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Star Trek: Enterprise in Danger of Being Cancelled
jkcity writes "According to Cinscape.com The Star Trek Enterprise set is awash with rumour that it will not be renewed for a 4th season, It was previous told it was safe by UPN but so was Enteprise's lead-out show Jake 2.0 which was just Cancelled. Star Trek: Enterprise has also been reduced to 24 episodes this season by UPN, things don't look good for the Star Trek Television Franchise and after the flop of Star Trek: Nemesis it could be many years before we ever see any new Star Trek outside of books."
Shame, enterprise was the only good one.
Still, too many of them are too 'lets break all the rules, oh and against all the odds it all works out'.
and wtf kind of captain keeps risking his ship and thousands of crew to save one or two people?
plain stupid
Since Brannon and Braga forced a meltdown of Voyager around Season 5, all broadcast and motion picture Star Trek has been sub quality.
does anybody care?
I can't imagine why.
--
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Without attracting a troll modifier, I'm glad. The genre is now sufficiently well-established that there are other franchises (Farscape spin-off anyone?) who could do more interesting things with the Network's money.
It's sad letting our favourite things end, but moving on is cool too.
The Slashdot Paradox: "100% Overrated"
Could it be that such innovative plot twists as alien 768 is an alien because it's got REALLY funny headbumps isn't enough to entertain the audience anymore?
I loved TNG, liked DS9, and my attention started to waver half way through Voyager...that said, I'm impressed that they could keep it going for another series and a half. I gave them much more of my time than I would have given ANY other medoicre show. Looks like I'm not the only one that managed to stop watching this year. (Funny, I didn't miss it, either.)
I turned Enterprise on last week while channel surfing to find it was the exact same formula that's been used every week for the last _five_ years. (0:06 mystery, 0:23 find out mystery is horrible threat, 0:42 make threat seem impossible to overcome, 0:58 solve problem with seconds to spare, 0:59 have credits roll over zany laughing cast.)
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
Thank god.
As May West would say, 'Too much of a good thing is still too much.' and that's where the Star Trek shows have ended up being- too much.
I haven't caught much of this year's seasion, really don't care one way or the other, but then again, I feel the same way about most of TV.
III.IIVIVIXIIVIVIIIVVIIIIXVIIIXIIIIIIIIVIIIIVVIII
I think Enterprise is a pretty decent series (compared the the dreck of 'reality tv' and teenage melodrama) and would hate to see it gone. I think their Tucker-clone episode was especially good and topical for a network TV show.
UPN is a bit of a misfit channel (not available in my area). They'd be better off still making it and selling it for syndication to whomever wants to broadcast it. Of maybe SciFi channel will pick it up. WOuld make a far better choice than continuing the 'battlestar glactica' kitch-remakes!
Crossing my fingers....
and we will sick the borg on you and turn you into a FOX look alike.
They cancelled that show two years ago. I think they may have had a few episodes after the pilot.
I have been pwned because my
Can't say I'd care too much. I never could get into Enterprise. I'd say let it die and try again with a new series. Next Gen and Deep Space were soooo much better. I'll just keep watching them instead, for now.
Creator of the popular web game Proximity
Even the books are few and far between now. Used to be one or two new ones every month, now its more like 1 every 4-6 months.
They will remove my only reason to keep staring at the tv.
I actually liked that show, one of the few actually good shows on TV IMHO. Still, perhaps its best if the franchise goes away for awhile, it'll resurface in a few years anyway with the making of a remake movie. They'll call it Star Trek: S.W.A.T.
captain's log: stardate 1982, brown with corn chunks. Rather relaxing if i do say so myself.
There was one good episode where they find the borg ship that crashed in First contact. They should have just continued with that instead of some Xindi crap. That may have made the show at least slightly watchable. The show deserves to be cancelled.
As much as Enterprise sucks it's still one of UPN's highest rated shows.
Why?
Everything else on UPN is worse.
YES! I'd be soo happy if they cancelled that show. Startrek has been serving up crappy sci-fi for years and it time for it to just go.
Maybe it's time for the franchise to take a rest. I was a fan of the original series. Then with TNG came out, after the first season, I started to get interested (I think the actors didn't really find their characters until mid-second series).
I know a lot of people enjoyed DS9, though I didn't really care for it that much. I personally enjoyed a number of episodes of Voyager.
But maybe it's time to let things rest for a while. Maybe come back to it in 5 or 10 years with some fresh ideas and in the meantime, let people build up their appetite for it again as well. I think they've just really gotten to the point where their grasping for new story ideas and nothing is really drawing people in to the series. Maybe it's just me. I watched a few episodes of Enterprise. It's not bad, but it's not that great either.
People have high expectations of the Star Trek franchise, and if they're not going to be able to meet those expectations, they ought to let it rest until they can. But that's just my opinion.
It just occurred to me to ask the question of why Enterprise needs to be on every week for each new season? Why not go with a mini-series every year. The hype increases, there is more latitude to do something different and there is less danger of worrying about ratings.
Just a thought....
Jake 2.0 hasn't even started over in the UK yet, and its already cancelled! Another good buy by Sky!
Enterprise is a good series, much grittier than TNG, on a par with DS9. Pity to see it go.
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Whoopses. Sky over here in the UK is heavily plugging Jake 2.0 which is due to start in February.
Nothing like starting to watch a series which has already been canned!
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unlike hollywood movies, these shows seem to be made ONLY for the American market. I am surprised, because most of the other countries in the world do end up watching a lot of american shows; also, these shows come to these other countries MUCH after the american cycle. If these shows do become a hit abroad, everyone comes out a loser - the fans can't get enough - the producers can't give enough. I guess these guys don't think big enough and are still stuck in an old business model. Sighh... so much creativity, expense and skill - all for nothing
|/________
|\A|ALYS|
Good!
Not to knock the entirety of Star Trek, but the recent "Franchises" (do you want fries with that?) have been crap. I could barely watch Star Trek: A Three Hour Tour, and Star Trek: Boobies and Scott Bakula was not even worth the John Tesh opening theme. I'm not saying the age old "Ever since Gene died...blah blah blah", but the corporates at Paramont really have taken over and pissed on the whole deal.
There are better sci-fi shows out there: Bablylon 5, Farscape, Stargate SG-1, to name a few. Some are in threat of being cancelled or already in limbo. Support THOSE! Try to revive the GOOD series!
Let Star Trek die the death it has been begging for since ST:DS9 ended. Don't let it drag on. (Flame on!)
Zodiac Survey
Well, it worked. It also helps that the show is nothing at all like Star Trek. Basic premise of every episode: Let's take a good idea from TOS or TNG, update it with a new cast and new effects, and completely ruing the meaning!
A recent episode had what seemed like interstellar terrorists on it. The theme was a sort-of "with us or against us" thing, as if the episode had come straight out of a propaganda machine. I don't need my Star Trek telling me what to think. I want my Star Trek making me think. That's what Trek was always best at: making people think about things. What if? Why? The settings was incidental. The effects were irrelevant. The story was what mattered. Enterprise ditched that and focused on everything else. The result?
Star Trek Lite: It tastes bland and isn't very filling, but people accept it anyway.
The sad thing is the cast works. I think Backula does a great job, and I loved his role in Quantum Leap. Phlox is pretty entertaining. But these few perks just can't make up for the general disarray of the series.
And don't even get me STARTED on Star Trek timeline continuity. If Trek continuity were a person, it would be time for it to seek rape consoling! The Borg episode... the Romulans? What the hell? Have the writers ever even watched any of the previous Treks?
Sorry Enterprise, but I can't say I will miss you.
"To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking
Much has been said about the control that Gene Roddenberry had over the Star Trek franchise & many have criticised the power he had over it.
However, under Roddenberry, we were at least guaranteed a cohesive Star Trek universe.
"Enterprise", I'm told at least, did not fit into the pre-Kirk Trek universe and deliberately did not do so. The lame excuse that Rick Berman/Brannon Braga gave for this was that events in "First Contact" caused the timeline to be changed.
Berman & Braga have made a complete hash of Trek since they got their grubby paws on the franchise that has seen it deteriorate more and more since Roddenberry's passing - TNG was, on the whole, excellent, DS9 had a poorish start but improved as things went on, Voyager had a handful of good stories and Enterprise was a complete waste of time.
I watched the first series, hoping to see an improvement and then gave up with it. Recently, I tuned into a repeat episode (possibly 2nd series) to see a plot stolen straight out of "Enemy Mine" (human and alien stranded together on a planet) & was shocked at how unoriginal the plots had become.
The only good thing about Trek recently is that my lack of enthusiasm for it has caused me to go buy the Babylon 5 DVDs (I missed all but a hndful of episodes when it was shown on TV) and to restore my faith in good, well-made science fiction TV series.
Braga & Berman can go sit on the scrapheap - I'll not lose any sleep over it...
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
With each new iteration, Star Trek distorts and dilutes its own mythos. I thought this would be an interesting take on Starfleet's early history, with raw, unpolished versions, or complete absence of, the day to day technologies that the TOS and later crews used and of course modified at the eleventh hour to avert a crisis. The writers wasted no time updating/uprating Enterprises' systems and accoutrements ("phase pistols" anyone?) so now the ship is nearly indistinguishable from its descendants. The exploration oriented format is too similar to the preceding shows. The TOS crew have earned a Campbell-esque place in our pantheon of modern day mythic heroes. Picard may ascend to that pinnacle. Janeway and Cisko never will. Neither will Jonathan Archer. Star Trek is in a decadent stage. A long hiatus with no series and no movies would serve everyone best, giving both the general public and hardcore fans some time to build up some real desire. Hire completlely new writers and give them years, if need be, to come up with a really fresh take. Some ideas for a next Trek: How about a show with a built-in limited lifespan, starting right at the post-Shuttle era, and ending with Archer's Enterprise? Each season would be a complete epoch, showing the development of the technology, and the adaptation of people to long-term life in space. Another idea: breakdown of the Federation. It collapses sometime after Picard's retirement, and a starship crew makes the rounds restoring order to worlds and rebuilding alliances. Once again, a series that's planned out ahead of time to run for a certain number of seasons. See, the open-ended nature of each Star Trek series is the problem. I hope the next writers come up with something great, but most importantly, KEEP FOCUSED!
That repetitive drivel like Enterprise gets to last this long while the ream gems (FireFly, Farscape) pass away tragically.
Those shows had more originality, creativity and quality writing than the Star Trek franchise can hope to match. Not to say that Star Trek wasn't good and original in its day, but that day has passed.
I recently showed Firefly to a housemate for the first time, he was hooked after the pilot. After each episode (we just finished the last one), he sits in stunned amazement, quietly saying "why was this cancelled?". It's sad really.
...just how much a (post-original) Trek show has to suck before they'll pull the plug.
Now that this has been empirically verified, let's never conduct this experiment again please.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
Good news... Enterprise was the weakest of them all. The vulcan girl is a shallow ripoff of Seven of Nine, and the episodes are not that enjoyable. It's a bit embarassing for true trekkies to see a captain who's not very smart and seems to be ruled by emotion and prejudice. Instead of good stories it's just a shallow action show with lots of shooting and fighting now. It's the best thing to stop it now before it sinks to new lows.
Disclaimer: This is not a troll nor flamebait, but a talking point.
Much of the discussion about "how much Trek sucks" usually ends up blaming Rick Berman. How much of this is his fault here? I have no judgement, but I'm tossing this out for discussion's sake.
I think my personal opinion is thus: Create work that is quality, and I will consume it.
I thought that's how the system was supposed to work... but yet, somehow, shows like UPN's planned "reality" show chronicling the wacky misadventures of Amish teens have more marketability than (insert your genre of interest here).
I think they keep trying to draw audiences by injecting episodes with BIG ACTION and SEXY SITUATIONS... well, that's not what made TNG good. TNG was good because of interesting ideas that were expanded on, often very subtly, sometimes without any threat to human life.
And every episode seems to follow a plot that's been done, what, like three, four times on previous Trek shows? My advice to save Enterprise is to fire Brannon and Braga, and hire only writer s that have never worked on any of the shows before. Keep around a 'bible' expert for continuity, but look for talented writers and producers. This is what will save the show.
Random rants about technology: http://technorants.blogspot.com
Its sad to see the "Star Trek Franchise" fail so misserably. But after Nemesis and Enterprise, it seems like they finally killed it for good.
:-/
The entire idea of a pre-quel sounded hokie from the start. But well, I did try to like it
I still think Deep Space 9 was the best series. It could have used one or two more seasons.
---- join dshield.org Distributed Intrusion Detec
Well if they are going to cancel it please make sure we get some closure as there is nothing worse than just leave something hanging. At least let Enterprise go out on a high if not up to the standard of DS9/TNG.
Rus
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.. but that just opinion.
Seems ST fans are split into two camps. Those sexless beasts who think NG and DS9 were anything but boring, blunt edged morality lessons and those of us who preferred the edgier, we're not perfect but we're trying approach of Voyager and Enterprise.
I really think it's time ST was rethought for the 21st century.. give us real, imperfect people and real moral dilemmas.. let's see more of what the universe is really like 'out there' instead of having to watch the dry antics of a bunch of boy scouts and diplomats.
More Janeway, Trip, Archer, T'Pol, Chakotay, Kirk, Bones, Barclay... less Picard, Riker, Guinan.
That means room for another reality show!!! Yee haw!
I'm sorry, but so what? Star Trek jumped the shark as soon as they threw that half-baked Battlestar Galactica rip-off, Voyager, on the air. (Don't agree? Borg = Cyclons, Voyager = Galactica, far from home and lost.) Berman and Braga fucked up what could potentially be a great series by trying to do the same stupid Time War shit they did with Voyager, etc.
In the end, as much as I find the characters interesting, I just can't bring myself to care too much about the premature end of this five-year mission. You can't keep a show running, much less grabbing public interest, based on potential. This show had it, but it failed to deliver on it.
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The "Flop of Nemesis"???
*smacks forhead*
How about this: Don't release movie number 10 in a series of niche movies a weekend before one of the most anticipated movies of all time, which had been promoted for several years, comes out.
I didn't have a problem with nemesis. I actually liked it. Did I go see it in a theatre? No, i saved my $15 for Lord of the Rings. Duh.
~Will
sig?
Star Trek and Star Wars are a blight upon the land of science fiction. Too many talented people have been diverted into manufacturing "product" for these bloated franchises. Maybe when Star Trek is gone, will have more room in prime time for new and original science fiction shows.
If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go, because, man, they're gone!
Star Trek had it's time, now let it go.
One more crippling bombshell hit the already discouraged and defeated Star Trek franchise when UPN confirmed that Enterprise has dropped yet again after Voyager showed to be a miserable failure as well. Coming on the heels of a recent Gallop survey which plainly states that Rick Berman has lost the peoples confidence in his ability to innovate and make progress, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. The Star Trek franchise is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the ratings.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict Enterprise's future. The hand writing is on the wall: Enterprise faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for Enterprise because Enterprise is dying. Things are looking very bad for Enterprise. As many of us are already aware, Enterprise continues to lose viewers. Red ink flows like a river of blood.
The Star Trek franchise is the most endangered science fiction franchise of them all, having lost 93% of its core nerds. There can no longer be any doubt: Enterprise is dying.
All major surveys show that Enterprise has steadily declined in consumer confidence. Enterprise is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If Enterprise is to survive at all it will be among sci-fi dilettante dabblers. Enterprise continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, Enterprise is dead.
Fact: Enterprise is dying
Amazingly Galaxy Quest showed that something different could be done and done well. However their actors weren't exactly bad either. Having Sigourney Weaver play "the girl with a chest" was great. Alan Rickman with Nimoy's "I'm not Spock"Angst, Tim Allen out-Shatnering Shatner.
It was funny and of course, it couldn't work without TOS and the TOS actors. Actually, I guess thats what drew me to Farscape to, intelligent sci-fi but with drama and oddball humour. The only really quirky character we have in Enterprise is the doctor.
First of all. How did Nemesis do vs. the other StarTrek movies? And how much have it earned outside the U.S? I personally found Nemesis to be quite good, one of the better ST movies.
Secondly. IMHO, Enterprise is by far the best of the ST series, it beats the hell out of TNG. There is however one HUGE flaw in Enterprise: The terrible theme music, it really makes me want to throw the TV out of the window.
Just my 0.02
"Civis Europaeus sum!"
Well they are just about to premier Jake 2.0 here in the UK on Sky. Prehaps I won't watch it as don't need to get hooked onto something if there isn't any way of it lasting the distance. Of course I don't know if it is any good..
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I always got the impression that Star Trek never got over the "tree-hugging hippy" mentality in TNG. The borg had to be sidelined as they would have required StarFleet to actually engage in genocidal war, same with the dominion in DS9, with the magic techno engine fix etc. There is, however, one way to save the franchise, Section 31. The people who came up with the virus which was killing the Dominion. It would see Bashir join Section 31, moral compromises all around!
I never really appreciated the "poor quality on purpose" production of Star Trak Enterprise, until I watched Sci-Fi's Battlestar Galactica remake.
B.G.'s figthers were pathetically "old school". They used real missiles, and bullets it seemed like.
But, this made the series much more real!
Also, in B.G., going over speed of light was a really "weird" feeling for travelers.
All this reminding us that nobody has figured out how to break Einsteins T.O.R. That it's truly impossible to go the speed of light without collapsing the entire universe.
----
I hope this doesn't cancel the concept of "Old School" reality.
Sci-fi fans have higher expectations from series these days. We just don't like episodic television. Lost in space was over 30 years ago.
Events from one episode have to influence future ones. Babylon 5 did this. So did Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The Star Trek franchise managed to learn this in the end with DS9, but now they've totally forgotten. Season 3 has had a couple of references to the Xindi backstory, but really we need more than that. We never get the feeling anything has happened after an episode has finished.
Paramount doesn't even seem to want to try. There were clear signs of a subversive effort to change this in Voyager, with Janeway slowly losing it in Equinox, but then the franchise backed away. At the end of that episode all was forgiven and forgotten. Chakotay decided that going on the Ahab revenge thing and locking him in the brig was only a minor misunderstanding, and they could still be friends.
First, it sucks.
Second, even if it is great, who is going to watching it in a Trek saturated market? First there was 7 years of Next Generation, then 7 years of DS9, then 7 years of Voyager. Let's face it, only the most devoted Trek fan would bother to watch Enterprise, and there are not enough of those types to give the show sufficient ratings.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
A review at the beginning of the season in USA Today brought up some very good points on the lack of focus in Enterprise. Although Paramount wants you to think they took the show for a dramatic twist this season, nothing really has changed. They are still exploring the unknown, which is what they have been doing the first two seasons. Nothing to see here, move along.
To fix Enterprise they need to:
Be a little more subtle with public commentary. Compare Similitude with TOS's Let That Be Your Last Battleground
More friction among the crew.
Lose the T'Pol-Tucker story line
Slow DOWN THE TRANSPORTER!!!! It's faster than The Original Series'!
There have been a couple good episodes:
Shockwave
Chosen Realm
And a lot of duds:
A remake of Data's Day: Dear Doctor
An A-Team episode: Marauders
And just a really lame episode: Extinction
What, me worry?
Star Trek lost its appeal when we were forced to endure Wesley Crusher...and Capt. Jayneway (sp) :::puke:::
The only good SciFi/Fantasy now is found on DVD. Home Theatre, DLP front projection has helped me rediscover movies I have never seen a a big screen. Classics like Them, The Thing, Nosferatu, The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, Metropolis, Altered States, 2001, Time Bandits and Extended Eds of LOTR...
Sitting in your own couch in comfort with a 7 foot wide screen, a beer, bowl of popcorn with your friends and family for a moive night what could be better....
Screw Television....and plasma or big screen TVs for that matter...
...IMHO Enterprise should make a whole lot more of the fact that they're much closer to NASA, military outfits, etc, than the others.
Which doesn't mean technology which doesn't work as well... it means a completely different social structure and way of doing things... the crew shouldn't be one big happy family.
I have yet to see a really entertaining episode (although I admit I've only watched five or six random ones).
I suppose I should probably accept that I'm not in the target demographic... although exactly what the target demographic is, I'm not sure. As a 19-year-old compsci student I should be quite a good bet for sci-fi...
That holiday season, I chose to see two of the three movies -- Bond lost out.
Nemesis was better than all the odd-numbered movies, even though it was the weakest of the even-numbered movies.
ok.. enogh of phantasy and planning the future... lets build a warp ship! startrek was always kind of the best way mankind could develop, and enterprise being the most interesting part of that development (after the extreme hightech we ve seen in voy)... i enjoyd ent... :(
>season, It was previous told it was safe by UPN but so was Enteprise's
Ah yes, the editing is hard at work.
"It was previous told..."
Personally after being lost in the delta quadrant for years on voyager, I thought trek would get back to some basic Treking. Klingon's (Bad ones, nasty ones, Enterprise's Klingons are more like TNG's, which in my opinion ought not to be the case). Bad Ass Romulans, and the discovery of thier link with the vulcans (this was touched on Briefly, very Briefly, and really ought to get more attention as well. They really need to round up the writers and directorys that made some of the DS9, TNG episodes that really stick out as Classics. Best of Both Worlds, the Bell Riots, The entire Bajorian Religious Arc at the end of DS9 (the final season was one of the best seasons of Trek ever). I also feel like Enterprise has quickly degenerated into the Captain Archer Show, which some Trip and T'Pol thrown in here and there. They need to open up the cast more let us get into the other characters heads, and perhaps even give us a few more characters. It looked like they were headed that way they had that ensign (Cartright? maybe?) who seemed to get some focus in a couple episodes (on an away mission in the episode with the slave race, and the episode where she has a crush on Flox)...ah well I hope they work something out and we get a season 4 and perhaps they can strighgten this out...
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
I do enjoy the whole Star Trek universe, but it's hard to deny that Enterprise has largely been unoriginal. This hairbrained season-long plot hasn't worked out well, and I find that the only episodes I most like heavily feature Phlox.
.02 $US.
If the series had instead of going with this "temporal cold war" idea gone with a simple "explore nearby space and meet new races" type idea, I heavily suspect that things would have been better. I mean, hell; TNG and TOS were great; DS9 was alright, but Voyager was a step in the WRONG DIRECTION.
