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Windows Drivers for Mac Rolling Out
OSXpert writes "Sure, we all know that Windows can now run on intel Apple Computers. Alas, the solution does not include drivers, and until now Mac users could still only hope to be able to use every application available to their Windows counterparts. However, with drivers now working 100% on the Mac Mini and drivers for the MacBook Pro only lacking video (which, by the looks of the 2nd link is only days away), Mac users now have a complete and working Windows solution."
But can it run.... never mind.
The development community is fantastic. I have no urge to buy a Mac at the moment, but I may reconsider. Most companies would stumble when making a major platform jump, but Apple are going strong.
New Mac BookPro: $1999
2 days of leave: free
Ticking off the Mac Fanboys: priceless
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
i'm not really interested in running windows per-se... but wouldn't it be great to run windows apps within osx, much like running them in WINE under linux? then I could skim the cream from the windows world and leave the swill behind!
I could see running a Mac OS on a cheap PC box, but why should I run Mr. Gate's Fine Software on my pricey Mac box?
For Linux partisans, doesn't the latest Mac OS offering give them their Unix scionfix?
Because you still have some documents in proprietary formats not available on Mac and you couldn't wait any longer to switch to Mac so you need some backwards compatibility until you managed to convert them?
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
TUAW
Common sense is not so common
...you're part of the Windows Problem, I guess.
And I know this thread will just consist of - "why would you want to do that?" "Whats the point, when your running OS X? It's so much better..."
Shut up. This is a good thing. Many people need to use Windows for work, and this lets do that. Whilst giving them the good stuff at home. Many people like to play computer games that aren't photshop.
Don't be stupid. Please.
Please!
http://skeptobot.blogspot.com/ - A site for the Renaissance man and woman
You can use Mac OS X with proper drivers (i.e. written by Apple, as they intended) and now (if you want to) you can use any 'Windows Only' applications that may be foisted upon you by, say, your job. Come on, people, it's not rocket science. Plus, when Linux is fully up, you'll have a completely triple-boot machine. All of which makes it even harder for the beancounters in your enterprise job(tm) to say "No, you can't have one of those because it can't run Approved Software(tm)".
Asking "Why would you?" is aking to shoving your head in the sand and asking "Why would you run a Mac?" Sure, go ahead and limit your choices. I'll be taking one from *every* column, thanks.
A hero is someone who knows when to run away. I am a hero. -Trent the Uncatchable
In my case, Quicken. Whilst there's a version of Quicken out on the Mac, it's not as good as the Windows version. I've been using Virtual PC on a Power Mac for this, but at the moment there's no fully working PC emulator for Intel-based Macs so running Windows will be my only hope to carry on using this app.
I'm more interested in the progress that's being made on Qemu and the Q port of it, but for now running Windows on an Intel Mac is still attractive to me.
Cheers,
Ian
I see this comment on every thread dealing with this. Here are the answers:
1)Why not? It's geeky, it's fun, it's what being a nerd is all about.
2)Games. What if you want to be productive on OSX but want to reboot to play some win-only games every so often
3)tax software. This is a big one for this, why bother buying a win machine for something you do once a year when you can just install win on your nice mac.
4)Some people honestly like apple hardware but need to run windows. Try finding a non-apple box with as small a desk footprint as a mac mini.
5)Along the same lines, people who do all their work on laptops and dont want to carry 2 laptops around can now just carry a macbook pro.
6)Quick compatability checks for software. Yes, I realize that for major cross platform dev you might want 2 boxes, but for quick checks (see the laptop comment too) this is invaluable.
There are more of course, thats off the top of my coffee-depirved head right now.
~Anubis
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
It is a futile effort. Why not install an Apple like multimedia linux OS, such as Tomahawk desktop. There is a good article to learn more about it.
Lots of people griping about the use of it, but who cares about that? It's like asking about why you'd dual boot Linux and Windows.
I like the idea - the hardware is nice, I like the OS, but I'm not 100% certain that the programs I use some of the time has been ported to OS X or if it has a usable counterpart on OS X. Lack of something like WINE makes this a viable option, should I choose to get a Mac (looking dreamily at the MacBook Pro).
I'd get nice hardware, an excelent OS and the option of still using the old and busted OS and irreplacable programs if I need them. Best of all parts I think.
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
Some people prefer how Mac hardware looks. There's also a "cool" or "wtf" factor involved; I'd imagine you could get some really interesting reactions from people.
- "Nobody came out that night, not one was ever seen. But Old Man Stauf is waiting there, crazy sick and mean!"
My daughter will be entering Univ. of Cincinnati's DAAP (Design, Art, Architecture & Planning) school next fall. The college uses almost all Macs EXCEPT for the Industrial Design program, which requires a PC running Windows. She much prefers a Mac, and was probably going to buy a Mac for her own use and a PC for any school requirements. However now she could just get an Intel MacBook and a copy of XP.
Because Microsoft have done their very best to prevent operating systems other than Windows from being compatible with Windows. MS Office won't even be out on Mac for months yet! (maybe years, considering Vista delays)
DirectX ensures that no operating system will ever run games quite as well as Windows will, unless game developers drop DirectX. (which they should do, considering that OpenGL + SDL can mean that almost no code changes would be necessary to compile a game for almost any platform)
Unpimp my Mac?
MS representing on the Apple tip ya'll.
You say you want a revolution....
For the last time. Some people are tied to the Windows platform because of work/business-needs and therefore, until now, the Mac has not been an option for their home computer, laptop, whatever. Now that they can buy one piece of hardware that can run both Windows and MacOS, they have the option to buy a Mac for fun, personal use, OS-preference, Mac-fanboyism, etc, but still use that machine for those work-related purposes where using Windows may not be optional. Get it? People who may not have been able to switch before now have a viable option to get the best of both worlds without any sacrifice.
I would think that application developers would benefit from having a single, dual-boot system to develop in two flavors. Maybe this will benefit the Mac community by making it easier for resource-strapped app innovators to buy a macintel box that lets them server OSX and Windows app consumer markets.
Moderation in All Things... Especially Moderation - gurutc
"Do you know how the orcs came to be? They were elves once." :)
Steve
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
"...Mac users now have a complete and working Windows solution."
You really do have a very different view of 'complete', 'working' & 'solution' from most people I know.
You may not be the only one using the computer. I bet kids rather have windows than Mac OS.
"Mac users now have a complete and working Windows solution."
/. (or by anyone else who has acually used Windows.....)
Working Windows solution? Now there's a phrase I thought I'd never hear on
Mac users now have a complete and working Windows solution.
Cool! Now maybe they can sell it to Microsoft to get their Windows solution to work too?
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Virtual PC would cost LESS and be a lot less trouble to get running too...
Of course, we're talking about an emulator running in an emulator (Virtual PC on Rosetta) but if it's only to convert files, it doesn't really matter.
Windows on Mac is really useful for games, which is a shame because some dumb software companies will now drop OS X support altogether (and I plan to never purchase anything Microsoft-related again, especially not Windows on my Macs).
Why not run a good O/S like centos or Open BSD on you new iNTEL MAC.
Support Open BSD They need your help!!!
Keep diversity and chioce alive.
Because Mac hardware is nicer than say, Dell? Or that you could eventually write drivers for the mac which might aid in a virtual PC? Or because it's there?
heh, I don't know if I'm worng or what, but I know not of a PC as elegantly designed as a Mac... so I guess that's something of a factor. You know it's nice to have a killer looking machine with whatever you're used to running on it.
Isn't this a step in the wrong direction? If you've already got Mac hardware, then you're trying to get away from Microsoft. Why use M$ software on more expensive Mac hardware? Why use M$ software at all?
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.
I agree with you. What morons will buy a Mac, which is a software-Hardware unit designed to just work, and then have to try to get an overbloated unstable operating system, that they have to buy if they aren't stealing it(breaking their agreement in the EULA), and try to get that stinker to work on their nice coherent system that already does most if not all the things they will ever get the stinker to do? What a waste of time, money and intellect. Sheesh.
If Microsoft has any sense, they'll make damn sure that Vista supports all of the hardware that Apple uses. Any additional retail Windows sales they might get from this have got to be good (because how many people buy Windows off the shelf nowadays?) - and isn't 5% of the market a lot to ignore?
They'll never do a "Windows for Apple" - it'd be too easy for Apple to pull the rug from under them - but I wouldn't be surprised if Vista quietly gains support for the non-working components and 32bit EFI, and that this quickly becomes the worst kept secret in computing...
Everyone, please ... repeat after me:
Options are never bad!
one more time...
Options are never bad
Just like I know I shouldn't put regular gas in a porche... I want the thing to run on it in case of an emergency.
DirectX was probably the best thing to ever happen for gaming. Sure it lead to lock in but really the power of it and simplicity were a huge step forward. No longer did game designers have to worry about every detail of the hardware, just let the abstracted layer handle everything, and if the hardware didn't support the feature it would do it manually for you so you always had what you needed.
As well DirectX also encapsulated audio, networking, input devices and gave a consistent interface to everything. In your own example you need multiple libraries to do the same as the one MS program.
The problem with being an Alternate OS user, regardless of preferred OS, is that Microsoft is still the 2 ton Gorilla in the professional sector. I have worked in companies as a UNIX Admin that expected me to do my entire set of job functions from an NT Workstation with Putty. I'm sorry, that just seems wrong to me. Their excuse? "We need to be able to have a singular desktop for the entire company that has the ability to roll out updates and security fixes from the Administrator."
