Slashdot Mirror
Why Does Hollywood Remain Out of Step With the Body-Positive Movement? (nytimes.com)
According to a report from The New York Times, Hollywood continues to praise plus-sized actresses in knockout roles and then reduce them to bit parts about physical weight. Slashdot reader cdreimer shares an excerpt from the report: The first thing Danielle Macdonald did at the Cannes Film Festival in May was break into a cold sweat: The airline had lost her luggage. She was already nervous enough. Ms. Macdonald, 26, had been plucked from obscurity to play the lead role in "Patti Cake$," a drama about a rapper that was about to face the Cannes critics. Now she had to find something glamorous to wear -- pronto -- to the premiere. "As a bigger girl," Ms. Macdonald told me recently, "where was I meant to find something that would fit?" Her story then veered in an unexpected direction -- revealing her approach to Hollywood, which expects its lead actresses to be scarily skinny. "I gave myself a pep talk," she said. "This situation is what it is. Find a way to work around it." The red carpet crisis was resolved (another "Patti Cake$" star, Cathy Moriarty, lent her a black dress), but if the experiences of countless actresses before Ms. Macdonald are any indication, it will not be as easy to overcome the career obstacles that await her post-"Patti Cake$."
For women -- less so for men -- weight is perhaps the most stubborn of the entertainment industry's many biases. Have an average-sized body? Call us when you've starved yourself. In particular, Ms. Macdonald must avoid a cycle that plays out over and over in moviedom, one that some film agents coarsely call the fat flavor of the moment. A plus-size actress, almost always an unknown, lands the central role in a film and delivers a knockout performance. She is held up by producers and the entertainment news media as refreshing, long overdue evidence that Hollywood's insistence on microscopic waistlines is ending. And then she is slowly but surely pushed into bit parts, many of which are defined by weight.
For women -- less so for men -- weight is perhaps the most stubborn of the entertainment industry's many biases. Have an average-sized body? Call us when you've starved yourself. In particular, Ms. Macdonald must avoid a cycle that plays out over and over in moviedom, one that some film agents coarsely call the fat flavor of the moment. A plus-size actress, almost always an unknown, lands the central role in a film and delivers a knockout performance. She is held up by producers and the entertainment news media as refreshing, long overdue evidence that Hollywood's insistence on microscopic waistlines is ending. And then she is slowly but surely pushed into bit parts, many of which are defined by weight.
... ney.
Next question, please.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Hollywood is interested in making money. As long as people prefer to see a certain type of person movies will have more of those people because people will then buy more movie tickets. Most movie stars of both genders are people who are considered to be very good looking for the same reason. Unless you can change the culture, you need to threaten the bottom line. And the Fat Positive movement is still small enough that they are unlikely to be successful in that regard.
I'm a pro-social-justice person, and I defend a lot of /. stories that stretch the "News for nerds, stuff that matters" line. But no, this one really doesn't belong here. I get why it's here though: Touch on a social justice theme and the clicks and angry comments go on for hours.
What the fuck am I doing at the TMZ website?! I thought I was visiting Slashdot!
And this is what I wore flying on it. Is that so bad? Seriously, has anyone on here who has flown more than 10 flights ever not had their luggage lost?
Fuck this horseshit. I can't even go to a tech site without seeing this crap.
Customers spend more money on what they're attracted to. Stop trying to do "conversion therapy" on them like a 20th century Puritan who can't stand the thought of a gay man.
I don't know what to think unless someone in corporate tells me. Please tell me what to think next.
2) Because movies are fantasy and nobody fantasizes about being an unattractive slob.
Why is nobody advocating for more smelly, greasey, fat men in movies? Because you can't frame it as a poor innocent child-women argument.
There is literally nothing positive about being fat. You feel worse, your cloths don't fit well, you smell bad, oh and it will FREAKING KILL YOU.
I'm sorry, if that's so much of a hard reality then you really need to readdress your priority that you're personality is so fragile that you have to try to make everyone else feel as bad as you just to get by. But you're kill yourself, and encourage people to NOT try and address extreme weight issues is doing way more damage to other people that your own hurt feelings. Hey, I used to weight 370 pounds. Worked my literally ass off to get down to about 290. It's hard, it sucks, but it's what you have to do if you intend to make it past about 40.
Critical acclaim for a single role doesn't mean an actor can carry another film or has any range (i.e. Rebel Wilson). Often the critics are too quick to praise the actor because they physically break the mold. It then becomes apparent they really can't carry a major film and fall by the way side. Mediocre talent that isn't very pleasant to look at will get replaced by mediocre talent that is easy on the eyes.
Some do have talent and continue to have successful careers, while others with talent find they -like many many many other actors- simply fail to maintain career momentum. Even highly talented conventionally good looking actors struggle to land roles and keep their career on track. The business is a rough one.
Who comes here to read these kinds of articles?
This is not what this site is about. I don't come here to read articles about rappers or actress choice.
The same reason they make sequels to rubbish movies: It makes money!
Why is it only body-positive? Where are the people with weird eyebrows, cross-eyed, etc.
Having spent 25 years working on movie and TV sets, I would argue that it's what people want to see. They want to see good looking (often young), fit, thin people. Generally anyway. And it's certainly more the case for actresses. Even women want to see that I think. These viewers -customers- vote with their dollars. It's subtle. Subliminal. But actors who are overweight, much like those in regular life, can face the same societal prejudicial issues: you're lazy, stupid, and ineffective. A producer doesn't want that unless it serves the character in the story. Many that do have successful careers, do so in comedy. There are so many examples of that, I'm sure you can think of dozens on your own. The whole thing is even more prominent in advertising. It's slowly starting to change. Slowly. I believe for human psychology it's a simple subconscious thing....fat = not healthy. A producer doesn't want an action hero who is supposed to kick ass but they can't run a block's distance. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's good. I'm saying that it's want the people want instinctively. And Hollywood will oblige.
