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More Than Half of US Workers Didn't Use Up Their Time Off Last Year (qz.com)
An anonymous reader shares an article: Americans, famously, take far less vacation time than their European counterparts: less than 17 days, on average, compared to 30 days in France, for example. But for many Americans, that's apparently all the time they need. More than half of all US employees (54%) didn't use all their days off last year, working a combined total of 662 million more days than required. Of those days, 206 million couldn't be rolled over or cashed out, meaning they were forfeited, costing the equivalent of $66 billion, according to a report (PDF) from Project: Time Off, a group funded by the travel industry. While it's a group with a strong interest in promoting more vacations, their findings are still revealing about America's unhealthy reluctance to take time off. Almost 60% of US workers who don't take their allotted vacation say they fear the amount of work they'll have to return to, according to the survey of 7,331 working Americans. Others (47%) say they stay put because they believe no one else can do their job, or because they want to impress their bosses with their dedication (36%).
US workers are absolutely terrified of taking time off lest it gets used against them in a review and they get fired and replaced at a moment's notice. How many people really think anyone at Netflix or elsewhere takes advantage of the ludicrous notion of 'unlimited holidays'? But hey, the American dream........
What if you take 1 week of vacation, then need to work twice as hard the next week? Every small to medium business I saw theses past years had this consequence for vacation. It's simply better to not take them.
It's not 'cause they didn't wanna. It's 'cause they died.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
if we only had EU workers rights or an union!
In the EU they can't block you from taking time off.
A lot of other people (and myself) have combined leave (sick and vacation) hours. I don't use all my leave because you never know when you might be sick, and if you get laid off it's nice to have some extra money that you get by cashing in your excess PTO hours.
I get 20 days of PTO each year and only 10 days will rollover into the new year. If I don't use it, then I'll lose it. Everyone at my job takes time off throughout year. I typically take time off for comic cons and work through the year-end holidays while everyone else takes time off.
Because my work is pretty much like a vacation. At a huge defense contractor, the company expects so little work out of me that it is shocking. They give me 120 hours to write a SEMP. Really? So four hours later the SEMP is done, and I have 116 hours to read books, run two outside businesses, and, oh yeah, post on Slashdot. I once complained to my boss (maybe 25 years ago) that I wanted more work, and he literally told me that if he gave me more, someone else wouldn't have any, and he wanted to maintain headcount. Sit back, charge my time, make no waves. I have this daydream about calling the waste, fraud, and abuse hotline and telling them that the whole company is endless waste. Perhaps when I retire in 5 years.
CAPTCHA: Adapts
In the US, we reward hard work with promotions and higher salaries. In Europe, they just tax the wealthy while the six hour work days and bans on checking email outside of work decrease productivity. It's hard work versus socialism taxing successful people. One of these leads to a strong economy, the other to massive debt. There's no incentive to be successful in Europe, anyway, because the government will just take your money away with taxes to pay for ridiculous social programs that would be unnecessary if people just had jobs and worked 40 hour weeks.
- snruter rotsac
Either this post is ironic, or you are so deep in the tank you don't even know there's a tank.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
...and it's not because I love work.
The simple fact is that if I'm gone for a day, the amount of work I come back to is more than a day's worth.
-Styopa
Just because you "have" vacation on paper doesn't mean you can actually take vacation.
No. It means you should take vacation, which is a concept that fewer and fewer Americans can grasp or understand.
Some time away from the thing in your life that creates some of the worst stress and physical abuse would probably benefit an individual greatly. It would benefit an entire society greatly if that mentality were to become infectious, and help reset US workplace expectations and respect for what the hard working employees do provide when they are there.
Even if you could not actually afford to "go away" on vacation, just relaxing for a few days can have a considerable benefit.
That's because in America Gaslighting is the status quo especially in corporate America. It takes this form: "You are weak and should fear job loss if you don't work 80 hours a week." Basically, the labor shortage that was brought on by the Great Recession which was brought on by the Foreclosure crisis scared people to death. Corporate America wasted no time using this as an opportunity to terrorize the work force into being "more productive" with complete disregard for employee health. Also, this isn't really news. The good news is we are about to hit a boom cycle hopefully. Boom/bust economics folks.
We'll make great pets
The boss might find they can get along just fine without you.
photosMy Photostream
(This is a generalization, I don't want to see hundreds of posts stating that they are the exception)
In general Americans will define themselves on what they do. When meeting a new person, one of the first questions asked is what do they do for a living. We use the answer of this question to help define and place themselves in society. Before you realize how unfair this is, other cultures, will make the same judgments based on family, religion, race, political standing, their dress, their car...
Being that what we do for work is a key part of our identity, we prefer to spend a good portion in enforcing and strengthening it. While the numbers show the opposite, taking time off, we get the perception that we will be considered lazy, not a team player, and not productive if we take too much vacation. So we usually keep these vacation days, not as vacation but as emergency time off days.
Also we subconsciously control our work environment so we necessary as an individual to the institution, and poorly sharing your information with other workers. So if you take time off, you get back with a weeks worth of work that you will need to do, being an other intensive to not take time off.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
At my last job (retail), at one point, I had built up enough time off to take two weeks in a row off, and still have some time off left. So, you know, I did.
A week into the vacation, I go into work to pick up my paycheck (because direct deposit through the job was specifically not working for me), and my manager is there. On a Saturday morning. Which never happens.
