Apple iMac Pro Goes on Sale December 14th (engadget.com)

Apple vowed to ship the iMac Pro in December, and it's making good on that promise. From a report: The company has confirmed that its workstation-grade all-in-one will be available on December 14th. It has yet to reveal the exact configuration options, but the $4,999 'starter' model ships with an 8-core Xeon processor, 32GB of RAM, 1TB of solid-state storage and a Radeon Vega graphics chipset with 8GB of RAM. You can option it with up to an 18-core Xeon, 128GB of RAM, a 4TB SSD and a 16GB Vega chipset, although video creator Marques Brownlee notes that you'll have to wait until the new year for that 18-core beast.

Comments

Imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

A beowulf cluster of these

Re:Imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine spending $4999 on one of these

Re:Imagine

[cayenne8]

Imagine spending $4999 on one of these

I'm actually considering buying one...

I like the 5K screen, and need a beefy machine to run something like DaVinci Resolve for video editing, color grading, etc....especially if I start working with 4K footage.

I'm working on old hardware (MBP late 2011, with 16GB ram, SSD card replacement main drive, external thunderbolt work and cache drives)....and even with Photoshop, if I'm working with compositing several RAW files, I can bog my system down.

So, no...you don't really need this if you're just doing email and browsing the web.

I've priced out comparable HP and other systems...and they run well over $5K quickly as you start to beef them up.

And hey...it is a business write off!! Yet another good reason to incorporate yourself.

Re:Imagine

[torkus]

Needs beefy machine.

Runs 2011 MBP.

Do I fail the fanboy test here or does that not make any sense? A (very) small segment of the user population needs a workstation class machine. For those who do and want to run OSX...welp break out the corporate cards. For everyone else, you can get more for less AND not have such a high level of lock-in. Maybe Apple will even let you upgrade this system...!

Re:Imagine

[cayenne8]

Needs beefy machine.

Runs 2011 MBP.

Well, I've been struggling with what I have for a number of years....and right now, the old system doesn't do what I need.

Not to mention, for big purchases, I like to save my nickles and dimes and buy what I want/need with cash and have no buyers remorse...therefore rather than make lots of small purchases, I save up and buy big and best as I can periodically.

Currently, I can bog the little systems down for DAYS at a time with a heavy After Effects render.

And I can't do much with Resolve before it halts things to a snails pace.

So, yes, I'm looking for dropping some coin on a high end workstation type unit, that will hopefully get my preferred workflows going at a manageable speed, and hopefully, last me for a few years to come.

Again, I've looked at something comparable, as recommended by Blackmagic Design, for running Resolve (linux or windows) with the HP Z840...which also get $$$ very quickly.

I did a very quick comparable on the HP z840 to the base iMac pro and it was about $4665...it isn't exact, but is close to what Apple purports the base iMac pro to be. And also, the iMac pro includes the 5K 27" monitor which you would have to add to the HP or other comparable unit.

No, not everyone needs this type of workstation, but if you are wanting to do a good bit of quality video, SPFX and even some high end photography compositing, etc....a nice high end system can make your day and workflow work for you.

Re:Imagine

[hipp5]

And hey...it is a business write off!! Yet another good reason to incorporate yourself.

I don't know how it works in your jurisdiction, but here in Canada there is no need to incorporate to claim business expenses on your taxes. A computer would be depreciable property though, so you wouldn't be able to claim it all in one year.

Re:Imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess you don't know that for $5K you can get a way more powerful computer than this Mac Pro.

Re:Imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

And hey...it is a business write off!

you don't even know what a write off is

Seriously. Write off doesn't mean free.

Re:Imagine

[Hal_Porter]

Maybe Apple will even let you upgrade this system...!

We've heard that one of our customers bought some bad Ram or SSD or something and had a bad experience and also they like thin machines. So we've decided to solder it all down.

Still for a hefty premium you can order the machine with extra Ram.

https://www.apple.com/shop/buy...

How does $400 for an extra 8GB Ram and 128GB of SSD sound like?

Now you'll say "That sounds expensive. I could buy the RAM for $91.76

https://www.newegg.com/Product...

And a 128GB SSD for about $133

https://www.newegg.com/Product...

Presumably Apple buy stuff cheaper than I do. E.g. look at the spot prices for NAND and SSDs here

http://www.dramexchange.com/

So why is it it $400? Other than that you've got me over a barrel.

And, more to the point if the system were upgradeable I could buy the unupgraded version now and buy more Ram and a larger SSD later when/if I need them. At which point they'll will be cheaper.

Like I did with my Macbook Pro 2012. That was about $1200. Now for a future proof machine I need to pony up $1699.

Suddenly Windows 10 doesn't seem so bad. I bet I could even get XCode running in a VM on an Asus laptop if I had to.

Re:Imagine

[cayenne8]

I don't know how it works in your jurisdiction, but here in Canada there is no need to incorporate to claim business expenses on your taxes. A computer would be depreciable property though, so you wouldn't be able to claim it all in one year.

It makes it much cleaner in the US to incorporate yourself to write off business expenses. And here I can most definitely write off and claim the entire amounts in the year purchased.

My CPA says I can, so I do....so anything computer or camera related (hell most anything even close to being something I attempt to make money with) I write off each year.

Re:Imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

Please link me to one

Re:Imagine

[cayenne8]

Seriously. Write off doesn't mean free.

Of course it doesn't mean free....

But a % savings on my tax bill is always a welcome thing, and I have to buy equipment anyway, so, nice to save a bit wherever I can!!!

Re:Imagine

[ilsaloving]

I believe it's actually ECC RAM, which is much more expensive than the conventional desktop variety.

The thing between Microsoft and Apple is, with Apple, you know right from the beginning that they're going to gouge you, but after that they're pretty good. Quality is good. Reliability is good. You don't have to deal with bullshit. (Well, historically this has been true... this past year Apple has done a fantastic job of shoving their reputation through a woodchipper).

Microsoft, on the other hand, will screw you each day, every day, and you will either learn to accept it or throw your hands up and switch to something else. Their quality is shit. Their QA is shit. They demand that they have control of your machine, but they don't want to take responsibility for your machine, with the end result that your computer can go tits up one day through no fault of your own.

As obnoxious as Apple is, there has never been a report, for example, where all Macs across an entire continent were suddenly yanked off the net due to a bad dhcp update. Microsoft has had so many bad updates that have hosed entire fleets of machines, that it's shameful. But because Microsoft has a monopoly, they can get away with it.

Of course, I shouldn't speak too soon because so far I am very unimpressed with High Sierra, iOS 11. They have been buggy messes. And don't get me started on what they've done to their macbooks in recent years. The only reason I haven't gone back to Windows is because Apple and Microsoft seem to be in a "Hold My Beer" competition, and I can't predict how things are going to shake down, so I'll stick with the costs I have already sunk.

Re:Imagine

[Moridineas]

You absolutely don't need to incorporate (or form an LLC--the more common option for individuals. An LLC is NOT a corporation), but they do make accounting and taxes cleaner.

As a sole proprietorship you just add a tax form Schedule C and you can deduct and expense what you need. You have the option of deducting many expenses (like a computer) using "Section 179" deductions that let you take the whole amount in the year of purchase, as opposed to depreciating.

Re:Imagine

[TheFakeTimCook]

Needs beefy machine.

Runs 2011 MBP.

Do I fail the fanboy test here or does that not make any sense? A (very) small segment of the user population needs a workstation class machine. For those who do and want to run OSX...welp break out the corporate cards. For everyone else, you can get more for less AND not have such a high level of lock-in. Maybe Apple will even let you upgrade this system...!

You say the "You can get more for less", and then proceed to NOT prove it.

Good job!

Re:Imagine

[TheFakeTimCook]

Suddenly Windows 10 doesn't seem so bad. I bet I could even get XCode running in a VM on an Asus laptop if I had to.

Found the Troll...

Re:Imagine

[cayenne8]

As a sole proprietorship you just add a tax form Schedule C and you can deduct and expense what you need. You have the option of deducting many expenses (like a computer) using "Section 179" deductions that let you take the whole amount in the year of purchase, as opposed to depreciating.

Well, being that as it may...like you said, it is cleaner to do it if incorporated.

If you're doing ANY type of even remotely significant business, you should incorporate, the sole proprietorship thing is about the worst option you can take. You are open personally to litigation (lose the family house)....etc.

In most states, you can incorporate very easily, fill out a couple forms, pay a small fee (usually under $100)...and voila you have legal and tax protections and capabilities you do not have as an individual.

I went the short extra step and filed for federal Subchapter S incorporation (aka S-Corp), with this I have the added benefit of NOT having to pay employment taxes (SS and medicare) out of my full bill rate.

I am sole owner and employee of my S-corp. It works like this..example: Say I bill out $100K a year. As an employee, I pay myself a "reasonable" salary (according to the IRS)...of about $40K say.

Now...out of the payroll paycheck the company pays me monthly, I take out state, federal, SS and medicare taxes.

So, that leaves the remaining $60K that falls into my personal income taxes at EOY.

Now...after I deduct all expenses, expenditures, etc...what is remaining...is ONLY taxes at my personal rate for state and federal taxes. I don't have to pay SS/Medicare on that income.

. Of course I have a CPA and this requires a bit of extra paperwork and paying taxes on the web mostly to feds and quarterly to state....but I save a significant amount of tax money this way.

If you are a LLC, you pay employment taxes on 100% of what you bill.

Now my example is for basically contract consulting, services...if you're selling stuff, dealing with inventory and sales tax...that's extra efforts.

But anyway, it isn't rocket surgery to incorporate yourself, nor is it $$$. You have SO much to gain and so little to lose vs Sole Prop.

Re:Imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I can. Be great for number crunching data from a Mass spectrometer, or doing bioinformatics calculations.

We will probably look at getting a few early next year when the 18 core models are available.

Re:Imagine

[jellomizer]

In general if you build a system Spec per Spec to try to match the Apple Product you are going to pay about the same price +/- $100. However the real question is how many of these features you are matching do you really need or want. Where you can build a system at less of the specs and save a good amount of money.

Apple isn't over charging for their products, but they are not offering a lot of choices that would meet our needs per price.

This is a very old argument. However it still holds up.

Re:Imagine

[Hognoxious]

Sounds fishy to me. A business expense is a business expense, it isn't intended to subsidise your hobby. You might get away with claiming your golf clubs - if your main business is teaching golf.

Re:Imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

16 gb vega card isn't on the market yet, prolly 700-800 when it hits

Re:Imagine

[TheFakeTimCook]

Please link me to one

Notice, they NEVER do...

Re:Imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

The z840 is a double processor supported board; a better comparison would be the 440

Re:Imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

Found the ipologist!

Re:Imagine

[TheFakeTimCook]

Why... thought? I mean buying a product at $5,000 and it comes with a graphics card, that's two generations behind? Because of some weird brand-love that Apple wants to have with AMD? There's truth in that Apple people don't need the top-end hardware, and then there's truth in fucking over your customer with a high energy consumption, louder, shittier product in all respects.

They explained that "brand new love" when the MBP 2016 came out.

It has to do with the number of 4k and 5k displays that can be driven, and since you can take advantage of that with TB, and considering that this is much more likely to be used as a high-end GRAPHICS machine, rather than a Polygons-per-second GAMING machine, the decision makes perfect sense.

Re:Imagine

[cayenne8]

Sounds fishy to me. A business expense is a business expense, it isn't intended to subsidise your hobby. You might get away with claiming your golf clubs - if your main business is teaching golf.

No, I try to be quite careful.

It does just so happen, I want to monetize something that also is a personal interest (which often start off as a "hobby" ).

But I have made genuine efforts to monetize the results of those equipment and software purchases.

While I have earned some money off them to date, it isn't nearly what I"ve spent so far, but I do show I'm trying. That isn't the only part of the company business, some are more profitable than others, but I can fully show intent and efforts to make money with those purchases and activities.

The majority of my company is related to IT, but that can be a VERY broad thing these days, as the there is a good bit of IT relating to videography and photography....the equipment for processing, generating, websites for promoting, sales...etc.

No, I'd never think to buy golf clubs and try to write those off as one of my expenses. I'd think even if trying to justify for entertaining clients it would be a stretch, but for most anything electronic I buy, it is pretty much justifiable.

