Slashdot Mirror
Foreign Students Have Begun To Shun the United States (axios.com)
In a potential threat to future U.S. innovation, new international enrollment at U.S. colleges is down for the first time in more than a decade, according to a new report. From the report: It is the first hard sign that the Trump administration's rhetoric may be frightening away some of the world's best and brightest who traditionally have been drawn to settle and work in the U.S. Why it matters: "The Chinese whiz kid, if he can find a way to America, he'll come here. If you're good, you can make a lot of money," Anthony Carnevale, director of Georgetown University's Center on Education and the Workforce, tells Axios. "That whole set of incentives has always been tied to the immigrant stream, and we're severing that connection." By the numbers: The findings are from the Institute of International Education's annual Open Doors report and its smaller joint "snapshot" report on international enrollment. It found that new international student enrollment dropped by 3.3% for the 2016-2017 academic year, and by a far higher 6.9% in the Fall 2017 semester.
I'm sure it has nothing to do with the exploding cost of education, it must be all Trump's fault.
Good now maybe the American students can actually start learning as there are fewer bad accent Teaching Assistants...
To us over here, going to the US now is like going to Germany in 1937 or something.
- I don't want to end up in a concentration camp ("black site") when flying over.
- Nor do I want to be anally fisted at touchdown. (The 9/11 terrorists did not land, now did they?)
- Or live among hyperselfish pschopaths. (I am basing this statement on research.)
- Or risk dying because I do not have $500,000 for a pill or simple operation.
- Or pay $500,000 to get an education that is free in my country.
Yes those are hyperboles. ... Sometimes. :P
I don't think there is any political system in the world that allows the 'best and the brightest' to rise to the top and run things in a way that benefits from their superior way of viewing the world. They are ultimately doomed to failure, too many corrupt toes to step on.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
"if these people are so smart why do they have to come to the U.S.? Why don't they have companies and universities that are just as good as the U.S.?"
Sure, but if they don't immigrate, you won't ever get a Nobel prize anymore in the future.
Straw man argument aside: getting rid of corruption and totalitarianism, which usually causes the other issues, requires a lot of things besides being a smart individual.
You can say that about the US. You could take an American who is studying in Germany and blame them for the worst incarceration rate in the world or the atrocities done in Iraq. However, that is pointless. One needs to separate the person from their government. Someone may be of the Han race, but not a Chinese citizen.
And as we close the door ever tighter against the rest of the world, they'll discover that they don't really need us, anyhow. They'll walk right past us and wonder how it ever was that people used to risk their lives to come here.
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
We need the brightest people we can get from everywhere in the world. Making the path easy and affordable for the best foreign scholars makes good sense. Every week we see major breakthroughs in science and technology announced from American research universities. Usually we see teams of three or so scholars being credited with the work and almost always the foreign names dominate the announcements. We need these people. What we do not need is an idiotic congress and senate being paid to accomplish nothing who are simply paid off traitors by special interests.
One needs to separate the person from their government.
And in the case of the student, they already physically have. Same with the international student coming to the US to study in many cases - it's partly about getting away at least for a while.
The alternative to globalism is protectionism. Protectionism has been tried many times, and it doesn't work. If anything, it's even less likely to work these days, now that we have the internet and global supply routes.
The way to deal with globalisation isn't to close our borders, it's to deal with the specific issues.
Education is too expensive, but would be even more expensive if it wasn't for foreign students. The fix is not to turn away that source of revenue that is subsidising local students, it's to deal with the high cost directly. In a lot of European countries university is free for citizens, and costs the government a fraction as much while still being world class institutions.
Jobs are going overseas. That's unfortunate, but if they didn't they would only be automated away anyhow. If not today, then tomorrow. We should help people adapt, to get new high end manufacturing jobs or move into services. Again, Germany has done that, Japan has done that.
The real solutions are hard, and blaming immigrants and globalisation is easy. That's the problem.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Because their countries/societies are shit not the people.
America house a lot of the global economy plus taxes aren't the worst in the world and it's a pretty free market so it make sense there's opportunity there for those who got something to offer.
Even if a country housed people who by average only reached up to 80% of the skill level of the average American you'd still got the outsiders and the occasional very talented person.
Since Trump's election I intentionally avoid al business (or holiday) travel to the US. At least we Europeans got to vote with our wallet. No need to support corrupt politicians, and their hateful followers. Many other pretty places in the world to visit and make friends.
Beyond Trump, maybe it's the general mood of Trump-haters and angry activists of all kinds versus Trump supporters and angry defenders of all kinds.
Why come to a country where everyone is angry all the time?
Why come to a country where no one can ever be happy?
Why come to a country where all the stories are about catastrophic environmental destruction?
Who wants to come here to be told they're a victim every day based on something that happened before they were born in their own country?
Why come to a country where succeeding financially is considered evil?
Why would a young person join a group that only talks about historic grievances and never about future opportunities?
Why come to a country where the leaders and entertainers and celebrities all seem to be among the worst examples of humanity?
Why not go to a country with good people and a good social atmosphere instead?
This view is deeply flawed.
Take Google as an example. You take it for granted that the Google HQ is in the USA, and hires Americans, but what if Sergey Brin was never welcome into the US or Standford, and instead he ended up going to a university in Russia or China or the UK or whatever, and creating his company there? What if Larry Page came to that same university in Russia (or whatever) because it was known as one of the best and most foreigner-friendly university in the world? Had that happened, the Google HQ would have now been in Russia, not California.
This may look absurd to you, but it can easily happen in a generation or two: the best students in the world are not welcome in Stanford, so they start choosing an almost-as good university in some other country, which gets better as more of the world's best students choose it. These students start to create companies in that country (if it welcomes them as immigrants), and suddenly it's no longer a "default" that every successful company needs to be in America. The American employees, which until now had an easy life when the world's best companies all flocked to America to employ them, will now need to start looking for jobs in other countries where these new companies are located.
Much of America's success in the last 100 years is due to its lax immigration policies, which meant that the best scientists in the world came to work in it and create new companies in it. I live in Israel and remember this happening in the 1980s: All the best scientists I knew were studying in the US, working in the US, or just visiting there. All their knowledge funneled into American universities and companies, and created jobs in America, not in Israel. I don't see how in any sense of the word, America suffered from this situation.
Can anyone say "false dichotomy"? I knew you could.
Put up walls, block out the rest of the world. It means you're limiting your society's access to knowledge and resources to those that are available inside those walls. This means you tend to develop socially and technologically at a slower pace than larger populations, and you tend to grow xenophobic which makes future interactions with the rest of the world more likely to be unfavorable.
