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'Extreme Vetting' Would Require Visitors To US To Share Contacts, Passwords (theguardian.com)
According to the Wall Street Journal, the Trump administration is considering whether or not to deploy "extreme vetting" practices at airports around the world, which could force tourists from Britain and other countries visiting the U.S. to reveal their mobile phone contacts, social media passwords and financial data. "Travelers who want to enter the U.S. could also face questioning over their ideology, as Washington moves away from a default position of allowing people in to a more skeptical approach to visitors," reports The Guardian. From the report: Trump made the "extreme vetting" of foreign nationals to combat terrorism a major theme of his presidential election campaign. But his executive order imposing a travel ban on several Muslim-majority countries has twice been blocked in court. Media reports suggest it has already hurt the tourism industry. The changes might include visitors from the 38 countries -- the UK, France, Australia and Japan among them -- that participate in the visa waiver program, which requires adherence to strict U.S. standards in data sharing, passport control and other factors, one senior official told the Journal. This could require people to hand over their phones so officials can study their stored contacts and possibly other information. The aim is to "figure out who you are communicating with," a senior Department of Homeland Security official was quoted as saying. "What you can get on the average person's phone can be invaluable." A second change would ask applicants for their social media handles and passwords, so that officials could see information posted privately in addition to public posts, the Journal said. The Journal report said the DHS official working on the review said questions under consideration included whether visa applicants believe in so-called honor killings, how they view the treatment of women in society, whether they value the "sanctity of human life" and who they view as a legitimate target in a military operation.
The USA has lost its damn mind.
People will just stop coming to the U.S., or doing business there. Problem solved.
Sharing your password is against the ToS of every single social media platform out there, including but not limited to Facebook, Twitter, every forum ever, etc. Share your password to your account when you go to the US and kiss that account goodbye.
And that list? Yes, I believe there are honor killings (DING). I believe women need more power in society (DING from any anti-feminist) or I believe genders are not equal because each gender has strengths and weaknesses different from each other (DING from a lot of people). I do not value the "sanctity of human life" in that I believe assisted suicide, under a lot of scrutiny and supervision, should be legal - we have mortally sick pets put down to spare them the suffering, but grandma HAS to be kept alive no matter what! I also believe abortion should not be illegal, so that's TWO dings in one question.
Just ... what are they expecting with this? HONESTY? Or a well-rehearsed regurgitation of the correct answers?
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
We can't even get Asshole M'Gunt to share his tax returns. Fuck that guy.
The United States has done off the deep end. I will never be visiting such a douche bag country that would pull this shit. If the States wants less "Terrorists" then stop pissing every one off. Stop stealing from every one and killing innocent people.
No in the past the USA would just refuse to extradite people to face terrorist charges to European countries. I know for certain this applied to both the UK and France, and included terrorists who where Muslim.
Heck the USA would even allow terrorist organizations to fund raise in the USA!!! When it comes to terrorists the USA can just fuck right off.
Far more people have died in the UK from terrorists that the USA harboured and allowed to fund raise than have from any Islamist's terrorists, but don't let facts get in the way of your bigoted viewpoint.
"Land of the free, home of the BRAVE"? NOT! Brave people don't fear their world, and free people don't ask others to give up their freedom...
Right, no more trrists for 'Murica. And by trrists, of course I mean tourists. So many nicer places to visit anyway!
Ezekiel 23:20
Tourism is a $1.5 trillion industry in the US. I don't know what exactly the split is between domestic and foreign but foreign is definitely a significant chunk (one site claimed $21 billion from foreign tourists in April 2016) and if you're worried about trade deficits then that chunk is especially important.
There are already concerns that foreign tourism revenue is starting to dry up after Trump's election and the (attempted) Muslim bans. If it's actually put into effect this "extreme vetting" will only accelerate that process.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Just like we do in Israel!
Ah yes, but the IRA were good clean Christian terrorists, so it was totally okay to allow them to enter the US to evade arrest and raise money for the "struggle" (which amounted as often as not to blowing up informants and random people for effect).
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
US: That's okay, we can ship you back or hold you in a cell at our pleasure. Tell your wife to take all the time she needs to find that fob.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I think that's exactly what they want.. remember.. to a paranoid's mindset.. anyone that is NOT under 24 hour watch with constant blood tests and brain drains is a risk.
But they always forget, these actions do nothing but CREATE NEW enemies, give strength to the existing ones.. and alienate your allies.. But as I said, that's exactly what they want because in that world, they direct control.
God made the Idiot for practice, and then He made the School Board -- Mark Twain Look for http://Thebar.steelbeachca
More and more of my (Canadian) friends and family have made the decision to cancel discretionary trips to and through the USA in recent months.
Most people I know who are are staying away aren't doing it because of Trump's EOs or new rules that are coming. The majority are caucasian Canadian citizens, so they'd breeze right in anyway.
It's more that many Canadians that I've talked to feel that discretionary travel to the US is tacit support for Trump and his Republicans. We realize it's a drop in the ocean, but it's the only tool we have.
My wife and her friends recently cancelled a 'girl's weekend' in Seattle. I have a cousin who recently made the decision to go to Cuba in May instead of the Hawaii trip she had planned. Other friends who cancelled a Disney trip. Still others who cancelled San Diego and went to Mexico.
I also know of several people here in Vancouver who booked trips to points south and east and specifically avoided (cheaper) US carriers so they could avoid transiting the USA. They instead transited YYZ, YUL and MEX.
None of these people are radical eco-hippie-lefties. Just average Canadians who have made the decision not the travel to or through the USA.
I know, I know, anecdotal, we don't need you socialist commie Canadians anyway, Trump rules, America's great, don't let the door hit us on the way out, blah blah blah, but nevertheless that's tens of thousands of dollars deflected away from the USA right there in my little sphere, within the last month or two.
And you wanted "free" stuff.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
that's what they're expecting. All of the folks you just described will get a pass if they come from Christian countries. At least, that's the plan. Whether it'll hold up in court or not is another matter. We used to have lots of laws/rules about this sort of discrimination where everybody's doing it but it's OK because they do it with a wink and a node and a dog whistle. But we've been chipping away at those protections for about 10 years now.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
I imagine the Tourism Lobby will have a dollar or two to ..er, I mean, thing or two to say about this.
Alternatively, can you imagine how we would react if the UK decided to do the same with US visitors?
Awk! Pieces of eight. Pieces of eight. Pieces of seven... ERROR: General Protection Fault. [Paroty Error.]
The cost to personal liberty, the flagrant unconstitutionality, and the chilling effect on US international relations and tourism aside, this is ALSO a bad idea because it will have zero effect on the real bad guys.
If you are a bad guy, why would you bring a phone loaded with contacts? Why would you provide a real, rather than a fake social media account? For a real bad guy, it is trivially easy to circumvent this new check. For the rest of us, it's a massive inconvenience, invasion of privacy, and an almost certain invitation to both systematic abuse and abuse by bad-apple agents.
