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Assange: Wikileaks Will Publish 'Enough Evidence' To Indict Hillary Clinton (rt.com)

An anonymous reader writes from a report via RT: Julian Assange says Wikileaks will have "a very big year" as it will publish enough new information about Hillary Clinton to indict her. In an ITV interview about the Democratic presidential candidate, Assange said, "We have emails relating to Hillary Clinton which are pending publication." As it stands, about 32,000 emails from Clinton's private server have been leaked by Wikileaks. Assange has yet to comment on how many new emails will be released or when they will be published. While he thinks there will be enough to indict Clinton, he doesn't think it will happen under Attorney General Loretta Lynch. He does think "the FBI can push for concessions from the new Clinton government in exchange for its lack of indictment." Specifically, Assange revealed the leaked emails show that she overrode the Pentagon's reluctance to overthrow sovereign Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi in 2011, and that "they predicted the post-war outcome would be what it is, which is ISIS taking over the country." Clinton's email controversy came to light in 2013 after a hacker named Guccifer breached her personal server.

742 comments

  1. Link to Location for Reading by SenatorPerry · · Score: 5, Informative

    Link to location for Publication

    Might want to use TOR or your favorite hiding software.

    1. Re:Link to Location for Reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is the publication actually available somewhere (apart from being able to search for random things over there) to mirror the information? A link would be appreciated. Thank you.

    2. Re:Link to Location for Reading by Gorshkov · · Score: 0

      Specifically, Assange revealed the leaked emails show that she overrode the Pentagon's reluctance to overthrow sovereign Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi in 2011, and that "they predicted the post-war outcome would be what it is, which is ISIS taking over the country."

      Maybe I'm wrong, but as far as I know, ISIS didn't really exist before 2003 - so how would the Pentagon have been worried about them pre-2011?

    3. Re:Link to Location for Reading by Gorshkov · · Score: 4, Funny

      Maybe I'm wrong, but as far as I know, ISIS didn't really exist before 2003 - so how would the Pentagon have been worried about them pre-2011?

      Apologies to all. I misread the dates - this is why I shouldn't post before morning coffee.

    4. Re:Link to Location for Reading by msauve · · Score: 2

      " ISIS didn't really exist before 2003 - so how would the Pentagon have been worried about them pre-2011?"

      Because 2003 is before 2011?

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    5. Re:Link to Location for Reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The prediction was that radical Islamists would take over, maybe Al-Qaeda, maybe another group.

    6. Re:Link to Location for Reading by aliquis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Groups of violent islamists surely existed regardless of brand.

    7. Re:Link to Location for Reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Specifically, Assange revealed the leaked emails show that she overrode the Pentagon's reluctance to overthrow sovereign Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi in 2011, and that "they predicted the post-war outcome would be what it is, which is ISIS taking over the country."

      Maybe I'm wrong, but as far as I know, ISIS didn't really exist before 2003 - so how would the Pentagon have been worried about them pre-2011?

      ISIS existed at the height of the Iraq insurgency.

      Note the date on the photo of a US soldier with a captured ISIS flag - 2008.

      So, who is "ISIS"?

      Al Qaeda in Iraq.

      Which is why Obama is running like crazy from dealing with them - they had to be '"the JV". Now there are thousands of US troops back there - but they're not in "combat".

      Why?

      Because they way they took over huge parts of Iraq and Syria to the point of carrying out large-scale terrorist attacks in the US and Europe along with requiring US troops being sent BACK to Iraq is pretty much what critics of Obama said would happen if Obama were to withdraw US forces from Iraq when he became President.

      And Obama CAN'T be that wrong.

      He just CAN'T

      So there's no "combat" troops from the US there.

      The attacks from ISIS aren't "terrorism".

      Obama can't utter "radical Islam".

      Because all of that are admissions he made a mistake.

    8. Re:Link to Location for Reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you truly want/need a secure TOR use 1.4.1, the one Ed Snowden used. The CIA have infiltrated tails.boum.org . 1.4.1 has been obviously removed because Ed foiled their secrecy in a huge way. You can still find a legit copy with matching SHA on kat.cr

      https://kat.cr/tails-1-4-1-i386-iso-multilang-tntvillage-t10922671.html
      http://lsuzvpko6w6hzpnn.onion/tails-1-4-1-i386-iso-multilang-tntvillage-t10922671.html

      It matches the original official 1.4.1 iso which I downloaded from the official repository when it was first distributed. Match it to the correct sha256 and .sig below.

      tails-i386-1.4.1.iso -- c7bf55250ca7a7ad897fd219af6ef3d4768be54fb3e2537abb3da8f7f4ed8913

      [Slashdot filter] Filter error: That's an awful long string of letters there.

      Couldn't paste entire PGP Signature. It ends with this:

      vbUns5imkAhLTozvRJHP
      =Lvxz
      -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    9. Re:Link to Location for Reading by kelemvor4 · · Score: 2

      " ISIS didn't really exist before 2003 - so how would the Pentagon have been worried about them pre-2011?" Because 2003 is before 2011?

      You've cracked the code! Beware of knocks on your front door today.

    10. Re:Link to Location for Reading by Tough+Love · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "they predicted the post-war outcome would be what it is, which is ISIS taking over the country."

      Maybe I'm wrong, but as far as I know, ISIS didn't really exist before 2003 - so how would the Pentagon have been worried about them pre-2011?

      Not only that, but ISIS is not taking over Libya. It currently only holds a small and shrinking portion of Sirte. Incidentally, the same place that Ghadaffi built his power base and made his last stand.

      The essential ingredient that makes it possible for the population to resist ISIS in Libya but not in Syria is the absence of a strongman willing to employ ISIS to save his own skin.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    11. Re:Link to Location for Reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Except that you are wrong. Obama didn't withdraw troops just because he felt like it. He withdrew them because he was required too by law since the agreement Bush entered us into had a hard end date.

      People seem to think we can just ignore the law when its not convenient.

    12. Re:Link to Location for Reading by r1348 · · Score: 2

      You mean Erdogan?

    13. Re: Link to Location for Reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realise that the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq in 2011 was the result of an agreement between Iraq and the US signed by Bush in 2008 ?

      The Obama regime did screw up, the book Blood Year by David Kilcullen explains why, it's effectively that Bush had finally gotten his engagement with Iraqi leadership basically right by his 7-8th years as President, and Obama did not continue it.

      That meant Al Maliki assumed his "Shia-ification" of the Iraqi army & police had tact it US approval , and with a winding back of US funding & leverage , he turned to Iran as a sponsor.

      Once the army & police became Shia run institutions where the leadership was entirely political puppet appointees, it lacked the resilience & competence to handle the threat of hostile conventional ground forces.

      Reliable , successful militaries are usually professional , meritocracies , rather than politicised .

      The most recent western intervention has really been about doing a few things in parallel:

      - destroy the captured heavy weapons (tanks, artillery etc)

      - kill identified ISIS leadership

      - re-train Iraqi Army leaders & units

      - support Iraqi ground combat with coalition airstrikes

      That's not an awful approach to take, but it's going to be slower than putting 4-6 US divisions back into Iraq - it's essentially the modern version of TE Lawrence's advice from thd Palestine campaign in world war 1: "Better they do it tolerably, than you do it for them perfectly".

    14. Re:Link to Location for Reading by HornWumpus · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Obama ignores laws he finds inconvenient _every day_.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    15. Re: Link to Location for Reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look how silly you look, trying to defend something you don't even know anything about. You took a contrary position to his, even though it was wrong. You're a silly billy.

    16. Re:Link to Location for Reading by aliquis · · Score: 1

      You mean Erdogan?

      I think he may be talking about the NSA.

    17. Re: Link to Location for Reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Such as? I'm genuinely interested to know, if you care to move beyond rhetoric into facts.

    18. Re: Link to Location for Reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right to a fair trial comes to mind.

    19. Re:Link to Location for Reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ISIS is Mossad. Their involvement has been established.

    20. Re: Link to Location for Reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and there is no such thing as changing dates by mutual agreement based upon conditions on the ground is there? Wow.

    21. Re: Link to Location for Reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about his war on whistleblowers? Snowden should have gotten a medal. But he's been exiled although he did nothing wrong.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whistleblower_Protection_Act

    22. Re: Link to Location for Reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh. I forgot drone strikes on foreign nationals. He's basically assassinating people every day.

    23. Re: Link to Location for Reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see nothing silly about it. One of the jihad groups would have filed the power vacuum regardless.

    24. Re: Link to Location for Reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exiled? He fled! He hasn't even faced trial by his peers to determine his innocence!

    25. Re: Link to Location for Reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Immigration laws. What's happening on the border is a complete chaos - all enabled from Washington.

    26. Re: Link to Location for Reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Point me to the US law that says the particular individuals you're talking about aren't allowed to be killed, please.
      Personally I'd say morally guilty, but unlikely to be legally guilty.

    27. Re: Link to Location for Reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hiLIARy does every time she is inconvienced by law. she has no regard for any laws.

    28. Re: Link to Location for Reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Julian Assange, release this info already, and stop editing it. You should have released this earlier so people can make more informed votes. WTF is wrong with your transparency agenda? #wikileaks

    29. Re: Link to Location for Reading by jess_wundring · · Score: 1

      Let's not forget all the gun running for Mexican cartels

    30. Re:Link to Location for Reading by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      Link to location for Publication

      Might want to use TOR or your favorite hiding software.

      No, Most of the emails that might be posted, should be available in their entirety. And if they could include phone calls that triggered the emails, that would be great too. Unfortunately we don't have email copies. Take wikileaks as a grain of salt.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    31. Re: Link to Location for Reading by baristabrian · · Score: 1

      So, then, Hussein Obama is "breaking the law" by sending combat troops over there? And, besides, since *when* did Hussein Obama start worrying about rule of law? Ha ha ha ha ha. Spewed my coffee.

      --
      -- "I'm not in a hurry; I'm in Hawaii." The Homeless Guy
    32. Re: Link to Location for Reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Research all of the executive orders he signed. Many of them are quite disturbing to say the least...

  2. Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What does evidence have to do with it? Whether she is indicted or not will be decided by the backroom deals she makes and what favors she'll give to people once she becomes president.

    Evidence and justice have nothing to do with it.

    1. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Hillay could murder at least a few people and still be allowed to run at this point.

      Rich people don't go to jail. Powerful people don't go to jail. She is both.

    2. Re:Evidence? by internerdj · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It does have the chance to alter the election odds, possibly enough to force the Democratic party to replace her at the convention.

    3. Re: Evidence? by Thud457 · · Score: 1
      Yeah but could Hillary

      "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters,"

      ?

      Hillay could murder at least a few people and still be allowed to run at this point.

      Oh you did not just go there, did you?!

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    4. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean people like Bernie Madoff and Martha Stewart?

    5. Re:Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Ah, an adult posting on Slashdot. What are you doing here?

    6. Re:Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sanders is now the next president. Because nobody wants a crook, and nobody wants an orange.

    7. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sick of it? Yet? You see, it wasn't illegal for her? Wanna know why? She could send email from anywhere, anything she sent was classified as secret. She could send someday plans, or an simple yes/no to a question. But, any government person, even betrayus, send her an email to the Hillery server, should have been canned and charged. They are the ones violating the law. They know that. Show the emails, let them fall. By the way, still waiting for Julian to open the Republican server. Or is that politics.

    8. Re:Evidence? by internerdj · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The regular population doesn't want a crook, but how are the parties and high-value donors supposed to control a politician who isn't a crook?

    9. Re:Evidence? by Salgak1 · · Score: 1

      Mind you, that chance is close to zero if she is not indicted. And, as noted, she could kill children on live TV, and still waltz to the nomination.

      Which is why I, increasingly, support the Sweet Meteor of Death for 2016.

      Just end it, already. . . .

    10. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How much did the Clinton campaign pay you to post that piece of shit? I've seen your same exact post in five different website forums and under three different new usernames.

    11. Re:Evidence? by spacepimp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The regular population doesn't realize she is a crook. To the unwashed masses anything about their candidate is propaganda by the competing party to make them look bad, it "isn't a thing".

      People want to be lied to.

    12. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trump is also rich and powerful...what's your point?

    13. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not paying taxes and/or stealing from a collective of rich and powerful...yes, that's the only way a rich and powerful person goes to jail. You have to piss off a collective of the .01% that is richer and more powerful than you.

    14. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clinton butt buddy David Brock pays people to astroturf for Hillary Clinton.

    15. Re:Evidence? by Yunzil · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Evidence has a lot to do with it, and as yet, nobody has any evidence that she did anything illegal. None.

    16. Re:Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The regular population doesn't realize she is a crook. To the unwashed masses anything about their candidate is propaganda by the competing party to make them look bad, it "isn't a thing".

      People want to be lied to.

      Exactly, the people who support her ignore anything bad about her in the news. Those people are a lost cause, it's the swing voters that one can only hope to influence.

    17. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      She stored classified information on a non-approved device. That is illegal. What her aides did was also illegal, and all of them should be prosecuted.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    18. Re:Evidence? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      He would need a bunch more votes to get a shot at being president. He didn't, so he won't be president.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    19. Re:Evidence? by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 4, Funny

      You paraphrased Trump and your nickname is Cro Magnon.

      This stuff writes itself.

    20. Re:Evidence? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Funny

      Stupid meteors... Coming to our planet and taking extinction level event causing jobs away from hard-working Earth-based calamities. Super Volcano would have the best eruptions. Fantastic. He's destroy the most people ever. He's getting tons of compliments for how much destruction he'd cause. He'll build a wall of smoke around the world and make us all pay for it... with our lives.

      This November, Vote Super Volcano 2016!

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    21. Re:Evidence? by tomhath · · Score: 1

      Most people realize she's a crook. But they had no choice, the Democratic Party anointed her without any input from the general population.

    22. Re: Evidence? by will_die · · Score: 1

      We know some of them have already gotten deals with prosecution so they will not face additional charges or possible jail time.

    23. Re:Evidence? by TheMadTopher · · Score: 4, Funny

      Maybe you're right in that this stuff writes itself. Your nickname is Dr. Evil and by bashing a Trump supporter you take a position that's pro Slitherly Clinton.

    24. Re:Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Care to explain why she's a crook? Can you do so without using outsourced right wing claptrap?

      Pardon me if I don't believe cranky old 6 digit UID libertarian wanks.

    25. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hilary has used her power to betray the American public multiple times . There is a pattern of corruption and bad judgement that will just get worse . Not a big trump supporter at all but if I had to choose between the two it is trump hands down .

    26. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The reason Hillary had the illegal server is so she can destroy her illegal deals and activities . Whether your are liberal or conservative , she will screw your over for her own best interest

    27. Re: Evidence? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      All you have to do is avoid the cardinal sin: NEVER EVER steal from the rich. They don't like that.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    28. Re:Evidence? by anyaristow · · Score: 1

      Everything's a rightwing claptrap when you're hearing what you don't want to hear. I've been accused of using rightwing propaganda for siting the State Department Inspector General report. You know, the rightwing Obama administration State Department for which she was Secretary of State? Damned rightwing claptrap.

    29. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No input? She won primaries / caucuses in 28 states and received almost 17 million votes.

      http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/democratic_vote_count.html

    30. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These are our best? We suck.

    31. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Including the stolen votes in NY and elsewhere.

    32. Re:Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The regular population doesn't realize she is a crook. To the unwashed masses anything about their candidate is propaganda by the competing party to make them look bad, it "isn't a thing".

      People want to be lied to.

      The Republicans earned that perspective. Obama was born in Kenya. Obama's a secret Muslim. Michelle is a man. On and on, back into at least Bill's administration. They've been crying wolf for decades, easily the full length of younger voters lives, nevermind however long they've been paying attention to politics. They need to show some personal responsibility and meditate on the story of the boy who cried wolf.

    33. Re:Evidence? by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      Yeah, no input at all. Aside from 16,000,000 democratic primary voters.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    34. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Best" has nothing whatsoever to do with the political process.

    35. Re:Evidence? by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      Yeah, no input at all. Aside from 16,000,000 democratic primary voters.

      Of which a significant amount voted not for her, but as a vote against Trump because they don't think Sanders could mount enough of a challenge. Whether that is right or wrong, that's the reality. But who cares about nuisance?

    36. Re: Evidence? by mongothesecond · · Score: 1

      I think this is a better cry for legal and prosecution reform. I agree there are laws that should always be prosecuted, but thats not the way this country works. From blue laws, to traffic laws, to tax laws, to immigration laws, no one wants all of them enforced. I submit we should agree on a subset, and take the rest off the books.

    37. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trump is essentially a used car salesman - he's selling an emotional reaction.

      That's very smart - it had utterly emasculated the GOP in the process.

      Just because he's manipulative and good at high pressure emotionally driven selling, does not make him a good candidate for president.

      At a policy level, a Trump Presidency would be a global scale disaster, and if we got through it without World War 3, and merely get a second Great Depression , we'd be lucky. Even a 1 term Trump presidency will likely take American 10-20 years to recover from.

      Hillary may be a political insider, and she may be a bent as any other politician, but her experience makes her one of the best qualified candidates for president ever, at least in recent history (Truman and Eisenhower were arguably stronger). Hillary is a player, but don't hate the player, hate the game.

    38. Re:Evidence? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      Right, and before the primaries it was a total question mark who the Democrats were going to nominate. Everyone just naturally assumed it was going to be Jim Webb, but then Hillary just came out of nowhere with hardly any support from the party!

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    39. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trump is a 69 year old child. Elect him at your own risk. Lose whatever influence you still have in the world. Between Trump and the Chinese dictator, I think I rather have the latter as the world leader.

    40. Re: Evidence? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      5 Aviators 03/93 Plane Crash

      Sweet Jesus, what are the odds that 5 aviators would die in a plane crash? Someone must answer for this!

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    41. Re:Evidence? by aquacrayfish · · Score: 1

      Of which a significant amount voted not for her, but as a vote against Trump because they don't think Sanders could mount enough of a challenge. Whether that is right or wrong, that's the reality. But who cares about nuisance?

      It's like my mom always said, nuance is a real nuisance.

    42. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      I agree to an extent. Laws that people are routinely not prosecuted under should probably go, but I don't think mandatory prosecution is a good idea either.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    43. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trump is essentially a used car salesman - he's selling an emotional reaction.

      And you think this is exclusive to Trump? This is electioneering 101. You don't attract votes from the plebs through rational discourse. Let me guess, this is your first election? Happy 18th birthday!

    44. Re: Evidence? by mongothesecond · · Score: 1

      I wasnt suggesting mandatory prosecution. I was saying that if we arent going to prosecute, the law should be removed from the "books".

    45. Re:Evidence? by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      You mad, bro?

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    46. Re:Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been accused of using rightwing propaganda for siting the State Department Inspector General report.

      Yeah? Where'd you put it? Okay, sorry, but JFC. If you want your references to be taken seriously as support for your thought processes, perhaps writing at a level above 7th grade might be worth considering.

      Correction: "siting" s/b "citing"

    47. Re: Evidence? by Lakitu · · Score: 1

      You should see how many associates of your grandparents are dead. What were they up to that was so dangerous?

    48. Re:Evidence? by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      Stupid meteors... Coming to our planet and taking extinction level event causing jobs away from hard-working Earth-based calamities. Super Volcano would have the best eruptions. Fantastic. He's destroy the most people ever. He's getting tons of compliments for how much destruction he'd cause. He'll build a wall of smoke around the world and make us all pay for it... with our lives.

      This November, Vote Super Volcano 2016!

      Hey, I'm just glad the job is staying in the Solar System. Rogue Brown Dwarf wants to rip Earth from its orbit and send the extinction level event causing jobs to another part of the universe. Meteors are downright middle-of-the-road, politically speaking.

    49. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and I agreed with that; if we aren't using the laws, why have them?

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    50. Re:Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't really know what crook means. I think they know she is corrupt. They simply don't care because everyone is corrupt. The system is openly corrupt.

    51. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So they voted for her, but not for her because you don't like her? I mean, did you really ask all these people yourself if that's the case? I don't like her either but seems like you've convinced yourself of some weird inside out logic there buddy. It's ok that you don't like her, it's also ok that your opinion may not be the majority; you're probably a white man of a middle/upper middle class background, 28-35, sorry to say but you ain't representative of the country. Just let that sink in for a moment. World doesn't resolve around you. Wanna hug?

    52. Re: Evidence? by skids · · Score: 1

      The problem with Trump is that's all he is. Well that and the sociopathy.

    53. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But emails! Some random guy totally claimed he had access to her server and others had been there before him, he had no proof but he's a trustworthy guy I could tell!! Guilty! Guilty! Guilty! Treason!!

    54. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bingo! But it's worse than that. Not only corrupt, but in ways that aren't exactly illegal, but to the average person are clearly not the intention of any laws that make it legal. Thems the breaks though, and to a large degree it's made for a mostly successful society.

    55. Re:Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This "Hillary", who is indeed a fake body double, is a woman. What does that mean? It means she is guaranteed to be a pussy. Why would you want to have pussy after pussy president of America? Because you can be made to do the will of the spy agencies at gunpoint.

      9/11 is their diabolical NWO plot and they wished it would continue now. George Bush Sr. and a network of 1000's of people schemed the whole thing.

      Now yell conspiracy like a faggot would. Cooperating in no small way are the Jewish/Israeli media complex. Ties between equities markets, banking, and spyware corporations like Microsoft and Apple abound.

      And Google tracks it all with Eric Schmidt the "new Pentagon employee" see Slashdot story itself. Facebook has a lot of data and they also share it at gunpoint or even threat of gunpoint at their families.

      CIA, Israel, MI6, and American media have been fucking everything up since 9/11 and prior. American money is a joke right now.

    56. Re:Evidence? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The regular population has been repeatedly told she is a crook, by people who lie like there was no tomorrow. Benghazi? There's still people who think she did something seriously wrong, despite the complete failure of the congressional witch-hunt.

      One result is that I don't believe anything the Republicans say about her without good evidence. So far, I haven't seen good evidence of serious impropriety concerning her emails. I've read a lot of accusations, and don't believe them. Personally, I don't care if the little boy who cried wolf does get eaten anymore.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    57. Re:Evidence? by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      Voting for her because they think she stands the best chances of winning in the general election is voting for her. If you're voting for candidates in the primary who you expect can't be successful in the general election then you're doing it wrong.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    58. Re:Evidence? by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      Every campaign starts off with a candidates favored by party leadership, that should be obvious since the party is led by people with an interest in politics. Sometimes that candidate wins the primary (Clinton, 2016), and sometimes they don't (Clinton, 2008). That's called the general population giving their input.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    59. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tiny tiny hands down.

    60. Re:Evidence? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      When GP said "anointed her without any input", that happened before the primaries started.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    61. Re:Evidence? by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      And the GP is wrong. She wasn't anointed before the primaries started this year any more than she was the last time when she lost to Obama.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    62. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol you should have told that to the right 5 months ago.

    63. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally, I see Trump as one of the best opportunities in a long while to reign in the power of the presidency a bit. There's a good chance both parties would move to block him. Risky, but it could a risk worth taking to reverse the slow creep of power for a while.

    64. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It'll take the rest of our lifetimes to recover from GW Bush and Obama. If Hillary is elected she will be far worse than either of the other two losers. I'll take one Trump term over anyone else.

    65. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you should protest by shooting yourself in the foot. Both are dumb, but at least in the latter case you are only risking your own life.

    66. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So no anti-torture law?

    67. Re:Evidence? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Well be careful - an indictment would be handed down by the Department of Justice. You could be right - that could be dealt with via political hackery, nepotism, etc.

      However, once she's taken the Oath of Office, this kind of thing moves from DoJ to the US House of Representatives in a little process we call Articles of Impeachment, and a trial in the US Senate.

      Good luck bottling that up if the information is out there in the sunlight.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    68. Re: Evidence? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      If those deals lead to stronger cases against those that refuse to admit wrongdoing, I'm okay with that. Drag every single actor in this thing into the light, and let their punishment be known.

      You already know that part of the 'deal' they are taking to be a cooperator involves a clause that they will never again have a security clearance, so they will be unable to damage the country in this way again.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    69. Re:Evidence? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      You could have just left it at "nobody wants a crook."

      The only difference between the candidates here is that one is already in civil court for fraud charges, and the other is waiting on criminal felony indictment resulting from a federal probe.

      What a fantastic shit sandwich of an election we're having.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    70. Re:Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's almost like they've been.... radicalized

    71. Re: Evidence? by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      I'd argue that torture is already prohibited by general bodily integrity rights, so no, we don't need them specifically.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    72. Re:Evidence? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      Many people, after watching the actions of Debbie Wasserman Shultz and the DNC in organizing the primaries and debates, would disagree with you. The contest was set up to provide as little resistance as possible to Hillary, and only when Sanders started to call the DNC on that did things start to change. Shultz is the current DNC chair, and she was the Clinton campaign co-chair in 2008, are you really trying to suggest that she was perfectly neutral in this entire process, and did not have her thumb on the scale for Clinton? If you want to claim that the DNC was unbiased in running the primaries, then you need to address issues like these (that list was written 6 months ago, by the way, it doesn't even include Nevada or other recent events).

      Surely you're not trying to argue that the DNC did not formally and officially nominate Hillary before the primaries. If that's what you're arguing for, that's not the same argument that I'm having.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    73. Re:Evidence? by peragrin · · Score: 1

      Hillary is the single most vetted candidate ever. Republicans have been offering millions of dollars to anyone who can convict her. Republicans have spent over 500 million dollars so far in investigating her.

      Does anyone really think Hillary can hide illegal things so well that she can hide from that kind of search? Oh sure she isn't a nice person, but she can't do anything illegal. immoral maybe, greedy definitely, but not illegal.

      wikileaks is well known for lying in sensational journalism . They have done it dozens of times, editing videos, editing documents to only show what they want, and the real videos and documents show a completely different story. It is why Snowden didn't go to wikileaks to reveal the truth, as wikileaks is assanges pet tabloid paper.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    74. Re: Evidence? by Budgreen · · Score: 1

      Why are the FOIA lawsuits still going then?

      --
      The greatest right given is the right to be wrong...
    75. Re:Evidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      for siting the State Department Inspector General report

      not "siting" -- citing.

  3. Sources of Support by j · · Score: 0, Troll

    It's a little disconcerting about how eager both Trump and Sanders followers are to have a combative foreign power interfere with US politics at the highest levels though literal KGP espionage, as long as it might make Hillary look bad. This is worse than the GOP sending letters trying to stop the Iran nuclear deal. I think we have to go back to the Tory Loyalists to find this scale of anti-American glee.

    1. Re:Sources of Support by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's even crazier is what he suggests will happen. He wants to give the FBI leverage over what is probably the next president, and he thinks that's a GOOD thing? Just what does he think they're going to do with that? In what world does he think they're not going to use that to make damn sure she doesn't do anything to rein in their abuses?

      Hey, while we're at it, why not give the CIA information they can blackmail her on, too, so they can force her to authorize torture again. Give it to the NSA, too, so they can make her mandate sticking espionage chips in every orifice for everyone at birth.

    2. Re:Sources of Support by LichtSpektren · · Score: 2

      I'm no GOP supporter, but what exactly was wrong with them "sending letters trying to stop the Iran nuclear deal"? They were merely trying to reclaim a power that the Constitution gives to the Legislative branch but was snatched by the Executive branch.

    3. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Things aren't that black and white anymore. Our government has been usurped, and as such been infiltrated at the highest levels by people who wish to see America and all of Western Civilization as we know it taken down to the ground. This includes many high-level Democrats and Republicans. A majority of Trump and Sanders supporters see their candidate's success as the only way to have even a long shot at an outsider restoring the Republic back to some semblance of normalcy, of true justice and being a nation of laws. It's not anti-American glee when the system you're rooting against has become obviously and vehemently anti-American.

      But it's OK, keep rooting for the occupied establishment if that's the side of history you want to be on. At this point the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Something has to be done to stop the spread of ISIS and other terrorist groups from advancing further on Western Civilization, with which they are wholly incompatible. That won't be happening with any establishment candidate, as they are they ones encouraging more of the same. If you want about 10 more Orlandos, each bigger than the last, keep trying to spread your propaganda that being against Clinton is being for the KGB. I hope you can sleep at night afterwards.

