Slashdot Mirror
Massive Backlash Building Over Windows 10 Upgrades (fortune.com)
Some Windows users are now disabling critical updates on their systems rather than face the prospect of mistakenly upgrading to Windows 10. An anonymous reader writes:
"By pushing it on users in such a heavy-handed way, Microsoft is encouraging users who have very valid reasons to stick with Windows 7/8 to perform actions that leave their machines open to attack," writes PC World's senior editor. He adds that "Over the past week, I've received more contact from readers about this issue than I have about everything else I've written over the rest of my career combined."
Now even China's official news agency is reporting that users are angry about stealthy Windows 10 upgrades, saying over 1.2 million complaints appeared on one microblogging site. It quotes a legal advisor with the Internet Society of China, who says Microsoft "has abused its dominant market position and broken the market order for fair play," saying that lawsuits would be justified over Microsoft's action. "Yang Shuo, a worker at a Beijing-based public relations company, told Xinhua that the sudden update interrupted his drafting of a business plan and led to a meeting cancellation for a deal worth 3 million yuan ($457,735). 'Just because I didn't see the pop-up reminder does not mean I agreed.'"
In a possibly-unrelated development, the Chinese military plans to send nuclear submarines into the Pacific Ocean.
Now even China's official news agency is reporting that users are angry about stealthy Windows 10 upgrades, saying over 1.2 million complaints appeared on one microblogging site. It quotes a legal advisor with the Internet Society of China, who says Microsoft "has abused its dominant market position and broken the market order for fair play," saying that lawsuits would be justified over Microsoft's action. "Yang Shuo, a worker at a Beijing-based public relations company, told Xinhua that the sudden update interrupted his drafting of a business plan and led to a meeting cancellation for a deal worth 3 million yuan ($457,735). 'Just because I didn't see the pop-up reminder does not mean I agreed.'"
In a possibly-unrelated development, the Chinese military plans to send nuclear submarines into the Pacific Ocean.
Yes, I am writing a business plan too ,
Dammit, I just lost $457,000!!!
*Goes to join the MPAA and BSA to help them explain how their lost profits are calculated*
E
When they approved a security update installs a Windows 10 nag they all but proved there are no updates left for Windows 7 regardless of when the "end of life" is. So people cut them off.
If Microsoft doesn't even look at the micro blogging site, what good does complaining on it do?
Oh, and HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate /v "DisableOSUpgrade" /t REG_DWORD /d 0x1
nobody attacks apple for agressivly pushing their updates. On my ipad almost every time i pick it up there is a screen about an IOS update. i say 'sod off' and it takes me to my lock screen code page. unless you are paying attention its not clear that putting in your code will enable it to do the update, you have to press another button to stop this madness.
and on my machine at work - continunal messages sat in the top right over updates, with no other option than 'remind me tomorrow'- how about 'remind me never?'
they are just waiting for you to accidentally click the wrong thing. or just click yes to stop getting in your way.
its double standards. but most mac/ios users drinkt he kool aid and never hit this 'problem'
So don't call it Windows 10. Call it the largest security update ever provided.
EU should act over forced upgrades via deception
Just like they did with IE bundling, and now Google bundling.
EU should take Microsoft to the cleaners for forcing W10 underhand
Slashdot editors have been trained to cross-promote in every story rather than actually contributing their own thoughts.
The subs will sit off the coast of Washington, ready to fire at the next automatic update.... That's if they're not running Windows onboard.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
"Oh, and HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate /v "DisableOSUpgrade" /t REG_DWORD /d 0x1"
Silly rabbit, the next Windows critical security update will fix that registry error you just created.
Unfortunately if TTIP takes hold, every consumer will get screwed by big business.
GWX is a quad of processes
GWXDetector
GWXConfigurator
GWXUX
GWX
Just to be sure they screw your machine, each of these quad processes watch each others back and they update them every month to ensure it's run and on their schedule.
If people weren't such nancy pushovers this automatic "opting in" garbage would have been dealt with by the regulators already but I'm sure screwing common folks up the bum is business as usual for them.
Win 10 will dominate the Windows market, the world will move on, and Microsoft will consider defending and possibly losing a massive class action suit as merely a cost of business.
What really needs to change across the board is the sizes of penalties in both civil and criminal suits against big companies. When the typical award is between 50 and 500 times what it is today, large corporations will tread more lightly. Until then, law suits, fines, etc. are just a business expense that the C-levels have already predicted and the bean counters have factored into their projections.
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
Create a blank .reg file and put this in it
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Gwx]
"DisableGwx"=dword:00000001
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]
"DisableOSUpgrade"=dword:00000001
Then run it, alternative manually add those keys to the registry yourself.
Yes, I know this isn't exactly user friendly and NO it shouldn't be necessary but it works all the time, every time.
It's even documented on the Microsoft website, go on have a look : https://support.microsoft.com/...
Why this is STILL not common knowledge I don't know. All you get from everyone is bitching how "Microsoft shouldn't be doing this" and "how dare they have the gall to do this". If EVERYONE on Slashdot put some effort in to spreading the word about this pretty simple fix, then a LOT of people would not end up with Windows 10 when they don't want it.
Hey maybe Slashdot could run a quick piece on it? Perhaps spread the word to some mainstream press with a link to a reg file hosted by someone trustworthy.
Alternatively let's all just keep rehashing the same fucking discussions about how "update KBwhatever" keeps coming back when hiding that has never been they way to fix this problem.
Go to https://tiny.cc/aegisvoat for a script which disables all of Microsoft's spying and unwanted "upgrades."
I'd like to see a nasty class action lawsuit against Microsoft in this issue. Not that I like lawyers but this is a very damaging and deceptive action on Microsoft's behalf.