The point is, if you are working for a company where computers are in daily use, chances are Windows is there. Many corporations use Exchange for their email / calendar / project planning systems. There is no easy way to access these stores on a Mac. Even Microsoft's own Entourage doesn't come ready equipped to talk to Exchange, and needs fixes, and even a third party adapter. So Outlook needs to be run. Virtual PC has been in use for a while for just this reason. Because, let's face it, VPC didn't ever really do games well. It was to gain access to certain corp apps that "your" boss tells you that you must use.
As a disclaimer, I must tell you that I am an Apple share holder. I have only Macs in my home. However, at work, I must use an XP machine. No ifs, no ands, and certainly no buts. Though my management would not listen to this plea, there are those that can now go to their boss and say "I need a new laptop, this laptop comes in high in all marks and respects, is competitively priced and I can pick one up today that will let me even check our web page / graphics / whatever for Mac users." That can be an important sale point to a manager that only has the stipulation of "It must run Windows to interoperate."
"Genius may shine aloof and alone, like a star, but goodness is social, and it takes two men and God to make a Brother."
"Try finding a non-apple box with as small a desk footprint as a mac mini."
l
:)
:)
Okay: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8464432110.htm
Sure, it's a blatant rip-off of the Mac Mini design, but you did ask.
Sure, it's got IBM-PC insides, not Mac insides, but that's what you asked for.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
To prove that you can. A lot of Slashdot is about that. "Because you can" answers a lot of Slashdot questions. Why modify your case to look like a Borg cube? Why port Linux to your PDA?
Hacking is about curiosity, first and foremost. And there was a question out there...how much like a PC are the new x86 Macs? And running Windows on it answers the question with authority.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Great! Now we just need the final piece of the puzzle: something that will let me run that same installation of Windows as an OS X application, the same way OS X runs OS 9 on PPC Macs.
Because I need to run Windows apps occasionally during the day, but having to boot back and forth to do it would seriously suck.
I'm sure someone's working on it, and that someone is going to take a lot of sales from any future version of VirtualPC that will run on the MacIntels. (And that'll be what you deserve for dragging your feet, Microsoft.)
~Philly
So, tell me, why exactly is more than one library a problem? It's not as if it's some huge number (two), and DirectX doesn't have a single, unified way of doing everything. It's just a bunch of libraries rolled into one.
Academic exercise? I would hope an academic would have a better grasp on the meaning of the word "first."
English is easier said than done.
For me, this would be the perfect solution. I am the lone hardware tech for a College (not counting student work study). I have to support both Windows and Mac OS. For me, having a laptop that will let me dual boot means I don't have to worry about grabbing the right bag, or having the right software on hand when I head out and make service calls. It also means that support for either OS is just a reboot away.
Yes, a geeky part of me wants to dual boot just because I can, but in my field, having a dual boot machine just makes sense. I can run the Mac for my day to day stuff, and launch Windows when we need to troubleshoot some odd scientific software package designed for DOS that they are still using (happens a lot more then people realize), or when I need to run specialized software like Datatel locally; as remote desktop has made that need even less of a need.
It also means that I have trimmed my office computer budget. One Mac Book Pro, although a little pricey, is much cheaper then an iBook and a Windows laptop ($1000 for the iBook, $1300 for the PC laptop we have stanardized on). $2300 total compared to the $1800 for my MBP.
Honestly, I think there are 3 camps of people.
1. Geeks who want to try this out
2. People like me, who could actually benefit from it
3. People who want the PC games
Of the above list, I think group 1 will tire of it quickly. Group 2 has the most to gain from this. Group 3 should really wait for DarWine or Qemu, but for the short term, this will work for them.
Just my $0.02
--nutz
but what we really need is a way to launch windows programs from within OSX, not another OS running on the hardware. I anxiously await a virtual PC for Intel, it should be able to run much better as it doesn't have to emulate the processor merely the OS....
First, dual boot is a myth, it is damn annoying and so counterproductive. Most people dont realise that until they actually experiment it, it's hype now, but all Linux users know it's a pain, and I know from experience that a dual boot Windows/Linux means one thing... Windows 90% of the time. Vmware and others solutions are the way to go for people who need Windows professionaly for a given application, I can't wait for a Mac OS X version. Second, some people try to makes us believe that companies will buy Apple PC to their employees now that they can run Windows, yeah right, serious manager will buy more expensive hardware, plus a Windows licence, so that their employees can have an Apple design and the joy of using Mac OS X out of the office... Lastly, Gamers, Well Windows users will probably not switch to Apple hardware to play, it's more expensive, and you'll get a better gaming PC for the price, hardcore gamers don't really care for Apple design, last time I checked it was more neon and see through glass panel...Seriously, You already have to be freaking rich to play seriously on laptop, do you think people will pay even more for an Apple on the back screen... I see this all thing as one big geek experiment, because it is what it is, mostly geek will do it, just because it is fun, but Apple geek will at the end stay under OS X, and Windows geek will soon realise they over paid their Windows laptop...
For someone like me who uses 75% mac and have to do a few PC things for work this is great. I travel a lot and I am about to go on my first roadshow in a week where I wont have to lug around 2 computers as I have been for the past 3 years. I have tried Virtual PC, Qemu and even remote desktop and nothing was ever a complete solution, this is. So all those asking why, thats why!
It's a shame if you don't get modded up. Damn funny stuff.
"Your ancient kin are troubling us once again..."
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
OSX86 on a PC was done over a month ago.
Just don't create a file called -rf.
oops!
This is nice for them, but I really want to know how long it will be before we have the wine-equivalent of OSX... I need to be able to run Safari on my slackware laptop, so that I can test my website.
When will VMWare support the new Intel Macs? Dual booting gets old very fast. I need a few Windows apps but now I use VMWare to run them, which works great. It would be awesome if I could also do that on my Macs instad of just my Linux machines.
BTW, I'm primarily a Linux user, but I prefer Macs for laptops, sound editing, and graphic work.
"It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
Doesn't look like all of these drivers are working from here.
I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
and it's only a Pentium M rather than the Core Duo available in the Mini.
I'm getting so tired of this argument and I'm not sure why it's been modded funny. There are plenty of reasons putting windows on your mac is worthwhile. For work purposes you may want have to run some windows only applications which won't work under virtualization. For play you may want to boot up some games that are windows only. In academic settings you can buy one machine and tripple boot it (Windows/OSX/Linux). I know my school a lot of the labs already dual boot windows and linux.
Im sure the mac fan boys are happy
Since I am a 100% pure Apple fanboy I can only ask the obvious questions:
Windows?!? What Windows? Does they have shatterproof glass?
If you already have a Mac, why NOT run Windows on it?
There are other possible advantages: For one thing, with a known hardware platform to run on, Microsoft might actually be able to provide a version of Windows as stable and crash free as your average open source OS.
I guess the same could then be said for running Linux on a Mac, right?
Heck, what about Linux on a PC? Oh wait. That one was about CHOICE, right?
Virtual PC would cost LESS and be a lot less trouble to get running too...
$VirtualPC+$Windows license > $Windows License
Do you get it?
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
Oh shit. The next "Why run Windows on a Mac" question I read, I don't know what I'll do, but I'll do it!
You just got troll'd!
It's been done. Where have you been, friend?
Seriously, though, the OS X on PC is a lot further behind Windows on Mac, even though the former has been available in the wild since last summer. Lots and lots of driver issues, limited hardware support. But, my own PC is this close to being my new Mac, though. Just waiting for some enterprising programmers/hackers to come up with fully working NVidia drivers, have working digital output of audio, and it'd be nice to be able to use my mobo's built-in NIC, and my Sony DVD-DL drive too.
But that said, it's pretty amazing they've already got a game working here. Nice.
...about Macs is when they offer opinions on the platform while referring to the company that produces them as "Mac" (which you didn't do) or to the computer itself as a "MAC".
The company is "Apple". The machine is a "Mac". It is an abbreviation of "Macintosh", not an acronym.
Funny.
You're not even the first to ask this TODAY.
Yeah, that's right. Seriously. You'd think that after getting their questions answered, those guys would just know that there are indeed good reasons to run Windows on a Mac. It seems that there's just an endless supply of people who are unwilling to listen to good reason.
Anyway, having said that, let me say this one last time:
Some.
People.
NEED.
Windows.
Nobody's said that this is being done because Mac OS is inferior or anything of the sort. The only big reason is because there are people who are stuck on Windows boxes for work or other mission-critical applications that they simply cannot live without. Before you, for the so-manyth time, complain that this is nonsense and that people should just use Mac OS if the possibility exists, consider the fact that not everybody is as carefree as you and that there could be very good reasons that simply don't apply to you.
qemu has been ported to the Mactels, as is WinTel from openosx.com.
Of course, there's always Darwine as well.
I didn't realize that the Media Access Control could only run on a closed door OS. When did this happen?
The funny thing is, even sone Microsoft products are more complete on OSX than in Windows
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
Choice is one thing, fair enough, I'm just questioning why you would be crazy enough to run Windows on Mac hardware?
Forgetting first of all that the Mac is more expensive than an equivalent PC counterpart, and that it was designed to work with OSX and not Windows, I (personally) would also question why someone would want to work in Windows when they could be working in OSX (And if someone says it's for games then I'm afraid I refer you back to your average PC having much better hardware for the same price).
Personally I've run Linux, Windows, and OSX and all three have their advantages, true enough, but when I buy a Mac I buy it because it is one simple no-messing-necessary solution...adding in Windows just seems to go against that for me.
Because we know only frat boys use all those 3d applications that don't run on macs.
Next, how to mod your Porsche into a Toyota Camry.
Funny - but a terrible example.
Sure - a porsche looks cool, but if you're just going to the shops, its nicer to have a fuel range of 21 - 35 MPG rather then porsche's 17 - 25 MPG
I'd rather have a porsche, but if I could seamlessly degrade my porsche to a camry's performance to get the extra mileage, on occasion I would.
