Slashdot Mirror
Interview: Grill John Vranesevich of AntiOnline
Before you start posting questions for John, you may want to learn a little more about him. First check his Web site, AntiOnline. Then take a look at this story about him in The New York Times (free registration required). And, for a sample of the kind of animosity John has stirred up among some members of the "inner circle "hacker/cracker and computer security crowd, you might want to check this site, too.
We expect this interview to be full of fire. Fine. We have our flameshields set to "high." But realize that the questions we forward to to JP Tuesday afternoon are subject to our usual screening process; we're only going to send him the 10 - 15 questions deemed most interesting and/or relevant by Slashdot moderators and editors, so please try to be as level-headed as possible.
John's answers will appear Friday.
Why are you hated so damn much and do you care?
Hates people who have stupid little sigs
1 (and only). Do you honestly consider yourself a computer security expert?
http://windows.scares.us
What's your opinion on the security of wireless standards like 802.11? Are devices like the AirPort secure enough, and if so, for how long?
I use Macs for work, Linux for education, and Windows for cardplaying.
Seeing slashdot contribute to the fame of such a character just really disgusts me. Everything I've read says that this guy is a self-promoting nobody who doesn't know his stuff, and everything I've seen him do involves him sueing someone because they came out and said as much. The only question I have is why he even thinks he deserves to be interviewed here. I've never heard of anything positive coming from him and I've heard of a lot of negative stuff
-Mike
Mr Vranesevich:
Having read many accounts of your interactions with the staff of attrition.org, it seems to me that your claims against them are generally unproven and rash. Their rebuttals are always filled with detailed fact and systematic, step by step analysis of the topic at hand. Please clarify why you feel that attrition.org is such a dangerous force, yet you have neer been able to present HARD EVIDENCE to that point.
--
I live in the ocean
Four-digit slashdot ID. Recognize.
How do you define your current role?
-and-
How do you see your role in the future?
John;
Attrition and other sources have reported on you a great deal, and my question has to do with their reports.
Specifically; where the hell did your venture capital go, and how much did you *really* get? I have seen you claim in email to have recieved numbers ranging from $75,000 to $300,000 to continue AntiOnline's operation, and have seen NUMEROUS reports that AntiOnline has NO MONEY. So, where'd the money go, and how much was it honestly? You can answer honestly, right?
I once read slashdot. AFter seeing their promotions, whatever it may have been, that
little hyper text link to AO. I will no longer
read the site. You are helping one of the most
worthless sites on the Net. Run by someone who
many would classify as a criminal. A narc, and
a liar. Someone who puts up a worthless site,
has allegdly PAID people to hack things just
to get more hicks. Someone who is in bed with Carolyn Meinel, and a person who doesn't know
his ass from a hole in the ground. What a worthless piece of shit.
JP, I would love to hear you ramble on again about how Jericho is obsessed with you, and how packetstorm was threatening you sister, et al. But really, we all know that you just couldn't stand the competition from the security sites without VC backing, so lets cut to the chase: How do you explain numerous stories that appear on your site that were copied fully or in part from a different commercial news source without their permission, and without giving due credit? Don't deny it, it's pointless. I know you want to, but attrition.org has documented all of it. Also, how do you respond to allegations that you have committed Federal computer crimes, since, by your own admission, you have been in situations before where you could have stopped a crime and didn't? Isn't that a crime itself? I mean really, the only time you've ever had a report on anything less than a month old is when you reported on (cr|h)acks that you were suspected of taking part in. One last question: How does it make you feel to know that you destroyed the life work of a college student that was providing one of the most valuable online security resources (certainly better than another infamous web site) for free in his spare time for no other reason than it bothered you to lose traffic to it?
If you need to point-and-click to administer a machine,
What, if anything has changed since the entire packetstorm debacle? How has this affected you? Have any policies of yours, be they personal or public changed since?
Slashdot folks, you all should be ashamed of yourselves. Who is next on your interview list, Satan himself? JP is the biggest sellout & poser, seeking to elevate his name at any cost, be it hackers, crackers, or broken laws.
And then you don't even have the nerve to site the number one source of valid information about John. www.attrition.org
Total nonsense. Can't you guys find someone who does constructive/productive work in the industry, rather than a proven liar?
Interview Ken Williams instead, at least he's honest.
Again, i repeat. Blecch.
"and no, im not the spot working for Transmeta, although i wish i was..." -- ~spot "i'm the epitome of public enemy..."
Many of us in the hacker community (not cracker) used the Packet Storm security site for information and research. You had it shut down for some alleged things in the /jp directory. Explain to us why you called Stanford to shut it down rather than dealing with the maintainer. What did you accomplish by threatening to sue other than futher harm your image and remove any creditbilily you had?
-Davidu
# Hack the planet, it's important.
Those curious about the packetstorm situation may wish to look at: http://www.jya.com/kw070199.htm which is the original mail sent by the person who ran packetstorm.
--
Everything I know in life I learnt from
There are a lot of security information sites on the net, of varying quality. Why should I read AntiOnline? I Suppose I'm wondering what you feel that you're adding/offering that makes you unique.
thanks
-nme!
What were your most important works in the security related area, ie. posting to relevant(!) mailing lists (let's say bugtraq, ntbugtraq, RISK), articles in magazines, papers or lectures?
How much of the criticism you have received at the hands of the online community do you think is deserved? Do you feel you have been hard done by? Or did you intentionally start stirring up a community that can sometimes disappear up it's own arse? .45 magnum, all the way through to a cracker breaking into AntiOnline? Do you feel that the fact that AntiOnlines "uncracked" status proves your worth as a security expert? I love reading the "hack attempts on this site" section, BTW...
How real is your fear of reprisals? I mean, everything from fearing a wannabe scriptkiddie waiting in your alleyway with a stolen
Strong data typing is for those with weak minds.
...from a loyal /.'er
Don't send this guy a dang thing. Everything I have seen from both his side and those of his detractors has painted him as a sham and a joke. I really don't give a sh*t what he thinks, I know his opinions are biased and baseless. Don't taint what have been quality interviews with this tripe.
+&x
I was wondering if you had any plans to work with new security expert John Dvorak in the future? With your notoriety and John's media connections (not to mention his $40 firewall) it would seem to be a partnership guaranteed to strike fear into the hearts of evil h4x0r5 everywhere.
======
"Rex unto my cleeb, and thou shalt have everlasting blort." - Zorp 3:16
Sacred cows make the best burgers.
I once read slashdot. AFter seeing their promotions, whatever it may have been, that little hyper text link to AO. I will no longer read the site.
This way of thinking always pisses me off.
You have been reading slashdot for a whole week now?
Ever heard the phrase "Know thy enemy"!? The whole idea here is to know as much as you can, with view points from all sides. Let him speak for himself... then formulate your judgement.
Or, surround yourself in ignorance and go on getting pissed off.
It is a shame to see slashdot come to this, knowingly selecting highly inflamatory material with little to no redeeming value, for the sake of increasing banner revenues. I first noticed this with Katz, but now I'm seeing it with JP as well. Both are nothing but cheap hacks. It would be a waste of words to describe how and why, I believe the "editors" know full well what they're doing.
I've said it before, and i'll say it again; I believe slashdot may very well hurt themselves financially in the long run. Though these "articles" may create short term revenues, they detract from the site. I have little doubt that the real secret to slashdot is intelligent discussion. Katz and JP simply tear it apart--leading to flame and dogma. The people who participate vigorously in such discussions tend to be younger, immature, etc. People, such as myself, on the other hand, only have so much tolerance for this kind of behavior. When the more intelligent people (better contributors) leave, the heart and soul of slashdot will too. With out this certain intellectual vitality, slashdot will rapidly degenerate.
PS: I said I wouldn't, but I changed my mind...I knew JP a couple years ago on undernet (IRC) in #cha0s, and other such channels. He was, and always will be a clueless idiot. He is a horrible writer. He doesn't know the first thing about computer security. What he is, is an opportunist, and a not very intelligent one at that. The reason he is "popular", if you could call it that, is that he was in the right place at the right time. Namely, he acted as a conduit for the media when "Analyzer" (the moronic israeli hacker) did his thing. Since that time, he's been trying desperately to sensationalize everything and purporting himself to be an expert. In short, he's a hack.
What is the basis for your attacks on security Experts such as Attrition.org?
To Clarify the question:
Why do you proclaim them to be 'dangerous hackers' while they do essentially the same thing you claim to do, except that they do so better, faster, and more professionally.
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
After looking at your website, it's obvious that you've learned a lot from Microsoft's marketing over the years.
Do you think you will ever be ruled a monopoly and if so will you try to sue the judge?
Taco, Hemos etc., this is real disapointing. If you need a list of interviews to ask for, let me give you a few:
Donald Knuth, Bill Joy, Steve Wozniak, Alan Cox, George Patton, Mickey Mouse, Al Gore, Tipper Gore, Democrat Sponsored Tax Reduction
...Oops! A couple of these would be a problem wouldn't they? However, they are all more plausible than this one!
An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.
How successful have people been at attacking the happyhacker and linuxppc servers that you are letting people attack and are you going to provide session logs of intresting attempts?
Why did you deliberately block links from Slashdot, HNN, and any other site who criticized you during the closure of Packetstorm?
What do you attempt to achive by offering a large archive of virus source code?
"We do for the web, what tabloids do for
the super market check out lane"
I think it's a shame Slashdot is sinking to such depths as to interview this character.
Who's next on the interview list? The unibomber?
I remember visiting AntiOnline a few days after the packetstorm incident by following a link from slashdot, and being bounced with a message that read something like 'The page you are being refered by is a known hacker website...'
Can you please explain how you classified Slashdot, a site which reports news, does interviews, and encourages discussion as a Hacker website?
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
Lets ditch the questions and gather the top 10-15 people that JP has fscked the worst so that they may take turns kicking him in the jimmy (if he even has one). Hope this d00d has a fire extinguisher on hand..
Maybe most people dont get a kick out of it, but I personally see it as one of the better parts I've seen of AntiOnline/AntiCode.. Redhat 5.2 ftpd exploit? I could really care less, putting that up only adds to the amount of clueless kids running around there attacking anyone they can, including dialup users. However, The Virii archives seem to add a bit of history to it. I've spent hours before browsing through, looking at some of the more historical Virii that raped newspaper headlines. At work one time half the computers around had gotten a virus that the antivirus said couldn't be removed; I check the archives, analyzed it (which is VERY fun if you know assembly.. (Tutorial). I dont see many people actually going out and compiling them, so just consider them to be historical documentation like text files.
Here is a valid question:
After the statute of limitations is over for
the HFG hacks, will you finally admit to being
HFG?
Also, once the statute of limitations is over
for the sites you paid people to hack, will you
admit to those? Is this your companies life long
plan, is to sit being poor for 8 years, and then
make these announcements in the mid 200x era,
and then get a ton of hits from those
announcements? That is a BRILLIANT plan. Wow,
you are far more intelligent than I had thought!
Also, what exactly do you have to say about
your interferance with packet storm? Did
you find them to be a big competition with
you, so you figured you would cry and moan
and threaten until they were shut down?
What do you plan to do when a company
with money gets sick of your girlish
whining and pissing, and sinks you
like Jimmy Hoffa?
Could you please reply to every single thing
that attrition.org says on their dedicated
section to you, and try to prove them wrong?
(with as little lying as possible if you could).
I say we flat out ignore him - he's of no value to the community. The only thing he does is stir up trouble and act as the town provocateur.
