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The episode is "The Long, Twilight Struggle" and yeah, the purple ginsu beam slicing that Narn cruiser in half, is something I'll never forget.

B5 got futzed about by the uncertainty over the fifth season; consequently, the intended end of the arc was moved to series four, and when series 5 got the go-ahead, it was missing the main plot that drove the whole series.

No, that's not what happened.

All that happened at the end of S4 was that the end of the Earth Civil War was wrapped up at the end of season four -- it was intended to finish early on in S5 -- and the final episode, "Sleeping in Light", was filmed at the end of S4. (It takes place several years after the events of S4 and S5, so isn't really out of place at the end of either season.)

When B5 got renewed, they replaced "Sleeping in Light" with "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars" (filmed first thig in S5) and showed SiL at the end of S5 -- which is why it's the only episode in that season that has Ivanova in it.

The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5 has numerous posts from JMS about the show, written at the time it was happening (I was a regular reader at the time).

Jay (=

Thanks for the extremely educational reply. It's stuff like this that makes slashdot worthwhile. That and some of the jokes.

Some more Amiga trivia: The SFX on B5 were done by Foundation Imaging, for which they won an Emmy. Here's an interview of Ron Thorton, the founder of Foundation Imaging, on a B5 fansite.

Obviously, FI dropped use of Amiga a while ago, but they continue to use lightwave.

Oh! Just thought of another show that used the Amiga, toaster, and lightwave. Seaquest DSV! Remember that show, with Roy Scheider?

And one last bit. . .I knew a guy, not very well, that was using the Amiga's lumakeying capabilities, but I remember him complaining that it didn't have chromakeying (blue/green screen). Did this capability come later? This must have been circa 1990, because he was a neighbor in SF. I almost forgot about that.

Not quite. Sleeping in Light was always ment to be the series finale. It was filmed at the end of the 4th season, just in case the show wasn't brought back. Once JMS got word of the 5th season, Deconstruction was written to take it's place as the last episode of season 4, and SiL was tucked away for a year.

The Deconstruction of Falling Stars in Babylon 5 used the playback from the future idea (one million years in the future!) to cover some of what happened after the end of B5. (The episode was meant as a series ender just in case the 5th year was never done.)

This circle of life you speak of - does it, by chance, involve a Zarg?

And while the character Delenn was originally supposed to be a man, this would not have lasted. [SPOILER WARNING] When Delenn undergoes her transformation at the end of season one, the process was originally supposed to be not just from Minbari to a Minbari/human hybrid ... but also from male to female. JMS's detailed comments on such can be found here.

And while the character Delenn was originally supposed to be a man, this would not have lasted. [SPOILER WARNING] When Delenn undergoes her transformation at the end of season one, the process was originally supposed to be not just from Minbari to a Minbari/human hybrid ... but also from male to female. JMS's detailed comments on such can be found here.

Hey, it worked for Julie Musante's bunch.

The right wing get-the-facts campaigns are mostly correct.

Most of the right wing get-the-facts campaigns were themselves a work of fiction-- about as factual as Moore's film.

Truth is a three-edged sword. One side is your truth, the other side is their truth, and the third side is the truth. (Long live Kosh!)

And hell, while I'm mixing Geek with Politics and Whiskey:

The metaphor functions on several levels: 1) in any argument, there is your side, and the other side, but if you're ever going to get past that and find agreement, or understanding, you must be open to a third idea, a compromise or intercession. 2) a real three-bladed or three-edged sword creates a wound that does not close again; knowledge, once received, and understood, is permanent and changes you forever.
JMS, 15 Jan 1995

More importantly, JMS himself maintains that the second season was vastly superior to the first - and more to the point, because of how hard he had to fight, against MGM itself, for the quality of the show.

Not to mention that him making a bad show just to show the execs that their notes were off the base seems incredibly dumb and, honestly, not something he would do (especially given what he went through with Crusade ).

Remember the old episode with the 2 aliens, each being half white and half black. At the end of the show, you realize that they hate each other because they are white on different sides. Wow. That was an excellent metaphore for race relations.

I liked Babylon 5's Purple/Green better.

