Slashdot Mirror
Massive Backlash Building Over Windows 10 Upgrades (fortune.com)
Some Windows users are now disabling critical updates on their systems rather than face the prospect of mistakenly upgrading to Windows 10. An anonymous reader writes:
"By pushing it on users in such a heavy-handed way, Microsoft is encouraging users who have very valid reasons to stick with Windows 7/8 to perform actions that leave their machines open to attack," writes PC World's senior editor. He adds that "Over the past week, I've received more contact from readers about this issue than I have about everything else I've written over the rest of my career combined."
Now even China's official news agency is reporting that users are angry about stealthy Windows 10 upgrades, saying over 1.2 million complaints appeared on one microblogging site. It quotes a legal advisor with the Internet Society of China, who says Microsoft "has abused its dominant market position and broken the market order for fair play," saying that lawsuits would be justified over Microsoft's action. "Yang Shuo, a worker at a Beijing-based public relations company, told Xinhua that the sudden update interrupted his drafting of a business plan and led to a meeting cancellation for a deal worth 3 million yuan ($457,735). 'Just because I didn't see the pop-up reminder does not mean I agreed.'"
In a possibly-unrelated development, the Chinese military plans to send nuclear submarines into the Pacific Ocean.
Now even China's official news agency is reporting that users are angry about stealthy Windows 10 upgrades, saying over 1.2 million complaints appeared on one microblogging site. It quotes a legal advisor with the Internet Society of China, who says Microsoft "has abused its dominant market position and broken the market order for fair play," saying that lawsuits would be justified over Microsoft's action. "Yang Shuo, a worker at a Beijing-based public relations company, told Xinhua that the sudden update interrupted his drafting of a business plan and led to a meeting cancellation for a deal worth 3 million yuan ($457,735). 'Just because I didn't see the pop-up reminder does not mean I agreed.'"
In a possibly-unrelated development, the Chinese military plans to send nuclear submarines into the Pacific Ocean.
Yes, I am writing a business plan too ,
Dammit, I just lost $457,000!!!
*Goes to join the MPAA and BSA to help them explain how their lost profits are calculated*
E
When they approved a security update installs a Windows 10 nag they all but proved there are no updates left for Windows 7 regardless of when the "end of life" is. So people cut them off.
If Microsoft doesn't even look at the micro blogging site, what good does complaining on it do?
Oh, and HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate /v "DisableOSUpgrade" /t REG_DWORD /d 0x1
So don't call it Windows 10. Call it the largest security update ever provided.
EU should act over forced upgrades via deception
Just like they did with IE bundling, and now Google bundling.
EU should take Microsoft to the cleaners for forcing W10 underhand
Slashdot editors have been trained to cross-promote in every story rather than actually contributing their own thoughts.
The subs will sit off the coast of Washington, ready to fire at the next automatic update.... That's if they're not running Windows onboard.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
"Oh, and HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate /v "DisableOSUpgrade" /t REG_DWORD /d 0x1"
Silly rabbit, the next Windows critical security update will fix that registry error you just created.
Unfortunately if TTIP takes hold, every consumer will get screwed by big business.
First off, your off topic. This article has nothing do with Apple.
It wrong with Apple does it and it's wrong when Microsoft does it. That said, what Microsoft is doing would be the equivalent of installing the update when you hit no/cancel in your iPad.
SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
If people weren't such nancy pushovers this automatic "opting in" garbage would have been dealt with by the regulators already but I'm sure screwing common folks up the bum is business as usual for them.
Win 10 will dominate the Windows market, the world will move on, and Microsoft will consider defending and possibly losing a massive class action suit as merely a cost of business.
What really needs to change across the board is the sizes of penalties in both civil and criminal suits against big companies. When the typical award is between 50 and 500 times what it is today, large corporations will tread more lightly. Until then, law suits, fines, etc. are just a business expense that the C-levels have already predicted and the bean counters have factored into their projections.
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
Create a blank .reg file and put this in it
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Gwx]
"DisableGwx"=dword:00000001
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]
"DisableOSUpgrade"=dword:00000001
Then run it, alternative manually add those keys to the registry yourself.
Yes, I know this isn't exactly user friendly and NO it shouldn't be necessary but it works all the time, every time.
It's even documented on the Microsoft website, go on have a look : https://support.microsoft.com/...
Why this is STILL not common knowledge I don't know. All you get from everyone is bitching how "Microsoft shouldn't be doing this" and "how dare they have the gall to do this". If EVERYONE on Slashdot put some effort in to spreading the word about this pretty simple fix, then a LOT of people would not end up with Windows 10 when they don't want it.
Hey maybe Slashdot could run a quick piece on it? Perhaps spread the word to some mainstream press with a link to a reg file hosted by someone trustworthy.
Alternatively let's all just keep rehashing the same fucking discussions about how "update KBwhatever" keeps coming back when hiding that has never been they way to fix this problem.
I'd like to see a nasty class action lawsuit against Microsoft in this issue. Not that I like lawyers but this is a very damaging and deceptive action on Microsoft's behalf.
...this had been opt-in instead of try-repeatedly-to-opt-out, Microsoft might been able to gain lots of positive press for offering a newer, allegedly safer, somewhat spying OS for free.
As is, with it being rammed down people's downlinks with little or no regards for the users wishes or data-caps, the angry backlash should been predicted and expected.