    4. Re:Sources of Support by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing that he wants to pressure the Democrats into picking a different candidate by announcing a different candidate, although it's difficult to imagine how they'd do that without looking stupid after Obama called her the 'most qualified candidate ever'. He perhaps hopes that the Democratic Party will tell her that if she does stand and win, then they'll vote along with the Republicans for impeachment as soon as she's elected and force her to hand over the Presidency to whoever she picks as her running mate.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    5. Re: Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The FBI already have the leverage. This is more about the rest of us knowing about said leverage as it is being applied.

    6. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And Hillary is not backed by offshore interests?

    7. Re:Sources of Support by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He wants to give the FBI leverage over what is probably the next president, and he thinks that's a GOOD thing?

      Actually, I think he's saying that the FBI already has leverage if Hillary is the next President. It's not like the FBI doesn't already have the information he's threatening to release to the public (where do you think the leaks came from?). What he's threatening is to show the public that the FBI has (and, presumably is using) some leverage they have over the Pres.

      Mind you, he's wrong about that. If Hillary is elected, she can pardon herself quite legally, and there is ZERO chance of the Senate impeaching her. Hell, the Senate wouldn't impeach her if she visited the Senate to make a speech carrying Bill's severed head....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    8. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He wants to give the FBI leverage over what is probably the next president, and he thinks that's a GOOD thing?

      Actually, I think he's saying that the FBI already has leverage if Hillary is the next President. It's not like the FBI doesn't already have the information he's threatening to release to the public (where do you think the leaks came from?). What he's threatening is to show the public that the FBI has (and, presumably is using) some leverage they have over the Pres.

      Mind you, he's wrong about that. If Hillary is elected, she can pardon herself quite legally, and there is ZERO chance of the Senate impeaching her. Hell, the Senate wouldn't impeach her if she visited the Senate to make a speech carrying Bill's severed head....

      Which one?

    9. Re:Sources of Support by spacepimp · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It isn't so much as wanting interference of a foreign body, it is about wanting the corruption to come to light. If Hillary hasn't done anything wrong, then she shouldn't have anything to fear and hide. Would you be less bothered if this was occurring to Trump perhaps? Personally if it happens to Obama, Trump or any politician, who has been behaving less than morally and arguably in direct violation of the Constitution it would be good for the country. The sooner people see that criminals in highest levels of the political spectrum are held unaccountable the better. People need to understand a criminal in your party of preference is no better than a criminal in the party you oppose. Let them be held accountable as the criminals they have become.

    10. Re:Sources of Support by Forgefather · · Score: 5, Informative

      Negotiating treaties is the sole purview of the executive branch. The constitution gives the Senate the right to RATIFY a treaty with a 2/3rds vote but not the power to negotiate them.

      --
      "There are lies, there are damn lies, and there are statistics"
    11. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's a little disconcerting about how eager both Trump and Sanders followers are to have a combative foreign power interfere with US politics

      Showing glee at the downfall of that corrupt, lying, incompetent woman doesn't make one a Trump or Sanders supporter.

    12. Re: Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously the one with the most blood circulating through it.

    13. Re: Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, they didn't just send letters to Iran, there were government officials working against the peaceful resolution of the conflict. The captives had to wait in jails from July, till January, when Regan could sell arms to the contrast in central America, to get money to buy the captives from iran. That was the faux Ollie, a col in the army, who played against the president. With the support of higher military officials. Really, I believe that is called treason, but.

    14. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you may want to re-read the constitution: the power to make treaties is actually given to the EXECUTIVE Branch.

    15. Re:Sources of Support by Salgak1 · · Score: 1

      You meant "Literal KGB espionage".

      One: Everyone and his brother have apparently hacked the clintonemail.com server, and,

      Two: The KGB hasn't existed for 21 years. It's been the FSB since 1995. . .

    16. Re:Sources of Support by j · · Score: 1

      Did you miss the part where Russian intelligence intercepted the emails to be released? Yes I know it's called the FSB now but indications are that many of the same personnel and methods are still in play.

      You're a True Believer if you think "revealing corruption" is the only criteria they'll use in selecting what to publish.

    17. Re:Sources of Support by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      I think you're confusing Assange with Snowden.

    18. Re:Sources of Support by DoctorFrog · · Score: 1

      It certainly would have helped if he'd published it a couple of months ago.

    19. Re:Sources of Support by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      Who's to say the three letter agencies don't already have such information? And for that matter, similar leverage over all the other potential candidates?

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    20. Re:Sources of Support by mpercy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      True, the power to negotiate treaties belongs to the Executive and the power to ratify a treaty belongs to the Senate.

      Of course, the Senate is free to proclaim its intention to not ratify a treaty based on the information at hand. Plus, there's the whole notion that Obama knew damn well that the Senate would not ratify any such "treaty". So he just proclaimed that he was not negotiating a treaty, but instead working on a "non-binding agreement with some plans for enforcement" in a shallow attempt to bypass the ratification power of the Senate. It would seem to me that if he says he was not negotiating a treaty, then claiming the power to negotiate a treaty is moot.

      As CNN put it at the time:

      http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/12/...

      If it looks like a treaty, walks like a treaty and talks like a treaty, is it a treaty?

      According to the White House, only if the President of the United States says it is.
      That's infuriating Republicans and even some Democrats, who are demanding that the Obama administration submit any final nuclear deal with Iran to Congress for approval.

      "This is clearly a treaty," Arizona Sen. John McCain told reporters Tuesday. "They can call it a banana, but it's a treaty."

      The GOP position could jeopardize the long-term survival of any Iran deal, and it represents the party's newest clash with President Barack Obama over the limits of executive authority, as Republicans object to a pact they warn could eventually give Tehran a nuclear bomb.
      It's that skepticism that has largely led the White House to define the deal as a "nonbinding agreement" rather than a "treaty," which the Constitution requires Senate "advice and consent" on.

      The distinction -- and whether it can legitimately be used to shut out Congress -- turns on complicated and unresolved questions of constitutional law. While Republicans call foul, the administration defends the differentiation as perfectly sound, and no surprise.
      Secretary of State John Kerry stressed Wednesday that the administration never intended to negotiate a treaty.

      "We've been clear from the beginning. We're not negotiating a 'legally binding plan.' We're negotiating a plan that will have in it a capacity for enforcement," he said at a Senate hearing.

      That doesn't sit well with Republicans, many of whom believe the Senate's constitutional role is being bypassed.

      Idaho Sen. James Risch dismissed the administration's argument: "Let there be no mistake, this is a treaty that is being negotiated. It's a treaty and should be treated as such."

    21. Re:Sources of Support by c · · Score: 1

      What's even crazier is what he suggests will happen. He wants to give the FBI leverage over what is probably the next president, and he thinks that's a GOOD thing?

      What makes you think he wants to do something good, at least where the US presidency is concerned? After a few years confined to a room in an embassy I can't say I wouldn't be doing stuff just to watch the world burn.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    22. Re:Sources of Support by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2

      Maybe he was talking about Belarus or Transnistria - KGB still exists there. Besides, FSB would be the wrong intelligence agency in this case - they are responsible for internal security, so they are more like the FBI. SVR RF is the foreign intelligence counterpart. The mistake is pretty common because KGB used to be responsible for both federal crime investigation and also for foreign intelligence.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    23. Re:Sources of Support by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 2

      Perhaps that's what he means, but that didn't appear to be what he said. Furthermore, if he really wanted to release information to weaken her as a candidate, the window for doing that in any sort of constructive manner (i.e., in time to help someone else such as Sanders win the primary) has closed. Does he think Donald "I want to make it easier to go after the press for publishing things I don't like" Trump is going to be better?

      Maybe he thinks that the only way to make things better is by making them absolutely terrible first in order to get people to be less complacent? If so, that's utterly idiotic and counterproductive. Things can get much, much worse.

    24. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      If he actually has evidence, publishing it is the farthest thing from anti-American. Americans should know as much as possible about their presidential candidates; making proof of wrongdoing publicly available is, IMO, patriotic.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    25. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm no GOP supporter, but what exactly was wrong with them "sending letters trying to stop the Iran nuclear deal"? They were merely trying to reclaim a power that the Constitution gives to the Legislative branch but was snatched by the Executive branch.

      They didn't send the letter to the President, or the American people. They sent the letters to the government of Iran. That's what was wrong.

      Even content aside, it was a severe black mark on their own conduct, as it showed that they were so dedicated to attacking the deal, which they had already passed the ball on, that they communicated with a foreign power to try to do it.

      Of course, their real intent was to give themselves political cover, so they could say "Look at us, we're fighting that Obama" which is even worse. As bad as the numerous PPACA repeals. It's just wasting time.

    26. Re: Sources of Support by WindBourne · · Score: 0

      U need to read the constitution. Iran deal was Obama's to make and Senate to approve/disprove.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    27. Re: Sources of Support by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      I have to wonder why now? Why not earlier?

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    28. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I think he's saying that the FBI already has leverage if Hillary is the next President. It's not like the FBI doesn't already have the information he's threatening to release to the public (where do you think the leaks came from?). What he's threatening is to show the public that the FBI has (and, presumably is using) some leverage they have over the Pres.

      To take that argument one step further: What he's really saying is that *he* has leverage over the FBI: "Nice bit of leverage you have over the next President, Director Comey. Be a shame if something were to happen to it."

    29. Re: Sources of Support by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Two points. Hillary is corrupt and needs to be stopped. And the Iran deal is awful. Everything that could have been done, should have been done to stop it. People need to stop pretending that this president is gifted in the foreign policy department.

    30. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a little disconcerting about how eager both Trump and Sanders followers are to have a combative foreign power interfere with US politics

      Showing glee at the downfall of that corrupt, lying, incompetent woman doesn't make one a Trump or Sanders supporter.

      She's not incompetent :)

    31. Re: Sources of Support by Bartles · · Score: 0

      The deal is horseshit. It affects everybody. They were right to send letters to try to stop it.

    32. Re: Sources of Support by Bartles · · Score: 2

      Ok, when did the deal get submitted to the Senate for ratification?

    33. Re:Sources of Support by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You are a melodramatic fantasist.

      The problem is, everything IS as dire as you portray - but it's not a Manichean fairytale of "high level conspirators against 'Western Civilization"."

      This IS the natural fruit of your so-called "civilization". A cursory understanding of history of the "Western" world - from Phoenicia and Greece through Rome, all the Renaissance and "enlightenment" to today - all of it is hardly different from what is portrayed on "Game of Thrones". I can say that without hyperbole.

      The idea of "Western Civilization" is just another chauvinism - another mythology by which you are crudely manipulated as a tool of those same forces you imagine to be in "betrayal".

      No man in earth understands ANYTHING, until he has insightful awareness that EVERYTHING he knows is WRONG.

      Then his eyes may see clearly. He has no solution, but surely understands the nature of things.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    34. Re: Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "extremely racist GOP." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    35. Re:Sources of Support by Flea+of+Pain · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree 100% AC. My question to the American "patriots" is what happens when the ideal America you are patriotic about, is not the America you live in? When do you recognize that the name itself does not warrant patriotism, but rather the ideals for which it actively works?

      Notice I didn't say the ideals it claims to stand for, because saying you are for freedom and democracy is very different from actually allowing people to be free and have a functioning system of democracy. It seems to me (as a non-American) that America has been slipping further and further away from what the patriots claim America represents.

      You don't live in the post-war 50's with an American dream available to all. You live in a country where the dictators all follow their name with a trademark symbol, and aren't breaking laws because they get to buy them from your "democratically elected" government. I use quotations because it seems odd to have a system where you are stuck with 1 of 2 possiblities, both of whom seem to be picked by the parties themselves more than voting, based on super-PAC funding and donations from the corporations.

      So again I ask: What are you patriotic towards, the America of today, or the ideal of America?

      --
      Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
    36. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Things aren't that black and white anymore. Our government has been usurped, and as such been infiltrated at the highest levels by people who wish to see America and all of Western Civilization as we know it taken down to the ground.

      No, our government has simply been taken over by greedy and corrupt people with few actual skills who see government as a way of becoming rich and powerful. Hillary would be a third rate lawyer or real estate agent somewhere if she hadn't married Bill and gotten a bunch of cushy government jobs.

    37. Re:Sources of Support by JackieBrown · · Score: 2

      although it's difficult to imagine how they'd do that without looking stupid after Obama called her the 'most qualified candidate ever'.

      With all the other stupid stuff he has said (57 states, ISIS is like a JV team, etc), people have got to be used to it or just not care.

    38. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      An agreement has to be a treaty if the agreement includes actions or stipulations that would require the the president to make use powers that are either not granted by the constitution as executive powers, or have not previously been granted by congress to the executive. An agreement DOES NOT have to be a treaty if the only actions or stipulations in the agreement involve powers that are part of the executive. That's how it's always been. For example, if congress has granted the president the power to freeze and unfreeze the bank accounts of some country, and congress put no pertinent limitations upon this grant of power, then the president is free to exercise that power as he sees fit, including as part of an act of diplomacy with said country.

    39. Re:Sources of Support by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Considering that Snowden revealed that the Good 'ol Boys at the NSA were using Government resources to check up on their Girl Friends, I'm sure there isn't much that they don't have on the Clintons; especially since the KGB and Wikileaks have it. The NSA has a computer security mission, I'm sure more than a few "unannounced security audits" on Clinton's Email server, and anything classified or potentially blackmail material was retrieved for further threat analysis.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    40. Re:Sources of Support by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      This. Assange is making some terrible decisions here (shocking, I know). Worst-case scenario, he could end up putting Trump in the White House.

      The Democrats should have a backup plan in case Hillary's baggage finally achieves critical mass.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    41. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She's incompetent at her actual jobs: lawyer, secretary of state, etc.

      She is, of course, relatively competent at lying and defrauding people. I say "relatively" because the bar is pretty low; most people with actual skills and talents do not see the miserable jobs she has held as particularly desirable (nor would they sleep with Bill in order to get them).

    42. Re:Sources of Support by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      First, that's not a real quote. It's one of many that people paraphrase or flat out make up. Which is strange because he says enough controversial stuff you would think people with have to make up stuff.

      It's amazing the lengths that the press is going after Trump by flat out lying or at least playing word games.

      This is one of my favorites 'You were born in a Taco Bell': Trump's rhetoric fuels school bullies across US If you read the article, you will see a few paragraphs in that Trump never used that phrase; it was one of the kids there.

      And Obama is pretty restricting on the press. You don't hear about it as often because they put up with it since they support his policies.

      https://cpj.org/reports/2013/1...
      https://www.washingtonpost.com...

    43. Re: Sources of Support by Jawnn · · Score: 1

      The FBI already have the leverage.

      Yeah... [citation needed].

    44. Re: Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not too late for Sanders, not in the land of opportunities.

      He can run as an independent candidate while Hillary's busy in court.

    45. Re:Sources of Support by rch7 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Mr. Putin prefers Trump to be the next president, as it may fragment NATO and other US alliances. This is his ultimate and most desirable goal, it will make him strongest bully in his yard.

      He certainly has plenty of influence in the circles of people like Assange and can subtly manipulate them pushing to the right direction without them having a clue that they are manipulated and used.

    46. Re:Sources of Support by 4pins · · Score: 2

      It certainly would have helped if he'd published it a couple of months ago.

      Yes, that would have helped Bernie Sanders, who would be a different candidate. I am guessing, that is not who they wanted to see picked. Even now the Democrats are headed to a technically open/contested convention. If Bernie would drop out (before) the convention, then we might see this kind of release of evidence to, "save the party." Without that concession, you run the risk of all the super delegates switching to Bernie and handing him the nomination. In most things timing is very important, politics is one of those things.

      --
      I will not mourn that which I never had to lose. - Unknown
    47. Re: Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Two time alleged rapist, dodging adjudication, 'cause the big bad Swedes want to carry water for the Gringos, says J. Assange---ahem! the U.K. could've done that too if that bullshit conspiracy theory was the plan. ---Just another Good Time Gris

    48. Re: Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just recently got the "57 states" thing: including DC, PR, Americans abroad, and overseas territories like Northern Marianas and the US Virgin Islands, there are 57 presidential primaries.

    49. Re: Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Assange can suck dick, as far as I'm concerned, but Truth is Truth, and we're best served by it. --JAGG

    50. Re: Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If he's that powerful then maybe he should be the next president.

      I'm sure he'd be able to run both Russia and the US just fine, considering his high popularity in both countries.

    51. Re:Sources of Support by Kierthos · · Score: 1

      Yeah, where's Tailgunner Joe when we need him? Oh wait, he's dead, and he was pretty much a clinical study of paranoia, seeing Communists behind everything.

      Let's go back to those days, I'm sure nothing could possibly go wrong that didn't already go wrong.

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    52. Re:Sources of Support by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Did you miss the part where Russian intelligence intercepted the emails to be released?

      Yes, I think I did -- mostly because you appear to have invented it out of thin air. TFA doesn't even have the word "Russia" (or "FSB," or even "KGB") in it at all.

      Besides, if Russian intelligence did intercept emails then that's just even more reason to indict Hillary! Her choice to use her own server makes it her fault if she got hacked.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    53. Re: Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They were waiting for the right moment, and it never came.

    54. Re:Sources of Support by starX · · Score: 1

      Oh! I saw that movie! It was pretty cool the way Captain America took down Gary Shandling and Hydra.

    55. Re:Sources of Support by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      all of it is hardly different from what is portrayed on "Game of Thrones".

      It's really hardly different from "The Godfather". There is a level of gangsterism that permeates.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    56. Re:Sources of Support by phorm · · Score: 1

      "He wants to give the FBI leverage over what is probably the next president, and he thinks that's a GOOD thing?"

      Oh he just doesn't want a criminal who has been known to circumvent laws, checks, and balances for her own convenience/gain.

    57. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, if you think about, it was the decent thing to do FOR IRAN. If the President is telling Iran he's delivering more than he can really promise (an enduring treaty vs. an impermanent not-a-treaty) then Congress giving Iran the forewarning that they intend to undo this agreement in the future is a kind thing to do.

    58. Re: Sources of Support by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      That is puzzling; maybe he was hoping he wouldn't have to intervene?

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    59. Re:Sources of Support by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      It certainly would have helped if he'd published it a couple of months ago.

      My thoughts exactly. To me, Assange is an asshole. If he has the goods, and if he really cares about truth, he should deliver them now without so much fanfare. Otherwise, he ought to STFU.

    60. Re:Sources of Support by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      Fortunately for Assange, even Trump isn't crazy enough to declare war on Ecuador.

    61. Re:Sources of Support by Forgefather · · Score: 1

      My response to the parent was intended to point out that members of congress sending letters to foreign leadership is most certainly illegal because congress does not have the authority to negotiate with foreign leaders. It wasn't intended to be a comment on the intellectual dishonesty of the Obama administration.

      --
      "There are lies, there are damn lies, and there are statistics"
    62. Re: Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      and yet, the vast majority of the GOP that fights against Obama, has no reason to do so. There are plenty of times in which they fight against him, even though, they back the idea. Why fight him? Purely because the GOP is composed of old racists who would rather destroy America, than allow a black to make policy.
      And you obviously join that problem of so many racists in your party.

    63. Re:Sources of Support by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      The Democrats should have a backup plan...

      They do... Biden. Nice and neutral

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    64. Re: Sources of Support by WindBourne · · Score: 3, Interesting

      O pulled the same shit as the GOP does. Basically, he declared that it was not a treaty and set it up to by pass them. The exact same way that the GOP keeps one of their lackies sitting in 'CONgress', to keep it in session.
      Personally, I think that both major parties are a bunch of losers, but esp the GOP for starting this BS.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    65. Re: Sources of Support by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      How is the Iran deal awful?

    66. Re: Sources of Support by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      depends on what you are up to. If you support Russia, North Korea, China, Iran, etc and support their choice, which is Trump, then they just did this at the right time. Sanders will likely run as 3rd party due to this and that will give trump a chance that he never had.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    67. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry, you just forgot to take your pills, though I wonder how you could get internet access in an asylum.

    68. Re:Sources of Support by dmgxmichael · · Score: 1

      Mind you, he's wrong about that. If Hillary is elected, she can pardon herself quite legally, and there is ZERO chance of the Senate impeaching her.

      The Senate doesn't impeach anyone. The House does. The Senate holds a trial to determine if the impeachment has merit and if it does it removes the offender from office.

    69. Re: Sources of Support by Bartles · · Score: 1

      When did the GOP do this?

    70. Re:Sources of Support by swillden · · Score: 1

      The Senate basically never ratifies treaties per the Constitutional process. That isn't to say that the US doesn't make legal, Constitutionally-valid, treaties, just that we rarely use that process.

      There are a few different kinds of international agreements/treaties we make:

      1. Sole executive agreements. These are international agreements that the president makes on his/her own, without the involvement of Congress. They're perfectly legal as long as they only commit the US to things that are wholly within the authority of the president. A common example is "Status of Forces Agreements" (SOFA) which are agreements with host governments related to how the US military operates within their countries. Because the president is Commander in Chief, telling the military how to operate is entirely within his/her authority.

      2. Congressional-executive agreements. These are agreements which the executive negotiates, committing the US to do various things which are beyond the scope of executive power, but they don't directly commit the country. Instead, they promise that Congress will enact laws that implement the terms of the treaty. They don't have any force until Congress does pass the relevant legislation by the normal majority of both houses plus the signature of the president, and thereafter are implemented as ordinary federal law.

      3. Actual treaties. These are negotiated by the executive and ratified by two thirds of Senate, per the Treaty Clause of the US Constitution.

      In practice, any agreement that can be implemented as a sole-executive agreement, is. Any agreement that goes beyond the authority of the executive is a congressional-executive agreement. In very rare cases the president might opt to go for an actual treaty, mostly if the House looks like it might not approve but 2/3 of the Senate will (which obviously isn't very common).

      And, of course, the executive is also free to make whatever non-binding agreements it likes. The other parties to the agreement must understand, however, that non-binding agreements are exactly that -- non-binding.

      The Republicans who are griping understand all of this, they're just using it to make political hay over an agreement they dislike (I'm not too sure about it myself, actually). Which is fine, though the disingenuousness is obnoxious.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    71. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least Obama never asks "is our children learning" or tries to put food on his family.

      FOOL ME CAN'T GET FOOLED AGAIN

    72. Re:Sources of Support by quantaman · · Score: 1

      Lots of agreements don't get assented by the senate. And don't pretend the GOP is in the clear on this, why do you think they passed the "Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act of 2015"? It basically gave the congress the right to review the agreement, vote on approval, and then have that disapproval vetoed by Obama.

      My understanding is they never really cared to stop Obama from signing the agreement, they just wanted the maximum opportunity to demagogue against dealing with Iran.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    73. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Assange wants to do anything he can to damage the United States. Once you realize that, his behavior makes more sense.

      He doesn't want to make the USA better, he wants to damage their reputation internationally and promote the dominance of Russia and China.

    74. Re:Sources of Support by fnj · · Score: 1

      Our UID 137's comment started out really well, with some provocative and fascinating points to ponder. Too bad it goes off the rails with the deranged overkill of western civilization and bogging down in an acid trip claiming "nobody understands anything".

    75. Re:Sources of Support by Dread_ed · · Score: 1

      Your logic is completely backwards. The FBI already has all of the information and, ostensibly all of the leverage. Both parties need to keep that information secret from the American people. The FBI to maintain the threat, and Clinton to avoid the repercussions. Therefore, if damning evidence exists, and if the public is kept in the dark about said damning information, then and only then will the FBI be able to use it as leverage.

      If the information is released to the public there is no leverage, period. This is yet another reason leaks of information to the public are a good thing. It keeps people accountable to public scrutiny and the justice system, instead of having that accountability subverted by some group or person who holds the information as blackmail fodder.

      --
      When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
    76. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's what he was doing BEFORE he fled that rape investigation.

    77. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have, before the convention then Bernie could get it with unhappy super delegates. After, they'll put Joe Biden in her place.

      I still wont be surprised if Bernie still gets the nomination at the convention even if they are not released.

    78. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm no GOP supporter, but what exactly was wrong with them "sending letters trying to stop the Iran nuclear deal"? They were merely trying to reclaim a power that the Constitution gives to the Legislative branch but was snatched by the Executive branch.

      Except that it's a violation of the Logan act at best & Treason at worst.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason

      Oran's Dictionary of the Law (1983) defines treason as "...[a]...citizen's actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation]."

      Undermining executives discussions on the Iran nuclear deal could be considered causing serious injury to the USA.

    79. Re: Sources of Support by HornWumpus · · Score: 0

      He's not electable. Even against Trump. We aren't about to elect a red.

      Yes he is a red. Don't look at how he labels himself. Look at who he hung with for his entire life.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    80. Re:Sources of Support by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Supporting this _is_ causing serious injury to the USA.

      Back at you.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    81. Re:Sources of Support by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      The Russians surely have all her emails. But why would they release them? They would much rather continue to own her.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    82. Re:Sources of Support by dfenstrate · · Score: 1

      The idea of "Western Civilization" is just another chauvinism - another mythology by which you are crudely manipulated as a tool of those same forces you imagine to be in "betrayal".

      No man in earth understands ANYTHING, until he has insightful awareness that EVERYTHING he knows is WRONG.

      Then his eyes may see clearly. He has no solution, but surely understands the nature of things.

      You come across as a propagandist who bought a low UID and is trying hard to sound sage. That would make you an employee of the destructive elites that GP was talking about.

      On the off-chance you're spouting vague Eastern-sounding philosophy in all seriousness, you would never give up many of the fruits of western civilization, even if you're slumming it somewhere to try to build your 'cred.' Perhaps you ought to consider western civ might be worth preserving.

      Beyond that, the "No one really knows anything" philosophy has been very well developed by a couple of defenders of western civilization- Hayek and Sowell. Trade-offs still have to be weighed and decisions made. You seem like you'd rather shrug your shoulders and go rake a zen sand box garden, opening the door for the destructive elites GP spoke of.

      --
      Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
    83. Re: Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually, the Democrats started the tradition of not going out of session when a hostile president has potential appointments to make - more than a century ago.
      Every party has done it whenever they could. Getting upset about this use of the rules, and not about a blatant runaround of the Constitution, indicates that you are just another biased partisan hack.

    84. Re: Sources of Support by iris-n · · Score: 1

      He is a red.

      Excuse me, but in which year are you living? Did you realise that the Cold War is over, and the Soviet Union fell? Like more than 20 years ago?

      --
      entropy happens
    85. Re: Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean, you don't put food on your family?

    86. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know many patriots, except old people (including family members) who would expect me to die for their bizarre beliefs about honor and country (and feel disgraced/ashamed that I flippantly dismiss such a possibility). I wouldn't fight for America. I have some stronger loyalty to my state and metropolis, but I doubt I would take arms for them either. I would fight to defend my life and those close to me, possibly to ensure the safety of some random people in some situations.

    87. Re:Sources of Support by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      Cool. So he makes less grammatical mistakes than Bush.

      How long is that going to be the bar for people?

    88. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see we have another Bomb Iran fan. Just look how much good bombing Iraq has done for us!

      Lets bomb the rest of the countries in the Persian gulf as well! We can also do North Korea while we're at it!

      Maybe we should start bombing the mexican drug lords as well?

      We could even start using nukes, that's a really good deterrent, we paid for them, lets use 'em!

      Yeah buddy, negotiating severely hurts the USA! so lets make amerika great again and bomb people instead!

    89. Re: Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Communism is not dependent on Soviet ideology or practice. Shh kid.

    90. Re: Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > U need to read the constitution. Iran deal was Obama's to make and Senate to approve/disprove.

      Right, so it wasn't for the Senate to consider and you think referencing the Constitution has magically supported your baseless claim.

    91. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >He certainly has plenty of influence in the circles of people like Assange

      BULLSHIT!

    92. Re: Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Things aren't that black and white anymore.

      You just fucking stated how thing aren't black and white and then just fucking offered a black and white crazy as fuck analysis. Why is this garbage getting modded up.

    93. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Operating in ignorance is the basis of reason. This includes incomplete self-awareness of right and wrong.

    94. Re: Sources of Support by IceAgeComing · · Score: 1

      I'm seeing a couple of hatchet pieces online from the NY Post and other tabloids, calling Bernie a Communist, and that's it.

      So I've taken your bait and hope to stop others from wasting their time. You could always back up your statements with some references, of course. And I suggest not referring to the National Enquirer if you want to be taken seriously.

