent, I'd say the kid has a snowball's chance in Hell of winning.

Jeanne Hubbuch, M.D.

[AndyKron]

Jeanne Hubbuch, M.D. - "Utilizes integrative medical approach to treating difficult medical problems. Not a member of HMO or PPO. Specializes in treatment of chronic illness through an intergrative approach. Fibromyalgia. Dr. Hubbuch does not participate with ANY insurance company including Medicare. She is considered OUT-OF-NETWORK. Payment in full is due at the time of each visit." If it ducks like a quack...

Re:Jeanne Hubbuch, M.D.

[strstr]

She is considered an expert, and doesn't take the reduced payment of insurance plans, and also protects her clients privacy .. her medical records must be reported to the insurance company, but not during private pay cases.

These are the typical reasons doctors refuse to take insurance.

Re:Jeanne Hubbuch, M.D.

[moeinvt]

The fact that she refuses to interact with insurance companies or government bureaucrats does not, in and of itself, undermine her credibility. I agree that EHS is quackery, but many physicians are opting out of the insurance/government model of healthcare.

Stupid

[Anonymous Coward]

"look at me! I"m disabled, the world need to accommodate MY needs!"

Just some retard trying to get easy money He is disabled, so he likely will never land a job.

Re:While I doubt the seriousness of the claims her

[skirmish666]

Ok, the rest of your points aside:

Could it cause cancer/whatever? Maybe, otherwise I wouldn't be able to actively detect it

I can detect red, salt, rough, smooth, acceleration, loud, hot + many more things. Some of these are in the form of radiation. The ones I mentioned don't cause cancer/whatever. Your argument is flawed.

and I'm sure there are people more sensitive than me.

How? You'd better have some studies or you're only as sure about it as people who are sure the earth is flat. I'm open to evidence here as long as there is some.

And yes, I'm completely willing to submit to any test anyone wants to perform. I have done so many times so far and they're always surprised that my sensory disorder is real.

Dropbox + scanned image of diagnosis document + link in reply might not get you on the 6:00 news, but it's a start.

This is the kind of crap...

[DewDude]

I expect from those self-righteous, self-absorbed, uptight attitude from people like this. No one is forcing you to send your child to that school; YOU CHOOSE TO SEND YOUR CHILD TO THAT SCHOOL! Therefore, the lawsuit should be invalid on that basis; plus the claims made have zero scientific backing or acceptance in the medical community...and it just makes you look like a nutjob. The best solution would be for these people to send their child elsewhere. I mean, it's a boarding school...they obviously don't want to be parents anyway and are just looking to shrug responsibility. If they were decent parents; they'd get this child proper treatment. Seriously, a judge should look at this, decide sending the child to that school was not a requirement..and therefore no basis for lawsuit. If this was a public school...maybe...but the science would have to back up the claims...and they don't even do that.

Re:This is the kind of crap...

[eWarz]

Not true, most states have laws regarding the schools that your child(ren) is/are allowed to attend. That being said...in before this lawsuit gets thrown out.

Re:While I doubt the seriousness of the claims her

[Anonymous Coward]

If what you're saying is true, then the James Randi Foundation will pay you a million dollars to prove that you can sense 2.4 ghz signals.

Science Based Justice?

[pubwvj]

This should be very easy to test, and likely refute, with a little double blind science justice...

Vaccinate your kids...

[Anonymous Coward]

...or else they'll catch some stupid disease and grow up and sue schools for "WiFi sickness".

The cure

[Anonymous Coward]

Fortunately I have patented a cure for this affliction (AKA Electrodamper) consisting of a large plastic box with a heavy battery, a switch and blue LED light. All
the sufferer has to do is to flip the switch to build a bubble of electro-protection around themselves - relief should be immediate

Re:The cure

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, by the way, it only costs 5899.95 per unit.

