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This law already exists to "protect" people: https://us.etrade.com/e/t/prospectestation/help?id=1307030000#Learn While not exactly the same ($25k will clear you from the regs) it definitely does knock a dent in the scalpers.

Yesterday an update to Knight Capital Group's algorithmic trading software caused massive volume buys and sells, resulting in large price swings on the New York Stock Exchange. As a result, the NYSE canceled some of the trades...

So if I were to write an auto-trading script using the eTrade API, and as a result of a bug it made bizarre trades and I lost a lot of money, would the NYSE agree to cancel those trades? Didn't think so. Why should the big boys get a second bite at the apple? If you write an algorithm to do trading, then from the POV of the stock markets, that algorithm is you. (Just like the way user permissions work in Unix/Windows.)

Allowing mulligans and do-overs when well-connected firms make mistakes is only going to reinforce the perception that Wall Street is a casino rigged in favor of the rich.

The reason they cancelled Knight's trades was not to save Knight from its incompetence; it was because those large, erratic transactions were radically altering the price of securities for everyone, including small traders. Those cancellations did not, necessarily, save Knight any money.

Your eTrade script could only influenece the market that if it was able to buy or sell huge volumes, which it probably can't since you probably don't have that much money in your eTrade account.

Yesterday an update to Knight Capital Group's algorithmic trading software caused massive volume buys and sells, resulting in large price swings on the New York Stock Exchange. As a result, the NYSE canceled some of the trades...

So if I were to write an auto-trading script using the eTrade API, and as a result of a bug it made bizarre trades and I lost a lot of money, would the NYSE agree to cancel those trades? Didn't think so. Why should the big boys get a second bite at the apple? If you write an algorithm to do trading, then from the POV of the stock markets, that algorithm is you. (Just like the way user permissions work in Unix/Windows.)

Allowing mulligans and do-overs when well-connected firms make mistakes is only going to reinforce the perception that Wall Street is a casino rigged in favor of the rich.

Actually I've got an idea. What Linux or BSD distro are you running? Do you update sources to the bleeding edge every night and rebuild the system from sources? Do you just assume everything will work? If you do, you already know stuff breaks. If you don't, STFU and stop blaming the cautious among us.

IIRC E*Trade updates gentoo about three times a week, and QA's the entire system. (the website is an internal gentoo package)

Why would you have to set up a build system for a new patch? Shouldn't you be able to use the existing QA system and just add the patch to the beginning of the process and re run the existing build/QA/deploy process?

The problem is that many of the "cautious" types never set up a proper QA system and cannot rebuild their systems from scratch in an automated way, much less auto build, QA, and deploy.

Sorry for the rant, I've just seen too many messes and been around too many organizations that were unwilling to pay a penny for reproducibility.

Either you're buying an iPod Nano with your six years worth of savings, or you're buying it with the coinage you got stuck underneath your fingernail from breakfast

If it takes the average person 6 years to save money to buy an iPod then they're a fool. They could have saved more, opened an account with E*Trade and bought shares of Apple. Heck because Apple closed at $200.59 Friday they could have bought Walmart shares which closed Friday at $54.63 or Target which closed at $47.70. If those stock prices are too high then they could buy Macy's which closed at $16.97. Then after years of saving and investing they could become wealthy too. Just as the Chinese are doing.

Falcon

No, it's not a moot point. They are artificially raising the price that everyone has to pay for a stock. They literally see what you are going to buy, snatch it up before you can buy it, and then sell it to you at an increased price. How is this even a little fair?

If you're not setting limits then it's your own fault you're paying more. Every, or nearly every, online brokers allows people to set limits, price over which you will not pay or under which you will not sell. Even ETrade users can set limits, which ETrade calls Conditional orders.

Falcon

In the US trading done by an automated computer program is illegal

You'd better tell the SEC that and have them arrest all of the day traders who setup computers to automatically trade. Heck, you'd better have them arrest brokers too. It's possible to sign up with an online broker and do this. ETrade allows you to "pre-program your entry and exit strategies". With a number of different brokers it's possible to set limit orders, where stocks at buy or sold when the stock reaches a set price. If as a trader I believe X Inc's stock price will bottom out at one price, Y, I can place a limit order to buy the stock at Y. Then if I believe it will top out at Y+2 I can set another limit, this one to sell, at Y+2.

No, I haven't done it myself but my brother-in-law's a Certified Financial Planner, CFP, who has worked as a daytrader.