Don't like Windows? Don't use it. Done.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it dissolve.
...this had been opt-in instead of try-repeatedly-to-opt-out, Microsoft might been able to gain lots of positive press for offering a newer, allegedly safer, somewhat spying OS for free.
As is, with it being rammed down people's downlinks with little or no regards for the users wishes or data-caps, the angry backlash should been predicted and expected.
Everything in the world is controlled by a small, evil group to which, unfortunately, no one you know belongs.
Microsoft is assaulting its user base with features and upgrades that they don't want.
hounding, harassing, misleading, and tricking users into doing things they don't want to do is a great way to lose even more market share and foster an even more toxic reputation that Microsoft is unscrupulous and an increasing unnecessary nuisance.
it is hilarious to me that there are actually people here who will defend MS and even blame users for their OS being upgraded against their intentions.
when you have to watch your own system like a hawk and protect it from multiple vectors of attack ... from the company that MADE that OS ... man, it is time to re-evaluate whether it's worth the hassle at all. amazingly, Microsoft has managed to plant that seed of thought not in rabble-rousing Linux faithful, but average joes and janes who have no desire to become security experts and update ninjas just to keep their machine from changing its operating system on them. good job MS, alienating one of your most faithful demographics.
i could live a little longer in this prison
Now that would be nice. Instead of asking then potentially forcing Windows 10 on the user, a 'special' update could be crafted to point the user(s) to a 'gentle' site explaining Linux and how to install it.
A simple wizard could guide them through a simple questionnaire which then based on the answers generate a recommendation as to what Linux distro could be right for them, then a backup files wizard, then an install Linux distro option, based upon the results of the quiz, or let them click on any of a provided list of distros.
The support period for Windows 7 and 8 has not run out yet, so why does everyone claim that not upgrading to Windows 10 will leave open machines for attack? Does Microsoft plan to not put out any more security updates for older systems or is this fear mongering to draw more people to Windows 10?
Both would be bad.
I'm personally hoping for a major class action lawsuit in the US. There's no denying that Microsoft's tricks are shady, even if not illegal, and the whole thing stinks of abuse. Forced obsolescence is one thing, but tricking and forcing your customers into switching to a fundamentally different product with remote telemetry and backdoors is absolutely despicable, even if it is bug-free and perfectly compatible. Which of course it isn't.
I don't know if there is any legal basis whatsoever for an actual suit, but I still hope. And I hope customers and major clients leave Microsoft in droves over this. Fuck Microsoft.
I am installing GRC's never10 at an alarming rate. I have had to make at least $1600 in the last week alone charging $25.00 for the 10 minutes it takes to install it on their personal computers..
Thank you once again Microsoft for making the IT guys job more relevant than ever, at this rate I'll be able to afford a vacation home by fall.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
adds a workaround. I did a couple of different registry tricks, but I still ended up with 10 on my 7 desktop this week without my permission.
disable windows update service on startup - that thing is malware
Microsoft has realized that the end of OS improvements and upgrades for many people is within sight as is the ability to get people to pay every year or two for the "new Windows OS."
Consequently Microsoftdoesn't make an Operating System anymore, it is an Advertising System!
I feel a bit conflicted on this one. On the one hand, you're absolutely correct - MS is pushing this to monetise the OS and use windows store platformto generate a new revenue stream to compensate for the drop in PC sales etc.
But on the other hand Windows 10 has some stuff in it I really like. Ignoring briefly the dubious back peddling on the ux disaster that was 8 and 8.1 there's some nice stuff in there like OneGete and powershell 5 and native stuff like virtual desktops and forthcoming ssh and bash shell etc. Some stuff lifted from other platforms who but nice nonetheless.
The real problem is it's gonna only get worse as they try and suck everything into Azure and Office 365 and a variety of other vendor lock in stuff. All looks somewhat enticing now while they love all the open source at the moment. But this can't last.
"If."
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
This should cost Microsoft. Forcing their "Free" upgrade down people's throats who don't want it is costing many people a lot of money to clean up the aftermath. Make no mistake, Microsoft is making money off of everyone who upgrades so it's in their best interest. You are either the consumer or the product. With Windows 10 you are the product. Unfortunately it hasn't cost Microsoft enough to not pull these sort of tactics. They may or may not be legal, but the tactics they are taking are certainly sleazy and unethical at the least.
All my 7 installs are Enterprise, which are "not eligible" for this "free upgrade" lol.
I have been using Win10 for some time and rather liked it. Although, I did by accident discover that hovering the mouse in the lower left corner of the screen made my Win 2012 server display a start menu icon. But these stealth upgrades are really annoying me. I discovered that there was an upgrade deposit building in a hidden directory on my laptop hard drive (Win7 pro -- domain connected). Problem is that the vendor (Lenovo) does not support this device for Win10 (SL510) -- or I would have done it myself. The directory showed when I booted off my alternative desktop -- Ubuntu. I have a bunch of $$ proprietary software that demands a particular windows version so a forced upgrade is just theft. Even beyond that the involuntary patch cycle that undoes my file associations is really getting on my nerves. I don't really care how my MS likes Edge... it wont share URLs with my Chrome on android or linux, and it won't save anything. If GRC does not keep the Win10 wolf from the door then it looks like Linux will be my full time OS (and android of course) and the firewall rules will get restructured a bit to block their malware. I used to work for a software vendor and understand the headaches of supporting multiple OS versions (especially with no unified environment like VMS), but the trickery being used is just plain wrong. Time for lawsuits I think...
.
Microsoft missed the 'no means no' portion of sex-ed class...
...it is hilarious to me that there are actually people here who will defend MS...
It wouldn't surprise me if there were paid shills defending Microsoft on the boards. Probably wouldn't be the first time Microsoft did something like that.