Re:The cure

[tinkerghost]

Fortunately I have patented a cure for this affliction (AKA Electrodamper) consisting of a large plastic box with a heavy battery, a switch and blue LED light. All the sufferer has to do is to flip the switch to build a bubble of electro-protection around themselves - relief should be immediate

Hah, Mine is better, it produces both 2.4 & 5GHz fields with wave cancelling effects. That way, ONLY WIFI signals are blocked.

Once again

[Anonymous Coward]

...the Americans with Disabilities Act does more harm than good.

(Not that it doesn't do a lot of good, but it sure does a lot of harm.)

OT: new study needed

[NotQuiteReal]

We need to study why there are so many obnoxious, needlessly bright, blue LEDs everywhere.

Re:OT: new study needed

[danbert8]

Seriously, why does my air purifier need an LED power on indicator light? I can hear the damn thing if it is running! It shouldn't take 5 layers of duct tape to make it dark enough to sleep in my room...

Re:OT: new study needed

[tehcyder]

Just buy a small tube of black model aircraft paint. Effective, and stylish too, plus the chicks dig a guy who makes model airplanes.

MIT WIFI Study

[arthurpaliden]

There was an MIT under grad psychology study done a few years ago on the Effects of WiFi on people with WiFi sensitivity. They had a WiFi generator that had antennas, dials and blinking lights. The generator was always positioned behind the test subjects so they could not directly see if it was on or off. However, there were enough reflective surfaces on the opposing wall so the the subject could tell when it was on or off. When the generator was brought in the room and and turned on the subjects felt the effects. When it was turned off and or removed from the room the subjects felt much better.

The machine did nothing.

The ceiling of the room was loaded with active WiFi base stations that were on all the time during the tests yet the subjects only reacted when the fake WiFi generator was turned on and in the room.

Re:MIT WIFI Study

[Anonymous Coward]

Clearly Wi-Fi sickness is related to how light interacts with the signals.

That said, I've had routers and other electronics create really annoying, high pitched whining that gave me headaches. Why do none of these studies check for this? I can easily believe a sound on the very edge of their hearing could be giving them issues.

Re:MIT WIFI Study

[Anonymous Coward]

Faulty or badly designed electronics create sounds at the end of hearing. For example I had a solar panel inverter installed and when it was turned on it gave out a loud whistling noise. Nobody else could hear it, so I used a sound spectrum analyzer app, sure enough giant spike at 16.5kHz. Turns out it was a design issue that was not addressed because only 1 out of 20 clients heard it. Or I had a laptop power brick which worked great brand new, but at some point started giving a very annoying 15+kHz noise. I just replaced it with a new one. It is very easy to test for these sounds, any phone with a decent microphone can test the entire hearing range.

Science says it's all in their head...and it's rea

[Anonymous Coward]

It has nothing to do with wifi, though. They believe they're going to get sick so they do. Nocebo effect. Fortunately the cure is to apply an equal amount of BS. Which is also all in their heads and at the same time just as real. Placebos actually work. And the really bizzarre thing is they work even if the subject is told 'this is a placebo'.

Very interesting studies discussed in recent episodes of BBC Horizon.

Better Call Saul!

[khetti]

Slippin' Jimmy has experience with this very issue! Call up James and Chuck McGill and they'll have you wearing a space blanket in no time!

Doubled the Emissions?

[Anonymous Coward]

From the complaint: "...Fay installed in its classrooms and in various other facilities a new Wi-Fi system, known as the “Aerohive Wi-Fi Network....the Aerohive Network doubled the prior emissions in Fay classrooms from 2.5 GHz to 5 GHz."

I think this lawyer is confused about power and frequency.

Re:Doubled the Emissions?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, speaking about it in "wavelength" terms, it is double. Twice the amount of waves hitting you, but at the same power level.

Re:Doubled the Emissions?

[strstr]

Double the network spectrum, 2.4GHz and 5GHz.

Re:Doubled the Emissions?

[strstr]

Or even multiple 5GHz signals taking up more spectrun than the previous 2.4GHz.

Re:ADA act? What's their disability

[yzf750]

^^ This! Put this everywhere!