While it has its flaws, I would say Stargate is one of the hardest science fiction shows in history.

The reason why is because it's progressive. If you exclude the introductory and wrap-up episodes common in more recent series, you could swap the first and last episode of ST:TNG. ST:TOS. Quantum Leap (other than Sam regaining his memory).

That may be true, but Stargate's not the only SF'ish show to've done that, and it certainly hasn't had the best execution of it. Like many other shows (such as DSN), the arc was hacked on after it was realised it'd be useful to have somewhere to go. It's been done much better than that with other shows, one of the best examples of which is definitely Babylon 5.

The entire show was built on a progressive story arc that JMS (the creator and writer for a great deal of episodes) had designed before the first episode of the first season was filmed. The specifics of the story had to change here and there to accomodate uncertainties such as possible cancellation each year, but nevertheless JMS did a brilliant job of having it all fit together.

The extent of it all is quite amazing for a television show, and it all makes for a great and comprehensive story told over five years of episodes. To properly appreciate all of the inter-references between episodes --- forwards and backwards --- it's really necessary to read the episode guides at the lurkers' guide in tandem with watching the episodes.

Hey, we won't be ready for immortality in 2258, so what makes this guy think we'll be ready in 25 years?

I think you're referring to Crusade, and not Legend of the Rangers. Crusade was on TNT, Legend of the Rangers was SciFi. The most informative site I have found in the 8+ years I have been following all things B5 has been The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5

For the record, the first B5 episode I saw was "A Distant Star," mid-season 2. It took some time, but I managed to figure things out from there, especially since "The Coming of Shadows," a key plot-point episode, came not long thereafter. I later picked up the early episodes I'd missed when TNT started playing them.

How much did my wife and I love the series? If you look on the inside of our wedding bands, you'll see inscribed there: "Faith manages." (from "Confessions and Lamentations," season 2)

The Lurker's Guide (already in the threads)

B5 quotes

More quotes

I Found Her - Free great B5 game (worthed a look)

Probably much more interesting links. I *really* liked B5. It helped me see things differently and actively participated in my "growing up". I published a Babylon 5 book of quotes if you're interested. Like many others, I fear a movie won't be good enough. One of the strengths of B5 was telling a story over countless episodes, not only 2 hours. Time will say.

"We create the future, with our words, our deeds and with our beliefs"
- Lady Ladira, B5: "Signs and Portents"

The Lurker's Guide (already in the threads)

B5 quotes

More quotes

I Found Her - Free great B5 game (worthed a look)

Probably much more interesting links. I *really* liked B5. It helped me see things differently and actively participated in my "growing up". I published a Babylon 5 book of quotes if you're interested. Like many others, I fear a movie won't be good enough. One of the strengths of B5 was telling a story over countless episodes, not only 2 hours. Time will say.

"We create the future, with our words, our deeds and with our beliefs"
- Lady Ladira, B5: "Signs and Portents"

I saw a few episodes here in Hong Kong when it was on TV, got into it about the third series. They never showed the 5th season. A few months ago I found the DVDs on sale in China, bought 5 box sets, the entire series, at about $12/box. Now I'm working my way through them at one episode every day or two. One nice thing is that I can check out the Lurker's Guide after watching each episode to see commentary, and especially JMS's responses, on various things. As far as media SF goes, it's pretty cool, way better than Trek.

I for one did not really find the whole Crusade spin-off that great. It became to much of a Star Trek clone. (One ship travelling through space encountering weird aliens...)

This means that while the pilot movies are filled with action, they tend to appear shallow and sometimes confusing to the casual viewer. Only further developments in the main story or careful analysis of the pilot will give you some clues. Let me give an example.

The B5 pilot The Gathering is filled with action, lots of characters and a convoluted plot. In the end it appears that "the bad guy" is G'Kar, having smuggled the assassin on the station. Well, yes. Except that G'Kar wasn't behind the turbolift sabotage. Working in the background, Lt. Commander Takashima was trying to escalate this conflict into a full-scale war. See See Lurker's Guide for an analysis. This plot point would later be rearranged and used in 2nd season.