(BTW, topic drift... I was quite surprised to see financial data disclosure requirements described as "new". Unlike the phone search and social media stuff, the financial data part is _not_ new. It's been a requirement for certain visa applicants for at least 40 years. It doesn't currently happen at the border, but rather at visa application time. Perhaps the reason it's listed as being new is because it now includes visa-waiver-program countries too?)
Yes. That's kind of the point.
You only have to check the ones with brown skin or funny names, so it should be easy-peasy...
Extreme vetting for the win!
Kneel Before Christ!
One way or another Trump will either resign or be removed from office quickly. In the mean time we need to stop all of his executive orders, budgets and laws from being passed as well as prepare methods for quick removal of any that manage to get through the obstruction that we will impose at every turn. One difficult issue will be whether to put Trump on trial for his numerous crimes that are now being exposed. These are not the fantasy crimes such as were claimed against Obama and Clinton but real, hard core crimes that may well include treason. The economic crimes alone are enough to put him in prison for life.
I think you are right, it is very few things Trump has actually done, and I can imagine that he likes to take credit for it. But is it not sloppy reporting from WSJ?
How will this stop anyone besides the absolute dumbest terrorists? Won't they just start lying?
Almost anyone can lie convincingly given enough practice. Look at Congress.
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According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
Canada offers a decent alternative "Americanized tourist" experience.
It says "Tourists from Britain and other countries" then refers to paywall article. Anyone able read the full list of countries and post here?
I was wondering the same. "Sorry sir, I left my phone in my own country, I have 0 social media accounts. You're welcome to view my comments on /. Since that's the only online presence I have". Prove me wrong.
None of the terrorists had come from those countries. Calling those judges SJW diminishes the power of the insult. It's like calling Trump a nazi. It's soon (already?) going to only mean "people we don't agree with politically." You're also not responding to the real argument for why they issued injunctions.
Reality is a slackware box running on a 386 tucked away in god's sock drawer.
I wouldn't expect judges to be Social Justice Warriors. Surely that's more of a position for Social Justice Paladins. Social Justice Warriors would be more likely in the military, or at least the police.
Social Justice Clerics of course would be in the church. Jesuits perhaps.
Social Justice Mages... probably researchers, working on renewable energy and the like.
Social Justice Bards... I'd imagine that there's not enough musical work for them, but they'd probably feel at home in the media.
Social Justice Rogues.. out on protests.
Social Justice Barbariasn... hmm... fighting internet trolls.
Social Justice Druids... out on some hippie commune.
Social Justice Sorcerers.... probably in the maker community.
Social Justice Rangers... forestry service?
Social Justice Warlocks... members of Anonymous maybe?
Social Justice Monks... actually, yeah, literal monks. Buddhist, not Christian.
Kneel Before Christ!
Given the high number of Murders/Prison population in the USA compared to other 1st world countries it would make just as much sense to bar US citizens from travelling to those countries.
But what is happening is that Tourists are now avoiding the USA and thats going to cost tens of thousands of jobs and billions of dollars in lost income.
Feel free to start a trade war, the US is only 4% of the worlds population and 20% of the worlds GDP.
Asia is where all the real growth is, China is the biggest economy and growing, US firms could see themselves locked out of the Asian market. "Friends" of the USA have seen how Trump treats them, countries if they have any sense will be planning on what to do if the US is no longer there as a trading partner. Sure its going to hurt for a wee while, but everyone will recover. It will open opportunities for the likes of Airbus and Boeing gets sidelined, it will open up opportunities for EU companies to replace Apple, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, HP, etc etc etc etc etc.
Peak USA was the 1960/1970s , it has been slowly slipping since then. Trump will simply increase the rate of fall.
So keep being scared, Keep being paranoid, Build your walls, alienate the rest of the world, the world will learn to get on just fine without the USA. We can go back to sane copyright laws, sane patent laws, sane gun laws , etc etc etc etc
I remember this happening to a buddy in Korea. Got off the plane watched authorities tell a black man get back on the plane and go home. Wasn't allowed in (not joking).
It's better to not reciprocate. Lets American tourists travel unhampered: they bring money.
There's even no need to retaliate, as it will all sort itself:
- less tourists to America;
- less business travels: give your e-mail credentials to the state ? No way. If you want that contract signed, you come to London/Paris/Tokyo/Beijing/...
- to alleviate the burden of formalities, this year that international conference will be hosted in Dubai/Macau instead of Dallas.
I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
Yep, our family has written off the USA as a place to visit (I have been about 6 times, family twice)
.
We are also encouraged at work not to go the Europe via the USA, or attend conferences/training in the USA, risks are too high.
Dropping tourist numbers is already removing billions from the US economy, and the fall is only going to accelerate
So just remember as you shout USA first, 96% of the worlds population and 80% of the worlds GDP is saying USA last.
The world has become a lost more accessible, countries have modernised , tourism is easier and cheaper than ever before, there are more flights to more destinations than ever before, so choosing "not the USA" is no longer a problem, people are missing out on less and less each year.
So ... you don't want our money?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
But they were the good kind of terrorist, the kind that buys weapons in the Us and only blows shit up outside the US.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Cuba did actually improve in about the same way the US deteriorated as a vacation destination.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Be glad they took that bullshit down. What do you think this would have accomplished, except piss off some people? Do you really believe someone hellbent on blowing shit up can't first move to a different country before flying to the US? For real?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Counter question: Why would I bring my phone to the US? It most likely won't work considering that you're using a different frequency spectrum than Europe does (at least afaik). Not to mention that I'd be paying through the nose for roaming. If I really needed a phone in the US, the sensible thing is to buy one over here, store the contacts somewhere on a server and download them to the new phone as soon as I have it.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
For what? For not participating in the mass idiocy called social media?
I actually do not have a Facebook account. Neither do I have any videos on YouTube. I do not bring my phone along to transatlantic flights because roaming costs are prohibitively expensive, if I really stay long enough that having a cellphone becomes interesting, I can certainly find one for cheap along with a prepaid plan that will do, at least for emergencies.
I couldn't even hand over my Slashdot account for the password for this is stored in a password save on the computer I can't even bring along because it weighs more than carry-on or checked luggage allows, and why the heck would I bring it along on a VACATION in a country I go to to actually get away from the mundane daily routine?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Ohhh, it's from the slander journal?
Ok, we can safely ignore that bullshit then, carry on.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Well you are certainly fucking up the global elites there big boy. I don't think Disney world Florida will be doing much business in future when the tourists can't get there anymore. Perhaps we should be vetting Americans - so many of them seem to be alt-right gun nuts it is hard to tell whether they are safe. Realistically the terrorists have won, a nationalist president has gone nuclear over fucking over foreigners for votes. The free world has started to look like that dystopian police state future that American movies have been previewing for years. Call yourselves the leaders of the free world, ha, more like an evil empire. Fortunately there is plenty going on in the rest of the world, this being the Far Eastern century for a start.
Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
Not quite. Yes, what happened under the Obama administration involved CBP and social media, but it was significantly different.