--
JP was a wannabe hacker and he managed to gain a lot of access to many hacker groups by providing the groups with publicity. He 'called' them (us) a 'friend'. Actually, what he was doing was collecting information on 'friends' and putting it into a database of which FBI and NSA would be proud. He now sells this information he collected to law enforcement officers.
Questions for JP:
1) Why did you betray your 'friends'?
2) How can you now be trusted?
3) How do you feel about spending this dirty money?
4) What were your charity donations for 1998 tax year?
Why did you decide to let Slashdot interview you? How did the response you got compare to what you expected?
---- sonoffreak
Why are you *such* an *arsehole*???
Interview Ken Williams instead, at least he's honest.
Just to add some dB to your voice.
Yes, Ken Williams would be great! I would be very interested in how he came to make packetstorm and what he does now...
Which iMac color would you recommend for aspiring "security enthusiasts"?
--
-- ken williams
I seem to recall the story on /. that Packet Storm is now hosted somewhere else and they were able to retrieve all the data. Can somebody confirm/deny that please?
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Doubtless some of the members of Attrition and some contributers to Packetstorm are not without blame.
These people never tried to stop the free flow of information about computer security. For good or bad, they passed (and still pass, thank you) information about computer security for everyone.
JP apparently feels that to get security information, you have to play the high-school popularity games of "I'm in the gang. Don't ask us if you're not" when he himself is at best a collecter of script kiddie attacks.
Gee, JP, where did you get your information? Did you (GASP!) HACK something? Now, was it YOUR system?
Really, Slashdot, I thought better of you.
"We apologize for the inconvenience."
OK, so everyone hates JP. But this is a chance to ask him some questions to his face - Slashdot is giving you the opportunity to quiz your nemesis on all those things that are bugging you - why boycott slashdot for that?!?
--
Everything I know in life I learnt from
Giving this idiot a soapbox to ramble on will do no good in the long run. No matter how poorly he responds to the legitimate questions at hand, he will undoubtedly twist the truth about this interview in his favor on his garbage website. Knowing him he has already started seeking legal action against those here that have posted less than appealing comments about him. By granting him an interview I have lost some respect for slashdot.
As in subject.
I've got a list of ALL 10 questions every /.er wants to know:
John,
1) When will you go away?
2) Can you make it any sooner?
3) What can we, as a community, do to speed your departure?
4) When you leave, will you promise not to return?
5) Are you still here?
6) You haven't left yet?
7) Go.
8) Leave.
9) Scram.
10) Can you take Katz with you?
-- Don't Tase me, bro!
JP, do you think of yourself as the IT equivalent to Bill Clinton or Bill Gates?
After all, people who are entrenched in IT Security despise you, however the clueless dimwits in the IT society respect and even like you.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
I'm seeing a lot of comments that end up not actually being questions. I realize that JP is controversial, but that doesn't change the fact that this is a Q&A session. How smart do you think posting a comment(offtopic! Whatever happened to impartial moderation?) about the declining standards of Slashdot makes you look? The answer is : not very. You end up looking more than a little childish in an I'm-taking-my-ball-and-going-home sort of way. I don't think I need any help form the likes o' you in deciding who the clueless morons of the world are, and I'll decide what JP is AFTER he answers.
I mean, like, duh!
-nme!
Actually, if you read as much about him, from his sources AND the sources against him, people can determine his character for themselves. I say, lets hear his side, and then if he can't produce anything to give himself credit, then ignore him. Obviously, he has some power to cause this much fuss, and just ignoring him won't make him go away. Listen, and then critise. If he has no basis, then he shall crumble.
I always believed that you can't hide your true self. It always comes out in the end. If you are fake, then it will eventually show. If you are honest and have integrity, then you shall stand strong.
Let him determine his own fate. Let him speak, then let him have it.
Steven Rostedt
Steven Rostedt
-- Nevermind
Apathy truly is the coldest emotion. Nothing can freeze someone as cold as ignoring them. Completely. Utterly.
I am annoyed, however, that Signal 11 over there used a term to describe this tool that he tried applying to me once (as seen here.. well the reply to that, to be precise). Grr. ;)
~ Kish
It appears to me that some malicious Hacker has compromised the AntiOnline site and removed all useful information that it may have once contained. All I found upon visiting in their page were links to other pages and self gratifying articles about how good they are at whatever it is they do.
-- Hail Eris
It's been open for two months now. http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=99/09/22/086251 &mode=thread Here's the new site: http://www.securify.com/packetstorm/ The new host is security firm Kroll-O'Gara, at http://www.securify.com/ I really wish a href tags would work for me again. J.
damned vulpine http://sb.drtwister.com/
But John Vranesevich?
He is arguably the most despised figure in the h(cr)acker community, with Carolyn Meinel neck and neck. Both of them follow the same ideals and public image. What's that? Being a FAKE. Vranesevich has shown many many times that he has absolutely no clue about real computer security, and has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt in my mind that he goes to disgusting lengths to get a story, i.e.: "Hey, here's some cash. Hack that site, and let me cover it." (Attrition's site has remarkable backing for this theory.)
What's more, Vranesevich absolutely cannot stand being criticized. Any site which puts up content that criticizes, parodies, or shows Vranesevich to be a fraud, he throws a fit, cries, and threatens legal action. Attrition, Innerpulse, PacketStorm all have received threats. (At one point, Slashdot ran a less-than-flattering story about him, and I E-Mailed CmdrTaco letting him know that he quite possibly might get possible legal action from JP. (Nothing happened, but everyone knew it could have.)
You may be wondering how I know all of this. Well, a long long time ago, JP was an operator in a very large IRC channel on undernet. I happened to be an op too. The difference is, I still am. He knows I know him, as does everyone in the channel. We knew him when he was a small time loser. He's still a loser, but now just big-time.
Which is why I'm puzzled, amazed, and quite frankly disappointed that Slashdot chose him for an interview. He's not at all insightful, and can't offer any kind of intelligence to this forum.
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
How do you respond to allegations that the FBI is investigating your knowledge of attacks before they happened and the accusations by some hackers who performed said attacks that you paid them or otherwise coerced them to do it in order to have coverage for your website?
Why do you feel that sites containing satirical humor based antionline are not protected by law and therefore open to your threats of legal action?
"Trouble is, just because it's obvious doesn't mean it's true"
"Trouble is, just because it's obvious doesn't mean it's true"
--Terry Pratchett
Eh, skip it. Assuming any of the "atrocities" leveled at you are true, why would you try them? What possible benefit could there be to try and deceive people on the Internet, where information is rarely more than a few clicks away?
J.
damned vulpine http://sb.drtwister.com/
http://www.attrition.org/negation/t ml
http://www.attrition.org/negation/index2.html
http://www.attrition.org/negation/links.html
http://www.attrition.org/negation/www/tech.01.h
Can't find the article where JP confuses a nuclear plant in Israel with one in India. That was funny...
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
What CS degrees do you have? For how many years have you worked as an administrator/programmer? Under whom did you work, and can they vouch for your expertise?
Doctors amputate Turkish earthquake survivor's arm [This story contains video]
"Whatever happened to fair use?"
-- Duff-Man
found it.
;)
http://www.reznor.com/news/cwd0899.html
I'm saving this one
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
I've kept one lazy Eye on the subject at hand. While I could spout my beliefs, I would instead like to give a listing of places to visit so you could make up your own mind. A good portion of what is out there is negative. JP has made a few too many enemies. And those enemies are quite vocal. OK, I will spout a little bit. I think most of what he has done is juvenile and a bit underhanded. However, I've never really heard his side of the story. JP tends to hurl inflammatory remarks towards his accusers instead of actually debating the subject. Anyhoo:
/ 0927.htm
i g=&restrict=&exclude=&method=and&words=ant ionline
o n&q=%2Bantionline+%2Burl%3Amsnbc.com&kl=XX &stype=stext
% 2Bantionline+%2Burl%3Awired.com&kl=XX&pg=q
% 2Bantionline+-url%3Aantionline.com&kl=XX&p g=q
http://www.attrition.org/negation/
http://kuruption.cha0s.org/jp/jp.html
http://www.forbes.com/columnists/penenberg/1999
http://www.antioffline.com
http://www.antionline.com
http://www.happyhacker.org
Try running a query on HNN's news archives:
http://www.hackernews.com/cgi-bin/htsearch?conf
Try specific queries with AO and certain News Orgs:
http://www.altavista.com/cgi-bin/query?pg=q&sc=
http://www.altavista.com/cgi-bin/query?sc=on&q=
Search Altavista for the keyword Antionline, but exclude any from that domain:
http://www.altavista.com/cgi-bin/query?sc=on&q=
I'm sure there is more, but I cannot think of any off hand.
Reality is like a Suitcase, we only take it out of storage when needed. -penfold
In a recent article on Antionline entitled "Can You Trust Them?" you discuss the responsibilities of major security firms to their clients.One of your concerns is that these major companies (well, you only name one) sometimes keep contacts with known malicious hackers. As you yourself have demonstrated in the past, those responsible for bringing security-related information to the public often speak to known malicious hackers to get the inside story. How do you feel the need to verify sources differs for the press and security professionals? Where should security professionals go to get the inside story? The press? Where do editorials fit into the search for trustworthy security information? Please outline the differences in responsibility between press and security professionals.
Paper Pusher
You have a link to the New York Times 'report,' which is a bunch of FUD, yet you do not link the Forbes article, which is more subjective and has a generally better perspective. That is rather lacking.
9 27.htm
At the very least, I would have linked them both, to give a more complete perspective. I would not consider OSAll's 'boycott AntiOnline campaign' a good comparison, in all honesty.
Perhaps you were just not aware of the Forbes article. (I forget whether you reported it in the past.) If that is the case, you are forgiven.
Please take a moment to read the Forbes article if you are truly interested in this subject. It is available at: http://www.forbes.com/columnists/penenberg/1999/0
Regards,
WHiTe VaMPiRe\Rem
In your prescient wisdom were you somehow foreshadowing becoming the bane of the hacker and internet community when you came up with "AntiOnline" as the name for your site?
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Are the rumors that you will be spinning off a sister site called Anti-Anti-Anti-Online to dispell the malicious accusations and deprecations of your obviously magnanimous professionalism and intellect and to further bolster the image of Anti-Online and your integrity as a computer-security-expect-guru-enthusiast, true?
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
yes, i have already read interviews recently on most of these people, but the interviews were very good and/or entertaining and i'd like to see more.
(in no particular order)
1. Fyodor, aka CyberPsychotic (insecure.org)
2. anybody from cDc (cultdeadcow.com)
3. anybody from L0pht Heavy Industries (l0pht.com)
4. Silicon Toad (Infinity Void, hackers.com)
5. Brian Martin, aka Jericho, aka cult_hero (Attrition.org)
6. Netmask (mindsec.com, 303.org)
7. Marcus Ranum (NFR.com)
8. John Young, of Cryptome fame (jya.com)
9. Aleph1, of BUGTRAQ (securityfocus.com)
10. Tim May
Bonus interviews:
any FBI agent
any NSA employee
any CIA operative
Hemos
--
-- ken williams
You mean we get to clean, fillet and fry him up?
Cool!
Although I imagine he would taste largely of ***hole.
Seeing slashdot contribute to the fame of such a character just really disgusts me.
.02
There are few things that really rankle me on slashdot - even Microsoft BS I can take in stride. But I have to strongly back akmed on this one. JP is a pariah and if he deserves anything outside of being ignored, it's a lawsuit.
I'm really disappointed with Slashdot.