Obviously the US isn't disconnected from the world entirely, but you guys certainly seem determined to blow up as many bridges as you can.
The alternative to globalism is protectionism
Yes, it's binary. You're either for globalism or protectionism. There is no middle. Only the two extremes.
Is it no wonder things are going to hell in a hand bag? People can't seem to understand that a middle exists. The world isn't binary. You've figured it out on gender, why can't you figure it out on political ideologies?
"I could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot someone, and people would still vote for me."
That, ladies and gentlemen, is the kind of man the people of the United States freely, willingly and knowingly chose as their President. That actually says a lot more about the people of the United States than about Trump himself.
Can you blame anyone in the rest of the civilized world for being freaked out by the fact that half the people of the country he's supposed to go live in for a few years clearly show signs of serious mental health issues ?
If our education system ran off of immigrant dollars, that was never sustainable or good, and we should celebrate its departure.
I suspect that any celebration of the departure of your education system will ultimately turn out to be a very short-lived one once the consequences of not having one start to hit home.
We tried globalism. It meant that everyone else was more important than we were
This is the most delusional description of US foreign policy that I've ever read in my life.
You do not even understand how distributions work. Guess your name will not be found among the "best and brightest".
The fact of the matter is that the best and brightest of a country (which is a small number of all people) will search opportunities abroad of a) things at home are not good and b) there are attractive opportunities abroad. Traditionally, the US got most of their best scientists and engineers that way, because US education sucks and US society seems to do its very best to discourage the smartest kids from developing their skills. Guess that parasitic arrangement will stop now.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Indeed. And most are too smart to go into politics in the first place. But the best and brightest can make a lot of money nonetheless, if conditions are right.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
And Trump was elected by a majority? Then there is the entire DNC scandal of Hillary being selected, not elected. The US people didn't ask for these people in office, but gerrymandering and other election tactics keeps them in power. You can ask almost any US Slashdotter if they voted or supported Trump... and you almost always will get a negative response.
People did show their voice. Too bad the system ignored it. Again, a person != their government.
After all, this is US. The rest is just THEM.
If our education system ran off of immigrant dollars, that was never sustainable or good, and we should celebrate its departure.
Baltimore City isn't self-sustaining. It has to bring in food from outside farms, since it doesn't have the climate to farm everything. It has to bring in material from outside quarry, as it doesn't have rich mines for every type of mineral. It has to bring in product from outside manufacturing, as it doesn't have every type of skill and factory. Even if we tried, we'd end up expending far more labor and producing far less per person than the folks all over the country and the world, meaning we'd work long hours for little wealth.
It also has to bring in outside money to not be poor, as what we buy into the city goes out of the city and up the supply chain.
When the major industry and commerce left, Baltimore collapsed. If Amazon put a secondary HQ here, we'd have $2.5Bn-$5Bn more of yearly wage income flowing to the city, being spent, and producing more jobs and more tax revenue. We'd be running off foreign money--non-Baltimore money coming in from all over the US east coast.
That's called trade.
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Well, you could always fund education from taxes, but that would be socialism (ducks)
I still read the alumni magazine my alma mater sends me. I read about amazing students and professors doing great things in their chosen fields and even starting businesses. Usually those businesses are in the US employing Americans.
And quite often these people come from other continents..
The school I went to is looking for the best students they can get and if they come from a foreign land that's okay. In fact, I'd be upset if they told some prospective student who was intelligent and had a good work ethic that they couldn't be admitted because they already had too many foreigners.
We should want smart immigrants who are willing to work for an education to come here. My ancestors just a few generations back were immigrants and yours probably were too.
Of course we could turn these students away along with all their potential. Maybe they'll go to Canada or Europe or maybe they'll start their own universities in Asia or South America or Africa which in a few decades will make our schools look merely average or worse because we told the best students to stay out of our country.
Americans need to wake up to the fact that they've squandered their dominance of innovation and the rest of the world is now moving on with out them.
Blame it on Trump if it makes you feel better, but this comes as no surprise to the rest of us.
of Americans, don't those numbers mean that hate crimes rose more for non-whites?
I mean even if just 50% of people are white, and hate-crimes rose, and 50% of the additional crimes were against whites, that would mean an exact proportional balance.
Lol, congratulations on the dumbest misuse of statistics I've seen in a long time. ^^
I don't think there is any political system in the world that allows the 'best and the brightest' to rise to the top and run things in a way that benefits from their superior way of viewing the world.
There are far more important reasons for that than corruption. We don't all agree on who the "best and brightest" are and we certainly do not all agree that their views are superior. Then there is the fact that the even those whom you think are the best and brightest may not want to go into politics because they usually have a good job that they enjoy and are unwilling to give it up for the uncertainty of elections and the type of job they will have if they do win.
Jobs gong oversees which "would be automated anyhow", would be automated in our home country, where some employees woudl work. Services would be rendered. Taxes woudl be paid. Your argument is very thin and incomplete.
I find it sad that, after half an hour, no one has challenged this:
If all these people are so smart, the "best and brightest", then why are their home countries a gigantic cesspool of filth, poverty, illiteracy, crime, violence and general misery?
Neither the article nor the intro says anything about which countries are not sending so many students to the USA. Which forces me to conclude that the AC believes that the entire world beyond the USA is "a gigantic cesspool of filth, poverty, illiteracy, crime, violence and general misery".
Unfortunately, all too many US citizens seem to agree. But it really isn't true. I live in England, which - while of course far inferior to Scotland - is a pretty decent country apart from its politicians. (And even they aren't nearly as bad as their American equivalents). Most of Europe is quite pleasant to live in (again, of course, were it not for the politicians and the ever-spreading blight of US corporations).
If you would take the trouble to read up on modern China, or Japan, or Singapore, or Russia, or Iran, or Brazil, or Mexico, or many other places, you would find that standards of living are soaring and people have a far more optimistic view of life than most in the USA.
By and large, the only countries that could accurately be described as "gigantic cesspools of filth, poverty, illiteracy, crime, violence and general misery" are those that the USA has attacked and completely, or partially, destroyed.
I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
Most of the time when someone "run things in a way that benefits from their superior way of viewing the world" they end up in conflict with the Constitution.
The Best way isn't always the Right way.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Except that if you look at a cross section of foreign students, they aren't always the 'best and the brightest' and come here for any number of reasons. Some believe they will be getting the best education at a certain institution and others may do it for prestige or perhaps as a path to citizenship. There are probably numerous reasons that I haven't mentioned but without looking at who is coming here and why the gross statistic doesns't tell us very much.
love is just extroverted narcissism
I'd say it's probably the latter. See, whiz kids get scholarships. Even the international ones can get scholarships and stipends.
