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Sega Confirms Death of Dreamcast
Anonymous Coward writes "Sega of America has confirmed a $99 price drop and liquidation of all Dreamcast hardware. Peter Moore went on to say they will develop Virtua Figher 4 for the PS2, along with porting over some of Sega's older titles. He also listed all the new games that will be coming out in the next nine months. " The market is getting thinner
now. We're down to PS/2, and vaporous offerings from Microsoft and
Nintendo.
Okay, so I'm one of those few that doesn't have a DC but still wants one. I know there's a few more of you out there like me who are going to finally shell out the cash and get one of these DCs cheap. Well, if you're looking for instant gratification, you can actually save a few bucks by buying a DC -before- the price drop from Circuit City.
Why?
Well, they have a nifty price guarantee that if you find the same product for less at another store, or even their own store, you get refunded 110% of the difference. You get the DC now, and assuming that Circuit City is on top of the price drop, you get a cool $55 refund sometime in the next couple weeks.
Anyone know of another place that could better this deal?
if( read(this) ) { you = programmer; }
Nintendo has been slowly dying out over the past few years
On the TV-out console market yes, but the Gameboy Color is probably the most profitable machine (in terms both of direct sales and game sales) out there. The Pokemon craze has shown only mild signs of fading, and the Gameboy games are still the hottest sellers. The Gameboy Advance was delayed simply because there was no reason not to, they simply had no meaningful competition. So don't expect the company to go away any time soon, although they may not put up much of a fight in the large console market.
You don't explain why you think Sony will drop the ball, though.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
Anyway, if the screwups were their downfall, I guess Sony is fucked because their PS2 launch was far worse than the Dreamcast launch, especially in parts of Europe and Japan where there were many hardware glitches that require unit replacements (far more costly than CD replacements, ala the Dreamcast batch of screwy CDs at launch). Here in the USA its months after launch and you still can't find a PS2 for sale in most retail outlets -- they have plenty of games for sale, of course, since there's not many PS2 owners to buy them.
The beginning of the end?? Who knows...seems like the market has always been saturated with really crappy games though.
...All I can say is that my life is pretty strange...
Right now, Sony is essentially the Microsoft of the console business. With so many installed users (on the PlayStation 1) they can pretty much dictate the future of the industry -- or at least this is how they have been acting as of late.
I'm personally quite glad that they pulled a boner on the PS2 launch, and I hope Microsoft (and Nintendo) use the screwup to their advantage to inject some more competition into the console arena.
As others have mentioned, very few titles use Windows CE on the Dreamcast -- its optional. And those that do do not crash (believe me, I've played a good amount of Sega Rally 2, and never once did it crash (Blue Screen or otherwise)
And in terms of the killer-app for game consoles being a system that uses Linux? I am a Linux user and believe some of the Open Source rhetoric (but not all of it), but this just doesn't follow. The technology support for games even on current Linux systems is one of its main drawbacks -- despite the best efforts of the xfree/DRI people and Loki (SDL, etc), Linux as a gaming platform is still lagging several years behind Windows or even MacOS.
The term vaporware is being way overused these days on Slashdot. Unless there's no evidence of development progess and/or the ship date is repeatedly pushed back, it's not vaporware! Microsoft unveiled the plans for the X-Box less than one year ago and slated it for release as third or fourth quarter this year. MS has been showing what it's done so far and I believe that developers already have SDKs. So it's not vaporware, unless they slip the shipdate by several months or more.
How is this confirmed? When did Sega stop releasing official releases on their web site? When will people stop believing a site that gets more money by posting crap like this? (More rumots of this, more hits, and more ad $)
I don't know what the deal is with a huge rush of videogame-related posts on a chiefly tech site... But Taco's experitise, as well as that of many eager posters, has really shown its limits as of late.
First off, for those who post about the DC's failure due to WinCE, please get a clue. For starters, the DC was not a windows box. It was a custom Motorola processor (like every other Sega system) with its graphics subsystem being the NEC Power-VR chipset--neither of which have much relation to PC hardware whatsoever. It is true that the DC *ran* WinCE, however it was only a secondary operating system *available*. It only ran when the game was designed to use it--which many did not. Moreover, there was also a standard Sega programming enviroment available for development (C++-based) as well as the DC version of machine code. By no means was the DC a Windows-based machine. The functionality was only there to offer developers a more familar way to create games.
On top of all this anti-MS fever creating misrepresentation, it seems odd that so many people, including Taco himself are calling the Xbox vapor-ware. Perhaps this was the care 2 months ago, but the Xbox has officially come out of the woodwork as a real offering by this year. The official press releases have been made, the final box (basically) and controller(s) were shown at the CES show a few weeks ago, and all real gaming mags/sites have started true coverage. There is a current listing of over 20 big-name release games--two of which were on display at the CES--as well as a list of almost every name publisher signed up to develop for the Xbox. At any rate, it is hardly vaperous--in fact, it's probably less so that the pathetic showing of the PS2 on the market right now
If Slashdot is gonna go hog-wild on video game stories, they should at least try to read a gaming site (videogames.com or dailyradar.com are good ones) or pick up a copy of EGM every once and a while.
-Jayde
What's a sig?
While there's always a myriad of other factors involved, the majority of successful systems have always had easy to use, functional control devices (the N64 being the exception), and the ones that failed... did not.
Look:
Atari 2600- used a really simple joystick. Still works even today- one button, one directional control. Sold like hotcakes.
Sega MS- better than the Nintendo, but....
Nintendo- had a "select" button on the control pad, and better marketing. Master System dies.
The Genesis had a robust, easy to use control pad, as did the Super Nintendo. [and the TG16]. 3DO couldn't decide which one it wanted to rip off and went for both, cross breeding incompatible designs... and failing.
The Atari Jaguar has the worst controller in the known universe- down it went.
The Playstation added a pair of shoulder buttons to the classic SNES design and handles, the biggest innovation since ever- guranteed success.
The N64 has a wackass control pad that never makes full use of itself, and is needlessly fragile. All hail analogue and everything, but the only things keeping this platform up are Goldeneye and the fact that Nintendo is practicly guranteed "kid safe".
The CDi had a stupid control pad [looks like a TV remote], the Atari 5200 had a goofy control interface... and the Dreamcast. Most of the bitching I've heard about the DC isn't about games or price or availability... it's about that silly ass control pad.
I hated the "It's Thinking" bit. Worst line since Jaguar's "Do the Math." I think it hurt the Dreamcast rather than helped it. Why couldn't they have just stuck with "SEGA!!"?
Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh
Sorry! Under current copyright protection, Sega owns the copyright to whatever they make for 50 years from the time it's copyright was set. So, it's up to Sega to say if you can or can't.... and I still can't do emulation of the SMS, let alone Dreamcast!
icanneverbereached@sogoaway.com aint my address.
Well, if you're dying to get a console that's a pretty color, then go with the N64. ;) Otherwise, the Dreamcast has better graphics (especially if you get an S-Video or VGA output cable for it), better sound, and some great games out and on the way. The N64 has a couple Zelda games, and those alone make the N64 worth buying, but I own both consoles and have been more impressed with the Dreamcast's games.
Naked.
... and of course NO game developers ever make any money!
Square is a TINY corporation, and Capcom too...
Console game developing/production = very profitable.
Console developing/production = COSTS A LOT, SELLS AT A LOSS
-- Dr. Eldarion --
Sega had a Dreamcast release that was 2-3 times more successful than Sony's PS2 release. The systems were plentiful and only a handful of the games were flawed. The system is reasonable in cost, and when it does break, Sega supports it with 2-3 week repair and shipment warranty service. I know people who sent PS2s back in November and still don't have their system back. Sega is a great company, with a great product. The only problem is when people like you wouldn't even give the thing a chance. That's why they're going out of business. Hogarth
My Dreamcast has been on nearly 24x7 since Thanksgiving 1999. No problems whatsoever. Also, I live in NYC and it was delivered to my door within an hour of when I bought it.
Jeez, man! Get kicked around the playground a bit much as a child?
Loosen up, hit the mall, watch some pr0n, enjoy our corrupt Capitalistic western society. Less stressful that way.
Oh, and stop calling me trying to sell me "Proletariat Trolls Monthly" subscriptions.
--Just Another Pimp A$$ Perl Hacker
El riesgo vive siempre!
Couple of point. 1) Square and EA are seperate companies. EA just markets some of their software in the US.
2) I own a Dreamcast and PS2 and NFL 2K1 is a much better game - further I would say the graphics are pretty close. Given the PS2 has 10 times the horsepower, I expected more.
3) 989 sports is owned by Sony. Gameday does not touch either frachinse. - Just my opinion.
Good points!
For the games, of course. Anyone who suggest that Sega has failed to deliver on the promise of "cool games" with what's currently available is patently delusional (Especially in comparison to the PS2's present lineup... yeesh).
Referring to this as the "Death of the Dreamcast" is also needless sensationalism. While it may be the death knell, it's not dead yet; Sega is simply ceasing to manufacture consoles. Hold on for a second... that isn't quite as bad as it sounds. Sega's support of the Dreamcast via software will continue via the (reported) 100 games still in the development pipeline, and remains in negotiation with other manufacturers to license the Dreamcast hardware; so DC-compatible DVD-players and the like could soon make an appearance (and there's still that X-Box rumor).
This has happened in the past; in the US, manufacture of Genesis systems from late '95 and on was done by Majesco sales, JVC offered the X'Eye, an integrated Genesis/SegaCD unit, and in Japan Hitachi produced Video CD player capable of playing Saturn games.
Yeah, it's not gonna live on forever; no console does. No, it's probably not going to outlast the PS2; this shouldn't really suprise anyone. Will Sega continue to support the console with software as long as it is reasonably profitable? Yes. Will any more consoles capable of running DC software be produced? Most likely. So we have both consoles and software, for a while at least; throwing the Dreamcast on the cart now is a bit premature.
On the Nintendo side, however, things are more interesting. The Game Boy Advance is certainly *not* just a rumor - in fact, IIRC, it's being released March 1. Certainly, I know a lot of developers are working on GBA titles. GBA sounds like great fun to develop for *and* to play on, and where you mention convergence between X-Box and PC, perhaps we'll see convergence between GBA and PalmPilot? ;)
After that, there's the GameCube. Now, remember that the N64 was a late entry. The GameCube is too. But despite late entry the N64 still sold a respectable number of games. Nintendo deal with this differently than Sony - Sony throw as many games at players as possible, in the belief that some of them will be popular. [If you throw enough shit, some will stick.] Nintendo, on the other hand, has very few games, but the average quality is far higher. They've done OK with this model on N64, so it remains to be seen how they do on GameCube.
This ain't over. Not by a long stretch. Sega has been the outsider since 1995, and it's just taken a long time to die. But MS, Sony and Nintendo still have some interesting fights ahead.
I didn't pay for my operating system either
Actually, there is little truth to this statement. Nintendo is still selling well in IT's market, which is different from the market for PS2 and DC. Nintendo has never killed a machine before the natural end of it's product cycle, and usually supports it well into it's twilight years. (I'm not counting Virtual Boy ... which was a collosal failure.)
When X-Box launches, Gameboy Advance (NOT a rumor, I might add, it's well past confirmed) should launch (June-ish), and Gamecube either at Christmas, or Q1 2002.
Now then, Microsoft has NEVER made a date for a major release, and there's little reason to suspect that X-Box will break the trend. Microsoft themselves have even suggested that Christmas might be more realistic, meaning GBA will beat it to market, and Gamecube should launch at approximately the same time.
Unfortunately, what probably will happen is that Sony will drop the ball this year. Microsoft will release the X-box to a small audience and start out slow. The X-box and PS2 will be in competition for about a year, maybe 18 months, with Microsoft gaining ground as Sony loses ground.
