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ITT Tech Is Officially Closing (gizmodo.com)
Reader Joe_Dragon shares a Gizmodo report: ITT Technical Institute is officially closing all of its campuses following federal sanctions imposed against the company. The for-profit college announced the changes in a statement: "It is with profound regret that we must report that ITT Educational Services, Inc. will discontinue academic operations at all of its ITT Technical Institutes permanently after approximately 50 years of continuous service. With what we believe is a complete disregard by the U.S. Department of Education for due process to the company, hundreds of thousands of current students and alumni and more than 8,000 employees will be negatively affected."
ITT Tech announced it was closing all of its campuses just one week after it stopped enrolling students following a federal crackdown on for-profit colleges. ITT Tech and other higher education companies like it have been widely criticized for accepting billions of dollars in government grants and loans while failing to provide adequate job training for its students. Last year, ITT Tech received an estimated $580 million in federal money (aka taxpayer dollars), according to the Department of Education.
ITT Tech announced it was closing all of its campuses just one week after it stopped enrolling students following a federal crackdown on for-profit colleges. ITT Tech and other higher education companies like it have been widely criticized for accepting billions of dollars in government grants and loans while failing to provide adequate job training for its students. Last year, ITT Tech received an estimated $580 million in federal money (aka taxpayer dollars), according to the Department of Education.
Now if we could just get the balls to crack down on obvious corruption in other mainly government funded industries. Looking at you defense.
So when are the FEDs going to shut down the big Universities? $180,000 of student loans and NO JOB prospects ... They aren't being honest either.
Good, this company was worthless and everything they offered was worthless. Thanks for the degree! I really need it as a farking custodian...
Don't worry. The same people will have already started a new company, under a new name, which does exactly the same thing as the old company. Bonus points if they also have ITT Educational Services, Inc. sell all the trademarks for "ITT Technical Institutes" to the new company.
the growth in cynicism and rebellion has not been without cause
Now people can take a look at their local community college options without being distracted by ITT ads.
If the feds could arrange to move the the $580 billion to the community colleges to fund more technical programs, they might find they get value for money.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
We live in a society that does not value education at all, and these worthless for-profit colleges are a symptom of that. Most people go into higher education primarily for "job training" and money, instead of doing so because they are deeply passionate about the field of their choosing. For those who want a truly good education, getting one is often prohibitively expensive because essentially only the best-of-the-best schools offer it. This problem is made worse by lazy, ignorant, unprincipled, and short-sighted employers requiring an ever-increasing amount of credentials for every job in existence; that just leads to more demand from the ignorant masses for "job training" from colleges and universities, and many of those institutions gladly step up to take their money.
Colleges and universities should not be about job training. That's what trade schools are for.
I have talked to numerous students about ITT Tech and they all say the same thing. "They treat you like a number and only care about your money". They don't care if you get a good education or not.
That there are numerous articles online written by professional journalists who have taken the Dept of Education to task for this, Slashdot uses the Gizmodo article written by a "blogger" who apparently doesn't do any fact checking.
Taps is playing for the web - it was brought down by amateurs.
How much money goes to the favored public and private institutions from the federal government? There are plenty of worthless degrees you can get at any institution. None of their promises of employment or employment at a particular wage are worth anything.
Why is it all right to go after the technical schools and not go after everybody else?
They should just stop the funding and let all the colleges adapt. The more they've subsidized students costs of attending, the higher the tuition has been priced. Just stop already.
Thousands fewer paper MCSEs and generally unqualified "techs" in the field.
Same scam, different label..
>> received an estimated $580 million in federal money (aka taxpayer dollars)
Heh - as if what we paid came close to what the Feds spent. If you're going to use snide-ness, why not try "a.k.a. yet more debt"?
On the other hand, where do you think all those "job training" dollars that a lot of people keep demanding go? The Feds feel pressured to spend them on...well...something...regardless of actual results.
It would be great if the Department of Education would impose the same scrutiny on the so-called non-profit state and private colleges...