Fu Er Dai (kids of nouveau riche) however, need to pay full price, and often do it with a newly bought American house paid in full with cash by their parents. Now, with US housing prices at historical highs, coupled with the Chinese economy cooling off, not as many families find it a good investment.
Add to this the growing perception that overseas degrees aren't worth all that much (mainly due to the fact that every dumber-than-a-brick Fu Er Dai has gotten one), and you can easily find explanations to the dip in numbers without alluding to Trump's rhetoric. And that's even without pointing out the fact that the trend started before last year's election.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
As someone who works at a university, I assure you, US students already are preferred - that's the law and it's just cheaper [no visa hassles] to deal with US students. International student's don't qualify for Federal financial aid either. The only undergraduate internationals we want are the full-pay students.
The problem, and this is especially acute at the graduate level, is that U.S. student's don't want to work too hard. Given the choice between STEM graduate degrees and MBA's, the U.S. students are opting for the MBA's. You got a Chinese TA in class because no one in the U.S. wanted the job.
We just did a faculty hire in physics. Based on surnames and whatever information was in the resume, we estimated that only a third of our applicants were from the U.S. The rest were born outside this country and came here for school. That's the current reality of higher ed.
People like you never seem to understand that a lot of voters chose Trump by default. They felt that, awful as he is in many ways, he was vastly better than Hillary Clinton - who seemed very likely to get us all killed (and indeed sometimes sounded as if that was her only aim in life).
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/...
I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
We don't need no smart foreigners, we got Trump - he's the smartest guy in the room - just ask him, he'll tell you! He's so smart he can do the thinking' for all of us and have brain cells to spare!
The already-wealthy are already free from the constraints of any given nation. It's the poor and middle class who want (and need) to take the best opportunities the world provides to them.
Patriotism is over-rated: go where the best opportunities present and where you're most comfortable. I for one will be glad that my kids will entitled to three citizenships (US, an EU country, a CARICOM country). More choice for them is a good thing.
That's the best outcome. Who can say America deserves to be world leader anymore? It's a cruel arrogant country that heartily enjoys bullying the world. The best revenge would be the world passing up the hated oppressors and rendering them impotent, left to stew on their own continent. No more bombing, no more ridiculous IP patent system to lock up ideas, no more police brutality and racism. It's for the best.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
... or they end up doing brilliant research in the US, that American finance, law, and public relations majors are unwilling to do, furthering the cause of science, making money for US companies, helping humanity, and maybe teaching the next generation of US students. Like it or not, a lot of our innovators were immigrants.
First of all, this article has a very biased viewpoint.
Foreign students have begun to shun the United States
That is stating that foreign students are making the choice to not attend schools in the United States. The data says no such thing. It is likely the same number of students desire to be educated in the United States as before, but there there are other factors that stand in their way (like having to enter the country through the legal processes).
Further, the article states "worth noting" (IE if they didn't state it they would be too blatantly guilty of expressing their bias without proper facts) that the big schools are affected "much less" than smaller schools that do not have Ph.D. programs. So considering the "best and brightest" are usually those seeking Ph. D. programs at the bigger schools, well, this isn't affecting the "best and brightest" at all.
The effect was much more pronounced in the Midwest and Texas, she said, especially at schools without Ph.D. programs, and at community colleges.
Ahh, now we get to the truth of it. This is about illegal immigrants from Mexico, which were attending smaller schools like community colleges. Isn't this to be expected? If it is harder to illegally enter the United States, and immigrants actually have to follow the policies that have been in place for decades, then less immigrants will be coming in, and thus we would see a drop in foreign enrollment at these kinds of smaller colleges in that specific region of the country.
Better known as 318230.
As a science student in a large, public, US university, I see very little "SJW stupidity" as you put it. Most of the students and profs are pretty apolitical on a day-to-day basis.
Apparently there's protectionism, free trade, and fair trade. I've been talking to the unions, so I've had to learn about fair trade.
Jobs are going overseas. That's unfortunate, but if they didn't they would only be automated away anyhow.
Actually, in many cases, "bringing jobs back" doesn't work. For example: if you brought manufacture of Chinese pants (at $3.20/hr labor) back from China (import cost: 6.5 cents per pair, $6.12 total cost at the receiving port), at American minimum wage of $8.25/hr plus 18% overhead (payroll overhead is 40%), you might create about 5,000 jobs net. When you bump up the wage, you start losing jobs.
Why?
A minimum-wage worker works 1.8 hours to buy a pair of pants at the average price (which was $14.97 at the time I did the math, by quick Google--this includes children's pants). To buy pants with the same labor hours in American total payroll costs, it's 3.0 hours. That also assumes Americans are skilled enough to make the pants at the same quality with the same labor and materials--we're not; most folks approach this argument by assuming Americans will overbuild (more material cost) and that the overbuilt thing will last longer, thus "it will be higher price because it's better quality". Basically, we can't do it to such precision, so we ham-fist it and claim it's magically better.
The middle-class will work fewer hours in either case to afford pants, and the ratio (3:1.8) will stay the same. Thus there's a decrease in affordability of goods: fewer pants or fewer other things. Folks like to argue here that "the money stays in the hands of Americans, so we're richer", but that doesn't hold true in any case, both for the reason stated here and because we'd need at peak 0.11% of our workforce making pants (insubstantial while everyone's getting slightly-poorer). We're also paying them out of the same income that everybody else already has--just redistributing the income from Chinese to American factory workers.
Retail cashiers can run about 980 scans per hour. Trucks ship a fixed number of a given set of goods. Shelf stocking, loss prevention, etc. Cut back the number of goods and you cut back the jobs. The short math for this is to divide the total dollar increase in cost of pants by the yearly minimum wage and call that the "maximum" number of jobs lost--which is a flat lie: many retail workers are part-time (so the number of "jobs" lost is higher, although the number of theoretical whole full-time jobs lost is not affected by this), while truckers make $40k/year or $140k/year for owner-operators ($100k/year to maintain the truck!). You'd have to project the number of mechanic and factory worker jobs invested in that truck to get an accurate number.
By the time you hit $20/hr+40% payroll cost at the factory floor, you're definitely losing more American jobs than you're gaining. Up to then, it's questionable. That's at $3.20/hr average Chinese total payroll cost.
If the Chinese labor cost is higher, then the break-even point for American wage and job loss is also higher. Likewise, if the jobs related to infrastructure, retail, and truck maintenance are higher-paying, then your lost job count is lower.
