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Apple iMac Pro Goes on Sale December 14th (engadget.com)

Posted by msmash on from the it's-here dept.

Apple vowed to ship the iMac Pro in December, and it's making good on that promise. From a report: The company has confirmed that its workstation-grade all-in-one will be available on December 14th. It has yet to reveal the exact configuration options, but the $4,999 'starter' model ships with an 8-core Xeon processor, 32GB of RAM, 1TB of solid-state storage and a Radeon Vega graphics chipset with 8GB of RAM. You can option it with up to an 18-core Xeon, 128GB of RAM, a 4TB SSD and a 16GB Vega chipset, although video creator Marques Brownlee notes that you'll have to wait until the new year for that 18-core beast.

157 of 278 comments (clear)

  1. Imagine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    A beowulf cluster of these

    1. Re:Imagine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Imagine spending $4999 on one of these

    2. Re:Imagine by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Imagine spending $4999 on one of these

      I'm actually considering buying one...

      I like the 5K screen, and need a beefy machine to run something like DaVinci Resolve for video editing, color grading, etc....especially if I start working with 4K footage.

      I'm working on old hardware (MBP late 2011, with 16GB ram, SSD card replacement main drive, external thunderbolt work and cache drives)....and even with Photoshop, if I'm working with compositing several RAW files, I can bog my system down.

      So, no...you don't really need this if you're just doing email and browsing the web.

      I've priced out comparable HP and other systems...and they run well over $5K quickly as you start to beef them up.

      And hey...it is a business write off!! Yet another good reason to incorporate yourself.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    3. Re:Imagine by torkus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Needs beefy machine.

      Runs 2011 MBP.

      Do I fail the fanboy test here or does that not make any sense? A (very) small segment of the user population needs a workstation class machine. For those who do and want to run OSX...welp break out the corporate cards. For everyone else, you can get more for less AND not have such a high level of lock-in. Maybe Apple will even let you upgrade this system...!

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    4. Re:Imagine by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Needs beefy machine.

      Runs 2011 MBP.

      Well, I've been struggling with what I have for a number of years....and right now, the old system doesn't do what I need.

      Not to mention, for big purchases, I like to save my nickles and dimes and buy what I want/need with cash and have no buyers remorse...therefore rather than make lots of small purchases, I save up and buy big and best as I can periodically.

      Currently, I can bog the little systems down for DAYS at a time with a heavy After Effects render.

      And I can't do much with Resolve before it halts things to a snails pace.

      So, yes, I'm looking for dropping some coin on a high end workstation type unit, that will hopefully get my preferred workflows going at a manageable speed, and hopefully, last me for a few years to come.

      Again, I've looked at something comparable, as recommended by Blackmagic Design, for running Resolve (linux or windows) with the HP Z840...which also get $$$ very quickly.

      I did a very quick comparable on the HP z840 to the base iMac pro and it was about $4665...it isn't exact, but is close to what Apple purports the base iMac pro to be. And also, the iMac pro includes the 5K 27" monitor which you would have to add to the HP or other comparable unit.

      No, not everyone needs this type of workstation, but if you are wanting to do a good bit of quality video, SPFX and even some high end photography compositing, etc....a nice high end system can make your day and workflow work for you.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    5. Re:Imagine by hipp5 · · Score: 2

      And hey...it is a business write off!! Yet another good reason to incorporate yourself.

      I don't know how it works in your jurisdiction, but here in Canada there is no need to incorporate to claim business expenses on your taxes. A computer would be depreciable property though, so you wouldn't be able to claim it all in one year.

    6. Re:Imagine by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      I don't know how it works in your jurisdiction, but here in Canada there is no need to incorporate to claim business expenses on your taxes. A computer would be depreciable property though, so you wouldn't be able to claim it all in one year.

      It makes it much cleaner in the US to incorporate yourself to write off business expenses. And here I can most definitely write off and claim the entire amounts in the year purchased.

      My CPA says I can, so I do....so anything computer or camera related (hell most anything even close to being something I attempt to make money with) I write off each year.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    7. Re:Imagine by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Seriously. Write off doesn't mean free.

      Of course it doesn't mean free....

      But a % savings on my tax bill is always a welcome thing, and I have to buy equipment anyway, so, nice to save a bit wherever I can!!!

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    8. Re:Imagine by ilsaloving · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I believe it's actually ECC RAM, which is much more expensive than the conventional desktop variety.

      The thing between Microsoft and Apple is, with Apple, you know right from the beginning that they're going to gouge you, but after that they're pretty good. Quality is good. Reliability is good. You don't have to deal with bullshit. (Well, historically this has been true... this past year Apple has done a fantastic job of shoving their reputation through a woodchipper).

      Microsoft, on the other hand, will screw you each day, every day, and you will either learn to accept it or throw your hands up and switch to something else. Their quality is shit. Their QA is shit. They demand that they have control of your machine, but they don't want to take responsibility for your machine, with the end result that your computer can go tits up one day through no fault of your own.

      As obnoxious as Apple is, there has never been a report, for example, where all Macs across an entire continent were suddenly yanked off the net due to a bad dhcp update. Microsoft has had so many bad updates that have hosed entire fleets of machines, that it's shameful. But because Microsoft has a monopoly, they can get away with it.

      Of course, I shouldn't speak too soon because so far I am very unimpressed with High Sierra, iOS 11. They have been buggy messes. And don't get me started on what they've done to their macbooks in recent years. The only reason I haven't gone back to Windows is because Apple and Microsoft seem to be in a "Hold My Beer" competition, and I can't predict how things are going to shake down, so I'll stick with the costs I have already sunk.

    9. Re:Imagine by Moridineas · · Score: 1

      You absolutely don't need to incorporate (or form an LLC--the more common option for individuals. An LLC is NOT a corporation), but they do make accounting and taxes cleaner.

      As a sole proprietorship you just add a tax form Schedule C and you can deduct and expense what you need. You have the option of deducting many expenses (like a computer) using "Section 179" deductions that let you take the whole amount in the year of purchase, as opposed to depreciating.

    10. Re:Imagine by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Needs beefy machine.

      Runs 2011 MBP.

      Do I fail the fanboy test here or does that not make any sense? A (very) small segment of the user population needs a workstation class machine. For those who do and want to run OSX...welp break out the corporate cards. For everyone else, you can get more for less AND not have such a high level of lock-in. Maybe Apple will even let you upgrade this system...!

      You say the "You can get more for less", and then proceed to NOT prove it.

      Good job!

    11. Re:Imagine by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Suddenly Windows 10 doesn't seem so bad. I bet I could even get XCode running in a VM on an Asus laptop if I had to.

      Found the Troll...

    12. Re:Imagine by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      As a sole proprietorship you just add a tax form Schedule C and you can deduct and expense what you need. You have the option of deducting many expenses (like a computer) using "Section 179" deductions that let you take the whole amount in the year of purchase, as opposed to depreciating.

      Well, being that as it may...like you said, it is cleaner to do it if incorporated.

      If you're doing ANY type of even remotely significant business, you should incorporate, the sole proprietorship thing is about the worst option you can take. You are open personally to litigation (lose the family house)....etc.

      In most states, you can incorporate very easily, fill out a couple forms, pay a small fee (usually under $100)...and voila you have legal and tax protections and capabilities you do not have as an individual.

