Slashdot Mirror
Game Company Receives Complaints About Bad Example Set By '%FEMALENAME' (kotaku.com)
ArenaNet narrative designer Jessica Price was fired last week after she accused a Twitter user of "mansplaining", and adding later "Don't expect me to pretend to like you here." (Her employer characterized this as "attacks on the community.")
So what happened in the week that followed? An anonymous reader writes: A Reddit user indicated he'd been speaking satirically when he posted that "We can probably fire anyone on the GW2 dev team as long we make a big enough stink," and expressed surprise later that no one had disagreed with him. But another female developer told Kotaku she saw a real call to action on 4chan, and that it was followed by angry letters to the game studio she freelances for calling for her firing too, complaining their games had declined since she was hired (along with another woman). The letters also complained her Twitter account set "a bad example for the letter-writer's children, who supposedly play this game." The company's CEO received "a three-digit number's" worth of angry letters -- though "Fifty or so of them glitched out with a lot of variables exposed, including %FEMALENAME."
"A deeper look at the names and emails associated with the letters went to Facebook bot profiles and people whose profiles indicated associations with Gamergate or 4chan," reports Kotaku -- and Brianna Wu made a similar charge on Twitter last week, citing research by a team of volunteers. "The overwhelming majority of people harassing Jessica Price today on Twitter are bots and sock puppets. These are throwaway accounts that are used as toys. Almost no one claiming to be upset is an established, normal Twitter user." The Verge reports that Wu monitored Jessica Price's account, and found harassment "as bad as she's ever seen," blocking at least 600 different accounts.
Another female narrative designer at Arkane Studios says her employer was messaged with a complaint that she'd "verbally abused" a Twitter user -- and discovered a (since-deleted) online petition calling for her firing. And an angry message was also sent to Opaque Space (collaborating with NASA on VR games and training), complaining the company should take responsibility for the "man hating ideals...spread through social media accounts" by their game design lead. "I know MANY people like me, especially women, who have frequent experience with people calling for their employers to fire them for speaking up, speaking out," she posted on Twitter.
The latest furor began with an accusation of mansplaining which a YouTube streamer defended as "my obvious attempt at creating dialogue and discussion", calling it "disheartening" that Jessica Price didn't "correct me in my false assumptions."
So what happened in the week that followed? An anonymous reader writes: A Reddit user indicated he'd been speaking satirically when he posted that "We can probably fire anyone on the GW2 dev team as long we make a big enough stink," and expressed surprise later that no one had disagreed with him. But another female developer told Kotaku she saw a real call to action on 4chan, and that it was followed by angry letters to the game studio she freelances for calling for her firing too, complaining their games had declined since she was hired (along with another woman). The letters also complained her Twitter account set "a bad example for the letter-writer's children, who supposedly play this game." The company's CEO received "a three-digit number's" worth of angry letters -- though "Fifty or so of them glitched out with a lot of variables exposed, including %FEMALENAME."
"A deeper look at the names and emails associated with the letters went to Facebook bot profiles and people whose profiles indicated associations with Gamergate or 4chan," reports Kotaku -- and Brianna Wu made a similar charge on Twitter last week, citing research by a team of volunteers. "The overwhelming majority of people harassing Jessica Price today on Twitter are bots and sock puppets. These are throwaway accounts that are used as toys. Almost no one claiming to be upset is an established, normal Twitter user." The Verge reports that Wu monitored Jessica Price's account, and found harassment "as bad as she's ever seen," blocking at least 600 different accounts.
Another female narrative designer at Arkane Studios says her employer was messaged with a complaint that she'd "verbally abused" a Twitter user -- and discovered a (since-deleted) online petition calling for her firing. And an angry message was also sent to Opaque Space (collaborating with NASA on VR games and training), complaining the company should take responsibility for the "man hating ideals...spread through social media accounts" by their game design lead. "I know MANY people like me, especially women, who have frequent experience with people calling for their employers to fire them for speaking up, speaking out," she posted on Twitter.
The latest furor began with an accusation of mansplaining which a YouTube streamer defended as "my obvious attempt at creating dialogue and discussion", calling it "disheartening" that Jessica Price didn't "correct me in my false assumptions."
Time to out the assholes on 4chan and the spammed impersonating creimer. Make a huge fuss on Reddit and other forums. Make these assholes unemployable.
Payback's a bitch.
I know MANY people like me, especially women, who have frequent experience with people calling for their employers to fire them for speaking up, speaking out
Yeah, #metoo
At least this time it's all been well documented and understood, so that the attacks on these women seem to have ultimately failed and if anything backfired. These kinds of sloppy mistakes with mail merge apps are nothing new, but unfortunately sometimes the messages look genuine to the victim's employer.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
And yet the misogynists on Slashdot are defending this type of behaviour. False accusations are always wrong, yet somehow the men on this site think it's okay to harass and defame women with impunity.
when you use your army of 9 year olds to spam a game company and then spam the upvote system on slahsdot about that event with the same army. ^__^
Is anyone really surprised that identity politics only lead to more and broader generalized hatred?
It's like when all the AOL users got web access and everything old to us was new to them. Why all the attention on forum fights and troll accounts?