The similarities in A Call to Arms and Legend of the Rangers suggest to me that the man has a massive story thought out; one which probably would last another 5 seasons and which he would like to tell us eagerly.

Early on, B5 was compared to Trek, but it turned out to be something different. I suspect that Crusade wouldn't have been your Trek clone, either. Myself, I can hardly wait for the movie and the eventual TV series.

-My first thought when reading this :)

I think Babylon 5 is without a doubt the best sci-fi series I've seen. And the last time I watched it through, I had located some of the best sites (IMO) on the net with references/story/background/everything for each B5 episode and read everything before watching an episode.
Especially reading the Lurker's Episode Guide added a lot to the series.

Lurker's Guide.
Timeline from Babylon 5 History Page

Shouldn't that be "last, best, hope"?

Every time I see an article about Xandros, I can't help but think of Zathras from Season 1 of Babylon 5.

Among others: Harlan Ellison, Neil Gaiman and David Gerrold.

full list. Of course, JMS wrote most of it, but not all.

The concept of "selective editing" (a la Mike Moore ;-) was demonstrated very well in the Babylon 5 episode "Illusion of Truth".

The B5 ISN news reporter Dan Randall edited the footage in an unethically truthful way just like Mike Moore

From "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

From a second "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

From a third "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

And finally a fourth "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (minor spoiler warning)

BTW, this Babylon 5 espisode is available on DVD

If you are really interested in the technomages I can recommend reading the Technomage trilogy (actually four books if you include the prequel). This happens around the times of the shadow war but is still very interesting.

The Cemtauri trilogy is also pretty good, a lot of Drakh stuff is covered there. There is also a psi-corps trilogy but this almost misses the telepath war, it happens between books 2 and 3. Still interesting if you want to know how the psi-corps is formed (first book) and a biography of bester (2nd and 3rd books).

I'm a pretty big B5 fan, i.e. I have all the books, novels, episode guides, comics, and magazines as well as the episodes themselves. I'd say these 10 books are must reads for fans, the rest can be comfortably skipped for all but the biggest fans :)

Sorry but I'm not gonna put the links here, but you can check out the novels page at the lurkers guide. All should be available at amazon still, oh and the name of the prequel to the technomages is "The Shadow Within".

Hope that helps :)

Remember how the first two season openers said "It was the dawn of the Third Age of Mankind...", and nothing was really done with it? Folks kept asking jms (the fact that he posted to the fan newsgroup is an entire new level of cool by itself) what it meant, and he said to wait. Then, nothing for the third year. Then, in 4x08, "Into the Fire", the conclusion of the entire Vorlon/Shadow thing... oh, that's what it meant.

A strange confluence of factors led to the creation of Babylon 5... a creator devoted enough to write four seasons (12/22, 15/22, 22/22, 22/22, 21/22---it adds up) of the show, a network that left him the hell alone enough for him to do it... well, it doesn't take much, but those things are exceedingly, exceedingly rare---see how often we get both of them together.

Let's see... the entire EarthForce arc, from 1x22 "Chrysalis" to 4x22 "Endgame"---who else could have pulled that off? Earth the bad guys! No way! They looked like the frickin' UN in the first season! ("Intersections in Real Time" remains one of my favorites, especially because it's a late-in-the-show episode that's self-contained enough to show to people who know nothing about the series. Could you imagine Starfleet doing that?)

Oh, and, of course, Londo's dream about his death at G'Kar's hands. You see it in the very first episode, 1x01, "Midnight on the Firing Line", but its full meaning isn't revealed until "War Without End, Part II" near the end of S3.

Not to mention that the Shadows' motives aren't even revealed until 3x22, "Z'Ha'Dum"---after we've all assumed that they're the demons and the Vorlons are the angels; what else could we have seen in 2x22, "The Fall of Night"? But it's not nearly that simple, of course. The Vorlon/Shadow arc remains my favorite component of the storyline.

--grendel drago

" Hi. I work for Greenpeace. ... we support ecoterrorism ... Greenpeace has a history of ... Violent Direct Actions for more than 30 years. ... We do ... ecoterrorism. ... speaking for Greenpeace, ... who just so happens to be an active reader of Slashdot ... You might not agree with protesting, but it's ... [a] type of terrorism ... It's quite obvious that this made the front page because of the people involved and the challenges that those people overcame."