This is mostly correct. Sony's already pissing off third parties by not having enough installed base, and they are eager to see X-Box succeed. The rest of the paragraph is a bit wrong though. X-Box will not be priced lower ... I see it having price parity with PS2. As for PC integration ... that's a pipe dream. MS KNOWS that X-Box needs to be a console, not a PC, and is pushing down that road. Ask any developer ... X-Box is about games, and games only.
Nintendo and Microsoft will likely end up the major players unless Sony pulls it's head out of it's ass, but just like the last "war," Nintendo will probably end up grabbing the younger end of the market, and Microsoft will embrace the older generation.
And in case anyone wonders about my perceptions, I worked in the game industry for a while, and have studied it thoroughly. There is always a cycle to these things, and sometimes the players make them happen while denying that they will fall into the trap.
At $99/ea. you'd do well to buy them both. Stuff I've got on the 64 includes Super Mario64, Super Mario Karts, both Zeldas, Donkey Kong 64, and a couple of other misc. games.
My Dreamcast games include Sonic Adventure, Looney Tunes Racing, MLB2K1, and Tomb Raider.
I can't vouch for the "quality" of FPS games because they don't interest me. But for simple action games that require puzzle-solving skills, I like the games on both N64 and Dreamcast.
OK then, how about
'Cuz until Slasdot reports it, it ain't history'
Also check out Tony Hawks Pro Skater 1 & 2, along with Shenmue.
Consoles will always be competing with PC technology, so even if Sony ends up dominating, they're going to have to keep up with new trends in video cards and PC games. There can never really be a true "gaming" monopoly. -Gabe
We're not going to get anywhere as long as people hold that attitude. Don't forget the Indrema! Specs of the X-Box, runs on Linux.
------
Dreamcast in, out, gone. Weird. Almost first post.
- - I'm Johnny Badnote, arch-fiend, villain, slime. The public didn't like my songs and so I turned to crime. - -
Does this mean DC Emulation will be legal?
Get sega to do dev for Indrema's box.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
Isn't it sad that, in our "enlightened" day and age, we're still objectifying and degrading women in order to sell products?
Judging from your slashdot username and the text of your comment, I would have to guess that to you, everything is wrong. Sex sells. Get over it. If we were a truly enlightened species it wouldn't matter but it does.
When 1 company, whichever it is, takes over the hardware market for consoles, it won't be so bad. Then you just pull a Compaq, reverse engineer the whole chuckwagon, and all of the developers will be able to concentrate all of their resources on one software platform (without the fear of the platform being unpopular)--meanwhile the hardware competition ensures that the consumers won't get raped.
Game: Player 'Donald J Trump' now has AI skill level 'experimental'.
> Indrema console. I don't know how well they'll do at getting actual games made for their platform,
Well, giving away the SDK for free is a good start.
They still have to "approve" your game though.
Most developers are doing PS2 (since they have PSX experience) or XBox (due to it being very similiar to PC's)
ROM carts are superior to CDs. They chose those for N64 because they have quick access and don't need to be loaded into memory each time you use it.
The other makers chose CDs for lower manufacturing costs (which they didn't pass on to YOU).
N64 failed because it was over a year late compared to the PS and Saturn.
Maybe you think all the ROMs in your PC is aging tech too now?
---
Sometimes, I think about how much money and time goes into advertising that is simply meant to cancel out the effects of a rival's advertising; I think about how much the cost of goods is inflated by these costs, and I get annoyed.
for a truly great gamesystem that was killed before it's time.
I'm picking up an extra spare. You guys clamoring over PS2 pictures? I'll be at home playing PSO. You guys talking about how great XBOX will be? I'll be at home playing Shenmue. You guys wishing you had a Gamecube right now? I'll be at home playing JGR. Long live Dreamcast! Viva Sega!
-------------------------------------------------
Perhaps it will have some competition in the form of mobile phones that can run downloadable games? The first such phones have just gone on sale in Japan.
dude, while i agree that citing IGN as a source is rather strange, the news has been everywhere. including sega's site.
A Sega representative in San Francisco said plans for the device are "huge and long term."
Sega executives in Japan said they would continue developing Dreamcast.
1/23/2001
We all know that the primary reason the Dreamcast died so quickly is because they decided on the worst possible OS for it: WinCE. I mean, how could they have expected anything but total failure when you have a console that BSOD's every 15 minutes? A bad choice by Sega, and the results prove it.
You're right. CE did hurt the system, but not because it gave the Dreamcast nothing but poor games. The vast majority of DC games didn't use the CE OS. It hurt them because of all the people like you who heard "Windows" and instantly began screaming/whining about how terrible the system was.
Dreamcast was Thinking. You weren't.
Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh
Of course, I don't want to give Gates or Sony all of my money... but damn. Have you played any Sony titles recently? Man they suck. Except for Metal Gear. All of that Code Veronica stuff is so impossible to navigate it is frustrating, and it all looks like ass.
Thanks!
+5:offtopic,but anti-American
As previously reported, what's going to happen to the broadband adapter now that they're clearing out inventory? Looking at the Sega store listing, it is classified as backordered. Will they be filling those orders? Will it be available somewhere else (other than ebay)?
Actually, Zelda 4 was for the GameBoy. Zelda 5 and Zelda 6 are for the N64. Either way, the Zelda series is definitely one of Nintendo's key franchises.
GameBoy Advance is scheduled for a Japanese release in March, IIRC, with the American release to follow this summer. Nintendo has a suprisingly large list of launch titles too.
"I think so, Brain, but 'instant karma' always gets so lumpy." - Pinky
"Decepticons FOREVER!!!" - Ravage
well, which ones aren't pre-doomed? I mean how well is the PS2 doing when you can't get one? If I want to go that route, I'll order a Titanium PowerBoook from Apple
Eric Aitala
www.f1m.com
This press release off Sega's site says pretty much the same thing as the ign article, but it's straight from the horse's mouth.
Their marketing really sucked! Just because you spend a lot of money doesn't mean you did an excellent job. The NBA's Washington Wizards have one of the highest payrolls in the league, yet they are one of the worst teams. "It's thinking." .......??? I can still hear the woman's voice saying it. I personally think that is a horrible slogan. With the console market today you need a slogan that will reach out and grab you, not some lady quietly saying that the system is an intellectual...I don't care how seductive she sounds.
You also cannot actually think that the Dreamcast has a weak software lineup...can you? They launched with a decent amount of games, all of which were quality.
-Sonic
-NFL2k
-Soul Calibur (amazing)
-Crazy Taxi
Now they have some other awesome games...
-Quake III (mouse, keyboard, and internet support)
-Shenmue
-Jet Grind Radio
-NFL2k1, NBA2k1
The list goes on.
You have to admit that the DC has at least a good software lineup. Their marketing was just passive and weak.
http://www.skwull.com Learn it. Live it. Love it.
slow ass slashdot. this story is obsolete by the time it got posted. check out this eet story about continued dreamcast availability(sort of): http://eet.com/story/OEG20010130S0076
Even when it was brand new, the Dreamcast sold for less than $300. Its not like the cost of a car or such.
There's more than enough games available for it to make it worth the $300 purchase: Space Channel 5, Virtua Tennis, Rayman 2, MDK 2, Sonic Adventure 1 (and 2), Shenmue (though I didn't care for it much myself, plenty of other people seem to like it), NFL2K1, NBA2K1, Soul Reaver, Soul Calibur, Dead or Alive 2, Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2, etc, etc, etc (there are many many more good games).
The simple fact is, consoles die. They are built to become obsolete eventually. This is not Dreamcast specific. Even if Sega kept making hardware, they'd most likely be pimping a 'Dreamcast 2' next year, and you'd still have the problem of the original Dreamcast support being dropped.
This kind of stuff (blatant lying with no consequences) happens all the time in business and politics. When are we going to demand people start telling the truth?
Yeah, you're right. I was thinking Genesis for a moment there. Hitachi is what I meant--and the spirit is the same after all. Not PC-based stuff. :-)
What's a sig?
This is a bad thing.
The Playstation 2 has been a huge disapointment in Japan, and its owners in the US waiting for that killer bunch of post-launch games may be in for a rude awakening. Microsoft seems to be leading the battle, with the almost unbelievable X-Box (look for either the specs to go down or the price up by the time it is released.) Nintendo's Gamecube will have the same weakness of it's predcessor, the lack of third party developers. Nintendo has very little reason to release it at all, since it will likely lose money like Sega, and it will continue to ride high as long as the Pokemon cash cow, making about half as much in merchandising, games, TV shows, etc as the entire Console gaming industry.
Well, my point is that the way we play console games is gonna change. They will continue to get technically better and better, but will the quality also improve? I've noticed a very large lack of it in the 32/64-bit generation, and its no surprise that many choose to play 16-bit emulators while thier newer systems gather dust. The Gaming industry seems stuck in its conventions (you know the industry is in trouble if the most innovative title is a skateboarding game, a genre dating back to the 1980s), and due to the closed nature of console gaming, it is impossible that a small-developer wakeup call will spur console gaming developers to greater heights. (As Counter-strike and Serious Sam did for the PC games industry.)
Striking parallels are emerging between the console games industry and the 1950s comics publishers. The big bullies of the industry Marvel and DC (Nintendo and Sony, for the sake of analogy) forced out their innovative rival EC (Sega) by several means. Marvel and DC continued to turn out assembly line comics in a few profitable genres (as consoles now harbor mostly RPGs, Sports, Fighting, Driving and Third-Person action, and shunning genres like Strategy, Flight-Sim, Simulations, First Person Shooters, Adventure, and almost any exciting hybrid of genres.) Eventually, Marvel and DC faded away into near bankruptcy, making money mostly off of liscensing of characters like Batman, Spider-Man and Superman (think Pokemon, Tomb Raider, and Final Fantasy).
Well, it looks like things are may be pretty grim for console gaming, and Sony and Microsoft seem to act like they are pillaging a small village rather than moving into an industry. At least the capital of console gaming will stay in Redmond.
Given a reasonably level playing field, who would win a fight between a bear and a shark?
Perhaps your problem is with the proprietary nature of the PS/2. PS/2 keyboards, anyone?
-bugg
2) Controllers are readily available for the PS2. Unfortunately, that's a slightly less important device than the console itself. I've personally had no problems getting all the accessories I wanted.
3) Most consoles have minor problems, especially when first produced. Some PS1's had to be turned over to operate correctly, as well as having some overheating problems (I don't know about the PS2, I'm sure others know more about its minor quirks). The first batch of Dreamcast games had a few problems, but the problems were quickly solved.
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Thank you. I don't understand why so many news sites just enjoy linking to each other and not the source. It introduces things into the story that aren't true.
Nowhere in Sega's actual announcement does it say that they are "liquidating" the Dreamcast. Instead it says they will continue to sell the console until the end of this year at the new price of $100.
I buy an N64 to play F1 games... Ubisoft et al. don't release them here in the US.
I buy a DC to play F1 games... Sega dumps the system, then Ubisoft et al. don't release the games here.
Perhaps I should buy a PS2, PC, or Xbox so it'll go off the market too?
Anyone want to make a contribution so I can put their least favorite gaming platform out of business?
BLEH
Eric Aitala
www.f1m.com
Exactly. They're like Disney, but without the evil.
"I think so, Brain, but 'instant karma' always gets so lumpy." - Pinky
"Decepticons FOREVER!!!" - Ravage
For instance, I have a ps1 w/ 30+ games right now, do I like any of them? no? I have an n64 w/ 3 games, do i absolutely love all of them? Yes. I would play Zelda, Mario Kart, and StarFox every day if I had the time.
