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"Stop writing malicious scripts."

1. Crack sites, get caught and punished
2. Get job as internet security consultant
3. PROFIT!

The whole "It takes a thief to catch a thief" thing. Hey, it worked for Kevin Mitnick ...

> Free Kevin!!!! someone had to say it

Well, obviously these days the term is Kevin Free, but still, it's kind of fun to go back and remember how effective that slogan was for getting the word out.

> Free Kevin!!!! someone had to say it

Well, obviously these days the term is Kevin Free, but still, it's kind of fun to go back and remember how effective that slogan was for getting the word out.

> Free Kevin!!!! someone had to say it

Well, obviously these days the term is Kevin Free, but still, it's kind of fun to go back and remember how effective that slogan was for getting the word out.

What does that make Kevin Mitnick?

Oh, yeah... I remember him. I forgot that guy after existed he was free and not a symbol of everything that was wrong with the legal system in the US.

the WSJ wields a stupid amount of power over a lot of folks with stock portfolios, who in turn knee-jerk their way to whatever thing they read next in the investment bible of choice.

Not only investors, but police as well. Remember Kevin?

You want someone with something to add? Hire an ex-NSA or ex-CIA to be your keynote. They knew more about "social engineering" during the world wars than Mitnick will ever know.

Okay, find one that will talk and we'll hire him. They're just not that common. Would they have more to say than Mitnick? Almost for sure, yes. But Mitnick will do for now, thank you very much.

Hackers share; it's part of the ethic for many. Government agents, even ex-agents, don't share that ethic. And the ones that do, you should be suspicious of, because it might be:
1) genuine
2) biased, based on revenge or bitterness to the ex-employer
3) completely false, misleading, entrapping, etc.

This "fear" was never held by those who were holding Mitnick, rather it was FUD spread by Mitnick's own lawyers and representatives as part of a campaign to villify the US govt for arresting Mitnick.

If you're interested in reading some actual transcripts rather than Eagle5596's opinions, here are court transcripts of what both sides were officially saying from 1996 to 2000.

Ask Kevin Mitnick what the judicial system can do about making the penalty fit the crime. Not only was he imprisoned, but they also have kept him from owning or even using a computer!

I disagree with the Feds reasons for prosecuting (read as persecuting) Kevin, but if someone really wants to make an example of these spammers there is a very ugly precedent already in place.

I know China's human rights policy sucks and all, but wasn't it the "good ol' US of A" that held someone without bail for over two years before sentencing, and worse, was held for over four and a half years without a bail hearing. As a matter of fact, he was even *denied* one!

By your rationale, we should start caning graffiti artists in the US because that would be "something of a deterrent."
It's not a matter of whether he is guilty or not, but whether he is going to get a punishment that will fit the crime.
I wouldn't be surprised if the media makes this out into another Kevin Mitnick scenario.

Mitnick vs. Markoff

I'm trying to come up some understanding of why Markoff would want to treat Mitnick in the manner that Mitnick says he was treated. I feel like I already know that Mitnick was treated poorly by the government, and that the punishment didn't fit the crime. What is more interesting is the attitude the two main characters of this story have towards each other.

Anyways, to the point I was trying to make. I was trying to dig up some of the articles Mitnick was referencing in his response. I ran across Mitnick's site, and Markoff's site.

It basically comes down to who's word to you trust, a convicted felon, or a reporter whos job it is to report the truth.

Here is Mitnick and Markoff battling it out on each other's web pages: http://www.takedown.com/bio/index.
html and http://www.kevinmitnick.com/news-release.html

[Round One]
Mitnick re 1994 NYT article:
Mr. Markoff labeled me, without justification, reason, or supporting evidence, as "cyberspace's most wanted," and as "one of the nation's most wanted computer criminals."

Markoff:
1981 Mitnick arrested for burglary.
1982 Mitnick gets 1 year probation.
1982 Mitnick arrested for hacking USC computers. 6 Months juvenile prison.
1987 Mitnick arrested. 3 years probation.
1988 Mitnick arrested. Convicted felony. 1 year sentence.
1994 $1Mil reward issued by CA DMV for Mitnick's arrest.

[Round Two]
Mitnick re 1994 NYT article:
" But to suggest without reason or proof, as did Mr. Markoff and the prosecutors in this case, that I had committed any type of fraud whatsoever, is simply untrue, and unsupported by the evidence.