Just my
The series has been bland since the captain stopped traveling randomly through time with his cigar smoking friend.
[rant style="uninformed"]
I've seen 2 episodes of the show this year, and it has the same property that used to make me really hate Voyager... They are obsessed with their goal, and at the end of the show they are 0% closer to achieving it -> they have wasted 1hr of my life.
Let's recap ST franchises
TOS: Expore new worlds, TNG: Expolore ", DS9: Deal with everything that happens in a hotspot, Voyager: get home, Enterprise: Kill the fucking Xindi - Kill 'em all!
I don't even know who the Xindi are, but whoever they are I'd imagine Star Fleet would have better things to do then to send it's only ship after them on a revenge mission....
[/rant]
Anyway...
I thought they were on a roll, managing to get two scenes with the female characters half undressed, and a tacticless space ship fight into almost every episode.
When I first heard the premise for this new series, I was actually quite interested. A primitive Entreprise, first real deep sapce ship from Earth, presumably out gunned by almost everyone they meet, and maybe having to do some interesting things to win through.
But no. They turn out to be able to beat crap out of almost everyone. The only way to get a plot is to have something blow up on board, or mysterious `gravimetric bullshiterons' hold them while the inferior aliens attack, so that 10 minutes later they can beat crap out of those same aliens without breaking sweat... scene of vulcan underwear giving engineer a hand job... end of episode.
_O_
.|< The named which can be named is not the true named
It seems like every sci-fi show, good or bad, popular amongst us geeks or not, gets cancelled.
Instead, we have these mind-numbing 'reality' tv shows, vapid sit-coms, and corny teenage melodramas.
I watch Enterprise. It's not that I think it's that great, it's just better than most of the other rubbish on TV. At least it's mildly entertaining, and I need something to watch while I exercise.
Does anybody REALLY want another Joe Millionaire/Survivor 14/Bachlor(ette) clone to replace it?
I might shoot plot holes though Enterprise all day, but at least my brain functions while doing it.
Enterprise always struck me as being made for 12 year old boys, it's just that shallow. I loved TNG and the original Star Trek as well as most of DS9 and a smaller portoin of Voyager. My dislike of Enterprise could also simply be cause by expossure to Farscape (which is coming back for a mini-series thank you kindy). That is quality if you ask me. Now even watching great episodes of TNG leaves me unsatisfied, Farscape is just so much better its scary. The thing about Star Trek is that its a pioneer show, so it was amazing when it was new full of new ideas and new plots. You have to move on from that though if you wish to continue the series, you can't just recycle the same old plot devices and themes. Enterprise is like that poser in high school who tries to be exactly like the most popular kid in school and fails even while mimicing their behavior to a t.
vampirical
What made TNG great was a strong cast, and really great storylines that were molded by Gene himself, as he tried to make the series more than a string of adventures, but tried to infuse a certain amount of humanity. Hence very interesting characters like Worff, Data, and of course, Picard. My favorite TNG episode of all time, and this touches on the whole humanity issue, was the one where Picard was knocked out by an alien probe, and he spends his entire life on some planet whose star was about to go supernova. In that episode, he got the chance to live a normal life with a wife and a family (something made nearly impossible as SF Captain). He got to experience living an entire lifetime, although in reality he was only knocked out for a couple minutes. In the process, it's almost like he lived two lifetimes. That was an amazing episode.. that was light on action, but on so much more interesting levels. Very engaging.
In Voyager, we got interesting characters in Seven of Nine, the Medical Hologram in search of autonomy and acceptance, and one undervalued character, and that was Kim. Their struggles to find a way home gave the series heart, which can't be said for the anemic DS9.
So where does Enterprise fit in all of these? Well, let me say that the characters in Enterprise are flat and uninteresting. There is no sense of humor for the characters; T'Pol needs to get laid badly. The rest are unimaginative and uninspired with lame back stories. Im sorry but if the future is occupied by these type of boring people, I'm staying right here in the present. The show needs the sort of bravado you saw in The New Hope, but it's looking more like The Phantom Menace. Too stiff and serious for it's own good.
Star Trek:
Western in space. Kinda campy but did have its moments. Very memorable characters. Fanbase: Big enough to get a few movies going after its cancelation. Noteworthy: The fans loved the show and movies enough to get an entire freakin' space shuttle renamed. Nae bad.
Star Trek: The Next Generation:
Pretty deep plots. Much deeper than much of what is shown on TV, which really doesn't say much. Very memorable characters. Very powerful episodes. (Remember the one where the crew find a probe and Picard spends a lifetime on a dieing planet?) Had many people who aren't fans of scifi watching. Noteworthy: Roddenbery died during this series.
Star Trek: Deep Space 9
Very deep storyline spanning many seasons. Characters not as memorable as those on TNG, but memorable none the less.
Star Trek: Voyager:
Unmemorable characters, superficial plots, enough gaps in the plot to make Spock have a stroke. The previously immortal and near unbeatable borg were made to look like a bunch of pussies in this. Time travel became more cliche than it previously was. It's crap, Jim.
Star Trek: Enterprise
New 'hip' series that shits on the pre-federation history laid out by the previous series and movies. Superficial. Unmemorable characters. Plots so shallow not even an infant could drown in them. Superficial. Tries to grab your attention with random semi-nudity. Predictable. Superficial. Theme song sucks. Superficial.
As somebody who used to be a HUGE Trek fan 10 years ago - good. The horse is laying in the middle of the field, four broken legs, broken ribs, and is oozing blood out of its ears. Just shoot it and get it over with. I hate seeing my childhood fave raped for ratings.
Berman and Braga can kiss the fattest part of my ass.
you think enterprise was the only good star trek? no offense, but have you seen the other ones? o wait: your question re: what kind of captain risks the ship and crew to save one or 2 people clearly indicates you haven't. :>
ed
What? They're going to cancel a Star Trek series after only 3 seasons?
Who would'a thunk a ST series could actually get cancelled after only 3 years.
Maybe it's a warp drive thing, after all the last Trek series that couldn't make it past 3 years had slower warp engines, too (compared to Next Gen and later).
That's what Enterprise brought to mind -- a group put together by a team of marketing folks with a one character that appeals to certain demographics. There's the hot chick, the minority, the rebel, the troubled and flawed leader. I did try watching it. Hell, the decontamination scene made me wish I was on the Enterprise, but man, those characters sure are wooden. To this day I still don't know all their names because they just sort of meld into each other.
With that said, I have no idea if the Galactica revival was considered a commerical (ratings) success. Is anyone aware if it carried its own? If so, then perhaps this would be a good model for ST. If not... oh, well.
"Prepare for the worst - hope for the best."
In order to avoid being cancelled, they need to have
.. oops .. federation butt
..
1) Women with either figure hugging/very little clothing
2) Rough battle ready warriors, able to go kick some anti-us
3) Enhance the beauty/breasts of all women present so that the pubescent young boys can watch every episode
oh dear... they seem to have done that already
Perhaps they need to stop recycling old scripts from prior versions of Star Trek.
This series seems either to want to completely re-write trek history, or re-invent the wheel
I was upset to see Farscape cancelled.
I was very upset to see Firefly cancelled. I recommend the DVD set to any sci-fi fan. Every episode is excellent, especially one of the two they include that was never aired.
I was quite disappointed when I found out the the Battlestar Galactiga remake wasn't going to immediately become a miniseries.
Enterprise, I could honestly care less about.
startrek: enterprise is worst of them all..
oh well... Since I live in the Netherlands im behind a couple of seasons, so... its not a big deal for me :)
You're old school? I beta tested the motherf***ing abacus!
I thought Nemesis was one of the better Trek movies. Yes, it was a lot like ST II, except that it had relatively good actors.
Garbage in. Garbage out.
-EB
Do you ever walk alone like a drifter in the dark?
Back to the basics of the original Star Trek 1:
...
1. Lots of Babes (and more hunks too.)
2. Irrational situations with social
commentary and hand to hand combat.
3. Some more space battles. It's sad when some
PC games running on Nvidia cards have better effects
than a professionally run show.
4. Toss in some real science topics now and then...
5. Big Name Guest Stars like Cristina A. and Pink -
(Pink would make a great alien warrior princess!)
The cast members of 'Friends' will be looking for some
part time work
6. Social commentary plot lines that takes on the current
establishment. Things like pointless energy wars,
racism, bioengineering, etc. (and yes - involving more
hotties for unknown reasons)...
7. More babes - and kissing for no logical reason...
(why did all those alien chicks fall for
Captain Kirk ?)
What is this, the late 60s? Oh yeah, we have seen this exact same scenario before -- with the original series. Yes, all those now beloved Kirk and Spock episodes were being ignored even as all the posters in this thread have been bragging about doing to Enterprise. So no, this is not the end of Star Trek even as Star Trek didn't come to an end in the late 60s. It's all cyclical.
I haven't watched Enterprise since the first season, and won't now since the local UPN stations HDTV broadcast signal is too weak for me to pick it up.
Star Trek has had a good run. If you take a look at its history:
Star Trek (Original) - Good. Filled with adventure and hot Kirk on Alien action.
Star Trek TNG - Also good. Good plots and characters with a modern twist, except without the hot(?) Picard on Alien action.
Star Trek DS9 - Crap. I can summarize it in one sentense. "Lets just sit on this station and banter about Ferrengis".
Star Trek Voyager - Actually good, but could have been better. Unlike DS9, they actually had an objective. Unfortunately, the producers took one plot that -could- have been stretched over 4 episodes and condensed it into one.
Star Trek Enterprise - Dead from day one. I've found it has less of a fan base than any other trek, has yet to be put on in the afternoon (at least in Canada), and is just plain stupid.
Perhaps Star Trek should go out now with whatever dignity it has left in its name.
Frink: Nice try floyd, but you were designed for scrubbing, and scrubbing is what you shall do.
I can only hope that the rumor is true and that the show is axed. I use to be a big star trek fan until this show began. Even though it was bad I watched it anyways hoping that someday the show would suddenly get better. It never did get better so I just stopped watching it and I don't miss it one bit. I can only hope that the show gets axed and that we don't see another trek for another four of five years. I would hate to see the star trek franchise die but they use the same boring stories over and over and they have run out of ideas. I think that what really killed star trek was right after one series ended a new one would begin giving no real break in between and not building up any hype for a new series. I thought that the idea of going back to an earlier point in time for a trek series was a good idea but I didn't really like the idea of going back to the 22nd century unless they were going to do it right. To the best of my knowledge space travel of the 22nd century, according to trek lore, was suppose to be more of an old west/cowboy feel instead of the crap that they tried to feed us. I think that if they were going to set a series in the past it should have been set between the movies based on the original series and the next generation. I think that we should have seen a series with the captain and crew of the Enterprise B. If they do kill the series they should wait a few years and come out with and remake of the original series. I think that this series should be remade and would be very successful assuming that they don't change everything that was good about it and recycle the same stories over and over.
Truism:
Odd numbered star treks suck.
No way around it, they just do.
5, incidentally, is so bad that most of us write it off as not having existed in the first place. I think one trekkie described it best when he said "Kirk and god compare egos, god loses."
1 can't even compare to that.
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
Come on - can anyone really say they are upset that this is going?
... once the studio execs have got it out of their heads that "science fiction" == "the star trek pattern".
Everyone with more than half a brain thought "Voyager" was intolerably stupid, then "Enterprise" comes along to plumb new depths of bad "science fiction." It is obviously written written by monkeys, trained in marketing and then given lobotomies.
Face it, if you are in any way upset at this news you are a sad, deluded fanboy. Get rid of the "Star Trek" rubbish and we might even see some decent science fiction on television
Die, pathetic, lame and stupid franchise currently only beloved of retards, die!
I thought it was a great movie.....I don't understand why people did not like it.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
I thought Nemesis was really good. Data's death scene made me cry! Anyway, one thning in my area that would help out UPN was if the local affiliate had any pride in their signal. Of all of the local channels, UPN has THE WORST signal. Is UPN like that where you are?
Gorkman
They say that as if it's a bad thing.
I've watched a lot of dire sci-fi (War Of The Worlds springs to mind) in my time but ST:E really scrapes the bottom of the barrel. The characters are a joke (there's not a single one that I can empathise with or admire), and the storylines are almost entirely incompatible with the rest of the Star Trek universe (Klingons that look like TNG/DS9/Voyager rather than TOS, etc).
Frankly, I'm amazed it lasted this long. Personally, I think the decision to cast Scott Bakula as Captain Archer was telling: the producers and the network knew that the concept was so weak and limited that they needed an established sci-fi lead to help bring viewers on board. (All the previous Star Trek shows featured actors who were virtual unknowns at the time of being cast, and perhaps the shhows were that much better because of it.)
If I'd been in charge of pushing the Star Trek envelope and creating a fifth show, ST:E would have been the last thing that I would have come up with. Perhaps a series set even further into the future with a focus that included the temporal time directive would have been better - it's hard to see how it could have been much worse.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
I'm rather curious to see what percentage of slashdotters actually watch this show.
/^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
cuz it sucks ass since end of 1st season...
Maybe Al should slide in there and get ziggy to lend a hand.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
It was worth it though.
...appear with Jonathan Archer. Ack! Phphphphttttt!
Star Trek hasn't been interesting for a long time now. There have been good episodes in several of the series, but they were generally good in spite of the Star Trek universe, not because of it. People are obviously interested in space at the moment, so maybe this will be an opening for something more inventive. I do give Enterprise some credit for trying to avoid the "Superman problem" by setting things at a time when the Federation was a bit less "nigh-omnipotent," but so far most episodes have an awful "I think I played this D&D module once" feeling to them.
I'd like to see something that melds the cyberpunk thing and the strange-new-worlds thing... with a better budget than Earth II, hopefully.
Check out the Apostrophe open-source CMS: http://www.apostrophenow.com/
there hasn't been a large terrorist act that devastated earth in real life.
I think that one has to remember that with Star Trek, there have been multiple distinct SERIES's, the first one having hundreds of episodes, and so on... all with essentially the same back story. How many plots can you really get out of that, when after 20, maybe 30 years, you are still trying to get new angles on some guys/girls in a spaceship for .5-1 hour? I'm not saying this to be mean, I am just not surprised that it's hard to develop a new angle after all that.
stuff |
I've seen almost every single Star Trek episode
and movie in existance (except Voyager and DS9,
which I didn't like very much).
We *do* have too much of the same old thing. The
recent episode "Chosen Realm" just proved to me
my long-standing idea that I hate Archer's
command style.
Senario:
People take over the ship and say
that they will destroy it and themselves.
Their leader is on the bridge saying he's now
in command and he could order anyone to detonate
an explosive.
Kirk:
Give a neat speech on freedom, probably in a
discussion with Bones and Spock in his quarters,
then take over the ship, using Spock's Vulcan
Neck Pinch to disable guards.
Picard:
Give a rather short speech on the morals of
terrorism (ala, that episode where Beverly falls
in "love" with the terrorist). Then end up in
front of the Master Control Board saying "Computer:
Enable Auto-Destruct Sequence, code blah..."...
"Alright, you say you'll destroy us, we'll destroy
ourselves just to show how wrong your viewpoint is.
Archer:
Allow them to take over the ship.
At first I was wondering what happened to the
marines, I expected a full scale phaser battle
for the ship. But right ask I vocalize that Q,
I see the marines being herded into a room...
I don't know about you, but playing along can
really expose a Captain's weakness infront of
his crew, which is something no Captain would
ever do ("The Enemy Within" TOS).
I'd say, give it a 4th season, if they can't
come up with anything better, then cancel it
and give Star Trek a decade to refresh itself,
like the 70's all over again.
(and btw, "Chosen Realm" was just like the
TOS episode with the half Black, half White faced
people... the name of the episode escapes me at
the moment....)
And GET RID OF THAT SILLY TITLE SEQUENCE!
We need a good "Where no man has gone before"
from Archer!
Just a thought...
I'll miss this one. The funky camerawork was refreshing.
It was 100% cheese, but it was a fun redo of "The Bionic Man". They even made this painfully obvious in the episode with Lee Majors.
Plus, it was just starting to lower its cheese value. Reminds me of "Birds of Prey" in one sense.
You'd think with the popularity of things like Deja View and "Sanford and Son" DVD sets they'd get the hint and make old-style dumb TV again...
SYS 64738 NO CARRIER
Rick Berman took on the canon monster and lost. He should have stuck to being a Trekkie fanboi who couldn't get a date on a Friday night without Rohypnol.
No mod points, no meta-moderating/Firehose/all the other free work Slashdot wants me to do.
not the idea for the show. The idea for the show could have made for legendary material. The problems
are
1) Too much winging it...they didnt seem to know where the show was going before they started it.
2) Chemistry...or the lack thereof. Even conflict can make for good chemistry.
3) Wheres the Villain? Evil futuredude doesnt cut it, and the Xindi are boring. Timetravel is like sweets you cant eat chocolate and marshmellows for dinner.
4) too many lame duck characters...people who should have been written off the show are still there.
...
Star Trek needs to rest for a decade or so. And when it comes back, we need a combonation of new blood and a fresh look at Gene Roddenberry's ideas. That's what made TNG so great. Cast wise, he went in a differnt direction, but stayed true to the original concept of Star Trek.
Oh, and can Rick Berman finally be fired now? Please? He should have absolutely NOTHING to do with Trek from here on out.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
When I heard rumors of a New Trek Series I had been hoping for something along the logical progression of the Trek Universe.
1. We have for years had teasing hints of the Post Kirk Era, in seeing Sulu on the Excellsior(I know I spelled that wrong). I had been hoping that perhaps a new Trek Series would go down that line.
2. We have also seen bits of the Post Kirk Pre-picard Universe in seeing the Enterprise-B, and C I had hoped that maybe a new series would go in this direction especially the C. The Federation in the middle of an all out war would make for a refreshing change from the general Peace and love universe we are all used to seeing.
3. I heard a rumor of a Star Fleet Academy show at one point, Not sure about this one, but it might have worked.
4. A Post Picard Setting, where the Federation is on the verge of, or has already colapsed.
5. A Post Picard Setting way way into the future, jump forward 100-200 years (Leaves lots of room for back story) set on the the Enterprise - L. Perhaps things are very different in this age, the Romulans, Klingons and Cardasians are Full Memebers of the Federation, perhaps the Enterprise is even Commanded by a Klingon, with a Vulcan/Romulan first officer (A decendant of Spock fathered during his time on Romulus).
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
I had honestly hoped that would happen after Voyager ended. I figured a few years would give some time for some fresh new ideas, and some fresh new interest.
I was somewhat disappointed when I heard about Enterprise in the first place, not that I thought it was a bad premise, but that it was a bad time to go forward with it.
I gave it a chance, though, and watched the first season and a half (or maybe two seasons, I'm not so sure). After a bit, I stopped keeping up with it. It just wasn't worth it for yet another rip-off of an idea already done in a previous Trek series.
Anway, I won't miss it in the slightest. I haven't missed it the past two years it was on, so why would I miss it after it was gone?
Insert witty Star Trek joke,
-- If any of the above made sense, I assure it was purely by accident.
It seems that the TV land herd mentality is at work again. Too many people accept the crap that is what you find on tv these days, which is put there to take up the space between what ammounts to thousands of continuous adds. (how many car chases/dumber that the dumbest last flavour of the month, tastless (non) comedy programs and lame talk shows can they produce (apparently, vast, vast amounts)). At least Enterprise is trying to produce a show that has a long term plot. Enterprise has produced some shows that have differnt plots from the rest of the star trech franchise...thats good, why should we pay attention to some mis-guided corporations that proabably couldn't market food to staving people (yes, our corporate foucus groups reports have determined that starving people need concrete not food). That sort of thinking cancelled Futurama and Farscape, star treck TNG plus lots of other shows...the entertainment magazines are just as bad, they exist primarilly to report conflict and upheavill, gossip etc.. if thing ran smoothly, they would not have anything to publish...I am not really amazed, it's very easy for people to be manipulated by the print and electronic media.
I actually like Enterprise and am disappointed that it may get cancelled. I absolutely agree that the plots have been done to death and that the aliens are sadly predictable in appearance but I more or less like this crew.
I think Bakula makes a good captain and his play with the Vulcan Sub-Commander is good. That can't carry the show however as much of the other crew hasn't been allowed to breath (except for Hoshi in the Psychic/Alien episode which isn't saying much).
But there is a lot of untested material in the Star Trek universe. There should be more Andorran plots and it would be really nice if the writers remembered the Gorn Empire or the Tholians. The universe was unstable back then (as opposed to TNG Federation/Romulan/Klingon triumvirate) and that instability could make for some good shows.
This season's "Expanse" theme is interesting and I personally like it. However, it can't go on forever, for the very fact that none of it was ever mentioned in any past series.
The show needs to get back to its beginnings. USE the tried plot but lets not forget that space is a new and exciting and unknown place. Everything that the crew seems to encounter has already been encountered before. The original series used that unknown as the backbone of plot. TNG really built up a crew centric aspect. The other two kind of let me down. Enterprise has the potential to do a lot but isn't going anywhere.
They should really let the fans be the writers. Set up a contest or something on the website to submit an episode. Star Trek is a good and proven concept but there needs to be more trekking and more weird discoveries.
When they cancell it they won't replace it with new FireFly or new Farscape or even Futurama reruns.
They will replace it with EXXXXTREME Survivor Pop Idol Challenge Get Me Out Of Here!!! Now with MORE Celebrities!!!! Some of whom you might even have heard of!!!!!!!
The kind of programming so bad that the 15-20 mins of advertising per hour are actually the highlight.
Beep beep.
It's about time, and about 1 1/2 TV shows too late. Star Trek is tired out; time to rest for a decade or two.
After 25 solid years of production, any show and/or movie would be. No shame in admitting that, and a lot of shame in grinding on producing mediocre content when you've obviously run out of gas. Or dilithium, or whatever.
Isnt it amazing that every 4+ comment is negative. I would imagine that this could be seen as a voting mechanism by the randomly chosen moderators of the opinions they think are worthwhile. No two random people are defending startrek.