    95. Re: Sources of Support by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      The GOP has technically had CONgress in session since 2012. They have kept 1 CONgress critter at both the senate and the house so that O could not appoint judges, ppl. He did so, because he said that this was total BS (and he is correct). However, SCOTUS said that no, the constitution says that while in session, that president can NOT appoint. So, to date, that is the ONLY unconstitutional thing that O has done, even though the GOP regularly accuse him of numerous BS things. For example, he has the rights to do what he did with the illegals. Sadly, it is not the right thing to do. Instead, the fucking GOP should be doing their GD jobs and putting forward bills to solve this. And it will require a simple compromise.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    96. Re: Sources of Support by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      really? Please come up with a link that shows that. I have never heard of that before this time.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    97. Re: Sources of Support by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      No, I think that this is all BS. I can not stand what the fucking GOP is doing, and what O is doing in return. This is destroying america. The GD GOP should be doing their jobs. As it is, the more control that they have had of CONgress, then worse things have gotten. That is why it is very likely that for the GD dems are going to have MAJOR control of DC for the next 4-8 years.
      Though to be honest, if Assange has SOMETHING real, and not just the major lies that he comes up all the time, then it might give trump a chance.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    98. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Biden kind of has a reputation of being the Jeb Bush of the democrats.

      That isn't a compliment.

    99. Re: Sources of Support by Bartles · · Score: 1

      What does that have to do with bypasses the Senate on treaty ratification?

    100. Re: Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A video praising castro doesnt do it for you? And i dont care if he i mao or ayn. He what he is though.

    101. Re:Sources of Support by q4Fry · · Score: 1

      Fortunately for Assange, even Trump isn't crazy enough to declare war on Ecuador.

      I don't think that's been conclusively proven. Just wait until $ecuadorean_leader writes a mean tweet about him.

    102. Re:Sources of Support by dave420 · · Score: 1

      How? It is working, and is decreasing the threat of Iran as a nuclear aggressor (even though that wasn't a real risk in the first place, so much that even the CIA, MI6 and Mossad all agree on that). But whatever gets you through the night - facts can be cold bedfellows.

    103. Re:Sources of Support by richieb · · Score: 1
      You don't live in the post-war 50's with an American dream available to all.

      Are you kidding? In the 50s that idea only applied to white males. Try to talk to someone who was an adult in the 50s..

      --
      ...richie - It is a good day to code.
    104. Re:Sources of Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No man in earth understands ANYTHING, until he has insightful awareness that EVERYTHING he knows is WRONG.

      Since everything you know is wrong, please go set yourself on fire for something or other.

    105. Re:Sources of Support by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      We don't need to bomb Iran.

      The Sunnis will do it for us. We just need to maintain the stalemate.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    106. Re:Sources of Support by RyoShin · · Score: 1

      "This is clearly a treaty," Arizona Sen. John McCain told reporters Tuesday. "They can call it a banana, but it's a treaty."

      Enhanced interrogation techniques.

    107. Re: Sources of Support by Bartles · · Score: 1

      This article lays it out pretty well.

  4. Indict? by jbmartin6 · · Score: 0

    There is nothing described here that would be grounds for an indictment.

    --
    This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    1. Re:Indict? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      YANAL

    2. Re: Indict? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I prefer ANAL.

    3. Re:Indict? by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 0

      That's basically part of the problem with all this. It's not to say that it wasn't a terrible idea that was horribly insecure, but none of it was per se illegal at the time. Really the only thing that she could possibly be indicted/convicted on related to this is an attempt to cover up or destroy evidence - and even then, you'd pretty much have to get a smoking gun in this day and age, like catching her emailing her staffers with direct instructions to violate the law. Good luck finding anything like that.

    4. Re:Indict? by funwithBSD · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You don't understand the law.

      Send information that is required by law to be on secure communications and you have committed a crime.
      Markings, intent, not classified at the time... all of that is immaterial.

      If you do it, even "accidentally", you are usually in deep shit.

      But not Hillary. Wonder why....

      --
      Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
    5. Re:Indict? by jeff4747 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, it was illegal at the time.

      First, the Clinton campaign tried to excuse the server by conflating retroactively marking documents classified with retroactively classifying documents. Problem is markings are not what makes a document classified.

      Currently, the Clinton campaign is trying to push an argument that she lacked intent, and thus can not be indicted. The problem is the relevant statute does not require intent. She can be indicted based on either 1) intent or 2) gross negligence. And the email saying "we got hacked, so we turned the server off for a minute" demonstrates gross negligence pretty well.

      and even then, you'd pretty much have to get a smoking gun in this day and age, like catching her emailing her staffers with direct instructions to violate the law. Good luck finding anything like that.

      Already did. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/st...

      Clinton responds, "If they can't, turn into nonpaper w no identifying heading and send nonsecure."

    6. Re:Indict? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But not Hillary. Wonder why....

      Maybe being the fucking Secretary of State had something to do with it?
      Nah, it's a secret Liberal Illuminati Trilateral Military Industrial Muslim Complex Conspiracy!

      Assange was quoted as saying: "Won't somebody please pay attention to me again??"

    7. Re:Indict? by danbert8 · · Score: 1

      The fact that it was horribly insecure was in fact illegal at the time. The only defense Hillary had was that there was no classified information which is known to be untrue. Whether or not there was intent or a cover-up determines how many crimes were committed and how harsh the penalties should be.

      Who am I kidding, the sitting president has ordered the execution of US citizens without a trial and he hasn't even seen a courtroom about it. What does Hillary have to fear?

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    8. Re: Indict? by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      After the election.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    9. Re:Indict? by funwithBSD · · Score: 5, Informative

      Ah, the old Nixon defense:

      In the context of American national security, Nixon replied: "Well, when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal."

      --
      Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
    10. Re:Indict? by Ghostworks · · Score: 2

      That's basically part of the problem with all this. It's not to say that it wasn't a terrible idea that was horribly insecure, but none of it was per se illegal at the time.

      First, it is highly illegal. (The "at the time qualifier" makes no sense... it's been illegal for a long, long time.)

      Really the only thing that she could possibly be indicted/convicted on related to this is an attempt to cover up or destroy evidence - and even then, you'd pretty much have to get a smoking gun in this day and age, like catching her emailing her staffers with direct instructions to violate the law. Good luck finding anything like that.

      Every paragraph of those documents would begin with a classification code. It's not like it's metadata that can be lost in a file transfer. She would have had to have someone print and re-type the documents to remove the codes. Unless that guy comes forward and falls on his sword, she has no defense. She willingly and deliberately circumvented the classification system, then put the documents on an insecure server. She has violated the law several times over, and it's probably killed several of our sources.

      The DOJ has given the technician who set up the server immunity. They have on the order of 100 agents working the case. They have her. It's open and shut with testimony and evidence lined up. The could indict her at any time.

      All it comes down to now is speculation about why they haven't. Is the President pressuring them to stay clear of his party's nominee (and presumptive nominee for months now - Sorry, Bernie)? Are they waiting to indict until after the election to avoid the appearance of bias? Are they waiting until after the election when Obama will no long be in office to pardon her? Are they waiting until after the election on the chance that she loses and she's left without anyone who will care enough to interfere? Are they holding onto the possibility of indictment to exchange politically for special treatment? Are they staying out because higher-ups recognize she will never actually serve time, so why bother to hurry?

      There are a hundred scenarios that could play out, but All of them that based on her being innocent, unaware, or even just incompetent are in the rear view mirror.

    11. Re:Indict? by Rob+Y. · · Score: 0

      Did you actually read the article you linked to. It talked about sending 'talking points' that were not classified over an insecure fax system, because they couldn't get the secure one to work. Does it matter at all to you that the information involved wasn't classified and so it doesn't matter what system it was sent over? Or do you just care about scoring points with an ominous sounding headline?

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    12. Re:Indict? by anyaristow · · Score: 1

      Espionage act. Negligent disregard for securing state secrets is a federal crime. Obstruction of justice. Destroying protected information. Destroying evidence. That much is certain. Less certain is public corruption, also a federal crime. Taking money for delivering favors through your government position. It's obvious that she's done it, but it's unknown if her emails contain proof, though lesser figures have been jailed on patterns alone, and her patterns have many more data points.

    13. Re:Indict? by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

      All that is true, but isn't that already known without whatever Wikileaks has on tap? I didn't see anything in what Assange hinted about that would change the likelihood of an indictment.

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    14. Re:Indict? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      and even then, you'd pretty much have to get a smoking gun in this day and age, like catching her emailing her staffers with direct instructions to violate the law. Good luck finding anything like that.

      Already did. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/state-department-releases-more-clinton-emails-several-marked-classified/

      Why do people keep repeating this false talking point? Do you actually know why documents are classified and how they are supposed to be handled, or are you just parroting a line from a news source? Do you even know what a nonpaper is and why they are used?

      Having talked to people who work in government with these types of documents, this instruction is certainly unusual. However it isn't per say mishandling of classified documents. It would depend on what the information was and who classified it, among other things. As an example, let me put together a hypothetical situation in which Clinton's request is perfectly reasonable:

      Hypothetical: The State Department is considering the affects of legalizing marijuana across the nation, and is in discussions with other countries about how they would react. This is all done informally at this point as neither country wants to officially take a position. As such the State Department is having all the documents classified because it suggests a potential policy of the United States government.

      Clinton wants to know the latest development for a briefing, but the secure fax systems is down. So she requests that her aide make it a "nonpaper" by stripping all of the country markings and information. This would be okay in terms of law as the document was originally classified by the State Department. This is even okay in theory, as the only reason the document is classified as it is associated with the State Department and suggests a policy direction; if you strip all that away it becomes one of countless other opinion pieces you can find on marijuana advocacy websites (and is indeed as non-authoritative as this posting by an AC on a website).

      In this hypothetical situation, it is unusual for Clinton to request an aide to "turn into nonpaper w no identifying heading and send nonsecure," but it violates neither the spirit nor the letter of the law in regard to classified documents. It probably violated State Department policy, but that is no more wrong than a CEO of a small company saying "I know I said we only use Blackberries, but you WILL find a way to get my iPhone to work with our email."

      Now I do think that Clinton has violated both the spirit and the letter of the law in terms of records management. I also strongly suspect she has mishandled classified documents. But unless you have more context (e.g. the document she requested to have turned into a nonpaper had originally been classified by another agency rather than the State Department, and it indeed had been sent unclassified without that agency's approval), that "smoking gun" you and everybody keeps pointing to is more of a damp squib.

      I'll also note as an afterthought that even in that article you listed, "State Department said a review showed that the document in question was sent 'apparently by secure fax, after all,' and was never was sent to Clinton by email."

    15. Re:Indict? by jeff4747 · · Score: 2

      Stripping the classification markings off a document without proper review is a problem. Whether it breaks "the rules" or "the law" depends on a lot of details about the circumstances.

      Does it matter at all to you that the information involved wasn't classified and so it doesn't matter what system it was sent over?

      We don't know what was or was not actually classified, since that part was redacted....which you'd know by reading the article.

      Since there are redactions, either there was classified information, or someone illegally redacted the document. It would be nice to know which.

    16. Re:Indict? by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      She had no 'intent' to harm the interests of the United States.

      Golly....if only my post had directly addressed this "intent" bullshit.......

      Do you have some statute that you're not selectively reading?

      18 U.S. Code section 793, Subsection (f)

    17. Re:Indict? by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      Do you actually know why documents are classified and how they are supposed to be handled

      Yes. And I don't even have to talk to other people about it.

      However it isn't per say mishandling of classified documents.

      Stripping the portion marking and header/footer from a document without proper review is either against "the rules" or "the law". Which it breaks depends on a lot of details of the specific circumstances.

      But unless you have more context (e.g. the document she requested to have turned into a nonpaper had originally been classified by another agency rather than the State Department, and it indeed had been sent unclassified without that agency's approval)

      The relevant email was redacted when it was released under FOIA. So either it contained classified, or someone illegally redacted it.

      It should be noted that the secure fax mentioned at the end of the article was a printout of an email. Just to avoid more confusion.

    18. Re:Indict? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stripping the classification markings off a document without proper review is a problem. Whether it breaks "the rules" or "the law" depends on a lot of details about the circumstances.

      Does it matter at all to you that the information involved wasn't classified and so it doesn't matter what system it was sent over?

      We don't know what was or was not actually classified, since that part was redacted....which you'd know by reading the article.

      Since there are redactions, either there was classified information, or someone illegally redacted the document. It would be nice to know which.

      "Classified information" means very little. For example, any newspaper story based on the Snowden documents contains Top Secret information and is therefore inherently also classified Top Secret, no matter how public the information is. Information doesn't become declassified just because it is no longer secret - a slow formal process has to be followed. Technically anyone with a classification was supposed to avoid reading those newspaper stories, just as they are supposed to avoid reading any documents they see at work that they are not cleared for.

      Suggesting that Clinton should be indicted when the actual contents of the emails may have been as innocuous as a discussion of the front page of the NY Times might be legally plausible in an academic sense, but would expose the justice system to ridicule in practice.

    19. Re:Indict? by buckbanzaii · · Score: 1

      "It's unclear whether the talking points themselves contained classified information." However, "Part of the exchange is redacted, so the context of the emails is unknown,..." So your theory is that the portions that are redacted by State are unclassified? Perhaps they contained unclassified talking points that are in the public? That's not how this works.

    20. Re:Indict? by dunkindave · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Stepping into the discussion. I used to be a classifier in the government so have some experience with these areas.

      Except it wasn't illegal at the time.

      Sending and storing classified material insecurely has been illegal for a very long time. It was definitely illegal during her term a Secretary of State. Knowing that the material is classified is on the onus of the sender/possessor, and as SoS she is legally expected to know what is classified. While she can technically tap dance around Department of State material classification since as SoS theoretically she gets to set the rules (though within limits, some I have listed below, and my guess is she violated those), she doesn't get to change other department's/agency's material. Leaving off the markings doesn't change that she was insecurely sending and storing classified material that by law has handling requirements that she was violating. As jeff4747 said, she is acting like the material is being retroactively classified which is isn't; it is being retroactively marked. It was classified at the time and by not marking it then, she is now claiming ignorance. If she was that ignorant of the rules she was placed in the position to enforce, then she had no right being the Secretary of State. Telling a staffer in an email to strip off classification markings and send a classified document by insecure means just demonstrates how she thought the law didn't apply to her.

      She had no 'intent' to harm the interests of the United States.

      Knowingly violating the laws designed to provide protection of information "which reasonably could be expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security" just for her own convenience, and so she can skirt FOIA issues, is legally considered a form of "intent", i.e. gross negligence. Think of a guy at the NSA taking top secret documents home at night to work on them. He doesn't intend to cause harm, but he can still go to jail.

      Do you have some statute that you're not selectively reading?

      I think 46 CFR 503, EO13526, 32 CFR 2001, 18 USC 798, DoDD 5200 et al, etc., don't need to be selectively read. They make the duties of people dealing with classified info very clear - and the mishandling very illegal.

      Or are you just listening to the other misogynists?

      Ahhh, invoking an ad hominem attack, and a bad one at that. So you label anyone who speaks against her as a misogynist? In your world it's not possible for a person to disagree with her based on the merit of the facts? Just to be clear, you are the one who has brought her gender into the discussion.

    21. Re:Indict? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No surprise that you and the 3+ users who modded you up can't read, but if you actually click that link it doesn't mention anywhere that the quote you've selected has anything to do with classified information.

    22. Re:Indict? by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      Technically anyone with a classification was supposed to avoid reading those newspaper stories

      Pedantic correction: They can read newspaper stories about the documents, they can't read the documents themselves.

      Suggesting that Clinton should be indicted when the actual contents of the emails may have been as innocuous as a discussion of the front page of the NY Times might be legally plausible in an academic sense, but would expose the justice system to ridicule in practice.

      And if that was the only "problematic" email, that argument would work. It isn't the only "problematic" email.

    23. Re:Indict? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because she has original classification authority.

    24. Re:Indict? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The corporate and military support of Hillary stopped being an Illuminati Conspiracy once documents of financial support, and her vocal and political support for Bush Jr.'s foreign policy in the Middle East, happened.
      The woman is too untrustworthy to hold a concise political position (she changed her politics since the 90's in a contradictory manner to fit with the "trend"),
      she supports fucking Saudi Arabia with all her might despite it being a glaring contradictory violation of any and all feminist fartery to support such a nation (but it's fine, since what's important is that she is the 1st female president durrr!!!111!!);
      she has shown a complete disregard of listening to advisory, having the patience to listen to her advisory's assessments of situations to pick up a concise rhetoric from that, and a lack of interest in educating herself in trending technology topics of importance (as evidenced by her idiotic moronic statement following the Paris attacks in regards to encryption).
      For fuck's sake, she even supports Monsanto. Even the staunchest supporters of genetic engineering and the more heatedly debated sciences, regard Monsanto as the definition of a corporation without any semblance of Business Ethic, let alone general ethics.

      I can't choose between who is worse in regards to the election. All i can say is a feeling, and the feeling is that Trump is enough of a clown that at least nobody will allow him to act on his idiocy if he gets in the position, while Hillary will actually have support and power for her evil shit.
      Or to be more direct: Trump seems to exist as a tool to push Hillary through, since nobody in their right mind would vote Hillary if anyone other than Trump was in the opposing seat.
      Either way, USA is fucked for the next presidency.

    25. Re:Indict? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793

      (f) Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—
      Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

    26. Re:Indict? by Ramze · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's much, much more complicated than that. Just as one little wrinkle -- as Secretary of State (an official part of the executive branch), Hillary had the power to classify information or to de-classify already classified information IF the classification originated with her office. So, if she sent something that was classified by the Secretary of State office (which would be many things dealing with foreign intelligence), she could actually de-classify it, transmit it, then re-classify it later on a whim.

      It's very, very hard to know what was and was not classified at the time she sent or received information and whether or not she had the power to de-classify anything that might have been sent or stored improperly.

      The reason she's special is that she's a cabinet member, not some junior officer out at an army base. She has plenary power granted by the presidency to classify and un-classify documents herself that originate with her office. It absolutely DOES matter whether or not something was classified at the time it was sent or received, and if it is classified, it matters which department classified it.

      As an aside, many things are "classified" just so certain people can get all of their e-mail through their classified-only e-mail account b/c they're too lazy to check 2 separate e-mails. I'm sure somewhere, there's a classified document on what pizza toppings a general wants at their upcoming office birthday party... b/c laziness.... not national security.

      Hillary used the private e-mail server to intentionally control what information was available by the FOIA and federal records act, and she may be criminally indicted for improperly sending/receiving/storing classified info (though I doubt it.) The relevant laws do actually require knowledge and intent, not just the action... so, unless the DOJ gets Hillary's former underlings to roll on her (and assuming they aren't immediately reported to have suspiciously committed suicide), it's going to be a very difficult case to build against her.

    27. Re:Indict? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Technically anyone with a classification was supposed to avoid reading those newspaper stories

      Pedantic correction: They can read newspaper stories about the documents, they can't read the documents themselves.

      No, they can only read newspaper stories that refer to the leak of documents without containing any of the information. Information is classified, not the exact wording or presentation or form of the document. Even short descriptions of the purpose of the PRISM program, for example, are classified whether or not they use the original documents.

      In fact, stories that don't use leaked documents can be classified - for example a newspaper story on local anger over drone strikes in Pakistan could be retrospectively classified by a military censor on the grounds that the story discusses the attempts to kill someone on the kill list, which is TS/SCI. The DoD is not exactly known for its concern about overzealous classification decisions.

    28. Re:Indict? by vtcodger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Just to complicate things, not only is it up to the person writing a document to ensure the information is properly marked -- a process that is bound to be error prone, I believe that the Sec of State is one of the very numerous people who can legally change the classification of a piece of information. Not only is "I didn't think THAT was classified" often a legitimate defense, "I didn't think that SHOULD be classified" may well be a legitimate defense for the SecofState.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    29. Re:Indict? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      That makes the law harder on her, not easier.

      Having original classification authority doesn't mean she can unilaterally declassify. It means if she sees something secret (e.g. full resolution spy satellite photos found on her server) she is required to mark it classified and start an investigation as to why it was in the open.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    30. Re:Indict? by Ramze · · Score: 1

      Actually, the authority to classify all information is derived from the Office of the President. Executive Order 13526 is what created the department to classify documents.... and its authority is derived and is an extended from the president's authority.... so, yeah... The President of the United States can at a whim decide what is and what is not classified at any moment without any input from anyone else.

      So... that would be absolutely true that it is not illegal if the president sends classified info through whatever means he wishes since he's the one who determines what is and is not classified at any point in time. He can't, by definition, decide to send something at the exact same moment that the president has decided not to allow himself to send.

    31. Re:Indict? by funwithBSD · · Score: 1

      Agreed, but you applied the Presidential authority to the Secretary of State.

      So you are saying the President authorized this personally?

      Quite the bombshell.

      Otherwise, your argument holds no meaning.

      --
      Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
    32. Re:Indict? by funwithBSD · · Score: 1

      Edit: The presidential standard was applied by someone else, not you personally.

      --
      Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
    33. Re:Indict? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Presidents delegate, in fact any leader does, and Obama delegated certain authorities to the Secretary of State when she was appointed

      Why are you all so intentionally dense on this?

    34. Re:Indict? by Ramze · · Score: 1

      If the classification originated with the Office of the Secretary of State, then Hillary would have been perfectly qualified to de-classify the classified documents before sending as well.

      The power to classify documents in the first place originates from the presidency. As Secretary of State, her authority also originates with the presidency and she has plenary power (with the exception of the president's office itself) to classify and de-classify any documents that originate from her office as that power is an extension of the president's authority.

      It works like this --> President's authority to classify/de-classify is delegated to the Original Classification Authority by Executive Order 13526, AND is also delegated to each cabinet member as it pertains to their department. Even if everything Hillary sent and received WAS classified at the time it was sent, so long as it was from and within her own department, she can claim she de-classified whatever information she wants on a whim as she pleased and then re-classified it immediately after (so long as it wasn't stored), and it would still be LEGAL. She has to actually have sent or received something from a different department to nail her to the wall for this.

      That's why this is so hard to prosecute. You have to remember her entire office and position is an extension of the presidency. The president can do whatever he/she wants with classified information since the authority to even create a classification system and rules for it originates by executive order from his/her own damn office. Congress has no authority to stop the president from de-classifying anything at any moment on a whim -- or delegating that authority to the Secretary of State to de-classify documents that originate with that office either.

      Classification rules and procedures are NOT part of the constitution, and while the DOJ can choose to prosecute under federal laws built up around the classification system, it's the president and the executive branch that control what IS and what IS NOT classified. As Secretary of State, if Hillary sent, received, stored anything unsecured that originated from her office, the only person who could countermand her statement that it was not classified is the president.

    35. Re:Indict? by UnderCoverPenguin · · Score: 1

      Until these documents Wikileaks claims to possess are released, we don't know what they actually prove.

      Wikileaks needs to release those documents now so there is time to evaluate them before the Dem Party Convention.

      --
      Don't try to out wierd me, three-eyes. I get stranger things than you, free with my breakfast cereal. --Zaphod Beeblebr
    36. Re:Indict? by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 0

      No, that's not what we're talking about. We're not talking about taking a classified document that was marked as such which she or her staffers put in an email. We're talking about things like them writing an email, about subjects that State didn't think was classified, and sending it, and then someone else (FBI, CIA, whomever) coming in later and going "Hey, the stuff in this is classified, it needs to be protected as such."

      You may ask "well, how can that be? Isn't something classified or not?" No, it's not. Someone needs to say "This is classified." Government agencies prepare guidelines for that*, and they don't always agree. Sometimes they agree it should be classified, but not at what level. Once it has been marked, though, they're all required to handle it as such. You can even have things that are classified by sheer aggregation, where if you assemble enough unclassified information together, it becomes classified simply because of the damage it could cause if a foreign adversary gained access to it.

      *Furthermore, guess who sets the guidelines for what the State Department considers classified? The Secretary of State. If she says "I didn't think X was classified", she has a pretty strong legal defense unless you can prove she knew otherwise at the time. I'm not saying it's impossible, merely that it's not the way so many people seem to think.

      And I'm sure there are a lot of people who really want to see her fry for this, but honestly, they're the same people who've been after her for over 20 years. There are people whose entire careers is based around promoting the latest Clinton scandal du jour. I'm sorry, but if you cry wolf enough times, other people stop listening, and I no longer take anything that right-wing media says about the Clintons seriously (nor have I for some time).

    37. Re:Indict? by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      The SoS only has that power if the information first entered the government via the State Department.

      If the information first entered the government via a different agency (DoD, DNI, etc) then the head of that agency is the one who gets to decide if it is classified. And the heads of the other agencies do not get to overrule that determination.

    38. Re:Indict? by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      The Wikileaks documents do not matter. You can be prosecuted under 18 USC, even if no one else gets the information.

    39. Re:Indict? by Maxwell · · Score: 1
      18 U.S. Code section 793, Subsection (f) Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer— Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

      Good luck with this. You need to prove either 1) GROSS negligence (not just the regular kind - see legal texts for differences) or 2) or she delivered email to someone she did not trust. And then IF you can prove one of those things, She gets fined. Ooooh. Ahhh. Whatever.

      If this is the statute they conspiracy theorists are pinning their hats on, it is pretty pathetic!

    40. Re:Indict? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Work on your reading comprehension. GP said that Clinton had certain legitimate legal authority that she may have used. Things can be illegal because they aren't against the law, not because of who does them.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    41. Re:Indict? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the context of American national security, Nixon replied: "Well, when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal."

      Uhh... yeah... because in this case it is (potentially) not illegal because of who she was, by definition.

      The Secretary of State has authority for the classification and non-classification of documents the State Department generates. So if the document had been classified by the State Department then yes, "when the [Secretary of State] does it, that means that it is not illegal."

      As a more obvious example you might be familiar with, consider the following. In a homeowner association, if the Secretary of the board writes a check to pay a contractor doing work for the association, it's theft (and possibly worse). On the other hand, if the Treasurer of the board writes a check to pay a contractor doing work for the association, it's okay. The difference is the Treasurer has the authority to do something which the Secretary does not, or as you pithily put it, "well, when the [Treasurer] does it, that means that it is not illegal."

      (Note: This is only in regards to mishandling classified documents and does not include anything else like records management, and is in regard to the literal letter of the law and her indict-ability rather than the spirit of the law.)

    42. Re:Indict? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't this the relevant email? https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/737806568201330688/photo/1 [full]

      A) nothing there shows me that the document they're talking about is classified
      B) couldn't she be saying to send it via unsecured fax because they failed to send it by secure fax and thus the email issue might be moot?

      That's not a smoking gun to me but it is maybe interesting enough to warrant looking further.

    43. Re:Indict? by funwithBSD · · Score: 1

      I am not dense, I am just disbelieving based on what this Administration has done.

      Show me the delegation that allows her to do what she did.

      I mean, this is the most transparent administration ever, so it should be easy to find the Executive Order.

      You won't because it did not happen, and it would have to be a written order because she signed paperwork saying she understood the law and how it worked when she was on-boarded as Sec of State.

      BTW, even if you do find it, it still makes him responsible for her actions. He gets indicted instead of her, no passing the buck on National Security.

      --
      Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
    44. Re:Indict? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      (Posting as an AC because I hold a security clearance.)

      Yes, Clinton had authority to classify and/or declassify documents, but not on a whim. She had authority to do it in accordance with the Constitution, laws passed by Congress, executive orders of the President, and official policies of the Department of State. (The last she could change with the stroke of a pen, but she still has to officially sign the State order changing the policy, even if it's her intent to change it back fifteen minutes later.)

      The only person who gets to classify or declassify documents without a paper trail is the President. Everyone else has to create a paper trail, so that the President may track what data is classified and by which agency.

      If Clinton reclassified documents without completing the paperwork, she was leaving her department *and* the President twisting in the wind... and her "reclassifications" would be deemed null and void.

      If a decade of life as a government contractor has taught me anything, it's that there's paperwork for every nontrivial decision at every level of government. You could accidentally order a drone strike on the Supreme Court and have it be forgiven if you filed the right paperwork, but take out the Islamic State's caliph without completing all the paperwork and you'll get thrown out on your ass.

    45. Re:Indict? by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 1

      It depends on who classified it. If she gets something from the CIA/FBI/etc marked classified, she can't just decide it isn't - but anything that the State Department marked as such, she has full authority over.

    46. Re:Indict? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      SS does not have the authority to declassify documents. She can start a formal process to do so, but it is not in her authority to do it.