Everything in the world is controlled by a small, evil group to which, unfortunately, no one you know belongs.
Microsoft is assaulting its user base with features and upgrades that they don't want.
hounding, harassing, misleading, and tricking users into doing things they don't want to do is a great way to lose even more market share and foster an even more toxic reputation that Microsoft is unscrupulous and an increasing unnecessary nuisance.
it is hilarious to me that there are actually people here who will defend MS and even blame users for their OS being upgraded against their intentions.
when you have to watch your own system like a hawk and protect it from multiple vectors of attack ... from the company that MADE that OS ... man, it is time to re-evaluate whether it's worth the hassle at all. amazingly, Microsoft has managed to plant that seed of thought not in rabble-rousing Linux faithful, but average joes and janes who have no desire to become security experts and update ninjas just to keep their machine from changing its operating system on them. good job MS, alienating one of your most faithful demographics.
i could live a little longer in this prison
The support period for Windows 7 and 8 has not run out yet, so why does everyone claim that not upgrading to Windows 10 will leave open machines for attack? Does Microsoft plan to not put out any more security updates for older systems or is this fear mongering to draw more people to Windows 10?
Both would be bad.
I am installing GRC's never10 at an alarming rate. I have had to make at least $1600 in the last week alone charging $25.00 for the 10 minutes it takes to install it on their personal computers..
Thank you once again Microsoft for making the IT guys job more relevant than ever, at this rate I'll be able to afford a vacation home by fall.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
adds a workaround. I did a couple of different registry tricks, but I still ended up with 10 on my 7 desktop this week without my permission.
First off, your off topic. This article has nothing do with Apple.
He's commenting on the heavy, biased, and relative over-reporting of the Microsoft windows 10 upgrade push issue while any one else who does it is given a free pass.
Apple is just an example.My mom's ipad nags her to upgrade every single day. Where are the stories that apple is pushing unwanted upgrades with no way to shut them off?
It wrong with Apple does it and it's wrong when Microsoft does it.
Quite. But it's apparently only newsworthy when Microsoft does it?
That said, what Microsoft is doing would be the equivalent of installing the update when you hit no/cancel in your iPad.
Its really not.
Suppose Adobe flash pops up and says it will complete the flash upgrade install when you reboot your PC. with a single button that says: "OK"
Clicking the window corner close-window "X" or even hitting "Alt-F4"... only an idiot would think these actions some how would ever "Cancel" the flash upgrade next time it the computer reboots. That's not how it works, and everybody with half a brain knows that's not how it works. Expecting doing that to cancel windows 10 upgrade is just... silly. Spilling a bunch of ink over it is even sillier.
Complain rightfully that Microsoft is being aggressive, belligerent, and ought to stop, or even be sanctioned... but there's no reason to imagine nonsense about the X button, which is doing exactly what its always done: dismiss the window. Whether or not it cancels the action... some times it does, other times it doesn't...it depends. You can't assume it's cancelled and there are countless examples where dismissing a notification window doesn't cancel...
Here's another... If outlook pops up a window saying you have a meeting in an hour, and you click the 'x' in the corner, or alt-f4 outlook... it doesn't cancel the meeting.
All you did was dismiss the window. Spilling ink with headlines like "clicking X on outlook notifications doesn't cancel the event! waaaaahhhh!" is just silly.
I feel a bit conflicted on this one. On the one hand, you're absolutely correct - MS is pushing this to monetise the OS and use windows store platformto generate a new revenue stream to compensate for the drop in PC sales etc.
But on the other hand Windows 10 has some stuff in it I really like. Ignoring briefly the dubious back peddling on the ux disaster that was 8 and 8.1 there's some nice stuff in there like OneGete and powershell 5 and native stuff like virtual desktops and forthcoming ssh and bash shell etc. Some stuff lifted from other platforms who but nice nonetheless.
The real problem is it's gonna only get worse as they try and suck everything into Azure and Office 365 and a variety of other vendor lock in stuff. All looks somewhat enticing now while they love all the open source at the moment. But this can't last.
All my 7 installs are Enterprise, which are "not eligible" for this "free upgrade" lol.
.
Microsoft missed the 'no means no' portion of sex-ed class...
...it is hilarious to me that there are actually people here who will defend MS...
It wouldn't surprise me if there were paid shills defending Microsoft on the boards. Probably wouldn't be the first time Microsoft did something like that.
Don't like Windows? Don't use it. Done.
Some of us have to. I hate the thing but I work with certain hardware/software combinations for which Windows is still the only option.
soylentnews.org
I would probably buy win10 on my next new computer without giving it a second thought but I'm very resistant to upgrading my win 8.1 system.
On top of that, Microsoft's behavior is giving me a strong push towards linux for my main permanent box.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Where are all these people finding iPads that nag them to update every day? We use them for testing, and I've never seen more than a message when a new version of iOS is available and then the little marker like all the other apps with available updates on the relevant screen.
Apple certainly do some shady things in terms of trying to drive updates. They stop apps that don't favour newer iOS versions being available in the App Store. They provide no mechanism to back out of an update if it doesn't work. They should be, and sometimes actually are, criticised for these things. But I've never seen anything to suggest they harass users the way Microsoft have been recently or automatically install anything unless the user actively opts out.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Wow! Many of the comments above have somewhat justified or accepted Microsoft's abuse.
