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Yeah, how about it?

Speed's a bit of an issue, but it should be more than adequate for 10-year-old DOS games. :)

Paul

If you want me as a customer, do whatever you can to promote open standards and Windows emulators.

Virtual PC may be what you're looking for.

It's very much like VMWare, except it's actually emulating a different architecture.

can the iBook run a Window applications at all competently?

Most Mac applications run in a window; very few run in the full screen, and they're mostly either media players or games. And if you meant Windows with an S (wouldn't that be Sindows?), Connectix Virtual PC handles that quite nicely.

What sort of equivalent Intel CPU does it emulate?

Pentium MMX family. Clock speed may vary, but last time I checked, its video drivers were hardware accelerated. Windows 9x was highly responsive last time I tried VPC (on a 233 MHz original bondi blue iMac).

I'd do an iBook in a heartbeat, except that my key application is available only for Windows.

Which application is that? Have you used it in Virtual PC? (Used, not guessed.) And have you written the maintainer about the platform support issue?

(Funny: Virtual PC is now available for Windows. It's a vmware clone.)

can the iBook run a Window applications at all competently?

Most Mac applications run in a window; very few run in the full screen, and they're mostly either media players or games. And if you meant Windows with an S (wouldn't that be Sindows?), Connectix Virtual PC handles that quite nicely.

What sort of equivalent Intel CPU does it emulate?

Pentium MMX family. Clock speed may vary, but last time I checked, its video drivers were hardware accelerated. Windows 9x was highly responsive last time I tried VPC (on a 233 MHz original bondi blue iMac).

I'd do an iBook in a heartbeat, except that my key application is available only for Windows.

Which application is that? Have you used it in Virtual PC? (Used, not guessed.) And have you written the maintainer about the platform support issue?

(Funny: Virtual PC is now available for Windows. It's a vmware clone.)

• OpenBSD
• MacOnLinux which lets you run Mac OS on top of Linux
• Darwin which lets you run the X server and related programs
• Windows if you have to via emulation (which is also very fast.

You can already run linux on a G3 or G4 with Virtual PC, and you can even keep OS X installed in the background in case you need it!

Connectix Virtual PC for MacOS X and Redhat Linux running together is a better a choice for linux on Mac. The PowerPC Linux project is best suited for the non-Mac PPC boxen.

About the only thing VirtualPC won't run is Windows versions before 95.

Virtual PC will run both Linux and Windows flavors in a Mac "VM" so to speak. I haven't used it myself, but I've read that it's pretty nice.

The lack of software problem can easily be solved by installing a copy of Virtual PC. You can get it with any flavor of Windows (95, 98, ME, NT 4, 2000 Professional, XP) and even Linux. Once installed, you'll have access to virtually (no pun intended) any program out there.

Under the truly amazing VPC 6, you can run Linux, Windows, &etc. I had submitted this story a few days ago, but it was rejected -- there's just too much Apple news lately. FWIW:

New for Mac OS X -- Virtual PC 6 from Connectix looks pretty incredible. As Wired says, "You can load DOS, Linux, OS 2, Windows 2000, 95, 98, ME, XP Home and Pro, and of course OS X and Mac OS 9. You can run any combination; RAM is the only limiting factor." Runs under MacOSX and MacOS9, though under MacOSX you can network different instances of VPC together, for filesharing or network programming. VPC 6 also allows you to "undo" -- revert to past sessions, including reboots (you can't do this in the real Windows). Apple and MacNet2 both review it warmly, and
CreativePro says: "I installed Red Hat Linux 7.1 and 7.2 without difficulty, though the drag and drop functionality does not work in Linux." If you're upset because MS Access or MS FrontPage weren't included with Microsoft Office for the Mac, you can run them under VPC. Prices go from $80 to $200. It's also available for windows.

Under the truly amazing VPC 6, you can run Linux, Windows, &etc. I had submitted this story a few days ago, but it was rejected -- there's just too much Apple news lately. FWIW:

New for Mac OS X -- Virtual PC 6 from Connectix looks pretty incredible. As Wired says, "You can load DOS, Linux, OS 2, Windows 2000, 95, 98, ME, XP Home and Pro, and of course OS X and Mac OS 9. You can run any combination; RAM is the only limiting factor." Runs under MacOSX and MacOS9, though under MacOSX you can network different instances of VPC together, for filesharing or network programming. VPC 6 also allows you to "undo" -- revert to past sessions, including reboots (you can't do this in the real Windows). Apple and MacNet2 both review it warmly, and
CreativePro says: "I installed Red Hat Linux 7.1 and 7.2 without difficulty, though the drag and drop functionality does not work in Linux." If you're upset because MS Access or MS FrontPage weren't included with Microsoft Office for the Mac, you can run them under VPC. Prices go from $80 to $200. It's also available for windows.

