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Apple Makes G4s Slower
Aigeanta writes "According to MacInTouch, Apple just reduced the processing speed of G4s by 50Mhz, without a price reduction or change in configuration, and cancelled all outstanding orders. If you still want one, you have to reorder with a slower processor. "
I'd suggest waiting - I have a feeling the blame should go to Motorola in this case. They've brought in IBM to fill the gaps so hopefully things will be back to normal soon (ie. before the end of the year, or early after).
:|
This does suck, though.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
- Jeff
While I'm quick to respond when people here make clueless statements about Apple -- which doesn't happen nearly so much as it used to -- Cupertino has really screwed up on this one. It may not be their fault that Moto can't deliver G4s fast enough, or that RAM prices have gone up dramatically, but there are much better ways to do it than take it out of the hide of the customer.
The minimal thing to do would have been to offer the 500Mhz customers the opportunity to buy either a 450Mhz config or their original config with a 450 at a reduced price. If a price increase was absolutely necessary they should have grandfathered existing orders.
The sad thing is, they could have built up a lot of consumer goodwill by "doing the right thing" -- with the iBook and the new iMac they are going to have an extremely good Christmas season anyway. They could have coped with making a little less money and reinforcing their customer loyalty. Unfortunately, this seems to happen less and less with publicly traded companies.
It may also indicate that Apple is having problems with their new G4 motherboard. they are now only offering 350 and 400 MHz G4 systems these are probably the old G3 motherboard.
Isn't speculation without bothering to do any research or consideration of what an article says wonderful?
The fact is that nothing has changed except the speed reduction of 50 MHz. There are still three models in the G4 product line, not two 350 (old motherboard) and 400, 450 (new motherboard).
Apple has not changed anything else in the G4 product family.
I think this story is slipping under the radar of the NYT, Reuters, AP, etc., b/c they don't really understand what it means -- esp. what it means to Apple loyalists.
Let's say Microsoft announced Windows 2000, and Windows 2000 Special Edition, and the SE version was $100 more, but 50% faster. They have a big event saying, "We've broken new ground with the speed and features of Windows 2000 SE". They accept thousands of orders for it, and then, a month later, say "Sorry, but to all of you people who ordered Windows 2000 SE, we're actually going to send you regular old Windows, 50% slower, but we're still going to charge you the same price."
The differences b/t that and what Apple just did are negligible.
www.macnn.com just reported that Apple has REVERSED the cancellation policy. So if you had an order that was cancelled, don't give up hope!
"The number of suckers born each minute doubles every 18 months."
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Wakko Warner asked,
;-)
>How do you "Apple fanatic" people put up with
>this shit? Intel hardware is pretty disgusting,
>but at least you don't have to deal with this
>kind of bait-and-switch crap.
I put up with it like I put up with it from every other vendor: by never buying Rev 1.0 anything, so I am not bothered by these Sawtooth-y issues.
Oh, and "screwdriver shops" do the bait-and-switch all the time. A newspaper, telephone, and a few visits will confirm this.
Now, I agree Apple should have handled this better, but nothing short of giving away free computers or Lewinskys will satisfy *some* people
Perhaps it may just be that I have to go to an Economics class soon, but it seems to me this is just plain economics. I still don't agree that they should have canceled the orders for the non-500Mhz machines, but raising the prices does make sense economically.
First, the 500Mhz machine will not be available as soon as was previously thought. Those orders I could see the reason for canceling. This will likely make those who wanted the 500Mhz to get the 450Mhz. The demand for the other machines goes up, and the supply stays the same. In a market economy, that means that in order to avoid a shortage and satisfy the consumer and supplier, the equilibrium price must go up.
The reason why prices typically go down in the computer industry is simple also. A faster machine is introduced, which will reduce the demand for the slower ones. That would then decrease the equilibrium price of the slower machines.
Is there anything in this post which does not make sense?
You see? It's like I've always said. You can get more with a kind word and a 2x4 than you can with just a kind word.
did anyone see those commercials. They give the impression they have the fastest processor around, when in fact they probably run as fast as my outdated pIII 450
>Every one seems to love the idea that Apple dropped the ball with this new chip but hey, where is Intel's new chip? Delayed again.
e x.html
Who cares about crApple OR Intel, when there's
an 800 MHZ ATHLON to be had ! (or built actually)
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/99q3/990826/ind
:-)
I haven't been able to sit down and play with a G4 box yet, so this is based entirely one what I've read, but the Sawtooth MoBo that ships with the 400 and 450MHz G4's has a new bus controller (MaxBus) which performs just as well if not better than most PCs.. As for the Yikes boxes.. The 60x bus is atleast 5 years old, and I don't know any Mac users who would argue the disk IO issue... That's why Apple revised the motherboard and has adopted the MaxBus controller.
It was simply a problem with the G4 500 chips, then it makes more sense just to tell people to wait for the G4 500 systems. Apple has done this before. Remember that the people that will buy these systems will wait a couple of months. Apple is not doing this, it is covering the increase in RAM prices by putting in cheaper chips. It is a simple tradeoff, Apple needs to make a profit.
Saying that Macs are expenseive is years of date, if you compare the prices of Macs with similar systems from Dell or Gateway, then there is not much difference in price. Sure, a few years ago the difference would be over $500, but this no longer the case.
. . . and at that time, what would the BULK of PPC buyers have run as an OS on those kick-ass Moto G3 boxes? Certainly not Mac OS, because Moto would have driven their asses out of business.
yes, it's obvious to anyone watching Apple during the (wistful sigh) "cloning era", that Apple was totally incapable of keeping up, performance-wise with the cloners. As it is obvious today that Apple can't keep up with the accelerator vendors.
But LinuxPPC/MkLinux didn't really exist then, and NT PPC was obviously dead. It would definately have been the end of the PPC platform, period, if Apple had gone out of business. I don't think Apple is quite irrelevant yet, as far as the future of the PPC goes, but maybe in a year or two. . .
Face it, Moto needs Apple for the PPC more than Apple needs Moto. I wish Moto could have done something to help Apple keep up - but maybe Apple pissed off Moto by going to that 3rd-party PPC manufacturer that had that 700MHz demo (two years ago!), I forgot their name.