He is the middle child

[hydrodog]

His brother's B and N also get sick, but at difference rates.

Woo-woos don't need proof.

[jcr]

They're going to court because they believe their kid is being hurt by negligible amounts of non-ionizing electromagnetic radiation.

-jcr

Holy Crapy. What's going to happen to N? (nt)

[Anonymous Coward]

silly filter, no text means no text

Homage to Better Call Saul

[Anonymous Coward]

"G" stands for Goodman right?

Re:While I doubt the seriousness of the claims her

[Anonymous Coward]

I had not heard of this one. Signing up now. $1 million isn't really other than chicken scratch but money is money I guess. However, their methodology seems suspect. They approach from the angle that any claim in false. Well, of course, if that's your bias. And I can't find any claim by them that specifically detecting 2.4 ghz is a "paranormal" under their eye. I very seriously would subject to any test they want because I know my abilities. However, what bias are they going to apply to me? Seems dodgy on the face of it.

Nobody sells that stuff

[Overzeetop]

The money is in a rental-only model. For a mere $649/month you can get coverage of the 2.4GHz spectrum. The $929 version will cover you for 2.4 and 5GHz. Specialty versions which can cover you over the 1.6-2.2GHz LTE bands to reduce or eliminate effects of cell phone towers are $2349/mo, but include the 2.4 and 5 GHz dampers as well.

You may ask if $25k a year is expensive. The question you should really be asking is - is your health, or the health of your child, worth it?

"doctor"

[Anonymous Coward]

From the doctors website:
http://drhubbuch.com/faq.html

Q: Do you accept my insurance?
A: Dr. Hubbuch does not participate with ANY insurance company including Medicare. She is considered OUT-OF-NETWORK. Payment in full is due at the time of each visit.

Q: How open minded is Dr. Hubbuch?
A: Dr. Hubbuch is very open minded. She is willing to explore alternatives and personal preferences. Each patient is treated in an individualized manner.

you pay her to hear what you want.

Re:"doctor"

[strstr]

No, she is paid because she isn't a noob like the other doctors. Therefore she refuses to take insurance because the insurance pays less than the doctors hourly rate, and insurance overloads a doctor with too many dime a dozen patients. Next up she is unlike other doctors in that they are closed minded, limited scope, and limited training jumping to conclusions and selling specific treatments that are actually very harmful for people. She identifies as open minded, unbiased, and capable of working with any patient.

You pay for quality. There are many doctors like her. And most expert witnesses like her, the best ones anyway, don't take insurance.

obamasweapon.com

This could be an interesting precedent.

[Sertis]

I wonder what would happen if his cousin, who's sensitive to electronic signals emitted by active, electrically unterminated gigabit ethernet cables decides to attend the same school. Or his sister, who's has epileptic photosensitivity at 60hz Or his younger brother who may attend next year but is allergic to asphalt, formaldehyde, pheremones, and can't metabolize sugar.

Re:This could be an interesting precedent.

[moeinvt]

I don't understand your point. Despite the opinion of this one doctor, "electromagnetic hypersensitivity syndrome" is in much dispute and is not generally recognized by the medical community.
By contrast, photosensitive epileptic seizures are a well known and well documented phenomenon which, AFAIK, is not being disputed. These types of seizures can be repeatedly induced and observed under laboratory conditions and confirmed by changes in brainwave patterns which show up on EEGs. Typical trigger frequency is more like 20 Hz however.

If the school, for some reason, had strobe lights (even fire alarm strobes) or say malfunctioning fluorescent lights. "What would happen" is that the school would be forced to make "reasonable accommodations" like excusing the kid from disco class or replacing the alarm system.

What "precedent" is this case going to set outside the context of "EHS"?

Read as "School Sued Over Wi-Fi Suckiness"

[Anonymous Coward]

That misreading both makes more sense and as a bonus implied a less stupid world.