      I went the short extra step and filed for federal Subchapter S incorporation (aka S-Corp), with this I have the added benefit of NOT having to pay employment taxes (SS and medicare) out of my full bill rate.

      I am sole owner and employee of my S-corp. It works like this..example: Say I bill out $100K a year. As an employee, I pay myself a "reasonable" salary (according to the IRS)...of about $40K say.

      Now...out of the payroll paycheck the company pays me monthly, I take out state, federal, SS and medicare taxes.

      So, that leaves the remaining $60K that falls into my personal income taxes at EOY.

      Now...after I deduct all expenses, expenditures, etc...what is remaining...is ONLY taxes at my personal rate for state and federal taxes. I don't have to pay SS/Medicare on that income.

      . Of course I have a CPA and this requires a bit of extra paperwork and paying taxes on the web mostly to feds and quarterly to state....but I save a significant amount of tax money this way.

      If you are a LLC, you pay employment taxes on 100% of what you bill.

      Now my example is for basically contract consulting, services...if you're selling stuff, dealing with inventory and sales tax...that's extra efforts.

      But anyway, it isn't rocket surgery to incorporate yourself, nor is it $$$. You have SO much to gain and so little to lose vs Sole Prop.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    13. Re:Imagine by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      In general if you build a system Spec per Spec to try to match the Apple Product you are going to pay about the same price +/- $100. However the real question is how many of these features you are matching do you really need or want. Where you can build a system at less of the specs and save a good amount of money.

      Apple isn't over charging for their products, but they are not offering a lot of choices that would meet our needs per price.

      This is a very old argument. However it still holds up.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    14. Re:Imagine by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      Sounds fishy to me. A business expense is a business expense, it isn't intended to subsidise your hobby. You might get away with claiming your golf clubs - if your main business is teaching golf.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    15. Re:Imagine by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Please link me to one

      Notice, they NEVER do...

    16. Re:Imagine by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Why... thought? I mean buying a product at $5,000 and it comes with a graphics card, that's two generations behind? Because of some weird brand-love that Apple wants to have with AMD? There's truth in that Apple people don't need the top-end hardware, and then there's truth in fucking over your customer with a high energy consumption, louder, shittier product in all respects.

      They explained that "brand new love" when the MBP 2016 came out.

      It has to do with the number of 4k and 5k displays that can be driven, and since you can take advantage of that with TB, and considering that this is much more likely to be used as a high-end GRAPHICS machine, rather than a Polygons-per-second GAMING machine, the decision makes perfect sense.

    17. Re:Imagine by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Sounds fishy to me. A business expense is a business expense, it isn't intended to subsidise your hobby. You might get away with claiming your golf clubs - if your main business is teaching golf.

      No, I try to be quite careful.

      It does just so happen, I want to monetize something that also is a personal interest (which often start off as a "hobby" ).

      But I have made genuine efforts to monetize the results of those equipment and software purchases.

      While I have earned some money off them to date, it isn't nearly what I"ve spent so far, but I do show I'm trying. That isn't the only part of the company business, some are more profitable than others, but I can fully show intent and efforts to make money with those purchases and activities.

      The majority of my company is related to IT, but that can be a VERY broad thing these days, as the there is a good bit of IT relating to videography and photography....the equipment for processing, generating, websites for promoting, sales...etc.

      No, I'd never think to buy golf clubs and try to write those off as one of my expenses. I'd think even if trying to justify for entertaining clients it would be a stretch, but for most anything electronic I buy, it is pretty much justifiable.

      And, no one has ever said you can't try to make money off of doing something you enjoy, right?

      Hell, isn't that the "dream" most of us have?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    18. Re:Imagine by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      My Ryzen build with dual 4k displays, dual GPUs, 64GB of RAM, 1TB of m.2 PCIe storage clocking in at ~4GB/sec read/write and 1TB of SATA RAID SSD storage clocking in at ~1GB/sec read/write runs circles around the iMac Pro for $1k less. I was a launch-day adopter of the platform and bought parts on preorder; most of the parts I bought are cheaper now, none have increased in price, so you could probably build this same system today for closer to $3500.

      You good, bro?

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    19. Re:Imagine by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      So the current-gen cards can drive fewer displays than the older ones? Huh...

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    20. Re:Imagine by tylersoze · · Score: 1

      Yep, S-Corp all the way. I'll be saving about 10K this year on Medicare and SS payroll taxes.

      Hopefully this time next year I'll be writing off a big *Mac* Pro expense.

    21. Re:Imagine by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      My Ryzen build with dual 4k displays, dual GPUs, 64GB of RAM, 1TB of m.2 PCIe storage clocking in at ~4GB/sec read/write and 1TB of SATA RAID SSD storage clocking in at ~1GB/sec read/write runs circles around the iMac Pro for $1k less. I was a launch-day adopter of the platform and bought parts on preorder; most of the parts I bought are cheaper now, none have increased in price, so you could probably build this same system today for closer to $3500.

      I had actually considered doing a DIY build of a thread ripper system, as that I understand I could put together a fairly massive system, for linux that I could run Davinci Resolve on and do 4K video.

      The trouble is, I haven't tried building a computer in multiple decades....and I don't have time to spend researching the myriad of material combinations (cpus, vs boards vs power supplies vs....etc).

      I would, however, be more interested if there were a build list of a proven system for doing a high end workstation that would run Resolve....do you have a listing or know of site(s) that have parts lists to get to build a good high end system like I'm wanting?

      I'm not married to Apple....but I do know that it will run everything I need (in this case would do Resolve, Photoshop, FCPX, LR, AE...basically all my photo and video stuff) right out of the box.

      I want to get a system working quick and spend most of my time doing photos and videos....I really am not that interested in tweaking around on the computer itself, but the tools it needs to run....FAST.

      Thanks in advance for any links or such you might have....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    22. Re:Imagine by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Hopefully this time next year I'll be writing off a big *Mac* Pro expense.

      Have you heard anything about a Mac Pro release?

      I have been waiting a LONG time already and really need a better AV system to work on....

      Not sure I want to wait another WHOLE year for the Mac Pro that may or may not be coming out in 2018.....

      But yes....I like writing off new computers...every little bit helps!!!

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    23. Re:Imagine by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Keeping the same number would be timid. Increasing it would be downright cowardly!

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    24. Re:Imagine by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      I'll second the recommendation made by the AC above me and throw in that it's a lot easier today than it was a couple decades ago; not that it was too difficult back then, either.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    25. Re:Imagine by exomondo · · Score: 1

      I did a very quick comparable on the HP z840 to the base iMac pro and it was about $4665...it isn't exact, but is close to what Apple purports the base iMac pro to be. And also, the iMac pro includes the 5K 27" monitor which you would have to add to the HP or other comparable unit.

      But you also get expandability, and of particular interest in your specific case Resolve leverages multiple GPUs so if things start to slow down you can simply add another GPU to the HP system and you're good to go, to improve the performance on the iMac you have to scrap the entire system, including the display, and buy a new one.

      That's not going to be the case for everybody but certainly in your case the choice of something expandable is definitely the right one. If you really just want an Apple then holding out for the improved Mac Pro would be the right choice over the iMac.

    26. Re:Imagine by Megane · · Score: 1

      Needs beefy machine.

      Runs 2011 MBP.

      Do I fail the fanboy test here or does that not make any sense?