I would probably buy win10 on my next new computer without giving it a second thought but I'm very resistant to upgrading my win 8.1 system.
On top of that, Microsoft's behavior is giving me a strong push towards linux for my main permanent box.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
They did this on purpose so that Windows 11 (or 12, or whatever) can feature the "now 100% optional choices" that make people so happy and they can't wait to upgrade because it actually asked them if they want to upgrade... (even though this version is even more intrusive spyware)
Dumbass sheep, that is humans.
Same ol same ol from Microsoft, nice to hear that people are reacting, they need to keep on acting and move to Linux.
Wow! Many of the comments above have somewhat justified or accepted Microsoft's abuse.
1) Can we have a court case to force Microsoft to sell everyone the Enterprise version of Windows 10?
2) On Windows 7 and 8, turn off automatic updates and use Autopatcher. Unfortunately, Autopatcher has not begun supporting Windows 10. We need independent control over Windows operating system updates. How can we achieve that?
3) Don't let Windows connect to the internet. Use 2 separate networks. There would need to be some way for the separate networks to communicate. Internet access could be done using separate computers running Linux.
Microsoft has a long, long history of releasing defective code and fixing it later. After fixing 2,722 vulnerabilities and other defects, Microsoft declared Microsoft Windows XP "end of life". After fixing almost 3,000 defects, Microsoft declared Windows XP was too vulnerable to use.
We still have 17 computers running Windows XP with a software firewall. We've had no problems. Everyone is a limited rights user.
4) We need international support for a Windows-compatible operating system, like ReactOS.
5) Maybe the U.S. government now only helps the rich gets richer. The European government could bring a huge court case against Microsoft.
Don't use m$ products, problem solved.
nor should she.
clearly windows 10 is not ready for the desktop.
Argue away, but the fact is Slashdot warned me in time. I thought I had put Win X to bed a long time ago, but up it pops again. I killed it again, thanks to Slashdot. Don't know how long it will stay dead, but at least it is for now.
How about a moderation of -1 pedantic.
My parents were just hit with the Windows10 upgrade. I had not bothered to block it on their computer. They are older and now more confused than ever about what happened without their permissions. Many of their saved passwords were cleared out to sites. They struggle to use Windows as it is and Microsoft does not make it easy on a normal day. I truly think that a massive class action suit against Microsoft would easily win hands down.
The first law firm to step up and push it right could make some money. End users may not get a whole lot out of it, but it might make MS shut up and listen.
An no I normally don't like these types of law suits and don't like most lawyers, but this clearly shows need.
My folks were already on the verge of going to a Mac. this may push them over the edge.
(For whoever missed the reference and thought I was trolling: here you go.)
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
EU is like an old elephant, it is slow to move, but when it moves, it smashes everything!
...It's also an extension of the Windows Genuine Advantage validation tool (is it still called that?)
I let an old laptop I had update to windows 10. It detected I had a non-genuine windows 7 installation, rolled back the update and stripped out the licence key.
This gives them another crack of the whip in weeding out the pirates.
I'd like to see a nasty class action lawsuit against Microsoft in this issue.
And I'd like to join it.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Silly rabbit, the next Windows critical security update will fix that registry error you just created.
I doubt that Microsoft is going to break Microsofts How to manage Windows 10 notification and upgrade options documentation.
A few days ago I fixed a business computer. It kept nagging and finally installed Windows 10.
The result?
1. The upgrade finally killed the (very old) hard drive in the PC. Errors everywhere, had to be replaced.
2. The old office suite no longer worked.
3. The antivirus messed up.
4. Somehow during the process the email screwed up and they lost some of it (not repairable.)
5. The custom order entry system he used no longer ran.
So a new hard drive was installed and Win7 put back on. Everything was reinstalled, and I put in the GPO policies and registry tweaks that stop W10 for now... until Microsoft decides to change it again.
When I told them they'd have to probably spend $700+ replacing their old software (and still risk the order entry system not working) they were very mad at Microsoft. This was their only functioning workstation and so its lost definitely affected business operations. The computer store was backlogged over a week (!) fixing issues like this one so they called me.
Me thinks he speaks from truth
https://linux.slashdot.org/story/16/05/29/212204/systemd-starts-killing-your-background-processes-by-default
Truth never gets a mod-up around here, unless it fits the I - LUV - LINUX straight jacket.
I've had all of windows update turned off on my Windows 7 box for a while now, waiting for this shitstorm to be gone.
The "x" does what you think it does. It closes the notification. It does not cause upgrades to happen, and it does not stop upgrades from happening, it only closes the window. The problem is that the update is scheduled already by the time that notification appears, and you must cancel the scheduled upgrade while still in that windows instead of closing it.
They should force Microsoft to include an OS choice screen, like the browser choice one. A selection of alternate operating systems, including Ubuntu, Tails and ChromeOS. There would need to be some kind of mechanism in there for processing refunds for the unused Windows licence too.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I love that last bit at the end. The Chinese are totally launching those subs because of Windows 10 - Microsoft must pay the red price!
Sadly, that's almost justifiable... almost
Why do you say disabling recommended updates is an extreme? I always disable them. They aren't the same as the critical security updates, they are just various driver updates, langauge packs, and the like. And the update to Windows 10. I've never had any issues with Windows 10 upgrades or nagging notifications since I've had recommended (Again, not critical) updates turned off the whole time.
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
Except, I entered into an agreement with Microsoft. They received consideration (a portion of the purchase price of the OS I bought) in exchange for fulfilling their side of the bargain -- there was no reason to believe that after I paid money for the product (as I have for twenty years), instead of actively supporting it as usual they would try to trick me into upgrading to a new version that is not functionally equivalent (in particular, forcing advertising on my PC and changing the UI).