Also why do people still bother using twitter?
How many troll armies have been unleashed on the United States, trying to stir up dissent and unrest using tactics like these?
She was fire for insulting the clients, she was not hire to speak garbage in twitter.
All this proves is gamers are fucking idiots who have no lives, the developers included.
She sure appeared to have a massive chip on her shoulder.
Anyway I do think even know what fucking game they're talking about because I have a partner and friends to spend time with in the real world doing real things. Enough of this stupid cyber adolescence.
Attacking others while under employment is indirectly speaking for the company. Doesn't matter if you have a little "my views are expressly mine and not my employers" bullshit in your profile, you're still going to get fired for acting like a prick to people.
It matters not what other things happens before or after, this is still in their image.
The other stuff is pretty though.
There is "speaking up" and "being a cunt to others". 2 wildly different things. This is the latter.
If you can't have constructive talks with others, don't fucking talk. You have a right to be quiet. Use it.
Delete that Twitter app while you are at it. You clearly have no restraint. Make it harder to access by making it only usable through browser.
People think they can act like total fucktards to others and then bitch and moan when it comes back to them deserve what they get. It goes both ways.
Oh no, I used cunt, clearly I'm attacking their sex!!!
Sad thing is I know for a fact someone will reply with this seriously, despite using prick as well as other expletives.
But no, cunt is clearly sexist and I should be ashamed of myself. Fuck off and come back when you have an argument.
These days, it doesn't matter which group you're in, there will be a group targetting you. Be it scammers, hate groups, or trolls. The more you reveal about yourself, your beliefs, and your work... the more you'll be torn into. Also, uninformed people telling you how to do your job has always existed. It very rarely leads to any improvement and instead usually distracts. It all comes down to how you respond. Lashing out on social media just ensures logs exist. Don't give these people ammunition to use against you. Do not encourage them with a response. 'Do not feed the trolls' is a saying for a reason.
Why does this feel like one of the false flags from #gamergate?
These tactics are bad and evil when used by one side, but when the forces of social justice band together to get conservatives silenced or fired, it's ok?
Seems to me they don't like the taste of their own medicine.
P.S. Are you really sure you want to make this woman your test case? I mean, seriously.
Big mouths will always exist.
I remember in my school, they got bullied and harassed as well. Usually with fists in their faces.
Now it's just digital. Digital fists.
People think they have the right to be absolute morons to others and get away with it.
Protip, friends, you don't. People can and will attack you back. Don't come crying to me when they do.
When you do it under employment and TO clients of your employer, expect to get the fucking boot out the front door as well.
The funny bit was her "I'm going to stand up!!" part. Please don't. It'll get you fired again and again.
You got yourself and a colleague fired because your dumb shit.
Clearly you should marry that dude. He wants the V.
Jessica, dude, stop. Having a big mouth wins you nothing.
Just like make game and delete your twitter instead.
I have no sympathy for big mouths screaming "i'm getting attacked!" when almost every single time it is them starting it. This is absolutely the case here.
The other stuff less so, the botted emails, that shit is scummy. But this, absolutely.
Given the trend to hoax responses like this, history suggests that the "attacks" are damage control. Whatever slight this was against them, a sloppy "harassment campaign" would only serve to benefit the targets - as they could point to the variable names and incidental joiners-on as a call to harass ArenaNet.
"Forget the engineers." -Carly Fiorina, briber of MIT Technology Review.
I made a decision some time ago:
Anything that is merely being said, and not experienced by my own senses, is not real life. All it does, is make you feel bad, about something that is so far out of your control, that you literally cannot even tell if it is real.
Then I noticed, how much of it actually completely does not exist in my world.
All those "wars"...
raging feminist vs neckbears or whatever
americans vs russians
refugees vs nazis
christians vs muslims
you name it.
They were just not happening in *real life*.
And even the rare cases that did happen, like PeTA vs homo sapiens or hipstards on fixies vs people without crossed " good" amd "bad" wires... I noticed how their over the top intense emotions,on both sides, were always exclusively fueles by what they had read and heard.
Never by personal exeriences!
So fuck all that shit! It isn't real!
The only thing that I experienced for real, is "people" being passive-thinking swarm drones of some asshole opinion makers.
But the solution is simple: They do not want to be people, but limbs/tools of a bigger swarm body ... So let's actually take them seriously on that and not see them as people anymore. See the swarms as people!
(No, you sick fucks, that does not mean you can treat them badly, like when warmongerers say the enemy are not people! You would not cut somebody's limb because the limb itself is not a person, would you?)
So I guess the heads of those bad swarms are the only problem. Those need fixing.
Would anyone really name the variable %FEMALENAME other than a a troll *intentionally* exposing that variable name to achieve their goal of creating anger/outrage?
(If there really are genuine enraged misogynists trying to drive women out of gaming with attacks like this, wouldn't they be more likely to use a profanity, or something like 'feminazi'?)
...quit blaming your female rejections on women. It's like blaming the driver of the car that hit you because you decided to cross the street when you weren't supposed to while playing your Pokémon Go.