Markoff:
1989 "Kevin pleaded guilty to one count of computer fraud and one count of possessing illegal long-distance access codes. "

Anyways, now that Mitnick is out, what else is there? How about these other computer intrusion cases at the department of
justice.

Let me show you Section 814 which modifies Title 18 of the US Code (criminal code?, IANAL):

"(4) by adding at the end the following:

`(B) by conduct described in clause (i), (ii), or (iii) of subparagraph (A), caused (or, in the case of an attempted offense, would, if completed, have caused)--

`(i) loss to 1 or more persons during any 1-year period (and, for purposes of an investigation, prosecution, or other proceeding brought by the United States only, loss resulting from a related course of conduct affecting 1 or more other protected computers) aggregating at least $5,000 in value;"

Am I misunderstanding this completely? To me it says that you are punishable under Title 18 as a terrorist if you compromise a system worth more than $5000. I contend that any computer system could be valued at more than $5000. For reference look at this Title 18 inditement. And the supporting information from the prosecutors which stated the losses suffered at $80m.

As for the rest, I almost agree with you on some points, but to me detention for no reason is not deportation. If they had just deported all of them for visa violations that would have been OK with me (probably not them or their families...). But they didn't, they locked them up with no warning and no charges after they voluntarily came in to "update their records".

I also share your concerns about GitMo. We have established guidelines for dealing with both criminal and military prisoners. Use the rules you have; don't make it up as you go along.

Let me show you Section 814 which modifies Title 18 of the US Code (criminal code?, IANAL):

"(4) by adding at the end the following:

`(B) by conduct described in clause (i), (ii), or (iii) of subparagraph (A), caused (or, in the case of an attempted offense, would, if completed, have caused)--

`(i) loss to 1 or more persons during any 1-year period (and, for purposes of an investigation, prosecution, or other proceeding brought by the United States only, loss resulting from a related course of conduct affecting 1 or more other protected computers) aggregating at least $5,000 in value;"

Am I misunderstanding this completely? To me it says that you are punishable under Title 18 as a terrorist if you compromise a system worth more than $5000. I contend that any computer system could be valued at more than $5000. For reference look at this Title 18 inditement. And the supporting information from the prosecutors which stated the losses suffered at $80m.

As for the rest, I almost agree with you on some points, but to me detention for no reason is not deportation. If they had just deported all of them for visa violations that would have been OK with me (probably not them or their families...). But they didn't, they locked them up with no warning and no charges after they voluntarily came in to "update their records".

I also share your concerns about GitMo. We have established guidelines for dealing with both criminal and military prisoners. Use the rules you have; don't make it up as you go along.

So the name Kevin Mitnick doesnt ring a bell, I guess...

The denial of a bail hearing was disturbing. But the chances that Mitnick was consequently denied bail are practically nil. Even if he did lose out on bail, the time he spent in detention counted towards the sentence of 22 months imposed in 1997 and his later sentence of 40+ mos. for other offenses, so no harm there either. In other words, he may have been wronged but the injury was small or negligible. The hearing is not valuable; the result is.

The Ninth Circuit affirmed the denial of a hearing in a summary order. IMHO I think they were almost certainly mistaken. Yet because of the nature of the case Mitnick would have a very difficult time showing the injury was anything more than pro forma, and the damages any more than nominal (e.g., $1).

I went and looked up federal bail rules under the Bail Reform Act of 1984. Section 3142(f) certainly appears to require a hearing, and the trial court simply appeared to have its mind made up. On the other hand, Mitnick has put forward nothing taht would get him out of 3142(e) even if the court believed him. That he was a flight risk was already right there on paper -- his criminal history -- and it would have been his onerous burden to rebut that.

I think this is a case where the system injured itself much more than this particular defendant, and I worry what that will mean for the next defendant. For individual miscarriages of justice I can think of many far, far worse than the possibility Mitnick served a few months too many on his third trip to prison.

From the Slashdot story: "Microsoft bashing aside..."

This kind of talk is nonsense! When someone says "Microsoft bashing", they are in effect apologizing for saying something negative about Microsoft. Apologizing is ridiculous. There are many negative things that can be honestly said about Microsoft. Apologizing by using the word "bashing" in the same paragraph as a legitimate complaint weakens the complaint, especially with people who are not technically knowledgeable.