If Microsoft offers to refund the money I paid for 8.1 Pro and I choose to accept that offer, my damages may be limited somewhat, but I've not received that offer from Microsoft yet, let alone agreed to cancel our contract.
Hopefully all this nonsense will stop when the "free upgrade" expires in July -- it never occurred to me that I would look forward to a free upgrade offer expiring, but Microsoft has finally lost my future business. I've moved most of my machines have moved to Linux in the past year just to escape from Microsoft and have been pleasantly surprised at how well it works out for me. Win 8.1 is the last Windows version for me.
I'm pretty sure this ordeal will drive me away in the end. Right now I'm working on a Visual Studio project, but as soon as I have time I'm planning to switch over to something like Ubuntu and just run MS-specific stuff like that virtualized and deal with whatever performance hit I take.
> I feel a bit conflicted on this one. ... But on the other hand Windows 10 has some stuff in it I really like.
Suppose for a moment that Windows 10 was awesome, as good as sex. And Microsoft is forcing it upon people who don't want it. How do you feel about forcing sex on someone who doesn't it? Still conflicted?
In my case, I have expensive hardware which is controlled by a Windows application, an application which doesn't run in Windows 10. Without Windows 7 or earlier, I have to throw out several thousand dollars worth of equipment.
The title is wrong. It should read :
"Not enough Backlash Building Over Windows 10 Upgrades "
aaaaaaa
You need to doubt harder, then.
Boy, PC World, and its dozens of tracking includes on the page, are really milking this Windows10 story.
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
When you run windows on the Microsoft computer, Microsoft knows what is best for the Computer now owned by Microsoft, and can update that computer at a time that is convenient to Microsoft.
unlike open-sores software, Microsoft software takes full ownership of the computer it is run on.
Be grateful that Microsoft allows you some limited control over its property.
I've installed GWX Control panel and still see it "detect" that something has changed every so often. Then at one point (and silly me, I didn't alt-printscreen) the GWX software was detected by MS Security Essentials and suggested I remove it.
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
Funny this 4th and long hail Mary pass from MS was followed quickly by the abandon-ship call for the Windows Phone.... Yet I digress.
There are 3 or 4 billion of you and not one of you can make a decent OS?
We hate these mother fuckers to.
Upgrade to linux!
You'll never be harassed to upgrade you OS again...
I doubt that. Probably the work of the Chinese 50 cent army.
The broken HDD is very common. Many drives, as they age, effectively become 'read only'- where the heads reliably retrieve files, but new write operations damage the surface of the aged platters.
MS just doesn't give a damn. The upgrade triggers a vast number of write operations, and as sector failures occur, Microsoft's dreadful HDD 'fix' program kick in trashing the enture drive. No yes, dribblers and creps will tediously claim this is the 'fault' of the owner for not replacing the drive when it got to this state- point the saliennt point is that the HDD faults were currently NON-CRITICAL, and the user OS settings reasonable for continued use.
Installing a new OS on an OLD machine should only be done to a new drive, SSD or memory stick. The old drive must be left alone (and yes, someone really should copy the criticla files to a new storage location- but we all know that).
I did all the registry edits, you know, the disable osupgrade, the disableGWX, and so on. I finally simply let the GWX folder install, emptied it, and took system privileges away from it. Did the same for the SoftwareDistribution folder. Now the system does not upgrade. This was forced because MS refused to pay attention to the do not upgrade message.
I have always disabled updated on Windows boxes.
Obviously it's a security risk, but I've felt the risk of an update screwing up your machine to be greater.
Then came the first driver updates which *removed major functionality*, and I was glad I'd turned updates off.
As you can imagine, watching all this stuff roll by where MS are abusing updates to push their OS, well, I'm glad I finally bought the new laptop six months ago and am now on Linux.
I was under the impression that they've already done so at least twice in the last few months.
That would be a superlative reaction!
Certainly. Care to share the actual damages you suffered at the hands of this free update reminder? Please don't tell us you were tricked into installing it since you don't use Windows and according to you, you are the smartest motherfucker ever to walk the face of the earth.
Oh, how nice. Grandpa over here is bringing back the M$ way of typing Microsoft.
It's idiotic and adds nothing to the discussion. I bet you spell America as Amerika too... Yawn.
Grow up, AC. "M$" is just a frigging abbreviation. Yes, it is usually used negatively, but it's still just an abbreviation.
Using your "logic" we should stop calling desktop computers "PCs". After all, that "ancient" term was first used several decades ago.
Idiots. Everywhere I turn, nothing but idiots.
What will be interesting when the offer expires will be if I am entitled to the upgrade, as I have already accepted the upgrade and upgraded my home laptop. But Windows 10 didn't have the correct graphics drivers to support the laptops switchable graphics so I had to go back to 7.
So I presume once the drivers issue is resolved I am still entitled to my free upgrade.
Care to share the actual damages you suffered at the hands of this free update reminder?
My time. I could have used it to better myself, or masturbate or whatever.
Please don't tell us you were tricked into installing it since you don't use Windows
Who told you that? I talk about using Windows all the time. I paid for Win7Pro, on purpose.
and according to you, you are the smartest motherfucker ever to walk the face of the earth.
Alas, I still talk to ACs, so that can't possibly be the case.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The result?
2. The old office suite no longer worked.
A friend of mine had W10 forced on him recently. He didn't notice an option to cancel the "upgrade", although it could have been there. After W10 was installed, his Office 2010 demanded the product key. He couldn't find his original installation media, so he couldn't use Office. He had something that he needed to do in Word, so he looked for alternatives. Another friend suggested OpenOffice, and he installed it just fine. He called me for help using OO, since he knows I use it in Linux. I helped him resolve his technical issue, and we have another happy non-Microsoft user.
