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Babylon 5 Movie Starts Filming in April
An anonymous reader writes "According to comingsoon.net, the first theatrical Babylon 5 movie, "The Memory of the Shadows" starts filming in April. The story was written by series creator J. Michael Straczynski."
woot
best...sci-fi...series...ever
Steven Beck will direct a big screen adaptation of the popular sci-fi TV series Babylon 5. The movie, titled The Memory of Shadows, is intended for theatrical release and was written by series creator J. Michael Straczynski. Production Weekly reports that the project starts filming this April in the UK.
In "Shadows," the technology of the ancient and extinct Shadow race is being unleashed upon the galaxy by an unknown force, and Earthforce intelligence officer Diane Baker, whose brother was recently killed in a mysterious explosion, it out to find out who is behind the intergalactic conspiracy.
Joining her is Galen, a techno-mage who has been charged with keeping the technology out of the hands of those who would abuse it.
From the article:
Joining her is Galen, a techno-mage who has been charged with keeping the technology out of the hands of those who would abuse it.
I don't recall, but isn't he the guy from Crusade? I only saw two episodes but that name sounds familiar.
While I was a devoted watcher of the Babylon 5 series from the first episode, even when my local syndicate started showing it at 1:30 am Sunday Morning, I've been disappointed in every one of the B5 Movies. In fact, I think each movie was progressively worse than the next.
Have things changed? I don't know. I certainly hope so, but B5 Fan that I am, I'm still probably going to wait until the dollar theatres for this one.
Unless the previews look absolutely fan-freaking-tastic, of course. Then I'll probably get suckered in, like always. *raises a fist at the sky and shakes it* I swore after Legend of the Rangers, never again. Damn you!
This now concludes our broadcast day.
Oddly, the first post to this slashdot story
was submitted 1000 years ago.
Summary from the article
In "Shadows," the technology of the ancient and extinct Shadow race is being unleashed upon the galaxy by an unknown force, and Earthforce intelligence officer Diane Baker, whose brother was recently killed in a mysterious explosion, it out to find out who is behind the intergalactic conspiracy.
Sounds more like Legend of the Rangers than the Telepath War, which is what some of us figured any feature film would be about. Too bad.
Rhymes that keep their secrets will unfold behind the clouds.There upon the rainbow is the answer to a neverending story
I'm not sure I'm going to want to see it when it comes out. Not because I don't like B5, but I don't get what's going on. I've tried several times to get into B5, but I keep finding myself not understanding what was going on. If I watch an episode in the middle of season 3, I don't get half the references to things that have happened already, so I don't understand what's being done in that episode. I have tried to watch it from the beginning when Sci-fi loops around and starts showing it from season 1 episode 1, but my schedule isn't such that I can set aside that same bit of time every day to watch it, so I invariably end up missing episodes. Being a poor student, I can't afford a TIVO, and I'm not going to buy a VCR just for this (and I'd probably forget to set it sooner or later anyway). Thus I'm continually left out of a series I really want to get into. So when this movie comes out, if I haven't seen B5 through, I don't know if I'd want to go to see this movie if I don't think I'd be able to get what they're talking about in the movie.
I was never into B5. It was cool and all, but the plots were so interwoven it never grabed me. (Maybe if I saw it from day one things would be diffrent) Aneway, will I need to do any serous catchup before this movie makes sence. BTW, the SCI-FI Icon is a guy from the original Star Trek. w00t! Sory, trekey moment has passed.
We are the Borg...
I like Crusade, and I hope they tie up the loose ends, what with the Drakh plague and all.
Too bad Richard Biggs isn't around anymore.
Though How Similar will it be to that failed half of a season sequal series Crusade? Saw they are going to have Galen (which was a character I liked from that show) but Sounds like a re-hash attempt at something they allready did. But I'll still go see it, this is the only TV show that I actually went out and bought all the DVDs for (even the movies). So I hope the theature version is good!
Crusade did have a Galen, played by british actor Peter Woodward, son of the other british actor Edward (affectionately known as edwoodwoodwoodwood). Same guy? Most probably although crusade was pretty much on a par with the dire made-for-tv movies.
Am I alone in being disappointed in just about all Babylon 5 after season four?
I mean... I understand that JMS had to rush to get the "President Clark/Earth's Civil War" storyline resolved by the end of S4, because it wasn't certain if there WAS going to be a season five. But after the drama, tension, and climax of S4, five was a long, drawn-out, letdown. "Whiney goths in space" is NOT good television; and it was all I could do not to change the channel every time that wanker Byron was on screen.
After that, "In The Beginning" and "Thirdspace" got my hopes up. But "Call To Arms", and "River of Souls" were lackluster. And "Crusade" was sad.... just plain sad. I saw the first ten minutes of "Legend of the Rangers", at a friend's house, and could only think that I wasn't missing much, not having cable.
This movie is going to have to be seriously spectacular in order to convince me that B5, as good as it USED to be, isn't played out.
cya,
john
Imagine all the people...
I'm not a huge B5 fan, but a lot of people on Slashdot are. It matters to them. And looking at your posting record over the last little bit, I would say "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Most of your posts seem to be stuff that matters VERY little.
Well, this is news that is long awaited. It looks like this may be a follow-on to the Crusade spin-off series since it is dealing with leftover Shadow technology. Plus Galen, being present in Crusade, draws a link between those two. There have been rumors that Lando might show up in it...and where he goes G'Kar goes too. JMS also made some comments a while back about having to rewrite the script some after Richard Biggs died (Dr. Franklin) so clearly it looks like some B5 crew from the original show might show up beyond the ambassadors.
Can't wait to hear more news.
*Waiting for JMS to release some info directly still
I hope Peter Woodward does play Galen. He was good in the role, and it would jar to see somebody else in it. One of the best episodes of Crusade was the one his father was in.
Good, inexpensive web hosting
It's accaulty a tv series?!?! I've been using the name Babylon 5 for years as a name of a far away planet, i.e. "Where'd that guy come from? I dunno, Babylon 5??".
Most. Underrated. Series. Ever.
SNACKS ARE AWESOME
Same problem as the "new old Enterprise" has. As ist's a big developing story, people are not willing to accept it.
Sad, as it's the best Star Trek ever done in my opinion.
I couldn't name one anime with a similar plot, however, this is probably because the only decent anime was Astroboy and Starblazers, and everything else is just cutesy-crap!
-My first thought when reading this :)
I think Babylon 5 is without a doubt the best sci-fi series I've seen. And the last time I watched it through, I had located some of the best sites (IMO) on the net with references/story/background/everything for each B5 episode and read everything before watching an episode.
Especially reading the Lurker's Episode Guide added a lot to the series.
Lurker's Guide.
Timeline from Babylon 5 History Page
Thanks for the laugh. It was a good one.
BTW, how's life in the parents basement?
with trekkies and star wars fan there is no room for anything else.
well if you want masive space batels and long intricate plots i have to sugest legend of the galactic hero
d _o f_the_g.html
http://animenfo.com/animetitle,644,uinshf,legen
it doesnt have the "good" and "evil" crap we are used to, both sides evolve
i'm at episode 27 now and not once have i been disapointed in this 110 episode story.
Not quite.
Clearly the best Sci Fi series ever is: Firefly :)
Seriously, if you haven't seen Firefly, rent all 4 disks from Netflix or something, you won't be disappointed. My favorite episode is the last on the disks: Objects In Space. All 9 main characters are interesting, complex, believable, and bounce off each in a manner consistent with their personalities. The action is great, plots are fairly unpredictable, and the writing is packed full of sharp humor.