My
Quux26
My
Quux26
www.crashspace.net
by NME
There are a lot of security information sites on the net, of varying quality. Why should I read AntiOnline? I suppose I'm wondering what you feel that you're adding/offering that makes you unique.
by mochaone
Why are you hated so damn much and do you care?
by Rabbins
How do you define your current role? -and- How do you see your role in the future?
by platypus
What were your most important works in the security related area, ie. posting to relevant(!) mailing lists (let's say bugtraq, ntbugtraq, RISK), articles in magazines, papers or lectures?
by Kintanon
What is the basis for your attacks on security experts such as Attrition.org?
by imac.usr
What's your opinion on the security of wireless standards like 802.11? Are devices like the AirPort secure enough, and if so, for how long?
Additional question of my own:
Why are you so law-suit happy with your detractors and rivals? A lot of people have critized you for this, from fellow security sites to Forbes magazine. How does it help you (if it does)? If it doesn't help you then why do you do it?
Attilla The Huh: Elephants...over mountains...why?
Hitler: Why not just go with a goatee?
Satan: How did you get Bill Gates' mom to mate with a jackal?
Sadaam Hussein: Don't you think berets are just a little too French, if you know what I mean?
Newt Gingrich: How does it feel to serve divorce papers to your wife while she's dying of cancer?
Hates people who have stupid little sigs
"Katz and JP simply tear it apart--leading to flame and dogma."
/sparks/ discussion on issues. You have to credit him for that. He's out of his environment but willing to try and learn. To me that is the most redeeming quality in anybody. I think with even the most wrongheaded or overdone articles, Katz adds value to Slashdot. Nobody needs to make personal attacks on him. If he didn't care he could abandon Slashdot any time he wanted.
A lot of people like to take pot shots at Katz because it's easy. Sure Katz is often sensational and promotional...he can't escape his journalistic roots...but at least he
On the other hand, I think JP adds no value to anything. In fact, I think the net value of the system would increase if AntiOnline and JP were eliminated.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
maybe ... i see the point that it's good of slashdot to hang it out there for our opinions and input. ...
but
hosting him only admits that Slashdot thinks he's got *some* credibility. What would you think of i.e. the New York Times (just an example of a major publication) if they gave an interview to the head of the KKK (random example of someone usually considered 'bad')?--- you'd
think "what the heck are they doing down at the NYtimes that they'd stumble upon such and idea? Sure, he can think what he wants, but why is the NYTimes even allowing him airtime?"
this would seem to be a bad interview choice on slashdot's part.
'The page you are being refered by is a known hacker website...'
"Can you please explain how you classified Slashdot, a site which reports news, does interviews, and encourages discussion as a Hacker website?"
And even so, what is the point of banning travelers who have come from a supposed "hacker" site. Is there something you want to hide from people who know better?
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
...will slashdot interview me as well? Or will I have to piss everyone in the Community (security and otherwise) off first? Or maybe just prove loudly that I have no idea what I'm talking about, and that I'm in it for the money?
Why not interview someone who is actually involved with computer and network security instead of sensationalism? Someone important, like Cheswick? Or a team of decent security people, like the folks who make raptor firewalls? Or anyone in the entire freaking world besides JP?
"They're interviewing JP? The quality of slashdot has hitten an all-time low", "I used to read slashdot all the time, but now that they're interviewing JP I'm never coming back here again" OK, those aren't exactly what people said, but they're close enough. Those have to be the most retarded reasons I've ever heard for disliking something. I can't imagine what kind of hell that would break loose if they interviewed Bill Gates... Anyways, for JP: How come when I told you me and a friend took over a server at my school with all the records on it, (which was merely a vhost on our schools computer pointing to a box owned by my friend, we were using at the time to mess around with friends heads... perfectly legal...) you were all, um, enthusiastic i guess, until we wouldn't give you any information about ourselves?
Though you're entitled to your own opinion, I disagree. Katz and JP are the same breed. Neither are interested in "learning". I don't really care how acclimated Katz is to the "environment"--It is irrelevant to me. Though, Katz understands the "environment" on slashdot better than most, in a manipulative kind of way --that which ills slashdot. He knows which buttons to push on the longhair, psuedo communist/Open Source/intellectual, liberal, pro-geek crap.
What I care about is the fact that he ADDS nothing to this world. If he wishes to write books, that is his business. But when he is given a forum on slashdot regularly, I take issue. The fact of the matter is that he has an incentive to write for slashdot, I assure you. Maybe he wishes to "signal" to the publishers that his books are popular, by directing slashdot readership to it, thus creating further demand for his books. Quid Pro Quo. Or perhaps, he feels that he can better sell books by understanding and interacting with the slashdot mentality, his readership. I don't know what his motives are exactly, but they strike me as entirely based in self-interest.
In either case, I don't believe he is sincere. Even if he is, he isn't adding anything that I want to read or discuss at length. Every one his articles has provided an alarmist or "hypist" tone. He also turns on his words repeatedly. In short, I see no redeeming value to his writings, and many downsides.
... and I always have been.
I want to know what this guy thinks. I am not worried about him becoming the next pariah or something merely because slashdot links to him!
We have others comparing this to interviewing Satan, or giving credit to those who deny the Holocaust. Well, to be honest, I would be curious to hear from them as well. But I do not need you, or others to formulate my opinions, protect me, or worry about me endorsing someone you hate.
From everything I have read, heard and seen, I can not stand the guy either. If he were standing on a corner in my neighborhood yelling to a crowd, I would most likely walk right on by. But this is a chance to read someone's opinions vastly different than mine and the great majority of those on this forum... and the great thing, is that he will be responding to challenges made from people who openly can't stand him. That is a little different than listening to him rant and rave. I simply like to hear different views, no matter how twisted, insane, eveil and stupid they might be.
Ignore him if you would like... you probably know a lot more about him than I do. But I want to hear from him, and I bet there are others who would like to also. If he is encouraged by this attention, well... so be it.
"Trouble is, just because it's obvious doesn't mean it's true"
"Trouble is, just because it's obvious doesn't mean it's true"
--Terry Pratchett
That's the way to go! I don't give a crap what this guy thinks about anything, and I suspect that the percentage of /.'ers who are actually interested in getting his opinion on anything is so low that it's not worth the interview. What the majority of /.'ers want to do is ignore him and I think that's what we should do. He has been slamming reputable sites without decent justification, and most of what he publishes is a joke. He's only really interested in his image; he just wants to be popular. Highlightning him here on /. just serves to further his ego and makes him think he's all the more important. What most /.'ers *really* want to tell him is that he's a sham, and he knows next to nothing about what he claims to specialize in. The absolute LAST thing we want to do is make him think he's important. It's that praise that feeds every negative and counter-productive (from a community POV) thing that he does. Let's tell him what we really think of him, and work to educate the rest of the media.
I'm just wondering what your opinion is of Carolyn Meinel. For example, how did it come about that Heppy Hacker and AntiOnline became so closely linked? (you hosting mail servers and so forth)
Cynic
For being a self-proclaimed security enthusiast, rumor has it that you've never actually attended any "hacker" con. Is this true? If so, what and when was it, and if not, why have you avoided them for so long.
Cynic
Isn't it true that these things have contributed strongly to your lack of credibility?
I have to agree. I stumbled accorss JP's site by accident, without knowing his history and reputation. But after a couple of weeks of reading his news stories and the Mailbag responses he would post, I came to realize this guy had nothing to offer me. He seemed combatant and inflamatory, posting "straw men" and just ripping them apart. Granted, you are entitled to do what you want with your hate mail, but if you have ever read the mailbag, you know what I mean.
Again, this was all without any prior knowledge of his history and his reputation. You could call it objective (whatever that means). My "objective" opinion of him after a few weeks of reading--NOT WORTH READING.
So, it is with GREAT disappointment that I see this article post. Why would we EVER care what he has to say? What are we going to do? Interview Jess Berst and ask him how he can be so clueless yet have a job as a tech-beat writer? I mean, come on! There are dozens and dozens of great and talented people I would rather hear from than people of JP's infamy.
."Doubt your doubts and believe your beliefs." -- Switchfoot, Ode to Chin
Aroung the time you changed Anti-online's "focus", I wrote an article about my personal experience with crackers. I submitted my piece along with my disapproval to your feedback forum and to osOpinion.com
I never receive any kind of response from you or anyone else in the hacker community. You all seem to be so obsessed with flaming yourselves and others that you fail to recognize the impact of your actions have on the rest of us.
You claim that now you are are on "the good side" but to the community at large you are regarded with extreme hostility, and your actions appear from many sources to appear to be nothing but imflamitory. I honestly ask you what good do you think you do when you have managed to ailinated most of the major forces involved in the security establishment?
I just checked out your site for the first time in quite some time, and I had to wonder something. First off, I'd think that a security related site would value privacy of it's visitors. But then, when i came across the LinuxPPC box that you adopted, you've posted hackers IP addresses and Host Names. I recall you doing that with a "hack attempts" page logging all the alleged hack attempts against your site.
This one puzzles me because the "attackers" aren't doing anything wrong. You've invited them to "attack" that computer. Yet you treat them with the same level of respect as you do any other "cracker"...
--------------
I tried to keep this nice and just address the issue at hand. Please, nobody start lecturing the difference between hacker and cracker! It's just he's got all this info posted here and, though it's one thing to make alleged attacks public, I feel it's another thing entirely to reveal the identies of people whom he's invited to attack his site.
That's all.
Considering ihs history of litigation threats I'm sure this entire interview will either be him defending his actions or a fluff piece to avoid getting sued. Either way it ain't gonna be much of a read.
Hey slashdot editors! I know you are busy, and maybe that's why you thought interviewing JP would be a great idea. I've already posted a comment on why I think this is a very bad idea. So I thought I would try and be productive. Here is a list of people who are of the right caliber to merit an interview (that is to say, try interviewing great folk like this FIRST before wasting your time and ours on JP):
(from the 1999 Free Software Award Nominee page)
Granted, some of these have been covered already, but maybe a handful at the most. I must confess to maybe knowing who 10% of these people are. I would sure like to know something about the rest of them. Just imagine all the cool stuff each of these people has to offer--why in the world are we looking to interview inflamatory, damaging people like JP?
Just trying to help :-) I figure 80 some odd suggestions should keep you busy for a while.
"Doubt your doubts and believe your beliefs." -- Switchfoot, Ode to Chin
I have two questions for our *ahem* esteemed guest..
1. What kind of qualifications do you have that make you a computer security "expert"? Please be specific.
2. I have never seen any mention of your name or site (as opposed to l0pht, rfp, ect) in regards to finding exploits, patching holes, making tools, and generally improving computer security. Please explain what you have done to help improve computer security for the masses.
GH
Jesus saves souls and will redeem them for valuable prizes.
Just wait till some crappy band steals your nic.
Roblimo, etc. should be quaking in their boots when they submit the questions they cull off the top of the discussion! *smirk*
Lib.BENCH the only site you'll ever need!
i'd have said, he doesn't know his scrotum from Kentucky Fried Chicken; but that's just me.
What do you think about Carolyn Meinel? See any similarities?
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Here's a couple of questions... 1. Have you paid restitution or provided any sort of compensation to the people's or company's sites you have personally hacked into in your 'notorious' youth ? 2. Aren't the techniques you employ just as illegal or invading of privacy as the hackers you have sworn to hunt down ?
Fast, cheap, correct. You get to pick two.
You're just bitter from previous discussions with me. e.g.,0 /1253219&cid=136
http://www.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=99/10/3
1. I don't read his crap anymore. Though Katz hype articles DO take away from that "critical" mass that is formed in other discussions, thus hurting me.
2. I, and others, just might stop reading slashdot, if things don't improve. But I won't go without a "fight", so to speak.