None of that actually matters because Americans are still working longer hours to afford the same goods anyway, so you've brought poverty back to America. As well, the labor force responds to job availability: if you make jobs more-available, your labor force expands to fill; less-available and it contracts. There are limits on this--especially on contraction--hence high unemployment in recessions. Population booms are the other side.
So, long-term, a slow transition of jobs to outsource just means we change what jobs and industries in which our workforce specializes. Short-term, you can really damage the economy with mass job exodus. You want controls to slow that (for the economy) and social safety nets to support the displaced worker (for t
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It is simple... in the past, the US sowed seeds, with a solid education system and a social safety net. This way, people focused on other than survival, and actually building something.
The current people we have don't understand that if you want a harvest (i.e. good, skilled workers), it takes some planting to get that. This shows that the philosophy behind libertarianism is dumber than even the most brain-dead farmer, as even Inbred Jed knows he won't see corn in his field unless he plants it. There is a reason why there are no Libertarian countries... the philosophy is not a viable one.
The point was an economic one: when you get out of hunter-gathering, you're sustained by outside money. When you're hunter-gathering, you frequently leave the land on which you hunt to find greener pastures.
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You're researching schools because you want to study well and succeed.
Are you put off by:
A). What Trump said about illegal immigrants from Mexico and about Muslims?
or
B). Viral, million view videos of activists storming libraries, disrupting campus, screaming at professors, screaming at fellow students?
Now imagine yourself as a parent who will be footing the bill. Are you put off by the former or the latter?
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
Reading the posts here just seems like a perfect picture of today's divided USA. Like all the Trump followers, I sense the descent of the US empire, just that they blame it on foreigners and I see it in the inability of Trump followers to grasp the reason of the power the US had for about a century. It was the center of the world in terms of science and talent. And in fact they did not get Nobels because they ended up in US, that is a pretty stupid point of view. Just check the roster of most top Universities.
What US controls is ::::). It really doesnt make sense though, spend more than you earn, and just print the rest.
1. Massive military leadership (which probably China will challenge soon, and lends a lot to science leadership)
2. Ability to keep dollar as the international trade currency (it does it through military means if needed. What is that great friendship to saudi royal family anyways
3. Science leadership which the protectionists try to demolish.
No leading nation kept it forever throughout history. It seems US has its turn about to be over. I actually hope it doesnt happen soon. There are more evil nations out there waiting to get the lead. Lets wait for the next election and see what happens.
I don't like Trump at all but I think American Colleges and Universities need to be for Americans first and foremost. I am not xenophobic but I am definitely not in favor of throwing the doors wide open to foreigners at the expense of citizens wanting a college education. I feel the same way about the importation of labor when we have the labor domestically to address industry needs. And, in the few cases where we do not, there should be programs to invest in the domestic labor force. The importation of labor is not about a lack of skills in the domestic labor pool, it's about foreigners accepting substantially less money to perform a task. Often they will accept offerings that are substantially below market value.
"every foreign national educated here means one spot taken from a US citizen" - you really have a fixed number of students per year that fills up? Sounds like a case for opening another university
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
"Education is too expensive, but would be even more expensive if it wasn't for foreign students"
Since when does high demand for anything result in lower prices? I guess you could argue that high demand causes more efficient competitors to enter the field and thereby reducing costs - that happens pretty much everywhere except education.
Education is a labor-intensive thing - largely immune to automation and other cost-cutting techniques used in other industries. More demand for education will raise the price - Econ 101.
Reduced demand for college/university education might actually help make the cost of these programs more affordable for the middle-class.
It's the fact that as a nation, we as a people would ELECT Trump, knowing what a mockery of a human being he was, and continues to be.
I mean, there's lessons to be learned - but hardly a motivation to go INTO this insane land to learn them.
It's sad that the professional class of politician is so bad that someone who never held office, but promises to finally do what the people have been asking would be chosen over someone with experience. There's your reason. The prior president who was closely associated with Trump's competitor promised to stop illegal spying and immediately endorsed it upon taking office. He ordered the extra-judicial murders of American citizens. He spent his last few years in office pandering to niche constituencies like BLM and Transexuals. Yet the left was shocked, shocked I tell you, that the middle of the country rejected more of the same.
Apparently there's protectionism, free trade, and fair trade. I've been talking to the unions, so I've had to learn about fair trade.
True, but let's look at those options.
Free trade. This can mean one of two things. You can have a situation like the EU, where the member states agree to have equivalent rules and regulations so that one doesn't have a big advantage over the others. The US kinda has it but states have more freedom to set taxes to any level they want, which results in citizens getting screwed as they compete for business with subsidies and tax holidays.
Fair trade is just globalisation or protectionism again, depending on what you deem fair. Either you have barriers because people in China work for a fraction of what Americans so (protectionism), or you accept that there is an imbalance and work with it like Japan and most of Europe do (globalisation).
Of course there are degrees, for example Europe does have some tariffs and barriers in place but generally the policy is to have developing countries either join the EU or have a relatively liberal trade agreement in the expectation that as they develop they will want to buy high quality European goods.
Either way your 1950s style manufacturing jobs are not coming back, evolution is the only option.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
It seemed so pathetic that it wasn't worth confronting. Still - well said. Couldn't agree more about the Scotland bit ;)
[nt]
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
...U.S. student's don't want to work too hard. Given the choice between STEM graduate degrees and MBA's, the U.S. students are opting for the MBA's.
US students who went to government schools probably got a mediocre education from mediocre people who spend their days going through the motions waiting for summer and retirement. When did US students ever see educated people as role models?
That's the current reality of higher ed.
Higher ed is a hostile environment. It's easier for foreign students to deal with it because they're protected by their subculture and relative isolation from the hostility.
Someone who doesn't need a student visa to avoid some relative misfortune will eventually decide to leave and go get a job. Working at a job isn't a paradise, but at least they want you there. It's about work and accomplishment rather than hate and politics.
I've seen a lot of bad research, and bad job skills, coming out of certain Asian countries. If anything I see them as a drag on research. Not all of them mind you, but a fair number of them.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
unlimited student loans backed schools make trade schools look bad and force others to part of the collage system with skills push out to 2-4 years just to get that piece or paper.
Why can’t Arizona feed itself without importing food from other states.
The US is the 3rd / 4th largest country having a wide range of resources, so we are not fighting over access to clean water, and food because we have the space to do such.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
People have been repeating that tired old canard about a failing society ever since the Irish started coming over in the 1840s. So far, it's survived.
standards of living are soaring and people have a far more optimistic view of life than most in the USA.
Don't believe anything you hear or read about Americans from the media. Or the internet. Especially Slashdot.
"THE" alternative? False dichotomy is false. Protectionism is the polar opposite, but far from the "only" alternative.