And, no one has ever said you can't try to make money off of doing something you enjoy, right?

Hell, isn't that the "dream" most of us have?

Re:Imagine

[BronsCon]

My Ryzen build with dual 4k displays, dual GPUs, 64GB of RAM, 1TB of m.2 PCIe storage clocking in at ~4GB/sec read/write and 1TB of SATA RAID SSD storage clocking in at ~1GB/sec read/write runs circles around the iMac Pro for $1k less. I was a launch-day adopter of the platform and bought parts on preorder; most of the parts I bought are cheaper now, none have increased in price, so you could probably build this same system today for closer to $3500.

You good, bro?

Re:Imagine

[BronsCon]

So the current-gen cards can drive fewer displays than the older ones? Huh...

Re:Imagine

[tylersoze]

Yep, S-Corp all the way. I'll be saving about 10K this year on Medicare and SS payroll taxes.

Hopefully this time next year I'll be writing off a big *Mac* Pro expense.

Re:Imagine

[cayenne8]

My Ryzen build with dual 4k displays, dual GPUs, 64GB of RAM, 1TB of m.2 PCIe storage clocking in at ~4GB/sec read/write and 1TB of SATA RAID SSD storage clocking in at ~1GB/sec read/write runs circles around the iMac Pro for $1k less. I was a launch-day adopter of the platform and bought parts on preorder; most of the parts I bought are cheaper now, none have increased in price, so you could probably build this same system today for closer to $3500.

I had actually considered doing a DIY build of a thread ripper system, as that I understand I could put together a fairly massive system, for linux that I could run Davinci Resolve on and do 4K video.

The trouble is, I haven't tried building a computer in multiple decades....and I don't have time to spend researching the myriad of material combinations (cpus, vs boards vs power supplies vs....etc).

I would, however, be more interested if there were a build list of a proven system for doing a high end workstation that would run Resolve....do you have a listing or know of site(s) that have parts lists to get to build a good high end system like I'm wanting?

I'm not married to Apple....but I do know that it will run everything I need (in this case would do Resolve, Photoshop, FCPX, LR, AE...basically all my photo and video stuff) right out of the box.

I want to get a system working quick and spend most of my time doing photos and videos....I really am not that interested in tweaking around on the computer itself, but the tools it needs to run....FAST.

Thanks in advance for any links or such you might have....

Re:Imagine

[cayenne8]

Hopefully this time next year I'll be writing off a big *Mac* Pro expense.

Have you heard anything about a Mac Pro release?

I have been waiting a LONG time already and really need a better AV system to work on....

Not sure I want to wait another WHOLE year for the Mac Pro that may or may not be coming out in 2018.....

But yes....I like writing off new computers...every little bit helps!!!

Re:Imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

pcpartpicker.com is good if you want to see other builds people have done. There's plenty of review sites that help out, but if you aren't super concerned with details just clone someone else's successful build.

Re:Imagine

[Hognoxious]

Keeping the same number would be timid. Increasing it would be downright cowardly!

Re:Imagine

[BronsCon]

I'll second the recommendation made by the AC above me and throw in that it's a lot easier today than it was a couple decades ago; not that it was too difficult back then, either.

Re:Imagine

[exomondo]

I did a very quick comparable on the HP z840 to the base iMac pro and it was about $4665...it isn't exact, but is close to what Apple purports the base iMac pro to be. And also, the iMac pro includes the 5K 27" monitor which you would have to add to the HP or other comparable unit.

But you also get expandability, and of particular interest in your specific case Resolve leverages multiple GPUs so if things start to slow down you can simply add another GPU to the HP system and you're good to go, to improve the performance on the iMac you have to scrap the entire system, including the display, and buy a new one.

That's not going to be the case for everybody but certainly in your case the choice of something expandable is definitely the right one. If you really just want an Apple then holding out for the improved Mac Pro would be the right choice over the iMac.

Re:Imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't think anyone was this clueless, but Amazon.com is a large, online retailer that sells almost every consumer product, including computer parts. Feel free to have a look around and put something together.

If you're asking me to put something together for you, we will need to work out your payment arrangements. I don't work for free.

Re: Imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

If he compared the imacpro to the z440, instead of the z840 it would be only sort of overpriced.

I'm just glad Apple finally has a touch screen, designer class system to compute with the $2999 and up MS Surface Studio line.

Wait, twice the price and no 5k touchscreen?
Classic Apple.

Re:Imagine

[Megane]

Needs beefy machine.

Runs 2011 MBP.

Do I fail the fanboy test here or does that not make any sense?

2011-2012 was the last time you could upgrade the RAM and SATA drive yourself. Late-2011 might imply he's using the 17" version, which was discontinued in mid-2012 without a refresh, when the Retina series was announced. They're still nice; I'm using one right now. One more refresh and it would have had USB 3.0. The only way a 17" can get USB 3.0 is with an ExpressCard, and the card needs an external power supply to get 500ma out of a port to power an external drive. (I suppose a Thunderbolt-to-USB 3.0 interface is possible, but it would also need external power.)

Re:Imagine

[resignator]

Why not just install iOS on an intel based system if you hate win10 so much? It's much cheaper than buying overpriced apple hardward and you can upgrade anything you desire. There are a few methods but Unibeast works like a charm for legit purchased copies of iOS. All you need is an external HD and internet connection.

Re:Imagine

[Megane]

Because of some weird brand-love that Apple wants to have with AMD?

Probably more due to brand-hate for Nvidia, after all those crappy mobile GPUs they got back in 2010-2012. (Crappy as in the internal chip mounting was crap and they would die after a few years of use.)

Re:Imagine

[Hal_Porter]

I believe it's actually ECC RAM, which is much more expensive than the conventional desktop variety.

'Snot true

https://everymac.com/systems/a...

This model is powered by a 14 nm, 64-bit "Seventh Generation" Intel Mobile Core i5 "Kaby Lake" (I5-7360U) processor which includes two independent processor "cores" on a single silicon chip with 64 MB of eDRAM embedded on the processor die. Each core has a dedicated 256k level 2 cache, shares 4 MB of level 3 cache, and has an integrated memory controller (dual channel).

https://ark.intel.com/products...

Max Memory Size (dependent on memory type) : 32 GB
Memory Types : DDR4-2133, LPDDR3-1866, DDR3L-1600
Max # of Memory Channels : 2
Max Memory Bandwidth : 34.1 GB/s
ECC Memory Supported : No

Re:Imagine

[diamondmagic]

https://www.apple.com/imac-pro...

Memory
32GB of 2666MHz DDR4 ECC memory
Configurable to 64GB or 128GB

Re:Imagine

[Hal_Porter]

My comment was bitching about them charging $200 for 8GB DDR4 2133 for a Macbook Pro. That costs $200 because you have to buy it from them when you buy the device, not because it's ECC.

32GB
32GB of 2666MHz DDR4 ECC memory
Configurable to 64GB or 128GB

I'm guessing configuring it to 64GB or 128GB is going to cost you a lot of cash per GB. If Apple charge $200 for 8GB of non ECC memory for a Macbook Pro, how much will they charge for 32 or 96GB of ECC stuff for an iMac Pro?

And, in true Apple fashion the Ram on the iMac Pro isn't upgradeable unlike in the 5K iMac, so you need to order the device with the maximum amount of memory you think it will need over its life.

https://www.macworld.com/artic...

Apple has announced that the iMac Pro will be available beginning Thursday, Dec. 14 starting at $5,000 for an 8-core Xeon procession, 32GB of RAM, an 8GB Radeon Pro Vega GPU and 1TB SSD. That's a lot of machine, but itâ(TM)s hardly maxed out. Customers will be able to customize the iMac Pro up to an 18-core Xeon chip, 128GB of RAM, 16GB GPU, and 4TB hard drive.

But as Marques Brownlee points out, you might want to pony up some extra cash up front. Brownlee got a chance to play with the new 10-core machine for a week, and while he praises the speed, he notes that the iMac Pro isn't user upgradeable. Even the RAM door that is on the back of the 5K iMac is gone, which will surely upset power users.

Re: Imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

So, where are all the people who say 8GB of RAM is all that anyone should ever need?

Re:Imagine

[cayenne8]

I'll second the recommendation made by the AC above me and throw in that it's a lot easier today than it was a couple decades ago; not that it was too difficult back then, either.

Ok..so that site he listed is the go to one for finding out successful builds?

Re:Imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

That often-cited "advantage" that it comes with a 5k display is problematic too, once the machine has outlived its use case you have to throw the whole thing away.

Re: Imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

This isnâ(TM)t a consumer product...

Re:Imagine

[Uberbah]

My Ryzen build with dual 4k displays, dual GPUs, 64GB of RAM, 1TB of m.2 PCIe storage clocking in at ~4GB/sec read/write and 1TB of SATA RAID SSD storage clocking in at ~1GB/sec read/write runs circles around the iMac Pro for $1k less.

Yeah, you can build your own system for less than what an OEM will charge. WYP?

Re:Imagine

[BronsCon]

WYP?

"You can get more for less"

It was pretty clearly stated in the post I was replying to, actually.

Re:Imagine

[TheFakeTimCook]

My Ryzen build with dual 4k displays, dual GPUs, 64GB of RAM, 1TB of m.2 PCIe storage clocking in at ~4GB/sec read/write and 1TB of SATA RAID SSD storage clocking in at ~1GB/sec read/write runs circles around the iMac Pro for $1k less. I was a launch-day adopter of the platform and bought parts on preorder; most of the parts I bought are cheaper now, none have increased in price, so you could probably build this same system today for closer to $3500.

You good, bro?

Are you running that as a Hackintosh? If not, you are losing a significant "hidden value" right there, IMHO.

Then there's the little matter of no warranty. Believe it or not, OEMs co spider that as a COGS for their products. Whether or not that is worth an extra $1k is, of course, debatable... ;-)

And yeah, I'm good...

Re:Imagine

[TheFakeTimCook]

So the current-gen cards can drive fewer displays than the older ones? Huh...

Where did I say that?

Re:Imagine

[BronsCon]

Are you running that as a Hackintosh? If not, you are losing a significant "hidden value" right there, IMHO.

No, as unmodified macOS install images don't run on AMD and there was no Ryzen kernel available the day I built it. Add to that, some of the software I built that machine to run simply doesn't exist on a Mac. My DAW, for example. Even if I were willing to adjust my workflow to a new DAW, many of my (expensive) VSTs don't have Mac versions; even if I were willing to spend the money to replace those, the replacements wouldn't provide the same functionality or sound, so it's not even an option.

Then, there's gaming... even my "I'll never use a PC" wife now maintains a Windows laptop for gaming because Mac ports of games, when they even exist, just simply suck. Take Fortnite as a recent example; not only is the macOS version roughly twice the size of the Windows version (I can't imagine why and won't speculate, I'm simply stating it as a fact), it barely runs on a brand new MacBook Pro. And I'm not talking about low framerates at the lowest quality settings; that's what I've come to expect from a Mac when gaming is involved and I would have accepted that just as well... No, I'm talking about 1-5 second stalls. Amazingly, when it's not stalled, it has no trouble keeping up on more or less medium quality settings, but the stalls kill it.

What prompted my wife to seek a PC for gaming was, of all the simplistic crap a Mac could possibly have trouble with, The Sims. Even her 2016 5k iMac with 32GB of RAM struggles to run it at 1080p with moderate quality settings. I was in a state of utter disbelief when she told me, so I spent a couple hours working with her, tweaking the settings, insisting that she must have messed the settings somehow to make it so slow and unstable but no... Mind you, she does have a lot of mods and expansions, so my next move was to blame those. No, she hadn't gotten it running satisfactorily enough to have bothered installing them by that point. When I built my workstation, I ended up giving her the Windows laptop I had been using and, despite having half the RAM and an older-gen i7 than the iMac, she's managed to get all of her mods and expansions installed and working and it runs fast and stable at 4k.