In just the same way, if I was forced to choose between os x & windows, I'd choose os x, but it would be nice to have a copy of windows hanging around in case I wanted to play some games.
My pics.
Why would I want to buy a PC for a required app or two when I can run Windows on the Mac?
This is an opportunity to get more choice for Mac owners, not replace their original software.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Nope...
get back to me when I can on a MacBook Pro:
capture video over fire window into Sony Vegas
output hardware accelerated graphics through the DVI second monitor output to a HD projector
play audio through the speakers
use one partition to dual boot mac os x and windows xp
sleep, reboot and restart all work without hanging the system
still got a long way to go...
So, do you want to tell my mom, my daughter, my pastor that they are fratboys?
um... Moby Dick, live version. Bitchin' drum solo.
Perfect reference.
Yes, but i can't afford to have 2 computers (Or I don't want to take up the space, or some other excuse), and since I need windows sometimes, I have to have a windows machine. Now, If I can buy 1 computer that runs both Mac and windows, I'd be more likely to do so. I would buy a Mac just because I like it, not because of any specific piece of software.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
MMMPH!! what the fucks wrong with you people! When is last time you played some of the latest top selling game on a Mac? i'm not saying there's none, but it should be obvious to anyone why would a Mac user want to run Windows, quit trolling goddamnit!
And quit acting like this fucking shit is new, Mac users have always been wanting to run Windows, from back in the days of Connectix Virtual PC and Tomb Raider II and even before, the only diff is now it's native.
Seriously I can't take these troll ass "Why run Windows on an expensive Mac?" questions no more, mod that flamebait if you want.
You just got troll'd!
The move to Intel processors and Windows OS only shows that Apple is finally willing to do what it takes to gain a really big slice of the market. They tried to tie the traditional PowerPC mac to the success of the iPod but even this move could not break the 5% market share barrier. They learned the lesson from marketing the iPod. Give people what they want, even if technologically it sucks (not the the iPod does), and they will love you for that.
oftware written for Windows isn't usually anything a Mac user would want to use, anyway. Windows software is software aimed at the fratboy demographic, essentially, and Macs have never been for fratboys. The best applications in arts, design, music, and other creative pursuits always come out for Macs first, and Windows later, if ever.
True enough, but there is life outside those circles. If I had my way I'd never even look at an MS logo for the rest of my life. Unfortunately the unshaven masses of average coputer users either love Windows to death or don't know that alternatives exist. The result is that I'm actually looking forward to something like Crossover Office for Mac (according to wikipedia it's being ported as we speak) in the hope that I can run Windows apps like Microsoft OneNote and Visio. Not an optimal situation but at least it will save me the agony of having to use the Windows Desktop environment as well as the Windows App.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
Well, if windows sucks so much, and Microsoft is so evil...
Why the heck are all you geeks rushing to run Windows?
It's not just an academic exercise. Here are two examples:
I'm a Mac fan, and my parents used to own a Mac as well. However, after their 630DOS(the Performa with a 486 daughter card(to run Windows 3.1...yuck) died in a lightening storm, they bought a Dell because no one was using Macs(1998). When their Dell dies, I will talk them into buying a mini. They can have all of the "ease of use" of OS X, while still being able to use their old Windows peripherals(if they don't have Mac drivers/apps).
Secondly, I'm an IT person at a large University. I support a couple of genetic research labs, and those labs use equipment that only have Windows software for analysis. That software doesn't always require the instrument, so analysis can be done on any Windows desktop. Since the labs are 94% Mac, it requires the analysis to be done on the computer controlling the instrument, which is a serious bottle neck. Being able to boot into Windows to do the analysis would be a tremendous time saver.
That said, I know the first thought people are having is using VMWare would be a much better than rebooting the machine, doing what you have to do in Windows, then rebooting back into OS X. You're right, and hopefully, it can achieve near-native speeds. Otherwise, the new Intel designs with virualization in the chip look promising as well.
Virgin, please. Just chill, if it's not cool for you then don't do it. But don't be telling other people what to do with their boxes.
I'd love to see a side by side comparison with a windows-only laptop. I'm afraid though, that it'll be slightly disappointing. I'm expecting similar behavior.
B.
Every experiment which ends in a big bang is a good experiment.
So, what does this mean for the potential of a Mac Mini running Windows XP Media Center Edition? will the remote work?
I'd like a mini as a media center, but so far it looks like Front Row can only play codecs that can be hosted by Quicktime, which AFAIK excludes XVid and friends... right?
So, you're saying that people's offices are going to buy them expensive Macs and install Windows on them, so that when they take their laptops home they can use OSX?
Or are you saying people are going to bring their home PCs into work and plug them into the corperate net without the office caring about it?
Your argument makes no sense whatsoever. If the computer was bought by the offfice for office work, they aren't going to buy you a MAc unless you can do your work on a Mac. If it is your home PC/laptop you can't use it at the office anyway, at least not at any office with a decent security policy.
Windows software is software aimed at the fratboy demographic, essentially, and Macs have never been for fratboys.
Huh. In my company, the only ones that use Macs are creative marketing (design people). Our IT department is a Windows shop, aside from a few of our servers. And those aren't Macs, either.
So Windows is for fratboys. And also for operations, facilities, purchasing, accounting, HR, finance, product development, QA, IT, call center, inside sales, outside sales, executives, and the rest of marketing who don't push pixels around all day.
Not every argument requires reduction to absurdity.
Your pastor? Of course, it should go without saying that red states are brimming with PC users.
Now I can replace my crappy windows box with a Mini. I'm one of those who need to test and run the occasional windows app. Virtual PC, BOCHS and other solutions have not worked for me so I keep an XP box in the closet and use it from the Mac through VNC.
Apple will make money off this as I plan to buy a second Mac just for XP and Linux. Yes, its more expensive but the Minis are so cute. No more big, ugly, noisy boxes.
Software written for Windows isn't usually anything a Mac user would want to use, anyway. Windows software is software aimed at the fratboy demographic, essentially, and Macs have never been for fratboys. The best applications in arts, design, music, and other creative pursuits always come out for Macs first, and Windows later, if ever.
That analogy is so ludicrous that you must be trolling. But to roll with it just for fun, the Mac demographic is the pampered rich-kid who has everything done for them because they can pay for it. This demographic actually intersects with the fratboy demographic, because many fratboys (and sorority girls) are spoiled rich kids. Therefore, Macs also are aimed at the rich fratboy demographic. The core of the Mac demographic is yuppies who also will probably have children who are fratboys.
Linux is aimed at the engineering demographic, the "geek" crowd, and also the hippie-types. Macs are getting a piece of the engineering/geek demographic, but only with the creation of OS X has this been true. It still doesn't touch the hippie demographics, nor does it touch poor geeks, geeks with hippie values, or the "true" geeks.
Windows is aimed at the average joe who is too stupid and too poor to choose otherwise even though there are better choices. It is also aimed at the business/sales type and the guy with an MBA degree (granted some of those are fratboys). It is also aimed at PC gamers, those stupid annoying 14-year-old boys that populate most internet forums.
Disclaimer: I am mostly a Linux user who uses Windows and OS X occasionally.
#!/
..the GP specifically said that it was *THE OFFICE* buying the PC.
Why would your employer pony up for an expensive Mac just so you can dual boot to get your OSX joyride when you take it home? They don't give a crap about that. They are buying the PC for you to do work on, if that work requires Windows, then they'll get you a Windows PC. End Of Story.
Why would you want to buy a mac to run windows on it?
So you can play games, and then have a mac for everything that isn't a directX-required game.
Windows does ONE thing better than macs, and that is roping in game devellopers.
You can't take the sky from me...
There are Frat boys who use linux....me, for one.
Empires grow and crumble, and the Turtle Moves. Gods come and go, and still the Turtle Moves. The Turtle Moves.
Uuuhh won't be out for years?
It is out, numbnuts. I'm using it right now for cryin' out loud. Microsoft even openly promotes MS Office for Mac.
In fact; the Office:Mac is further advanced than Office for Windows.
I despise Microsoft and their way of doing things, but this they did right.
You're aware that you're supposed to pay for your Windows license if you want to run Windows from within a Virtual PC or a VMWare station right?
"The way we can tell it's C# instead of Haskell is because it's nine lines instead of two." -- wadler
DRIVERS? even for iSight under Windows, to use with Skype (iChat3 doesn't work because of stupid Comcast QoS issues)?
Dull little people, in other words, dutifully performing dull little tasks.
"why someone would want to work in Windows when they could be working in OSX"
Off the top of my head... AutoCAD.
I'm sure that most Mac users that use their computer for something more than just email and web stuff could point you to an app that they'd like to run but can't on their Macs (I know. I've been a Mac user for 15 years). Their choice comes down to buying another computer, running it in VPC with all of the problems that entails, or now installing Windows natively. Which would you choose?
Oh wait, you were probably just trolling like the dozen other people that asked why under this story today.
In just the same way, if I was forced to choose between os x & windows, I'd choose os x, but it would be nice to have a copy of windows hanging around in case I wanted to play some games.
I completely agree, and the solution is VirtualPC. Yeah, you need to have a little more RAM to support the virtualization layer and still have plenty available to the Windows instance running on VirtualPC, but it's less expensive than two PCs, and less annoying by far than dual-booting.
Oh, and doesn't require the Intel hardware.
Dual-booting can be important and all, but with the relatively inexpensive options for virtualization (especially the upcoming free [gratis] VMWare Server product), there's almost no point.
We may not imagine how our lives could be more frustrating and complex—but Congress can. – Cullen Hightower
As for SMP Apple released the dual processor Power Mac 9500 in 1995. They started using PCI around 1996.