... because the answer is simple:
"We get what we ask for."
That explains CNN, Fox, Hollywood and TV and radio and the movies and shit.
"We have found the enemy and he is us."
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
I looked at 5 seconds of the trailer for that movie. I hope that lady is not average sized, or else this country is worse than I thought.
Look, I'm all for being comfortable in your own skin. As a fellow fatass, I can support that position.
That, however, is not what's going on here.
I am not supportive of forcing that comfort on to others in the name of "acceptance". Healthy is sexy, and carrying around more fat that necessary isn't healthy. I'm not about to whine and cry about how women don't find me attractive because of my weight; I understand my beer gut isn't bringing all the girls to the yard, and that's OK. That's part of accepting my body as it is; not trying to force others to change their perspectives.
And can we lay off the whole "men aren't as impacted by body image issues as women are" please? Look at most of the leading men in hollywood; well muscled. It's a common misconception that men don't suffer from this issue, same as women.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
and nobody wants to look at regular people when fantasy is on parade. Folks either have to be really attractive (Brad Pitt/Megan Fox) or really not (Danny Davito/John Goodman). I don't need to see my coworkers in a bloody film.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Super Pochaco! Yeah, I'm a BBW lover! This anime is ridiculous!
Maybe NSFW
Mostly random stuff.
Where are the calls for fat balding men in romance movies or action flicks?
And nobody wants to fucking see them in films they paid to see, and had to watch ads and trailers as well, unless it's a character that's necessarily a fatty.
Come on Bill, this article is not worth your comment.
Actually, for reasons I prefer not to disclose, I am very interested in how short near-sighted bald guys with beer bellies can become sex symbols.
And I say this as a fat man. While I don't believe in fat "shaming", I also don't think it should be considered a positive. The only positive I can think of being fat is that I can more easily float in water. All that means is if I'm on a plane and it crashes in the ocean, I can last 10% longer than a thin person before dying of exposure.
Basically, we should encourage people to be in a healthy weight range, and not beat themselves up if they're not perfect.
The real reason though is our brains are wired to be attracted to healthy people. In our evolved brains, healthy people will give us healthy offspring. Hollywood might consider women like Scarlett Johansen or Jennifer Lawrence to be fat, but most guys see them as fat in all the right places. ;-)
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
She aint no average, otherwise she wouldnt have problem finding any wear... she is FAT, OBESE, MORBIDLY OVERWEIGHT and such role models should not be promoted by any means...
want to know
The fat acceptance advisor to congress died at like 33 from heart disease. So that's one reason.
Uh, "Average-Sized" is very different in a lot of places in the world. At one extreme is a place like where I live, in Vietnam. Most woman, while not rail thin, are not very fat. On the other hand, a place like the American Samoas, I understand people there are very overweight. Even in the U.S. whereas people in the big cities pay a bit more attention to their waistlines (and in some places like Colorado really go out of their way to stay in shape), a quick trip to the mid-west will make you realize that humans come in some pretty big sizes.
Hollywood, being a den of actors/actresses/people working in coffee shops waiting to be discovered, has an unusually high proportion of young attractive people. So if the casting director walks down the street maybe they have a skewed sense of "Average-Sized". (Or maybe they're just trying to sell tickets)
about Danielle Macdonald.
Waiting for Bruce Willis's career to end.
Considering that people are getting fatter, the average is going up with it. Even then, you'd need to look at weight distribution to get an idea how fat a group is (one 500 lb person and four 100 lb people would average out to 180, but the average doesn't reflect the group). After all, obesity doesn't factor in average weight.
A better term would be an "appropriate weight".
Word verification: parents (who are responsible for this mess)
Someone's asleep at the wheel.
No, James Damore awoke the sleeping liberal dragon with his Google Diversity Memo. That was 11 days ago, and every day since has been a day of liberal rage--not just on Slashdot, but in all news media.
Personally, I think they're just getting warmed-up. The real show will start in 2 weeks, when classes begin at the universities...
It's this sort of inane bs that makes me wish for a war; anything that might serve to shed some of the mountain of navel gazing crap we keep adding to the pile. I am convinced that excessive peace is not healthy.
Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
I don't see how this has anything to do with /.
are you sure you posted the story to the right site, Beau? Did you get it mixed-up with your second job at Gizmodo? because this totally feels like a Gizmodo story.
Seriously /.
Stop this crap.
I'm not signing anything
I dunno. How about this insight? Maybe our collective judgement dislikes fat people because, I dunno, maybe because anyone who disregards their own health and eats themselves in obesity looks really unhealthy, and mating with that decided unhealthy human is not in the best interest of the species? Evolution happening right before your eyes.
In other news, this is not news for Nerds and it definitely doesn't matter.
Exactly this. "Body Positive" is euphemism, it is code for "fat is OK". Fat is not OK. Normalizing fatness leads to more fatness. I read a study that determined that the best predictor of obesity was not genetics, it was your social circle. If you hang out with and associate with fat people, you are more likely to be fat. Obesity is a self perpetuating epidemic that has no upside.
I mean, I get it that we eat too many twinkies sometimes, but we also don't work for Hollywood. Except on render farms. Jezz! What's wrong with you guys? You are not Huffington Post, you are fucking slashdot! How about a discussion on the best programming languages to naturally incorporate machine learning along with traditional computation constructs?
>Have an average-sized body? Call us when you've starved yourself. Eating a TDEE of a 20 bmi person is not starving, its called being a responsible adult. It's also more attractive as selection pressure is biased on successfully carrying a life sucking parasite, or baby to term, requiring a healthy form.
Just because the average is now overweight or obese does not absolve your continued gluttony.
It's Partly because of Actors whom are often smaller sized ... the ideal TV/Movie actor and actress have a distinctive body type that is not that common in the general populace. To be on screen you need a large head in relation to the torso. "Big" people have difficultly obtaining that body type ... their heads are more in proportion to their body size.