Last July the Obama administration proposed a voluntary disclosure of social media profile information for travelers seeking a visa waiver through the ESTA system (Electronic System for Travel Authorization). It did not include password or contact information, but was controversial nonetheless. It sent into effect in December.[
The Trump administration is proposing significant changes to that program, requiring more information (passwords and contacts) and making it compulsory.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
putting the effort and money into road safety or public health. A far better Return On Investment.
> ...when SJW Judges prevent you from doing common sense things like prohibiting people from countries most likely to harbor those who want to harm you.
What, like Saudi Arabia?
Because its better than where they were.
Perhaps you want to compare those figure to the millions who have recently ended up in Europe
They would prefer to been at home, but home is full of war, death and destruction.
We have a lot of Americans who have taken up citizenship in New Zealand, if its so good there why did they leave ?
Now YOU dont care, but the people whose job depends on tourists do, tour guides do, hotels do, airlines do, tourist attractions do.
Its not OUR attitude, its the US attitude that making the difference, and tourists are now voting with their wallets.
América es grande otra vez ya? O todavía tenemos que inflar el ego un poco más?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
So I don't have a Secret Group in Facebook?
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
I was dismayed the last time I visited the United States, when after the indignity of being treated like a criminal by having my fingerprints taken for the first time, the border official said to me, "Now that wasn't such a big deal was it". Border officials have absolute power. Being on business, I was in no position to offer an alternative opinion and run the risk of being sent home.
Your tourism industry will be suffering. I stopped travelling for pleasure to the US long ago. If I should visit Canada for a holiday you can be sure I will travel via Auckland or Asia and not LA.
Fuck you guys, I'm tired of your shit.
With an attitude like that you wonder why we don't want you here. Just stay home. We don't care.
Your choice of words betrays your belief that the US is still the center of the universe. It is less and less so, and that's a shame.
A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
Probably because the US spent decades in their home countries destablizing their governments in an attempt to exert colonial control over the country's natural resources and labor.
Or better yet buy a burner phone when they arrive in the USA.
We have people literally dying to come across our borders to get here. If the US is THAT bad, why are they coming?
You are mixing apples and oranges. The people dying to get to the US are dirt poor folk from third world countries. The US happens to be an advanced, rich, first-world country next door. You are the closest rich place. Thus they come to you. If Mexico shared a border with Canada, and not the US, Mexicans would try to illegally cross into Canada. If they shared a border with Germany, they'd try to cross over into Germany. Why aren't there a lot of Syrian asylum seekers in the US? They think the US is crap and don't want to come there? Or is it maybe because they are tens of thousands of kilometres away from the nearest US border? There do happen to be millions of them in Turkey though....I guess Turkey being next door to Syria has something to do with it.
What GP is trying to tell you is that "extreme vetting" and the like will do little to discourage desperate illegals (one, they are desperate, two, they are already trying to cross the border without bothering with such things as visas and passports and ETAs) but will do much to annoy legitimate travellers from rich countries, coming temporarily to spend money in the US. You will soon see that yes, you indeed care (as a nation, as an economy), because you will be losing out. On tourism dollars first, and then on business opportunities and investment after that. Treat every passenger as a potential terrorist and piss them off by subjecting them to ridiculous procedures, and guess what, you'll end up pissing off the 99,999...99% of passengers that aren't terrorists. Why would I want to go to a place where I might have my phone searched at the border? Why would I want to be submitted to the humiliation of explaining what every photo in my phone is about to some stranger trained to see a potential deadly threat in every person he comes across? So I can see the Grand Canyon? I can look at pictures of the canyon instead. Better that than some inane border guard looking over all my personal pictures.
Look at the reports of returning US citizens being required to do so. Shouldn't any non-citizen expect the same treatment? Especially if they are applying to live in this country. Then, when they are citizens, the NSA can keep check on them all the time....LOL
Foreign tourists spent $216B in America last year, making tourism one of our biggest "exports". This reduces our trade deficit and provides jobs for millions of Americans, maybe even some ex-coalminers. Trump should be doing everything possible to encourage more people to come here, rather than pushing them away. Sad.
Just ... what are they expecting with this? HONESTY? Or a well-rehearsed regurgitation of the correct answers?
Actually the problem I have is potentially worse since I cannot just give well rehearsed answers because I have no mobile phone and I do not use any social media sites, unless Slashdot counts. So I cannot give them a Facebook account or a mobile phone to scrutinize which will probably make me look extremely suspicious to them.
It's case sensitive.
Format C:||Y|Y
See, it's working!
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
People seem to think this is anything more than turning up the heat on the frog pot. We've been getting slowly boiled for a long, long time.
Welcome to the United States.
Zappa had it nailed on the jobless recovery too.
Food Gathering in Post-Industrial America, 1992
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
Let's face it, the US economy is dependent on exports. Now, what do you export? Unfortunately the statistics I know don't declare tourism as an export article, but judging from the GDP data, we can at least start pondering
agriculture: 1.1%
industry: 19.4%
services: 79.5%
80 cents of every GDP dollar come from services. Services are now very, very hard to export. Either you have to send the person performing the service abroad, or you have to get the person using (and paying for) the service here. Since the former will probably not be taxable here, the latter is way more popular.
That's called tourism.
Even considering that most services are for domestic consumption, it's hard to miss that the US economy is heavily dependent on the service sector. We're talking about around 70 million tourists from abroad visiting the US. And I think it's safe to assume that few of them manage to get by on a dollar a day.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Bzzt. Access denied. Wait over there for the next plane home - at your expense.
216 billion is not chump change.
America has become an authoritarian shit hole, land of the free and home of the brave no more.
Land of the opressed home of the coward is far more apt for the stinking shithole the US has become.
Just don't go spouting any bullshit about freedom of speech, religion, freedom from unreasonable searches, etc. Or they'll throw you out as some sort of commie subversive
Have gnu, will travel.
Treated as anyone should be - as equals. Oh well, that's me banned from Trumpelstiltskin's America then. Good.
Only in inner city ghettos where the black and brown people live or rural areas where white hillbilly Christian methheads live. If you think the USA is third world I'd encourage you to visit Mexico where many citizens live in small shacks by the roadside as soon as you get out of town. Our ghettos can be bad but not nearly that bad.
We (my family) won't be back.
You hear about businesses talking about "transactional friction", i.e. the difficulties in doing a transaction, the lower it is the more it gets used.
Well the "friction" for visiting the USA is simply too high, the risks for tourists too high, the risk of loosing phones and laptop too high. Where as the friction for other countries is much lower.
Our next "big trip" (they usually are 4-8 weeks) will be into Asia in a couple of years, then back to Europe (via Asia) a few years after that, then a cruise around Australia. The USA has been removed from consideration, its too hard.
... should rule the day.
All countries should respond in kind to any vetting and any banning by the USA.
I'm an American and not particularly proud of it.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
"how they view the treatment of women in society," This is hilarious coming from this administration.