"Well we all know how that turned out..."
Apparently not.
This is a honest question: how is it possible that Windows drivers are written in a couple of days while drivers for Linux get written sometimes in a year or so (or never - as in ATI 3d drivers)? Isn't hardware proprietary in both circumstances? I'm jealous...
Oh come on, it's so painfully obvious that the Mac Mini is best SFF PC you can currently buy - who doesn't want one of these sat under their telly?
There are lots of third party codecs available for most other file formats. For xvid, try http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/17151 . WMV? Flip4Mac (which you can even get straight from microsoft now).
Once again, slashdot has not taken a look at what's really going on. If you want to know the actual status of driver, look at wiki.onmac.net or forums.onmac.net
As another reply to your post stated there is a project called "Q" that is a QEMU front end for OS X. I tried installing XP on it the other day and unfortunately it failed halfway through install. At least it was the second phase of install though (when it is registering COM components and such).
However, I did have success building WINE. I did not, however, use Darwine but instead grabbed normal Wine from CVS then applied a patch to context_i386.c to add support for Darwin.
Solitaire works. Minesweeper works. Pinball almost works (too slow to play). However, winedbg did not work and attempting to install IE didn't work either. But hey, it was worth a shot. I'm sure with a bit more work, winedbg could be made to work again and for all I know that work could already be done in the Darwine CVS.
The average Mac user made a conscious choice to use a Mac rather than Windows. One popular argument to choose a Mac is because it's easier to use than Windows, so 'getting addicted to Windows' is not very likely for a Mac user.
umm..... My Windows PC is MUCH more powerful than any Mac. In addition, I have the option of using AMD cpus (which I do), SLI (which is very nice) and most importantly, I have a huge library of games as well as the newest version of windows media center (which is simply great). Finally, I have the option of using linux if I so please (which I have running on my second pc). Please explain your porsche and camry comparison further. Becasue its not valid in my opinion.
He means Office:Mac Intel edition. Currently your running it in rossetta when your running it on a Mac. PErsonally doesnt matter much to me I am now running Pages for major text editing and textedit for light stuff since I dont actually use excel. Office IMHO is just to overtly bulky
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
Lets see you build a macbook pro yourself.
I've been upgraded to "bad"!
Considering the fact that Windows defenders always point to the wide array of hardware that Windows has to run on vs. the controlled architecture of an Apple, this is a chance for Windows to prove how stable it can be.
This is not a joke. Now there is a solid user base comprised of known machines. The drivers, etc. can be optimized to that.
I personally like Windows XP, never got into Macs, but this could be an excellent solution (once its hardened a bit) for a stable machine. Just a thought.
The people dual booting OS X and Windows could end up with more stable windows installations than a Dell, and certainly more stable than a homebrew machine.
> As for SMP Apple released the dual processor Power Mac 9500 in 1995.
This machine never had any official SMP support from Apple. You would have to wait until OS X shipped before SMP appeared for Mac users.
No, not trolling, just a genuine lack of understanding as to why someone who wants to run Windows apps wouldn't just buy a cheaper/more powerful machine that is more suited to the OS.
Read the great-grandparent post again. The GGP just asked for a non-Apple box with a footprint like the Mac Mini, not one that's functionally identical.
;-)
But to address your points:
"only a Pentium M rather than the Core Duo available in the Mini"
CPU's evolve constantly. I'm sure the PC clones of the Mac Mini will evolve, too.
"it's missing 2 USB ports"
Is is? Where? Does the Mac Mini have USB ports on the side? Seriously, I see two USB ports on the rear of both.
"bluetooth"
I'll have to take your word for it. I can see where that would be a nice thing to have, especially as the small form factor will always mean fewer ports to plug wires into.
The Mac Mini also has a POTS modem, which the AOpen box does not.
On the other hand, the AOpen box has S-video out, audio line in, and some mystery port I can't identify. Plus a power button.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
Except that VPC runs like ass on G5s compared to G4s (it took advantage of both the G4's endian-neutral ablity and AltiVec), and has never been as fast on OS X as it was on MacOS 9. Granted, OS X's far superior mutli-tasking means the computer is far more usable, but for what I use VPC for, audio filtering software unavailable on Macs, I boot to OS 9 to gain whatever speed advantage I can.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Hmm, I don't own a Porche, but I thought that part of the point of owning such a car was so that you could do things like shopping and show off. Who needs fuel economy if you're only going a couple miles? Perhaps a better example would be a long road trip where you need to save on gas and perhaps have a little more room. But even then, don't you want something that is fun to drive? And if you can afford a Porche, what's a little lost fuel economy to ya?
And as far as ganes go, that Mac Mini is going to be below par before you know it. You're goign to be wishing you had a dedicated gaming box.
-matthew
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
I mean, the Mac is a PC with EFI. The hardware in it is PC hardware. I am sure it is slightly more complicated then that, considering that Mac's typically take PC components like video cards and slightly alter the firmware or BIOS on them in order to make them "Mac" hardware (and charge 50% more for the same equivalent PC card), but again, how hard is it to get Windows to run on a PC?
Come one, this isn't news. Mac's are now 98% PC's, getting Windows to run on them is trivial considering Windows is an OS designed to run on millions of configurations of PC's as opposed to the 3 Macintel models Apple offer. Once EFI support is built into Vista, it will become even more trivial to run Windows on a "Mac".
Apple lost, period. They are a PC clone with a Unix based OS, everything Apple despised in the past is now their flagship product! Apple's new motto "Think Same!" or "If you can't beat em, join em!"
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
Did you read what he said? Did you think about it at all?
Virtualization simply does not not provide acceptable for certain classes of applications. Anything involving 3D acceleration falls into this category. Note that the guy you replied to mentioned "games" in his post.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Yes, but i can't afford to have 2 computers (Or I don't want to take up the space, or some other excuse), and since I need windows sometimes,
These excuses are next to ridiculous for the vast majority of Mac users.
Seriously. First off, if you can afford a Mac and all of its very expensive accessories (compare even 'inexpensive' items like mice and keyboards with even the likes of Dell), then you can probably afford a cheap Windows PC, which these days, can be had for as little as $300 (less if you are skillful in building your own machine).
If space is your concern, get a MiniITX box or better yet a notebook. Even these are cheap as heck these days.
My point: why run two operating systems on the same box? Just get another PC. They're cheap these days. Buy two.
My blog
Don't take my word for it. Go ahead and try.
The only people who think VPC can work for a demanding FPS haven't actually tried to play one with it.
damaged by dogma
Good deal! There are thousands and thousands of software products that are only available on Windows, and now I can run them on my Mac!
For instance, Norton AntiVirus for Windows, Adware Destroyer Plus, and so many other titles only work well under Windows.
would someone like to list some things that you cant do on a mac, but can on windows? ( other than playing games)?? i havent ran into any issues.
Sounds to me like you just about summed up SDL pretty well...
And the statement about multiple libraries? boo hoo, is it too much of a hassle to type -lGL -lSDL?
Dull little people payed 6 figures for managing dull little people developing dull little business apps netting dull little Trillions of dollars buying cute little Macs!
"They scream about not needing stuff like PMT, Protected Memory, SMP support, PCI, AGP, USB" Please show where Apple ever, EVER "screamed" against any of these technologies. They were one of the first with USB. They've had PCI forever as well as AGP. PMT, SMP came with OSX 1.0. What the hell are you talking about?!
I've been upgraded to "bad"!
Thank you! You have no idea how frustrating I find it to be when people talk about a MAC or, even worse, "Mac" the computer company.
Slashdot: 24 hours behind every other site or your money back!
And that would somehow make more sense?
Buying a whole new computer instead of buying just Windows, and in the case of a laptop, having to carry two computers around if you prefer Mac OS, but have to occasionally use a certain Windows app?
Not many people will be buying Macs to run just Windows, but for Mac users who don't want to also buy a PC, this is pretty damn useful. How do you not get that?
Virtual PC is useless for games.
Just face the facts - for a substatial amount of people who want to run multiple operating systems, two PCs are a pain to manage and virtual PC / vmware just dont cut it.
For these people (and those wanting to occasionally use a crappy windows-only-drivers-device) dual booting between windows & mac will be extremely useful.
My pics.
This is a honest question (that I previously asked in a wrong way): how is it possible that Windows drivers for Mac are written in a couple of days while open drivers for Linux get written sometimes in a year or so? Isn't hardware proprietary in both circumstances? I'm jealous...
But you've been able to run windows on a mac for years...
Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
Please explain why your little opinion matters to anyone else. Please explain why games matter to annyone but children. Please explain why having linux on a PC is a good thing. Please understand your windows PC is not "faster than any mac" under every circumstance. Clearly you thinlk games are all that matter. Professional media content creators would strongly disagree.
I've been upgraded to "bad"!
Heh. The wonders of TLA's. ;)
--
Given enough personal experience, all stereotypes are shallow.
MAC is an acronym in computer parlance. But is sure as hell doesn't refer to an Apple computer
But I could just buy a Mac Mini for $599, which is a very appealing computer. Small, extremely quiet, fast enough for most desktop needs, probably comparable to what you would get at Dell for the same price, except the Mac would be small and quiet, and the Dell would be large and loud.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
while you're porting sub-par operating systems to above-par hardware, why stop with a dead-end version of windows?
OS/2 is still out there, and it's not a moving target.
brilliant!
I kinda am skeptical of the mac-mini video, as the GMA950 shouldn't be so smooth on HL2.
"If I had my way I'd never even look at an MS logo for the rest of my life"
:-p
If I had my way, they'd just get good and honourable... having a decent corporation with the power of microsoft could do the software world, and the world in general, a lot of good... but then I'm an idealist
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
WTF ?!