I like the sound of using a cygwin-based solution even better but if it's possible, I don't know how to do it.

Its the Virtual Game Station, which was an impressive piece of software, imho.
They stopped selling it this June, but are however working on a playstation 2 emulator.
I dont know about XBox-Emulation, but judging from their experience with Console Emulation and Virtual PC, im pretty sure they could do it.

In short, there are plenty of OS/2 users today, although most of them are in Europe. In fact, if Slashdot weren't so US-centric, then the editors would have realized how stupid this "Ask Slashdot" is. Why? Because the biggest OS/2 conference of the year is being held right now in Belgium! The 2nd-biggest was held last month in Toronto.

There are actually two versions of OS/2 available today: the Convenience Pack (CP) from IBM and eComStation from Serenity Systems. eCS is a VAR version of the CP, meaning that it's basically the CP code base, with an enhanced installer, lots of third-party apps built-in, and a bunch of other enhancements. I'm running it right now on a dual Athlon system - the Tyan Tiger MP works great for OS/2, and yes, OS/2 does support SMP systems.

There have been lots of advances in OS/2 over the past year. Project Odin is serious competition for Wine, and can run many Windows apps that Wine doesn't. Plus, Virtual PC for OS/2 was just announced and will be available in a couple months.

Device support has also improved significantly. The only major category of devices that isn't supported is Firewire, but everything else is very thoroughly supported. In fact, video support is phenomenal, thanks to the SciTech Display Doctor video drivers. With these drivers, OS/2 can do what Windows and Linux can't: you can change your video card without reinstalling or reconfiguring any drivers!

I could go on for hours, but I'm going to let other OS/2 users fill in the rest.

You also might want to consider upgrading to eComStation. It's an updated version of OS/2 Warp 4, with lots of big and little improvements.

I think you might also be able to emulate a dos environment inside of Mandrake's LNX4WIN.

Or you could go buy an old machine for a song. Try Goodwill. Go to a garage sale. Bring a $20.

Software availability!?!?! Download GPLed source, type "make".

Xfree running rootless with both Mac OS X native and Classic programs is a beautiful thing that no other OS (not Windows, not Linux) can do.

(By the way, Microsoft now produces software that runs on a Unix system. Who'd have thunk it?)

All that said, (back on topic) more Linux distros for the Mac can only be a good thing, particularly for older machines (as has been said umpteen times).

Yes, it's been supported and updated all this time. If you're interested in the latest version, check out eComStation. It has excellent hardware support, and thanks to Odin and the soon-to-be-releasedVirtual PC for OS/2, it can also run almost every Windows application (in some cases, apps that Wine can't run).

Yep, VirtualPC. There's even an OS X native version in beta right now. Just be sure to get tons of RAM, OS X is a huge memory hog without having to deal with large amounts allocated to an emulated machine.

As for Linux, I'm pretty sure you could run it inside VPC, but I'd just use a native PPC Linux distro. Mandrake 8 works nicely, and even the iBook sound works in the some of the more recent kernel versions.

How well does the iBook execute x86 binaries ?

Virtual PC 4.0

Runs Windows 95/98/ME/2000, Linux, NetBSD, (all x86 off course).

Now with a Max OS X beta out... and it performs reasonably well too (Windows 98SE/Office 2000 are perfectly usable on my iMac 333Mhz G3, and the iBook is a 500Mhz G3).

See, now it's a fair comparison -- considering that the Transmeta chip sort of emulates x86 instructions too :)

I picked up Virtual PC for $77 and installed Windows 2000 on top of it. Then I installed about 30 of my Windows apps -- no compatibility problems seen so far. If you regularly work with huge Photoshop images, you'll probably want to stick with your Windows machine, because the emulation causes some performance penalty. But when working with small images you won't notice it.

Windows does run on the Mac*, and so does XWindows.

*Virtual PC I see they have a new VirtualPC product. For you Intel inclined people.