Tired of my customary (Score:1)
The dude was perfectly polite in his question. She just went off on him because she obviously knows better as SHE is the dev and he's just a player, that she's doesn't have to explain why he's so wrong that warrants her going off on him and basically called him sexist for bringing her gender into the mix(which he NEVER did, she assumed it herself, it was NEVER a gender issue yet she keeps on repeating it was.)
This whole thing is ridiculous and all stemmed from that one awful dev, the same one who said she was glad Totalbiscuit was dead (you may not like him, but ffs, that's not something you say about someone that died of cancer and wasn't a criminal).
It was never a mansplaining or a gender issue, the gender of the dev was never bought into this other than by herself to "justify" her actions.
She deserved to be fired, this is no way to conduct yourself. A dev online is like a clerk in a store, you represent your company regardless of whether or not you put a disclaimer saying "the views expressed here are your own and bla bla bla".
Don't like it? Don't respond, simple as that. No one forced her to reply to him in such a manner.
Live by manufactured fake public outrage, die by manufactured fake public outrage.
I don't have any sympathy.
A wise man once said "You reap what you hoe".
If you don't want gamers, customers, whatever to comment on your twitter messages, don't add your place of work to your profile.
Don't advertise where you work, what you do, and don't go posting long blogs about what is going on at the company.
Once you start doing that, it becomes a company twitter page.
What's more, what the fuck do you expect when you post this shit publicly? Why are you posting if you don't want replies?
No, these attention whores want to increase in followers that comes from bragging about their place of work, but none of the consequences.
I was involved with Gamergate back when it was actually a thing; people who complain of it doing anything for the past two years are essentially jumping at shadows. There are far more than enough of "us" than would ever need to falsify anything to be heard. "We" also don't really do anything about it these days except get mad on Twitter. The shitty old games journalism sites we hate are all hanging by a thread at this point, so mission accomplished.
The PC obsessed devs who still complain about GG have always also complained about the industry; apparently even though there are alot of women working on games to be able to complain about it, there is still significant cause for complaint. Maybe they're actually not full of shit about their work environment. In fact, they should probably look closer at that than their putative customer base. People who are concerned with these sorts of issues tend overwhelmingly to love a good backstab more than anything else. It wouldn't be unprecedented for one of them to try to resolve some nasty office politics by putting on this boogeyman's mask.
Except that Gamergate topics are banned on sight which lead to a large exodus that I was a part of. It's either one nut and/or someone with minimal programming experience (about the level of a narrative designer perhaps, but I have no proof) falseflagging for sympathy as those ebil goobergonkers.
As a side note, I wonder how long they'll be crying "sexism", that a woman who slept with reviewers, had people dare to call out this conflict of interest?
Just because you have a vagina doesn't mean you can be a jerk without retribution.
1) We still have misogyny on the Internet when the 'net community should really be leading humanity's evolution away from such primitive thought patterns as "man lead, woman follow." If you wish to imagine the stone-age intonation there, feel free. It was intentional. Come on, people, we have the world's knowledge at our fingertips. Surely a little research into why these attitudes have no place in our society isn't that onerous. Livelihood taken away simply for reacting once to what was probably a recurring theme throughout her career? What does that say about us, really? We're barely down from the sodding trees.
2) Exactly how much of your soul does your employer own these days? At what point does one legitimately say to one's manager "Go piss up a rope, I'm a sovereign individual. What I do in the café to which I manage to stagger in order to get the caffeine fix I need to make it the rest of the way home after 22 hours of crunch-time coding to meet your unreasonable expectations, inflexible release schedule and poor planning is my own affair."
Resistance is futile. Reactance buggers it up.
It's time for a campaign of emails to the Slashdot management. Posts like the parent are being spammed in one article after another. There are dozens of these posts each day, not one of which contributes to the discussion in a useful way.
There are a couple of ways to deal with this rampant spam. One is to simply.flag each of the posts is abuse whenever you see them. If the management gets tired of seeing lots of posts legitimately flagged as abuse perhaps they'll curtail the spam.
The other is to document these posts with links, then send an email to feedback@slashdot.org indicating your frustration with the rampant spam. While Slashdot management doesn't answer many of the emails they receive, a large number of emails might prompt a response.
Finally, it's worth replying to whipslash whenever you see him post and bringing this to his attention directly. Let him know you're tired of seeing these spam posts disrupting the discussion in what seems like every single article at times.
The lameness filter was modified to silence GNAA and APK spam, though it's not totally gone. There's no reason the lameness filter can't be adjusted to eliminate many of these spam posts, too. They are becoming far too rampant and disruptive. Replying to the trolls and telling them to stop has no effect and seems to encourage them to spam more.
The only solution is to insist that Slashdot management put an end to these posts. The three approaches I discussed should be somewhat effective in making it harder to ignore this problem.
I don't care who is responsible for these posts. I do want these posts to stop before they pollute Slashdot discussions even more.
Perhaps the management of these game companies should stop pandering to anonymous mysoginists? That way, it disempowers the mysoginists rather than the women who work for the companies. I'm naively assuming that these companies want to hire and retain women.