On the screen, that won't do. If you've ever had much contact with on-screen personalities you may have been surprised at how small they are in real life. The Dustin Hoffman type.
The women, who have to be love interests to these leading men and can't be lording over them size-wise, so big headed small bodied women get the roles. It's not just about being skinny, it's about being skinny in proportion to your head.
They don't call them "talking heads" for nothing.
The term "social justice" is wrong. Justice is personal..
Justice has a meaning, and is not personal. If that were true society would simply be anarchy and survival of the fittest. The definition is conceptual, and comes from Socrates. Like Virtue, Good, Moral, Evil, etc...
Perhaps consider why you have never learned such basic social concepts?
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
I don't see how you can claim Hurley was the comic relief - he was actually the "regular" person if you look at all the oddness happening around the other people (even despite his curse). He was mostly the sensible one... and he ended up pretty well at the end. I would say he's one of the better characters in the show.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
uh 'news for nerds...' ... oh wait ... :{
Women will overlook a lot of physical shortcomings if you're a decent guy.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Women will overlook a lot of physical shortcomings if you're a decent guy.
Quite a few happily look up to a midget standing on his wallet
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
Only appear in films shot in total darkness.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Short, funny little Mickey Rooney scored some of the hottest babage in the world, and it wasn't because of his wallet, since the women he banged were all much more successful than him. Elizabeth Taylor, Lana Turner, even Ava fucking Gardner, who on a scale of 1 to 10 was like an 18.
Here is a photo of Ava Gardner while she was married to Mickey Rooney:
https://www.oldtimeradiodownlo...
and Lana Turner:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ssV...
And this is what Elizabeth Taylor looked like when Mickey Rooney was tapping that ass:
https://vickielester.files.wor...
Mickey Rooney was 5' 2" tall. For all the AAA poontang he had, his dick should be enshrined in the Smithsonian.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Beauty is just a light switch away, in total darkness I look just like Brad Pitt.
But darkness doesn't fix stank puss.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
It's not just liberal rage; this whole country is turning into a steaming pot of rage, threatening to boil over. It's not a good sign that there's so much clear division in this society now.
Unfortunately, I really can't think of any really good historical parallels. 1930s Germany has some similarities, but unlike them our economy is pretty good (except for some people in it) and we didn't lose some big war we're paying reparations for and we don't have hyperinflation. The fall of Rome has some similarities, but I've never read about them having huge divisions in their society between certain groups of citizens becoming violently opposed to each other. The US before the Civil War has some similarities, but there the division was mainly between different regions (encompassing entire states), whereas here it's not so much, it's more urban vs. rural.
It is obvious that Hollywood does. What real man would lust after a shapeless, bossomless, and hairless person than child molestors? Hell, it isn't even uncommon to see requests for shaved pussies on almost every meet up site around. The real question here is why men, instead of seeking the company of natural women, have become so attracted to prepuscence.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
It's noisy fringe vs noisy fringe. I'd be fine with the KKK and the Reds mutually wiping each other out. Hell, I'd throw the firecracker between the armed lines myself.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
In the past it would have been a floppy disk that failed before a big convention.
The tech story would have been about how the complex code was recreated in the hotel room the night before and was then ready the next day.
Now we get lost luggage stories.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Nice counterexample.
Now explain Anna Nicole Smith & J Howard Marshall
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
"As a bigger girl," Ms. Macdonald told me recently, "where was I meant to find something that would fit?" My god, the horror she must have endured. I propose that we enact a law that 7-11 and any fast-food restaurant stock emergency clothing in size 20 and above.
Earth is a single point of failure.
I don't think those are real people.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Look here, I'm all for equality and better representation, but listen, particularly for Hollywood, this isn't a problem of being out of step with some movement, this is a problem of consumption and culture.
I can understand when people talk about whitewashing, as testimonials given by minority actor and actresses communities really do indicate that directors, studios and people involved in the recruiting process really do not even consider hiring them for main roles... the pervasiveness of the whole thing goes so far as to give preference to white actors and actresses even to non-white roles because studios don't even consider it's possible for actors and actresses in minorities to become big stars. This is a point where they are particularly out of pace, because there are several actors and actresses in minorities that are as beloved if not even more than white actors and actresses.
But if we're talking about body types, then you are not going against a specific industry bias, you are going against deep rooted cultural ideals. This dates back as far as greek mythology and history of other cultures, and it's far from being a Hollywood, or even a western thing. Beauty standards goes into an entire other category that cannot be changed as if it was some sort of injustice.
Furthermore, it's not exclusive to female actresses, though yes, there are differences of expectations between sexes.
You can just see how fashion industry reacted so far. Magazines with token issues, a few brands and producers hiring a few models for token events, and a bunch of reaction going towards "see, we too love regular/ugly people". But in the end, those that fits the beauty standards are the ones that sells. The industry has enough money to sustain a few token diverse ideals of beauty as it should, but much like Hollywood is sustained by mainstream movies, it cannot survive treating everyone equally.
If we're talking about the mainstream, then it's obvious - it's thin and fit sexy women and roided up hunks, which btw, usually have to have extremely defined muscles which also indicate an unhealthy body fat percentage which also means they haven't been eating much.
Then again, we have progressed much in recent years. Mainstream is mostly an option these days, people have the alternative to watch movies that don't necessarily have actors and actresses looking like fashion models or beauty ideals.
Thing is, if movies were supposed to put stuff up front that is realistic, something you can see on your daily life, or that reflects people you see everyday... why bother? If you tie fiction to reality, then what purpose does fiction have? And quite frankly, I've been seeing too many people hitching a ride on stuff like body positive movement to take a dump on their own health, thinking that just because someone said "it's ok to be fat" that they should conform to their horribly unhealthy lifestyles.
And I understand that there are plenty of people who lead very healthy lifestyles but don't have a supermodel body, because that's mostly genetics.