It is not an insult — the judiciary has no say in who is allowed to cross the border. None. Zilch — it is entirely up to the Executive branch. At least, that's what we were told, when Elian Gonzalez was sent back to Cuba — in defiance of wishes of his mother, who gave up her life to get him out of there. A court refused to grant Elian a reprieve, deferring to the President, who wanted to send the boy back:
To suddenly switch for the exact opposite opinion requires utter disregard for the actual law and earlier precedents, however recent. The explanation, that the judges' motivation is some kind of "higher" justice — such as "Social" justice — is the most reasonable one...
And, before you ask, they were talking about Federal Executive branch — not that of any of the member States (suck it up, California). It was only in 2012, that Supreme Court Justice Kennedy wrote for the court's majority against Arizona:
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Ohhh, it's from the slander journal?
Ok, we can safely ignore that bullshit then, carry on.
Your words, not mine. My position would be the same if it was Breitbart. Media is quite often wrong, and none of them are above inventing stories for click-bait.
Now if they gave a link to a proposed Bill, I'd take it more seriously. Media does not create laws or regulations, Government Legislators do.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Good luck with that.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
I've joined a variety of social groups on line and gotten bored and left, but not canceled the account. I have some google and yahoo accounts I haven't used in ages, and probably have an AOL account from 20 years ago, no idea what the password was. I don't even know my FB password, my computer auto logs in, and its in secure physical storage at home with my other passwords.
But I can't PROVE that I've forgotten my google+ account password.
Then again, being a middle-aged white guy, I guess I don't need to worry.
FTS: "... questions under consideration included... how (visa applicants) view the treatment of women in society".
Methinks VP Pence would fail that test miserably. His anti-abortion stance favours a law that would even prevent even rape victims from aborting the fetuses fathered by their rapists. He made a (thankfully unsuccessful) attempt to enact legislation forcing women to pay for funerals for the blood and tissue ejected when they miscarry. Now that's what I call a positive and respectful attitude towards women in society!
As for the US government becoming an even creepier Peeping Tom when it comes to probing visitors' privacy, I no longer care. I was already saying "No!" when it came to visiting the States, and now I'm saying "Hell no!", so this doesn't represent a very big change. I don't know why Trump is wasting the money that US taxpayers, (not Mexico), will pay to build his damned wall. He's already erecting a pretty effective virtual wall - lots of people around the world are staying away because of the antics of the knuckle-dragging thug that runs the place. If he keeps it up, even the most desperate Mexicans may feel safer with the drug lords, corruption, and abject poverty in their native country than they would in the land of der Trumpenfuhrer.
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
Funny enough my country has people showing up literally risking death and losing limbs to get out of your country. Been happening for about 240 years now, all people seeking freedom, some literally freedom from slavery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Well, if you decide to visit again when the friction gets lower, maybe you'll let me buy you a beer.
Of course you're correct about all that. But let me add some perspective to the America-firsters position, because it is, in its horrible way, at least partly consistent.
The majority of tourism dollars and employment go to the coastal, well-to-do, cosmopolitan, educated, liberal cities. The fact that alt-right anti-visitor policies are going to cripple the tourism industry isn't a bug to our regressive political thinkers; it's a feature. The fact that the coastal cities, the educated people, the cosmopolitan culture, the LBGTQ-friendly places, the colleges that receive foreign students, will be in a shambles is expressly among the things that they desire. Arguing that fact will not dissuade them; it will actually reinforce how wonderful these policies are.
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
Always happy to have a beer anywhere in the world.
:-)
My next "must" beer trip is to Ireland and go through the Guinness factory tour. Last time I was there I simply did not get time.
My one claim to Fame is that while I was in Detroit (30 years ago) I got smuggled into the players bar and I have had a beer with Gordie Howe the Canadian ice hockey great. Nice guy, nice beer, winning combo
slowly but surely, we are switching places with China.
Does the current administration not see the risk of a brain drain? It is a historical fact that the advantage the US/allies had in WWII was in no small part caused by the exodus of scientists/technicians/&c from Germany to the safe harbor that was the US and its academic environment.
"Uh, excuse me, Dr. Einstein*, but I need to do a full cavity search and peruse your every photo and tweet before I let you in; or you could, you know, just board a plane to go anywhere but the US."
Is anyone asking why put this into place?
Well, you're absolutely right that a lot of tourism dollars go to liberal-minded coastal places (NYC, California). However, Arizona gets a lot of tourists. Nevada too. Nashville. Memphis (I transferred at Memphis airport once - I remember all the signs being in English and Japanese). Detroit. Wyoming. Utah. Etc. It's not like only the blue states benefit.
In the past ???
I found it hilarious that the US government is "concerned" about possible Russian funding of Afghan terrorist groups when the US was funding those exact same groups when Russia was the occupying force.
The USA meddles in the internal politics of other countries, funds terrorists (or freedom fighters until they change sides, then they are terrorists again), run espionage rings in other countries , Bullies other countries, etc etc etc, but they get upset when someone does it back to them.
Probably true, right up until they get to the realisation "USA first" means "USA last" for the 96% of the worlds population (and 80% of the world GDP) who are no US citizens.
The US has put at risk over $2 Trillion in exports. Those exports are often made by high tech, high paid workers (e.g. Boeing), what happens when Asia stick on a 30% tariff on US goods, the EU does well, the US does not. And things can be made difficult for Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, Adobe, HP, Facebook, Twitter, Intel, etc etc etc etc.
In the end it will all flow back to those American Firsters who will probably suffer the most for the longest period.
The thing they forget is "Can the world survive without the USA", the answer is yes, if all trade with the USA stopped it would hurt for a while, but it will open up opportunities for others and within a decade or two it will be "who cares".
The Brits are about to find this out too, Yes, its their choice to leave the EU, but if they ever want to join again it will be on the EUs terms (e.g. single currency , drive on the right, etc etc etc). Will the EU suffer, yep for a wee while, they will recover. Who knows the "divorce" may mean all the kids have to go home, UK workers require visas , work permits, etc, etc etc etc. They too have forgotten that once you are out of the game you can no longer make up the rules.
Do some research, and look up the meaning of Sectarian Violence. The Troubles were catholic vs protestant at the base line.The IRA were nationalistic in that they wanted a Catholic Republic.
I doubt, that justifies their actions, but it does make them distinctly different.
It makes them distinctly similar. A bunch of murdering bastards.
So the casual British terrorist just leaves their phone at home and claims to not have any social media accounts. Or is not having that suspicious? Does one have to have a Facebook account to enter the US? As if any of that has any impact on national security. Rather than destroy the US tourism industry Trump should focus on much stricter gun control laws. There are significantly more people getting shot in the US each year than were killed by terrorists in the last decade. He needs to get his priorities straight!