Like most people, my wife and I derive value from our systems by using them for the things we want (or need) to use them for; some of those things are just better on Windows. For my primary work tasks, the MacBook Pro w/ Touch Bar that I'm writing this post on currently (a machine I swore, when it was released, I would never buy, mind you) is more than sufficient; for the things I built that workstation for, the Mac platform isn't even an option. Perhaps if Apple sold systems with that kind of power, developers of applications that need that kind of power would bother dedicating resources to maintaining (or creating; many simply don't exist) their Mac ports?

Then there's the little matter of no warranty

No warranty? Every part I bought has a warranty, many of those are longer than the 1 year I'd get from an OEM. Sometimes it's hard to take you seriously.

That autocorrect made me giggle a bit, tho... I'm assuming you meant "consider"?

Re:Imagine

[BronsCon]

It has to do with the number of 4k and 5k displays that can be driven

You didn't outright say it, but you sure implied it.

You used to have such good arguments for the Mac; what happened?

Re:Imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

>As obnoxious as Apple is, there has never been a report, for example, where all Macs across an entire continent were suddenly yanked off the net due to a bad dhcp update. Microsoft has had so many bad updates that have hosed entire fleets of machines, that it's shameful. But because Microsoft has a monopoly, they can get away with it.

For some, that was a similar difference between Hillary R. Clinton and Donald J. Trump.

Re: Imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you a fucking idiot? Of course it's a consumer product. It's not just available to some government agency, nor is it prohibitively expensive and it's available to anyone who wants to buy it.

Re: Imagine

[Brockmire]

This is your one and only rig, so you'll be using it for non-business use as well I assume, would be an expense for only the percentage of its use that is only business?

Re:Imagine

[BronsCon]

Yes, there is a section there to start a build, which will more or less guide you through the process of picking parts, as well as a section of build guides and a place to post your completed builds. You can also just browse individual parts and find lists of compatible components for each part (which is what the "start a build" option on the homepage uses to guide you, by the way). It's been a while since I've used the site but it doesn't look like a whole lot has changed in that time, definitely a good resource.

Re:Imagine

[Yaztromo]

But you also get expandability, and of particular interest in your specific case Resolve leverages multiple GPUs so if things start to slow down you can simply add another GPU to the HP system and you're good to go, to improve the performance on the iMac you have to scrap the entire system, including the display, and buy a new one.

That is not true -- macOS High Sierra supports external Thunderbolt 3 connected GPUs.

Yaz

Re:Imagine

[ilsaloving]

Because, and please correct me if I'm wrong, there isn't a single hardware combination that works 100% without some kind of issue. And even if there was a perfect 100% hardware compatible system, you *still* can't take advantage of certain key features such as FileVault.

I've already tried going the hackintosh route, and at the end of the day it just wasn't worth it. It was easier to just say hell with it and pay the extra money on official hardware.

Re:Imagine

[TheFakeTimCook]

Are you running that as a Hackintosh? If not, you are losing a significant "hidden value" right there, IMHO.

No, as unmodified macOS install images don't run on AMD and there was no Ryzen kernel available the day I built it. Add to that, some of the software I built that machine to run simply doesn't exist on a Mac. My DAW, for example. Even if I were willing to adjust my workflow to a new DAW, many of my (expensive) VSTs don't have Mac versions; even if I were willing to spend the money to replace those, the replacements wouldn't provide the same functionality or sound, so it's not even an option.

On a Mac, use Logic. Period. And there is now a Freeware VST-Wrapper (which also has a 32-bit to 64-bit Wrapper, too!) by the same guy. Can't remember the name; but I've got it bookmarked at home. That will get you out of the VST conundrum.

BTW, is there a Ryzen Kernel now? (I assume that you mean a version of Darwin recompiled for AMD, right?)

Then, there's gaming... even my "I'll never use a PC" wife now maintains a Windows laptop for gaming because Mac ports of games, when they even exist, just simply suck. Take Fortnite as a recent example; not only is the macOS version roughly twice the size of the Windows version (I can't imagine why and won't speculate, I'm simply stating it as a fact), it barely runs on a brand new MacBook Pro.

Shitty WIndows-centric Coders.

And I'm not talking about low framerates at the lowest quality settings; that's what I've come to expect from a Mac when gaming is involved and I would have accepted that just as well... No, I'm talking about 1-5 second stalls. Amazingly, when it's not stalled, it has no trouble keeping up on more or less medium quality settings, but the stalls kill it.

Even with Games that are "Metal"-based?

What prompted my wife to seek a PC for gaming was, of all the simplistic crap a Mac could possibly have trouble with, The Sims. Even her 2016 5k iMac with 32GB of RAM struggles to run it at 1080p with moderate quality settings. I was in a state of utter disbelief when she told me, so I spent a couple hours working with her, tweaking the settings, insisting that she must have messed the settings somehow to make it so slow and unstable but no... Mind you, she does have a lot of mods and expansions, so my next move was to blame those. No, she hadn't gotten it running satisfactorily enough to have bothered installing them by that point. When I built my workstation, I ended up giving her the Windows laptop I had been using and, despite having half the RAM and an older-gen i7 than the iMac, she's managed to get all of her mods and expansions installed and working and it runs fast and stable at 4k.

That's just poor-ass coders. Nothing intrinsic to the Mac is causing that. Sorry.

And you bloody-well know that.

Like most people, my wife and I derive value from our systems by using them for the things we want (or need) to use them for; some of those things are just better on Windows. For my primary work tasks, the MacBook Pro w/ Touch Bar that I'm writing this post on currently (a machine I swore, when it was released, I would never buy, mind you) is more than sufficient; for the things I built that workstation for, the Mac platform isn't even an option. Perhaps if Apple sold systems with that kind of power, developers of applications that need that kind of power would bother dedicating resources to maintaining (or creating; many simply don't exist) their Mac ports?

Then there's the little matter of no warranty

No warranty? Every part I bought has a warranty, many of those are longer than the 1 year I'd get from an OEM. Sometimes it's hard to take you seriously.

That autocorrect made me giggle a bit, tho... I'm assuming you meant "consider"?

I didn't even see it, sorry!

Re:Imagine

[TheFakeTimCook]

It has to do with the number of 4k and 5k displays that can be driven

You didn't outright say it, but you sure implied it.

You used to have such good arguments for the Mac; what happened?

Getting burnt-out on Slashdot, I guess...

Re:Imagine

[BronsCon]

On a Mac, use Logic. Period. And there is now a Freeware VST-Wrapper (which also has a 32-bit to 64-bit Wrapper, too!) by the same guy. Can't remember the name; but I've got it bookmarked at home. That will get you out of the VST conundrum.

Wrapper or none, I'm not so sure a .dll VST will run on a Mac, know what I mean? Last I checked, Logic will use VST natively, but they have to be compiled for Mac.

BTW, is there a Ryzen Kernel now? (I assume that you mean a version of Darwin recompiled for AMD, right?)

I would assume so by now, obviously not with Apple's blessing, though.

Shitty WIndows-centric Coders.

They've got ports on PS4 and XBox One that run fine, so I'd hold off on that assessment.

Even with Games that are "Metal"-based?

Couldn't tell you. Got any examples of such games? Metal, though, is just the graphics layer and, as I said, the MacBook Pro had no issue keeping up with graphics; the stalling was the entire system freezing when the CPU p-state changed due to thermal throttling, so I'd guess Metal wouldn't help much.

That's just poor-ass coders. Nothing intrinsic to the Mac is causing that. Sorry.

And you bloody-well know that.

I never said it was anything intrinsic to the Mac, actually... I did, however, say the following:

Like most people, my wife and I derive value from our systems by using them for the things we want (or need) to use them for; some of those things are just better on Windows.

Whether that's Apple's fault or not, it's still true. If it's not Apple's fault, that's actually even worse for Apple, because it means Apple can't fix it. Honestly, I'd rather it was a problem with the platform.

And don't apologize for the autocorrect, it made me smile. Never apologize for making someone smile ;)

Re:Imagine

[BronsCon]

Hah. Tell me about it. There are a handful of lunatics on here who just ruin the experience lately. UnknowingFool still comes at me every chance he gets with his "multiple people have called you a liar so you must be a liar and I don't need evidence for that claim" bullshit, the the point where I straight up called him a child rapist with the intent of getting two more people to make the same claim... because, you know, then it'll be true and he'll have to willingly face prison time for it... right? By his own logic, at least. At least I did warn him it was coming.

But at least now he has a lie to point to next time he calls me a liar.... or does he? It depends, if I can get you and one other person to jump in, by his own standard it'll become truth, if it's not already.

It took over a decade and a half for someone to push me to near-libel on here. I say near-libel because, if I'm the liar he claims me to be, nobody could possibly take my words seriously and, thus, my words cannot harm his reputation; he'd have to admit I'm not a liar to prove any damages caused by my words and, in doing so, would have to admit what I said to be true.

He's just learned the dangers of consistently calling someone out as a liar, though, and hasn't said a single word to me since. So there's that, I suppose. Maybe Slashdot will start getting better now.

Re:Imagine

[david_thornley]

Depends on whether you're making money off your hobby. A friend of mine was selling electronic art (Poser, etc.), and her CPA told her to come up with some expenses or the IRS would consider it a business she'd have to pay FICA on. She bought a very nice Mac.

Re:Imagine

[Agripa]

I believe it's actually ECC RAM, which is much more expensive than the conventional desktop variety.

The price premium for ECC RAM is insignificant unless someone like Intel uses it for market segmentation which of course they do.

Re:Imagine

[Uberbah]

And I'm clearly pointing out that anyone who jumps into discussions about OEM products, to proudly announce that he ordered his own parts to save a few bucks is a wanker.

Re:Imagine

[BronsCon]

It wasn't about saving a few bucks, actually; it was about building the best system I could build for my needs. I built the system before any OEM was selling anything similar; in fact, they're still not selling anything similar.

Shall I point out that anyone who assumes people who build their own computers must be trying to save a buck is, absolutely, a wanker?

Re:Imagine

[exomondo]

You lose a significant amount of performance by connecting the GPU that way just on the bus speed alone, that's even before you get to the inability to leverage Infinity Fabric or NVLINK which are incredibly important to multi-GPU computing. The performance gap of communicating between GPUs over Thunderbolt VS PCIe is bad enough but compared to Infinity Fabric or NVLINK it's a complete non-starter.

If you've actually used the solution you suggest then you already know the performance is absolutely woeful.

$5,000?

[110010001000]

$5,000 for the starter model? That is 10% of what I make in IT in Silicon Valley per year!

Re:$5,000?

[tbuddy]

This joke never gets old.

Re:$5,000?

[cdreimer]

That's my Christmas bonus in two weeks. I'll be hitting $60K for the year.

Re:$5,000?

[110010001000]

I am not Christian so I guess I don't get a Christmas bonus. In government IT we don't call them "Christmas" bonuses. It is culturally insensitive.

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your first mistake was working in government. Your second mistake was working in IT. And your third mistake was ever posting on this thread.

Re:$5,000?

[110010001000]

I like working in government IT. We keep the terrorists from taking away our freedoms.

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's right. Thanksgiving is known as Indigenous People Day or Turkey Day. Christmas is known as Chinese (food) Day or Holiday Tree Day. New Year is still New Year.

Re:$5,000?

[kamapuaa]

And his forth mistake was not being Christian, and being eternally damned in the afterlife.

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

You did read the link that you posted? Support staff don't make six-figure salaries.

The second thing to note is that most of the support staff at these companies aren't actually employed by the companies they work for, but are subcontractors. So the salaries of cafeteria workers, janitors and security guards at these companies aren't included in these figures. Their salaries, by all accounts, are much lower.

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

What's a "forth" mistake?

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

A typo?

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

There you are spamming amazon affiliate links with yet another fake account, you revenue stream hogging disgusting fat sexist tube of lard, Christopher Dale Reimer!

You can be sure I will be watching this fake account too. I know this is you because you told me you were working on your freepass 11 file server and you are so dumb that you can't even masquerade yourself properly.

Now, I told you I was out of meds last week and you didn't even care to contact me you lazy fucker.

How many times do I have to express the emergency of the situation??????

The python click script you wrote for my pheromone revenue stream web site suddenly stopped to work!!!!!!

You fucking incompetent python script writer!!!

When it works, I get 4000+ clicks a day on my pheromone revenue stream web site but only 5 or 6 without it!!!!