If the objective is to let users try alternative operating systems, consider using the new Connectix Virtual PC for Windows. It allows you to install another OS (DOS, Linux, BeOS, etc.) under Windows, where you can try it out just as though it were the native OS. Connectix is offering a free trial download that will work thru July 1.

If the objective is to let users try alternative operating systems, consider using the new Connectix Virtual PC for Windows. It allows you to install another OS (DOS, Linux, BeOS, etc.) under Windows, where you can try it out just as though it were the native OS. Connectix is offering a free trial download that will work thru July 1.

until they release a PPC binary I literally cannot use an official client on the machine I use to chat.

Have you tried Bochs (Lesser GPL) or Connectix Virtual PC (proprietary) for running PC programs on your Mac?

I can't stand how Apple keeps on insisting that they have to do everything in house and everything proprietary... instead of using cheap, standard parts

they keep on using proprietary things like
ATA
PCI and AGP
USB
IEEE 1394
PC-100 and 133 RAM
15 pin VGA ports
1/8" audio Jacks
1000/100/10bT or 100/10bT Ethernet on every machine
PCMCIA, S-Video, and VGA outputs on thier laptops

Jeezz.. if they ever got a clue, *maybe* I could upgrade a Mac with a good gaming video card, cheap RAM, cheap IDE hard drives, use my regular PC monitor, use a cheap USB scanner, speakers and networking gear.. much less there's no way to install Windows or Linux on their computers

fuckin Apple.

If only it would run on x86 hardware, Windows users would flock away from the evil empire.

Why? Because the hardware is cheaper? Not. Because the hardware is better? Definitely not, unless you mean better at toasting bread.

Windows users use Windows because it's all they know. It has a majority of the mindshare, so they stick with it regardless of any other factors. Users don't care about chip architecture!

As several other posters pointed out, I can't believe ill-informed opinions like yours are still circulating. Here's what it would really take to lure users away from the Evil Empire:

• A box that is just as cheap, up front, as the commodity Wintel PC - Apple history shows that the masses are clueless about Total Cost of Ownership
• Compatibility with their existing applications - current Wintel owners are not going to ditch their investment in software, and new owners are not going to risk non-interoperability with the majority of other users

For the first point, I'd say check the numbers. For the second, I'd say that standard file formats are becoming more common, and Virtual PC is there as a backup.

Stop! VGS is not Bleem! Repeat after me: The list of supported titles for VGS is NOT short.

Stop. Don't say another word about Bleem. It does not compare to VGS. The geeks at Connectix are freaking masters of emulation.

Stop. Don't say another word about Bleem. It does not compare to VGS. The geeks at Connectix are freaking masters of emulation.

• Why would Sega pledge to port their games to PS2 if they were planning on licensing production of DC consoles to someone else? They'd be poking themselves in the foot.
  
  
• More to the point: Why would anyone else be willing to make a DC console, admittledly "the least profitable part of the whole proposition"? Without perks like high-margin peripherals or games driving the profit model, a third party building consoles (not to mention paying royalties to Sega) would lose money faster than Amazon.
  

With VirtualPC. But I don't run OS/2 on my Macs, I run it on my PCs.
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I could run Connectix Virtual PC with Red Hat I suppose. But that would not preclude me from polluting one of my actual x86 machines with this foulness.

Not going to happen. The basic idea behind Wine (Wine Is Not an Emulator) is that your x86 Linux box can already run windows executables they're compiled to x86 machine language anyway. It just needs a little help with the various operating system/GUI functions. To quote directly from the horse's mouth:

Wine is an implementation of the Windows 3.x and Win32 APIs on top of X and Unix. Think of Wine as a Windows compatibility layer. Wine provides both a development toolkit (Winelib) for porting Windows sources to Unix and a program loader, allowing unmodified Windows 3.1/95/NT binaries to run under Intel Unixes. Wine works on most popular Intel Unixes, including Linux, FreeBSD, and Solaris.

So anyway, you're going to need something that emulates an Intel chip before you can run windows programs on a Power PC under any operating system. I would imagine that your best bet would be to use Virtual PC although this does require the actual installation of a copy of windows.
________________
They're - They are
Their - Belonging to them

Unfortunately, some websites are actively depriving programmers and companies of revenue by emulating more contemporary systems, such as the Playstation or Nintendo 64.

Yeah, like this one, ripping off a poor megacorp.

The problem isn't with emulating some platform, but usually with the fact that people trade copywrited games.

Maybe there should be a limit to the time games stay copywrited (like for books, but shorter). Someone would still be known as the author of the game but you could freely distribute it.

