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I just put Linux Mint 17.1 MATE 64-bit on a Lenovo IdeaPad S415. Everything just worked out of the box, and that includes both the multitouch touchpad and the touchscreen. Also the network, wifi, sound, and graphics. Everything.

http://notebookplanet.blogspot.com/2013/12/lenovo-ideapad-s415-specs.html

That IdeaPad is a year old. A year ago, no Linux that I tried worked out of the box with it; graphics didn't work. X always got confused by the fact that the machine has two graphics adapters (one built-in to the AMD APU chip, and a discrete one).

I've really been enjoying Linux Mint 17.1; it seems to be a big improvement over Linux Mint 16. You can easily and non-destructively try it, just by booting from a USB flash drive that has Linux Mint on it. (You can use UNetBootIn to make the USB flash drive.)

While I can't guarantee that Linux Mint 17.1 will work on your hardware, it worked great on mine so I think it's worth your time to try it out.

In fairness there's something about it in the release notes, and a workaround that seems farily easy (no dicking around in the command line)

http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_q...

What's this, then?

I've never had a problem setting my Linux Mint search provider to Google, or DuckDuckGo, or Wikipedia (I haven't tried the others. Click on the down-arrow in the search window, select "Manage Search Engines ...", then click on the "Get more search engines ..." link. Google should be one of your choices.

If you are still running Mint 15 or older, there are a ton of unfixed exploits in there (openssh included, also enabled by default) which you might want to double-check aren't exposed online.

I can tell you are using an older version because ever since 16 (according to the mint folk) and 17 where I saw this behavior personally, the included firefox browser is PAINFUL to un-mintafy and un-fuck to let you use Google services in an integrated fashion.

Your process for changing integrated search providers will not work with a stock mint firefox. Google is not an option on the page it takes you to, which is immediately obvious to not be a firefox URL.
Load up the about:config page and find "browser.search.searchEnginesURL" to see the search providers page (where the "get more search engines" button takes you to) and see it is set to a mint page, not the standard firefox one.
It's also a system option under etc, so non-root running firefox processes can not simply delete it and get the normal default URL back. You CAN override the setting with your own URL to a page with search provider profiles, but if one doesn't have a un-modified copy of firefox to reference what the real default value is, it is difficult to reset. Clicking "default" will just blank out the URL completely.

On the mint page of firefox search engines, they out right explain that they will only list and allow search engines that give them ad revenue and refuse to add providers that are hostile to mint making money, which adamantly Google actually is guilty of.

For comparison, the linux mint firefox "get more search engines" goes to http://www.linuxmint.com/searc... (Which redirects to a slightly different url, with a .php extension)
Your options are Yahoo, DuckDuckGo, lxquick, startpage, Amazon, and Wikipedia. No others.
Below those options states why engines like google are excluded.

A stock default firefox however will use the setting https://addons.mozilla.org/%25...
(Which is the default setting in v31.0)

While I admit this ticked me off quite a lot the first 15 or so minutes I discovered it, I can at least understand why they might be doing this and in a way that doesn't violate their agreement.
I am too used to how Debian handles things and completely re-brands and re-names their firefox browser (iceweasel) so you are 100% aware this is Debians doing and not Firefox/Mozilla.
But that bit is just my own opinion.

From their own page, right now:

Linux Mint recommends the following search engines:
Engine Preserves your privacy Funds Linux Mint Description
        Yahoo The 2nd largest search engine on the Web, full of features.
        DuckDuckGo A safe and secure engine providing augmented Yahoo results.
        Ixquick A safe and secure engine gathering results from multiple search engines.
        Startpage A safe and secure engine providing augmented Google results.
        Amazon The largest online store.
        Wikipedia The largest online encyclopedia.

Why aren't some search engines included in Linux Mint?

Engines are included based on the following criteria:

        Funding: Whether using the engine funds Linux Mint
        Privacy: Whether the engine provides users with best-in-class privacy/security features
        Non-commercial: Whether the engine is popular and non-commercial

So, sorry, but for whatever reason in the version I had Google wasn't an option -- and figuring out what was required to change it wasn't worth it for me.