Ken
devry or university of phoenix ms hill?
I had a friend that worked at the office of one of these campuses. She told me that 99% of the time they didn't even have a teacher for the class until the day before it started, let alone lesson plans or anything else. She quit after the second FBI raid and never looked back.
"permanently after approximately 50 years of continuous service. "
Should be:
"permanently after approximately 50 years of ripping off the American taxpayer and tricking it's so called students"
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
Having gone to ITT Tech AND then having gone to get my BSEE from an accredited university I can say without doubt those schools are designed to let you pass with a minimum amount of effort. HOWEVER, you CAN get a tremendous amount of knowledge IF you step up to do the extra work, which is what I did. That being said if you are willing to step up and be that self motivated to do that much work then it's no harder to go to a normal uni and getting a real degree.. which I did 2 years after going to ITT tech.. it was an expensive waste of time and energy that would have been better put to something else.... like a real degree. I did find the first few years of EE classes pretty easy due to what I had previously learned... but the path I took mistakenly took is not one I would recommend for others.. It REALLY wasn't worth it in time or money.
good riddance.
I was a student there. That was the best 7 years of my life -- good friends, better drugs, best sex. I'd drink a red bull and viagra on Friday afternoon and fuck 10-15 dudes before Monday came around. I'm working as a fullstack junior web engineer at a SF startup so there's just as much, if not more, sex, but I miss the drugs and friends. Skipping work because I'm hungover isn't quite the same as skipping class because I'm hungover.
I plan on doing my own startup in a couple months, once I get a cofounder, raise a series A and find an idea. I wouldn't be here without ITT so this is a little sad for me :(
As an Employee out in the world, I would have to have some fear now if I held an ITT Tech Degree if my Employer would now scrutinize and review my placement in the company. I am sure most level headed Employers will still look at their actual performance, but I'm sure some man/woman out there in a position of power will look at this as a legitimate way to "trim the fat" Course I have to wonder how ITT Tech compares to the H-1B Contract people in terms of knowledge.
I'm sorry but state colleges give garbage degrees. My brother just graduated from the University of Maine degree with a liberal arts degree and is sweeping floors at a gas station. Most schools offer shit degrees, and shit people take shit degrees. Then they end up with a shit load of debt and a shitty life. It's the cycle of shit.
The problem is that we loan them our money, so they can be stupid shits and continue the cycle of shit. This shit needs to stop.
Where else can I go and do very little and get a degree that no-one takes seriously if they close down ITT Tech.
Thank goodness I still have the University of Phoenix to go to.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
In the form of federal grants? GI Bill Tuition payments? Or, the most likely form, as federally guaranteed student loans - which aren't really "taxpayer dollars" until the student fails to pay their loan payments.
Ken
devry & ITT used to be good. But collage for all push made it so you needed an degree so they kind of got roped into the degree system. Now for real good accreditation you needed the full load of filler and fluff with I think masters or higher / phd level professors.
Now unlike the trade schools the professor at the collages they for the most part have little to no real world work experience (out side of the ivy tower)
https://www.dslreports.com/for...
I used to know an Programer who went to an state school got an job and I used some of the stuff he worked and it was very buggy so he did not last to long and got fired / forced to quit and then moved back home. I am not in QA or work for the place he worked at but some of issues where like how that did get passed testing / qa?
I know ITT Tech and other for-profit schools fill a gap in the education system, but this whole sector seems perfectly positioned to scam uneducated people out of student loan money, VA benefits, trade adjustment benefits, etc. and give them very little in return.
The vast majority of potential students would be much better served going to community college, or if they're in a strong union state, joining a trade's apprenticeship program and actually getting paid while learning.
There should be a simple rule, NO federal loans going to FOR PROFIT institutions. It does not make sense to give out federal loans to institutions that exist mainly to make money out of their students.
my god man. what skool did you's go to for lerning to spelling?