So for example, an extreme radical Taoist wants a visa. In his long term preparation he creates a LinkedIn, Facebook, Google, Dice, and Monster account. On those accounts he presents a picture of devoted family man with a steady job, and interest in koi ponds as a hobby. His day job as a fishmonger is seen as ironic by the consul and embassy staff. Unbeknownst to the US staffers in one of the encrypted disk images with his secret koi food recipes and pond building design concepts, there lurks insidious radical data. It is in the free space of the encrypted disk image. It itself is encrypted. The password to the encrypted disk image is "koi". But the freespace hidden image within the image requires the use of partition map tools to get the extents of the free space, and use of dd to copy those blocks to another blank disk image created for the specific purpose each time it is used. Then the new image can be decrypted by the usual encrypted volume tools. Once used, dod wipe the freespace after the new volume of secret terrorist sauce was used. It still sits in the encrypted form in the freespace of the nominally koi drive. But odds are no border inspection has a hope of finding it. Make it more fun and force the live version of the terrorist sauce to be in memory only, never backed to the hard drive, or ssd. Another method, in a large executable have a false framework embedded that is your encrypted data. Use the debugger of your development system to copy the framework out of the executable to an in memory filesystem file. Use a playlist from your tunes library as a one bit pad. Not the best as it has definitive patterns but not to shabby either. Run the song data through AES with a key you keep in your head. Then it's a better pad. And again, the immigration agents at the border aren't going to, in all likelyhood, be able to determine the radical Taoist plans for saucing the Christmas dinners with ligonberry sauce instead of cranberry sauce, those basters. This Taoist terrorist is carp. But the border checks will only find the information he wants them to find. He'll appear a normal fishmonger with normal social accounts and emails. His dualist nature hides with his realist presence in plain sight.
Yeah, it's totally a coincidence that the IRA were all Catholics. Nothing to do with religion whatsoever...
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
It may surprise you, but most of the world does. Well, unless you invaded them and made them pay you for it.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Coincidentally that was the decade when traveling to the US was fun for the last time.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Come to Europe! We sure could need a sensible person or two to immigrate here, just to dilute the unwashed masses of idiots that is doing that currently.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
It's easier with Breitbart, they at least offer SO outlandish stories that it's trivial to identify them as some sort of insane ramblings of some conspiracy nut.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
A big Porsche fan was arrested last night while entering the United States.
When asked for the reason of his visit, he said he wanted to see the new 911.
"borrowed from us in the first place"
Like you, we all borrow from China now.
Wasn't it already established that constitutional rights don't really apply while you're stuck in immgrations? They can search your stuff without a warrant, so why should other constitutional protections apply?
"They are taking him nowhere, Mr. Rivers."
And so does Russia, resulting in millions of illegal immigrants there. Must be an awesome place to live according to your logic.
Both are countries I won't visit again.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Yep, I have a lousy connection too.
No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.
As a European I agree with this with one exception: it doesn't necessarily mean said companies will be 'replaced' by others. Multinational companies can re-locate themselves just as people can. If a trade war is started and Google & Co do the math and figure staying in the US will hurt their bottom line too much they'll move out and become European for example.
This is one of the main reasons why trade wars are stupid and counter--productive in this day and age. Capital and corporations can move across borders rapidly, and they will do so the moment said trade war will start hurting them too much. Trumpsters seem to be under the illusion there's some magical property making american companies forever american. Right now they are because currently the american stock market and environment is still the best place to do business from but if that changes these guys are not going to stay because they're patriots or some such nonsense. They care about money and making it, not the color of the flag waving atop their headquarter.
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
I don't mind being asked questions, but I can't remember my social media passwords...
Well, somebody needed to pay for Black & Decker drills - the favoured power tool of the IRA.
"Well, unfortunately for you we can prove that you are lying. So we'll stick you in prison first and then deport you. Have a nice day!"
I was going to rely with a joke about terrorists using exploding phones and not burner* ones, but then I released that was the Israelis.
* I'm not even convinced that current terrorists in the EU/USA would know to use burner phones - they seem to be too bloody stupid. The only reason they seem to succeed is sheer luck rather than skill. The current crop also seem to be drug using, alcohol drinking rentboys.
Every country which is required to provide the information to enter the US should also do the exact same to people coming from the US. I'll bet a lot of US citizens will start bitching and scream that it would be ridiculous, but then just tell them, "that's exactly what our citizens have to do when they enter your country"..
Only if we can do it in private!
My next "must" beer trip is to Ireland and go through the Guinness factory tour. Last time I was there I simply did not get time.
It's well worth doing, but ironically it's not a great place to drink Guinness. It needs to be left to settle for a little bit in the barrel before pouring and the bar on top of the museum (great views - do go there) doesn't leave it long enough. When I was there, the best place for guinness was a 'pre-club bar' on the river called the White Horse, but I think it's closed now. Ask a local for advice, it's well worth it!
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Why would I bring my phone to the US? It most likely won't work
Coming from the UK, not only does my phone work in the US, text messages are cheaper for me to send than back home, calls and data are 10% more expensive, and it's cheaper than most US mobiles to use. And it's good to have it, because the fraud rates on credit cards in the US are high (my card has been cloned twice out there) so my bank often flags US transactions as fraudulent and sends me an SMS to confirm them. Without my phone working, I'd have to go and look up their fraud department number and make an international call to confirm them.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
That would likely backfire. A huge proportion of people in the US have never been outside their country's borders. This is great for the government because they have no basis for comparison other than scare stories from the media, which is largely owned by the same people that own the politicians. Reducing the number of US citizens who see other countries is unlikely to make the US a better neighbour.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Yep. I did a month long road trip with a mate of mine in the mid 90s. Flew into the east coast, picked up a hire car, drove to the west. We didn't even have accommodation planned for the first night - just got in the car and drove until we found a motel.
As I understand it now, you need to know your entire itinerary in advance.
Sigs are so 1990s. No way would I be seen dead with one.
In practice, it would probably be a case of "You're not getting in", or "Okay, but we'll, we'll take that phone from you" if they're feeling nice. Either way, it's expensive and inconvenient.
To be fair, UK welcomed Chechen islamists with open arms back in the 1990ies and also allowed them fund raising and still refuses to extradite them on terrorism charges. Brits really are no better in this matter.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
The US is resembling Russia more and more. Once a superpower, now going gradually downhill socially and politically. Whenever anyone points this out they get huffy and isolate themselves from anyone who criticizes them in any way. Which only further contributes to their problems.
plain and simple, don't go.
For vacation, the world is a big place, there are enough other beautiful, friendly places to visit.
For business, make them do the trip to you.
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
Dissent is always patriotic. The damned country was founded based on (extreme) dissent!
As for racist well.. if you put a racist in the White House and you dislike his racist policies then of course your dissent is unlikely to be racist. That's kind of the point.
As for whatever action the US takes being bad well.. only the bad ones. Unfortunately with Trump that seems to be basically all of them -- his "actions" are so bloody ridiculous that even his own party is dissenting at this point.
Its not about Trump being a republican. Its about Trump being a fricken disaster of a president in general. I'm not going to claim Hillary would have been better (I still have my doubts about that..) but I'm pretty sure she couldn't have been much worse at this point.