Falcon

ETrade has Digital Secure ID for "something you have"

Fwiw, a few points for perspective:

After the Tom-Tom purchase of TeleAtlas, Navteq almost doubled from July (wow!): http://clearstation.etrade.com/cgi-bin/details?Symbol=NVT&csize=10&PositionId=3072161788&Event=peek&period=d.

You hit a home run because you owned a severely undervalued stock. A real value was applied to their nearest competitor and investors compared their market caps along with a premium. It's standard recognition of price disparity that all investors look for.

As far as the shareholders go, anyone who bought at the last peak in early '06 (around $51) still managed a gain of over 50%.

Btw, now is usually a good time to sell and book the gain. There will be a slight discount to the buyout price which represents the risk of the deal falling through. For a percent or two it's usually not worth waiting for the arbitrage to settle out.

Congratulations on a great trade.

Even in the financial services industry, there's disagreement over what a "bank" is. Consider

• PayPal. Probably ought to be regulated as a bank, but is not.
• Western Union, a regulated money transfer service.
• ETrade Etrade is a brokerage house, but owns a bank on the side. Both operate under the "etrade.com" domain.
• Bank of America is a major bank which owns a brokerage house on the side, the reverse of ETrade.
• L. F Rothschild. Once one of the old-line banking houses of Europe, after about three mergers and breakups, they do offer financial services to the public, but they're not regulated as a bank.
• UBS Financial Services. In the US, they're a brokerage house, but in Switzerland, they're the Union Bank of Switzerland.
• Provident Credit Union A credit union performs the basic functions of a bank; it takes deposits and makes loans. But it's not a bank.
• Provident Funding, which sells mortgages, but doesn't take deposits. They're the tenth biggest lender in the US, but not a bank.
• Mellon Financial Corporation. They own banks, but are not, themselves, a bank.
• Stanbic Bank of Nigeria Are they real?

OK, who gets to be in ".bank"?

bank.etrade.com would tend to disagree with your blanket statement.

Obviously, when I said that E*Trade was not a bank, I meant the company which is a discount brokerage. There is also a separate company also called E*Trade, which is a bank.

The easiest way to explain this is in their own words: "E*TRADE Securities LLC and E*TRADE Bank are separate but affiliated companies."

The fact that they found it necessary (or preferable, whichever is the case) to establish two completely separate companies just underscores the fact that there are legal distinctions between different types of financial corporations.

So, once again, were we to use .bank, what domain name should E*TRADE Securities LLC use, given that it is not a bank but is a financial institution with account names that people would (and do) try to phish for?

Etrade for one:

https://us.etrade.com/e/t/welcome/securityguarante e

I'm no fan of how they do business(basically, the second they got big enough they started pissing on the small account customers that they built their business with), but E*Trade will give you a security dongle if you want:

https://us.etrade.com/e/t/jumppage/viewjumppage?Pa geName=cpg

Too hard to use and not portable.

How about SecurID, like e*trade.

"We looked at Apple, but that's owned in part by Microsoft."

Such bullshit. Can't people come up with a better lie...

http://ask.metafilter.com/mefi/30833
https://us.etrade.com/e/t/invest/analysis?content= 3&site=analysis&sym=AAPL&ah_flag=

Certainly if Akamai succeeds, it will set a precident that NBC will tap again, and that other broadcasters may join.

For those that have cashed out of Google, perhaps now's the time to invest in Akamai, if you haven't already http://clearstation.etrade.com/cgi-bin/details?Sym bol=AKAM&event=peek.

A good solution already exists to prevent keyloggers, etc. Actually some banks are rolling it out already - http://us.etrade.com/e/t/jumppage/viewjumppage?Pag eName=secureid_enter/. Works with any device, costs $25 once (which could probably be lowered) and provides actual security.

etradebank (https://us.etrade.com/e/t/microsite/custwelcome) offers them now.

https://us.etrade.com/e/t/invest/financials?conten t=2&site=financials&sym=MSFT&ah_flag= claims MSFT has $16B in cash. I really don't think they could pull it off. Blowing all of one's cash and short-term investments is not generally safe in what is still an uncertain market.

And yes, probably so. I'm only minimally interested in any of this, limited by the fact that I dislike capitalism ;)

Go ahead.

I bank with Washington Mutual, have a CapitolOne VISA card, and have my investments at E*Trade. I used Firefox exclusively and all above sites work flawlessly.

I remember a discussion here on Slashdot a couple of years ago about Mozilla, around the time of ver 0.9.2 or so. At the time CapitolOne didn't work in Mozilla and I had to use IE. A Mozilla developer posted a reply to my question about that, saying that it probably would never get fixed. Then, out of the blue, it started working. Probably around Mozilla 1.2 or so.

