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Quietized workstation: endpcnoise.com

My current laptop is a Dell core 2 inspirion, a nice generic laptop, however Dell seems to have ended its Linux preinstall program. The nice thing about Dell was the price. If I needed a new laptop today I might get one of these: linuxcertified.com

No doubt we're seeing the effects of an active, successful, and most probably illegal campaign by Microsoft to drive a wedge between Canonical and the PC vendors. So the Right Thing to Do is send your money to specialty vendors like above who Microsoft can't push around.

Have you looked into some of the Linux computer suppliers? eg, Zareason, System 76, LinuxCertified, and EmperorLinux

If I'm not mistaken, some people have been able to get the Windows license fee dropped from their purchase. I don't know how much trouble it is to do that though.

Maybe someone else can comment on that.

Yeah, it would be good to get it from a supplier who has actually heard of Linux. So System 76, or maybe Emperor Linux or The Linux Laptop or Linux-Certified or ZaReason etc.

Some devices just cannot be bought without MS Windows installed on them. I could not source a new laptop without it, for instance.

Really? I don't know that you tried very hard.

It's pretty simple. Hardware vendors make sure their hardware works with Windows. Most hardware vendors don't care whether it's easy for people to make their consumer hardware work on Linux.

So what do you do? You do exactly what Windows consumers do. You buy your system from a system builder, only one that certifies their systems for Linux, i.e. you pay money for someone to make sure that your flavor of Linux works on your hardware, so that you don't have to do it yourself. These aren't old systems. They are current gen systems.

I don't have any affiliation with any of these vendors but it was easy to find them:
http://www.linuxcertified.com/linux_laptops.html
http://www.system76.com/
http://www.emperorlinux.com/

And people expect an average computer user to want to use Linux when they have to make sure their kernel is compiled right to do basic power management?

I expect an "average" computer user to buy a laptop with its OS pre-installed. Like the offerings here and here. And I expect the vendors to proved a kernel compiled with the right options for power management.

You are not looking hard enough. Please check at least the last link.

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/linux_3x?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

My GOD, there's three on one page.

And some more:

http://system76.com/index.php?cPath=28

These damned things are everywhere:

http://www.linuxcertified.com/linux-laptop-lctp.html

http://www.thelinuxlaptop.com/products_new.php

Linuxcertified is still selling Linux Thinkpads with Fedora, Ubuntu or SUSE Linux distributions. http://www.linuxcertified.com/linux-laptop-lctp.html They have 3 models. Looks lime Lenovo no longer sells Linux units directly but are selling through partners and VARs.

http://www.linuxcertified.com/linux_laptops.html

HP is rumored to ship a Linux laptop.

Here's a decent list that's a bit dated, but probably helpful http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168

Finally, blow away that Microsoft partition and install it yourself!

That's exactly why you usually don't call them "laptop" or "notebook", but "desktop replacement".

Actually, my full-featured laptop is much smaller than what most people refer to as a "desktop replacement". They even call it "ultra-portable" - I call that hogwash, it's over a pound heavier than my Vaio, thicker by a centimeter, and significantly larger in footprint.

I guess I've been spoiled by my old Vaio and have high standards of portability - some people would my new box a subnotebook, I call it a little bigger than I'd like.

how about this

processor as high as 2.33 ghz core2 duo with 4mb cache
17" 1680x1050 display
512mb vram
5.1ch surround audio

etc etc.

Orderable pre-loaded with your distro of choice.

not a bad machine, If I weren't just now re-examining kubuntu I'd snatch it up.

The keyboard is really difficult to use, and the lack of power from the USB port means you need a powered hub to use an external keyboard.

Curious - I have a an C3000 and have no trouble using a folding USB keyboard with it, without a hub.

Yes, the built-in keyboard is tiny, but you can't get a bigger one without sacrificing portability. I think it's quite good for its size. (And it's certainly bigger and easier to use than the one on my Centro!)

The Asus Eee looks nifty but would fit a different niche - I wouldn't mind having something bigger than my Zaurus but smaller than my notebook. But I'm really hoping its success will drive Linux on to handheld UMPC-class devices.

Ditto. I'll buy a linux pre-loaded laptop before I get Vista.