It's also a false presumption that all foreign students are the best and brightest and will only improve the US by their presence, which is what this article subtly suggests. Sound more to me like the less than the best and brightest will now realize they haven't got a sure thing and will be discouraged, but the true cream of the crop should still have good motivation for coming over.
How would education be more expensive if not for foreign students?
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
Funnily enough all the comments about SJW stupidity are posted by ACs. You might get the impression some group was trying to keep a meme going.
Germany has a good trades track as well with unions!
Even with out the unions we need a good tech / trades track also D1 football & basketball needs to have minor leagues. (they don't have time for class).
It used to be that industry was driven by their ability to access natural resources such as steel and coal. Today the resources in the information economy is knowledge and brains.
If you cut off the supply of either, your industrial advantages will die and other countries will outstrip you. The difference is the best people are mobile, sought after and a limited resource. If you don't attract them, other countries will and use their talents to build their universities and industries
America was built on attracting the brightest and best. It is the reason its industries are envied and copied, but they were built by offering opportunities to any who were willing to work hard whatever their nationality. The revisionist history is that America was built by Americans, but they forget that most of those were originally from other countries looking for a better life.
Choose your allies carefully, it is highly unlikely you will be held accountable for the actions of your enemies
The China argument is really strange. People talk about slave labor or something, and ignore that China's exports have allowed it to generate revenue to purchase new technology. That technology is expensive, and they wouldn't have been able to pay their workers well or buy it without exports to other countries: Europe and the United States have been funding China's rapid development, which has resulted in over a decade of growing wages and social insurances, while economic efficiency increases at a pace such that the fractional cost of wage per product manufactured has come down (e.g. with these new tools, the product costs the same if you pay the Chinaman $3.50 instead of $1.20, but they pay the Chinaman $3.20 and now it's cheaper!).
We got wealthier taking advantage of a wage gap; China got wealthier taking advantage of that wage gap, too. The wage gap is getting narrower as a result.
Fair trade tries to accelerate the growth of wages so as to raise standards-of-living in the developing country while slowing the loss of jobs in the importing nation, near as I can tell. It has its own disadvantages, for example by encouraging the mixing of low-quality product (which sells below fair-trade prices) into fair trade product. It also only slows the outflow of jobs; we need social insurances to carry those workers who lose their jobs until they can find a new opportunity--slowing it only means we don't have to care about those workers for our own comfort, since we don't collapse the economy at large.
Hard problems.
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It seemed so pathetic that it wasn't worth confronting.
I quite agree. But I have come to feel that, time permitting, one should always crunch such statements into the floor and grind down hard.
For the record.
As too many people believe that "silence implies consent".
I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
Someone thinks it's trolling to challenge the view that the entire world beyond the USA is "a gigantic cesspool of filth, poverty, illiteracy, crime, violence and general misery".
I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
Foreign students should do the extra effort of studying and working on their countries. The US just steals the best minds from other countries.
I think you're partially seeing the effect of this having happened already. I studied in the US as a foreign student (twice), and now encourage the students I teach to do the same. However, the advantages of them doing so aren't as clear any more. The US is still an intellectual powerhouse, but educational institutions in many other countries (particularly China) are growing in prestige. To go to a top level university it isn't absolutely necessary to go the US or UK any more. People in other countries have been putting the effort into their own institutions, and it's starting to pay off.
Travelers? What deranged nonsense. This kind of constant bullshit is what dissuades people. Trump can only say so much by himself. It takes a concerted effort by a much larger cabal of screeching idiots in order to dissuade people.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Well, on the one hand I'm glad I wasn't the one to say that...
I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
Detroit wasn't wrecked by immigration. It was built by it, and will likely be rebuilt by it. What wrecked Detroit was good, old-fashioned, locally-born corruption, racism, and differences in labor rules between states (aka race to the bottom).
I'm sorry, but what has Google contributed to society that's apparently so unique and unreproducible that we need to act like Sergey Brin and Larry Page are gods? Long before Google we had dozens of Search Engines. Perhaps without their "help" we would have a thriving Internet ecosystem instead of a monopoly on so many online services. We should be honoring people like the Wright Brothers, not some university grads that put together yet another copycat website.
I have been told more than once that American medical students are treated worse than the rich foreign students who bring in all the money. The schools can only hand out so many degrees and will always favor the money source
I'm sure it has nothing to do with the exploding cost of education, it must be all Trump's fault.
When he signs the save-the-billionaire tax deform bill, U.S. citizen graduate students earning $20-35k on tuition waiver assistantships will face the very highest tax rate. For example a graduate student earning $32,500 on an assistantship at a private university would pay taxes on $81,440. They would face a higher effective tax rate than Warren Buffet, George Soros, Bill Gates, Donald Trump...
This punishment for those who seek a Masters or PhD (doctors for example) would apply to U.S. citizen graduate students in the U.S. and those who study abroad for example on a Rhode's scholarship at Oxford UK. But the republican anti-edumacation tax would not apply to foreign students on a scholarship in the U.S. This means the xenophobic Republicans out there are going to have to cope with more doctors, TAs and professors who speak with a foreign accent. All this because education is toxic to the Trump fork of Republicanism.
because after a few years of living the good life they just plain forget what they bad life is like. They start to blame people for their poor condition to justify their opulent life styles. I've seen it time and again on smaller scales with the middle class.
Some of it's malice, but a lot of it is just plain being in a bubble. I've been crushed by a bunch of family illnesses and I can't tell you the number of times my better-off friends and extended family have wondered why I didn't just pay somebody to fix something that was broke or buy a new car. They literally have no clue.
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but unless you're in the top 10-20% your life is pretty much shit if you live in modern China, or Japan, or Singapore, or Russia, or Iran, or Brazil, or Mexico. You're ignoring vast swaths of poverty to focus on a fairly small class of well to do merchants.
Taken as a whole the majority of the planet _is_ a "gigantic cesspools of filth, poverty, illiteracy, crime, violence and general misery". That's not me being an imperialist America. That's just the way things are. Go google some statistics on global income inequality if you doubt me. It's pretty terrifying just how bad most of the world has it.
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I keep hearing this and it makes me wonder if all our home grown talent is that worthless. Remember, we're still getting the best and brightest because we still have the most money for them and the safest place to live thanks to our enormous military and police state. What we're giving up here are the above average. And what I'm hearing is there are no Americans who are above average.
Plus if the ruling elite can bring in students from overseas already have 18 years of education what incentive do they have to fund education for local kids? Most people can't afford to send their kids to private schools. Before public schools only the very wealthy were even taught to read. The rich started funding schools because they needed educated workers. If they can get those workers without paying for the schools (because somebody overseas is) they'll do it in a heartbeat.