For alternate opinions, check out the reviews of the Firefly DVD's on Amazon: 1200 reviews, average rating: 5 stars
B5 I'd say would be close behind on the rating scale overall... Mostly I think for it's ambition, and intricate tapestry of dramatic plotlines.
wag more
bark less
Oh, and incidentally, a Firefly movie is coming out this May. Hopefully from that, someone in TV will be smart enough to pick this up as a series again!
wag more
bark less
This spring my boss at the Jet Propulsion Lab invited J. Michael Straczynski out for a tour of the place... I was very lucky to spend an afternoon with him and his wife (shameless pic!). I somehow managed to stave off most of the B5 references that came to me as we were showing him around (but alas I still came off as the fanboy I am).
I asked him what he thought about the upcoming movie project, whether he thought it would be good or not. He replied, "It's going to be shit." After a moment I caught the sarcasm and I realized that he would not be doing this movie if he didn't have a great story to tell.
Judging from the stories he has already told, I think it's going to be well worth the wait.
Cheers,
Justin Wick
Firefly's good, but best sci-fi ever? Joss Whedon humour's quite entertaining, but it's not necessarilly what I want from sci-fi all the time.
In my opinion, comparing or rating shows and movies with some arbitrary ranking or rating system is simply pointless. Each show has its good points and its bad. That doesn't necessarily make one better than the other.
For a minute I read that as "BabylonX" Movie starts filming...
;).
No such luck
I like how you see a big difference between STTOS and DS9 when in actuality they're the same. Superficially STTOS was about exploring planets, but it wasn't really. It was about exploring humanity and what it means to be human. It explored our past and how we once were. Deep Space Nine did the exact same thing. It's possible to argue it explored a larger variety of important issues.
I saw every episode of Firefly and enjoyed it, it's just not what I look for in Sci-Fi.
Never could get into Farscape.
best way to get into babylon 5 is to buy the dvd box sets... I bought the first one as a total gamble.. now I own upto season 3... trying to save cash for the last two boxes.. it's definately worth the money... best written sci-fi EVER.
Tim Choate (Zathras) also died recently in a motorcycle accident. :-( link
Rhymes that keep their secrets will unfold behind the clouds.There upon the rainbow is the answer to a neverending story
It's been pushed back, probably September 2005 :(
Here's my DeCSS mirror, where's yours?
While you're waiting for the movie, check out the fan-created flight sim, complete with a detailed story, realistic physics, and great ship models:
http://ifh.firstones.com/
Enjoy!
i think that this would make an exilent sci-fi, political mmo-type game. just a thought
Don't you mean "Z'athras" and "Zath'ras"?
Unfortunately, both B5 and Farscape suffer from the same problem: they start out bad but turn awesome later (In B5's case, REALLY bad). Firefly is great from beginning to regrettably short end, but they perhaps overdo the western theme a little and it puts some people off.
Here's my DeCSS mirror, where's yours?
the b5 start wasn't exactly bad, but very very slow.
Conservatism: The fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is your inferior is being treated as your equal.
The interesting thing is that both DS9 and B5 tried the "soap opera" class of sci fi, but DS9 pulled it off.
:)
The first half of DS9 was single show format with occasional character changes, by the time they switched in seasons 4-5 they already had a dedicated set of viewers watching it.
B5 tried to do it from the beginning and it's very difficult to see every ep of a new show when it comes on (unless you have mythtv or whatever) so most people would miss an episode or two and just toss the show.
Same problem with 24, hard to get new people into it unless they really want to put the effort
Wow, yea boy I hate that Cowboy Beebop or Martian Successor Nadesico because they are just too cutesy and lack any drama. Don't forget Rahxephon since anime wouldn't have deep themes or an intricate story. Pfft and newer stuff like Bleach or My Hime.. total garbage since they don't have action.. though admitedly Bleach does have that killer lion stuffed animal, but its just another example of its cuteness. Don't watch Hellsing or your will asplode from the cuteness.. yea yea I know I know not everyone likes anime but still it irks me when people dissmis the entire art form because its 'for kids'.. dear god I even saw Urotsukidoki and Magical Twilight in the Kids section of Hastings because it was animated. Thats like having Bella Loves Jenna in the Horror section or Debbie Does Dallas in the Sports section. I admit that it makes me laugh though imagining the parents reaction when they see women ripped apart with demon dicks in thier 'kids' show that they rented.
..Clearly the best Sci Fi series ever is: Firefly
And i thought Firefly was the next name for Firebird.. err.. Firefox.
fifteen jugglers, five believers
Hell yeah.
Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
The actual beginning was OK, but you have to admit there were some really dire filler episodes in the first and second seasons. Farscape, IMO, didn't suffer so badly from the filler problem, although in some cases, that was because some of the non-arc eps were just to weird to really rate....
Oh, and I keep meaning to go out and buy those Firefly DVDs. One day it may actually happen.
I don't know if I'm alone here, but I found the first season to be really rough. Sinclair just didn't do it for me, Sheridan was much better IMHO. I only picked up B5 in season 2 and watched season 1 after the fact. And while I enjoyed how they tied the plot lines together in Seasons 3 & 4, I still found the acting too stuffy & forced to be called good.
Karma: Excellent (Mainly due to Bill & Ted's Karma Adventure)
In the beginning, I had my first taste of Babylon 5 while I was traveling. My own cable service wasn't showing B5 at the time, so I figured I'd check it out. It seemed bad to the extreme--a bunch of humans and aliens on a space station, with bad lighting and cheesy makeup. It felt like DS9 done on a really cheap budget. If you know the series, it was the last half of the Soul Hunter episode--definitely not the best intro for a newbie.
My second encounter with B5 was...let's say it was less negative. It was an episode with a character who wore a very 2001-ish astronaut's uniform, and unfortunately for me, it was an episode full of flashbacks and hints of things to come. The episode didn't totally grab me, but it intrigued me enough to seek out the show if the chance came.
It was the dawn of a new age. The TNT cable network picked up B5 and made it one of their flagship programs. Now I could watch the whole series from the beginning, and I could watch each episode 2 or 3 times a day. And that is exactly what I did. The first time I watched the whole series, I was blown away by the interweaving of plots, the complexity and ambiguity of the characters and the richness of the cultural allusions. The second time through, I could better appreciate all the clues and hints which I had missed. The third time through, and B5 lost a bit of its magic for me. I'd notice flaws in the writing or other faults.
Crusade, the spinoff series which followed B5, never grabbed my attention the same way. Crusade felt like so many random elements mixed together without ever truly blending.
I think I would watch a B5 movie, but then again, I'm familiar with the characters and the premise of the show. A big hurdle for a B5 theatrical release is how they can balance satisfying longtime B5 fans against the need to be accessible to people who have never watched the TV series. One of the strengths, and perhaps the strength of the show was its complexity, and I don't think that a 2 or 3 hour movie can encapsulate that.
Anakin Simpson: If you're not with me, then you're my enemy--ooh, donuts!
It was a Space Cruiser Yamato clone, with one ship travelling along through unknown space, fighting against hopeless odds in a quest to rescue the entire Earth.
And that kicks ass.
babylon what? get a life, comic book guy.
This means that while the pilot movies are filled with action, they tend to appear shallow and sometimes confusing to the casual viewer. Only further developments in the main story or careful analysis of the pilot will give you some clues. Let me give an example.
The B5 pilot The Gathering is filled with action, lots of characters and a convoluted plot. In the end it appears that "the bad guy" is G'Kar, having smuggled the assassin on the station. Well, yes. Except that G'Kar wasn't behind the turbolift sabotage. Working in the background, Lt. Commander Takashima was trying to escalate this conflict into a full-scale war. See See Lurker's Guide for an analysis. This plot point would later be rearranged and used in 2nd season.