In his November 15, 2002 Crypto-Gram newsletter, Bruce Schneier says "A well-written analysis of the major security/privacy/stability concerns of Windows XP" about this article: Windows XP Shows the Direction Microsoft is Going.

(Bruce Schneier wrote major books about computer security: Applied Cryptography and Secrets and Lies: Digital Security in a Networked World.)

The article contains only a small number of the legitimate complaints about Microsoft. I know because I wrote the article in my spare time, and there are many, many issues I have not had time to document.

Who kept Kevin Mitnick in prison? Who allows Microsoft to be abusive? It's us. It is technically knowledgeable people who allow these abuses. We could be effective in our complaints. Instead, we accept a double standard in which illogical people are allowed to be illogical, but we must be completely logical or we would lose our jobs.

If you are sure of a problem, be effective in talking about it! Get your thoughts in order. Make your communication clear. Get the job done! Write an advisory letter to a government leader. Mention your ideas everywhere a lot of people are listening.

If you prevent Microsoft from being abusive, you are being charitable toward Microsoft. The company has a self-destructive side; preventing Microsoft from being abusive helps you and I personally, helps the world, and helps Microsoft. Remember, Microsoft's abusiveness causes all technically knowledgeable people to look bad to those who are not technically knowledgeable. Those with no technical knowledge are not qualified to sort out the details. We all suffer.

If you know better than the people around you, that makes you the leader! Don't accept foolishness. Don't accept implied criticism; make the speaker state his or her opinions openly. Don't accept the terms "nerd" or "geek". Those terms are used by illogical people to weaken the power of the people who are knowledgeable.

Check out this Takedown review [kevinmitnick.com]

Remove the chain in that image awwready. It's 'Free'd.

Well, the source won't actually be available until next month, they say, so until everything is settled, let's see what will happen...

Besides, as in the case of Kevin Mitnick, we all absolutely need to keep the "FREE BLENDER" .pngs on the websites for years and years. I mean, just say, "who cares if the source was released last year, it won't truly be free until we Fight?" =)

Pray you never find out the hard way.

For the two people reading slashdot who've never heard of 2600 magazine, the url is
Complete with a realtime ticker of how long until he's a free man.

What bothers me the most, is that Federal Law Enforcement agencies have been going after individuals who crack corprate machines for years -- and hitting them with hard criminal charges (or in some cases, just throwing them in jail without clear or formal criminal charges).

Its clear that the federal government is zealous in its crusade to protect corporate America from "hackers". But who protects individuals from shady companies?

Its also clear that the company behind the trojan popups has engaged in criminal activity...but where the hell is the criminal investigation -- anyone being brought up on charges? At most -- we might see some fiducary damages awarded to someone (but not anyone here -- and not to anybody we know)...but if the feds can throw Kevin in jail -- I want the fuckers responsible for this kind of malicous marketing in jail too...(don't forget spammers either).


-Turkey

on charges that to this day remain unclear

They look quite clear on the indictment

I'm glad that they are bundling the newest issues of 2600 into this mad leet new blue box! Free Kevin!!!!!!

At first glance, one might attribute that statement to a computer-illiterate senator or to an incompetent journalist. You may be surprised, then, to find that this quote was from Ken Thompson in 1995. Yes, one of our own - a creator of the UNIX system and the command line we use every single day - condemned the antisocial activities of malicious computer users. Which leads me to ask: why aren't we listening, and where is our moral compass?

A few years ago, it was all the media's fault: the media gave much attention to antisocial criminals who happened to use computers. Nowadays, computer crime is rarely front-page news, especially in light of the recent terrorist attacks caused by the usual suspects. So what kind of notoriety, then, are these criminally insane geeks seeking? The fact of the matter is that the open source community here on Slashdot is not only tolerating illicit behavior; it is encouraging it. We are partially responsible for every Brian West, Eric Corley, Dmitri Skylarov, Ted Felten, Randal Schwartz,, and DrinkOrDie member. We are harboring criminals because we are glorifying their acts and lauding them for "civil disobedience." We are not unlike the Arabs who cheered as they watched the Twin Towers collapse on their (banned) TV sets. And like those ungrateful Arabs, we owe our prosperity to the American government and the capitalist society that so many users here seem to despise. We have become our own enemy.