There is no immediately available record that Greenpeace ever took 'Direct Action' against violent dictatorships

"truth" might not always be ethical truth "truth" might actually be a deceitful truth

... remember that Dan Randall (the Babylon 5 news reporter) was very truthful... he just strung the facts together in an unethically truthful way just like Mike Moore

From "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

From a second "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

From a third "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

And finally a fourth "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (minor spoiler warning)

"truth" might not always be ethical truth "truth" might actually be a deceitful truth

... remember that Dan Randall (the Babylon 5 'news' reporter) was very truthful... he just strung the facts together in an unethically truthful way just like Mike Moore

From "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

From a second "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

From a third "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

And finally a fourth "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (minor spoiler warning)

Orwell - his other writings apropos to current events
Many mention/imply that the USA is headed in the direction of Orwell's "1984" (perhaps F911 is an example of 1984 techniques in action). However, many are not aware of Orwell's other writings. For example, Notes on Nationalism:

NEGATIVE NATIONALISM
(i) ANGLOPHOBIA. Within the [pseudo?]intelligentsia, a derisive and mildly hostile attitude towards Britain [United States?] is more or less compulsory, but it is an unfaked emotion in many cases. During the war it was manifested in the defeatism of the [pseudo?]intelligentsia, which persisted long after it had become clear that the Axis [Islamo-fascist?] powers could not win. Many people were undisguisedly pleased when Singapore fell ore when the British were driven out of Greece, and there was a remarkable unwillingness to believe in good news, e.g. el Alamein [Iraq? Afghanistan?], or the number of German planes shot down in the Battle of Britain. English [Liberal Western Democracy?] left-wing [pseudo?]intellectuals did not, of course, actually want the Germans or Japanese [Islamo-fascist groups/countries?] to win the war, but many of them could not help getting a certain kick out of seeing their own country humiliated, and wanted to feel that the final victory would be due to Russia [UN? 'world-community'], or perhaps America, and not to Britain. In foreign politics many [pseudo?]intellectuals follow the principle that any faction backed by Britain [United States?] must be in the wrong. As a result, [pseudo?] 'enlightened' opinion is quite largely a mirror-image of Conservative policy. Anglophobia is always liable to reversal, hence that fairly common spectacle, the pacifist of one war who is a bellicist in the next.

One last thing ... I triple double dare you to watch the Iraq torture video clip

I will claim that Mike Moore does not "lie" per se ... rather Mike edits "creatively" ... May I ask you to read my entire post, consider all the links, especially the Babylon 5 "Illusion of Truth" plot summaries? The DVD is also available. You might also get a kick out of the Orwell aspects.

BTW, Happy 4th :-):-):-)

F911 - deceitful truth

BEGIN EXAMPLE showing Mike Moore being truthful albeit in a deceitful manner:

At the end of F911 Michael Moore quotes Condoleeza Rice as saying,

Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on 9/11.
- Condi Rice as editied by Mike Moore

[snip][snip][snip]

Pretty damning stuff, isn't it? But that was the truncated, Michael Moore version.

Now for the full, unexpurgated quote:

Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on 9/11. It's not that Saddam Hussein was somehow himself and his regime involved in 9/11, but, if you think about what caused 9/11, it is the rise of ideologies of hatred that lead people to drive airplanes into buildings in New York.
- Condi Rice without Mike Moore editing

Mike has taken a Condi quote and given it the polar opposite meaning from what she actually said. Now, Moore fans, consider this. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of hours of video of Condi Rice talking about Iraq. If Condi had ever actually said that there was a tie between Iraq and 9/11 then Moore would have used it. So, if the Bush administration had ever actually claimed that there was a connection between 9/11 and Iraq, why would Michael Moore feel the need to use these kind of editing tricks to try and prove his point?

Because nobody ever said it, and he damn well knows it. His entire premise is based on a lie.

