Slashdot Mirror

https://www.daskeyboard.com/p/... - minimalist and white backlight.

I ummed and ahhhed for a while about hunting down an authentic model-M, or buying a remade model from Unicomp.

But I settled in the end for a new keyboard from Das Keyboard and have been very happy with it.

http://www.daskeyboard.com/ ...but not the "cloud connected" keyboard they are advertising on their page, that thing has the AIDS.

I just picked up one of these and I must say I've been incredibly happy with it. The construction is top notch (Germans know a thing or two about how to build stuff), the key action is amazing, and it looks incredible. Pricey? Yes. But so is a finely-crafted automobile. Both will probably outlast you.

If you're the old-school type, it's hard to go better than Das Keyboard.

Well, you *can* go better. Das Keyboard has issues when you type too fast. Unicomp keyboards are decidedly less expensive, sturdier, and support any typing speed without misregistering keys.

If you're the old-school type, it's hard to go better than Das Keyboard.

However, if you're willing to experiment, I'd recommend trying out the current Apple Keyboard. I was squarely in the Model M demografic and for my life wouldn't have guessed that I like the Apple Keyboard and it's flat keys, but ever since I got one I've been using them almost exclusively. My typing speed has increased and I've come to like the laid-back lightweight and minimalist approach these take.

I recommend you try an Apple/Slim Keyboard for a few days before you decide what to buy. Could be that you're suprised just like I was.

I have one of those noisy DAS keyboards (with the blue switches). It is indeed noisy but absolutely brilliant for both typing and gaming. http://www.daskeyboard.com/

I have a Das Keyboard that I'm very happy with. However, I let my ego get the better of me and went with the ultimate model that is entirely unmarked. My typing is good, but not good enough for this board. On top of that, something that I certainly didn't realise before, is that while keyboard markings are not required for touch typing, they are still very much essential for keyboard shortcuts. Seriously, I don't care how good your touch typing is, when you're "hands off" from the board you'll find it really hard to hit a two-hand keyboard shortcut without markings on the keys. It's even more of a problem when the application is shortcut-rich and hitting the wrong key does something strange...

Otherwise, I'm happy to recommend this Model S but with the key labels!

PS: This board is loud. Too loud for a shared office environment. Though it did intimidate the absolute hell out of my office mates for the short while I was allowed to use it there... :)

there is also http://www.daskeyboard.com/ which claims its modern keys replicate the feel of buckling spring boards, and are available in loud, and not so loud. They also have a model with no markings on the keys, for the true elitist.

s/OTP/OTR/

Blame my new German geek keyboard layout and keyboard.

Hmm, I think you misunderstood what he meant by a mechianical keyboard. And yes they are better than the rubber dome crap most people call a keyboard these days.

I learned to type on a typewriter. Now I use this keyboard at work (I do a lot of writing for my job). Since there are no labels on the keys, I can see the wear patterns and they are concentrated around the home row (and space bar) exactly as intended. I suppose the home row makes no sense on virtual keyboards, but then again virtual keyboards make no sense, which is why there are a zillion "swipe" and "predictive" keyboards on the Android market... so, yah, as you say, interta; I already have to deal with f***ing French keyboards, why would I want to complicate my life even more by adding another non-QWERTY keyboard to the mix?

What B?

Also: Yakuake + qdbus + bash script (+ mapping on a key, using qdbus) = everything's doable via keyboard anyway.

Obviously there are people who scrape the letters off their Dvorak Simplified keyboards just to screw with others.

Actually, I just set the OS keyboard layout to Dvorak and type on it without looking at the keys...

Additionally, I do own a keyboard with no key-cap markings, but I purchased it this way...

I find that people are more confused if the key they press has a differently labeled key than the character it generates than if the keyboard has no key-cap markings at all.

(Most keyboards have keys that can be popped off and re-arranged to your preferred layout, but some keyboards mount the F and J keys differently, or have a different key shape for each row...)

Dvorak keyboards that can be used without selecting the OS keyboard preference are expensive because they have to translate the scancodes themselves. You know what I'd be exited about? US Smart phone manufacturers allowing me to select or modify the on-screen keyboard layout... Even the Apple II supported Dvorak, (in fact, OSX supports both single hand layouts (optimized for left or right only). ) oh that's right Steve, I forgot, I didn't want to use any other key layout on the iPad than the one I don't use...

Reminds me of the virtual laser keyboard that came out a few years back. Is there anyone out there who actually bought one and used it regularly (or, like, more than 5 minutes)?

Yeah, I have one. Funny thing about typing is that fingers need a resistance buffer (ala buckling springs) so that you can rest your fingers without triggering a key-press, and get feedback (even, mmm audible clacks) to notify you to stop pressing.

I have tried using the laser keyboard, and it fails in the same way that all touch-pads & touch-screens do.