      She must by law classify things based on their content, not on her whim.

      For example: She emailed out full resolution spy satellite photos. Those are always classified, even if they don't directly contain any information beyond the capability of the satellite. Open and shut. She's guilty.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    47. Re:Indict? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      No. She must classify based on content. Same as anybody else.

      Anybody in state can start a formal process to declassify, but nobody can do it with the stroke of a pen.

      This truly is 'the Nixon defense'.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  5. He wants Trump? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So Assange wants us to end up with Trump?

    1. Re: He wants Trump? by Rei · · Score: 3, Informative

      Are you surprised? This is, after all, a guy who overrode the democratic vote of the Wikileaks party in Australia to preference with the fascist Australia First party over the Greens, describes himself as a "big admirer" of Rand Paul, opposes abortion, and supports both Putin and Assad. Who do you think he'd support in this election in the US?

      --
      Monkeywrench Ex Machina.
    2. Re: He wants Trump? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Trump can serve as "the cleaner" as a lot of crap needs to be flushed out of DC. As with any cleaning agent, Trump will then need to be flushed out in a rinse cycle. A single 4 year term should prove long enough.

    3. Re: He wants Trump? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I, too, like to clean my toilet by scrubbing it with feces.

    4. Re:He wants Trump? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't surprise me if he had thing to leek on Trump as well.

    5. Re:He wants Trump? by internerdj · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If he wanted Trump for certain he would have waited a couple of months. Doing this now gives the Democrats a chance to switch horses.

    6. Re:He wants Trump? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So Assange wants us to end up with Trump?

      This election is about picking the lesser of several evils. Until we have a lot more facts, we don't know whether that's Trump or Hillary. Heck, getting Hillary indicted might actually result in a viable and decent independent candidate.

      You want us to end up with Hillary?

    7. Re: He wants Trump? by quenda · · Score: 1

      vote of the Wikileaks party in Australia to preference with the fascist Australia First party over the Greens

      That's just a standard preference deal, like the Labor party has just done to preference Liberals over Greens. I'm sure their rank and file did not approve that, but it helps the party get seats.

    8. Re:He wants Trump? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Democratic national convention hasn't happened yet. She's just the presumptive nominee.

    9. Re:He wants Trump? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Nothing evil about Sanders. He understands politics and isn't in anyone's pocket, and actually wants to fix America.

    10. Re: He wants Trump? by Rei · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The rank and file did not simply "not approve that", they explicitly voted against it. Assange and his representative controlled two seats of the council. His proposal got three votes for it (aka, only one other person), five opposed, and three obstained - it failed (this was the only of the 13 party meetings that Assange had actually bothered calling into). Yet somehow, not long after the vote, they ended up discovering that they were actually set up to preference with Australia First despite the vote. Assange blamed it on an "administrative error", and implied that it was the party's council's fault. The council fought and eventually got Assange to concede to allow an investigation into the issue of what happened. Only, they then subsequently discovered that he was only going to allow the investigation after the election and that he himself would personally run it. Eventually it emerged that Assange himself had ordered it. Four of the 11 council members resigned immediately. Four more council members joined in with a strong condemnation. There were mass waves of resignation from the party at lower levels. There was actually a statement posted on the Wikileaks party website apologizing for the subversion of democracy, encouraging people not to vote for them in NSW and to vote for Scott Ludlam instead.

      This sort of stuff is really par for the course with the guy.

      --
      Monkeywrench Ex Machina.
    11. Re:He wants Trump? by Kierthos · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'm not exactly sure what Assange is thinking here. I mean, maybe he's still thinking "Information wants to be free", or some similar credo, but he clearly hasn't thought this through.

      Trump is not the kind of person who is likely to be grateful for this sort of thing, because Wikileaks is just the type of organization that would look at Trump as an equally valid target. Furthermore, Trump's incendiary rhetoric on "making America great again", isn't conducive to giving a Assange a pat on the back for the black eye or two that Wikileaks has already given the U.S.

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    12. Re: He wants Trump? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hillary?

    13. Re: He wants Trump? by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      If he likes Rand Paul, he'd probably support Gary Johnson (campaign slogan: "Feel the Johnson!") over Trump, as Paul and Johnson are both right-libertarians, while Trump is far more fascist. I don't know how someone admires both Paul and Putin though, that doesn't make any sense to me.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    14. Re:He wants Trump? by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, no, it's too late. Trying to dump Hillary now would tear the Democratic party in half, and all but insure that Trump gets in. If he didn't win outright, he'd win due to Republican control of Congress. While I'm sure it's not impossible that some event could still occur that causes the Democrats to abandon Hillary en masse, by now we'd be talking a massive black swan event, like her shooting a bunch of kids with an AR-15 on live national television.

      The window for this sort of thing would have been around December-January, before the primaries started - maybe as late as February or March. You need to get the information out before people start voting, and furthermore, give time for other media to pick it up and spread it further.

    15. Re:He wants Trump? by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It hasn't. However, changing that and nominating someone else requires deliberately overriding the popular will of the voters. It's the same for the Republicans, many of whom are privately cringing at the prospect of Trump. The fact that they _could_ do it doesn't mean that the price is far too high, because overriding the will of those voters is going to cause a MASSIVE rift in whichever party that does so, and possibly even fatally weaken their legitimacy in the eyes of their supporters. They're not going to run that risk unless there's a clear and massive demand for it from those voters to begin with. For the Democrats to dump Hillary now would require one of three things - her suddenly dropping dead of a massive heart attack (or similar), announcing her outright withdrawal from the race, or some kind of black swan event, like if she shot a bunch of kindergartners with an AR-15 on national TV while laughing gleefully.

    16. Re: He wants Trump? by WindBourne · · Score: 0

      Nope. If he supports Putin, Assad, and China like claimed, then trump is his man. All of those, as well as Iran and North Korea, fully support trump.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    17. Re: He wants Trump? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Oh, I doubt that info on trump will be leaked. After trying to put trump into office, they need something to blackmail him with.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    18. Re: He wants Trump? by WindBourne · · Score: 0

      Nope. Not a dem, but she has won already.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    19. Re: He wants Trump? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Subverting democracy? You can indicate your own preferences on the ballot paper. No democracy subverted at all.

    20. Re: He wants Trump? by DaHat · · Score: 1

      Lets just ignore the fact that his entire campaign is based on a conspiracy theory.

    21. Re: He wants Trump? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The problem is that at the current moment it's hard to gauge whether Trump is Sodium Hydroxide or just Sodium. And trust me with that one, you do not want the latter in your crapper. You might end up with no crapper.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    22. Re:He wants Trump? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Just don't spin it. Please. Just don't. It's getting old.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    23. Re:He wants Trump? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Wait, does seriously anyone in the DEMs care whether it's Hillary or Sanders? I mean, aside of the SJWs and MGTOWs who go apeshit over SHE'S A GIRL!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    24. Re: He wants Trump? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, she hasn't. Neither Hillary or Bernie have enough pledged delegates at this point to win the nomination. By design and rule, superdelegates are UNPLEDGED up to the point they cast their ballot. Bernie and his supporters are working on switching them, and apparently a few have actually switched. Neither candidate has this wrapped up - it's going to wait until the convention and the final tally of superdelegates is actually made.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    25. Re:He wants Trump? by budgenator · · Score: 2

      So Assange wants us to end up with Trump?

      Not particularly, but Clinton pushed hard for the prosecution of Assange for publishing the Classified leaks he got from Manning, this time it's personal.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    26. Re: He wants Trump? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what your saying is we should be pretty safe from that screeching harpy Clinton?

      Anything is better than her.

    27. Re: He wants Trump? by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Lets just ignore the fact that his entire campaign is based on a conspiracy theory.

      Project Bluebird, MKUltra, etc.
      Tuskegee Airmen
      Gulf War Syndrome
      Tracking via Cell Phones
      TSA body scanners
      Secret Courts, laws, watch lists, no fly lists
      Deflected asteroid attack on Buenos Aires
      Roswell
      Kennedy assassination
      AIDS
      Aurora Project
      Bay of Pigs
      Iran Contra
      Robot Al Gore
      Recording all cell phone meta data
      Monitoring all cell phone calls
      Recording every packet crossing over any pipe an American ISP owns
      Distributing crack to blacks
      9/11
      Operation Gunrunner / Fast and Furious
      How there's only ever one person working at the post office
      Watergate
      The DMV
      Steve Irwin Assassination
      Philadelphia Experiment
      Operation Northwood
      Project Grey Box
      Clipper chips / Palladium
      Terminator 3
      Operation Rainfall
      Pan Am 103
      Assassination of Lady Diana
      Fluoride
      Reptilian overlords
      Chem trails
      The red menace / McCarthyism
      Breaking Bad Season 6
      Global warming
      Phantom time
      etc.
      etc.

      Considering how many "crackpot" conspiracy theories turn out to be true, and often far worse than theorized, paranoia should be the default state.

    28. Re:He wants Trump? by thoromyr · · Score: 1

      Yes, looking at it superficially, you can honestly say, "Trump won x% of the delegrates" which gives him a primary victory. This does not, however, translate to "the popular will of the voters". I'm not sure what you even mean by that, but winning a majority of the delegates -- especially in the republican primary -- in no way represents a majority of the voters. There are two basic reasons for this:

      1) many primary contests are "winner takes most" if not simply "winner take all". So in a contested victory what amounts to a third of the voters are simply excluded from representation. Even worse, in a situation like Missouri, Trump took the delegates with something like 50.1% to Cruz's 49.9% (I don't recall the actual numbers, but it was very very close).

      2) delegates are not awarded on a population basis. In fact, the delegate distribution makes some states more important than others and relegates others to complete insignificance. It is very possible to have the winner of the majority of the votes not even place second in the primary simply due to how those votes are distributed.

      While the DNC has a better system, in neither case can it really be asserted that the presumptive candidates represent the "popular will". This is *especially* true of the republican party where much of Trump's victory is simply due to the number of candidates (the most in history for any party) with only Trump being meaningfully differentiated from the others. Oh, the other candidates tore each other apart over minutia to be sure, but in the end they split the vote of non-Trump supporters. Only late in the primaries when it was down to Cruz and Trump did things take a more even footing.

      I'm not trying to say that Trump doesn't have large, loud and significant support -- but it is pretty absurd to claim that his candidacy represents the will of the republican electorate. At best the electorate is strongly divided between establishment and anti-establishment.

      The same is true, though perhaps to a lesser degree, for the democrats. The fact that Sanders has not been completely and utterly ruled out despite a clear and consistent message from the leadership from the outset that Hillary was anointed -- that speaks a lot to the divisiveness in the party. If there had been another establishment candidate to dilute Hillary's share of the primary delegates then Sanders would be in the same position as Trump. However, she's been gunning for the presidency for decades now and, after losing to Obama, made sure that the playing field was clear of opposition. She didn't count on Sanders which is looking to spoil her coronation (oh, she'll be nominated, but it won't be the fairytale version where she received it unopposed).

    29. Re: He wants Trump? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      well, since I am neither dem nor GOP, I am not sure how you folks run your garbage. However, from what I see, it will be near impossible for Sanders to win it.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    30. Re:He wants Trump? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      However, changing that and nominating someone else requires deliberately overriding the popular will of the voters.

      Oh. Well shit, that never happens.

      Has anyone seen Al Gore lately?

      or some kind of black swan event, like if she shot a bunch of kindergartners with an AR-15 on national TV while laughing gleefully.

      So not just a regular crime, but one of those major tragedies. Got it.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    31. Re: He wants Trump? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have a friend who believes in a lot of conspiracy theories that don't have much evidence, like chemtrails for example. He'll try to convince me that they're true and he thinks it's funny when I continue to insist that there is no evidence and get angry or frustrated about his unsubstantive claims. Maybe 4 or 5 years ago he had a new one, that the NSA was recording every phone call in the US. I was telling him how much access they would need to do that, at every phone company, how much storage space they would need to save all of that data, even if it was just text and not even audio, all of the reasons why that shouldn't be possible and, if it was, someone would know something and would tell everyone.

      yeah...

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    32. Re:He wants Trump? by fnj · · Score: 1

      nominating someone else requires deliberately overriding the popular will of the voters

      Does it? Or could overriding the (current!) preference of the BULLSHIT pre-selected undemocratic super-duper-delegates be enough?

    33. Re:He wants Trump? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Sanders is being left alone by the Republicans.

      If he was in the general, all the photos of him hanging with and supporting reds would be published. His claim of only being a 'social democrat' would be over.

      Of course his diehard supporters won't care. But they are just the usual 'free shit' people, less than 10%.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    34. Re: He wants Trump? by ewibble · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What theory? that corporations fund election campaigns? That there are lobbiers sponsored by companies, whose entire job is to convince politicians. That senators get high paying executive jobs after they leave.

      Companies don't do it out of the kindness of there heart they do it because it gets them political influence, which makes them money.

      These aren't even secret. There are conspiracy theories that are probably nonsense, like the moon landing but this is not one of them.

      The theory people with money will use it to seek power, in not a conspiracy theory it is human nature.

    35. Re: He wants Trump? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      No, Trump's many policy claims rates him as a NAZI, which is why even the kock bros call him one.
      And it is bothersome that you would think that a NAZI fascists is actually better than somebody like Hillary.
      In fact, it is fucking scary that you claim that, in light of Trump's backing by the KKK and NAZIs, and Trump, as well as a number of GOP supporting that backing. It says that fascism is alive and well within the GOP.

      BTW, I am not voting in Hillary. She is NOT a good choice. I am voting for lawerence lessig or Gary Johnson.
      The ONLY way that I would vote for Hillary is if Colorado turns into a true battleground state and it appears that trump has a chance.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    36. Re: He wants Trump? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sir, haved never choked on Drano.

      Altough not frequent, it can happen when you rinse your mouth with it.

      It is however, very efficient to clean the teeth.

    37. Re: He wants Trump? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Sanders has to buy off a lot of superdelegates. If he does that - he wins. The voters haven't spoken - they're split between Hillary and Bernie. It's the privileged few (the 1%) of the Democrat party leadership who will effectively anoint either Hillary or Bernie. Not the voters.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    38. Re:He wants Trump? by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 1

      You've certainly got a point with Trump, since the rules for the Republican contests were all over the map. But that said, he won based on the rules that were set out at the beginning, and he had the largest chunk of the votes at the end of the day. You may not like the rules (and I'm not saying I do either for that matter), but there's a very strong democratic norm of "these are the rules of the election, and who wins fairly, wins fairly." The 30-40% (or whatever percentage) of people that voted for Trump are likely going to be utterly livid if that gets overturned, and not without reasonable cause. Now, that doesn't mean there's anything they can do about it directly, other than give the Republican party the middle finger, but that's probably more than enough to make the party bigwigs not take that step in the first place.

      In Hillary's case though, she clearly has won by all metrics. She won the popular vote, the most states, etc. You can argue that she didn't win enough pledged delegates to win without any superdelegates, but that's a terrible measure that's never mattered before. It certainly didn't matter when Obama beat her in 2008 by a smaller margin than she won by this year. They're not going to overturn it, not unless there is some sort of event that radically changes the facts, like Hillary personally setting fire to Planned Parenthood clinics full of baby seals on live national TV while firing an AR-15 into a crowd of schoolchildren. The latest Clinton scandal du jour won't matter, because the right wing has cried wolf on those to the point that even if there really is something rotten there, none of the people who would really be voting for her are listening anymore.

    39. Re: He wants Trump? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      that is the problem with both major parties. It is NOT members that choose. It is the leaders that choose. In trumps case, this was SOOOO overwhelming, and the minions HATED the choices presented against Trump.
      But what surprises me, is that Sander is NOT a dem, and yet, he was (is) close to being the candidate.

      Oddly, he shows up as having a better chance of winning. In light of his not caring about the deficits, I am amazed.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    40. Re: He wants Trump? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Superdelegates are strictly a DNC thing, and they account for 20% of all votes. Unelected, unpledged. Essentially a populist candidate has to achieve at least 60% of all pledged (voted for) delegates to overcome a candidate supported by the Party. Basically - a supermajority needed to win against the wishes of the powers-that-be in the Democrat Party.

      Yes, the GOP has them as well - but they are limited to about 6% total, and must vote according to the popular vote of their entire State. So even if they do not like the person who carried their State, they have to vote for them at the convention. Pretty different from the Democrat variety who can vote however they choose (and however they've been paid, most likely).

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    41. Re: He wants Trump? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      and ppl wonder why I am writing in lawerence lessig.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  6. Sanders for president by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    a first post to believe in.

    Ooops, its no first post!

    Seems we'll get biden.

  7. It may be enough evidence to indict her by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    but she won't be indicted.

  8. It's amazing she still has defenders by LichtSpektren · · Score: 5, Informative

    Clinton authorized drone strikes (i.e. assassinations) via email from her phone, which went through her personal server. Peoples were literally being marked for death through her insecure email server. That alone should be enough to put her in a federal prison, but now Assange is telling us that there's more to be learned? Let all mortal flesh keep silence.

    1. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Even if she personally drove each drone and murdered a bunch of people, I'd still vote for her over Trump.

    2. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by LichtSpektren · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Even if she personally drove each drone and murdered a bunch of people, I'd still vote for her over Trump.

      An eery similarity to the 1932 Reichstag elections. People knew that Adolf Hitler was a violent demagogue (from his Hitler-Ludendorff-Putsch in 1923), but they absolutely refused to vote for the alternatives because they thought they had done something worse.

    3. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Rei · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah... I have lots of seriously concerns about Clinton... but I'd pick her over Trump because I'm a one-issue voter, and that issue is not opening the seventh seal and ushering in the apocalypse.

      --
      Monkeywrench Ex Machina.
    4. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Are you a fucking retarded asshat??
      Her huge crime is sending emails with a blackberry???!?!
      Her predecessor Colin Powell used his own email server...

    5. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      according to reports, the forwarded emails were “vaguely worded” and contained no references to drones, the CIA, or information about the targets.

      State dept was bothered by the timing of some attacks, so basically what they wanted to know was WHEN. They weren't second guessing the CIA's selection of targets (with what intelligence?)

      +1 I read TFA, thanks bye

    6. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Toonol · · Score: 1

      I believe you.

    7. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Phat_Tony · · Score: 1
      Although Hilary is one of the least popular presidential candidates ever, she has vicious defenders even among those who don't like her, given the alternative.

      This [disclaimer, they're selling t-shirts here] sums up how I feel about it.

      --
      Can anyone tell me how to set my sig on Slashdot?
    8. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there's more to be learned?

      Remember, this whole debacle is only about the stuff she forgot to delete.

    9. Re: It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, it's definitely motivating to know there are people like you out there so frantic about Trump. Better put on your depends and prepare for the inaguration. It won't be the inaguration of a Clintoon, btw.

    10. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by spacepimp · · Score: 1

      Thank you for sharing.

    11. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 0

      An eery similarity to the 1932 Reichstag elections. People knew that Adolf Hitler was a violent demagogue (from his Hitler-Ludendorff-Putsch in 1923), but they absolutely refused to vote for the alternatives because they thought they had done something worse.

      Godwin's Law strike 1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    12. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Even if she personally drove each drone and murdered a bunch of people, I'd still vote for her over Trump.

      This year is the perfect example of why we need to get rid of "first past the post" voting. It's too bad it couldn't happen because the two major parties have themselves "locked in" and control the system.

      Both of the major parties are on track to nominate candidates who are hated by more Americans than they are liked. This has never happened in the history of modern polling.

      Under a different and more fair voting system that is determined to select a winner that would be considered qualified by a majority of Americans, this election so far would be very likely to lead to a 3rd-party president.

    13. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Her predecessor Colin Powell used his own email server...

      Citation needed.

    14. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by acoustix · · Score: 2

      Are you a fucking retarded asshat??
      Her huge crime is sending emails with a blackberry???!?!
      Her predecessor Colin Powell used his own email server...

      Her predecessor was Condoleezza Rice. The rules and regulations regarding electronic communications were firmed up before Clinton took office.

      --
      "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
    15. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by dave420 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When discussing politics and democracy and how they can be perverted through providing the electorate with a terrible choice, their comment was precisely apt. Invoking Godwin's law here makes no sense.

    16. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No he used a public email address for personal mail and the official email server for government business. There were two emails forwarded to his private email that were retroactively made classified. This is in the IG report under a Democrat and is a far different situation then having all emails on a private server which can be wiped (not with a rag) to avoid FOIA requests and criminal investigations.

      Of course you know this. Your post is one of the official talking points that the Clinton campaign pays to have posted on websites.

    17. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Dog-Cow · · Score: 3, Funny

      Dog-cow's Law: the first to mention Godwin's Law deserves to be gassed.

    18. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Condolezza Rice -- there's a Sec State who really made things better around the world. Any references to the Bush administration just make it clear that for all her faults, there is a lot worse than Clinton.

    19. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by BiggoronSword · · Score: 1

      Gary Johnson has stated multiple times that he will not be bringing the apocalypse, if elected president. Consider voting for him in November.

      --
      interactive hologram, or it didn't happen.
    20. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 3, Informative

      Then might I suggest voting Johnson or Stein. And they encourage other people to vote for one of them. If you are left leaning chances you will probably align better with Stein if you are right leaning then Johnson if you claim you are an independent then pick one of them but either way they would be better than Trump or Clinton.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    21. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      except by voting for Killary, you'd be doing exactly that. She will win and ruin this country to the point where people will swing so far to the right, that they'll basically be electing the next Hilter....except this guy won't just be playing a part like Trump is (wake up!) - this guy will actually mean the bigoted things he says and the people will embrace him for it.

    22. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by omnichad · · Score: 1

      this election so far would be very likely to lead to a 3rd-party president.

      That's a dream that will never happen. You can already see people talking about how they're going to vote for a candidate they don't like because the "only alternative" is to vote for the other person they don't like.

    23. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Wait, are you more upset about the assassinations or the fact that they were ordered through an insecure email server?

      In any case, people still back her because the alternative is Trump. Things like drone murders and email are no big deal for most people, especial since Obama did the former and was reelected.

      It's become less if a popularity contest and more of a lesser-of-two-evils contest, and Clinton is winning it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    24. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Why vote for either of them? Vote third party. It doesn't have to be a choice between the lesser of two evils - it could be a choice between the lesser of three or four evils!

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    25. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      I dunno, it depends on who Trump picks as his running mate. I don't know how long he'd actually last.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    26. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you could have come up with a better source of that information that that rag?

      First, the "authorizations" were part of an arrangement between state department and CIA to give the State Department a chance to veto one of the CIA's planned drone strikes. So "authorization" is more like "decline to veto".

      Second, here's the WSJ:

      The 2011 and 2012 emails were sent via the “low side’’—government slang for a computer system for unclassified matters—as part of a secret arrangement that gave the State Department more of a voice in whether a Central Intelligence Agency drone strike went ahead, according to congressional and law-enforcement officials briefed on the Federal Bureau of Investigation probe.

      Some of the emails were then forwarded by Mrs. Clinton’s aides to her personal email account, which routed them to a server she kept at her home in suburban New York when she was secretary of state, the officials said. Investigators have raised concerns that Mrs. Clinton’s personal server was less secure than State Department systems.

    27. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then might I suggest voting Johnson or Stein. And they encourage other people to vote for one of them. If you are left leaning chances you will probably align better with Stein if you are right leaning then Johnson if you claim you are an independent then pick one of them but either way they would be better than Trump or Clinton.

      Voting for those guys is a vote for Trump. And Trump is dangerous for America, and for the world. He'll shoot off a nuke because someone said he has small hands or something.

    28. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Amazing that she has defenders? Why do you think a woman can't be President?

      checkmate. ;)

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    29. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A vote for either of them in a swing state is a vote for Trump.

    30. Re: It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and that fact says absolutely nothing about which of the two is worse today.

      So what precisely was the point you failed to make?

    31. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's 2016, that is all that is needed.

    32. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't get it. Which one is Hitler in this analogy?

      There is not lesser evil in this election. Trump and Clinton are both below the baseline.
      Anyone thinking that they can put a "tactical" vote on either of them is a retard. There is no limit to how much damage any of them will cause if they get to power.

      The only reasonable scenario would be to find a third alternative, but good luck getting enough people to agree on one.

    33. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by hoggoth · · Score: 4, Insightful

      From your link: "Godwin's law itself can be abused as a distraction, diversion or even as censorship, fallaciously miscasting an opponent's argument as hyperbole when the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate"

      I can't think of a more appropriate comparison since the 1930s.

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    34. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by hoggoth · · Score: 1, Informative

      > It doesn't have to be a choice between the lesser of two evils
      No, unfortunately because of our first-past-the-post voting system it does.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    35. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The problem is, it's her... or Trump. No way 'round it.

      And before you get people appalled by Trump's rhetoric to vote for him or at least stay at home and simply go "well, fuck it", she's probably have to ... I don't know, use a Mexican like a kitten in Postal 2 live on national TV or something.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    36. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Why, I'm pretty sure Trump can accomplish that too.

      Vote Trump!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    37. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by GlennC · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm a one-issue voter, and that issue is not opening the seventh seal and ushering in the apocalypse.

      The funny thing is that I'm also a one-issue voter, but in my case it IS ushering in the apocalypse.

      Let's face it; our grand experiment with representative democracy is done. It failed. Let's just burn it to the ground, salt the ashes, and hope the cockroaches do better than we did.

      --
      Go on, citizen, stamp the vote card. R or D, your choice.
    38. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Rob+Y. · · Score: 1

      Clinton had no authority to authorize drone strikes, so I don't know what you're talking about. Perhaps she discussed potential drone strikes via email - then again, perhaps she didn't, saying as how your source seems pretty questionable.

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    39. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Godwin: "If you're thoughtful about it and show some real awareness of history, go ahead and refer to Hitler or Nazis when you talk about Trump. Or any other politician."

      In fact, in discussions about a progressive presidential candidate, comparisons with Hitler are certainly justified, because Hitler mostly ran on a progressive platform.

    40. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by cdrudge · · Score: 1

      I don't know how long he'd actually last.

      Because Trump would not want the position for whatever reason? Or because someone will shoot him?

    41. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wake up to what's happening in your country. We're sliding towards fascism, and need to start thinking really hard instead of dismissing valid historical comparisons because of a cute internet "law".

      If you’re thoughtful about it and show some real awareness of history, go ahead and refer to Hitler or Nazis when you talk about Trump. Or any other politician.

      - Mike Godwin

    42. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Ksevio · · Score: 1

      Because the way the US electoral system is set up, the third or fourth evil ends up just taking votes from the second evil leaving the greater evil to win. Or the House picks the evil they want.

    43. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >voting Johnson or Stein

      Those sad-sacks have about as much chance of getting elected as they do of flapping their arms and flying to the Moon. This election year is to important to be making protest votes.

    44. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by LichtSpektren · · Score: 1

      The problem is, it's her... or Trump. No way 'round it.

      I'll be voting third party, thanks. The "Dem or Rep" attitude is a self-fulfilling, and self-wounding, prophecy.

    45. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by budgenator · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Jill Stien, Presidential Candidate for the Green party said "Trump says terrible things, but Clinton does terrible things." I tend to agree Trump is an unknown and we have no idea how much is bullshit and what he intend to try and accomplish; we know Clinton's record. I'm pretty sure this is going to be the election where a third party candidate is who I'll be voting for.

      More than likely voting for either Trump or Clinton will really be vote for who is running for Vice-President.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    46. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by sjames · · Score: 1

      Personally, I intend to write-in Sanders.

    47. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      President just isn't that important. Congress passes laws, not the President, and that in response to pressure from lobbyists.

      For people who are capable of objectivity, here is how the human world is organized:

      At the top, there is a ruling group of super-rich individuals and super-rich corporations.
      One tier down from that is national governments (and government conglomerates), which largely serve as a forum in which members of the top group interact.
      underneath that is a sliding scale of businesses, local governments, and wealthy individuals.
      At the very bottom is 99% of the human population.

      Truth can be a bitter pill, but once you swallow it, you are better for it.

    48. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sanders has no chance and is just way too retarded when it comes to economics. Other liberal senators refuse to support him because he's so utterly retarded on this issue.

      The DNC should use Hillary's delegates and the superdelegates to nominate Biden or Bloomberg and be done with it.

    49. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gary Johnson has stated multiple times that he will not be bringing the apocalypse, if elected president. Consider voting for him in November.