Now, it seems like you dont care and that you have abandoned me you heartless fucking pig!

Bonus:
Here is a story that creimer told me when convincing me what a hard life he had:

The tree was him and the tree knot was his butt hole!

So, his uncle packed his fat ass with lard and with his cock! Not that it makes much of a difference but anyway, there it is!

Signed:
The girl that used to love you and now hates you, burn in hell where you belong you sexist pig!

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Shut the fuck up dummy!

CREIMER' SUBMISSIONS UPDATE:
Note also that creimer is trying to regain karma by getting his submissions published as articles on /. so make sure to go to:
https://slashdot.org/~cdreimer
https://slashdot.org/~Anonymou...
https://slashdot.org/~FatCashe...
https://slashdot.org/~ILoveFat...
https://slashdot.org/~IHateFat...
https://slashdot.org/~IAteFatC...
https://slashdot.org/~ITapeFat...
https://slashdot.org/~IApeFatC...
https://slashdot.org/~IPrayFat...
and mod down his submissions as well. The great thing is that you don't even need mod points to mod down a submission, just click on the "minus" icon!

Yes, believe it or not, creimer owns all the above sock puppet accounts. It is a mystery why Slashdot management tolerates it!

creimer wrote:

I don't bother with mod points. I'm doing something much more sinister. It took ten story submissions ? I'll have to double check the number ? to move cdreimer's karma from neutral to excellent without ever being exposed to the capricious mods. Mmmmmwwwwahahahahahahaha!

https://slashdot.org/comments....

Danger, Will Robinson, Danger! Creimy is posting more than 2 posts a day. Hurry! mod down otherwise /. will go to hell again!

Note: you can mod down even if already at -1 to lower karma and to prevent lost /. users to accidentally mod up.

creimer wrote:

All you need to do is find a website with a permissive TOS, say, Slashdot, create a Python script to scrape your own comments, sprinkle Amazon affiliate links in various posts, and then re-post past links whenever possible. Won't be long before you start making "coffee money" each month.

https://slashdot.org/comments....

C.D. Reimer is a renowned Slashdot collaborator, as he puts it himself; "Because of the quality of my posts and my article submissions, I'm a highly rated commentator and moderator."

But does anybody ever wondered what "C.D." stands for? Well, it stands for Creimy Dumpty of course!

Creimy Dumpty sat on the wall,
Creimy Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses
And all the king's men
Couldn't put Creimy Dumpty
Together again.

Creimy's siblings video and theme song, very realistic, especially the pants, just like Creimy's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

With "Vice President Pence Vowing US Astronauts Will Return To the Moon", we are sure they will need miracle workers up there, here is what it would look like. Note that Creimy takes care of bringing a lot of food to the moon as depicted below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Creimy's real pictures:
Before the sex change:
https://ibb.co/cc7Ddw
After the sex change:
https://ibb.co/gVad65

Creimy's "enterprise-level" chair, he talks about it all the time on slashdot:
http://www.keynamics.com/image...

Creimy's head, while his supervisor was talking to him, not with him, since it is impossible to do with Creimy:
http://ibb.co/mRVSaG

Creimy acting in educational

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

And what does that have to do with the average salary, Chris?

How come every AC on Slashdot is named Chris?

Also from the link I posted (that you stopped reading as soon as it became uncomfortable);

You mean the text that I included in my quote?

Their salaries, by all accounts, are much lower.

Correct. IT support staff also gets paid less than IT engineers. Creimer is support staff. He gets paid less. Without people like him, engineers can't get their work done. You're not going to pay an engineer to clean out IT closets.

Re:$5,000?

[fyngyrz]

What's a "forth" mistake?

Two pops and one push. Or two pushes and one pop.

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

So how come this guy knows so much about you?

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Creimer lives in the imaginary world of mangas. That's why he thought that Ayako was more common than Yayako.
---
Silvia Bunge
Psychology Department
University of California, Berkeley

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's true enough!

Creimer came in my cubicle the other day around 1:30 PM to fix my Ethernet connectivity. He had to crawl under my desk to reach the cable and oh my god! While crawling under the desk, he released an unbelievable amount of gas and the whole floor had to be evacuated for the rest of the day.

An HAZMAT team was requested to approve the condition before we could go in again the next day and entrance was delayed until 10:45 AM.

3 workers with chronical respiratory problems had to go to the hospital and 1 is still in critical state.

Update:
This is NOT a fart joke!
https://slashdot.org/comments....
The gas seemed to come out of his ears. My guess is that gas accumulates in his large empty head:
http://ibb.co/mRVSaG

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Learning the FORTH programming language.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forth_(programming_language)

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Chris' case is getting worse, he spends all day replying to himself as AC on /.

The tests we ran on Chris have shown that Chris has the intelligence of an ameba:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

So, technically, he is able to conceive some kind of agenda but it will be silly or impossible to follow on a human scale.

For example, Chris had an agenda to post anything he felt like on Slashdot which did not work well because it was based on his false beliefs that he had an infinite number of karma points as he wrote here several times.

Several people here explained to Chris that karma maxed out at some level like 50 or so but Chris kept on insisting that his python script had confirmed that he had millions of karma points!

Oh well, as I wrote before: "It isn't Chris' fault if he is the way he is. We do the best we can do with him and he is partially integrated into society. We try to cure his abnormal need for attention but he is kind of stubborn and won't listen to anybody."

For the valuable /. users that might already have read the following, please note that there is an important update.

IMPORTANT UPDATE:
Special Education for the Santa Clara County Office of Education has invested money to buy Chris a new chair:
http://www.keynamics.com/image...

Information about Christopher Dale Reimer and autistic people:

Autistic people have obsessions about things normal people don't care. For example, one of our autistic patient went haywire when he realized that there was a penny missing in his pocket change.

To calm him down, one of our educator pretended to have found it on the floor and gave a penny to him.

The autistic patient condition went even worse because he realized it wasn't the same penny!

Chris has an obsession with budgeting every penny. He doesn't understand that most people do not budget to the penny and have a flexible amount they allow for miscellaneous items.

I am Nancy Guerrero and I am Director of Special Education for the Santa Clara County Office of Education. We use Chris' (a.k.a. creimer,cdreimer) picture in our document because he is the hardest case we have ever had to handle:
http://www.sccoe.org/depts/stu...

Our artists were inspired by the low carb diet that Christopher follows scrupulously for the small lunch box and by the picture linked below for the rest. I am sure that you will notice the similarities such as the bump on the side of his chest and more:
https://ibb.co/gVad65

Please be easy on Christopher although, I am aware that some of our staff handling Chris post joke comments here and obvoiusly, the Santa Clara County Office of Education disapprove that behavior vehemently:
http://ibb.co/mRVSaG

But it isn't Chris' fault if he is the way he is. We do the best we can do with him and he is partially integrated into society. We try to cure his abnormal need for attention but he is kind of stubborn and won't listen to anybody.

Thank You dear users,
---
Nancy Guerrero
Director
Special Education
Santa Clara County Office of Education

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Should have been a cop instead. Better starting salary, good benefits including pension, no college degree needed, and a union that will protect you even if you happen to engage in criminal activity or kill a few people. Even if you get fired, the union guarantees arbitration, which means there is a likely chance of being rehired.

You picked the wrong government job.

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Congratulations! May I suggest you save the money in an Roth IRA, perhaps in an index fund?

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's actually pretty difficult to become a policeman. They don't require a good education, but there's pretty extensive screenings of personality, and a physical test that is non-trivial. Only 4% of candidates get accepted into police academy. I had a co-worker who went to a good college, was a friendly person, spoke fluent Spanish as a second language (community is fairly Hispanic), had been a bit of a track star in college, and she still wasn't accepted.

Re:$5,000?

[cayenne8]

I like working in government IT. We keep the terrorists from taking away our freedoms.

You might consider moving into Federal Govt. IT contracting...it can be very profitable.

Re:$5,000?

[TheFakeTimCook]

I like working in government IT. We keep the terrorists from taking away our freedoms.

Instead, nowadays, we just have your Overlords to do that...

Re:$5,000?

[TheFakeTimCook]

dup swap pop pop .

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

CREIMIER SAID:

All you need to do is find a website with a permissive TOS, say, Slashdot, create a Python script to scrape your own comments, sprinkle Amazon affiliate links in various posts, and then re-post past links whenever possible. Won't be long before you start making "coffee money" each month.

https://slashdot.org/comments....

Shitposting, Amazon affiliate spam, being fat, and being a general nuisance.

CREIMER SAID:
Only on Slashdot.

https://slashdot.org/comments....

So why hasn't managed to ban this intentionally disruptive user? According to him his "trolls" can't help themselves.. he is the one in control willingly and maliciously creating disruptions. Reasons that slashdot has stated they will ban accounts at their discretion.

Why isn't creimer banned? He degrades the slashdot experience for everyone and attempts to monetize these efforts. This is effectively stealing from Dice.

Just the other day creimer attempted to dox a user by posting her name and ip address. How many chances should he be given?

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

HEY CREIMER!

How can /. management tolerate a fool like you which openly admits he has zillions of sock puppet accounts?

I am sure you are going to enjoy that one; Could you be the secret owner of /.?

Anyway, here is a partial list of sock puppets accounts creimer owns. Doesn't it have a negative potential with regards to the moderation system? If you are aware of more sock puppets accounts, just reply to this post please.

https://slashdot.org/~Anonymou...
https://slashdot.org/~FatCashe...
https://slashdot.org/~ILoveFat...
https://slashdot.org/~IHateFat...
https://slashdot.org/~IAteFatC...
https://slashdot.org/~ITapeFat...
https://slashdot.org/~IApeFatC...
https://slashdot.org/~IPrayFat...

Buzz off creimer!

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks Nancy,

Your posts are always enlightening and right on topic! Keep up the good work over there at Special Education!

I have noted that Chris uses child psychology to convince his so called trolls to give up by pretending they just give him free publicity. That's adoring! ;-)

Anyway Chris would have a hard time to learn anything above child level matters, including psychology.

https://childdevelopmentinfo.c...

---
Silvia Bunge
Psychology Department
University of California, Berkeley

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Here are some Creimer's posts from his account that was blocked and renamed by Slashdot management:

"Nah... I just do it to piss off my trolls and make coffee money off of them."
https://slashdot.org/comments....

"Which doesn't violate the Slashdot TOS. If you got a problem with that, take it up with management."
https://slashdot.org/comments....

This year I've posted ~4,000 comments.
https://slashdot.org/comments....

We have different priorities. You want to climb the corporate ladder. I want to own the corporate ladder.
https://slashdot.org/comments....

My employers don't care about what my Slashdot trolls think. Now go off and lick your balls somewhere else.
https://slashdot.org/comments....

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know support engineers who make 90k but regardless support pays less.
Anyhow it usually pays less. Maybe this has something to do with why people tell you to add a hot skill/cert to your resume. But no you want to find old lotto tickets, grift youtube for pennies, and get certs nobody likes and everyone has.

I'm going to leave you alone now. You've stopped spamming and karma whoring. I'll be back if you start doing that shit again though.

Re:$5,000?

[Known Nutter]

You two are idiots. That's a fake "Creimer" account.

Pay attention.

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Fatcashewsloveme, you mean? No it isn't. The guy is capable of writing a paragraph with a point and with no grammar mistakes.

Re:$5,000?

[FatCashewsSlapMe]

Not to the neighbors' goats and kids that you fuck in the gutter. Disgusting, cousin!

Re:$5,000?

[Reaperducer]

Assuming you're posting from the U.S., get over it. Christmas is a holiday recognized by the federal government. If you choose not to enjoy it, that's your business. But it's not culturally insensitive. You're just culturally intolerant/oversensitive.

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hilarious, Chris. Bringing up child fucking out of nowhere. Remember when somebody said you were creepy, so you said he molested his own children?

I can't help but notice that you have a repeated pattern of talking about child molestation. You discuss child marriage with your co-workers and on a technology forum. You like saying "marrying children is as American as apple pie" and apparently research the topic. You have loli-anime in your topic.

Just sayin'.

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Goat fuckers and Pedobears. What has Slashdot come to?

Re:$5,000?

[FatCashewsSlapMe]

Hilarious, Chris.