      2011-2012 was the last time you could upgrade the RAM and SATA drive yourself. Late-2011 might imply he's using the 17" version, which was discontinued in mid-2012 without a refresh, when the Retina series was announced. They're still nice; I'm using one right now. One more refresh and it would have had USB 3.0. The only way a 17" can get USB 3.0 is with an ExpressCard, and the card needs an external power supply to get 500ma out of a port to power an external drive. (I suppose a Thunderbolt-to-USB 3.0 interface is possible, but it would also need external power.)

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    27. Re:Imagine by resignator · · Score: 1

      Why not just install iOS on an intel based system if you hate win10 so much? It's much cheaper than buying overpriced apple hardward and you can upgrade anything you desire. There are a few methods but Unibeast works like a charm for legit purchased copies of iOS. All you need is an external HD and internet connection.

      --
      "At first, we thought it was just another snake cult."
    28. Re:Imagine by Megane · · Score: 1

      Because of some weird brand-love that Apple wants to have with AMD?

      Probably more due to brand-hate for Nvidia, after all those crappy mobile GPUs they got back in 2010-2012. (Crappy as in the internal chip mounting was crap and they would die after a few years of use.)

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    29. Re:Imagine by diamondmagic · · Score: 1

      https://www.apple.com/imac-pro...

      Memory
      32GB of 2666MHz DDR4 ECC memory
      Configurable to 64GB or 128GB

      --
      Wonder what the public key field is for?
    30. Re:Imagine by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      I'll second the recommendation made by the AC above me and throw in that it's a lot easier today than it was a couple decades ago; not that it was too difficult back then, either.

      Ok..so that site he listed is the go to one for finding out successful builds?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    31. Re:Imagine by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      My Ryzen build with dual 4k displays, dual GPUs, 64GB of RAM, 1TB of m.2 PCIe storage clocking in at ~4GB/sec read/write and 1TB of SATA RAID SSD storage clocking in at ~1GB/sec read/write runs circles around the iMac Pro for $1k less.

      Yeah, you can build your own system for less than what an OEM will charge. WYP?

    32. Re:Imagine by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      WYP?

      "You can get more for less"

      It was pretty clearly stated in the post I was replying to, actually.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    33. Re:Imagine by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      My Ryzen build with dual 4k displays, dual GPUs, 64GB of RAM, 1TB of m.2 PCIe storage clocking in at ~4GB/sec read/write and 1TB of SATA RAID SSD storage clocking in at ~1GB/sec read/write runs circles around the iMac Pro for $1k less. I was a launch-day adopter of the platform and bought parts on preorder; most of the parts I bought are cheaper now, none have increased in price, so you could probably build this same system today for closer to $3500.

      You good, bro?

      Are you running that as a Hackintosh? If not, you are losing a significant "hidden value" right there, IMHO.

      Then there's the little matter of no warranty. Believe it or not, OEMs co spider that as a COGS for their products. Whether or not that is worth an extra $1k is, of course, debatable... ;-)

      And yeah, I'm good...

    34. Re:Imagine by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      So the current-gen cards can drive fewer displays than the older ones? Huh...

      Where did I say that?

    35. Re:Imagine by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Are you running that as a Hackintosh? If not, you are losing a significant "hidden value" right there, IMHO.

      No, as unmodified macOS install images don't run on AMD and there was no Ryzen kernel available the day I built it. Add to that, some of the software I built that machine to run simply doesn't exist on a Mac. My DAW, for example. Even if I were willing to adjust my workflow to a new DAW, many of my (expensive) VSTs don't have Mac versions; even if I were willing to spend the money to replace those, the replacements wouldn't provide the same functionality or sound, so it's not even an option.

      Then, there's gaming... even my "I'll never use a PC" wife now maintains a Windows laptop for gaming because Mac ports of games, when they even exist, just simply suck. Take Fortnite as a recent example; not only is the macOS version roughly twice the size of the Windows version (I can't imagine why and won't speculate, I'm simply stating it as a fact), it barely runs on a brand new MacBook Pro. And I'm not talking about low framerates at the lowest quality settings; that's what I've come to expect from a Mac when gaming is involved and I would have accepted that just as well... No, I'm talking about 1-5 second stalls. Amazingly, when it's not stalled, it has no trouble keeping up on more or less medium quality settings, but the stalls kill it.

      What prompted my wife to seek a PC for gaming was, of all the simplistic crap a Mac could possibly have trouble with, The Sims. Even her 2016 5k iMac with 32GB of RAM struggles to run it at 1080p with moderate quality settings. I was in a state of utter disbelief when she told me, so I spent a couple hours working with her, tweaking the settings, insisting that she must have messed the settings somehow to make it so slow and unstable but no... Mind you, she does have a lot of mods and expansions, so my next move was to blame those. No, she hadn't gotten it running satisfactorily enough to have bothered installing them by that point. When I built my workstation, I ended up giving her the Windows laptop I had been using and, despite having half the RAM and an older-gen i7 than the iMac, she's managed to get all of her mods and expansions installed and working and it runs fast and stable at 4k.

      Like most people, my wife and I derive value from our systems by using them for the things we want (or need) to use them for; some of those things are just better on Windows. For my primary work tasks, the MacBook Pro w/ Touch Bar that I'm writing this post on currently (a machine I swore, when it was released, I would never buy, mind you) is more than sufficient; for the things I built that workstation for, the Mac platform isn't even an option. Perhaps if Apple sold systems with that kind of power, developers of applications that need that kind of power would bother dedicating resources to maintaining (or creating; many simply don't exist) their Mac ports?

      Then there's the little matter of no warranty

      No warranty? Every part I bought has a warranty, many of those are longer than the 1 year I'd get from an OEM. Sometimes it's hard to take you seriously.

      That autocorrect made me giggle a bit, tho... I'm assuming you meant "consider"?

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    36. Re:Imagine by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      It has to do with the number of 4k and 5k displays that can be driven

      You didn't outright say it, but you sure implied it.

      You used to have such good arguments for the Mac; what happened?

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    37. Re: Imagine by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      This is your one and only rig, so you'll be using it for non-business use as well I assume, would be an expense for only the percentage of its use that is only business?

    38. Re:Imagine by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Yes, there is a section there to start a build, which will more or less guide you through the process of picking parts, as well as a section of build guides and a place to post your completed builds. You can also just browse individual parts and find lists of compatible components for each part (which is what the "start a build" option on the homepage uses to guide you, by the way). It's been a while since I've used the site but it doesn't look like a whole lot has changed in that time, definitely a good resource.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    39. Re:Imagine by Yaztromo · · Score: 3, Informative

      But you also get expandability, and of particular interest in your specific case Resolve leverages multiple GPUs so if things start to slow down you can simply add another GPU to the HP system and you're good to go, to improve the performance on the iMac you have to scrap the entire system, including the display, and buy a new one.

      That is not true -- macOS High Sierra supports external Thunderbolt 3 connected GPUs.

      Yaz

    40. Re:Imagine by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      Because, and please correct me if I'm wrong, there isn't a single hardware combination that works 100% without some kind of issue. And even if there was a perfect 100% hardware compatible system, you *still* can't take advantage of certain key features such as FileVault.

      I've already tried going the hackintosh route, and at the end of the day it just wasn't worth it. It was easier to just say hell with it and pay the extra money on official hardware.

    41. Re:Imagine by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Are you running that as a Hackintosh? If not, you are losing a significant "hidden value" right there, IMHO.