The similarities in A Call to Arms and Legend of the Rangers suggest to me that the man has a massive story thought out; one which probably would last another 5 seasons and which he would like to tell us eagerly.
Early on, B5 was compared to Trek, but it turned out to be something different. I suspect that Crusade wouldn't have been your Trek clone, either. Myself, I can hardly wait for the movie and the eventual TV series.
I meant to say that at first, B5 felt like DS9 done badly on a really cheap budget. Not that DS9 has bad lighting or cheesy makeup. Which could have been inferred from what I wrote. Sorry. I'll go now.
Anakin Simpson: If you're not with me, then you're my enemy--ooh, donuts!
Last episode? The episode you're describing was the season finale for season 3, right at the height of the shadow war story arc. There were two complete seasons after that...
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
If it doesn't have Claudia Christian, I'm not gonna see it.
The interesting thing is that both DS9 and B5 tried the "soap opera" class of sci fi, but DS9 pulled it off.
:)
The first half of DS9 was single show format with occasional character changes, by the time they switched in seasons 4-5 they already had a dedicated set of viewers watching it.
B5 tried to do it from the beginning and it's very difficult to see every ep of a new show when it comes on (unless you have mythtv or whatever) so most people would miss an episode or two and just toss the show.
Whereas I gave up on watching DS9 before it got good. Seriously, the first couple of series were dreadful. I got to thinking that if I watched another episode about Sisko's kid (what's his name? been a while since I watched any) doing something he shouldn't and getting into trouble I'd probably have to destroy my TV, so I stopped.
And it is quite possible to watch B5 without seeing every episode, particularly of the first series, most of which was rather episodic. You might find something further down the line (either in the next few episodes, or somewhere in the next couple of series) you don't entirely understand, but it's a tolerable loss.
Same problem with 24, hard to get new people into it unless they really want to put the effort
Whereas all I find with 24 is you have to see the first episode of a series and the general reaction is "ok, do you have a copy of the next one?" Turn up at a friend's house with a DVD-R with 5 episodes on it, and you won't be doing anything else for the next 4 hours. I seriously don't know how to stop watching that show, even if the plot is ridiculously flawed (some of those twists just defy logic), their technology ridiculously inept (how long did it take for them to trace that phone call in series 1? and someone encrypted data with a system where you could _partially_ reconstruct the original?), and the technobabble using jargon in wierd and painful ways (often making me want to shout at the scriptwriters, "you don't know what a socket is, so stop using the word that way!").
Put that way, I'm not sure why I like it. But I do. Hmmm.
As long as someone else writes the dialog
Farscape's very first episode was awesome. Then most of the rest of the season was pretty bad. The turn it took when Scorpius was introduced at the end of season 1 was really good, and it stayed good for a while. Then in the the middle of third season it got really bizarre and gross and it wasn't until the middle of the 4th season that they turned the bizarreness to their advantage (it stayed bizarre, but in a good way, this time). And the mini-series finale was excellent!
This guy is clearly a troll... As noted below he's talking about an Season 3 episode, while the entire series ran for 5 seasons.
Additionally, IIRC Starcraft came out in 1998, while the Babylon 5 show he's talking about aired two years earlier in 1996.
Wait, are you saying that jms wrote "Amazing Spiderman" for a time, and put plugs in for "Babylon 5"? That seems kinda... crass.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Well, it won a Hugo. Two, actually. ("The Coming of Shadows" and "Severed Dreams".) Other awards, too.
I'd agree that it's most likely the best SF series that never gained widespread appeal...
So, what would you call the most overrated SF series?
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Wow. He's taller than I thought he'd be. When I saw his cameo at the end of "Sleeping in Light", he seemed kinda little. And I really thought I was going to cry at the end of that. I almost did. But not quite. Oh well.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
I'm a huge old school fan of Babylon 5. Old school in the sense that I started watching when it was in it's late first season / early second season, was back in 1994/1995 (or thereabouts). I'm sure there are plenty of more "seasoned" folks who started with the initial broadcast of the first episode.
As far as the popularity or "perceived quality" of Babylon 5's seasons go, I think a lot of fans (dare I say most?) would agree that it increased from season one through season three, each successive season being better than the previous.
To me personally this was the case all the way until the end of season four. But I realize not everyone prefers season four over season three. Many seem to like the grander scale of the Shadow War over the civil war.
The good thing about season four was that there were hardly any "filler" or non-arc episodes. I assume everyone knows the reason for this so I won't go into it any further (in short: the series was in danger of cancellation after season 4). This is also, at least in my mind, the root cause of the problem with season five.
JMS, having the initially well laid out and pre-planned story arc completed by the end of season four, was suddenly faced with the fact that the show was renewed for season five (thanks to TNT picking it up from Warner) and he had a very limited timeframe to come up with scripts and some sort of a mini story arc for the last season.
Add the very last minute leaving of Claudia Christian from the show (which forces JMS to toss out Ivanova's character and come up with a replacement) and you have a recipe if not for disaster, then at least for a "not so great" season. Under the circumstances I would say JMS did a decent job (I remember reading on the usenet B5 newsgroups that 4 or 5 hours a night was pretty much a good night's sleep for him at the time).
Now don't get me wrong, I hated (and still do) the whole Byron / Tragedy of telepaths subplot. A lot. I don't know anyone among my friends who likes it (and they're pretty much all big fans of B5). Imho the only good part about it is that the annoying teeps get what's coming to them. But the whole thing takes up only about eight episodes from the start of the season (which some will argue is 8 episodes too many). That still leaves almost two thirds to take care of the pretty decent mini arc dealing with the shadow tech and the Drakh's plot concerning Londo and the Centauri.
I think season five overall is a bit underrated. It has a host of good episodes (including one of my favourites, The Corps is Mother, The Corps is Father) and the latter part of the season is pretty good with a nice build up to the Fall of Centauri Prime. Also, at this point in the series the "weight of history" (for lack of a better term) of the character's and their actions gives a lot of the scenes and drama some extra gravitas, which I like.
With this rather long and boring rambling I've hopefully arrived somewhere near my actual point. Which is that Babylon 5's main strength in my view is the pre- planned, conceived and written story arc that tells a great story and a bunch of smaller stories intertwined over a (long) period of 110 episodes. It allowes for such wonderful foreshadowing that carefully builds up to the dramatic and climactic events. This is very hard to replicate in the time constraints of a motion picture.
And this is the reason I believe the four TV-movies haven't been the best B5 can offer (although I personally like In the Beginning a lot). Also this fundamental issue or problem probably can't simply be undone with a larger budget (which the big screen adaptation will likely have compared to the TV-movies).
So with a somewhat spotty track record of B5 (TV) movies so far and the aforementioned problem my expectations are moderate at best. Having said that, I'll probably be in line to get a ticket to the premiere..
Btw, in case you already haven't done so, remember to check out The Lurker's Guide's page for The Memory of Shadows @ http://
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure of the former" - Albert Einstein
agree 100%. Bought the DVDs - well worth it. The humour is sharp, the technology not too unbelievable. Space is *silent*. They actually shutdown shipboard systems to avoid detection! Yes! No men in rubber suits! Guns that need oxygen to fire! Serenity is grungy, as it should be. Great characters, action, scripts.
The humour is a relief from the sheer po-faced gravitas of Voyager and a large part of the ST genre. Humour is what (mostly) set aside the first ST series, and is pretty much absent from the subsequent ST series.