...
No, wait... WTF !?
I guess Mac users must have been really unhappy and suicidal up to now that they couldn't use "every application available to their Windows counterparts"
Like Windows would be the definitive solution for everyone's sw/app needs on this planet.
Never mind.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
The funny thing is one of the Frats at my Alma Mater was nick named the "mac frat" because they required all of their brethren to use mac products over alternatives whenever possible....
Calling PC users frat-boys is pretty rediculous... If anything it's the mac users that more often consider themselves in some kind of "exclusive club".
I've considered the switch myself but a good number of the applications I use daily on the PC don't have mac counterparts. Sure the macs can handle the general use stuff (word processing/web browsing/email) but I'm not about to buy one JUST FOR THAT. I have devices that aren't computers at all that can even handle that stuff, like my cell phone for instance...
Collector's Edition
It's completely worthless, and it just reeks of this immature 'because we can' attitude.
It may or may not be especially useful, but doing things 'because we can' is NOT immature. It is the essence of scientific discovery, and at the core values of most hackers and geeks.
Guess I'll have to be better informed when I feed the trolls next time.
Unless official sides officially support Windows for Mac this will stay a niche product with variants for installation but the same instability and insecurity as with component x86 systems. OS X is to much of a good consitent appliance for Windows to break serious ground here.
It's the integration of hardware and software what Mac is about.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
How would a mac mini work for playing games using windows? I need a new graphics card but Mac mini isn't much more expensive, so if they play games well I might look at getting one and dual booting.
I like muppets.
I'd rather have a porsche, but if I could seamlessly degrade my porsche to a camry's performance to get the extra mileage, on occasion I would.
Or, you just pick the right Porsche and get decent fuel economy[1] and serious performance too!
[1] Speaking as someone who drives a Civic Hybrid on a regular basis.
Just junk food for thought...
Good for you. Many Mac applications, likewise, have no PC equivalents, or were Mac-only to begin with and remain best on the Mac. SubEthaEdit. Final Cut Pro. Salling Clicker. Aperture. Keynote. iTunes. Quicksilver. Adobe Creative Suite (with Colorsync). Shake. Logic Pro. Even Microsoft Office, after all these years, is still far superior on the Mac.
But if you're a pencil-pusher type, then I'm happy you've found a solution that works for you: a home in staid mediocrity. Different platforms for different people.
Is this possible to do? Is someone trying to do it? Because
if someone managed it it would be far better than windows
on a mac (cheaper hardware).
I think it's funny that we've got so many "what's the use? it's pointless!" posts, but when someone links a story of Linux running on a microwave people think it's the hottest thing ever.
Why? Because I'd like to use a Mac but I don't want to purchase a whole new software library all at once. This would let me kind of ease into it.
Donating $200,000 to running Linux on an unmodified Xbox? There's a real reason to ask 'why?'.
They will affect the OS, yes. Of course they will. This surprises you?
How are you supposed to use Windows on a MacBook when there's only 1 mouse button?
I wish Steve Jobs would get his head out of his ass about the 1 mouse button thing. The lack of a second mouse button is now the only thing stopping me from buying a MacBook. Yes, I know that you can just hook up a USB mouse, but that only works when using the laptop in a desktop situation.
As for the Mighty Mouse, that is a 1 1/2-button mouse. You can't click both the left and right buttons at the same time, making it useless for playing World of Warcraft.
Melissa
"Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
... then who cares how much the gas costs?
Do you really think that someone who can afford to buy an expensive sports car of that sort really gives a damn about fuel economy?
If you don't think it's funny you haven't seen the latest Volkswagen commercials. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-311188162 9525530694
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4930123970 122097095
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-453507180 6704857494
The last one is my favorite.
"Working Windows solution?!" What problem does this "solution" solve? The lack of virii & spyware on the Mac hardware platform?
Hmm... Let's see. First, Linux on a pc is good becasue its cheap. Universities have THOUSANDS of computers and each one has a license paid to microsoft. To not pay this would free up money for tuition for students, lab supplies or other software or hardware. This is very easy. I am a scientist working in the field of Neurophysiology and Rehab Medecine. I use the PCs for high speed video and analysis. The dual core athlon 64 cpus allow for extremely fast simultaneuous capture of high speed video from up to 12 cameras runing at 500 frames per second. I can compress the video to nice open source codecs using free opensource software like virtualdub. The analysis of the video is greatly aided by running 4 monitors (12 video sources!!!) The option to switch in and out of SLi allows for this very easliy. There are numerous other data capture processing techniques that I use. I am sure you can do most of this with a Mac too, but when I can compress a video and play a game at the same time, I just love that athlon 64. I dont mean to start a fight here, but please, I have a Phd, Masters, and 2 bachelors degrees. I am now working in the 4th year of my Post Doctoral Fellowship. However, I DO like to frag online when I cant leave the lab for hours on end becasue of extended background data processing or some other extended procedure. So if my opinion doesnt matter, why did I buy all the PCs for 3 compaines and numerous labs last year? This amounted to over 3000 computers. I would say my opionion does matter.
The fact that I can do this might make me by a MBP earlier than I had intended to.
This is good news for Mac users as it expands the alternate product reach. The downside I see is the whole Windows OS on your mac...this opens you up to all the pitfalls of Windows and for the majority of Mac users (Like me!) who enjoy avoiding complexity this solution isn't ideal. Not to mention the fact that most of the time I only need a few apps for work and would really rather not hassle with dual boots, OS patches, security issues, drivers etc. etc. A few weeks a ago I found an alternative when I got my new proBook and had no more Virtual PC. The Mac store actually recommended a service called Northstar (http://www.northstaraccess.net./ This lets me publish applications and subscribe to applications via their network on demand. Cheap and I don't buy or install windows junk. I've been running windows apps in a native environment without infesting my nice new Mac. Plus I just take what I want, when I want and they deal with all the hassles. My guess is that solutions like this will have more impact with the mac community and be much less frustrating/risky than dual boot. Neat concept though...just don't want to junk up my mac for the sake of a few required and non-ported apps.
Why would you put a mac mini under the telly?
It has no video in. No optical audio out. A small hard drive. Pathetic CPU power that's struggle to expand HD.
It's OK as an introduction to the mac (or in my case a build platform for the osx ports of software - I just ssh in, cvs update, make then leave it.. don't care that it's the slowest machine I own as I'm on the beer before it finishes).
All the over confident mac users not using any anti-virus software, sooo sure that they are immune to any viruses just because they use a mac.... I cant wait till they all get infected
...and just how long have you been building your own PCs? Every machine I've built was stable, it was the OS that was not. I've been doing this since the 8088 Intel processor came out.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Optical mice can be used on any non-shiny surface anywhere, in any orientation. I use my leg as a mousing surface all the time when I don't have a desk to work on, and unless you have a lot of vinyl or pleather pants in your wardrobe, you can too.
Failing that, I'm sure there's a Windows utility out there that lets you remap a key you don't use often as a right-click modifier or just plain right-click. Go find it, and quit your damned bitching about every little thing.
I know this may be considered silly, but: I don't care to run XP. I run Windows 2000, because I own legal copies, because the OS is rock solid, because it doesn't seem to vacuum up the viruses and spyware that XP does, it doesn't spy on my system and phone home to Redmond (oh, XP will, just give it time), and finally, 2000 doesn't shut itself off I change too many hardware components, and require me to beg Redmond to turn it back on. It just works. And I really don't care about games.
Is this massive knowledge base being built for installing XP applicable or adaptable to installing 2000 on the Mac? Drivers, yup. That would be a problem. But generally?
just curious. . .What audio filtering software are you talking about? Cause there are many options available for a mac user as well. What does your prefered software for the windoz only have that is not available of another brand of software available for the mac? I only ask because you are obviously using a mac, so why not use audio software that is mac software? Just seems the effort and time needed to first boot Classic, then boot VPC in classic, would seem to me to actually slow everything down much more then VPC in OSX, or getting new software that is native for the mac platform.
Self proclaimed wannabe geek. You know how it is. Most of us who read this stuff probably fit in that category.
I can't find any information about how the OS used the two processors, though... Was this feature built into OS 7/8/whatever was used back then?
MS representing on the Apple tip ya'll.
redmond engineering in da house, ya
No, no no no! Who modded this up? You're missing key points in your supposed argument.
..Mac Journaled something or other), so, if I have all my eggs in order, unless the virus that is infecting windows throws shit around the entire harddrive, a 1 here, a 0 there, it cannot infect/exploit the Mac portion of the system/their vulnerabilities. Mac OSX is a Unix Tank. You can't destroy it that easily.
Viruses, unless coded to work with different OS archetecture, cannot just infect a MacBook Pro running Windows XP, for example, and move over to the OSX portion of the mac and infect that too. They are running completely different file permissions systems (NTFS vs.
Thats like saying Windows viruses can infect Linux. It just doesn't work that way.
Whoops, I should read my own links more closely... the 9500 was indeed from 1995, but the dual-processing 9500 was from '96.
According to Microsoft
So as of now it is a wait and see, but I bet I know what Microsoft is up to. I bet they will drop their apple native line apps and just have people buy Virutal PC 8 and buy a windows version. Hey if it works it works...
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
That's a lot of cash and effort just to use quicken.
*** For a better tommorow, change your life today ***
those are all fully licensed copies of windows right?
why? he asks, into the screaming wind...
-- it's ridiculous how many people misspell ridiculous... (damn, damn, damn...)
Quicken contains 13 years' worth of account data for me, including my business accounts and invoicing details. The monetary cost of getting access to that data is absolutely negligable compared to the data's worth to me.