He takes one look at me, and says "Never again." "What?" "I'm never letting you take two weeks off IN A ROW again." Apparently, nobody but me really liked working the graveyard shift, AND all the weirdos and jerks who I normally dealt with came in during the first week and had a collective case of the chapped ass.
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
Just because the time wasn't used doesn't mean it wasn't needed. Perhaps those workers just couldn't afford the time off.
unlimited holidays = we can call you when on one of them to remote work if needed.
I noticed that the PDF did not list that travelling sucks as a reason. It could be that reason did not crack the top 5 or 10, but it's up there for me. The airlines and TSA have made travel an absolute nightmare. It used to be fun to hop on a plane. Now it's excruciating as I watch a TSA agent pat down my teenage daughter because she had a pudding cup in her backpack.
I actively avoid flying at all costs now. Screw that. Screw them. I haven't been on a cruise ship, but I hear mixed stories ranging from "amazing" to "nightmare". Like everything else in this world, if you want people to do something (like travel), then make it as easy as possible. Right now, the cost isn't worth the hassle.
I could see more of the world, meet great people, be forced to apologize to them for the shit-show we've become lately, and spend a hell of a lot of money to do that. Or, as a tabletop gamer, I could just drive to Origins, Gen Con, BGG, PAX, or similar convention and have a great time playing games at minimal cost and downtime at work.
I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be wrong.
I know plenty of self-employed people in Europe. They take vacations all the time.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
If your job is creating that much stress and physical abuse, then you are in the wrong job or field of work.
In the US, you're stupid. In the EU, we are intelligent. End of the discussion. Enjoy your shithole of a society, slave.
the EU makes it a right to have paid time off in usa under the unions they got that but to bad now days union jobs are going away.
If your job is creating that much stress and physical abuse, then you are in the wrong job or field of work.
Not all abuse is physical. I was also addressing the mental aspect, as even the simplest most repetitive tasks dictate a break. We are human, not robots.
Bottom line is vacation is an aspect of employment that should be rewarded and respected. If employers aren't going to do that, then remove it, not provide some bullshit illusion that it actually exists or you can take advantage of it. And that goes for ALL employees, including executives and managment.
For those unfamiliar with the employer "benefit" of "Paid Time Off", it's a system where your "sick time" and "vacation time" are pushed together. So you get to make choices like "should I stay home with this fever/cold/bronchitis/stomach flu/kidney stone OR do I get to see my family at the holidays this year?" and "I already paid for that cruise, I'll just bring in four boxes of kleenex and power through". I get that PTO is an accountant's wet dream, combining all those liabilities into one column on the balance sheet. In reality, it becomes a fantastic way for everyone to bring their germs into the office and spread their sickness and being ineffective at work when they should be at home getting better, so they can see their family at the holidays. My employer says "if you are sick, stay home", and there's no number of "counted" sick time. Some years I've not taken a sick day, other years I've been out two weeks. It's not like kidney stones or bronchitis were the same as sipping a drink out of a coconut on a tropical beach, or that I planned it.
A lot of people aren't interested in simply sitting around the house, and don't have the disposable income to spend it on traditional airfare, hotels, extra tanks of gas, food out, and other "vacation"-ish activities. Yes, there are plenty of cheap (or free) things to do. But many typical 40-hour-a-week types already DO those things evenings and weekends all year long. Don't underestimate the "I can't afford a vacation anyway, and don't feel like sitting at home so I can have a really sucky following week catching up on my work" factor.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
That's because you made your business about you instead of building a business that can work without you.
I was told by a former boss that "If a person could be gone for two weeks from their job then that person's position in the company is unnecessary."
I was repeatedly denied vacation requests during my time there. It got to the point where I would just tell my boss to tell me what week would be best for them if I took a week off.
I'm at a much better place now that don't hold these views but they are quite common here in America.
I honestly think that given our history - a country founded by Puritans, an early economy supported by slavery, and is seemingly in the process of destroying the middle-class by establishing an oligarchy/plutocracy has these sorts of attitudes about time off.
I consider myself extremely lucky to work for a company that lets vacation to continue to accrue no matter how much gets accrued. None gets lost to the annual purge like many companies. Still have to plan ahead to actually use it in significant amounts, but it's an option to keep it till you would even have a whole year of vacation built up. And bonus if I really want to I can "sell" it back to the company and get cash instead.
lol! Agreed! ;)
Those poor, abused millionaires!
After all that heavy taxing at the end of the day all they have left is their millions.
Would someone please think of the millionaires?
Having worked in Europe (Vienna) for some time..... The work week was a cakewalk. 40h / week with Catholic holidays. Healthcare seemed good. Retirement seemed good. Public services (transportation) was good. The bad? Taxes were literally 50%.
Here in the US, I work 90h a week. Good healthcare for my family costs me $38k a year. I've trained overseas replacements six times, and been fired twice, only to be rehired as my overseas replacements quit due to lack of competency.
I get 35 paid holidays. I am required to take them. I can transfer 5 to next year and those I have to take before then end of February. If I don't, they are gone forever. That is not the issue. The issue is that I will pay 85% income tax on it, so I get almost nothing.
The 5 days and end February depends from company to company. Once company the HR manager (Why are they always women?) came to me on a Friday mid Febfruaryand said I still had 10 days I had to take before the end of February. I asked if it was possible to extend it, because I thought it was end of March (as in the previous company I worked at) She said no and I said to my boss: See you in twee weeks.
He was not happy, but could do nothing.