And I definitely have the hots for Zoey. Whooey...
h
Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious
Did anyone else first read it "first theoretical Babylon 5 movie"..? What would a theoretical movie be like anyway? :)
Sorry, I just really couldn't stand the first season. After hearing the characters blathering on (poorly) about all this techno-jargon and pseudo-magical things happening left and right, my brothers and I started calling it "Babblin' Jive". I couldn't look at the thing without laughing.
:-)
In the words of Monty Python: "Got better..."
...although it was supposed to.
The fact is that news came through the series was gonna be cancelled while they were filming the early stories of season 4. So, in a truly Herculean effort, JMS rewrote the last *two* seasons on the fly, compressing them down into one season.
The Shadow War was supposed to take up the whole of S4 and the Earth Liberation War was supposed to be the main arc of season 5.
Then Sod's Law kicks into play and TNT announced they'd pick up the fifth season of B5 as the last episodes of S4 were airing. On the surface this was good news, but unfortunately JMS didn't have enough material left, he'd just filmed it all and used up all his good plotlines.
This is why season 4 seems rushed and flawed and why season 5 is a stinking pile of crap for the most part. It also explains the very odd series finale. Although it was shown at the end of S5, and appears like that in the boxsets, it was actually filmed at the end of series 4 but they held over transmission for the last year. That's why Claudia Christian appears in it when she'd been absent for the rest of the last series.
IMHO JMS shoulda ditched the (mostly) lousy plot he used for S5 and used that year to give us a B5 / Crusade hybrid series, kinda sneaking Crusade in the back door. Now that would've been a helluva series, but hindsight is a wonderful thing....
Please buy the DVDs in support of decent television programming.
Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
yes bebob is also adult themed and has a deep plot but nadesico didnt.
so dont use that one to convince people isnt just for kids.
raxhephon dont use that one either the mecha thing brings up an other stereo type.
usualy i go for hilarious anime's to introduce them to people for example excell saga
Who said the Shadows were extinct? They're just not *here* anymore. Plus am I the only one that saw the connection between B5 and Lord of the Rings? Guess not:
http://www.bjt.net/~melanie/jrrtolki.html
Still the best (of the cheesy at least) series after ST:TNG.
I can't wait for the same wooden dialog and uninspired acting that made B5 such a smash hit.
*sigh* Firefly has ruined me.
I was not aware there were 764526 people on Slashdot.
Pray, how do you know this?
...nothing will ever surpass the greatness that was Buck Rogers in the 25th Century.
>>All five seasons of B5 were written before the shooting of the pilot episode.
Not quite - what there was was a consistent, single story arc which had FAR more detail than a typical series. The episodes were written on a season-by-season basis. JMS wrote the entirety of season 3 himself, but had help for some of the episodes in other seasons.
I agree that this approach allowed a much richer story to develop, and made it the best SF TV series we've seen yet.
[ flamebait]That said, the 1st and 5th seasons were comparatively weak (only on the level of good Star Trek, say) [ / flamebait]
Need Geek Rock? Try The Franchise!
Sigh...
B5 was really good in some places, really not good in other places. Firefly had 12 episodes, four of which I saw which were not entertaining whatsoever and Farscape never seemed to catch my interest, even though I love Sci-Fi and the Muppets. Personally, I liked Lexx, as insane as it was, more than any other of the aforementioned series.
The best Sci-Fi series EVER, would have to be Dr. Who. Dr. Who was doing EVERYTHING before EVERYONE else and has the best villains ever. Heck, Dr. Who even invented "The Matrix" in 1978, thanks to Douglas Addams. Also, Dr. Who was voted the most popular Sci-Fi show EVER by T.V. guide readers a few years back and is (once it comes back on the air in 2005) the longest running sci-fi show ever.
Also, ever Buffyverse/Firefly worshipper NEEDS to get "Blakes 7" on dvd to show them how a show like Firefly should be done properly. Blakes 7 is next to Dr.Who as one of the best Sci-fi shows ever made. It's finale in 1982 still holds records for one of the most watched BBC programs ever.
"Jeremy, you need to get to an internet cafe and cut and paste some appropriate sentiments about me from the world wide
No Top 3 Sci Fi Series list is complete without Red Dwarf. A special-effects tour-de-force, RD combines a prophetic future vision with keen insights into the unchanging nature of man's relationship with technology. The only thing holding RD back from being a true contender is its lack of a sense of humor -- it does tend to take itself too seriously.
I loved Babylon 5 unreasonably, but I'm still convinced this movie will bomb because the things that made the series great are *gone*.
Another thing: other posts analyze why the series peaked at season three. I always wondered about that. The answer, it appears, is that Straczinsky was screwed around by Warner Bros and could never be sure if the series would continue as planned or be axed early. Way to go, Warner, there's nothing quite like shitting on your own doorstep is there? How ironic that the very worst thing that can happen to TV, is TV executives.
I suppose I shouldn't be surprised since the very same dynamic operates in the movie industry. Just look at Highlander II (oops, sorry for reminding you...).
As others have pointed out, the episodes were written a season at a time. This partly explains why season 5 was only OK compared to the brilliant seasons 3 and 4: they suspected that they might not be able to make it, so the final episode (ultimately shown as the final ep of season 5 when it did go ahead) was actually filmed at the end of season 4, and a lot of the details seem to have been moved forward a series to guarantee that they were there. Series 5 didn't fit in as well as the others, because most of it was expendable to the main story arc.
Personally, I would rather they hadn't made that final episode anyway, nor the official final episode to season 4 (the one jumping into the future more and more). IMHO, they should either have done season 5 properly, or have finished everything with Sheridan and Delenn on the ship on the way back to B5, with a stronger voice-over about space being ours to look after now. Alas, the TV execs apparently didn't leave this as an option they could plan for in advance.
The looking into the future episodes, particularly those so far ahead that all my favourite characters are long-dead and the universe has moved on, always diminished the scale of the main series to me, rather than showing how worthwhile it had all been as I suspect JMS intended. Far better to set another series slightly after the original -- as Crusade would have been, and the film apparently will be -- where you've got the grand framework of the main series as a backdrop, making a difference.
Oh, and the fates of Marcus and Lennier -- the only two truly honourable characters in the whole series -- were very sad, too. Their destinies may have been perfect for the reality of the series, but if we can save the whole universe, couldn't they at least have found room for two characters in five whole series to have the happy endings they deserved?
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
...maybe it will suck to most people or a lot of people won't care but this is one of the special cases where it won't matter a whit to me, because this series, this fantastic series, showed what vision is...yes, i will see this multiple times and enjoy every minute of it.
True. If it wasn't for the fact the Blake's 7 was the best sci-fi series ever.
(pointless nitpick: Incidentally guns can fire in vacuum and underwater and stuff because bullet propellant packs it's own oxygenation agent... Overheating would be a serious problem for conventional firearms in space though since there is no atmosphere to help carry the heat away.)
Anyway, one thing people should know about the DVD's: There are three episodes there that never aired on FOX. So if you saw everything on TV you haven't seen it all! Two of the unaired episodes were some of the best in the series (IMO).
wag more
bark less
And they also put it in the right order on the DVDs.
Je ne parle pas francais.
Galen was also the main character in the Technomage series of novels, which dealt primarily with the passing of the Technomages. The books also explain to us how Galen first met Gideon.
IMO, Galen is one of the coolest characters.
Babylon 5 jumped the shark when the Vorlons went evil and humanity managed to defeat both the Vorlons and the Shadows. They spent all that time building up up to the great climax and then it was over so fast.
Where are they going to get the Amiga/Toasters?