You talk about wanting to get rid of Sony because they've got lots of bad games compared to Nintendo and you think they'll disappear. Yet the above quote shows you've given a heck of a lot more money to Sony than Nintendo. So if Sony's marketing is good enough to make you buy lots of games you don't like, they'll be financially sound and survive just fine, I think.
I also disagree. Nintendo's audience is kids (like 2years old to like 15yo). Sony's audience is to the older teenagers and adults. Considering most kids want (and get) a console, I suspect Nintendo will last an extremely long time.
Another point was said before, which is the franchise games they have (can't wait to play metroid again!!!).
Now that the N-Cube is going CD instead of cartridge, the price for games will drop.
Nintendo may never be 'top' system over Sony and Microsoft (Microsoft seems to be catering to the older audience, also), but they will always be there...
--
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Thanks, guys. Good info to chew on!
"shop smart:shop s-mart" ash
Sega's OS is called Dragon. It's not bad, from what I read.
"My God, this must be a truly remarkable corn chip, to be so widely and confidently touted."
Â,
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
I read a lot on Nintendo and let me tell you this: it's far from dying out.
Does it have a huge share of the console market? Nope, Sony does. But that doesn't mean it's dying. First of all, Nintendo has A LOT (read: billions) in the bank, and it's still turning in a profit quarter after quarter. Why? Because of the GameBoy. This thing has probably saved the company.
The way I see things, the real fight is going to be between Sony and MS. Nintendo "seems" left out because it's games usually don't look or feel like PS or MS games. (In my opinion, they feel a lot better, but that's another debate entirely). People think they're made for kids. In many regards, they are, but they're still amazingly well designed and enjoyable.
And things can only get better with the GameCube. But I am sad to se Sega go. At least, it seems the games will live on. And if Sega only develops for PS2, then that's going to be a huge advantage for Sony.
Anyway, that's just how I see things...
I do have to argue with the thought of Nintendo dieing off. For game development, the PS2 is very difficult to develop for and you have to jump thru a ton of hoops to get any type of decent framerate with alot of polygons on the screen.
The Gamecube on the other hand is very easy to develop for and, according to more than 1 development group, very easily pumps out more polygones per second than you can do on the PS2, without doing an tweaking or pushing of the hardware.
Upon looking at the XBox specs it appears to be something that can blow the Gamecube and the PS2 away but what most people do not realize are some of it's bottlenecks that brings is speed and power down to the Gamecube level, and sometimes below. These bottlenecks mostly reside around the way it works with memory. What is interesting is that Nintendo has always been careful with it's numbers and always predicts numbers low. All the other consoles predict numbers that are super high but don't take into account that polygons need textures and many other things that can bring the number down drasticly. The Gamecube is comparable to the XBox right now, in specs, without the hardware being pushed. Nintendo's polygon count is with full texturing with 8 filters on the texture (all in hardare which is a first) and the sound area is how many voices can be done in 3D. Take a voice out of 3D and your number is much higher and learn the details of the hardware and you can push the Gamecube farther than the XBox.
Another fact is that the XBox will be running a modified version of Windows 2000. Not a special OS for the console, but a modified Windows OS. It's display will use DirectX so development for the XBox can be quick, but pushing the hardware will be difficult.
In short, the PS2 can't even stack up against the XBox nor the Gamecube, no matter which way you cut it for what things are allowed. What will kill another company will be bad decision making. Nintendo did it awhile back when they came out with the Virtual Boy, which was a flop, and resulted in them being one of the console developers to come out last in the hardware line.
If this is slowly dying, then what do you consider a success?
Unfortunately, what probably will happen is that Sony will drop the ball this year.
Sony's already dropped the ball this year. They released an expensive console with supplies so limited that you have to pre-order a system. Buying figures in Japan show that most people bought it as a casual gaming system and are using it more for the DVD capabilities. They managed to drive the Dreamcast off by just being the successor to the Playstation, but the way they've rushed it out the door they've guaranteed that it will be extremely difficult to make money off selling games for the PS2. That will drive developers to other platforms, and gamers will either migrate to another platform or give up and just play PC games.
The Xbox might attract its share of the market, but I think Nintendo will be able to compete against them. Nintendo's been in the console market for a good long time, has good brand recognition despite mistakes made with the N64, and gamers playing a Nintendo wouldn't be constantly reminded by the name on the console that they could be playing PC games instead of buying more console games. ;)
Naked.
hmph. it at least takes two hands. add to your list pilotwings, blast corps, waverace, mystical ninja, perfect dark, banjo-kazooie, mario 64
Why so pesimistic? To tell the truth, I still have my doubts about Microsoft's X-box. It's just a better dreamcast/playstation with pc-hardware, capable of playing DVDs and many other things. I'm afraid that it, just like the PS2, will be way too expensive. Nintendo usually keep console prices around 250 bucks for new consoles, and since it won't play DVDs or ship with a modem, it'll probably be true for the GameCube as well.
Nintendo survied the N64, even though it sucked in many ways. A storage limit on 200 MB (or something like that) for games was a bad thing, and still they managed to make profit. Games like Mario and Zelda sold very well. Zelda4 is probably one of the fastest selling games for consoles, hell, my brother bought a N64 just to play Zelda :)
And as for the GameBoy Advance, it isn't just a rumor. The specs was released long time ago, and the little machine being sold in Japan right now, if I'm not mistaken. In fact, I think Nintendo could survive by selling the Game Boys alone. It's an incredible machine and money-maker (Pokemón gold is the most selling game in the states right now, I've been told).
No, it's a $50 price drop TO $99.
Had me looking all over the web for a $50 Dreamcast, too. :-p
Good grief, do moderators ever stop to think? This is blatantly stupid stuff which qualifies as flamebait, if anything. But since it disses Word, it must be good, right?
- Creating a new consoles is like creating a new computer. Creating an aircraft is a different league. Sending somebody to the moon is a whole nother univers
- Having a monopoly means you do not invest as much as you would if you were under competitive pressure. After all, there's nobody to best you
- PC technology is not exactly designed for running word. All the 3D cards, and all the newer chip architectures were created with multimedia and game users in mind
- If there's a monopoly, there can be no competition. Just by definition. The game companies just compete with each other - no pressure on the console manufacturer. In fact, the console manufacture can squeeze the game companies for higher license fees.
- Consoles do not compete with thin client PC's. They compete with settop boxes. Which are quite a bit thicker than a thin client. And a different idea...
Amazingly enough, consoles are sold at loss nowadays, so the poster got one fact straight (Out of 6). I guess that wins you an 'informative' on slashdot...A monopoly is _never_ good for the consumer, BTW. Just try reading an economics book from time to time...
Informative! Sheesh!
From playing with a PSX2 at a friend's, and owning a Dreamcast I can say the PSX2 does have better graphics. One of the psudo-wargames the PSX2 has (real time) rendered people as detailed as the Dreamcast fighting games, but rather then at most 4 at ones (like DOA2) it had twenty, thirty, 100 or so of them swarming around.
As far as gameplay goes, nothing grabbed me as a must own game like, say, Soul Calibur was for me on the Dreamcast (they have DOA2 Hardcore, which is a bit better then DOA2 on the DC, but not a lot).
I assume the game play will get better: if nothing else Sega will make good PSX2 games :-)
I assume the graphics will get better as well as the thing gets pushed.
he took the red pill...
Please give your mod points to others, Im at the cap. They will appreciate it more
look at this list of games to be released this year http://dreamcast.ign.com/news/30855.html]http://dr eamcast.ign.com/news/30855.html
that doesn;t include the recently released PSO. There hasn't been this good of a crop of games in one year since the heyday of the SNES.
crazy taxi 2, jet grind radio 2, sonic adventure 2, shenmue 2, nba2k2, nfl2k2, nhl2k2, 18 wheeler. I think sega's focus on the arcade over the last few years has solidly increased their level at game design, these will be some of the most fun games ever made.
Sega's problem has always been with their hardware, their games were often nearly infallible, but their hardware was substandard. Sega should be able to jump into the game as a 3rd party title and be at the level of the capcoms/konamis/activisions instantly.
Now we just need hardware that ISN'T the PS2 to run it on.
Ok, maybe I didn't word my post quite right. I never said PS2 was better than DC. I just said that it was hyped. In my opinion the DC is by far a better console, but I don't control the gaming industry, so I have to sit back and watch the DC get eaten by the PS2 hype-monster.
The DC console as we now know it is dead, BUT the chipset will live on in set-top boxes and other stuff like that.
I have to disagree with you, though when you say that the XBox is going to eliminate all competition. Nintendo will not go away, they won't be beaten. Look at the N64, it sucks, but it was still a successful system because of games like Pokemon Stadium and Zelda. The GameCube is gonna do well, I think.
Anyway...I just wanted to make sure you knew that I wasn't saying that the PS2 was a quality system.
http://www.skwull.com Learn it. Live it. Love it.
I think you and lots of other people out there are REALLY underestimating Nintendo. The fact is they sold more software than anyother video game company. Think pokemon and zelda. Nintendo does just create games, they create phenomenon. Now you take great games, and attach it to fast hardware (read GameCube) the fact is they are still major players. You haven't heard as much hype as X-box mainly because Nintendo has not decided to exaggerate the capabilities of its hardware. All those numbers microsoft like to spout out about rendering polygons is w/o any textures or light sources. GameCube has built all that in so that things are rendered through once with 8 textures per pixel and 4 or 8 light sources (i can't remember but there is lots of info on the GameCube sectoin at IGN).
Preliminary benchmarks show GameCube toasting PS2, and keeping up with and sometimes eXceeding X-Box performance hype. So we have great games, huge franchise, fast hardware. Oh and its goign to cost about half as much as PS2, and X-Box.
Look at some of the games listed in the article as coming to the PS2 later this year:
Virtua Fighter 4 (Fall)
Space Channel 5 (Later?)
And After April:
Crazy Taxi
18 Wheel American Pro Trucker
Zombie Revenge
Wow! So, around the time of the XBox launch, I'll be able to play Crazy Taxi and Virtua Fighter 4, as well at GT3 and ZOE on the PS2?
The only question is how soon those games might be ported to the XBox (I assume "platform agnostic" means they'll develop almost any game for any system). But if they are on the PS2 first, during the XBox launch, it could really increase support for the PS2.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
How did this get moderated as insightful? It is clearly a troll.
because most moderators are idiots of course.
or, the more cynical view is that he or his troll friends have so many accounts that they can mod up their own posts.
In Soviet Russia...michael would be rotting in Siberia!
Why would you have bought a DC when you knew that the messiah of consoles was coming? The second coming of the PS2.
Sure, the DC had a year head start, but people still knew that the PS2 was coming, and that it would forever change the landscape of video games. We all drooled at screenshots of Madden 2001 and other amazing looking games while Sega was actually churning out amazing game after amazing game.
Why buy a Sega, though? When playstation 2 comes out, DC will be outdated.
Well, PS2 came out, and the DC has a better software library and still has some great games in development, but it's too late. Sega has already been crushed by Sony's hype monster. Retailers and developers are scared of DC because it's a sinking ship. Why try to rescue it when you can just develop and sell games for PS2 and prepare for the GameCube and XBox?
I'm just hoping that MSFT incorperates the DC chipset into the XBox. I heard rumors that it's gonna happen. I've heard we're gonna find out in late march.
http://www.skwull.com Learn it. Live it. Love it.
Hey interiot,
9 21 9&cid=101
If I recall, you doubted me when I posted that the "rumors" about the demise of Dreamcast were true.
So, um, I hate to say it, but well: I TOLD YOU SO.
See:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=01/01/23/21
LOL. LOL. LOL.
LOL
Isn't that what I did with the whole "asleep at the wheel" part?
As a side note: -1, Overrated is for cowards. If you're going to mod me down, at least have the conviction to explain *why* by picking something more appropriate. Or did I hurt the little Taco fans' egos?