I want to make damn sure my kids do not land in the same place!
People now have no excuse to choose to go into debt to attend one of these places. If there are still people open to a pitch like this, what else can be done? Sure, go after the colleges but they're like moles. It's buyer beware and take some responsibility. Frankly, I would choose a state university or community college or some other option that enables you to get a decent education without too much debt. It's not worth the crazy debt levels and everyone should now know that the for profit college space is more than a bit sketchy.
So when are the FEDs going to shut down the big Universities? $180,000 of student loans and NO JOB prospects ... They aren't being honest either.
You do realize that you don't have to go to an expensive private university, right? Anyway if I go get a Harvard degree it will cost me a lot of money but I will in all likelihood have gotten an actual education along the way. You can argue that it isn't a good deal financially but you do get something at the end of the day. If you can't turn a Harvard degree into some sort of job you're doing it wrong. Comparing Harvard to or even a state university to ITT Tech is ridiculous.
Companies like ITT (I don't really think of them as schools) basically provide a near worthless degree which nobody respects and doesn't open doors. They do so knowing that a large percentage of their customers (students) will fail out. They exist to load credulous low income people with debt while failing to provide them a real education. They prey on people who probably really aren't the sort of people who are college material in the first place. College is great but it isn't the right path for everyone. Trade schools would serve many of them much better and there is a clear need for skilled trades.
Back in 78 I tried to hire some girl that went to ITT for computer repair
She had all A's and letters from her teachers
Girl could not even draw a truth table for a NAND gate
The federal government is helping people understand where the good schools are !
Just like the IRS is helping people choose political parties.
Just like the DHS is helping the outcome of the next election.
Just like NASA is helping reach out to muslims.
Just like the EPA has been helping write laws without Congress, and helping to "crucify" people who don't comply with them.
Just like the state department is helping people who donated to the right campaigns. And Chris Stevens.
You might think it would help to shut down the atrocities at PUBLIC schools (rapes, drugs, teachers who don't care, etc), but you would be wrong. Just helping with some naked assertions.
So thank the federal government for all the new kinds of help they have extended to us over the last 8 years. I feel like we are just beginning to learn how much help they can provide!
But a degree in Liberal Arts won't get me me a high paying job
Basically nobody has a degree in Liberal Arts. Liberal arts is a group of subjects which includes many of the the STEM fields. If you have a degree in Physics you have a liberal arts degree. Same with Mathematics, Chemistry, Earth Sciences, Biology, plus of course Languages, Literature, Psychology, Philosophy, Social Sciences, Arts, and more.
Some liberal arts degrees are more valuable to employers than others but saying that liberal arts as a whole = no jobs is to misunderstand the term.
They have done nothing but pump out people completely ill prepared for the real world. Worked with 2 different people who went to ITT at my past job, they didn't even know how to use the software they were being "taught". ITT is and was a joke.
"We live in a society that does not value education at all,"
1) We have a society that effectively mandates education for a minimum of 12 years
2) We spend more per pupil than any country in the world to educate people
3) The subsidies to universities number in the hundreds billions of dollars
4) We encourage everyone to go to college. Everyone.
If you're whining that you don't get college for free, keep in mind that if you lived in a society that pays for "free" college, the admission standards for college would have to be raised so that only the 10% of the smartest people are allowed to go to college.
You would likely be excluded from any sort of higher education based on your complete lack of ability to even articulate a problem properly.
So what about all of the universities that operate with the same motives? I happen to know that the drive to get more Adjunct
Faculty is money/profit driven. As are all of the fees ( Parking, meals, activity, recreational, computer, lab, etc... ).
They scream for tuition and fee hikes while having billions of endowments and holdings...
Graduate students are used as cheap intellectual laborers...
Most Universities ask a job applicant (technical only, in my experience ) "How much money can you bring in?"
Research money pays a lot of bills...
So, in my opinion, most universities have shifted from behaving like educational institutions to behaving like corporations.....
This is a big mistake. Really Big.