      Considered. Sorry, no matter how much you wish otherwise, it's a two party system, and your guy just ain't gonna win. Deal with it. If you really don't care which one wins, then go ahead and stick with your protest vote. Me, I'm voting for the lesser of two evils. You can thank me later.

    50. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah... I have lots of seriously concerns about Clinton... but I'd pick her over Trump because I'm a one-issue voter, and that issue is not opening the seventh seal and ushering in the apocalypse.

      Despite all of Trump's bluster it was Hillary along with the establishment Republicans Presidential candidates that advocated shooting Russian planes out of the sky in a Syria no fly zone. Trump on the other hand wanted to work with Putin.

    51. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Ann+O'Nymous-Coward · · Score: 2

      DO NOT DO THAT if you don't want Trump to win.

      Sanders has ZERO hope of winning as a write-in. All you'll do is fragment the Democratic vote.

    52. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The primary is done. Now you choose between Trump or Clinton, anything else will have no impact.
      And here's a hint if your brain is not functioning: Trump is the worst possible candidate than any sane person could ever have imagined.

    53. Re: It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, a vote for Trump is a vote for Trump. Just don't vote Clinton.

    54. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      With the current system, yes, but the more people who challenge it, the more likely we are to be able to change it.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    55. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      Yes.

      In all seriousness, both are possible. He may get tired of the restrictions placed on the POTUS, dealing with other leaders, etc. And I expect that if he's elected, there will be more assassination attempts than usual.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    56. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 2

      Not necessarily. If someone wasn't going to vote because both candidates are repulsive to them, third party votes at least get them a little engaged and provide important information on what people want. The more third party voters there are, the more likely it is that the system could be changed.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    57. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by eth1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yeah... I have lots of seriously concerns about Clinton... but I'd pick her over Trump because I'm a one-issue voter, and that issue is not opening the seventh seal and ushering in the apocalypse.

      Um, Hillary has already pretty conclusively demonstrated that she can't keep anything securely sealed.

    58. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Pfhorrest · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Which is only an issue if you live in a swing state where there's any uncertainty in the election. If you live in, say, California, it doesn't matter how you vote, the Democratic candidate is getting all your state's electors no matter what. So given that, what do you have to lose voting third party, if you actually prefer a third party? Nothing. What you have to gain, on the other hand, is the major parties looking at how their votes stack up compared to previous years and, if they lost some, who gained those votes instead; and if, say, the Democrats lose a (insignificant in the election but notable to their analysts) chunk of votes to the Greens, they will start adopting Green policies to court those Green voters.

      If you live in a non-swing state, not voting for a third party is throwing your vote away, because you neither change the outcome of the election (which you weren't going to do anyway) nor do you influence policy at all, you just confirm for the major parties that they're on the right track as they are.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    59. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by fnj · · Score: 1

      Both of the major parties are on track to nominate candidates who are hated by more Americans than they are liked.

      Do you really think those are the only choices? Like or HATE? The antonym of "like" is "dislike", not "hate".

      My own opinion is that the proportion feeling deranged hate for either of the two is not unusually high.

    60. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Godwin is about frequency not relevancy. All you have done is proven yourself to be an imbecile.

    61. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Might as well stay home and not vote at all then. It's a two party system, take it or leave it.

    62. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      That would be a choice among the least of three or four evils.

    63. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by hoggoth · · Score: 1

      Challenge it how? Voting third party is mathematically a poor choice under our current voting system (watch the video). It isn't going to happen.

      If by "challenge it" you mean educate lobby and work towards a more productive voting system, then yes I am all for that!

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    64. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by nickersonm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yep, that's the point. This is what those preferring to vote for the 'lesser of two evils', instead of the 'good, but unelectable' always miss: you can't push the party closest to your preferences closer to your preferences by voting for someone that's moving the party away from your preferences, even if the opposition is worse. You must be willing to lose in the short term to gain in the long term, or you'll just keep repeatedly losing in the short term while complaining that your vote doesn't matter.

    65. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That dream will never happen because it would give too much power to voters.

      One thing the representatives of both parties always agree on is that their power should not be shared with even more contenders.

    66. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not exactly how voting works. If it were, why not just vote for yourself? The idea is not to pick someone equally not-famous and not-powerful as myself, so they actually have a chance of winning.

    67. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2

      Jill Stien, Presidential Candidate for the Green party said "Trump says terrible things, but Clinton does terrible things."

      I appreciate conservative author P.J. O'Rourke's comments on NPR:

      "I am endorsing Hillary, and all her lies and all her empty promises," O'Rourke continued. "It's the second-worst thing that can happen to this country, but she's way behind in second place. She's wrong about absolutely everything, but she's wrong within normal parameters." ...
      "This man just can't be president," O'Rourke said, alluding to the nuclear codes the commander-in-chief takes control of upon assuming office. "They've got this button - this briefcase. He's going to find it."

      I'm pretty sure this is going to be the election where a third party candidate is who I'll be voting for.

      Join the club. Don't worry, it's not shameful or anything. I did that last time, it felt good to vote for someone who I felt represented me instead of voting against someone that I didn't like. C'mon, it's fine, go ahead and actually give your support to someone who you feel earned it. It might be a weird feeling for a lot of voters, but really it feels good.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    68. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by sjames · · Score: 2

      Well, I'm not going to vote for Trump or Clinton...

    69. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by CaseCrash · · Score: 1

      Why the hell are you linking to Godwin's Law on wikipedia? Do you really think anyone here doesn't know what it is?

      --
      No, that link you posted to a web comic we've all seen a hundred times is not "obligatory."
    70. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      The joke wouldn't have worked as well that way.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    71. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Woah There! The alternative isn't trump, the alternative is Bernie Sanders. If the DNC has their wits about them, if they actually hope to stand a chance against Trump anyway, they will nominate Sanders as the Democratic Presidential Candidate. This fiasco is the final nail in Clinton's Coffin, though it remains to be seen if the Democratic Party will go down with her.

    72. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have the decency to post anonymous when you steal a meme to use as your own.

    73. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Primary is not over yet. If the delegates are smart they'll drop Hilary before she bursts into flames and burns up, the only sane bet is Sanders for them. Even if she can avoid being charged formally, (which absolutely should happen if the investigators intend to follow the law), Trump will still be able to use all this evidence to paint her a fool in the debates. No, this fiasco has ended Hillary's political career. The only question is if she will take the Democratic Party down with her.

    74. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by HornWumpus · · Score: 0, Troll

      Again: Hitler was of the left. The closest we have this cycle is Sanders.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    75. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by dpidcoe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      All you'll do is fragment the Democratic vote.

      That's the entire point. If the democrats see that a 3rd party stole 30% of their vote and they lost because of it, they'll learn their lesson and run a better candidate next time (or implode completely and the 3rd party will take their spot). Same goes for the republicans if Johnson gets a significant fraction of the vote. Plus a Trump or Clinton presidency is hardly going to be world ending. Our system is designed to deal with bad presidents, we have the legislative and judicial branches to stop them if they try to do anything truly terrible.

    76. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's face it; our grand experiment with representative democracy is done. It failed. Let's just burn it to the ground, salt the ashes, and hope the cockroaches do better than we did.

      It already looks like they'll be all that will be left after the primaries.

    77. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by dpidcoe · · Score: 1

      It's mathmatically poor in the short term, but does that take into account changes that will happen as a result? Election outcomes aren't a binary thing. A 60/40 landslide is going to mean the winner has a lot more political capital than a 50.5/49.5 outcome. If one of the main parties gets 30% with a 3rd party getting 34% and the winner having 36%, that should be a pretty big wakeup call to both main parties that they to get with the times. They're going to either change for the better by next election, or disappear into irrelevancy while the 3rd party takes their place.

    78. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by ninthbit · · Score: 1

      It's become less if a popularity contest and more of a lesser-of-two-evils contest, and Clinton is winning it.

      I would say that. Clinton is far more evil than Trump. He's just completely incompetent. It's more like damned if you do, damned if you don't. It's the evil queen driving through the dark forest, or off-road 4-wheeling praying you don't roll and die. The queen will consume your soul, but you may survive..... the other guy is sure to kill you.

    79. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      You're not keeping up with the news cycle. Google around in the news about department of state and the CIA collaborating on drone strikes.

    80. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by hoggoth · · Score: 1

      > pretty big wakeup call

      Which they will respond to by gerrymandering districts to make sure no other party can get back in power and making it legally and practically nearly impossible to change the voting system ... NOT by becoming responsive to the people instead of their funding sources.

      When an alpha wolf is challenged he doesn't respond by being nicer to the pack, he responds by killing his competition and scaring any other potential contenders.

      No, the solution is FIRST change the voting system to one that doesn't guarantee two party rule THEN vote third and fourth parties into some shared power (like many European countries).

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    81. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by hoggoth · · Score: 1

      Let me add to clarify, the third party doesn't threaten the most opposed dissimilar party. The third party divides the power of the most similar party, guaranteeing the most dissimilar party wins. For example, the current Republican party would LOVE and assist a left-wing third party candidate entering the contest and likewise the current Democratic power would LOVE and assist a right-wing third party candidate entering the contest.

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    82. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      We don't really know what Trump's foreign policy is: he keeps changing his plans. He's the wildest of wild-cards.

    83. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 1

      Cthulhu for President 2016 - Why Settle for the Lesser Evil?

    84. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Pumpkin+Tuna · · Score: 1

      I honestly don't see where you people are getting this? At her worst moments, Clinton is slightly left of moderate by American standards. She checks the box on most progressive issues. Her main conservative leaning is that she's a little hawkish, and a little too cozy with Wall Street. She's nowhere near Hitler or pre-hitler.

    85. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by losfromla · · Score: 1

      Because he doesn't support the disaster that is free-trade he is retarded? Do you really believe that current economic theory has helped us? When real middle class wages have been moving downward since the 70's? When a previous summer temp gig (working at McDonalds) is now a real and permanent situation for real adults with families? When high quality jobs are being lost overseas (legal research, radiography, call center support), and being locally invaded via H1-B visas? Do you really think free-trade is something that is benefiting the actual physical people of this country?

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    86. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by losfromla · · Score: 1

      I'm still voting Bernie. Or am willing to go off-roading with the maniac, hell, at least it will be exhilarating.

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    87. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      Sanders has probably 10x better chance of winning a write-in campaign than Johnson, at this point. Which is admittedly, 10x nearly zero.

      I do agree that you don't get rid of the people you don't want by voting for them. So, I do agree that you have to vote who you really want to win, even if you lose.

      But there is something more important. By voting even for a losing candidate, you have them on the books has having gotten a certain amount of votes. That can make them a player in the *next* election. For instance, making them eligible for Federal matching funds for their election.

      The problem is that no one looks at the long term, and perhaps, maybe they can't. People who are mad now will probably calm down and roll over for the second term election of whoever the incumbent is. The real make or break of a third party happens when there isn't a big election. It's where the third party solidifies their base, builds an organization on the ground, and gets out the vote at all possible levels.

      Honestly, I think Sanders supporters and other third party sorts are best off fighting for local and state elections and building up at the lower levels. This allows them to both create an effective organization without as much outlay, and also means that they can actually get younger candidates elected into positions that give them experience.

      Look at Sanders himself, he was a mayor and then a legislator. The only reason anyone is taking him seriously right now is because he fought his way up the ranks in his state and DC and had a long record as a Senator. Too many people think that they can just declare themselves as candidates for the Presidency with no constituency. While Trump has no governmental experience, he's a billionaire, and even he did not run as a third party candidate, because he needs the GOP machine to ultimately have a hope or prevailing in November.

      Libertarians and the other people out there need to do themselves a favor and work the local level and create coherent power blocs that can cut deals with the existing power brokers and slowly increase their power to affect policy and to get their leaders experience in government. I would almost stop having them run protest Presidential candidates, because I think it makes them look like perennial losers. While there is not a huge amount of power at the local levels, that's where everything starts.

      They also have to stop with the idea of getting local power and turning their municipalities into the People's Republic of Ithaca or whatever. Allow your ideals to inform your policies, but don't try and turn over the entire world in one sitting. Nothing persists that has not been built up carefully over time.

      Incidentally, this is why conservatives can maintain power even when they seem like dinosaurs. They may not be cutting edge, but you don't become the status quo without having something going for you. If we'd stop trying to have revolutions all the time, and take our time and make good decisions and build on those good decisions, we'd make real progress.

    88. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by losfromla · · Score: 1

      A woman can, lot of other countries have had women presidents, we don't have to settle for this one. I'm all-in for Elizabeth Warren, for instance.

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    89. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Biden would make a decent candidate. He's gaffe prone, but doesn't have the political baggage of Clinton or the socialist ideals of Sanders. If he had run, I think he would've beat Clinton to the nomination.

    90. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by axewolf · · Score: 1

      Anything negative that anyone says about Nazis is automatically accepted without any kind of reference, proof, or rationale.

      This complete omittance of critical thought is inexcusable. For the most important issues in our history, we must devote our rational faculties to understanding the causes, facts, and implications.

      People knew that Adolf Hitler was a violent demagogue

      Who? How? To what degree?

      Trash thinking.

    91. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure. The Democrats could fire her as a candidate and replace her with their VP candidate, unless that person is too much of a flake to win. I'm almost certain that most people who were planning to vote for Hillary wouldn't stay home if she was replaced with a similar candidate. Especially with Trump op

      If she's guilty, the best thing the Democrats can do for themselves is dump her for someone who doesn't have that black mark. I agree that it would be a risk electorally, but if she's basically immune to indictment, how can that be a good thing for the country?

      I admit, I am not voting for Hillary (or Trump), and even I find that the email charges against her are sort of weaksauce. But at the same time, so what if they are? Is she immune to a law that someone else would be prosecuted for, just because she's more "important"? I know we'll elect nobody if we expect a perfect ideal person, but at the same time, are we creating two different laws for people? And if so, then why do we get to complain when they act as if that is the case?

    92. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      Well, the Secretary of State is a statutory member of the National Security Council and while she cannot authorize military action, it is likely that she would be wanted to at least provide advice and sign-off on that action. It wouldn't have stopped Obama and SecDef from actually launching attacks, if they really, really wanted to, but the NSC influence is pretty huge, and leaving the State Department out of the decision would cause all kinds of political problems for the President.

      So yeah, she likely had a large hand in drone strike planning. It is not clear how much, but she certainly had the power to really be a pain in the ass *against them* if she really wanted to be.

    93. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by dpidcoe · · Score: 1

      Let me add to clarify, the third party doesn't threaten the most opposed dissimilar party. The third party divides the power of the most similar party, guaranteeing the most dissimilar party wins.

      Everyone knows this, and I believe I addressed it already. Yes you hurt "your" side in the short term, that's the entire point of voting 3rd party. What you're not taking into account is "your" side seeing just how many votes they lost and then changing in response to the votes stolen by the 3rd party, hopefully becoming more in line with your actual views.

    94. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try compulsory preferential voting. And get rid of the absurd pre-show unrepresentative popularity contest (aka primaries).

      You're welcome.

    95. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by irrational_design · · Score: 1

      Personally I'm planning on writing in Bernie Sanders (or Bernard Sanders - I'm not sure how finicky they are about names). It's either that or not vote at all since between Trump and Hillary there is no way to determine the worse of two evils.

    96. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Robespierre and Dr. Guillotine had some worthy ideas...

    97. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by dbreeze · · Score: 1

      Newbies. Y'all know that 3% who always vote 3rd party? I've been representing since Reagan. Proudly.

      And yer damned right I told ya so way back then.....

      "...better to vote for who want and lose than voting for who you don't want and win..."

      --
      When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
    98. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by dbreeze · · Score: 1

      ", we have the legislative and judicial branches to stop them if they try to do anything truly terrible."

      I'm so relieved.

      --
      When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
    99. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The laws about private email accounts were passed after Clinton left office.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    100. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      What do you mean I can't? I supported Sanders in the nomination process, and I'll vote for Clinton in November. Clinton would make the better President, but by pushing Sanders I helped (in an exceedingly small way) push the party in the direction I wanted.

      You aren't going to change the major parties by voting third party. You can by working within the system.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    101. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Rob+Y. · · Score: 1

      I don't doubt that Clinton participated in discussions of whether to conduct drone strikes and against whom. But I was rejecting the hysterical nature of "Clinton authorized drone strikes from her cellphone". No, I don't think she did 'authorize' them from her cellphone or otherwise. You may object to her use of a cellphone to send email via a personal server. You may object to drone strikes in general and/or Clinton's role in authorizing them. But to assume based on little but those objections that she personally authorized drone strikes - and did it in a way that jeopardized national security - is quite a leap. Saying as how she couldn't personally authorize strikes in the first place.

      For the most part the Clinton email 'scandal' is a case of people wanting her to be guilty (why?) and then attaching the most damning interpretation on anything they read on the subject. I personally don't want her to be guilty - mostly because I don't hate her, and don't want to believe the worst about our government without good evidence. There's enough outright corruption in public office to actually want there to be more. Therefore, I tend to interpret the whole email story as "she's paranoid about people being out to trip her up (with some pretty good justification), and she wanted to be in control of her communications so that potentially embarrassing stuff couldn't be spun against her". Spun like the whole meme of "she told her staff to remove classification notices from stuff so they could intentionally send it insecurely". That story - like much else said against her - crumples under scrutiny - and the application of any common sense as to what nefarious reason she could have to want to do that. In that case the 'nefarious reason' was a broken fax machine. Maybe there's a truly damning needle in the haystack of 4 years of everything Clinton did as Secretary of State that could be uncovered - if you're so damn intent on finding one. But crying wolf over every potential needle pretty much guarantees they'll all be dismissed with the rest of the minnows.

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    102. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by MrNiceguy_KS · · Score: 1

      Yeah... I have lots of seriously concerns about Clinton... but I'd pick her over Trump because I'm a one-issue voter, and that issue is not opening the seventh seal and ushering in the apocalypse.

      Um, Hillary has already pretty conclusively demonstrated that she can't keep anything securely sealed.

      Email server, Bill's pants... yeah, there is a bit of a pattern.

      --
      Redundancy is good And also good.
    103. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by kheldan · · Score: 1

      If more people remembered that there's more than just two political parties in this country, and that furthermore you don't have to be a member of ANY political party to hold office in the United States, then things would be very different. Also if we had the ability to vote for 'None of the Above' in any general election things would likewise be very different. I'm sick and tired of voting for the 'least bad' candidate of any party and flatly refuse to do so anymore. I'll vote for someone I've never heard of that has no chance of winning before I'll vote for someone I don't think is qualified, don't like, and don't trust. Then when it all goes to hell I can at least say with a straight face that it's not my fault, I didn't vote for so-and-so.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    104. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 1

      If Gary Johnson runs under the tagline "Looking for none of the above?" I have a feeling he might even win a few states.

      Sadly Jill Stein is only on the ballot in (23?) states. The only 3rd party with a prayer of actually winning is Libertarian. And considering the "electability" chart has both Trump and Hillary polling ridiculously low, there might actually be a prayer here.

    105. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is common knowledge in intelligence circles that Hillary died in Washington DC and this woman is not her.

    106. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      Unless you live in a swing state, your vote already has no chance of affecting the outcome of the election. So for about 80% of people their vote really doesn't matter, in the sense that it has a nearly zero chance of deciding the Hillary vs. Trump race.

      There are other goals besides winning the presidency. If you can get a 3rd party to 15% then they are eligible for the debates, which would really be a game changer. And while a vote to overthrow the 2 party system in America is not very likely to succeed, it's not less effective than a vote against Hillary or Trump.

    107. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      There is going to be like 7 other names on the ballot depending on your state, and that's not even including write in possibilities. Your vote doesn't matter in terms of deciding the winner. If you need to pretend like it does and vote for Hillary or Trump go ahead. Unless you live in Florida, Ohio, or Virginia, etc, you can do whatever the fuck you want and your state will still just be blue or red.

    108. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      It seems like she did... I am not an expert or anything, but it wouldn't surprise me if Obama didn't personally authorize every drone strike for the last 7.5 years.

    109. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      Do you live in a swing state? If not, then it doesn't matter who you vote for. You can safely vote for whatever let's you sleep at night without worrying that your vote had any effect whatsoever on the outcome of the election.

      There are apparently all these Nader supporters from 2000 that feel complicit electing Bush, but if they didn't live in Florida, the reality is that the only thing they are complicit in is helping to foster the myth that every vote matters.

    110. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      If you read the first part of the sentence you quoted (or even the rest of the post), you will see the context in which the part of the sentence you did quote exists in, and it should at least be coherent, whether you agree with the claim or not.

    111. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is there any proof of this? The Government servers which have been hacked many times could also have been wiped.

    112. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      What is the point of nitpicking antonyms? Would it be productive if I jumped in with 'Actually "like" vs. "dislike" is a false dichotomy, and people actually fall onto a spectrum of likability for each candidate'?

      Also, given that by all accounts I have seen, these 2 candidates are the #1 and #2 least favorable presidential candidates from major political parties in (recent?) history, I don't think it's a reach to suspect that the level of hate ("hate" being an verb strongly correlated to "dislike") is higher than normal.

    113. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      Voting for a major party is also a mathematically poor choice for most people. If voting for a 3rd party is a wasted vote, than surely voting for a major party in a solid red state or a solid blue state is also a wasted vote.

    114. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh.. that is just too much horseshit.

      Look at what GWB did. Singlehandedly doubled the debt and almost triggered a world-wide recession/depression. The ways he damaged the US are almost incalculable.

      If it makes you sleep at night, then go right ahead, live in fantasy land, and vote for a third party in a swing state. Or get hillary - the far better qualified candidate - indicted.

      But when Trump gets elected and burns it all to the ground via massive incompetence, don't be surprised if angry mobs camp by your door.

    115. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by CauseBy · · Score: 1

      Why would "conducting the job of Secretary of State" land her in jail?

      You and the other haters make no sense. Sending emails isn't corruption. Receiving political donations isn't corruption. Giving speeches isn't corruption. Those are all normal things that political leaders do.

      Give me a break. Grow up. Adults need to run the store.

    116. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by CauseBy · · Score: 1

      So, you're saying thanks to democracy the world didn't have to deal with a situation even worse than Hitler? ...then what's the problem exactly?

    117. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      That's basically why I wouldn't go to vote in such a system. It's a waste of time.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    118. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's why it's not a true democracy unless the last line on the ballot paper/screen is "None of the above". And if "None of the above" wins, the idea is that you then throw the whole lot of them out & start again.

    119. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      It's about as meaningful as voting for either of the two parties. In most states, you can just as well stay at home and do something sensible with your time.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    120. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, except for all those assassinations the Nazi's committed. They launched a terror campaign in Austria and assassinated the chancellor.

      But other than that...

    121. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      Personally I'm planning on writing in Bernie Sanders (or Bernard Sanders - I'm not sure how finicky they are about names). It's either that or not vote at all since between Trump and Hillary there is no way to determine the worse of two evils.

      You know there are more than two choices, right?

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    122. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by hoggoth · · Score: 1

      Have you EVEN TASTED a Trump steak?!

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    123. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      to stop them if they try to do anything truly terrible.

      * Starting wars to prop up the weapons industry
      * CIA Black Sites
      * Extra-judicial executions (by drone)
      * Mostly replacing the Syrian government with ISIS

      How much worse does it have to get before it becomes "anything truly terrible"? How much worse can it actually get?

    124. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by r0kk3rz · · Score: 1

      Anyone who suggests voting third party needs to study how first-past-the-post voting works in the context of control & game theory.

      Spoiler alert: FPTP voting equals two parties.

      This is even more reason to be voting for Jill Stein, as she is advocating an Instant-RunOff voting system for the US. Yes the FPTP system makes this an uphill struggle, but seriously Instant-RunOff is so much more democratic it's worth fighing for.

    125. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by r0kk3rz · · Score: 1

      > It doesn't have to be a choice between the lesser of two evils No, unfortunately because of our first-past-the-post voting system it does. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      So get behind Jill Stein and get rid of the first-past-the-post, which she is advocating doing

    126. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by irrational_design · · Score: 1

      I haven't actually receive my ballot in the mail and I haven't been paying attention to anyone other than the top candidates, so no, I have no idea if there will be any other names on the ballot. But, since I won't know anything about any of the other people I'm sure I'll still be writing in Sanders.

    127. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that's why Hitler should have just stopped after killing the competing leftists. He'd have been a hero.

    128. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I hear someone mention Dog-cow's Law, I reach for my revolver.

    129. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then might I suggest voting Johnson or Stein. And they encourage other people to vote for one of them. If you are left leaning chances you will probably align better with Stein if you are right leaning then Johnson if you claim you are an independent then pick one of them but either way they would be better than Trump or Clinton.

      We did that back in 2000, didn't really work out all that well.

    130. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Nunya666 · · Score: 1

      Our system is designed to deal with bad presidents, we have the legislative and judicial branches to stop them if they try to do anything truly terrible.

      Then how do you explain ObamaCare?

      Our system is broken, and headed for a complete meltdown.

    131. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Nunya666 · · Score: 1

      Because the way the US electoral system is set up, the third or fourth evil ends up just taking votes from the second evil leaving the greater evil to win. Or the House picks the evil they want.

      That has nothing to do with the way the US system is setup. A third party can win an election, it just requires enough votes to overtake the R and D choices. Although it is a mathematical longshot, it is still a possibility. The fact that the #1 and #2 choices are so extremely bad makes that mathematical longshot more likely to happen because people are more willing to listen to alternatives.

      The awful R and D choices, combined with enough education and advertisement to convince people that their non-standard vote can make a difference, is the best opportunity that any third party has ever had to win a US Presidency.

    132. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      It's a waste of time if you only care about being the deciding vote in who wins the election. Furthermore, each ballot has multiple races for local offices and referendums, and these are races in which your vote counts a lot more. It really doesn't take any extra effort to fill in one more bubble for a protest vote for president.

    133. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by dpidcoe · · Score: 1

      I'm as much against obamacare as the next guy, but I think you're buying into your own hyperbole. Otherwise explain the fact that our system has been "broken and headed for complete meltdown" since the 1700s, and how we're still around even though every president I can remember has always been the one who was going to destroy the country (according to their opposition).

    134. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by dpidcoe · · Score: 1

      But when Trump gets elected and burns it all to the ground via massive incompetence, don't be surprised if angry mobs camp by your door.

      And if he gets elected and nothing particularly bad happens, can we send a mob to your door to tell you what a moron you are?

    135. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by kyjellyfish · · Score: 1

      It's possible that "that entire point" might make sense in an alternate reality, but here in the real world, a "protest vote" for Bernie Sanders, Jill Stein or Ralph Nader will ultimately lead to the election of the Republican Party's presumptive nominee, the sociopathic, megalomaniacal demagogue, Donald Trump. During the interval between his inauguration and the next election cycle (hopefully...) in 2020, Donald Trump will have had the opportunity to appoint at least 2, and as many as 4 ultra-conservative Justices to the Supreme Court. Also, the "coattail effect" associated with a Trump victory would enlarge the existing Republican majorities in the House & Senate, which means the abolishment or crippling of many Progressive programs and institutions, including affordable healthcare, the Environmental Protection Act, climate change initiatives, election finance reform, the Clean Water Act, or woman's right to an abortion, to name just a few. It could also fulfill the Right's dream of abolishing Social Security, once an for all. And it's a foregone conclusion that the odds for passing any new Progressive legislation would be zero. In no uncertain terms, it would be a nightmare scenario!

    136. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      Clarus?

      Does your gas smell like a cross between dog farts and cow farts?

      That sounds like a suitable punishment for Godwinners.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    137. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by dpidcoe · · Score: 1

      a "protest vote" for Bernie Sanders, Jill Stein or Ralph Nader will ultimately lead to the election of the Republican Party's presumptive nominee, the sociopathic, megalomaniacal demagogue, Donald Trump.

      And then the next election, the democratic party will see that they lost 30% of their potential vote to sanders and start running candidates who aren't criminals, psychopaths, or just flat out insane; giving them much better odds of winning subsequent elections.

      But don't let me stop you from only thinking as far ahead as the current election cycle. As you can see, it's worked out great for the country so far.