Mod all you want, I'll post more.
Raptor
Raptor
"Procrastination is great. It gives me a lot more time to do things that I'm never going to do."
Hope these help:
Dreamcast programming crap-- http://mc.pp.se/dc/
Links and lots of cool stuff like mp3 player and emulators and such (and Quake 1!)-- http://www.dcemulation.com/
NetBsd has a couple of pages too, looks cool, haven't tried it yet. And I just got one of these bastards for christmas.
Anyone else notice how sega is a bunch of cocks when it comes to thier customers. Remember how they just cut the Genesis, and had half assed support for the 32x and SegaCD after like 6 months. And they had they jump on the playstation with the saturn. And the ps2 with the dreamcast. Bastard cocks. Oh well.
NetBSD will be ported to it in earnest :-)
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
Dreamcast built up a more impressive library in a year and a half than the N64 did in five years. Sega getting out of hardware is a good thing. Now their top-notch software development teams will be able to play to a much larger audience, and they won't be tied to the money-losing console half of the business.
It took them awhile, but Sega finally got it right. Let other companies eat the loss, you just sit back and rake in the profits.
I don't look at the Dreamcast as a failure. In my eyes, it's the most successful console to be released in a long time. The first console with a VGA adaptor, the first console to come with a modem, the first console with Ethernet connectivity. And the games were actually fun.
In a market that's driven primarily by hype, thank you, Sega, for daring to be different.
And long live the Dreamcast.
Game console? Huh. Here I thought PS/2 was created just to piss me off, by making me reboot every time I kicked my mouse cable out.
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"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Just because Sega stopped production, doesnt mean it's dead. Think it out. The technology was liscenced, the software is understood and replicable, the hardware itself is not so much of a mystery. I can still play Atari games, so it's not a big deal.
Often wrong but never in doubt.
I am Jack9.
Often wrong but never in doubt.
I am Jack9.
Everyone knows me.
The Dreamcast has a far wider selection of games. Don't get me wrong, the N64 has some great games, but they tend to fall into 4 genres: 3D platform titles (Mario64, Banjo-Kazooie), Kart Racers (Mario Kart, Diddy Kong Racing), action-RPGs (the two Zelda games, Gauntlet Legends (though its mostly action)) and FPSes (Goldeneye, Perfect Dark..which many people seem to love, but being a PC FPS player, I can't seem to get into these). .
The N64 doesn't have a very extensive library of games. And of the games that are available, 99% of the ones that are worth playing are either from Nintendo themselves or Rare, which contributes to the lack of game diversity.
Dreamcast, on the other hand, has FPSes (Quake3, including mouse/keyboard support), platform games (Rayman 2, Sonic Adventures), rhythm dancing games (Space Channel 5, Dance Dance Revolution), action-RPGs (Soul Reaver), traditional console-RPGs (Grandia 2, Skies of Arcadia), plenty of fighting games (Soul Calibur, Dead or Alive, VF3), and hard-to-categorize games like Shenmue.
The short version of my long-winded post is this:
Get an N64 if you love Nintendo (or Rare's)games. The selection is not large, but the games available are almost all of the highest quality.
Get a Dreamcast if you want diversity.
Get both if you can afford it.
I don't mean for this to sound like a flame.. but dude, you couldn't be more wrong about Nintendo.
The GameBoy is the most successful selling console in history. There are nearly 100 MILLION gameboy consoles out there. Nintendo is one of the top half dozen most successful and profitable companies in Japan (2 years ago they were THE most successful.) Who knows about the gamecube, but the nintedo owned franchises (mario, zelda, pokemon) are undeniable juggernauts and you simply can't discount this when talking about the gamecube's potential success. I am POSITIVE that I'll be buying a gamecube to get the next mario and zelda games.. are you telling me you won't be? Also, don't underestimate the potential connection and cross-marketing between the gamecube and GBA.
Nintedo isn't going ANYWHERE. The only true "unknown" commodity in the market is the XBox. Sure they have a chance, a good one because of their development environment, but I think it's hard to make a case that either of the other two big players are going to positively fail - considering Nintendo's brands, and Sony's momentum.
paulb
Paul Bettner
Game Developer et al
No, someone is impersonating me.
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
I don't know what you people are talking about. Nintendo is kicking the absolute living crap out of everyone else. They have money in the bank, and *no debt*. Look at the numbers for 2000:
http://ign64.ign.com/news/30185.html
Yeah, they're on hard times. Boy, that console monopoly really hurt them. The PSX and PSXII are driving them into the hole.
WhatEVER.
Why don't you people pay attention to some hard numbers instead of talking out of your asses? You people seem to forget that the entire Pokemon franchise puts money into their pockets in some way. And *that's* why Nintendo does well. They can mobilize entire ARMIES of children to spend their money on their product. What was the revolution that Sony started? Howabout Microsoft? Sega? This is the failing that those companies have, and the ace that Nintendo holds. Metroid, Zelda, Mario, Pokemon. All well known names. All of them a franchise worth betting your money on.
I am a bit saddened that Sega is no longer in the console business.
I mean, the Dreamcast had some truly wonderful games on it: Soul Calibur, NFL2K/NFK2K1, Jet Grind Radio, Samba di Amigo, Shenmue, Skies of Arcadia, Grandia II, Tony Hawk Pro Skater, the underrated Power Stone, Dead or Alive 2, and several others. I'm hoping that the games I've mentioned will be revived on other gaming platforms in the next few years.
The thing that really killed Sega was the fact they were not able to overcome the marketing power of Sony. The very name "Sony" has such as strong level of recognition that even with the current PlayStation 2 shortages they still can out-market Sega very easily.
Right now, it appears that only Microsoft and Nintendo have a chance to take on Sony, Microsoft from the high end with Xbox and Nintendo from the low end with GameCube and Game Boy Advance. I believe that Game Boy Advance will be the thing that keeps Nintendo alive in the next few years.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
I loved those ads, and that sexy voice..
http://dtum.livejournal.com
and what's even *funnier* is how I was trolled for 'bashing Sega.'
Oh well, it feels good to have the last laugh.
~ The Irony is, The only reason I'm not at Berkeley right now is because I was on acid during my SAT's..
They denied that they were dumping Dreamcast a week ago:
h tml?tag=pt.yahoofin.financefeed..ne
http://yahoofin.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-4575165.
Bad, bad, bad memories. Lynyrd Skynyrd even wrote a song about it, called "Working For MCA".
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"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Just a thought. Keep the bias open and obvious, please. It's what makes /. so useful to me.
"But always she's the spectre of uncertainty I first endured, then faded, then embraced..."
Could you be more specific? I mean, you seem to have omitted your actual argument.
There is still competition within such an environmement, with different games companies competing with each other. The consoles are sold at a loss anyway, and must compete with thin client PC's, which as far as the end home user is concerned, is very similar these days.
A console monopoly is good for the market, IMO. It is good for the consumer.
They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
--Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The
Taco always makes snarky comments about systems other than his beloved PS2, in the hopes of encouraging people to buy that already dated piece of hardware rather than wait for Xbox or Gamecube, both of which will be superior systems.
For example, I can remember him making snide, stupid editorial comments about Dreamcast back when (by his logic) the Playstation2 was vaporous. Even now, there aren't any games available for the PS2 that are significantly better than those available for the PSOne (which s a much better buy right now, especialy considering if you change your mind later you can play the software on PS2), and nothing on the horizon for it looks all that good.
The smart thing to do now if you don't own a PS2 is wait and see if the other systems will be better. once all three are out, then you can make a decision. Sony itself is already talking about the PS3, software sales in Japan have been slow and i wouldn't be surprised if Sony abandoned the PS2 fairly soon after Gamecube and Xbox if the installed user base isn't enough to worry about alienating.
As to the field thinning, that strikes me a questionable. back when it was Sony vs. Nintendo and Sega, both Nintendo and Sega had significant weaknesses. Sega had just come off of the SegaCD, 32X debacle which shook consumer confidence, and the Saturn was not designed for those polygonal games that appealed to the casual gamer. Nintendo, on the other hand, decided to stick with cartridges, which proved to be a mistake in the long run. However, Nintendo was better able to sell its characters and was able to maintain a significant (if diminished) audience for its console.
The new playing field seems to be much more even. Microsoft is serious about entering the gaming field, and have poured quite a lot of resources into their console. They are also excellent at marketing, and have as good a reputation with the average consumer as Sony (perhaps slightly better). Nintendo, on the other hand, has simply created a better box than Sony, and they have their strong, first party titles to back it up.
Yeah, it's over for Sega as a hardware maker (sad as that is), but I think that the PS2 is hardly in good shape. If Sony continues to rely as heavily on third party software as it has in the past, all it would take would be for Square (et al) to decide another platform was more attractive and jump ship.
Me, I'm just wondering how soon after Xbox and Gamecube launch Sony will be announcing Playstation 3. i mean, an add on modem, an add on harddrive? Sony is starting to sound like Nintendo with their 64DD or Sega with its CD and 32X, not a good sign for Sony fanboys.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
Sega Dreamcast: It's sinking.
----------------------
I'm a bit sad to see it go. I haven't picked up many games for it, but it has had a few decent games. Soul Calibur, Soul Reaver, the NFL2K series, and Virtua Tennis. I hope Sega Sports continues the excellence on its new platforms, and that the other developers bring the best of their titles elsewhere.
Actually, I can see Sony and Nintendo settling their bitterness someday and joining together to make a joint console to ward off Microsoft. We have seen this already in the PC world.. all the other giants coming together so they too can profit in a Microsoft dominated world. At this point, it takes joint ventures to compete with Microsoft.
A Sony/Sega/Atari/TurboGrafix/ColecoVision/Nintendo system would be pretty sweet. It could be called Soegaturbcondo... or something like that.
-gerbik
Dreamcast still has a lot of games coming out for it. It'll be like the saturn, it had a better afterlife because collectors will get it. Also, people are WRITING software for it because the protection can be beaten so maybe there'll be a lot of home brewed stuff on it like the linux port.
My point was that they didn't capitalize on the opportunity presented by Sony's manufacturing difficulties. That would have been a prime opportunity to get new customers at a time when console gaming was on everybody's mind.
Besides which, when was the last time you heard a word about the Dreamcast in mainstream media/advertising? Sega may have sold a lot of units when the Dreamcast was released, but since then, they have been almost silent.
Seems like when I was growing up, there were the people with the Sega Genesis and the people with the Super Nintendo. I remember always having arguments with the Sega faction (as all 7th grade boys did) "Well the Sega is faster" "Well the Nintendo can display more colors" and "Dude can you imagine when Nintedo makes a 128 bit system, wow that would be fast or good or whatever it means, probably". And Sega always had the more gory games and Nintendo had the friendly games... you could put the blood codes into Sega's Mortal Kombat but not Nintendo's.
slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
What about 989 sports? I liked their Gameday 2000 on PS far better then Madden 2000. I haven't played Madden 2001 or Gameday 2001, but I played NFL 2k for a bit and it seemed better than Gameday and Madden together. Still, 989 is still a competitor to EA and Sega, but I'm not sure how much of one.
A lot of people are saying that what matters most about a console is "how many games does it have". However, how many people would buy a console for one game? I know if they threw a MarioKart 128 out there, I'd drop 500 bucks for the console... even if it had only that one game! My friend got a Playstation for Final Fantasy 8 or something. Anyone else a die hard enough that you'd get a console for 1 or a couple games?
slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
I woke up this morning to NPR talking about the Dreamcast finally being dead. While I was drinking coffee, I opened up the NY Times to an article about Dreamcast being dead.
But until I saw it on Slashdot, I wasn't sure it was true. 'Cuz until Slashdot reports it, it ain't news.
Slashdot is jumping the shark. I'm just driving the boat.