Others suggested that Apple simply unload the hardware side of the business, and focus only on software. Well, with the state Mac OS was in at that time, that would also have probably been suicide. Because Apple hardware was still largely driving demand for clones, and if Apple had pulled out, I think we'd have seen further marketshare decline, and a lot of the cloners would probably have died, and Moto might have decided that 5000 chips per year wasn't enough reason to keep PPC development going.
What happened was ugly - but I think it was the only survival path Apple could have taken. But now both companies are acting like spoiled children, and I'm contemplating buying a Celeron-based PC now. (until my prozac kicks in, that is)
"The number of suckers born each minute doubles every 18 months."
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
You are a multi-billion dollar corporation.
You DO NOT accept confirmed orders, then in the
blink of an eye and without notice, cancel
all the orders because you decided it would be
in your own personal best interest to raise
the price, change the configurations, and pretend
the problem will go away.
It is insulting. It gives a clear message to Mac
users out there. And that is:
"We don't care about you. We want to lure you in
and screw you for all that you have. Then we
want you to come back for re-fills.
Have a nice day."
Pick any VAR out there and let them even hint at
trying to pull the same stunt. Watch the lawsuits
fly.
Some people have complained that Intel is no
better. But while they may price the chips high,
they aren't taking orders, then cancelling them
when things aren't going as well as they had
hoped.
Most companies call a mistake in planning like
this a loss. Apple should learn to play by the
rules.
But obviously, how the customer feels isn't as
important as how their pockets feel.
As for them reversing the action and calling
people back, nice touch. But what about the people
who got shoved to the bottom of the waiting list?
What about people who have lost time and money?
What about people who had contracts as a var to
fulfill? Those were confirmed orders for goodness
sakes! What if it had been medication or supplies
for a war stricken nation? Who's ever heard of
cancelling orders arbitrarily after they have been
placed and confirmed??
Steve REALLY IS thinking differently. But it is
really not clear whether he is thinking with his
head and his heart in the right place.
- Wing
- Reap the fires of the soul.
- Harvest the passion of life.
- Wing
- Reap the fires of the soul.
- Harvest the passion of life.
anyone know if the various mac resellers are going to change their prices to match?
Actually, I believe they already have. I haven't been following it much though.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
- Jeff
Price hikes aren't all that great either, though. Sure, their expenses were rising because of the huge jump in memory prices, but it really makes them look bad, and computer companies have a good history of not raising prices. I think Apple can afford to take a smaller profit on some machines in exchange for not pissing off large numbers of their customers, but apparently they disagree.
As far as the jumpers go, one must remember that the G3 machines were really the first Apple machines with jumpers on them. All the previous ones were pretty much fixed frequency. I know on my PowerCenter Pro machine, it has "jumpers", but PowerComputing kindly took it upon themselves to solder them on nice and tight. Yet I can still buy upgrades and run them without much trouble. Given Motorola's problem with higher-speed G4s, overclocking the thing probably isn't the greatest of ideas in any case. Just buy a new processor from one of the many upgrade makers and be happy.
I must say that the iBook is looking better and better by the day. Now if only I could get a decent amount of memory for it without selling off some vital organs, or my soul.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
Yeah wait some more...the chips will be 200Mhz and cost 3 times as much soon...Apple is WORSE the M$ ever could be...Not only does crApple have a monopoly on the OS they also monopolize the harware side. I think I'll wait for the .18 micron motherboards etc...they will outperform the G4 with out a problem and I will be able to buy them from several manufacturers. BTW did Apple take any money from folks on these orders ?? If so sounds like a law suit to me...failure to uphold a contractualy agreement...
.18 micron on x86? Isn't that like polishing a turd? "You can polish a turd, but it's still a turd" - Butthead
Hey, at least Intel has been doing some work with the chip...they gave it a name! What was it again, the Brainium? Actually Infoworld said samples were shipping.
Most likely the price increases are due to the recent RAM price hike.
Essentially, the price to make a G4 Mac has just taken an unanticipated upward journey for Apple, and they can no longer produce units at the price quoted before.
Strange ethics, but I guess that's how Apple Thinks Different. PC vendors have been swallowing the cost increases and delivering systems at their advertised proces, at least for outstanding orders. That's ethically sound and good business in the long run. Apple, well...
Apple hates you. Apple thinks you are only worthwhile as the source of the money they need to stay comfortably profitable. Apple spits in your eye. Again. You're too cowed to do anything but whimper.
Pfui!
Look at Apple's online store. The prices are the same and the clock rates are lowered.
Shenanigans! I call shenanigans on Apple!
" Apple Store representatives confirm that Apple has reversed its G4 cancelation policy, which brought much reader feedback--both positive and negative. Representatives, who are backed-up due to the large number of reader calls, are asking that users wait for another 24-48 hours, in which Apple expects to reinstate orders all Apple Store orders prior to yesterday's announcement and send an email message to customers with details. Discounts will reportedly apply to orders of 500-MHz Power Macs, which will be shipped with 450-MHz processors instead. (Apple yesterday evening began pre-emptively canceling Apple Store orders of G4 Power Macs after it announced "reconfigured" models with lower-speed processors--at the same price points, due in part to memory price increases.)"
I wonder how long it'll take for motorola to take ot the bugs in g4, and how that will affect apple stock
Thats the reason that The CFO of apple gave for keeping the price the same.
Although with Apples fat margins you would think they would just bite the bullet on this one to make people happy. I can understand canceling the 500 though if you can't ship.
Motorolla is really bitting the big one on this..
On the plus side IBM said it will begin making G4s with altivec in the first half of 2000. I think the new Nintendo will use them. SOI/copper should help the clock speed of the G4and IBM has good new fabs.
Thats the reason that The CFO of apple gave for keeping the price the same.
Although with Apples fat margins you would think they would just bite the bullet on this one to make people happy. I can understand canceling the 500 though if you can't ship.
Motorolla is really bitting the big one on this..
On the plus side IBM said it will begin making G4s with altivec in the first half of 2000. I think the new Nintendo will use them. SOI/copper should help the clock speed of the G4and IBM has good new fabs.
Hmm, what's with this MacOS 9 stuff I'm reading about? Granted, I'm not at all a Mac follower, but with that incredibly sweet cinema display I've seen, I was thinking about picking one of those G4s up once MacOS X client was available for it. I didn't even know there was going to be a MacOS 9.
Anyone know if 9 is closer to 8 or is closer to X?
"UNIX" is never having to say you're sorry.