In Belgium this is pretty standard. The manager should pay attention that not too many people keep their holidays and wait till e.g. end of December and take of the holidays. That is also why you can transfer days. That way they can refuse those specific days.
The taking of holidays, when to ask for them and such are all written into law. Extentions in favour of the employees are possible (e.g. transferring the days to next year) are possible from company to company. It might even differ from department to department.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
>In Europe, they just tax the wealthy while the six hour work days and bans on checking email outside of work decrease productivity
Nope. Having worked in both Europe and the US, I can confidently say that the high-performing people are equally productive. In Europe they actually go on holidays and take time with their families too.
My personal observations have led me to conclude that this american productivity thing is a total myth. It seems to me more about some fucked up 'I work harder than you' competition. When in reality you don't.
Not to mention the countless studies showing that working too many hours burns you out and decreases productivity in the long run.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2014/12/working-hours
Well the whole thing is a false dichotomy. Is that enough?
Funny because US debt is about 20 trillion and EU 12 trillion. I guess all that vacation saving and hard work is not paying off.
Time you don't take off before you quit has to be paid out. Now, to make sure that your company CAN actually pay the time they "owe" you if you quit today and they go bankrupt the same day, your company has to stash money in government bonds to the tune of what they'd have to pay their workers if all of them went out the door today.
Calculate about, say, 25 vacation days per worker, for a workforce of, say 10,000. Let's be conservative and say that a day/person is about 100 bucks.
Can you see how companies can have a HUGE interest in their workers actually going on vacation, and doing it as early as possible?
I MUST spend my vacation every year. They now even made it a bonus-valued goal, not to spend my vacation days and letting them roll over threatens my annual bonus. And since March I get weekly reminders from HR that I still have 10 unplanned days and that beautiful days are coming up, and whether I don't feel like taking some of the upcoming Fridays (with Thu being a holiday) off to enjoy a 4 days weekend.
I kid you not.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
To the comments above, are people really getting promoted enough to be worth that? I can't say I have ever worked with anyone who got very far where I work.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
We are human, not robots.
And there's why they're trying to replace you with robots right now.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
>"Almost 60% of US workers who don't take their allotted vacation say they fear the amount of work they'll have to return to,"
Yep, that is me. When I take off time to "rest and recover", I come back to an even more stressful mess. Not exactly restful. The only true time off I get is when others in the facility are also off at the same time... meaning holidays. Except most of the facility is still "open" 24/7/365 so even that is a shot-in-the-dark.
How many standard holidays does the US have VS the European countries being considered in this article?
Would that mean that you are prohibited from vacationing in areas where you would not be reachable remotely, eg, camping in the mountains?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Either this post is ironic, or you are so deep in the tank you don't even know there's a tank.
Not that you could be troubled to even hint at why he's incorrect, and instead lazily attack the messenger.
No, I indeed could not be troubled. I gain no benefit from futile attempts to disabuse strangers on the Internet of their ignorant beliefs. But, since you bothered to respond, I'll count them down.
In the US, we reward hard work with promotions and higher salaries.
This is patently ridiculous. I hope I don't have to demonstrate the myriad examples of hard-working people not being promoted or getting higher salaries. Look at the people who clean your office, or pick your lettuce for examples.
In Europe, they just tax the wealthy while the six hour work days and bans on checking email outside of work decrease productivity.
Obviously Europe does more than tax the wealthy, and people work more than 6 hours a day (Yes, Sweden experimented with a 6 hour work day). Slightly reducing productivity (if a ban on after-work email even resulted in that) is not really a huge deal.
It's hard work versus socialism taxing successful people. One of these leads to a strong economy, the other to massive debt.
This is quite simplistic, I hope you would agree. Europe has a strong economy and the US has massive debt. I'm not saying Europe is better, or has no debt, or that the US is not hard working or does not have a strong economy. I'm just saying the OP has a very simplistic view of a complex interplay between business, labor, the social contract and the role of the state.
There's no incentive to be successful in Europe, anyway, because the government will just take your money away with taxes to pay for ridiculous social programs that would be unnecessary if people just had jobs and worked 40 hour weeks.
Again, this is ridiculous. There are many wealthy Europeans. This idea that taxation keeps people from being productive and building businesses, that they will just sit on their hands because taxes are just too damn high, is not borne out by evidence. The poster also ignores the fact that Capitalism has manifestly failed to provide for the majority of the population. Many people work 40 hours a week and still need social assistance. So the assertion that employing people at 40 hours will eliminate the need for social programs is just plain flat wrong.
As I said, the post is either sarcastic, or just stupid. I hope it is now more clear as to why.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Vacation time is important. As is going home after 10 days. I get no use out of someone who is ruining his (mental) health over some perceived "requirement" who is gone for good with burnout half a year later. It takes almost a YEAR in my business until I can rely on someone. Hire and fire doesn't work here, and simply burning through people isn't an option. Not to mention that good security people are hard to come by in the first place.
And people who sit and work for 10+ hours increase their mistake rate. What good is someone who stays another 2 hours only to create enough trouble that he or someone else has to invest another 4 hours to undo it?
That has nothing to do with being lazy, that's simple human nature. We are not machines. And we don't work like ones.
Then again, I have worked in the US, and by that pace I could also work 14 hours. I'd rather just work 7 and get more accomplished by simply WORKING during the time I'm working, though.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
"Why do you pick up the phone?" would be my first question.