We, as a community, need to stop tolerating this behavior. Instead of encouraging people like Jon Johansen by sending money to the EFF to help them keep these ingrates' lilly white asses out of jail, we need to send a strong message that computer crime is not consistent with our ethical standards. We need to lead by example - log off of Gnutella, start paying for software (even Windows), stop cracking your DVDs and eBooks "for fun," and start acting like an upstanding citizen. It is only then that the powers that be will start taking us seriously and repeal the DMCA/SSSCA/PATRIOT legislation, and start giving us our rights back. It is crystal clear that we will not get our rights back a moment before we get out of the business of producing criminals, and the first step is to stop empathizing with them.

freebsd guy

You can't steal something by making a copy of it.

Try and tell that to Kevin

If you want to know how far the government is willing to go to "protect" us from these cyber-criminals, check out the Kevin Mitnick case. He was held in pre-trial detention for four years without a bail hearing.

I know it's l4m3 to talk about Kevin Mitnick and I'll get modded down for it, but even if you're with the "He stole millions of dollars by copying source code" camp you still have to agree that being held without a bail hearing for four years is a bit fishy.

Now it's starting to happen to a legitimate software developer. Who's next...
--

Which of our favorite uber-hackers has been released from prison within the last year that might want to rebel against the establishment by pulling off something so dasterdly? Could it be.. hmm.. oh I don't know.. maybe.. hmm.. THIS GUY? He DID steal source code in his previous days. ;-)

almost truely un-crackable and therefore un-litigatable..

In Kevin Mitnick's case, having his data encrypted meant the government was allowed to keep his data indefinitely, on the theory that it might contain illegal/contraband content. Even though the content might have exonerated Mitnick and been used in his defense, the judge presiding over the government's case would not allow Mitnick to access it. In fact, Mitnick himself was not allowed to personally access any of the computer data used as evidence against him in the case -- only Mitnick's attorney and expert witness were allowed to at an off-site location under government supervision. Read that again: Mitnick was not allowed to review the evidence the government had against him.

You can read the court transcript here:
http://www.kevinmitn ick .com/trans052098.html#legal_question

--

I don't justify what Mitnick did, but when I hear about this case, I am reminded of the ancient Roman punishment "aqua et igni interdictus" ("to be denied water and fire", a form of ostracism that was more common in Greece, but I'll be damned if I can remember the Greek name for it)

In under six months, we'll be in the 21st century (no flames, we're all sick of that debate, and either way you look at it, the statement is true) and Mitnick's parole conditions will pass into history as a testament to our irrationality.

If a mechanic with several DUIs plows into a crowd and kills several people, we may take away his license (to prevent further deaths) and sentence him to prison (for his reckless disregard, etc.), but we don't prevent him from ever working on cars, buying or selling cars, being a paid anti- drunk driving activist, or examining the car being used as evidence against him during his trial. [the link above includes many articles about the unusual handling of his case]

We wouldn't do such things even if he was a vehicular serial killer. I think using a car or computer are roughly comparable in the coming decades. many might argue that the computer would be even more omnipresent and valuable.

Are we so messed up that the courts are actually willing to openly state that corporate damages and evading the police are worse crimes than sniffing out than several human lives?

MITNICK IS NOT ON PAROLE!

he is on probation, with credit for time served pursant to these conditions.

parole is something different entirely.

as far as it goes, Mitnick served something like six months in minimum, which *completed* his time in. if he violates probabtion, they take away his time served and plop him back in Lombardo.

No prob. I just read up on the mitnick case to figure out what happened exactly. I haven't read about it in a while. It looks like you're right about the cell phone thing. He was convicted on that one it looks like, but I'm not sure if he got prison for it. He's been convicted several times for various things, but hasn't spent more than a couple years in jail altogether until this last time, and wasn't serving a sentence when he was accused of breaking into Shimomura's system. (although I think he may have been on probation)

It's obvious that he's no saint, but it's equally obvious that the prosecution completely disregarded his rights during the course of the case. They wouldn't reveal the evidence against him or the damage amounts among other things. They also wouldn't explain why he was so dangerous that he had to be put in solitary confinement until he waived his right to a preliminary hearing. There were other offenses against him as well. It's scary that they got away with this kind of stuff. The 6 corps that had been hacked later submitted letters declaring that the "losses suffered were not material or non-existant", but the prosecution never turned these letters over to Kevin's attorney. Meanwhile, the prosecution and the press were running stories about Kevin costing these corps billions.. later reduced to millions.