Sci-Fi producers should canvas slashdot for community advice since its not the diehard supporters (ie: the few hundred that read alt.sf.star-trek (or whatever)) but the public that they seek to entertain.
-Tim
i realize that Enterprise is not doing as good as some would like, but don't compare it to Jake-2.0.
the trailers looked good, but i could not sit thru
the first episode. it was bad.
More interesting things like... "Homeboys From Outer Space"?
UPN cancels its entire lineup almost every year in its annual attempt to shore up losses and reclaim the coveted 4th out of 5 slot from "The WB". Even if they come up with something interesting (e.g. I thought the recently-cancelled-in-its-first-season "Jake 2.0" was cheesy but interesting) it will assuredly get the axe before long, so who cares?
If they stuck with promising shows UPN might actually develop an audience, but as it stands it can't because nobody knows what will be on it from year to year - and with morons like Les "Beverly Hillbillies Amish Exploiter" Moonves preferring to dump failed CBS shows on UPN over developing original series, it won't get better.
What do you think of the possibility that Star Trek: Enterprise may be cancelled?
- "Who cares? Kirk rules!"
- "Who cares? Picard rules!"
- "Berman sux. I expected it any day."
- "Ahh... I just watched it for the hot Vulcan chick anyways."
- "I just wait for the Trek movies."
- "That's horrible, I just decided that Crusher was cool because he runs Linux, now this!"
- "It's all the fault of CowboyNeal and his Nielsen-connected TiVo!"
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
IMO, Star Trek sucks now anyways. It has for a long time. It's like an old dying dog that doesn't quite want to give up the ghost.
Enterprise has to be one of the worst, from the theme song on down. blech.
anyway, I'm not trying to p!ss anyone off, just giving my opinion.
Maybe this will let Berman and Braga know that they're complete fucking failures who shouldn't have been allowed to touch Star Trek in the first place. I'd rather see the series die than continue on as it has been ever since Voyager.
Doesn't Wil Wheaton read slashdot?
:)
Wil....if you are out there under some slashdot alias and are reading my post, next time you talk to Rick Berman, slide the idea of moving to a mini-series format!
Somebody Mod me up so he reads this!
For god's sake there were only three seasons of TOS and they were mostly shit as well. Modern day US television is like Starbucks, they just keep increasing the content until the marginal return starts to fall and then they know they have wrung every dollar they can out of the idea/franchise/theme and they move on.
Don't misunderstand, I am not dissing Star Trek per se, but it is so rare for a US series to leave the audience wanting more, they make 2 - 4 times as many episodes per year as any other country and they make as many years as they can rather than stopping once they have had enough of the writing.
And there's the rub. Most US shows are team written whilst most (non-soap) shows in the UK, at least, are artist written, once the writers become bored/stale the show ends or even once their commission ends, the show is over. Again, not a criticism of the team method per se, but it certainly changes the dynamic of the content when writers can come and go regularly during a series.
"The first thing to do when you find yourself in a hole is stop digging."
I can sum them all up. We'll have a few pages of people who don't even watch the show saying "good", "it's rubbish".
Never mind the drastic improvement the show has gone through this season. Just cancel it because a few people on Slashdot say so.
The producers are going nuts these days cancelling shows like Enterprise and Fairscape. A message shoud be given that if they keep messing with trekkies (and there's a nerd in every trekkie) they'll loose audience. I love the Enterprise show, I know it's the same old stuff but hey, it keeps me going. As far as Nemesis, I didn't like it because they killed Data, the best character in the whole Trek universe. I'd have a theory how he might come back, take the peaces of Lore and put his memory inside.
I think the trick with TOS, TNG, and DS9 was that they were only drawing on events to make parallels rather than clubbing us over the head with them.
Enterprise did one thing even worse, the "technology'll get us out of this jam" routine. I mean, c'mon, they were able to defeat the bloody Borg (the doc even purged what were now strangely slow moving nano probes out of his system). Need to sneak into a place? Fortunately someone left their cloaking pod and we'll just borrow that (and oh yeah, an overload in it will cloak someone's arm...)
So what do we get now? Star Trek: Law & Order (plots ripped STRAIGHT FROM TODAY'S HEADLINES!!!)
The whole idea of Star Trek was to escape from today's problems, not bask in them with transporters.
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
A lot of elements. Only some of them good.
After TNG, in order to achieve measureable novelty, the producers of Star Trek series painted themselves into corners that became progressively narrower and more bizarre with each series.
And each move led lessened possibilities for the creation of interesting plots.
Deep Space Nine rapidly dissolved into soap-opera on a space station with war and all the other goings on an adjunct to love stories and the spiritual evolution of the Ferengi.
Voyager was an obscenity in terms of story. Essentially, a big-budget version of 'Lost in Space,' Voyager left a bad taste in your mouth as a show never failed to call attention to its artificiality since you knew they could never solve the gigantic main problem of the series without, in fact, ending it.
Enterprise breaks the grip of the plot reduction problem but only by doing a 180-degree turn with regard to everything interesting about science fiction. Enterprise 'worked' by sacrificing the future as it was understood by its loyal fan-base and that has got to be one of the stupidest and least-perceptive decisions in television history.
Part of Star Trek's attraction for intelligent watchers is the wonder of it, it's solidity as a fiction with something in it for the mind to grab--particularly in its history and technology.
In Enterprise, everything the producers have done has worked to destroy that source of charm while alienating the previous geeks that form(-ed) the show's core audience.
They did this from the first minute of the first episode and they've never stopped doing it. They took big risks writing Enterprise and not one of them was good.
Enterprise, blows out Star Trek's unbelievably valuable history and technology for the sake of weak, and increasingly dubious plots that make the show's finding new fans unlikely while its assumption of the worthlessness of the show's past alienates its core audience
If Enterprise dissappears and takes the franchise with it, it will not be a surprise.
To mail me, remove the 'mailno' from my email addy.
"Yeah. It smells, too..."
Am I the only one that thinks that Enterprise is the worst series ever? I mean it doesn't even bear the Star Trek name in the title. It is just called Enterprise. Moreover, it has horrible inconsistencies. They encountered the Ferengi, the Borg, post-evolution Klingons, etc. etc. I would not be surprised if they somehow ran into DS-9 in that show. The only episode that was really good was the pilot then it went downhill from there. The show should not have even lasted one season. I for one do not mind it being cancelled.
-illumina+us "I put on my robe and wizard hat..."
The continuity argument is usually bandied about by those who either don't watch it or don't understand it. The whole point of the series is that groups in the future are messing around with the timeline, rendering all discussion of continuity irrelevant.
It was last year (was that season 1) where they met a guy on a desert world who gave them hospitality, and they befriended. They enjoyed hanging with him and his clan. They were contacted by the world government that called the group terrorists...
The desert "terrorists" who were portrayed in a positive light wore the headgarb associated with Arabs (which really is generic desert gear, but we see it on Middle Eastern Arabs all the time), and the representative from the world government was a Jewish guy with stereotypical Jewish curls...
I couldn't watch the show after that. ST:TOS was a drama that tackled big issues b/c being in space, the metaphores were there but not in your face. This one offended me, as I couldn't help but see it as Anti-American/Anti-Israel/Anti-Semetic bullshit.
Enterprise blew from the beginning. They used what appeared to be left-over ST:TNG scripts, instead of protraying the crew as REALLY being the first crew in space. Too much idealism, no sense of Real Politick, no concept of making allies for Earth... just not realistic for the first flight out.
The show should have been "rougher" than Star Trek, not more enlightened than ST:TNG.
That was the idea and premise, but the delivery was ST:TNG with new aliens... It was Voyager. Voyager, DS9, Enterprise, all started with the premise of "something new" in Star Trek, with odd crew memebers (terrorists, terrorists, pre-Kirk days), and quickly became another ST:TNG ripoff.
ST:TNG had the background for the super-enlightened team... Giant ship with families on board, shields and weapons that can waste ANYTHING in space (until the Borg), older, established Captain. Fleet's flagship with unlimited resources. That makes it reasonable to do a happy-shiny enlightened show. The other 3 shows were "frontier" Star Treks (like the original), but didn't have the campy shoot from the hip feel that Star Trek had.
Alex
I started watching TNG re-runs shortly after Voyager started. That grew into an addiction. I became a hard-core Trekker pretty quick, and I followed DS9 and Voyager pretty closely. For the first half of DS9, I was totally unimpressed. It was a huge soap opera. I was much more interested in Voyager. Then the war with the Dominion started, and DS9 got really good... but Voyager was getting boring. The only reason I stayed with it was Seven of Nine... and I KNOW no nerd will disagree with me on that one.
I never even really got into Enterprise. From the start, it didn't seem like it had the magic I was used to in the other series.
I want to see them take a few years off. Then make a miniseries that leads to a really well-planned TV Series. Use the old, familiar characters (e.g. Klingons & Romulans; we don't need anything more than occasional cameos from the old crews). Stay away from a perfectly continuous storyline, too... TNG's episodes could stand alone, or they could be grouped together; and I think that's what made them so good.
It must be Thursday... I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
It wasn't Star Trek anyway; they just used the names of various races from Star Trek to tell a different story. Maybe it's from the "mirror" universe....
(But I'm still bummed that _Enterprise_ the TV show wasn't anything to do with the novel, so recipe cum grano salis.)
Just repeat to yourself, "It's just a show, I should really just relax."
If it means I don't have to hear that godawful intro music again, this is a good thing. Makes me cringe every time.
/. hasn't covered this, actually.
On a more serious note, the whole Star Trek genre has been stale for a long time. I watched a fair bit of Enterprise, almost out of habit, but I wasn't really "wowed" by any of it. Star Trek seems to run off a formula, to such an extent that you can almost map Enterprise episodes onto past stories from the other series. (And even within those, there was never huge variety.)
On the other hand, Farscape really drew me in. I was looking forward to the next episode to find out what happened, rather than watching just because "it was on".
I'm also rediscovering Babylon 5. I didn't really appreciate it at the time as I missed half (or more) of the episodes, but now I'm rewatching it all in sequence, I've come to the conclusion it's the best sci-fi series of all time. In Star Trek, nothing really surprising happens - you know that in each episode the crew will face some insurmountable challenge, overcome it by suddenly discovering they can supe-up some component of the ship, and at the end of the episode things will be just the same as they were at the start. B5 on the other hand (and to a lesser extent, Farscape) has real suspense and drama. Sure, you know they'll win out at the end, but you have no idea what is gonna happen on the way.
And I'm glad to hear, there are rumours abound of another B5 project in the works. Surprised that
Mod me -1 troll if you want, but this is really what I think.
A decade of Berman at the helm has proved that mindless action, tight outfits, gibberish Trek pseudoscience, and petty, artificial conflicts does not a compelling sci-fi series make.
It's time to replace him with some one who can put mystery, suspense, and yes, realistic characters back into Trek.
I've got an idea. Take a capable producer and a couple of good writers, not necessarily from sci-fi backgrounds. Over the course of a month, Have them spend a week at JPL, a week aboard a nuclear submarine , a week hanging out with David Blaine, and a week with Donald Trump. Afterwards, lock them in a cabin for a week and tell them to transport the characters they've met to the Trek universe. I'll eat my shoe if they can't come up with a blockbuster.
Lets face it, Star trek just isn't as good as it used to be. Maybe they should take a break for a while. Perhaps the gap between the original and Next Gen made it that much better. Give science a time to catch up, so the plotlines are a little less ridiculous.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
THANK SPOCK
The Star Trek franchise has sucked for a long time. Just because it involves characters that we *want* to be cool doesn't mean anything. What's wrong with your mediocre paperbacks anyhow?
Mod:
-10 million Anti-Trek
+1 Truthful
Oh no, the worst sci-fi writing since Lost in Space might be taken off the air after three unbearably long seasons.
In other news, Firefly, widely acclaimed as the best show on TV by the two people who could track down it's illusive time slot was chumped after a scant 13 episodes.
I won't cry for you, Star Trek -- you weren't worthy of the time you got.
--
I'm not surprised at all. It kind of humors me that whenever a star trek series gets in trouble they resort to time travel. Don't get me wrong, I love Star Trek, and Enterprise is watchable, but I'm watching it because it's Star Trek, not because it's good tv.
I thought it was a crappy remake of Wrath of Kahn!
Heck, they can do this with Joss Whedon. ...shame on me for replying to my own post. :x
What this further illuminates (IMHO) is a fundamental change in our society.. basically the loss of a sense of altruism, which I considered the bedrock of Roddenberry's idea, and its substitution with fantasies of people over-coming the trends now prevalent in the US ie: money, loss of middle class, and fear of poverty.
I call computer-illiteracy job security
The way people give their opinions as fact around here gives a whole new meaning to the term 'Science Fiction'
Slashdot Eds Link Anonymous Posts With Logged Posts
They Are Vermin Feeding On Each Other's Feces.
I Hate \.
Your in charge of a very populare TV franchies. Your job is to kill it.
I could go over a whole list of stuff they did wrong but the first mistake was simply ignoring the fans.
Way back (1993?) Paramount let slip rummors of plans for a star trek exploring the foundations of star fleat. The fan base booed the idea and continued to boo the idea for many years.
You'd think after a few years of booing Paramount would get the idea.
I don't actually exist.
And by the time Star Trek is off the air, /. might finally get a Star Trek topic image instead of using the TV logo... how ironic.
/. science fiction icon is a character from an old ST episode.
That is particularly ironic considering the
Anyone care for some Tranja?
-----
Pretty Bad Privacy (PBP) Public Key
6
That would be nice... Andromeda has been losing it's edge for a while... Last season was bad, this season is awful. The old creative team with Science Fiction fans, and you saw the way they handled the lack of budget. Things were designed to work around the budget (space battles being blips on the screen are straight out of classic Science Fiction literature).
After sacking the creative team, this one doesn't know how to do anything but Star Trek style Sci Fi, which is fine, but without the budget, Star Trek doesn't work. Space battles need to look cool, explosions be impressive, etc.
I really liked the idea behind Enterprise, because I was expected more what Andromeda was (a captain BUILDING alliances)... Hunt understood Real Politick. His idealism slowly waned through the show which was GREAT (especially because Sorbo is such an awful actor -- he pulled it off)... Imagine if Picard was thrust into EITHER Kirk or Hunt's time. He would have adapted to not having the idealistic Federation behind him and cut whatever deals were necessary to build alliances. You saw his abilities in occaisional episodes on the fringe.
Taking the Andromeda theme, sticking Star Trek in the title, and using Star Trek aliens could be interesting...
Klingons occupying earth/most of the Federation. Vulcans kinda disappearing. Ferengi controlling trade (i.e. the Collectors) and perhaps Riker in the Enterprise-E trying to rebuild the Federation. Could work... will never happen.
The ST:TNG formula is understood by suits. If they want a new ST:TNG, shoot another ST:TNG. Pick the "modern" timeline, put the crew in a big-ass Galaxy or better class Star Ship. And have another ST:TNG. Instead they try to create these creative "spins" on Star Trek, and immediately make the episodes ST:TNG episodes, without the background that makes ST:TNG make sense.
Alex
What is it exactly that Trekkies really want?
a.-Action packed plots?
b.-Stoneface babes with big boobs?
c.-Pompous capitans with an attitued?
e.-Plausible scenarios for astrophysics and
quantum mechanics paradigms?
Clearly the more compelling episodes of
TNG delved and the subtle relation between
time and space.
That's the formula!
The aproach given by the writers of
DS9 and Enterprise is very idiotic.
Enuf said!
- these are not the droids you are looking for -
Having been a big fan of both TOS and TNG, I am actually rather happy to see B&B's version go down in flames. I feel bad for the actors, who are probably just getting into their parts and thinking of ways to really improve their characters (despite the drivel they're handed each week). I will miss seeing the overall story arc move closer to resolution... oh wait, they don't HAVE a story arc beyond the current season yet...
... er.. Brennan and Braga. The quality of the programmes diminished in lockstep. Enterprise was a last-ditch effort to save the franchise without taking it away from B&B, who clearly have no idea how to run something like this. It reminds me of the death-spiral of Doctor Who, resulting mostly from JNT's mismanagement and equally poor writing.
The Next Generation was the last Star Trek show that Gene Roddenberry had a real part in producing, and it shows. As his involvement diminished, he turned more and more control over to Beavis and
IMHO, the only way to revive this undead horse is to fire those two and get someone in there who actually cares about the show. One of them (I forget which) is quoted as being proud to have never seen an episode of the original Star Trek... and he's in charge of producing the new ones!
If you want to see what constant fan pressure, and people who really care about the show can do, just look back to what happened when The Next Generation was spawned. Nobody expected it to have a chance, following in the footsteps of TOS, and it was a bit shaky but those in charge at the time paid attention. Also, check out the Doctor Who section of the BBCi website -- that show's revival is still over a year away and they're already releasing flash-animated short stories featuring some of the new characters.
B&B would never do that. It doesn't fit their teenage-boy marketing segment analysis. It assumes the viewer has some intelligence and might overlook cheap graphics in favour of a story-line.
So, if Enterprise must be sacrificed so that the franchise can be freed from the infidels.... so be it!
If you know Wil's history with Berman, you'd know he'd be the last (or maybe the second-to-last) person in the ST machine Wil would want to talk to.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
More interesting things like... "Homeboys From Outer Space"?
You are going to attract all of the GNAA trolls, for sure.
I stopped watch Enterprise after about 4 episodes. Could hack it any longer - and that includes watching them on my Tivo at double speed. It seams that once Berman and Braga took over all the episodes could be written into 5 easy templates:
1. Boy-scout moral challenge
2. Random female characters breasts
3. Time travel/spacial anomaly/alien of the week
4. Ship/character gets trashed but all is well at the end of the show
5. All of the above
Take it off air for 10 years. Study JMS, Rockne OBannon and William Gibson. Come back when they have some interesting scripts.
I can't think of anything witty right now
I love these posts. =D
I never could take Andromeda seriously enough to watch more than 5 minutes of it. I just couldn't help but think "Hercules in space" every time I saw Kevin Sorbo on the screen. It would make me laugh, and I would then change the channel. Was it really any good? It looked real cheezy.
Hmm....
Good point. OH well.
It all started going down when they changed the opening tune... I can just imagine the crew line dancing when I hear it.
My Karma is so low that even my own postings are beyond my current threshold
I enjoyed the first few episodes, well, yes, the whole first season, of ST:E, but when I noticed the reappearance of plot devices that were overused in the original series, and that there was basically no story arc beyond an individual episode (cf. Babylon 5, which had season-long plots that were worth keeping up with), I ditched it. Yes, Virginia, you CAN lose money underestimating the attention span of your audience.
"My strength is as the strength of ten men, for I am wired to the eyeballs on espresso."
I've been a big fan of all the previous Trek series, but Enterprise was only mildly interesting as "another ST series".
I watched every episode during the first season and even into the second, just to give the actors a chance to get into their roles. Unfortunately, few did. When the doctor and the engineer are the only decent characters, there isn't a lot of hope for a show.
I own many of the STNG series and still enjoy them from time to time. UPN refuses cable, so I don't get to see much of DS9, my close second favorite. Possibly the cable issues are hurting UPN these days. When your target audience is geeks, and they need to put up with bad reception and rabbit ears to view your show, good luck.
Somewhere in the last few years I stumbled upon Farscape. Now THIS is an interesting series. You hardly ever know exactly what will happen, The stories are detailed and have a decided lack of timeline holes. The characters are much more real than the squeeky clean, mostly mindless Trek crews.
After watching Farscape, I don't enjoy any of the Trek series nearly as much as I did before. The characters are shallow and predictable. DS9 is really the only ST that would let the characters have moral problems or self doubt from time to time.
Enterprise just isn't deep enough to hold the attention of the viewers. Capped off by bad writing and bad acting, it doesn't even make me hope for a new ST series.
If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. - James Madison
Just because a series flopped, it does not mean that the concept must die. Viewers are not tired of Star Trek. They are tired of Enterprise, which was a bad Star Trek series, just like the ones between TNG and now.
Why Enterprise was bad ? because of non-inspiring roles. Viewers care about people, not about philosophical experiments in outter space. In other words, TNG and the TOS was successful more because of the captains and the crew and less because of the story.
Let's take Lord of the Rings and remove the tension, the battles, Gandalf, Aragorn, Frodo and Legolas, and put Mr Smith travelling across the Middle Earth without participating and taking sides, only narrating what is happenning. Suddently, LOTR is transformed to a bad concept, just like the Enterprise.
In a few words, people want to view other persons' dramatic moments. If you take that away, then viewers can not identify themselves in the presented situations, and the movie/series will fail.
In order to resurrect Star Trek, the Star Trek writers must bring back the drama. Perhaps an intergalactic war between Federation and Klingons/Romulans, coupled with the great destruction of Earth, a love story, and a few dramatic characters will resurrect it.
That show was as exciting as watching the mold ring grow around my bathtub. And the theme song was THE WORST.
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
This will make the return of Dr. Who even more interesting. Doctor Who began to die on TV when ST: TNG came out -- with its special effects and scope, along with some solid early-on writing, TNG put the good Doctor behind the times.
Now we see a role reversal -- Star Trek is behind the times, fading away, and the good Doctor is returning to TV backed by a production team determined to bring the show up to spec. Let's hope the lessons of Star Trek will not be forgotten when DW returns to TV in 2005.
I don't know. Talking to Berman immediately after having his first Star Trek series cancelled mid run might be quite pleasurable for Wil...Lots of fake sympathy and inner laughter.
I've always loved Star Trek. Genne Roddenberry was the best. Since he passed away the series went to hell in a hand basket I think. He had a vision for it, the rest just have dollar signs in their eyes and really kill the series with a lack of creative thinking.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
UPN had better consult with the makers of TiVO and Replay TV. This of the ripple effect when thousands of techies realize that Star Trek is over and start cancelling their monthly subscriptions. Ebay will be flooded with uber-modded PVR's.
If Enterprise is cancelled I will seriously consider selling my ReplayTV, since the Daily Show with Jon Stewart will easily fit on a videocassette. There really isn't much high quality content to watch on TV anymore. Too bad, another era has ended. However, I still look forward to getting crap content in HD format.
I've quickly scanned through all these posts and not seen a single joke about GWB cancelling it to fund a mission to mars.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Quit letting the Marketing Department write the episodes.