      No, as unmodified macOS install images don't run on AMD and there was no Ryzen kernel available the day I built it. Add to that, some of the software I built that machine to run simply doesn't exist on a Mac. My DAW, for example. Even if I were willing to adjust my workflow to a new DAW, many of my (expensive) VSTs don't have Mac versions; even if I were willing to spend the money to replace those, the replacements wouldn't provide the same functionality or sound, so it's not even an option.

      On a Mac, use Logic. Period. And there is now a Freeware VST-Wrapper (which also has a 32-bit to 64-bit Wrapper, too!) by the same guy. Can't remember the name; but I've got it bookmarked at home. That will get you out of the VST conundrum.

      BTW, is there a Ryzen Kernel now? (I assume that you mean a version of Darwin recompiled for AMD, right?)

      Then, there's gaming... even my "I'll never use a PC" wife now maintains a Windows laptop for gaming because Mac ports of games, when they even exist, just simply suck. Take Fortnite as a recent example; not only is the macOS version roughly twice the size of the Windows version (I can't imagine why and won't speculate, I'm simply stating it as a fact), it barely runs on a brand new MacBook Pro.

      Shitty WIndows-centric Coders.

      And I'm not talking about low framerates at the lowest quality settings; that's what I've come to expect from a Mac when gaming is involved and I would have accepted that just as well... No, I'm talking about 1-5 second stalls. Amazingly, when it's not stalled, it has no trouble keeping up on more or less medium quality settings, but the stalls kill it.

      Even with Games that are "Metal"-based?

      What prompted my wife to seek a PC for gaming was, of all the simplistic crap a Mac could possibly have trouble with, The Sims. Even her 2016 5k iMac with 32GB of RAM struggles to run it at 1080p with moderate quality settings. I was in a state of utter disbelief when she told me, so I spent a couple hours working with her, tweaking the settings, insisting that she must have messed the settings somehow to make it so slow and unstable but no... Mind you, she does have a lot of mods and expansions, so my next move was to blame those. No, she hadn't gotten it running satisfactorily enough to have bothered installing them by that point. When I built my workstation, I ended up giving her the Windows laptop I had been using and, despite having half the RAM and an older-gen i7 than the iMac, she's managed to get all of her mods and expansions installed and working and it runs fast and stable at 4k.

      That's just poor-ass coders. Nothing intrinsic to the Mac is causing that. Sorry.

      And you bloody-well know that.

      Like most people, my wife and I derive value from our systems by using them for the things we want (or need) to use them for; some of those things are just better on Windows. For my primary work tasks, the MacBook Pro w/ Touch Bar that I'm writing this post on currently (a machine I swore, when it was released, I would never buy, mind you) is more than sufficient; for the things I built that workstation for, the Mac platform isn't even an option. Perhaps if Apple sold systems with that kind of power, developers of applications that need that kind of power would bother dedicating resources to maintaining (or creating; many simply don't exist) their Mac ports?

      Then there's the little matter of no warranty

      No warranty? Every part I bought has a warranty, many of those are longer than the 1 year I'd get from an OEM. Sometimes it's hard to take you seriously.

      That autocorrect made me giggle a bit, tho... I'm assuming you meant "consider"?

      I didn't even see it, sorry!

    42. Re:Imagine by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      It has to do with the number of 4k and 5k displays that can be driven

      You didn't outright say it, but you sure implied it.

      You used to have such good arguments for the Mac; what happened?

      Getting burnt-out on Slashdot, I guess...

    43. Re:Imagine by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      On a Mac, use Logic. Period. And there is now a Freeware VST-Wrapper (which also has a 32-bit to 64-bit Wrapper, too!) by the same guy. Can't remember the name; but I've got it bookmarked at home. That will get you out of the VST conundrum.

      Wrapper or none, I'm not so sure a .dll VST will run on a Mac, know what I mean? Last I checked, Logic will use VST natively, but they have to be compiled for Mac.

      BTW, is there a Ryzen Kernel now? (I assume that you mean a version of Darwin recompiled for AMD, right?)

      I would assume so by now, obviously not with Apple's blessing, though.

      Shitty WIndows-centric Coders.

      They've got ports on PS4 and XBox One that run fine, so I'd hold off on that assessment.

      Even with Games that are "Metal"-based?

      Couldn't tell you. Got any examples of such games? Metal, though, is just the graphics layer and, as I said, the MacBook Pro had no issue keeping up with graphics; the stalling was the entire system freezing when the CPU p-state changed due to thermal throttling, so I'd guess Metal wouldn't help much.

      That's just poor-ass coders. Nothing intrinsic to the Mac is causing that. Sorry.

      And you bloody-well know that.

      I never said it was anything intrinsic to the Mac, actually... I did, however, say the following:

      Like most people, my wife and I derive value from our systems by using them for the things we want (or need) to use them for; some of those things are just better on Windows.

      Whether that's Apple's fault or not, it's still true. If it's not Apple's fault, that's actually even worse for Apple, because it means Apple can't fix it. Honestly, I'd rather it was a problem with the platform.

      And don't apologize for the autocorrect, it made me smile. Never apologize for making someone smile ;)

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    44. Re:Imagine by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Hah. Tell me about it. There are a handful of lunatics on here who just ruin the experience lately. UnknowingFool still comes at me every chance he gets with his "multiple people have called you a liar so you must be a liar and I don't need evidence for that claim" bullshit, the the point where I straight up called him a child rapist with the intent of getting two more people to make the same claim... because, you know, then it'll be true and he'll have to willingly face prison time for it... right? By his own logic, at least. At least I did warn him it was coming.

      But at least now he has a lie to point to next time he calls me a liar.... or does he? It depends, if I can get you and one other person to jump in, by his own standard it'll become truth, if it's not already.

      It took over a decade and a half for someone to push me to near-libel on here. I say near-libel because, if I'm the liar he claims me to be, nobody could possibly take my words seriously and, thus, my words cannot harm his reputation; he'd have to admit I'm not a liar to prove any damages caused by my words and, in doing so, would have to admit what I said to be true.

      He's just learned the dangers of consistently calling someone out as a liar, though, and hasn't said a single word to me since. So there's that, I suppose. Maybe Slashdot will start getting better now.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    45. Re:Imagine by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Depends on whether you're making money off your hobby. A friend of mine was selling electronic art (Poser, etc.), and her CPA told her to come up with some expenses or the IRS would consider it a business she'd have to pay FICA on. She bought a very nice Mac.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    46. Re:Imagine by Agripa · · Score: 1

      I believe it's actually ECC RAM, which is much more expensive than the conventional desktop variety.

      The price premium for ECC RAM is insignificant unless someone like Intel uses it for market segmentation which of course they do.

    47. Re:Imagine by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      And I'm clearly pointing out that anyone who jumps into discussions about OEM products, to proudly announce that he ordered his own parts to save a few bucks is a wanker.

    48. Re:Imagine by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      It wasn't about saving a few bucks, actually; it was about building the best system I could build for my needs. I built the system before any OEM was selling anything similar; in fact, they're still not selling anything similar.

      Shall I point out that anyone who assumes people who build their own computers must be trying to save a buck is, absolutely, a wanker?