1) Can we have a court case to force Microsoft to sell everyone the Enterprise version of Windows 10?
2) On Windows 7 and 8, turn off automatic updates and use Autopatcher. Unfortunately, Autopatcher has not begun supporting Windows 10. We need independent control over Windows operating system updates. How can we achieve that?
3) Don't let Windows connect to the internet. Use 2 separate networks. There would need to be some way for the separate networks to communicate. Internet access could be done using separate computers running Linux.
Microsoft has a long, long history of releasing defective code and fixing it later. After fixing 2,722 vulnerabilities and other defects, Microsoft declared Microsoft Windows XP "end of life". After fixing almost 3,000 defects, Microsoft declared Windows XP was too vulnerable to use.
We still have 17 computers running Windows XP with a software firewall. We've had no problems. Everyone is a limited rights user.
4) We need international support for a Windows-compatible operating system, like ReactOS.
5) Maybe the U.S. government now only helps the rich gets richer. The European government could bring a huge court case against Microsoft.
Don't use m$ products, problem solved.
I guess you werent around when Microsoft was convicted of being an abusive monopoly....
Good-bye
Argue away, but the fact is Slashdot warned me in time. I thought I had put Win X to bed a long time ago, but up it pops again. I killed it again, thanks to Slashdot. Don't know how long it will stay dead, but at least it is for now.
How about a moderation of -1 pedantic.
The iOS control panel allows you to disable automatic downloading and installation of OS updates.
Windows does not.
It's really that simple.
My parents were just hit with the Windows10 upgrade. I had not bothered to block it on their computer. They are older and now more confused than ever about what happened without their permissions. Many of their saved passwords were cleared out to sites. They struggle to use Windows as it is and Microsoft does not make it easy on a normal day. I truly think that a massive class action suit against Microsoft would easily win hands down.
The first law firm to step up and push it right could make some money. End users may not get a whole lot out of it, but it might make MS shut up and listen.
An no I normally don't like these types of law suits and don't like most lawyers, but this clearly shows need.
My folks were already on the verge of going to a Mac. this may push them over the edge.
(For whoever missed the reference and thought I was trolling: here you go.)
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
I'd like to see a nasty class action lawsuit against Microsoft in this issue.
And I'd like to join it.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
So go tell Grandma how to do sort it out.
Alternatively just talk about grandma on the internet and how bad Windows 10 is.
Silly rabbit, the next Windows critical security update will fix that registry error you just created.
I doubt that Microsoft is going to break Microsofts How to manage Windows 10 notification and upgrade options documentation.
A few days ago I fixed a business computer. It kept nagging and finally installed Windows 10.
The result?
1. The upgrade finally killed the (very old) hard drive in the PC. Errors everywhere, had to be replaced.
2. The old office suite no longer worked.
3. The antivirus messed up.
4. Somehow during the process the email screwed up and they lost some of it (not repairable.)
5. The custom order entry system he used no longer ran.
So a new hard drive was installed and Win7 put back on. Everything was reinstalled, and I put in the GPO policies and registry tweaks that stop W10 for now... until Microsoft decides to change it again.
When I told them they'd have to probably spend $700+ replacing their old software (and still risk the order entry system not working) they were very mad at Microsoft. This was their only functioning workstation and so its lost definitely affected business operations. The computer store was backlogged over a week (!) fixing issues like this one so they called me.
http://osxdaily.com/2016/01/04...
Option 1: Punt the iOS Update for 24 Hours
If you take this route, get used to pressing Later and Remind Me Later repeatedly, as in 24 hours you'll be asked about it again. And 24 hours later, again. And another 24 hours later, you can go through the process yet again, until you either give in or move along with another of the options below.
That was option 1. The other options are even more awesome.
Option 2: delete update and avoid wifi forever.
This deletes the available iOS update which stops the iOS update from popping up every day, however, the moment you're on a sustained wi-fi connection for a while the iOS update will download itself again automatically and start sending pop-ups to install it again.
Option 3: Accept the update.
Avoid the upgrade reminders by accepting the update. yay solution!
Option 4: Block the update domains on your firewall.
Of course this means blocking all updates for all apple devices on the LAN... and only works while you are at home; so hardly a solution at all really.
This is just as shite as Microsoft, if not worse.
They should force Microsoft to include an OS choice screen, like the browser choice one. A selection of alternate operating systems, including Ubuntu, Tails and ChromeOS. There would need to be some kind of mechanism in there for processing refunds for the unused Windows licence too.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Why do you say disabling recommended updates is an extreme? I always disable them. They aren't the same as the critical security updates, they are just various driver updates, langauge packs, and the like. And the update to Windows 10. I've never had any issues with Windows 10 upgrades or nagging notifications since I've had recommended (Again, not critical) updates turned off the whole time.
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
> I feel a bit conflicted on this one. ... But on the other hand Windows 10 has some stuff in it I really like.
Suppose for a moment that Windows 10 was awesome, as good as sex. And Microsoft is forcing it upon people who don't want it. How do you feel about forcing sex on someone who doesn't it? Still conflicted?
In my case, I have expensive hardware which is controlled by a Windows application, an application which doesn't run in Windows 10. Without Windows 7 or earlier, I have to throw out several thousand dollars worth of equipment.