• No resting position
• No physical response to keypress
• No pressure buffer

By "pressure buffer" I mean that pressure goes from none to 100% ALL STOP on each press using any touch surface. This is retarded behavior (seriously, retards my typing speed considerably), and causes more repetitive stress due to the equal/opposite forces slamming into the end of your fingers each time you press.

Set your keyboard aside, and pretend to type on the desk -- It HURTS after an hour or so. The mechanical keyboards & mice are truly far superior. My normal speed of 80wpm drops to 50wpm with the laser keyboard. Hint: I can touch type, but the laser can't notify me by touch where the damn keys are at...constant readjustments are required.

On the topic of pointer input...

Hello touch interface users: Welcome to the next round of: Rub your fingertips off (or alternatively: Really Expensive Writers Cramp).

Even if you put down a flexible mat in front of the EvoMouse to reduce finger impact strain, and grease it up to reduce the finger friction burns, you still have to deal with either "flying fingers" or "repetitive keyboard to pointer reach" -- No restful position.

Look where your pointer hand is even when you're reading: Resting on the mouse / trackball / keyboard, ready to scroll past this nonsense at the press of a button or roll of a wheel (Hint: remap Capslock to Ctrl and use ctrl + IJKL (CHTN on Dvorak) as arrow keys... no more arrow key reach stress). Touch users will be hovering their finger above the scroll region, or else will have to reach to scroll.

I prefer pen-tablets, mice, trackballs, keyboards... Why anyone thinks that an "insubstantial" interface is intuitive is beyond me -- we have nerves tuned for mechanical manipulation and touch feedback. Here's a brilliant Idea: Let's utilize our senses / nerves, not make them less important; Let's also stop labeling input methods that require even more motor skills than finger twitch, wrist move as "innovative".

The Wacom Intuos4 pen-tablet comes with a "wireless" mouse that doesn't take batteries -- NO, I said NO batteries, not "it's a rechargeable bullshit battery that you have to charge" -- I mean, It works just like the damn pen does, the tablet senses the mouse.

I just move the mouse aside and begin drawing with the pen to switch back and forth. No wires (except on the pad itself), and Bonus: Gimp recognizes the pen-tip, pen-eraser, and mouse all as separate pointers with their own tool selection auto activated when they are above the pad. Draw, flip pen to erase, grab mouse to arrange & composite.

I get both: The precision & natural feel of a pressure sensitive "touch" pen-tablet, and the restful comfort & familiarity of a mouse for every day point / click / scrollwheel.

Touch / Laser input be damned. You're right, it's neat for 5min -- Keep the box & re-gift them; These touch input devices are a toys, not real "work" devices (by this I mean that if you do most of your work by key/pointer input touch devices are horribly inefficient & inaccurate at best -- The touch devices would probably be fine for a manager or C*O who doesn't require comfortable

While there is a trend towards touch-screen keyboards on portable devices, I can also see an opposite trend towards more higher-quality mechanical keyboards on stationary PCs.

While there will always be old-timers who love their retro equipment, I think that the largest and fastest growing market segment for tactile keyboards with mechanical key switches is gamers.
Every day on gamer-oriented forums, you can see someone wanting to buy a used IBM Model M. The prices on eBay and other auction sites are soaring.
Gaming peripheral maker Razer's latest and greatest keyboard has mechanical switches that click, similar to the old Model M. The Das Keyboard is also popular among gamers. More mechanical keyboards are coming: Zowie Celeritas, Leopold, Ducky ...
(just beware of misleading marketing when visiting gamer brand sites!)
Although there is somewhat of a herd mentality among gamers, the gaming community has influenced the rest of the PC world quite much before -- just look at graphics cards.

The second largest group that I see, are the computer professionals who have become older, have more money and demand quality peripherials, plain and simple.

The third group that I see are people who demand something that is more ergonomic. More distinct tactile feedback and lower, more gradual activation force is often perceived as kinder to the fingers.

Myself, I switched from Dell and Keytronic rubber dome keyboards to soft mechanicals this summer, and I don't look back. I have been working as a computer programmer for a lot of my adult life and belong to the second and third groups above. My fingers don't ache a lot at the end of the day, as they could do before. I have also been suck(er)ed in into the keyboard community at Geekhack that I can heartily recommend if you are interested./

. . . nothing but a newer Model M that is!

Sadly, My Model M is no longer with us due to an incident involving a wedge of dried pineapple and a chinchilla.

I know my new Model S isn't trying to replace my Model M, but I find comfort in the sound of its buckling spring key switches with gold-plated contacts none the less.

I have a Laser Keyboard. It's neat, but it's a toy. Doing any amount of work is painful due to the repeated pounding of my fingers against the surface with no resistance.