I'm not Chris. I'm an AC. Just. Like. You. Except for the goat and kid fucking.

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm going to leave you alone now. You've stopped spamming and karma whoring. I'll be back if you start doing that shit again though.

That's what you said four months ago. For four months the abuse against creimer continued unabated. Are you planning to escalate this shit into the New Year?

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, Chris. There's no gray zone with you, huh? Right away into the repulsive stuff. You're too broken to see that, I guess.

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, every AC is so concerned about creimer! For four months, you vomited your presence on Slashdot like a stranger with bad breath talking too close to us.

Are you planning to continue your valueless posts and spamming into 2018?

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

blablabla

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Underpaid virgins and autistic stalkers.

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Creimer there is more than one guy here who trolls you. I said I would stop once but then you drew me back in when I saw you making low effort submissions to boost your karma. Slashdot's moderation system was designed in a time when the volume of moderators and posts meant the system could steamroll over a nuisance like you even if you made a bunch of sockpuppets to try and spam the place up.

Given your unusual obsessiveness the site simply has no other way to deal with you than draw negative attention to your posts and hurt your feelings in addition to modding you down. Moderation simply can't keep up with you.
You have a pile of delusions that you use to shelter your ego from the fact that nobody likes you here. Sure maybe your trolls are wasting their mod points on you but if people disagreed with those who mod you down eventually the m2 system would deprive them of moderation.

People are bored of trolling you but if you're left unchecked you will eventually ruin the site by attracting copycat spammers and driving away our good posters who want to have quality stories free from made up shit that never happened. You know that you could work on making 1 or 2 extremely good posts in response to stories and comments where you have some special information to contribute.

Consider if you will actually make someone laugh, are you trying not to laugh when you post it? Maybe that's a good post. Do you think you're saying something TRUE that other people might repeat in a later conversation?
That's probably a good post then. If not then it is a shitty post.

I think you're bored and lonely, that's when I shitpost.

So that's it, no spamming, no sockpuppets, consider this a sort of unofficial community ToS. This is what you have to do to not piss people off on slashdot.

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

You have loli-anime in your topic.

Where did he do that? Where is this?

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, I have (slightly) better things to do with my time than dig through your blogs to find the picture you posted of the loli-anime you keep next to your bed.

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

What makes you think that creimer is reading your self-righteous bullshit?

Re: $5,000?

[Brockmire]

Do you mean 40%? I couldn't find any official stats, just forum posts where they'd say how many were hired on from their class and it was closer to 50%. The reason your friend wasn't accepted without you specifying the reason is suspect.

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because you're as predictable as the sunrise, Chris? You're mentally damaged, and we know exactly when and where you post. BTW, you won't mind if I call you towards the end of the week to wish you a Merry Christmas?

Re:$5,000?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody hates christmas that's a meme.
It's even celebrated in countries with no christians.

Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

$5K and only an 8 core Xeon and32 GB of RAM?

Still under-powered and overpriced. I wonder how many ports will be eliminated as well.

Re:Overpriced

[Hawks]

According to Apple's web site the iMac pro has:
4xThunderbolt 3(USB-C), suppotring 2 additional 5K kmonitors
1X10Gb ethernet (Nbase-T 1,2.5,5,10Gb support)
4XUSB 3
SDXC card slot
and a mini-headphone jack

Re:Overpriced

[tbuddy]

It has 8 USB ports so I kind of look at it as $625 per port. My Mac Pro was $4800 and only has 4 USB ports, so I'd say this is a significantly better value than what I have. I'll be waiting outside the Apple Store on Thursday to pick one up.

Re:Overpriced

[ctilsie242]

At least you get a free monitor with it.

Re:Overpriced

[DontBeAMoran]

No FireWire 400.

Lame.

Re:Overpriced

[DontBeAMoran]

Dude, the Mac mini is only $499 and also has four USB ports. At only $125 per port, it's a much better value!

Re:Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it?

Xeon W-2145 - $1113
Cheapest LGA-2066 board available with 10Gb ethernet - $650
32GB DDR4 - $400
1TB 3.2GB/s PCIe SSD - $500
Radeon Vega 56 - $600
5k 27" monitor - $1300
PSU, WiFi + Bluetooth card, wireless keyboard, wireless mouse, thunderbolt card, CPU cooler, case - ~$400

Total - $4963

Seems like it's pretty much in line with how much it would cost to build the same system yourself.

Re:Overpriced

[DontBeAMoran]

Me: "free"
Michael Eisner: Thank you DontBeAMoran, that was the joke.

Re:Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

Very few people have any use for a system like this though, particularly if it's not running Windows.

Re:Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

So?

That doesn't mean it's not a system that's worth the cash if you do need it. If you need to compile a few hundred C++ files regularly, this machine looks like exactly the kind of beast you need.

Re: Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop it with your sensible and honest comments. You are ruining the basement dwellers group mastubatory echo chamber.

Re:Overpriced

[ColdWetDog]

No SCSI. Hell, I'll bet it doesn't even have a parallel port

Wikipedia article here for those not old enough to remember this bit of communication history.

Re: Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is why very few machines cost 5k... your not making yourself look any less of an idiot

Re:Overpriced

[LordKronos]

and a mini-headphone jack

They didn't eliminate it? What a bunch of cowards.

Re:Overpriced

[Mikkeles]

"...and a mini-headphone jack"

I wonder if it can be moved to an iPhone.

Re:Overpriced

[tbuddy]

Mac Mini comes with white Apple stickers while the Pro line of desktops come with black Apple stickers. I'm not putting poor people stickers on my 1998 Ford Focus.

Re:Overpriced

[DontBeAMoran]

Ah yes, the parallel port. The port I used to connect almost anything except a printer.

Remember LPT 8-bit DAC?
Remember LPT SNES gamepad?
I 'member!

Re:Overpriced

[dhaen]

Very few people have any use for a system like this though, particularly if it's not running Windows.

I fail to see what "running Windows" has to do with the argument. It's obviously aimed at a market point that you have no knowledge of. Multiple 5K displays are most likely of use to people in moving image processing, this relatively big data needs this spec as an absolute minimum nowadays.

I doubt very many will be bought for gaming.

Re:Overpriced

[MightyYar]

For me it's not the shame of the white stickers, but the fact that my Pontiac is white, and so the sticker won't show up very well.

Re:Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

Cheapest LGA-2066 board available with 10Gb ethernet - $650

Hold on, that's not valid justification. You can get non-xeon motherboards with 10g ethernet for under $300. You can get xeon motherboards plus a 10g add in card for under $300. The only reason it's so expensive for it onboard is because hardly anyone makes it because hardly anyone needs it. But that doesn't matter in apples case. They don't use off the shelf parts from other manufacturers. They custom make all their shit, and if they are going to custom make it anyway, they can combine the 2 just as easily (which they did). Thus I'll only give them credit for $300, not $650.

Re: Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

lol clutching at straws desperation

Why not also price up 2 much cheaper 4 core CPUâ(TM)s and glue them together? Thatâ(TM)s still 8 cored but way cheaper...

Idiot

Re:Overpriced

[torkus]

No courage went into building this machine I see. I'll have to pass then!

Re:Overpriced

[605dave]

Well I guess I don't need my Firewire 400 to 800 adaptor anymore.

Re: Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

because apple does not make their own processors. They do custom make the motherboard. They don't just get arbitrary credit for the things they decide to glue together on their own. Otherwise you can never compare anything. I mean seriously....why did you even put together that list of prices? That list is just a bunch of individual components. That $1300 monitor isn't integrated into the computer, it's separate. There is only 1 computer with that exact set of specifications....the iMac Pro. So why did you even bother puttinig together that list of prices instead of just saying "the iMac Pro not overpriced at $4999....if you wanted those same specifications, you'd have to buy an iMac Pro for $4999". Clearly you were accepting some form of equivalent specs, so why does the NIC have to be on the motherboard to be equivalent? Why did you accept the wifi/bluetooth/thunderbolt being on a separate card but not the NIC? It seems you are just being arbitrary about it. Idiot.

Re: Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

My Google Pixel can run Photoshop on a 5k screen and it cost less and is infinitely more portable.

Re: Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

My tablet can output 4K over hdmi and run photoshop and itâ(TM)s way cheaper and more portable than your Chromebook...

You really should learn to think before you post, I know this is slashdot but even by that standard your comparison was downs syndrome level

Re:Overpriced

[ctilsie242]

This makes a decent dev machine. Especially if one is writing code that uses Vagrant and is tested on multiple VMs (app servers, a DB server, etc.) Something like this can handle the vagrant on/off/destroy cycles with ease, especially if one is prototyping a more complex configuration (DB servers, load balancer, app servers, etc.) If the Vagrant environment tanks, who cares... just drop the VMs and rebuild.

Even if someone doesn't use that much active VM work, having multiple VMs on the desktop is useful for a business, just for isolation reasons. For example, keeping QuickBooks in its own world to ensure that ransomware on the web browsing VM or even the host has a much less chance of affecting the critical business documents. Until OS makers start offering QubesOS like functionality, this is a good way to maintain security without too much time wasted.

Re:Overpriced

[Paradise Pete]

Very few people have any use for a system like this though

Wow, that was a sudden relocation of the goalposts.

Re: Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not just buy an 8 core i7 with 16 threads at the same frequency for half the price? If you don't get xeon, you can get a 12 core processor in the i9 series for the same price with a clock speed 400 MHz faster. Yes, the xeon 8 core costs that much. But you're a fool if you buy one. The same goes for the 5K monitor. I've got a 4K 27 inch curved monitor that again cost half the price of the 5K monitor they're offering. The pixels on the damn thing are so small that I have to get my eye about 2 inches away from the display before I can kind of start to see them. The whole argument about it being overpriced (at least in this case) isn't that the components don't cost that much, it's that you can get identical performance if you buy different and much cheaper parts. I have a $3K workstation I work on, it has identical performance to this thing, it just uses desktop class parts instead of server class parts. The difference between the two? The warranty.

Re: Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

Please stop lying. Maybe you are not lying and just dont have a clue what you are talking about.

Go price up a HP Z8xx Workstation with a Xeon 2145W, 32GB ECC, 4TB NVMe SSD, 27" 5K monitor, 3 additional USB-C port card add in, wifi-bt addon, wireless kb & mouse then come back and tell me what it costs. Ill give you a clue, its more than $4999.

The reason you think its expensive is because you dont understand either the hardware thats in it or the intended use case. Apple will sell a lot of these to people who understand what they are and will benefit from the extra performance. You are welcome to keep crying in ignorance.

Re: Overpriced

[smooth wombat]

your not making yourself look any less of an idiot

Says the person who either doesn't know how to spell, or can't use proper grammar.

Re: Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

but knows about the subject matter at hand a lot more than gp. hows your german language skills btw?

if all you can resort to is ad hominem personal attacks then it shows just how pathetic your argument is doesnt it?

Re:Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

The only reason it's so expensive for it onboard is because hardly anyone makes it because hardly anyone needs it.

A 10Gb network port is common in the graphics and video world, which is the target audience for this machine. I work in the CGI field and we use a 10Gb network because our assets are on network storage. We run two wired networks in the office, 10Gb for storage and 1Gb for everything else.

These will go against the HP Z and Dell Precision workstations. But I don't see them offering the same value as HP and Dell; still no modular design. Pros want to pick the GPU solution and most of the time it is Nvidia. Also, I see thermal issues in the same manner as the trash can Mac Pro, which had to throttle down because it just could not cool the CPU and GPU under high workload. And finally, only 128GB maximum memory and a single SSD. While this is not a big limitation, the competition goes much higher. My work machine has 256GB memory and a dual SSD RAID1.

Not that my company would go back to Mac since we converted to Windows years ago when the Mac Pro stagnated (before the trash can) and Apple didn't communicate their road map. That is the problem with the company, lack of communication. They have a cone of silence mentality. Also, lots of little things didn't help such as killing professional software, stagnating or broken management tools, and lack of onsite support.

Re: Overpriced

[samwichse]

Heck, for that price, I can get a velocitymicro system with dual 16-core Epyc processors, 32gb ram, and onboard 10gigE.

Got me thinking... maybe it's time to replace my dual 8-core Xeon and dual 16-core Opteron systems.