Since he paid for Office, he should be able to use it for as long as he wants to. The fact that W10 breaks an existing installation is silly and underhanded.
Go Microsoft! Keep shooting yourself in the foot. Class action lawsuits rarely accomplish anything more than making a few lawyers richer than they already are. With that in mind, the best chance that Linux fans have is for Microsoft to alienate their customers so badly that they look for non-Microsoft alternatives. So far, Microsoft is doing a wonderful job of alienating their users.
I have disabled update process entirely for any home machines I am responsible for..None of my computers can run it effectively as they are older hardware, and the BS about "bettter performance" and "working fine on older machines" is just lies!.
I've installed GWX Control panel and still see it "detect" that something has changed every so often. Then at one point (and silly me, I didn't alt-printscreen) the GWX software was detected by MS Security Essentials and suggested I remove it.
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
Funny this 4th and long hail Mary pass from MS was followed quickly by the abandon-ship call for the Windows Phone.... Yet I digress.
I have GWX Control Panel, and MS Security Essentials, yet the program was not detected as a virus. However, I am not running it in "monitor mode". Did you download it from the originating site?
I never bothered to type in the key printed at the bottom of my laptop.
The benefits: I get a nice black background, on boot it asks me to activate my win7, what solves itselv either after 30 sec or after pressing cancel.
aaand the biggest benefit: I NEVER get asked to update to win10!
Why would you ever want to use a activated version, if it leads to shit like win10?
Yeah between the shady updates and the bundled storefront it sorta boggles my mind that the EU hasn't lifted a finger. I mean they went crazy when MS as much as bundled a browser with the OS and now ........ nothing..........
They need the old version of Office to work with their order entry system. Switching it to something else was not an option, and there's no guarantee it will work with the newer versions of Office.
Linux doesn't pull this crap on you. Neither does PC-BSD.
I am furious!
How dare they make the programme upgrade your computer without permission??? If I press no, thanks 100 times, what makes the 101 st time ok to change my operating system automatically?
No better than a virus! Class action suit indeed!!!
There is already existing, superior options for everything that you listed.
Windows 10 is spyware and adware. That is never going on any of my systems.
The "x" does what you think it does. It closes the notification. It does not cause upgrades to happen, and it does not stop upgrades from happening, it only closes the window. The problem is that the update is scheduled already by the time that notification appears, and you must cancel the scheduled upgrade while still in that windows instead of closing it.
And you don't call that deceptive?
They need to bring this to court, so a judge can solve this the right way-
"Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella, this court is considering fining MSoft $100Billion. But I'll totally give you an out- my laptop is running an app that sets the actual fine. If you can figure out how to get the app to NOT fine you, then we'll go with that. Otherwise you're assumed to have agreed with this dollar amount, and waived your rights to appeal. You have five minutes, and... GO!"
I am not a sig.
That alone isn't enough. They needed to be fined enough that they get the message. There's no way their legal department didn't inform the higher ups that this kind of abuse would leave them open to liability, but the past has proved to them any resulting fines are a minor fraction of the money they made doing it. The only way to actually discourage this kind of behavior is to make the fine so severe that their shareholders take notice. I'm thinking a whole quarters profit should get that message across, which Google tells me was $5bn in Q1 2015.
I'll sign that petition! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit!
What do we want?
Lawsuit!
When do we want it?
Now!
What do we want?
Lawsuit!
When do we want it?
Now!
Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit!
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
$700 should not have been a large portion of the annual income for a business, I would think, if they relied so much on a single workstation.
It sounds like it was old enough to require either replacing or a HDD upgrade already.
No excusing the unexpected upgrade, but the business seems to be partly at fault for the extent of the damage and down-time.
If I had a DeLorean... I would probably only drive it from time to time.
Since he paid for Office, he should be able to use it for as long as he wants to. The fact that W10 breaks an existing installation is silly and underhanded.
He didn't pay for Office. He paid for a license to use Office. I don't think that windows 10 broke that, it simply required proof of said license purchase, which is the one part of your Office pack that you should never throw away, lose, or borrow from somebody else.
If I had a DeLorean... I would probably only drive it from time to time.
Microsoft is creating more work for me. :)
Life is good
I continue to use Windows 3.11. You can't stop me Microsoft. I can dial into BBS's just fine to read my email.
Create an admin user then create another unprivileged account. Use this account to do your work. Windows will still download window s 10 but the installer will ask for the admin account before installing.
I was under the impression that they've already done so at least twice in the last few months.
It's what I have followed to keep my Win 7 machines on Win 7 and there has yet to be any attempt to update them to Windows 10.
Wow, I do a lot of work in older versions of operating systems as some of my clients run industrial machines that don't run in newer versions of windows. I went away for vacation for a week and left my desktop on so I could do some work if I had a client call. Came home and my machine was black screened. rebooted it and it says welcome to windows 10.
An operating system that updates without prompting the user or letting them decide is just wrong on so many levels. I had ignored the nag screens that kept coming up and saying upgrade now because I spent over 100 hours getting windows 7 to work with my old development software. How pissed off am I, well where to start... Needless to say there was a lot of four letter words shouted from my office this evening. I declined the licensing agreement and the machine said it would revert back to my previous version... I don't hold out much hope, 2 hours so far and the machine has not rebooted, just says reverting back to previous version.
Thanks Microsoft, once again finding a way to f&*k over your customers, and thanks for the new IE version too.
While removing features and compatibility that they do want.
Yes, you stupid fool, if it was the fucking tire maker who deliberately punctured your tire!