The next ones would deal with questioning your mental health...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
My former colleagues in the USA were more concerned with NOT losing their job while on vacation than promotion or salary hikes. That was why they didn't take their vacation days. The thought of taking four weeks (20 days) holiday in one go was just not on their radar.
It is so easy to fire people in the USA compared to Europe. There are all sorts of legal procedures that you have to go through such as written warnings etc that firing someone for taking their legal vacation would not be allowed. If a company did it then they'd be breaking the law. The same goes for firing someone who is ill in Hospital.
I'd rather be riding my '63 Triumph T120.
It's important to be careful with accounting as all too often reports can be skewed by hiding funny math in accounting assumptions.
Here, for example, it's not actually a cost that vacation isn't taken. If the worker didn't value the vacation time enough to take it, then it didn't have value in the first place, and seeing the worker let it go is really just a reflection of the lack of value.
It's like a person declining an offer of dog food because he doesn't have a dog: that's not a cost; it's a lack of benefit.
The substantial difference is on the other side of the ledger, though. Workers who work more provide value to society, making more food, providing more customer service, and building more cars for the rest of us. There is no cost to a worker not taking vacation, but there IS a benefit to a worker who's more productive because he stays on the job.
In short, it's a good thing that workers work.
Don't forget that's also 510M people Vs 325M people so per capita the US debt is about 2.6 times the EU.
Banks have forced full time off to stop embezzlement
Who the heck wants to have 0 vacation days? In my case it is just PTO, so if I get sick or have some personal emergency it is good to have some kind of buffer available.
love is just extroverted narcissism
If the majority of Americans can't come up with 500$ for an emergency they probably don't have money saved for a vacation either.
love is just extroverted narcissism
well bob we have really have unlimited time out of the office but we want to be in for core hours for about 85-90% of the year. But some people like jay are in the office 125%-150% of the time and we want to be like jay on this job.
There is a story, probably apocryphal, that in the UK banking industry, staff used to be required to take a minimum break of 2 consecutive weeks. The reasoning being that if they were involved in a scam, it would probably come to light during that time from whoever took over their work. Whereas a staff member might be able to cover up wrongdoings if they were only on vacation for a week.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
We are human, not robots.
And there's why they're trying to replace you with robots right now.
Sigh. Can't even argue with this fact. The sad reality is Greed is insatiable. Not even the impact of humans being unemployable will stop it.
Time off is expensive. Going anywhere or doing anything typically requires that you spend money. If you don't have the money to spend, you won't be going on many vacations.
If your spouse works and your kids are in school, what good is staying home? Sitting at home just to burn vacation time sucks. If I'm not laying on a beach somewhere, I'd rather be working.
I have worked for roughly a handful of different companies in my IT career and vacation benefits were all over the map. I worked for the federal government once and we got a ton of vacation time. I really liked that and used it, but I remember having two older co-workers who would basically never take a day off because they were truly convinced that the entire US government would collapse if they were gone. Maybe they took 2 days at most of vacation. We had a program where you could donate vacation to fellow employees who had catastrophic illnesses (ie. cancer) and would be out a lot and they used to donate tons of vacation days to that.
I worked in the US office of a European company and we got European vacation benefits on a PTO system. I loved it and thought it was great. I'd still be working there just for the vacation time had the company not gotten rid of a lot of US employees in my city to save money.
My current employer is a US based Fortune 500 company who treats us pretty well in general, but on the downside they have acted like every vacation day we take is stealing from their very soul. No PTO here. We don't get sick leave, but if you are sick for a day or two, you can just stay home and get paid - no vacation time used. If you're out for, I think, 4 days or more, you have to go on short term disability. We got a new, younger CEO a few years ago and he bumped up our vacation time a little bit and they stopped acting like taking vacation was almost like killing the company, but still it will never, ever equal what I was getting with the US government or the European company. They severely limit how much vacation time we can carry over (5 days) and pretty much force us to burn it up. If you really just refuse to take a vacation you can just throw your days in the trash I guess, but I've never heard of that. We get a lot of reminders to use vacation time and there is a policy in my organization that encourages you to use your vacation so you are better rested. I've never heard of anybody having anything negative happen to them because they used vacation time, which is good, but I still wish they were more generous with the amount we get. A lot of US companies are like mine, and they're just not all that generous with vacation time, but at least when we do use it there is no punishment for doing so.
Poe's Law, when you can't differentiate the true believers from the satirical comedians.
Currently, Wal-mart actually pays you the time due (and actually, this was the first year). I hadn't taken any of my time off, so I got roughly a month's pay extra on that paycheck ...
some needs to win the lotto in a place like that and really quit hard after not showing up for a few days. And then that ass hole PHB will get the idea.
Well that was expected but I do not agree that US workers do not need all their vacation.
The biggest difference between Europe and US has to do with working mentality and how the workers' rights are PRACTICALLY respected.
With respect to mentality, the average european won't do overtime just because he is ask to (or ordered to do so) just like that (even if he/she is being paid for that). The average european seek a balance between work and personal life. The employer also does not find it "easy" to ask for the employees to stay more, take less vacation days (or re-arrange vacations). Lastly, I think that the average european does not run so much behind "money" and big-fat salary pay slips...