Used to be you could pretty much trust Europeans not to come to America to blow things up or murder people. Now they've taken in so many terrists and their supporters, that's no longer the case... I'm quite amazed that Britain is still in the Visa Waiver Program, because it looks more like a third-world country every time I go there.
Bullshit have you been to Britain. Or if you have: do you want to be more specific with your bile? Rather than just slandering an entire country, and continent?
Seems highly unlikely you know anything about Europe.
We have people literally dying to come across our borders to get here.
Man you guys really need to get your health insurance sorted out.
If the US is THAT bad, why are they coming?
Because they can't get to places where they want to go. Same reason I went to Chicago last year.
Do some research, and look up the meaning of Sectarian Violence. The Troubles were catholic vs protestant at the base line.The IRA were nationalistic in that they wanted a Catholic Republic.
No, they were Irish and wanted a united Ireland free from foreign rule. Just like any other independence struggle. I don't condone their violence but it was not primarily a religious war.
Yes, it is a coincidence. The England-Ireland conflict began, when both sides were still a mixture Catholics/Pagans, centuries before establishment of the Church of England.
Cromwell's anti-Catholicism laws date to 17th century — half a millennium after the early armed invasions of England's armies into Ireland.
You got it.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
"One rule for Trump, another for everyone else."
you misspelled politicians
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
I am not sure if this is just codifying existing practices or what, but if you watch "Border Security" you would know that these things are pretty standard in Canada, Australia, and America.
The first thing border agents do is to get your phone passwords.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
^^^ Hear fucking hear.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Well when Dept of Homeland Security Secretary says something, it's kind of unfair to claim a paper is making something up.
https://homeland.house.gov/hea...
http://www.npr.org/templates/t...
But hey, I get it, media bashing, it's the new cool.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Pertinent quote:
SEC JOHN KELLY: Yeah. You know, pick a country. The thing that we're looking for is when a person comes in, the State Department does these interviews. Someone comes in and says, I want to come to the United States. Then we ask them to give us a list of websites that they visit and the passwords to get on those websites to see what they're looking at. This is...
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Many people in the US were raised in a time where we *were* the center of the universe. The propaganda said that was because of how great our society was. In reality, the US was the center of the universe, because we were the only country that could take on the Soviet Union's quest for world domination. That was basically a war of attrition and the Soviets bankrupted themselves first. It wasn't a victory when the Soviet Union collapsed but rather a time of fear since they were a nuclear armed state. Now the US is declining and we're also a nuclear armed state. Emotionally, though, people have been so indoctrinated that they can't adjust to the new reality very well. Similar to the Soviet decline, the US has an amazing and scary military capacity which is why the world even cares at all.
Also, in fairness, poor immigrants (legal or otherwise) have a disproportional negative effect on the poorer inland area. The reality is, though, that losing tourists is less of a concern than losing immigrants. All developed countries have a problem with birth rate and the US is certainly no exception. We aren't going to be able to pay for our social security system if we don't get *more* people moving here. And that will hurt the flyover country people the most as they are less likely to have private pensions / 401ks.
China is still only the second-largest economy although will probably overtake the US soon. Had we not had Brexit, the EU likely would have overtaken in the next ten years. Now that may take a bit longer. China is going to have a tough time sustaining economic growth due to the dearth of accurate information needed for business planning. That should be a huge US competitive advantage but will likely be undermined due to the alternative-facts movement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
As the US has the death penalty, I'm not sure how to answer that one.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
They were motivated by more than just nationalism.
There have been centuries of discrimination against Irish Catholics.
It would seem to me that the actions my government is taking with regard to muslims is only going to exacerbate a problem that could have remained a regional, political conflict.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
"borrowed from us in the first place"
Like you, we all borrow from China now.
We actually borrow from the Federal Reserve System. It's the bank's money, we just get to borrow it for a while.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Canadian Customs will also go through your phone and/or computer looking to verify your story. Don't know about social media accounts.
Because there are worse places.
Your question essentially amounts to "Is the US the worst place in the world?", and the answer is "No.".
Not just that, but RECORDING the data on the phone, and doing lord knows what, because they don't do those things in FRONT of a person.. so absolutely not.. I've already advised my workers to focus on telecommuting/video conference calls, and the US has dropped from a priority country to a to be avoided country... I've encouraged my staff to if at all possible, avoid going into the US for any reason. (most have very little reason, but actions like this, again, put the US on that "do not fly into" list).
My company used to spend about 1-2 Million USD in travel to the US annually, that's dropped to 80K.. and we continue to lower it. I'm one of about a 2 dozen firms that do similar amounts... which will be reduced.
Enjoy your deconstruction and isolation..
God made the Idiot for practice, and then He made the School Board -- Mark Twain Look for http://Thebar.steelbeachca
Woooooosh.
^^ The sound of the point I made flying right over your head.
Ah, well.
A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
Yeah, he had to go to the US to avoid the Nazis. Or Canada, South America, Russia or even the UK.
in the rest of the world thanks us.
Yes. That's kind of the point.
Kind of like the UK with Brexit.
"This is a local country, for local people. Theres nothing for you foreigners here!"
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
Yes, starting with Cromwell... England was prosecuting even the domestic Catholics — questioning their loyalty (again, on Nationalist grounds) — those of the subjugated lands stood no chance...
If you are referring to the US government, you are quite obviously wrong. The US has not persecuted Muslims at all until 9/11 — to a fault. We walked on eggshells. For example, we didn't finish Saddam Hussein in 1992 so as not to appear to be "crusaders". And what did we get — we got 9/11 because our troops have entered, with the country's government's permission (invitation!) the "sacred lands of Saudi Arabia"!
Yeah, which "region" is it, the contains the Arabian peninsula, Manhattan, and Virginia?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Not as much the new cool, more the retaliation after they started the media war.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
And of course you'll insist that the Gunpowder Plotters were also just coincidentally Catholic.
I love watching the extent to which people trying to make Islam into some sort of special case will partake of special pleading to try to let Christians of similar deeds off the hook.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Great, so "throwaway cell phone" is going onto the list of things to get should I ever fly out to the US again.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Of course absolutely nothing has actually happened - except for a media that's totally out of control throwing gasoline on every single comment made by anyone and immediately painting a horrible picture of the end of the world...
And if you actually believe what you read in our press, please check out the comment sections, they are more rational than the crap the press writes. Seriously if you can't see what's going on over here - we don't want you to visit anyway. The press is bat-shit crazy. Many of the people on the coasts are bat-shit crazy. The rest of us - THE MAJORITY - are happy and perfectly normal and not really all the worried about Trump.