Worse, he gave *positive* encouraging feedback. Exactly the type companies want. I say, "He" but the name doesn't indicate male or female. Perhaps she ranted at a women for all I know. Either way it was bad. Then she double down on it publicly on Reddit, and it became a much much worse, a big problem for the company, to the extent they couldn't ignore it.
And she got fired, the CEO explained to her personally why, and she took that even badly, suggesting he sacked her personally to gloat. When I read it, that he thought highly enough to sack her personally, and explain why.
Serious personality issues.
As to the rest of this shit:
"But another female developer told Kotaku she saw a real call to action on 4chan, and that it was followed by angry letters to the game studio she freelances for calling for her firing too, complaining their games had declined since she was hired (along with another woman)."
A targetted letter aimed at a particular woman, yet supposidly a generic template with %FEMALENAME in the template as if its a generic letter sent about all women to every studio?
And %FEMALENAME, not just %NAME?? The word 'FEMALE" in there to back up the agenda claim. That doesn't ring true, and a google search does nothing to back it.
So I think this is just bullshit.
Jessica Price could be *Jeffry* Price for all it matters, he would still need to be sacked for that behavior.
"Was only speaking Satirically" = "It's just a joke, lighten up". The classic capper to a round of bullying, trying to delegitimize the grievances of the bullied.
Could this thing be re-written so that it makes a bit more sense? Its like several disjointed story lines melded into an incoherent whole.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
The topic of discussion and the depth and quality of the subsequent commentary gives me great hope for the future. My hope is that arthropods are back at the top of the food chain again. And the way this discussion and ecological changes are going, they have a good chance. I for one hail our new lobster overlords.
Just the washing instructions on life's rich tapestry
While I'm not going to deny the possibility that some people would go out and have fun at Jessica Price's expense after this whole ordeal, I'm having trouble figuring out which board would have allowed the discussion about it to begin with. The boards involving tech and video games tend to be more liberal leaning and wouldn't tolerate attacks on women in the work place, especially a call to action via email or Twitter, and the boards that might get joy throwing fuel into the fire would have the threads deleted. So where would this have even taken place? Topping it all off it's impossible to say whether or not they themselves created the threads trying to cause trouble.
Some idiot brings gender into a discussion on the internet. We don't hate you because you're a woman, we hate you because you're trying to get in our face about being a woman. On the internet. Where you aren't a woman. You're a collection of bytes. Bytes don't have a gender. So shut the fuck up already.
It's not really funny how feminists have been having the opposite effect with their idiotic methodologies. Feminists have good intent but their methods and strategies are all shit. Sex-negative feminists especially are the Westboro Baptist Church equivalents, common puritanism included.
The best example is the war against sexualization and "objectification" with gamers. There is not a single study which supports the idea that sexualizing women in video games leads to the creation of rapists, mainly because gamers are stuck at their homes releasing their frustrations and steam through their massive abundance of hobbies and mediums which also take a shitload of their lifespan and attention to be able to care about real women.
The end result turned out like this:
Feminists only made a bunch of gamer nerds who are non-rapists mad and angry, while the male feminists born out of this conflict turned out to be the rapists.
A look at the recent few years show disproportionately that male feminists are the only ones being outed as rapists, NeoGAF owner as an example.
Feminists alienated a benign collective while in the process creating their own rapists. This is a sign of poor strategy, poor thinking, and poor ideology, which only damaged the innocent but resolved no problems. The innocent were feminists who fucked themselves over and gamer nerds who were at peace in their caves being prodded and undermined by a misplaced belief and concept among feminists. It's a pretty fucked up situation.
It's fucked up to the point that Feminism has managed to alienate Centrists and Moderate Liberals. That's already a sign of an urgent need of restructuring, purging some concepts, and repair of feminism which is obviously a leaking boat filled with electrical wires whipping everywhere.
That's not remotely how I read it, AmiMoJo. A game writer went "oh look what I have to put up with just because I'm female", which wasn't remotely an issue right up until she (and nobody else!) made it one. That's not "being a bit rude", that by now has become deeply identity-politicised and, to borrow a term from the SJW crowd, is toxic behaviour.
Predictable AmiMoJo predictably tries to give it a predictable spin. My sole reaction is "oh right, you too."
And yeah, if you stir up shit like that, then you stir up 4chan trolls and other infantile lowlife scum. Birds of a feather, etc.
What bugs me the most about this whole debacle is that online journalism is still trying to support Jessica a week after it happened and say that this is not how employees should be let go, yet when the Subnautica sound designer got fired months ago, online journalists seemed to encourage and support the firing: https://kotaku.com/subnautica-dev-fired-over-hateful-statements-1822746373
If you don't want mob rule to get game developers fired, you've got to oppose it in all circumstances, not accept it when it fires someone you don't like, and then chastise it when it fires someone you do like.
Oh man, too much. If you, %LONELYINDIVIDUAL do this to a wrong person, they will find your %HOMEBASE and make it belong to %THEM. Just too much, dude.
I have been following this since it started. I have yet to see any evidence whatsoever of the '%FEMALENAME' letters that are being referenced in blogs, social media, etc. Until I see a pastebin, photocopy, or something published by an actual company who received it, I'm filing that under "shit-that-never-happened".