END EXAMPLE showing Mike Moore being truthful albeit in a deceitful manner
Babylon 5 - deceitful truth
If you are still a wee-bit confused about how Mike Moore editing works then you can check out the Babylon 5 episode "Illusion of Truth" which taught me that:

"truth" might not always be ethical truth

"truth" might actually be a deceitful truth

... remember that Dan Randall (the b5 ISN news reporter) was very truthful... he just strung the facts together in an unethically truthful way just like Mike Moore

From

"Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

From a second "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

From a third "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

And finally a fourth "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (minor spoiler warning)

Orwell - his other writings apropos to current events
Many mention/imply that the USA is headed in the direction of Orwell's "1984" (perhaps F911 is an example of 1984 techniques in action). However, many are not aware of Orwell's other writings. For example, Notes on Nationalism:

NEGATIVE NATIONALISM
(i) ANGLOPHOBIA. Within the [pseudo?]intelligentsia, a derisive and mildly hostile attitude towards Britain [United States?] is more or less compulsory, but it is an

F911 - deceitful truth

BEGIN EXAMPLE showing Mike Moore being truthful albeit in a deceitful manner:

At the end of F911 Michael Moore quotes Condoleeza Rice as saying, "

Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on 9/11."
- Condi Rice as editied by Mike Moore

[snip][snip][snip]

Pretty damning stuff, isn't it? But that was the truncated, Michael Moore version.

Now for the full, unexpurgated quote:

"

Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on 9/11. It's not that Saddam Hussein was somehow himself and his regime involved in 9/11, but, if you think about what caused 9/11, it is the rise of ideologies of hatred that lead people to drive airplanes into buildings in New York."
- Condi Rice without Mike Moore editing

Mike has taken a Condi quote and given it the polar opposite meaning from what she actually said. Now, Moore fans, consider this. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of hours of video of Condi Rice talking about Iraq. If Condi had ever actually said that there was a tie between Iraq and 9/11 then Moore would have used it. So, if the Bush administration had ever actually claimed that there was a connection between 9/11 and Iraq, why would Michael Moore feel the need to use these kind of editing tricks to try and prove his point?

Because nobody ever said it, and he damn well knows it. His entire premise is based on a lie.

END EXAMPLE showing Mike Moore being truthful albeit in a deceitful manner

Babylon 5 - deceitful truth
If you are still a wee-bit confused about how Mike Moore editing works then you can check out the Babylon 5 episode "Illusion of Truth" which taught me that "truth" might not always be ethical truth and that "truth" might actually be a deceitful truth ... remember that Dan Randall (the b5 ISN news reporter) was very truthful... he just strung the facts together in an unethically truthful way just like Mike Moore

From

"Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

From a second "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

From a third "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

And finally a fourth "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (minor spoiler warning)

Orwell
Many mention/imply that the USA is headed in the direction of Orwell's "1984" (perhaps F911 is an example of 1984 techniques in action). However, many are not aware of Orwell's other writings. For example, Notes on Nationalism:

NEGATIVE NATIONALISM
(i) ANGLOPHOBIA. Within the [pseudo?]intelligentsia, a derisive and mildly hostile attitude towards Britain [United States?] is more or less compulsory, but it is an unfaked emotion in many cases. During the war it was manifested in the defeatism of the [pseudo?]intelligentsia, which persisted long after it had become clear that the Axis [Islamo-fascist?] powers could not win. Many people were undisguisedly pleased when Singapore fell ore when the British were driven out of Greece, and there was a remarkable unwillingness to believe in good news, e.g. el Al

F911 - "stopping certain content from surfacing again"
Funny because it reminds me of a movie I am hearing a tremendous amount of buzz about where Mike Moore teaches the concept of editing out-of-context ... thus, as you say, "stopping certain content from surfacing again"

BEGIN EXAMPLE showing Mike Moore attempting to "stop certain content from surfacing again":

At the end of F911 Michael Moore quotes Condoleeza Rice as saying, "

Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on 9/11."
- Condi Rice as editied by Mike Moore

As usual, just like he did with the Charlton Heston speech in BFC, Mike plays fast and loose with the truth through the world of editing.

Pretty damning stuff, isn't it? But that was the truncated, Michael Moore version.