Murphy was an optimist
Including trying to force them to abandon, you guessed, Catholicism. Catholicism wasn't the only cause of the Troubles, but saying it wasn't a part of the issue is like claiming the US Civil War wasn't about slavery. The fact was that the Irish viewed their culture as fundamentally Catholic, and viewed the Protestants in Ulster as unwanted criminal interlopers. Every war has its team colors, and in Ireland, the team colors are Catholic and Protestant
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Exactly. Trump's game plan is to turn the United States into an autarky.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Funny how 'the special relationship' means the UK provides troops for US military adventures, but we have to have a visa to come to US, whereas you don't need one to come here. I think for a lot of UK tourists this will be the deal breaker. I won't be submitting to personal questions about my politics etc, even if I am a white, female 70 year old.
When we went to Germany two years ago, upon arrival we bought a cheap low-end smart phone for my wife and a new SIM for my iPhone 6. No big deal. In fact, I chose our first hotel partly based on proximity to a good electronics store (and equally close to the U-bahn and S-bahn). Now, I'd buy a low-end smart phone for myself, load some critical contacts and use it for a few weeks before leaving and I'd lock my iPhone in my house and leave it. Last trip I took a Chromebook instead of my MacBook Air, I'll do the same in the future.
When you sympathize with stupidity, you start thinking like an idiot.
I prefer option 3, "None of this ineffective bullshit"
In technical terms, the Church of England has been in existence for well over a thousand years. If you're talking about the Church becoming Protestant, it was already beginning to happen in Henry VIII's time, and it was his son, Edward VI, who formally made it a Protestant church. Mary I tried to temporarily reverse it, but Elizabeth I fixed the CofE as a Protestant institution, with a Catholic-lite variant for those that dug that long-winded mass.
And even that era produced its own terrorists; Guy Fawkes and his gang of Catholic rebels who nearly succeeded in blowing Parliament up, and with that act the Catholics in England became the Muslims of the 17th century; distrusted, viewed as would-be traitors of dubious loyalty, with their loyalty towards Rome, practices of an alien faith, and it wasn't until the 19th century that Catholics were politically normalized again (and even then there were some rancor in some quarters about Catholic Emancipation).
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Maybe the Brits will remember this when US wants to borrow our infantry, who return maimed or in body bags, sometimes injured by ' friendly fire'.
Ok, so you surrender the previous topic and wish to change to the new one? Fine, I accept.
England created its own "Church of England" to break away from Rome. Though ostensibly it involved religion, it was a purely political move. Catholics, who continued to divide their loyalty between their nation and the Pope (who was often directly controlled by France), were justifiably suspected. (In modern terms, the conflict was between the Euro-centrics and Euro-sceptics — and so it remains today, even if terrorism is no longer used by either side.)
For another example, consider today's Russian-Ukrainian war — Russia is using the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Moscow Patriarchate as a bulwark against Ukraine, which tries to resist with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Kyivan Patriarchate. There are no differences in religious doctrine — none whatsoever. The sole difference is that of loyalty... Though it involves religions, the conflict is not religious in the slightest.
It is a special case. Whereas Christianity "renders Cæsar's to Cæsar", Islam prescribes — in detail — how the country (the world!) ought to be governed: by Sharia, a Theocracy. You can not be a good Muslim and not fight for the establishment of it — on this Earth...
This makes Islam not purely a religion, but also a political movement/ideology. A movement, which — like Communism, for example — should be resisted and indeed attacked.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
We have people literally dying to come across our borders to get here. If the US is THAT bad, why are they coming?
Because they are idiots and are sucked in by your propaganda. Same with the UK.
You need to turn your propaganda machine around so that it shows the world what life is really like in the USA (same for UK) so these people get a realistic impression and realize that they actually should go somewhere else.
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
Trump's extreme vetting decision is working very well. Canadian tourists, for example, busses with classrooms of school kids with one or more immigrant children have cancelled visits to the USA. Even Canadian born WASP are avoiding the USA. We used to camp around Lake George, around Plattsburg, and now we are visiting our own east coast provinces.
I'm glad for Trumps actions. Our tourist dollars are remaining in Canada. And now we are looking at purchases via ALIBABA in lieu of EBAY.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
The free world has started to look like that dystopian police state future that American movies have been previewing for years.
I recommend "The Running Man", starring Arnold Schwarzenegger. It's really eerie, considering the movie was meant to be over-the-top and silly, not at all an accurate prediction of how things would be in the late 2010s.
You obviously don't get it. Those high tech, high paid workers live in the rich, coastal cities in America, not the "flyover country" and rural places that voted for this stuff. Those people don't care about the "coastal elites", in fact they despise them. If this means the tech industry goes down the tubes and the coastal cities all turn into wastelands, they'll be *happy*. They really do think that Trump can bring back the economy of the 1950s and that old-time manufacturing is going to come back to rural America, and that they'll be able to happily discriminate against gays and minorities again. Your economic arguments are useless: these people simply do not understand modern economics.
The same goes for the Brits who voted "leave".
We can go back to sane copyright laws, sane patent laws, sane gun laws , etc etc etc etc
As an American, I'd like to point out that you're perfectly free to adopt saner laws any time you like (unless maybe you're in a sorta-occupied country like Afghanistan). If you're in Western Europe, there's nothing stopping you from adopting sensible legislation other than your own internal problems. The US has a lot of problems, and some really stupid laws, but it's not to blame for your laws.
Trumpsters seem to be under the illusion there's some magical property making american companies forever american.
People like you just don't get it. Trumpsters aren't simply under some illusion, they completely lack any knowledge about basic macroeconomics at all. Most of them couldn't even find China on a world map. It's really hard for educated people to comprehend the mentality of people with such a lack of education, who will happily believe anything they're told by their uneducated peers or their church pastor.
Some of us on this side of the pond have been wondering when you folks would finally figure out what that "special relationship" is. It should have become pretty clear in 1956 with the Suez Crisis, and that was over sixty years ago.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
The US did plenty of meddling in the Middle East, including supporting Israel through pretty much everything they did. The Iraqi invasion of Kuwait was at least partly a failure of US diplomacy, in that Saddam had a very mistaken opinion on what the US would do, after asking the appropriate US diplomat.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Some of us worked it out decades ago, it's just our stupid Governments that when asked to jump, ask'how high'.
Those "socialist states" comprise a large amount of the US population and economy. It would appear that your idea of a more perfect union involves less per capita income.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
We have people literally dying to come across our borders to get here. If the US is THAT bad, why are they coming?
I never understood why people making the argument amounting to "at least we're not the worst" don't see the hilarity of this last refuge.
Ezekiel 23:20
yes fuckface, the US is the center of the universe
I think at least the advanced aliens would disagree. ;)
Ezekiel 23:20
Simple. If you believe in the equality of the sexes, they stop you from coming in. If they have doubts, they ask you to grab the pussy of the closest woman in the line behind you.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Ah yes, all the convincing authority of an AC.
Erh... The CIA disagrees.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
the big tourist companies better be called the SOB in the white house and tell him to back the hell down or else..
NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER GIVE UP! "No limitations, no boundaries, there is no reason for them."
If I visit, it'll be with a factory-wiped phone. In a factory case, so this looks legit. Then I logon, and redownload all my stuff after customs.