I was shopping for a distribution, not an ideology.

So, using the post right above yours...

https://www.libreoffice.org/
http://www.linuxmint.com/
http://www.gimp.org/


how are any of these quality apps tracking, selling my data or any of the other nonsense you posted?

They say they are "free" and they don't beg for money every time you use them.
They do have a donate page on them, but you are free click "not now" and contniue to download it.
How hard is it to post something that is not free as "freemium" or "in app purchases" instead of free?

"As I said, levels of ignorance."

What does this even mean? people are ignorant when "free" games beg for money and this is not 'false advertising'?

The main feature improvment I'd like to see on MDM would be to suck less power when it's idle. Seems in a previous version it was constantly pounding on the CPU when idle. http://forums.linuxmint.com/vi...

# to recover from a boot to blank screen (i think mine was all white)
# press "e" on grub screen to edit ubuntu boot command
# near end of "linux ..." line after "splash" add " radeon.modeset=0"
# for me it booted to command line, not gui
# then startx gave me a "no screens found" error
# see http://community.linuxmint.com... for more info/different video driver options

Honestly at the time I had this issue I didn't feel like fighting with it, and it wasn't that difficult for me to just back up my stuff and install the new version, so that's what I did. But I knew that I *could* have fixed it from the prompt or booted from live CD if i wanted a GUI.

Since then I have also switched from Mint Cinnamon to Lubuntu. I really haven't had any problems with Lubuntu.**

I love the look and feel of Cinnamon, and highly respect Clem's model/team/etc.
The reasons, not that any of these are major:
- I thought some older systems would prefer a light weight GUI
- In a VM Cinnamon complains that there's no hardware acceleration (though it still works fine)
- To move closer to the base platform (Debian to Ubuntu to Mint, there's a lag for something updated at the root...or at least a perception thereof)
Also at the time certain games in Steam launched in a window with no border and the mouse wouldn't leave the window to manipulate the desktop which annoyed me enough to see if other Linux flavors had the same issue. I actually haven't messed with those much since settling on Lubuntu so I can't say if it has the same issue.
** I take that back, I did have one log file that grew until the system couldn't boot. When that happened I booted to my Mint Mate partition, found the offender, deleted it, then went back to Lubuntu (because I have my apps installed and configured there). I'm not finding the name of the log file at the moment, but it was something that made sense and I think I made a change so it wouldn't grow out of control again.
The note for that looks like this:

# like WinDirStat
gdmap

Started Linux with RedHat in the mid 90's I gave up in disgust when I couldn't create the "partitions" or split up the hard drive as required. I've been doing the same for a while with Mint over many installations, this one time I let Mint select it's placement, as it's never put itself where I've suggest it to.

When Grub was my bootloader the problems really started, of all the things that doesn't have a GUI it's grub; I've complained recently that everything was GUI. Linux is a learning process to many (myself included) nothing to put on-line blind (while a firewall is available it's off and has zero settings, not even examples.

I knew Mint would claim the boot but also expected EasyBCD (NeoSmart Technologies) to fix it, as it's been very good at that.

I've always had a dual boot system, having Linux Mint available would work just fine. Yet working with Grub is no easy task. Some don't even mess with Grub they just select the drive from the BIOS when their computer starts. http://community.linuxmint.com... this one creates two grubs - I don't see it
http://www.howtoforge.com/dual... Just saying many avoid Grub, in one way or the other.

I had to be at the computer when it started to select windows, or have to reboot; playing around with Mint and having to use it are two different things; EasyBCD was of no help...

So I reinstalled Win7; I had been planning to reinstall Win7 as it was showing signs that it was time. It's no big deal (normally) C:\ drive is my Win7 Drives D,E,F,G,H,I,J,K,L (total of three drives) are support, another OS, or storage. I just format C drive, reinstall windows, the drivers and my favorite programs; 2 hours time I can be up and running with my base system.

Now here's where I came across Microsoft messing with those who use Linux; once a MBR has been touched by Linux, Windows won't have anything to do with it, and it's a damn pain.