My theory about companies is that they all screw up occasionally. THe question is what do they do when their customers point out the screwup. In this case Apple has retreated from the screwup and is honoring previous orders. To me that is good enough.
I *WAS* going to buy one (literally, I cashed in stock to do it), but what's the deal now? APPLE: For the sake of your product, pull your head out of your a**. There's only so much supporters will put up with... This may actually drive me back to x86, even though the G4's sound neat, I can't trust your company to be mentally stable enough to make them work in the market.
intel did not over clock it is just a heat rating if it can stay cool at 500Mhz then is's a 500 if it can't it's a 450.
So how can they get away with this? My guess is that it's becuase there is no competition. Maybe AMD needs to start making POwerPC clones :)
Werd.
I dunno, but I haven't seen anything that says the bug occurs at exactly 500MHz. Just because the 450's run fine and the 500's don't doesn't mean you can run it at 499.5 and expect it to work, it's not logical.
cheers,
Matthew Reilly
The G4 chip shortage isn't Apple's fault, its Motorolas. Apple made a bad decision on canceling the orders, and have since rectifed it. Put down the bat and leave that poor dead horse alone.
Reading the article, it looks like the reason for the change was the increased DRAM prices lately.
Face it, when the chips have trippled in cost in the last month or so, that really cuts into Apple's profits on the machines, so something has to go.
fairy *tale* :)
here's a good macworld opinion article, that sums up what most people probably think about this 50mhz reduction thing; they should have delayed the 500mhz models and left everything else the same. apple should have absorbed the lower yields/price increases, instead of passing their problem with moto unto the consumers.
No, the iBook has been shipping for some time, but only in blue. The yellow parts were delayed by the Taiwan quake.
Does anyone here really know whether the problem they're reacting to is with the chip or the motherboard? I can't see how problems with the 500 mhz chips would naturally lead to dropping the speed of the 400 mhz chips to 350... and the Sawtooth motherboards were already delayed compared to the "Yikes!" ones.
(currently testing something about signatures here)
Still, you don't cancel current orders and make folks submit orders again. That's a guaranteed way to lose business. Think about it...they've already placed an order. Now you're giving them a chance to either place again or not place. The ones who don't place...you've lost their business. Stupid.
It was just confirmed to me by Apple customer (dis)service that what is now the 400 model is using the new motherboard (as is the 450, imaginably), but the 350 is the old one.
What I wonder is, is my 400 that I ordered last night THE SAME EXACT machine that my pre-ordered 450 was, but maybe just slightly underclocked? Or maybe the original speeds were misleading or untrue, and they've just re-named them, basically.
The world may never know. I am pissed that now I'm paying the same amount for a computer that's 50 MHz slower, supposedly. Bastids.
what does one have to do with the other...Who cares about INTEL..this story was about crApple......quite trying to protect the lousy company..they nearly went broke for a very good reason...and I bet it happens again :)))
The price of 64/128MB ram modules did go up 150% in the last months you know... Thats the the price was not reduced. Unlike PC makers, they aren't shipping them with 16mb or 32mb now... Even the new iMacs come with 64Mb standard...
With 500 Mhz G4s no where in sight, and as they said, SDRAM prices shooting up, that's really all they could do. If the current trend continued, by the time they had 500 Mhz G4s, they might be taking a loss on the machines.
I'm quite upset that my 500 Mhz order has not only been canceled, but is now completely unavailable, but I'm not going to cry havoc at Apple for it. They're in a bind right now, and I don't think they'd make such a customer-angering move without having thought it out first. (On the other hand, they did design that awful QT 4.0 interface...)
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
I'm sure Tom or Andy will have some info on that in a month or so...
has such hubris that they (have) raise(d) prices in an industry where prices fall.
They should have shipped a 350MHz or 400MHz processor with that 500MHz machine that was promised, given a coupon for a 500MHz CPU upgrade and some other bonus (discount coupons or UltraSCSI card or printer, etc) for waiting so long. That way the customer would get a working machine and preserve their goodwill towards Apple and the bottom line.
Apple wouldn't be able to get away with this if we still had the mac clones.
---
True enough. I'm still wondering what they were doing there. Apple isn't broke any more, they should have just eaten the loss (next quarter is expected to be a good one, they could afford it).
I have a feeling there's something else here at play.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
- Jeff
How do you "Apple fanatic" people put up with this shit? Intel hardware is pretty disgusting, but at least you don't have to deal with this kind of bait-and-switch crap.
Well, I can tell you how I plan to deal with it. I'm an Apple supporter of many years who recently (about 1.5-2 yrs ago) started dabbling with Linux, first with MkLinux on my PowerMac clone, then with a dedicated Intel/Linux box from VA Research (now VA Linux Systems.) It was a bit of a rocky start, but the more I use it, the more I like it and the less tolerant I am of crashes when I use my Mac. It looks like I got in at about the right time, too, just when Linux was really starting to take off.
Anyway, after I bought my blue & white G3/300 a while ago, I was so impressed with the design of the case that I decided that I'd make my next Linux box a PowerMac/LinuxPPC box. Recently, I've started taking a look at putting together a 500 MHz Athlon box instead. This decision by Apple, which apparently has been reversed, convinces me I probably should go with the Athlon box. I'm still going to take a wait-and-see attitude with Mac OS X client, but if they mess that one up, I'm gone, probably for good.
I am used to a company dangling a carrot in front of me and then snatching it away, but this shit was rediculous. I ordered the G4 because I thought I would be able to have a top of the line graphics station because some people in the world use computers to make money. Instead they drop my order and tell me to buy something less for the same money? Well Apple, go fuck yourself. I took on work expecting to receive a G4, and now I have to play catch up. Fuck Apple - I am sticking to PC's.
raretshirts.com - cool vintage t-shirts
GIVE ME A F&*$%#NG BREAK! PLEASE!
If they couldn't make them, then they HAD NO BUSINESS ADVERTISING AND TAKING ORDERS FOR THEM.
This pretty much makes up my mind - I'm never buying (or ordering) an Apple product again. At least they hadn't charged my CC yet, the slimy incompetent lying bastards.
If (realistically, when) Intel drops the ball on a new high-end product, we can turn to other vendors such as AMD. The Stalinesque modem promulgated by Apple hasn't allowed any such flexibility -- not since the days of the Apple II.