Now for the full, unexpurgated quote:

"

Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on 9/11. It's not that Saddam Hussein was somehow himself and his regime involved in 9/11, but, if you think about what caused 9/11, it is the rise of ideologies of hatred that lead people to drive airplanes into buildings in New York."
- Condi Rice without Mike Moore editing

Mike has taken a Condi quote and given it the polar opposite meaning from what she actually said. Now, Moore fans, consider this. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of hours of video of Condi Rice talking about Iraq. If Condi had ever actually said that there was a tie between Iraq and 9/11 then Moore would have used it. So, if the Bush administration had ever actually claimed that there was a connection between 9/11 and Iraq, why would Michael Moore feel the need to use these kind of editing tricks to try and prove his point?

Because nobody ever said it, and he damn well knows it. His entire premise is based on a lie.

END EXAMPLE showing Mike Moore attempting to "stop certain content from surfacing again"

I dare say this is a good example of how an individual (Mike Moore in F911) has, as you say, attempted to "stop certain content from surfacing again" Babylon 5 - "stopping certain content from surfacing again"
If you are still a wee-bit confused about how Mike Moore editing works then you can check out the Babylon 5 episode "Illusion of Truth" which taught me that "truth" might not always be ethical truth and that content that exists may be prevented from seeing the light of day ... remember that Dan Randall (the b5 ISN news reporter) was very truthful... he just strung the facts together in an unethically truthful way just like Mike Moore

From

"Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

From a second "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

From a thrid "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

And finally a fourth "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (minor spoiler warning)

Orwell
You wrote "reminds me of a book I once read" ...

Your above post as it might be quoted by your evil twin "Skippy" after having learned a thing or two about editing out-of-context from Mike Moore

See how Mike Moore editing works? 'Skippy' truthfully quoted what you wrote. Isn't he great. 'Skippy' can now claim that he honestly quoted you. 'Skippy' has the facts correct. You might be angry that 'Skippy' added some extra stuff such that your original intent changes, but you are being mean because 'Skippy' did not put quotes (") around the extra stuff ... he just sort of added it at the end of your prediction of the future. Isn't 'Skippy' a swell guy?

'Skippy' is practicing Mike Moore editing

From "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

From a second "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

From a thrid "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

And finally a fourth "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (minor spoiler warning)

One last thing ... I triple double dare you to watch the Saddam (Iraq torture video clip)

From

"Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

From a second "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

From a thrid "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (spoiler warning)

And finally a fourth "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (minor spoiler warning)

Ed Koch (democrat mayor of New York City from 1978 to 1989) might agree there is a need for "Ethical Film Makers"

Disagreeing with America's foreign policy and seeking to change it, responsibly or irresponsibly, is a fundamental right protected by the First Amendment.

Shaming those who do it irresponsibly [unethical Moore?] is our only lawful recourse and rightly so.

Senator John Kerry in criticizing United States' foreign policy and the incumbent president is acting responsibly, albeit I disagree with many of his views. On the other hand, Michael Moore, writer and director of the film "Fahrenheit 9/11," crosses that line regularly. The line is not set forth in the criminal statutes, but it is determined by Americans who know instinctively what actions and statements taken and uttered violate the obligations of responsibility and citizenship they deem applicable in time of war.

Franklin Roosevelt (president of usa during ww2) might agree there is a need for "Ethical Film Makers"

And, finally, there are a few among us who have deliberately and consciously closed their eyes because they were determined to be opposed to their government, its foreign policy and every other policy, to be partisan, and to believe that anything that the Government did was wholly wrong.

To those who have closed their eyes for any of these many reasons, to those who would not admit the possibility of the approaching storm--to all of them the past two weeks have meant the shattering of many illusions.

They have lost the illusion that we are remote and isolated and, therefore, secure against the dangers from which no other land is free.

In some quarters, with this rude awakening has come fear, bordering on panic. It is said that we are defenseless. It is whispered by some that only by abandoning our freedom, our ideals, our way of life, can we build our defenses adequately, can we match the strength of the aggressors.

I did not share those illusions. I do not share these fears
[snip][snip][snip]
But there is an added technique for weakening a nation at its very roots, for disrupting the entire pattern of life of a people. It is important that we understand it.