...to bad rubbish.
If you're like me you may wonder why the occasional smart person you find who isn't in science/tech (I know, I'm always shocked too) snickers behind his hand when I mention science fiction as one of my interests.
Why? 2001 was critically acclaimed!
Well, uhhh... Star Trek is why.
Adam Thorne
Besides, from listening to what he has to say these days, he could probably do a better job himself.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
At least I had been into it until this weeks episode. It felt a little deflated.
For me what peaked my interest was when they started to set out on the whole story arc with the Xindi, the expanse, and the devistation on earth with a 9/11 twist. Everyone had a little different approach to dealing with the massive loss of life.
I will continue to watch and I for one hope that they do not pull the plug. However, in the same breath, I think that they do need to back off a little on the whole Star Trek Universe. Nemisis did suck, not as bad as ST:5 though.
"If you have done 6 impossible things this morning, why not round it off with breakfast at Milliways" -- hhgg
UPN passed on Firefly becuase of the enterprise garbage. maybe now they wish they hadn't.
It doesn't really help that UPN shows just about every sporting event they can find during the Star Trek time slot, bumping new episodes to the Saturday rerun time slot. (Although, they did this to Voyager also).
Maybe they are taking advice from him
After the ending of the 2nd season I had fairly high hopes for season 3. Dashed heartlessly against the rocks.
Archer is even MORE of a pussy than ever before-made all the more obvious by his few attempts to be manly-macho.
T'Pol is sexy as fuck (which is what I'd like to do to Jolene Blalock, btw) but increasingly irrelevant.
And the writers have started rehashing plots and plot devices.
Kill it, and don't make another one. I never thought I'd say it, but let Star Trek die. Maybe in another 20 years we'll be ready again and there will be a group of people who care enough about the franchise to create a show which doesn't suck. A show without fifty leading characters. A show with a decent captain. A show which doesn't abuse its leading female characters' bodies to draw in viewers. Maybe they'll all get together and create a GOOD show.
And maybe Linux will overtake Windows on the desktop next year.
On the one hand, I think Enterprise is actually better than Voyager. On the other hand, it screws up so much of the Trek universe and sensibilities that it's not even funny. Between this and the new Star Wars movies, I'm beginning to think that official sci-fi prequels are just generally a Bad Idea(TM).
...I wish this article had been titled "Brannon Braga and Rick Berman in Danger of Being Fired." These two have done more than anyone to ruin the Star Trek franchise and transform it into mediocre garbage. Brannon Braga suffered some sort of writing downward spiral... his peak was "All Good Things..." then went on to write "First Contact," then went on to write most "important" episodes of Voyager to being the Executive Producer of Enterprise.
How sad.
--Stephen
Did you ever notice that *nix doesn't even cover Linux?
Grin, I'm not questioning that ST:TOS didn't tackle social issues... I just am sympathetic to some of the blatant ones (like the half-black/half-white one).
I like a quasi in-your-face anti-racism episode. But even in that case, it was slightly hidden behind metaphor.
The episode that I am talking about was outright saying "terrorists are nice guys" and implying (no more veiled than the half-white/half-black episode) that Jewish people persecute the nice, friendly Arab terrorists.
I am NOT sympathetic to that.
Alex
Anyway, Blake's 7 was always miles better ;p
Everything I needed to know about life, I learnt from Blake's Seven
I used to be a serious trek fan, but after TNG ended, I feel the quality of the shows (DS9, Voyager, Enterprise) has deteriorated. I feel Rick Berman has ruined Star Trek.
I was actually pretty excited by the premise of Enterprise, and enjoyed the first season. The second season was weak, and the "improvements" in the third season completely ruined the show for me. I watched 2 episodes and dropped it. I did watch the "Archer Loses His Memory" episode, and frankly I would have rather watched a series that started from that point than the restored timeline.
Star Trek: Rest in Peace
You can find Wil Wheaton here
This series I felt was underrated as well as underappreciated. Maybe it was too political and being that most of it only revolved around the star base probably had something to do with it. But with the plot lines of the Dominion and the Cardassians I felt this was a great series!
They avoided the well worn plot devices and corner cutting ( creatively, not just special effects ) that made TNG and Voyager insipid.
That didn't last
When I moved last June I did not get a TV and I did not miss watching Enterprise
Steve
Trektoday.com reported that they shortened this season, and will have a similar 24-episode season next year to reach the magic 100 episode count for syndication.
If they believe they can sell it to syndication, they'll keep going, by all means. If they don't think they'll sell it, it probably won't last out the season.
How can they keep it alive? Half-dressed Vulcans don't seem to be enough.
Design for Use, not Construction!
Frankly, I think after 25+ years, the horse is dead. On of the real problems with Trek is that as special effects and the audience's general knowledge of science increases, the viewer is less involved with the show.
* TOS: Fun, good plots, viewer imagination required due to limited budget, effects, cast etc... But was really fun and thought provoking.
* TNG: Fun, good plots, some imagination required. Carried on TOS' knack for making viewers think.
* DS9: Fun, great plots, arc restores viewer involvement, introduction of new races and so on is interesting.
* Voyger: Not fun, some good episodes, combines character driven stories with the use of T&A to draw in male viewers.
* Enterprise: Starts fun - but then looses it by looking much more high tech than the other shows set in the future (TOS, TNG) and relying on chintz like shower scenes, female vulcans in heat and the like. Attempts to combine success of DSN9 arc with Voyger T&A strategy. Unwatchable.
At the end of the day, I think Trek's had it's run. I'll still enjoy all the reruns... Let's see something new... No McScifi for a while... Franchises get boring.
-- $G
5 sucked. 2 is the best though.
I've stopped watching Enterprise ever since they had their not so subtle Gay/Aids "We're all victims here" epsisode.
The social agenda episodes of other Star Trek series were thought provoking and well done. The government isn't doing enough message of Enterprise's was baseless and told me that the producers were more interested in the series as a soap box rather than Sci-fi. Let it die.
+1 funny troll.
It just doesn't get any easier than this.
You have a well established fan base.
You have a well established mythology.
You have YEARS of professional and fan writing.
You have tons of technical material (ships, planets, etc).
You even had the Klingon language.
All of the hard work was already done for them. All of it. And they still blew it. This should have been the EASIEST series to work on.
Jeff Smith just finished off Bone, and Dave Sim is about to put to pasture this coming March with issue 300 of Cerebus.
What gives?
I'll tell you. Everybody is winding up their big projects. Those left running now might not make it, or they'll be carrying a very different set of torches indeed! After the 2004 November US 'Election', everything changes forever, and not in a warm-fuzzy way.
Enjoy your final year of free-range living, kids.
Year of the Monkey begins on Jan 21st here in the West! Hurrah and hold on tight! (Or duck and cover, depending on who you are. Should be interesting either way.)
Frickin' selfish, exciting Monkeys. . . They're SO not Starfleet reg.
-FL
Enterprise has been well in line with Sturgeon's law: 90% of the episodes have been crap. Instead of buying decent scripts, they (hmmm) "borrowed" and rehashed old, hoary plots, substituted random nudity in favor of developing characters you could care about, and have saved so many impossible situations with the deus ex machina time-travel garbage that, well...
I just want to see the puppy save the ship. Once. I'll Tivo episodes and fast-forward 'til I see that.
One thing *could* save the show: Solicit scripts from old heavies. I know it's painful, but buy some writing from the likes of Harlan Ellison, David Gerrold and other people with reasonable horsepower. Doesn't even have to be their best work; I'm sure they've got something stashed away that could be adapted quickly. Heavily publicize the eps. Watch the ratings spike.
Until some good writing happens, Enterprise will be good riddance as far as I'm concerned. Bring back Firefly. Jesus, what a business.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is insufficiently documented.
Guy swinging on his pajamas in NY. Never brakes a bone when falls on solid concrete.
Fscking believeable.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
This incarnation of Star Trek has been... well.. not very good. Look at the length of the other Star Trek series. DS9, TNG, even Voyager. Not to foget about the original series, but lets use the most recent ones as an example.
They must have been something right, the most I have heard people talk about Enterprise if pretty much about how much of a "family show" it is. No offense to any who like Star Trek Enterprise but since when was Star Trek really a show the whole family watched? Its all about raw Nerd passion for SciFi. I'm sorry even with the setting, Enterprise is to cheesy. It all but brings shame upon the name Enterprise
- It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them. - Alfred Adler -
I started watching more then 10 years ago. I was so fond of Star Trek, I even bought myself a uniform.
Now, I barely dare to mention I am a trekkie.
I am switching to SG1. The best part about that is, that I haven't seen the first seasons. So as with TNG, I can watch the reruns hoping to catch some unseen episode.
Eggs, goose, kill, golden.
Or something like that.
Arrange them as you see fit.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I think most people stop watching after they realize that Kirk has already been there and blew it up or fucked her.
Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification
The franchise has been run dry in the past decade. Horribly dry. I enjoyed Nemesis, but it wasn't on par with First Contact and it wasn't on par with Khan or Undiscovered Country... which means we have a franchise with serious potential that is seriously devoid of enticing material.
So what are Paramount's choices?
1. Beat the dead horse the franchise has become. Enterprise shows serious lack of creativity or even thought about the franchise. For series that has always prided itself on moving forward, whay are we exploring a past that has nothing to do with what we've learned about the ST past?
2. Let the franchise go dormant for five years or so. Re-introduce it with a movie that is Picard's last hurrah (no need for a death, but his last major adventure), Spock could be assassinated (he is still tooling around on Romulus, after all), and possibly reintroducing pieces from TNG that we haven't seen for a while (Q, Wesley, etc.). By tying TOS (via Spock), TNG, DS9, Voyager and their respective (surviving) crews into that film they could close out the current TNG-era stories. If that movie does well, then a new series could be built in the 20 or 25 year period after the movie ends.
3. Kill the franchise.
I would love to see the last episode be of the time ship Relativity (appeared in Voyager) involved in cleaning up the past so that this version of events never existed from TNG's and Kirk's perspective and the continuous Star Trek timeline can be happy once again... Who knows, maybe this Enterprise came out of interference by the borg or something -- I'm sure they can invent a half decent plot. Heck the Relativity could be a great future Star Trek series, talk about a way to involve tons of old cast members from TNG, DS9, and Voyager, but also explore a lot of the dangling threads from various episodes.
For me, Enterprise jumped the shark in the recent UK showing of the episode in which three of the main characters caught a virus, and within minutes started turning into very alien "primitives", complete with loss of memory, different language and failures to comprehend the situation they found themselves in (hmmmm, sounds like too much alcohol.)
How many times have we seen this plot rehashed? It's not as if we didn't expect that the Doctor would find a miracel cure that would reset all the effects at the end of the episode, complete with appropriate homily about preserving the past.
Sigh. For me, Enterprise *might* have been great, if they really gave the Captain an edge. For example, in a recent episode he was close to killing a prisoner in an airlock to interrogate him. "At last", I thought -- "some moxie!"
Unfortunately, the only thing worth watching in that recent ep. was Jolene's jumpsuit. I couldn't bear to watch the crap, so switched to Golf instead -- that Ernie Els can really use the flat stick!
Of course, I note Jake 2.0 also starts soon in the UK, and is already cancelled.
The only shows with some promise these days seem to be "Smallville" and "Stargate." I particularly liked the recent "Stargate" ep. where Jack realized that he was supporting a regime of Racial-Purity slimeballs, and ended by closing the iris to allow one of them to pancake coming through the wormhole -- priceless!
Paul Gillingwater
MBA, CISSP, CISM
I watched this show a grand total of twice. I couldn't finish watching it on either occasion.
The original Star Trek worked because it was new, interesting, and Shatner's bad acting was hysterical. While many of the episodes were just awful, there were a few that I found not only well-written, but thoughtful and interesting. And at the same time, the original Series didn't necessarily beat you over the head with the moral (at least not all of the time).
TNG worked because they hired one good actor (and some solid character actors) and had cool sets/special effects. Also, some of the episodes were actually quite good. Although they *did* tend to beat you over the head with the moral of the story, there were enough truly interesting plots to keep you coming back.
DS9 failed miserably at first, because the first season or so was just bad. Dry writing, bad pacing, and the like. When the writing (and the continuous plotline) picked up, the series became probably the best that Trek offered. I think the key with DS9 was the acting -- the actors were genuinely entertaining. Avery Brooks is a fine actor, and the guys who played Odo, Quark and Garak were all highly amusing. Oh, and Gul Dukat and Weyoun were at least somewhat entertaining bad guys.
And DS9 didn't try to offer all of these stupid new-age ultra-PC morals all the time. During the war, we see Sisko as a "shoot first, question the body" kind of guy, rather than some touchy-feely asshat like they tried with later series. Worf abandons his mission (and dooms an informant to death) to save his wife. Moral of the story? There is none, just a harsh reprimand from Sisko and the "off the record" comment that his commander would have done the same.
Voyager just flat out sucked. I couldn't watch it. Unlike the other series, the captain of Voyager offered nothing. At least with Shatner, we could count on the hysterically campy acting, and with Stewart/Brooks, actual GOOD acting. But with Voyager we had the obnoxious captain with the shrill voice, the horrible (and horribly boring) supporting cast, and generally awful writing/direction.
And Enterprise. Awful. Lost fans of the other Star Trek series by fucking up the plotlines, and at the same time just plain sucks. It continues Voyager's worthless formula of hiring bad actors (Scott Bakula!?!?) and combining them with bad writing.
And the other key ingredient fucking up Voyager/Enterprise is the ultra-PC bullshit. I watched two episodes of Enterprise before Archer's "we come in peace, you can vaporize half of our hull, but can't we just have a hug?" bullshit made me sick.
Sure, there were elements of that in the other shows, but at least they USUALLY (yes, there were real bad episodes of all series) kept things interesting and not overly pedantic.
The bottom line is that Enterprise sucks. It deserves to be cancelled. Brannon Braga (or whatever the fuck this kid's name is) ought to be on the street shining shoes. Can't wait for DS9 to start re-running on Cable. That show was actually good.
These are all great ideas. In fact, the current Enterprise show's *concept* isn't a bad idea either. It's not a lack of setting that's killing this franchise. It's a total lack of show running talent that's killing this franchise.
Get rid of the hacks and bring in people who know about character and plot development and who know how to write interesting stories and who know how to run an interesting show and you'd get lots and lots of people watching Star Trek again.
I'm just curious how long the Xindi plotline was supposed to last, or how they were going to top saving Earth from total anhilation?
We want shatner and the rest of the original crew back. We don't want the sissy bald man flying around in the "jelly bean" style enterprise with his pinochio sidekick (data) and the klingon with the anus protrusion on his head (I mentioned the anus head thing before, someone pointed to a DS9 episode but STILL nobody can explain why the klingons went through such a drastic change between TOS and TNG)
/. poll, who would win in a fight?
Just give us a good plot, that deals with modern day social issues. Terrorism, genocide, YRO stuff like privacy invasion.
My previous post on this subject stated that I want to see kirk running around banging alien chicks at every possible turn. After seeing a recent picture of him though, maybe that wouldn't be such a believable plot for a man of his age.
So don't make him and his crew the swashbuckling people they once were. Instead, put them IN CHARGE of starfleet. Here's my idea for a new show.
It takes place 30 years after TOS (would be about right for age progression) Kirk and his old crew are now at starbase 001 orbiting earth. They all have cozy desk jobs and each are in charge of different aspects of starfleet operations. Kirk of course would be the almighty leader and diplomat. Scotty would be in charge of the starfleet equivelent of the US Army of Engineers, Ohura with her communication skills would be the equivelent of the NSA, Spock would be an investigator of ancient artifacts and legends, and Dr Mcoy would be the Starfleet General Surgeon.
Now i'm sure you're wondering how can you get an exciting plot with a bunch of old geezers floating around a space station on earth. Simple.
The shows focus would shift weekly. One week Kirk could be smoothing out warring planets. Next week you could have Ohura send out teams of spies for information. Maybe Scotty could send out the starfleet core of engineers to save some planet from imploding, or spock would send out a team to investigate some relic with weird powers. Their teams would stay in touch with thier bosses through subspace video messages (that way we still get too see our old favortite TOS characters involved) but most of the episodes would revolve around the different situations each TOS character has to deal with, and how they have to deal with them.
The neat thing about doing it this way too is you could also show more variety of starfleet ships, without having to wind it into some unbelievable story line. Sure we saw the Excaliber in ST4 the movie, but did we ever actually see it go on a real mission? What about the Science ship kirks son served on in the wrath of khan? What sort of things do the other science ships in startfleet discover?
Star Trek after TOS and the movies got lame, because there was so much variety in TOS between episodes, you could hardly find the same plot twice. TNG, DS9, Voy, Ent, all off them stretched episodes into week long "SPACE OPERA'S" that had plots with so many holes in them, you could strain pasta with it.
Just give us back our old captain. First thing that came to mind when I saw Scott Bakula for the first time was "Quantum Leap" He's no Captain kirk, thats for sure.
Hey, there's an idea for a
Kirk
Janeway
Picard
Cisco
Cowboyneal?
I am a huge fan of the Star Trek universe. I watched TNG, DS9, and Voyager as much as I possibly could without access to UPN. That is where Paramount lost it. I had to hope that Paramount would allow one of the other mainstream networks to carry Voyager, usually a week behind what was happening on UPN. Berman and crew do not have the same magic as Roddenberry. However, another part of the problem is Paramount's insistence that the show stay with UPN. The first and second season of Enterprise was carried on one of the NBC stations carried by my cable provider. However, they showed it at 11:30 PM on Sunday nights. When one has to get up for work the next day, that late time means that one must remember to set the VCR. Since the second season, I have not heard anything more about Enterprise and do not know if it is even airing. It's as if UPN wants cable providers to be forced to carry their network if they want their customers to get Star Trek. However, UPN just doesn't have the content to compete and get a slot in the channel lineup. They've shot themselves in the foot.
I don't think people are giving Enterprise a chance. Look at DS9, one of the best trek series out of all of them. While the first 3 seasons were good the series really began to pick up in the 4th with the dominion war. It took the first 3 seasons for us to get to know the characters and for them to lead up to the 4th/5th seasons where the dominion war took off. Even Voyager had it's good points, and great episodes, and introduced Technology into the trek universe like the EMH and the portable holo-emitter. The EMH was then used in First Contact, one of the best TNG movies. I learned to enjoy Voyager even though at first I compared it to Gilligan's Island in space. Give it a chance to blossom like DS9 did at this stage in it's life instead of killing it before it's time.
---- "Excuse me. Where's the children's gun section?"
Enterprise's opener sounds more like an asthmatic Rod Stewart to me.
Nathan
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I enjoyed Voyager far more than the original Enterprise series, or TNG for that matter. So did my (now) ex-girlfriend. We used to watch it together every Monday night and never missed an episode. The new Enterprise has just started its second season in the UK and already I'm loving it. Unfortunately my current girlfriend has never been a Trek fan, but that doesn't get in the way of my enjoyment.
I hope it keeps on going for a long time yet.
Is it possible that a series has played out? Perhaps after 10 movies, and 5 tv series, people should consider finding something else to watch.
I understand it has a cult following, but maybe the cult should disband. It's become a borderline obsession for many. Why do you think people make fun of trekkies?
The acting in most of the star trek series has been mediocre for many years. In fact its been medicocre since the dynasty was started. Patrick Stewart may be the only exception, and his performance in Star Trek is far from his best.
I'm not crying over this one, and neither should anyone else. If you really like star trek so much, watch some the old episodes.
I agree with the summaries of the evolution of Trek from TOS->TNG->DS9->V->E. Since the Great Bird of the Galaxy died, Trek has become cheesey and formulaic. TOS might have been campy in retrospect, but we must remember the time it was created in. Those are the characters we know and love. TOS had what it took; it was fans of TOS that got the space shuttle named, that got Trek revived on the big screen, and then again on the small screen. For 20 years, TOS was all there was, and the dream stayed alive. Trek would be better off if fans got what they really want, not what the producers think they want.
And what do we want? Our original characters, with original stories, handled with modern ideas of TV production. We want Excelsior. We want Sulu, Uhura, and Rand together with an ensemble cast, going back to the Trek roots we remember from TOS and TNG. Very human characters, with faults and idiosyncrasies, forging ahead into the unknown, representing the human ideal in less than ideal situations, and learning about themselves along the way. All the elements of Roddenberry's Trek, without the 60's-style studio pressure for a single strong lead. That's what we want. Not gratuitous nudity and action. Not continuity and plot errors big enough to fly a starship through. Not gee-whiz special effects.
Constitutionally Correct
It seems like it will all be resolved in the end by the Temporal Cold War which is referred all the time. Basically, bad guys from the future play with the timelines to change outcomes. So continuity doesn't really matter, it's just that people don't get the TCW bit :p
My guess is that at the end, nothing will have happened (or not in the same timeline TOS/TNG/etc were in).
follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/moeffju
The doom of Star Trek is the same as for Star Wars: the core fans complain are too picky. They want the "cool" (read: cheesy) ST:TNG and Star Wars movies of their childhood. Unfortunately, noone wants to make whiz-bang pulpy sci-fi anymore.. because sci-fi fans have grown up and now actually want *gasp* character development, not just space boobs and lightsabers. That's why Babylon 5 was successful, at least among fans... the alien races weren't simply analogs of Earth empires of the past (that is Romulans=Romans, and Klingons=Soviet Russians). The best part of TNG were the episodes when we were allowed to see Klingon culture in action. Deep Space Nine had people *shock* questioning the Federation's motives, and there were a lot more moral shades of gray in the show.. which was why it was the best Trek series. Ah, well. I don't understand TV execs... "Charmed" can go on for 7 seasons, but "The Tick" dies after a few episodes.
I really love the ST universe, but Enterprise really made me miss my savingthrow vs. bad SCI-FI.
The original are well, original, I mean fine plots, good cast, but bad effects etc.
My all time favorite is TNG, which was excellent. Great cast, great plots, hell, I even liked Wesley Crusher! Sure, TNG had some medicore episodes also, but not that many.