Cheers
Ian
And somebody with mod points found that interesting! Why do we read slashdot? I can feel my brain shrivelling up as I type this
Homme petit d'homme petit, s'attend, n'avale
This won't provide a simple or cheap way to run XP. You'll have to reinstall your system as dual boot and buy an XP license. Not something many people would do in order to play a game.
the devs could program in DX, where their skill set lies, and the translation layer can deal with the OS issues.
0xB315AA8D852DCD3F3DCA578FD2E0BF88
I put degrade in faux quotes, because you aren't degrading, you're detuning. All it takes is an ECU swap. Though, in this case, you'd have to ask them to specifically write up a fuel/air map to provide better fuel economy.
Some high end cars have a switch/button that you can press to put the motor into a more performance oriented setup. Kinda like the turbo button PCs used to have.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
I don't know about dreamweaver in particular, but I can move about to dropdowns every where else... whether or not a control is open to system events, is up to the application developer, not the OS.
It's not Apples fault that Macromedia left a control out of the tab index. but with the accessibility options turned on, nearly every control should be available to keyboard input.
-- it's ridiculous how many people misspell ridiculous... (damn, damn, damn...)
There was a multiprocessor extension that loaded if you had one. Sorta like the old system enablers. Most programs didn't use it though, they had to hook into it. Photoshop and stuff like that had support for it, but it wasn't like everything was load-balanced and both processors used equally like OS X does.
Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
I guess you could just buy a damn motorcycle and not have to degrade performance to get good mileage.
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." - H.L. Mencken
Funniest comment I've seen anywhere on this subject. Virtual karma to you.
That way, at least if you're running on ugly overpriced gay designer hardware, it can still have a decent OS!
And then you can plug a Dell mouse and keyboard into it (which work perfectly, of course) and you've got a small, fast, quiet (mine is virtually silent even when running flat out) computer WITH cheap accessories!
there are three p's in 'trippple'. you're thinking of 'doubble'.
thanks
First off, this is a dedicated effort, akin to getting linux on your toaster. But second, there indeed is a niche group of mac users who like computers in general so will most likely try this. Third, there is also a niche group that actually needs windows from time to time and is savvy enough to maintain a windows machine on generic hardware for that, so why not a dual install on their mac. So hurray!
I think, therefore I am...I think.
Um, go check out the Apple Store. They released a new mini. Core Solo or Core Duo (so much for slow), optical audio in AND out, works great with USB and Firewire TV video capture devices, up to 120 GB 7200 RPM HD, very easy to add external Firewire or USB drives (costs you the price of the drive +$30 for a case), gigabyte ethernet, airport, Front Row and remote.
The only problem is the shared memory graphics, but that's irrelevant unless you want to play games. Seriously, it's a great computer for the price, particularly as a media/file/web/etc. server.
i've been running osx86 on my gateway laptop for about 4 months now, and people have had it running since august, so it has been for a while. I think the main reason XP on Mac has been done is because of the idea of: look we got os x on generic pc hardware, let's go do it the other way around.
So you see what had happened was....
The 3D api you described is actually GL's, DirectX does NOT implement stuff in software that isn't there, if it isn't there, it just won't work (r) with GL you *will* know that everything in the spec will 'just work' you'll just have to query for non-spec extensions, just as with directX, because stuff not in the ARB or the spec might or might not be available.
DirectX was actually a huge step backwards from GL in almost every sense, when it comes to 3d graphics, it was only moderatly useful for 2d graphics, sound and input in the 'early' days.
directX *still* won't implement missing features in software, and, you must have a pretty good idea of the target hardware, because YOU the developer must keep the GPU busy, GL does that FOR you.
Plus, the directX api is, like all api's microsoft ever made, overly verbose, and VERY bloated. pointers to bools... juck...
Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity
Our Entourage's works dandy with Exchange servers as longs as the username is the same as the primary email. (there's a hint for you)
br
m10 (Finland)
Why would they? You've already bought their system, why would they want to expend resources to crack down? The reason they crack down on making sure people can't (read: "have a hard time") using OS X on other systems is that they want you to buy their own systems, which I think is one of the reasons it works so well: they control the hardware.
Think of it as a rider lawn mower, why drive it around town? Because sometimes people don't have enough money (or need) to use a regular car. In this case, sometimes people need to use Windows but can't be bothered (for one reason or another) to put forth effort and resources (money, space, electricity) for an extra computer.
Personally I think it's more of a proof of concept thing, yeah, you can, but more or less useless. An Aqua'd wine would be much better...
Why would you put a mac mini under the telly?
In my case, because it works perfectly. I don't have HD (can't even get OTA reception since I moved), and for SD even the 1.25GHz G4 is overkill for DVR stuff.
Pathetic CPU power that's struggle to expand HD.
They're Intel now. A 1.67GHZ Core Duo for $800 isn't "pathetic". The integrated graphics on the other hand...
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
"Mac users now have a complete and working Windows solution."
Cool. Uh... so... why do I want that?
Right now I agree virtualization is too slow for anything that's even remotely "real time" like games, and I'm using the term loosely, but soon with dual-core and quad-core systems coming out it should be possible pretty seamlessly: imagine a quad core conroe/athlon 64 2.6-2.8 GHz, with native OS virtualization (Pacifica for AMD, I dunno for Intel) and 8 gygs of ram... *drool*
imagine a beowulf cluster of these guys...
From Amazon.com:
Microsoft Windows XP Professional with Service Pack 2:
List Price: $299.99
Microsoft Virtual PC for Mac 7.0 with Windows XP Professional:
List Price: $249.99
Wow! It like, boggles the mind. I mean, CostOf(VirtualPC + Windows) CostOf(Windows)
But, it's true!
You can't install with the Windows CDs from the VirtualPC disks though. So, that means you can't just go out save $50 buying the VirtualPC edition, and install it on your computer.
I am unamerican, and proud of it!
Actually, it is _not_ a regular retail version. Apple only sells upgrades. Yes, you can blow away your Mac's HD and install from scratch from the box, but the intention is that it is an upgrade to a previously installed version of MacOS.
See: http://www.apple.com/macosx/upgrade/
Why would I need to buy tax software, when I can do it online at TurboTax.com, hrblock.com, and a multitude of others? For Americans, what need is there to use dedicated tax software?
;)). Some of them were some of the best dynamic web applications I'd seen in a LONG time, too.
For Non-Americans, I don't know if there are web-based tax tools... but I imagine there are, given the successes we have seen here in the states.
A web-based application is quite often platform-agnostic (unless they are retarded and require IE
>But can it run....
>AmigaOS 4 ?!!
Hyperion would not allow the AmigaOS to run on such easily available hardware. The only candidates are unavailable (AmigaOne, where are you?) or vapourware (Amy05? Show us something already!).
Do the Intel Macs have the virtualization hardware needed to run Xen properly?
That's a lot of cash and effort just to use quicken.
Quicken contains 13 years' worth of account data for me, including my business accounts and invoicing details. The monetary cost of getting access to that data is absolutely negligable compared to the data's worth to me.
Cheers
Ian
I understand you need too keep your financial records accessible. However, myself, I would never let my data be tied up into a proprietary format.
What happens if Quicken goes belly-up, or gets bought out, or any of a thousand other things that could happen to cause support for Quicken and/or its' current data formats to cease?
I know that F/OSS tax/bookeeping software isn't as polished as its' Windows non-free brethren, but just the fact that I will always be able to access that data with whatever free and open-standard programs I wish to run makes up for the whistles and bells in my case.
I understand the devil is in the details, and there may be certain details and facts of your situation that make switching to a more open solution extremely difficult or impossible at this time.
I'd keep an eye on the major F/OSS tax/bookeeping software projects, and maybe even drop a forum post or an e-mail to the developers, stating what features/abilities/formats would be needed to be added or fixed to make using their software (and switching *away* from your current solution) more of a do-able, realistic task.
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
I'm not going to say silly things like, "Don't put the inferior OS on my pristine Mac." One of the main reasons holding a lot of people back from a Mac has been that one holdout, the business that must have this or that application. Now, you can have your cake and eat it too! The original guiding principle of the Mac was the old '60s slogan, power to the people. If it means more ability to do what you need or want to do, I'm all for it. One thing is, if you dual boot on a Mac, there's a limited number of drivers the hacking community will have to get you. A new model comes out with a new ATI card, and I guess it'll be a while before the proper driver shows up. But compare that to the Windows, heterogenous platform. If Apple were to sell its OS to the Dell crowd, think of the almost limitless number of drivers you'd have to develop. It'll be much easier to run a Mac dual boot than the reverse. I'd prefer to have the ability to run a WINE variant, so you wouldn't have to install the OS. I don't know if that will ever be possible. Or if MS ever gets off their asses, it would be fine to have a Virtual PC 8.0 for Intel Macs -- getting real speed without having to leave OS X, that would be ideal. But until then, this is just fine. And if some hideous people PREFER XP, it doesn't bother me if they install XP on their Macs alone. After all, 80% of Apple's profits are from hardware.
All of which makes it even harder for the beancounters in your enterprise job(tm) to say "No, you can't have one of those because it can't run Approved Software(tm)".
Yeah, doood! 'Way to stick it to "The Man"!
realise you were posting on /. ? Peopl here, myself included, build entire new rigs to play games.
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
I understand you need too keep your financial records accessible. However, myself, I would never let my data be tied up into a proprietary format.
13 years ago, that was the choice. There was no non-proprietary equivalent.
What happens if Quicken goes belly-up, or gets bought out, or any of a thousand other things that could happen to cause support for Quicken and/or its' current data formats to cease?