A Mac user is someone who has willingly denied himself/herself one of the greatest benefits of the personal computer revolution -- freedom of choice. Rant all you want about Microsoft -- if you _really_ want to see monopoly power in action, you needn't look any further north than Cupertino.
My order has been cancelled too. And I AM going to cry havoc at Apple for it. If they couldn't produce 500MHz G4 systems, they should never have advertised them. Worse yet, they should have never taken orders for a phantom product. Right now, in my mind their business practices rate a couple steps below Kirby vacuum cleaners and Publishers Clearing House.
I'm sorry, but any company that lies about product availability, takes orders and doesn't honor them, and generally takes their customers for granted isn't getting any more of my money. If you want to go on getting treated like shit by Apple, subsidizing their bad business decisions, and remain loyal to a company that isn't loyal to you, you're a fool.
The National Security Agency forbids US companies from exporting supercomputers (defined as capable of over 1 billion floating-point operations per second (1 gigaflop)) to certain contries (N.Korea, Libya, Iraq, etc.).
Apple, with its G4 machines, was the first personal computer manufacturer to which this rule applied. No Pentium- or Athlon-based PC has yet broken the 1 gigaflop mark.
Even with this 50 MHz speed reduction, the G4 computers are still on the NSA's restricted list.
and at that time, what would the BULK of PPC buyers have run as an OS on those kick-ass Moto G3 boxes? Certainly not Mac OS, because Moto would have driven their asses out of business.
Why can't Apple just raise the liscencing costs on the new machines to cover some of the losses in their own product line? In the long run, the Mac OS *is* Apple's most valuable asset. Even with the pathetic state System 7 was in, they still had a loyal customer base that was attached more than anything else to Apple's OS. That means that anything Apple could do to grow the platform would have benefitted them in the long run.
Not only that, but giving Moto a stake in the platform would have given them much more incentive to make better PPC chips. And it would benefit Apple by allowing them to share some of the R & D costs. Particularly with the open hardware standards of CHRP, Apple could easily require some kind of technology-sharing arrangement whereby Apple gets to liscence any advances by cloners for cheap.
So I think clone-killing was dumb. The success of the clones was simply proof that Apple's hardware was falling behind the cutting edge. Better to get that lesson from someone who's dependent on you, than to wait for people to start defecting to Wintel, and likely never come back. The clones gave Apple both an alternative revenue stream and a less damaging feedback mechanism and technology source. A flourishing PPC clone market combined with LinuxPPC & Mac OS X would have been very sweet. As it is, the PPC platform can't keep up with the sheer competitiveness of the Wintel world.
The National Security Agency forbids US companies from exporting supercomputers (defined as capable of over 1 billion floating-point operations per second (1 gigaflop)) to certain contries (N.Korea, Libya, Iraq, etc.).
Apple, with its G4 machines, was the first personal computer manufacturer to which this rule applied. No Pentium- or Athlon-based PC has yet broken the 1 gigaflop mark.
Even with this 50 MHz speed reduction, the G4 computers are still on the NSA's restricted list.
'U' should be more careful with your assumptions. I haven't bought a Mac in years - my current main platform is a Mac clone (Power Computer PTP225). My work machine is an Apple, but I didn't pay for it so my 'A#$' is thus-far unreamed.
BTW: Did you come up with 'crApple' yourself? That's really, really quite clever and original.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
- Jeff
The company I work for had an outstanding order for 25 450mhz machines. These we have been told will ship in a week or so, and the price will remain the same. As far as I can tell outstanding orders (maybe older than a day?) seem to be honored at the original price.
How many people really have all the facts here. All I hear is a bunch of me too, panic stricken people that bears an aweful resemblance to a lynch mob.
The truth will set you free.
I have a co-worker that ordered a G3 the day before the G4s where released. He called the people that he ordered his machine from the next day and told him that his order was automatically upgraded to a G4.
It arrived about 2 weeks ago. Works fine and he got a 450 G4 for the price of now 400 G4.
Some people just get far too lucky.
-vert-
love the penguin
Apple ain't going under anytime soon... And just to be an asshole :) Apple at least is handling the move towards UNIX in a progressive way. Forget all the headlines about Intel and Linux. Internally, (re:inside Intel) it's not going good. The middle management drones don't know how to handle Linux..let alone what it looks like. I know, I'm there... it's a pretty messed up ball of wax. Wait till you see the 810 drivers
And they'll keep beating they're estimates until they have no more ARM shares to sell.
Actually it's possible to order the 400Mhz G4 from Apple store with a 450Mhz G4 chip by custom building your G4 spec. It's an additional $350 but still alot less than the $3500 price tage Apple now charges.
On another board someone who preordered over a month ago had their order cancelled. I'd love to know how Apple is prioritizing these.
It soared from $64 yesterday to $73 today on news of better-than-expected earnings from Apple. Apparantly Wall Street thinks the loss of 50 MHz is a minor, temporary glitch.
The proper response then is to change the price for new orders and honor the orders you have already received.
How would you like it if you went to a car dealership, picked out a model, and ordered a car from the factory with the options you want - then, after a few weeks they cancelled your order and told you that if you still wanted the car you would have to reorder, wait longer, and pay 20% more.
Alas, another Apple victim is brought to the light, through the window(s).....
We're all already dead, we're just waiting for the Government to tell us it's okay to be buried.
only problem is that they are still on the NSA's list for non-exporting. What qualified them was their 1billion floading point (gigaflop). No computer by intel or anyone else has caught up to that. So, they are still dangerous :)
Sorry about the crayon. They won't let me have sharp objects.
Okay, so Apple has reversed their decision. That's good--but it comes a bit late. Apple should have made that decision in the first place. Simply more management insanity, followed by panic when Apple discovers that, hey, people actually _do_ know what's best for themselves, rather than Apple telling them what is! Hmm! Maybe Apple's actually learning a thing or two.
But yes, as you recommend, I will put the bat down now...
I had finally decided to get rid of my Windows machine and get a G4. BUT NOT ANYMORE. Screw you Apple. Thanks for treating your customers like $hit. I'll never buy an Apple AS LONG AS I LIVE.
It seems that the G4 chip is similar in speed to a G3 for normal normal every day apps with a floating point unit that is around 20% faster. Most of the speed gains come from the Altivec unit. Apple probably has to raise prices for their machines as a result of system component prices going up throughout the industry.