The method is simple. It is, first, a dissemination of discord. A group--not too large- a group that may be sectional or racial or political--is encouraged to exploit its prejudices through false slogans and emotional appeals. The aim of those who deliberately egg on these groups is to create confusion of counsel, public indecision, political paralysis and, eventually, a state of panic.

Sound national policies come to be viewed with a new and unreasoning skepticism, not through the wholesome political debates of honest and free men, but through the clever schemes of foreign agents.

As a result of these new techniques, armament programs may be dangerously delayed. Singleness of national purpo

Quoting parent: I never quite understood why JMS in particular has this phobia about story ideas. Is he more paranoid than most, or is it the fact that he likes to interact with the fans more than your typical TV writer?

JMS loves to chat up with the fans. However this can be dangerous. A very popular B5 episode was almost not made because a fan made a comment in an unmoderated newsgroup that was close to the idea of the story.

Now the script for the linked episode was already in pre-production (IIRC) and it was clear that JMS didn't get the idea from the newsgroup, but the "suits" would not allow the episode to be produced . JMS had to find the actual human who made the usenet post and get him to sign a release saying it was ok to make the episode and he wouldn't sue.

You mention solicited scripts. Yes, you can submit scripts "on spec" in Hollywood, but there is an approved way to do this. You have to fill out forms and send it to the right people. You have to notify them and follow procedures.

Most production offices have special secretaries that open up unmarked mail and send it back unread if it contains a script that wasn't expected or doesn't contain the proper forms for a spec script. (My knowledge is a little old, I suspect since 9/11 they do something different about the mail.)

Anyways, the parent raised a good question. Yes, you can submit scripts on spec, but you need to do it the right way. Publically posting story ideas or sending them in emails to people on the creative side of the business is bad mojo.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe I read that MJS was forced to let "Crusade" (follow-on show to B5) because he would not add more "Sex". So, I dont see how he can save Trek err.. what I mean to say is that Enterprise has gotten very "Sexy" (T'Pol is half-nude in many of the latest episodes) and while I dont mind this in the least, I think MJS will have a problem with this tactic. Does he propose to change it all together? BTW I watch every episode as soon as it is TIVO'd, I dont think it could get so bad that I wouldnt watch it. ;) I also have some B5 on my TIVO of which #422 is my personal favorite.

Now I'll no doubt be speedily corrected if wrong ;-) but actually wasn't the push to retake Earth completely rushed due to Babylon 5 nearly being cancelled a year early?

It wasn't completely rushed: as noted elsewhere in this thread, had JMS (J. Michael Stracynski, the author) been planning on a fifth season, the fourth season would have ended with "Intersections in Real Time", which was the 5th-last episode of the season. (See the Lurker's Guide.) The fourth season actually stands up pretty well.

The more important effect was that the fifth season was probably the weakest of the series, with many threads intended to end in season 5 wrapped up in season 4 and many threads intended to start in season 4 being jettisoned and then having to be restarted in season 5 without much lead time.

Then the damn network turned around and renewed the show, the whole "cancellation" seeming nothing more than a !$&%! bargaining ploy.

The "damn network" didn't turn around and renew the show. Seasons 1 thru 4 were aired by the Prime Time Entertainment Network (PTEN), which collapsed. After some legal acrobatics, the cable network TNT bought up the rights to distribute Babylon 5 from this defunct entity, which is why B5 went from late night UHF broadcasts to cable.

"However, the open source strategy is a triple-edge sword." --Ken Brown, Alexis de Tocqueville Institution

"Understanding is a three-edged sword." --Kosh Naranek, "Deathwalker" (113), Babylon 5 (Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5)

Consider the oldest stories, like the Indian epic the Mahabharata or the Greek's Iliad. It's not about the wars or conflicts. It's about the interplay between people. It's always been about the context of the people. We as people want to see other people experiencing things.