Also understand that girls from early ages suffer pressure for achieving an unrealistic beauty standard, as they and others probably also do regarding money, social status, romantic lifestyles, personality traits, and all sorts of other things.
But if people think they will be able to convince Hollywood studios, particularly those that produce mainstream movies, to hire and produce content acording to some creed of the body positive movement when it goes directly against what actual sales data tells them.... you are up for an extreme uphill battle for sure.
And it's also not a matter of changing society, culture and whatnot to make your kids feel less pressured or something. It's a matter of knowing how to teach kids to deal with those pressures.
It's really unhealthy to think that everything can be solved by changing society in general.
I shudder at the thought of letting society be changed to attend the demands on some 3rd wave feminists that are alm
This is NOT "news for nerds," and it sure as fuck isn't "stuff that matters".
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
No they won't.
Is that a dance?
Okay, here is the next question: Why is it always about women? Why does Hollywood only use buff guys in leading roles? Why are the male sex symbols never short near-sighted bald guys with beer bellies?
Oscar winner Karl Malden is on line 1.
(Which is kind of creepy, given he died eight years ago).
#DeleteChrome
He's 7'3".
#DeleteChrome
You misspelled rich.
I'm just looking to find a nice alt-center group that wants to meet on weekends and discuss home brewing and Doctor Who. Maybe we could gather with TIKI lamps and have a bar-b-que with lawn chairs and what-not.
-- I have a private email server in my basement.
All it takes is money.
Women will overlook a lot of physical shortcomings if you're a decent guy.
Sure, but what if I'm not?
This issue is far more complicated than you make it out to be. I'm not sure why this is on Slashdot, but because it is, let's discuss it.
Obesity is unhealthy, make no mistake about it. We shouldn't pretend that it's healthy or that it's something to be celebrated. It's definitely important to promote a healthy lifestyle, which includes dietary changes and more exercise, both of which are helpful to reduce weight.
However, things like fat shaming are unacceptable. There's a huge difference between positive encouragement to make healthy decisions and insulting people who haven't made healthy decisions. Fat shaming is actually pretty common, but it's also counterproductive. I've heard plenty of people try to justify fat shaming others by saying it's because they care and just want to provide motivation. Usually it either has no effect at all or it actually reduces the motivation to make healthy decisions.
This has also led to "The Biggest Loser," which promotes the idea of losing weight at an unhealthy pace and presenting a completely unrealistic idea of how weight loss works. The trainers usually make the contestants work out for several hours per day, and they're usually shown on TV as working out at a very rapid pace. However, what's shown on TV is only done for brief stints and they don't show that most of the workouts are done at a slower and more sustainable pace. In many cases, the caloric intakes are ridiculously low and the contestants don't drink enough water because proper hydration might cause them to be too heavy at the next weigh-in. There are also allegations that the contestants are drugged to cause even more weight loss. The contestants say that it's a terrible experience, that most gain all the weight back, and that they suffer permanent health problems from it. What's presented on TV as healthy is actually extremely unhealthy and dangerous.
However, closer to the context of the story, the entertainment and modeling industries have a warped idea of body image. In many cases, what they present favorably is actually unhealthy in that the people (especially women) are too skinny. Being underweight isn't healthy. In some industries, people who are of a healthy weight and actually are in shape get labeled as plus sized. This is just as harmful as pretending that it's healthy to be overweight. Trying to look like those models, many of whom are underweight, is a great way to develop an eating disorder along with other health problems.
It is good to encourage people to reach a healthy weight through a healthy diet and exercise. The problem here is that many times what's presented as healthy really is quite unhealthy and dangerous.
Neomarxists are even on slashdot? Maybe it is time to stop to visit this page.
That's not what this site is about and the moderation of the posts and comments about such topics, continues to show, we don't care about that shit. If anything you're making us backlash against it by bringing idiot politics into our simple, oldschool tech forum.
We don't need fancy code of conducts or any of that shit here. News for nerds, stuff that matters, not bullshit.
Thank you.
Basically the same reason there is porn on the internet: sex sells, sexy young women sell, and studios want to sell movies.
John_Chalisque
Women will overlook a lot of physical shortcomings if you're rich.
FTFY
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Welllll ...
define "physical shortcomings"
As far as I can tell, guys compete with each other a little bit, very little bit. The times I see a guy who I would say he is more attractive than my self is very rare.
OTOH I have the impression girls compete with each other all the time, or try to "improve each others style" all the time if they are "friends".
A normal body has not much short comings. I think someone who has no overweight is attractive enough, no need for fancy muscles. On the other hand if you find muscles super attractive, go for it.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
It's noisy fringe vs noisy fringe.
I disagree. The SJWs are not merely a "noisy fringe". They have taken control of the news media, the tech industry, and the universities. Now they're making a play to take control of society. In contrast, the white nationalists are a noisy fringe--they don't really have any political power. They can't even find a host for their website, The Daily Stormer, for example.
(Although the SJWs portray Trump as a white nationalist, this is disingenuous. Instead, my feeling is that he's just a selfish, egotistical businessman. The SJWs are portraying Trump as a white nationalist so that they have an excuse to seize power.)
your cloths don't fit well,
Then buy properly fitting clothes.
you smell bad
That has much more to do with presonal hygeine than weight. I've enconutered plenty of smelly skinny people.
and it will FREAKING KILL YOU.
Depends how fat, really. It's correlated with health issues certianly, though some people seem remarkably immune from them.
Hey, I used to weight 370 pounds. Worked my literally ass off to get down to about 290. It's hard, it sucks, but it's what you have to do if you intend to make it past about 40
Good for you (I genuiely mean that, no snide or irony or anythig)! What you're referring to is somewhat on the upper end, though, I think.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
It's one thing to complain that Hollywood and fashion use too many underweight models but let's not swing the other way and endorse obesity. The US and Western countries already have far too many obese people and it should not be normalised. It should be seen as a problem to be addressed and not accepted.