BUT when it comes to "rights", well lets put it this way in most of the european countries working rights are quite well enstablished (contrary to US). Moreover, these rights are RESPECTED (and sometimes even enforced by the employer). This means in practice that employer expects (and plan) based on e.g. 25/30 days of vacation per employee. Moreover, as said before it is not trivial to ask employees to work overtime or take less vacation or in the US way "The work has to be done!" (Don't care if you have to work 24/7, take less vacations etc). Plus the fear of getting sacked for that reasons is virtually non existent in Europe.
I didn't, for one very important reason: we don't get to "cash" in any unused days at the end of the year, but instead roll them over. Unused vacation time is only paid out on separation.
My accumulated vacation time (over 115 days worth) is essentially my severance package if anything were to go wrong with work (ie, layoffs, firing, outsourcing etc - it's a government job so the organization can't really "go out of business")..
It's not like I never take a day off, but I try to take fewer than I earn for sure.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
Personally, I don't use every single day of vacation because I'm never secure in my job. That's just the nature of the work we're in...if the MBAs ever get around to replacing us with someone cheaper, I'm out no matter how skilled and useful I am. We're only allowed to bank 5 days of vacation, but I tend to hang onto it because honestly that's an extra week of pay at a time where I might need it. The fact remains that the US is a very hostile environment to be unemployed in; unemployment insurance barely covers anything if you've had anything approaching a middle class job previously.
I work for an employer that treats people pretty well on balance...it's very true that there are a lot of sweatshops out there and people continue to work there for many reasons. Web startups and small businesses would probably be at the low end of the spectrum -- most businesses I've worked with in the small to medium category already treat non-family employees as "the help" and are extremely stingy when it comes to pay, time off and benefits. Web startups are their own brand of crazy because everyone's hoping to win the IPO or buyout lottery. At the other extreme end of the spectrum, I know a lot of people who work for the state and can actually bank all of their sick and vacation time, to be paid out at the end of their service. Most people use this windfall to buy into insurance that will last them through their retirement...and along with their pension they are able to enjoy a worry-free retirement just like the old days.
Most people I work with are older and fewer management "tricks" work on us. But, there are still plenty of younger domestic workers who haven't learned that employers will take anything they can from employees and fall into the trap of working crazy hours. I'm by no means a clock-watcher; my employer routinely gets tons of "free" work out of me, but I do this because they also offer me a lot of flexibility. Everyone's trade-offs are different; I trade off raw salary for better retirement benefits, a shorter commute and a better ratio of home to work time. Other workers might just want the money regardless of how bad the work environment is, or they may trade off even more salary for a more stable job working in something like government, or they absolutely have to work for the hottest Silicon Valley employer. I do think employers should staff accordingly so that people can actually take time off from work -- so many places I've seen will only hire one person skilled in some job function, effectively chaining them to their desks or slowing down everyone else when they do need to be off.
I'll vouch for this, at least when I was working for a bank. We were required to take 5 consecutive days off every year. During that time we weren't to have anything to do with work. The intent is to have someone else do your job for those days to see if anything hinky is going on.
And it works. An AVP got called back on day 4 of his mandatory 5 because he had been kiting checks for a client and it got caught out while he was gone. He left with his stuff in a box.
Monitoring IT folks is more difficult due to the amount of automation we can build into our jobs but we're also rarely near where the money moves around. Regardless - work for a bank, mandatory 5.
It took me 5 years to reach my employers three weeks per year of time off. I made long weekends taking off a Monday or Friday. Originally there was separate sick and vacation days buy my Union caved in and I lost seven says per year. I explored Oregon, Washington, California, Arizona and New Mexico. My manager hated when I took off and the people I assigned to take care of things usually failed, leaving me two weeks to fix things.
I would explain, but I'm on vacation.
"Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
Did the 38k/year in medical end up taking more out of your salary than the 50 percent tax would have, given the other public services I assume were included in that 50 percent income tax?
I often hear people complaining about how terrible 50 percent tax is compared to America, but they seem to gloss over how bad pricing for private service equivalents of what those taxes pay for have gotten here in the US.
No, but combine that with SS, UI, DD&D, school tax, property tax, etc, and it's about even 'if' nothing happens to me or my fam. One broken leg and I'm dipping into savings. Add to the cost of private transportation... Basically, here in the states I work twice as hard for roughly the same financial return, but incur a non-trivial additional risk if I fall off the happy path (injury, layoff, automobile accident, etc).
The part that pins me is that I'm sooooo tired of carrying other people. I've done my fair share for well over two decades at this point, and I'm tired now.... Two more decades to go, and I don't know if I have it in me.
Last note... Our health insurance was $12K pre-AHCA. I'm literally paying for two other families health care now.
I usually have 3-4 days of unused vacation time. I'm single, have no kids, don't like to travel. Homebody. Other than photography that gets me out, that's about it.
Taxation isn't theft, dipshit.
and China's labor are not fully enforced as well.
I don't think it's going to be as big a problem as it's been made out to be every advancement prior has ended up creating new jobs or allowing new jobs to exist. Although I think we are going to have to put a lot more focus on retraining people so they can find a new job.
Change is a PITA.
Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
Like writing grammatically-poor, typo-filled ebooks with weak plot, non-existent characterization, and no redeeming literary value, then putting them on Amazon in the hopes that someone will be dumb enough to buy them so you can make 30 cents?
Amazon ebook sales are dead in the water because I refused to be locked into "the world's largest marketplace" via KDP Select. A majority of my ebook sales are through Smashwords ($0.54 per copy).
This is what we're supposed to see as an example to be emulated?