Now it is HIGH time for loyal consumer get together and react so that Apple allows licensing MacOS ROM and Mac cloning. And let Steve Jobs ousted so that he can create some outstanding product (like NeXT) outside real world.
"Still three models of G4"?
:)
The previous G4/500 was announced but availability was at a later date. Then Mot announced the G4/500 bug which even threw even this later date into question. IMHO this means there was only two G4 models going into this latest setback.
Is this is another examples of Macophiles being so desperate to hold onto the dream that they even consider vapourware real? Maybe it caused by the same underlying inferiority complex that leads them to argue in defence of the BYTEmark suite despite its badly flawed underlying methodology
How do you "Apple fanatic" people put up with this shit? Intel hardware is pretty disgusting, but at least you don't have to deal with this kind of bait-and-switch crap.
- A.P.
--
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
the obvious joke would be that Apple is really thinking differant - contradicting Moore's law..
Steve can actually pull this off.. "are you sick of the technology rat race as we are? our chips are slower then the previous generation!". I can see the buzz on all the mac rumor sites about the next 68000 based iMac.. "hello again!"- for real!
oh well..
Apple has decided to rely on Mot for manufactioring these chips - big mistake - and yesturday Apple has basicly ecnolaged that and they are taking steps to rectify this situation - IBM will fab G4 chips as well starting to apear on Apple systems next year. hopefully that will stop that kind of stuff from happening in future.
Not that this matters much to us techies - we follow the news and know that motorola has had a erreta in the 500Mhz chips, and financial types understand that Apple has to do this to keep the gross margines intact. It's really sad, however, that apple rushed the introduction of these systems - without proper testing - which caused this issue in the first place. Hopfully they will learn that leson as well. Allmost all of apple's latest product introductions suffered from suply problems- the G3 thin laptop, the iBook and the G4's. This should be a strong wake up call for steve.
knowing the mac croud, this will not really affect apple. these guys will buy those G4 anyway. but that's fine.
--------------------------------
They come out with these horrible, misleading advertisements, and now they can't produce the product? Not only that, but they charge the same price for a less powerful machine? Some have placed that blame on the cost of DRAM, but hey if I ordered a Gateway computer for X dollars, and DRAM suddenly tripled in price, you know damn well I'd be getting the machine at the negotiated price.
1) Not my problem. You're a big boy (company) live up to your contracts. And ESPECIALLY don't make me wait even LONGER for a LESS POWERFUL product. And the whole "at least you'll get SOMETHING" line is just too pathetic to comment on
2) See last line of previous point
3) More excuses. I wouldn't be suprised if the next batch of Apple adds have a line saying "It's Motorola's Fault!"
Sorry, no "crApple" comments for you to insult me with. Bah...that's bad Latin anyway.
And to think I was considering buying one of these things...
Blar.
This was a business decision, and a tough one at that. You don't have the supply to meet the demand, not because of your own problems, but because of your supplier's (Motorola, Taiwan, etc.) problems. WHAT DO YOU DO?
Either you say "whoops, we messed up, let's try again", or you lie and say "no problems, we'll just be a little late". Apple chose the first option.
Am I happy about the situation? No. I don't think Apple is either. I don't like the price swap either, but how do you re-structure a product line such that it doesn't compete with the iMacs? A 350 MHZ G4 == $1599. A 350 MhZ G3 iMac == $999. Price the G4 any lower and they cut into iMac sales.
Decisions like these are rarely cut & dry....
-Stu
If this is the same thing I read about, the person had changed the video card option on their order yesterday. If Apple is using order date to cancel, this would probably result in any previous order being kicked...
Just a thought.
The truth will set you free.
I think Wallstreet love Apple because they eraned 40% more tils quarter than they predicted.
And..
Since the G4's aren't shipping too well yet.. the iBook isn't shipping at all (with 300.000 in back order) yet, and the new iMac have recieved 250.000 orders in the first week and is just starting to ship the _next_ quarter is probably going to be the most profitable in many, many years.. So.. BUY while the stock is cheap!
- Henrik
- Henrik
- when the Shadows descend -
These guys just love being spanked by Jobs, and they'll pay the man boot. And sooooo understanding of Apple's problems, poor Apple.... The other day I saw a posting somewhere about the iBook. Someone complained that it's underfeautured for the price (it is: 3.2G disk?). The response: let's remember that Apple needs to make a profit here, indeed it's in our interest that their margins remain high -- even when the consumer gets screwed, I ask?
Differant? Ecnolaged? Croud? Homie, where, oh where, is your dictionary???
I don't think Apple is quite irrelevant yet, as far as the future of the PPC goes, but maybe in a year or two. . . Face it, Moto needs Apple for the PPC more than Apple needs Moto.
This could not be less true. Motorola sells the vast majority of its PPCs for embedded processor systems. That's also where IBM sells most of their PPC technology. To say that Motorola needs Apple is like saying Microsoft needs Apple to help sell Office.
Both Motorola and Microsoft would like to keep Apple around as a customer, but if Apple folded up today, they'd shrug and go on with their lives.
If Motorola decided to shut down its G4 assembly line today - where would Apple be?
The Register has the details.
Basically the problem is that Motorola is shipping a buggy product. This is very similar to problems we see all the time in software (business pressure to release something before it's really ready). Chips are never perfect when they're first fabricated. They always go through several rounds of: 1) fabricate, 2) find and fix bugs in the parts.
Of course, it's not clear exactly who screwed up here. It could be that Apple announced the G4 machines before Motorola was ready. Or maybe Motorola management decided to declare the G4 ready before the hardware engineers were ready to sign off on it. Or maybe this is just a bug they didn't find until they were already shipping parts to Apple.
Kenneth C. Schalk (kenneth.schalk@compaq.com)Alpha Development Group
Compaq
What about when Intel had the bug in the original Pentium chip and they would only ship new processors to people who could demonstrate "need?" That was a public relations nightmare, as I recall.
-Dave
Well, even without the one-time profits, they still beat estimates. So it's not /all/ smoke and mirrors.
pooptruck
Not in the United Kingdom.
There was a recent case where the Argos online shop mistakenly offered colour televisions for £3 each. A lot of people seemed intent on making them honour their deal. Their defense that it was clearly an error and they didn't confirm any orders would not apply in Apple's case.