For something that doesn't matter, there sure are a lot of comments -- especially highly rated comments representing the same side of the debate.
as a body positive movement.
I am very interested in how short near-sighted bald guys with beer bellies can become sex symbols.
Like Ron Jeremy?
I would like to sign up to your party plan circulars.
More discussions over wine, less whining discussions.
Alas I fear the travel would be a bit of a deal breaker :-(
...to see fat people. I'm a fat person, I get the problem. I still think the psychological issue lies with the person experiencing it. But I want to see stupid skinny, fit actresses and skinny muscle-bound actors. I can see fat people anywhere.
The same is true for beauty, Hollywood focuses on actors who are many steps beyond average in appearance (granted, with makeup, cosmetic surgery and trickery in evidence). That's what we want to see. Ugly people are everywhere, for entertainment we want a nearly magical level of beauty.
I don't really want to see it change, and I suspect I will pay less money if it changed. The only thing I would like to see is that what fat people are in the show aren't always the pathetic, helpless comic-relief with a bucket of fried chicken that they often appear as. In addition to being wrong, it also sets a dangerous viewpoint on exactly how much one has to eat to get fat (simply more than you can burn) or exactly what exercise is important for (cardiac health...you won't lose weight just exercising in most cases)... it's just propagating a stupid stereotype that has relatively little basis in reality. It's the blackface of the modern era.
The body positive movement is promoting unhealthy weight as being okay. From Wikipedia, because they describe it really well:
"The Body Positive Movement is a movement that encourages people to adopt more forgiving and affirming attitudes towards their bodies, with the goal of improving overall health and well-being. Whether people are nurturing their bodies and maintaining their weight, or finding a place in life where they are comfortable through working out, or changing their lifestyles to find a better attitude, the body positive movement focuses on building self-esteem through improving one's self-image."
In other words it is about living healthily, just through feeling good about yourself instead of being motivated by feeling insecure and unhappy. Considering how poorly the latter has worked over the decades, trying something different seems like a good idea.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
All the flight attendants, service staff and hotel workers were attractive. Everyone on TV was mostly attractive. You had to win the genetic lottery to get any of these public facing jobs. THey had it right and despite the country being a cesspool of toxic, polluted air, the trip was pleasant because everyone working was pleasant to see. There were of course exceptions, like taxi drivers and government workers. The "positive body" movement is just a way to justify people being unnaturally fat and normalize this look. It's unappealing to see and movies that feature the likes of Rosanne Bar and Rose O'Donnel tend to flop because they want to see the Hero get the sexy Ukrainian girl, not the one shoving donuts and chicken legs in her gaping maw.
Thanks for wasting my limited morning news time.
The fallacy of a division is when you mistakenly infer that the parts of something have to have the properties of the whole thing (e.g., the brain is smart, therefore neurons must have intelligence). This fallacy is rife in any kind of public discourse about political things where it (over) simplifies our reasoning about complex topics, e.g., we talk about Trump voters or women engineers as if they were all pressed out of the same mold.
The behavior of a system does not always emerge in a straightforward way from the attitudes of the participants in the system.
Just because some people in Hollywood would like to see more inclusive casting doesn't mean that will happen; that wouldn't even happen if most people felt that way. Of course there's always some hypocrisy present; people aren't very consistent so you can always catch them out if you try hard enough. But I think the best explanation here also explains many other things about Hollywood: Hollywood isn't just a cultural institution; it's an industry.
The value of an investment is dependent up on its expected return relative to risk. This means that as an industry Hollywood is constantly struggling with two contradictory objectives: to score a breakout hit on one hand, and to have their money completely safe on the other.
So Hollywood's standard response is to hire incredibly talented, original people, and then reward them for doing the exactly same stuff everyone else has been doing. Even if everyone in Hollywood wanted to see more big women cast in lead roles because of their acting ability, it wouldn't happen immediately because they'd all be waiting for someone else to go first.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Good for you (I genuiely mean that, no snide or irony or anythig)! What you're referring to is somewhat on the upper end, though, I think.
My numbers are similar, but I'm two meters tall, so I'm on the upper end in multiple ways :)
Still, I suspect there's a fat load of Americans who are Well over 100 pounds overweight. I mean, you can't hardly open your eyes in public without seeing nine or ten of 'em.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Being fat has nothing to do with smell.
If one smells bad he has bad hygiene, bad nutrition, bad digestion or all of that.
Hey, I used to weight 370 pounds. Worked my literally ass off to get down to about 290. It's hard, it sucks, but it's what you have to do if you intend to make it past about 40.
Consult a doctor. Check your gut microbes. Working your ass off is not the way to lose weight. Better food is!
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Then you have to take matters into your own hands.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Call me crazy, but perhaps people don't want to pay to watch fat people? Hollywood knows its audience wants escapism more than any other form of entertainment. If we wanted to watch a bunch of fat people, we wouldn't need Hollywood. We have an abundance of those in our everyday lives.
We are Hollywood customers in part because non-fat people are the exception to the norm. Look at a show like Jessica Jones. If the lead actress (and the supporting actresses) weren't body-hot, I wouldn't have even given the show a chance (and neither would have enough people to keep the show in production). If the Jessica Jones character were played by a fat woman, the whole premise of the show would have been too unbelievable to entertain.
And the notion that men are less affected by body image than women is laughable at best. By and large, physically attractive women go for physically attractive men, with only an occasional diversion from the standard; meaning that men have to either be genetically lucky, or spend a lot of time and effort in maintaining an attractive physique -- just like women. Imagine that.
The Rock is overweight, his BMI is 34ish. This article refers to weight but what it's actually talking about is fat. "over-fat" ought to be the term used instead of "over-weight".
sag
I was saving my last Cadbury Creme Egg from Easter for a special moment.
/. article.