    138. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by manwargi · · Score: 1

      Short of Hillary doing even more cheating, Trump has a pretty decent chance of winning thanks to the way the DNC has fractured their party in half. Bernie was treated poorly and the election was railroaded towards an inevitable Hillary win, and as a result some people are pledging to leave the DNC and start a new party, and many want him to run third anyway, while others are preparing to vote Johnson or Stein. Hillary is not even interested in offering any concessions to Sanders supporters, nevermind the fact that many would not trust her to keep her word anyway.

      The irony is that so many expected the GOP to be the party that would cheat and pull shenanigans and deny the will of their constituents to avert a Trump nomination, and yet not only did they grudgingly accept it, it was the DNC that behaved more this way, opening the floodgates for all kinds of remarks from the right about commies and Leninists.

      Me, at this point I'm cynical enough to assume that the real billionaires such as Charles Koch are going to beat Trump into submission, or make him go away, as things are further railroaded towards Hillary's coronation.

    139. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why I love the idea that al-Assad is so bad because the Syrian elections only offer candidates from the royal family. As an Aussie I would take any al-Assad over Tony Abbott. I think (if you stick to facts) Bashar comes in very well compared to either Hilary or Donald. If the US didn't continue to fund their campaign to overthrow his government then he would look even better.

    140. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by quax · · Score: 1

      As a German, I would like to interject that IMHO with the current crop of presidential candidates Godwin's law has outlived it's usefulness.

      Anyhow, here's the creator of said law on the matter:

      https://www.washingtonpost.com...

      Not that Trump will care, he revoked the WaPo's press credentials.

    141. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Our system is designed to deal with bad presidents, we have the legislative and judicial branches to stop them if they try to do anything truly terrible.

      Yes, except for this:
      http://www.politico.com/magazi...

    142. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Guess why it was a "strike 1" rather than a "hit".

    143. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > we have the legislative and judicial branches to stop them if they try to do anything truly terrible.

      Didn't seem to stop George Bush Jnr...

    144. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Both of the major parties are on track to nominate candidates who are hated by more Americans than they are liked.

      Well that explains why Trump got more votes than any GOP candidate in history, er, like EVER

      This particular TP by the poster is designed to discourage people not to vote. Despite what you may have read this election is very simple. Trump is anti-Washington establishment, and Hillary is the 1%. It's crazy but it's true. If you don't mind corporatism (Obama certainly doesn't) and want economic growth, and want the Washinton Establishment to be struck a major blow, hold your nose and vote Trump.

      For the record I am an independent who doesn't troll for anybody.

    145. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

      This is so indicative of the real problem in the US, the lack of proper healthcare and orthopaedic shoes. Everyone leans one way or another and nobody seems to maintain a good balance.

    146. Re:It's amazing she still has defenders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm still honestly not clear on why a security lapse in her IT department (unless she intentionally made sure the security was not there for purposes of weakening her position, which doesn't make sense) is worthy of federal prison. IMHO she should have her sysadmin certification revoked and call it a day, right?

      "Next time before you push "send" on that thing you're doing for work, make sure there's a "https" in the address bar and the icon is green." is what I expect most officials would get, if they weren't running for president.
      I'm sure I'm missing something, not trying to troll, but I don't really care enough to "find the truth" about it. But it might help explain why she has defenders. (and I'm certainly not defending her, but like I said, I see no reason to here)

  9. why does everyone have "enough evidence"? by mwfischer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The proof is in the pudding, princess. and my spoon is clean.

    1. Re:why does everyone have "enough evidence"? by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Informative

      Exactly. If you have evidence, fucking release it already! It's as if everybody (the FBI, and now Wikileaks) wants to wait until after the Democrat national convention just to fuck over Sanders (and the progressive movement).

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    2. Re:why does everyone have "enough evidence"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would they release evidence that they can simply hold over her head when she becomes president? You need to think larger than that. The FBI wants more power and more power they shall have.

    3. Re:why does everyone have "enough evidence"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just a thought, if you have 110 % certain evidence of severe wrongdoing by someone and you don't like that someone, you might enjoy making them sweat a while first by announcing what you have...

    4. Re:why does everyone have "enough evidence"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well good. Progressives need to get f***ked over.

    5. Re:why does everyone have "enough evidence"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Assange is a rapist, he knows a thing or two about fucking people over.

    6. Re:why does everyone have "enough evidence"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I suspect the release will be carefully timed with the election in mind.

      No point releasing anything now, there is too long until the vote. It needs to be done closer to event.

    7. Re:why does everyone have "enough evidence"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's exactly what is happening because the truth is that the Democratic party tells the fantasy of progressivism to trick the young folks, the blacks, the LGBT's, the Hispanics, the Young into voting for them. When the truth is they are even more crooked, more greedy, and more the 1% than the d*mn Rethugnicans are.

  10. That's okay by smooth+wombat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld overrode the Pentagon's concerns about the overthrow of Saddam Hussein. We were repeatedly told the war would be over very quickly, a matter of weeks, and that the Iraqis would pay for the reconstruction of their country through oil revenues. We were also told we would be welcomed with open arms by the entire Iraqi community.

    Cheney continues to say he knows where the wmds are yet refuses to reveal their locations. Perhaps he should be waterboarded, since it's not torture, to reveal that information.

    Still waiting on their indictments.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    1. Re:That's okay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I still think the reason we didn't find anywhere the number of WMDs that we expected to find is mostly because for whatever reason Saddam's underlings lied to him about how many there had. Whether they were too lazy to get them, they couldn't find enough, or they simply couldn't get their own WMD production to work, they told him that he had them so that he wouldn't get angry. By fooling Saddam to keep their jobs (and probably lives too), they caused enough of a fake intelligence footprint for the western world to also believe that he had them.

    2. Re:That's okay by DavidHumus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld overrode the Pentagon's concerns about the overthrow of Saddam Hussein. We were repeatedly told the war would be over very quickly, a matter of weeks, and that the Iraqis would pay for the reconstruction of their country through oil revenues. We were also told we would be welcomed with open arms by the entire Iraqi community.

      And as bad and stupid as all this was, Trump's current recruitment drive for ISIS trumps (ahem) even this. It seems that his demagoguery is an attempt to inflame his fraidy-cat supporters and help radical Islam by pushing the moderates toward them. They're so frightened that they're willing to abandon traditional American ideals like religious tolerance and justice and they're so stupid that they can't figure out that this is exactly the wrong thing to do in terms of the real-life consequences.

      This is not to defend Clinton's arrogant refusal to follow the rules but to point out that when there's a choice between bad and worse, we have to choose bad.

    3. Re: That's okay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you wouldn't vote for them because of those things, then you shouldn't vote for HRC for doing similar things.

    4. Re: That's okay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting argument, but, there were wmds there. Called fracking fluids. Sent in by halliburton, that's why the Wells were burning.

    5. Re:That's okay by dave420 · · Score: 1

      You have no earthly reason to think that, though. The evidence is already in, and Saddam knew he didn't have the things the west claimed he did. The west knew that and kept on making the scary scary sounds we heard anyway.

    6. Re: That's okay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Derp derp. Trump is werse. Gotta vote for the Clint. Derp.

    7. Re:That's okay by argStyopa · · Score: 2

      In 2016, 8 years after he was no longer president, the "It's Bush's fault" is getting a little worn-thin, particularly when she was part of the government that sent us to war.

      Oh, and Clinton's speech supporting her vote in favor:
      http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

      --
      -Styopa
    8. Re:That's okay by roman_mir · · Score: 0

      I was 100% against the Iraq invasion and at the time argued to no end with a bunch of Americans on some stupid forum called 'triangle' something. The Americans truly fucking believed this nonsense, they were as certain about it then as they are certain today that the Federal reserve has their best interest in mind and is doing the right thing and that 'inflation is good for you'.

      AFAIC the very fact that the USA invaded Iraq was proof positive that Saddam didn't have anything much in terms of weapons. If there were any real WMDs there, USA would have stayed out. The entire event was televised, think about that, that was the first real war that people watched on TV almost in real time. Even Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld wouldn't have dared allow a war to be shown on TV if Saddam had any weapons to speak of.

    9. Re:That's okay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The "It's been 8 whole years" argument is pretty thin itself. You don't think that there are screwups and disasters that take longer than 8 years to fix? I suppose that if Cheney and Rumsfeld had actually nuked someone then it would be Obama's fault that the fallout hadn't decayed away after 8 years.

    10. Re:That's okay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the war was over in weeks.

    11. Re:That's okay by houghi · · Score: 2

      So here you stand with the dual party system. You can select between Trump and Clinton. If Trump wins, nothing will happen, because why would they do that. If Clinton wins, they probably still will do nothing. There will be a lot of "Liar, liar, pants on fire." and it will change absolutely nothing.

      While the press keeps themselves occupied with this, politicians will do what is really important to them, serving their customers, the companies.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    12. Re:That's okay by will_die · · Score: 1

      Actually they did find WMD that is really old news. What were not found are the amounts that the various world wide intelligence offices said existed.

    13. Re:That's okay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you are wrong.

      Clearly it is the fault of Moses. If he hadn't freed the Jews than the Muslims wouldn't be so angry at us.

    14. Re:That's okay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It takes more than 8 years to stabilize a country after a war.
      Before you go to war you have to realize that if you move out in less than a generation after the fighting have stopped the shit is going to implode.

    15. Re: That's okay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And bitches like you kept telling us the USA was "THERE FOR THE OIL." That part turned out to be utterly fellatio'us---jajaja. Fucking, hippie.

    16. Re:That's okay by GlennC · · Score: 1

      when there's a choice between bad and worse, we have to choose bad.

      Not necessarily true. For example, sometimes the fastest way out of a burning building is to just go through the flames.

      Although in this case, to continue the burning building analogy, the flames are everywhere, and the building is just about to collapse on top of us.

      --
      Go on, citizen, stamp the vote card. R or D, your choice.
    17. Re:That's okay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thing about Trump being a recruitment drive is dumb. Willingness to fight ISIS is paramount. To destroy ISIS, you first have to fight it. To fight it, you first have say you're willing to fight it and that fighting it is very important. Non of this half assed stuff we got going on now.

    18. Re:That's okay by Orgasmatron · · Score: 2

      Religious tolerance in the US was based on the Westphalia system - essentially a cease-fire between Christians. You'll notice that the very first clause of the 1st Amendment forbids the Federal Congress from abolishing any of the State Churches in the colonies (an Establishment of Religion), which is also the core of the Westphalia treaties. We've been happy to extend that tolerance to other religions, so long as they were willing to work within the common framework.

      One aspect of the ascendant alt-right, and of Trump and his supporters, is that we say "Fuck you!" to everyone that thinks the 1st Amendment is a suicide pact. The founders of our nation, the people that invented "American Ideals", would slap half of you silly for rolling out the red carpet for your own enslavement just because it wears a thin cloak of religion.

      And why don't you mention other American Ideals, like an educated electorate? Or an armed populace? Or self reliance? Oh, right, those ideals strengthen western civilization instead of weakening it, so just pretend they don't exist.

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
    19. Re:That's okay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot of things are the fault of the bush 2 regime.
      What is pathetic is that you want to blend in with the sheep and forget rather critical details about our history.

      This tendency of your ilk to place your head in a dark area and try to pretend the past never happened is directly why we have lost to the oligarchs and the police state.

      If you were all Adults and could put aside your retarded complacency about what is really going on in the u.s., we would already be knee-deep in some kind of revolt that would take the useless diaper-waste called the u.s. government and have it properly burned until sterile.

    20. Re:That's okay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trump's current recruitment drive for ISIS

      Ding ding ding ding. We have a winner for deranged half-wit of the day.

    21. Re:That's okay by rsborg · · Score: 1

      In 2016, 8 years after he was no longer president, the "It's Bush's fault" is getting a little worn-thin, particularly when she was part of the government that sent us to war.

      Oh, and Clinton's speech supporting her vote in favor:
      http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

      Who knows, maybe Clinton's "indictment" could lead to war crimes charges for the Bush cabal? There is no statute of limitations on war crimes, IIRC.

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    22. Re:That's okay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If only there was another less evil candidate: Cough...

    23. Re:That's okay by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Saddam was bluffing. Duh.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    24. Re:That's okay by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Hint: When two of your enemies are fighting, the last thing you want to do is wipe one of them out.

      We _want_ sunni/shia stalemate.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    25. Re:That's okay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      exactly. And if I was OK with continuing to vote for that I would have been behind Jeb.

      Sanders, Paul, Stein, and Johnson are all candidates left and right that unlike Clinton, Bush, and Cheney did NOT push for this war.

    26. Re:That's okay by axewolf · · Score: 1

      Still waiting on their indictments.

      Maybe stop waiting and start actively resisting

    27. Re:That's okay by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      So you are saying that we should only be tolerant of other Christians? Or are you saying that other religions are not operating in our framework? Or what?

    28. Re:That's okay by sabbede · · Score: 1

      Or he was bluffing really, really well.

    29. Re:That's okay by Orgasmatron · · Score: 1

      One specific other religion is trying really hard to show us that it is not compatible with western civilization and has no intention of tolerating much of anything.

      This is exactly like "free trade". We have a pile of unilateral "free trade" deals that are ruining our country financially and industrially. We refuse to distinguish between actual free trade and everything that is called "free trade". And by "we", I mean our lugenpresse.

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
    30. Re:That's okay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You haven't been following the news (or it was censored in your part of the world).

      They ADMITTED that the reason they kept saying "we know Saddam has WMDs, but we can't tell you how we know", even to allied governments, was that they wouldn't get any support for the invasion if they had flat out said "we know Saddam has WMDs because we tortured some guy until he admitted that Saddam has WMDs".

      We know torture doesn't give useful intelligence. You can torture a person to admit to anything he thinks you want to hear, and the only way to find out which parts is true is to go there and check yourself. Which was what the US Army ended up doing.

    31. Re:That's okay by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      We have some Islamic groups that are dangerous (like ISIS), and some groups from other religions that are also dangerous (e.g. KKK). I won't disagree that Islam seems to have a bigger problem with violent radicals at the moment. SO what? The choice to slice up groups into Christianity and Islam is just that, a choice. You could go more granular and split religions up into finer detail to where ISIS can be separated from other non-violent Islamic groups, and the KKK can be separated from Christianity, or you could broader and say that Abrahamic family religions as a whole are the most violent.

      If some Christian group in the middle east started killing lots of innocent people, would that imply that Christians in the United States were dangerous? What if some mass murderer in the US claimed allegiance to that group?

      I think it is quite clear that peoples' biases are allowing them to see that extremist Christians do not represent all Christians, while preventing people from seeing the same thing in Muslims, because they are less familiar.

      I think a parallel can be drawn with guns. Many people who don't own guns are scared of guns because they are unfamiliar with them. They are this scary thing that just seems to only cause death, and it seems like the best thing is to just get rid of them all.

      People are scared of what they don't understand.

    32. Re:That's okay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The WMDs were "found" a few years ago. The US government knew they were in Iraq because they gave them to Saddam to use against the Iranians in their border war.

    33. Re:That's okay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was 100% against the Iraq invasion

      AFAIC the very fact that the USA invaded Iraq was proof positive that Saddam didn't have anything much in terms of weapons.

      Nice attempt to cover your own ambitions, there. You pretend as if the WMD lies were the reason you were opposed to the war. You might even try to pretend that the disgusting loss of life was the reason you were opposed to the war.

      Everyone knows from you that is bullshit. You get your opposition from your religious leader, and we know why he was opposed to it. Your leader wasn't concerned with loss of life. Your leader wasn't concerned with WMDs. Your leader didn't give a shit about what the war would do to the stability of the middle east. Your leader cared only about who would pay - financially - for the war. If the war had been funded by Boeing - without government funding - your leader would have told Boeing to go for it and have a great time, as would you.

      Your leader just didn't want his own taxes to go up. You think that's a pretty swell idea as well, even though you don't pay US taxes at all.

    34. Re:That's okay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I realize how incredibly inconvenient it is to recognize that we are at war with an ideology and with people who are 100% of one particular religion. No: it doesn't mean every Muslim is a terrorist, and I don't think Donald Trump has ever suggested that. But he is pointing out that we don't seem to be able to know who we need to watch out for, and it is resulting in senseless deaths.

      Factor in that the Islamic terrorists are killing in the name of Allah, not just killers who /happen/ to be Muslims. Add to that the deafening and utter SILENCE you hear from the peaceful world of Islam every time a bombing or mass murder takes place. There are a very small handful of Muslims who show up at the grave with a sign or one or two who do a few news show interviews but the rest are eerily silent. I think if the Muslim community were vocally defensive of the USA and our rights and freedoms and strongly denounced the acts of violence, their PR problems and a lot of suspicions would go away. I am not holding my breath - if they're with us, it is in secrecy.

      There has never been a shred of real evidence than "moderate" Muslims would suddenly pick up arms and start shooting or bombing Americans because of words that Donald Trump or others have said. And there is no shred of evidence that kissing Muslim's asses buys us any additional goodwill.

      If someone's words offend you and your answer is to join a group like ISIS, then guess what: you were never moderate, or peaceful. So please, let's just tone down the bullshit, mmkay?

  11. Even the accusation is not enough by plague911 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Even if 100% true making a choice to override military commanders is not an indictable offense (even if wrong in the end). Hell that's actually the exact reason why we have civilians in charge (to override commanders for non military reasons). If that statement is correctly attributed to him that's a shame on him. It is just a stupid statement.

    1. Re:Even the accusation is not enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But you know what is blatantly illegal and would get you or me thrown into jail for the rest of our lives if we did it?

      Discussing classified matters, such as what we're telling the Pentagon to do, using private email.

      Hillary Clinton was provided with methods to communicate securely. She refused to use them. Her decisions may not be illegal, but making them using classified information via a private email server?

      You better believe that's illegal.

    2. Re:Even the accusation is not enough by khallow · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Hillary Clinton was provided with methods to communicate securely. She refused to use them. Her decisions may not be illegal, but making them using classified information via a private email server?

      Even worse. She choose to use the private server first. Looks to me like she intended to evade the Public Records act and Freedom of Information Act requests from the very beginning. That's evidence of crime BTW.

    3. Re:Even the accusation is not enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      would get you or me thrown into jail for the rest of our lives if we did it

      Exactly. But you do not have original classifying authority. Clinton did.

    4. Re:Even the accusation is not enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know what else is illegal? Stealing classified emails and publishing them.

    5. Re:Even the accusation is not enough by Solandri · · Score: 1

      I always figured the civilians were in charge to prevent an out-of-control military from going gung-ho into a fight they shouldn't be for social reasons. Not so the civilian could force the military to go into a fight the military was refusing to enter because they'd decided it was tactically and strategically unsound.

      And it's indictable because she sent the override command through an unsecure server. Someone who hacked into that server could've posed as her and ordered the U.S. military to invade a country. Think about that. People are trying to draw parallels to Bush and Cheney who misrepresented if not fabricated evidence to convince the country to go to war. But at least they still had to convince the public and Congress that we should do go to war. HC's setup would've allowed an anonymous third party to send us to war, no Congressional, civilian, or public approval necessary.

    6. Re:Even the accusation is not enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even if 100% true making a choice to override military commanders is not an indictable offense (even if wrong in the end). Hell that's actually the exact reason why we have civilians in charge (to override commanders for non military reasons). If that statement is correctly attributed to him that's a shame on him. It is just a stupid statement.

      I'm not sure what flavor of ignorance wants to label drone strikes and other classified military ops discussed through unencrypted channels as "non military".

      She wasn't baking a fucking cake.

    7. Re:Even the accusation is not enough by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      You keep repeating the 'Nixon defense'. It doesn't matter.

      Classification authority doesn't give her the right to declassify and requires her to treat unmarked documents containing classified information appropriately.

      It makes it worse for Clinton, not better.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    8. Re:Even the accusation is not enough by CauseBy · · Score: 1

      Yeah totally she set up the email server to hide secrets!

      Okay, so we have the emails, right? What do they say about the secret meetins of the Lizard People Illuminati? Is there anything about Area 51 or the NAFTA highway? Did Putin confer with her about overthrowing the government?

      Oh... no? No secrets? Just normal Sec of State stuff?

      So...... I don't get it. What's the scandal? That she had her own email server? I have my own email server and it's super convenient. I have a few actually. I use some of them to aggregate others. Wow, how handy.

      Never in my life have I ever cared how a politician configures his email. I've never asked and never thought about it. Why would I start now? Does Trump use POP3 or SMTP? Does Bernie prefer Yahoo! Mail or Gmail?

      "Oh, she's perfect in every way, but did you know she set up her own email system?"
      "She did? Wow, so she can do that too? What an amazing woman!"
      "No, no, I mean that in a bad way."
      "...a bad way? You're going to have to explain."
      "Well, she could have been hiding secrets."
      "Sounds nefarious. So what were the secrets?"
      "Well, there weren't any after all."
      "Okaaaaaaay. So..... what's the scandal?"

    9. Re:Even the accusation is not enough by khallow · · Score: 1

      Okay, so we have the emails, right?

      That would be a negatory. The State Department has already recovered copies email from other parties that were not turned by Clinton. So we know we didn't receive all the emails.

      So...... I don't get it. What's the scandal? That she had her own email server? I have my own email server and it's super convenient. I have a few actually. I use some of them to aggregate others. Wow, how handy.

      Let's go over a few of the problems in no particular order. First, she has committed multiple felonies, such as not correcting the situation for several years or notifying state department staff to the ongoing problems in order to correct them, enabling the transfer of classified information to unauthorized parties, and instructing staff to strip classified headers off of classified documents.

      Then there's the obvious reason for doing so, in order to withhold emails from both public records and FOIA requests, successfully I might add. If intent can be demonstrated in court, these would also become felonies.

      Third, there are the numerous red flags which indicate something shifty was going on such as not cooperating with investigations while simultaneously claiming to do so, setting up the private server well before asking State Department IT staff for PDAs with email options (whose alleged lack of options were the official excuse for why she set the email server), the IT techie has pleaded the fifth and keeps doing so despite being offered limited immunity from prosecution, their solutions to hacking attempts (such as turning off the server for a few minutes), and the backup people she eventually hired who decided they needed to create a paper trail to protect themselves from criminal charges.

    10. Re:Even the accusation is not enough by richieb · · Score: 1
      Looks to me like she intended to evade the Public Records act and Freedom of Information Act requests from the very beginning.

      Really? Any email sent to or received from the State Department would be archived on their servers (you know that's how email works, right?) So any official emails are available there, even if she burned her server.

      --
      ...richie - It is a good day to code.
    11. Re:Even the accusation is not enough by khallow · · Score: 1

      Any email sent to or received from the State Department would be archived on their servers (you know that's how email works, right?)

      And any email that wasn't sent or received from State Department servers would not be archived on their servers. That's also how email works.

    12. Re:Even the accusation is not enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no crime if you are above the law.

      At least that is what she thinks.

  12. Time to..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    #FEELTHEBERN!

    1. Re:Time to..... by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      Only if it is this one. While not quite Sweet Meteor of Death for 2016 it would be an acceptable solution.

      --
      Time to offend someone
  13. "concessions from the new Clinton government" by Overzeetop · · Score: 1, Insightful

    So...he's holding onto them so that she gets into office, and the expects that the congress (which will not change hands) will not impeach (house) and convict (senate) with the actual emails/facts on the table? But he's announcing them now rather than a surprise reveal on January 2x? And why does he not think that Trump will win the White House, and what will his course of action be if he does? I don't get his motives here, except as some play for himself in some twisted logic game?

    On the subject of the actual indictment...

    the leaked emails show that she overrode the Pentagon's reluctance to overthrow sovereign Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi in 2011, and that "they predicted the post-war outcome would be what it is, which is ISIS taking over the country."

    Wait...so it's now illegal for the SoS to influence international policy (not illegal, afaik)? Or is it just that she was (presumably) wrong in pushing to remove Gaddafi because of the power vacuum it created (stupid, perhaps, but not illegal)? Or is it that emails on her server reveal the discussions about past operations within the government (again, unless classified, not illegal)?

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:"concessions from the new Clinton government" by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 1

      So...he's holding onto them so that she gets into office, and the expects that the congress (which will not change hands) will not impeach (house) and convict (senate) with the actual emails/facts on the table? But he's announcing them now rather than a surprise reveal on January 2x? And why does he not think that Trump will win the White House, and what will his course of action be if he does? I don't get his motives here, except as some play for himself in some twisted logic game?

      On the subject of the actual indictment...

      I'm American, so I can speak from experience here. Despite all the bitter complaints from the public over the years about how "Congress gets nothing done" the only thing American voters may like as much as sending back the same idiots to Congress every year is voting for a president of one party and at least one chamber of Congress for the other. I agree that Trump's chance of winning is badly underestimated by many and if he does win, it would not surprise me at all if he gets a Democratic Senate to deal with. But there's no realistic chance this year of the House being anything but under Republican control. If Hillary wins, the odds are that the Senate stays Republican because, as I said, voters love split government.

    2. Re:"concessions from the new Clinton government" by jeff4747 · · Score: 2

      And why does he not think that Trump will win the White House, and what will his course of action be if he does? I don't get his motives here, except as some play for himself in some twisted logic game?

      Clinton pushed for a stronger response to Crimea and an invasion of Syria while she was SoS. And Trump is kind of an isolationist, at least when it comes to the parts of the world Russia wants to influence.

      So between Clinton and Trump, Putin benefits most from Trump.

    3. Re:"concessions from the new Clinton government" by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      ... expects that the congress (which will not change hands) will not impeach (house) and convict (senate) with the actual emails/facts on the table?

      Can the President be impeached for something that happened prior to taking office?

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    4. Re:"concessions from the new Clinton government" by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Not if she is pardoned between the election and taking office. Which is what will happen.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    5. Re:"concessions from the new Clinton government" by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      So between Clinton and Trump, Putin benefits most from Trump.

      More like: anyone who isn't a western imperialist shitbag (or a stooge of western imperialist shitbags) will benefit if Hillary is not president.

    6. Re:"concessions from the new Clinton government" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because, you know, it worked so well for Gerald Ford. But I'd like to watch the leftists try to double-think their way around that one.

    7. Re:"concessions from the new Clinton government" by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      The alternative is prison.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  14. Folks - don't panic! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    We are all left-wing here - it's vitally important for the continued existence of all our jobs that a Democrat is elected President. Otherwise the expansion of bureaucracy and regulation might cease, and we would all have to start generating wealth, instead of living off other people's tax dollars.

    So don't knock Hillary. Knock Trump instead.

    1. Re:Folks - don't panic! by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Trump is a Democrat, he's just running as a Republican because he's too much an old school Conservative Democrat to get any traction in today's Liberal-Progressive Democratic Party. JFK couldn't get nominated for Dog Catcher in today's Democratic Party.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  15. then release it already by bloodhawk · · Score: 0

    If he has the information then FUCKING RELEASE IT NOW so they can swap to a viable alternative. otherwise if he waits the US end up with Trump as president and that will be worse than anything that cow could possibly come up. Mind you nothing stated in the summary here appears to be a reason for indictment, overriding the miltary is something they are supposed to do when they think it appropriate, being wrong or stupid is not a crime (otherwise trump would have been locked up decades ago).

    1. Re:then release it already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They could release that Hillary is a serial killer with 50 people locked up in her basement, but if Obama is in office and pardons her, it's all for naught.

      Supposedly the FBI is waiting for her to be President, or not be President, but as long as the current President has her back, any evidence against her can be signed away.

    2. Re:then release it already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I think this is less to do with the data and more do with Assange (TM) the self-professed iconoclast. WikiLeaks is/has become a political and politicised organisation, which it shouldn't be.

    3. Re:then release it already by spacepimp · · Score: 2

      leaked data is always heavily politicized. Choices are made to publish the material. That in itself is a political act. Not controlling the information supplied to them, doesn't make them pro republican because they happen to get leaked data making a democrat look bad.

    4. Re:then release it already by budgenator · · Score: 3, Informative

      The number of people who have been murdered or committed suicide that were going to testify or being investigated in regards to a Clinton related investigation is astounding! 89 deaths, 59 in 12 Plane Crashes, 13 Murders , 10 Suicides, 4 Friendly Fire during the Waco Assault and 03 Accidents.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    5. Re:then release it already by bloodhawk · · Score: 1

      Then Wikileaks is playing politics and if so I hope they finally get the prick. It goes totally against what they are supposedly out there to do and makes a mockery of all the retoric they have been on about with regards to freedom.