See: Telegraph article
Is it legal for Apple to cancel non-500mhz G4 orders and then ask consumers to reorder the same system at a higher price? I always thought that when a company accepted an order, there was a contract between the company and the customer. The company agreed to deliver a product to the customer, and the customer agreed to pay a certain amount to the company. Would anyone with a legal background/knowledge be able to comment on this?
I live in a land without dictionaries. A far away place, a fairy tail land. Also devoid of pedants.. :-)
--------------------------------
12:22PM 71 1/8 Change +7 3/32 (+11.08%)
quote.yahoo.com symbol aapl
Pork is not a verb
What makes you think they CAN make them? Doesn't it make more sense that they had to cancel the orders because of stability problems and made a engineering/marketing decision to bite the bullet now?
According to Macintouch (it's up right now), Apple has reversed its decision and is calling up customers to explain. From the article: "People who ordered the G4/500 model that cannot be produced due to Motorola's production issues, will be offered a choice of the previous G4/450 configuration or a discount on the G4/500 configuration with the slower processor (as if it were custom-built and a 450-MHz processor were selected originally). The Apple Store will honor existing orders for the previous configurations at the previous prices. Once Motorola production has ramped up to the level that Apple expected - which may take another three months or so - processor speeds should again rise 50 MHz. to the level initially announced. (Answering another question among readers, IBM will be manufacturing the same G4 currently produced by Motorola, AltiVec functions included.)
The cancellation has been reversed.
Read it at MacInTouch.
Macintouch reports: "Apple has reversed the cancellation of existing Power Mac G4 orders, according to impeccable sources, and is calling back customers to explain."
If all they needed to do was avoid a 500MHz clock on the top end configuration, they could simply have tweaked the bus speed and clock multiplier on that machine. They could have offered the top configuration with a 99MHz bus and a 5x multiplier, or a 110MHz bus and 4.5x multiplier, which would have resulted a 495MHz machine in either case. A 111MHz bus and 4.5x multiplier would give a 499.5MHz machine. The faster bus clocks could even have been a supprise marketing coup. The extra time needed for engineering and testing could easily have been excused by reference to the Motorola screw-up. (besides, the 500MHz models weren't scheduled to ship for a while yet)
I'm normally an Apple booster, but it really looks like some folks out in Cupertino panicked this week, and I'd be suprised if they didn't lose some customers over this gaff. It makes me very sad.
- Jeff Dutky
of an issue? I can see holding off on the 500 MHz G4s, as the 7400s are simply not available in that speed yet.... but did they need to drop the speed / raise the price? Well, I guess can can now claim that they are indeed shipping the "top of the line G4". -Sigh-
It was mentioned in the past, but I think the nickname, As The Apple Turns, is very fitting these days -- especially when Apple's getting more slashdot coverage than Microsoft, Red Hat, and Intel combined.
Of all the ways to cope with the lack of G4's and the rising cost of memory, this solution is possibly the most offensive to consumers. Why don't they just cancel or postpone the 500MHz model? Why don't they cook up a top of the line, suped-up 450MHz model? My real problem is that now, if I want to get 50 more MHz, I have to cough up like $800. I'd rather they just raised the cost of the 400MHz model by $100 or shipped it with less RAM - then I could upgrade the RAM sometime down the line for much less than the cost of a new chip. I wonder, does the custom configuration at the apple store let you strip down the 400MHz model until it's affordable? I just get so tired of Apple telling the consumer "WE know what's best for you, and it involves us making a big margin." Ugh.
After all, those things were declared weapons, right?
:P
-
"In the flesh, on the phone and in your account.... You shouldn't have called you know."
THIS IS PRE-ALPHA PRIVATE RELEASE CODE!!!
DO NOT USE IT UNLESS YOU ARE A DEVELOPER.
ALL IT DOES IS CRAS
OS 9 will be in stores on the 23rd of October (in the US at least), X Client should have been out in the first Quarter of '00, but I read over at Macosrumors that there is some delays going on, so there could be a public preview and that it should ship in the 2nd Quarter of '00. Personally I';d bet it comes out at the WWDC in May of next year.
I have been running OS 9 on an older Mac (75MHz 6200) and the TCP/IP and File Sharing seem to have really gotten alot snappier.
As a former Apple employee, I can say - what a blunder. Holy momma. I understand removing the 500 MHz version from your web site if you cannot produce enough chips, but don't cancel peoples orders. Work as hard as you can, even at a loss, and fulfill those orders (though the 500 MHz machines were what? $3,500 minimum... gotta be some profit in that number) and accept no more. But to bump your lowest machine from 400 to 350 MHz sure looks like you are moving backwards. Hmm, that's funny, it's becuase you are moving backwards!
www.jackasscritics.com
I remember when the "Sawtooth" (new motherboard) machines first shipped, Macintouch reported that the new machines' clock speed could no longer be controlled by jumpers. So, until someone comes up with an overclocking method ...
OS9 is basicly an upgrade of OS8 has some new little things such as sherlock2 and what not but its no OSX im still waiting for OSX its ganna rock
Okay, so he didn't really phrase his arguement very well, but he has a very good point. Apple has done a lot of things in the last few years that thoroughly pissed off its at-that-time-loyal user base. I was an avid mac user until 2 years ago. Now my mac (clone) pretty much sits on my desk gathering dust while I use my Intel based systems. So for many of us, this is just one more time to see Apple shit on its customers. I do not have a long-standing prejudice toward Apple. I have, however, developed a deep-seated disgust for them. They kill very promising programs (cloning and CHRP). They stop talking to Be. The idea of the Mac platform as an open platform was a very appealing one, and it could have had great results. Unfortunately, Steve Jobs annihilated any chance of that when he took over.
So, when the previous poster says that Apple has their collective head up their ass, I agree with him. I think it's a pretty valid statement (even if it wasn't too well backed up).
Cheers,
Perrin.
-Perrin.
Now I want you to go in that bag and find my lightsaber. It's the one that says bad mother-fscker on it.
PowerLogix came up with a workaround to the MacOS ROM 1.1 lockout that prevented G3 machines from being upgraded to G4s (the one people were calling Apple's Trojan.)
/hardware/ prevents upgrades.
Supposedly G4's
J.
damned vulpine http://sb.drtwister.com/
Apple has done thereselves good. There must be some problem with the processor but they should drop the prices- doubt anyone will actually take legal actions... Freaks Macintosh Archives - A Macintosh Underground site. http://freaky.staticusers.net
Intel hardware is pretty disgusting, but at least you don't have to deal with this kind of bait-and-switch crap.