Just a thought...

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Guillaume

No they weren't. In fact Sony had to drop the case and refile do to some errors in the case. I don't think it's come up again and Connectix is going full ahead.
http://www.connectix.com/ company/press_cvgs_jun2900.html

IMHO, this is going to get litigated hard and fast. How effective that will be remains to be seen. Verant has been unwilling or unable to go after other indiviudals, such as the E-Bay Farmers, or Uber You planes-raid people. (for those not in the know, Uber you is a bunch of players who are charging people for the privledge of going on a raid to the one of the various Planes in EQ. There's a little more to it than that, natch, but not much.) Of course, the E-Bay practices haven't actually threatened Verant's cash-flow.

Now, on a related note, I'd love to see this go to court. Verant has admitted that many of their coders were avid MUDers from back in the day, and a lot of the inspiration for EQ came from one particular MUD Brad used to play (sorry, can't remember the name). Most of the MUD's fall under various froms of an "open License", and EQ itself has a lot of throwbacks to those text-based MUDs. More so than UO or AC appear to have, for instance. I'd be very interested to see the source for some of the code from EQ, and from whence it sprang.

Just a thought...

nothing except money. Clone makers (we call them OEMs sometimes, when we want them to be nice to us) usually get a deal on the OS and associated bundled software. Apple's position is that no such deal will be forthcoming. You can make a clone, but you'll pay the full $99 for the OS. If you want to throw AppleWorks in there just to keep up with cupertino, it's another $169(ish). QuickTime Pro? $40. All of a sudden it ain't such a good deal any more...

One hot topic in Linux for PPC today is the Mac on Linux emulator

Actually, I'm a fan of the Linux on Mac emulator as produced by those wizards of reverse engineering at Connectix (the people who brought you virtual Play Station). With this fine family of products I can run winders, Linux and the macOS on one machine and not have to reboot to switch. Try that on yer TRS80!

OS X (ten) IS why I bought the new mac. I've been a mac user for years now, and found that there are very few things PC's do that macs can't. Especially with Virtual PC from Connectix. I just wish I had waited a bit longer (or been more wired with Apple developers) because the new G4 Cube is a beautiful looking thing. Almost *dare I say* as nice as the new VW beetle.

I have a iBook with both a LinuxPPC and a MacOS partition (personally, i love Linux way more, but that's my taste)

Anyways, while booted up in Linux, i run a program called Mac-On-Linux, which will load the MacOS partition, full screen, under X. Then, once you are there, you load up a Mac program called Virtual PC, and *boom*, Windows 98 loads up, under MacOS, under Linux.

The fun just never ends. =^)
-legolas

i've looked at love from both sides now. from win and lose, and still somehow...

ARDI would be happy to license Syn68k to Palm. It requires a little effort to add Dragonball support and to write an ARM back-end, but we already have a fast portable back-end. My guess is we'd have apps running quickly and correctly in under two weeks and blazing in under two months.

Connectix's Speed Doubler also has a fast dynamic recompiling synthetic 680x0. Their target is the PPC, not x86. I don't know how much of their code would be useful for such a project, but they clearly have the experience.

I can't speak for Connectix, but if anyone can introduce me via e-mail to anyone appropriate at Palm, I'll make sure ARDI follows up.

ARDI would be happy to license Syn68k to Palm. It requires a little effort to add Dragonball support and to write an ARM back-end, but we already have a fast portable back-end. My guess is we'd have apps running quickly and correctly in under two weeks and blazing in under two months.

Connectix's Speed Doubler also has a fast dynamic recompiling synthetic 680x0. Their target is the PPC, not x86. I don't know how much of their code would be useful for such a project, but they clearly have the experience.

I can't speak for Connectix, but if anyone can introduce me via e-mail to anyone appropriate at Palm, I'll make sure ARDI follows up.

http://www.connectix.com/co mpany/press_vpc_mar1300.html

The copyright, patent, trademark, etc. laws of the U.S. that protect intellectual property ("IP") all flow from U.S. Constitution:

The Congress shall have the power -- [T]o promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited time to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries. (Article I, Section 8)

Congress and the administrative agencies have implemented the Constitution's directive so that ideas may not be patented/copyright -- the creations that express those ideas are. So, an idea for a book/movie about a lovely woman living beneath her station, rescued by a prince/tycoon after conflict with jealous/greedy competitors for the princes'/tycoons' attention/money cannot be protected under the copyright laws. The movie "Pretty Woman" is an expression of that idea and is copyright, consistent with the constitution. Patents are granted by governments for the expressions, not the ideas.