But the world will go on, and after the excrement structure falls apart, small conclaves of educators will begin rebuilding
education from the rubble left.
So when are the FEDs going to shut down the big Universities? $180,000 of student loans and NO JOB prospects ... They aren't being honest either.
The goal of a university education, at least at the undergrad level, is not be "job training". If it is being advertised as such, that is dishonest.
Just before the dot com collapse of the last century, I was just getting started with a couple years of freelance PC tech stuff and minor web design under my belt as I worked my way up the business desktop support chain at Gateway dreaming of more challenging things. These "schools" were hot stuff then. I foolishly decided to go for it. I don't remember the name of the place, although a lady friend of mine I met there insists to this day it was a satellite office for Stanford University. Needless to say it is not, she does not work in IT, and the school went poof shortly thereafter.
As a testament to their teaching, in the Linux class, I had to show the instructor how to compile source code and so on. By the time I was thinking about calling quits, it was obvious that I was now effectively teaching the more general A+, Network, 50+ student class. The day before an open note test, the lady mentioned above asked to xerox my notes. When I came in the next day, every last student had a copy of my notes. Why? Because they had zero confidence. I walked right out.
So now I am just reminiscing but you get the idea.
Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
Part of the problem is that there's a push to put as many high school students into college (even 2-year college) as possible, even those who would be better served going to vocational schools.
I could not agree more. I have a staff full of people who are definitely not college material but would be (and are) served well by a vocational education. There is always a need for skilled trades, welders, machinists, etc. Trying to turn everyone into a computer programmers regardless of aptitude is just idiotic and counterproductive. Not to mention costly.
Protip: You can't outsource blue collar work.
Care to wager on that? Ask the folks who work the assembly lines in Detroit if blue collar work cannot be outsourced. There are plenty of blue collar jobs that are very vulnerable to outsourcing when you live in a place with high labor costs like the US.
"ITT Tech received an estimated $580 million in federal money (aka taxpayer dollars),"
The wording in the article and summary make it sound like government just wrote them a check. Wrong. The school received the money because its students, like 70+% of the rest of the students in the country, are taking government loans and grants to pay for their schooling.
Too bad the story wasn't about the Department of Education closing its doors forever.
Harverd
> devry & ITT used to be good
I can see exactly why you'd think that just from the quality of your own writing.
I was considering applying to be faculty at ITT. I figured at this point in my career if I can no longer be part of the solution I might as well be part of the problem, right? I'll have to find a different for-profit college to go after instead.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
What part of "ITT Technical Institute" makes you think that you're not going into a program that's functionally at the trade school level?
Perhaps because they don't advertise themselves as being a trade school? Or because they aren't one. ITT Tech advertises having 6 schools. Please point out which one is the trade school:
School of Electronics Technology
School of Drafting and Design
School of Information Technology
School of Business
School of Criminal Justice
Breckinridge School of Nursing and Health Sciences
Not one of those except maybe nursing is fairly described as a trade school. No cooking, welding, plumbing, carpentry, machining, or anything else that you would normally find in a trade school.
People are ragging on "for-profit colleges" as some hideous evil, but whatever your experiences with Brightpoint, Ashford, or some other trendy places, ITT and Coleman have been around forever and shouldn't be lumped together with these.
I've actually lectured at an ITT Tech school. Yes they absolutely should be lumped together with the rest of the the scumbags. They take a lot of money and provide little in return to a lot of people who often don't know any better.
I taught at RETS ( a standardized electronics school with canned lesson plans and specific lab work - actually pretty good for electronics. ) before it was bought out by Virginia College.... the trend was to shift to student loans and grants.
When more than one person at any school mentions applying for federal money, take it as a warning sign.
You know, the for-profit university system that paid Bill Clinton $16 million "while Hillary Clinton’s State Dept. pumped at least $55 million to a group run by Laureate’s founder and chairman, Douglas Becker, a man with strong ties to the Clinton Global Initiative."