Re: Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

Back in that era, a computer without a printer attached to it was a fancy light bulb driver.

Re: Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

My Black Ford Ranger ["you can get it in any color, so long as it's black!"] means I get to save a ton of money!

Re:Overpriced

[ilsaloving]

WTF, how am I supposed to connect my Zip drive then?

Re:Overpriced

[ilsaloving]

IIRC the joystick connected to a 15-pin game port/midi port. But yes, I had one of those logitech gamepads. It was a good pad.

Re:Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

The only reason it's so expensive for it onboard is because hardly anyone makes it because hardly anyone needs it.

A 10Gb network port is common in the graphics and video world, which is the target audience for this machine.

And, compared to the entire computer parts customer base, the people in the graphics and video world are indeed hardly anyone. So I'm not sure what your point is. I didn't say nobody needed it. I said hardly anyone needed it, which is why you see very little competition in that market. Since there are few options, those few options naturally become more expensive.

But you sort of missed the point, which was "what do these parts reasonably cost?" $650 is not a reasonable approximation of what it costs to have both a xeon motherboard and 10gb NIC. The fact they are integrated makes no difference to what the reasonable cost is. If you can make a motherboard and a 10g NIC separately for $300 combined, then there's no reason they can't be made together for $300. Apple is already custom making their motherboards, so they can custom make it with that combination if that's the spec they chose.

Re: Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

If you hacked a digital game pad like the NES controller in, youâ(TM)d use the parallel port as it was 8-bit digital. The 15 pin game port had button input, but the pins were hogged by analog which the NES controller didnâ(TM)t need. Also, you had to poll the analog port where the parallel port could generate interrupts.

Re: Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

C/C++? What year is this?

I used to compile 3.2 million lines of code constantly and it never took more than a minute or two on a Celeron 500Mhz.

1) fix your dependencies
2) fix your damn precompiled headers
3) quit making static libraries
4) enable background compiling
5) stop using boost

Even now, I work on hundreds of files in other languages every day and no matter what I do, compiling never takes more than a few seconds with debugging symbols.

You donâ(TM)t need a new computer. You need to learn C++

Re: Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

Hello, AC Using Sarcasm. I'd like you to meet Other AC Using Sarcasm. Now kiss.

Re: Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps you'd like to go back and reread the thread. I never said anything about the processor or the ram or the other stuff. I neither know nor care what the current value of many of those things is. My point specifically addressed $650 motherboard. I said if you want to compare value, that wasn't a valid basis of comparison. I've lied about nothing. If anything, you are the one lying by trying to claim that $650 is a legitimate value to place on what it costs them to include a xeon motherboard and 10gb ethernet. I'll let other people speak to whether your other figures are justified or not. That one I saw and knew it wasn't justified so I called you out on it.

I pointed out a specific error in your analysis, you called me an idiot for it, I point out that by your criteria you are an idiot too because you did the exact same thing, and then you ignore that and just reply with an idiotic "well I'd like to see you do better" sort of reply. Why not just be a grown up and say "your right...we should use $300 as a more accurate cost for those components". If you think the revised part total is still valid justification that they aren't overcharging, then great. Make that argument, but make it based on an accurate basis of cost, not an inflated one.

Re:Overpriced

[gtall]

added MS crapware, no thanks. Linux might work, except my time is worth more than pfutzing with Linux...no time to delve into that world. Get this, os x costs money to develop.

Re:Overpriced

[Thanatiel]

My left thumb remembers.

Re:Overpriced

[rcharbon]

You can AirPlay your music from your phone to your headphone-enabled iMac Pro. Win!

Re:Overpriced

[Megane]

Thunderbolt 3 USB C port -> Thunderbolt classic adapter -> Firewire 800 adapter -> Firewire 800/400 cable, and if you're really l33t, there is such a thing as a Firewire 400 to SCSI adapter. I have one somewhere, but it got misplaced in a move. Don't forget the SCSI terminator!

Re:Overpriced

[Joe_Dragon]

just get an TB to pci-e cage and a pci-e scsi card

Re: Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

FWIW, you can get a dual nic 10gb board with a xeon and cooling already mounted for under $500 from Amazon. D1545 as I recall. For the 4core 8thread variety. The octo is about $900.

  iPologists remind me of claims like when they said that Bluetooth 2.0 or whatever was worth $200 more than the BT in dells, and similar "must use $199 Apple version of X" instead of the $10 options available.

Re:Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it?

Xeon W-2145 - $1113
Cheapest LGA-2066 board available with 10Gb ethernet - $650
32GB DDR4 - $400
1TB 3.2GB/s PCIe SSD - $500
Radeon Vega 56 - $600
5k 27" monitor - $1300
PSU, WiFi + Bluetooth card, wireless keyboard, wireless mouse, thunderbolt card, CPU cooler, case - ~$400

Total - $4963

Seems like it's pretty much in line with how much it would cost to build the same system yourself.

Yep, all that just to run JavaScript.

Re:Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

It is being targeted for a specific market segment, which you fail to understand. Therefore, the customer use case for 10Gb is the majority.

Hahahahaha

[DogDude]

I pay less for mission-critical servers. Significantly less. And our workstations cost 1/20th of what these cost. I can't imagine what these things do that justify that price tag.

Re:Hahahahaha

[Sarten-X]

Legally run OS X.

For some folks, that's justification.

Re:Hahahahaha

[Just Some Guy]

If a workstation costs less than $250, it ain’t a workstation in the computing sense.

Re: Hahahahaha

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't really know what a workstation is do you?

Re:Hahahahaha

[sproketboy]

Sucker.

Re:Hahahahaha

[fred6666]

don't confuse the law and Apple EULA

Re: Hahahahaha

[DontBeAMoran]

It's just a fancy name for "work bench", a.k.a. the place where you put your 3D printer and Arduino projects.

Re:Hahahahaha

[Anonymous Coward]

He wasn't. He was "confusing" copyright law with the law... which was an entirely valid thing to do - copyright law *is* (part of) the law.

The EULA doesn't have to be anything to do with the law, it's just the contract that you agree to in order to in order to not violate copyright law.

Re: Hahahahaha

[Just Some Guy]

Here, let me help:

A workstation is a special computer designed for technical or scientific applications.

It's fun to call our Chromebooks a "workstation", but traditionally that's not remotely what it means.

Re:Hahahahaha

[Baron_Yam]

> I can't imagine what these things do that justify that price tag

Well... I'm just going to throw out the suggestion that Apple has a really, really strong brand loyalty factor going for it, and there's going to be an Apple logo on these things...

Re:Hahahahaha

[Anonymous Coward]

Since Apple won't sell you a license, buy the license from someone who melted their mac or doesn't use an apple OS on it.

Re:Hahahahaha

[Anonymous Coward]

There's no one on the planet who has a license to sell you. All of the licenses out there are licenses to copy it onto Apple hardware only.

Re:Hahahahaha

[Anonymous Coward]

Professional video

Re:Hahahahaha

[Anonymous Coward]

[...] it's just the contract that you agree to in order to in order to not violate copyright law. [...]

Illegal eula clauses are invalid.

Re: Hahahahaha

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes they are. Luckily for apple their Eula is legal and has been tested in court.

Keep crying though, it is funny

Re:Hahahahaha

[pastafazou]

A Dell Precision 5720 All-in-one workstation costs $3900, has a Xeon E3-1245, a 4K 27" display, and Radeon Pro WX 7100 graphics. The video upgrade alone on the iMac is $500. Factor in the better processor and display, and they're very comparable price wise. The iMac Pro also has an A10 coprocessor. I don't think the iMac is overpriced at all, considering what you're getting. Obviously your "mission-critical" servers aren't shipping with a 5K display or a $1000 video card, and probably don't have a 1TB SSD drive either. BTW, I call BS on your 1/20th cost, unless you're buying old off-lease servers.

Re:Hahahahaha

[Moridineas]

And our workstations cost 1/20th of what these cost.

1/20 of $4,999. So your workstations cost $250? That's nice.

Re: Hahahahaha

[Kjella]

It's fun to call our Chromebooks a "workstation", but traditionally that's not remotely what it means.

Yeah, traditionally we'd call that kind of computing power a "supercomputer". Unless it has some special hardware for those "technical and scientific applications" like one of those Titan V compute cards I find there's really nothing that makes it a workstation anymore, it's just a high performance general purpose computer. Unless you count ECC RAM as the "workstation" feature...

Re:Hahahahaha

[Anonymous Coward]

You can log in as root; without a password!

Re:Hahahahaha

[Paradise Pete]

And our workstations cost 1/20th of what these cost.

You workstations cost $250 with a monitor? What kind of work, typing?

Re: Hahahahaha

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a really fucking expensive dongle. And unlike their other dongles, it doesn't come "free in the box."

Re:Hahahahaha

[Uberbah]

If all it takes is marketing for a logo and to establish brand loyalty, why haven't companies with superior products done the same and driven Apple out of business?

How many ports do you really need?

[Anonymous Coward]

A single 'cloud' port should suffice.

I still think it's a dumb idea

[DontBeAMoran]

Xeon CPUs and powerful GPUs inside a pointlessly thin computer with a built-in display? What for? Who the fuck asked for this?

Either the internal heat will kill components prematurely or the thing will make even more jet noise than an old PowerPC G4 tower.

Re:I still think it's a dumb idea

[ColdWetDog]

Those of us who look longingly and our cheese grater stuffed in a box somewhere and wish, really wish, Apple could, you know, improve on the concept of a high end, expandable Mac instead of something that looks like Jony Ive's idea of an ashtray.

Well, we didn't exactly ask for that. But I suppose it will be all we get.

Re:I still think it's a dumb idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but will it be simply the coolest computer ever like the G4 cube?

Re:I still think it's a dumb idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody asked for it. It has an Apple logo on it, so people will buy it because Apple.

Re: I still think it's a dumb idea

[Anonymous Coward]

G5 tower..,

Re:I still think it's a dumb idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody in the professional space asked for this. Pros wanted an updated cheese grater and Apple gave us a trash can. Now it will take them 2 years to come out with a modular Mac Pro. How can a company be this slow when HP and Dell come out with updated workstations every 6 months? To fill the void, they re-worked their iMac with enterprise parts. Same thermal problems as the trash can. They have no clue what their customers want.

I am reminded of Jobs at the 1997 WWDC after returning to Apple. He said you got to start with the customer experience and work backward to the technology, you cannot start with the technology and figure out how to sell it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF-tKLISfPE

Re:I still think it's a dumb idea

[R3d M3rcury]

Dare I say it, I think Apple has probably considered these things and have done appropriate things to ameliorate the issues you've raised with the iMac Pro.

My concern is similar to the Trashcan Mac: Yup, it's absolute gorgeous. But what happens in two years when Intel puts out a new line of Xeon CPUs that run a little hotter.

I mean, I'm probably not spending $4999 for it now. But I might be in the market in a couple of years. When I buy a "Pro" machine and I fork over that kind of money, I expect to be getting the latest and greatest. I don't expect to be buying 2-3 year old technology because Apple made the machine spectacularly attractive, yet ran it so close to the limits that they'd have to completely redesign everything in order to make it work with the latest chips.

I appreciate the iMac Pro. But I'll wait and see what happens with the next Xeon CPU upgrade and how quickly Apple can use those before I consider getting one.

Re:I still think it's a dumb idea

[cyn1c77]

Xeon CPUs and powerful GPUs inside a pointlessly thin computer with a built-in display? What for? Who the fuck asked for this?

Either the internal heat will kill components prematurely or the thing will make even more jet noise than an old PowerPC G4 tower.

They are redesigning the Mac Pro to be modular again. They want to cash in on their desperate customers with the iMac Pro before they release it though!

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Good night

[Anonymous Coward]

That's what, 5x what it would cost to put those parts into a regular pc case?

I never minded paying some extra for nice machines but that's laughable. 2x maybe for a real nice, elegant, powerful and well made all in one... For some reason I doubt these machines will be all of that. Had macs since 1984, seriously, and don't think that's going to carry on much longer. iApple sux.

Re:Good night

[Anonymous Coward]

No, the CPU (Xeon W-2145) alone is more expensive than your 1/5th estimate for building it yourself.