Revenues from ebook sales and ads are but two of the 30 revenue streams that I have. I get paid whether or not I do any work on the side business.
My wife and I bank a week of vacation for between Christmas and New Years every year. We don't travel, because holiday travel sucks. What we do is just chill at home. Do inside projects. Sit in coffee shops and watch the snow fall. It's marvelous. Best vacation of the year, because we don't have to deal with travel. Usually about 10 straight days of no alarms, lazy mornings, and a detachment from work.
I don't get the other half of the people in the US who don't use their time. Vacation significantly increases our productivity in the weeks that follow.
Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
"Americans, famously, take far less vacation time than their European counterparts"
Famously? I'd call it 'stupidly'.
Additionally they come to work before their boss and leave after him, without compensation naturally and they come to work even when sick, thus infecting everybody else in the company.
And now most of them will lose their health insurance or pay a couple of hundred percent more.
It sucks to be you.
Meanwhile, millennials love "unlimited time off" vacation policies. Use it or lose it policies are a major reason employees use what little time off they do use. Companies love UTO because you use less time off and we don't have to carry the liability or deal with complicated accrual accounting. Or pay out any PTO balance when you quit. Great work, millennials.
In some other country, our unions fought hard for us to have proper holidays. Now I take 2 (two) 15-days off, paid, during the year. We also have a 33% bonus added for spending during vacation. I take 15-day at every 6-month and come renewed for working even harder. Would never accept to work as a horse in US receiving carrots for that. My off-life is more important than work, always.
Always be sure to vacation in places without cell phone coverage.
-- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
Don't confuse work and life. You work to live, you don't live to work, that's what differentiates us from beasts of burden. Yes, I love what I do and I'm good at it, but I put my tools down at the end of the day and go home. I garden, I make cheese, I backpack. I unapologetically use up all my time off. When I first started working, I didn't use any and I burned out.
I once had a boss complain to me that use all my vacation time, I ask them if they'd like to go to HR and formally complain I'm using the vacation time that's part of my compensation package. Oddly, they didn't. I then pointed out that they thought it was sad that the company I should value my job over my health and my family. I pointed out that when I'm on the clock I work my ass off. I then mentioned that first line I wrote. Oddly, after that he started using all his vacation time and become a happier person, and a better manager.
As for co-workers saying stuff, they have and I always respond with some variation of "Yup, thirty years from now I'll still have the photos from these trips and the memories but I won't remember a single line of code I've written today"
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
They haven't been giving enough of their time to the job! They should feel ashamed. Never have we had a generation that refused to sleep, eat, and shit at work. The nerve of these horrible bums. They should be grateful for the age they live in. And Then they ask for a raise, HA! As if they've earned it. You don't get living wages unless you work for them and you people surely haven't even rolled out of bed yet. Time off indeed. /sarcasm
Yet, if you look at every fricking article on millennials, that's the drivel you'll get. But I suppose all of that extra work and discarded free time was given by those who are at least 40+ years old right?
Nevermind most of us (everyone not just millennials) have no job security. If we don't show up, we wouldn't have a job the next day. Also try taking that time off, most of the time you can't leave if someone else in your department / team / etc. gets there first, even if there's others who can still do the job that day. Forget about taking it during peak periods, and even when you do get it, you'll get guilt tripped to hell and back by everyone when you return, as if you killed the Pope.
Heck today, because of cellphones, there's a bunch of people who never leave work. They are basically on call 24/7 and get no compensation for it, with the assumption that you'll do it at home and bring it in at the start of your next shift. (Perfectly legal btw as long as you signed that job application.)
Finally, do I really need to say anything about the wages? No? Good.
There's a reason people in the US work this hard, it's because we have no other choice.
People in the US seem not to think of vacation as a priority. They often sacrifice everything on the altar of getting ahead at the office. While this kind of competitive attitude is (I think) partly responsible for the way the US dominates the world economy, it also takes a toll on the people who prioritize their time this way.
I've always made it a priority to take time off. When I work, I work hard. When I'm on vacation, I'm really on vacation. That philosophy has never cost me at work, I've had no problems climbing the corporate ladder. I'd guess that if more people looked at it this way, they would find that they too don't suffer at work for taking time off.
Creimer, I know nothing about you, but I always recognize when you post because some rabid AC is always posting after you. ...You participated in a discussion on politics, didn't you?
A typical yearly accrual is just barely enough for a reasonable vacation. Unfortunately, there is always a need to take off a day here and a day there throughout the year. In the end, there isn't enough time unless your idea of a vacation is a staycation or a long weekend. Thus, for those who really like to travel, it often necessary to accrue for a second year to get enough time to actually go someplace. This is especially true when starting a new job. Since you start at zero, there is virtually no chance for a vacation the first year. My last job only lasted two and a half years. I never did manage that vacation. Between unsteady contracts, short duration jobs and actual unemployment, I haven't had a real vacation in seven years. Since I only started the current job two months ago, it will be at least another year before that dry spell ends.
Americans are raised brainwashed. Corporate culture has spread into the workers (the last place you'd imagine.) People brag about how little vacation they use - it's a point of pride! Letting work get into your private life is also the norm; the opposite of Germany where it's illegal to email you on vacation. Also we all cheer when "productivity" goes up completely unaware of what that usually means and how shallow those numbers usually are. The idea that jobs/employers/capitalism exists to provide work so people can have a better life has completely died off... we are supposed to worship the "job creators" and quietly sacrifice jobs and wages on the alter of the almighty "job creators." The classic argument for capitalism is dead-- which is a socialist argument btw; the very selling point has gone and only mindless dogma remains. It's like the Star Trek reboots, or putting a MacOS theme on Windows-- it's shallow stuff to fool simple people.