Tell me about it. Mine really didn't even get me an "industry" job, except in the looses sense. Trying to get them forgiven but that's an even bigger minefield which involves the IRS. Overall I have a strong feeling when the education bubble collapses there's going to be a big mess for decades to come, and a lot of schools and students are going to be hurting, because education will no longer be seen as a way to improve oneself, or society, but as a burden to be avoided at all costs.
Nobody cares where you went to U, unless it was Phoenix, ITT, or Devry.
You could go to podunk U, and still get hired.
Then again, in the great white North, Schools are nationally accredited for engineering programs.
Unlike the US of Eh, where schools can be accredited by the 3rd street accreditation board, comprised of people from that street, on that school district.
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2016/08/21/student-debt-can-balloon-with-little-notice.html#
"Student debt can balloon with little notice "
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/28/hedge-funds-puerto-rico-close-schools-fire-teachers-pay-us-back
"Hedge funds tell Puerto Rico: lay off teachers and close schools to pay us back"
In the Engineering schools it is almost unheard of for a professor to not have at least 5 years in industry. Long and old tradition.
But that is engineering, CS is different.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Don't let the door hit you in the a** on the way out!
Good riddance.
This will end one of the major sources of hacky/bad programmers.
So you want free labor?
Germany has a good apprenticeship system that mixes real paid work with a trade school like classroom. That is what is needed in the USA and not years of pure class room at an high cost.
It's not a good sign when in the first week you find out your Electronics instructor's work experience amounts to Laser tech in the military and former cop in CA. It's even worse when he spends way too much time making jokes about "Siemens" (as in conductance).
Sorry not sorry, fuckers.
In a world of the blind, the one-eyed man is king--and the two-eyed man is a heretic.
So you want free labor?
There are such things as paid internships.
Besides that, a good internship should provide experience that is actually valuable and this a worthy investment of the intern's time. I assume this is why it was proposed as an alternative to college (which doesn't generally pay students either).
In terms of preparing students to find a well-matched career, I think that internships are a good idea. Certainly better than the bastardization of liberal arts education into "job training".
Yeah like a nice mcse in mouse click systems engineering. Haha that is a joke in certification and something to be ashamed of getting outside HR as managers filter those out.
CCNA are even worse. Do they even know what a vlan is?
Certs therefore are not the reason either
http://saveie6.com/
No, but the pay cap is about $8-10/hour and it can't fund healthcare benefits. Paying $15/hour when investing so much in a person (18-20 year old child) just doesn't work. Honestly, I would prefer to pay $5/hour plus pay for some formal courses for them to take (of our choosing).
There is a way to do it, but it takes a lot of paperwork and you need to prove they aren't doing billable work or something. It ends up being more community service than anything-- which I don't really object to, but there isn't much in the way of a business benefit.
most internships I found were not paid or below min. wage. and they wanted 40hrs a week and you were not allowed to work another job. kinda made it hard to try when i was living on my own with roommates and was unable to move back home. I had a coworker lose his internship because they found out he was working part time at another job so he could pay rent and have food, since it was a unpaid internship. I would of loved to have been able to have done a internship though. hear they are really helpful if you do them when your just out of high school.
Germany has it right they divert people into trades schools and do not push for college for all. The real killer is the lack IT / TECH apprenticeships as it's more trade like. also the must have an degree and then the you went to X tech school = passed over BY HR.
Then the tech schools did poorly on the degree part leading to the HR that went to an real school and likely had an 4 year party to not like people who where not able to cut it an real school. Even when the tech schools are way more hands on and tech real work place skills vs lot's of theory. I have seen HR say we want an CS degree and not an IT / MIS / etc one for IT admin rolls. It very school to school but some CS ones are very theory loaded.
that is why an apprenticeship system is needed and gov can take that grant / loan funds to fund it. But not the big corps want the locked to job H1B's that they can unpay and work 60-80 hours.