3. I'm actually in the process of doing something much like that, though with a different spin.
4. Other parties are more than entitled to express their opinions, but that doesn't mean that I can't desire not to see it on slashdot. You'd hardly advocate Bill Gates' right to post FUD on here regularly...or KKK (et.al).
5. You're obsessed with "factual" arguments. Because the editors know what they are doing perfectly well, I do not need to "prove" anything. In truth, the only thing that really matters is that significant portions of the mature readership here object to Katz articles. Instead of wasting time, I provide them with a financial argument as to why they shouldn't shrug off editorial control.
Additionally, I don't need "factual" arguments. In fact, these "factual" arguments are numerous on Katz's articles--they ARE the problem. Though it is true that I have posted comments on a Katz's thread, I won't sustain the argument like many others will.
PS: If you think all action and argument must be made on "fact", then you're a bigger fool than I thought. Your notion of "fact" is statistics. The fact of the matter is that statistics are easily bent. There is a saying "There are three kinds of lies in this world: lies, damn lies, and statistics."
You don't need to know the exact statistics to know that driving drunk is dangerous, you can be reasonably confident though when you OBSERVE multiple friends that have died in such crashes that it is infact dangerous.....and pssst, Since when does Katz bring "fact" into his arguments? By your reasoning, since he lacks "facts" he can make no claims about: society, law, computing, etc.
I have a few questions that I would like to ask him. Although God might tell the truth more.
-- Slashdot sucks.
As I understood it, the interview section of Slashdot was there for us to hear from acknowledged experts and/or controversial figures involved within different technology fields. I think its pretty clear based on the postings that most people don't find JP to be an expert in any field. Then the question remains, is he a good candidate for this area? Does being controversial alone merit him the chance to sound off? In some cases, I might say "yes" however in this case I don't. JP has shown himself, time and time again, to be a young man with no professional ethic or interest in forwarding anything other than his own agenda. As an avid reader of Slashdot, I personally would hate to see it stoop so low. There are a number of far more knowledgeable/interesting people in technology today. I have no real desire to hear anything he has to say (and frankly anything he says is suspect). I don't think the expected flame-fest is really worth it. Let's find someone worth talking to. Perhaps Mike Shiffman has some time?
Yeah, let's lynch them for trying to make money doing something they love!
Would you rather that the site merely collapsed because they were out getting "real jobs" and no longer had the time to maintain it.
Then you would have something else to bitch about.
Give me a fucking break. Yes, they want increased banner ad revenues... Katz helps bring that in. Guess what!? It's on purpose! Guess what else!? Topics are delibarately set to spur geek mania (Hell, they even call it News for Nerds)!
You are either a horribly jealous hypocrite, or entertain extremely lofty ideals and better be living as a monk somewhere. Since you must have access to a computer, my guess is that you are a hypocrite.
Do you feel affected in any way by your being labeled a pariah by the hacker community?
Do you feel that enough people are taking corporate and governmental threats to personal privacy and security seriously?
Do you feel that denying the community at large access to a resource like packetstorm (for whatever temporary time you did) was worth it to protect your image?
Do you feel that your image is any less tarnished because of your actions against packetstorm?
Curiosity?!? My ass! He stole shit! -T. Carpenter
You claimed to be working for NASA, the Air Force, and the NSA. None of these organizations would claim to have anything to do with you.
Explain, please?
good. fast. cheap. (pick any two, you can't have all three)
Check out http://www.forbes.com/column ists/penenberg/1999/0927.htm. On forbes.com, second paragraph
--
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Interview Ken Williams instead, at least he's honest.
.02
Why do we pay homage to this putz? Would the LinuxExpo bring Gates as a keynote speaker?! Get Ken Williams on here to provide him with some support. It's the least we can do for the guy.
My
Quux26
My
Quux26
www.crashspace.net
Several months ago I was raided by FBI for supposed involvement with the "hacker" group gh. The extent of my involvement was participating, as a caller only, in illegally funded phone conferences. JP, who also participated in this conferences, labeled me as a hacker, and a member of gh on his "news" site. Neither of these accusations are true. He has many more ties to this and other hacker groups than I have ever had. My first question is this; If you label me a hacker, than do you label yourself one? Are you in your little database of supposed computer criminals? Secondly, How can you pretend to be taking a stand against "hackers" while you are involved in the same activities?
My third question is in regards to your coverage of the situation. You posted unconfirmed information from an unreliable source in regards to the status of my employment at a prominent software development company. As a result of this I was contact by several news agencies, and immediately stereotyped as a hacker even though I have never illegally penetrated any computer system, nor had I been charged with, or accused of any crimes by the FBI. In response to this I granted one news agency an interview, which I thought went well, but also backfired. As a result of the negative press my former employer could not even consider allowing me to stay. My question being, Do you expect people to consider you as a reliable news source even though you report data which you receive through unreliable channels? And lastly, Did you ever stop to think what the impact of your coverage might be? It seems to me that in your rush for the big story you have failed to check for the correctness in your articles, and as a result of this you are hurting innocent people, such as myself. I'm sure this has gone on in other cases, but mine is the only one I have enough knowledge to comment on. I don't attribute these unfortunate events to you, but you certainly did not follow good news practices in reporting them. You have only served to injure my credibility and your own.
Lastly, have you ever considered what legal action may be taken against you for your involvement with these criminals? Do you even recognize the hypocrisy of your stance on hackers being one yourself by your own definition?
Sincerely,
Jeff
I see any maintainer of a website as a service provider. Not an ISP (necessarily), but someone who enjoys letting the entire world in on something that they couldn't possibly get anywhere else - something that could be (and usually is) informative and enlightening. As the chief guy of what is unquestionably one of the most controversial websites out there in the hacking/cracking community, how do you feel about all of your opponents who attempt to tear you down? Do you ever feel like cutting off the "service" after witnessing all the criticism?
-- BlueCalx | http://nickd.org/
I admit to not being a hardcore hack. I am right up there with ameture. I have read up on this big stink and all I have to say is shut the SOB down. I don't care so much about his articles being screwed up, freedom of speech gives him the right to be a moron. But to not allow others that same right and to slander their good names takes it way to far. I challenge anyone to find one shred of evidence to back up any of the claims made by anti-online and its infamous owner.
Hmm. /. is owned by a company now -- a company going IPO soon. Companies make money off web sites by enticing people to visit the site often, which makes the site more worthwhile to advertisers to advertise on.
/. helps make them money, which is what companies do. Just sort of what happens... [shrug]
Having very controversal interviews on
Unfortunately (your post not withstanding), the level of intelligent discussion seems to have been dropping steadily in the last six months, maybe even as far back as a year ago. Popularity among the flame-fest loving crowd seems to have driven down the average intelligence level. -A disgusted oldtimer who no longer logs in.
/.'s intelligence level will go down, as with anything as the number of people using goes up. Just look at what happend to usenet. (Systems with stupid users won't atract anyone) I'm sorry, just set your threshold high and be happy. *obviously* Rob, Hemos, and Kats want more readers, not less, since the majority of there site content comes from us.
The fact is,
--
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Over the past 3 months there have only been 3 original articles on Antionline not written by JP himself. No articles in October or November at all. Where has the Antionline staff gone to? Are they defecting or just busy with more important things?
-weld
1) Slashdot is a single interest. Members of many communities intersect here, but your extraction from M-W does not validate your claim. Geek community, hacker community, these make sense. Geeks read this site. Hackers read this site. Other kinds of people read this site. This does not bind us all into a supercommunity any more than there is, say, an Austin-American Statesman community (local newspaper). Make sense?
2) Signal 11 was emphatically joking with regards to that quip about karma (which is to say, he brags about it in a very joking manner, because he's not real concerned).
Do we really need to draw blood over this? It's beginning to grate. Usually only lawyers split hairs with regards to semantic nonsense.
~ Kish
Do you ever regret any of the decisions you've made concerning the packetstorm incident, working with Carolyn Meinel, and the like?
Do you believe people still find what you have to say to be credible?
With such examples as the disproved accusation you made against the employees of attrition.org and the role you played in the shutting down of the security web site www.packetstorm.com.
How would you respond to a comment that was made about your lack of credibility and/or the distrust that seems to surround your persona?
"Help me Obi-/.-Kenobi,your my only hope!" -$
What,(if there is indeed) the future of antionline looking at from the economic point of view? concerning new projects, and possible associations. Do you consider ANTIONLINE.COM a profitable organization? -so to speak?
----====___SUBLIME___OR___NOTHING___====----
I don't really know how you could compare the two, Jessie Ventura's just a guy who got elected to Govenor. He's a little 'diffrent' then most polititions, but really that's for the better.
JP, on the other hand is aberant not only to the 'hacker community' but to humanity in general. Nothing else needs to be said about him, although I am intrested in reading this interview...
--
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Actualy, the origional hack LinuxPPC chalage did the same thing. It didn't seem 'wrong' in anyway, basicaly like keeping score in a game. The 'intruders' had nothing to hide....
--
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
After all, that is something Slashdot indubitably is! On the other hand, he seems to have been treating it as meaning the same as "Cracker" or "Trespasser", which few (if any) on Slashdot are.
(I suspect the few genuine "crackers" on Slashdot - note the difference between C and c - are very different from the sort of people he imagines. As for Script Kiddies, you get them everywhere. I think they're one of those Super Bugs that the medical profession is so concerned about.)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Andover.net has no creative control of the site. Crative control was maintaned by Rob "CmndrTaco" Malda, and the other posters (Hemos, Katz, roblimbo, etc).
This was exsplicitly stated in there contract. Also, Rob (and Maybe hemos) sit on andover's board...
--
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
I love JP for his hard work and dedication to suing everyone who mentions his lame websites, http://www.anti*.com. I have been active in the shun antionline project and an avid reader of attrition.org. I went so far as to post a contest on my website (which isnt always up) to see who can get the most docs on JP. I now have his phone number and various other fun information. Id just like to ask JP why he lies, cheats, writes malicious stories, and blames most of the "evil hacker attacks" on actually decent innocent people. As for his shit filled Granny Hacker from heck business, its a load too if you couldnt figure it out. Someone broke into her computer and got her bash log and amazingly enough, she used DOS commands, but instead of stopping to see why they didnt work, she kept on using them over and over. She couldnt hack her way out of a wet, soggy paper bag if she had a chainsaw. JP is just a fraud. When he would chill on IRC in the utterly "3l33t" #hackphreak channel everyone would love to kick him out and ban him. JP has committed fraud numerous times, and I am dead serious. He steals content for his website and his "hacked archive" mirrors etc. He lied about tons of things, from "evil hackers" to source code. I remember one incident from a site that like segfault.org, mocked everything that is life, although it seemed a little closer to reality. They posted a story about some made up hacking group cracking into 30 consecutive top secret military servers, but put a comment in the HTML file that said "This is all bogus! -the management" and when lo and behold antionline had a news article about that group, they actually had cut the complete article (in the source), from the timestamp at the top to the last sentence, including the comment. You can see pictures and copies of the file on various sites. I dont have any serious questions because there are none to be asked. All I want to know is why he says he runs unix... when I have seen pictures of his shitty apartment which is filled with iMacs. I love you JP... you goat-fiending fag.
-love wh0rde
[w00t@freaky.bish]# rm
jay pee, why are you so fscking annoying??? youre the biggest fscking arsehole in the world!!!!
-- your knees hurt, don't they?
Admittedly I hate JP and everything he allegedly stands for, but the outcry against SlashDot is quite absurd. JP, like it or not, is a member of the "community." If you wish to show him to be a fool, degenerate, or a fake, simply ask him a question which shows his ignorance.