This time the Win7 install claimed "Setup was unable to create a new system partition or locate an existing system partition" (a new one for me) I was able to continue on, it gave me a 100K boot partition, and Win7 partition, this screwed up my drive arrangement (my drives are named Drive_D, and so on). I formatted the drive again using Hirens boot disk 14 and Win7 install format both. This time I couldn't install Win7 at all, there's even a "FAST PUBLISH" "as-is in response to emerging issues". Support.microsoft.com/kb/2272294 claiming the partition the BOOTMGR is located must be in 4K clusters (NTFS is 4K clusters).

Searching for the problem, the accepted fix is to disconnect all drives except the one to hold Win7. I did that, no big deal as it's how I installed Mint without Grub loading Win7; and it worked, but there were problems. Win7 wasn't acting right, things weren't working as they should if at all.

So I started over, all this time the MBR seemed to be the problem but with Win7 formatting it before the install it should of been taken care of that, as well as my using Dart (Diagnostics and Recovery Toolset) http://www.microsoft.com/en-us... to repair the boot structure; specifically the "Bootrec" command. I had every reason to assumed it had been taken care of.

It was only when I specifically wrote the Win7 header to the MBR did everything start working. This was three days into the fiasco.

Until I learn Grub I'm not going there again, and Grub isn't all the friendly.

But surely you would do the same, no? Or would you really drop nearly $250 on an operating system?

...err, not really. I mean, seriously - my missus looked at the same situation and decided that she really didn't need Windows for anything.

For my own new laptop, I found my own slightly costlier solution, but it works well for me. It has been working like a champ for almost year now, in spite of the abuse I regularly give it (which is, so far, longer than most laptops hold up under my not-so-tender mercies.) I keep Windows 7 around on a VMWare Fusion partition, but that's about it.

Anyway, you know what I wish Canonical would work on? Ubuntu for Computers. ....... You have a core product, focus on it.

That would be Mint Linux.

No soapbox, no high-minded reasons here, just pure practicality: One of the places I've volunteered for a long time is a shelter for abuse victims. This county-funded program receives and triages women (mostly) and children into appropriate programs and mid-term housing, and provides courses ranging from home-ec and job training to computer literacy and online privacy before sending them back on their own. For several years those who completed the computer literacy program were given a good-spec laptop with Ubuntu + many apps, configured for security and privacy in the same way we'd done the training. We saw them all: hopeless tweaker prostitutes who went back and gave everything to their pimps, to beaten trophy wives hell-bent on recovering their independence after disconnecting the GPS tracker on the mercedes. After the first few months, the success rate surprised even us: Of those who were given a modern-spec PC with Ubuntu, more than 2/3 were still in active use a year later (still with Ubuntu, and usually with separate accounts for the kids). We probably had 250 Ubuntu PCs in the field at any given time.

Then Shuttleworth jammed Unity forward. Ubuntu's shift to a Metro-esque gui was a disaster with this novice audience. We had people decline a free computer because they couldn't make sense of Unity. Others installed XP over it and called us when it broke or they discovered you had to pay for Office. Others called over and over for basic navigation support. In general, the answer was "no thanks" to Ubuntu.

Switching over to Mint (first with Mate, then Cinnamon) rescued our program, and was a huge hit with the end users. Several years of .deb and ubuntu-based config & tuning was re-usable on Mint, and the interface didn't scare off the novices. Similar enough to the older W95/XP/7/OSX interfaces that they knew were to start, but modern enough for good security and functionality. Just to be clear *I* like playing with the latest and weirdest geekery, my s.o. does malware reversing to calm her nerves (so hot!!), and my home has kids who think nothing of reflashing cyanogenmod on their phones and argue over whether to use Win8+visual studio or Mint+Eclipse for their homework. But that's not the world most people inhabit, and it's really important to recognize that /. readers are not the norm or a good baseline for what is useful and usable to the general populace.

Clem's just a regular guy solving regular problems.
Shuttleworth is a philosopher of the future, with some distinctly reality-adjacent ideas of what ought to be, and enough monetary thrust to make his pigs fly just fine.
I'd rather live and help people in the present. So yeah.... "Ubuntu for Computers" is Linux Mint.

What is the recommended free browser to install on an old XP machine, preferably along with an IE-like skin for the older generation?