Here's a rough sketch of what you'd need to buy to match this system:
Xeon W-2145 - $1113
Cheapest LGA-2066 board available with 10Gb ethernet - $650
32GB DDR4 - $400
1TB 3.2GB/s PCIe SSD - $500
Radeon Vega 56 - $600
5k 27" monitor - $1300
PSU, WiFi + Bluetooth card, wireless keyboard, wireless mouse, thunderbolt card, CPU cooler, case - ~$400

Total - $4963

Re:Good night

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, putting those parts into a case should be free, if you do it yourself.

The PARTS, however, will run you close to what Apple is selling this for, as others have posted elsewhere.

But nice try.

Re:Good night

[b0s0z0ku]

But it will be expandable/upgradeable and thus a better "Pro" machine than the Mac "Pro."

Re:Good night

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, a few of those components are artificially inflated because they are newly released and Apple is one of the few OEMs pulling them in. But yeah, it is no where close to a 1/5. If you were to take your time sourcing the items over 2-3 months I think you'd end up at about $3k....but you'd be at $3k with the ability to upgrade everything in the system.

Re:Good night

[Anonymous Coward]

See, the thing is you don't have to buy the same components that Apple did, you can choose better components instead. Save $700 getting a better R7-1700, buy a monitor that's actually useful instead of overly expensive and glossy. Why are you listing the R56 as $600, that's $200 above retail.

Re:Good night

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't see any documentation on what flavor of Xeon is in these machines. Where did you come up with the W-2145?

Re:Good night

[Anonymous Coward]

Which component do you think is better than the one Apple uses in the base machine?

And no - the R7-1700 is not better than the Xeon W-2145 it's substantially worse - http://browser.geekbench.com/v....

As far as the price for the GPU goes... That's literally the price you can buy one for today. If you can find one cheaper, feel free to link it.

Re:Good night

[Anonymous Coward]

LGA2066 board: $200
PCIe card for 10Gb ethernet: $150
Saved you some there.

Most people will be fine with SKL-X, save some more $$.

Apple is reasonably priced when you try and build the exact same thing, and only at the time of its release. Otherwise definitely overpriced.

Re:Good night

[TheRaven64]

For those too lazy to click on the link, the Xeon is 25% and 50% faster on the geekbench single- and multi-threaded benchmarks, respectively. To get an idea of why, the Xeon has twice as much L2 cache and almost three times as much L3 (which is shared among all cores, whereas the Ryzen has theirs split into two halves, so data used on all cores will be more expensive to modify).

Re:Good night

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a lousy comparison. Sure there might be more total performance on the xeon that's 3 times the cost, but the two compared systems here have other glaring problems. The Xeon here has 4 times the memory operating at a faster speed. If you're going to spend the money for an x370 you should be getting near-top spec memory, not ddr3 speeds of 2133. The Xeon isn't going to clock correctly in an iMac either, so that's another factor in terms of comparing byo vs. taking apple's poor choices.

Has anyone ever built an AIO with a 140W tdp processor?

Re:Good night

[Anonymous Coward]

xeon schmeon, all I see is an 8 core CPU.

AMD Ryzen 1700X costs about $300 and has 8 cores. End of story.

Rip Off

[Anonymous Coward]

It's an overpriced rip off but Apple will sell thousands of them to their indoctrinated masses.

Cost Justification

[Anonymous Coward]

What sane budgeting department would pay for this? Everyone knows that Apple machines aren't made for actual productive work, and $5k for the most basic model seems like a hilarious waste for a device that will mostly be used for cobbling together some video clips/Garageband tracks.

Re:Cost Justification

[Anonymous Coward]

Artists only use Macs.

Re: Cost Justification

[akical0118]

4k and 8k video, gpus are usually 2-5k

Re: Cost Justification

[akical0118]

Surprising how little slashdot geeks know about 4k video, guess they haven't done more than hobby production

And still no Mac Pro.

[Kenja]

The trash can mac doesn't count. Ah well, guess Apple doesn't want my money any more...

Re:And still no Mac Pro.

[laughing_badger]

Still planned for 2018 AFAIK. Non-trashcan modular design.

Re:And still no Mac Pro.

[ColdWetDog]

Rubbermaid sells stackable trash cans.

Just say'in.

Re:And still no Mac Pro.

[OrangeTide]

They want you to buy a new iPhone every 2 years, for everyone in your family. That's better for Apple than buying a $5000 workstation every 5 years.

I still use my 2009 Mac Pro as my main system. I've upgraded everything over the years, include the CPUs (3.2GHz) and GPU (GeForce 980 Ti). It still chugs along OK for games when I boot Windows 7 on it, at least the games I play. Eventually the power supply will pop and it'll not be worth maintaining, but I'm hoping to squeeze 10 years of useful computation out of this system.

Re:And still no Mac Pro.

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple doesn't care about "Pro" customers anymore. I can't believe the amount of blind Apple defenders on Slashdot. I guess this dying site is the place where all the Apple fanboys hide out.

Apple is a software company

[sjbe]

Legally run OS X. For some folks, that's justification.

You may be joking but that is actually 100% correct. Steve Jobs himself pointed out that Apple is a software company. Their hardware is nice but nobody would pay a premium for it if it ran Windows or if the iPhone ran Android. The hardware for a Mac or an iPhone is not meaningfully different from any number of their competitors. So that means that the reason people seek out Apple products is based in what they do differently and that is software.

People get confused about what sort of business Apple is because they won't sell you most of their software without bundling it with a piece of hardware. But a company is what they actually make and what they actually make is software.

Re:Apple is a software company

[Anonymous Coward]

Well their software is pretty crappy.

Re:Apple is a software company

[Kjella]

Legally run OS X. For some folks, that's justification.

You may be joking but that is actually 100% correct.

Which is quite odd when you consider how much pro software is actually Mac-exclusive. Photoshop & friends have run on Windows forever and the only OS X-exclusive video editor is Final Cut Pro X. Every time I look at the "pro" Macs I get the impression this is a form of squeeze play by some artsy, fickle folks in the marketing department where they don't want to run an uncool Windows PeeCee and the employers figure it's better to just pay up than to lose good people over what's ultimately not that much relative to salary, benefits, recruitment and turnover costs. If it was a $5k Mac or $2k PC and a $1k/year pay raise I imagine you'd see a lot more Windows but it doesn't work like that.

Re:Apple is a software company

[samwichse]

If only they would make the one thing I'm interested in:

A goddamn tower with space for lots of hard drives (at least 4, 8 would be better), multiple video cards, free memory slots and a cooling system with lots of thermal overhead.

But they will. not. make. that.

WTF apple?

Re:Apple is a software company

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought one of those this year for 1/12 the price of this iMac. Fully loaded, dual multi-core processor, tons of RAM, dual video cards, the works. Runs cool and quiet with four internal drives. Only 8 years old. Some day, I might upgrade to a 2012 model. Haven't looked into any Apple hardware past that, so no spoilers, please. I can only imagine the amazing towers Apple must make today...

32 to 64 $800 and no you don't get keep the 32

[Joe_Dragon]

32GB to 64GB $800 and no you don't get keep the 32. Big rip off when for $800 you can get an 64GB ECC kit.

https://www.newegg.com/Product...

Re:32 to 64 $800 and no you don't get keep the 32

[Joe_Dragon]

Called it!!

https://www.apple.com/shop/buy...

also $800 to go from 1TB to 2TB SSD

A faster horse

[sjbe]

Xeon CPUs and powerful GPUs inside a pointlessly thin computer with a built-in display? What for? Who the fuck asked for this?

Henry Ford said it best when he said "If I asked my customers what they wanted they would have said a faster horse". Perhaps you are right and nobody wants this but Apple does have a pretty good track record of making products people didn't know they wanted. We'll know soon enough.

Either the internal heat will kill components prematurely or the thing will make even more jet noise than an old PowerPC G4 tower.

I'm glad you could clear that up for us without ever having seen the product.

Re:A faster horse

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps you are right and nobody wants this but Apple does have a pretty good track record of making products people didn't know they wanted. We'll know soon enough.

They do not, at least not in the area of professional workstations. The outgoing generation of Mac Pro had many issues with cooling and expandability.

Re:A faster horse

[Midnight Thunder]

Either the internal heat will kill components prematurely or the thing will make even more jet noise than an old PowerPC G4 tower.

I'm glad you could clear that up for us without ever having seen the product.

Well I do hope they get it right. I had a 27" iMac (the last gen with the DVD) that died because of heat. It was always extremely hot at the vents and then the graphics card failed. Apple wanted 700 CAD to fix it (apparently it required a mother board replacement), out of warranty. One place told me that a reflow could help and it did, but that only bought me two months, since it failed in the same way again.

If I was putting money down, I would be asking how hot it got and what sort of warranty there was.

Re:A faster horse

[Headw1nd]

I had the same issue- except is was the graphics card that died. At the time I couldn't justify $400 to buy the outdated graphics card that was the only one that could fit the case unmodified. It was a shame, I loved that machine.

Re:A faster horse

[Waccoon]

Henry Ford said it best when he said "If I asked my customers what they wanted they would have said a faster horse"

And if customers ask for a new Mac Pro because they DO know what they want, Apple tells them to fuck off.

This isn't the 1980's. The PC industry is a mature market, and Macs are not competing with horses, they are competing with other PCs built out of the same damn hardware.

I'm glad you could clear that up for us without ever having seen the product.

I bought a Mac Mini a while ago, and it indeed sounds like a jet when it gets hot. I was not expecting such a little, low-end machine to be so noisy. So, yeah, maybe there are reasons why people worry about stuff like that with new Macs.

Re:A faster horse

[DontBeAMoran]

Look up "smcFanControl".

Apple are, as usual, putting form before function, i.e. a quiet computer instead of a properly cooled one. And when the fans need to be heard it's because the CPU is already close to over-heating.

enterprise needs easy to remove storage

[Joe_Dragon]

enterprise needs easy to remove storage. Dell and HP let them DESTROY HDD's under warranty as well.

Just wait for some movie in post production getting leaked out of the apple repair shop when they can't remove the local storage.

Re:enterprise needs easy to remove storage

[tlhIngan]

enterprise needs easy to remove storage. Dell and HP let them DESTROY HDD's under warranty as well.

Just wait for some movie in post production getting leaked out of the apple repair shop when they can't remove the local storage.

Who does video post on internal hard drives? The Trashcan Mac Pro was notable because it has 6 Thunderbolt ports, to which you connect your disk arrays and perform your work. Thunderbolt is more than fast enough to handle the transfer speed of disk arrays that you'll be using. (After all, the assets of a movie can easily be 500+TB). If your Mac fails, you unplug the disk arrays and plug them into your new Mac.

And yes, video productions like it because they were using disk arrays already. Thunderbolt arrays are pricey, but available and fast.

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No it's not all you will get

[SuperKendall]

But I suppose it will be all we get.

Why do you suppose that? Apple has already said they are working on an updated Mac Pro as well. The iMac pro is just for people that want a more contained unit they never messed with.

In theory we should see the new Mac Pro in 2018, but I'm thinking maybe the end of 2018... but in the meantime if you need more performance from the Mac the iMac Pro seems like a pretty good system.

Re: No it's not all you will get

[Anonymous Coward]

By the end of 2018 Apple's computer business unit will have been consumed and spit out by Apple Capital LLC.

94% of Apple Capital's assets are outside the US and can't be used by the main 'Apple' for business purposes.

When the shell companies start to crumble, maybe the big spaceship building can be converted into a shopping mall.

Re:No it's not all you will get

[Anonymous Coward]

People who needed more performance to Windows years ago.

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Can get an dual AMD EPYC system for $1000 more

[Anonymous Coward]

Can get an dual AMD EPYC system for $1000 more with X4 the ram and in a rack mount case.

Re: Can get an dual AMD EPYC system for $1000 more

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but that's not glued into the back of a teevee screen.

Re: Can get an dual AMD EPYC system for $1000 more

[Big Boss]

I've got a tube on construction adhesive that says it can be!! Just $1000 per machine, I'll glue your box to any TV you want!

Gold Watch

[Anonymous Coward]

This is for people who want "the best" meaning the expensive status symbol of buying something expensive and better than other people can buy.