That's the only problem I've ever had with a financial institution with any Mozilla products.

I too got shoved to Ameritrade from Datek. Here are some alternatives:

E-Trade: In their FAQ they say that they support both FIFO and specific shares cost basis accounting. I do not have an investment account with them, so I'm not sure how this gets reported-to or modified-by you. Something to look into. They are more expensive than Ameritrade, but they pretty much offer every financial service around.

Fidilty: I don't particularly care for them, but looks like the provide cost basis info downloading.

Schwab probably offers this service as well, but couldn't find anything on their site

Most discount online brokerages will not offer this service, so you'll end up paying higher commissions or fees.

SCOX isn't someone else. It is an invalid stock listing code.

Yahoo

E*Trade

SCOXE is vaild. SCOX won't be used again for a while.

HURD is a rekindling of a Unix kernel. It's microkernel design basically brings us back to MACH/BSD, which .. oh.. hmm.. nextstations were what, 1989, 1990?

*yawn*


You see Apple yawning?

Now P/E ratios are a (perhaps small) part of the reason a share is purchased, and the ability to turn a profit is another portion of the reason. Profit is now important - viability is important, which is a good thing.

Lets look at M$. Their stock price has tanked since 2000 (allowing for their 2:1 split in 2003), and really been static since 2001. (see etrade. Their profit is very good, they are viable, but their dividends are anaemic. Their stock price is holding because people (IMHO) expect their share price to increase - that is they are purchased for capital growth.

Personally, I think they are going to clean up. I think Linux is a very long way from being ready for the desktop, no distro really gets it yet (shrugs on flame retardant suit, see below*). Pirate copies will decrease as they tighten licensing, revenue from desktop installs will increase strongly and desktop (OS + Office) is where they earn most of their dosh.

Dont expect them to be down and out yet.

(rant)
*Problems with Linux on the desktop:

why offer the average joe 6 different versions of apps - he just wants one

which distro is right for me - damn thing is getting fragmented.

"...and you just (sequence of line noise) to install the driver, then..."

not everyone thinks that source code is a good thing in their hands.

for all the ills of "c:\Program Files", and least I know where to install a program. In linux, this is not clear; is it /var, /opt, /usr, /usr/bin, /etc... In many cases the correct answer is all of the above. The answer also differs by distro. eeeewwwwwww
(/rant)

I think Etrade is one of the compromised sites.
On their site they say "A new security threat is currently circulating on the Internet. It is in the form of a Trojan Horse program called Download.Ject." you see this as an alert when you log in, but you can also see it without logging in. Take a look here

I know most people here are laughing at the thought of anyone stupid enough to buy into this IPO. But all it takes are a few ignorant or greedy fund managers to pump this stock. This is why I generally invest in blue-chip stocks or market index mutual funds over standard funds, which these days seem to be corrupt.

I think there's maybe six or seven financial investment companies that haven't been sanctioned by the SEC in the last two years for unethical activity. You can't trust the American media to even let you know when your investment company has been fined $200M for insider trading. The best source for really finding out how sleazy Wall Street is is through England's Financial Times, which doesn't pull any punches. If you have an IRA or any money in funds, keep a close eye on it. These rich fund managers are making a fortune off the pennies most working people scrounge up and think will be there for them in the future.

I never really dabbled much in the market until recently when I had a broker "friend" make recommendations for me. After I lost a bundle, I set up my own account on E*Trade and started doing my own investing - I beat my broker's ROI by 14% within six months. I'm pretty convinced these days most people in the financial community don't know anything, but that doesn't mean a bunch of people won't make money in this Gator IPO, but it will probably be at mutual fund holders' expense.

My advice to people is take control of your finances and invest in companies you believe in. Pull your money out of funds so you're not unwittingly financing SCO or Gator -- you'd be surprised how often you're in bed with the devil through your IRA.

Here is a chart of SCOX stock over the last 3 months. This makes me very happy, how 'bout you? :)

Yeah, I hadn't thought that through. I suppose a lot of shady or careless companies get their signing authority from someone else's root certificate.

So, a system like you describe exists!

This happens to me all the time. Apparently I'm good at design but terrible at research. :)

About your last point: why is the "one step removed from the CA" useful

I suppose I should clarify what I meant by that. If you look at the certificate path for a site like E*TRADE, everything is signed by Verisign even if it isn't done directly from their root certificate. I guess I'm saying that some users may not feel as confident about a certificate trusted by a friend of a friend that they've never met compared to a gigantic, "respectable" corporation. I suppose this perception could change if signed/encrypted email really takes off and more people get comfortable with the technology.