Re:ADA act? What's their disability

[Anonymous Coward]

That would be worthless. You obviously don't know anything about the field of homeopathy. The water needs to be DILUTED after exposure to the "like" substance so that its efficacy can be increased. Now a 10C or 100C solution of this radiation-water could be effective in curing all sorts of illnesses. If you blasted it with x-rays and gamma-rays you could probably guard against radiation poisoning!

Re:ADA act? What's their disability

[Anonymous Coward]

I should have looked more carefully. Apparently the diagnosing doctor DOES provide homeopathic treatments!
http://drhubbuch.com/patient-c...

Oh great one of the quacks that believe in Vitamin C overdose to cure cancer.

This kid surfs without a laptop?

[argee]

Just think. He can surf the internet without a computer at all!

That's nothing

[Chrisq]

My kid's school is full of invisible pink unicorns who breathe out harmful miasmas. I want compensation.

Re:While I doubt the seriousness of the claims her

[Anonymous Coward]

You're aware of the restrictions going in. You'll probably be presented with an antenna, and have to determine if it is on any number of times. You'll need to detect it with significant more accuracy than 50/50, which is the average chance you'd likely have if you simply guessed.

Going by your claims, though, you'll get 100% accuracy.

This isn't suitable for an ask Slashdot, so you should submit a whole story about it. Write a blog, and submit it to us all. We'll be waiting for your proof with vague disinterest most likely, as it's more likely to be psychosomatic.

I say this as someone who got a wifi device that caused me to have a fairly bad headache for the first day or two. I could even feel these vibrations that you talk of, right up to the point that I realised that I hadn't plugged in the other end.

Thought for the moment: these vibrations you feel wouldn't feel like vibrations, as it's energy travelling at the speed of light. You would simply feel a constant pressure against your skin.

But whatever, you go on being convinced that you're right - we will wait - and stand by - for scientific evidence that you are.

Oh boy

[strstr]

What people don't know is the non thermal bio effects of microwave radiation are classified but plenty of studies and literature exist proving microwaves harm DNA, activate voltage gated calcium channels causing release of calcium in cells and numerous health problems, cancer more than triples with exposure, and more.

Check out rfemf.com, Dr. Martin Pall's whitepapers, Dr. Paul Dart's 2012 white paper, the documentary Resonance Beings of Frequency, etc.

Have the white papers and documentaries on obamasweapon.com (ctrl + f, martin pall)

No evidence for EHS ..

[nickweller]

"There is no evidence that RF [radiofrequency] exposure is a causal factor. In a number of experimental provocation studies, persons who consider themselves electrically hypersensitive and healthy volunteers have been exposed to either sham or real RF fields, but symptoms have not been more prevalent during RF exposure than during sham in any of the experimental groups. Several studies have indicated a nocebo effect, i.e. an adverse effect caused by an expectation that something is harmful. Associations have been found between self-reported exposure and the outcomes, whereas no associations were seen with measured RF exposure."

Re:No evidence for EHS ..

[Anonanonaon]

You might want to dig into the history of Quackwatch before quoting them.

Sleazy. Lowest of the low, etc.

OK, so what name would YOU put on it?

[Anonymous Coward]

The closest one we have at the moment is double blind testing. Single blind? It's definitely not "misleading" since it demonstrates that the people believe they are hurt when they are told that the wifi is on and don't believe they are hurt when they're told it is off.

And in a double blind test, someone knows who is in the placebo test and who is in the control and who is in the positive test group, this is no different to that.

I can tell you what he gains

[Anonymous Coward]

He gains a "complaint" that "invalidates" the studies so that they can continue to pretend that this hokum is still real and can get a payout for whining.

Re:ADA act? What's their disability

[cusco]

It's an elite private boarding school full of old-money snobs, "daunting and unpleasant" wouldn't begin to describe that environment. If I had been sent there I would have found pretty much any excuse possible to be sent home (or anywhere else). Reform school would probably be preferable. Fortunately my dad worked in an iron foundry so this wasn't a concern.

great!