My buckling spring blank keyboard is my "serious" keyboard. Keys need to provide a cushion for fingers. No touch screen keyboard provides this much needed resistance, and "air typing" (which you can do with the Laser Keyboard if you set it up just so), lacks the feedback I need to type accurately and quickly.

I fear that a foam-like sponge keyboard would only collect even more of the disgust that we must not name than a traditional keyboard -- At least when I clean my blank keyboard I don't have to worry about putting the key caps back on the correct posts, and I can rotate my key caps to allow even wear...

Back in the day, the mechanical switch and the buckler keyboards were fantastic. They had the weight, they had the tactile response, they had the satisfying click you get when you press down a key, plus they were nigh indestructible.

Luckily, there are still some mechanical keyboards available. I'm typing on a daskeyboard right now, and it has everything a good mechanical keyboard needs to have - tactile response, wonderful clicky sound, N-key rollover on PS/2. I haven't tested whether it is indestructible, but it seems to be pretty robust (and heavy).

Mechanical keyboards have become niche products and are expensive, but IMHO they are worth the money for someone who has to type a lot of text.

If you want to go all out 1337 you get this: http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-ultimate/

I just take the keycaps off mine and leave the blanks on. :-)

If you want to go all out 1337 you get this: http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-ultimate/

Actually, Das Keyboard http://www.daskeyboard.com/ supports 12 keys to be pressed simultaneously :)

Use NEO. And scratch the paint off your keys. Or get Das Keyboard Ultimate. I guarantee you, noone will even want to use your computer.

I have a Das Keyboard, based on the original Model-M design. Definitely recommended if you're sick of typing into a soggy sponge.

There is something incredibly satisfying about solving a particularly complex problem, and hitting "enter" for a crunchy click. No other keyboard satisfies my lust for tactility the way this one does.

Exactly what you need: http://www.daskeyboard.com/slideshow/front-view-ult-1050.png

Just curious (I'm not dyslexic)... have you ever tried not to look at the keyboard or use "Das Keyboard" with blank keys?

I'm an Omnikey man myself - been using one for about 20 years now. There is a company that makes an Omnikey clone but with windows keys. And when I say clone, I don't mean a cheap knock-off, the Avant Prime is near perfect down to using the same Alps switches. It's not cheap at $150 but I feel that mine was well worth it -- Keep in mind you will need a $15 PS2-to-USB adapter if you do not have a serial-PS2 keyboard input.

If you like the clicky feel, there is also the DAS Keyboard which is slightly cheaper at $129 and has USB (+ hub). They have a silly "Ultimate" version which has all blank keys to thwart anyone else from using your computer (err I mean to improve your typing skils). A friend of mine bought one (with the letters on it - not the blank keys). However, after he tested both his D.K. and my APrime, he was lusting over my APrime.

You don't have to pay $130+shipping for Das Keyboard. You can get it from thinkgeek.com for $80+shipping. It's out of stock right now

1. It is currently on sale for $99 at Das Keyboard.

2. Have keyboard aficionados forsaken the Happy Hacker keyboard? I love the HH Lite 2: good key response and feel, better placement of the control key, and no numeric pad (so it sits nicely in my lap for wrist-resting typing).

Das Keyboard
I have the second version with variably weighted mechanical (clicky) key switches. It's very nice.

I could never decide between the unicomp type M and the "das keyboard" http://www.daskeyboard.com/. The das keyboard has clickly keys but they aren't buckling springs. After seeing this article I called unicomp and they advised me I could get a black on black space saver with blank keys for a few bucks more, in other words a "das keyboard" style type M. Best of both worlds!

Um yeah, I used one until the PCB crapped out last year. Replaced it with a Das Keyboard, which also has buckling springs. It's a little less sturdy than the Model M though, I wish I had gotten the Unicomp model.

Maybe you just have weak hands?

Enough cicky-clack to annoy your workmates, and a good feel to it.

Never had a Model M, though, so I can't give a comparison.

Also, I only have slight problems with the lack of key information w.r.t. the top row (numbers and symbols on top). YMMV, of course.

I agree 100%. I've always had trouble finding a decent keyboard fitting those requirements. Luckily, the Das Keyboard II has the perfect layout for me.

But what if your roommate uses the Das Keyboard ? Who's the real fool ?

Way ahead of you...Check this one: Das Keyboard. When I hit a coding run, people come from down the hall to see where the hell all the noise is coming from. The blank keys are also good for the whole alpha geek thing, and forget having your boss ever try to type anything on your keyboard.

I used to use a Deck keyboard; they've got a good heft, and though the keys aren't sitting on mechanical switches, they still have a nice solid action and a good sound, but the backlit keyboards have exactly the opposite effect on bystanders...People always want to type on your keyboard, and if that irritates you (as it does me) it's a bad choice to have one sitting around.

Who fricking watches the keys while typing or gaming?!