I know Apple ain't perfect, but when Win 10 showed up uninvited on a family machine, it clashed with an Netgear AC wireless dongle. Took about two hours to realize that was the problem... Since all I do is Word or Excel, I'm happy to pay the Apple tax...they never stole my time like this.....and time spent fixing a computer that was NOT broken is truly wasted time.
Run GWX Control Panel in monitor mode.
http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/08/using-gwx-stopper-to-permanently-remove.html
You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
It is highly deceptive. But claiming that the "x" installs windows is also deceptive, or uninformed.
They've already resorted to unhiding updates that the user hid. What makes you think they won't undo other actions the user takes to explicitly reject an update?
In a possibly-unrelated development, the Chinese military plans to send nuclear submarines into the Pacific Ocean.
That's not cute. That's obnoxious. Cut that shit out.
There may be more, but the things I know don't work after installing Win10 include my laptop's webcam and speakers, and my combo printer/scanner/fax machine.
I'm taking an online class this summer, involving video conferencing, printing stuff and scannign my work to submit online. My kid can't skype with his remote grandparents.
Sorry MS, this is quite a fail.
There are allegedly Win10 drivers for stuff internal in my laptop, but I haven't yet solved that riddle satisfactorily.
The maker of my printer/scanner unit says NO, we wil lnot make any Win10 drivers for that. Screw you, buy a new one. IMHO, if MS is so insistent that Win7 and Win8 users change to Win10, then they should also make demands on vendors to mandatorily make Win10 drivers for any gizmos they made for Win7 or Win8. My printer/scanner has vendor supported drivers for both Win7 and 8, but MS wants to take this support away from me by not wanting me to continue using my Win7 Ultimate edition.
So, since stuff no longer works, and some of that stuff probably never will work again, should I be able to sue MS, since I'd have been find if we had not been hustled into this Win10 thing?
Before I allowed Win10 to do its thing, I did a clonezilla on my hard drive, so I can go back with a hard drive swap. Or so I assume and hope. Would MS have mangled the licensing to forbid that from working?
My wife didn't get any confirmation or anything when hers updated, and she was in the middle of some important work that she lost and had to do over a while later. She says she said no when it asked, and I assume she got scammed by the red X means yes trick. I don't know if that's what happened or not, but makes the most sense from what she told me. She was in Virtualbox installing RedHat when hers began Win10 install and that of course did not get saved properly when the rug underneath it was pulled.
Could it be Mr. Nadella is actually a bigger dick than Gates?
Is that possible?
Table-ized A.I.
Instead of the stick, Microsoft will now try the carrot.
Table-ized A.I.
Your printer/scanner probably even speaks the same (proprietary) protocol as modern, supported devices, and all it would take to make it work would be a hex editor... if not for driver signing.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Meh, Microsoft has already bribed and/or lobbied the politics to accept its actions. What the lawsuit would result is at most that customers would get a $5 discount coupon on Microsoft store.
Either GWX Control Panel or Never 10. Be sure to check for any newer versions.
I did ONE Windows 10 upgrade from 7. Almost 2 months later the Start menu was unresponsive. Common problem, left click on the Start menu and nothing happens. The only fix that worked was to create a new profile & transfer everything over.
1. The upgrade finally killed the (very old) hard drive in the PC. Errors everywhere, had to be replaced.
So the update found a latent hardware issue that was about to screw the entire system anyway leaving you in exactly the same position regardless if it happened or not?
Of all the Windows 10 stories I've seen, with this one I sympathise the least.
I used to hate the term shill as it was used to describe "everyone I disagree with". I hated it even more when I got called a shill, mainly because I figured if I should put up with that name calling the least someone could do was pay me for it.
But now... Despite all the good technical features windows 10 offers, and despite it being a somewhat solid system underneath MS's fucked up business decisions, people seem to defend the absolute indefensible.
I'm now reasonably certain there are MS shills on here.
The free upgrade period for Windows 10 ends in July. What happens after that? Microsoft is pushing it so hard that it's really hard to see them putting a price tag to it.
Only dumb birds land downwind.
Social media management has been an accepted cost of business for a long time now. You can bet your ass they've got armies of people spreading the good word.
well it wouldn't be the first time, they've done that once already
Whatever. The end result stays the same: he is now using something else.
Yeah, right. I call this story a complete bull !
I bet MS still installed all the 'telemetry' crap on your PC(s).
Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
Microsoft and Windows. And MA Office. And all the parasites that benefited from the chicanery that fucking group of assholes engaged in since the cuntpany was first conceived in the twisted, diseased mind of uberasshole William F. Gates the Turd.
Sorry, whuh? What about Windows 10?
Sorry, I admit I stopped paying attention after the word Microsoft, because...
Fuck Microsoft.
If Microsoft doesn't even look at the micro blogging site, what good does complaining on it do?
The users do not expect Microsoft do do anything. There is no way that Microsoft aren't aware that people think their way of pushing out Windows 10 is more or less illegal. (I evaluated Windows 7 and 8 and decided to buy 7. I wouldn't accept getting 8 pushed on me, why would I accept 10 getting pushed on me?)
Trying to reason with Microsoft is useless. What the users are trying to do is create enough public opinion that the Government sides with them on this matter.
At some point Microsoft has to be told to stop acting like dicks or GTFO.
That doesn't make sense..especially after they've "agreed" to switch the behaviour back to normal:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2459429/updategate-microsoft-climbs-down-from-deceitful-windows-10-ruse
The original behavior of X in that dialog even conflicted with their own user experience guidelines:
"The Close button on the title bar should have the same effect as the Cancel or Close button within the dialog box. Never give it the same effect as OK."