I do know people who knew JP before AntiOnline gained its fame, and apparantly he was a soul-sucking worm of a person. I've heard that he spent so much time working on AntiOnline that he forgot to bathe, or work towards his High School education.
But then again, how many of us have done the same for our little obsessions?
The hype surrounding this man is amazing, and the fine people at SlashDot know this. As SlashDot has a greater tendency towards understanding those of our mentality, it is left to them to make an attempt to show us the truth behind this man. If SlashDot wants to do a feature on him, let them do a feature. God forbid they come up with potentially useful (or at the least amusing) knowledge.
So, now I guess I will ask a question Why do you hide behind malevolence towards a subculture you don't understand?
That is all.
--
If there is a God, you are an authorized representative. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
BITCH WHINE AND MOAN the whole time today!!!! Man its like you people dont have anything better to do. Why do you crack a site or an encryption scheme? To show it up, why do you ask tough questions because either get good answers or stupid responses. "Better to be perceived a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt." What I heard every last post today, whine "He sucks, he shouldnt be here. He sues everyone." Personally, I dont give a crap less but you all choose to go into bitch mode instead of putting your thinking caps on. BTW, if someone had put shit about my family on a website, number 1 I wouldnt have threatend to sue I would have taken my metal softball bat to the somebody's ass. As far as being credited for work, hey more power to him. If he can get favorable mainstream media coverage all the more better. No smart questions, no stupid answers here people and the cycle propagates itself. SOOOOOO, either a. shut him up with good questions or b. quit bitching about him and not knowing anything and being able to spread his image throughout the media land. Hangtime
b.) Do you honestly expect people to ever take you seriously again, if they had even the slightest modicum of interest in you before?
Incidentally, I had never heard of you before my friends in the security field made me aware of your general stupidity and libelous mannerisms. Did you and Carolyn get the _Secrets of a Superhacker_ book lovingly signed by 303? :)
-steve
Thanks for the link!
/. force is reading *any* of these comments, *please* reconsider this interview. I have been reading /. for close to 2.5 years, and this is the lowest, the absolutely lowest pile of shit I have ever seen. And personally, I really do not mind Jon Katz. He makes me think, sometimes; if I don't agree with him, I don't.
If any of the
But this is the lowest. Please do NOT go through with this interview for two reasons:
1) If this interview goes badly, or JP thinks his good name (okay, I can't say that without laughing) is being tarnished, legal action will be taken. Of course, Andover lawyers may be up to the challenge, but is this a headache you *really* want to deal with?
2) *MANY* loyal readers, myself included will leave. This technocrat.net looks not to shabby; it reminds me of a little web site I used to visit during the spring of 1997 that challenged me, made me proud to be a geek, and introduced me to a greater world. That site used to be this one.
"Don't mind me cutting myself on Occam's Razor"
I must agree that there seem to be a bit of sensationalism over the choice of person to interview. However if the case is (which I personally believe to be more the truth) that jp posseses all the negative traits that he's been accused of, then this interview should help bring about his fall. The only way to let people know the truth about jp is to bring him out in the light, let everybody ask him, if he chooses to not answer the questions which are of critical nature or doesnt produce a good rebuttal to those questions, it will only help to bring about the fall of his credibility among those who still have some left. I believe that many people from The new york times, Wired and other prominent publications read slashdot. This will help them and others to learn the truth about jp. It is possible that slashdot might help the community by posting this interview. I haven't seen jp post anything in defence to all the accusations that have been brought forward. Not on his website or any other place. This is the time for jp to defend himself and if he cant do that, then a lot of people will se that and he's credibility will fail. On a little side note: People complain over that slashdot changes. Slashdot is not the same thing now, that it was a year ago, and it will not be the same thing in one year, everything changes over time, the old slashdot that many knew is forever gone. Slashdot in it current state is not eternal, everything changes over time. Especially slashdot. There are a lot of people behind Slashdot. Those people who chooses the stories for slashdot change over time, the people who post on slashdot changes and there is also an increase over time, raising the probability for flames and other positive or negative comments. Everyone changes, I am not today, the same being I was a year ago. Everything/everyone changes nothing is constant. (arrgh I know im a bit repetitive but im tired)
I must agree that there seem to be a bit of sensationalism over the choice of person to interview. However if the case is (which I personally believe to be more the truth) that jp posseses all the negative traits that he's been accused of, then this interview should help bring about his fall.
The only way to let people know the truth about jp is to bring him out in the light, let everybody ask him, if he chooses to not answer the questions which are of critical nature or doesnt produce a good rebuttal to those questions, it will only help to bring about the fall of his credibility among those who still have some left.
I believe that many people from The new york times, Wired and other prominent publications read slashdot. This will help them and others to learn the truth about jp.
It is possible that slashdot might help the community by posting this interview.
I haven't seen jp post anything in defence to all the accusations that have been brought forward. Not on his website or any other place.
This is the time for jp to defend himself and if he cant do that, then a lot of people will se that and he's credibility will fail.
On a little side note:
People complain over that slashdot changes. Slashdot is not the same thing now, that it was a year ago, and it will not be the same thing in one year, everything changes over time, the old slashdot that many knew is forever gone. Slashdot in it current state is not eternal, everything changes over time. Especially slashdot. There are a lot of people behind Slashdot. Those people who chooses the stories for slashdot change over time, the people who post on slashdot changes and there is also an increase over time, raising the probability for flames and other positive or negative comments.
Everyone changes, I am not today, the same being I was a year ago.
Everything/everyone changes nothing is constant.
(arrgh I know Im a bit repetitive and ranting but I am tired so what the heck...)
What qualificaiton do you have to back up your claim of being a security expert? Do you have any degrees? Do you have any certifications? How many years have you been a "Security Expert"? Are there any REAL companies that have used you for security advice?
If you have no answers for these then, What do you think makes a security expert? Is it just claiming that you are good enough?
I would like to see some real responses to these questions and not the usual evasive rude responses you are famous for.
Jas
http://packetnexus.com
NewsTrolls
diva Pasty Drone NewsTrolls, Inc.
Hi John!
/. people were nice enough to give you an interview, I see it as a perfect oppurtunity to ask you some questions i've had:
Seeing how the
What was contained in the "Knowledge Base" that you supposedly shared with government agents?
A few months back, when I still had respect for you and your friend Carolyn, I came home to see you call the administrator for the happyhacker network, and have him take my computer (otter) off the network for actions of the users on IRC. (Log of the event.) To this day, I can not understand what makes you think it's right to silence the thoughts of others through the use of censorship. That was _my_ machine. The question I'm trying to ask is this: Why do you immediately censor all the bad karma focused towards you, why have you never tried to refute the "accusations" with facts?
I think I'm only allowed one question per post, so i'll stop with two. NOTE: I'd really like to see this post chosen because of the personal expriences i've been unfortunate enough to have. But don't pick it if you can't find something better.
My
1. What are your future education goals (general or advanced degrees you intend to pursue), concentrating in what, and at what university/college?
2. Do you intend to write a book (or collaborate on one) in the near future, and if so, what will be the subject (and if collaborating, who with)?
3. Do you feel that you are a "security expert/consultant" and provide a specialized/unique service to the information security community, or are you still struggling with finding your niche in the community while trying to justify titles such as "security expert/consultant"?
--
Beetle
Beetle
http://ruff.cs.jmu.edu/~beetle/
Eh, I can answer that & save him the trouble. I believe his full name is something like John P. Vransevich, hence the JP. Also, his email addresses seem to generally be jp@whatever, so it seems that's what prefers, too.
-mike kania
It would be much better and much more useful I believe. At least Bill has done something good among the whole mess. Antionline has just mess the whole mess even more.
Frankly I consider this an error. Well Antionline was something some time ago. It was a place one could agree/disagree with. But since that "major overhaul" there, the thing is pure crap. Vranesivich has become the Hoagland of the hacker community. He uses lies damn lies and statistics just the same way as he manipulates information, making his site a very dangerous place. It sounds much like a radio Freedom broadcasting over enemy territory. In this point Antionline is a great site. It has gained its point of perfection.
Anyway I would like Vranesevich to answer one simple question: Is Antionline just a metaphora or an intent?
Just-in-case disclaimer: My opinions, here, do not mean that I intend to cause any physical harm to Mr. Vranesevich, his family, his dog or anyone else related directly or indirectly to him.
JP, Could you elaborate on your past troubles with Pitt and explain how you managed to convince them not to throw you out? Could you also expound on your current relationship with Prophet post-Pitt after reports indicated that you left him "holding the bag" as it were?
Except I've actually seen the 4 year old alien dog that birthed Oprah Winfrey's second cousin. So supermarket tabloids have more facts than AntiOnline.
-Chris
> genuine "crackers" on Slashdot - note the difference between C and c
As in "Arrest that man for impersonating a Cracker!"
I suspect you've discovered the reason the media insists on using 'hacker' for 'cracker' -- at least in the USA!
--
It's October 6th. Where's W2K? Over the horizon again, eh?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
1: As of late, the updates to AntiOnline have gotten fewer and fewer, shorter and shorter, and more and more meaningless. Why is this?
2: After your 'change in mission plan' even I saw the change in the content. It, to my opinion, was of less quality and less relevance. I used to read the site every other day or so to check up on the world's security news, but now I stay on top with Security focus and hacker news network. Why did this change in plans change the face of the site so much? couldn't the same content quality have been continued, just from a slightly different perspective?
--onyx--
JP, According to a recent article in the NYT Darice, Inc. provided funding for operation of your site. Evidently Darice is the nation's largest distributor of craft supplies. Can you tell us about the strategic vision of your teaming with this company as well as their goals in regards to Information Systems Security?
Actually, that looks like the handiwork of an automated rant generator. It's scary, in a way, that we've developed computer software that's almost as coherent as the less coherent of Usenet kooks... though the software probably draws from their works for their vocabulary and sentence structure :)
--
Do I look like I speak for my employer?
Unfortunately I don't think he does many interviews. Apparently he did one for Timothy McSweeney's Worldwide Fondness though.
-- $SIGNATURE
Why hasn't this ever occurred? It seems that there is substantial evidence that he has made damaging assertions about persons (e.g. Jericho) that have been proven to be untrue. Now, merely shoddy journalism is not libel, per se, but if there is malice involved then this is potentially illegal. It seems as though an effective way to stop slander and bully tactics would be to merely bring a suit against him. Getting burned in court would make it all the easier for any future victims to claim malice and seek damages.
~Tiroth
802.11 is very secure - Secure according even to military standards. I don't have the exact data handy, but there are basically two variants:
- Direct Sequence Spread Spectrum
- Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum
The good one, accodring to most experts, is FHSS. Your two points of communication agree on a common, long key, and they transmit data shifting their band according to the key. It's nearly impossible to interfere, even harder to decode, and very resistent to frequency jamming.
I suggest you to take a look at Breezecom, they have very good equipment for 802.11 (we use it here in Mexico, no problems whatsoever, very easy to set up, and much more reliable than a wire-based network)
Slashdot folks, you all should be ashamed of yourselves. Who is next on your interview list, Satan himself? JP is the biggest sellout & poser, seeking to elevate his name at any cost, be it hackers, crackers, or broken laws.
the interview will consist of questions posted by us, the readers. If you want to critizise john, do it in questions. Let him make a fool of himself.
If you didn't get it, slashdot just gave us an oportunity to flame the guy to hell and back, and he obviously has commited himself to answer the questions...
:-D
--
"Rune Kristian Viken" - http://www.nwo.no - arca
Hey JP-
Being an old
out of the fray. I'm too busy. Band, business, family, etc. But I do have a question I've thought long and hard about and would like an answer to.