Copyright violation is not theft; it is not murder; it is not bigany -- it is copyright violation. There is nothing inherently evil about copying a book/movie/song just as there is nothing inherently evil about bigamy of jaywalking. We as a society have decided that our notions of efficiency, and perhaps decency are promoted by creating copyrights and making their violation illegal, just as we build crosswalks and make jaywalking illegal -- however actively enforced. The international community has seen the wisdom of more or less buying into Western notions of IP and have endorsed treaties that protect the same sorts of IP. (The DMCA primarily implements U.S. obligations under two such treaties.)

Congress has not granted authors and inventors "exclusive" use by any means, and as a result, not all copying of a "creative expression" is illegal. For works clearly covered by copyright, the principle of "fair use" is alive and well as witnessed by the Connectix and RIAA vs. Diamond cases. The Legislative History of the DMCA makes it clear that Congress intends to maintain "fair use" while updating the laws regarding copyright and performance to the new technologies. It is premature to assert that the DMCA makes the end of civilization as we know it. There must be cases brought, won or lost and subject to judicial review before we know the impact of the DMCA will be. In addition, historically, the author/owner of the work must assert copyright in order for the copyright laws to apply. I don't see SlashDoters putting the copyright symbol on their posts and I challenge anyone to go to court and prove that damages are warranted as a result of someone copying SlashDot comments.

Congress is going to keep writing laws that give authors and inventors "exclusive use" until the Constitution is changed and they don't have to. They will incorporate Edison cylinders, radio, the web, and holographic implants into the laws as necessary to do their job. In that event, while I applaud Jon Katz' efforts to stimulate debate on the intersection of the law and the web, I believe he could have a greater impact on the shape of things to come by promoting public comment while laws/regulations/rules are in flux and by promoting support for the defense in the DeCSS and Napster prosecutions by telling us where to send contributions.

One should take some comfort from court decisions such as this one that respect the principle of "fair use". Comments to rulemaking bodies, letters to your representatives to Congress, serve to protect the narrow interests of, for example, legitimate users of DeCSS. Will you vote in November?

Keep in mind that the DMCA primarily exists to implement U.S. obligations under international treaties. The U.S. has probably the greatest interest in those treaties because intellectual property ("IP") is a significant contributor to U.S. citizens' higher than average standard of living.

It wasn't that long ago that copyright holders could not protect their IP in foreign contries. H.M.S. Pinafore was a great hit in the U.S. in the 1870's but Gilbert and Sullivan couldn't collect royalties. See here. If it was your ox being gored by a Chinese sweatshop reverse engineering your code and putting your company out of business by selling a copycat product in the U.S. via the internet, I expect you would look more kindly on the treaties and the DMCA that enable you to protect your company's IP and your job.

OK, I've put together a theory on how this rumor ballooned so wildly out of proportion, so read below if you want my idea. ;-)

Slashdot posted an article that mixed up Connectix's plan to bundle Redhat with their emulator Virtual PC (VPC) with Connectix's Macintosh-only Virtual Game Station (VGS). Before an update could be posted to explain the confusion, MOSR's prestigious Ryan Meader saw the post. Using his common tactics for obtaining information for MOSR, he stole the incorrect information and embellished it with his own lies. (If anyone is feeling like I personally don't believe anything MOSR says, you're right. Please check the archives at http://www.mosr.net/ (the site is now defunct, but as I said, check the archives) if you want to see some very good rebuttals of pure crap/stolen news Ryan has posted.) Anyway, a Slashdot reader who read MOSR saw the story, which corroborated the incorrect story he saw earlier (perhaps he had not reloaded Slashdot to see the update yet) and so he submitted it. It was picked up as a story again at Slashdot because it appeared to lend credence to that same story that was (mistakenly) posted the day before.

Sadly people have submitted MOSR topics before to Slashdot. I would recommend that people don't submit MOSR topics, as well as advising Slashdot that they shouldn't pick up stories like that. ;) Hopefully this will be avoided in the future!

Oh yeah, remember that this is merely a theory, although from my point of view it does seem very likely. :)

What really wound up happening, BTW, is that Connectix is selling a version of Virtual PC (the PC emulator for Mac) with RedHat preinstalled.

Connectix Press Release

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