    6. Re:then release it already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Furthermore, Clinton was NOT in a position to OVERRIDE the military. The U.S. military reports to the Secretary of Defense, who reports to the President. Clinton was Secretary of State, also reporting directly to the President. She had no direct authority over military commanders. All she could do is try to influence the President to her point of view. Obama would have to give the order, ultimately. And advising the President is part of the duties of every Cabinet officer.

    7. Re:then release it already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      holding the data back to release at a time that will do the most damage and thus give Trump an advantage is definitely pro republican and highly political. release of the information should be completely devoid of political taint and coming out at a consistent pre determined rate and not dictated by how they can affect elections if they aren't capable of that then they are no better than the scumbag pollies they are trying to destroy.

  16. Wait?! They already chose the next president? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "the FBI can push for concessions from the new Clinton government in exchange for its lack of indictment."....?

  17. go bernie sanders by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    We need him trump is to extreme.

    1. Re:go bernie sanders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *Go *Bernie *Sanders
      We need him.* *Trump is too* extreme.

      And they say that Trump supporters are uneducated.

    2. Re:go bernie sanders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey Joe! You reflect poorly on the "Bernie" camp:
      -1 for lack of punctuation (after "him")
      -1 for lack of capitalization (Trump)
      -1 for bad spelling (to/too)

      This generation needs to know that they will never be taken seriously if they can't write a coherent sentence.

    3. Re:go bernie sanders by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      It will take much more than a coherent sentence to get anybody to take a Sanders supporter seriously.

      The basic problem is they want to 'feel' their way through life, 'thinking' is for Republicans.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    4. Re:go bernie sanders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thinking is the one thing that republicans don't do. Honestly I don't think you even see the bigger picture.

  18. Ha ha ha ha by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    He thinks her criminality will actually matter. That's so charming.

    The narrative's already written, folks. (And the script has been WELL paid for.)

    I heard an interview on NPR the other day about the triviality of the 'secret' emails found to have gone through her server. It seems to have been entirely forgotten that this is WHAT HER PEOPLE RELEASED - ie long after they'd scrubbed it clean of meaningful communications.

    That some were left of 'somewhat' secret nature is due to incompetence or more likely a deliberate effort to leave "something to be found".

    Nixon would have been impeached over 18.5 minutes of missing tape. Hilary with roll to the presidency despite deliberately criminal behavior.

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:Ha ha ha ha by chill · · Score: 1

      Federal regulations *REQUIRE* drives to be scrubbed clean, using guidance from NIST SP-800-88 on methods, once the system is ready for disposal. Bitching that she wiped the server is just ignorance of Federal requirements.

      Her contention is this was done AFTER everything required to be retained by law was in the hands of State. The counterclaim is that she didn't turn everything over.

      Screaming that her wiping the server is evidence of a cover-up is just ignorant. It is a required step.

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    2. Re:Ha ha ha ha by loonycyborg · · Score: 1

      Information security regulations is something Hilary would feel beneath her to follow. She wouldn't want some four-eyed nerds to tell her what to do, and if any negative consequences would come out of this it'll be their fault that rules were too inconvenient.

    3. Re:Ha ha ha ha by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      It's the 30,000 'personal' emails that were deleted by her staff that are her biggest problems.

      Many have been located in other people's inbox, they were not personal and did contain classified information. These emails are Hillary's biggest problem.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    4. Re:Ha ha ha ha by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1
      https://www.washingtonpost.com...

      Which is weird, because it appears the server wasn't actually wiped, and the official Clinton position is to avoid directly answering the question of whether the emails where wiped or simply deleted and/or claim not to know what "wiping" is.

      So it appears she didn't do that right either.

    5. Re:Ha ha ha ha by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure the "requirement" that drives be scrubbed before "disposal" isn't meant to suggest that they need to be scrubbed before they're handed to the Justice Department.

      You seem to forget that it took a good deal of time before she even admitted she HAD a personal email server, and even longer before those hard drives were turned over to investigators. I'm sure that's because they what, wanted to make sure they were clean of dust?

      --
      -Styopa
  19. Lynch will indict by Jodka · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "[Assange] doesn't think it will happen under Attorney General Loretta Lynch. "

    Obama will not do anything to damage Hillary's chances of winning the election but there will be a limit to how much of a corrupt jackass Obama is willing to make himself look like to help here out. We already know, based on evidence released publicly, that Hillary is guilty and a crazy liar, so if Obama's justice department does not indict he goes down in history as the U.S. President more corrupt than Nixon.

    A prediction: Obama has Lynch slow-walk the decision to indict until after Hillary is elected in November 2016, they they indict her. After Hillary takes office in January 2017, she pardons herself.

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une signature.
    1. Re:Lynch will indict by Dan+East · · Score: 1

      If she were to pardon herself then Congress would likely impeach her. Which would be fabulously ironic, as only her husband and one other president in US history have been impeached. History teachers love teaching that sort of thing.

      --
      Better known as 318230.
    2. Re:Lynch will indict by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Er, surely she can't pardon herself? Not so much that it's obviously wrong but if it were possible why would Nixon not have done it?

    3. Re:Lynch will indict by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      "[Assange] doesn't think it will happen under Attorney General Loretta Lynch. "

      A prediction: Obama has Lynch slow-walk the decision to indict until after Hillary is elected in November 2016, they they indict her. After Hillary takes office in January 2017, she pardons herself.

      Nope, if anything he waits until she gets elected then has them fast-track the indictment and trial so he can then pardon her before she takes office. It would be messy, but more legal and less messy than Clinton pardoning herself. The only question is what Obama values more: his party or his legacy.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    4. Re:Lynch will indict by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe Nixon actually had a shred of conscience, had already achieved the goal of obtaining and occupying the office of President, and wasn't willing to sacrifice absolutely everything in life to stay there.

    5. Re:Lynch will indict by Yunzil · · Score: 1

      We already know, based on evidence released publicly, that Hillary is guilty and a crazy liar

      No, actually, we don't.

    6. Re:Lynch will indict by thrich81 · · Score: 1

      As Republican presidents Gerald Ford and G.H. Bush proved, you don't have to wait until someone close to your administration is tried, or even indicted, to grant them a pardon.

    7. Re:Lynch will indict by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL.... You forgot Richard M. Nixon. He was impeached and forced to leave office.

    8. Re:Lynch will indict by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      A president can pardon themselves of anything not related to impeachment. Nixon wasn't impeached, he resigned first, but Congress could have impeached him even after a pardon.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    9. Re:Lynch will indict by will_die · · Score: 2

      Nope.
      Nixon was never impeached. The paperwork recommending the impeachment were drafted but never voted on. He resigned before they had a chance to vote. Since it was never approved he was never impeached.

    10. Re:Lynch will indict by khallow · · Score: 1

      Because it's an admission of guilt which will make the inevitable impeachment and conviction much easier.

    11. Re:Lynch will indict by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      Nope. Nixon resigned before he was impeached.

    12. Re:Lynch will indict by mandolin · · Score: 1

      The GP is referring to the impeachment of Andrew Johnson.

    13. Re:Lynch will indict by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nixon wasn't impeached. Andrew Johnson, however, was.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Andrew_Johnson [wikipedia.com]

    14. Re:Lynch will indict by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not Nixon, this Guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Andrew_Johnson

    15. Re:Lynch will indict by fnj · · Score: 1

      A president can pardon themselves of anything not related to impeachment. Nixon wasn't impeached, he resigned first, but Congress could have impeached him even after a pardon.

      Close. It would be more accurate to say that a pardon only preempts or reverses judicial process. Impeachment is not a judicial process. The judicial branch is not involved in impeachment. The penalty of impeachment is limited to removal from office and disqualification from holding future office.

      I would like to think that a President who pardons himself would instantly be impeached, but over time I've been increasingly disabused of a lot of assumptive notions I once had over this formerly-great nation.

    16. Re:Lynch will indict by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, if you include enough low information voters, "we" know nothing.

    17. Re:Lynch will indict by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      Fair enough. I think a President would at least have a hard time dealing with Congress after a self-pardon, but whether they'd be impeached or not depends on who controls Congress and how much their party likes them, I guess. It should probably be pretty much an automatic thing though.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    18. Re:Lynch will indict by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      No, actually, we don't.

      Snort. Every word out of Hillary's mouth on her server has been a lie, or a statement of equal or greater sophistry. Like her canard that emails weren't "marked" classified when she sent them - straight up bullshit, as she knew full well that information was BORN classified.

  20. this is why i quit voting by FudRucker · · Score: 1

    US Politics is a complete and total disaster, the US Govt is a mob of evil clowns, and Washington DC is their circus

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    1. Re:this is why i quit voting by funwithBSD · · Score: 1

      Newsflash:

      Every government does this.
      That is why you don't want to give them any more power than is absolutely necessary.

      --
      Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
    2. Re:this is why i quit voting by xupere · · Score: 1

      This is why you SHOULD vote. Vote 3rd party or write in. That at least shows the main two parties that you're willing to vote but aren't happy with them. If you don't vote why should anyone in the government (that is supposed to represent you as a citizen) give a shit what you think?

      Don't give up just because your vote won't go to the winner, that doesn't mean it was "thrown away". Your single vote will probably never swing an election anyway. But parties and politicians will absolutely try to appeal to the people who are willing to vote. What matters is that you as a citizen exercise your right to influence your government.

    3. Re:this is why i quit voting by FudRucker · · Score: 2

      voting wont fix that mess anymore, the US Govt is beyond any help or repair

      --
      Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    4. Re:this is why i quit voting by T.E.D. · · Score: 2

      US Politics is a complete and total disaster, the US Govt is a mob of evil clowns, and Washington DC is their circus

      This is what is known as a "vicious-cycle".

    5. Re:this is why i quit voting by dbreeze · · Score: 1

      I'm sure the founding fathers and original patriots applaud your courageous and well-considered action.

      --
      When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
    6. Re:this is why i quit voting by KiloByte · · Score: 1

      There are villages in Texas, Kenya, and two in New York, missing their idiots.

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
  21. So wrong... by T.E.D. · · Score: 5, Informative

    Specifically, Assange revealed the leaked emails show that she overrode the Pentagon's reluctance to overthrow sovereign Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi in 2011, and that "they predicted the post-war outcome would be what it is, which is ISIS taking over the country."

    Points here:

    1. Not only is not illegal for civilian leaders to override the advice of the Pentagon, that's how its supposed to work. The military works for us, not visa-versa.
    2. ISIS is not taking over Libya. They have one town, that is currently under siege. Reports are they are slowly losing it.
    3. Being (debatably) wrong on foreign policy is not a crime. If it was, most of the Bush Administration would be in jail today. Carter probably would have just gotten out of jail 10 years ago on good behavior.
    1. Re:So wrong... by dog77 · · Score: 2

      The military works for us, not visa-versa

      We did not elect Hiliary Clinton, we elected congress.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03... http://www.theatlantic.com/pol...

    2. Re:So wrong... by Rudisaurus · · Score: 1
      And one more:

      "[...] reluctance to overthrow sovereign Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi [...]"

      In what dreamworld of Assange's was Gaddafi a "sovereign" leader by any stretch of the imagination? That's just ludicrous! Gaddafi seized power in a military coup in 1969 and clung to power for the next 42 years as a murderous despot. He is not forgotten and he is never missed. Libyans themselves shot him when they finally got the chance.

      So ... that part is just complete horseshit, Julian.

      --
      licet differant, aequabitur
  22. All specieses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Peoples were literally being marked

    Peoples, fishes, deers, sheeps, and bisons -- what do they all have in common? They're all considered specieses.

    1. Re:All specieses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Peoples were literally being marked

      Peoples, fishes, deers, sheeps, and bisons -- what do they all have in common? They're all considered specieses.

      Keith Lemon, is that you?

  23. enough to indict -- good joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "enough new information about Hillary Clinton to indict her."

    The US "justice" system is notorious for the ability to indict -- ie: initiate prosecution -- based on virtually no evidence at all. It is a common expression that "you can indict a ham sandwich". Enough information to indict is a very low bar indeed, and may in fact involve no information whatsoever.

  24. Too little, too late by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nice of Assange to wait until Clinton has the nomination sewn up. Bernie might have been able to use this. Guess Julian must be a Trump supporter...

  25. A Grand Jury will Indict a Ham Sandwich by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is not news.

    Besides, evidence that is the product of a criminal act is inadmissible anyway. Anything Wikileaks releases will be inadmissible, and it will taint any evidence the FBI has already collected.

    This is an effort to get her off on admissibility, not get her in prison.

    1. Re:A Grand Jury will Indict a Ham Sandwich by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The issue is not getting her in prison (will never happen anyways), but that FBI has a short leash for her. She will need to cave in to every demand to keep prosecutors from suddenly remembering that they have all this evidence collected.

  26. RT? Really?!? by Sir+Holo · · Score: 1

    Isn't RT just a Russian propaganda rag, like Pravda? The equivalent of the UK's Daily Mail.

    This should not be on the front page, at least not the RT link. As for the content, well, it should be main-page when and if such documents are leaked – not before.

    Slashdot is for discussion of news, not speculation of what might be released, and what it might mean. Just wait for the wikileaks release, and then main-page it.

    And hearing the Pentagon advising against a war... That does not happen very often.

  27. Only the little people get indicted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Americans are too busy watching the Kardashians to be bothered about the direction the country is headed.

  28. I didn't know Assange was a Sanders supporter by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

    If he released this dump of "evidence" in time it would lead to Sanders winning the democratic endorsement. All the polling data we've ever seen has shown Sanders very easily defeating Drumpf in a general election.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    1. Re:I didn't know Assange was a Sanders supporter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure write-ins for Mickey Mouse will beat "Drumpf". I've never heard of this person and they won't be on the ballot.

    2. Re:I didn't know Assange was a Sanders supporter by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      And the early polling had Dukakis with a wide lead over George H. W. Bush. Do you have a point?

  29. Wat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How do you square saying "...about 32,000 emails from Clinton's private server have been leaked by Wikileaks." when those emails were obtained from consented-to releases as the result of a FOIA request? That's not "leaking". That's "publishing publicly available information".

    1. Re:Wat by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      You don't know which 30,000 emails he has. He could have all the 'personal' ones hillary's staff deleted. That would be very bad for her.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  30. Chain of custody? Forensics? Anyone? by Drewdad · · Score: 4, Insightful

    E-mails are just text files, and can be easily forged. Anyone who's ever gotten a spam message from themselves should realize this.

    Collecting forensics evidence from a hard drive so that it's admissible in courts is not the same as just dumping files. Last I knew, you have to preserve the data in the original format, and provide access to the defense.

    Unless these E-mails are signed by a private key known to be Clinton's, I don't really see how they're going to be admissible.

    1. Re:Chain of custody? Forensics? Anyone? by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      Since some of the classified emails originated from addresses outside Clintonemail.com, including state.gov, Clinton's server is not the only place where these emails exist.

      In addition, the way they would be excluded is a motion by the defense. To make that motion, the defense would have to admit that someone hacked their server in order to place fake emails.

      Any charges against Clinton would be based on gross negligence in administering her server. Admitting under oath "Yeah, my server was routinely exploited by 3rd parties" would be admitting to gross negligence.

    2. Re:Chain of custody? Forensics? Anyone? by Drewdad · · Score: 1

      "To make that motion, the defense would have to admit that someone hacked their server in order to place fake emails."

      Nope. It's up to the prosecution to show that the emails actually came from Clinton's server.

    3. Re:Chain of custody? Forensics? Anyone? by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      The defense would have to say "Third parties could have inserted those emails". Thus admitting third parties had access to the server.

      It's a little like saying "someone else could have put that dead body in my garage" when you are being charged with having a dead body in your garage.

    4. Re:Chain of custody? Forensics? Anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These emails will just be copies of emails that the authorities already hold. Unless the investigators actively remove THEIR copies of the emails, they will be held responsible for holding Hillary responsible for their content.

    5. Re:Chain of custody? Forensics? Anyone? by Drewdad · · Score: 2

      Um, no....

      The defense asks, "where did you get these files?"

      Prosecution replies, "Wikileaks."

      Defense says, "motion to suppress."

      Judge rules, "granted."

    6. Re:Chain of custody? Forensics? Anyone? by swillden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Um, no....

      The defense asks, "where did you get these files?"

      Prosecution replies, "Wikileaks."

      Defense says, "motion to suppress."

      Judge rules, "granted."

      No, the judge would say "on what grounds?"

      The tortuous route by which the messages arrived in front of the court gives the defense grounds to argue that they could be forged/altered/whatever, and the burden of proof that they're real and accurate is on the prosecution, not the defense, but the mere fact that evidence hasn't been carefully controlled and preserved at every step doesn't automatically disqualify it. Police are careful to control evidence, but that's not because failing to do so automatically excludes it, it's just because it opens an avenue for the defense to question it.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    7. Re:Chain of custody? Forensics? Anyone? by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1

      Assange isn't really concerned about courts. He just wants to make headlines and make people squirm. Chain of custody is not necessary for either of those goals.

    8. Re:Chain of custody? Forensics? Anyone? by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Assange isn't really concerned about courts. He just wants to make headlines and make people squirm. Chain of custody is not necessary for either of those goals.

      Slashdot should put up a scoreboard for this story: blind winger haterorade against Assange, or blind winger hatorade against Clinton? To see which group of wankers comes out on top.

    9. Re:Chain of custody? Forensics? Anyone? by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and how many people are unsure of whether they actually wrote the spam to themselves? Forging an email is easy. Forging an email in a way that is convincing is very hard.

      If it were possible to easily produce convincing forgeries of emails, we'd have email leaks from controversial figures all the time, and they would all be denounced as forgeries, and we wouldn't be able to tell the difference. In reality, we do have some leaks of emails of controversial figures, and they are not denounced as forgeries, because they are clearly legitimate even without being signed by private keys.

      In fact if there was a leaked email signed by Clinton's private key that said "I'm a dumb cunt", far from being evidence of a legitimate email, we would know conclusively that her private key had been hacked.

      The emails would be admissible because the standard of evidence for emails is not that they need to be digitally signed. They just need to be vetted by experts and witnesses. Digital signatures can help the vetting process, but are neither sufficient nor necessary.

    10. Re:Chain of custody? Forensics? Anyone? by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      Is this the world's shittiest judge? I think it will be pretty clear that at least some of the emails are real when it becomes insanely apparent that that no hacker could forge tens of thousands of emails that accurately reference numerous people, events, circumstances, etc in the state department. At that point the claim that all the emails are forgeries becomes something only a crazy person could believe.

      And it's not like anybody could simply block this evidence so it is not public. It'll be out there for everyone to see, and any claim that the emails can't be vetted because they came from wikileaks will not be tolerated by the masses.

    11. Re:Chain of custody? Forensics? Anyone? by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      Police are careful to control evidence, but that's not because failing to do so automatically excludes it, it's just because it opens an avenue for the defense to question it.

      and because the police are generally required to have legally obtained their evidence. I'm sure you know that, but worth stating explicitly. The exclusionary rule is a bitch. Although it also probably would not save Clinton if this made it to trial.

      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
    12. Re:Chain of custody? Forensics? Anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Didn't some government agency investigate her email server? I guess they could choose not to submit it, but if the public outcry was enough to get some sort of legal action going, then they could verify the leaks.

    13. Re:Chain of custody? Forensics? Anyone? by swillden · · Score: 1

      Police are careful to control evidence, but that's not because failing to do so automatically excludes it, it's just because it opens an avenue for the defense to question it.

      and because the police are generally required to have legally obtained their evidence. I'm sure you know that, but worth stating explicitly. The exclusionary rule is a bitch. Although it also probably would not save Clinton if this made it to trial.

      That's true, but it's an orthogonal issue.

      Evidence can be legally obtained but with a poorly-managed chain of custody. That evidence will not be excluded, but the defense will probably be able to discredit it. The jury will see it, but won't trust it.

      Evidence that is obtained illegally will be excluded, so chain of custody is completely irrelevant. The jury will never see it.

      It's worth noting that the whole exclusionary rule is something invented out of whole cloth by the legal system. It isn't in the Constitution, wasn't part of the framers' plan and hasn't been created legislatively. The framers' theory was that evidence turned up by warrantless searches (for example) was perfectly valid, but in the absence of a warrant the searcher was subject to civil litigation for trespassing. A warrant was used to provide legal authority to trespass, so the fourth amendment specifies that warrants may not be issued except on probable cause. In that time the modern notion of police forces empowered to investigate crimes didn't really exist; investigations and collection of evidence were generally carried out by private citizens, and the threat of litigation was a good deterrent to excessive action.

      With the rise of professional police investigators, courts wanted to be able to immunize the police from prosecution, but that meant that police didn't have a reason to care about warrants at all. The exclusionary rule was the compromise. Personally, I think it's a bad one and that police should be personally prosecuted for breaking laws, but it's what we have.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  31. Speakign as a Brit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Speaking as a Brit I find it a total disgrace that someone like Hillary Clinton is even in the running to be the president of the USA.

    Sums up the total and utter corruption of US politics to me (and the rest of the world)

    1. Re:Speakign as a Brit by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      As an American, I find it a total disgrace that Margaret Thatcher could be elected PM. And that Charles could be next in line for the throne . . .

  32. Grudge against the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess he resents being stuck in the embassy over sex crimes.

  33. They Have the wrong criminal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Real culprit is the USAian Lying Mainstream media thought control service. They are the ones who are pushing these candidates that any sane rational (not brain washed person) would reject out of hand. But the thing is we are brain washed. We have a choice of a totally corrupt incompetent candidate fighting against a person of no discernible values who will make promises no sane person believes. I will leave it to you to decide which is which. But we are going to be voting for them because the media says these are our presidential choices.

    Stop attacking the symptoms and not the causes. Rather than saying trump | Hillary is evil. Say the CNN and Fox are evil. Turn off you TV and social media and move to a farm in Arizona or Vermont.

  34. Good news, if true; "finally" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's well passed time to shit or get off the pot on Clinton's emails.

  35. So Hillary wrongly backed Europe? by WindBourne · · Score: 2

    It was Europe that wanted the invasion. Hillary backed the wrong pony. And massage thinks that is indictable? He needs to show that she did that for personal gain. Or that she lied to make for personal gains. While I opposed Libya's invasion, the fact that she backed it is not a criminal act.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:So Hillary wrongly backed Europe? by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      It was Europe that wanted the invasion.

      Annnnnd? If the Saudis wanted some random shlub tortured to death, did that make it okay for Cheney to order it?

      the fact that she backed it is not a criminal act

      Both the U.S. Constitution and the U.N. Charter disagree with you.

    2. Re:So Hillary wrongly backed Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What invasion?

    3. Re:So Hillary wrongly backed Europe? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Please explain How does the US Constitution OR the U.N. Charter say that the secretary of state can not say that she thinks that we should go to war?
      If Hillary did not pull a W and lie and cheat on evidence, then she has done nothing illegal in any way.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    4. Re:So Hillary wrongly backed Europe? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Of Libya? That was italy and France that pushed O to help them. O wanted to follow what the DOD said which is that this was a HORRIBLE idea ( and they were right ).

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    5. Re:So Hillary wrongly backed Europe? by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Please explain How does the US Constitution OR the U.N. Charter say that the secretary of state can not say that she thinks that we should go to war?

      Don't be obtuse. Hillary is criticized for her actions as SOS, not using her 1st Amendment rights to say "hey I really like regime change".

      If Hillary did not pull a W and lie and cheat on evidence, then she has done nothing illegal in any way.

      The entirety of the case for war against Ghadaffi and Assad were based on lies. Both were targeted for overthrow long before Arab Spring.

  36. America Gets What It Deserves by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First Woman President? Big deal. First pre-indicted President.

    Not like she hasn't already built a throne of children's skulls, and a platform of war crimes, on from which to rule.

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
    1. Re:America Gets What It Deserves by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I thought that's a requirement now to be eligible for election?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:America Gets What It Deserves by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      IKR? Let's get outraged NOW about things first world leaders have been doing for centuries.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    3. Re:America Gets What It Deserves by OakDragon · · Score: 5, Funny

      I thought that's a requirement now to be eligible for election?

      The requirement has been reduced to skulls from any person regardless of age. I don't necessarily agree with it, but times change, you know.

    4. Re:America Gets What It Deserves by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      It's now or never...

      Really, why not now? How much longer should we wait?

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    5. Re:America Gets What It Deserves by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      First pre-indicted President.

      And the first pre-pardoned...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    6. Re: America Gets What It Deserves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because it's her turn to be president, obviously.

    7. Re:America Gets What It Deserves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the fuck kind of retarded backwards logic is that? Bad stuff should continue to happen... just because it's tradition?

      Fuck off.

    8. Re:America Gets What It Deserves by JeffOwl · · Score: 1

      If we don't get outraged now, when will we ever? We shouldn't be afraid to be the first to say "enough."

    9. Re:America Gets What It Deserves by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      Until you're no longer an empire.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    10. Re:America Gets What It Deserves by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Uhh, what? Are we for or against attempting to take corrective measures? I mean, even if it is entirely in a rhetorical manner, with no action actually being taken (god forbid)? Or, as they say, for the *sake of discussion*?

      IOW, could you rephrase, please?

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    11. Re: America Gets What It Deserves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, her support of drone attacks over carpet bombing and avoidance of putting "boots on the ground" have seriously limited her pile-o-skulls (adult or children)

      Trump probably has a larger pile of children's skulls from the lead paint in the slums that he inherited from his father, if only he could turn that into some sort of foreign policy

    12. Re:America Gets What It Deserves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, bad stuff will continue to happen because idiots will continue to attack the dominant 'empire' of the period because that is what idiots do

    13. Re:America Gets What It Deserves by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      ROFLAMO. I'm talking about Empire and you're talking about corrective measures. That's not how Empires fall.

      As for the other thing, clutching your pearls at metaphorical blood on hands is so quaint.

      One thing you precious, super-liberal snowflakes need to come to grips with is that civilization is a meat grinder. The only fundamental difference between say, The Third Reich and the Obama administration is number and orientation of the grist.

      So when you and your indigo brothers act all shocked at how your Empire is maintained, it makes me giggle.

      But then I remember that you probably wouldn't do much better if given the levers of that grinder (hell the odds are decent you'd make it worse), but that's never how you frame it, and that's disingenuous as fuck.

      There is no perfect world. Treating everyone you meet like a sheep or a traitor because they won't buy into that delusion is the worst kind of elitism.

      So fuck back off on your high horse. The rest of us are working here.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    14. Re:America Gets What It Deserves by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      The "empire" is us It is maintained by us. That includes you. You haven't told me anything I don't already know and are merely engaging in denial of your own role. And your accusations of "elitism" is quite the projection. "Working"... riiight! Damn, you almost sound like Hillary.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    15. Re:America Gets What It Deserves by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      he "empire" is us It is maintained by us. That includes you.

      Nope. I bailed on the developed world a while back. It's all yours.

      Thanks, again, for not even attempting to answer any of my points! Don't ever change.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    16. Re: America Gets What It Deserves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which war crimes? And I don't mean your rambling opinion - which crimes is she guilty of under the Geneva Convention? It's disrespectful to people whom actually had crimes of war committed against them to throw around such accusations if untrue. Yes I'm sure she's done politically unsavoury things, I'm not sure she'd make a good president, but I certainly don't see any clear cut case of anything that would lead to an indictment and successful conviction - especially no warm crimes.
      Either provide facts or get a little perspective, maybe read up on Slobodan Melosevic.

    17. Re:America Gets What It Deserves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even funnier is that ni this twisted world of spin, the hyper-liberal idea that we should have no blood on our hands is being spun by some right-wing troll who would probably be happy wading through the waist deep blood of their enemies

      They just pull on the liberal sheepskin when trying to put down Hillary so that their fascist dictator can get elected

    18. Re:America Gets What It Deserves by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      What "points" are you babbling about? You made none so far. You only repeat what I already know that the difference amongst them all is in degree, not character. So what? I'm not voting on degree, well, not entirely, I don't expect a lot or difference with the greens, but they're worth a try just to see what happens.

      Now, if you are truly, entirely self sufficient, more power! Does that mean you stopped voting also? You're still arguing from the tribalist's point of view.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    19. Re: America Gets What It Deserves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean before lead paint was banned? Piss off.

    20. Re: America Gets What It Deserves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I mean the lead paint that was never removed from tenements and that continues to poison poor people all over the eastern seaboard

    21. Re:America Gets What It Deserves by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      You're still arguing from the tribalist's point of view.