Next, DS9. Well, I never quite knew what to make of that, it introduced more medicore episodes, but it also had some pearls, like the one where they travel back in time to the old Enterprice with Kirk and all, that was a great episode. But I don't think many of the characters had the required "screen presence" like all the regular crew of TNG had.
Voyager, well, many medicore episodes, but also a few interessting ones, though most of them were TNG ripoff with slight modifications. All respect of a woman captain, but Janeway dosen't even come close to Picard, in therms of being a Captain. The ending sucked++. They tried to spice the show up with a female ex-borg(Sounds sweedish, eh?) but even though she had a good potential to become a real interesting character, it turned out to be a titty-teaser. I mean, she was more like ex-borg barbie.
And then Enterprise, well, I was exited when I was going to watch the first episode, and I got annoyed right away with that horrible intro-tune, boy that suck suck suck!!! I actually fell asleep during the first episode, and I never ever fall asleep watching either TV or movies, only other movie that made me sleep is Revenge with Kevin Costner, and I was partly drunk when watching that!! Next episode I had to turn off the tv after 15 min, I don't know why, but it was just BO-RING!
It's a shame that they don't make them like they used to do, but if you watch the sad decline of quality in TV shows in general, it would be almost unnatural if StarTrek should go unaffected.
So, please, PLEASE put that horrible show Enterprise out of it's missery, and cancel it.
Even though the StarTrek world will decay, we might just get lucky that someone with the right amount of imagination will pick up the torch sometime in the future, it's dead in the water as it is now.
-H
I was really willing to give Enterprise a chance. It was an interesting concept, and even in the pilot a lot of storyline possibilities were opened up, most notably the temporal Cold Ward, but also seeing the beginings of the Human/Klingon and Human/Romulan wars. I was honestly extremely impressed by how the series started, and thought it was by FAR the best pilot for any of the Star Trek series.
And then, about the 6th episode, things just started to go downhill. The 6th episode, I believe, was that stupid one about the lost Earth colony that got struck my some kind of radioactive meteor, and only the kids survived because they were in undergound tunnels or something. It was a completely horid episode.
After that, they kept putting on episodes without a spark of originality, essentially just rehashes of old TNG or Voyager episodes. I still kept watching for a while, since they seemed to be getting back into the temporal cold war, and the first season ended nicely, but then all the work to develop that storyline was tossed out of the starboard airlock with the season 2 premier, never to be heard from again. Instead, they seemed to want me to abandon any concept on continuity by expect that everyone in the TNG timeframe would have forgotten that humans had already encountered both the Ferengi ("The Last Outpost" was their first face to face meeting) and the Borg (In "Q Who", I could have sword they had no idea what they were).
Since they not only did not respect their OWN previously established mythology (the series and movies, not the books), and abandoned good storylines to show me rehashed stories that I had already seen on their other shows, I actually stopped watching and haven't seen an episode since midway through that second season. Of course, part of that had to do with my supreme disappointment that Firefly had been canceled, and out of spite I did not want to stay with an inferior show. I for one won't be sorry to see this sorry attempt to destroy the mythos of Trek go.
I hope Porthos get some work though. The dog was the only character I managed to care about...
The only reason I watched UPN was Enterprise and Jake. I know NO one else who watches any other show. Although Enterprise feels strained I believe it has a great potential. They just need to get new writers and leave out the softcore porn.
Fighting the War on the War on Drugs.
http://smokedot.org/
They'd be better off still making it and selling it for syndication to whomever wants to broadcast it. Of maybe SciFi channel will pick it up. WOuld make a far better choice than continuing the 'battlestar galactica' kitch-remakes!
Please. Enterprise wishes it was as compelling as the Battlestar Galactica remake. That new mini-series actually had intriguing characters and gave some real drama and gravity to the survivors' situation. It rang a lot truer to me than Enterprise's tired, formulaic approach.
Whatever sense of wonder Enterprise tried to instill in its viewers had disappeared well before Season 1 had ended. This was supposed to show humanity's first trip into deep space. There should have been a lot more to see out there.
Visit me on the web at Permanent4.com.
After Roddenberry's death, the franchise has lost sight of its roots and been focussing more on merchandising and flash and glitz than a good story. While the various series are episodic rather than epic (a la Babylon 5), at least they used to have a pretence of a story. Now they simply rehash old ideas and repackage them into the series du jour. I started to watch Enterprise a couple of years ago because I was stoked about Scott Bakula (I loved his work on Quantum Leap), but quite frankly, his superb acting ability is hampered by shitty writing. So if Enterprise goes, I will shed not a tear -- I haven't watched the bloody thing in two years.
'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
I thought the current plotline was a pretty clever idea to solve the continuity problems (or at least avoid them in the future). By moving the action far away from Federation space, they've ensured that the ship won't encounter anything from another Star Trek series. Now, all they have to do is arrange for the Enterprise to never return to the Federation or even communicate with them- and nothing that happens in this show would have any effect on the stories that take place after it.
Jake 2.0 deserved to be cancelled because it was just stupid. I don't know who they were expecting to reach with that trash, but it just wasn't a compelling show at all.
Enterprise however is at least worth watching. Its unfortunate that UPN put it on at such a poor time slot, but thems the brakes I guess. If Enterprise does spiral into obscurity, hopefully when the shows return (probably in some internet fan format) they will return with more creativeness that the current producers are capable of mustering. Never before have I seen time travel used so much - its like casting a spell in a video game. Temporal Cold War? Dumbest plot EVER!
Idiots.
The only show I actually tune in for in first run television. Time for another write in campaign I guess.
The show is pretty bland.
And the guy playing the captain? Geez.... completely forgetable.
There's the vulcan chick, she's pretty hot, but she can't make up for the rest of the series.
Did I mention the captain kinda sucks?
It's not any one factor that makes the series uninteresting, but a combination of factors that screams (or bleats) out "we're only going through the motions here". It wasn't the viewers that killed Star Trek, it was the producer.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
The criminaly bad theme music.
Blaming GW Bush for the Iraq war is like blaming Ronald McDonald for the poor quality of food.
1 isn't great, but if you pretend it isn't star trek, its a few hours of okay special effects.
But 5? Holy cow...I get douche chills for the actors just watching it.
I find that you using a web browser, the internet, and web servers to post a diatribe about how lousy the "post war world" is terribly ironic.
Try to look past the end of your nose and if you think it's all tired crap then try to change it. (The tools that allow your message to be heard are 1000 times better today than in the "pre war world"
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
Who do we contact in order to voice our views? I want a number to call, or an email address, or SOMETHING to tell them not to cancel Enterprise. Also, I wonder why -- asside from what I've seen with the startrek.com website -- the very nature of Star Trek doesn't cater to it's loyal fans. You'd think they could capture entire generations of Star Trek, and have them glued to the tube. Maybe advertisers don't want to be associated with Star Trek anymore, note that all commercials aren't geared towards techheads, but they're starting to be -- a least the Internet crowd.
Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
After all, the Galaxy Quest movie cost 20 million less than Nemesis, made 30 million more in box office, looked better and had a better script.
Or, maybe not.
Jon Acheson
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
While, and I'm not sure of the the actual #'s, most TV shows do end up getting canceled some of them actually do just end. (Most time the actors are the ones who call it quits.)
Most notably would be Seifeld. When Jerry called it quits NBC was reportatly dropping a a few mill per ep and would have gladly given more.
Anyway, to get back on topic I'm not sure if TNG was canceled or they actually called it quits but it seemed like they did end it pretty gracefully. (Somewhat weak time travel plot ending not withstanding.)
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
After Nemesis and Enterprise, Star Trek needs to die. Brannon Braga and Rick Berman are a bunch of greedy fuckwits, dumbing down and morally sterilizing the franchise (God, I hate Janeway) to attract Mr. and Mrs. MTV lobotomized American, and should be killed as horribly and painfully as possible.
Okay, a little far. But Star Trek needs some serious time off, after which it should be handed over to someone who might actually care about the franchise, and hire proven, good writers who aren't afraid to take a chance. Berman, the franchise's current head, was Roddenberry's money guy, and Braga, the main writer, is a wannabe Jerry Bruckheimer hack, and he's not even very good at that. Someone like Joss Whedon (not sure if he even likes Star Trek, but he'd still do well), Ira Steven Behr, or even fucking Jonathan Frakes. I'm sure there are other, better candidates, but I haven't done my research.
The best idea I've heard, I'd even go so far as to say the only idea that might salvage our beloved Trek, is to do "Star Trek Adventures" (lame name, but I'm not in fucking marketing). Essentially, a series of short miniseries set in various times and places throughout the mythology. Like 3 gritty episodes following a Klingon strike team in the Dominion War, then a few following Q around, having fun. You could jump to way the fuck in the future and watch the crew of the Enterprise-Q make first (well, second) contact with the Andromeda galaxy, spend an episode following the successful assimilation of a civilization from the people's point of view, then another, from the Borgs', and then spend a few weeks chronicling Khan's rise to power in the 21st century. You could take any genre, jam it into a Star Trek setting, and have a go. It's unlimited! They could even pander to a few episodes of CSI: Ferenginar, or a stupid sitcom set on Bolius Prime. Hell, after a hiatus, you might even enjoy dropping in on the NX-01 for a while.
The current producers need to go, they need to get the fuck off UPN, and they possibly even need to ditch the whole lone ship of exploration thing. TOS and TNG were mostly original, DS9 went somewhere entirely different, and did damn well at it (mostly because Berman and Braga ignored it, and left it to his subordinates), Voyager was utterly derivative of TOS and TNG, with a quarter the enthusiasm and passion, and Enterprise started out as the third iteration of the law of diminishing returns on the whole lone ship in an increasingly sickeningly PC unexplored space. Something like "Star Trek Adventures", without Berman and Braga, is the only way to save Star Trek.
I knew it a week beforehand, when I saw the trailer. Here we have a show about a technologically enhanced (nanites!) government agent. Next week, special guest star Lee Majors. No, he wasn't playing Steve Austin, although that's probably because they were afraid of a WWE lawsuit, rather than the intrinsic lameness of the idea.
My wife and I both liked Jake 2.0. The writers did a good job of keeping Jake's inherent geekiness to the fore.
--
E_NOSIG
Star Trek has been crap for a long time, which makes me very sad. The only thing they haven't tried is to put Scrappy Doo on the show. I predict that next season, if they are picked up, we're going to see the addition of the following characters:
Scrappy Doo, Oliver (from the Brady Bunch), a "long lost cousin" of the Fonz, Neelix, and a monkey dressed in a dagget suit.
And Berman will be wondering aloud why people just aren't watching the show.
This is America, damnit. Speak Spanish!
If the series had instead of going with this "temporal cold war" idea gone with a simple "explore nearby space and meet new races" type idea, I heavily suspect that things would have been better.
Or how about they actually tell the story people wanted to hear?!
There was one and only one reason to make a Star Trek prequel series ever: Klingons.
Temporal cold war? Snooze. Interstellar terrorists? Whatever. There is one question worth answering and one story worth telling from this era of the mythos: how did Earth go, in the space of a generation, from being a backwater planet that had just discovered warp drive, to being the de facto leader of a galactic alliance and holding their own against a hostile empire that had been spacefaring for centuries more?
In the hands of writers who actually gave a shit about the story, this could have been compelling television. Instead: more shower scenes! The captain's dog is sick! Oh no, we're cancelled! Sigh.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
TNG: great
DS9: good
STV: poor
ENT: awful
and it started out on a good foot. I overlooked the obvious inconsistencies in the interest of light entertainment, but over time the plot just seemed to stagnate. They introduce the expanse and the xindi to 'spice' the show up and the new season has been so obviously slutting for ratings. The new uniforms, the close intimate scenes between T'Pol and Tucker, the added combat element, the "ohnoes we're in constant danger" expanse ( with klingons thrown in for good measure ), and the melodramtic revenge motives all add up to something that deserves to be dead and buried and forgotten.
Enterprise tried to be a "star trek for the common viewer" but in doing so it has disenfranchised the Star Trek fanbase while failing to impress on any new potential audience.
-- hjw http://puzl.info/
Her boobs weren't really that big; she is just skinny.
She is hot. She wasn't what was wrong with the the show.
Star Trek in order from best to worst ( Items in Parens are equal to each other in 'goodness' ) (2,4),3,First Contact,(6,Space-Rainbow-Thingy,1),1,(Nemesis,5)
Eat at Joe's.
The plot crutch that ST:TNG came up with - incessant time travel used as a means to show alternate timelines or realities - has helped to ruin Enterprise.
What I mean is - it's been discussed on the newsgroups that Enterprise is creating a future for itself that is *not* the NCC-1701A, due to the meddling of "future guy" and the Suliban. So we have an Enterprise that is creating a timeline that may not even *include* Kirk or Picard.
The most boring episodes of TNG were those where Picard gave a knowing wink to Guinan and said something idiotic like "I'll see YOU in 500 years in a few minutes". This "anything goes because the writers have a trap door for all situations" removes tension and human interest.
The writers and producers of this show lack any spark of creativity whatsoever. The Trek franchise is a friggin' Cuisinart of bad and repetitive writing. One episode last season was a blatant ripoff of "Alien Mine" down to the shape of the lizard alien's head. And they have to rely on elaborate deus ex machina crap for most of their story ideas and for resolution of plots.
Kill it, Jim, it's dead already.
...I suppose from the TV guide.
Buy Text Processing in Python
Jake 2.0 and Enterprise are the only 2 shows I watch on UPN now that Buffy is gone. And because of their timeslot I had to go to special effort to watch them, recording them on a 2nd VCR, since I'm never home at that time, and I also watch Smallvill and Angel.
I've even considered setting up a 3rd VCR for that night.
Let's admit it: Star Trek sucks. True sci-fi fans will only watch it for fun. Most Star Trek fans are casual mainstream fans who are not into sci-fi. Shows like Babylon 5 were 100x better.
And worst of all... the Star Trek films. Man, they suck really badly. No true sci-fi fan would be caught watching them over Contact, 2001:ASO, Solaris, or the few other sci-fi movies.
Also, Star Trek society is very authoratarian society. Has anyone noticed how doctors or engineers are below commanders? Yep, Star Trek is a classist society taken to the extreme. Modern world is 100x better (even for the suffering) than Star Trek. Star Trek is also fake in that sense it does not show the downside of humanity (eg. homeless, organized criminals, etc)--yes these people will exist in the future (if it is a classist society like Star Trek). On top of all that, how come most aliens are humanoids and behave just like humans? It's almost as if aliens didn't even exist?
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places
When Paramount Studios tried to cancel the original series back in the late 60's, Bjo Trimble organized star trek fans to undertake a huge letter-writing campaign that helped paramount decided to renew Star Trek's contract for another season. There was a tremendous groundswell of support among the fans at the time.
This time there will be no grassroots fan support. Unlike Star Trek, Enterprise has no real fan base. Enterprise is a shallow show, which doesn't delve into politics or social issues which made Star Trek so powerful. Exploring Vulcan sensuality is not a social issue.
I've seen the same post a few time.. the premise of Andromeda set in the ST universe would be awesome. Hell, Andromeda's premise was awesome enough, but the writing sucks ass and the storylines are more campy than ST:TOS's. In my opinion, there is no good scifi on TV.. unless [FLAME_RETARDANT_SUIT_ON] they make a series out of the Battlestar Galactica thing on the SciFi channel..
I see all this talk about how 'Old storylines being reused' is the cause of failure of the franchise and it drives me nuts. I can't remember (nor can I find) the supposed number of original plots (somewhere between 7-14), but the whole thing can be spelled out in a very wonderful quote. "A story is not what it is about, but how it is about it." -Ebert
That being said, a little more creativity and ingenuity on behalf of the writers would make for more interesting shows...but that really goes without saying.
fs
Although former enemies, the Andorian Imperial Guard helps the Enterprise crew steal the Xindi's superweapon. Seems abrupt.
My local UPN station (Detroit) preempts UPN programming more often than they play it. Seems they'd rather be a sports channel. Even if I didn't find the detox scenes and other fluff kinda silly I'd have a hard time getting into a program with an unpredictable schedule. Amy
Everyone has at least one good star trek episode in them. They ought to run it like America's Funniest Animals: If we use your script ( possibly polished up by some hacks ) in an episode of the new series, Star Trek: Even Tighter Tights, then we'll send you a Tee-Shirt and $100.00
Eat at Joe's.
Go later. Start in Year 15821, as humans are starting to evolve to be more Q-like they get into trouble with the still more powerful but now threatened Q continuum.
Please go here and read.
We should all send a card to them to let the producers know we care about the show and want them to continue
http://www.enterpriseproject.org/
How about instead of cancelling the show they end the temporal cold war, which would mean the klingon never came to earth and therefore the entire series didn't actually happen, so they can go straight back to the beginning as though the first seasons never happened (I know - after the scene ending the TCW they cut to Archer leaving his shower on Earth). Then they can meet the klingons properly and immediatly go to war with them.
Tk
At some point, somewhere, the entire internet will be found to be illegal.
Part of what made Trek so great was that you could sit down to a single episode and watch a story. The writer picked and issue, wrote a story about it, made his point and you had something to think about.
Enterprise doesn't work that way. The way it's written you lose track of where you're at if you miss an episode. For those of us who aren't die hard trekkies (oh, now I've done it) that can happen. The show is in a crappy time slot and many of us don't own Tivo or whatever. So I missed a couple of episodes, finally caught one and was totally lost on the story line. That really doesn't encourage me to tune in next week.
I'm going to agree with the comments about the breasts and lather. I'm all for seeing a nice set of tits, don't get me wrong on that. But it doesn't do anything for the story. If I want tits I can tune an adult channel or surf pr0n. When I sit down and tune in Enterprise I'm expecting good science fiction...and so far I'm sorely disappointed.
Star Trek was something Rodenbery used to get people to think about the issues of the day while entertaining them. It was good at that. Notice that it was similar to other hits of the period (Gunsmoke, Ponderosa, etc) and they wern't serials either.
To recap, my advice for the producers:
1) Change the format of the show, it should be a collection of related episodes, not a serial.
2) Tackle the issues of the day, stick your necks out a bit.
3) Quit flaunting the tits and ass. By all means keep them in the show, just quit trying to use them to get people to tune in.
4) Fight for a better time slot. Then go forth and promote the hell out of it and remind people to tune in at that time to see the new version of the show that doesn't suck.
Not that they'll listen. I'm afraid it's too far gone at this point. Even the geeks living in their mothers basements have lost faith and interest.
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
I haven't watched Star Trek since Rick Berman took over from Gene Roddenberry. Berman just doesn't have the vision that Roddenberry did. Rod imparted a vision of utopia to the show that, even though I'm a libertarian and hence a solid utopia-skeptic, I enjoyed watching (and mentally debating) anyway.
TNG was the last series infused with Roddenberry's vision, as Berman took over near the end of it. I watched "All Good Things", which kicked ass and was a nice tribute to Roddenberry's broad thinking, and that was all she wrote for me. Once I'm out of grad school and have some income again, I'll pick up the TNG DVDs and save them for my kids and posterity.
Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
Had to be said. :)
- Necron69
Taking your sweeping series at face value, let me point out a few things. DS9 had some real stinker episodes and even some stinker story arcs. Voyager had a few episodes that were among the best in the franchise.
The point is, the thing that really had me rolling my eyes at many of the Voyager and DS9 episodes is how poorly written they were. They were organized around gimmicks which were simply patronizing to the fans of the franchise. To be fair, doing something memorable is going to be a huge challenge in along running franchise like ST. However, I think the ST writers would do well to be suspicious of "concepts" that scream to be summed up on one line ending with an exclamation point, e.g. "Let's have the whole cast play a baseball games against the vulcans!", or " Let's have Janeway fall in love with a hologram (OK, I can buy that) from a cute irish village!" Message to Mr. Berman: desperation is showing.
This has been a bit of a problem in every post TOS series, but it has steadily grown. Enterprise is the worst offender. I often feel like the writers are talking down to me. Or perhaps they aren't trying to talk to me, but to a demographic. You know, the kind that has to have "edginess". It's art by formula, but Komar and Melamid they ain't.
It's not a mystery that the franchise has lost its way since Rodenberry's death. The thing about Rodenberry is that he had a vision. At times it was a cringe-inducingly naive and parochial vision. But it was a vision you could buy into because the show really believed in it.
With Enterprise, the franchise's masters are trying to recapture the sexiness of TOS. But they fail because what they come up with is as artifical as a pair of regulation issue 40DD boobs. Enterprise doesn't believe in sexiness, it just needs a certain amount of it to meet the product specifications they have in mind. Take so much T&A, so much gunplay and battle, sprinkle at least one gimmick, stir and serve lukewarm.
Even when Enterprise raises what could be a provocative issue ("can torture be justified"), it ends up shying away because it doesn't believe anything. Time for another half nude shot of Jolene Blalock! No offense to her; despite her obvious endowments I think she is quite skilled and talented, as is much of the rest of the cast. They just aren't given anything interesting to do. I'd be glad to see a half-nude or even full-nude shots of Jolene Blalock in every episode. Rodenberry would have loved it. Just give the rest of my brain something to keep it occupied.
So, Enerprise just drifts in limbo, having neither the freshness and energy of TOS, or the gravitas and maturity of TNG. What it does have is "edginess", which I suppose is a kind of nervous tick. The fascination of that kind of thing is rather limited.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Noooooooooo, I need my weekly fix of SciFi crap. I need something to strive for and with Bush wanting to go back to the future on the Moon and Beyond, we need Star Trek more than ever to inspire!
But, if they need to spice up the show why don't they just mix in some Quantum Leap. Imagine, someone from the future leaps back into the Enterprise time frame and helps out to make the future work out. Help out with the Xindi, help with the formation with The Federation.
You know what I mean.
It is ripe for moulding into something else on the cheap. I want to see a new network take over the series. The Playboy Channel should buy the rights ot Star Trek and make Sex Trek, the Holodeck Planet.
I watched a few episodes of Enterprise. It's not bad, but it's not that great either.
Could you let me know which ones? ;)
Seriously, I watched from the start, up through the first few episodes of this season, and I would say that "bad" is a pretty good summary. No tears will be shed here if it's cancelled.