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dn742499%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
I just voluntarily upgraded to Windows 10 from 7 and love it. I didn't want to at first because I didn't like the way they worked in the stores. But I tried it 1st on my laptop which I hardly ever used and totally loved it. It's very fast, easy to use , very cool and keeps everything you had but adds so much more. The next day I upgraded my desktop. You would not believe how retrograde 7 is until you upgrade to 10. It's like the difference between 1080 & 4K. People - read the online reviews. All the pros are telling you to do it. I'm saying it's a must. It's really great.
Rather than punitive action, I propose we round up the board of directors and allow anyone who has a grievance to shit on them (literally) from a very great height. I suspect those nasty little updates would be removed very quickly.
1. Embrace Windows.
2. Extend to prevent updates.
3. ???
4. PROFIT!
I doubt that Microsoft is going to break Microsofts How to manage Windows 10 notification and upgrade options documentation.
Of course they would update the documentation to reflect the changes.
Yet you still didn't answer the question. Were you tricked or are you playing make believe?
You've got more faith in them than I do then. You know you are a powerful monopoly when you can routinely shit all over your customers, or as microsoft calls them, consumers, and they can't do anything about it except take it. Meanwhile shills and fanboys tell everyone how it's not shit but a wonderful new feature. All the while making money in the process.
Unfortunately when TTIP takes hold, every peasant will get screwed by his masters.
Unwanted update asside, what would have happend if the HD would have gone out without the upgrade? Hardware breaks. Shit happens.
The real issue here is that they did not have a backup in place. Even worse, they had a single point of failure and that broke.
Here is what should have happened:
1) Do the (or any) upgrade and it breaks
2) Restore the situation as to when it was not broken with backups.
3) Start looking at a solution for the failed upgrade.
This could be Windows, Linux kernel or Notepad upgrades for all I care. There should have been no reason for non working software (points 2-5) after a restore.
The real issue is that the company was not ready and it was just a disaster waiting to happen where the WIndows update was merely the last drip in the bucket.
To me an OS version update is nice when it works, but I NEVER expect it to do. And that is while running Linux and having done many upgrades without any issue. I will never expect it to work. I can hope, but never expect as people will never know what I have done to my machine after I first booted it.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Then can you explain why people are reporting this registry key being reverted back occasionally? Are they all lying?
as a business man myself, what fool does not have appropriate backukps and relies solely on one machine. If something is mission critical then it should have a backup both hardware AND software, probably both off and onsite. He is gambling with what he has there, that old pc could have died at any time.
I fixed a computer with similar problems: Win7Ultimate box. Sick of the forced upgrade nag screens and hidden updates. Also learned this is why my internet phone wasn't working for a day -- it was downloading Win10 in the background.
My solution:
Backed up my documents.
Wiped the drive.
Installed Ubuntu Linux.
Copied my documents back to the hard drive.
Spent a couple days getting familiar with Linux.
Got back to work.
Sadly, I'm not kidding.
Just like Robin Hood and Friar Tuck?
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
To the submitter: Please do not put links to a paywall site because it is absolutely fucking useless for the vast majority of people here.
"You've reached a subscriber-only article."
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
This was their only functioning workstation
This is why Microsoft doesn't give a shit if your customer is angry or not.
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
No, MS is an abbreviation. M$ is childless.
SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
slash is popular enough that it has attracted quite a lot of 'bad elements'.
there are paid shills here, absolutely sure of that. its obvious to anyone who has spent time here and seen the discourse.
it was once very left-leaning and progressive and now the conservatives have invaded and will mod down, in army-like fashion, anything they disagree with.
slash has been invaded. but most of us knew that years ago.
soylent is quite a lot better; but they are not the target that slash is, in terms of trying to counter-spin common sense.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
The majority of people hate Windows 10 - its a bag of shite compared to linux Mint.
I think there numbers are not as good as they pretend to be... and desperate times calls for desperate measures.
Microsoft have been overtaken by the marketing and sales bimbos - their lack of engineering skill and compelling products is too obvious.
Linux Mint is in a far superior class now and with Vulkan 3D api, the future is bright.
I believe that the only choices in that dialog are to click "OK" or to close the window with the little red "x". (at least that was true previously, the upgrade pop ups have been disabled on my work machine)
So wait, we cry foul when our Android phones don't get upgraded to the next version of Android, but damn Microsoft for upgrading everyone to Windows 10?
Yeah, I understand your Windows 7 works great on your ten-year-old PC, but it's going to run out of updates soon, and if your PC's that old maybe you should consider something a little more modern, or get a version of Linux that will keep it going. For the majority of "just make my PC work" folk, automatic upgrades are great. Keep the machine up to date and not force the users to think.
I think the word you're looking for is "barren"
I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen
Be sure to hang on to your Windows 7 ISOs and download Never10 in case you 'get upgraded' to Windows 10.
lost 4 hours of productivity [ trolling reddit ]...
Yes, but try explaining that to a Sr. Manager or bean-counter. It may be 2016, but clients still don't like support people walking in and telling them "you're PC's busted... pay money." "Not busted, working fine." "Microsoft has done something stupid. Must spend money, fix PC before breaks." "Nonesense! My equipment is functioning just fine.. leave me alone." "No. PC broken. Watch." **reboots PC, Windows 10 begins to install all by itself, freezes on blue-screen after third restart** "See, PC broken. That'll be $700."
Microsoft may seem like a bunch of idiots to IT savvy people, but to business types it appears much more like an extortion racket.
Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
Welcome to Slashdot - where even facts are modded flamebait by frothing zombies just because the facts happen to favor of Microsoft!
Bizarre. I said nothing there in favor of Microsoft. I was just clarifying misinformation coming from journalists reporting that the "x" button was what caused the upgrades. Which might lead someone to interpret it as "I'll reboot my computer instead, that will fix it!", or "I'll be smart and kill it with task manager instead!"