The title is wrong. It should read :
"Not enough Backlash Building Over Windows 10 Upgrades "
aaaaaaa
I know they're not perfect, but the majority of Apple updates just work and don't revamp the complete user experience.
There are two parts to this problem:
* Aggressive updates that almost try to trick you (Apple at least doesn't do the tricking part)
* Updates that break things
It's turtles all the way down.
Boy, PC World, and its dozens of tracking includes on the page, are really milking this Windows10 story.
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
What's more, the notification windows says right in the middle "CLICK HERE TO CHANGE SCHEDULE OR CANCEL THE UPGRADE": http://core0.staticworld.net/i... So why do people who do not want the upgrade actually read the text and click there? Are they just mindlessly X-ing everything away?
People don't read the page, the scan the page. Do a test with a group of people and an eye tracker, and they will probably see this on average:
1. Windows 10 is recommended upgrade for this PC (“I'd rather not”)
2. Sunday, May 22, 11:00 PM (“Certainly not! Bugger off”)
3. OK (“No, it's not OK”)
4. Upgrade Now (“FU! Where's the other option ?????”)
5. X (“That's want I want: CANCEL the incestuous bastard”)
The broken HDD is very common. Many drives, as they age, effectively become 'read only'- where the heads reliably retrieve files, but new write operations damage the surface of the aged platters.
MS just doesn't give a damn. The upgrade triggers a vast number of write operations, and as sector failures occur, Microsoft's dreadful HDD 'fix' program kick in trashing the enture drive. No yes, dribblers and creps will tediously claim this is the 'fault' of the owner for not replacing the drive when it got to this state- point the saliennt point is that the HDD faults were currently NON-CRITICAL, and the user OS settings reasonable for continued use.
Installing a new OS on an OLD machine should only be done to a new drive, SSD or memory stick. The old drive must be left alone (and yes, someone really should copy the criticla files to a new storage location- but we all know that).
I was under the impression that they've already done so at least twice in the last few months.
Oh, how nice. Grandpa over here is bringing back the M$ way of typing Microsoft.
It's idiotic and adds nothing to the discussion. I bet you spell America as Amerika too... Yawn.
Grow up, AC. "M$" is just a frigging abbreviation. Yes, it is usually used negatively, but it's still just an abbreviation.
Using your "logic" we should stop calling desktop computers "PCs". After all, that "ancient" term was first used several decades ago.
Idiots. Everywhere I turn, nothing but idiots.
Care to share the actual damages you suffered at the hands of this free update reminder?
My time. I could have used it to better myself, or masturbate or whatever.
Please don't tell us you were tricked into installing it since you don't use Windows
Who told you that? I talk about using Windows all the time. I paid for Win7Pro, on purpose.
and according to you, you are the smartest motherfucker ever to walk the face of the earth.
Alas, I still talk to ACs, so that can't possibly be the case.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The result?
2. The old office suite no longer worked.
A friend of mine had W10 forced on him recently. He didn't notice an option to cancel the "upgrade", although it could have been there. After W10 was installed, his Office 2010 demanded the product key. He couldn't find his original installation media, so he couldn't use Office. He had something that he needed to do in Word, so he looked for alternatives. Another friend suggested OpenOffice, and he installed it just fine. He called me for help using OO, since he knows I use it in Linux. I helped him resolve his technical issue, and we have another happy non-Microsoft user.
Since he paid for Office, he should be able to use it for as long as he wants to. The fact that W10 breaks an existing installation is silly and underhanded.
Go Microsoft! Keep shooting yourself in the foot. Class action lawsuits rarely accomplish anything more than making a few lawyers richer than they already are. With that in mind, the best chance that Linux fans have is for Microsoft to alienate their customers so badly that they look for non-Microsoft alternatives. So far, Microsoft is doing a wonderful job of alienating their users.
You can always decline the update and the phone will respect your choice, but I seem to be wrong about the ability to disable automatic downloading of the updates.
Some people say that you can go to Settings -> iTunes & App Store, scroll down to 'Automatic Downloads', and turn off the Updates switch, but others say that doesn't apply to iOS updates, just apps.
So, Apple doesn't appear to give users the option to disable update prompts altogether. Which I agree is unacceptable, even though an iOS version update is nowhere near as hazardous as a Windows version update.
When something pops up you might be in the middle of typing something, such that you press a couple more keys out of inertia before you've fully registered the popup... I've had that happen on many occasion and it's extremely annoying...
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
I have disabled update process entirely for any home machines I am responsible for..None of my computers can run it effectively as they are older hardware, and the BS about "bettter performance" and "working fine on older machines" is just lies!.
OSX only offers to auto install minor updates, to update to a newer version of OSX you have to go into the app store and manually choose to download it.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
They need the old version of Office to work with their order entry system. Switching it to something else was not an option, and there's no guarantee it will work with the newer versions of Office.
Which I agree is unacceptable, even though an iOS version update is nowhere near as hazardous as a Windows version update.
Uh...
The "x" does what you think it does. It closes the notification. It does not cause upgrades to happen, and it does not stop upgrades from happening, it only closes the window. The problem is that the update is scheduled already by the time that notification appears, and you must cancel the scheduled upgrade while still in that windows instead of closing it.
And you don't call that deceptive?