People also fear (often wrongly) that they will be harmed in some way for using their rights.... but we also have almost no rules for firing in this country unless you are a minority or a woman with a lot of proof; HR is designed to come up with legally safe ways of doing illegal and immoral acts. Other countries with different rules do not allow you to easily be fired for some political bumper sticker (actual true story around here.)
The sole purpose for business in the USA is to maximize profits, the important aspects of providing jobs with some purpose have been forgotten and attacked dogmatically. As robots take over more people will wake up to the old ideas. We already have many demanding tariffs and ending free trade deals (most those people are only partially awake and unable to argue against the BS economists who always preach for the status quo, who are like televangelist preachers.)
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
The difference this time is that, not only are we automating currently existing jobs, but we're also automating all of the possible replacement jobs -- because our automation is approaching the level of dexterity and flexibility of actual humans, and anything humans could move into doing could also be done by the automation. It's easy to say "retrain", but what are people going to retrain to when all of the things they are physically capable of doing are also automated? Just because it's always worked like that in the past doesn't mean it'll always work like that.
Perhaps you disagree that we're getting close to that level of automation this time around, but we're going to get to it at some point. (And I'd argue that the extremely rapid progress of AI recently suggests that we're beginning to get close.)
Most people spend more money on vacations than during days of work. If more people are taking vacations, then more people are spending money, then there is more demand on goods and services are required, then you will get increased production of these goods and services, and more people are required to produces these goods and services, thus more jobs, so on. If guided properly, vacation, in general, is good for the economy.
Does not match that of many others....
I've been with the same organization for some time, so I get a fair amount of vacation now. However where I work we are allowed to rollover up to one full years worth of vacation. As a result I never use all my vacation really. I keep rolling it over more less to keep the maximum amount allowed available. I do this for three reasons.
1) Is perhaps I'd like to take a big trip or more vacation some year, that way I have the days available to me,
2) I know if I were to be laid off, they would have to pay out my vacation time, which would give me a nice cash buffer to work with should that ever happen, and
3) I figure all things being equal, should layoffs occur and management be considering laying off employee A who they don't have to pay out, or employee B who they would have to pay out many thousands of dollars, they are probably going to layoff employee A. Particularly if layoffs are to do with saving money (which is usually is), and management is rewarded for finding said savings (which they probably are)...
Anyway not really sure if #3 is a thing, but it makes sense to me.
There's a problem in your employment relationship, and it is likely really holding your career back. If it's the company, you should leave and find an employer who is less dysfunctional.
If it's not the company, then it's your own attitude.
Companies certainly are never perfect, but in general they operate in their interest, which in general is keeping their strong people happy. I worry about my strong people leaving all the time -- as I'm falling asleep at night, on weekends, etc.
There's also a group of people that is just good enough that they're still here, but I don't worry at all about them leaving. I guess that also could be a potential explanation for what you're experiencing.
I have only had this feeling once in any job, after my most recent promotion. The immediacy of my new position meant if I missed a deadline that appears today by noon tomorrow our company could get hit with a five figure fine. My response is to change the job in a way that allows for vacation - proper scheduling of payments, cross-training redundancy with coworkers, making daily/weekly immediate tasks more automated and so on. Yes, this involved presenting the changes to management and some arguments, but persistence pays off when you have a good argument. You still have a couple hours of organization to do after a long vacation but it's not like nothing got done while you were gone.
I thought Slashdot was full of automation experts? What gives? The only major thing I can imagine is that too many here unintentionally isolate their work and processes via poor social skills. I used to think communication wasn't important but then I grew up. From my position, a desk that can't go unworked for two days or a week is either a poorly designed job or an entrepreneur. Small businesses that do this are the ones that don't grow because they continually harvest their "human" resources by cutting at the root rather than harvesting the fruit each season and letting them grow.
Often it just means any "vacation pay" is rolled into your salary, and then actual time off is unpaid. It is just paid time off + flexible scheduling + hyperbole.
I'm confident something will come up. None of the jobs we're doing now were conceivable 100 years ago, the future is gonna be even more strange and wonderful.
Perhaps robots will pay to watch humans do irrational emotional stuff, or there will be hipster robots that want human hand knit gluten free shawls. Robots will be loaded with their 24/7 productivity.
Man, you really need that seminar!
I stress this to my crew. I am a supervisor for a rough and tough group of guys in the building trades. We are tasked with such things as performing miracles, being in two places at once, and doing it all with an insufficient staff, budget, and schedule.
Based on the square footage of the locations we maintain, we should have over 40 tradespeople. We have 10. That means that, even if they worked all day each day, we would still be behind. In our situation, the options include working more, reducing services, and contracting out the difference. We use a combination of the three.
I understand how hard all of my guys work. I let them off any time they like, though on any given day I want to keep at least one person in each craft. The policy where we work is that I can deny personal leave if I have insufficient coverage, but I cannot deny sick leave. I make sure my guys are well aware of this policy, especially when I cannot let them off on personal time.
It's a perfect time for being wasted.
A perfect time to watch the stars.
- Burden Brothers, "Beautiful Night"
the EU makes it a right to have paid time off in usa under the unions they got that but to bad now days union jobs are going away.