      This is coming from the guy who, in the other subthread sputters in rage when I make observations without attaching any personal value judgments whatsoever.

      I've given you so many ways out, and all you do is project, project, project.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    22. Re: America Gets What It Deserves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I mean the lead paint that was never removed from tenements and that continues to poison poor people all over the eastern seaboard

      Please cite a reference, otherwise "-1, Troll"

    23. Re: America Gets What It Deserves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes the US needs to get all those pesky foreign bases off its sovereign land ... no wait ... otherway round jerkwad.

    24. Re:America Gets What It Deserves by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      I make observations without attaching any personal value judgments whatsoever.

      Still waiting to hear these "observations". So far all you've expressed are value judgements.

      And this "rage"? Where? Why do you make things up?

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    25. Re:America Gets What It Deserves by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      So far all you've expressed are value judgements.

      The it should be trivial to quote them. I won't hold my breath.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    26. Re:America Gets What It Deserves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See The Onion, "Our Dumb Century": Cambodia to Switch to Skull-Based Economy

    27. Re:America Gets What It Deserves by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      I thought that's a requirement now to be eligible for election?

      That's a common misconception. You have to be crazy to run for Pres.

    28. Re:America Gets What It Deserves by mdmc · · Score: 1

      If the wheels of justice fail to indict her before her inauguration in January, she may be able to pre-pardon herself. Interestingly, this article was written about Mr Clinton in 1998. http://www.slate.com/articles/...

    29. Re:America Gets What It Deserves by Eponymous+Coward · · Score: 1

      First pre-indicted President.

      Can't she just pardon herself?

  37. Re:RT? Really?!? by jeff4747 · · Score: 2

    No, the Daily Mail has more journalistic integrity than RT.

  38. Weren't most of what they found... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dumped munitions or expired munitions that would have been more dangerous to the crews loading them than their intended targets?

    1. Re:Weren't most of what they found... by will_die · · Score: 1

      Nope. Working rockets, tanks filled with various gases(safe enough they moved them, stored them for a long time, then finally destroyed them), and tons of processed powdered concentrated uranium are just some of the things found. Others are known to have been sent off to other countries.

    2. Re: Weren't most of what they found... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't see why anyone shouldn't take your word for it.

    3. Re: Weren't most of what they found... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      You've been willfully ignorant for this long. Nobody expects you to change.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  39. Assange by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

    Ass or Angel?

    --
    Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    1. Re:Assange by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      Ass or Angel?

      Yes.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  40. Wile E Coyote by jlaprise1 · · Score: 1

    I'll believe it when I see it.

  41. Watch the latest reality TV show! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hillary and Billary: President and Former president and now First Lady of the white house. Because we just got through whitewashing both it and the candidates to get the brown out.

  42. Snopes says not true... by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 5, Informative

    Snopes says not true, to at least most of those: FALSE: Clinton Body Count.

  43. Clinton, Petraeus, Snowden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He thinks her criminality will actually matter. That's so charming.

    It matters as much as Petraeus' (compared with Snowden's).

  44. Paedo Parliament? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That seemed like an embarassment to me, especially with MI5/6 doing the coverup until they were all dead in exchange for political favors.

    But maybe that is less bad than our forms of political corruption.

  45. RT? Really? by nealric · · Score: 1

    If this is a true story, can't we have a link to a better source than RT, which is known to push conspiracy theories? In any event, if this story is true, I get the distinct impression that Assange doesn't have a clear idea of what U.S. laws actually prohibit.

    1. Re:RT? Really? by Tempest451 · · Score: 1

      I stopped as soon as I say it came from RT. RT makes Breitbart look impartial.

  46. Please don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't really care how much illegal stuff Hillary has done

    Trump is infinitely worse. Julian, please be a gentleman and at least wait until Hillary has been sworn in so Castro or Booker or whomever the running mate is can slide into office.

  47. Operating her mail server was not permitted. by zerofoo · · Score: 5, Informative

    The state department has said that her mail server was never authorized and would not have been permitted had she asked:

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/25/...

    She disregarded the Freedom of Information Act by keeping her official State Department communications on her server and therefore unavailable for retrieval and archiving as per FOIA.

    That's illegal - she broke the law simply by operating her own server.

    Security and the hacking of her server is irrelevant. Clinton stripping classified headers off of documents is irrelevant. Those charges, if proven, will simply add to her punishment (if there is any at all).

    In a just world, she would have already been convicted in a court of law. What we know she did, by her own admission, should be enough for criminal prosecution and should disqualify her from the presidency.

    1. Re:Operating her mail server was not permitted. by jeadly · · Score: 2

      I believe she also purgered herself a few times by submitting forms stating she had complied with the Federal Records Act both at the end of her service, and again 21 months later when she actually did submit half the emails. And those are just the mundane facts, nothing to do with what classified information may have leaked or why she wanted to hide her communications.

    2. Re:Operating her mail server was not permitted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and if elected the GOP will keep on at her until she dies.
      so elect DT and what do you get?
      IMHO, a meglamaniac who probably has a brain but it is smart enough not to engage with the mouth.
      A Dr Strangelove character if there ever was one.

      So who to choose? The lesser of two evils? Your choice not mine (sadly).
      but my God help the USA if you get DT. You certainly won't be a superpower when he's finished with you.

    3. Re: Operating her mail server was not permitted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nowhere in that article did the word "illegal" appear. She broke rules that were enacted the year she took office, which were rules previous secretaries would ALSO have broken, had said rules been put in place earlier.

      Further, the inspector wasnt even upset at the server; rather, the record keeping. Clinton maintains emails were retroactively classified; well, that should be pretty easy to determine, yeah? So why hasn't it been?

      She was a bone head, as were her predecessors, and she most certainly should have complied with the new rules, AND agree most probably assumed they didn't apply to her, but that's a far cry from illegal.

      It's time to either force the FBI/DOJ to make a decision or move on to more interesting topics.

  48. Why? by itomato · · Score: 2

    "The emails were made available in the form of thousands of PDFs by the US State Department as a result of a Freedom of Information Act request.

    1. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And Assange will turn them into indictable offenses with flights of the imagination and piles of money from the koch bros

    2. Re:Why? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      you left off "in heavily redacted form which may conceal the nature of intelligence and national security secrets that were completely mishandled under the appropriate laws and guidelines."

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
  49. it wuz haxx0rz! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Welp, she'll just have to lock all those "hacker" k1dz up when she's president, won't she?

  50. Lots of ignorance on this thread by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is it that non-lawyers insist on pretending to know the law.

    I strongly suspect the server broke several laws about regulation and handling of classified information. I think this based on what I know about handling of classified information from my military service. I don't KNOW anything because I don't have access to anything beyond published reports.

    Neither does anyone else commenting here so why fight about it.

  51. Subject of Comment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't say I agree with that assertion. When working for the State I was told that if I link my phone / tablet / whatever to my state given email address, which is part of the public record, then they have the right to access the device as well.

    1. Re:Subject of Comment by khallow · · Score: 1

      Well, why would Clinton push the State Department to demand to access her own device? Or at least do so before she had a chance to delete any incriminating emails?

  52. The codes she violated by anyaristow · · Score: 1

    none of it was per se illegal

    Copy-pasted from here:

    Title 18 of the U.S. Code of the Espionage Act in sections 793, 798 and 1001

    Section 793 applies to anyone who has been “entrusted” with information relating to the national defense. The law applies to a federal official who “through gross negligence permits” information “to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, to be lost, stolen, abstracted or destroyed.”

    Section 798 applies to any government official who “knowingly and willfully communicates” information “to an unauthorized person.” Section 1001 addresses giving “false statements.”

    Clinton and her aides also could be charged under section 1924, which is a misdemeanor. This was the April, 2015, charge former CIA Director David Petraeus negotiated with prosecutors for sharing classified information with a mistress who also served as his biographer.

  53. Truth or Fiction web site says not true. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 5, Informative

    The web site Truth or Fiction says not true.

    1. Re:Truth or Fiction web site says not true. by reboot246 · · Score: 1

      But they're all dead nonetheless. Curiosity must not be strong here.

    2. Re:Truth or Fiction web site says not true. by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But they're all dead nonetheless. Curiosity must not be strong here.

      What is the point of curiosity if it lacks the intelligence to discern correlation from causation?

    3. Re:Truth or Fiction web site says not true. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many people that I have known are now dead. Some of them died in strange ways.

      Curious about me yet?

    4. Re:Truth or Fiction web site says not true. by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Most people don't know that many people who have been murdered or who have died by suicide, if I had that many around me that meant those ends, the cops would be crawling up my ass with a microscope.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    5. Re:Truth or Fiction web site says not true. by skids · · Score: 1

      Most people don't know that many people who have been murdered or who have died by suicide

      Even if the list were accurate, "most people" don't know anywhere near the number of people the Clintons know, so it's a moot point, statistically.

    6. Re: Truth or Fiction web site says not true. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes I am... Hillary Clinton!!! You can't fool me Hillary!!!

  54. Facepalm by quantaman · · Score: 2

    Clinton's email controversy came to light in 2013 after a hacker named Guccifer breached her personal server.

    a) Guccifer exposed a handful of Clinton's emails by breaking into the email account of one of her friends and leaking the ones she sent him.

    b) The email controversy came to light because the Republicans trying to lynch her for Benghazi realized she sent all her emails through the private server.

    c) Guccifer's "hacking" involves guessing password reset questions and bragging about everything he finds. To think he not only "breached her personal server" but then kept his mouth shut about it and never dumped a thing is absurd.

    This is a damn tech site, certainly people can show some basic critical thinking skills and not just repeat the wild-ass claims of every wannabe hacker looking for notoriety.

    --
    I stole this Sig
  55. Actual Hillary Clinton fell dead in Washington DC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What you are seeing is a body double.

    Similar to Saddam Hussein abroad and Ari Fleischer in America. It's a huge lie.

  56. Re:Actual Hillary Clinton fell dead in Washington by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Notice the facial expressions on Bill and their daughter lately around Hillary-double? They can't act.

  57. Re:RT? Really?!? by quantaman · · Score: 1

    Not just that, but RT is a mouthpiece for the Kremlin, and Putin and Trump seem relatively friendly.

    I would be far from shocked if RT didn't have a directive to try and help Trump's campaign.

    --
    I stole this Sig
  58. Re:RT? Really?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You act like those "rags" are unique, most news sources these days are pawns of their parent government. Its pretty comical sometimes (or tragic depending your mood), you see a story on one news site and in roughly the same time frame you see it again and again with only cosmetic changes. A lot of "news" these days, especially at the national level is a government/law enforcement press release slightly tweaked from paper to paper with only a few changes/commentary.

  59. Assange? Assange? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So Julian Assange, a citizen of - well who cares - not the US, is such an expert on US law and high-level politics and intrigue that he knows he has information capable of indicting an ex high-level diplomat? Wow, not even many US citizens would know if the information was capable of doing that. Assange is apparently very well informed on the laws, legal proceedings, precedent, etc. from the US. What a guy. Apparently one potential criminal (Assange - who won't answer charges) knows another potential criminal?

  60. Drama-Queen Righties by Tablizer · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Peoples were literally being marked for death through her insecure email server.

    One of the biggest facts that right-wingers AVOID is that the State Department server was NO MORE SECURE than a commercial/private server, and in fact the State Dept. server was (eventually) hacked.

    One could argue that such messages should have been sent over the separate secure system (not email), but that's a DIFFERENT ISSUE than whether the "regular" office email system was more secure or not than her personal server.

    They were BOTH Chevy's, not Lexuses.

  61. I have that info, too ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    ... just as soon as I fabricate it.

    Let's all rush to Google® and look up the definitions of "provenance," and the concept of, "chain of custody."

    In court, defendants have a right to face their accusers.

    Wikileaks promises that it will not reveal its sources.

    We're all nerds here and some of you, like me, have hand-crafted emails that look perfectly real, including the header information.

    Great prank material, but certainly not admissible in court.

    NOTE: My interest is matters of digital law; not politics.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    1. Re:I have that info, too ... by ale2011 · · Score: 1

      It doesn't look as fabricated stuff, no geek-friendly header fields. Look at this, for example. It seems to be derived from an original pdf, which bears a 2015 date on it. However vulnerable Clinton's server, the documents seem to have leaked from state dept.

    2. Re:I have that info, too ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Your passive descriptions, " ... doesn't look as ... ," and "It seems ... ," " ... which bears a date ... ," ... the documents seem ... ," make my point, precisely.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  62. Wait, what? by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    I'm a Democrat, and I think there's been "enough evidence" available to indict her for quite some time.

    Seriously, what do they need, HD video of her snickering, "They'll never find these classified emails now, ha ha ha!" while she presses the Delete key again and again?

    If you or I had done this we'd already be serving time in a Federal prison.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  63. Lmao @ Guccifer Claims by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Guccifer email breach was reported by Fox News and never verified to be true. I'm sure this convicted hacker is telling the truth though. Couldn't possibly just be stirring the pot and trying make his name known.

  64. HUGE Libertarian opportunity by gosand · · Score: 1

    If ever there was an election to vote for a third party, it is this one. Keep an eye on Gary Johnson from the Libertarian party. While I don't agree with his stance on every issue, he seems really solid. Which I can't even fathom saying for anyone else in the running. Want to upset the current system? Don't let either side win. Maybe they will finally wake up.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

    1. Re:HUGE Libertarian opportunity by CauseBy · · Score: 1

      You might be a young'n, but we had "an election to vote for a third party", in fact we had it twice, and Perot lost both times.

      As it turns out, the two parties cover most Americans. That's the real reason we have them.

    2. Re:HUGE Libertarian opportunity by gosand · · Score: 1

      FYI, I was 22 when Perot ran the first time, so I absolutely remember him. I have never personally seen an election where the (presumptive) candidates were so awful. And I never ever considered Perot to be a viable option.

      Many times people choose sides because "the other side" is not what they want, or quite honestly because like religion - that is what they were taught growing up. I think our political system doesn't fit who we are anymore, or at least where we are headed. Some days I think our country is doomed, some days I have great hope for it. I think it's maturing pains. 240 years isn't very old in country-years. I think being neck-deep in the information age has an effect on that as well.

      --

      My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  65. SOURCE RT.com for Crying Out Loud? by retroworks · · Score: 1

    Slashdot now posts Kremlin "news"? The wikileaks article is nowhere nearly as specific as RT, mainly known for having English language newscasters quit on air live over being ordered to report false stories. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    --
    Gently reply
  66. Vote for Gary by tepples · · Score: 1

    The only reasonable scenario would be to find a third alternative, but good luck getting enough people to agree on one.

    Governor Gary Johnson is the only candidate in this election with experience in the executive branch.

    1. Re:Vote for Gary by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2

      Is the Department of State part of the legislative or judicial branch?

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    2. Re:Vote for Gary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Governor Gary Johnson is the only candidate in this election with experience in the executive branch.

      Is the Department of State part of the legislative or judicial branch?

      So can a janitor at the State Department can claim "experience in the executive branch"? If she can while the janitor cannot, is it because the president appointed her with Congressional approval, and if so, does that make federal judges also part of the executive branch? Where do you draw the line?

    3. Re:Vote for Gary by tepples · · Score: 1

      Touché. True, the Cabinet is part of the executive branch of the U.S. Government, and Secretary Clinton served in President Obama's Cabinet. But only Governor Johnson has served as the elected chief executive of a republican* government. Let me revise my sound bite.

      * "Republican" in the same sense as U.S. Constitution, Article IV, section 4, not to be confused with the similarly named party.

    4. Re:Vote for Gary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Executive branch

    5. Re:Vote for Gary by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      The day is still relatively young, but hopefully that's going to be the stupidest thing I see today. I hope it's all uphill from here.

      So can a janitor at the State Department can claim "experience in the executive branch"?

      Well, technically, I suppose they could, but it makes a shitload more sense if the goddamn Secretary of State is making the claim instead of you when you push a mop around.

      does that make federal judges also part of the executive branch?

      Are members of the judicial branch members of the executive branch? I don't know, what do you think, Constitutional Scholar AC?

      WTF are you arguing about? Is the Department of State part of the executive branch of the federal government or not? Is the Secretary of State who leads that department part of the executive branch? These are simple yes or not questions, they aren't trick questions at all. No need to bring up janitors or judges.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  67. 5 Ways Trump Mirrors Hitler's Rise to Power by tepples · · Score: 1

    People knew that Adolf Hitler was a violent demagogue (from his Hitler-Ludendorff-Putsch in 1923), but they absolutely refused to vote for the alternatives because they thought they had done something worse.

    Godwin's Law strike 1

    There are plenty more strikes against Trump where that came from. See Adam Tod Brown's article "5 Ways Donald Trump Perfectly Mirrors Hitler's Rise To Power".

    1. Re:5 Ways Trump Mirrors Hitler's Rise to Power by sabbede · · Score: 1

      Does Trump have a uniformed private army patrolling the streets and violently suppressing Democrat aligned organizations? No? Then not like Hitler.

  68. tl;dr (hypocrisy) by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    It's only an 'Imperial Presidency' when the party I hate does it.

  69. Fuck you, I voted L for 25 years by mpercy · · Score: 1

    I can bitch about R (and I bitched about W plenty) and D (so much to bitch about with Obama) all I want.

  70. I for one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, I for one welcome our new over-combing overlords.

    Never was that meme more apt... :-)

  71. What's he waiting for? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://i.imgflip.com/nsmwr.jpg

  72. Of course. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Politics and war are both built on a very firm foundation of pure deception.

  73. Assange says a lot of things by 91degrees · · Score: 1

    Assange is a serious self-publicist. He may well have this information, but him saying so isn't going to convince me.

    Just release the sodding data.

  74. Did Trump promise him something? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why does he care about Hilary so much all of a sudden.

  75. Overrode the Pentagon ... more like advised by stevez67 · · Score: 1

    Of course, that's why we have a civilian government. The Pentagon doesn't have the final say, the POTUS has the final say, as Commander-In-Chief, and relies on advice from his/her advisers one of which would be the SoS. Nothing here to prosecute, just some has-been news item trolling for another 15 minutes of fame because he's tired of Ecuadorean food.

  76. Guccifer claims... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Guccifer claimed he breached her server, there's no actual evidence of it. The Clinton server came to light after he breached the AOL and Yahoo accounts of people who she had been corresponding with by guessing weak security questions. He has no competence in attacking servers otherwise.

  77. Excactly my point by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    Tastycrats, Fingerlicans... NO DAMN DIFFERENCE. Both corporate whores, lock stock and barrelhead. Look behind the red meat and dog whistle curtains and see the same fake wizard blowing CEOs.

  78. ISIS took over Libya? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Could have sworn they were in Syria...

  79. Odd, but maybe explainable. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 2

    That's how it seems to me. On the other hand, people involved in politics have FAR more social contacts than others.

    1. Re:Odd, but maybe explainable. by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Having 4 people formerly on your Secret Service Presidential Protection Detail dying from friendly fire has got to be some kind of record.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  80. Is Tipping the FBIs Hand a Good Idea?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So if...
      He does think "the FBI can push for concessions from the new Clinton government in exchange for its lack of indictment." ...is giving the FBI more power vis-a-vis the President a good idea? Given what they obviously want, that could be bad news for TOR and encryption law generally.

    Leaking material evidence that would indict someone is honorable, sure, but this seems like it's throwing more chaos into the situation, with very unclear outcomes. And in a year where a megalomaniac barking yam is doing donuts all over the GOPs lawn and driving his racist bus tantalizingly close to actual power, is more chaos really a good idea? Asking for a friend. :>(

  81. The "ideal of America"... what is that to you? by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    My question to the American "patriots" is what happens when the ideal America you are patriotic about, is not the America you live in?

    You might ask which ideal of America while you're at it.

    The ideal of an America governed by a constitution that actually means what it meant when it was written, to be amended as needed? The ideal of an America where the constitution means only what it is convenient for it to mean today (the "living document" approach) where amendment is unworthy of the energy it would take and instead, the Supreme Court graciously redefines it on a moment-to-moment basis? The ideal of an America where everyone is (somehow, don't ask me how... genetics isn't that far along yet) is "created equal"? The ideal of a Christian America? The ideal of an America where personal liberty and informed, consensual choice form the basis for civilized behavior and law? The ideal of an America where "law and order" do, and should, reign supreme in a cascade from legislator to enforcement to retribution? The ideal of an America where immigrants are unwanted interlopers? The ideal of an America where immigrants are the foundation of highly desired diversity in thinking, action and resources? The ideal of an America where only its position in a global context mean anything good? The idea of an America where everyone is either rich, or a "temporarily disenfranchised millionaire"? Etc., etc., etc. I really could go on for a while. :)

    This is part (and only part) of our problem. Depending on just whose Kool-aid one decides to consume, pretty much everyone thinks they believe in "the" ideal of America, with very few even giving lip service to the fact that there are many such ideals. It makes for chaotic and spectacularly obtuse public discourse, and the only surprise I experience in that is that anyone with two wet brain cells to run together might be surprised by this end result.

    As for patriotism... a large number of people who I have discussed the matter with seem to be coming from a definite jingoist point of view, as opposed to a patriotic point of view. Most of them clearly think jingoism is patriotism. I find it appalling, personally, but it's just another "ideal of America" that has sunk it's roots in like an aggressive fungal infection.

    Then there is the fact that the rich and powerful almost entirely control our government. Without getting into an argument about when that became actual fact, I can confidently assert that as of now, it is well entrenched and no way to undo it has made itself obvious to the segment of the population that has actually noticed what has happened.

    I not only suspect chaos, I expect it. And what do you know, everywhere I look -- there it is. :/

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:The "ideal of America"... what is that to you? by Howitzer86 · · Score: 1

      Agreed. We all love America (or at least would prefer liking it rather than not), and we all have our ideals of what America should be, but we're poorly represented in either direction. Division on the civilian level keeps us from working together outside of narrow extremes, and the illusion of a choice gives the ruling class the safe space to pretend they have a mandate. But I see this election (or maybe one 4 years down the line) as potentially breaking that system, as the rivals will cry foul and refuse to accept the legitimacy of their opponent's victory outright.

      No matter who wins, we lose, and for a lot of us this is a new realization.

      In any case, domination is what you do when you win now. From the municipal level to the national level, you do everything you want regardless what your own people think or what the other half the country thinks, and you punish your rivals by taking away things they want. If you play along you're rewarded. Your opponents expect it and would behave no differently if given the chance.

      Net result is chaos and unmitigated cultural, economic, and infrastructure decay, which has a predictable result. Study up now, get your degree(s), and prepare to leave for greener pastures. The problem is bigger than any one person, and unless you're willing to fight for some fool to save something already lost (by that point), don't feel bad about abandoning a sinking ship.

  82. Yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Still waiting... Since 2012 the Republican House of Representatives have held 5 Select Committees on Benghazzi to investigate Hillary and her emails. They don't need the DoJ to indict someone for lying to Congress or contempt of Congress. They can fine people, put people in jail, etc.[^1] They could also appoint a Special Prosecutor[^2] at the DoJ, going around Loretta Lynch entirely. It's been done -- plenty of historical precedent. But they haven't. They would have if there were any substance to the allegations. But the emails are total $#!7 and the whole drama just an attempt to derail her campaign, because she beat Cruz, Kasich and Trump in all the polling they did.

    Don't get me wrong -- I don't like the 6!7# any more than I like Trump. Hope they both go to jail...along with Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Powell, Paulson, Wolfowitz, Kissinger, etc., etc. But I'm not holding my breath. I'm planning on moving to East Asia and living as a digital nomad, no matter who successfully rigs this election. But the email controversy is just another fake scandal that shows the kind of systematic dysfunction that's tearing the US apart and driving me out.

    [^1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress#Partial_list_of_those_held_in_contempt_since_1975

    [^2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_prosecutor

  83. Doesn't matter what she's done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hillary Clinton won't be indicted, no matter what the law says and no matter what she's done. Several lawyers in the DoJ have said they simply don't see any criminal behavior in the evidence. They won't ever, either. The investigation will be "expanded in scope" and "extended" to drag it out past November elections. If Hillary loses, Obama will grant her a blanket pardon, as Ford granted one to Nixon. If she wins, the investigation will continue to expand and extend until she's sworn in, then she'll get to do whatever she wants with the evidence. In either case, I'm sure the DoJ (not necessarily the FBI, but lawyers) will ensure that the evidence will be destroyed.

    Bill never said anything in an hour's speech worth a quarter much less a quarter of a million dollars. That money was paid for access to key State Department information they gave out through that server. Everybody in the world has seen those emails except American citizens.

  84. Gooby pls... by Mal-2 · · Score: 1

    Please, if you're going to do it, just do it already, while we still have another candidate in the race. Sandbagging just means the (D) ticket is dead in the water.

    --
    How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
  85. Implying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Implying that a prominent Democrat could ever be charged with a crime in the first place....

  86. Wait for it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ecuador - soon to find its common footing with US interests and mutual extradition treaties.

  87. Re:RT? Really?!? by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

    Maybe, but it's Assange claiming to have this data, and a Russian propaganda rag covering it. At the very least this a story about a claim Julian Assange is making that will turn out to be true or false.

  88. Well, let's see them! by 14erCleaner · · Score: 1

    That Guccifer guy was just blowing smoke - he got some emails from a recipient's outside account, not from Clinton's server. If Assange thinks these are so incriminating, they should be released ASAP.

    --
    Have you read my blog lately?
  89. Maybe Bernie has a chance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Keep 'em coming, Julian.

  90. Trump's un-informed private army by tepples · · Score: 1

    Does Trump have a uniformed private army patrolling the streets and violently suppressing Democrat aligned organizations?

    Replace "a uniformed" with "an uninformed" and the answer becomes yes. See "Donald Trump Encourages Violence At His Rallies. His Fans Are Listening." by Sam Stein and Dana Liebelson.

    1. Re:Trump's un-informed private army by sabbede · · Score: 1

      Points for clever wordplay, but it still doesn't line up. Encouraging his supporters to respond in kind to protesters at his rallies, while very much the wrong thing to do, doesn't approach what Mr. Moustache did. If Trump told his supporters to arm themselves and go to Clinton rallies and violently break them up, and then go smash her campaign offices, he'd be approaching that level.

  91. Assange = Trump troll by jgrossnas · · Score: 1

    Julie A was crying about how Google is all-in for Hillary and now this? And nothing about Trump, who surely has a light year long trail of illicit activities that still haven't been reported? Methinks he's on the Donald's payroll.

  92. Yawn... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure they will.

    I suppose Assange conveniently has nothing on Trump at all.

  93. Clinton Foundation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's plenty of indictable info in the public eye already in terms of illegal handling of classified materials.

    Supposedly, this new batch of wikileaks emails is from Russian hackers.

    So, here's hoping that it focuses on the pay-to-play government for profit that the Clintons have been running w/ their foundation.

  94. is it Concrete Evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    well as far as that does not stop her from winning the Presidential election.

    Serena Williams Hot!! as she steps out In a White Crop Top and black Tight Leather Jeans|CREEBHILLS'

  95. No such thing as a "classified-only email account" by GPS+Pilot · · Score: 1

    It's perfectly acceptable to send unclassified messages over SIPRNet or JWICS. There is a maximum level of classification authorized for every network; you can go lower, but you can't go higher.

    Things do get overclassified sometimes, but not for the bogus reason you gave.

    Regarding the notorious private server, even messages marked C (Confidential) were not authorized to be there.

    --
    That that is is that that that that is not is not.
  96. Asange is a weirdo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I like what Wikileaks did, but Asange is a petulant jerk. One would want him to be a more visionary person, but he's just a small-minded revenge doll.

  97. Do yourself, and the world, a favor... by martinfb · · Score: 1

    Do yourself, and the world, a favor: publish the Hillary-damning data ASAP - BEFORE the Democratic National Convention, with hopes that Hillary will not get selected as a candidate for president, so that we can get a far better leader into office (perhaps Bernie?!).

    --


    Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
  98. So much more to know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No one wants to talk about the real problem. 6+ billion stolen through an NYSE listed company to Israel and to Hillary, to her campaign.

    The evil in this world knows about it. They see it. And they match it with their own special brand of yin yang evil.

    Now its clear to everyone, OBAMA and HILLARY created the power path for ISIS. ISIS knows about the stealing, and very likely has pathways of their own to "get the money" Hillary style.....

    America needs to wake up. And grow up. Enough of this.