[kidding]And tie it in loosely with Herbert's Dune Series. Have some drug on a sandy planet populated by Giant Worms be the only way to navigate. Also Hokey religion-parodies. [/kidding]
Eat at Joe's.
good bye
good riddance
nuff said...ank
Casting girls they want to or are banging isn't a way to get off to a good start. Their fascination with skin tight jump suits was the first step showing their disdain for the audience.
Enterprise was horrendous. Plot and SET inconsistencies are all through out the run. The fake sexual tension with their vulcan bimbo wasn't even remotely viable.
They seemed to make Earthers out to be bumbling idiots. One of the compelling reasons old ST was good was that the crew were heroic in many ways.
Enterprise is Star Trek gone PC to an extreme. Voyager went so far off track it got to just be silly. Introducing 6of9 (I know its 7of9) was icing on the cake.
imagine it's not based on star trek. It might be more tolerable then.
ST is a series that passed through the innovative to the self-deprecating to the nostalgic. It's called a cycle. It happens to any set of shows that last long enough.
In today's environment where only a small number of scifi shows is allowed to exist with a real budget, I'm not going to be missing ST too much since it will leave a void. I would much rather see 13 episodes of a show like Firefly than any number of ST:Enterprise episodes. Plus I would much rather that the money going into ST:Enterprise were available for a new show to come into it's own.
Besides, we already know what the next 150 years after ST:E are going to come to. Earth survives, the Federation comes along, etc etc.
This is not a comment against ST:E's acting or writing. It has been at least on par with previous ST series. It is the series itself that has been worn out.
It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
The real problem with Star Trek is that it's controlled by a pair of egotists who:
1) Think of Star Trek as a franchise to be exploited, instead of as an opportunity to tell great stories. This means that everything is derivitive retreads of existing material, because that's the safest tactic. This is whey don't hire real SF writers (e.g. Niven, Ellison, Gerrold) but instead hire TV writers who slap SF gadgetry and doubletalk over generic TV show plots.
2) resent the fact that everyone likes Gene Roddenberry's work better, and keep trying to create an "original vision" instead of executing GR's vision well. This is why they even took the name "Star Trek" off of Enterprise. They don't want to make Star Trek a success, they want to make something "new" a success, only they don't have the guts to actually create anything new, so they're trying to hijack Star Trek. This same issue is why the movie of Dune sucked (the director didn't want to simply film Dune, but had to get his ego involved), but LOTR was wonderful (Jackson told the original story perfectly, no ego BS), only Enterprise gets to suck weekly.
It's a shame, since Star Trek has so many fans, and the actors and effects in Enterprise are first rate. It's just the writing that sucks.
My advice: hire real SF writers and give them real creative control. Or watch Outer Limits instead. Or Farscape, Lexx, or SG-1....
Enable 3D printed prosthetics!
One of the major points of Firefly is that it's the exact opposite of Star Trek: ... The equivalent of the Federation is corrupt and oppressive ... The crew is held together by loyalty rather than duty ... The premise is that humanity hasn't really changed in the far future, things are still basically the same, just with spaceships. None of that exists in the Trek series'."
(Well, they did have that whole Maquis thing, but...) Heck, yeah! That's what I want to see! I mean, I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Trekkie (or whatever we're calling ourselves these days), but even I get a little tired of the "shining meteors on our collars" stuff. Picard would rather chop off his arm than kill an evil person in cold blood, but Mal will kick them through an engine without a second thought. WWKD? (What would Kirk do?) I think that "Captain Tightpants" had more in common with Kirk (and for that matter, Sisko) than with the effete Picard, or Archer - leaving Janeway out for the moment.
I think that some of the best moments in contemporary Trek have come at the exploration of the demimonde: the DS9 ep where Sisko works with Garak to trick the Romulans into joining the Dominion War (heck, any DS9 ep with Garak in it!), the "Below Decks" episode of TNG.
I know that it's almost contra to the whole premise of Star Trek, showing evolved humans at their best, but we still see Picard shooting Borg with a Tommy Gun, many Prime Directive violations by Janeway, Sisko acting so much like a thug (when the occasion called for it) that I just wanted him to put on the (Spense for Hire) sunglasses and leather coat, and Archer ready to push a captive alien out of an airlock. It's true, that humanity hasn't really changed in the far future, things are still basically the same, just with spaceships. And that's just the way it should be; all other paths lead to Bill Joy-esque humans evolving into toxin-respirating dolphins or something.
P.S. - In my last post, I suggested that Whedon bring Jewel Saite to Trek. Do you think he could find room for Alyson Hannigan, too? Maybe in a cat-suit?
Carthago delenda est!
You took the words out of my mouth.
I just couldn't get that upset about watching it bog down, sicken and die... Berman and Braga are stunningly mediocre in my opinion, and, though they let a few interesting ideas or even whole episodes slip by once in a while, I tend to find their work cringe-inducing and unwatchable. And that's from a confirmed advocate of really bad scifi.
After trying to watch 5 minutes of the "average" Voyager episode I feel like I need a shower and then probably a stiff drink. Another alien food joke? Another agonizing "human" moment between characters that spans four commercial breaks? What's the particle of the week, Rick? There have to be community college drama classes that are less painful than this. Or DS9? How about 30 minutes of Why-Pop-Psychology-Has-A-Bad-Reputation with forehead and nose prosthetics for emphasis? If I were forced to watch it I would have fantasies about putting actual liquor in those stupid blue drinks at that alien's bar just because it would be something, anything to halt the impenetrable monotony. Don't even get me started on "Enterprise." Pokemon is more creative than these guys 9 days out of 10. I imagine the writers were raised on a diet of constant, uninterrupted daytime soap operas, but really their kind of dreamlike self-indulgence is hard to find parallels for and is probably in a class by itself. On the bright side, if you want to clear out a room, all you need is some recent Star Trek on tape and a big TV.
Star Trek should pray for a quick death. Maybe after the name is finally wrested from the idiot clutches of the current regime there might be some interesting new work done... but I kind of doubt it. RIP...
Want to Know How to Cheat the GPL? Read On!
Am I a bad person if I don't care? Frankly, the initial concept of Jake 2.0 was great, but the implementation of it was garbage with mediocre acting (at best), and predictable plots that were pseudo-xfiles-meets-million-dollar-man. Enterprise wasn't much better, the main plot point being an attack from some unknown civilization, and now humans are hellbent on revenge. The best thing for Enterprise is to fade into oblivion, just like the rest of the Star Trek franchise. While all very cutsy, where else do you go after generations? Hell, 99% of the 'new species' they came up against were inferior races. The only bonus to Enterprise was seeing how puny they were compared to what Generations considered inferior. Frankly the entire show/franchise was a waste of my time, because given the current climate of people in the world, we'll never actually develope the types of technologies that we'd need to break away from this rock to begin with... therefore, this is all just a lot of drivel without any real benefit other than entertainment... And to get back to what I said earlier... the entertainment factor has been pretty well played out for the Trek saga's... oh well, time to move on!
While I wouldn't be sad to see Enterprise cancelled and the franchise shelved, I don't understand people who hate the show because it is stepping all over the sacred "canon" of the Star Trek universe. The franchise is approaching forty years old; why bother tiptoeing around canon if it prevents writers from telling good stories? (Of course, the writers and/or Powers That Be prevent the stories from being anything but bland and derivative.) A show that's part of a larger canon will never get new viewers if they have to worry about four other series' worth of episodes.
Look at some long-running comic books. Many if not all of them have hit the canonical reset buttom multiple times in the hopes of attracting new fans without weighing them down with years of canon to worry about. X-Men benefitted greatly from a recent run as [i]The New X-Men[/i] under Grant Morrison.
I'd love to see a complete re-imagining of the Star Trek universe a decade or so from now. Simply start over or don't concern with audience with hundreds of previous episodes. The recent re-imagining of [i]Battlestar Galactica[/i] changed my opinion of the story as something worth telling rather than as a kitschy 1970s Star Wars wannabe; hopefully, a new Star Trek would do the same for many others.
return;
Hey, somebody had to say it!
Seriously, I was prepared to not like this show when it premiered. Right out of the box it looked like I was going that way with that theme song (lyrics!?!?) but I got over that. The first season kind of meandered about but now seems to have gotten more of a focus and a real storyline to tie the episodes together.
I'll miss this show if it is gone. It's no DS9 but it's gotten good enough to deserve renewal.
"The bigger the lie, the more they believe." - Det. Bunk
Some of us still remember your vision of 'Trek, rather than the rewarmed replicator gruel that it has become.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
the demographic which watches sci fi tends to be smarter and more critical than the general populous
And a beowolf cluster of soviet monkeys might fly out of natalie portman's underpants with grits earl grey hot in phase two!
There was a lot of overlap with Trekkies and Batman the TV show fans. And they didn't consider them so fantastically campy they were cool.
Even Buck Roger's and Battlestar Galactica were composed of a simple three part formula. Superfoxy refugees from daytime soaps, explosions, and space. No thought was given to plot, and even less to the actual dialogue.
At least the the original series had an unaware innocence; while its successors acquried a little of the metalic taste from the cookie cutter machine used to produce them. Even TNG barely rises to shlock. TOS gets a pass, because it reminds us of a time when we were silly and didn't know any better. I'd boldly demand, like no viewer before, that Hollywood make new mistakes as opposed to seeking to recapture the magic of old ones. But an army of one isn't quite as imposing as some commercials might lead one to believe.
I'm surprised that 5yearmission.com hasn't been mentioned yet. Free Star Trek spin off episodes and the proceeds go to a good cause.
The last couple of seasons of DS9 were REALLY good, to the point that I think the whole Star Trek TV franchise peaked with DS9.
Voyager stank, and Enterprise is beyond putrid.
It's dead, Jim.
DG
Want to learn about race cars? Read my Book
Once the producers realize that it takes more than tight uniforms and fancy effects to sell a show -- that is, once they realize that it actually takes good writing and decent character growth -- then 'Enterprise' will succeed.
I watched pretty much the whole of season 1, and a couple of episodes in season 2 before I gave up. In all that time, I never saw an episode where I wasn't left with a feeling of "That was it? That's all?"
The original 'Star Trek' touched on racism, facism, and Lord only knows how many other subjects that were 'taboo' for the time, and they did it extremely well (who could forget the episode where Naziism practically took over another world?)
But the other thing that made the original 'Star Trek' work, and work well, was the character interplay between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. I've yet to see that same kind of complex interplay shown anywhere other than DS9. It certainly doesn't show up in 'Enterprise.'
Berman and Braga have no one to blame but themselves for the fact that 'Enterprise' is stalling. They're trying to sell a franchise instead of producing thought-provoking politically-incorrect stories. Once they realize that (IF they realize it -- I'm not holding my breath), and turn it around, I think they'll have better luck.
Gene Roddenberry's got to be reaching about 8500 RPM by now...
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,
Blue Feather Technologies
The Star Trek from the late 60's was a great show. What came after that was not really Star Trek. All though TNG was not a bad show or anything, it still was not really Star Trek. After TNG the TV shows that were called "Star Trek" were pretty horrible in my opinion. Star Trek was a show from a certain time and cannot truely be recreated. There can never be another Spock or Kirk.
-Lauren.
"Most interesting how often you humans seem to obtain that which you do not want" -Spock
Getting the scripts from good writers.
But I'd go a bit further. Hire the good writers to come up with a story that can be broken down into 5 years worth of scripts. A real story. One that fits with the existing mythology.
Then, each writer could handle different scripts. Each episode would be part of the same story, but they would be told in a different fashion. You could even have one writer handling a sub-story for 5 or 6 episodes in a row.
Do the original, "5 year mission" of the FIRST star ship to leave our solar system. Things break, people get on each other's nerves, people DIE, the crew sees things that no other human has ever seen. The characters grow and develop.
If they did that right, they could even get two movies out in that time frame.
Good writers (not all science fiction) collaborating on a multi-year series and a couple films.
It will never happen, but I think it would be a great idea.
Now, what would make me happy is to hear about more in the above two universes--or even better, a film or TV version of the Vorkosigan Saga or even Weber's Honor Harrington books.
For the first two years of the show, UPN had no satellite feed of the program and refused to offer one.
Then, it came to satellite and the wizards scheduled it opposite West Wing.
The failure of the show is not in its content but due to it's owners' incredibly stupid decisions.
Perhaps they should sell the thing to Sci-Fi and have them fix it like they did Stargate SG-1...
I am so sick of Trek fans complaining about the sex. I like the sex and T'Pol is hot.
That phrase alone deserves a +10
Mod me redundant cuz I'm here voting as another person who won't miss Enterprise a bit. It's boring! I don't even know why I watch it anymore.
Who's the new useless plot device lately?
Looking like bugs from Galaxy Quest,
Latest contrivance in Dupont Latex,
EVERYONE KNOWS IT'S XINDI!
...-.-
I do thik the writing is inconsistent, and plotlines die off like neadertals (so, are Trip and T'Pol gonna make it or what? Whatever happened to the Space Delta Force guys?) But overall, I like the cast and their mission.
One major problem is that it competes directly with two hit shows - That 70's Show and Smallville. A move to another time slot might help.
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
Whenever Jolene Blalock is on camera, I don't pay attention to anybody else. She seems to be the only person that can keep this show on the air. She is a beautiful woman, too bad that she is married. Pointy years are so sexy. All the star trek shows of the past were based on intellectual events and discussions between the characters and not much action. I have not seen voyager though. Nemesis did a polarity shift and all of it was pure action without much of a story and a lot of CGI, just like many other stupid Hollywood movies in the recent years. Enterprise is a good show, a lot of action, some story (not the greatest). I wonder how the ratings will go down if you take Jolene Blalock out of a few episodes. While I enjoy seeing Jolene in those sexy clothes, the viewers should focus on the character instead of what the actor looks like. They could do a test run of a few episodes with her wearing the normal uniform on the Enterprise and see how the viewers react.
Have you even seen an episode of Star Trek: TNG from its heyday?
TNG was about making statements on humanity and exploring social issues, using the backdrop of a sci-fi space drama.
They keep showing the episode on Spike TV where the young recruit goes on the undercover mission with the terrorist organization, grows fond of them, and eventually defects. The last shot of the episode is Picard sitting in his room in defeat, lost in thought, wondering if he pushed her too hard...
That was good writing.
Fuck, this is hilarious.
What we need is a daily space soap opera. The setting could be oh, a moon base, an asteriod mining colony, an asteriod colony ship headed away from Earth and will take X years to reach the nearest star, or space station. The key is to have a small town population that is convined and self supporting. You can have plots that are based on politics, how they've modified laws or criminal justice to fit, about economics, you could have feuding families and competing departments or guilds. Conflict, story, and soft core porn is what draws audences. Remember that and you'll be set.
Face it, Enterprise sucks. Paramount has completely mismanaged their Star Trek liscense ever since they ended Voyager. And even that series was only somewhat decent. Actvision actually sued them for ruining the franchise and hurting the value of Activision's liscense to publish the Star Trek video games.
It could be very good. The more advanced ships with the more advanced weapons and shields would be the ones taken over by the machines.
In order to combat the faster, computer controlled ships, people start getting cybernetic enhancements so they can combat the pure machines.
Humanity becomes like the Borg to defeat the pure machine intelligences. Will humanity become the new Borg?
Perhaps they should let geeks manage the plots and stories for a season. It couldn't hurt. Sure, that might narrow its appeal, but with so many choices these days, catering to a narrower niche might be a selling point. In other words, please a half million 90 percent instead of please 50 million 40 percent, because in the latter case nobody will come back.
Table-ized A.I.
There's an easy way to boost ratings here and ensure the future of the show. Have the Enterprise blow up and replace it with a new ship that's shaped like a giant, metallic boob. Oil it up frequently.
Ok, then.
KHAAAAAAAAAAAAN!
-Flakbait
Temporary Minister of Propoganda for the Assyrian Empire
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the 'kook' t-shirts in my former post above. It probably goes without saying, though, since there'd be so many of them. I said it anyway.
With a theme song that sounds like Dawson's Creek, all us geeks hear it and change to see what's coming on sci-fi.
"The best laid plans of mice and men gang oft agley..." - ROBERT BURNS
I know only TOS... That's all...
William Shatner is the captain... Everyone else is crap...
http://www.5yearmission.com/ If your sick of the new crap, watch it done right, a great first show and more in production.
(Gene Roddenbery wasn't a total hack, but he wasn't the creative genius Trekkies like to paint him as. His role in TOS series was mainly to sell the product to the network -- most of the creative work was done by other people. But like all Hollywood hucksters, St. Gene was skilled at grabbing the credit.)
Then in the last season or two, they started skimping badly on the writing budget. Writers complained about being forced to share credits (and thus payment) and even having their story ideas ripped off with no payment at all. They also lost interest in playing with ideas, which is the basis of all good SF.
Many Trekkies (that's the word, live with it) don't seem to have minded the corniness of the early TNG and the hackiness of the late TNG and all the other series. They only started to complain with the repitition got really blatant. But for me, every Star Trek after TOS was mostly crap, relieved by occasional good stories. (Which sounds bad, but is pretty much like genre fiction in general.) The good stories started to dry up a couple of seasons into Voyager. That was the end of Star Trek for me.
More free time for me to read books/surf the net/game/work on my car/etc.
Seriously. Commercial TV is dead. We'll keep skipping commercials as long as it's still technically feasible to do so. Studios will cease making series that run multiple years, or cost tons of money. And ALL of Human Civilization will be better off.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Maybe if UPN developed a Trek that fit their core audience, like Moesha in Space or something.... nahh.
I'd have a personalized plate on my car, but "toxic bachelor" won't fit into 7 letters.
They're still making Enterprise?
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
You get a laugh, but the books aren't that much better. I've been collecting Star trek books for years, and their too the formula disease has struck. I just think that people's imagination's are on the decline. After all when science fact is more fantastic than science fiction, where's the room?
Aside from the technical point of view (sound in space, phase changes fix problems with warp drive etc.) the whole "we humans will learn how to live like beings with good, high-standard morals is just way too ridiculous to even remotely make sense.
--
B0mbtruck set YOU up the bomb !!!
if you want "No More Hiroshimas" then I say "You First. No More Pearl Harbors."
Generally speaking, I agree with most of the comments here. The newer series tend to get more bland and formulaic with each episode, relying on tired plot devices and shallow character development.
I am of the belief that one of the main appeals to the early series, and specifically TNG which successfully demonstrated that ST was far from dead, was the focus around a number of politically-incorrect themes, such as the insignificance of materialism, the destructive and counteproductive forces of religion, and most importantly, the desire to learn and explore. There was a lot of humility ingrained into the early episodes that seems quite out of style these days.
TNG was a brilliant series in the way it really made you wonder what the crew was going to encounter next, and you weren't banging your head at the stupidity of their actions. The scenarios were realistic and believable; the character development made a lot more sense. DSN came along and incorporated a more epic-type ongoing conflict and also introduced religion as a major plot point, but showed both sides of the issue. It was especially refreshing to see villanous characters which had great depth and the ability to turn themselves around. Then Voyager came along, and like the ship itself, it was lost in space, devoid of any identity or purpose and seemed to merely be a shallow plot device to rehash the same conflicts over and over. When I first saw Enterprise, I realized the process of taking a brilliant series and turning it into "Cheers" was complete. Not to mention, Enterprise has one of the worst theme songs ever written.
I've seen a few decent Enterprise episodes, but overall, the series is drowning in unoriginality.
I hate to say it but the series does need to be put to rest. Something better will come along, probably on HBO since they seem to be the last remaining network that tackles real issues in a realistic way.
While I enjoyed 7 Days while it was on, that was before I properly discovered The West Wing. UPN has no chance at competing against the wednesday at 9:00 lineup. They traditionally stick their Star Trek offering on Wednesday at 8:00 because that's their best showing, traditionally. If you see the history of shows that came at 9:00 (even after Voyager when it was still on!) they were mostly throw aways.
Again, the only good lead out was 7 Days, but you can't judge any Star Trek show with its lead out. They ALL get canned after 1 or 2 seasons. Twilight Zone, Jake 2.0, 7 days, you name it. That's because they don't expect to put up a fight then.
I only figured twilight zone would last a while because it can be made relatively cheaply and still turn a profit with low viewership.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
that the franchise wasn't killed before Voyager came out.
... but good.
I can't say I'm sorry to hear that Enterprise is in danger of cancellation. I recently began reading Star Trek Creator: The Authorized Biography of Gene Roddenberry, and hearing in Roddenberry's own words about his vision of Star Trek, I can only say that the current Trek producers are pretty much raping the hell out of the Trek dream for pure marketing and financial reasons. Most of the movies and television series have become incredibly jingoistic and militaristic, and both ironically pretty much encompass almost every single thing that Roddenberry warns against. Roddenberry didn't have it perfect, either, but he cared with an obsessive-compulsive passion about the cohesiveness of his creation. The loss of that shows clearly. And the sheer contempt for prior series continuity that is evident in Enterprise absolutely disgusts me.
I'm a Trek fan. Not a con-attending, fanfic-writing one, but certainly semi-passionate; I often find myself reading the books, trying to catch the movies, etc. I was a Trekker even before TNG came out, and read the books as a young teenager. And right now, I could see nothing better for the franchise than for it to die. It's been milked to death and beyond, and the people in charge of the franchise now remind me of necrophiliacs who will simply continue humping the corpse until it decays to dust around them. Strong words, but sincerely, non-trollishly meant.
I want Enterprise to succeed.
Fact is, Enterprise has been fairly weak. I've felt since the very beginning of the show that the creators are grasping for audience. The obvious attempts at Star Trek cleansed sexy scenes, this stupid Expanse theme, all aimed at drawing audience "share" but not intellectual junk food us geeks look for and made the other series popular. The way you get audience is by writing good scripts. TNG showed that.
Enterprise has a lot going for it... getting to see the initial meetings with Andoreans, Tellarians, Klingons, Romulans, etc. was really fun, they need to get out of this stupid expanse plotline quick...
DS9 was obviously the best ST. The writing was absolutely phenomenal. The story arcs make for a truly epic saga. If you all really hate Enterprise so much, go buy up the DS9 DVD set and watch it again. It really is the best of all treks. I'm glad they are continuing the storyline from DS9 in the books into the future.