Now, look at the lastest successful sci-fi, IMHO Babylon 5. Sure, they made space fighting a lot more realistic. But it was the story of the Shadows vs. the Vorlons, Sheridan's heroic sacrifice on Z'ha'dum, and the betrayal of Garibaldi. Really, look at this summary about the conflict:

The Shadows, awakened years earlier from a millenium-long slumber on their ancestral home of Z'ha'dum, gradually made their presence known, and their purpose became clear: weeding out the weak and defenseless among the younger races to promote rapid evolution. Moving largely behind the scenes, they set the younger races upon one another, causing wars and inciting genocide. The Shadows are the embodiment of the question, "What do you want?" They seek not military victory, but philosophical dominance, a universe in which younger races scramble madly to attain their goals without regard for the consequences. Such an environment demands chaos, and it's chaos the Shadows have so effectively brought upon the major races.

When the other First Ones departed for reasons of their own, the Vorlons were left behind to oppose the Shadow philosophy. If the Shadows represent chaos, the Vorlons are lords of order: they seek the same outcome, the advancement of younger races, but on their terms, whether their charges like it or not. The Vorlons prefer to ask the question, "Who are you?" It is a question that leads to introspection and spiritual growth, but not to expansion or scientific advancement.

Unfortunately, the struggle between the two philosophies is played out not among the ancients, but among the younger races, unwitting pawns in a game few yet realize is being played.

>>roughly the same degree we have to plan in advance for the Earth being consumed when the Sun turns Red Giant...

But by then we will have evolved into energy based life forms much like the Vorlons, and will have long since moved away from the planet of our birth.

wbs.

According to JMS, had S5 been picked up in time, the last ep of S4 would actually have been Intersections in Real Time.

We've dealt with this kind of thing before.

What happens is that sometimes, while the station is being constructed, a religious cult will build a secret level into the station and sneak in a Zarg. These are large, rather deadly predators, who might hang around for years before a suspicious person notices that there's one level less on the station than the schematics say there should be. They eat maintenance workers, but for some reason leave the cultists alone.

Happens all the time.

For some applications a shell script might be the right tool. Back at the dawn of time (circa 1994) I wrote a "caption contest" for startribune.com in Minneapolis. All it took was a couple of four- or five-line shell scripts. I made a similar tool for weatherman Paul Douglas to update his column and forecasts.

Steven Grimm's uncgi makes it simple, and the resulting process was much smaller/faster/less resource-intensive than disturbing the Perl monster.

Message to bgates@mikerowesoft.com blocked by challenge/response spam protection system. Please answer the following question and your email will be passed to your destination:

What do you want?

Makes me wish I was on Usenet when the show was actually running, seeing all the jms posts on the Lurker's Guide to B5.

I still can't believe he actually talked to the people on Usenet while writing all but one episode of seasons three, four and five. The man's some sort of cyborg, he's gotta be.

I'm still gonna write him a great big gushing thank-you once I finish watching the last season. I've been working my way through the whole bunch over the last year, and while I may want to curse jms for raising my standards so much, I'm pleased beyond words that something that good could actually get a spot for five years.

"There will never be another one..."

--grendel drago

http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/037.html

The greatest test of our resolve to make software a building block and a tool usable, distributable and modifiable by all... is to give it to those who do not understand the value of the gift that they are being given.

If SCO uses our code, we win. If SCO benefits from our code we win. If SCO modifies our code, we win. If we deny SCO our code, we lose.

To quote Babylon 5: "If we deny the other, we deny ourselves." -Citizen G'Kar, "Point of No Return"

I couldn't agree more - JMS, in a nod to 1984, had a great sequence in a Babylon5 episode called The Deconstruction of Falling Stars in which a regime promotes 'good-facts' in order to sell their pertinant propaganda - you wouldn't want those 'real-facts' to get in the way, would you? Changing your mind is one thing - trying and change the reality of recent history to better suit your current position is quite another!

This equates to artificially intelligent versions of viruses, complete with very sophisticated capabilities. A script kiddies delight. Of course, properly written, it could be dangerous to play with, taking out a few script kiddy systems in the process.

(imagine demonic voices coming out of a system - "Who dares summon me?")

"Everyone lies, Michael. The innocent lie because they don't want to be blamed for something they did not do. The guilty lie because they don't have any other choice."
----- Sinclair, "Babylon 5", 'And the Sky Full of Stars'