That is why this is deceptive. Microsoft knows the customers are not expecting to have to actively opt-out and that most are likely to just close the box instead of reading it closely. They probably have some tech savvy friends saying "Windows will never upgrade itself unless you agree" (and I know some of them).
Reverting back to 8.1 didn't work for me.
My laptop threw up the helpful "An error occurred" en that's that. My desktop computer did revert to 8.1 but borked a couple of drivers making the system crash when rebooting.
I'm not entirely convinced Microsoft didn't do that on purpose.
Look at the screenshot. There is a third choice. Windows 7 users may hot recognize it because it's in the new "Metro" UI style.
See: http://images.techhive.com/ima...
That word "here" in blue is a clickable link. Click on it and you can get somewhere to cancel the upgrade (not sure what it looks like there though).
Of course the Microsoft lawyers will interpret passive action as passive consent to the upgrade.
Oh ya, one more note, the new notification is not the same as the older ones that said "upgrade now" versus "start download and upgrade later" versus "X".
This is slightly tangential, but if you've 'upgraded' to Win 10 you can revert back to Win 7. I did this myself as I had issues with Win 10 breaking my router (as in it stopped working for all devices not just the PC) and I didn't know you could revert, but found some instructions online. If you've been hoodwinked into Win 10 and are not happy I suggest googling the steps to revert back to what you had before.
I wish I had a lawn.
I agree Windows 10 has a lot of features and improvements that are nice to have. It is the reason I upgraded myself to Windows 10, however I don't do an "upgrade" like most people have I always do OS Installs on a fresh format usually on a new hardrive with the old one still there as a backup.
After using windows 10 for months now however I must confess it also has features that I extremely dislike so I have both gained and lost. Windows update on windows 10 is no longer optional it is a mandatory process with a mandatory reboot. This along with a few other "features" has caused me some headache. I've managed to mitigate most of them. Its much more manageable now though since I figured out how to break part of the automatic reboot process since part of it is controlled by the task scheduler but it required changing ownership of several files and making them read only.
but average joes and janes who have no desire to become security experts and update ninjas just to keep their machine from changing its operating system on them. good job MS, alienating one of your most faithful demographics.
You don't have to be a security expert to run Linux. I have Grandmothers, Granddads, Truck Drivers, Ironworkers and other average Joes and Janes running Linux just fine.
You don't need to be a ninja to update either. All it takes when the update alert comes up is click and enter you password to update the WHOLE system and application. If you can't handle that well you should even have a computer of any kind.
Lets stop the lies about Linux.
to make lawyers rich and microsoft even richer?
No, let's have criminal charges laid against the Microsoft board for unauthorised access/tampering with private computer systems and maliciously putting user data at risk.
They won't get off THAT with money off vouchers.
yeah they'll just cover that with money off vouchers and opt-in rebates. Just like they did before. No, let's make the penalties STICK, like say JAIL TIME FOR BOARD MEMBERS for allowing or enabling malicious software putting user data at risk and hobbling productive economy. The only way that is gonna happen is with criminal charges.
It's easier to install Linux...
MS have always made decisions that benefit themselves and make the user miserable. Tying an insecure browser, email program, plugin system, and scripting system to its OS as well as office application suite. Resetting user preferences to default to Microsoft sites and applications. This particular misstep has been consistent in experience across users and professionals, and a consensus has been reached for the first time and absolutely nobody likes this. People are realizing they can't keep going back to the local geek or service center with their problems and they can choose other devices. They're very familiar with the competition and may have other non-MS devices already. Who knows though, the internet loves making a fuss, but then often rolls over.
haha. Childish.
I didn't ask to be up graded, my laptop just did with no input from me. I just want Windows 7 pro back - what a bunch of cunts
It is not just the update to Windows 10 that acts in this manner.
Windows Update in Windows 10 will often start to perform an update without regard that I may be working on something, causing me to lose data. This has happened to other people I know. A friend of mine was showing a video presentation when Windows Update started up and took over the PC. And there is no way to make Windows Update behave more civil other than to shut off the service.
If Microsoft wants people to keep their PC software up-to-date this is not the right approach.
Uni students.. One had the update fail and rollback, removing Office. Other had an assignment due and could not do the work cos of her slow laptop doing an update cos she left the room for a piss and missed the opportunity to click NO on the pop up. I mean fuck what?!?!? What is wrong with the people who thought this is a good idea??????
Did you try seeing if their software ran under WINE?
Microsoft needs to be taught a fucking lesson. Think of all the hundreds of millions of man hours of recovery work it has caused because of it's actions. It blue screened my laptop and now I've disabled updates. Microsoft can go fuck itself.
A Finnish lady marched into office of Microsoft with unwillingly updated computer and after threatening with a lawsuit got it back with Windows 7 the next day. Finnish Female marched into a Microsoft office Translated version
Windows finally became more difficult and a pain in the ass than Linux
ALL governments that are FOR the people should enact, and act, on legislation to allow buyers: 1) FULL disclosure of a product and it's usage ramifications, and; 2) have abilities to OPT IN what ever 'features' / settings are deemed desired, and; 3) charge ANY company fees to allow any product to do ANY advertising whatsoever.
Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
I wouldn't recommend upgrading any old PCs that are already past their end-of-life support. However, if you do want to continue like me, it will take some witch hunting to get the proper windows drivers with almost zero support from the manufacturer. Know what you want, and make sure your legacy apps or games that you own run on the new Windows 10. However, if you have a decent and more recent desktop, the by all means go upgrade and have fun.
https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9179991&cid=52224549
https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9168173&cid=52204731
If you are going to set up a class action lawsuit - COUNT ME IN!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is an all time LOW for microsoft!!