It's already happened - I use Quicken UK, and they've withdrawn from the UK market. But it doesn't matter to me - I use the 2002 Deluxe And Business Edition under an emulator Windows 2000, and the functionality is just the same. So long as a PC emulator exists, the software lives on.
I know that F/OSS tax/bookeeping software isn't as polished as its' Windows non-free brethren, but just the fact that I will always be able to access that data with whatever free and open-standard programs I wish to run makes up for the whistles and bells in my case.
Well...sort of. Free doesn't imply perpetual. I do agree with this point, but I'm more cautious in my backing for it. If a project dies, then whether the format was known or not doesn't really matter unless I'm prepared to pay a developer to get it imported into some new project, or do the work myself.
I understand the devil is in the details, and there may be certain details and facts of your situation that make switching to a more open solution extremely difficult or impossible at this time.
This is a key point - I've actually tried out many other packages to see if I could migrate away. None of them successfully imported my previous data files - they all got the balances wrong, the inter-account transfers wrong...nothing worked. Not even Quicken itself - the Mac version. So I'm a bit stuck at the moment, waiting for improvements and patiently filing bug reports.
I'd keep an eye on the major F/OSS tax/bookeeping software projects, and maybe even drop a forum post or an e-mail to the developers, stating what features/abilities/formats would be needed to be added or fixed to make using their software (and switching *away* from your current solution) more of a do-able, realistic task.
Absolutely, and that's exactly what I'm doing. I'm continuing to use Quicken 2002 under emulation, because it does the job and the job is rather important. But I'm not blindly following it - I do look around every so often to see if there's a place I can jump to.
Cheers,
Ian
"I have a Phd, Masters, and 2 bachelors degrees."
And they haven't taught you <br> yet?
This sig has been deprecated.
What I'd like to know is that, since the macintosh seems to be a straight forward technical product line, what the hell is up with all the acompanying gay sex? Can't apple hire a few heteros?
Students can usually get MS software for a large discount.
Wink wink.
I mean with you student ID at the campus store...
sigh....
i guess roughly 0% of all the people having posted here have more than just one computer.
seriously, i dont give a rats ass if i could install windos xp or whatever crap on a mac.
my macs either run osx or linux, or both, or netbsd.
my pcs run either freebsd, linux, or any sort of game-playing dos98 or similar and most of the it is some sort of unix running on it.
btw: playing games on a laptop sucks anyway.
t
Good argument. Well, it would be if 90% of the roads in the world were compatible with Camry's but not Porches.
Why not just do it the easy way....keep one box as a windows box, or one that is dual boot win/linux...just for the few things you need winders for...like Quicken. Heck a new Dell can be had for cheap...or get a used PC for dirt cheap and keep if for the few things you want it for. In my place, i've got one box that is dual boot linux/windows just for some tax software and only goes into windows for that...I have one old P3 800 Mhz that is dedicated to my MAME cabinet...it is using win98 I think... But other than that, all my other boxes around the house are running linux (some of them are sun boxes). I have the one mac laptop, and it is my on the go computer (dual boot with gentoo linux too).... But, really, with hardware pc's a dime a dozen these days....just dedicate one box in your house to windows needs...and be done with it.... If you have to hook into it, use VNC or set up an ssh server on it....
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
True, there isn't one for the Intel platform yet - didn't know that's what he meant. ;)
I have a PPC G5 myself, so I'm content with mac-native software
I can see your point, but what happens when a given software company is looking at what platforms to write their software for, and sees a Mac user can easily boot / run Windows? Why are they going to pay a bunch of money for Mac developers when they know you'll just dual boot your Mac to run the Windows version?
At that point, why write OS X apps at all? Because it runs better or it has transparent windows? (sarcasm)Yeah, I'm sure software companies are going to fork over lots of money just to maintain an OS X codebase just for that...(/sarcasm) I would think many apps that might have been ported to the Mac or are currently maintained will dry up. This is good for the Mac user in the short term but ultimately hurt Apple in the long run.
d-oh!
-- Boycott Shell
If I get the performance of a Porche with the reliability of a Camry, that's a win win.
Seriously though, if I could get XP to run on an iMac, for me the only times I'd run XP is to run all those games that I've been wanting to play but haven't made it to Mac yet like Battle for Middle Earth, KOTOR 2, Vampire Bloodlines, etc. Otherwise I'd just keep it in Tiger.
-Bahamude
Desktop use I'd agree with you, but I do a lot of work on trains so I want just one laptop that does everything. Until recently, this was a Powerbook running Virtual PC (Quicken isn't the slightest bit performance sensitive). Thanks to someone stealing my Powerbook however, I was forced to upgrade a bit faster than I'd have liked to and I now have an Intel laptop for which no Windows emulation is available yet, though Qemu work is promising.
Cheers,
Ian
Your post contains two myths:
1. Being able to run Windows on a Mac means fewer and fewer ports of Windows software.
Being able to hack your Mac to run Windows does not reduce demand for Mac ports. Everyone who installs Windows on a Mac just to play a game or run some program, would much rather buy the game or program for the Mac, if given the choice. What it does do is increase (slightly) the demand for the Windows version.
Absolutely nobody would prefer to hack their Mac to run Windows, then reboot into Windows just to play a game, over doing so natively on OS X.
You mention Linux, but that's a faulty comparison. The main reasons for fewer Linux ports of Windows software is that Linux is harder to support commercially. Yes, it can be, and has been, done, but it's still significantly harder.
2. Voting with your wallet.
This sounds nice in theory, but does not work in practice. The first problem is the comparison to democracy. In ideal democracy, each person gets an equal vote, and those votes don't cost you money or opportunity. In "voting with your wallet", those with more money have more votes.
The second problem is that if you "vote for the Mac" by not buying Counter-Strike 2 to run on Windows on your Mac, then you have to do without Counter-Strike 2. The only way "voting with your wallet" counts is when you have a choice. If you have the choice between buying CS 2 for Mac or Win, then when you buy the Mac version, you are voting for the Mac version. How can you vote for the Mac version if it's not on the metaphorical ballot?
The best compromise between "voting with your wallet" and reality would be to buy the Windows game only if you really want it, and to make sure you contact the developer asking for a Mac version. If they see the demand is high enough, they may do one of the following: port the game to the Mac; contract out porting of the game to another company; (or at the very least) consider strongly making their next game for Windows and Mac.
*snrk*
Hehehe...dude, if you're buying a Porsche....you simply don't worry about gas mileage!!!
I lost my '86 911 Turbo to katrina.....I miss the thing. It only got about 10 mpg on a good week.....while I owned it, I can honestly tell you, I never looked at the gas pump for the price....
You drive one of those for pure fun....with a Porsche, it is one thing to be able to afford one...it is quite another to be able to afford to DRIVE one....repairs are a killer.
I did used to get a kick out of people, usually from Europe dissing American's driving gas guzzling SUV's....my little European car didn't get near the mileage an SUV got...but, sure was fun to drive!! RIP.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Electronic Fuel Injection? What?
ALL HAIL THE BEAST THAT ASCENDETH FROM THE PIT WITH HIS CUTE WIDDLE NOSE =^o.o^=
for years 'you' have been telling 'me' that my hardware was too expensive and proprietary , now 'you' are killing each other trying to get an outdated OS to run on it? FFS!
You obviously are not familiar with the concept of "truthiness".
Most people who dual-boot are doing so between linux and windows so that they can play windows games.
Me, I have music (that I write and record, not mp3s) software and files on my windows PC that I can't walk away from, but I'm trying to do all my new work on a Mac. Now I can actually pick up a mac mini and dual-boot OSX and windows for all my music stuff.
This also means I can take my old PC and turn it into a dedicated linux box, since it was the need to access my windows-based music that prevented it in the past.
I am a happy clam.
Also a lot of the "less than useful components" in macs are more useful at selling time than at purchase time - iBooks started including 802.11b slots in 1999. I was able to sell my Powermac g4 for about 1/2 of what I paid for it (not including upgrades like RAM and additional disk drives), after 2 1/2 years of use.
The sentiment " Just get another PC. They're cheap these days" is true. It also means there is little incentive to try and sell a used PC. I agree with you wholeheartedly that some accessories are overpriced - thats why I use an IBM multi button mouse instead of a mighty mouse.
Tried DOSBox??
09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
. . . as opposed to PC users, who clearly don't.
http://outcampaign.org/
Well...sort of. Free doesn't imply perpetual. I do agree with this point, but I'm more cautious in my backing for it. If a project dies, then whether the format was known or not doesn't really matter unless I'm prepared to pay a developer to get it imported into some new project, or do the work myself.
Actually, the pure F/OSS projects (as opposed to open projects that may use proprietary formats or libraries, or that have non-Free licensing terms) use open data format standards, which should make the data translatable or even straight-importable to another F/OSS application.
Also, you *do* have the source code, so you *can* modify it, or pay someone else to, if you desire. You don't have that option with closed-source, normally.
This is a key point - I've actually tried out many other packages to see if I could migrate away. None of them successfully imported my previous data files - they all got the balances wrong, the inter-account transfers wrong...nothing worked. Not even Quicken itself - the Mac version. So I'm a bit stuck at the moment, waiting for improvements and patiently filing bug reports.
Agreed, the state of migrational paths and tools is not all it could be, not helped at all by copyright, patent, DMCA, DRM, and other current IP control, regulation, and legislation.
Costs, labor, and time required to migrate make it a daunting task. On the plus side, the costs are generally one-time, with a minimally-costly and troublesome migration path from F/OSS app or platform to F/OSS app. or platform for future migrations.
I'd keep an eye on the major F/OSS tax/bookeeping software projects, and maybe even drop a forum post or an e-mail to the developers, stating what features/abilities/formats would be needed to be added or fixed to make using their software (and switching *away* from your current solution) more of a do-able, realistic task.