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It can't be because college has become a shit hole where people don't actually learn anything useful. In zero classes did they ever teach things you will actually use in your life, instead it was all theories. Real Estate class? Never taught anything about property taxes or purchasing a home, but love to talk about city layouts. Business class? Taught company structures and basics of working in an existing company but not how to file the paperwork to create your own, or set up accounting for your own business, or how to file taxes or understand tax laws for your business. Science classes? Yea, thanks for teaching me how the inside of a cell works but not how basic nutrition affects a body. Now the world is full of a billion conflicting opinions on what is healthy. Arts classes? Thanks for teaching me that skill doesn't matter, just throw some garbage together and describe it with very emotionally charged words so people think hard about it.
Measured in real terms, USA does very well in both. Unless you measure optimism with a dipstick.
I am a drirector of a US R&D group for a large foreign owned company - the majority of our research PhDs at the individual contributor level are foreign born (most Chinese) - however most of research mangers and directors (all Phd) are native born. A couple of things are pretty clear to me 1) if there was not a good supply of highly skilled immigrant researchers my company would not have put its R&D in the US and 2) if you are a native English speaker who can compete technically with foreign PhDs you will end up in management - there is only a limited fraction of the population of any country that can perform at a high level, the US for whatever reason puts its high performers in finance or maybe software and then siphons the other specialists/talent from other countries - if this dries up I know at least for my company they will just leave - I also believe this is a key reason why the US has been technically dominant over other developed countries which have, in general, healthier, better educated populations
they care about now. Right now. The jobs are going overseas right now. The Automation is still 10-20 years out.
The reason solutions aren't going to happen. Period. Democratic Socialism and income equality are the real solutions. We're an oligarchy, not a democracy. MIT showed that in a study where they looked at how our government rules on issues vs what people thought on those issues. That's not going to change. People don't _want_ it to change. They're conservative. Because again, they're living paycheck to paycheck and they're terrified of any change that will push them over the edge to homelessness. That's not a bug, it's a feature.
The one viable solution that's being put forward is protectionism. Maybe we won't get it. But it's still the _only_ solution that has any political viability. Give people a choice between lesser evils and they _will_ pick the lesser. Yeah, it would be nice if we could stop picking among evils, but that's not on the table. Until we stop abandoning large swaths of the working class it won't be.
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Or one might get the impression that to criticize SJW stupidity is to burn karma by triggering a group that actively seeks to suppress speech they dislike.
Interesting how the post with the completely anecdotal rebuttal gets upmodded, seemingly oblivious of the events occuring at campuses like Evergreen college in Washington state, and the violent protests at Berkely to just name a few.
If the antics of anti-free speech SJW types on American campuses are going viral on social media and are making headlines on mainstream news, chances are good that foreign audiences will become aware of it and that reputation will be branded against campuses that aren't a hotbed of this kind of activity.
I object to the insightful moderation on this comment because it is fundamentally inaccurate. #PresidentTweety is the culmination of a long destruction of America, mostly from within, but also exploited by external adversaries such as Vladimir Putin. He was NOT the choice of "the people of the United States", but rather was able to stagger into the White House with the support of just enough mindless morons strategically located. I think the hilarious part is that the American system includes a number of safeguards that were supposed to prevent #PresidentTweety or anyone like him, but some self-proclaimed conservatives are so confused about "conserving" their own personal wealth that they actively supported the subversion of those safeguards.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
And apparently it's already under way.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
they see immigration as just another cheap good to be imported for profit. It's twisted to think that way but there it is. It's basically the same thing that happened to our transistor radio industry back when the Japanese started flooding the market, but with people instead.
What's more, Neither me or my kid can compete with a country of over a billion. Especially when that country eats people up and spits them out. Nobody can. They'll struggle twice as hard because if they don't they die in a gutter. And eventually we'll reach parity with them. Where the only thing that waits for anyone that trips up for even a second is the gutter. It's a race to the bottom. Karl Marx predicted all this but all anybody can remember about him is that Stalin & Mao borrowed his books for Rhetoric. Damn I hate people.
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I'll try to keep it simple: it isn't all the people in shit societies that are shit, just most of them.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I'm a worker, not am owner. E.g. I work for a living rather than own things for a living. What concerns me isn't the overall state of the economy. What concerns me is my place in it. I don't care how big the pie is if I never get a slice.
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I qualified my post by saying that in other industries demand encourages more efficient producers to enter a market.
Education is probably the least "mass produced" thing in our country. It's very labor intensive and highly specialized. Pretty much the opposite of mass production.
Higher demand for Education drives up cost. Just look at the last 30 or so years. Demand for higher education soared and so did the costs.
The idea that US professors are actively seeking people from their own country is a remarkable allegation.
I doubt they have the time, and what is the specific reward for the effort? Are you saying that foreign professors should be monitored for their hiring practices?
Rather, I think the alternative is true: US students (like British students now) are undereducated.
I'm sorry, but what has Google contributed to society that's apparently so unique and unreproducible that we need to act like Sergey Brin and Larry Page are gods? Long before Google we had dozens of Search Engines. Perhaps without their "help" we would have a thriving Internet ecosystem instead of a monopoly on so many online services. We should be honoring people like the Wright Brothers, not some university grads that put together yet another copycat website.
I don't think the Google founders are gods, but the reason we don't have dozens of search engines anymore is because Google was way better than they were. I remember the days of Lycos and WebCrawler and AltaVista, they were terrible at giving relevant results. Google became the biggest search engine because they were the best. It wasn't just a "copycat website", it did the job way better than the existing companies. Perhaps without their "help" (nice scare quotes!) we would still only have terrible search engines and walled gardens like AOL.
Enigma
You might get that impression, but for me the fact they are all AC and all using the same hyperbole is a factor. Or to put it another way - a named person with an anecdote >= pseudo horde with anonymous hyperbole
There's no shortage of jobs in...
(1) IT -- talking about corporate programming, factory control systems, etc
(2) Medicine/health -- there's actually a shortage of doctors, and nurses have no problem getting hired
(3) Science/research
(4) Engineering -- actually designing and building physical things
The only sector of IT that's ultra-competitive is "Silicon Valley" glamor stuff, startups hoping to build the next fart app. If you're an American, you major in something that's in demand, and you don't expect to move to San Francisco and strike it big, you'll do fine. Stop fearmongering.
Which Chinese? Which Indians? Which Hungarians? Which Swedes? You are aware that all these countries have many ethnic groups, and that the geographical distributions of the groups do not just magically follow national boundaries, right?