What techno-jargon? Babylon 5 had very little techno-jargon. Are you sure you aren't confusing it with Trek?
starting with The Gathering, when it was first televised. At first I wasn't all that impressed, and found the show confusing, but I stayed with it and it soon became my favorite SF series. Much of the fun was trying to figure out where the various loose threads would lead. I definitely recommend seeing the episodes in order and starting at the beginning, otherwise the show won't make much sense.
Babylon 5 was much more intellectually stimulating than other SF television series, and I have always loved "SF on a grand scale" as Greg Benford would put it; the Lensman and Skylark series of Doc Smith, and Benford's Galactic Center series are some of my favorites. Babylon 5 is definitely this type of story.
In general, I wasn't as impressed by the movies as by the series itself. I did like In The Beginning, and Thirdspace was kind of cool, but the others were somewhat disappointing compared to the original series. But compared to other television series such as Voyager or late season 2 to early season 3 Andromeda, before I lost interest and stopped watching it, they are quite good.
So I look forward to Memories of Shadows with eager anticipation.
By the way, I have met Joe Straczynski, his wife, and a good number of the Babylon 5 actors, and have found them to be pleasant people with a good sense of humor, fun to spend time with. I was deeply saddened by the death of Richard Biggs.
Although your a troll, I'll feed you...
This is a common criticism of B5, and it shows an utter lack of understanding of the series, and life in general.
Life is about evolution and development, in the greater sense as well as a personal sense. One of the biggest steps any person makes is stepping out of the shadows of their parents (pun intended) and walking off that cliff to fly (or fall) on their own. This is a concept that every person should be able to relate to (of course, I'm telilng this to an audience of geeks, the very people who rarely leave their parents' house!).
B5 took this story and expanded it to galactic proportions, literally. If your mind is capable of thinking in larger terms, then you see the parallel and appreciate it.
The conclusion of the Shadow war would have been SO much worse if they HAD been able to defeat both the Shadows and Vorlons through the use of force. The Shadows were only ever defeated in the past because the Vorlons had helped, but fighting both is an impossible task (they probably could not have defeated the Shadows militarily alone frankly). It HAD to end in some other way, and, as JMS has stated, they had to think their way out of it. They had to understand.
This is the same thing that happens for real kids... They rebel, they want to get out on their own, but the real point of epiphany is usually some years later when they realize that their parents were trying to help them all along, not oppress them, but now they are on their own and have to rely on themselves. That's when the rebellious teenagers become good children again, but now as self-sufficient adults.
B5 took this a step further and asked the question, what if we had two sets of parents with diametrically opposed points of view on how to raise the kids? The kids get caught in the middle obviously, the kids have to fight for the freedom, so to speak, and he parents lose their way because it becomes more about proving their point is right over the other parents.
If you don't get this, think it through. That of course is the whole point! Suffice it to say though that the Shadow war couldn't have ended any other way without sucking and making the entire thing a shame. This is, contrary to what many people say, the one ending that doesn't do that, but you have to understand it to see that.
If a pion (n-) collides with a proton in the woods & noone is there to hear it, does lamdba decay into the source pa
That was the Foxboro classic between the Oakland Raiders and New England Patriots with the imfamous "tuck":
:p
New England was moving down the field in a snow storm, under 2 minutes left in the game, down by 3. When the ball is snapped, Oakland comes with a cornerback blitz. Charles Woodson comes screaming in and totally blindsides Patriot QB Tom Brady. Brady drops the ball in an apparent force fumble, which Oakland recovers.
If this was how events occured, Oakland could've sat on the ball, run out the clock and won the game.
Turns out the referee decided to have a look at the fumble again in replay. This is where things get interesting.
What the referee saw was that Brady makes this little forward and back arm motion before Charlie lays wood to him. Most people would say this is akin to laying your lips to your ass before getting hit by a train. What the referee saw was NFL Rule 3, Section 21, Article 2. The "tuck rule".
Basically because Brady was moving his arm forward, he was "attempting a forward pass". The tuck rule also states that you can then return the ball to your side ("tucking" the ball back in). If the quarterback is hit while in the process of "tucking", 3.21.2 says the play should be ruled an incomplete pass.
What did this mean? It meant that Brady hadn't fumbled, so Oakland hadn't recovered. New England's drive was still alive. The reversal of fortune was also a Guillotine to the Raiders. Their defense slinked back to the line as Brady maneuvered in for Adam Vinateri to kick the game-tying field goal.
Waiting for the drop, New England marched down the field in overtime, kicking the decisive field goal over the stunned Oakland defense.
New England went on to upset the Rams in the Super Bowl. Oakland traded away their coach Jon Gruden... who went to Tampa Bay... and promptly beat Oakland next year in the Super Bowl. Both the Raiders and the Rams never really recovered from what the Patriots did to them in 2002.
New England goes on to become the premier NFL team. Their coach, Bill Belichick, once disgraced as a mumbling baffoon for his tenure with the Cleveland Browns, is recast as a defensive and player managing genius. New England goes on to win another Super Bowl two years later (an impressive feat in the parity dominated NFL) and win 25 (26?) straight games (ending this year with a loss to the Steelers). Tom Brady becomes the definition of clutch. The Patriots are held in awe for their selfless work ethic and lack of egotistical superstars. And they have a good shot at the Super Bowl this year.
Basically the game that Legend of the Rangers went up against was the one that defined the current state of the NFL. It was controversial, subjective and an instant classic. Personally? The only thing Brady was tucking was his tail between his legs. But as a Browns fan (who's had to watch all of this from the bottom of the NFL pile) I might be a little jealous
What is music when you despise all sound?
You mixed up Lando with Greedo.
Heute die Welt, morgen das Sonnensystem!
Of all the episodes to choose as your favourite, you pick the last one. Does that seem right to you?
Heute die Welt, morgen das Sonnensystem!
Take a look at the non-arc episodes of B5. There are a couple outstanding ones ("Passing Through Gethsemane" comes to mind) but IMHO the reason why Season 1 was so mediocre was that it was mostly these self-contained, 42 minute episodes, and JMS usually couldn't both create and conclude an engaging story in such a short time. I suspect that's the reason people didn't like "Crusade" - they were hoping it would be great from the first episode, but if it was anything like B5 then the whole first season was just laying groundwork for the good stuff later (or which would have come later, had there been no interference from the network and no cancellation).
Really, what JMS seems to need is the "4200 minute format". Anything less is like reading one chapter of a novel then stopping.
Babylon 5 is/was nifty but it too is almost in its own little word. A 5+ year story arc from the beginning is pretty unique.
Blake's 7 (it shared a miniscule effects budget with the good Doctor) and Firefly, on the other hand, are more like really good dysfunctional family dramas with spaceships. Among other things I was amazed Blakes 7 (usually) pulled off having a cranky computer as an interesting major character....I usually hate that sort of thing.
Those who like Blake's 7 and Firefly should also check out...and I know the name is horrible but trust me: "Star Cops". Like Blake's 7: a Chris Boucher series.
Personally I'm just happy to have a few sci-fi shows with some interesting plots and characters in them (and I include Enterprise in there of late).
I'm a big fan of the "near future" space genre. Another show I remember fondly was Space:above and beyond, which had a fairly short life on fox in the early 90's. I'm not sure if it stands the test of time, but I remember loving the boxy/square capital ships. No magical shields. The "bad guys" were mysterious and acted completely alien -which aliens should do-. And enjoyed how they current day plot lines i.e. racism, into the story arc. E.g. There were serious racial problems between the humans, and the "cloned human soldiers". Pretty cool stuff! Wish there was a box set or even a torrent I could find this stuff at. Also, if you're into that sort of sci-fi, there's a series of books called "the gap" by Stephen R. Donaldson which are just incredible! And they only get better from book to book! W00t!