Say you pay $5/hr and grant covers other costs / the student has to cover their class room costs and you can kick in if you want to.
You do realize that you don't have to go to an expensive private university, right?
I agree in principle, but its not that simple. I'm in the Pittsburgh region, and there is no cheap public option for 4 year degrees. University of Pittsburgh and Penn State are private-public hybrids with high tuition even for in-state students (starting at $20k, more on if you need room/board, etc.). Carnegie Mellon is extremely expensive private university. We have a few smaller private universities that are also expensive liberal arts schools: Carlow, La Roche, etc. Even the small Point Park University in the city is $27k per year and I'm pretty sure its private too. There's NO public city/state university with ~$5k tuition as other regions/states have, they all cost as much as an average private school. If you try to go to a cheap out of state school, you pay out of state tuition which is -- surprise! -- much more expensive and unaffordable. If you live here, you have to be relatively rich (expect ~$100k student debt when done, at least), or you don't go to college. (Well, there is community college but that isn't sufficient if you are pursuing a career like engineering that requires 4 year degrees).
Only recently did they start the "Pittsburgh Promise" to help pay tuition for residents, but that only applies to people that live within the city proper as far as I know. If you live in metro area but outside the city, you still don't get any help (If someone knows more, please feel free to correct me; I would love for their to be a good public option for everyone that I can refer people to. But as far as I can tell, students that grow up here are screwed unless the qualify for federal aid, but even a modest income disqualifies you for most aid. You pretty much have to be minimum wage to get it, and even then Pell Grants are capped at I believe ~$6k per year so wouldn't cover most of your tuition anyway).
They and devry used to be good & they had night school as well (now days a lot of the big schools do not really like to have night / adult education)
community colleges are very hit or miss on what class they offer / have trades / tech class. Some even let you take tech school like class as dropin / non degree track needed.
And those were great 19th & 20th century trades
They're still great trades today. If you think otherwise you don't understand them. A good welder or CNC mill operator can make a very decent living in the US. I'd be happy to introduce you to more of them than you care to know. A good skilled tradesman who works hard and hustles a bit can make a six figure income. I have some plumber and electrician friends who make very comfortable livings, albeit with substantial hard work.
The 21st century trades are IT, networking, programmers, etc.
If your point is that some of those things have become important jobs then you are correct although only to a point. If your point is that we no longer have a need for welders and machinists and plumbers then you couldn't be more wrong.
There needs to be an badges system to fill the gaps in the overall system and it needs to fix the real issues without the all of the other stuff that dragged down ITT and the other tech schools.
The coder boot camps seam to be acting a lot like ITT and others with the employment numbers and right now are at where devry & ITT used to be. But there cost is an little high and unlike devry & ITT you don't even get an degree.
Why can't there be an badges system that add up to an degree?
Community college where your 2 year degree = full credit at any 4 year school for at least 2 years?
The coder boot camps seem to get the idea that all stuff can fit into the old 2/4/6+ year system.
Hillarys donors from Riad do that. What makes you think Hillary and her corrupt 1% bunch will not implement the same policies in America ?
Rich people always look for slaves and they despise rich people who say the truth about rich people.
Your ilk does not get it until it is too late.
sounds like some university's that tech out the book and have the same type of errors,
Hillary and her friends will rather let some folks pay themselves 5 millions of bonus per year, then after a couple of years rescue their institution for hundreds of billions.
YOU are the "Minions", you are useless in their eyes and the best they can do with you is to use you as slaves, optimally by means of debt slavery.
This all works because you and your fellow minions consume their Hollywood propaganda like the burgers and the sugar water.
shutdown the mitt romney backed full sail university!
Some smart people of the finance industry can effectively suck off this persons income above the mcd level forever. Just sell the debt to someone who can then charge 20% interest or the like.
As long as you folks let yourself be bullshitted by them not to vote Trump, this will all get worse. Much worse.