TOS has a place in my heart, but it was pretty campy though it had some good moments. It's classic. And everyone can just STFU about the Enterprise Klingons not looking like TOS Klingons. Is it so hard to understand that a goatee isn't going to make a convincing Klingon these days? Tards...
Voyager sucked. That's an empirical fact. Cheesiest dialog (even worse than TOS) and huge plot holes.
TNG was a great show once it got it's legs. It was a lot more timid than DS9, but I think it's definitely the second best trek.
Bingo. That was the story that people were interested in watching. But doing it right would have required an actual investment in time, money and professional writers. Sigh.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
Nailed it in one. It's quatro formagio with extra cheese. None of the other STs had such a lame effort.
I always thought it should start with a flashing blue light, a view of the main screen showing a klingon ship firing, and then cut to the captain who says "Oh boy!"
I forsee the perfect time slot opening up in the mainstream network continum, It's time for the Tardis to make an appearance! Actually, merging DW and Star Trek would be even better. Having the cybermen stomp the personel of the enterprise to have the daleks show up, and then blow up the enterprise killing all on board up would the highlight of the entire Enterprise series. I can see it all in my minds eye, a few seconds after the enterprise is totally obliterated, we see archers frozen severed head tumbling in outer space, BUT WAIT?? WHAT'S THAT NOISE? (swoosh swoOSH SWOOSH PLONK!), IT's THE TARDIS! HERE TO SAVE THE DAY AND this time slot!
Fire Rick Berman and Brannon Braga and never let them have anything to do with Star Trek ever again.
After that, bring in some decent writers that really give a crap about Star Trek to do some innovative scripts. One of the things that made the Original Series shine was the writing, much of it by experienced science-fiction writers (Richard Matheson, Robert Bloch, David Gerrold, Norman Spinrad, Harlan Ellison, etc.) that knew the genre conventions and could produce good, watchable stories. Roddenberry supplied the unifying vision and elements, but the writers were the ones who fleshed it out into what we think of as Star Trek today. Like they say, "If it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage."
As for who'd run the show if B&B got canned...I keep wondering what J. Michael Straczynski would do with the Star Trek franchise. We know he already knows how to run a successful SF series; why not give him the chance to rescue Star Trek?
Of course, at this point, maybe what Star Trek needs is a decade or so back in cryostasis...so, when somebody revives it again, in 2015 or thereabouts, it'll be fresh again, and it'll be something people will want to watch. And maybe they won't make the same mistakes as they made this time.
Be who you are...and be it in style!
Wasn't that Jack Handey that said that?
Be who you are...and be it in style!
I guess i have to watch Queer Eye for the Straight guy on the nights I'm not waxing my legs and cross dressing.
Alex
I eagerly watched the first episode with unbridled anticipation. It was to be the dawn of old era in the Star Trek universe. The plot was chugging along with a few doses of intrigue and suddenly knee deep in vulcan nipples. Heck, at the time I was more than enthused with the scene. But, immediately after I'm left think "WTF!?"
Star Trek isn't supposed to be like the rest of mainstream survivor/fear factor smut, it's supposed to be alternate dimensions, time travel, omnipotent aliens, and intra-galactic battles brain candy. On the other hand, maybe the green babe in TOS was considered racy back in the 60's? Needless to say that was the first and last episode I fully watched. The rest only required 2 minutes to tell the plot sucked.
Can someone please explain to me why they felt Nemesis was such a flop? I actually thought it was one of the better TNG movies. It had more of the elements of TNG that made the series so great.
Admittedly, parts of it were a bit lame, like the "temportal RNA processing". But Star Trek always did tend to make up strange scientific elements, like tachyon radiation.
The ending was a bit surprising. I always felt Data was an important plot device in the story. Jonathan Frakes also didn't seem to be in very good health, anybody else notice that?
As I was watching the last Star Trek film, I was wondering, "why is this so boring" Then I noticed that most of the film takes place on the bridge, which is just a big room with a wide-screen TV in the middle and some swivel armchairs and formica covered desks... hell, it's just a badly furnished yuppie living room floating through space.
As May West would say
That's Mae West, you insensitive clod!
Enterrise cancelling overlords:
Where the hell have you been?
Bah.. the show pales in comparison to what they could have done. Another great ST opportunity shot down.
Its ok, it about time the captian solved the damn problem and jump to his next body.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Enterprise sucks more than the vacuum of space itself.
Enterprise is the new low. Decades from now, when a TV show sucks, people will say "well, it was better than Enterprise."
Enterprise sucks so bad that BLACK HOLES glow green with envy.
Wow, journalism is getting better all the time... an anonymous person writes a note to cinescape telling them he's heard the people on the set are worried about getting cancled... wow - that's some cool research right there!
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
It's not funny to spread rumors like this! You almost had me too. For a sec...I thought my life was over ;)
It doesn't surprise me that Enterprise may get scrapped. It is yet another in a long line of tiresome Trek series. The franchise has been milked to death, and ought to be laid to rest for good. It never ceases to amaze me what passes for stories in everything that follwed after TNG. The follow on series were shallow, with two dimensional characters, thin plots, and little to excite the imagination. At last: RIP Star Trek?
You are so correct! I actually started to vomit (only kept it down through an act of superhuman will) when Wheaton kissed Judd. God that was horrible!!
Chosen Realm reeked of political grandstanding (thinly veiled War on Terrorism propaganda) and bordered on outright prejudice, by creating a straw-man religious zealot who spouted totally inane drivel so that the rational, scientific Archer and his crew could shake their collective heads at these miguided fools.
Also, come on, Trek writers, you can't just delete an entire database with a couple of keystrokes. Especially not such a critical system. They've got to have backups, or something! Every Slashdot geek knows that!
- Murphy's Corollary: - It is impossible to make things foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
8. The writers can't handle story arcs--they fail to resolve one story arc before another one starts (e.g., Xindi and Temporal Cold War)
7. Most episode premises suck (like we care about a lonely telepathic alien when the survival of Earth is at stake)
6. Changing the mix of Enterprise characters didn't add an interesting new element to the show (e.g., adding the military)
5. Breaking continuity with existing Trek timeline was a bad idea because it makes Enterprise feel unbelievable
4. Many plot elements are unbelievable (e.g., a religious group could take over the ship without security firing a shot)
3. No meaningful character development other than Archer becomes willing to torture bad guys to save Earth
2. The franchise is simply wearing thin due to writers' inability to pull it together with intriguing characters, captivating episode premises, and story arc continuity
1. The writers aren't up to the task of producing a top-flight sci-fi show from a franchise with a long history
"I thought I could organize freedom. How Scandinavian of me."
I have the ST:TMP director's cut on DVD. It's like a whole new movie to me, because I was never able to sit through the original, but I've seen this version several times. It is better than Nemesis, which I must admit was a big disappointment, outside of the starship ramming scene.
berman blew the franchise
Huge empire falls apart, very slowly. Sounds like a great book (like Asimov's Foundation)...but sounds like horrible TV. It would rapidly morph from "let's watch things come unglued" (which is sorta boring) into "let's watch the new regime take over"...and suddenly you've got Planet Of The Apes! Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek.
The Star Trek Enterprise set is awash with rumour that it will not be renewed for a 4th season.
Let's see how the captian gets out of this one!
- "They misunderestimated me."
Also, come on, Trek writers, you can't just delete an entire database with a couple of keystrokes. Especially not such a critical system. They've got to have backups, or something! Every Slashdot geek knows that!
It was an Excel "database." Perform a few sorts, save, and you have nothing but a file full of trash! Presto!
Fortunately there were enough re-runs for me to catch every episode at some point or another. And when DS9 and Voyager came out, I watched those religiously too, and all TOS episodes I could see. And for a glorious time ST was the backdrop of my dreams and substance of my creativity as I started reading loads of ST books, watching the original movies, etc. It was good.
But as DS9 and Voyager progressed towards their inevitable ends and the last few TNG movies came out (Insurrection, Nemesis) I began to feel this growing feeling that it was... too much. Like the horse was starting to wobble on shaky legs and the riders showed no signs of slowing down. And when Enterprise came out, I rejoiced, and watched the first number of episodes with eager anticipation. But then, I started to feel like I was no longer watching ST because it was fun, but because I felt like I had too. It just wasn't the same anymore. That special dynamic of TNG that originally captured me was lost, and nobody could find it.
So I stopped watching Enterprise, stopped reading the books, and have for the last couple of years merely contented myself with TNG DVDs and assorted books about the show itself, like The Continuing Mission and the above-mentioned Biography of Gene Roddenberry. And so I agree that the series deserves to die, it needs to die. And perhaps one day, years in the future, like a phoenix from the ashes it will rise again to its former glory...
I or one, would love to have a show with a good story AND skin and special effects. :)
"He who laughs last, didn't get the joke."-Cap
At least in Germany!
When they decided to build their network with Voyager, snatching it from syndication in the middle of the season. And they screwed up more when they decided to try to use Enterprise to prop-up it's pseudo network. Plus their desire to 'expand' the audience by appealing to elements that turned off a lot of Star Trek fans. I mean, who ever heard fo a Vulcan with collogen enhanced lips and silicone breast implants anyway?
-------- In Soviet Russia, "Soviet Russia" sigs hate Slashdot.
It seems that the same core group of people (Rick Berman and Brannon Braga?) have had their mitts all over the franchise for the last several series/movies, and they've all been pretty bland and formulaic. Maybe if they brought in some new blood they'd get some new and original ideas.
Voyager had a few episodes that were among the best in the franchise.
I watched that entire shit-stinker that was Voyager. What episodes would those be?
I mean, "Eye of the Needle" was okay, but it wasn't better than anything before it. Lon Suder was probably the coolest character they ever had, but he only appeared in a few episodes. There's very little there, and certainly nothing that I'd call "best ever."
Voyager did have some of the WORST Trek ever made. Great for parties. Check out "Fair Haven", its sequel, and of course, the immortal "Threshold."
But why exactly IS Star Trek on UPN anyways?
UPN is a little jerkwater network that isn't even delivered reliably over DSS! (18" Satellite Dish)
I mean really, is this the best channel to deliver a premium SciFi related show with a huge fan base on???
Would someone answer this one? Please?
Chakotay, the angry warrior, turned into a wise and cautious adviser to his Captain, who easily would have been his wife if circumstances allowed.
I believe you meant to say that he would have been her wife, if she hadn't completely rejected him (even when they were quarantined on a planet alone together with no hope of return) and then decided that she needed a holographic boyfriend.
BTW, late season fans took to calling Chakotay "The Wooden Indian." Beltran tried to quit the show but they wouldn't let him go. He could have just not shown up for work, so in the end Beltran is just a big bullshitter too. That's why I have respect for a trooper like Tim Russ, and none at all for Beltran.
When I look at them now I see how blatantly preachy they were.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
bonehead move by the scifi channel to can it. yeah they may have had expensive episodes but I don't care, I watched their channel to see Farscape. now they added a half dozen shows I don't watch. get it, scifi channel? my hopes for Enterprise involved the return miniskirts and the captain being clever in order to beat the big bad ships out there. but noooooo. and to top it off the theme really really sucks. berman has ruined star trek.
The thing that has really disturbed me in the last few Star Trek series, and all movies that had Piccard, is the near complete disreguard for continuity. To me, this has been the death nell of the series.
For some reason, the powers that be can't leave well enough alone. We have a cool, new alien in the Borg. They are machine, ruthless, and insanely efficent. They overcome all with faceless precision. In short, Alien in the true meaning of the word. I still remember getting goose bumps during those first few episodes. Now we fast forward to the movies, where we get a Borg queen who has desires and emotions. Less mechanical. More human and boring.
Each series has done more to chip away at any established good ideas. It has gotten so bad in the movies, they can't even follow consistency in itself and are increasingly trite. (I have a new race of Romulans who can't stand light. They are attacking my ship, and I can't think to turn on the high beams?)
Enterprise is interesting in scope and principal. As stated in another post, a tale of the history of starfleet. This has the potential to be cool, but with one caviot. The writers can't be lazy. We KNOW what the future is. You have to play within the bounds. This means no Ferengi, since they are clearly not met until next gen. This means NO inventing Alien races for wars that were never mentioned. (We know Fed fought the Romulans, don't you think other wars would get a mention?) This is the core of the whole Star Trek problem. The writers are lazy and don't respect the work of others. For some reason, 450,000,000 star trek fans can remember past episodes and understand the flow of events, why can't they? The bottom line is that this will kill Enterprise, which really did have potential. And, they killed the movies. In our heart of hearts, we all know this is a sad thing. Shame on them.
"He who laughs last, didn't get the joke."-Cap
I had an idea for a great Trek-based show. I wanted to call it _Star Trek: First Contact_ but then they used that title for a movie.
Here's the idea: we know that a civilisation can join the Federation after it invents warp drive. Before inventing warp drive, it must be left alone (Prime Directive). But we also know that at least some of the time, the Federation might send agents undercover to a civilisation that is just on the verge of discovering warp drive, to give it a nudge or two. (Remember the episode where Riker was undercover doing this?)
So, the show would be story-arc based. The First Contact Team would go, stash the ship somewhere hard to detect (far side of a moon, say) and then start doing undercover stuff. They can't rely on magic technology to solve all their problems, because they have to stay undercover. (They can't even rely on the Universal Translator; they need to blend in and they must learn the local language without an accent!) It could take many episodes to wrap up one new planet and see it admitted to the Federation.
And sure, hire known good SF authors to write storylines.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
Any show, no matter how good, will start to decline eventually as the writers run out of new things to do with that universe. Especially television writers, who are generally talentless hacks. After the first episode of Star Trek: Lost in Space, I had no interest in any more Star Trek.
It's long past time to move on and do something new and different.
Enterprise suffers from many things. First, the total reliance on tits and ass, rather than story and morals. Enterprise does not contain a crew of actors, but instead, a crew of jack off material. The girls are all pretty and easily sold like whores to the stereotypical geek audience that paramount thinks watches Trek. In other words, Paramount thinks its audience is stupid when infact the Star Trek TNG audience is high intelligent and very morally driven. TNG (The next generation) had its sexy moments, but it seemed always in context to the idea that one should enjoy life in a relaxing manner while living in a highly complex world that often can drive a man mad. Riker taking weekend vacations to Risa... to enjoy mingling with Risian women is a great example of this. Further more, Picard who has the responsibility of the ship, and the welfare of its crew... never took time to vacation... was always serious and dueing his duty. Picard while a highly moral character, is a flawwed human like all of us. Riker even suggests to Picard to take a vacation on Risa... and Picard reluctantly does. TNG is a great show, that had a cast which felt like a family. Each had their duty, but outside of the job, they were friends on board the enterprise. Poker nights on fridays, Adventures in the holadeck... etc. They cared for each other.. But the evolution or character arc is very apparent for each. They're relationship grew, and THAT was the importantance of TNG. Picard started off as a man who disliked children, who ironically is in charge of a ship full of children. One of which is the child of an old friend, Beverly Crusher... Picard's relationship with children changes... He started out uncomfortable around them, anoyed by them, but by the end of the series he has had become great friends with wesley crusher, even sharing memories with him about his old days at the academy.... So Picard opens up And infact the entire show is about that. As we see in the final episode where Q says, "For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you had never considered. That is the exploration that awaits you... not mapping stars and studying nebula... but charting the unknown possibilities of existence." As we see in the last episode, where Picard FINALLY joines the friday night poker games that the rest of the senor crew partcipated in. Picard says "I should have done this a long time ago" Diana Troi says "you were always welcome" Picards last line of the series was... "Five card stud, nothing wild. And the sky's the limit. " TNG had heart. It had relationships, it had a morale tale of justice and right, in a yin and yang way where the GREY is often the truth. Picard has broken how many star fleet regulations? :) A good running joke throughout the series... Hes a man of regulations who lives by them, and also breaks them when needed because RULES and LAW do not take into account the fluid nature of life or the unique situations of all.
TNG was SO MUCH MORE than Enterprise, Voyager, or DS9... Even far more than the original series.
TNG was the Trek that Roddenbury wanted to make. And i'm so greatfull for it.
Think about the dynamics of the cast, the interrelationships, the adventures, the morals and the great one liners which ring truth.
The witty moments, the quite moments in engineering, or in Picards ready room... Where you see the relationships forming tigther and tigher. They are so well written, so well acted... So easily beleivable.
Enterprise is a flop because it LACKS ALL OF THIS. IT lacks the originality of a DATA, or the relationship between Riker, Data, Picard, Diana, Beverly, Jordi, Worf, Obrien, a Q, ensign Roe, Wesley Crusher, etc.
Those characters had POINTS. They covered the dynamic of relationships from all angles, and they had their roles... Each as important as the next.
TNG had heart and pride... relationships, and it GAVE back to the audience by always being a warm place, full of beleivable stories, relationships, morals, and perhaps its final point, to explore the unknown
Everyone (ok, trekkies) are forgiving of a bad start with lumps. However, the other shows gelled as the went on and got better. See the difference?
"He who laughs last, didn't get the joke."-Cap
I know about the DS9 episode, which was funny, but damaging in that regard. I believe most of us were mature enough to be able to just say, in 1960's they could not easily have special effects like the current Kilingons. Now they can. Technology improves special effects with time, but that does not need to change the story.
"He who laughs last, didn't get the joke."-Cap
Supposedly they are thinking about returning to the series years afterwards.
I believe Paul 'Avon' Darrow got the rights and is bring it back. Since he was the only one alive at the end of the series hopefully he'll be back too!
http://www.blakes7.com/
"Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
Is this the BSA? Or is this the RIAA? Is this the MPAA? I thought it was the USA! Or just another country....
Would that be a slant reference to lyrics in Existential Blues by Tom 'T-Bone' Stankus?
[...]
Some girl with psychic power, she said, "T-Bone, what's your sign?"
I blink and answer, "Neon!" I thought I'd blow her mind.
She's reading Moby Dick by some fruitcake named Herman,
She's chomping on a knockwurst, was the duchess really German?
You ask so many questions, what answers should I choose?
Is this really Butte, Montana, or just existential blues?
Really Butte, Montana?
Is this Plato's heebie-jeebies?
Is this schizoid paranoia?
(Star Trek-like sound effects)
Success and money killed the Trek franchise.
Like so many businesses, once they become successful they grow and soon incorporate. Eventually they gain a board of directors to provide expert guidance to ensure further prosperity and growth. These managers come and go but eventually enough selfish individuals slip through to turn the board into a parasitic entity.
Most businesses stumble along this way for decades but the entertainment industry has a much shorter half-life in that pop culture shifts this way and that almost unpredictably.
In Treks case, we saw the standard progression in which good writing and cheesy effects targeting a certain smallish audience was slowly overwhelmed by statistics targeting the largest possible audience to gain the biggest advertising revenue.
In other words, over time the corporate's insisted on fine-tuning costs to maximize income. With most entertainment this means more flash (flesh?) and less substance. Using this formula, Trek became big bosoms, lots of computer graphics and recycled old script ideas i.e. pabulum.
I like the concept of Enterprise and enjoy much of the cast but the writing just doesn't get me and could be so much better if the leadership dumps TV formula and marketing input and tries writing something with a bit more substance.
Example: Stop having god, super beings, higher tech, time travelers etc. involve and then save the crew from outlandish incidents. Write more stories on the crew getting themselves into and out of trouble. And quit making humans the good guys so often. A lot of us are evil you know!
Viewing preference
1. TOS
2. DS9
3. Enterprise/TNG
4. Voyager
27b-6
When the WB moved its EXCELLENT Smallville :^)
show to Wednesday night, at the same time
UPN has been running Enterprise, it killed
it. Enterprise was pretty awful anyway.
Nice concept, but it just didn't "do it",
for me anyway. Given the choice, I chose
Smallville. No regrets. I've always like
the ST shows, but in this case, its the
second best show on Wednesday at 8PM.
It's at least a season-long arc.
DL
Harry Kim could have been left out of the series altogether and I don't think it would take away from Voyager. He is the epitomy of forgettable character. The actor who played him was very bland, or it could have been the writers...not sure which.
Second, The opening credit sequence is pretty cool, but that's not what the parent said. The THEME SONG sucks. It is so Gay that I have to turn it off when it comes on. Give me some orchestral instrumentation for a Star Trek Theme song and you've sold me.
I only mod up parents of "mod parent up" posts...
So it doesn't look like I'm posting to myself.
Yep, it might take a whole year to get to Alpha Centauri. But that's why you hire GOOD writers and give them the mythos background.
The GOOD writers will be able to write the story given the contraints of the mythos. Maybe they have warp 3 as a top speed? Maybe 3.5?
In TOS, they used to cruise everywhere at warp 5 or so. So it wouldn't be unreasonable to give the first exploration ship a top speed of 3 or so.
By the time the first MANNED mission is launched, most of the nearby suns should have had UN-MANNED probes sent to them at warp 1.
But, again, that is why you hire GOOD writers to do the story.
Stepping back for a moment from which Star Trek was the best/worst, I think all the series have been weak in many regards, but with the original, DS9 and TNG especially, they had interesting episodes. Whole seasons of suckiness were often balanced out by a few episodes that were excellent.
I've always been surprised that someone over at Paramount hasn't realized this and pitched the idea to have a sort of "Star Trek: Anthologies" series. Take the entire expanse (both in space and time ) of the Star Trek Universe, create one to three episodes (or maybe more across different seasons) around a decent storyline and run with it. Different casts, different ships/planets/sets, but all exploring this universe Gene created.
The "idea" of Star Trek has only stuck around so long because the format was so successful at creating stories and characters we care about. No one said they had to stick around forever! Far better to keep pushing the boundaries instead of creating yet another ship and crew that are interesting only some of the time. After all, it all started with a show that only lasted three seasons.
Look at Farscape, a show that often played with (and sometimes broke) the usual model of TV SciFi storytelling. It may not have been a huge ratings blockbuster, but it was definitely one of the best shows on in recent history.
The minute I first heard the new intro song, I knew the show was doomed!
Enterprise is awful. I stopped watching it.
TNG is by far the best, and let me just say that TNG was the best show ever on TV in my opinion.
..because there was never any "danger" of it being good!