Go here:

http://www.linuxmint.com/downl... Download, burn an .iso disk, boot from it, and follow the instructions.

Free browser, a modern and free OS, and it just works.

Life is good.

Perhaps people who give a shit will fork it.

Like this? http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/

Sure it can... but for the love of God--why??

People expect Linux to look like Windows. I'm just starting out with Linux (Mint) I think I have the version that will work for me linuxmint-16-kde-dvd-64bit but I don't know - not a problem there are 6 other versions of the same OS http://www.linuxmint.com/downl...

I've installed it before, wanting to get into the terminal (to learn it) is a chore, everything is set up in a GUI, the terminal you can't short cut to, no easy way to access it other than going into the menu and selecting it. Because it's suppose to look like Windows.

I don't want to spend ages configuring. Glitches included a list of problems I included in a previous thread. Sorry but it does NOT look slick at all, the graphics look dated. I used 3.5, then switched to xfce4, then to Gnome, then to KDE 4.0, then at 4.3 switched to Unity. If it wasn't for the spyware I would definitely be sticking to Unity, it looks very polished and is easy to use. I played with KDE at Christmas and tried shifting a guinea pig family member to it even, but ended up switching all the machines to Linux Mint. So far Mint looks like my target when I reformat, though it's not my ideal desktop.

I love the idea of KDE, it pleases me technically, but take at look at the screenshot (I would like to say screenshots but there is only one): the mess of Dolphin, the Windows95 task bar. Now compare it to Unity (amazing interactive demo, as well as slick looking desktop), or these themes for the still immature Cinnamon and compare it to kde-look.org.

I've written apps using QT, it's very nice. But as a desktop it's got a hell of a long way to go.

Phillip.

I'm a huge fan of Linux Mint. They release fairly regularly and have several "sub-flavors" as well. I'd try something like Maya(13). That's their Long-term support version. If you're concerned that she'll have issues, download it & run it as a LiveCD ( the default ). If she likes it, it is set up for easy installation right through the booted liveCD. It's very easy to use & my almost 10 year old laptop has no problems with it. It actually was a faster/easier install than any Windows version & updates are (mostly) seamless. http://www.linuxmint.com/relea...

http://www.pendrivelinux.com/

Running a recent version of Linux Mint with the MATE desktop
http://linuxmint.com/

Create a big 4GB casper file on the USB stick.

Have it mount the existing hard disk and create shortcuts so they can get to their photos and stuff.
Maybe put on http://www.playonlinux.com/en/ to help get some of the old Windows software working under Wine

Bring a new stick with you over the holidays with upgrades.

They may or may not use it (they can just remove the USB stick and reboot to go back to their old getup), but at least you feel good that you've done "your part" without spending more than a few hours downloading and twiddling while you're there, and they don't go running off to all their friends complaining about how you came and now their computer is all different.

Solution: Linux Mint
(or Linux Mint Debian if you want a bit more work, but have rolling updates and a true debian system)

Use VMWare Player or VirtualBox to run any flavor of Windows, or multiple Windows-VMs if you wish.

Buy a stationary PC, they're cheap and extremely powerful today. You can easily get 32 GB RAM, SSD for OS (ext4 runs fine on SSD).

Make sure you buy a great graphics card. SteamOS is coming, and there are already some great games on Linux you can run through Steam (compatible with SteamOS games).

Stay ahead of the trend for once. It requires some courage, but staying on a sinking ship will be more and more troubling from now on.

Support no-spying, free and open software and hardware. Support the future YOU want. Yes, there might be some sacrifices, but you'll soon realize you don't really need them after all. You'll feel more free and focused, not just by not having to ignore popups and balloon annoyances, but by knowing what you want and where you're going while realizing how to get there.

In 2010 Ubuntu was the best shot the Linux community had at getting serious market penetration into desktop and laptop computers. With GNOME 2 it wasn't as pretty as Windows Aero but the user interface was similar enough that the switch was easy for regular home computer users.

Then Canonical switches gears to Unity. The first few releases were very buggy, and even after it was quite stable the user interface changes annoyed people. So Ubuntu ceased to be the default suggestion for a Linux version to try to Linux newbies, and there really wasn't any new contender to replace it.