> > When did the word "only" start applying to 17" screens?

>2002

Odd that, since my 15" Viewsonic LCD was made in 2002. Must have been right before this great change.

I bought my laptop just this year, and it has a screen much smaller than 17 inches. And 15 inch monitors are still on the market.

I have a Compaq Presario V2617LA happily running Fedora 5.

However, my keyboard/touchpad died a month ago and I found out through HP's regional support that the warranty is only valid if you use the original OS that comes with the notebook (in my case, it was XP home edition).

Up until now, I had always purchased notebooks using tuxmobil.org as a guide (I even contributed a page for this particular machine), but now that Dell sells notebooks with Ubuntu and that there are other providers that sell machines with GNU/Linux AND respect their warranty, I'm never buying from a brand that screws me as a customer, EVER.

If you still have your windows partition you're probably covered, but I just wanted to get the word out to anyone considering buying a notebook to use with GNU/Linux. Please go to the providers that officially support any distribution.

This is not FUD.

I bought my computer through an official retailer in Montevideo, Uruguay. My machine has been in HP/Compaq's official support for this country since jun 7 and now their answer is that the notebook is no longer produced and that there are no spare parts to replace the keyboard/touchpad (all this on a machine I purchased 9 months ago and would still be on warranty if it wasn't for the fact that I use GNU/Linux). The support company is CNS

Here are a couple of places you can start:

ubuntu on dell

linux certified laptops

I'm glad Dell is selling Ubuntu computers, but yeah, I agree, they have a lot of things to rethink. In the meantime, you should support one of several other companies that sell computers with Linux preinstalled. I recommend, LinuxCertified. Their laptops are definitely aimed at business people. I bought one of the Ultra Portable, LC2100DC models, and it's the best computer I've ever owned: wide screen, weighs 4 lbs, everything works out of the box, and mostly without proprietary drivers including wireless, 3 USB ports, DVD/CD-R drive, a quick little core 2 duo processor, and the whole things costs $900 (it's a little extra with the wireless card.) Plus, you have the option of having Ubuntu preinstalled, or if you like, Fedora Core, instead.

I'm glad Dell is selling Ubuntu computers, but yeah, I agree, they have a lot of things to rethink. In the meantime, you should support one of several other companies that sell computers with Linux preinstalled. I recommend, LinuxCertified. Their laptops are definitely aimed at business people. I bought one of the Ultra Portable, LC2100DC models, and it's the best computer I've ever owned: wide screen, weighs 4 lbs, everything works out of the box, and mostly without proprietary drivers including wireless, 3 USB ports, DVD/CD-R drive, a quick little core 2 duo processor, and the whole things costs $900 (it's a little extra with the wireless card.) Plus, you have the option of having Ubuntu preinstalled, or if you like, Fedora Core, instead.

LinuxCertified sells laptops with various Linux distros preloaded and fully supported.

The reason this matters is that there are no Linux laptops available from any vendor bigger than a garage shop.

Yes, there's Linux Certified, in the same building with Mr. Chau's Chinese Fast Food in San Jose. And there's System76, whose address is a Pak Mail in Denver.

If you're selling hardware that may have to be maintained or replaced, you need to be bigger than that to play.

Of course, once upon a time there was VA Linux, but we know what happened to them.

I've been trying to buy a Linux laptop. Unsuccessfully. I'm looking for a low-end system, just enough to give presentations and access systems remotely. My main systems are desktops. I don't need to be able to play movies. I don't need dual boot. I don't need much compute power or a big screen. I do need WiFi capability to public access points, and VGA output to projectors. One would think this would be easy.

So first I try Fry's, which used to have Linux machines on sale. No more. Everything is Windows or Mac. I try Best Buy. No joy, even after a talk with the Geek Squad guy.

Online, we have LinuxCertified. No obvious business address on the web site, always a bad sign, and a criminal offense in California. Low-grade domain-only SSL cert. Phone number not answered during working hours. Not looking good.

There's an article about a $498 Linux laptop from WalMart, but it's been discontinued. WalMart no longer seems to have any Linux laptops.

There's EmperorLinux, but their laptops start at $1145 and go up to $6000. Their $1145 machine is a Dell 520, which Dell sells for $599. $400 extra for Linux?