They need to bring this to court, so a judge can solve this the right way-
"Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella, this court is considering fining MSoft $100Billion. But I'll totally give you an out- my laptop is running an app that sets the actual fine. If you can figure out how to get the app to NOT fine you, then we'll go with that. Otherwise you're assumed to have agreed with this dollar amount, and waived your rights to appeal. You have five minutes, and... GO!"
I am not a sig.
That alone isn't enough. They needed to be fined enough that they get the message. There's no way their legal department didn't inform the higher ups that this kind of abuse would leave them open to liability, but the past has proved to them any resulting fines are a minor fraction of the money they made doing it. The only way to actually discourage this kind of behavior is to make the fine so severe that their shareholders take notice. I'm thinking a whole quarters profit should get that message across, which Google tells me was $5bn in Q1 2015.
Which action gave Microsoft permission to install the forced upgrade?
sPh
Years and years of scummy, shady web-based malware pop-up windows with fake "Yes" and "No" buttons that do the same thing have conditioned many users to opt for the "close windows" X button as a more fool-proof way to ensure that nothing happens.
But as others have pointed out it's too late by the time this window appears, and they don't believe the only real solution, hitting the "cancel update" button will work.
-- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
Most Apple users are just bending over and are happily accepting anything that their supreme leader decides to thrust against them. Microsoft has slightly different history with treating customers than Apple, hence the backslash.
That must be the reason my iPad 2 runs OS X 7, my MacBook Pro runs OS X 10.9, and until I DECIDED to upgrade my iPhone 6 plus last week, it was running iOS 8.4, the version it came with.
I'll sign that petition! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit!
What do we want?
Lawsuit!
When do we want it?
Now!
What do we want?
Lawsuit!
When do we want it?
Now!
Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit! Law-suit!
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
$700 should not have been a large portion of the annual income for a business, I would think, if they relied so much on a single workstation.
It sounds like it was old enough to require either replacing or a HDD upgrade already.
No excusing the unexpected upgrade, but the business seems to be partly at fault for the extent of the damage and down-time.
If I had a DeLorean... I would probably only drive it from time to time.
Since he paid for Office, he should be able to use it for as long as he wants to. The fact that W10 breaks an existing installation is silly and underhanded.
He didn't pay for Office. He paid for a license to use Office. I don't think that windows 10 broke that, it simply required proof of said license purchase, which is the one part of your Office pack that you should never throw away, lose, or borrow from somebody else.
If I had a DeLorean... I would probably only drive it from time to time.
Create an admin user then create another unprivileged account. Use this account to do your work. Windows will still download window s 10 but the installer will ask for the admin account before installing.
I was under the impression that they've already done so at least twice in the last few months.
It's what I have followed to keep my Win 7 machines on Win 7 and there has yet to be any attempt to update them to Windows 10.
While removing features and compatibility that they do want.
Yes, you stupid fool, if it was the fucking tire maker who deliberately punctured your tire!
I know Apple ain't perfect, but when Win 10 showed up uninvited on a family machine, it clashed with an Netgear AC wireless dongle. Took about two hours to realize that was the problem... Since all I do is Word or Excel, I'm happy to pay the Apple tax...they never stole my time like this.....and time spent fixing a computer that was NOT broken is truly wasted time.
Run GWX Control Panel in monitor mode.
http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/08/using-gwx-stopper-to-permanently-remove.html
You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
It is highly deceptive. But claiming that the "x" installs windows is also deceptive, or uninformed.
Which part is the lie "macs4all" ?
The part where I know family members who have to cancel their unwanted ios update every single day? Or the part where I sourced that article that shows that 4 ridiculous workarounds?
At least there are easy 3rd party apps one can use with windows to shut it up, or one can turn off windows updates entirely.
Neither is an option with ios.
They've already resorted to unhiding updates that the user hid. What makes you think they won't undo other actions the user takes to explicitly reject an update?
Yes, that is quite annoying. It happens a lot less often in windows 10 with the improvements to the notification area that doesn't steal the focus when notifications popup.
Its one of the (many) actual improvements in Windows 10.*
If Microsoft would pull its head out of its ass and let 10 sell it self it would. All the negative word of mouth about 10 are connected to the telemetry being forced on, and the windows updates from 7/8 being obnoxious.
Is this some weird thing that phone companies can turn on or something? That article is several months old, but I have never seen anything like that behaviour on the test iPad I have here.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
In a possibly-unrelated development, the Chinese military plans to send nuclear submarines into the Pacific Ocean.
That's not cute. That's obnoxious. Cut that shit out.
There may be more, but the things I know don't work after installing Win10 include my laptop's webcam and speakers, and my combo printer/scanner/fax machine.
I'm taking an online class this summer, involving video conferencing, printing stuff and scannign my work to submit online. My kid can't skype with his remote grandparents.
Sorry MS, this is quite a fail.
There are allegedly Win10 drivers for stuff internal in my laptop, but I haven't yet solved that riddle satisfactorily.
The maker of my printer/scanner unit says NO, we wil lnot make any Win10 drivers for that. Screw you, buy a new one. IMHO, if MS is so insistent that Win7 and Win8 users change to Win10, then they should also make demands on vendors to mandatorily make Win10 drivers for any gizmos they made for Win7 or Win8. My printer/scanner has vendor supported drivers for both Win7 and 8, but MS wants to take this support away from me by not wanting me to continue using my Win7 Ultimate edition.
So, since stuff no longer works, and some of that stuff probably never will work again, should I be able to sue MS, since I'd have been find if we had not been hustled into this Win10 thing?