And I noticed this trend in the USA also: when I was there in 2000 being illegals would have made you blacklisted for 10 years, but no more under Obama rule.
False. Obama actually deported more illegals than any of his predecessors.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
You think McConnell, McCain, and Ryan are leftists? What a very strange world you must live in.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Good luck being self-educated if you want to do research or go into fields that require formal education (medicine, law, etc).
How many of that 3% drop are actual degrees (STEM) and how many are liberal arts/studies (not a real degree)?
That's not THE single dumbest statement I've read today, but it's up there. Thanks for sharing.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
You mean, insight into how Trump sympathizers are regularly victims of violence in the universities?
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Fair enough. Could you be specific about the hyperbole that is being used though? Because in the AC's comment that was modded into oblivion I didn't see anything that could not be backed up with examples such as the ones I mentioned. Some of the stupidity may also include the infantile 'safe spaces'.
It is also difficult for me to find hyperbole there when Antifa is putting up posters on campuses of people's faces that they've decided deserve harassment or worse.
The real solutions are hard, and blaming immigrants and globalisation is easy. That's the problem.
Exactly this!
First they caved to those Millennial snowflakes who consider free speech an obsolete Boomer holdover. Then they caved to the calls to hound as many male students and faculty off campus on whatever flimsy charges of sexual harassment, unsupported by due process, that they could dream up. If they drive away the Asians and their money, they're done for.
I'm sorry, but what has Google contributed to society that's apparently so unique and unreproducible...
Chill, it's merely an example. America is successful because post war it attracted a *lot* of successful and ambitious people. The last 70 years of American success is a direct byproduct of this.
GP is merely making the point that if you change this dynamic, you might have to get used wealthy and successful industries no longer making America their home. This flows on to employees and taxes and overall economic growth. If you turn the tap off, don't be surprised when you get thirsty.
We should be honoring people like the Wright Brothers,
This is the point. The next Wright Brothers might not be American, so wouldn't you prefer they came to America to start their industry and share the prosperity, or stay in their home country and make other people rich instead?
Who will fill all the vacancies at US Universities? Perhaps more American students?
Ken
Giving them jobs does. Calling them racists just pisses them off more and makes them double down. Stop screwing over the working class and their stop screwing over you (and themselves). Until the working class stops fighting among itself guys like Trump are going to keep winning and you and me are gonna keep losing.
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or China if the US is the leader in science or technology? Well guess what, it doesn't matter to somebody in Detroit. Nobody cares how big the pie is if they don't get a piece.
Us techies abandoned the blue collar workers when we let NAFTA through with chants of "Update your Skills", nevermind we cut funding to any real programs to help them do that. PEOPLE IN THEIR 30s AND 40s CANNOT WORK FULL TIME AND GO TO SCHOOL. Christ, most people in their 20s can't do that shit, that's why college drop out rates are so high.
I'm gonna Godwin the thread here: The reason the Nazis rose to power was because the rest of the world shit all over Germany after WWI. Now we've got entire swaths of the US that are in just as bad a state. Trump's a buffoon, but his successors won't be. And mark my words, they're going to do the same horrible things for the same reasons if we don't nip them in the bud now by giving people enough food, housing and education to do alright. Christ, it's like we didn't learn a God Damn thing...
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and they're plenty bright, but they're not geniuses. They're above average. And I know tons of kids who are just as smart and working at Walmart because they couldn't manage two work 40 hours a week while going to school while keeping the GPA you need to get into your 300 level courses these days and after Clinton & Bush Jr and a legion of Republican lead State Legislatures were done with budget cuts couldn't afford to stay in school.
What worries me about immigrant students is that we rely on the rich allowing us to tax them to pay for schools. Otherwise most folks just don't get to go. That's just a fact and you can hide from it if you want but it's there waiting for you. Now, if the rich can get kids ready to go from overseas why the hell would they pay the taxes needed to maintain an educational system? It just doesn't make sense. And you're seeing the effects of that now. What reading this didn't go to school with mostly Chinese kids in the CS dept? How many classes did you have taught by a Chinese person (often that barely spoke English, boy that was fun). You can look down on me all you want, but it doesn't change cold, hard facts. These were all cost cutting measures. Period. The rich aren't going to keep paying for your schools if they don't have to. Because why the hell _would_ they?
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and House before they were stacked with right wing wack jobs in the wake of the Mid-Terms. He was also busy trying to keep the economy afloat after the damage the Clinton/Bush deregulation did. What the hell was he supposed to do?
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businesses pay for them to come here and go to school. It's a back door to bring a worker in when they run out of H1-B visas. The bring somebody here who's already trained and for whom school is just a formality. They work as an 'intern' doing real production work. The business gets a cheap, well trained worker, the college gets a student paying fees but not really using educational services and everybody wins except the American worker who could have had that job but can't compete because they would have had to have a bunch of expensive training...
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You're looking from the outside in. He's a member of the working class and yeah, everybody else was more important than him. The US foreign policy was meant to help our aristocracy. It did a great job of that. But for everyone else we're just screwed. We're loaded with debt from our wars and our massive subsidies for the ruling elite. We work long hours in shit jobs and they get worse every day as outsourcing takes what few middle class jobs are left.
/..
The problem is we're local, not global. So globalism hasn't brought us anything good except cheap electronics we use to distract ourselves from our misery and vent a little on
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we've pretty much got everything needed for a modern economy. Even the rare earth minerals. The only reason we're getting them overseas is they're willing to abuse their population more than we are resulting in cheaper prices. China isn't better at manufacturing, they're more ruthless at it. Same with Mexico.
OTOH the rest of the world _does_ need us. China can't feed their population without our grainery.
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Why come to a country where everyone is angry all the time?
I'll give you this. Our lives suck. 60% of us live paycheck to paycheck, you've got no guarantee of health care or even food and water and you can forget about college if your parents aren't either rich or willing to give up their lives while you go.
Why come to a country where no one can ever be happy?
Also give you this. See above.
Why come to a country where all the stories are about catastrophic environmental destruction?
What the heck? You're barely allowed to talk about global warming and we just finished sweeping the whole "Puerto Rico destroyed by floods and still without power after 2 months" under a rug.
Who wants to come here to be told they're a victim every day based on something that happened before they were born in their own country?
Are you talking about Blacks & Slavery? Yeah, they're victims. It's called institutionalize racism. You saw it recently when a copy shot a well spoken black guy who was carrying with a permit not because he was racist but because a black guy with a gun made him unusually nervous. You saw it again when the NRA didn't lose it's shit over the incident.
Why come to a country where succeeding financially is considered evil?