Ambasador Kosh comes out of the closet
Very well stated. Admittedly, anyone who hasn't seen the vast majority of seasons 1-3 will likely have a hard time grasping how well the whole ending worked (even with your explanation)... But I agree that it was a perfect, and the only acceptable, ending to the plotline.
The Psi Corps Trilogy:
Dark Genesis
Deadly Relations
Final Reckoning
The first two books actually take place before most of the actual series, but there's some really good backstory involving the founding of the Psi Corps, and Bester's upbringing. The last book actually takes place near the end of the series, and ties up a lot of the litte loose ends left by the series. While the third book is the only one directly dealing with the Garabaldi/Bester situation, the first two are crucial for a plot point near the end of the book.
Legions of Fire (aka: The Centauri Prime Trilogy)
The Long Night of Centauri Prime
Armies of Light and Dark
Out of the Darkness
I'm still reading through these books, myself. This trilogy focuses on the events on Centauri Prime between the episdodes The Fall of Centauri Prime and Sleeping in Light. While there aren't as many unanswered questions regarding that storyline, it's been a good read so far, and hopefully the few unanswered questions (especially from War Without End) will get some answers by the time I get through the third book.
There's also a couple stand-alone novels that fill in some more of the series' backstory...
The Shadow Within shows what John and Anna Sheridan were doing during the expedition to Z'ha'dum. It's a good book, but not quite as essential to the overall plot as some of the others. You do get some pretty neat insight into one of the characters from the series, though.
To Dream In the City of Sorrows shows us what Sinclair was up to between the end of the first season and War Without End. Much like The Shadow Within, it's really more about filling in the backstory than resolving loose ends, but it's still worth checking out. There's also a trilogy of books revolving around the Techno-Mages, but I have yet to get around to those. For some reason, I was never a fan of them beyond their one episode in the second season of the show. I always felt them to be a little out of place in the B5 universe, and their frequent occurance in a lot of the more recent B5 stuff just seems like they're being crammed in. This is possibly why I'm not overly stoked about the brief description that we have of TMoS so far. It just seems like it's more likely to be a random story that just happens to take place in the B5 universe, instead of an extension on the original series. What I really would have liked to have seen is more elaboration on the Telepath War that takes place between the last two episodes of the series. There's some information about it in the last book of the Psi Corps trilogy, but not a whole lot.
The Lurker's Guide (already in the threads)
B5 quotes
More quotes
I Found Her - Free great B5 game (worthed a look)
Probably much more interesting links. I *really* liked B5. It helped me see things differently and actively participated in my "growing up". I published a Babylon 5 book of quotes if you're interested. Like many others, I fear a movie won't be good enough. One of the strengths of B5 was telling a story over countless episodes, not only 2 hours. Time will say.
"We create the future, with our words, our deeds and with our beliefs"
- Lady Ladira, B5: "Signs and Portents"
Animoog.org
First time I saw it, I'd agree. But having seen the whole series over again, I think the telepath war will be between teeps and teeps... much more interesting.
Actually, he would have been physically incapable of asking somebody else to take out Bester. Remember, Bester not only made it impossible for Garabaldi to hurt him directly, but also he couldn't allow Bester to come to harm through inaction. So even if he did get far enough to hire a hitman or something, he would most likely have been forced to stop it, as he would have known what was going to happen and would have been unable to not do anything to stop it.
Worst. Show. EVAR!
If B5 were to be filmed as a trilogy ala Lord of the Rings, then this could be an excellent arcing flick. Otherwise, it'll lose it's strength- which was the arc of Sheridan "ascending" and the like. I hope it goes well. I'm a big fan.
Why you fucker!!!! How dare you claim that I live in my parents's basement!!! I have my own house which is very nice and completely loaded with all kinds of technological marvels. Sorry, but B5 sucked ass. Anyone who likes it is a complete asshole. Sliders kicked B5s ass, but most of your dicks are too stupid to know what good science fiction is.
...yes at least the mods keep us happy after the The Babylon 5 Combat Simulator was canceled by Sierra.
I'm looking forward to the fan film Star Wreck: In the Pirkinning getting Finnished.
Movies on another site, the space battles, are kind of amusing, but pretty silly.
Irene KHAAAAAAN!
When I saw him at a convention in Columbus, OH, somewhere I think in the middle of season 4, he mentioned that he had a whopper of a story that he was saving for a feature film: the telepath war.
He foreshadowed this many times in season 5, throughout the Byron thread and other times, and (if I recall) referred to it in the finale episode.
The Memory of Shadows indeed appears to draw on the original Crusade story arc, which is delightful.
But it's interesting to know that there are more big stories to tell in the B5 universe.
You should. IMHO, they're the best novel B5 trilogy of the bunch.
The Passing of the Techno-Mages (aka: the Techno-Mage Trilogy)
Casting Shadows
Summoning Light
Invoking Darkness
For some reason, I was never a fan of them beyond their one episode in the second season of the show. I always felt them to be a little out of place in the B5 universe, and their frequent occurance in a lot of the more recent B5 stuff just seems like they're being crammed in.... It just seems like it's more likely to be a random story that just happens to take place in the B5 universe, instead of an extension on the original series.
The novels will give you a better feel for their place in the B5 universe. After all, the Techno-Mages make a point of hiding, so they will naturally seem totally peripheral. See the universe from their perspective and some things begin to make sense.
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
I have always loved "SF on a grand scale" as Greg Benford would put it; the Lensman and Skylark series of Doc Smith, and Benford's Galactic Center series are some of my favorites.
Slightly offtopic, have you tried the following?
-The "Reality Dysfunction" trilogy by Peter F. Hamilton
-David Weber's Honor Harrington series (first two novels available online at the Baen Free Library), starts with "On Basilisk Station"
-The Gap series by Stephen R.Donaldson
-The Miles Vorkosigan Series by Lois Mc Master Bujold
C - the footgun of programming languages
I seriously hope that it's not the pile of poorly-written trash that Legend of the Rangers was. That's the most recent B5 movie in my memory, and dear lord was it awful.
My memory is a little fuzzy, but back in the olden days when the original series was still being produced, I could have sworn that JMS had said he was working on a feature film based on the Telepath War called "Mind's Fire," or somesuch.
I'm a big fan of the original series. I still have my collection of every episode taped from cable (which I bought so I could get higher quality than broadcast) in SP mode, even though I've bought the DVDs as they've been released. I was in Vancouver, BC at the time, and when parts of it weren't immediately picked up for distribution there a small group of people would gather at a local sports bar who let us use their satellite feed to watch it.
That being said, everything that has come after the original series - A Call to Arms, Crusade, Legend of the Rangers - has IMO not been engaging at all. The problem for me has been that JMS keeps trying to introduce antagonists that use Shadow technology, or are like the shadows but more powerful, and it feels really stale. The Shadows are gone, let them rest in peace already.
I'll give this one a chance, but after Legend of the Rangers (couldn't he at least come up with a name that didn't betray his main influence *quite* so much?) my hopes are not high. Especially so given that this is going to feature not only a character from Crusade (bleh), but a technomage, who are my absolute least favourites out of the entire B5 universe.
I would have vastly preferred a Telepath War film.
"...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
Straight to video
And finally... "I could have at least boffed him."
I like to place meaningful quotes in my sig, so people will know that I know what meaningful quotes are.
DS9 and most of the newer ST series succeeded because they provided mindless entertainment. B5 was a great show because it didn't.