Before I allowed Win10 to do its thing, I did a clonezilla on my hard drive, so I can go back with a hard drive swap. Or so I assume and hope. Would MS have mangled the licensing to forbid that from working?
My wife didn't get any confirmation or anything when hers updated, and she was in the middle of some important work that she lost and had to do over a while later. She says she said no when it asked, and I assume she got scammed by the red X means yes trick. I don't know if that's what happened or not, but makes the most sense from what she told me. She was in Virtualbox installing RedHat when hers began Win10 install and that of course did not get saved properly when the rug underneath it was pulled.
Could it be Mr. Nadella is actually a bigger dick than Gates?
Is that possible?
Table-ized A.I.
Instead of the stick, Microsoft will now try the carrot.
Table-ized A.I.
Your printer/scanner probably even speaks the same (proprietary) protocol as modern, supported devices, and all it would take to make it work would be a hex editor... if not for driver signing.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Which action gave Microsoft permission to install the forced upgrade?
I can't speak for everyone, but I can say with surety that Microsoft asked me for my permission to install Windows 10. They asked me fairly early, so it was before the full extent of telemetry was well-known, and I said yes. I am still running Windows 7; I cancelled the process, then went on to hide updates, and use GWX Control Panel to "make sure" that something Microsoft does in the future doesn't bring it back. I've also used this thread to compile a batch to remove the offensive updates (telemetry, windows 10 related, etc) which I would paste here if allowed. But it isn't. It's not a difficult exercise anyway.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
All the negative word of mouth about 10 are connected to the telemetry being forced on, and the windows updates from 7/8 being obnoxious.
don't forget the typical lack of drivers. all of my hardware is pretty recent (except my printer, which speaks PCL and PS) so I suspect it would all work OK, but telemetry is a non-starter. But a lot of people are having driver problems of the usual sort that tends to accompany a new windows version. really the only time that hasn't been true has been win2k->winxp, and vista->win7... for obvious reasons. Every other windows upgrade is accompanied by the sound of pocketbooks emptying as people buy new printers, multifunction devices, and scanners in particular. A while later, they show up at a flea market or yard sale for a few bucks, and then I use them with Linux.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
That said, what Microsoft is doing would be the equivalent of installing the update when you hit no/cancel in your iPad.
Interestingly enough what happens when you hit no / cancel, and then you have a problem with your iPad? Take it to either the genius bar, get a warranty replacement, or do a factory restore using iTunes and then tell me how much of a "choice" you have staying with the OS version of your choice.
Though I do agree there's an order of magnitude difference between forcing an update on a PC which may have all sorts of critical use cases, and forcing an update on a toy.
Liar. I sit here typing this on my iPad 2, running iOS 7. It is eligible for iOS 9.2.3 (or whatever the most recent rev. Is); bit I don't CHOOSE to upgrade. About once every few weeks, I see a REMINDER that the new version of iOS is ready for download. I DISMISS the Dialog by clicking "Not Now" or whatever, and THAT IS THE END OF THAT.
I have an iPad Pro 9.7 running iOS 9.3.1, and *every* day I get a reminder for upgrading to iOS 9.3.2, even though it has been pulled for that particular model due to a nasty bricking bug. When I press select the option to postpone the installation, I get sent to a login screen with a very well hidden "press here to cancel update" link. You really ought to do your research before throwing around words like liar and asshole.
The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
I used to hate the term shill as it was used to describe "everyone I disagree with". I hated it even more when I got called a shill, mainly because I figured if I should put up with that name calling the least someone could do was pay me for it.
But now... Despite all the good technical features windows 10 offers, and despite it being a somewhat solid system underneath MS's fucked up business decisions, people seem to defend the absolute indefensible.
I'm now reasonably certain there are MS shills on here.
The free upgrade period for Windows 10 ends in July. What happens after that? Microsoft is pushing it so hard that it's really hard to see them putting a price tag to it.
Only dumb birds land downwind.
I bet MS still installed all the 'telemetry' crap on your PC(s).
Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
Unwanted update asside, what would have happend if the HD would have gone out without the upgrade? Hardware breaks. Shit happens.
The real issue here is that they did not have a backup in place. Even worse, they had a single point of failure and that broke.
Here is what should have happened:
1) Do the (or any) upgrade and it breaks
2) Restore the situation as to when it was not broken with backups.
3) Start looking at a solution for the failed upgrade.
This could be Windows, Linux kernel or Notepad upgrades for all I care. There should have been no reason for non working software (points 2-5) after a restore.
The real issue is that the company was not ready and it was just a disaster waiting to happen where the WIndows update was merely the last drip in the bucket.
To me an OS version update is nice when it works, but I NEVER expect it to do. And that is while running Linux and having done many upgrades without any issue. I will never expect it to work. I can hope, but never expect as people will never know what I have done to my machine after I first booted it.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Just like Robin Hood and Friar Tuck?
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
People who put web links (or web-style links) on the word "here" should be drawn and quartered. There's also very bad contrast between one word in dark blue next to the rest of the words in black on a white background, making it hard to even see that it's a link, not to mention that the word "here" isn't underlined, further reducing its visibility as an active UI element, to the point where one might suspect that it was made intentionally hard to see.
3GB+ file download. Internet access fees may apply."