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    49. Re:Imagine by exomondo · · Score: 1

      You lose a significant amount of performance by connecting the GPU that way just on the bus speed alone, that's even before you get to the inability to leverage Infinity Fabric or NVLINK which are incredibly important to multi-GPU computing. The performance gap of communicating between GPUs over Thunderbolt VS PCIe is bad enough but compared to Infinity Fabric or NVLINK it's a complete non-starter.

      If you've actually used the solution you suggest then you already know the performance is absolutely woeful.

  2. Re:$5,000? by tbuddy · · Score: 1

    This joke never gets old.

  3. Re:Hahahahaha by Sarten-X · · Score: 5, Informative

    Legally run OS X.

    For some folks, that's justification.

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  4. Re:Overpriced by Hawks · · Score: 4, Informative

    According to Apple's web site the iMac pro has:
    4xThunderbolt 3(USB-C), suppotring 2 additional 5K kmonitors
    1X10Gb ethernet (Nbase-T 1,2.5,5,10Gb support)
    4XUSB 3
    SDXC card slot
    and a mini-headphone jack

    --
    in anima Apparatus
  5. Re:Hahahahaha by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 2

    If a workstation costs less than $250, it ain’t a workstation in the computing sense.

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  6. Re:Overpriced by tbuddy · · Score: 5, Funny

    It has 8 USB ports so I kind of look at it as $625 per port. My Mac Pro was $4800 and only has 4 USB ports, so I'd say this is a significantly better value than what I have. I'll be waiting outside the Apple Store on Thursday to pick one up.

  7. I still think it's a dumb idea by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Xeon CPUs and powerful GPUs inside a pointlessly thin computer with a built-in display? What for? Who the fuck asked for this?

    Either the internal heat will kill components prematurely or the thing will make even more jet noise than an old PowerPC G4 tower.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
    1. Re:I still think it's a dumb idea by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      Those of us who look longingly and our cheese grater stuffed in a box somewhere and wish, really wish, Apple could, you know, improve on the concept of a high end, expandable Mac instead of something that looks like Jony Ive's idea of an ashtray.

      Well, we didn't exactly ask for that. But I suppose it will be all we get.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:I still think it's a dumb idea by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      Dare I say it, I think Apple has probably considered these things and have done appropriate things to ameliorate the issues you've raised with the iMac Pro.

      My concern is similar to the Trashcan Mac: Yup, it's absolute gorgeous. But what happens in two years when Intel puts out a new line of Xeon CPUs that run a little hotter.

      I mean, I'm probably not spending $4999 for it now. But I might be in the market in a couple of years. When I buy a "Pro" machine and I fork over that kind of money, I expect to be getting the latest and greatest. I don't expect to be buying 2-3 year old technology because Apple made the machine spectacularly attractive, yet ran it so close to the limits that they'd have to completely redesign everything in order to make it work with the latest chips.

      I appreciate the iMac Pro. But I'll wait and see what happens with the next Xeon CPU upgrade and how quickly Apple can use those before I consider getting one.

    3. Re:I still think it's a dumb idea by cyn1c77 · · Score: 1

      Xeon CPUs and powerful GPUs inside a pointlessly thin computer with a built-in display? What for? Who the fuck asked for this?

      Either the internal heat will kill components prematurely or the thing will make even more jet noise than an old PowerPC G4 tower.

      They are redesigning the Mac Pro to be modular again. They want to cash in on their desperate customers with the iMac Pro before they release it though!

  8. Re:Overpriced by ctilsie242 · · Score: 1

    At least you get a free monitor with it.

  9. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  10. Re:Overpriced by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 4, Funny

    No FireWire 400.

    Lame.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  11. Re:Overpriced by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 3, Funny

    Dude, the Mac mini is only $499 and also has four USB ports. At only $125 per port, it's a much better value!

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  12. Re:Hahahahaha by sproketboy · · Score: 1

    Sucker.

  13. Re:Hahahahaha by fred6666 · · Score: 1

    don't confuse the law and Apple EULA

  14. Re:Overpriced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Is it?

    Xeon W-2145 - $1113
    Cheapest LGA-2066 board available with 10Gb ethernet - $650
    32GB DDR4 - $400
    1TB 3.2GB/s PCIe SSD - $500
    Radeon Vega 56 - $600
    5k 27" monitor - $1300
    PSU, WiFi + Bluetooth card, wireless keyboard, wireless mouse, thunderbolt card, CPU cooler, case - ~$400

    Total - $4963

    Seems like it's pretty much in line with how much it would cost to build the same system yourself.

  15. Re:Overpriced by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    Me: "free"
    Michael Eisner: Thank you DontBeAMoran, that was the joke.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  16. Re: Hahahahaha by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    It's just a fancy name for "work bench", a.k.a. the place where you put your 3D printer and Arduino projects.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  17. Re:Good night by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    No, the CPU (Xeon W-2145) alone is more expensive than your 1/5th estimate for building it yourself.

    Here's a rough sketch of what you'd need to buy to match this system:
    Xeon W-2145 - $1113
    Cheapest LGA-2066 board available with 10Gb ethernet - $650
    32GB DDR4 - $400
    1TB 3.2GB/s PCIe SSD - $500
    Radeon Vega 56 - $600
    5k 27" monitor - $1300
    PSU, WiFi + Bluetooth card, wireless keyboard, wireless mouse, thunderbolt card, CPU cooler, case - ~$400

    Total - $4963

  18. Re: Overpriced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Stop it with your sensible and honest comments. You are ruining the basement dwellers group mastubatory echo chamber.

  19. Re:Overpriced by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

    No SCSI. Hell, I'll bet it doesn't even have a parallel port

    Wikipedia article here for those not old enough to remember this bit of communication history.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  20. Re:Overpriced by LordKronos · · Score: 4, Funny

    and a mini-headphone jack

    They didn't eliminate it? What a bunch of cowards.

  21. Re:Overpriced by Mikkeles · · Score: 2

    "...and a mini-headphone jack"

    I wonder if it can be moved to an iPhone.

    --
    Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
  22. Re:Hahahahaha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    He wasn't. He was "confusing" copyright law with the law... which was an entirely valid thing to do - copyright law *is* (part of) the law.

    The EULA doesn't have to be anything to do with the law, it's just the contract that you agree to in order to in order to not violate copyright law.

  23. Re:Overpriced by tbuddy · · Score: 1

    Mac Mini comes with white Apple stickers while the Pro line of desktops come with black Apple stickers. I'm not putting poor people stickers on my 1998 Ford Focus.

  24. Re: Hahahahaha by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here, let me help:

    A workstation is a special computer designed for technical or scientific applications.

    It's fun to call our Chromebooks a "workstation", but traditionally that's not remotely what it means.

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  25. Re:Hahahahaha by Baron_Yam · · Score: 2

    > I can't imagine what these things do that justify that price tag

    Well... I'm just going to throw out the suggestion that Apple has a really, really strong brand loyalty factor going for it, and there's going to be an Apple logo on these things...

  26. Re:Overpriced by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    Ah yes, the parallel port. The port I used to connect almost anything except a printer.

    Remember LPT 8-bit DAC?
    Remember LPT SNES gamepad?
    I 'member!

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  27. Re:Good night by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

    But it will be expandable/upgradeable and thus a better "Pro" machine than the Mac "Pro."

  28. Re:Overpriced by dhaen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Very few people have any use for a system like this though, particularly if it's not running Windows.