So now we're down to the blogger/enthusiast sites. One guy has a list of Linux laptop vendors. Going down the list, it doesn't look good. The HP link is dead. The Dell link leads to Dell's French site, and even that's selling only Windows laptops.

But some of the links aren't dead. MGE PC Online will actually sell a Linux laptop. It's a bit overpriced; $805 for the cheapest Celeron machine. But you get Red Hat Fedora preloaded. ShopRCubed has Linux laptops that start at $840. Their advertising is deceptive; they advertise a model with "Intel Dual Core Technology" for $799, but in fact that's the price with an Intel Celeron. Adding WiFi and a Ubuntu install brings you up to $840.

There's American Computer, or ACC PC, or CompAmerica, or whatever. Very low base prices, but they don't install Linux; they just sell you a bare machine and claim "Also Certified to run the Linux Operating System."

Let's try Google's "Froogle" system. There we get some Linux laptops. There's a discontinued Acer model that's out of stock. There's a Pentium II laptop on eBay for $80. ("Boots Linux; some keys don't work") Nothing useful there.

Face it. There are no major commercial vendors of Linux laptops any more. There are a few resellers buying machines, adding Linux, and increasing the price. That's it.

Please do. I've looked long and hard for laptop OEMs and have only found a precious few. (Emperor Linux and Linux Certified come to mind, but I like to shop around.)

Principle? No way. If he cared about principle, he wouldn't be buying a Dell laptop which came preinstalled with Windows, and then demand a refund. He would buy a computer with Linux preinstalled, or buy a computer with no OS at all and then install Linux on it. That there are no Linux laptops available is a myth: see list at bottom of message. The best way to support Linux is to support Linux laptop builders, not to throw more money at Dell. Maybe the Dells are cheaper. Fine, then buy the Dell and throw the Windows away. I think it's ridiculous to buy the Dell and demand refunds. I don't smoke and have no gizmos, so I demand that Honda give me a refund for the cigarette lighter in the car. I don't need his and hers sinks, so I demand the home builder give me a refund for one sink in the bathroom. I don't need the knives in the silverware set I just bought, so I demand a refund from Oneida. I don't need the Print Screen or SysRq buttons on the keyboard, so I demand a refund for them. Ridiculous.

http://www.linuxcertified.com/
http://www.emperorlinux.com/
http://www.shoprcubed.com/
http://www.kc-computers.com/

"At the current time however, there really isn't any way to build your own laptop...you have to buy a prebuilt one from a manufacturer, most of which are going to include Windows."

Apparently slashdot is stuck in a timewarp. Did you know you still have to compile your own kernel to get hardware to work?

Which laptop maker need not be complained to? Is there a commodity laptop maker that 1. already cooperates with the free software community and 2. runs more than a token advertising campaign? Is LC2000 (found by google "linux laptop", clicking the first result, then clicking a banner) any good?

Given the rise of open source, I would certainly consider a Linux Certification

If you are around San Francisco bay area, then a training outfit that I very much recommend is LinuxCertified (http://www.linuxcertified.com). I attended a "bootcamp" style class (Linux system administration) there few months ago and it was by far the most helpful IT class that I have attended. I found the training to be very practical in nature. It was distro independent (although they used Fedora during the class itself). Also, I would recommend having a shelf full of oreilly books... :)

I have a LinuxCertified laptop which I have owned for a while and have been very happy with. Wireless performance is great, and hardware is very linux friendly.

Sure:

http://www.shoprcubed.com/
http://system76.com/index.php/cPath/1?gclid=CLK_3M ynp4YCFRhWUAodYwQcCA/
http://www.linuxcertified.com/linux_laptops.html/
http://xtops.de/thinkpad_linux_preinstalled.html/

Hopefully you'll see why I picked the first one.

http://linuxcertified.com/linux_laptops.html

I am one of these switchers as well. I am a gamer and developer, and had been a long term Apple user. But high cost of Apple and not a whole lot of support finally got to me. I recently ordered a LinuxCertified LC2440N laptop pre-loaded with Ubuntu. I have to say, I was blown away with this change - it really felt like an "upgrade". My previous experience (about two years ago) with Linux was not that good. But Ubuntu seems to have changed all of this. Ubuntu (and the laptop) came fully working - with all the applications I needed, wireless etc. Plus the Ubuntu user forums are probably the best I have seen. I am not surprised about this switch at all.