Since at least the 1990s (when I first became aware of them). Basically the modus operandi is you found a school in some field where students can get college loans, preferably government-backed since a lot of the students aren't very credit-worthy. The students apply and are accepted into your school, pay their tuition with government or government-guaranteed student loans, and you "educate" them in the promised field. Net effect is you get the loan money, student gets the debt, and the government is on the hook for any debt the students can't pay back. You're effectively using the students to launder the money you're receiving from the government (they are listed as the recipient, not you).
The problem is this is the exact same MO as a legit school. There are supposed to be accrediting organizations which audit the schools' programs and confirm that they are legitimately teaching students marketable skills. But some of these accrediting organizations aren't very good and should've been removed from the authorized list decades ago. Basically the same problem that led to the housing bubble - the bond credit rating agencies which were supposed to investigate mortgage-backed investments (because the average investor/student has nowhere near the resources or skill necessary for a through investigation) shirked their duties and just rubber stamped them as low-risk when they were anything but.
It's ok to put a high-performance engine into your car. But you damn well better be sure the instruments and gauges monitoring that engine are working properly, lest it blow up on you.
http://gizmodo.com/itt-is-offi...
And nothing of value was lost.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
From the number of commercials ITT Tech had on television last year, my guess would be that they spent all that Federal money on ads.
I'm glad I won't have to watch any more of their inane commercials.
Most students were not prepared to enter such a fast-paced and terrible environment, and did poorly.
Isn't that true of most college students though? Quite lot do poorly in the first year, even at "real" colleges.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I wasn't cut out for collage, it was too fast paste so I didn't stick with it.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
There are few 'production' machinists these days. I remember rooms full of lathes being operated by ex-cons producing the same part over and over. Not that's all CNC.
No it is most definitely not all CNC. I deal with machine shops and production metal fabrication all the time. While CNC is heavily utilized there still are plenty of old machines that don't have a computer of any sort still in use. Many of these are skilled labor jobs too. My father-in-law owns a company that has about 40 presses and machines of various sorts and only a handful of them are computer controlled in any way. I routinely go into plants that have machines that predate WWII which are still spitting out plenty of parts. No CNC machine is going to replace them in the foreseeable future either.
But you still need prototype machinists. If you want 1 relatively simple thing made right away, there is unlikely to be a faster way than a machinist on manual machines.
Depends on what you are making but as a general proposition there is truth in what you say. However the implication that there is no need for production machinists in a country like the US with high wages is simply untrue and demonstrably so.
While that's true, there are only a few prototypes made for each product. What of all the machinists who used to crank out production parts? Those jobs are gone forever...
News of the death of machinists is greatly exaggerated. Even in high wage areas. According to BLS statistics there are approximately 400,000 machinists in the US. While that is a far cry on a percentage basis from days of yore, there still is steady demand and it isn't going to go away any time soon. Manufacturing has become a little like farming. The percent of the workforce directly involved has decreased as productivity has increased but the same jobs still exist and there still is substantial employment opportunity.
Manufacturing is almost all CNC now, and consumer products are either non-repairable or last longer than they used to.
It is untrue that manufacturing is all CNC. It's not even close to all CNC. I am in metal fabrication plants on a routine basis and there are plenty of plants with numerous machines without any computer controls at all. People who think everything in manufacturing is computerized are almost invariably people who don't work in manufacturing. CNC is widespread and important but it has not and will not eliminate all non-CNC manufacturing any time soon. I've worked a plant with 50 turret lathes that date from around WWII - still going strong today. No CNC machine is going to drive them out any time soon for economic reasons if nothing else because CNC is expensive.
Anecdotally, my father in law has an entire plant filled with machines that require skilled operators. Most of the machines he owns are older than most of the people reading this, myself included. He has CNC machines too but they aren't universal like you are implying. In my plant roughly half our presses are computer controlled and the other half aren't. We aren't going to replace the non-computerized presses either - they are built like tanks, are fully depreciated, easy to repair, and work great for numerous applications. It would be economically stupid to replace them.