Thanks Microsoft, for going ahead and downloading it for everyone anyhow! My experience was that the thing dumped 6.5 GB in a hidden folder with fucked up access permissions (so you couldn't delete it even as Administrator without doing some deep magic). Good thing I caught it in time. But I would have to admit that yes, that was in fact more than 3GB.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
and they don't believe the only real solution, hitting the "cancel update" button will work.
It might matter if it was actually a button. Instead, it's the word "here", in blue, without even an underline to draw attention to it as something clickable. Having to click on the word "here" to stop a forced upgrade is much dumber than having to click on the Start menu to shut down the system.
The only real solution is to put Windows Update on full manual mode, then ignore it. But you have to do that before the GWX update installs, or after you manually remove it.
Well, actually, the only real solution is Linux, but that's a bit much for most people. And that brings in the whole systemd thing. Maybe BSD?
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
To the submitter: Please do not put links to a paywall site because it is absolutely fucking useless for the vast majority of people here.
"You've reached a subscriber-only article."
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
"Apple is just an example.My mom's ipad nags her to upgrade every single day. Where are the stories that apple is pushing unwanted upgrades with no way to shut them off?"
I get nagged every few days to upgrade my iphone and a simple touch of the screen puts the annoying box away.
I clicked yes once by mistake and got a confirmation box, where I clicked no.
There was no automatic installing at random hours.
There was no installing anyway when I clicked anywhere other than 'no'.
When I clicked yes by mistake, a verification gave me the chance to say 'no' again.
So no, it isn't the same thing that Windows 10 (aka Windows Shaft) has been doing to users - including my father in law the doctor who clicked on the x and had his system upgraded anyway, resulting in his medical applications no longer running.
No, it really isn't the same thing at all.
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
This was their only functioning workstation
This is why Microsoft doesn't give a shit if your customer is angry or not.
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
No, MS is an abbreviation. M$ is childless.
SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
slash is popular enough that it has attracted quite a lot of 'bad elements'.
there are paid shills here, absolutely sure of that. its obvious to anyone who has spent time here and seen the discourse.
it was once very left-leaning and progressive and now the conservatives have invaded and will mod down, in army-like fashion, anything they disagree with.
slash has been invaded. but most of us knew that years ago.
soylent is quite a lot better; but they are not the target that slash is, in terms of trying to counter-spin common sense.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
I believe that the only choices in that dialog are to click "OK" or to close the window with the little red "x". (at least that was true previously, the upgrade pop ups have been disabled on my work machine)
No, it really isn't the same thing at all.
On the other hand, Microsoft makes it easy to roll back to your existing version of windows after you update; good luck doing that with Apple.
So wait, we cry foul when our Android phones don't get upgraded to the next version of Android, but damn Microsoft for upgrading everyone to Windows 10?
Yeah, I understand your Windows 7 works great on your ten-year-old PC, but it's going to run out of updates soon, and if your PC's that old maybe you should consider something a little more modern, or get a version of Linux that will keep it going. For the majority of "just make my PC work" folk, automatic upgrades are great. Keep the machine up to date and not force the users to think.
No, it really isn't the same thing at all.
On the other hand, Microsoft makes it easy to roll back to your existing version of windows after you update; good luck doing that with Apple.
Fair point but I still don't class it up there with surprise unstoppable upgrades of the OS.
If Apple does go that route then I'll be screaming right along with the rest.
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
I think the word you're looking for is "barren"
I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen
Kindle Fire pushed an update that broke Android File Transfer
I have a Kindle Fire, 7in, HD. Came with OS 4.5.
This was the first Kindle I had that could not just be hooked up to my Mac and appear as a drive. But in fairness, it was also my first kindle that was more than just a book reader.
Still, using Android File Transfer, it could move books onto it. No problem.
I had a chance to try out OS 5.something on the newer 6in. Decided that it wasn't worth it (this was when I was buying it -- the older generation, twice the price, 7in HD was a better buy than the cheaper, lower-quality, newer 6in). I did not like the new OS. Did not want it. And yes, that was a factor, but not the deciding factor, in getting the 7in.
Then, OS 5 was pushed on me by force. Could not undo. Called up Amazon. Was told that it was possible to revert by doing a "restore to factory settings", to put it back the way it was, and that doing so would tell the update system not to force a re-update.
Well, if I attempted to restore my backup from Amazon, that would force an upgrade to the newest OS.
And attempting to revert without restoring? Still left me with the new OS.
There's no way to go back. Heck, iOS doesn't let you go back either, but last I checked, it did not force you to upgrade if you didn't want to.
The only good thing about the win10 upgrade is that you *CAN* go back.
No one else lets you go back.
More and more, everyone is forcing you to go forward whether you want to or not.
Gee, I'm so glad I *own* what I *bought*, and people attempting to run unauthorized code on my machine are fined and/or arrested/jailed for hacking. Oh, wait ...
Yes, but try explaining that to a Sr. Manager or bean-counter. It may be 2016, but clients still don't like support people walking in and telling them "you're PC's busted... pay money." "Not busted, working fine." "Microsoft has done something stupid. Must spend money, fix PC before breaks." "Nonesense! My equipment is functioning just fine.. leave me alone." "No. PC broken. Watch." **reboots PC, Windows 10 begins to install all by itself, freezes on blue-screen after third restart** "See, PC broken. That'll be $700."