    I fail to see what "running Windows" has to do with the argument. It's obviously aimed at a market point that you have no knowledge of. Multiple 5K displays are most likely of use to people in moving image processing, this relatively big data needs this spec as an absolute minimum nowadays.

    I doubt very many will be bought for gaming.

  29. And still no Mac Pro. by Kenja · · Score: 2

    The trash can mac doesn't count. Ah well, guess Apple doesn't want my money any more...

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    1. Re:And still no Mac Pro. by laughing_badger · · Score: 3, Informative

      Still planned for 2018 AFAIK. Non-trashcan modular design.

      --
      Help children born unable to swallow - www.tofs.org.uk
    2. Re:And still no Mac Pro. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Rubbermaid sells stackable trash cans.

      Just say'in.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re:And still no Mac Pro. by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      They want you to buy a new iPhone every 2 years, for everyone in your family. That's better for Apple than buying a $5000 workstation every 5 years.

      I still use my 2009 Mac Pro as my main system. I've upgraded everything over the years, include the CPUs (3.2GHz) and GPU (GeForce 980 Ti). It still chugs along OK for games when I boot Windows 7 on it, at least the games I play. Eventually the power supply will pop and it'll not be worth maintaining, but I'm hoping to squeeze 10 years of useful computation out of this system.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  30. Re:Good night by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Well, a few of those components are artificially inflated because they are newly released and Apple is one of the few OEMs pulling them in. But yeah, it is no where close to a 1/5. If you were to take your time sourcing the items over 2-3 months I think you'd end up at about $3k....but you'd be at $3k with the ability to upgrade everything in the system.

  31. Re:Overpriced by MightyYar · · Score: 2

    For me it's not the shame of the white stickers, but the fact that my Pontiac is white, and so the sticker won't show up very well.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  32. Re:$5,000? by 110010001000 · · Score: 1, Funny

    I am not Christian so I guess I don't get a Christmas bonus. In government IT we don't call them "Christmas" bonuses. It is culturally insensitive.

  33. Re: Overpriced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    lol clutching at straws desperation

    Why not also price up 2 much cheaper 4 core CPUâ(TM)s and glue them together? Thatâ(TM)s still 8 cored but way cheaper...

    Idiot

  34. Apple is a software company by sjbe · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Legally run OS X. For some folks, that's justification.

    You may be joking but that is actually 100% correct. Steve Jobs himself pointed out that Apple is a software company. Their hardware is nice but nobody would pay a premium for it if it ran Windows or if the iPhone ran Android. The hardware for a Mac or an iPhone is not meaningfully different from any number of their competitors. So that means that the reason people seek out Apple products is based in what they do differently and that is software.

    People get confused about what sort of business Apple is because they won't sell you most of their software without bundling it with a piece of hardware. But a company is what they actually make and what they actually make is software.

    1. Re:Apple is a software company by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Legally run OS X. For some folks, that's justification.

      You may be joking but that is actually 100% correct.

      Which is quite odd when you consider how much pro software is actually Mac-exclusive. Photoshop & friends have run on Windows forever and the only OS X-exclusive video editor is Final Cut Pro X. Every time I look at the "pro" Macs I get the impression this is a form of squeeze play by some artsy, fickle folks in the marketing department where they don't want to run an uncool Windows PeeCee and the employers figure it's better to just pay up than to lose good people over what's ultimately not that much relative to salary, benefits, recruitment and turnover costs. If it was a $5k Mac or $2k PC and a $1k/year pay raise I imagine you'd see a lot more Windows but it doesn't work like that.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:Apple is a software company by samwichse · · Score: 1

      If only they would make the one thing I'm interested in:

      A goddamn tower with space for lots of hard drives (at least 4, 8 would be better), multiple video cards, free memory slots and a cooling system with lots of thermal overhead.

      But they will. not. make. that.

      WTF apple?

  35. Re:$5,000? by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

    I like working in government IT. We keep the terrorists from taking away our freedoms.

  36. Re:Overpriced by torkus · · Score: 1

    No courage went into building this machine I see. I'll have to pass then!

    --
    You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
  37. 32 to 64 $800 and no you don't get keep the 32 by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    32GB to 64GB $800 and no you don't get keep the 32. Big rip off when for $800 you can get an 64GB ECC kit.

    https://www.newegg.com/Product...

    1. Re:32 to 64 $800 and no you don't get keep the 32 by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      Called it!!

      https://www.apple.com/shop/buy...

      also $800 to go from 1TB to 2TB SSD

  38. A faster horse by sjbe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Xeon CPUs and powerful GPUs inside a pointlessly thin computer with a built-in display? What for? Who the fuck asked for this?

    Henry Ford said it best when he said "If I asked my customers what they wanted they would have said a faster horse". Perhaps you are right and nobody wants this but Apple does have a pretty good track record of making products people didn't know they wanted. We'll know soon enough.

    Either the internal heat will kill components prematurely or the thing will make even more jet noise than an old PowerPC G4 tower.

    I'm glad you could clear that up for us without ever having seen the product.

    1. Re:A faster horse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you are right and nobody wants this but Apple does have a pretty good track record of making products people didn't know they wanted. We'll know soon enough.

      They do not, at least not in the area of professional workstations. The outgoing generation of Mac Pro had many issues with cooling and expandability.

    2. Re:A faster horse by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 2

      Either the internal heat will kill components prematurely or the thing will make even more jet noise than an old PowerPC G4 tower.

      I'm glad you could clear that up for us without ever having seen the product.

      Well I do hope they get it right. I had a 27" iMac (the last gen with the DVD) that died because of heat. It was always extremely hot at the vents and then the graphics card failed. Apple wanted 700 CAD to fix it (apparently it required a mother board replacement), out of warranty. One place told me that a reflow could help and it did, but that only bought me two months, since it failed in the same way again.

      If I was putting money down, I would be asking how hot it got and what sort of warranty there was.

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    3. Re:A faster horse by Headw1nd · · Score: 1

      I had the same issue- except is was the graphics card that died. At the time I couldn't justify $400 to buy the outdated graphics card that was the only one that could fit the case unmodified. It was a shame, I loved that machine.

    4. Re:A faster horse by Waccoon · · Score: 1

      Henry Ford said it best when he said "If I asked my customers what they wanted they would have said a faster horse"

      And if customers ask for a new Mac Pro because they DO know what they want, Apple tells them to fuck off.

      This isn't the 1980's. The PC industry is a mature market, and Macs are not competing with horses, they are competing with other PCs built out of the same damn hardware.

      I'm glad you could clear that up for us without ever having seen the product.

      I bought a Mac Mini a while ago, and it indeed sounds like a jet when it gets hot. I was not expecting such a little, low-end machine to be so noisy. So, yeah, maybe there are reasons why people worry about stuff like that with new Macs.

    5. Re:A faster horse by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Look up "smcFanControl".

      Apple are, as usual, putting form before function, i.e. a quiet computer instead of a properly cooled one. And when the fans need to be heard it's because the CPU is already close to over-heating.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
  39. enterprise needs easy to remove storage by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    enterprise needs easy to remove storage. Dell and HP let them DESTROY HDD's under warranty as well.

    Just wait for some movie in post production getting leaked out of the apple repair shop when they can't remove the local storage.

    1. Re:enterprise needs easy to remove storage by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      enterprise needs easy to remove storage. Dell and HP let them DESTROY HDD's under warranty as well.