Linux Mint gained popularity rapidly from that, as it offered user interfaces and customization options in line with what dissatisfied Ubuntu users wanted. But Mint doesn't have the same chance at capturing a significant piece of the standard desktop market. Their recommended upgrade process is still a fresh re-install ( see http://community.linuxmint.com... ), which means it only works for technically skilled users.

Now, Ubuntu and Unity are open source software and Canonical is a business, so they have every right to change whatever they want for any reason or no stated reason at all. So I do not now and did not then hate Mark Shuttleworth or the Ubuntu developers or Canonical employees for the change. I just feel like a great opportunity for Linux to enter mainstream use was wasted and all that momentum that Canonical and Ubuntu built in user base and press support was splintered.

The next great opportunity for Linux to reach user in mainstream desktop computers is probably SteamOS, and while I admit that I'll probably run it myself, I am not pleased that a proprietary digital rights managed software distribution platform may be the lever that makes Linux mainstream on home computers. ( Really, I should put my money where my mouth is and support one of the Ubuntu alternatives that could become equally good for new users with some work. Fedora? OpenSUSE? Debian? )

And to be fair to Canonical and Ubuntu, I think mainstream (non power-user) computer users will be mostly on mobile in the future. So even if I dislike the Unity user interface, I can understand trying to invent some alternative to existing desktop environments that would work well on mobile devices. I understand where they're trying to go, even if I think the direction they took is a mistake.

Linux Mint Debian

Highlights:
*) Rolling Upgrades
*) VMPlayer and VirtualBox is free and let's you run most Windows applications, but today you'll need it for very little.
*) Steam for Linux-gaming
*) ext4 journaling filesystem, Terminal, no need for virus detection layers, no spyware, no crapware, no nagware, no payware, no spying, no backdoors, no changing EULAs, no tiles, etc., etc.

Hint:
1) apt-get install dconf-editor
2) Run dconf-editor. Searching here should yield ALL configuration for screensaver and power management, which traditionally Linux distros hide very cleverly!

I've used Linux on and off since 1995. This time: I'M STAYING!

Captcha: crisis

It's often easier to do a full save, a fresh install, and then restore whatever you need. My Linux Mint upgrades take about a day of work to get everything back to where I want it.

Dear Mint users, please stop calling it an upgrade when in fact you're doing a complete reinstall of the OS. I know that this idiocy is coming from the project's website ("In a "fresh" upgrade you use the liveCD of the new release to perform a new installation and to overwrite your existing partitions."), but that doesn't mean you have to use it outside the linuxmint forums.
It's only easier in case you don't use full disk encryption, which the installer still doesn't support. Why the project decided to write an installler from scratch I will never understand, and don't get me started on LMDE... ;-)

http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/?page_id=61

I have installed KDE mint in a few VMs
I have to say It plays well so far.
There official releases of mint with KDE as default desktop.
http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php

It's the obvious "backward" step (and I don't mean that in a negative way, retreating from the dark alleyways [Mark Shuttleworth] has led [Ubuntu] down is a good thing), but most of the people I know who actually liked [Ubuntu] have moved sideways to Mint.

Mod Parent Up.

When I first found Ubuntu, I was evangelizing it like crazy to friends and family.
There it was, the first Linux that I could recommend to one of those "I don't want to understand it, I just want it to work" Windows XP users.
Sometimes people didn't want to abandon their famliar Windows XP environment.
Others were happy that their computer was now pratically immune to malware.

I continued this up until Ubuntu released Unity as the default desktop.
My mother clicked the button to do a distribution upgrade (I always instructed her to install the updates ASAP), and she called to say "everything changed around on me".
From that point, I decided that Ubuntu had finally jumped the shark.
Now that my mom couldn't use it, I could no longer recommend it to anyone.
I evacuated her data to an external drive, reinstalled the previous Ubuntu, restored her data, and instructed her not to install any updates.