Microsoft may seem like a bunch of idiots to IT savvy people, but to business types it appears much more like an extortion racket.
Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
This. Like the Hitler thing, there will always be someone who flippantly posts "just don't use windows" with a misguided air of superiority.
So, in a futile attempt to put this to rest: if it were that easy, that's what people would do.
But it isn't, and Microsoft knows it, and that's why they're doing what they're doing.
If you don't rely on software that requires Windows, happy for you. If you got the spare time and the inclination, there's Linux or BSD; otherwise, Macs have become pretty damn bullet-proof turnkey solutions for getting the essentials taken care of and then some. Throw in a Playstation 4, and you've got games covered, too.
But for the rest of us, it's a huge shit sandwich, and we're all gotta have to take a bite.
Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
Welcome to Slashdot - where even facts are modded flamebait by frothing zombies just because the facts happen to favor of Microsoft!
Bizarre. I said nothing there in favor of Microsoft. I was just clarifying misinformation coming from journalists reporting that the "x" button was what caused the upgrades. Which might lead someone to interpret it as "I'll reboot my computer instead, that will fix it!", or "I'll be smart and kill it with task manager instead!"
That is why this is deceptive. Microsoft knows the customers are not expecting to have to actively opt-out and that most are likely to just close the box instead of reading it closely. They probably have some tech savvy friends saying "Windows will never upgrade itself unless you agree" (and I know some of them).
Look at the screenshot. There is a third choice. Windows 7 users may hot recognize it because it's in the new "Metro" UI style.
See: http://images.techhive.com/ima...
That word "here" in blue is a clickable link. Click on it and you can get somewhere to cancel the upgrade (not sure what it looks like there though).
Of course the Microsoft lawyers will interpret passive action as passive consent to the upgrade.
Oh ya, one more note, the new notification is not the same as the older ones that said "upgrade now" versus "start download and upgrade later" versus "X".
This is slightly tangential, but if you've 'upgraded' to Win 10 you can revert back to Win 7. I did this myself as I had issues with Win 10 breaking my router (as in it stopped working for all devices not just the PC) and I didn't know you could revert, but found some instructions online. If you've been hoodwinked into Win 10 and are not happy I suggest googling the steps to revert back to what you had before.
I wish I had a lawn.
I agree Windows 10 has a lot of features and improvements that are nice to have. It is the reason I upgraded myself to Windows 10, however I don't do an "upgrade" like most people have I always do OS Installs on a fresh format usually on a new hardrive with the old one still there as a backup.
After using windows 10 for months now however I must confess it also has features that I extremely dislike so I have both gained and lost. Windows update on windows 10 is no longer optional it is a mandatory process with a mandatory reboot. This along with a few other "features" has caused me some headache. I've managed to mitigate most of them. Its much more manageable now though since I figured out how to break part of the automatic reboot process since part of it is controlled by the task scheduler but it required changing ownership of several files and making them read only.
Given how much I paid for it, I expect it to "just work". When I press the "Later" button, I expect that the update gets postponed to some later time. I do not expect that it tries to start the OS update - I don't have sausage fingers. I also expect that a pulled update does not keep prompting me to update my device, and that I can find official word and updates on the home page of the manufacturer. Alas, I have to rely on 3rd party articles, referencing twitter updates from some guy.
In W7, I can right click a particular update and select hide. Up until recently that would effectively hide the update forever. The W10 update is just crap from a user perspective, no argument there.
The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
Hahaha!!! Really! When Windows 10 rapes your machine it auto uninstalls quite a few programs. Programs that Micro$haft doesn't want on your machine. When you try to rollback, these programs do not get reinstalled. In some cases such as Microsoft's own Media Center, once its been removed, its been removed forever.
Quit playing Monopoly with Bill.
Linux - of the people, by the people, and for the people.
it auto uninstalls quite a few programs
Because leaving stuff that is incompatible is a good idea?
When you try to rollback, these programs do not get reinstalled
Oh noes. I have to reinstall CPUZ myself. Meanwhile your ios device once rolled forward... never goes back. But we're busy hating on microsoft here so we'll give that a pass.
In some cases such as Microsoft's own Media Center, once its been removed, its been removed forever.
That's actually interesting. Cite?
I found several articles that discussed reinstalling Media Center after it was uninstalled; so that's possible. I didn't see anything specifically addressing the rollback from windows 10 scenario though... so as I said... Cite?
All I could find when i tried searchingwere articles on how to get it installed and running on Windows 10... which apparently is quite easy to do...if you wanted it... which is itself sort of a weird thing for someone called msoftsucks to want... i'd think if you were using windows at all, you'd be on kodi or something.
A Finnish lady marched into office of Microsoft with unwillingly updated computer and after threatening with a lawsuit got it back with Windows 7 the next day. Finnish Female marched into a Microsoft office Translated version
ALL governments that are FOR the people should enact, and act, on legislation to allow buyers: 1) FULL disclosure of a product and it's usage ramifications, and; 2) have abilities to OPT IN what ever 'features' / settings are deemed desired, and; 3) charge ANY company fees to allow any product to do ANY advertising whatsoever.
Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
Well that just goes to show you should research your purchases and ensure the devices you buy support standard protocols, instead of buying whatever is cheap at the time...
My printer for instance supports Postscript, which ensures it works by default with pretty much anything. And i have a networked scanner which sends jobs via email.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!