I guess you never bought anything from Midwest Micro, National Electronic Warehouse of NJ, CompUSA or anyplace that has a NYC address. It seems like half the clone vendors out there, at least, are playing shell games with factory rebates, internet bundles, refurbed hardware sold as new, and any other sharp practice they can find to push junk on the consumer at deceptive prices.
By comparison Apple is the virgin mother.
Offtopic, but very interesting: It seems OS X Client has been delayed until mid-2000, but Apple might release a "preview" version for cheap, maybe even free, early next year:
http://www.macosrumors.com/10-99-2.html
... wall street loves the move, as 'top pick' ratings have flown around, as well as the stock price going up around $8... the men in red suspenders seem to think we don't mind...
_____________
I've been princing out various configurations of G4's the last couple of days for a multimedia lab at work. Yesterday the base G4 was a 400mhz for $1439. Today, it's a 350mhz for $1439. Bastards!
Linux is not The Answer. Yes is the answer. Linux is The Question.
If you read through most of the posts and articles on this subject, then the conclusion one draws is not that there are not enough G4 chips, excluding the 500, but the state of RAM prices is what is causing Apple the major problem.
It seems that Apple has realized that with the tremendous upswing in RAM prices, which looks like it will continue, the original systems would not longer make the profit they thought. So, somehow they had to raise prices. Clearly, shipping a system with less RAM is not an option, instead they blamed the supposed lack of G4 chips and put out systems with cheaper chips to make up the profit.
In summation, remember Apple is not a private company, it is a business that must make a profit. In essence, this is no different to laying off/ downsizing workers.
The raised SDRAM prices are NOT the reason for the delay in getting 500MHz machines out the door. Jobs & Co. made the comment about the SDRAM to indicate that they aren't making any money off shifting the parts down by 50MHz. That comment was made just so nobody gets thinking that this is just an Apple stunt to get more money out of people.
The reason that Apple can't sell 500MHz G4 machines is that the 500MHz CPUs are not available from Motorola. Motorola can't supply the 500MHz chips because there is a bug in the silicon, such that when the chip hits 500MHz or above it starts getting data corruption in the processor's cache memory. Motorola has stated that they expect this bug to be fixed by December. So basically, if you want a 500MHz part from Apple, you'll have to wait until then. The Register has an article about this.
I've found that instability is largely determined by the apps you're running. Netscape and IE are among the worst culprits, and I've occasionally had crashes from ICQ and Starcraft. In particular, ICQ doesn't handle losing it's 'net connection very well.
But even with those unstable apps, I only have a crash about once a week, and that's using my 8.6 iMac a couple hours a day. Certainly not up to server standards, but acceptable for a workstation.
Hehe. I have already got my G4. Some one I know works at Liberate (formerly Oracle) he got his too hehe. I aplogize but i just like to rub it in!
The problem with the G4 500 systems is with the G4 processor itself. At 500 MHZ the cache is no longer stable which makes the chip unreliable. They are working on the problem. If you recall, the Pentium Zeon's (not all of them just a particular model) had similar problems I believe. At the hideously expensive prices Apple is charging for these systems, a ram price increase should not be too much of an issue.
In an average living room there are 1,242 objects Vin Diesel could use to kill you, including the room itself.
According to MacInTouch,
Apple has reversed the cancellation of existing Power Mac G4 orders, according to impeccable sources, and is calling back customers to explain. The Apple Store will honor existing orders for the previous configurations at the previous prices.
The rest of it's at www.macintouch.com
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I guess G4's are harmless now as well? http://www.adcritic.com/ content/apple-lethal-weapon-g4.html Too bad.
We are so used to reading stories about PC manufacturers cutting prices and/or introducing faster models that this is kind of a man bites dog story.
It may also indicate that Apple is having problems with their new G4 motherboard. IIRC, the original G4/400 used the older G3 system motherboard while the G4/450 and future G4/500 were to use a new motherboard designed to exploit exploited the wider buses and other features of the G4. If they are now only offering 350 and 400 MHz G4 systems these are probably the old G3 motherboard. It might also indicate that Motorola is getting worst than expected yields in their higher speed bins for the G4. The good news for Apple is that IBM will second source the G4; the bad news is they won't be able to ramp up until next year.
Meanwhile, the prices in the x86 world will fall further as Coppermine arrives in a few weeks and AMD introduces a 750 MHz K7. Isn't competition great?
I received an email from Apple last night cancelling my order for a 500 Mhz G4 and telling me to visit their web page and reorder. The 450 Mhz G4 is going for the price of the 500 I ordered, and on top of that I have to go to the end of the waiting list. I tried to call apple, but their phone switch just keeps dropping the call. I understand that apple and motorola are having supply/technical problems with the 500Mhz cpu, but this is an inappropriate response on apple's part. I am a very dissatisfied ex apple customer.
Before the flame-Apple-fests begin, keep a couple things in mind:
1. Inventory has been VERY constrained, and they were having a great deal of trouble getting enough PowerPCs. This allows them to ship sometime before the next millenium (literally).
2. This sucks, but don't be too hard on Apple. They're not making any friends, but at least they're getting people G4s this way.
3. On the plus side, they've managed to get IBM to enter back into the fray and take some of the load off of Motorola.
The modern Apple has a tendency to underpromise and overdeliver (sure enough, their recent quarteryly profit beat expectations), so my guess is that this will be 'fixed' soon enough.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
- Jeff
Prices are supposed to go down, not up. Apple took a gamble by introducing the macs before they were ready and now they're increasing the price of their macs to cover costs. Let Apple pay for Apple's mistakes. You make your bed you sleep in it. Pinky.
It must be damned frustrating to work at Apple.
I know it's really hard in this day and age to defend the virtues of a once awesome, creative, and truly "for the rest of us" company, and keep a straight face. MacAddict has for years been advising the faithful on how to win the holy war with intelligent, informed discussion--but now the mother ship, Apple itself, is losing the battle for us!
Steve Jobs's Reality Distortion Field seems to have become quite a bit more powerful--now his force-field surrounds not only the entire Apple campus but also quite a bit of the Apple industry.