I had her continue this holding pattern until I discovered Linux Mint on DistroWatch. It was at the top of the page hit ranking, so I gave it a try.
Here it was again! The new Linux that I could recommend to the "I don't want to understand it, I just want it to work" Windows XP users.
Even better, since Microsoft totally rearranged everything in Vista / Win 7, nobody was afraid to lose their environment.
In fact, they loved the fact that Linux Mint was close to the Windows XP they loved and far from the unfamiliar Vista / Win 7.
That "don't want to change my computer" has only grown with the release of Windows 8.
Nobody that I know wants to use Windows 8, and everybody to whom I show Mint desperately wants to keep it.

Now Linux Mint is on my mother's computer, my brother's computer, my best friend's computer, my best friend's boyfriend's computer, my girlfriend's laptop, my girlfriend's daughter's laptop, my work laptop, and my home laptop.
I'm not sure who else all those people may have sold on Linux Mint, but they love to show it off (especially my girlfriend, to her friends at college).

I'm sure my story is not unique. Parent is right.
Those of us who liked the old Ubuntu have moved to Mint.
And we've taken our friends and family with us.

Will then? You're late to the party.

I'm using Mate or Xfce, Cinnamon would be heavier in disk accesses and ram for me and especially I want to run a desktop that can run on all computers not just mine. So I run a 2D desktop.

I read the Mint news and it's progressing, for instance in Mint 14 they made a unified control panel in Cinnamon instead of having two control panels (a Gnome 3 one and a Cinnamon one) ; Cinnamon 2.0 brings the bigger changes. Overview with screenshots here http://segfault.linuxmint.com/2013/10/cinnamon-2-0-released/

I left Ubuntu after they went to Unity.
I went to Linux Mint.
I have never regretted this decision.

Don't use Mint on Mint.

There's a patch here which fixes it, also speeds up your computer and makes it look a lot better.

Linux is broken and everything you do can potentially break the system.

Actually, Linux Mint is quite nice.
In my humble opinion, it's the best Windows XP that you can download.

If you're of the opinion that Win 8, Mavericks, or Unity are a clunky mistake, you owe it to yourself to try Linux Mint.
My non-tech family members (who want the computer to "just work") absolutely love it.

What I've never understood though is why one would want to use Ubuntu over straight-up debian... (or Fedora over RH/CentOS).

Leaving aside the case for servers, for me the answer is the same for both. As a clueless (selectively, by choice) user, I just want my computer to work. When I build a new one, I just want to tick a box at installation to fully encrypt every attached drive.

In Ubuntu and Fedora, you just check the box. Uninstall the installer in Mint, intall the latest version, and you can do the same in Mint. (See: http://forum.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=118398&sid=af61d80a5eabe54c26935b841ccfacae )

For me, this little advantage means there's a whole body of knowledge about partitioning and file systems that I can simply ignore yet I get a machine where the data-at-rest problem is solved completely. I'm using Mint atm, as should be apparent from the link above. I haven't checked in a while, though. Do any other distros make whole-disk encryption this easy? That single feature has been my make-or-break decision factor for the better part of a decade, at least.

Does mdm work? (It presume it stands for "mint display manager"). From the description, it says it support XDMCP. It's like everything went rogue or DE-specific, so Mint wrote a replacement that can do everything. The current version has crazy eye candy too :
http://segfault.linuxmint.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/mdm.png
Using HTML, which sounds crazy at first but the thing just shows up and it must mean anyone can give it any look.

is the best Windows XP still on the market.

If you get sick of your desktop or laptop pretending that it's a tablet (due to modern Ubuntu, Microsoft, or Apple operating systems), give Linux Mint a whirl.

Ubuntu already jumped off the Unity cliff.

Microsoft already jumped off the Win 8 cliff.

Apple is now mid-leap off the Mavericks cliff.

When you get tired of your computer trying to pretend it's a tablet, try Linux Mint.
It's the best OS/UI combination that I've used to date.

With a name like that... but anyway, let me say this: hell, no! Search has poor discoverability, you have to know beforehand and remember what you have in a given computer. I'm not saying XP's menu is much better, in fact it has a deadly flaw: the applications are not properly categorized. There's no logical arrangement. Hell, it's not even consistently alphabetical. So, both are bad.