SCOX

Althought SCOX is manipulating their stock price in other ways(with trading between their own companies...).

After reading Jim Greer's post on Groklaw, it's pretty clear that SCO does NOT have a chance of winning this lawsuit, and is opening itself up to what would probably be an easy-to-win countersuit.

Stupid, evil fuckers.

Could someone with financial background tell us if this is related to SCOX waiting to report their earnings for another two weeks? Any correlation? How would these moves affect their reports?

SCO has more than likely received what is generally known as "Death Spiral Financing."

I've tried to find where you can buy options in SCOX to make a small buck when they go belly-up, but sites like Etrade displays no options available for SCOX (though other company symbols have options chains).

Anyone knows why?

/jeorgen

Another relatively uninteresting open letter

Another relatively uninteresting open letter

I'm not telling it like it ought to be. I'm telling it like it is. I've dabbled in options with three different discount brokers: Olde (a long time ago), Schwab, and E*Trade. Read the "Characteristics" pamphlet or ask your broker about being approved to trade options if you wish.

Here's E*Trade's Margin/Option Account Upgrade form. You will note in the margin section that it specifies three levels of options activity.

On page 2 of Schwab's 12-page form you will see four levels of options activity.

Ameritrade/Datek has the following (can't link to it):

"Currently, we offer the purchase and sale of long calls and puts, put writing, spreads and covered and uncovered call writing.*

Level I: Covered call writing.

Level II: Covered call writing and purchasing calls and puts.

Level III: Covered call writing, purchasing calls and puts, trading qualified spreads.

Level IV: Covered call writing, purchasing calls and puts, trading qualified spreads, uncovered call and put writing.**"

What is that Fortune 500 company smoking?

Each point is equal to 1/8 of a percent of interest on the loan amount

A point, also called a discount point, is in fact equal to 1% of the loan amount. Not sure how you get the 1/8 of a percent figure.

Idiot. It's a press release.

The link was to moneycentral. You can find the same article at Yahoo!, CBS Marketwatch, ClearStation and any other financial news site you care to read.

is Ebay profitable?

Yes, they had a profit of $90.4 million last year.

do they take a certain % of each sale or something?

Yes, among other things

There are, of course, games where you're allowed arbitrary computer assistance. eTrade is an example.

The new 2.0.1 version looks real nice. The jittery display while loading Slashdot is gone, it now understand E*Trade's protocol-less relative URLs, and no longer gets confused by localhost:10000. Give it a try.

Oh, and for those who wonder: yes, it does Java, Javascript and NS compatible plugins. And it handles those mazes of nested tables from hell perfectly well, unlike netscape.

As a dot-com sponsor, you become a partner in bringing renewed hope to a dot-com whose future is now in doubt. The special relationship you can develop with your dot-com is something you'll cherish forever.

I'm seriously interested in whether there is a website, or something that allows gambling on the outcome of all of this.

Yes, it's called E-Trade

Until I can log into E*Trade, I can't move over to Mozilla. And M14-crypto doesn't do E*Trade (for me).

The only other thing keeping me from making the switch is the lack of support for mail filters. I get too much email to have it all swamp my Inbox

The fundamental goal of E-Toys, like any corporation, is to make money for its shareholders. Have you seen what this action did to its stock price? See that peak at the left, that's when they filed suit. By Xmas, they were less than half that value, during a very busy and very profitable shopping season. By now, their share price is below their initial IPO value of $19.

There was no legal precident set, but hopefully we have set the meme in corporate minds that if you take frivolous action against people on the internet, you risk a Public Relations and Financial disaster. If the cause is just, we don't need the courts anymore.

Legal backing would have been nice, but the US Courts have an iffy record of upholding peoples rights in the face of high paid corporate lawyers, so unless the courts change I wouldn't count on their help.

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I'm most frustrated by sites who's servers don't even serve content to lynx; my emails to www.etrade.com met deaf ears.

Definitely! My entire family and I (several of my roomates even) do I lot of investing. About 60% of us do it over E*Trade or some other online brokerage. Quite a few have asked me about LinuxOne and I've been glad to rip on them thoroughly . It's not that I mind that they are selling someone elses distribution, its the fact that they are so blatantly scamming everyone, and not even doing any original work/innovation. It just bugs me. There is a line between distributing open source and outright BS. Anyway...my $.02 worth of ranting.

The Yahoo! Finance message boards are a good start (just search for LINX or LinuxOne to see where people are talking about it). An even better place is the message boards at E*TRADE or your stockbroker of choice. Stock investors are by nature a chatty bunch, and if they get tipped off in the right places, the information will soon make the word on the Street.

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