      Just wait for some movie in post production getting leaked out of the apple repair shop when they can't remove the local storage.

      Who does video post on internal hard drives? The Trashcan Mac Pro was notable because it has 6 Thunderbolt ports, to which you connect your disk arrays and perform your work. Thunderbolt is more than fast enough to handle the transfer speed of disk arrays that you'll be using. (After all, the assets of a movie can easily be 500+TB). If your Mac fails, you unplug the disk arrays and plug them into your new Mac.

      And yes, video productions like it because they were using disk arrays already. Thunderbolt arrays are pricey, but available and fast.

  40. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  41. Re:$5,000? by kamapuaa · · Score: 1

    And his forth mistake was not being Christian, and being eternally damned in the afterlife.

    --
    Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
  42. Re:Overpriced by 605dave · · Score: 1

    Well I guess I don't need my Firewire 400 to 800 adaptor anymore.

    --
    Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a difficult battle. - Plato
  43. No it's not all you will get by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    But I suppose it will be all we get.

    Why do you suppose that? Apple has already said they are working on an updated Mac Pro as well. The iMac pro is just for people that want a more contained unit they never messed with.

    In theory we should see the new Mac Pro in 2018, but I'm thinking maybe the end of 2018... but in the meantime if you need more performance from the Mac the iMac Pro seems like a pretty good system.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  44. Re:Good night by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

    For those too lazy to click on the link, the Xeon is 25% and 50% faster on the geekbench single- and multi-threaded benchmarks, respectively. To get an idea of why, the Xeon has twice as much L2 cache and almost three times as much L3 (which is shared among all cores, whereas the Ryzen has theirs split into two halves, so data used on all cores will be more expensive to modify).

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  45. Re:Hahahahaha by pastafazou · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A Dell Precision 5720 All-in-one workstation costs $3900, has a Xeon E3-1245, a 4K 27" display, and Radeon Pro WX 7100 graphics. The video upgrade alone on the iMac is $500. Factor in the better processor and display, and they're very comparable price wise. The iMac Pro also has an A10 coprocessor. I don't think the iMac is overpriced at all, considering what you're getting. Obviously your "mission-critical" servers aren't shipping with a 5K display or a $1000 video card, and probably don't have a 1TB SSD drive either. BTW, I call BS on your 1/20th cost, unless you're buying old off-lease servers.

  46. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  47. don't need wireless in a desktop and reuse screen by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    don't need wireless in a desktop and reuse my screen.

  48. amd has more pci-e lanes so for pci-e storage syst by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    amd has more pci-e lanes so for pci-e storage systems it's better. Hell if not needed to be redundant one system loaded with pci-e disk can power a full VM stack.

  49. Re:Hahahahaha by Moridineas · · Score: 1

    And our workstations cost 1/20th of what these cost.

    1/20 of $4,999. So your workstations cost $250? That's nice.

  50. Re:Overpriced by ctilsie242 · · Score: 1

    This makes a decent dev machine. Especially if one is writing code that uses Vagrant and is tested on multiple VMs (app servers, a DB server, etc.) Something like this can handle the vagrant on/off/destroy cycles with ease, especially if one is prototyping a more complex configuration (DB servers, load balancer, app servers, etc.) If the Vagrant environment tanks, who cares... just drop the VMs and rebuild.

    Even if someone doesn't use that much active VM work, having multiple VMs on the desktop is useful for a business, just for isolation reasons. For example, keeping QuickBooks in its own world to ensure that ransomware on the web browsing VM or even the host has a much less chance of affecting the critical business documents. Until OS makers start offering QubesOS like functionality, this is a good way to maintain security without too much time wasted.

  51. Re:$5,000? by fyngyrz · · Score: 4, Funny

    What's a "forth" mistake?

    Two pops and one push. Or two pushes and one pop.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  52. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

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  53. Re: Cost Justification by akical0118 · · Score: 1

    4k and 8k video, gpus are usually 2-5k

  54. Re: Hahahahaha by Kjella · · Score: 1

    It's fun to call our Chromebooks a "workstation", but traditionally that's not remotely what it means.

    Yeah, traditionally we'd call that kind of computing power a "supercomputer". Unless it has some special hardware for those "technical and scientific applications" like one of those Titan V compute cards I find there's really nothing that makes it a workstation anymore, it's just a high performance general purpose computer. Unless you count ECC RAM as the "workstation" feature...

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  55. Re: Cost Justification by akical0118 · · Score: 1

    Surprising how little slashdot geeks know about 4k video, guess they haven't done more than hobby production

  56. Re:Overpriced by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1

    Very few people have any use for a system like this though

    Wow, that was a sudden relocation of the goalposts.

  57. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

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  58. Re:Hahahahaha by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 2

    And our workstations cost 1/20th of what these cost.

    You workstations cost $250 with a monitor? What kind of work, typing?

  59. HP-Z apples mac pro needs to be kick ass and price by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    HP-Z apples mac pro needs to be kick ass and priced at the same level as Dell and HP pro workstations.

    Starting at $1499 - $1700 (desktop cpu class) (lower end pro / gamer system)

    Starting at $1999 (workstation cpus)

    With choices like
    UP TO High end CPU's (maybe duel) with lower rage video.
    Lower end CPUs starting point with UP TO high end WORKSTATION CARDS (room for duel X2 wide video cards)

    As low as 256GB flash storage (boot / os / apps) with UP TO 4TB-6TB+ 3.5 HDD's storage SAS / SATA at least 2 bays. Can also take SAS / SATA SSD's (costs less then pci-e storage)

    At least 2 M.2 slots with up to 4 slots.

    E-SATA or room to install your own bracket.

    Maybe on board dual sfp+ with an sfp+ to e-net transceiver (some new server boards have SFP+ on board)

  60. You are guessing by sjbe · · Score: 1

    HP-Z apples mac pro needs to be kick ass and priced at the same level as Dell and HP pro workstations.

    Why? People shopping for this machine probably aren't in the market for a Dell or HP. If they wanted a Windows machine they would buy one.

    I have no idea if this new Apple Pro machine will sell well or not. Nor do I really care. But it's hardly inconceivable that it might sell very well. Time will tell if there is a market for it or not. Anyone pretending they know if it will succeed or fail right now is simply guessing.

  61. and clones are better for apple workstations thin by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    and clones are better for apple workstations. Then this thin and looks that apple has been doing.

    The old mac pro tower was ok (hold over from the old g5 that needed the monster heat syncs.) but HP and dell have made cool towers that may not have the best looks but are easy to work on. Also pro users will put up with an loop back cable to route video card DP out to an ADD in TB card.

  62. this was apples idea to replace the mac pro. by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    this was apples idea to replace the mac pro.

  63. high cpu workloads do not need an 8GB video card by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    high cpu workloads do not need an 8GB video card.

    apples start points are too high and like the 2013 mac pro to much on the video side at the base level.

  64. Re:and clones are better for apple workstations th by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    I feel like running a Mac has been nothing but a series of compromises.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  65. Re: Overpriced by samwichse · · Score: 1

    Heck, for that price, I can get a velocitymicro system with dual 16-core Epyc processors, 32gb ram, and onboard 10gigE.

    Got me thinking... maybe it's time to replace my dual 8-core Xeon and dual 16-core Opteron systems.

  66. Harumph by AlanObject · · Score: 1

    Still no touch screen.

    And yes I would use it if it were there. For scroll/zoom if nothing else.