Then who gets it right? Linux does. See the hierarchy in that menu? Programs are organized neatly and logically. Similar apps go together. And there's still a search box if you want one.

http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=99890

http://fixunix.com/redhat/489285-rhel-5-1-rhel-5-2-dependency-hell.html

http://www.freelists.org/post/oracle-l/Linux-X86-26-Oracle-9204-and-RPM-Dependency-Hell

http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/53077/firefox-circular-dependency-hell-on-linux-mint-13

http://linuxgazette.net/issue71/tag/3.html

http://lwn.net/Articles/198455/

http://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-technical-help-here/applications/406017-does-dependency-hell-still-exist-2.html
* "The best (worst) way to get dependency hell is to add too many repositories. Eventually one will find the right combination of conflicting repositories to create a situation of dependency hell."
* "The problem is the more repositories that are added, the less and less likely that applications are built against the same set. "
* "Dependency hell ALWAYS exists. ALWAYS (Yes, Debian users, I'm talking to YOU). The question is whether or not if somebody tries to NOT go to dependency hell, is the system going to take them there anyway."

http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/32594/fedora-16-dependency-hell

http://www.eonlinegratis.com/2013/dependency-hell-trying-to-install-gcc-on-centos4/

Oh, dependency hell is real alright!

There are plenty of us who want Linux Mint and easy to use Linux. The mere fact that Shuttleworth went off on a weird Unity loop and left it for others to commercialise the technology he originally developed doesn't mean we don't want or shouldn't recognise his vision and financial contribution. I think that going direct to the contribution page and booking a cool new Linux device doesn't sound like a major pain for a bunch of us.

If people keep buying the interesting new Linux directed devices then this will keep the hardware designers making them. That can never be bad.

No, there is nothing you are missing I don't get the upheaval over Gnome 3 either. Some people just can't stand anything changing and there is a certain small subset that group that likes to kill time by searching for crap to get angry over and make a lot of noise about it. The rest of the Gnome 2 traditionalists have simply realised that there is a growing collection of (how many is it now?) Gnome 2 forks out there and they are only a yum/apt-get away. Mate for example is now at version 1.6 and there is a Linux Mint LiveDVD that comes preinstalled with it.

I'm not someone who froths at the mouth and gnaws my desk every time something changes. Even the perpetual shuffle on Windows only annoys me (OK, so what is the Nitwit Neighborhood called in this release?).

But Gnome3 took away critical desktop assets that I used every day and all day. THAT is what the upheaval is about. It didn't change them, it removed them and left nothing comparable in its place. And that is what had me screaming in rage.

I switched to Cinnamon, which replaces some, though not all of what I lost, and I don't mind the fact that it looks like Gnome3 at all.

I dont understand the problems that people have with it. I spent an hours learning it, I kept an open mind and ended up really liking it.

That said - 90% of what I do requires a shell so maybe Im missing something....

No, there is nothing you are missing I don't get the upheaval over Gnome 3 either. Some people just can't stand anything changing and there is a certain small subset that group that likes to kill time by searching for crap to get angry over and make a lot of noise about it. The rest of the Gnome 2 traditionalists have simply realised that there is a growing collection of (how many is it now?) Gnome 2 forks out there and they are only a yum/apt-get away. Mate for example is now at version 1.6 and there is a Linux Mint LiveDVD that comes preinstalled with it.

I know this will invite a flame or three, but the proper response here is Mate.

Mate http://mate-desktop.org/about/
"MATE is a fork of GNOME 2.
It provides an intuitive and attractive desktop to Linux users using traditional metaphors."

Cinnamon (although same as Gnome 3 with extensions) http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/
"Traditional layout, advanced features, easy to use, powerful, flexible."

Can you not see the difference. The real question is why use Mate.

Yes, and convicted monopolists are known for the fair terms. Thanks for the clarification.

Even assuming that you have no choice but to use MS Windows, they actually sell newer software with lots of support remaining.
How is holding a monopoly relevant to purchasing that the monopolist is telling you NOT TO buy anymore?

and even after that he had a chance to return it to the retailed if he didn't accept the terms.