Why don't you kiss my hairy white ass?
i decided to glance at antionline one more time upon reading the comments here.i online&date=11-08-1999&story=trust.news
first thing i see:
Can You Trust Them?
Monday, November 8, 1999 at 11:06:49
Is the security industry your friend, or is the proverbial doctor selling you snake oil?
http://www.antionline.org/cgi-bin/News?type=ant
Read this. it is PATHETIC. Basically it is: jp bashing packetstorm! Apparently not content to dog it to its death, he looks at its new incarnation and, overbrimming with FUD, suspicious statements and things like "the information on packetstorm was compiled by MALICIOUS HACKERS!!".. my God.
I know only a little bit about the whole antionline/packetstorm thing. But even if i'd known _nothing_ it would be pretty obvious just from _reading_ this that this kind of nasty personal attack on a competitor is just totally uncalled for.. blech. i feel dirty having read it.
But you'd think that JP would have kinda sorta realized that having packetstorm shut down was a horrifying dirty act that made him no friends.. and at least had the decency not to immediately attack it once it is brought back from the dead. I guess not?
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
I don't want to hear what JP has to say. The lawsuits, the lies, the overall sleaziness of his character--this material does not interest me. Interview someone else instead. CmdrTaco?
Why should I care about what this man thinks? A man who has gone out of his way to see that a competitor (PacketStorm) with a better product (better info) is put out of business? This seems like a Microsoft tactic.
-----
"A man is judged by his every word." -RW Emerson
"They misunderestimated me." -GW Bush
Sigh, you walk in midstream, put words in my mouth, and act like you should be an arbitrator. A couple points:
1) I put "fact" in quotations for a reason. Mainly because "fact" seems to have a very special meaning for mochaone. If you had read previous comments of his, you would understand this. For instance, he tells me that I have no "proof" that the US tort system need adjustment. Despite my being able to cite numerous companies that have been adversely affected by huge awards...including ones owned by family and friends. Yet, at the same time he effectively states that corporations are "evil" and need to be restrained by force of excessive lawsuits. That is just the tip of the iceberg, and low resolution at that...
2) Slashdot can do whatever it wants to do. That does not mean that I have to remain silent about it. I don't need any proof to say that I, and many others, are growing discontent with the editorial control on slashdot. If the KKK were to be given a podium on slashdot every other day, you're not going to spend hours trying to "disprove" every one of their claims. You simply KNOW it to be untrue, and have better ways to spend your time. Instead, you express your discontent to slashdot; in the hope that, with enough similar complaints, action will be taken. I simply know what Katz is up to, and I refuse to contribute to the problem (e.g., being on the other end of the flame fest doesn't extinguish the flames). Slashdot is not usenet afterall; it IS moderated and editorial controls are used.
3) My problem with JP has NOTHING to do with his use of unsubstantiated claims. JP (whom I know) flat out lies and intentionally distorts the truth. The problem does not lie in the proof, it lies in the person. He is a hack. So to compare me to JP is nonsense.
4) Katz doesn't use "facts". His position is certainly not that of the status quo--he is infact very much of a liberal*. You should try reading his drivel for a change. Futhermore, I'm not writing an article, merely a comment. Because of size and time constraints on slashdot, and particularly its temporal nature, I'm not going to spend a great deal of time "disproving" some silly point.
5) I don't purport every one of my statements to be scientific proof. That is an unreasonable standard, and nothing would happen if every comment had to fit to such a standard. Slashdot is simply not the forum for that. The fact is that there IS utility in a forum with REASONED debate, even if you don't have statistics to back up your claim. You can still develop an argument. However, that by no means, means that it must be swallowed whole and without inspection.
...anyhow, I've wasted enough time on slashdot for a couple days. Bye
I was just wondering what you are going to do if someone actually decides to take you up on an offer to go to court, how would you actually afford a lawyer and court costs as I have read that you hardly have any money to your name. P.S. I say Roblimo sets Ken Williams up for an interview after this poor excuse for one, I would be interested in hearing some of his views on this subject as well as others. --If you have any legit replies, email me them as well, thank you.
-- filgy
JP,
Might I ask if you can code in any other languages aside from HTML?
The Times article mentioned JP's run-in with Pitt CIS. Although I am not affiliated with CIS, I do remember this hoopla.
JP was in a lucky position of being among the first Pitt students to have a dedicated connection in his dorm room. He set up his Anti-Online web page, which at that time contained a little bit of information about Windows insecurity, nothing original, and sought advertiser support and link sharing. Eventually, he had users downloading software from his machine, at Pitt's expense, and advertising revenue from activity at his site.
Understandably, the University noticed this and asked him to stop. Dorm rooms weren't meant to serve commercial sites, in their opinion. They took his connection down because it actually violated the usage code. He claimed it was an important resource. CERT, they said, is right down the street.
Through heat from a friend of his at the Pitt News, there was a commotion made about it and the uninformed urged Pitt to put it back up. We had to read editorial after editorial written by his friend, as though the rest of the PN actually cared. He then dropped out of school with venture funding.
During this commotion he tried to show how punk he really was by demonstrating that there were weaknesses in Pitt's non-production NT system. Pitt ignored these actions, but they didn't have to. The things he demonstrated were things that have been known before NT4 was released. They were things that any respectable NT administrator, especially CIS, would have secured in a production machine. It is highly doubtful in my mind that JP possessed any real knowledge of computer security, he only knew of already-known security exploits.
At best, he demonstrated to Pitt that there are punks who want to prove a point, and Pitt has added superfluous security enhancements just to be on the careful side.
My question for JP is more along the lines of: Do you really think that you're doing any real service, or is the site just ego-perpetuation?
man, when JP was buggin #enforcers about analyzer (hacker in isreal), they were testing his box and he'd left it vulnerable to pretty much all of the DoS exploits known at the time. (of course, all of the windows ones at least :)
I wouldnt trust this guy to reccomend security practices to anyone.
[This is part of an unfinished letter I was in the process of writing to AntiOnline awhile ago... even before the Packet Storm buisness. I am very confident that it is an accurate evaluation of the kind of crowd sites like AntiOnline attract.]
/Please/ email me with feedback, questions, comments, or job offers.]
Hello.
I attend a high school here in a suburb of one of the major cities in the united states. Almost everyone here has a computer and it is just as common for them to subscribe to an internet service provider. Lately, it seems that there are many of these teenagers (or even pre-teens) are interested in computer security. (Or so they claim.)
This in itself is not surprising. Computers have played a large role in the shaping of twentieth-century America. (If I keep talking like this they'll put me on the Discovery Channel.) Computers are everywhere. In the corner of every billboard is a world wide web address. You can not go through a box of frozen waffles without being berrated at to "Visit www.cyberwaffles.com for the digiwaffles experience pushing binary envelope!" (I do not know if it exists. If it does, please run to your local establishment of religion and _pray_!). Schools, the establishment where those of the noted age spend hours of each day, are now inseperably intertwined into the ubiquitous (Yeah, that's right kid, reach for your dictionary.) computer-culture of networks, servers and databases.
Another facet of life that teenagers often experience is rebellion. Everyone wants to be James Dean. Marilyn Manson, Korn and Ozzy Ozzbourne* are all examples of rebellious outlets. Others include shoplifting, cigarettes, and flavor crystals in Cinn*a*burst gum. I know people who will commit pointless, but incriminating feats of idiocy in school and then revel in pride when they are called to the assistant principle's office. It's a stage for most people. Most people experience it some time. Beyond this, you can read the volumes of psychiatry on adolescent rebellion ( Cheesy psychiatrist voice: Do you do this to your parent's because it makes you feel like you're getting back at them, Bobby?).
This combination breeds a special type of teenager. It is easy to tell who is and isn't. Let's see here... People of this type often...
o Claim to be "Hackers, Hax0rz, etc."
o Use Microsoft Windows (And every now and then a Mac user.)
o Pirate Software ("Warez")
o Have simple knowledge of the way that MS-DOS and Windows systems work. (i.e. Modify Autoexec.bat, win.ini, etc.)
o Have intrest in "anarchy"-type information. (Jolly Roger-Anarchist cookbook, etc.)
o Use AOL or SLIP/PPP type network connection.
o May use viruses
o Use simple "hacking" programs
Let me explain these points. First, everyone has some definition of what a hacker is. (A definition which is mostly wrong.) There is all kinds of media surrounding these misconceptions. I will list a few:
o Movies : _Hackers_ (The worst of them), _The Net_, _Masterminds_, the movie in the works by Miramax about Kevin Mitnick, many, many made-for-tv-movies.
o Books: _Secrets of A Superhacker_, _The Happy Hacker's Handbook_ (please whatever you do, don't read this), _Cyberpunk_ (Kevin Mitnick has been in jail a long time unneccassarily and John Markoff helped put him there.), _The Cyberpunk Handbook_ (to the point of hilarity), and many, many "cyber-novels" (a phrase of Upright Citizen's Brigade Fame).
So everyone is pretty sure a hacker is someone who breaks into computers, right? Wrong. See the _Jargon File_ or _The New Hacker's Dictionary_. Anyway, these troubled youths choose to identify themselves as "hackers", because in their definition, "hacking" is what they do.
On to the flawed existence of Microsoft Windows. Windows is the most common operating system on the face of the earth if I am not mistaken. Real hackers, whenever remotely possible, do not concern themselves with Windows. Go get Linux. The fact that the these who claim to be "elite" are using a operating system that is the equivalent of a sanitarium with padded walls and crayons for writing letters can be used to prove that these "hackers" are really technically inept.
Software piracy, a.k.a. "warez" is a common activity of these faux "hackers" because it gives them a sense of doing something that is wrong and more importantly, illegal. This is easily attributable to their rebellious nature, which was discussed earlier. Here I will note the importance of flashy graphics. I have seen many, many "hax0r" webpages that are done entirely in Adobe Photoshop with nothing but selection and Alien Skin Software EyeCandy plugins. Most of these pages (probably yours if you used lots of EyeCandy) have *no* element of graphic design whatsoever. It is easy to impress these so-called "hackers" with this kind of design. They thrive on social support for self-confidence and attempt to impress each other with these pointless images. This is why Adobe Photoshop is a common item on "warez" pages.
Everyone has used computers. Some people know more than others. In this case with the kids I am discussing, they may or may not know more, but by only a thin margin. It is even possible that they may know BASIC programming. Their peers see that they have (slightly) surperior knowledge and may express admiration. This is what builds up the whole "elite" attitude. No one likes an egomaniac.
Anarchy files is a simple extension of the need for rebellion. No one really needs to know how to make napalm. No one reading this, at least. Intrest such as these are purely childish and even less justifiable than software piracy. If the government ever makes an organized attempt at complete totalitarianism, the only thing you will be able to do is insert your head between your legs and kiss your sorry ass goodbye.
The single most popular isp among these wannabes is probably aol. AOL is a terrible company (although they did score points with the Netscape open-source issue) and is the least desirable access provider anywhere. I would rather live in North Korea and eat dog than show up on someone's server log as coming from an aol ip address. Aol isn't always the way modus operandi, though. But reagrdless, they will, with few exceptions, always use a SLIP/PPP networking connections. Why is this relevant? Because it shows their technical hopelessness. I garauntee you that you can sit any of these "hakz0rs" down at a bash shell and the first thing they will try to do is type "win" or maybe "dir *.exe" and finally "help". They need their precious gui interfaces because without them they will drown in their sea of bad MS-DOS syntax. This is statement can be supported by their love for cheesy graphics. Do you think most "31337 d00dz" optimize their sites for Lynx? I didn't think so.