Most the people buying this will not have a practical need. Those that do, they would buy a tower... if there was one.

Apple used to know what Pro meant as far as one can expect for their industry. But today it is 100% pure marketing. I'm frankly surprised they are putting in server grade hardware-- that is a big deal and justifies the cost but everything else they do is not PRO.

Anything PRO has to be reliable because TIME IS MONEY for a pro. No expensive downtime makes the extra cost worth it. That includes not having to carry the awkward thing over to WAIT in an Apple store to deal with RAM, Storage, or GPU problem. (All of which I've had to deal with in server hardware.) Having a service plan for business needs also matters. Somebody who justifies a machine this expensive also can justify a quick hardware test with overnight shipped replacement parts; or same-day fix involving a storage swap into a loaner computer.

That different model also allows for long-term use of the same machine--- many don't need the fastest newest computer anymore. Like copy machines, it's more about the service plan than the performance. It is more like this with computers than ever before. For some, they justify the cost for constant upgrades... then a leasing plan makes sense.

Apple only gets more out of touch with business and they have dedicated people for that now; ironically.

don't need wireless in a desktop and reuse screen

[Joe_Dragon]

don't need wireless in a desktop and reuse my screen.

amd has more pci-e lanes so for pci-e storage syst

[Joe_Dragon]

amd has more pci-e lanes so for pci-e storage systems it's better. Hell if not needed to be redundant one system loaded with pci-e disk can power a full VM stack.

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hey you know that maxi-pad pro commercial

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey I got a question.
ya know that Maxi-pad-pro commercial the one with the androgynous being??
Is that a Boy or a Girl, further more Why does apple insist on hiding the fact that regardless of the form or "Ohhh its shiny apple goodness" its still a computer.
Why to that Force that Human Being to propagate the connotation that t's not.

further more, Is that HumanBeing the recepticle of whats left of JOBS's intelligence/essence? Is that thing in the commercial actually whats left of MR. Jobs (im referring to the bad of skin, liquid, and other things with may constitute a human being), if so it makes sense why, its so easy to spread falsely stoopid apple shit.

fuck-pads versus tampax maxipads, who will retain value.. The maxi pad of course, it will allways be useful and wil never end up in some land fill unused, unlike ALL aPpLe products..

if ya think about it, there really is some truth to that. Shame that we can derrive more value from a device that sopps -up human female blood as a primitive function versus the Higher level functions touted by the aPpLe product, and yet the weak are tricked into investing so much $ in these toys.. It's almost like the lottery, or Vegas.. Fucking stoopid..

Wow a New Windows Box...

[Anonymous Coward]

Horray,,
A new WinTel Baux With Icing on it..
Fucking stoopid..
All the Sheep are lame.

HP-Z apples mac pro needs to be kick ass and price

[Joe_Dragon]

HP-Z apples mac pro needs to be kick ass and priced at the same level as Dell and HP pro workstations.

Starting at $1499 - $1700 (desktop cpu class) (lower end pro / gamer system)

Starting at $1999 (workstation cpus)

With choices like
UP TO High end CPU's (maybe duel) with lower rage video.
Lower end CPUs starting point with UP TO high end WORKSTATION CARDS (room for duel X2 wide video cards)

As low as 256GB flash storage (boot / os / apps) with UP TO 4TB-6TB+ 3.5 HDD's storage SAS / SATA at least 2 bays. Can also take SAS / SATA SSD's (costs less then pci-e storage)

At least 2 M.2 slots with up to 4 slots.

E-SATA or room to install your own bracket.

Maybe on board dual sfp+ with an sfp+ to e-net transceiver (some new server boards have SFP+ on board)

These systems are brutal.

[Anonymous Coward]

We got one of them for testing about 5 days ago (it was the 18 core version). Nobody is impressed.

First off, they're only "quiet" if you're not using it. The moment you load it down, the fans spool up, and dear god- are the turbines inside that thing noisy as all fuck. Think of a server with 40mm dual turbine fans installed inside it- that's what our iMac Pro sounded like while we were testing it with a small Arnold workload (36 threads).

If you're using the CPU and GPU at the same time, weird shit starts to happen. It seems to be hit and miss, but either the CPU or the GPU gets throttled down- it seems like the system tries to do some sort of intelligent detection to pick which one, but it's a 50/50 chance that at least one of them is going to get downclocked HARD to keep the system from overheating (during one test, we saw the CPU throttle down to less than 30% of it's nominal speed, during another, the GPU downclocked itself so much that the OS X GUI was virtually unusable).

All in all, these aren't "Pro" machines. I don't even know why they threw a Xeon in there when Intel has the i9. I can only assume they're trying to play off the whole "OMG XEON R PROFESSIONAL" thing. Because clearly this is a "pro" level machine- especially when the whole thing runs around like headless chicken trying to throttle various internal components when placed under full load.

We have to send ours back soon, but we're sure as shit not going to be buying any. IT is already pushing hard to ditch all our Apple products throughout the entire organization due to the recent root exploit (which has pretty much shown us where their priorities lie software wise). Some of the graphics guys were hoping that maybe the iMac Pro would be something special, but it's not- it's just more of the same design bullshit with an Apple logo on the back.

You are guessing

[sjbe]

HP-Z apples mac pro needs to be kick ass and priced at the same level as Dell and HP pro workstations.

Why? People shopping for this machine probably aren't in the market for a Dell or HP. If they wanted a Windows machine they would buy one.

I have no idea if this new Apple Pro machine will sell well or not. Nor do I really care. But it's hardly inconceivable that it might sell very well. Time will tell if there is a market for it or not. Anyone pretending they know if it will succeed or fail right now is simply guessing.

and clones are better for apple workstations thin

[Joe_Dragon]

and clones are better for apple workstations. Then this thin and looks that apple has been doing.

The old mac pro tower was ok (hold over from the old g5 that needed the monster heat syncs.) but HP and dell have made cool towers that may not have the best looks but are easy to work on. Also pro users will put up with an loop back cable to route video card DP out to an ADD in TB card.

this was apples idea to replace the mac pro.

[Joe_Dragon]

this was apples idea to replace the mac pro.

high cpu workloads do not need an 8GB video card

[Joe_Dragon]

high cpu workloads do not need an 8GB video card.

apples start points are too high and like the 2013 mac pro to much on the video side at the base level.

Re:and clones are better for apple workstations th

[OrangeTide]

I feel like running a Mac has been nothing but a series of compromises.

Harumph

[AlanObject]

Still no touch screen.

And yes I would use it if it were there. For scroll/zoom if nothing else.

Re:Harumph

[GrBear]

Please keep your fingerprints to your own computer. Nothing screams annoyance than fingerprints on a glossy monitor.

Thimk Different

[PopeRatzo]

Show of hands, please:

How many of you believe that the people who buy this $5000 iMac will be the same people who actually need a $5000 iMac?

I'm thinking nah.

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Re: Imagine soldering is free

[Anonymous Coward]

But then it probably isnâ(TM)t.

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Does it have a headphone socket?

[Hognoxious]

n/c

Not overpriced, but overkill

[KayakFun]

While there will certainly be a few people who will use up all that CPU and graphics power, for many it will be complete overkill.

One month ago I was offered a job as Drupal web developer, and as all others in this hip startup had Macbooks varying from MacBook 12" to MacBookPro they offered me a fresh MacBookPro too. I declined and said I wanted a PC one-third of that price. Curious, they agreed.

What did I order? An Intel NUC (half the size a a MacMini), with a Core i3, 16 GB memory and a 256 GB SSD, with a 43" 4k monitor. Running Linux Mint 64bit Cinnamon, the most boring and most productive Linux flavour around. It costs ~EUR 1200. It can't do what this new Mac can do, but I don't have to do that anyway. Like so many Apple fanboys who won't either but will still buy this new Mac. Buying what you need can save you 75% versus what you want. Most of the software you use is Cloud-based, or Linux-capable.

My 43" monitor is the absolute sweetspot for 4k display. I do not have to zoom in because at this size it's just like 4x 22" HD monitors without the monitor edges cutting up the view. We do our weekly Trello sessions on my system because it feels like a whiteboard with Post-It notes. In PhpStorm it shown me a lot of code lines vertically. That 27" 5k monitor is way too small for that resolution, All-in-ones are not for professionals but for marketing people. But they do not need the processing power in that new Mac. So it will be a commercial success, selling more than twice the amount of units actually needed in this world.

Re:high cpu workloads do not need an 8GB video car

[ruddk]

I have a late 2013 iMac that where I selected the fastest CPU and a GPU with 4 GB RAM. Via iStat I can see that it often uses all the GPU memory when rendering videos.
  I'd rather not buy a new iMac. The old one still performs well with a external RAID cabinet for work files, but now I really hate that I have to replace everything to upgrade the machine.
Since there's no proper new workstation(and when it comes, I doubt that I can afford it), I have built a Hackintosh with a GTX1080 and a I7-7700K. It seems to render 3 times faster than the old one, all I need is a compatible bluetooth adapter(I use a mouse in one hand and magic trackpad with the other to scroll fast)
But there's a lot of time wasted getting it to boot the first time, and I'll bet that future updates will break the machine.
I am guessing in the long run, I will either use Premier Pro(had it not been for the subscription license) or perhaps DaVinci Resolve.
Oh well, it's just a hobby.

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No HDR, so obsolete

[Anonymous Coward]

This has 10 bit by dithering? Seriously? TVs have had 10 bit displays for a while now. Useless to video pros.

apple just had that root password issue with an

[Joe_Dragon]

apple just had that root password issue with an bad update that had it come it come back after installing it.

Overpriced

[Anonymous Coward]

I know, AC, but i just built a machine that beat the turd out of this one for $500 less.

AMD Threadripper 1950X (16 core)
64GB DDR4 RAM (3200)
GTX 1080Ti with 11G video RAM
1TB SSD (2 x Samsung Pro 960 512MB RAID 0)
2TB HDD (2 x Toshiba 7200RPM 2Tb RAID 1)
27" 4K monitor

Price, ~$4,500

We tested this against a Dual, 10Core Xeon with 128GB ram and a GTX 1080Ti that was around $10K from Dell (Video card seperate). The AMD rig was on average 20% faster in every test(rendering and compiling type tests). I can't wait till AMD's EPIC server chips come out...They are going to give Intel a run for the money!

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Buy what suits you

[sjbe]

And if customers ask for a new Mac Pro because they DO know what they want, Apple tells them to fuck off.

So does every other PC maker. No company can be all things to all people and Apple knows this better than most. Apple has never even pretended to try to accommodate every market niche. If you want something they don't offer then seek it elsewhere. I own some Apple products but I also own several PCs and other non-Apple devices based on what best suits my needs.

This isn't the 1980's. The PC industry is a mature market, and Macs are not competing with horses, they are competing with other PCs built out of the same damn hardware.

So if you like something else then buy that. Why is Apple under any obligation to make a product specific to your desires? Just because you think something is a good idea doesn't mean there is enough margin in it for Apple to make it worth their while.

I bought a Mac Mini a while ago, and it indeed sounds like a jet when it gets hot.

I have one too. Yes the fan does get louder when under load. Personally I prefer this to throttling the speed of the computer (or worse failure) all other things being equal. In practice it is seldom an issue for me. If it did it a lot I'd buy something faster but 99.9% of the time it's a non issue for me.

All things to all people

[sjbe]

If only they would make the one thing I'm interested in:

I could say that about nearly every PC maker in addition to Apple. No company can be or should try to be all things to all people. I understand why you want what you want but Apple has never pretended to try to serve every market niche. Users such as yourself who seeking expandibility are comparatively rare and it's pretty clear that they aren't the market segment Apple is targeting.

The good news is that there are good options out there that aren't from Apple.

Starting at $4,999?

[Anonymous Coward]

Holy effing Christ. $5k for a new iMac?

No amount of "courage" is worth that price.

Thanks Apple, but I think I'll go with a *nix box next time around.

Re:Starting at $4,999?

[Anonymous Coward]

> Holy effing Christ. $5k for a new iMac?
> No amount of "courage" is worth that price.

You know how much a brand new 128k Mac cost in 1984?

$2495.

You know how much that would be today, adjusted for inflation?

$5844.