The facts in this that we KNOW to be true are as follows. 1: Price received some feedback she didn't like. 2: She got offended over nothing and reacted badly. 3: She and a colleague were fired.
In the real world, a business' bread-and-butter are its customers. (This is doubly true for entertainment related businesses) Treat them badly, and your business suffers. Treat them badly a lot and do it publicly, it suffers seriously. GW2 was hemorrhaging players already and Ms. Price's writing was likely playing a part. I uninstalled it about 6 months ago myself after playing for years.
Why can't we go back to using jumpers to configure slot adapter cards? Why? I say!
Seeing how many of them were springing up to defend price, and seeing how easy it is for anybody, male, female, whichever , to set up a fake email campaign and make it look like a badly organized MRA thing, and we know that both side at some point not only boasted they were doxing the other side, but some troll also boasted he made both side fight harder... I am watching such pretend campaign with a wary eye. It could be male incel idiot trully wanting to fire female, it could be troll seeing the great way to shit everywhere and make people reacts, or it could be feminist seeing a great occasion to muck things up by pretending being MRA sending letter. Who knows ? Nobody unless you really catch the one doing it and check what was their reason for it.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
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visit randi.org
Women's privilege, which lets women do and say things men cannot, must end in a time of equality. And trying to pin the problem on men is just more of what I call cherchez l'home, or search for the man behind the woman's bad behavior, speech, or attitude. If you cannot turn the genders around and find the speech and behavior acceptable, it isn't acceptable, period. And what man can make up words and phrases to attack women? We can't without the same kind of consequences she is having. It is time for equality to mean equality, not equality and special privileges.
E Proelio Veritas.
She couldâ(TM)ve agreed to disagree professionally and left it at that. Ignored further inquiries or insults. But no, sheâ(TM)s a triggered child and had to lash out as a representative of her company.
I work for one of the largest healthcare industry companies in the world and while we are encouraged to be participate on social media, we are not allowed to argue with others or defend the company other than offering to report complaints. I comment on my companyâ(TM)s posts, but I donâ(TM)t respond to other people even if itâ(TM)s positive as shit can get so twisted.
Chewbacon
The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
'Jessica Price was fired last week after she accused a Twitter user of "mansplaining"' No she wasn't forced for "mansplaining": ref:
'After a long AMA on the Guild Wars 2 Reddit, Jessica Price; a writer for ArenaNet, went on to Twitter to post a 25-part essay on how she comes up with stories, and what is relevant as far as stories in todays MMO's. (Very rough synopsis, quite a good read.)
After posting the essay, many community members chimed in to thank Price on sharing her views, and how insightful the read was, with one very popular community member; who has his own NPC inside of Guild Wars 2, commenting on the essay hoping to be able to start a civil and polite conversation with, one of his favorite writers. (He denotes this in his Twitch stream before the Twitter debacle)
The attempt however at starting a polite and civil conversation with the ArenaNet Writer, ended in Price slandering and defaming the community member as a sexist who is trying to mans-plain the job to her, even after the community member apologized for trying to start a civil conversation. (Community member posted a total of 2 Replys to Price, the first being the initial polite conversation starter, the second the apology for attempting communication.)
The next day on July 5th (This all occurred on July 4th), ArenaNet's CEO Mike O' Brian released a statement on a Guild Wars 2 Reddit post stating that Jessica Price and another ArenaNet member have been fired for harassment of an community member, when no such harassment was necessary.'
"[S]he lost her job and bares no responsibly for the mob...]
Oh? Then what did she bare?
Learn to spell, moran.
A tempest in a teapot.
Let me "mansplain" that nobody gives a fuck.
And that goes for both genders. For some reason, many female sexists were not seen as sexist and that is stopping now. Good.
Maybe we can stop listening to these people altogether, regardless of form, size of shape. Same for racists. It is always only about elevating themselves and putting down others.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
BTW, editor, I'm pretty sure that title makes more sense as:
Game Company Receives Complaints About Bad Example Sent By '%FEMALENAME'
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
Slashdot users LOVE what those trolls did.
That's a very long post about Price, but she lost her job and bares no responsibly for the mob that used her firing to instigate an attack on other random women.
"Bears", and while she's not responsible for the mob's actions, certainly her actions (and not her being) turn out to have been the trigger for a mob of idiots to go on harassing other women. While I don't condone any of this, it's fairly clear why it happened: Someone threw oil on what turns out to have been a smoldering fire. And now it burns. Whoops.
It's a bit like dropping a smoldering cigarette butt in a dry forest. Many times it'll just go out. Sometimes, even if you stamp it out then walk away, might still cause the entire forest to burn down. If you know the forest is dry, even lighting up a ciggie there is criminally irresponsible. (Hard to grasp concept for some. How about you?)
The real problem here is not one person who was punished for some rude tweets,
For some identity politics-flavoured toxic tweets. It was well beyond mere rudeness. Which explains (but doesn't justify, thanks) the counter-trolling. But I see you mostly post to make your spin stick. Again, "oh, it's AmiMoJo again. Oh well."
it's we have a mob attacking people because of their gender.