[Anonymous Coward]

Thumbs up.
EM emissions must be closer regulated.

Obvious cause of the problem.

[sabbede]

Clearly, the issue is that the school is using G when they should really be using N or ac. The student is just upset about the lack of bandwidth.

Kill him now

[MitchDev]

If your kid is sensitive to Wi-Fi, kill him now and put him out of his misery.

This is the same logic that gets Peanut Butter sandwiches banned in some schools...

Progressives no doubt.

[Anonymous Coward]

Because science.

Khyber, you're FULL OF SHIT... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

"NOD32 detects a trojan in APK's HOSTS bullshit." - by Khyber (864651) on Saturday August 22, 2015 @01:02PM (#50370415)

VirusTotal & NOD32 SHOW IT COMPLETELY CLEAN IN ITS EXES

https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

AND

https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

There's only 2 exe's & 5 text files in it - The exe's are proven clean as shown above in the 2 links from VirusTotal, the installer's a SFX rar (keeps it 2mb smaller on download) - that's NO virus!

(Unless YOU know of a way that .txt files are "viruses")

---

"he's tying to get your fucking information." - by Khyber (864651) on Saturday August 22, 2015 @01:02PM (#50370415)

My program doesn't transmit outward ONLY intake of data from 10 reputable sources in the security community!

---

"APK is apparently too fucking stupid to do this at the ROUTER level where it's most effective" - by Khyber (864651) on Saturday August 22, 2015 @01:02PM (#50370415)

You believe in "eggshell security" which fails per -> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2...

A TRULY COMPETENT NETWORK ADMIN WOULD DO FAR MORE THAN MERE PERIMETER LEVEL SECURITY @ ROUTER LEVEL!

(Right down to the endpoints/network nodes level in PC workstations also using tools you already have in hosts + firewalls (vs. "piling on 'MOAR'" that's inefficient & not nearly as effective in slower usermode browser addons)).

---

"Windows 10 has hardcoded IPs and bypasses HOSTs." - by Khyber (864651) on Saturday August 22, 2015 @01:02PM (#50370415)

Windows ONLY bypasses hosts files for Windows update (Win8 & below) & for the tracking "telemetry" in Windows 10 (this is going to KILL Windows 10, mark my words - nobody likes tracking -> http://localghost.org/posts/a-... - test it yourself.

---

"Browsers can bypass HOSTs as well." - by Khyber (864651) on Saturday August 22, 2015 @01:02PM (#50370415)

WTF? They'd be bypassing the IP stack itself, hosts are part of it - since that's impossible? You've proven yourself a moron, again.

APK

P.S.=> See subject & "EAT YOUR WORDS"... apk

Re:While I doubt the seriousness of the claims her

[F.Ultra]

So why do you not go and collect the Amazing Randi One Million dollar price then? Must be easy money for someone as sensitive like yourself.

"Industrial Strength"

[bradgoodman]

Yea - but as the article clearly states - it wasn't just WiFi that the installed - it was the "Industrial Strength" WiFi... :-O

Uhh... wut?

[ganiman]

So is it just the 2.4ghz frequency or the 5ghz frequency... or both? Do cell phones bother this kid too? I mean... all day long all of us are exposed to radio waves on all kinds of frequencies. Satellites point down on us. Cell phone, radio and television broadcast at much higher powers than rinky dink wi-fi access points. Even if you crank the power up all the way. I've worked with radios for years. You can get a headache by being too close to unshielded radios. Wi-fi is a stretch.... it's not like he's standing in front of a high powered point to point or HDTV antennas that will cook you from the inside out. This family doesn't seem to know how this stuff actually works.

It's going to be hard proving the kid is disabled

[Anonymous Coward]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_hypersensitivity

"The majority of provocation trials to date have found that self-described sufferers of electromagnetic hypersensitivity are unable to distinguish between exposure to real and fake electromagnetic fields,[3][4] and it is not recognized as a medical condition by the medical or scientific communities. "

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Disability of stupid parents

[Anonymous Coward]

I feel bad for a kid with this debilitating disability. Having stupid parents is a lifelong illness that is only cured with time.