I heard this on the radio this morning, and my first thought was of NeXT. The "we're a software company now" thing didn't work for them; why should it work for Sega?
But, maybe developing for the PS2 market will work for them. I'd like to see them succeed. The more games the better.
Geoff
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
I spent a year of college with 3 other guys who lived and breathed Mario Kart 64. Even after listening to them screech and yell at the screen for the 6th hour in a row, it was amazing how I couldn't help but plunk down next to them and play a few rounds.
Moral of the story? Replay value. For the N64 there are a small handful of games (with MK64 topping my list, of course) that make the system and extra controllers worth owning. Games that are nearly impossible to get bored with. Games that are fun sober or inebriated.
Me? I own a DreamCast. I bought a few games, and I burned a few games. Okay, maybe more than a few. But at the moment it is a given truth that over 200+ pirated games exist for the DreamCast. Even when stores finally run out and EBay supplies dry up (never, I know), you will still be able to own and play those 200+ games for a cost of nothing more than a spindle of cdrs, a decent CDR, and a few hours of your time. For $99 (plus and extra controller or two, of course), that's a HECK of a deal.
Screw plunking down $500 on a PS2 for what is IMHO, nearly the same technology. I've played both PS2 and DC, and they come out pretty even. If I was in the market for a game system right now, I would snatch up a $99 DC, buy/burn Tony Hawk2, MDK, Crazy Taxi, Virtua Tennis, and a few more sports games of your choice, and relish in the bliss of those well-made games. Then when you get bored with the 200+ titles out there a few years down the line, buy something new. But for now the DreamCast is hands down the best deal out there.
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Let me give you the lowdown
I agree totally. When the N64 and PS1 first came out I remember going to Toys-R-Us and asking an older gamer which he would get. He told me that he would get the PS1 since Sony had all of their money to invest into making the console and Nintendo had been spending money on previous consoles and game development. Now, this may have been a pretty shallow statement by the stranger but I enjoyed my PS1 for a while playing Tekken and other PS1 release games. Then, tragically, my house burned down and took my Playstation with it. I immediately went to Wal-Mart and bought an N64. I got it home and started playing it and noticed that the games were much higher quality. Sony's games felt nothing like the ones made by Nintendo and Rare. While Sony may have spent lots of money, Nintendo and Rare had the experience it took to pull off a great looking and great feeling gaming experience. After about 3 years with my N64 I got a Dreamcast last Christmas and I have loved it. The games are good and very slick, especially Sonic Adventure, and all are pretty well produced. Sega, I believe, is a nice mid-way between Sony and Nintendo. Okay, I'm rambling. I guess what I'm trying to express is that there are a ton of games for PS but only a handful are worthwhile (Please don't reply with a list of all the great PS games. I know your point of view.), Sony makes nice, fast, slick games but some of them lack something I can't quite put my finger on, and Nintendo makes very good playing games although they tend to lean to the kiddy side of the market. Putting all of that together, the new psone's are good if you can't get your hands on a ps2, dreamcasts are great machines, even if they run WinCE, and Nintendo's games have a sort of magic to them.
Considering the XBox is primarily a standardized PC platform with some really good multimedia processors and a unified memory architecture, its hard to say if it ever was vapor, even before it was completed. The question on XBox isnt whether Microsoft/Intel and NVidia can get the hardware together, its whether or not great games will be developed for it...And so far, looking at the signed developer list, things look pretty good.
Indrema, on the otherhand, always smacked of a cheap IPO ploy not much better than LinuxOne..So I'll be real surprised if/when I see that box available for sale.
What a long, strange, trip it's been. Thanks for the ride, Sega.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Whereas my experience from my wife owning one (and writing reviews for the games) is that the thing works fantastically, the games are pretty good overall (and Shenmue is awesome), and we have experienced no appreciable problems whatsoever.
The big problem is simply that Sega did not spend the money on marketing to get people excited about the Dreamcast. Oh, and having seen the graphics on the PS2 I dont know what the hype is about - the Dreamcast games are the equal or better of any PS2 game I have seen so far.
You couldn't give me a PS2.
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
Ok, when I make comments, they've occaisionally been way off base, or nasty flames, or whatever. But then, I'm not posting my comments in the main news stories, and when I have been really insulting or arrogant, I get modded down.
So, yeah, all journalists are biased, but if they start to be *smug* about there biases, I would expect them to lose readers.
Honestly, if I were a Taco fan (or a friend of his) I would be trying to give him the advice, "Hey! Tone it down, unless you want to push people away from this site through your own arrogance."
Nobody, wants to read an article on Slashdot and be insulted part way through it. Of course, I'm still here, reading the site... probably only because I can get a somewhat balance view from the comments rather than from whatever Cloud-Cuckoo Land that some of the story posters seem to live in.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
I personally don't care about companies going under... the thing I care about is the life of certain mascots. If Sega died, would Sonic live on? I'd cry if I knew Mario would never take another power slide, bop a koopa on the head, or break a brick with his fist. What does Sony have going for it? This is kind of lame, but I don't even know if they make their own games. I can't think of any commercial personality like Sega and Nintendo.
slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
I think the new number one third party developers will be Sega and EA. Although Square releases great software, they cannot compete with their franshices. I looking forward to EA finally having some competition with their sports titles. As we all know NFL 2K1 ruled Madden! :-)
Honestly, I was getting tired of only seeing EA sports titles on the PC and other consoles. I wonder what should I do with my Dreamcast?
Does anyone know what Sega is planning to do with their Dreamcast technology? It would be cool if they threw it our way.
-Angreal
The dreamcast is the only online console right now, and according to UPS my ethernet adapter should be on my doorstep this afternoon. Phantasy Star Online ought to kick ass, and give Everquesters a run for their money.
I don't think that Phantasy Star Online works with anything else than the modem. I'm not even sure there is any game coming with ethernet support.
yet another example of how a superior product falls due to inferior marketing, hopefully sega's developers can teach sony's a thing or two about making games on high end consoles..
Yes, it will be released March 21, 2001 in Japan (and July in America). And there are already 2.7 million pre-orders for it, so needless to say it will sell incredibly fast.
More information Here
yeah, it's disheartening that Sega ended up having to cave in to the power of marketing and develop for that hunk of junk, but with two good systems on the way that doesn't mean there is a reason to buy one.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
With no competition, there is little incentive to actually innovate, and the prices for the consoles will go sky high as your monopoly spends more and more money muscleing out any possible competition from the field.
The console makes relatively little money for the manufacturer (and none for the people that produce games for it) compared to what they rake in on the games they sell for it. As far as I know, this is true for every manufacturer who has ever produced a console, or a game for said console. (I wouldn't mind seeing counter-examples, if anyone has any.)
Pick a game theme on one of those consoles, and consider how many different versions of it there are. Two or three of each type of sports game (football, basketball, baseball), four or five different racing games (some brand name like Nascar, others with different exotic twists), and some genres occur almost spontaneously, and breed like rabbits -- for a while on the PSX you couldn't spit without hitting some variant of a skateboarding game.
Even games which have no other manufacturers' prior art to sell their offbeat concepts, still have to compete with the quality of the staid classic games for the consumer's limited cash, and that means they have to innovate like nobody's business. (Mmmmmm... Incredible Crisis)
On any given single console, there is still a great deal of competition: Each and every development company is looking to take that console that someone's produced, and squeeze every bit of fun, action, adrenaline, and pulse-pumping excitement onto a CD or cartridge using the SDK the developer has shipped them.
And they have to do this knowing that everyone else has received pretty much the same kit -- the ultimate in leveled playing fields. The only thing they can do is compete.
The system can be nothing but bells and whistles, or it can be plain. Developers will still try to wring the technotes for every pixel of power they can get. This means innovation, ladies and gentlemen, even if there's only one platform worth noting on the market.
In some ways, this competition between software producers is more important than the competition between hardware manufacturers. One of the biggest selling points of any hardware is the software that runs on it. It may also be worthwhile noting some aspects of the strategies of the hardware manufacturers:
Sony , when developing the PS2, tried to innovate their asses off. They did things no sane person would want to do to graphic hardware in order to get the maximum 'polygon-pushing power'. Consequently, as has been mentioned many times around here, the thing is something of a beast to program, but theoretically, when someone hits the mark and programs it right, watch out. This will end up, they hope, producing truly eye-popping games which will better sell their system.
Microsoft wanted to give X-Box developer and SDK primarily only to those developers who wanted to play by Microsoft's rules (read: bend over and smile like a shark. R.I.P. Bungie) -- get the creme de la creme of producers producing the biggest, brightest, most innovative games on your system, and the consumers will flock (n. a collective of sheep) to it, even if it's a dog turd with joystick ports.
And Nintendo is going with brand recognition and their successful merchandising lines (like the Pokemon phenomenon which, although the bottom is dropping out of the trading card market, still seems strong) to sell their next-gen console. Sure, it's a merchandising angle rather than a software angle, but guess what? The software that ties into that giant marketing machine will only run on their system. They're also promising a very easy to program system, to attract those developers that get frustrated with Sony's beast or Microsoft's attitude.
---
You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert until you read it in the original Klingon.
Let's not forget Indrema's Linux-based vapor.
What's a sig?
What's the PS/2? Oh, that's right! The IBM game console that never really took off. I hear a lot of banks use it, though.
There was the MasterGear converter that allowed Master System games to be played on the Game Gear, but I'm unaware of a convertor to go the opposite.
Sega also promised a convertor to play Master System games on the genesis, but I never saw one in a store in my area.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
But of the 26 million units Nintendo sold, 99% of them were pokemon. How much longer do you think that fad's license will tide them over? Nintendo has and will continue to have a headlock on portables, especially with the GBA, but as far as straight consoles go, it's dying. The Cube is its only hope- and Nintendo just won't market to the most lucritive audience. Right now, all us kids who grew up with video games are buying more mature titles. I know a ton of people who bought the Playstation for Resident Evil. Nintendo just doesn't allow its licensees the freedom to develop hard-core, mature games. And yes, I know about the port of RE2 to the N64, and it shocked the hell out of me. But I don't see them doing that again, and I sure as hell don't see them allowing something groundbreaking on thier machine.
Their entire marketing stratagy is built around being the "Kid's Console." Show me a kid who wants the kid's console over the adult's console, and I'll show you a kid whose parents dope him up with too much ritalin for his misdiagnosed ADD.
Unless something radical happens to the folks at Nintendo, thier console bussiness is dust. I don't see the handhelds going away anytime soon though.
--
Does narcissism count as a hobby? --Shawn Latimer
--
I love my dreamcast, I couldn't of asked for a better console. It just really burns me that the life cycle of consoles is being reduced everytime I turn around. Maybe the years are just passing quicker. But I thought with the excellent graphics, quick load times, and the awesome game controls DC would be around for a lot longer. I was so pleased when I went into my local video store and saw an entire row of DC games for rent. Now they'll soon be disappearing and being replaced with sh*t PSX2 games.
The King is dead, long live the King"
-- taking over the world, we are.
Holy Shit! That's just obscene.
That's pretty much a big kick in the nuts to anyone thinking that Nintendo is marked for death.
What's really bizarre is how they're managing to generate those numbers without being on the map anymore. Has anyone paid any serious attention to Nintendo in the last 2 years? You don't even hear about them in serious gamer conversations and yet they're raking in the bucks.
Is this something akin to the "Deer Hunter" phenomenon?
ie. Hardcore gamers make up a truly minscule percent of actual game sales?
Could pirating be hurting the competition? I mean it's quite a bit more difficult to pirate cartridges whereas PC and PS software is all on easy to burn CDs.
I suspect it's really combination of things, but it's still an amazing set of numbers.
Can anyone verify them?