Even in places where there are CNC machines you still need a skilled machinist in most cases. CNC machines are not plug and play and you need people who understand fabrication to get the most out of them, set them up, diagnose problems, etc.
Now unlike the trade schools the professor at the collages they for the most part have little to no real world work experience (out side of the ivy tower)
Depends on the school. The University I went to was not a research school and had a fair amount of professors who had worked in industry and encouraged professors to take sabbaticals for a year or two to go and work in industry as well as bringing in professors who had recently retired from industry to teach. My father-in-law did the latter after retiring from working in the semiconductor and taught several courses over the next 7 years doing it part time as did a number of others. There were some professors who did do research as well but even they were accessible to undergrads unlike the ones at a standard research university.
Time to offend someone
At my old job, the "manager" who stood between everyone and getting a raise was the ass kissing best friend of the Information Technology VP.
He was even better than an ITT grad: he was an almost ITT grad, left before completing his program.
I hear he's now currently a Director. I may call him up and hassle him about this.
Lack of diversity and sensitivity training courses.
Tracy Johnson
Old fashioned text games hosted below:
http://empire.openmpe.com/
BT
If he wants to take on debt so he can spend four years on poetry or Russian literature or on women's studies, that's his business, and HIS debt
If the leftists who want to make public universities "free" get their way, it will no longer be his debt. His education will be paid for by the taxpayers who didn't choose garbage majors.
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
First of all, I hardly doubt you are a professor! Your grammar sounds like someone who didn't even graduate high school!!! If you are going to post a statement or opinion and expect people to believe you are an educator of any status, please try to form complete and educated sentences. And second, DO NOT expect anyone to take you seriously as a "professor" when you post "anonymously." If you truly are a teacher of any kind and this post reflects the level of your grammar skills, then perhaps you are exactly one of the reasons our education system is failing and for lack of better words, has "dumbed down" our society and younger generations. Proof read before clicking the submit button!
This story made me happy. My parents pressured me into enrolling when I was fresh eighteen, and I was burned out after one year and dropped out. I liked the education and was all about electronics, but I had never held a job before then, and should have gone that direction instead. What followed was mostly twenty years of working in different places and moving on when the Department of Education would catch up to me. I should have bankrupted myself out of it before they created that lovely exemption for student loans when I had the chance.
Oh well, I lived, learned, and found work that paid well enough to let them siphon my hard-earned money for almost a decade while barely getting by. Three years ago it finally ended and I no longer had to be creative with my taxes so I was always paying $10-$50 at the end of the year so they had nothing to garnish beyond my paycheck. At that point, I bought a van. The cost of payments, insurance, and gas was equal to the price of a monthly bus pass and what they were taking out of my paychecks. My last van payment will be next March, and I plan to celebrate and start building my bank account faster than ever with an eye towards using my electronics and programming knowledge to become self-employed.
While much of this was my own fault, ITT still robbed me of a good portion of my life. I'm glad to see them go, and maybe more stories like mine will make the next generation think twice before getting trapped in a student loan. Looking back, working and paying for college is a smart thing to do, but going in the direction of Entrepreneurship is even better. There will always be a limit to how much money you can make if you're working for someone else. There are no guarantees, but there is always the possibility of raking it in with the right product or service, and the education needed to run a business doesn't have to be expensive. What good is being a lawyer if you're paying thousands every month for your education until you're in your sixties?
"The only legitimate use of a computer is to play games." - Eugene Jarvis
When I took the MSCE in 2000, you had to know (among many other subject) how to super and subnet a network segment. Like actually how to do the math and figure out the broadcast and network addresses, and what the subnet mask should be.
I don't think you know what the MCSE ever took to achieve, as it is far more in depth than you would expect.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
For whatever reason--culture of the field or low cost to tinker around--CS is an area where you find some a large number of amazing people who were largely self-taught, often at a young age. In my university, CS is pretty much the only department that would hire undergrads to be teaching fellows.