Can I sue?

[Stubbyfingers]

I am EXTREMELY allergic to BULLSHIT.

The smell of it makes me violent.

I'm not to good with IDIOCY, either.

Re:ADA act? What's their disability

[Samizdata]

I propose a novel treatment: Seal pure water into a container and place it into a microwave oven for 1 millisecond (or a microsecond for extreme cases). Sell it as a homopathic treatment for $50/ounce.

Then shake shake shake. Then shake some more. Once you're done, shake....Shake, shake, repeat.

I hope he\she didnt like attending

[Anonymous Coward]

that school.

Radio Waves

[pebear]

I would hate the think of all the radio waves swirling around us. How many radio stations are on the AM/FM Dials, HDTV, Police, Aircraft/Marine, weather, shortwave, and cell towers. All sorts of terrestrial traffic. That does not even include natural radio waves from space and the earth itself. These tin foiled hat freaks need to be told to pack up their brat and home school the little demon spawn. How are they going to know that it's the schools WIFI causing their son's illness vs all this other traffic going on? People have been complaining that we are all dieing off because of all the alleged radioactivity but I don't see the mortality charts pointing down as a matter of fact they are all going up. Best thing yet they can do is to move to some isolated Pacific Atoll and leave the rest of us alone.

The real reason for the lawsuit

[MercBoy]

If you read the lawsuit PDF, you can see that they are suing the school for $250,000.

Re:I have always been curious.... -- serate

[Slim_Jack]

Steel is nice and soft ... until it is arranged in a serated pattern along an edge, then it becomes a knife that can slice through a tin can - the GINSU Knife! The arrangement of energy (digital or analog) has _no_ effect on the poor delicate organic systems, any more than a few piddly molecules of iron might...

Re:ADA act? What's their disability

[Anonymous Coward]

"Cancer cells lack the emzyme catalase which normal cells useto inactivate peroxide"

Nothing says professional like the inability to spell the word enzyme. ;-)

Re:ADA act? What's their disability

[Anonymous Coward]

Seal pure water into a container and place it into a microwave oven for 1 millisecond (or a microsecond for extreme cases). Sell it as a homopathic treatment for $50/ounce.

I think you just invented a cure for the fear of sexual minorities!

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Not double blind

[DrYak]

So we provide him with a fake Faraday cage, that doesn't keep anything out.

For the study to be double blind you (the person building the 2 cages both the real and the true, and deciding on which day the child uses which one) must keep the information isolated.
The person handing/seting up the cage in the morning should NOT know whether the fake or an actual cage was handed out.
And only reveal the fake after the child has had a significant number of session using each.

It's a child. Children *can* be very sensitive to body language. The child could be suspicious of the smirk on your face when handing the fake cage.

Mind over Matter

[DarthVain]

Sometimes the mind can be a real jerk. Fear, stress, and anxiety can manifest some pretty bad physical symptoms. Which while illusory, can have a real physical impact on health.

I was recently told a story by my father just the other week about a person he knew that was involved. Apparently he worked in a lab with a bunch of other people, using some pretty dangerous material. In particular a gas, if escaped in enough quantity, could have some serious health impacts and even death. They had a leak, and the monitor showed concentrations far in excess of what was safe. All the staff started exhibiting the symptoms that were expected. These were well educated, professionals. However as it turned out, there had been no leak, and in fact the monitor was busted. However all the staff knew in detail about the material, what to expect, etc... The stress and anxiety experienced produced the expected results. Once the issue was determined, all symptoms vanished, and probably some people were embarrassed.

So humor these people, put tape over the blinky lights, or otherwise hide the physical locations of routers, and likely the people freaking out about them will feel better...

Poor disabled kid

[RockDoctor]

Having such fucking idiots for parents must indeed be a severe disability.

Call their bluff

[DiEx-15]

I say the school should call the parents bluff.