    1. Re:Harumph by GrBear · · Score: 1

      Please keep your fingerprints to your own computer. Nothing screams annoyance than fingerprints on a glossy monitor.

  67. Re:Overpriced by ilsaloving · · Score: 3, Interesting

    WTF, how am I supposed to connect my Zip drive then?

  68. Re:Overpriced by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

    IIRC the joystick connected to a 15-pin game port/midi port. But yes, I had one of those logitech gamepads. It was a good pad.

  69. Re:$5,000? by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

    I like working in government IT. We keep the terrorists from taking away our freedoms.

    You might consider moving into Federal Govt. IT contracting...it can be very profitable.

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  70. Thimk Different by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    Show of hands, please:

    How many of you believe that the people who buy this $5000 iMac will be the same people who actually need a $5000 iMac?

    I'm thinking nah.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  71. Re:$5,000? by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

    I like working in government IT. We keep the terrorists from taking away our freedoms.

    Instead, nowadays, we just have your Overlords to do that...

  72. Re:$5,000? by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

    dup swap pop pop .

  73. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

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  74. Re:$5,000? by Known+Nutter · · Score: 1

    You two are idiots. That's a fake "Creimer" account.

    Pay attention.

    --
    Beware of the Leopard.
  75. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

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  76. Does it have a headphone socket? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    n/c

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  77. Re:Overpriced by gtall · · Score: 1

    added MS crapware, no thanks. Linux might work, except my time is worth more than pfutzing with Linux...no time to delve into that world. Get this, os x costs money to develop.

  78. Not overpriced, but overkill by KayakFun · · Score: 1

    While there will certainly be a few people who will use up all that CPU and graphics power, for many it will be complete overkill.

    One month ago I was offered a job as Drupal web developer, and as all others in this hip startup had Macbooks varying from MacBook 12" to MacBookPro they offered me a fresh MacBookPro too. I declined and said I wanted a PC one-third of that price. Curious, they agreed.

    What did I order? An Intel NUC (half the size a a MacMini), with a Core i3, 16 GB memory and a 256 GB SSD, with a 43" 4k monitor. Running Linux Mint 64bit Cinnamon, the most boring and most productive Linux flavour around. It costs ~EUR 1200. It can't do what this new Mac can do, but I don't have to do that anyway. Like so many Apple fanboys who won't either but will still buy this new Mac. Buying what you need can save you 75% versus what you want. Most of the software you use is Cloud-based, or Linux-capable.

    My 43" monitor is the absolute sweetspot for 4k display. I do not have to zoom in because at this size it's just like 4x 22" HD monitors without the monitor edges cutting up the view. We do our weekly Trello sessions on my system because it feels like a whiteboard with Post-It notes. In PhpStorm it shown me a lot of code lines vertically. That 27" 5k monitor is way too small for that resolution, All-in-ones are not for professionals but for marketing people. But they do not need the processing power in that new Mac. So it will be a commercial success, selling more than twice the amount of units actually needed in this world.

  79. Re:$5,000? by Reaperducer · · Score: 1

    Assuming you're posting from the U.S., get over it. Christmas is a holiday recognized by the federal government. If you choose not to enjoy it, that's your business. But it's not culturally insensitive. You're just culturally intolerant/oversensitive.

    --
    -- I'm old enough to have lived through six different meanings of the word "hacker."
  80. Re:high cpu workloads do not need an 8GB video car by ruddk · · Score: 1

    I have a late 2013 iMac that where I selected the fastest CPU and a GPU with 4 GB RAM. Via iStat I can see that it often uses all the GPU memory when rendering videos.
      I'd rather not buy a new iMac. The old one still performs well with a external RAID cabinet for work files, but now I really hate that I have to replace everything to upgrade the machine.
    Since there's no proper new workstation(and when it comes, I doubt that I can afford it), I have built a Hackintosh with a GTX1080 and a I7-7700K. It seems to render 3 times faster than the old one, all I need is a compatible bluetooth adapter(I use a mouse in one hand and magic trackpad with the other to scroll fast)
    But there's a lot of time wasted getting it to boot the first time, and I'll bet that future updates will break the machine.
    I am guessing in the long run, I will either use Premier Pro(had it not been for the subscription license) or perhaps DaVinci Resolve.
    Oh well, it's just a hobby.

    --
    L'Idiot
  81. Re: Can get an dual AMD EPYC system for $1000 more by Big+Boss · · Score: 1

    I've got a tube on construction adhesive that says it can be!! Just $1000 per machine, I'll glue your box to any TV you want!

  82. Re:Overpriced by Thanatiel · · Score: 1

    My left thumb remembers.

    --
    Irrelevant news and morons using moderation to mod down what they disagree on. 2018 resolution: so long.
  83. Re:Overpriced by rcharbon · · Score: 1

    You can AirPlay your music from your phone to your headphone-enabled iMac Pro. Win!

  84. Re:Overpriced by Megane · · Score: 1

    Thunderbolt 3 USB C port -> Thunderbolt classic adapter -> Firewire 800 adapter -> Firewire 800/400 cable, and if you're really l33t, there is such a thing as a Firewire 400 to SCSI adapter. I have one somewhere, but it got misplaced in a move. Don't forget the SCSI terminator!

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  85. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

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  86. apple just had that root password issue with an by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    apple just had that root password issue with an bad update that had it come it come back after installing it.

  87. Re:Overpriced by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    just get an TB to pci-e cage and a pci-e scsi card

  88. Re:Hahahahaha by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    If all it takes is marketing for a logo and to establish brand loyalty, why haven't companies with superior products done the same and driven Apple out of business?

  89. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

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  90. Re: $5,000? by Brockmire · · Score: 1

    Do you mean 40%? I couldn't find any official stats, just forum posts where they'd say how many were hired on from their class and it was closer to 50%. The reason your friend wasn't accepted without you specifying the reason is suspect.

  91. Buy what suits you by sjbe · · Score: 1

    And if customers ask for a new Mac Pro because they DO know what they want, Apple tells them to fuck off.

    So does every other PC maker. No company can be all things to all people and Apple knows this better than most. Apple has never even pretended to try to accommodate every market niche. If you want something they don't offer then seek it elsewhere. I own some Apple products but I also own several PCs and other non-Apple devices based on what best suits my needs.

    This isn't the 1980's. The PC industry is a mature market, and Macs are not competing with horses, they are competing with other PCs built out of the same damn hardware.

    So if you like something else then buy that. Why is Apple under any obligation to make a product specific to your desires? Just because you think something is a good idea doesn't mean there is enough margin in it for Apple to make it worth their while.

    I bought a Mac Mini a while ago, and it indeed sounds like a jet when it gets hot.

    I have one too. Yes the fan does get louder when under load. Personally I prefer this to throttling the speed of the computer (or worse failure) all other things being equal. In practice it is seldom an issue for me. If it did it a lot I'd buy something faster but 99.9% of the time it's a non issue for me.

  92. All things to all people by sjbe · · Score: 1

    If only they would make the one thing I'm interested in:

    I could say that about nearly every PC maker in addition to Apple. No company can be or should try to be all things to all people. I understand why you want what you want but Apple has never pretended to try to serve every market niche. Users such as yourself who seeking expandibility are comparatively rare and it's pretty clear that they aren't the market segment Apple is targeting.

    The good news is that there are good options out there that aren't from Apple.