That's actually not quite correct. The mob is trolling to see if they can get people fired, which happens to be aimed at females because the trigger happens to be female. If she'd been male then the barrage of bot-complaints would've been against male game designers. I know it's not on your agenda to admit this, but I'll point it out to you anyway.
It's important to publicize it and develop countermeasures so that there are not more victims.
Knowing what's going on ought to be enough. If your employer would fire you without first talking through the complaints then you're better off not working for that employer. In an internet age employers cannot afford to let their valuable human capital up and vanish because some random troll sent a truckload of automated complaints over, well, nothing. If they succumb, the company eventually succumbs.
It would also be great if we could understand the people behind this and their motivations. Some people want to write it off as general trolling, like it's some innate property of the internet that just happens spontaneously, but there is a years old pattern of attacks on women specifically with deeply misogynistic motivations.
Go hang out on 4chan and report your findings, there's a good little researcher.
To be clear: 4chan has "a years old pattern of attacks" against just about anyone, everyone, regardless of any single thing. They'll hate you just so they have an excuse to hate you, until their attention span runs out and then they'll hate something else for a while.
Again, not on your agenda to admit it, but 4chan's history is pretty clear to just about everyone else here.
The most ironic part being that on IRC now even if people are just cybering and never planning to meet, there are still the asl idiots (who have been around since irc existed in the 80s/90s) demanding those details rather than just having fun and then going their separate ways.
The most trustworthy name on the internet...
to address inequality? Racism and Sexism really are things. It's not like we've eliminated them completely from human thought and we can just go on our way. Just having laws against racial and sexual discrimination is technically 'identity politics'. Sure, you can take it too far (there's lots of whack jobs on the left and the right wing media spends an unhealthy amount of time reminding us of them) but when somebody's a racist or sexist you don't stop pointing out they're racist or sexist just because a few whack jobs want to cut everybody's dicks off.
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I'm assuming you're in your 40s. Maybe 50s or 60s. The reason why there was no gender was it was 99% white guys. The reason for that is, well, there weren't a lot of minorities in technology because especially 20-30 years ago (especially if you're old enough to remember BBS) minorities were in even worse shape than they were today and they didn't have a lot of access to tech, especially the expensive tech from the 90s (anyone remember building a 486 DX100 in 1995 for $400+ and being amazed at how "cheap" it was?). As for women, well, the places I hung out weren't exactly friendly to them. Lots of "Locker room" talk; which to be blunt was mostly thinly veiled misogyny from nerds (which I'm embarrassed to say my younger self took part in).
/.) are full of bitter old coots like me and, well, we're just not as much fun to be around.
Tech got cheap. Really cheap. Like, I can get a laptop online for about $100. $250 if I want a nice new one. $50 if I'll settle for a desktop. Also, the internet became a global communication tool and software was written to get non-nerds online. Finally, the old nerd caves (like
On the plus side you've got a _lot_ more folks online. A lot of those folks are helpful and good folks. I've been able to do tons of projects thanks to them.
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they're typically well known people at game studios. What's more, the ones in this story are being targeted for their gender. They're not just a collection of bytes. They're not anonymous /. posters. They're employees at a company expected to function in a customer service role. They can't "shut the fuck up". It's literally their job to engage with and talk with the community. The only way they can "shut the fuck up" is if they leave the industry, which, well, seems to be the goal here....
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Jessica Price is a tool. The people trolling her and others are also tools. Tools beget tools.
There's really nothing else to the story. Yes, there's the facade of sexism/racism that's become endemic to practically every conversation we have today (for the worse), but that just seems to be a way for tools like Jessica Price to justify being a tool.
Jessica (and her ilk) are clearly just toxic people. There's always been toxic people in the world, but we haven't until recently had a socially acceptable way of being toxic. Today it seems that whenever you can identify an "ism" (sexism, racism, etc), you have some sort of god given right to become a toxic ass-hat to whomever is being accused of the ism. They invented a whole new set of slurs to identify the ism offenders, or defend whatever the anti-ism people believe. Mansplaining, microagressions, trigger warnings, violating "safe spaces", etc. Other toxic people all chime in, creating an anti-ism circle jerk of hate. Then the other "anti-anti-ism" people chime in to try to "correct" the anti-ism people. Rinse, repeat.
All this seems to do is create MORE toxicity, not less. The identity politicians of the left, and now increasingly of the right now only seem to destroy the very thing they think they're saving, themselves and everyone around them. Everyone just starts to hate everyone else just a little bit more as they dig deeper and deeper into themselves and their own little tiny self.
Is it really a surprise? The more you start to think about your own little group, the less you think about everyone who isn't you. Some people seem to want to so narrowly define themselves they seem to forget that anyone else outside their own group even matters. Hate breed hate. We seem to have forgotten that.
It's terribly upsetting to me. It's even more terribly upsetting that this is largely coming from "the left". This attitude is ANYTHING but liberal. It's fascist. Liberal is _supposed_ to mean an acceptance of people. not this toxic rejection of anyone and anything that doesn't fit into your world view that's taken hold. The extreme left and the extreme right have itself around in the political spectrum, and become nearly one in the same. Call it libro-con neo-facism.