Dont forget about System 76. And also Linux Certified.

Unfortunately volumes are still not there when it comes to commoditized Linux desktops. Most Linux desktops are still somewhat custom, with custom distro, custom support requirements etc. I think for a while Linux desktops and laptops will be mostly provided by boutique Linux expertise houses like Linuxcertified.

Here you go.

There are plenty of other companies that sell Linux an (sic) no-OS machines.

http://www.addonshop.com/
http://www.emperorlinux.com/
http://www.ibexpc.com/
http://www.koobox.com/
http://www.linare.com/
http://www.linspire.com/
http://www.linuxcertified.com/
http://www.linuxsyscorp.com/
http://www.microtelpc.com/
http://www.outpost.com/
http://shoprcubed.com/
http://www.sub300.com/
http://www.systemax.com/divisions.htm
http://www.walmart.com/
http://tuxmobil.org/reseller.html
http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed
http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html
http://tuxmobil.org/ (general information)

Slashdot's lameness filter is actually pretty... well... lame. Defeating it is usually as easy as adding more text. You know, like this sentence. :-)

There are plenty of other companies that sell Linux an no-OS machines. http://www.addonshop.com/ http://www.emperorlinux.com/ http://www.ibexpc.com/ http://www.koobox.com/ http://www.linare.com/ http://www.linspire.com/ http://www.linuxcertified.com/ http://www.linuxsyscorp.com/ http://www.microtelpc.com/ http://www.outpost.com/ http://shoprcubed.com/ http://www.sub300.com/ http://www.systemax.com/divisions.htm http://www.walmart.com/ http://tuxmobil.org/reseller.html http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html http://tuxmobil.org/ (general information)

http://www.addonshop.com/ http://www.emperorlinux.com/ http://www.ibexpc.com/ http://www.koobox.com/ http://www.linare.com/ http://www.linspire.com/ http://www.linuxcertified.com/ http://www.linuxsyscorp.com/ http://www.microtelpc.com/ http://www.outpost.com/ http://shoprcubed.com/ http://www.sub300.com/ http://www.systemax.com/divisions.htm http://www.walmart.com/ http://tuxmobil.org/reseller.html http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html http://tuxmobil.org/ (general information) No OS (Sabio made by Quanta, like Dell-latitudes) http://www.avadirect.com/ http://www.asimobile.com/ http://www.powernotebooks.com/

Wait a minute. Why does he care whether a mom and pop store can get volume licensing on windows if he doesn't want to pay for windows anyway?

That's the point, what relevance is volume licensing to the fact that he can indeed buy a whole machine without windows and without windows tax.

This may be news to you but not everybody is comfortable paying monopoly rent, I defy you to buy a next-gen laptop without windows preinstalled.

www.apple.com

http://www.linuxcertified.com/

http://terrasoftsolutions.com/

They charge a windows tax. The only company that I know of that does not charge you for Windows for a Linux laptop is Linux Certified: http://www.linuxcertified.com/linux_laptops.html

I have this 17" laptop from them, and I love it!
http://www.linuxcertified.com/linux-laptop-lc2500. html

They charge a windows tax. The only company that I know of that does not charge you for Windows for a Linux laptop is Linux Certified: http://www.linuxcertified.com/linux_laptops.html

I have this 17" laptop from them, and I love it!
http://www.linuxcertified.com/linux-laptop-lc2500. html

http://www.addonshop.com/
http://www.emperorlinux.com/
http://www.ibexpc.com/
http://www.linare.com/
http://www.linspire.com/
http://www.linuxcertified.com/
http://www.microtelpc.com/
http://www.outpost.com/
http://shoprcubed.com/
http://www.sub300.com/
http://www.systemax.com/divisions.htm
http://www.walmart.com/
http://www.xandros.com/

http://tuxmobil.org/reseller.html
http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed
http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html

http://tuxmobil.org/ (general information)