The parents and the LOLyers for the parents have to prove in court that their kid got sick thanks to the Wi-Fi. The burden of proof is on them, not the school or the defendant. Granted, it is a civil case and that should make it much more easier for the school's attorney to blast a Mars sized hole into the parents ship.

If it were me, I'd just give the parents a roll of Reynolds Wrap and say "Here you go, I met the ADA act."

Bullpucky

[JohnO'Hara]

I'm sick of this crap. "Wifi makes me sick! Turn off all the network gear!" Yeah, make everyone suffer because one person is sick of it. So, now I can't have wifi? Out of 2000 people, one gets sick? I'm sick of this bull people pull. If your kid is sick over this, pull them out! Don't go suing to make it worse for the other 99.999 percent over this. These parents sound more like greedy idiots than anything.

Re:ADA act? What's their disability

[Anonymous Coward]

Problem solved then. Water remembers the radiation it got, and can now protect the kid. If it doesn't work just double the quantity of the medicine!

Say what? Now you're on a tangent.

[Anonymous Coward]

You clearly don't want to accept that these people are just fucked in the head.

If the signal is too weak AND an ordinary Wi-Fi signal. Then news flash... Wi-Fi isn't the issue.

You do realize the environment is identical in these scenarios. So ventilation, etc. is irrelevant.

Nope - NOTHING to do w/ me

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: I just let you screw yourself! I.E./E.G.:

"NOD32 detects a trojan in APK's HOSTS bullshit." - by Khyber (864651) on Saturday August 22, 2015 @01:02PM (#50370415)

VirusTotal & NOD32 SHOW IT CLEAN IN ITS EXES

https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

+

https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

There's only 2 exe's & 5 texts in it - Exe's are proven clean as shown above in the 2 links from VirusTotal, the installer's a SFX rar (keeps it 2mb smaller on download) - that's NO virus!

(Unless YOU know a way that .txt files are "viruses")

---

"he's tying to get your fucking information." - by Khyber (864651) on Saturday August 22, 2015 @01:02PM (#50370415)

My program doesn't transmit outward ONLY intake of data from 10 reputable sources in the security community!

---

"APK is apparently too fucking stupid to do this at the ROUTER level where it's most effective" - by Khyber (864651) on Saturday August 22, 2015 @01:02PM (#50370415)

You believe in "eggshell security": It fails per -> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2...

A TRULY COMPETENT NETWORK ADMIN WOULD DO FAR MORE THAN MERE PERIMETER LEVEL SECURITY @ ROUTER LEVEL!

(Right down to the endpoints level in PC workstations by using tools you already have in hosts + firewalls (vs. "piling on inefficient crippled lesser abilities 'MOAR'" in slower usermode browser addons)).

---

"Windows 10 has hardcoded IPs and bypasses HOSTs." - by Khyber (864651) on Saturday August 22, 2015 @01:02PM (#50370415)

Windows ONLY bypasses hosts files for Windows update (Win8 & below) & for tracking "telemetry" in Windows 10 (this is going to KILL Windows 10 - nobody likes tracking -> http://localghost.org/posts/a-... - test it yourself.

---

"Browsers can bypass HOSTs as well." - by Khyber (864651) on Saturday August 22, 2015 @01:02PM (#50370415)

They'd be bypassing the IP stack itself, hosts are part of it - since that's impossible? You've proven yourself a moron.

APK

P.S.=> See subject & "EAT YOUR WORDS"... apk

Khyber I'll let others see YOU "dance"... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

"NOD32 detects a trojan in APK's HOSTS bullshit." - by Khyber (864651) on Saturday August 22, 2015 @01:02PM (#50370415)

VirusTotal & NOD32 SHOW IT COMPLETELY CLEAN IN ITS EXES

https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

AND

https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

There's only 2 exe's & 5 text files in it - The exe's are proven clean as shown above in the 2 links from VirusTotal, the installer's a SFX rar (keeps it 2mb smaller on download) - that's NO virus!