This seemed like the perfect time to eat it, as I read through the comments on this non
A girl that has too much food available, takes a plane for an event celebrating her artistic performance. But ohh no, she now has to go shopping because her luggage will be a day late.
That is the definition of first world problem.
Meanwhile children starve in Africa and nobody bats an eye.
Moreover, why is this crap in Slashdot ?
So will men. But that can only compensate for so much. If you're a morbidly obese person, chances are you've passed that line a long time ago.
Your self-esteem should be intrinsic for you to be a balanced person. Demanding that society accept you and telling yourself how great you are is a defensive behavior associated with low self-esteem. Try actually focusing on solving problems in a tangible and lasting way instead of covering them up.
Obesity causes depression, low self-esteem, poor memory and focus. The obesity epidemic should not be acceptable, and you're living in a fantasy world if you think life is just as great for a fat person, as it is for a healthy one. We must fight the food industry, not the cosmetic industry or the Hollywood studios, for the right to a healthy diet where unnecessary amounts of sugar and fat are added on to everything, and portions large enough for 4 people are sold as individual portions.
...doesn't actually exist. It exists only as a concept for a movement that brain dead progressives can use to signal their virtue.
It's noisy fringe vs noisy fringe.
I disagree.
I've got some hard news for you, Mr. AC. You are in the noisy fringe.
I enjoy seeing a certain female aesthetic in my entertainment. My wife enjoys seeing a certain male aesthetic in her entertainment. Neither of us are anywhere near a societal ideal.
It's entertainment, and we can separate fantasy of seeing an attractive person in a film from the reality of our monogomous and happy relationship.
I think that assume that other people can't do the same is infantilizing.
I know certain parts were artificial, but to say they aren't people seems a bit harsh.
i'm just here to see if everyone is as confused as i am
That doesn't make any sense. Someone disagreeing makes them part of the radical fringe they are complaining about. Some new radical left projection tactic. It's the new McCarthyism.
Movies are supposed to be fantasy. If I want to see fat chicks I don't have to go to a movie, I can get plenty of that "eye candy" for free.
TV and film used to have characters that smoked tobacco in every episode or scene.Now they don't, because it is well known that smoking is bad for you. But the "body positive" movement is the flip side- much like big tobacco and nicotine addicts than ran around denying that their product and habit is not good for you. Being overweight is not good for your health. Just like tobacco, there is no parsing or denying this. Facts are facts. Remember when you used to walk down the street and see a lot of smokers? Now you don't see nearly that many. But you do see a lot of fat people. So what's the difference? None. Except overweight people want to see themselves on TV and in film, to make their condition acceptable. That is the bottom line for the Body Positive movement.
Republican leadership = Idiocracy
I need to lose a few pounds, I'm working on it and it is not easy. But I know that is a better choice than trying to make society accept my poor choices that led to the weight as attractive.
Here in America we have a food industry dedicated to making you obese. So many of us in the U.S. are far heavier than we should be. Yes there are corner cases where the excess weight has some other root cause. But those are outliers. The fact is a lot of folks here in Umerika eat poorly and too much.
So along comes this sad attempt to normalize that as a healthy life style choice. Its no longer fat, its "body positive"! Seriously I am happy Hollywood has not yet tried to normalize poor choices. In fact thinking about it I am surprised given the SJW nature of the entertainment industry.
That the body positive movement is the one out of step with the rest of the world?
"Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
See, it was worth waiting for. My grandmother used to say, "For every funny foot, there's a funny shoe."
I'm reminded of a girl from my grammar school. She was fugly. Skinny, flat-chested, goofy glasses, braces. None of the boys would talk to her. I went to a reunion some years back and she was grown up fine as cherry wine. I mean, she put the others to shame. Always be nice to the funny-looking ones. You never know.
I see pictures of my wife from high school and it's comical. She was 3" taller than the tallest boy, bony, stupid 70s hair and weird glasses. Total math nerd. When I met her on the Halsted Street bus some decades ago, she stopped my heart. I had to put on my A game to get her to let me take her for coffee before she got off the bus downtown. Had to dig deep and use every bit of my greasy dago charm. She's now a math professor, and there are silver threads among the gold, but she still looks mighty good to me. Thank goodness our daughter got her looks and brains (but my charm).
You are welcome on my lawn.
It's hypocritical. The very same people that want to feel attractive even though they made choices that people find unattractive, don't want to watch movies with a bunch of unattractive people in it who are overweight.
It's just a special interest group, a loud minority that wanted to be considered attractive even though they're going to eat those extra doughnuts tonight.
Hollywood movies I've watched don't show people who are unhealthy skinny "super models" who puke everyday. I see people who are fit, in shape, and healthy. These are things that should be shown as attractive and desirable. Sorry if your fragile self esteem can't put the burger down and wants to feel good about it.
Get fit, get healthy, it sucks, I know personally, trust me, but stop blaming everyone else for not liking your body and the choices you've made.
Uplink Hosting - Web/email at an affordable price with high performance - https://uplinkhosting.ca/link.php?id=3
BMI is the measure of BODY fat! A 28 BMI means that you are more than 25% body fat regardless of how much muscle you have. These calculations are certainly estimates for which you can use water displacement and other methods for more precise numbers but the estimate is about the percentage of mass you have which is FAT.
Healthy numbers are different for men and women, but since we have entered the SJW territory of asking "gender" we now have a number for both sexes even on Government sites which is horrifying. A healthy woman should have more body fat than a healthy man and a different BMI. Why? BIOLOGY! Breast tissue is needed for feeding infants and women are the only sex that can perform that vital function. (biological males who grow breasts through medical issues or hormone therapy can not feed infants.) Testosterone impacts muscle density and mass.
If you don't know something either ask or figure it out before spewing dangerous statements.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
...Hollywood is about money, and money is about reality, not advancing Social Justice.
Being fat (and I am) is objectively BAD.
It's bad for your health, it's bad for your life. And mostly, it's due to choices made.