Can't we just build a bunch of rockets and send these people off into deep space? Then they can fight each other to their hearts content in and endless battle for Justice. Just tell them we're doomed, and send them off to Mars. On second thought, Mars isn't far away enough. How about the Andromeda galaxy?
This article actually leaves in sufficient facts to contradict the narrative.
The reason that the reddit user "speaking satirically" comes up is that Polygon was pretending they had found someone who actually believed that, but Polygon accidentally linked to the post where he admits his post was fake. This demonstrates that Polygon knew that the post they linked to was a fake post from their own side, but they deliberately used it anyway as clickbait.
Furthermore, the claim that "nobody disagreed with him" is a voted into the negatives and deleted. Voting things down is often used to express disagreement.
The slashdot post is written poorly because it's trying to avoid admitting these things, because "the supposed misogyny among gamers is a false flag operation" contradicts the narrative.
These people are "the left" as much as the kkk is "the right".
Nobody likes these people and all her friends who also get harassment are fellow internet warriors.
.. children! Sigh. Behave!
It's eating its own.
The stories I could tell you about her... Oh, I actually already did.
Since when does Slashdot report on and even wade into internet troll drama? Please. I dunno about other /. users, but I for one do NOT care about this. This isn't even news, it's just tabloid gossip talk. Get this off of here.
Not because of her groin. If she had NOT been a dick she would not have been fired. Talking about your work on-line and the getting pissy about criticism and calling people chauvinist pigs right of the bat IS bad PR.
No one knew or cared WHAT you were, just WHO you were.
Actually, I always got the sense that nobody cared who you were, just that your ideas were good ones. In the early days of Slashdot, there were a lot of really smart people commenting on the stories with a lot of interesting insight to add. Now, every third post seems to be by an AC with a IQ of 80 who feels a need to share their opinion with the world. Articles about quantum computing end up degenerating into Hillary and Trump mud slinging fights. Oh, Intranets.....
The Internet really went downhill in the 90s when companies like AoL were trying to get everyone in the world online for $14.95 a month. Now the Internet is a pretty good reflection of humanity in general, and it shows.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Was a Republican shill in her former identity's political life.
For all we know they're pushing the 'left' to 'far left' with these identity politics stunts to help convince moderates to side with conservative politics. The further left the left is, the less right the right seems, even the extreme right. Really a brilliant tactic from a gay Bush Sr.-supporting 'former' republican.
was a complete lack of tact.
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and the same level, but without the bit about "mansplaining" would she have lost her job? It's a bit hard to say because she's been a bit of an ass in the past. But I'm not entirely convinced that without the backlash from the opposition to the #metoo movement that she couldn't have just held out until everything blew over.
Also I can't help but wonder if this had been a bit of sexism from a man (so long as it didn't stray into sexual harassment) if we wouldn't see a lot of defenders arguing that so long as he did his job well it's fine; maybe suggesting he take a class or two in anger management...
I guess my point is, rudeness isn't what got her fired, angry men were. Now, feel free to continue arguing whether they have a right to be angry. Maybe they do, but OTOH there are probably better things to get angry about.
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You don't get to pick the parts of equality that you want. You get them all.
I look at this like Aladdin and wishing to be the genie. You wanted everything someone else had, well, you get the shackles that come with it.
Going to get a bit of a wake up call, the grass isn't as green as you thought it was on the other side, except for the 1%.
Sorry, but there is no foundation for this story. It's made up and the typical anti-gamer outlets have continued to push it without any evidence.
Also, Arenanet didn't fire Price because of this. They also fired another guy who had been there for thirteen years and he has confirmed this.
Quit buying into this bullshit. Game journalists are lying fucking hacks as has been evidenced over and over again. Stop promoting their bullshit.
Also, quit with the "hurr hurr life is hard they tried to get me fire don the internet". Guess what? That's what SJWs do fucking NONSTOP. Say something someone disagrees with on twitter? CALL THEIR EMPLOYEE AND GET THOSE FUCKERS FIRED!
You all need to fucking grow up. Just because some dipshit voted for trump or doesn't support gay marriage (even in fucking 2018), I'm not going to call their boss or tweet their boss and tattle on them. Who fucking cares if they have a different view point than me? Good for them and shit.
If you give the anonymous mob what it wants - attention - expect more of them. The social, near primal need to 'group up' in response to threats from women does them no favors online. If the mob targets a man, he will whine and complain and give them only so much attention. But he will never paint a target across all men and say 'look what we have to deal with[as men]'.
You might want to stop dragging every other woman into bullshit you caused yourself as an individual, because you'll never outnumber the anonymous mob.
Price wasn't a victim. She was the abuser over and over and over again. Now. she wants to rewrite history by having her SJW friends spread propaganda, lies and outright misinformation to paint a different narrative. Anet is a very liberal company. Price was a toxic feminist. She's never once apologized to her victim.
I share in many sentiments on what I've read here in response. But, the company should not have fired her. It's backing down to mob mentality at the end of the day- And that sort of behaviour needs to be stood up to no matter what side you support. Besides, Hasn't Arena Net heard? On a macro-level, outrage is so commonplace it's starting to become ineffective.