ST was mindless entertainment because every episode had the same plot, because the whole crew could be wiped out at the end of an episode and be alive for the start of the next. There was no continuity at all. ST did not require you to watch most episodes. With the newer STs someone could watch only one episode their entire life and understand 90%. The discontinuity of ST is really annoying. In addition ST has a very unrealistic take on the future, it's sterile.
On the other hand if you watched B5 from the beginning it drew you in. It carried the tension of the story from week to week. It was the type of show where it was a big deal to miss an episode, not many shows do that anymore. B5 portrayed a more realistic fiction, there was dirt, the heroes were not perfect, actions carried with them responsibilities.
In short B5 made sense. ST made me cringe.
Sig is on vacation
Nope, B5 is the best. Firefly was great, and it had a *ton* of promise. As a first season, it was way above average. It kicked many an ass.
... powerful quality when you watch it, in order, first to last. Something I've not seen in any other TV show, including Firefly.
But with B5, we have seen it all, not just part of the first season. Maybe if FF had lived, maybe in 5 years after 5 seasons of Firefly, I'd be agreeing with you... But it was hardly more than a mini-series in practice.
Mmm... B5. We just started watching Season 1 again now that snow has fallen. B5 has a very
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
I think you're wrong. The very saving grace of ST was that you had continuity. Not this ebb and flow of characters that B5 seemed to overdo. While ST might be "unrealistic" in it's take on the future, it's an example of what everyone should strive for. What point is there to life if we are not striving for the ultimate perfect society that is unattainable? Everything I do in my daily life I try to do my best. Whether it's following every trafic and street sign, or working on a project at my job. I try to treat everyone fairly. Programmes like B5 only server to separate people and point out differences. This is a bad thing. We should all accept each other's differences by striving to be the same. In short, B5 made me worry and ST gave me hope.
Another show I remember fondly was Space:above and beyond, which had a fairly short life on fox in the early 90's.
... I never thought the music of Patsy Cline and Tchaikovsky would fit so well back-to-back :)
Absolutely. SAAB was something of the opposite of babylon 5's disaster: hokey cheezy premise, but executed fantastically. The two-part episode of "Chiggie von Richthoven" was stupendous
I am no longer wasting my time with slashdot
What I wonder here is, how can you make something as compelling as a 5 year series in a 2 hour movie?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
And, with that, her White Star begins opening a serious can of whoop-ass on the Earthforce ships...
Be who you are...and be it in style!
I watched a couple eps - I was not impressed. Then again I've never been impressed by Joss Whedon's work.
And Babylon 5 had a tendency to get a little... overimportant? Something. I didn't like the look very much either.
I always liked DS9, but that was mainly for the character development and darker plotline rather than sci-fi aspects. Personally I think they could make a great movie out of that, better than the Next Generation films anyway.
Farscape could make an interesting movie, but again that's not so much due to the SF aspects (which could get more than a little flaky, though their alien design was better than many) but because sometimes it seemed like they were holding back due to TV restrictions. But a film could be really wild. And yay alien full-frontal sex scene!
Going a bit backwards in time, the original movie for Alien Nation was a very novel SF concept for TV and much better than the TV series. I think we're due for a retreatment of Buck Rogers. Red Dwarf was the only SF comedy worth mentioning, but would need extensive reworking for the big screen.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
Space: A&B was great!
I had to get a fancopy of it from montreal (all of it on 3 tapes) but it is from broadcast on fox (with commercials cut) and the quality isn't the best..but still, I would buy it on DVD. Someone in the UK wanted to do it on DVD but it would have cost $~400
RoundTop
Deep Space: 9
Babylon: 5
... Duck Dodgers in the 25th 1/2 Century?
"The dew has clearly fallen with a particularly sickening thud this morning"
"DUCK DODGER in the 24th and a half CENTURY!"
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Woohoo!
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Agreed, though I thought the best acting was by the chicken vindaloo and lager.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
Anyone know where I can rent Babylon 1 through 4?
*badda boom*
FireFly is the most underrated Sci-Fi series..ever.
Bab 5 had several seasons, won a Hugo, was mentioned on the Drew Carey show a few times.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I believe I've seen all the episodes of that show. That's the two episodes I remember best. Both of the ships pulled maneouvers that most aircraft can't, but are perfectly possible, from the standpoint of Newtonian physics. The first time I saw that, my jaw hit the floor (it was on Fox, at the time).
So much of that show was believable from a miltary standpoint; I'd just finished a four-year stint in Uncle Sam's Air Force, so that got my attention, as well. I mean, you WANT a C.O. who is a kick-butt warrior, who can pull off minor miracles like that. One of my C.O.'s in the Air Force was some scrawny, balding, older guy who didn't look like much till you put him the cockpit. He was a former instructor at the Air Force Fighter Weapons School (Air Force version of Top Gun), could suck up G's like few others (you don't have to be a muscle-bound brute to make an F-16 tap-dance; light weight is actually an advantage), and royally kicked a-- in the air.
I was sad to see that show go. It had plenty of room for stories, plenty of believable tech, decent characters, etc. I guess pleople like me just aren't a big enough target demographic to support it, though.
... by the Dew of Mountains the thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning
Anyhow, the story's been told; it's finished. Anything after that is going to be a disappointment.
Kind of like "Galactica 1980".
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
Who the hell is Steven Beck and why is he being entrusted to direct a big-budget sci-fi film? If this movie sucks, something tells me it will suck because of this inexperienced dude.
People seem to love modding me down for pointing out their stupidity and arrogance...
Question though. Wouldn't the 'cold of space' relieve the problems with overheating.
I second Ziviyr's thought. (Buy the DVD's.)
/., and I know we hate the MPAA/Networks/RIAA/whatever, but a big part of what we dislike is the fact that what they create is invariably dumbed down for the lowest common denominator of viewers.
This is
We need to support shows that hold the line on quality programming.
Also, from what I've seen on the web, JMS has also resisted the temptation to exploit B5 by merchandising crappy products. Instead he's allowed fans to produce products for fans.
-- I have monkeys in my pants.
It always seemed to me that the fates of Neroon and Lennier got switched. Wouldn't it have made more sense for Lennier to sacrifice himself on the Starfire wheel and have Neroon get all possessive and nasty over Delenn?
On Epsilon Erdari 3, "You don not choose the great machine, the great machine chooses YOU"
Not to mention it was well before Starcraft...
Was Firefly the one that started off with a wild-west planet and the heroes flying their spaceship over a locomotive train, extracting buddies from danger? That turned me right off and I never watched again.
"But all your emitter and collector are belong to me!"
The poor guy who played Jeff Sinclair just wasn't a very good actor. I keep wondering how he got the job. I, too, had given up on B5 in the first season and my friend Bryan pointed out how great the writing was, and I finally started noticing that and how genuinely great ALL the other actors were.
And the rest is TV history.
O~ Him that studies revenge keeps his own wounds green. -- Francis Bacon
Here's how heat works: matter is made of molecules. Those molecules vibrate with a certain amount of vim & vigor. This energy is what we call heat. The more energetic the vibrating, the hotter something is. When temperature changes, it is because a vibrating molecule touches one that's vibrating less and passes some of that energy over, just like those toys where a series of balls on strings passes the energy of one ball 0-0-0-0-0 to the one on the far end. With heat though, they average out so they're all vibrating about the same. So when a hot thing touches the AIR, which is colder, the heat dissipates out, cooling the hot thing.
Space is empty though, a vacuum. It's cold because there's no matter there to hold heat, and what matter there is doesn't vibrate very energetically. When a hot thing like a gun or a rocket engine or whatever is floating in space, it's not touching a colder thing to pass the heat off to. Maybe that's why they had to put Vera (Jane's favorite gun) in a space suit to shoot her.