More importantly (from Hollywood's point of view) is that, fetishists aside, nobody finds fat people sexy. Hollywood is about putting beautiful (to the point of being frankly almost inhuman) idealized people on the screen. Fat people are not that, not matter how many times you INSIST it.
"She may be 300 lbs but she's beautiful"
You may even be right, she might be objectively beautiful, but:
- it's DESPITE her weight, not because of it, and
- I pretty nearly guarantee that she would be MORE beautiful if she wasn't fat. Not concentration-camp skinny, but not fat.
-Styopa
Socrates presented the forms in the only way possible. Justice must be universally applied to be Justice, and Justice can not cause injustice. We can symbolize the form of Justice with the empty scale, as we still do today. Socrates was killed because he pissed off people in power, not because he asked tricky questions. The same thing that got numerous people killed through all of history. E.G. Cicero.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
As someone who at one point in my life used to be around 320 pounds, had ruined my knees due to chronic depression-driven inactivity, and just didn't care whether I lived or died, who then turned it all around, lost some weight, got my knees fixed, lost more weight, started training for road bike racing, and now has a bodyfat percentage that's around 10% all the time, and can ride 100 miles in less than 6 hours on a lark? I'm offended by this 'body positive', 'Health At Every Size (HAES)' nonsense -- and that's what it is, is nonsense -- and I'm completely and totally unapologetic about it, so deal with it. FAT is FAT. You're just deluding yourself if you say you're 'healthy' at 30/40/50 percent bodyfat. Get real, get the fork out of your mouth, get into a reasonable regular exercise regimen, and get healthy -- and don't sit there and tell me "..but Rick, I've tried EVERYTHING! Nothing works! Calories in/calories out doesn't work! It's my genetics!" or any of the other excuses I typically hear. I was literally crippled, needed knee surgery, knew NOTHING about fitness and proper diet, and now I race bikes and can leg press four times my bodyweight; if I can figure it out and make it work, so can everyone else, you just have to want it enough to commit to it.
Oh, and one more thing, since I'm going to get modded as 'Flamebait' anyway for DARING to speak my mind:
You can't MAKE me be attracted to you, fat women, no matter WHAT you say. Slender, proportional, and HEALTHY is attractive, not rolls of fat and a complete lack of physical fitness. Stop the self-hate-driven-delusion and DO something about it.
Oh, and guys? You being a fatass isn't attractive to WOMEN, either -- so you can stop deluding yourselves, too. YOU get the fork out of YOUR mouth, too, get your fat ass to the gym and FIX YOUR SHIT, nobody wants to see it anymore.
How many Freudians does it take to change a light bulb?
Only one, but the light bulb really has to want to change.
PHASE ONE: PRESENTING OBJECTS FOR RIDICULE SELLS. Negroes, Arabs, Jews, fat people, women [the pathetic helpless ones that need to be saved every time], whomever. Anything that visually identifies is fair game. You can even re-use the plots. Despite presence of a counterculture or social change in progress Hollywood will always hang on to the most directly disparaging treatment for as long as possible, because Box Office. In addition to those who knee-slap and guffaw, some people will actually put down money to be offended. A phenomenon science will never explain.
PHASE TWO: REFLECTION WITH OVER-COMPENSATION SELLS, for awhile. It begins poignantly and earnestly, such as Shelley Winters' role as savior in The Poseidon Adventure. But simple blindness is never enough. Script writers develop stereotypes of people who RIDICULE and those 'anti-stereotypes' are used to spice up scripts, and persist on the screen even as change is occurring in the real world and former KKK grand dragons are the butt of jokes by their own grandchildren. Larger than life cartooney bigots sell. Because again, Box Office. People like to be reminded of moral progress in the movies. Unfortunately history is not well served by these portrayals and a tiny dumb minority takes this propaganda to heart, which extends these tired memes for generations more.
PHASE THREE: BLIND EQUALITY DOESN'T SELL. I'd like to say this represents a theoretical time when simple hate-memes have disappeared, but sadly they seem to be replaced with new ones. In a time when people are staging impossible boss fights that would reduce their bones to bonemeal with computer animation tricks that could create fighting anyone or anything (such as Kung Fu Panda or Kung Fu Lightbulb)... we're still locked in phases ONE and TWO. Only heroes and anti-heroes of certain gender, race and stature need apply. The common people, the ones who live out their lives simply not pre-judging other people, the real heroes, are too boring to ever hit the silver screen.
And we typically think of Ancient Greeks as a people obsessed with legend. Oh, the irony!
<blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
Go tell it to Shaq (7'1", playing weight 325 lbs). But give me some warning - I want to be a safe distance away, and I want to have some popcorn handy.
#DeleteChrome
Do you use "decent guy" as code for "have a lot of money"? Because otherwise that does not actually seem to be the case.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Seriously way is this a thing? ones feelings are not going to change the facts Overweight people do have more heath issues. https://www.cdc.gov/healthywei... Reality does not care if your positive about your body the reality is you will die early if you are overweight. Want to be positive about your body? Great now put Down the Mc Food and go to the Gym.
It really doesn't matter if they're making excuses, the fact is that positive reinforcement works better than negative reinforcement, especially for weight loss which is already often a response to depression from someone who has learned that food is the most likely source of good feelings in their life.
Disclaimer: GP's statement used general terms, and my response is in general terms. Medical conditions causing obesity are potentially helped by medication, and neither positive or negative reinforcement are relevant.
Both types of reinforcement work, and Operant Conditioning is well documented as being effective for behavioral modification. There is certainly a massive amount of variables to consider, but your statement is absolutely false. It also relies on the false premise that obesity is primarily caused by depression. Which is not only a false premise, but ignores the fact that obesity is a cause _OF_ depression.