Unlike Islam-motivated terrorists of today, the Irish terrorists were motivated by the sense of nationalism, not religion.
The first terrorist attack was conducted by Jewish terrorists killing British and other citizens in an attempt to establish the Israeli state. 90 dead 45 injured.
This contrasts your example of Irish terrorism which was religiously motivated (catholic vs protestant) with Israeli terrorism which did have a nationalist motivation to establish the Israeli state.
If we are to have discussions about terrorism I think that understanding the history of its use helps provide context.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
every war has turncoats
Let me ask then, how many Catholic converts where there in IRA? And how about David Russell, who was a protestant member of IRA?
More importantly, you have not addressed my main point, which is that while statistically Catholics are targeting Protestants, viewing the conflict as religious is misguided, since at the root of it are national grievances. Protestants were not killed because they didn't believe in transubstantiation. They were killed because they were [at least perceived to be] loyalists that supported occupying government which was viewed as repressive.
Posting as AC because I did mod you down and unashamed of it.
Do you really think that I was trolling? As in, trying to upset people by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages? I'm not denying the suffering of those involved, or making fun of them. You might mod me down as “overrated” if you believe that I am wrong, but most posts in /. are misguided. Since my post by default was hidden anyway, there was no need to mod down anyhow.
"borrowed from us in the first place"
Like you, we all borrow from China now.
Who gives a shit? None of the money is real in the first place and it's literally impossible to pay it all back anyway.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
the Irish terrorists were motivated by the sense of nationalism, not religion.
With the Irish those are two sides of the same coin. The Northern Irish at least.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
With an attitude like that you wonder why we don't want you here. Just stay home. We don't care. We have people literally dying to come across our borders to get here. If the US is THAT bad, why are they coming?
Yeah, and you're doing everything possible to fuck them all off as quickly as possible. Those people literally dying to get across the border aren't going to bring money in, exactly the opposite. So you just take that as evidence of your own superiority while even your companies try to get as much of their money out of america as possible.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Controlling who gets in to the country is why we can have nice things like constitutional rights.
The US under Abe Lincoln during the civil war, being a warzone had large areas where constituional rights took a backseat to military necessity.
In the interest of keeping the US not-a-warzone, we need to prevent enemies from entering. It is better to make rights violations a condition for entering than to be forced to abandon rights at all points within the jurisdiction of the US.
And anyway, the constitution only applies to the Jurisdiction of the United States. If you've no visa and are outside the US borders, you have precisely zero constitutional rights. There was a 1980s SCOTUS ruling about that, so it's a pretty solid foundation to base extreme vetting on.
If you have some prior relationship with the US such as a previous visa you MIGHT be able to make a case that you are somehow under the Jurisdiction of the United States and so due constitutional rights, but that's pretty iffy.
IMO, having read through the Koran, it seems obvious that anyone who simply does what it says would be an enemy to me personally and to the values and culture I think have been and hope will always be inherent in what it means to be American. Moderate Muslims are lying to themselves. Maybe some day they will find their way to secularity. But it's not my problem if they stay out of my country.
The constitution was written in the absense ( to a number of decimal places ) of Islam.
The absense of large numbers of Muslims is one of the reason we can have nice things like constitutional rights.
We should do what we can to defend what we have inherited from the enlightenment, and preserve it for future generations.
...
The first terrorist attack, likely, predates written history. It is only in recent decades, that we started to frown on the method as a morally unacceptable one.
Bzzz! An attempt to change subject detected — and rejected.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
the Irish terrorists were motivated by the sense of nationalism, not religion.
With the Irish those are two sides of the same coin. The Northern Irish at least.
And yet, it is not their religion, that motivates them — indeed, fellow Catholics in France, Spain, and Italy neither sympathize with nor sponsor the activity. On contrast, even the areligious Irish sympathize with the struggle — because it is motivated by nationalism, not religion.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
The first terrorist attack, likely, predates written history.
and is therefore contextually irrelevant in this conversation.
It is only in recent decades, that we started to frown on the method as a morally unacceptable one.
I think diplomacy is the only morally acceptable method. That's what made us different from terrorists, you know dialogue.
Bzzz! An attempt to change subject detected — and rejected.
I thought the troll mod was a little unfair. I was giving you an opportunity to re-frame your comment into a context that made more sense so you could elaborate. Looks like I was wrong and the moderation is appropriate.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Said someone, who dragged Jews into a thread about Northern Ireland...
Try it in Syria, post the results (hint — invest in a quality gas-mask before going there).
It was not "a little unfair" — it was utterly bogus. Right or wrong, it was most certainly not a "troll".
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Said someone, who dragged Jews into a thread about Northern Ireland...
The thread was about terrorism. Both are terrorists.
Try it in Syria, post the results (hint — invest in a quality gas-mask before going there).
Diplomacy worked with the IRA.
Right or wrong, it was most certainly not a "troll".
Sure, you're wrong because the IRA advertised religious, not nationalist rhetoric.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Actually, that's debatable — but irrelevant. We were discussing, whether the Irish terrorists were motivated by religion or other sentiment(s).
Out of the blue you switch the topic to Jews, claiming, incorrectly, that they were the first terrorists.
Even stipulating for a second, that targeting an occupier's administration is still terrorism, there certainly have been acts of terrorism before that. Your claim, that the Jews, somehow, were the first, was wrong. False. Liar, liar, pants on fire. Four Pinocchios. Full Stop.
And, of course, it was and remains off-topic. We are done here.
Scores of people remain in prison — kept there on pain of violents.
Now you are talking — back on topic again. Of course, you offer no citations and I'm already too tired of your lies, exaggerations, and topic-switching attempts. As I said, we are done here...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
We were discussing, whether the Irish terrorists were motivated by religion or other sentiment(s).
You said: Unlike Islam-motivated terrorists of today, the Irish terrorists were motivated by the sense of nationalism, not religion.
Which is clearly wrong, the IRA advertised its motivation as religious, as opposed to...
Out of the blue you switch the topic to Jews, claiming
...being nationalistically motivated, as in the case of the Irgun using terrorism to establish the Israeli state.
there certainly have been acts of terrorism before that.
You are free to provide any information you can find to support your claim about the IRA.
Of course, you offer no citations
Perhaps you were so committed to imposing your point of view that you the link I posted in my first post supporting my position. Where is your link supporting your position about the nationalistic goals of the IRA considering how long the Irish state has been established. You position is nonsensical.
and I'm already too tired of your lies, exaggerations, and topic-switching attempts False. Liar, liar, pants on fire. Four Pinocchios. Full Stop.
The standard reaction of an ideologue encountering counter rationalism, an emotional outburst and irrationality. You haven't supported your initial claim, which you accuse me of, despite a link being right in front of you and then try to alter reality when it is right there for anyone to read. Finally you throw tantrum because you can't afford the mental effort of defending your position.
I guess the moderators were right.
As I said, we are done here...
Indeed, it is unlikely that you have anything of value to contribute.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Wrong priorities/targets http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...
Casteism