Here's a few links in case you're curious.

http://www.kevinmitnick.com/news-04269 9.html

http://www.kevinmitnick.com/news-05289 9.html

ht tp://x30.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=566653614&CONTEXT=9 48113995.419102759&hitnum=72

No prob. I just read up on the mitnick case to figure out what happened exactly. I haven't read about it in a while. It looks like you're right about the cell phone thing. He was convicted on that one it looks like, but I'm not sure if he got prison for it. He's been convicted several times for various things, but hasn't spent more than a couple years in jail altogether until this last time, and wasn't serving a sentence when he was accused of breaking into Shimomura's system. (although I think he may have been on probation)

It's obvious that he's no saint, but it's equally obvious that the prosecution completely disregarded his rights during the course of the case. They wouldn't reveal the evidence against him or the damage amounts among other things. They also wouldn't explain why he was so dangerous that he had to be put in solitary confinement until he waived his right to a preliminary hearing. There were other offenses against him as well. It's scary that they got away with this kind of stuff. The 6 corps that had been hacked later submitted letters declaring that the "losses suffered were not material or non-existant", but the prosecution never turned these letters over to Kevin's attorney. Meanwhile, the prosecution and the press were running stories about Kevin costing these corps billions.. later reduced to millions.

Here's a few links in case you're curious.

http://www.kevinmitnick.com/news-04269 9.html

http://www.kevinmitnick.com/news-05289 9.html

ht tp://x30.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=566653614&CONTEXT=9 48113995.419102759&hitnum=72

I'm sure kevin mitnick will be pleased to hear this.

I just checked KevinMitnick.com to see how many more hours/minutes till his release. According to the clock he has a whole YEAR! Poor guy.. ;)

He did not commit a crime. The law was applied retro-actively in direct violation of the constitution of the United States of America (ex post facto). He was held without charge or due process. Then the government decided to sleep with Motorola and a bunch of other big companies to trump up the amount of "damage" done by Kevin. What Kevin did does not match the jail time he has received. This was a political punishment, not justice. http://www.2600.com/ http://www.kevinmitnick.com/home.html

Since it seems like 90% of the replies are among the lines of "Oh no! He can't own a digital watch! Where has happened to the Constitution?" I figured I'd do some research and find out the facts.

This is an excerpt from the Petition For Writ of Ceratori in this case (the Free Kevin Mitnick site is citing this as "evidence" of cruel and unusual punishment):

A. Absent prior express written approval from the Probation Officer, the Petitioner shall not possess or use, for any purpose, the following:

1. any computer hardware equipment;

2. any computer software programs;

3. modems;

4. any computer related peripheral or support equipment;

5. portable laptop computer, 'personal information assistants,' and derivatives;

6. cellular telephones;

7. televisions or other instruments of communication equipped with on-line, internet, world-wide web or other computer network access;

8. any other electronic equipment, presently available or new technology that becomes available, that can be converted to or has as its function the ability to act as a computer system or to access a computer system, computer network or telecommunications network (except defendant may possess a 'land line' telephone);

B. The defendant shall not be employed in or perform services for any entity engaged in the computer, computer software, or telecommunications business and shall not be employed in any capacity wherein he has access to computers or computer related equipment or software;

C. The defendant shall not access computers, computer networks or other forms of wireless communications himself or through third parties;

D. The defendant shall not acts as a consultant or advisor to individuals or groups engaged in any computer related activity;

E. The defendant shall not acquire or possess any computer codes (including computer passwords), cellular phone access codes or other access devices that enable the defendant to use, acquire, exchange or alter information in a computer or telecommunications database system;

F. The defendant shall not use any data encryption device, program or technique for computers;

G. The defendant shall not alter or possess any altered telephone, telephone equipment or any other communications related equipment.

Jay (=

Since it seems like 90% of the replies are among the lines of "Oh no! He can't own a digital watch! Where has happened to the Constitution?" I figured I'd do some research and find out the facts.