Not just a right, its a law. Under EU law you have to take 20 days off at a minimum and you cannot sell back any of those 20 days.
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
I read an article months ago about how employees on vacation are not allowed to even receive email, in that it never gets delivered. I spoke with my boss about it and we were both under the impression that was a good idea.
Now we're not quite at that level where I work in the US but I was given approval to word my out-of-office message in a way that basically said "when I return from vacation, your email will go straight to the trash. contact me after this date if the issue is pending".
I was gone for 2 weeks, when I came back I had only 2 people follow up with me.
I learned 2 things - 1st: that most "hot" issues are really not that important and 2nd: the world doesn't stop when I'm gone.
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
Last note... Our health insurance was $12K pre-AHCA. I'm literally paying for two other families health care now.
The $12K is too much, I'm paying ~$6K in Australia (private + the earmarked Medicare levy) and have left hospital after orthopedic surgery owing $0.
The US medical system is the problem, and the invisible hand is never going to fix that, it's not broken according to those profiting from it.
Boy, it's great to work in an industry where you have the option of leaving one job and being hired in another job in short order, sometimes even at a higher salary. In the US, in many sectors, I think most people are hanging on as best they can to a dysfunctional job because if they quit, they'd be like their out-of-work relatives who have been looking for a job for the past two years.
You should watch this video, which does a better job covering this than I could. For one thing, it points out (at 13:28) that our top 30 most common jobs, covering almost half the workforce, actually did exist 100 years ago (and it's not like the next 30 jobs are all new either).
If the boss was reasonable, this would not come up in the first place. If you talk it over with them then they will just not like you, and you will move up a slot on the potential redundancy list. Do not waste time talking to a bully unless you have power.
Getting a job elsewhere wont work. If the industry you are in had job openings then you would not have this problem in the fist place. You will find similar attitudes in other related employers, and moving will just look bad on your resume.
But the good news is that if you say Yes Sir often enough, and smile as you are being beaten, then you may eventually become a boss, and then be able to inflict pain on others. It will seem normal and the right thing to do, because you have been on the receiving end for so long.
The solution is political. Join a union (secretly), even though it costs you a little money. Join the Democratic party, and contribute -- yes you will only have a tiny influence, but that is better than none at all.
And stop voting for people that will make America great again.
Tech unemployment in 17Q1 in the US is 2.5%. That's a national rate, so it is skewed by SV, Austin, NYC, etc., but it's a pretty good market for employees and a pretty tough market for recruiting employers.
But you are taking my "leave and find another job" humorously literally. I agree it would be more prudent to get another job first.
I don't think it's going to be as big a problem as it's been made out to be every advancement prior has ended up creating new jobs or allowing new jobs to exist. Although I think we are going to have to put a lot more focus on retraining people so they can find a new job.
Change is a PITA.
The next wave is not going to be anything like history, because automation will replace human employment with solutions that will be superior in every way, including cost. Or should I say especially cost.
And it won't even take full-fledged AI to replace the rest. AI-like systems will be good enough to replace many more jobs that previously required humans.
This will happen, because humans have become too expensive. They get sick, make mistakes, need sleep, get stressed, might quit, or even die. If a cheaper solution is out there, you better damn well believe Greed will demand it.
That problem, I suspect, is in most people's employment relationships, especially if they work for a company with more than three employees.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
That list is quite simplistic and avoids the fact that so much wasn't around then - air travel, universal plumbing, electricity, computers, TV. We disagree on the implications of this. I am confident humans will find something to do, we always have. I think the world will be a finer place when people don't need to drive trucks or wash dishes or clean toilets. All the things will be so cheap humans won't need to add material value. We can play video games to earn housing, in fact there are lots of people who currently do exactly that.
It wasn't long ago that every human alive toiled simply for a pitiful existence, often starving or dying from exposure or disease. I'm not arguing that the transition will be easy, it certainly wasn't easy in the past to adjust to e.g. the industrial revolution. I am, however quite confident that we will be better off.
I just spent the weekend talking with my 99 year old great-uncle. The world he grew up is fascinating, and hearing his perspective really gave me a lot of confidence and a new view of human progress.
Our greatest challenge is concentration of wealth. Our culture made it through the robber baron era, so clearly we can do it again. Perhaps we need to make the great depression great again, even a world war, but I know that we can do it.
Man, you really need that seminar!
Tech unemployment in 17Q1 in the US is 2.5%. That's a national rate, so it is skewed by SV, Austin, NYC, etc., but it's a pretty good market for employees and a pretty tough market for recruiting employers.
Even in the tech sector, that's an overall unemployment rate, but I'm wondering what the employment market is like for the tech worker in his 50s and 60s. It seems to be a young man's field.
But you are taking my "leave and find another job" humorously literally. I agree it would be more prudent to get another job first.
Oh! Well, yes, I totally agree, regardless of the field. :-)
If you don't like the guy, just Foe him and be done with it, and you won't see him again. Just stalking him makes you look like a creep.
The content of those jobs may have changed a lot, but it's notable that despite the progress in the past century the same general jobs are still around and still being done by humans. Sure, we've always found other things to do, but those other things are mostly the same things we were doing before. What happens when that's not viable?
I'm not sure if you watched the entire video, but you sound very much like the horses at 3:30.
Mass automation of everything can massively improve our lives, but if we try to stick to the mindset of "everybody must have a job, because that's how it worked in the past" then we're going to have problems.