Looked up your links.
lolcow.wiki looks like a wiki dedicated to articles of the nature you describe: "the main stream media is all wrong about this." I love how the Brianna Wu page has, as citations, links to comments on sites such as knowyourmeme and twitter. At least one of the links to FBI FOIA results (a more creditable citation) is cited misleadingly, claiming it shows something that it doesn't actually show.
Some highlights from that page:
- Nonetheless, Wu retweeted it as if it were credible.
- Brianna Wu nonetheless tweeted it as a legitimate threat.
- but Brianna Wu claimed they were legitimate all the same
Yeah, I don't think your links show anything more than "someone said it on the internet". Sorry. But feel free to provide creditable citations! I'm always willing to listen.
Good one bro, now the ladies will see how much we respect them, and we get to crush allot more puss.
Well yeah, evolutionarily speaking, wearing one's misogyny on one's sleeve is probably not the most effective mating strategy. It's kind of reassuring that "whiney assed tech bros" are being selected against ...
She's never once apologized to her victim.
She should, at least, be made to pay for all the psychotherapy the poor victim who suffered her unprecedentedly vicious and callous attack will need to undergo! She literally could not have hurt him more if she carved him up with butchers knives. Women are so scary the way the use words.
Remember guys: "Sticks and stones may not break my bones, but words will surely maim me."
And the "lets say it's all bad" is trying to INCLUDE the one who claims "but but but but WIMMEN GET HARASSED!!!". So your target is entirely wrong.
This would be like black peole saying that black lives matter, then others coming along and saying but blue lives matter (the distraction) then YOU complaining that me saying "all lives matter, right?" as a presage to "So blacklives matter too, yes? So why does it seem like they don't?"
Because trumpwill fuck you over harder than any politically infantile moron than amijojo here would while fucking over amijojo. It would be like releasing antrax into the city you live in to get back at some bankers or skinheads. You live there too and will be fucked over hard, and you enjoying it as long as they get fucked over too is kinda sick.
Your claim is also complete and utter bollocks.
People didn't vote trump, they just didn't vote hillary. Still more voted for her than trump. trump did not win, hilary lost. The republicans would have voted in a rancid cowturd as long as the cowturd vowed to undo all the work of "that ni gger in the whitehouse", they lost their collective shit when a black man got in charge of the country, and still haven't recovered.
Nope, progressives are not "demanding equality of outcome", and that moronic screed from the RWNJ echo chamber never once had a source of even vague rationality. The compalint seeded from the communism strawman argument: "from each according to their means, to each according to their needs", which was the previous RWNJ complaint, but "according to their needs" is NOT equality of outcome. Didn't stop you nutjobs claiming it, though.
Like price and her "mansplaining" YOU have to do the same thing and decide that %CURRENT_BAD_THING is due to an entire group, and YOU double (literally) down with making it TWO completely unrelated groups: Progressives as well as the hoary old chestnut of "SJW".
Tell me, moron, how do you feel when I call you a racist KKK bigot? Bad? But they're rightwingers and YOU'RE a rightwinger, so they're all the same. What? They aren't rightwing, they're the KKK and anithetical to conservative values? Well so what, idiot, "SJW"s (a term defined to BE "those who do these things that are objectively bad" hence they are bad people even if you can't find anyone IN that set) are not progressives and fight against that. SJWs are authoritarian left. Progressives are liberal left.
Fucking moron.
No, YOU bring up this idiotic claim because SHE made the sexist comment and SHE should not, so SHE should have STFU. If it had been HE made the sexist comment and HE should not, so HE should have STFU, where would your complaint be now? The only reason why SHE should shut up is because the moron being sexist and abusive was a woman.
No other reason.
Granted, ArenaNet is a dumpsterfire, but this is the shit you choose to discuss?
Not ANet shoving spyware into Guild Wars 2?
The premise is if a women explains something that is AWESOME.
If a man explains something, that is INSENSITIVE.
People should keep using the word "mansplain" so I can tell who the sexists and SJWs (but I repeat myself) are.
Where do these dweebs even find the time? Between harassing women with bots and pretending misandry is real on slashdot, it must be tricky to get a chance to just relax and jerk off to hentai rape scenes.
At which point you will rename yourself..."remoteshellfish"?
Lol once again both parties have embraced their fringe. Why? I have no fucking clue "energize the base" maybe?
If that's the case it means all these lunatics, the SJWs, the trumpers, for all their noise don't normally get off their asses and vote. Oh plus she burned her bridges with half of the far left by fucking over bernie. Who was my first choice but even so he was fringe enough that I hoped the rest of the government would moderate his more out there moments.
In hillary's case she embraced small activist groups who collectively manage to piss at least everyone off. They made great soundbites for fox too.
In the case of the republicans they're completely ran by lunatics to the point that they have taken over the party and won't settle with patronizing pats on the head anymore, play ball or gtfo.
I don't understand her at all, as an establishment candidate you'd think she'd be doing everything she could to keep radicals from taking taking over the DNC the way it's taken over the GOP.