I don't think my granny would really appreciate Das Keyboard, especially with my dvorak mapping.

The most important keyboard - Das Keyboard. Not only the sound is great but also the tactile feel is just awesome. And, as a matter of fact, you can write on them - fear my "EMACS"-labeled control key!

http://www.daskeyboard.com/big.html ftw!

You know, you can still buy Model M keyboards from Unicomp. You want their "Customizer" line. The Das Keyboard is also a good option. It's a little quieter than the Model M, but still gives plenty of feedback. It's also a whole lot lighter than the Model M, which you may or may not like.

I'm going to run my Optimus in stealth mode.

Well I suspect it will be programmable. Imagine when holding ctrl and seeing the 'S' become 'Save', the 'V' become 'Paste' etc.

Also, within vi/vim, depending on whether you are in command or input mode, the 'hjkl' keys could be arrow keys (as well as appropriate symbols etc for the other keys).

Of course.. all this assumes you actually look at your keyboard while using it. Strange that the das keyboard has not markings on its keys at all, and is proud of it. There is some logic to it.. I suspect having displays on your keys will actually slow you down quite a bit.

Don't be so excited. How often do you look at the keyboard ?
Each and every time you take your gaze off the monitor, off the code, your brain has to look at the keyboard. This is a little bit like saving a register on the stack doing an unrelated task and then loading the register back up again.

In short, spillage will slow you down a bit, the best way to become more productive is to memorise the shortcuts and not have to look at the keyboard.

I personally have and use the das keyboard. It's completely blank and the feel on the keys is amazing. I'm a proud owner of an IBM Model M13. I happily bang away on it at work, but the keys are a bit heavy. Compared to my m13, macbook pro keyboard, and Das keyboard I have tested myself faster on the Das.

On top of that I would like to add reviews of the optimus mini 3, they were 'sticky' and did not have a confortable click to them.

Also for those that have made the switch but aren't touch typers and just magically your fingers know where the keys are, does it take a long time to "learn" and can you switch back between them without hassles?

If the key caps don't matter, and you never have to look anyway, I suggest you get Das Keyboard.

1. Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6700 Processor - $970.00
2. 2 x EVGA GeForce 8800GTX KO Video Cards in SLI - $1,299.98
3. EVGA 680i Motherboard - $249.99
4. 4 GB Corsair Dominator (PC2 9136) Memory - $878.00
5. Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite - $259.99
6. 4 x Western Digital 10,000 RPM Raptor Hard Drives (RAID 0) - $919.96
7. 4 x Seagate Barracuda ES 750GB Hard Drives (RAID 1) - $1,519.96
8. Koolance PC4-1036BK - $618.95
9. 2 x Dell Ultrasharp 3007WFP Monitors - $3,398.00
10. Lian-Li F1A Computer Desk - $2,895.00
11. Das Keyboard - $89.95
12. Logitech MX Revolution Mouse - $89.99

You're not supposed to look at the keyboard. It slows down your typing.

Learn to type on a blank keyboard.

Thinking my keyboards are not cheep but verry well worn in.

The ones on the servers are like Das Keyboards. http://www.daskeyboard.com/ It keep most people off them. No letters to work with are left on them. I don't have a problem using it.

I find I type faster on Mechanical keyboards than membrane. My keyboards pay for self in a year. Normally if I see a new keyboard at my workstation first question who nicked my Mechanical keyboard they better return it now.

Ok I have not needed a new keyboard in over 10 years. One day I will have to upgrade and get one with windows keys.

I have been timed I lost over 30 words per min on a membrane keyboard compared to a new Mechanical and that is still 5 word per min slower than the ones I have broken in. They get a little softer with use. Not much but it does make a difference.

A good keyboard to me is like a good pair of boots. Feel and work the best just before it fails.

There is little "luxury" money can by when it comes to mouses. Then again, if you REALLY want to live it up, we have luxury-class keyboards too. Slashdotters are forgetting to mention the people willingly forking over 100 bucks for one of these: http://www.daskeyboard.com/.

The new thing looks suspiciously like a Cherry G80-3000, as seen here or here, or here. This one goes for about EUR 35, or around US$40.

Or compare this and this.

Outsourcing manufacturing to the Czech Republic would be among the default choices for a german company like Cherry.

Link to the keyboard. http://www.daskeyboard.com/

Since the article neglected to provide a picture, or link to the product website, click here - http://www.daskeyboard.com/ Call me stupid, but I just don't see what the big deal is. I guess it's analagous to something we have in Canada known as "French immersion" - they put you into a French school where no one speaks (or is allowed to speak) English and supposedly you'll learn French much faster. This allows you to learn touch-typing faster? Dubious. In my opinion, all it's good for is showing off to non-touch-typists and maybe increasing the size of your e-peen slightly.