That's the left, and it's mostly because rich people are doing evil things. Like taking health care away from children and the poor so they can have tax cuts. You do something evil you get called evil. Who knew?
Why would a young person join a group that only talks about historic grievances and never about future opportunities?
Are you talking about those damn confederate statues? I can't think of anything else. If you are those were put up during Jim Crow times to scare black people. If you're not I really don't know what you're on about.
Why come to a country where the leaders and entertainers and celebrities all seem to be among the worst examples of humanity?
I'll give you leaders. Not entertainers. Go watch late night talk. Jimmy Kimmel especially. That guy saves lives.
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we took them from them when we invaded. When it comes to weapons all that crap went right out the window. It'll be the same here.
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in the rust belt choose because they have nothing to lose. And we're going to get worse than Trump if we keep abandoning those people and yelling at them to somehow update their skills while working full time at 40 with kids.
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The Chinese Communist Party recently issued a proclamation that students educated in the west may not be compatible with "Chinese cultural values". I.e not be able to join the CCP upon returning, having difficulty getting a good job.
So of course they are less interested in coming. Particularly as Chinese universities are improving dramatically.
It is not all about the USA.
"Which chinese" which which which ? Are you dumb or what ? Chinese from China ! Nationals as you clearly understood it and pretend otherwise.
In addition to being semi-literate, you presume quite a lot, don't you?
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Not only is Trump discouraging clever immigrants, he is also dumbing down the country with his anti-science stance and soaring cost of education
One more time: You're a braindead asshat. Fuck off.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Comments like this (liberal arts degrees aren't real degrees) by ignorant engineering types always amuse me. Have you enjoyed any shows lately? Or read a good book? How about a good movie? Watched any of those lately? Most likely written by someone with a "useless" liberal arts degree. Set and costume design? Yes, people with those "useless" liberal arts degrees had a role in those.
Do you have any furniture? What about appliances? That sleek new iPhone or android phone? Thank someone with a "useless" liberal arts degree for the design of those items.
You are literally surrounded by the work of liberal arts degree holders. Everywhere you go, every day of the week. Stop being such a pompous ass.
You got a studies degree didn't you? How is working at Starbucks working out for you? Able to make those monthly payments?
I have a liberal arts degree. I work as an enterprise architect. I'm doing quite fine, thank you.
Airfares to the US from many countries are being heavily discounted because fewer people want to go there, or even through there. Right now, travelers from Australia and New Zealand (minimum 12 hour flights) can get fares to LA, SF or Houston for as little as $500, less than half price. But flying to Vancouver in Canada costs more than usual and flights full up rapidly. This is partly due to the US requirng everyone to apply for a visa (even if from "visa-waiver" countries) just to transit the US - sit in a room at the airport behind security waiting for an onward flight to another country. Most countries treat transit passengers as nor really there. For many years the US has also required travelers transiting the US to other countries to fully enter the country, collect their bags, recheck them, and go through Customs and Immigration and security twice just to board their flight to the onward country. They never leave the airport. Now there is Trump and daily masd murders by guns and the true insanity of doing nothing to stop it. Just lots of useless prayers. It's a hot, ugly mess of unbelievable stupidity with no end in sight. Why would anyone want to visit that? More and more just don't. Much easier, safer and less tiresome to just go elsewhere.
Only boring people are ever bored.
What "innovation" for the most part foreign students are a drag on education resources. It is easier for a foreign national to get a seat in a university and is many cases the US taxpayer subsidies this through various programs only available to foreign nationals and if the foreign student qualifies they also gain benefits from Affirmative Action. Along with the US taxpayer foreign governments often assist their citizens in how to game the US educational system. As well as taking care of their own at the expense of US citizens more importantly they get access to cutting edge research. Foreign enrollment also drives up the cost of education since citizen cannot pay they can fill that seat with a will subsidized foreign student.
Good schools should be USA first and not foreigners on a full ride that pay way more then USC's and get first in line.
The majority of people who spout this shit barely make the effort to go to school, and it is not as if international students come here free.
Unlike us citizens, foreign students pay the full blown price of tuition, 4, 5, sometimes 6 times what we typically pay.
So don't tell me this "USA first" shit. At least when it comes to international students (the fucking focus of this fucking topic), it is bullshit.
I mean their social rules of their society.
Lots of these countries aren't free democracies so it's not the people who have chosen the shitty rules. It's not the result of the wish of the people. But for sure people can choose shitty rules too.
If it's a good leader then why not, if it's a leader you don't agree with then I guess you're forced too it.
"Kind" may be pushing it. But if you pick up a gun to use it you likely got reasons. But what do that have to do with shitty leadership?
No you are not rite. It's not like all North Koreans, Chinese, Swedes, Iranians, Turks, Britons, Germans are shit just because their leadership are.
No. Because they often aren't democracies. At-least not fully. It's not the choice of the people it's the choice of the leaders.
Even here in Sweden we don't have rulers who are selected by the people and choose our destiny. We've got self-appointed rulers who try to select the people and decide the outcome. Also the EU is ever expending in power moving it further and further away from the people it's supposed to rule.
The societies are created by just a few, not by everyone by equal possibility.
Not too many people flee to the US? And if they did I don't think they want to recreated what they fled from. Sure some leave their systems but those unlikely want them, but many others look for opportunity and those aren't "fleeing" anything, except "less items" if you consider that something to flee from ...
Why Americans think everything is Zero-sum?
Casteism
ProTip: Not all value is measured in dollars.
But since you mention it, I work for a Forbes Top 5 software company. I'm not a developer per se, but I do work in development, and a large part of my job does involve reading, writing, and compiling code, and putting it through its paces.
I own homes in two countries, and one of them is already paid for. (The home, that is, not the country--I'm not *that* well off.)
As for what sort of degree I have? I'll never tell--it's much more fun watching you circumnavigate a round room, looking for a corner to piss in.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Good for you.
So you know how to code. No degree required for that. Skill, experience, and maybe a few certificates and that is about it. You are making my point for me. Thank you.
So you think I care about your degree? I think most are equally worthless, including the engineering degree I'm finishing up right now. Turns out all you need to learn engineering is a pile of books, self motivation, a semi-decent internet connection, and a lot of engineering paper. More or less the school has taught me nothing, while at the same time were quite glad to cash the checks that got sent to them. Luckily for me degree number 3 has cost me the same amount as the first 2. That would be zero (Scholarships are wonderful.) else I would be pissed about wasting my money on it. The only reason I am doing this is because you can't get an engineering license without an engineering degree.
Now try making the other 99.99% of that device work.
Wait what? You don't know how? Maybe you should call an engineer.