Computer viruses. Personally, I think that anyone that has taken the time to learn assembly should write themself a microkernel so they can network their toaster ovens or electric toothbrushes or do something at least semi-productive. But alas, it appears some insist upon pointlessly annoying innocent computer users. Not that these people that are capable of producing such programs are common in "hak3r" culture. Virus distribution is just another way to feel rebellious and badass while in reality it's the equivalent of setting random people's homes on fire. Pretty cool, huh?
AOHell, WinNuke, port scanners, Back Orifice, the list goes on. It appears that every now and then one of these kids actually figures out the winsock control in Visual Basic and in a malevolent orgy of simplemindedness produces another one of these idiot machines. (My sincere apologies to the l0pht; I don't care how many CERT advisories you've caused, you still can't spell.) I program. In C. No, not Visual C++, that doesn't count. Try the GNU compiler for a real programming experience. Lost without your anarchy symbol pointer and some buttons to push, huh? All of these programs are simple to design. WinNuke is something like five winsock.dll calls, I believe. Back Orifice isn't the genius it's made out to be. Wow guys, I'm in this guys hard drive! Remote access utilities are very common. Back Orifice is not the first or the best,, by any measure. The only difference is that Back Orifice makes a few registry calls, uses datagrams and runs transparently. The people who use such programs think that their designers are really "l33t", when in truth they are just simple socket programming exercises. No magic. The vast majority of the so-called "hacking" population does not know how to program anything at all and uses these programs without caring how they work. Where's the hacker spirit at?
If you meet any two of those conditions, with exception to numbers two, four and six, I would immediatly seek out psychiatric help for your immaturity.
I have now defined, and hopefully clearly so, what I think of most people my age who call themselves hackers really are like. I meet these types of people in alarming frequency. A few weeks ago another student told me, and then when I told him he was wrong *insisted* that the reason he could access the MS-DOS shell was because of an error in the *server* software. I'm sure. Now I know why the network at my school is protected very well. It doesn't need to be with people like him. Virus protection maybe, but I wouldn't worry about the bindery too much. These people constantly are asking me "How do I hack the school's network?" or "Do you use Back Orifice" (always mispronouncing "orifice") and lately, it seems the question has been "Have you been to AntiOnline?".
[I have not reread this before posting (yeah, I know, poor form) but I am quite confident that it is still an accurate representation of the facts and what I believe.
Kspett
Kevin "Cash Money" Spett
Ignore your rights and they go away.
Maybe there's another moderator out there with some remnant of intellectual honesty (careful, Those Who Run Slashdot(tm) may yank your moderator status without warning).
I guess my real question here is whether or not JP disagrees with this statement and how. I would like to know how JP's analysis differs from mine. I would like to know whether he considers himself better than those that visit his site.
Kspett
Kevin "Cash Money" Spett
Ignore your rights and they go away.
Forgive me for barging in at the end, but I just have to take exception to slashdot not being a community. I can't think of a single way in which it does not qualify. Is the ham radio set not a community because they don't meet?
...stuns me.
.02
Your post seems intelligently worded (I can't speak to content, haven't read the whole thread), so it stuns me that you could make such an assertion. Not trying to flame at ALL, just
My
Quux26
My
Quux26
www.crashspace.net
Sue for libel/harrassment.
At least look into it.
Kspett
Kevin "Cash Money" Spett
Ignore your rights and they go away.
I have read a lot of info on attrition et al about him (including the /. bit as well, and have wondered where he ever got his 'cred' from.
His history files on attrition (or was it hnn?) are as funny as hell tho . . .
-- Reverend Vryl
this is hilarious!
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Slashdot is giving you the opportunity to quiz your nemesis on all those things that are bugging you...
...perhaps 60 minutes of reading/online time each day. I fought my friends when they predicted dark skies after the purchase, but I think this might be the linchpin to admitting they had merit. I'd like to say this is just a lapse in judgement, but I think maybe its time to find a site that is represenative of what is important to me as a coder, hacker and geek.
./ member postings).
.02
I think, judging by the questions, that nobody really has anything to say to JP except 'fsck off'. What can we get from quizing him that we don't already know? Do you think it's possible for anyone to think *less* of him??
/. takes up about
But maybe I'm being too harsh. Some of their recent articles have been wonderful. The LinuxChix and subsequent 'how to get a girl' articles were refreshing. The DOJ coverage has been *very* insightful (mostly due to
I guess I'll just have to see where this trend is going.
My
Quux26
My
Quux26
www.crashspace.net
I'm left wondering if this is the equivalent of a Jesse Berst column deliberatly designed to provoke a high number of banner hits. I can only suggest to the slashdot editorial team that if they cannot write a well reasoned response to the majority feeling that JP has no place here, then the interview should be cancelled. If they can, perhaps the majority should be reading somewher else that doesn't cater to people like JP.
---
Silence is consent.
1. In your numerous interviews with the mainstream media, do you purport to be speaking *for* the (h|cr)acker community, or merely offering your opinions *about* that community?
/. whenever your name is mentioned, "wanted" posters with your face on them at the most recent Defcon, etc. I gather from many of your interviews and news stories about you that you feel the same way about most hackers. Given this fact:
2. There seems to be a general hatred of and lack of respect for you pervading most of the hacker community, as evidenced by the postings on
a. If your answer to (1) is "for", what qualifies you to speak for a community which you despise and which despises you?
b. If you answer to (1) is "about", do you acknowledge this animosity between yourself and the hacker community when speaking to the mainstream press, or do you represent yourself as an objective source of information?
JP is a very questionable character. I agree with the people who think that the best way to repay JP is to completely ignore him.
.{redmist}.
JP is just a pinko commie bedwetter.
-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------
I have no question for AO's John Vranesevich, but I'd like to say a few things about slashdot's criteria used to select people for interviewing.
I've read a lot of complaints about interviewing JP and the hacker wannabe from MTV's show.
I do believe those comments show that interviewing JP (or the boy) was the right choice.
I mean, if the IT scene has such a hate on someone, it's always worth to hear what he has to say (and remember, noone is guilty until proved and everyone has the right to defend himself).
Anyway, I must say that I'd like a selection criteria based on the positive aspects of the interviewed.
-- krahd
mod me up scottie!
Jesus fucking christ!
People, calm the fuck down! 400 posts of nothing
but "this guy sucks, I hate this guy, yadda yadda"
It's like, you people think this guy should be in
jail and doesn't even deserve the right to speak or be interviewed.
I've never seen such a fucking LYNCH MOB in my life compared of people WHO SHOULD BE MORE CIVILIZED. Why do Slashdot people think they are "above the average person" You've shown that you're just as vulnerable to mob anger as "the common man", if not more so, hiding behind your computer screen.
I'm all for letting people have their right to speak, and engaging them in rational debate, or discussion.
Slashdot is about SHOUTING PEOPLE DOWN.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." (paraphrased) Voltaire?
I applaud Rob et al for having to courage to do this interview. You know, 60 Minutes and 20/20 have interviewed some disgusting people in their time!
A lynchmob? no.. When was the last time you heard of someone being beaten to death with pluche penguins by a group of rabid terrorists known only under the slightly cryptic sign "/." ? Or maybe.. we just like to shout.. well.. you figure it out. Shouting is just loud speech, and aren't we all in favour of free speech, even if it is a bit loud?
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
*yawn*....complaint generator.
But it won't be since it disagrees with the prevailing attitude to this interview.
/. has been very critical of him in the past.
I have to respond to this as well... The whole responce to this interview has caused me to become very disappointed in the slashdot readers. We are supposed to advocate open source, but apparently not free speech now?
I've followed the whole AntiOnline/Happy Hacker/Packetstorm/Attrition thing for quite awhile now, and I disagree with JP on pretty much everything. But, that doesn't mean that people don't have a right to their side or the story.
Applause is due to Rob and company for taking on such a controversial interview. Heck, I'm impressed that JP was willing to do it. He has to know that it is gonna be rather hostile, as
Hell, here's your chance to either 1) ask some technical computer security questions to see if he gets stuck, or 2) Try and get him to justify his actions that you disgree with. Take advantage of it.
Anyway, here's my questions:
1) Why do you belive you are qualified to be a computer security "expert"? What justification is there for you being concidered a credible source?
2) In dealing with the Packetstorm incident, why did you not attempt to contact Ken Williams first? Instead of going directly to his upstream, better Internet ettiquite would have been to attempt to resolve your problems with the site maintainer. If someone had a problem with your site, wouldn't you prefer that they went to you, instead of going over your head and talking directly to StarGate?
-Wintermute
i love this analogy.
-- your knees hurt, don't they?
(This is probably a rehash of other peoples questions, but here goes)
For Mr. Vranesevich: There is a strong sentiment against you in the online community. What do you feel are the key reasons for this and how do you respond to them? Do you intend to do anything to try to alter this perception?
For the Slashdot maintainers: There has been a lot of flack thrown out here, but I would ignore it. I do think it would be cool to see some of the people recommeded for interviews in the various postings here, along with possibly some writers such as Steven Levy, or William Gibson (or have they been done already?)
For the people who now hate Slashdot because of this interview: What a stupid reason to leave. I for one won't miss you.
You should seek the advice of a lawyer. You certainly have a couple parties that you could prosecute, if your story is accurate. It would take time/energy/money which you may not be interested in spending, but I think you have reasonable cause.
First of all, if JP posted libel on his site, and didn't make an effort to verify it OR (more importantly) post a retraction/apology when it turned out to be false, then you have a case against him. And secondly, the employer who fired you is certainly on shaky legal ground. Admittedly, I don't live in the States and your laws might treat that differently, but I don't think they are allowed to fire you based on false statements about your activities... particularly if you have never been arrested/charged by the FBI and if that was their motive for firing you. Of course, it's possible they may not have explicitly used that as the reason, they could pretend it was something else, but it IS worth looking into. That sort of thing is not only personally damaging, it can make it difficult to find employment in the future.
Of course, without proper legal advice, or all the details, it is hard to judge what sort of evidence you'd have, or if you could prove your story satisfactorily to a judge. Heh, ironic... JP is always threatening to take people to court for slander, maybe it's about time he got a taste of that.
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I hope you're not pretending to be evil while secretly being good. That would be dishonest.
If you mean JP, his nickname was JP. I knew him from #cha0s on undernet and have had run-ins in #hackphreak and the like. That was like 3-4 years ago. He was certainly incompetent then (far worse than the company he kept), though he tried his hands at being a script kiddy. Since that time, I've seen JP do and say things which make his incompetence glaringly obvious. He hasn't really changed at all as best as I can tell; Same personality, different symptoms.
I believe he stopped using IRC recently as he acquired too many enemies, particularly packet pixies/script kiddies. Though he evidently goes on anonymously or has someone else go for him, so he can get his script kiddy leads.
1. You don't read Katz's articles, so what's the problem? If others enjoy them, then good... it shouldn't bother you that other people perhaps like reading what he has to say. If he takes "crtical mass" from other articles, it's becuase lots of people are interested in what he has to say. And if you dislike him so much, go to your preferences and set it so you don't SEE his articles. There is always a better solution than getting upset.
2.You have the right to leave slashdot. As does everyone. But slashdot has a lot of readers. If a few leave because they don't like what it has become, it won't really matter, many more will join becuase they do like what it has become. Things change with time.
4.FUD from Bill Gates or the KKK would not be relevant to Slashdot. You may not like Katz's articles, but their topics are relevant to the Slashdot crowd. They are generally based upon articles posted on Slashdot by other authors. They are his thoughts/opinions, but that is what most of the features are, whoever writes them. Everyone (including you) is entitled to their own opinion.