Yes, how simple. Even in successful cases, just lose a day's work and struggle for a few weeks making it a lossmaking adventure for most people; to say nothing of the countless unsuccessful cases.

a) It's pretty hard to find a new machine with XP preinstalled nowadaya. And I mean really hard! Why would you even bother searching for one if you don't want XP?
b) Why the hell did you buy a computer with a pre-installed OS if you didn't want it? My above statement applied to someone who purchased a box set and wanted to return it.

You're saying that is I install an OS I purchased 10 years ago, it will not be the same quality as it was 10 years ago?

No, and being irrelevant to the topic, I would not say so. Why do you ask?

Sure, it doesn't have the same features as modern OSs, but it's 100% IDENTICAL to an installation made 10 years ago. There is no difference at all.

Right. And for a car whose first "copy" sold 5 years ago, a new copy made 2 years ago is also identical to the first copy sold 5 years ago. But support from manufacturer starts as of 2 years ago, not as of 5 years ago.

Yes, he'll be deprived of the support he knew he wouldn't get when he purchased the software and accepted the terms

Yes, and convicted monopolists are known for the fair terms. Thanks for the clarification.

and even after that he had a chance to return it to the retailed if he didn't accept the terms.

Yes, how simple. Even in successful cases, just lose a day's work and struggle for a few weeks making it a lossmaking adventure for most people; to say nothing of the countless unsuccessful cases.

Unfortunately, the days of a cheap, unlimited Microsoft development stack are coming to an end.

Fortunately, other cheap/free unlimited stacks are readily available:

Android

Java

Linux Mint

So long Microsoft, don't let the door hit you in your parity bits on the way out.

Yes, Mint is based on Ubuntu but they're doing some migrating away:

http://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php/

You don't have to.

Mint also has a pretty good backup program (mintBackup) that remembers the software packages you had installed and you can install them again later.

Would it, in principle, be possible to to provide cinnamon or mate as packages for other distributions, e.g. Ubuntu?

Sure, both Mate and Cinnamon provide these packages (right now I'm running Mate 1.6 on Ubuntu 12.04 and it works very well):

http://wiki.mate-desktop.org/download
http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/?page_id=61

However, you won't them in the official Ubuntu repository. I suspect Mate at least will make it into Universe after Debian adopts it, which now looks like it's going to happen:

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=658783

And have they actually explained publically what the "Mint Search Enhancer" extension for Firefox does? You know, the one that you can't remove without also removing your desktop's meta-package in Mint, ensuring that it's reinstalled on every UI upgrade?

This is a bit old, but they have explained it several times. I actually wouldn't mind it if it didn't stupidly break functionality like the Google calculator and cached pages. Someone benefits from your searches anyway. I don't remember exactly how I did it, but I got rid of it, and it didn't come back.

Sorry Mint, but if you destroy basic functionality in the process of earning money off of my browsing, your hacks go away just as other annoyances such as online ads. I kept the default home page, though, I have several default tabs in any case.

Just install Linux -- like Mint or Fuduntu
http://www.linuxmint.com/
http://www.fuduntu.org/

set up a restricted "guest" account
with chrome and Firefox on the desktop

problem solved

It's what I use on my and my girlfriend's laptop. I really just consider it Debian with all the annoying stuff done already. Like WiFi drivers, GUI, Sound. It integrates nicely with MATE (Since MATE was created for/by Mint). But under neath I just did a netselect-apt and found my nearest servers.

http://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php

LMDE in brief
Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE) is a semi-rolling distribution based on Debian Testing.
It’s available in both 32 and 64-bit as a live DVD with MATE or Cinnamon.
The purpose of LMDE is to look identical to the main edition and to provide the same functionality while using Debian as a base.

And there is even a thread of guys who point it towards Unstable and it usually works fine. Plus you don't ever have to do a reinstall like you do with the Ubuntu based ones.

Plus my home server can now run apt-cache and everyone in the house gets the same packages.

Linux Mint 14

Linux Mint was the first distro I used, and I think it's superior to Ubuntu as a first linux fistro (especially now with Unity). On top of that, it's a great distro in general, so you might not want to switch from it! In any case, it's a great starting distro, and then later you can move onto Arch.