Absolutely, and that's exactly what I'm doing. I'm continuing to use Quicken 2002 under emulation, because it does the job and the job is rather important. But I'm not blindly following it - I do look around every so often to see if there's a place I can jump to.
Cheers,
Ian
Excellent! I'm a believer in F/OSS, but I'm not fanatical. There is a real world where people have priorities, responsibilities, and immediate needs that *have* to be dealt with.
With the fairly-rapid pace of development in the F/OSS world, I'm confident that (barring additional IP restrictions/legislation or anti-interoperative measures by the proprietary vendors) migrational paths will continue to improve.
Thanks for your insightful, balanced, and well-written response!
Cheers right back, and good luck!
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
But why would mac users want to run windows on their machines? I prefer windows, pro MS, whatever tag you want to give me, but seriously, don't apple users think osX (or whichever version they run) is much better than (or perfect compared to) windows XP?
Someone poke me with a stick when there is a hardware mod to cut the mouse button in to two sides.
So lets see here, its Slashot...oooooh shiny...uh what was I doing? Oh yeah lets postpostpost about the Intel Macs. Post the story first and read the articles linked in the story later....if ever.
Seriously this story is stupid.
1. NO ONE HAS A WORKING ACCELERATED VIDEO DRIVER WORKING ON XP UNDER MAC
2. The person who submitted this story THINKS that their MIGHT be a driver because they saw those two videos on YouTube of all places of someone with a Mac Mini that showed Half-Life 2 running as well as on a MacBook Pro.
3. If you read the forums on onmac.net and osx86project NO ONE has working accelerated video.
4. Blanka and narf are NOT working on the video drivers
5. No pooftas!
6. See #1. Repeat.
And thus, the vulnerabilities start to arise on OS X.
"Instant gratification takes too long." - Carrie Fisher
Mac laptops have had W-enhanced track pads since 2002. This means they support the use of two fingers on the track pad.
For right-clicking functionality on a Mac laptop you would just put down two fingers and click.
For scrolling you would drag the two fingers in one of many ways, such as vertical, horizontal, or even circular.
In this way the Macs have a superior interface by having a UI that only needs 1 button, but the hardware is much more functional to support the poor programs to operate on the hardware as well. It also prevents a laptop user from accidentally performing a right click.
That's okay, because nobody uses video.
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
Hi all - could I make a tiny observation about all the "...but you are missing the point..." posts - its actually about choice - not whether one OS is 'better' than the other. If I choose to use Windows for something or other and MacOSX for something or other else, then why would anyone else need to take pseudo-moral umbrage? Choice is what the free market is all about. Now I have the choice, and can even have the choice as to whether I exercise my choice. So my meta-choice is what protects me from technological slavery and monopoly. I don't 'need' to or 'have' to or 'am required to' any more, I can choose to. Cheers
very easy to add external Firewire or USB drives (costs you the price of the drive +$30 for a case)
WHOOOA there buddy. Firewire/USB bridgeboards (bridgeboard? You know, because "firewire hard drive" is an oxymoron and they need a converter). Those add about $80 to the thing, PLUS $20-30 for the power supply, and THEN the case.
Don't forget that bridgeboards SLOW PERFORMANCE. It's embarrassing, really.
Trust me, I'm a REAL professional and I bought a PowerMac "only 2 internal drives" G5. Try stuffing a terabyte and a 10,000rpm boot drive in there without one of those new-fangled case-mods.. I dare you.
Those case mods are cool though.. you can stuff drives in the "processor" bay, behind the PCIs (does you no good with my 12" 6800 Ultra, but oh well), or even replace your optical drive with 4 SATA drives.
However, it still costs $70 EACH for those case mods, NOT INCLUDING THE CONTROLLER card (~$100).
So $30 is a bad estimate. Me? I ended up buying an external SATA controller card, building my own case, and using a PC power supply. $150 total... not including drives.
Latewire
Now it's just a bunch of smarmy "know it alls" that don't know shit.
Where ARE the drivers you effing trolling retards?
... So I ping every machine I know of in onmac.net, go on netcraft to get statistics, read every mac forum I think of to see why the sites might have been taken off line ... And then I come to Slashdot, and I see the story. Alright, then. Now, I get it.
I'll just have to wait a day or two for the army of clickers to move on to their next preys.
wtf are you going on about? He was talking about the mac mini as a pvr not a power mac; no one needs a terebyte worth of hdd for a pvr. I paid about $AUD 40-60 (?) for my external firewire enclosure... Apparently it didn't take your advice as it seems to work fine.
btw, even garbage collectors are, as you say, "REAL professional". It means didly if you don't mention your field of work. If you get paid for doing work it makes you a professional (as opposed to an amateur, who does it for enjoyment).
Perhaps you're suffering from REAL-professional-itis. You see, I JUST BOUGHT an external hard drive case at Christmas for $20. That's right, $20. I admit, it only had USB 2.0. Firewire usually costs a few dollars more.
Now, embarrassingly slow performance... maybe if you compare it to an SATA RAID array, yeah, but it's quite adequate for a media pc. Recall that we ARE talking about a computer "sat under [your] telly."
not first post, first post asking "why" - at least the first I saw.
Note that the guy you replied to mentioned "games" in his post.
Note also that he didn't say "the newest, greatest 3D FPS games." I've played a few RPG's and sim games under VPC, and it works just fine. For those buying an Intel Mac, you can look forward to VMware support (hopefully soon).
Virtualization can cut both ways -- if VMware does the work, one could have a Windows PC (even if it's Apple hardware) booted for the heavier gaming requirements, and virtualize the OSX session.
We may not imagine how our lives could be more frustrating and complex—but Congress can. – Cullen Hightower
It means didly if you don't mention your field of work.
I work in final cut pro about half the time--storing huge amounts of movie data is a must. I was poking fun at the fact that Apple prides itself as the king of (now HD) movie editing, yet their best computer only holds 2 hard drives without [expensive or timeconsuming] case mods. How exactly are you supposed to import raw HD video without a RAID?
Now, as for enclosures, I didn't realize bridgeboards had come down in price so much (back in my day...). It looks like oxford is dumping its 911 series on the market now, they used to be $50 wholesale.
After looking on froogle.com briefly, however, the cheapest firewire enclosure costs $60.. still twice as much as he originally suggested. True, USB bridgeboards may make it cheaper, but I'd really be wary about doing even MPEG2 over USB2.
Latewire
I'm sorry if you feel that anyone who disagrees with you is automatically stupid, but this development is just not that important.
You are wasting you breath on this windows drone. He is only dimmly aware that other OSs even exist. What puzzles me is why more and more of his ilk are trolling this site. Guess he got tired of ZDNet.
an ill wind that blows no good
Use FW800(cheap) or fibre(for real Pro's) to connect to Xserve with 1.5 TB storage - it will cost you exaclty 30 seconds of montage price. Or less, if you are real professional.
Or buy 4-way sata raid controller, drill 1(one) hole in cover of your mac and stack 4 drives NEAR mac and get 150Mb/s 1.2 TB storage under 1200 $. sata cables are thin and long, you know?
I'm pissed off at Apple for Allowing Windblows to run on Intel i Macs. Now us Mac users will be a lot more prone to catching computer viruses. I knew it would happen eventually, But I did not think that Apple would make it so easy for hackers to bypass Apples hardware. I'm pissed.
XFce
I've always wondered about running Windows from within VMware on a Windows [same one] host.
Although technically they are both on the same computer, the hardware that each sees would be completely different. It is likely that there is no way for any program to realize that both are the same computer.
So when you go to "Windows Update", it probably raises a little flag to indicate that two entirely differnet computers (different MAC addr, hardware, etc) are using the same license key.
I have, but sadly, I have never really had a chance to sit down and work with it. I have a feeling it would meet our requirements, but it's an issue of time to get it fully configured and set up correctly.
/. I should have time to do this *smile*
Of course, If I have time to
--nutz
The AC is only telling part of the story. No, dual processors weren't really supported by the operating system until OS X. However, Apple did sell MP systems (one of the cloners had a quad box, IIRC) and they were usuable, but only by specially designed applications like Photoshop. They used a multi-processing system extention, but it was a fugly setup.
I've always wondered about running Windows from within VMware on a Windows [same one] host.
You could read the EULA, or the PUR.
"You may install up to two copies of the software on one device."
"Sure, we all know that Windows can now run on intel Apple Computers."
Yup, and we knew this from a former article. Nothing new here.
"Alas, the solution does not include drivers"
Wrong. Read wiki.onmac.net/index.php/Users/Drivers. Most drivers work perfectly. The only things missing are iSight and IR drivers. Sound drivers don't work unless you use headphones. And graphics drivers only work on the Mac mini.
"and until now Mac users could still only hope to be able to use every application available to their Windows counterparts."
Um, yea that is the hope. Duh. Obviously the things that are not working are mostly the things that rely on the unwritten drivers. Again, 5 minutes on the onmac wiki and you would see wiki.onmac.net/index.php/Users/Software, which has the current list of working software that's been tested.
"However, with drivers now working 100% on the Mac Mini and drivers for the MacBook Pro only lacking video (which, by the looks of the 2nd link is only days away), Mac users now have a complete and working Windows solution."
Um, no. Reading the forums, there are serious issues with coming out with working graphics drivers. The graphics driver forum post is like 36 pages long. At any rate, this article tells us absolutely nothing. Wouldn't it make a bit more sense to release an article AFTER the graphics drivers have been made, informing people about that fact? People don't want to know that drivers are ALMOST ready, because they've been almost ready for like a month now.