It seems amazing to me that there are still people out there who can say, "Sure, Apple has made yet another blunder, but it was for the greater good." As Gil Amelio once said, "If I have to shoot the lead buffalo to send a message to the rest of the herd, you bet I'll do it." This seems to be exactly what Apple is doing--but I thought that Amelio's thinking was killed when Jobs took over. Apparently not.
I continue to like Apple's hardware, but not their prices or availability. Apple's management, however, seems to be just as insane as Steve Jobs himself, and will likely continue to be as long as he is at Apple. Perhaps it's time for Steve to be ousted once again--this time for good.
At the rate Apple's going, there isn't going to be much left of the company or the Mac faithful in the next millenium, iMac or not. I hate to resort to doomcrying, because it's all been done before, but I finally have to admit that it's true. Apple is a poorly-managed company that relies on vaporware to push its reputation.
Doesn't it seem to everyone like Steve Jobs has been told by a marketing guru just what to say? Doesn't it strike you as funny that every time Apple brings out a new product, what Steve says about it is almost verbatim what goes up on the Web site? It seems like he doesn't know what the hell he's doing. Oh wait--he doesn't! He's a hippie college dropout who by some miracle got invited back to the company he almost destroyed.
It's incredible how lucky some people get.
They could ship only the 450 and 400 MHZ configs and not got a huge speed hit. They could still keep up suply. The only reasone they didn't have enough was they made a gamble, and it didn't work. It's Apple's error. Apple will pay. IBM was comming back anyways. Pinky
From Macintouch:
Apple has reversed the cancellation of existing Power Mac G4 orders, according to impeccable sources, and is calling back customers to explain. The Apple Store will honor existing orders for the previous configurations at the previous prices. People who ordered the G4/500 model that cannot be produced due to Motorola's production issues, will be offered a choice of the original G4/450 configuration at the original price or a discount on their G4/500 configuration, as if it had been ordered custom-built with a 450-MHz processor selected. Once Motorola production has ramped up to the level that Apple expected - anticipated to take an extra three months or so - processor speeds should again rise to the level initially announced. (Answering another question among readers, IBM will be manufacturing the same G4 currently produced by Motorola, with AltiVec functions included.)
...which is EXACTLY what Apple should've done in the first place. Do we offer half-credit for making the right decision 24 hours later?
-A.
What did the walrus say to the penguin? "No soap, radio."
beep! - ."
."
"Yeah, Chris, it's me again, Steve Jobs. I've calmed down a bit now. I've had my people call in a contractor to fix the wall, and the window, and they're bringing my chair back up from the parking-lot - they'll have to vacuum the broken glass off of it first, but it seems to have survived the fall. Anyway. I was thinking about this 7400 problem. . . excuse me. .
sounds of deep, slow, tantric breathing excercises. . .
"okay-close one. I'm feeling better now. Now you're engineers said you'd have this fixed, obviously it's not. We've had to make some changes to the lineup to compensate. Our customers won't be too happy, it'll likely impact sales, which means less 750's AND 7400's out the door, probably for a while to come. Well, I think I've come up with a plan. I'm gonna COME DOWN TO YOUR OFFICE AND @#*@^&$*)))!**$&#^(%&^@#$@# @$#&&%!$$#*@#!!! $^&@ ! YOUR @#@$#^@*&! PIECE OF @#$@#)*!! HEAD OFF, AND RAM IT UP YOUR @#$*(*@^&(*&#@^! AND &*@#$^&* IT WITH YOUR !@#*&^@^ AND BEAT THE @(*#$&( OUT OF YOUR )@#&^$%@*& CARCASS WITH MY @(*$&@#&*@#&&!"
(exited, worried voices in the background, sound of breaking glass, loud thuds, fabric tearing, "NO! NO! STEVE! DON-!! more glass breaking)
-click
on Glenn Gienko's voice mail; 5 minutes later. . .
"Glen? Steve Jobs. .
(female voice in background - "you're bleeding, can I -" unintelligible - Steve whispering, "no, no, just leave")
". . . yeah, Steve here, could you do me a favor and FIRE Chris Galvin for me!! Hell, just f^@$*ing fire EVERYONE dammit, fire them all and transfer them to Hell!"
-click
"The number of suckers born each minute doubles every 18 months."
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Apple screwed Moto over big time when they killed the clones. Moto had a kick-ass G3 system waiting in the wings about 6 months before Apple's own systems were ready, and Apple killed it to prevent the market share loss. That machine was faster than Apple's first G3's months later, so it would've been a major coup for the platform and a major money-maker for Motorolla. Instead, they forced Motorolla to take a loss on all of the R & D costs for the machine so Apple's machines wouldn't look bad. I don't blame Motorolla for being pissed off.
It's just as accurate to say they knocked off the 500mhz line (which were priced at almost $4,000 with all the bells and whistles) because of Motorola delays, and hiked up prices because RAM prices were biting them in the ass.
If I was a company who ordered a load of top-of-the-line G4s, there might be a reason for me to gripe, but as a single user, I was planning to wait until the prices came down.
And don't worry about them being nonupgradeable (there's no jumpers, apparently clock speed is determined by some chip on the motherboard.) Give PowerLogix a few months and they'll figure out a workaround.
J.
damned vulpine http://sb.drtwister.com/
Every one seems to love the idea that Apple dropped the ball with this new chip but hey, where is Intel's new chip? Delayed again? And as far as working out the bug's when will Intel do that? Oh, wait those are "features" of the x86 architecture.
I almost wonder if this isn't a hoax. I have a lot of trouble believing that anyone, even Apple, would be this stupid, particularly coming off of something like the G4 ROM block. These machines were actually priced quite well in terms of price/performance before; I'd hate to see Apple lose that.
I'm not even sure it's entirely legal; I think Apple is at least contractually obligated to ship out the orders it's processed. That's another reason I tend to believe this can't really be happenning; class-action lawsuits are the last thing Apple wants right now (and if this is real and I'd bought a G4, I would have joined the lawsuit).
It does, at least, make me glad I didn't get a G4 (or, conversely, that I'd gotten one a lot earlier). When the time comes, I think I'll use that trade-in program and get a 450 for a thousand bucks; that'd be sweet.
If you read my message history you'll see that I'm a pretty staunch Mac defender. But twice in as many months, now, I've seen Apple do something that even I can't defend them for. Then again, I never said I liked Apple, just the machines they make.