-- kwashiorkor --
Leaps in Logic
should not be confused with
-- kwashiorkor --
Leaps in Logic
should not be confused with
Jumping to Conclusions.
. . .and in any case, started in the Arcade market, not the home-box market. . .
From where I sit, it looks like the console market is stuck in an eternal three-way fight, with one player rotating out every few years: Playstation-Sega-Nintendo-, Nintendo-Sega-Atari, Atari-Nintendo-Mattel...
So now Sega is out, and Microsoft is in the wings. Nintendo may be out next, in which case another company will probably find its way in. It's not the end of the gaming world -- and if it is, it will be years in the making. Don't sweat it....
TSG
If a pattern of stored bits are interpreted as a trademark by software, fine. That pattern could just as easily be interpreted as something altogether different. 10110101110110010110100100110101110110111011010 (c) 2001 Fuzzy
Double ditto for the Neo Geo. With an $800 console and $150 games, who could afford one?
Glückwünsche, haben Sie Slashdot ermordet, indem Sie zum korporativen Druck beugten und Subskriptionen einlei
A: sega flat out refused to listen to the loyal gamers who cried for Streets of Rage, Sonic Adventure 2, Crazy Taxi 2, Shinobi, Shining Force, and all of the rest of the Sega heavy hitters. (now we get some of them, just 3yrs too late....) B: 3 months after the DC was released the PS2 was announced, and since Sega would not regulate the content allowed on their system, a whole bunch of crap-ass titles came out. (50% crap, 50% gold) C: No marketing. (but then again, what shit title do you choose to market the system with, anyway?) There is always going to be different ideas on what actually caused the failure, but one thing is for sure, the company didn't start going downhill until the old President stepped down and gave way to a "newer, bolder" Sega.
Often there is nothing more appropriate. There are no "Not Funny," "Uninsightful," or "Uninteresting" options. If someone posts something that gets whacked up to +5, Informative, and then someone else proves that information wrong, the only way to correct is to mark it overrated.
... except for Quake III Arena, Pod 2, Unreal Tournament, and Phantasy Star Online, but those don't really count.
Thanks to $$$ and their ridiculous hype machine, Sega is toast. Im glad to see that the mod chip for the American PS2 finally came out, so now I can get even with Sony in my own little way.....
A sentence you'll never see on an Internet discussion board: "You know what? You're right."
Kiss DC goodbye unless someone comes out with a virtual machine for existing hardware.
Kevin Fox
Kevin Fox
someone at slashdot decides to use a credible fucking source in a gaming story!
'Mullethead. A hairstyle that's a way of life'
Once again marketing (Sony, Nintendo) beats good design (Sega). At least they'll still be doing what they do best, making great games. And I guess I'll have to pick up a $99 backup dreamcast in case something happens to mine.
--
I traded my N64 in for a dreamcast :-)
For me, It all came down to the games. Jet Grind Radio. Virtua Tennis. Several sweet fighting games. Even when you have the same game for both (Tony Hawk 2), the DC version is going to look much better.
I'm not saying the N64 doesn't have any good games - Goldeneye is one of the best FPSs I've ever played on any platform - but I just wanted to switch as soon as I played a few different games on the DC. If you have the extra cash, pick 'em both up, but obviously if I had to decide, I'd pick the DC even knowing that it's being phased out.
Look, I am not trying to get flamed, but who gives a dittly-damn about what format a game console runs on? Really people, c'mon. I could give a crap about if my box is linux or M$, as long as the games are fun and play well. Either way, we all recognize the Sega and Tendo masters, even if they were overrun by the Mongol horde. And stop dissin' tendo. That is like spitting on your grndmother. You will be wishing you had your tendo back when all of you PSX2 losers and X-boxers get it from the wrong end by a company that is only considering sales by saturation instead of sales by superior product. Honestly these corporations don't know why they want to make games, they just want to make a buck, and Sega and Tendo have always done it because THEY LIKE IT... not because they wanted to make enough money to buy out Viacom. So shuddup, and don't go crying to me or Miyamoto when yer games are a'suckin.
When playing Tony Hawk, you can turn down the muic, dude.
Since slashdot rumors sometimes prove true, I thought I'd try to start a good one...
Good lord, someone better ask Doug Miller at Microsoft how it is that a Windows-compatible device like the Dreamcast can sink like a stone while the Linux-based PS2 lives on. I mean, how on earth can this happen? It's Microsoft Windows CE-compatible, for god's sake!
Do your self a favor. Never move to America. We have enough dissident opinions that merge on hatefulness here. America is for problem solvers, not for people who point out problems, shoot them full of holes and leave them for dead. Some of us are actually religious, spiritual, highly-motivated people who want to help others. Many of us don't want to know about your problems, or even care, we would prefer to hear about WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO FIX THEM, ASS!!! You are the reason we find foreigners to be whiny, self-righteous bastards that tell us what to do, but never turn down our big fat international checks to keep your petty, inhumane, unorganized, dangerous governments afloat. You have to deal with us, not the other way around. Keep in mind one thing about Americans: at the end of the day, we are psychotic patriots because this system benefits us like no other government ever has. I don't see people fleeing America because of murderous despots that kill their people. YOU WILL NEVER DEFEAT FREEDOM. We refuse to think any way that anyone tells us to. So go ahead and try to demoralize us. We have a big bomb with your name on it that dances the Watusi down your chimney if you try to take our freedoms away in the name of one of your fashionable causes. So, shut up and sit down, you uncivilized bastards, BEFORE WE MAKE YOU SIT DOWN. Oh, and you can't outwork us.... aaaaand the apocalypes isn't coming for us, cause we're watching for it. And take a shower. How do you expect us to even take you seriously if you can't get your hygiene on?!?
The Dreamcast was simply undermarketed. When it first came out, it was head and shoulders above anything else available. Even the PSX2 doesn't really have anything on the Dcast game- or graphics-wise. Sega really should have blitzed the media during Sony's production problems to show off all they have (had) to offer, and pick up on the Xmas rush.
At least now I may be able to get some games at a respectable discount.
A company announces a product line, gets thousands if not millions of people to shell out the cash for it, then abandons the product. It happens all the time. The question is, did Sega imply by selling the DC that they were going to produce an extensive line of games for it? When you bought the DC, were you buying a cool piece of equipment *or* were you buying a player for cool games?
Judge Pag, the Learned, Impartial, and Very Relaxed
Speaking of news, does anyone have any idea/heard any reason of why Sega of America denied that the console was going the way of the dodo after Sega in Japan said it was being discontinued? I don't understand corporate communication strategies well enough, apparently... Anyone out there enlightened/jaded enough to help me out on this one?
Just like the Playstation 2 is out now?
>In short, the PS2 can't even stack up against the >XBox nor the Gamecube, But PS2 has the Tekken series and Wipeout which fscking rule! :-) And the box is so damned ugly :))
Developers had the choice of using the Sega OS or Windows CE, which were both on the CD. 95% of the Dreamcast games use the Sega OS, the 5% that use WinCE are quite slow.
Reason I ask is I'm looking for a newsih console to augment my Atari 5200. Any thoughts on game quality/quantity one over the other console?
"shop smart:shop s-mart" ash
Not so much that the Dreamcast is dead and Sega is out of the hardware business. Let's face it. This is business, and that stuff happens. But it's not like the PS2, NGC, or X-Box "beat" the Dreamcast. According to some reports, the software:hardware ratio for the Dreamcast was some 8:1 (PS2 at 2:1). It's not like the Dreamcast was a "bad" system. Perhaps it wasn't marketed very well. But the system was relatively easy to design for and could still pump out graphics on par with the PS2. *sigh*
Is console gaming going down? Right now the PS2 really isn't showing me a whole lot. Maybe I'll be a bit more impressed after E3 and after seeing Nintendo's and Microsoft's fall lineup. Oh well. It's just a sad day for video games.
January 31, 2001: The Day the Dreamcast died. RIP
Where the wind blows, the tumbleweed goes.
About a week ago I was discussing the console market with a friend. I gave him my opinion, and I'll share it here.
The competition is between Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo is a different league. Sony is a consumer electronics company making a gaming platform. Microsoft is a software monopoly looking to extract full rents with hardware. Neither is a game company (MS does have a games division, but it isn't the corporate focus).
This helps them with third party games. The companies don't fear the manufacturer screwing them to help their games. Their licensing fees don't price their games out of the market, everyone is a licensee. In fact, in this point, Sony has a big edge (MS business history AND their game division). However, MS has a big edge, DirectX. If you are making a PC game, the X-Box port will be trivial, this keeps Microsoft in it. I expect both consoles to do well, but I can't tell who has the edge. MS can launch with games, but Sony has loyal players, I can't tell.
Nintendo is NOT a consumer electronics/operating systems play, it is a game company. They make boxes to push their games. They focus on the Japanese market where they dominate. XBox will be states-side, with American companies churning out the games, they are too Amercian-centric to make it in Japan (my opinion).
Nintendo sells to the states as an afterthought. The original gameboy is ancient, but it beat the newer systems that followed it (including color systems, 32-bit systems, etc). Why? It has Nintendo's games.
Nintendo has some GREAT series. The Zelda and Mario series dominate. Even without a single third-party game, we all by the Nintendo consoles to play the Mario Games, the Zelda games, and Mario Kart, etc. This means that they get the consoles into a LOT of homes. Third party support may or may not come, but I'd be shocked of none hitting. I mean, Nintendo can put boxes in people's houses.
They aren't about hype. They aim for the kids market. Their kid focus lets parents feel safe buying the system, and the systems are fun for kids. Nintendo knows this market, and they own this market.
So it's gamers vs devers now? Lovely.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
this, dear ladies and gentleman is a troll.
Please do not feed the troll.
See this post, a few postings back. Or just go to the press release, off of sega's site.
Pace (a UK maker of digital TV decoders & stuff) are licensing the Dreamcast chipset for use in their next gen Set-Top-Box. See quote below: ======= DREAMCAST ON YOUR DIGITAL TV Digital TV set-top boxes will soon be able to play games written for Sega's Dreamcast console. The UK-based Pace Micro Technologies - which supplies set-top boxes to all the major TV distribution channels including Sky Digital, OnDigital and cable providers - has teamed up with the Japanese gaming company to build Dreamcast functionality into its next-generation equipment. It will allow digital TV broadcasters to deliver console-quality games - featuring 3D graphics, full motion video and digital sound - direct to consumers. Games will be downloaded to a 40 gigabyte hard disk in the set-top box, either on a 'pay per play' or a fixed-period hire basis. It will also be possible to beam games to other devices using wireless technologies. Pace has already developed a 'personal video recorder' facility for its set-top boxes, using similar hard-disk based technologies. 'Beyond conventional consoles' "Integrating games into set-top boxes expands Sega's market potential beyond conventional games consoles," said Andrew Wallace of Pace, referring to the previous week's rumours - subsequently watered down by company executives - that Sega was to stop manufacturing its Dreamcast console, turning instead to software development. "Existing users now have a new way to access games, and new users will be attracted since anyone with the hard-disk enabled box will have access to Sega's extensive games portfolio." Existing digital TV services often include basic games, reminiscent of 1980s classics such as Frogger and Pac-Man. But the ability to play 'proper' arcade-quality games will be a significant step forward. Sega has a long-standing reputation for quality games development, with particular strengths in racing and sports simulations. Although the new Sony Playstation2 and forthcoming Microsoft Xbox have much more powerful specifications, experts feel the Dreamcast's games have more than held their own against rival consoles' offerings
+++ BASELINE REALITY FAILURE+++ +++ PLEASE REBOOT UNIVERSE +++
Seriously. I don't know how it works overseas, but I can magine it is similar to Australia. Current rates mean one Austarlian dollar equals sixty US cents.
The console, afew months past release, is still selling for around seven hundred dollars. Over time it will stick to bering around four or three hundred dollars. A clone PC with a decent 3D card is around $1100.