5.Why should you be exempt from using facts and proof? That seems a little far-fetched. If you want to convince others of your point of view, naturally they will want more than opinions. You seem to think you "know" the minds of the editors. This seems very tainted by your opinions, and facts of some sort might be useful to explain why it's more than just an opinion. You also say that a "significant portion of the mature readership objects to Katz's articles". This statement in particular seems to need something to back it up. What is this significant portion and how do you measure it? How do you know that these people belong to the mature readership? Is the mature readership any more important than the newer readership? Opinions and ideas need to be quantified or explained before they have a chance of acceptance.
My reasoning for this post is that you seem so upset. I am not saying that you need to have a different opinion. I am just suggesting that you need to allow everyone else to have their own opinion and be allowed to question yours.
A few minutes of reflection on my general statements might help you to understand my opinion in this matter:
There is always a better solution than getting upset.
Things change with time.
Everyone (including you) is entitled to their own opinion.
Opinions and ideas need to be quantified or explained before they have a chance of acceptance.
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I hope you're not pretending to be evil while secretly being good. That would be dishonest.
Ok, you asked for some feedback, so here it is. I don't mean offense by any of this, I just want to help you improve your letter/article.
First, answer these questions:
What is the point of this letter?
What do you hope to accomplish with this letter?
Hopefully, with these two in mind, you can trim your article a bit. At the moment, it seems to be rambling thoughts. (I realise you said you hadn't re-read it).
My take, after having read it all, is that you want to associate those who read AntiOnline with those who are script kiddies. Fair enough. But it takes a long time to get to that point. (Do you really think someone as cuckoo as JP will learn anything from this letter anyways?? I doubt it personally).
A lot of the discussion of teenage rebellion and what computers mean in the 20th century isn't really neccessary. It doesn't further your point, and is rather obvious to most. Keep the intro that you are a high school student etc, though, that's good, it gives your opinions context.
Later on, you sorta slam AOL users and people who don't program in "real" languages. Don't bother, it just makes you look petty and again, it doesn't further your point. Condense your description of the "hax0r d00d" to one paragraph, rather than spreading it out, and then get to the good bit at the end... where you list the questions people ask you. That is effective and makes the point nicely. If you do this, I think your letter will be more succinct and effective.
I hope this helps. :) It was sincerely meant as constructive criticism. Although, I would suggest you consider your audience... If sending this letter makes you feel satisfied, then by all means do it, but I rather doubt it will have any effect on the behaviour/content of AntiOnline. I don't think they are open to criticism or interested in being a useful security site.
ps. My opinion on something: Just because something isn't text oriented doesn't mean has no value. Adobe Photoshop is an excellent program, although I personally prefer the GIMP. :)
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I hope you're not pretending to be evil while secretly being good. That would be dishonest.
I was responding to specific gripes of mochaone, and some which you can't see in this thread from previous arguments with him. Context!
/., who are fed up with this. This can indeed be indicitive of the population. It remains open to investigation. If they wish to ignore my arguments, time will prove me right. But then again, as an AC pointed out in this thread, maybe they're looking for an IPO (et. al) exit...
I do not get upset over this stuff. I was making a point, that I see a general trend, a focus of trying to create flamewars to increase banner revenue. This trend results in an increasingly singular viewpoint, that of geek fanaticism.
It is my belief that the slashdot editors KNOW what they're doing; thus I don't need to prove it to them. Instead, I made a financial argument that it could hurt them in the long term. The mere fact that they generate increased hits in the short term does NOT mean it is healthy in the long term. For example (though extreme), if I were to put the KKK up on slashdot, to spread their propaganda. I have no doubt it would generate a thousand comments. If I kept doing this on a regular basis, the readership would get fed up--they would leave en masse.
I am not putting a gun to the editors' heads, my points remain open for consideration. The mere fact that I lack exact statistics does not make my efforts worthless. Also, I have OBSERVED a number of people, those whom I believe to be the more worthwhile posters on
It is ironic that you purport that Katz's articles are apropos for slashdot, yet the KKK or Bill Gates is not. What facts do you have the back this up? What proof do you have that Gates' claims of MS superiority are indeed FUD? How does this differ from my claims that Katz's articles are essentially anti-establishment FUD (though my comment presumes that the editors already KNOW)--with an immature sycophantic geek-cheerleading-squad?
If you assume that user replies/moderation are an accurate indicator of the intrinsic worth of a comment, then I am significantly better off than yourself. My comment/Karma history demonstrates this well. Or would you have me believe that, perhaps, there are other criterion? You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Ok, for the most part, I agree with you. I personally don't like Katz's articles. I find that he take an idea adequately discussed in a story and blows it out of proportion to create a hyped and silly opinionated feature. However, a lot of people seem genuinely interested in reading his articles, so I think it seems reasonable that he continue to post to slashdot. Neither am I really interested in "promoting" John Vranesevich. But I think that slashdot is a good site, and I don't HAVE to like everything they do, to still find worth in it. I think the post I am replying to seems a lot more thought out than the one I responded to earlier, although admittedly, I may have missed some of the context.
However...
You end with what seems an unrelated comment, with little basis:
If you assume that user replies/moderation are an accurate indicator of the intrinsic worth of a comment, then I am significantly better off than yourself. My comment/Karma history demonstrates this well. Or would you have me believe that, perhaps, there are other criterion? You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Er... where did I say anything about that... maybe you are infering that I meant a lot of people responding to Katz's stories meant they had intrinsic worth ?? That's my only guess at an explanation... Replies can be an indication of a good comment, but that is a very unreliable criterion. Moderation is not infallible (thus metamoderation), but a heavily moderated comment indicates what slashdot users think. Whether we agree or not, the moderation system seems to regularly bring out good posts, so I'd say that on the whole, it does have SOMETHING to do with the intrinsic worth of a comment.
I doubt you looked at my Karma history... I am guessing you assumed that yours was "significantly better" because my article did not have an automatic +1. Actually, I just make liberal use of the "No Score +1 Bonus", unless my post is directly on topic, which it isn't really, in this thread. As for the worth of my comments otherwise, I will leave that up to the moderators and individual readers to decide on a case by case basis.
In any case, I don't really know what you meant by this last paragraph, perhaps if you could explain what it was in reference to, I could better explain myself.
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I hope you're not pretending to be evil while secretly being good. That would be dishonest.
It would be one thing if I really believed that both Katz and the editors are sincere in what they write, but I don't think this to be the case. I believe Katz is effectively telling the slashdot-cheerleeding squad whatever they want to hear(I've seen Katz speak out of both sides of his mouth); I object to that on principle. But beyond that, as I've already stated, I think it detracts from slashdot in general, even if I ignore Katz.
I did view your Karma/comment history briefly. You were giving me "pointers" on how to write, implying that mine don't deserve the time of day. My first comment on this thread has recieved a score of 4. And you seem to imply that whatever the readership comments or moderates is good. I see a certain paradox in saying that Katz's articles are worthwhile because they draw moderation and comments, yet saying that mine, which draws moderation and comments, is not. Or yours....or whatever...
...anyhow, I've got work to get done today. Bye
C'mon, interview GvR, pretty pretty please?
Preferential Voting: easy as 1-2-3
Sure am. Doesn't it seem logical I would follow up on my own posts?
Conversely, it seems odd to me to respond to such a long, drawn-out thread without having read entire said thread. During any long, drawn-out argument, one side or the other is likely to slip up with regards to examples, wording, or some other semantic error. No one is perfect. I'd personally recommend reading the entire thread next time, as it would most likely shed a little light and give you a much better perspective on the argument as whole. This particular situation would have been no different had you taken the time to do so.
~ Kish
--I understand why you feel this way, but /. was trying to get a point across... Until recently, AntiOnline was really living up to its name == It was BLOCKING referrals from certain sites, including Slashdot. :P
.
== WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
right up that goat ass. check http://www.tg0d.org and http://www.schematic.org for why JP and CPM are wastes of bodies and air.
The moderation system on slashdot is largely broken. The fact that you feel compelled to protect yourself from it speaks volumes. Though you seem to see flaws in slashdot content management (comments/articles/moderation), you still want to extend Katz the benefit of the doubt because he's got fans. Yet you're willing to write mine off with a shrug. Though they're slightly different, it is effectively the same issue. Majority whim v "right". The standard should not be whatever is popular at the moment. That is to say, just because the "more people" appear to be happier with it doesn't make it "right".
Futhermore, what majority desires is not neccessarily better for them. The majority may desire to do geek-cheerleeding, but it hurts everyone as those who're most reasonable are put off by it--causing inbalance. They may be only 5% of slashdot, but in BALANCING slashdot, they carry a great deal more weight.
There is no way to "prove" any of this, at least without extensive effort. That does not mean they're worthless. The majority of slashdot comments, yours included, don't live up to this standard of "proof". You can, however, draw thought and futher review.
My original comment was largely targeted at THE EDITORS. Since it is my belief that the editors know what they're doing, I provided the editors with a RATIONAL argument as to why they MIGHT not want to exclusively pursue the whims of the apparent majority (if Katz-comment-traffic-people are indeed a majority).
Some group of hackers that were not nearly as cool as the Ashtray Lumberjacks. heh.
Paper Pusher
Expert my ass.
Somehow, I don't think W. Richard Stevens would make for a very good interview.
Please don't moderate this as "funny" because it isn't. I'm just saying that your list hasn't really gotten the fine-tooth comb treatment.
--
grappler
Vidi, Vici, Veni
Purrty low, but then again, this is to GRILL JP, so nothing was really even serious in this. One big orgasmic flamefest. I can add my own in, such as that JP (I hate his last name... do you notice?) sucks great whale dick, but we aren't here to do that, now are we?
t ory way.
Seriously, JP has proved himself, to the "inner circle(s)", as well as most of the outer ones, as the biggest fake SecAdmin/SysOp/"hacker" the world has know in the past five years. Anyone who spends even two months (being mature and) studying hacking would quickly figure out that JP really shouldn't exist in the world of Hacking, and the broad range of topics it covers. He has done masses amounts of shit, including but not limited to taking down Packet Storm, in a messy, go-straight-to-head-honcho-and-make-a-fucked-up-s
If that isn't all, "mainstream" media (AKA MTv!!!) puts him on the same phreakin' screen with Shamrock from Parse.
Quick thought: So is JP+AntiOnline "mainstream" media? jumps into shit without thouroughly studying it?
For the short term, which works hand in hand in the long term, you all should blow off your steam on this fake. But we shaln't do this for long, as soon as we're done, Shun AntiOnline, and bring the mainstream media's attention to EXACTLY what this FAKE has done, and quote him as much as possible, and expect the second wave from the media, and then the dust settles, and JP is booed, hissed, and beat up off the stage, and his name goes down in the history books as a fake.
Uhm, at least in theory that all should work...
To speak of JPs knowledge from my perspective, he seems to have not a whole lot more than I do, which albeit would be only easy to research (what I don't know). routine shit like keeping up on patches, not running Winblows (Sorry, I have to, alright?), not letting the r* (rwho, rexec, etc) commands run, perhaps not even having his webserver close to his LAN, not having a static IP address also helps a bit.
And in some cases I see myself far more ahead (even in my young age of 14 1/2) in maturity to new issues (like Analyzer, the indian hacker) than JP (was)is.
Questions, on the other hand, I have none of for JP, as I wouldn't lay a finger of trust to his information, even if he said he took a shit 15 mins ago, I wouldn't trust it. (Bad example, I know, so sue me! Uhm, err, I take that back) I don't even want to ask how he got his lameass to this point.
So, that taken care of,
Blessed Be! --"LEVIATHAN"