This is an excerpt from the Petition For Writ of Ceratori in this case (the Free Kevin Mitnick site is citing this as "evidence" of cruel and unusual punishment):

A. Absent prior express written approval from the Probation Officer, the Petitioner shall not possess or use, for any purpose, the following:

1. any computer hardware equipment;

2. any computer software programs;

3. modems;

4. any computer related peripheral or support equipment;

5. portable laptop computer, 'personal information assistants,' and derivatives;

6. cellular telephones;

7. televisions or other instruments of communication equipped with on-line, internet, world-wide web or other computer network access;

8. any other electronic equipment, presently available or new technology that becomes available, that can be converted to or has as its function the ability to act as a computer system or to access a computer system, computer network or telecommunications network (except defendant may possess a 'land line' telephone);

B. The defendant shall not be employed in or perform services for any entity engaged in the computer, computer software, or telecommunications business and shall not be employed in any capacity wherein he has access to computers or computer related equipment or software;

C. The defendant shall not access computers, computer networks or other forms of wireless communications himself or through third parties;

D. The defendant shall not acts as a consultant or advisor to individuals or groups engaged in any computer related activity;

E. The defendant shall not acquire or possess any computer codes (including computer passwords), cellular phone access codes or other access devices that enable the defendant to use, acquire, exchange or alter information in a computer or telecommunications database system;

F. The defendant shall not use any data encryption device, program or technique for computers;

G. The defendant shall not alter or possess any altered telephone, telephone equipment or any other communications related equipment.

Jay (=

1. Let us presume that he has done everything convicted of. This is now a safe assumption solely because he has now been (however unjustly) convicted. Under the terms of his release, he will not be able to (and this is the defense's list): "[A]ctivities in which the Petitioner is prohibited from engaging are:
-sending a letter a Senator via e-mail or using a word processor;
-playing a video arcade game;
-calling his family on a cellular telephone;
-working as a computer printer repairman;
-writing any type of computer software program (even using merely a pen and paper)
-accessing a public library's computerized card catalog."

2. Regardless of how you feel about the trial, surely it must strike you as rather odd that he was not allowed to review the evidence against him. (see the bottom of here) This is something all of us are allowed to do, as he should have been. Mind you, printing all this out and him reading it would be impossible, simply because most of the data is in a format that is best (or only) accessible on a computer. Even printing it would have taken weeks of valuable time.

3. Again, since he was convicted of all this bad-ass stealing from major companies, to the tune of multi-multi-million dollars, why was this loss not reported to shareholders? I happen to own both Sun and Motorola stock, and even did so at the time of the "crime," and my annual reports listed nothing of the sort. Sun even made a nice tidy profit from that year, with no major losses or charges. Motorola made an average profit and took a charge for the forming of their (sinking badly) Iridium group.

So, any satisfactory answers to these questions?

1. Let us presume that he has done everything convicted of. This is now a safe assumption solely because he has now been (however unjustly) convicted. Under the terms of his release, he will not be able to (and this is the defense's list): "[A]ctivities in which the Petitioner is prohibited from engaging are:
-sending a letter a Senator via e-mail or using a word processor;
-playing a video arcade game;
-calling his family on a cellular telephone;
-working as a computer printer repairman;
-writing any type of computer software program (even using merely a pen and paper)
-accessing a public library's computerized card catalog."

2. Regardless of how you feel about the trial, surely it must strike you as rather odd that he was not allowed to review the evidence against him. (see the bottom of here) This is something all of us are allowed to do, as he should have been. Mind you, printing all this out and him reading it would be impossible, simply because most of the data is in a format that is best (or only) accessible on a computer. Even printing it would have taken weeks of valuable time.

3. Again, since he was convicted of all this bad-ass stealing from major companies, to the tune of multi-multi-million dollars, why was this loss not reported to shareholders? I happen to own both Sun and Motorola stock, and even did so at the time of the "crime," and my annual reports listed nothing of the sort. Sun even made a nice tidy profit from that year, with no major losses or charges. Motorola made an average profit and took a charge for the forming of their (sinking badly) Iridium group.

So, any satisfactory answers to these questions?

I've seen it. It was on a while ago on TNT, I guess they just didn't tell anyone. It's awfull. Especially the corny ending with Bill Gates on a giant screen saying to Steve Jobs "looks like we will working together..." and how many years it skips at the end. A little before it ends you see Steve and Bill arguing about Xerox, where they both just whine... blah blah blah..... It's target audience is luddites, I just MiSTified the whole thing while it was going on.
--
Four years in jail
No Trial, No Bail
*** FREE KEVIN ***

the issue I have with the way kevin mitnick has been treated is that so far he's spent a lot of time in jail and hasn't had a trial or even a bail hearing, and has had lots and lots of motions for things denied, many times without explanation from the court. script-kiddie, cracker, or whathaveyou, no one deserves to be treated like that. 2600 has been doing a fairly good job of keeping kevinmitnick.com updated on a regular basis, and they've presented as many facts as they've been able to dig up. I'm sure they would be willing to accept opposing sides to the story.