(Unless YOU know of a way that .txt files are "viruses")

---

"he's tying to get your fucking information." - by Khyber (864651) on Saturday August 22, 2015 @01:02PM (#50370415)

My program doesn't transmit outward ONLY intake of data from 10 reputable sources in the security community!

---

"APK is apparently too fucking stupid to do this at the ROUTER level where it's most effective" - by Khyber (864651) on Saturday August 22, 2015 @01:02PM (#50370415)

You believe in "eggshell security" which fails per -> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2...

A TRULY COMPETENT NETWORK ADMIN WOULD DO FAR MORE THAN MERE PERIMETER LEVEL SECURITY @ ROUTER LEVEL!

(Right down to the endpoints/network nodes level in PC workstations also using tools you already have in hosts + firewalls (vs. "piling on 'MOAR'" that's inefficient & not nearly as effective in slower usermode browser addons)).

---

"Windows 10 has hardcoded IPs and bypasses HOSTs." - by Khyber (864651) on Saturday August 22, 2015 @01:02PM (#50370415)

Windows ONLY bypasses hosts files for Windows update (Win8 & below) & for the tracking "telemetry" in Windows 10 (this is going to KILL Windows 10, mark my words - nobody likes tracking -> http://localghost.org/posts/a-... - test it yourself.

---

"Browsers can bypass HOSTs as well." - by Khyber (864651) on Saturday August 22, 2015 @01:02PM (#50370415)

WTF? They'd be bypassing the IP stack itself, hosts are part of it - since that's impossible? You've proven yourself a moron, again.

APK

P.S.=> See subject & "EAT YOUR WORDS"... apk

Re:Khyber I'll let others see YOU "dance"... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

What, your response is the same copy-pasta that you spam everywhere else? Face it APK, your ass just got PWN3D!

Re:ADA act? What's their disability

[Anonymous Coward]

Why won't she list where she went to medical school? That right there is suspicious.

Put a lid on It

[Anonymous Coward]

Time to make up some aluminum foil hats - problem solved.

More of This

[DrChandra]

Another case: http://news.yahoo.com/french-w...

Re:ADA act? What's their disability

[Anonymous Coward]

I would suggest not sealing the container (it will likely explode) since microwave ovens can't be set for less than 1 second

Also, once microwaved, you would then have to dilute the water down to a 30C dilution (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathic_dilutions)

This not only would create the proper 30C product, but would also give you all the product you would ever need (your limit would be based only on how many containers you have).

You could then sell each container for $50 and be safe in the knowledge that you followed the Homeopathic procedures correctly.

Re:ADA act? What's their disability

[__aabppq7737]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Re:Say what? Now you're on a tangent.

[yndrd1984]

You clearly don't want to accept that these people are just fucked in the head.

I'm pretty sure this is a psychological issue. On both their part, and yours.

You do realize the environment is identical in these scenarios. So ventilation, etc. is irrelevant.

Oh, I get it. You were so busy feeling smugly superior to other people that you lost the ability to comprehend English. Let's try this again - if the study had shown that no combination of wifi or lights made these people sick, but they still felt sick in certain places, then it's possible that it wasn't in their heads, and might have some other cause. Wouldn't that be a good thing to know as well?

Psychosomatic

[Anonymous Coward]

All studies done show that this so called disease is psychosomatic. How was the child diagnosed? Phrenology?

I'm Allergic

[Stubbyfingers]

to BULLSHIT! I wanna hurl every time I smell it!

EMF Field

[Anonymous Coward]

Wi-Fi is pretty bad look at EMF field

http://www.safespaceprotection.com/electrostress-from-wireless-routers.aspx

The Hum

[vandamme]

Seriously, now, The Hum is an actual affliction of a small percentage of people scattered all over who are tormented by the sound of an idling diesel throbbing. Many theories have been proposed, none verified. The current one is VLF radio transmissions, and a serious experiment is underway to verify it (or not). www.thehum.info