Games are between eighty and a hundred each and rarely get turned into bargain bin material. PC games are between thirty or forty [for something nine months old] and seventy dollars. We also have a large swap meet culture which makes purchase of OEM games fairly easy, for around $20 a pop. Yes, new games require newer PCs to get the most out of. Nothing says you have to play new games - many PC users I know still play half like and counterstrike years after their release. Worldwide statistics about games played online make this still the case. Furthermore, old PC game asre cheap.
The other factor is that modern consoles seem rather...er...crap in comparision to modern PCS. The original playstation released with games like Wipeout a couple of months down the track which made OC users jaw drop. The PS2 released with games like SSX [or something like that] snowboarding which made PC users laugh at the poorly accelerated graphics. Old PC games like Half Life still look better than anything I've seen on the PS2.
Does anybody know if Bleem for Dreamcast will still be released? And if so, when???
Where's the beef?
Previously on slashdot: Dreamcast Runs Linux.
Oh, and it runs games or something too. So I have heard.
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
Didn't I just see something a few days ago about the dreamcast successor, that would play all dreamcast games, except not on CD, only via download? Normally I see mentions of previous articles that are related. Of course, I read slashdot daily, but some people might have missed it. :)
This is SO educational! -- Kintaro Oe
Well, Taco, you're asleep at the wheel again, I see.
You know, it's not as if the tech demos, the in game footage (Rogue Squadron 2?), and the fully functional hardware sitting in the hands of developers actually *means* anything... Noooooo...
XBox might be considered vaporous. Maybe. I've heard lots of reports of games being developed, but I haven't seen any running games on it yet, while I have for the GameCube. See, vaporware usually implies that nothing exists outside of closed doors. In this case, info is out in the open, demos have been run, the bare metal is being used already. Granted, it hasn't shipped, but that's a totally different story, and one that I'd rather not deal with at the moment.
Seriously, though... you've really got to stop adding your own personal bias so forcefully to your content. Take a hint from real journalists. If you're partial, be subtle about it.
Raptor
Raptor
"Procrastination is great. It gives me a lot more time to do things that I'm never going to do."
Developing an operating system is a bit like developing a new aircraft or going to the moon. It requires the utmost investment in time and money. The good thing about their being an operating system monopoly is that one company can afford to expend lots of cash developing the ultimate operating system. We can see this with Windows, which has had chips specially fabricated for it, unlike the MAC, which uses Intel technology designed for Windows.
There is still competition within such an environmement, with different games companies competing with each other. The operating systems are sold at a loss anyway, and must compete with free Linux distributions, which as far as the end home user is concerned, is very similar these days.
An operating system monopoly is good for the market, IMO. It is good for the consumer.
Reholster the flamethrowers and realize I am playing devil's advocate here. No monopoly is a good thing.
The ivory tower has never had to reach so h
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Cart Master
Bring out your dead!
Customer
Here's one.
Cart Master
Ninepence.
Dead Person
I'm not dead!
Cart Master
What?
Customer
Nothing. Here's your ninepence.
Dead Person
I'm not dead!
Cart Master
'Ere. He says he's not dead!
Customer
Yes, he is.
Dead Person
I'm not!
Cart Master
He isn't?
Customer
Well, he will be soon. He's very ill.
Dead Person
I'm getting better!
Customer
No, you're not. You'll be stone dead in a moment.
Cart Master
Oh, I can't take him like that. It's against regulations.
Dead Person
I don't want to go on the cart!
Customer
Oh, don't be such a baby.
Cart Master
I can't take him.
Dead Person
I feel fine!
Customer
Well, do us a favour.
Cart Master
I can't.
Customer
Well, can you hang around a couple of minutes? He won't be long.
Cart Master
No, I've got to go to the Robinsons'. They've lost nine today.
Customer
Well, when's your next round?
Cart Master
Thursday.
Dead Person
I think I'll go for a walk.
Customer
You're not fooling anyone, you know. Look, isn't there something you can do?
Dead Person
[singing] I feel happy... I feel happy.
[whop]
Customer
Ah, thanks very much.
Cart Master
Not at all. See you on Thursday.
Since this rumor is true, that means that Sega will be making PS2, N-Cube, and XBox games, not to mention that Sony, Nintendo, AND Microsoft will ALL buy Sega and dump all the ET Dreamcast games into a landfill in New Mexico!
:-)
Then Tribes2, Warcraft3, and Black'n'White will all be released simultaneously... TOMORROW! Hurry and buy yourself a copy first thing tomorrow morning. And then the next day Microsoft will be releasing its Bug-free versions of Win2k, and WinME, and Linux will fall in shame!
Nothing like having one little rumor come true to start some gossip
--
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
With the way the trolls have been posting on slashdot, I'm confused... are we sure this news is true? ;>
-Moondog
Gee, Rob, are your forgetting somebody?
I saw one of those for sale in a shop here (in Ireland) years ago. It was never bought, probably because the Genesis and SNES were the first generation of consoles to really become popular; no-one had any Master System games to run.
--
"Where, where is the town? Now, it's nothing but flowers!"
True, but if you're merely being offended, isn't it flamebait?
/. has been covering events the way it has.
Granted, that wasn't my goal, and I'm actually quite pleased with the overall response that I've gotten on this thread. There's been a lot of insight on *why*
As for the possibility of my being wrong, I admit to that quite readily. So a -1, Incorrect would be a wonderful addition to the list. (As well as -1, goatse.cx link...) However, the only part that I could've been interpreted as being wrong with was my opinion that the XBox is the closest to vapor. By that, of course, I mean that XBox hasn't shown any playable demos on their hardware as of the last time that *I* had checked. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
Now, I can't see "Not Funny," "Uninsightful," or "Uninteresting" as working in moderation. That means that you can legitimately mod someone into oblivion just because you know more, or because a certain topic doesn't interest you. Of course, at this point, it doesn't matter for this thread, but "Overrated" and "Underrated" are really used far too often, and for all the wrong reasons.
Raptor
Raptor
"Procrastination is great. It gives me a lot more time to do things that I'm never going to do."
Anyway, check out this article with news on where Sega is heading, including making games for PS2, Gamecube and Gameboy Advance.
Sega's got a good head on its shoulders when it comes to software. I wouldn't fret about them totally dying out (and I can't wait to see the Sega developers cut loose on the PS2. They might release some of the best games to hit the system).
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
I find it amazing that so many people blame marketing, when simple game reviews and game titles sold (volume) will show that the PSX had "bigger hits" (per console unit owned) than the Dreamcast.
IMHO, both consoles had good games, but the PSX simply had more variety, more choices, and when you're choosing between a slab of steak vs. a full-course meal, you choose the full-course meal...
Bad analogies, I know.. but.. don't blame marketing... 9.9.99 was promoted quite well by Sega. (release date of the Dreamcast in the US)
In the console market, there's room for only three players; First place, second place, and Nintendo.
First place is likely to be X-Box. I hate to say it, really, but it looks like it's going to stomp all over PS2. It's also going to have an endless string of crappy games, because it's going to be so easy to port games from Microsoft-Win32-Generic to Microsoft-Win32-XBox. Sure, it means we'll get the UTs and the Onis and the Total Annihilations, but we'll also get the Daikatanas.
Second place? PS2. DC may have more mindshare than PS2 right now, mostly because of all the weenies who paid too much for it and want to justify their investment, but also because of some very cool games, and some very popular games. Where you draw the line between the two is largely a matter of preference, but nearly everyone agrees that Jet (Set|Grind) Radio is a superbadass game. I personally think Soul Calibur or however you spell it is a wankfest, but that's because I'm the Tekken type.
Nintendo hasn't been a mainstream contender since they stopped making a light gun that looks like a gun - On the SNES. They REALLY left it behind when they decided not to have guns at all - For the N64. Sure, gun games are a tiny sliver of the market, but it represents a certain attitude - The attitude that one is going to make kiddie games. The majority of games on the Nintendo systems are targeted at a younger market, and they sell very well in that space. Young kids are going to do better with Super Smash Bros. than with SF CVS Alpha Dingleberry Super Wankaroni. Their parents would rather they ran around in a green tunic and brown tights and whacked polygonal baddies to save hyrule than plugging goons (no matter how evil they may be) with a .45. Well, at least, in California. They don't like guns here. Fascists.
Sega basically helped M$ get some console experience, and now they're paying for it. We (the gamers) may benefit from this effect, or we may lose. I'm not sure how I feel about M$ being a player in the console market. Maybe they should be split more ways, eh?
In any case, one good thing has come out of this whole fiasco: Sega will stop making those horrible controllers.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
If you want a new console system soon, here are the choices as I see them:
Dreamcast: Out of business. Cheap, though.
PlayStation 2: It may be out, but no one knows when this will be available. You want one? Wait for a few months and check again.
XBox: Supposedly coming out this year. Probably Christmas-time! I'm sure it'll be easy to get! Sarcasm aside, this one probably won't be available until some time next year.
Nintendo Game Cube: Not much hype around this one, despite some great screen shots. Same deal as with x-box, who knows when you will be able to get it. Probably some time next year.
Anyway, in my mind, if you don't want to wait more than a year for your system, either get a Dreamcast for cheap, or wait a few months for the more expensive Playstation 2. It's actually a difficult choice to make now.
too bad. it was a nice little machine. of course, Sony announcing the PS2 right after it was released slaughtered it.
i got my money's worth out of it. some of the games released for it are amazing.
At least they'll still be doing software. Sega makes great games and i was going to buy a PS2 (and an X-Box and a Gamecube cause i'm a junkie like that) anyways.
Your sig, is that from Red Rocket's Glare?
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
We can see this with the PSX2, which has had chips specially fabricated for it, unlike the X-Box and Dreamcast, which use PC technology designed for Microsoft Word.
Consoles sold a lot better in the 80's because they were very good at what they did: play games. The controls were quick and easy, the games had intuitive interfaces. The hardware was designed for a purpose, to make games. So the Super Nintendo hardware & libraries could get programmers moving those sprites around quickly and easily, while PC makers had write libraries and code that would get the PC to work to its potential as an all-purpose device.
Fast forward to 2001, where the average MS Word-using office worker needs only a P2-300 at most to survive, and yet Intel & AMD are trying to convince them that 1 GHZ will give their MS Word an incredible speed increase. So PC games have much too much power, and the console can barely compete. But perhaps with a monopoly and a kickass piece of hardware designed for gaming the consoles can come back and become a better than blah experience.
You might have a point about Acclaim doing some of the ports, but not all of the ports are being done by them - I prefer to wait and see if it will look better or not rather than pass judgement now. Not that you'll even be able to buy VF4 on a Dreamcast...
I don't want to start a war on that issue though, the Dreamcast has some great games and I may still buy one for the games that do not make it to the PS2. My original point is that even if the games look great, as good, or slightly worse on the PS2 than on the Dreamcast it does not matter, it's still a boon for the PS2 over the Xbox in the very short term. Eventually Sega will probably make all of the same games for the XBox, there just will probably not be as many of them out at the XBox launch as the PS2 has.
Now, what are you talking about with the TV output of the system? I use SVideo (my TV is a bit old and doesn't support component cables) and it looks great. I even used the composite out for a bit before I got the SVideo cable and the TV out looked fine to me. I've not seen many people complain about the output clarity of the PS2, there are things that have valid issues (system menus) but that is not one of them.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I hate Sony.
thank you to whomever moderated this for proving my point exactly. you are a blessing to the institution we call morons.
In Soviet Russia...michael would be rotting in Siberia!
But until I saw it on Slashdot, I wasn't sure it was true. 'Cuz until Slashdot reports it, it ain't news. With the way slashdot has been posting stories lately I was sure it was true until I saw it on /.