Current (and expected future) uses of Number Sieve factorization (currently, the General Number Sieve is most efficient) are composed of two parts: the sieving of factors, and then solving a matrix of all the possible factoring equations.

Ugh. I tried to follow how the General Number Field Sieve worked by reading some lecture notes by the guy who invented it. After the first page of the introduction, I just lost it. I wasn't that confused at the quantum computing lectures I went to.

What courses do I need to take in order to understand how it works? Some more linear algebra and a helluva lot more math in general?
--
Four years in jail
No Trial, No Bail
*** FREE KEVIN ***

It's good to see all of the discussion, now lets take the next step.

In my old high school there was a group of students, called SHOP, which provided alternative activites for high school kids to do instead of getting drunk with the jocks. They had open discussions once a month where people could talk about what ever was bothering them, and they had activites that benifited the society around them as well as just fun things to do. It was the only time I felt comfortable in high school, and while SHOP had its problems, it was a good experiance.

Just a suggestion.

Others I have heard on /.

-On-line resources (I was planing to start something this summer as a reaction to a different tragedy a while ago)
-A general strike (A Good Thing)
-Letter writting
-Walk-out
-confronting the oppresors as a group(An injury to one is an injury to all)
-Joining the PTA (not really effective, plus it only fights for its own interests, not yours)

While these ideas vary in usefullness, some are not only for High School, but usefull throughout life and the fight for true liberty. Remember, only you can affect change, don't expect anyone else to do it for you.

oh, and you forgot www.infoshop.org
--
Four years in jail
No Trial, No Bail
*** FREE KEVIN ***

>America is run by the freaks, not the middlemen.

bzzt, America is run by capitalist pigs.

>Is Bill Clinton normal? Was Newt?

As normal as the football quarterback whose lawyer father makes sure his son never gets in to trouble

>How about out pop-music stars?

So you think pop-music stars run America? Ok, I sort of see that. Look at what they do for the people living in America... nothing.

>Bill Gates?

Bill Gates is a fucking looser, imo. Stealing and hoarding will make you rich. If he is your hero, go be a thief.

>We need the middle men to get all that work done.

It is the worker that supports this country the most. They do the labor and the capitalist bosses benifit.

>Everything left for us is part of the spicy sauce of life.

while we live off of others hard work. No thanks.
Fight against 'a good days pay for a good days work' and for a world without bosses.

You'll see me out on the streets of DC on May 1st.
--
Four years in jail
No Trial, No Bail
*** FREE KEVIN ***

There is an awful lot of you. Sometimes more then the oppressors. Be strong. Organize. Do something to stop what is happening to you, because no one else will.

Suggestions:

pettition, write to local media, start local newspapers, approach the principle (board of ed., PTA), start/join a club whose goal is to address these grivances, walkout, if there is enough of you confront the people abusing you, just something to help your situation.
--
Four years in jail
No Trial, No Bail
*** FREE KEVIN ***

If the thumbtacks are being used to hurt people, they must be destroyed. My old high school rule book has it in there somewhere.... :)

Same with duct tape, if it is being used for evil, it is evil and must be destroyed
--
Four years in jail
No Trial, No Bail
*** FREE KEVIN ***

This is called a general strike. Probably the most powerful non-violent form of expression there is. Try iww.org, they have been advocating the general strike for a long, long time.
--
Four years in jail
No Trial, No Bail
*** FREE KEVIN ***

An inanimate object has no inherant value. It is only worth what it is used for. If its purpose is evil, "take it out."
--
Four years in jail
No Trial, No Bail
*** FREE KEVIN ***

I haven't heard that one. As far as I've seen, he has been awaiting trial. Here's a link to his indictment:

http://www.kevinmitnick.com/indictment.ht ml

He has apparently spent the entire time behind bars trying to prepare a defense. What other guilty plea are you referring to?

if I had the chance. With a the bullshit going against me, there is no way I would stay that long in jail unless I had to. Wouldn't matter to me if I was innocent or not, I would have plead guilty as soon as I could just to get it all over with as fast as possible. Being locked away doesn't appeal to me.

I wonder what Kevin is going to do for his state case once this is over... State prisons are a worse place then federal ones.
--
Four years in jail
No Trial, No Bail
*** FREE KEVIN ***