O~ Him that studies revenge keeps his own wounds green. -- Francis Bacon
Not so much overheating, but the problems of vaccum welding of the moving parts and the fact that many lubricants don't work at all in vacuum and cold could cause a weapon to fail to function. Thus, putting Thelma in a suit to fire at the Reavers made sense, not that Josh Whedon understood that bit of physics...
There is no God, and Dirac is his prophet.
Great writing, definitely, but the one thing I found really strange was during The Train Job episode, when they encountered the Reavers in space. Two ships, heading in opposite directions between planets, and they just happen to cruise past each other at a rate of only a few meters per second. You'd think they'd zip past each other, or even if the systems slowed down the ships for crash avoidance it would automatically put more distance between them. Still, it gave the scene the tension they wanted to portray.
Last episode? The episode you're describing was the season finale for season 3, right at the height of the shadow war story arc. There were two complete seasons after that...
IIRC, on one run of the show on Channel 4 in the UK, Babylon 5 was originally only aired up to season 3, and they couldn't get the rights for seasons 4 and 5. So it's not beyond the realm of possibility for some people to think that S3 was the last season of the show.
A B5 synopses page contains a summary of the next-to-last S3 episode, and at the bottom there's a bit of explanation of what happened with Channel 4.
"Every jumbled pile of person has a thinking part that wonders what the part that isn't thinking isn't thinking of"-TMBG
For those worried about there not being anything in relation to the Telepath War, just remember the clues to the use of Telepaths in Shadow ships, and the seemingly secret ties to PsiCorps and the Shadow Tech agreement in Clark's regime... ;)
:)
TMoS may still be about the Telepath War, as well as a few other good threads...
-JackN
Babylon 5 is the best SF series.
Firefly is the best SF MINI-series.
Vera, not Thelma.
"Prejudice is wrong; you should hate everyone the same."
A low budget ST wannabee is all I ever saw in it, and even bringing in Walter Koenig wasn't enough to make this something impressive. I'm amazed it last even one season.
Cause and effect my friend.
Without B5 there never WOULD have been a new wave of non ST scifi. They pioneered the use of SIGNIFICANT CGI scenes, "real" space and as close to "real" physics as a good story allows. Yes, their space suits looked more like hazmat suits and the sets were a little dodgy, but the were made with a shoestring budget. However; Character driven stories, an underlying thread that continues regardless of the episode... all the things that make firefly great and, indeed, meant that Battlestar 2k was quite watchable also; were born in B5.
Moreso that startrek, B5 and JMS ensured we would have a continuing future of SCI FI on television as they demonstrated, over rocky roads, that you didnt have to be star trek to make money...
Either way, you can pry both firefly and B5 from my cold dead hands... dont RENT the DVDs, buy them. Every firefly dvd set sold is a big fuck you very much to the Fox network that killed it for "poor ratings".
err!
jak
C4 did show all of B5.
DUno about the best, good , but not best
Excellent point, thanks!
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Regarding lubricants: most firearms lubricants these days use teflon suspension in a hydrocarbon medium. I suppose the hydrocarbons would freeze but the teflon should still prevent bonding for some time, shouldn't it?
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Ah yes, the mystical physics of dramatic license! And they thought String Theory would explain it all... not quite! Not even the mightiest theoretical infrastructure can begin to delve the murky depths of hollywoodism.
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You shouldn't let that turn you off... It's great writing!... Way above the TV par.
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Of the few episodes I saw of this, my favorite character was the Toaster. A pretty damned funny show, but more zany Brit comedy than Sci Fi.
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I didn't care much for firefly the couple episodes I saw on TV then watched the DVD's and liked it quite a bit. Sad it got cancelled. Fox for some reason aired the episodes out of order?
I also had same problem with farscape, started watching some in like 3rd season and didn't care for it. When I watched it from start to end I loved it and was sad when that got canceled too.
I see a trend forming.
If some of you guys are still skeptical, go to Netflix and open a free-trial account... then watch all 4 DVD's for free! I bet a bunch of you will be buying the set for keeps, bemoaning FOX's tragic cluelessness for having canceled the series prematurely, and eagerly awaiting the upcoming movie before this year is out :)
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Yeah, must of my stuff doesn't have very much insight of late. Perhaps its the lack of inspiration from the articles that are being posted. However, I did get excited over the recent article of Flash used in devices. So there is no need to provide the sarcastic comment. I am just posting my thoughts, whether they are deemed spam bait or not doesn't really impact my life any. I suppose some people take the posting process way too seriously.
just a web application developer and instructor in Toronto, ON Canada
For some reason I envision someone standing at a podium flapping their arms about while they say those words :)
Such flowery prose for Slashdot.
Oh, yes! "Marines In Space". It used all the cliches (remember the ep where they did silent running on a cargo ship in order to bait and hook the Chig?). Wonderful show, limited scope but so well executed. As you say, the exploration of racism and torture ("Wang, Paul") beautifully explored for SF. Fortunately I still have some on VHS.Sigh. Babylon 5 was and is my favourite show but JMS's antics have not stood the test of time very well. The five-season four-season stuff wasted it for me. Better to view it now without the whole fifth season (but for "Sleeping In Light"). Crusade was just scraping the barrel. "I know, let's have a human Kosh Wise Old Man archetype this time!"
I'm sorry, I haven't seen Firefly, but having seen an episode of Buffy, and read countless writing about Joss Whedon, I can't see how this compares. I seem to be Whedon-immune. The SF pot seems to have gone off the boil.
Oddly, the only thing that does compare in some respects is the Harry Potter phenomenon. It has surprising depth for an ostensibly child-oriented work. And if you can watch the new movie (recommended even if you haven't got an eight year-old HP fan daughter) without thinking how Shadow-like the Dementors are... I keep thinking I see hints in the books (I read to her every night) of influence, but perhaps I'm looking through tinted spectacles.
I can forgive the odd dramatic glitch like this. It's a show after all. It's the noises in space and "reverse polarity" bollocks that really gets my goat. No amount of "dramatic license" can excuse that. Hey, and Firefly banished "reverse polarity" to the rim as well. Kudos to Josh Wheldon!
I suppose the biggest dramatic decision was to avoid using aliens (the rubber suits). Most other series get away with a lot of things with that, aliens and/or alien technology coming in at a point where the writer's imagination flags. It forces the attention on the characters.
I'm still peeved about the massive story arcs left hanging in space by the cancellation of the series. Fox suxx. Bigtime.
Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious
Wondering where fan-produced Londo dolls can be found. It'd have to be hilarious...
Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
Dude, this is like the "Carry On" of Sci Fi TV, particularly towards the later series when they start using the Starbug. Rimmer as Kenneth Williams, Kryton as Matron? Yeah, "Carry On In Space". Bleargh.
I liked RD when every 3rd line was a joke. When the "joke" level got to be every line, it got tedious. IIRC - and this maybe memory playing tricks - that was about the time it tried to translate itself to the US and the mournful signature tune at the beginning was swapped with the closing song.
h
Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious
The biggest thing that turns me away from anime is the increasing size of the characters' eyes when compared with original anime classics.
The drawings are just so god-damned ugly and laughable with characters that have eyes bigger than their fists and noses smaller than their thumb nails. And the ridiculously coloured hair... The Japanese do have rather strange tastes!
Going to replace the original cast with "Big Name" stars! :O
WTF?
I can see it now... Samuel L. Jackson as Capt. John Sheridan!
-JackN
And Gary Cole is currently acting in The West Wing as the vice-president...
Yea baby! Old news, but nice to get a filming date!!