I don't know wtf was up with your stores, but I bought one on the first day, 8 games, 4 controllers, VMU, etc., and they have all worked PERFECTLY...the stores had all the games on time, too... you just have bad luck I guess
Bah
Does anybody have any info on using this as an MP3 player, or other similar hack? The original site with the BSD port seems to be down, and every hit on a search engine only seems to turn up pirated games or some portable player that plugs into the dreamcast.
It seems to be able do download mp3s into its RAM and play them, but can you drop a CDR of MP3s in and play them? How about m3u files?
+5:offtopic,but anti-American
I worked at CompuCentre when the Dreamcast first came out - our in store demo had to be replaced twice because of problems with the Console itself burning out.
We got tonnes of customers around Christmas who wanted the standard items, like, an extra Controller. Sega kept promising delivery, but most of the stuff people were looking didn't show up for 4 months!
Games were released that Sega quickly found didn't actually work in the console (Something to do with the quality of the CD they printed the games on causing problems with the copy-protection scheme in the console).
People who bought the consoles despite these major flaws (And me telling them when the boss was in the back room "Don't buy this thing, it's absolute crap! it really is, seriously, don't.... ever. don't.") - well, these people showed up week after week waiting for the games scheduled for quick release; and they didn't come out on time either. By the time I left compucentre, they had all the controllers, memory packs and lots and lots of games for the Dreamcast - as well as 4 console units that never sold in 4 months because by that time - nobody wanted the damn things.
This particular store could sell 5 - 10 Playstation Consoles in a single day; which is very good for retail in a small Canadian city eh.
Ace
Also, people are WRITING software for it because the protection can be beaten
The boot sector of all Dreamcast discs contains an access control measure under the DMCA: it contains 14 KB of data that must match data in ROM bit-for-bit, or the disc won't boot. And this 14 KB of data contains code that displays trademarks (renewable perpetually in the USA) and is copyrighted (also perpetual in the USA).
Like Tetris? Like drugs? Ever try combining them?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Yes.
Works, though.
--Just Another Pimp A$$ Perl Hacker
El riesgo vive siempre!
Indrema is shit... How do you figure that? Especially since I don't need to buy a devbox to make games. I can develop right in Debian. The chief hiimself said so durinmg an online chat. I need one later on just to certify my game and libraries. And even that's not necessarily true. PS2 dev nightmare... I can't qualify this. but I sure as hell am not buying a devbox. Though I hear they use Linux for development as well. XBox... This is a definite contender, only because Microsoft plays it smart when they get started in a market, then they get lazy. It has all the features of upcoming boxes because Microsoft can juggle all the effort. Course they're STILL using Linux to develop for it, cross-compiling until NT boots on it. NT 351 did however boot but MS went mikrokernel happy. As far as I can see all are using Linux on the machines. I've already got a devbox, I already have the libraries, I have perfect freedom to add my own libraries. Indrema is a win for me.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
Indrema is shit... How do you figure that? Especially since I don't need to buy a devbox to make games. I can develop right in Debian. The chief hiimself said so durinmg an online chat. I need one later on just to certify my game and libraries. And even that's not necessarily true. PS2 dev nightmare... I can't qualify this. but I sure as hell am not buying a devbox. Though I hear they use Linux for development as well. XBox... This is a definite contender, only because Microsoft plays it smart when they get started in a market, then they get lazy. It has all the features of upcoming boxes because Microsoft can juggle all the effort. Course they're STILL using Linux to develop for it, cross-compiling until NT boots on it. NT 351 did however boot but MS went mikrokernel happy. As far as I can see all are using Linux on the machines. I've already got a devbox, I already have the libraries, I have perfect freedom to add my own libraries. Indrema is a win for me.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
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"You owe me a case of beer. Sucka'."
I was going to write the same thing, but you stated my thoughts beautifully.
Unfortunately, the death of the Dreamcast has given us a view of things to come.
The major console systems as of before Dreamcast bowed out were Nintendo (Nintendo 64), Sony (Playstation 2) and Sega (Dreamcast), with Microsoft coming soon with the X-box. Nintendo has been slowly dying out over the past few years, with much of the Nintendo and Sega crowd going over to the Playstation and Playstation 2.
What it looks like will happen is that in a year or so, we will hear Nintendo barely hanging on as the X-box comes out. Unless Nintendo pulls a power move, probably in the handheld gaming market (which will probably be the rumored upcoming GameBoy Advance), they will bow out soon also.
Sony will be the only competitor to Microsoft. Hopefully, Sony will solidify it's consumer base and hold on to them with a drastic reduce in price of it's console and a wide variety of good, solid games, along with development of their online gaming division.
Unfortunately, what probably will happen is that Sony will drop the ball this year. Microsoft will release the X-box to a small audience and start out slow. The X-box and PS2 will be in competition for about a year, maybe 18 months, with Microsoft gaining ground as Sony loses ground. Microsoft will win out by offering lower prices and integration with the PC platform, along with a wide variety of online games. This will probably also lead to Microsoft licensing it's game operating system, and new consoles, all running X-box OS will pop up, all sanctioned by Microsoft. Sony will become a very minor player, eventually dying out sometime in the next 5 years.
Unfortunately, that's the way it most likely will turn out.
icanneverbereached@sogoaway.com aint my address.
I'm sad to see this happen, but my friends will be happy to get dreamcasts for $100. I suggest anyone reading this go out on Feb 4th (when the pricebreaks happen) and buy one, it's a fantastic system. There's a ton of good games out, and a lot of them are only $20. Check out Crazy Taxi (ultimate party game), Soul Caliber, and Target's current offerings.
The dreamcast is the only online console right now, and according to UPS my ethernet adapter should be on my doorstep this afternoon. Phantasy Star Online ought to kick ass, and give Everquesters a run for their money.
Someone pointed out that the DC runs WinCE, which isn't true most of the time, but it is for Nightmare Creatures 2, as evidenced by the first 10 minutes of playing the game on my birthday: Pic 1, Pic 2
Sega makes some of the most unique games out there, from Jet Grind Radio to Seaman to Crazy Taxi... It would be worth your while to check them out if you haven't already.
My $0.02
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Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
Of course, I could be wrong and it was just stupid. Who knows?
the Playstations 2 is the PSX2, never, under any circumstances should it be referred to as the PS/2. PS/2 brings up bad memories of MCA and other nasties.
This is my signature. There are many signatures like it but this one is mine..
Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast - I think I see a pattern!!
The PS1, IMHO, sucked compared to the competition but it had so many damn games... and that is peoples' main motivation for buying a console: does it have games? Is this an investment that I can buy other games for?
It just goes to show that Microsoft and Sony both know how to market aggressively and appeal to the people/industries at large.
What I can't wait to see is them going head-to-head. It's really going to get interesting now, since neither one has been known to back down from an industry.
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survival of the fittest baybee...
Point A) Nintendo's next console has been announced. with the power of their franchises (mario, zelda, et. al.) they'll sell a lot of gamecubes.
the gameboy advance has like, zero competition. they will rake in so much dough off it they could probably afford to support a loss-making console business.
Point B) Sony is...well...Sony. the company's name is synonymous with quality consumer electronics. the word Playstation is on it's way to becoming another Kleenex or Saranwrap. PC people think of Microsoft as an unstopable Goliath but they're about to jump into a market that Sony basically owns. one where they have almost no reputation.
this is going to be a great fight to watch.
The truely killer-app for game consoles will be the system that first comes to market using Linux as an OS. The benefits of using Linux should be apparent to all, and it is rather suprising that nobody has done so yet. Most likely this is due to Microsoft's monopolistic tactics and its using its market strength to force companies to use something inferior. Or gee, could it be because linux sucks balls for gaming? Unless you want to play Tux Racer, Quake 3, or Unreal Tournament, Linux gaming ain't exactly hopping these days, and to top it off, several developers have said they won't be doing linux games anymore because no one is buying them.
segfaulteq@home.com
Hello? Whatever happened to the triumph of the human spirit? Lofty goals? Standards?
What you need to learn is that it is not right to have so little respect for other people's worth as individual human beings. Each person is unique, each person is valuable, and denying this is simply a short-sighted, materialistic fantasy.
So have your Super Bowls and your SUV's and your game consoles. But don't be shocked when your nation is cursed and spat on by every other for the injustices it commits for you. Don't come complaining when you regret your empty, wealth-obsessed life. Don't be surprised when those you've trampled on to get your little toys decide to stop being so docile.
Go on, pampered little sheep, ignore the real world. Just keep in mind that, someday, it's going to stop ignoring you.
They're still around, and they're a "software company".
I hate to be another "did you read the article" poster, but they are not dropping the Dreamcast platform, they're just stopping their own production of the Dreamcast console and licensing the technology out so someone else can do that part (better/cheaper). The console sales were always the least profitable (sometimes blatantly unprofitable) part of the whole proposition.
There will be more Dreamcast games, more Dreamcast accessories, and, in all likelihood, more Dreamcast (or Dreamcast-compatible) consoles. Look at the other articles on IGN (http://dreamcast.ign.com/news/30862.html, for instance) for more details.
-Puk
Besides, most of the women who do things like this feel they are exploiting the men. They figure that work like this, which attempts to reach the most primal parts of a person's brain, is easy, and fun, too.
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
wow. never saw that before. that's just absurd.
i knew Nintendo raked cash but jesus.
a beowulf cluster of Dreamcasts!! I can afford it now! Drool...
Steven
-- I have marked myself unwilling to moderate-- I don't have other accounts to artificially inflate the karma of
More like "Marketing+good games" beats "Crappy Marketing + good games" Design of the console has never been what made it sell well. It is ALL about the software and if you don't know about the software, masses won't buy it.
Vermifax
Vermifax
Logout
I owned an 8 bit master system, when Sega shipped the Genesis they said that they were going to continue Master System development. They kept that promise for allof about 2 months. Then the Sega CD and 32X were treated the same way when the Saturn shipped. Finally Saturn users were anally violated by Sega when they shipped the DC. Now all of those people who were loyal to Sega will take it in the butt again.
After the Genesis, I swore to never buy another Sega console system again, I'm as happy as ever about that decision.
Sega gets no more chances to stick a red hot poker in my eye.
Now that I've sworn off all console systems, I couldn't care less who is making or discontinuing what and what is or isn't vaporous.
I'm a PC gamer now, at least until something better comes along.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
...for the PS2.
One of the major complaints about the PS2 has been the lack of quality games. With Sega making great games for the PS2 (Virtua Fighter 4, Shenmue 2, etc.), the PS2 will probably beat the stuffing out of the XBox or the GameCube.
This
Humanity.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
It seems that CmdrTaco knows very well the distinction between Vapor and Non-Vapor products, but he is simply biased depending on what camp he is defending in his posting comments. His damnation about placing the Linux 2.4 kernel on a vaporware list by saying he'd been running it for many months is equivalent to the beta-testers that are running the new Nintendo consoles. Thanks for the wonderful lesson Taco, but I'm still confused as to where you stand.
Remembering your name in the morning is already a good start...
Has anyone had any experience running NetBSD or Linux on the DC? The $99 price tag may make a nice little appliance. I'd imagine that the performance is better than the iOpener or any of the other embedded network computers.
Of course it may be a while before the broadband adapter is supported...
If there is a console monopoly, there will be no advancement in the console game market. If the PS2 were the only console available, we'd have nothing but PS2 for years to come. I don't know about you, but I like it when technology advances. Monopolies are almost never a good thing.
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http://www.dcemulation.com
Donate your dreamcast with all your warez to underpriviledged child! Still a fun console, sucks that it didn't last long at all! ==sam==free nessus vulnerability assessments=www.vulnerabilities.org
===sam=== free nessus vulnerability scan = www.vulnerabilities.org