Perhaps you can provide us with your credentials as a practicing psychologist/psychologist and in depth studies which discount operant conditioning for obesity.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
I head the same stuff and never watched Lost while it was on, I also heard the same thing about the ending so I continued not to watch it... Then being bored one day, I decided to try watching the first episode and it drew me in.
Here's the thing to do. Watch the first two seasons, they are pretty good and give you a flavor of the oddness going on.
When the black kid vanishes, skip to the last two episodes and watch those. Some of it will make little sense but you'll get a feeling of completeness without a desire to watch any more. Read a Wikipedia summary after that if you wonder about any missing characters.
But honestly, Hurley is not really "comic relief" like I said, he's the rational guy and he's not really made fun of. He's also portrayed as fairly intelligent I would say. He was one of my favorite charters on that show.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Sure, that is the definition of BMI, immediately followed by a "calculator" taking only the height and weight into account (no fat vs muscle). So his comment is perfectly valid, computing the BMI with this calculator leads to errors and considering overweight people that are not.
Utter crap! The calculator leads more people to believe that they are not overweight! The US Military has had Height/Weight standards similar to BMI for many decades. The amount of false positives are extremely small, generally within Special Ops. I know, because I was one and had to get regular water displacement tests (as did most of my unit). Further, I worked with people on Special Fitness programs to help them lose weight.
I doubt that large studies do any differently, since they're likely just doing statistics on weight and height as well.
Another flat out lie, easily disproved if you had bothered to look at.. well.. anything at all instead of bullshitting. The Fat to Muscle ratio is based on averages measured with either "Pinch" (caliper) testing or water displacement testing.
Why not do some homework instead of simply lying to either spread bullshit or feel smart. You are not, and the world is not better off with you pretending fantasy is reality.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Captain Obvious strikes again!
I do see beauty ideals changing though.
The anorectic cique that burst on to the stage with 60ies Supermodel Twiggy is fading a bit, as far as I can tell.
I *do* like hugging cute ladies (who wouldn't?), I actually do it for pastime in Tango dancing and just the other week had the chance to dance with one of the best and IMHO most beautiful tango dancers of the world who also happens to have a body that is a perfect 10 (no that's not me holding her ... sadly :-) ). However, whilst Diana Cruz (the aforementioned tango dancer) does 3 hours of Yoga and Pilates each day and has professional dance training, dances a few hours of Tango each day and has the body and l33t dancing skillz to show for it, I do get to see, experience and hug a fair amount of more feminine rounded bodies and even some ladies who are pretty pudgy these days.
Long story short, I notice my interests shifting towards more "early last century" body ideals, or at least including them. I still think Twiggy looked (looks) great and I like myself a hot lady that is only muscles, bones and posture - quite a few of those in Tango, but I do also like well-rounded classic female bodies these days. Also quite a few of those in Tango. Duh. Yesterday I hung out with a lady who was on the brink of fat. Definitely overweight anyway. But she did have a little something going for her. A little excercise and work on her posture and she'd be a beautiful lady, even with the Cup-D breasts and some extra body-fat.
I expect perception to change further and eventually spill into hollywood aswell.
My 2 cents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Body mass index (BMI) is a measure of body fat based on height and weight that applies to adult men and women.
Do you need it written in crayon to get it?
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
I don't think those are real people.
They very much were. I've seen photos of them together; fully clothed, thank heaven.
Sometimes what we think is attraction is really domination of a weaker personality.
Roman Polanski treated poor Sharon Tate horribly, cheated on her & bullied her into orgies.
And that wasn't the worst he was capable of, as we later found out.
It's pretty hard to seem to be *less* deserving of sympathy than Charles Manson so it's ironic that the most famous surviving victim of his has managed it in the eyes of quite a few people.
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
In some universe where he was a sex symbol, as opposed to someone paid to have sex?
Rooney was famous, rich, funny, and hard working - he had 130 more acting credits to his name than the three actresses you listed combined. Now if you could dig up evidence that Taylor, Turner and Gardner all banged a moderately amusing part-time manager of a Sears store, that would be more impressive.
OK. Let's take the case of Artie Shaw. He was was a short (5' 5") dude with a receding hairline. He was a clarinet player, and a good one, but he hated the music business, gave up the clarinet, and became a novelist, and a dairy farmer, and a film producer, and the fourth-ranked precision rifleman in America. Of those, he was most successful as a marksman. The others, not so much.
But his greatest success was as a pussyhound. He went through eight wives, including Lana Turner, Ava Gardner and Evelyn Keyes, who were all smoking hot (and quite tall). And those were only the ones he married. He was known for squiring practically every showgirl on both coasts, half the B-movie actresses and at least two top-tier Hollywood superstars (mentioned above). There was a story, perhaps apocryphal, that Bob Hope once said he'd like to smell Artie Shaw's "clarinet".
So as far as I can tell from the recorded history, the only two men who bedded both Ava Gardner and Lana Turner were both shorter than 5' 6" tall. For those two tomatoes, I'd chop 5 inches off my legs.
You are welcome on my lawn.
And your other example is.....another hard working, successful guy. Who was also extremely competitive. How about that part time manager of a Sears store who's greatest accomplishment in life was a diploma from his community college?
Well, no argument there, except both ladies were within one inch of being 5'5" themselves. Not like Tom Cruise, who had a stepping stool for his portraits with Nicole Kidman.
But he wasn't that successful. Not when he was banging the broads. He struggled constantly in the second tier of bandleaders. He had a few hit records, but hit records back then didn't bring the cash the way they did later in the 20th century.
After he quit music, he failed as a novelist, failed as a producer, failed as a dairy farmer, and still pulled a ton of tail.
You are welcome on my lawn.
I went to Sears a while ago to buy a new Craftsman impact drill and the manager was absolutely not a decent guy.
You are welcome on my lawn.
A person who lacks any professional training in Psychology or Psychiatry and refuses to read or acknowledge professionals in the field. Fact facts, you are an irrational bigot. You deny science because it may hurt your feelings.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.