No OS

(Sabio made by Quanta, like Dell-latitudes)
http://www.avadirect.com/
http://www.asimobile.com/
http://www.powernotebooks.com/

http://www.addonshop.com/
http://www.sub300.com/
http://www.linare.com/
http://www.linspire.com/
http://www.linuxcertified.com/
http://www.microtelpc.com/
http://www.outpost.com/
http://shoprcubed.com/
http://www.systemax.com/divisions.htm
http://www.walmart.com/
http://www.xandros.com/
http://tuxmobil.org/
http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed
http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html

http://linuxcertified.com/freebsd-lc2210d.html

The major computer OEMs such as Dell, HP, and
Gateway are refusing to offer CONSUMERS a
non-Microsoft choice.
These OEMs are anti-competitve and
anti-consumer-choice. They continue to maintain Microsoft's desktop
monopoly.

I suggest not doing business with these companies until they offer a serious non-Microsoft choice to CONSUMERS.

Here are some companies that DO offer consumers a choice.

http://www.systemax.com/divisions.htm
http://www.microtelpc.com/
http://www.linuxcertified.com/

http://www.outpost.com/ (search for linspire)
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=395 1&path=0%3A3944%3A3951
http://www.sub300.com/Skins/greyTech/greyTech_inde x.aspx
http://www.linare.com/
http://www.linspire.com/featured_partner/featured_ partner.php
http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed
http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html

That place has some nice laptops, such as:
LC2500 Series Linux laptops - 17" Screen Extreme Workstations

While it is nice, it's not double the price I paid for mine nice. It has a 3 GHz processor, compared to my 1.6 GHz, smaller HD (mine's 60GB, that one is 40GB), and this beats what I have: "3D Acceleration fully supported" ;). Mine is still PCI Express, and on a Windows XP dual boot it beats the one on that link, but on Linux it really doesn't matter, it's supported enough through DRI. Also, the screen's 17" WXGA, compared to my 15.4" WXGA.

A bit steep in prices, but probably the best site for Linux laptops, thanks for the link :)

See my follow up reply to this thread. Linux Certified http://www.linuxcertified.com/ can match those specs easily but normally ranges in the $1k to $1,300 prices though they run sales all the time that are sub $1k.

As I said before another option is to do what I did. I picked up a certified refurbished iBook at http://store.apple.com/ for $800. It's a G4 1.2GHz 512MB PPC machine. I installed Yellow Dog and recently Ubuntu for PPC on it without problems.

Both solutions are MS tax free, but required a bit of shopping around to find.

There are lots of good Linux laptops on the market you just have to do a bit of searching
to find them instead of taking the easy way out by buying an overpriced Dell or HP
WinXP machine.

Have you looked at:

http://www.linuxcertified.com/linux_laptops.html
http://www.emperorlinux.com/
http://www.powernotebooks.com/

If you want a sub $1k you'll have to be a bit more creative, I went with a used iBook that I
installed YelloDog on. I've recently installed Ubuntu for PPC on it with no problems.

The Acer TravelMate 2300 notebook has been reviewed on /. and NewsForge several
times as a very nice $700 machine.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82 E16834115184

It's an ugly beast, this cannot be denied. To me it looks like a shamelessly rebadged Sager machine. Regardless, there are a few other HP laptops one can order with Ubuntu onboard. Here's a site that covers this lightly (german only).

Strangely I cannot find information about this on the HP page even though there was quite alot of hubbub about it when the news was announced. I think it's an 'on-request' thing, which equates to a tentative commitment to promoting this product on HP's part.

Anyway, there are a ton of companies out there that ship laptops with Linux. I hear very good reports about for instance.

Walmart sells machines made by Linare that don't come with MS Windows in any form.

Linspire has a list of retail partners that sell Linux PCs.

Laptops? Shit out of luck unless you want to pay a lot more.

Walmart sells a laptop with Linspire on it for $498.
Linare laptops start at $498.
Linux Certified laptops start at $999.
ASL has a sweet laptop for $1661.

I really wanted a linux laptop, but I couldn't find anything affordable, powerful and complete (meaning it has drivers to support everything the laptop has).

Easiest to buy preinstalled:

• Xtopd.de
• Linux Certified
• Emperor Linux