-psy
I can't stand watching it because I have to sit through the incredibly awful theme music. What idiot chose that piece of crap? And, it made an immediate impression that the show would likely have other similarly bad decisions made about it...
And the idea that T'Pau and Tucker make a good romantic match seemed pretty ridiculous as well. T'Pau seemed a promise that they never delivered on, I immediately recognized the name from the original series (the Amok Time episode), and figured there'd be some additional tie-ins. If there were, they were to subtle for me.
Frankly, the ship should have looked cruder and have more problems. It pretty much works as well and is as comfortable as any of the later ships, when it's supposed to be Earth's first warp vehicle on its first voyage. There's not much to remind you that it is supposed to predate the other series.
"BSD is dead"="troll"
s/BSD/Enterprise/ = "Funny"
Interesting...
The first show was on for what, 3 years before it was cancelled? The last four series have been on continually for the last 16 years! Maybe viewers are just burnt out. The producers should take a break for a while. They can explore a few ideas through books and video games to assess interest in new themes and come back with something fresh in a decade or so.
They had some of the best borg episodes
The correct exchange (according to The Simpsons) is:
Hey you, let's fight!
Them's fightin words!
You're using her as bait, Master!
A much better space series....
Want to see every step I took to start my company? http://www.rowdylabs.com/blogs/pitchtothegods
X-Men 2 came out a week before Matrix Reloaded and did just fine. If anything, people get excited to go to the theater when a highly-anticipated film is coming up.
Nemesis didn't grab that excitement, for whatever reasons (I haven't seen it).
don't hate the player.
Wow. It's amazing how much of an asshole you are.
It is amazing how when faced with the truth, only insults can fly... that ideas alone can incite such rage.
And you wonder why the internet hasn't brought world peace? Millions of people simply engaging in mindless ad homimum attacks... "I don't like what you have to say, so Fuck You! You're a fucking cunt!"
And you wonder why progress is not made? We are to trust the future of the human race to crass individuals like yourself? Who cannot debate, merely insult?
It is people like you who are the best evidence as to why democracy can only lead to anarchy and endless conflict.
I don't read or respond to AC posts
Other than being a fine piece of ass to look at (and I even then I preferred the coltish Gates McFadden), this was one useless character. I could have done without Picard's empath.
Now that's a good idea. In fact I suspect we'll start seeing LOTR (that's Lord of the Rings for you trekkie acronym purists) spinoff serieses. The overarching theme could be the search for the Entwives. I've heard rumours that Tom Bombadil's cartoon hour is in negotiations with the History Channel. See, they're going to provide animated documentaries of the first and second age. Imagine the professorial narrative explaining the connections (and differences) between Ringwraiths and Barrow Wights (as well as a side-discussion about whether or not Dwarves can be corrupted by rings), then look for the Discovery dinosaur crew to team up with Weta for a destruction of Numenor, or breaking of Thangorodrim. I can hardly wait!
After being ripped-off too many times by piss-poor versions of a good story, I find myself okay with this turn of events.
Let's face it, even the actors themselves are tired of this story line (as evidenced by the HORRIBLE acting in Nemesis by established professionals).
And given the choice between Enterprise and Quantum Leap, I'd choose Quantum Leap -IF- given no other choice and the PlayStation is broken.
If they had stuck to the story line were established by TNG, TOS and DS9 this show would have been great according to TNG (the first contact with the klingons started the federation klingon civil war) that could have been a series long story line. the federation would be formed out of necessity to survive against a hostle force (klingon) which would lead to stories where they shared technology etc to get allies (which seems like a good idea) but ultimately bite them in the ass. This story arc would result in the formation of the prime directive. And the federation charter. Once that was done (say by season 3) you could have a story line about the creation of section 31 (from DS9 story lines) to get results when the prime directive gets in the way. which could lead to dozens of section 31 vs enterprise stories where morally archer was right but section 31 was necessary The problem with enterprise is that they choose to F_ck the Star Trek Bible and explain it all away with the time traveller story line.
Crap oh crap oh crap oh crap. crap on a crap cracker!
"It's because they're stupid, that's why. That's why everybody does everything." -Homer Simpson
I don't quite get what people are all bitching about, in regard to enterprise. I mean, yes for the first couple seasons it was pretty lame, but that's always been a standard for Star Trek series'. TNG, seasons one and two blew donkey balls. DS9, while personally my favorite, also had some fairly shitty episodes in its first two seasons. As far as voyager is concerned, even that series was decent up until about season five or so. If any of you dittoheads would just watch the latter part of season two, and up to the latest episodes, you might notice that it doesn't quite suck anymore. In fact, I'd rate it higher than Voyager, even when I put myself back to a time when I actually liked it.
I agree that a captain that's not a gigantic linebacker, or one that doesn't have an english accent, may not be as impressive at first as the former. But archer has really developed a much-needed ruthlessness, and overall has gotten more comfortable in his role, which really helps flesh out the character, and I've even noticed a much smaller emphasis on showing off T'pol's tits for rating's sake.
So, conclusion: Enterprise is doing what every star trek series EVER has done, it's gone from being incredibly shitty the first two seasons, to actually being decent and even GOOD. Now if you mindless assholes would just give the show half a chance, maybe you'd realize how wrong you were. Then again, this is slashdot...
The reason why both Voyager and Enterprise suck compared to ST:TOS and ST:TNG is that Berman, et. al., hired writers who cut their teeth writing for frigging soap operas.
Back in the days of ST:TOS, they had scripts written by real, established SciFi writers. (Well, OK, David Gerrold got established after he wrote "The Trouble with Tribbles," but Harlan Ellison was well established by the time he churned out "City on the Edge of Forever." Pity that Gene Roddenberry felt the need to rewrite the script.)
This is why in recent Star Trek movies and TV shows, the emphasis has been on melodrama and romantic intrigue and not on science fiction. I mean, seriously, can anyone forget the soft-core Vulcan porn shots in the first season of Enterprise? A female Vulcan bridge officer was included in Enterprise for the same reason Jeri Ryan was cast as Babe of Borg in Voyager -- to appeal to a certain adolescent male demographic. In other words, spank material for the fan boys. The cynicism that drives these decisions is enough to nauseate me.
If Paramount is serious about salvaging the Star Trek franchise, they need to get serious about who they hire to write the damned scripts. Either that, or send these soap opera writers to a boot camp. But since you can't polish a turd, I'd just suggest hiring some competent science fiction writers.
If you check the records, I think you'll find that "Maid in Manhatten" actually beat it the first weekend. We're talking the same actress who did Gigli.... out-grossed Nemesis. It would have flopped no matter what came before, after, or during its release.
Oh you mean the show with TWO porn stars? Yeah, do YOU have any n00d g1f5 0f lvl4r14 53r715? Quite the statement. Everyone wears pajamas except for the buxom brunettes. It almost like what I imagine might happen if Hugh Hefner conquered the world.
At least in the orginal series, a bright white canadian macking on a nubian princess was actually a statement.
It seems I was horribly mistaken. One of those porn stars was killed by a bottle of quaker state and NOT a burlap sack. Who knew geeks would be porno experts, who could have seen that coming.
Everything Rick Berman has touched about Star Trek has sucked. The problem is that every single episode ends up being about why inaction is ethically better than action. And that really starts to get BORING fast. "Hey, I have a cool idea for a show - let's make all sorts of plot threads in which interesting things *could* happen, and then pull a "ha-ha" on the audience and make them *not* happen. Won't that be cool? Won't they like that?
No. No, they won't.
If you want to save Star Trek, try actually having something *happen* for once. Something that lasts longer than one episode. And to do that, you need to ditch Rick Bermans' moral lessons and replace them with ones that actually cause things to occur. (The only part of the newer star trek serieses (not counting the old 60's show here) that was good was the part near the end of the run for DS9 where they tried having a continuing plotline about the station's trials and tribulations while under occupation. That bit worked very well while it lasted.)
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Interesting. Yeah, I've only seen it mentioned.
I picked Buck Roger's because well, watching the two openings back to back would really explain it all. But problems are solved more or less the same way (with less bad karate in the case of Farscape). Really, the limitations they put on the story are what make it sweet as opposed to gay.
So. You only care about creative works when they aren't preachy?
Or because it influenced your tastes and raised the works bar high enough that you matured to and/or demanded better works? So the "old stuff" ain't good enough?
While this is all subject to personal opinion and taste (or lack thereof), I too find watching STNG episodes today rather difficult--it's premise is too plain, too easy.
But at the time, hell, I thought they were great. See, the reality is, at the time and for that day and age, STNG was a great series. Now, with better works out there, STNG is pretty, well, boring, but it pushed the barriers well enough that I sought better material.
Hell, if you look at the series Dallas now, I laugh. It's almost sad. At the time though, it was fairly decent drama series (and popular).
I find my elementary and high school teachers' opinions boring and passe now. But they had incredible influence on me to see the world as I do today. I sure wouldn't want to go back to that time, but (and yes, this is weird), I still refer to my high school physics book and notes from time to time. Likewise, I no longer consistently watch STNG, but it's odd that I still find myself watching at least part of an episode once or twice a week, a little struck by some, smirking at others, finding some of it pathetic, and some with a different level of insight.
Personally I think the whole premise was a great idea that is poorly executed. The whole Enterprise series revolves around one premise: the Romulan Wars. Seasons one and two introduce us to the universe of the 2150s, seasons three and four deal with Xindi and the Expanse (two to one the spheres get destroyed and the whole thing opens up to exploration), and seasons five and six (perhaps seven) were set to resolve to Romulan Wars. If they cancel the series now it will not make much sense, instead they should combine all the rest of the seasons being planned into a very long and intense war series. Wrap it up with the conferenc that forms the Federation or T'Pol craddling Sarek. Maybe for a funny twist make Sarek the son of Trip after a Pon Farr fling. Trip and T'Pol part on bad terms and Trip goes on to have a daughter who marries a man named McCoy.
Future of the series: Earth and Xindi are being manipulated by a future Romulan group trying to unite the quadrant under Romulus. Earth will get hit hard before Enterprise returns, and its people made so mad that the result looks like World War II gone galactic. Vulcan and the Andromedans should also get hit hard and everyone in the quadrant given the same choice: unite or die. This is when we should start to see lots of the new technologies recognizable to Star Trek TOS: everyone playing with everyone else's (mosly Vulcan) technology and coming up with new derivatives. "Phase pistols" go through all kinds of changes throught a season and become prototype phasers, etc.
Rant: Neither the whole "Temporal Cold War" bit nor the Xindi deserve to be in there and the ship should be *much* more primitive. Klingon technology is also much too advanced, I think they ought to get reduced to just ahead of Earth tech. The warp 5 engine premise makes sense as do the flat panel screens, but they should be having to get supplies at every system they visit just to stay alive. Also the ship probably doesn't need more than 50 people on board. No "hull plating" should be onboard and shields should be discovered by total accident late in the series. Phase pistols should have been laser pistols and there should be much more nationalism among the crew, not this "all for one and one for all" mentality.
As long as there is a Second Amendment, there will always be a First Amendment.
I was a loyal trekkie for a long time, but there was a growing uneasiness towards the end of TNG - there were some really good stories, but they were growing fewer and further between. DS9 had a great premise and my favourite opening scene of any pilot I've ever seen, but the writers seemed to balk at it's mid-east politics premise ( Bajor = Lebanon ) and abandoned it. Technobabble ceased to be "music" and became noise.
There was a single week in which I suddenly realized wasn't a Trek fan any more. DS9 and B5 were playing "payoff" episodes against each other. The DS9 payoff was random and unearned - stuff blew up as if there was a quota, plot twists were thrown in without setup and people walked around like zombies and by the end everything was restored to the safety of where it had begun (give or take a few ominous worries). On B5, two major well-developed races went to the brink of war - one could feel the rush of inevitability, the weight of years of foreshadowing, the frantic desperation to find a way out, the brutality of errors ... and in the end, it didn't end well, the inevitable couldn't be averted and series made a right-hand turn.
What struck me is that B5 in its prime had a story to tell and time was a precious resource that needed to be used carefully to be able to tell it all. Star Trek had nothing left to say and story was just sand to fill the void.
*gasp*
nooooo...oooooooo!
*caugh caugh* *gasp*
nooooo...oooooooo!!
*thud*
Still #1 -- Lonely Gay Geek
Oddly enough I think I'd probably watch a few episodes of this.
"What my brother die of?"
"Pay me nothing: you murdered him,
1 credit: you accidentally killed him,
2 credits: an accident,
3 credits: he was stupid,
4 credits: his fault he died and he owes you compensation"
or maybe not...
Angus
Put Wil Wheaton on the next week (maybe let Kirk kill Wesley Crusher? ahh, the visuals), that's another additional 200,000 viewers above normal.
Dude.
I would totally kick his ass, using the patented "pull the toupee over his eyes" maneuver, perfected (but never used) by Kahn.
I mean whoop de fuck, how long has star war^H^H^Htrek, uh this space star stuff been re-inventing itself with bold new plotlines.
I mean for all we know at this rate of "viable stories" being churned out in the next series the first mate could be having a bloody Klingon lovechild[1]
For reference look up "The Bill", it's a UK tv show that was good for 10 or so years up until 3-4 seasons ago when it was re-written into a soapie, and i can barely stand the missus watching it, let alone ME.
yeah yeah, so i may be slightly off topic, SO WHAT?
Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when your gonna get food poisoning.
I can see them Run over the idea of Canceling the lastest and greatest of the Star Trek TV Genre.. But Something tells me it will result in something similar to what Happen when Coke came out with New Coke... It will inspire Grass Roots of "The Product" and we might actually see more of what Real Trekies Want...
Who needs WiFi when we can have Packet Over Sheep! http://datacomm.org/PoS-InternetDraft.txt
1/ Those evil intellectuals, the Vulcans. Not only do those pointy-eared freaks secretly keep red-blooded 'Mericans from doing what they want to, but they lie outright and spy on others.
2/ There was that whole "Don't take the law into your own hands, for justice you have to work within the system." line that many, myself included, choked on.
3/ If you didn't picked up on the subtle slights against lifestyles not approved by the Religious Right, then you might not notice brick walls when you run through them.
This is, to be fair, based on just the first few episodes. After choking on the (im-)moral lessons contained, I decided to abstain. Nice SFX, not to mention the gel shower scene, but sci-fi is generally for progressive people.
You mean Star Trek: The Politically Correct Generation? Please, that was TERRIBLE. Talk about the ultimate in leftie fantasy parading as SF.
"Captain, the evil capitalist Ferenghi want to blast us away, but the Klingons just want to nosh and make nice..." Says Data
"Lets all sit around the warp drive and sing Kumbaya in Klingon, shall we?" retorts Counselor Troi..
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves
To be honest, star trek has been going down hill for a long time.
Those damned soapy writers they employed have made it almost unbearable for any sci fi fans to watch. They have so little idea of continuity that I'm surprised they know when it's lunchtime (let alone write a decent plot). Remember when they wanted to write Zephram Cochraine as female so Picard could fall in love with "her"?
IMHO they should kick the current writers out on their arse and employ some writers that will give the concepts and history of the show some justice. Preferably doing what JMS did and using different sci fi writers for each show.
Btw, I purchased every episode of star trek (TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY) on tape, but wouldn't bother with the shelf space for enterprise. I don't even bother watching or taping it when it's on TV any more.
To know that you know what you know, and that you do not know what you do not know, that is true wisdom. --Scooby Doo
We all hear about the wars, i want a series that SHOWS them, star trek battles are so few and far between its a joke, i dont want to watch a sitcom in space, WHO CARES, give will n grace space outfits put them in a deep freezer call it B deck and there is no difference. The crew of Enterprise work well together, someone give them a good writer please, stick to the ST universe and FFS give us the battles we so badly want to see.
Thing is - I saw the intro to Firefly and went "nahh"... western in space is really just a western.
But a friend of mine had taped all of the episodes, and then we sat and watched them all in the correct order. I was much more impressed than my initial exposure led me to believe I would be.
I agree with my sibling poster - I think Firefly would have done better if they'd given it a chance.
On the other hand, they could have downplayed the "western" style a bit without losing anything, make it more subtle etc, and I think it would have seemed more mature.
My 1.35 cents worth (adjusted for inflation and exchange rates)
Alright, I admit the original show was good. Screw that, the original series was freakin' groundbreaking, and the earlier episodes even attempted to not toss the laws of physics out the window (for the first couple of seasons or so, there was no sound in space). Of course, due to its enormous popularity, more was inevitable. But wait! As Star Trek broke new ground in Sci-Fi, the Sci-Fi that followed it continued to explore virgin territory. The fact that Science Fiction could have complex, three dimensional characters slowly became accepted by the mainstream. The aliens got less human, and more . . . well, alien. In much Sci-Fi, the laws of physics were far more carefully observed. While Star Trek improved on an old formula, later Science Fiction continued to improve, and left the original series behind. And yet, there was more Star Trek to come. First the movies. Then The Next Generation. Then movies of that. Then Deep Space Nine. Then Voyage. Etc., etc. (Yes, I know I'm probably getting my chronology screwed up here. So sue me.) Where other Science Fiction had continued to improve on the old formula, the "new" Star Trek stuck mostly to what was becoming an rapidly obsolete way of looking at the universe. Essentially, the new Star Trek came to represent all the faults of the old, with none of the originality that redeemed the old. The new shows had flat characters, absurd "science" and technobabble, tired, recycled plots, and aliens that not only looked, but acted exactly like humans (I know some people believe that evolution of sentient life forms could take place only under very specific conditions, but come on people, isn't slapping pointy ears on a person and calling him alien taking this theory to its illogical extreme?). My point is that Star Trek should have died a natural death, long ago. Unfortunately, like so much other popular Science Fiction, it was dragged into the threshold where a graceful exit was impossible. Now, with Enterprise, it looks like Star Trek may die a slow and painful death. Sorry, Trekkies, but the dead horse is beaten. Beaten to the point where it is not even recognizable as a horse.
I honestly thought the first mission into deep-space would be tossed into a new galaxy -- a sort of Voyager on steroids.
I said, wow, not only are they going to be fresh out into deep space, but way out into some crazy, unknown worlds. The Vulcans, Klingons, and all the rest would be history. What a way to avoid the legacy, I thought.
Alas, I was in error. Instead, they churned-out the same old, same old.
The original Trek series tackled the greatest sci-fi concepts of the time. The Next Generation tried its best to emulate this idea and bring it into current times (the later episodes excepted).
Enterprise sucks. Hell, I even regret defending Bacula being cast as lead role, as he has been flat and lifeless.
Enterprise's death will not be the end of Trek on TV, I assure you. It will, however, clear the way for truely innovative efforts and captivating stories that deserve to be told.
Regards, Lex
I say they go out in a blaze of glory.. hire some half-decent writers and incoporate the other Star Treks in it. ie. Enterprise travels to the future, meets captain Janeway or some futuristic twist. Go out with a nice bang. Once you're done.... Scrap Enterprise, and write a decent Star Trek. It has been done before, I'm sure someone can write one. The current Start Treck has been a disappointment (to me anyways) from the beginning.
I think the Ferengi are no longer seen because they are very offensive to Jews. It is stereotypes like that that caused WW2. Think before you try to label a whole race of people as "valuing nothing over their self enrichment." Six million dead are nothing to laugh about. The sick characterization of Jews as the `ferengi' are NOT funny!
I agree with the comment in the article that we may not see any good Star Trek outside of the books. Thing is, the books have been doing it better than anything on screen ever since DS9 (the last good show IMO) ended.
As a matter of fact, the recently culminated DS9 literary relaunch was like a printed version of the TV show except better... fates of established characters played out, new and interesting characters introduced and given significant development without neglecting others, hanging plot threads from 1st season TNG and beyond brought back and redeveloped... and this is only one example of many being published right now.
Peter David's New Frontier flat-out rocks even if it streches credibility in some places, the Lost Era series has filled in long-standing continuity holes (including aforementioned Sulu-Excelsior, Enterprise-B, and Enterprise-C stories) spectacularly, and next month will see the beginning of a TNG miniseries that will hopefully explain the travesty that was Nemesis. I've watched a total of three episodes of Enterprise, two of which were hyped as the heralds of a new era for the show, and I was barely entertained by any of the three. I could pick out the archetypical Trek crew positions, but some of those were so woefully underdeveloped that they might as well have been cardboard standees. Judging from reviews I've read of other episodes, I can't expect any better fare from this show. Thankfully, the books allow me to remember the magic and good storytelling that assimilated (hur hur) me into Trek fandom.
Now, like every armchair producer, I have my ideas about where Trek should go from here. I would be thankful if Enterprise went away, for the very simple reason that it would reduce the likehood that somebody could confuse it with something I'm actually interested. New and good Trek is already being produced in the books, but this would clear the way for something decent onscreen, which I miss dearly. Unlike most everybody else, I don't think Trek should just disappear for a decade (I've got three movies and part of a TV series planned out in my head... yes I'm a shameless fanboy). They need something epic and awe-inspiring like LotR. I'm not saying rip off LotR (which is probably what Berman would do). LotR did not focus on producing something quick and flashy just to get butts in the seats. LotR was one of the biggest movie productions ever, and it got massive numbers of butts in the seats (including mine (do I even need to mention this on slashdot?)) because it had a story to tell and didn't care how long it took or how much money it spent to do it.
LotR and Trek are similar because they both have an established fanbase and mythos. In the end, I think whoever ends up producing Trek (Christ, get Johnathan Frakes, he's passionate about it) should and should want to focus on this. Put out something that will tell a compelling story with compelling characters and hey, you've got a good product.
The last two seasons of TNG were incredible, though.
Other than that I agree with you. Voyager was awful, DS9 was pretty good, but Enterprise is just about the best one yet.
+++ATH0
I doubt it [TNG] will ever be topped or even equaled.
*cough* Babylon 5 *cough*
Not only did they have better character development---the characters were flawed, headstrong, occasionally doing the stupid or wrong thing---but they had continuity. Set aside the vagaries of a weekly television show, and watch it on the DVD set. Even standing alone, episodes like "Z'Ha'Dum", "The Illusion of Truth", "Severed Dreams" and "Intersections in Real Time" are a cut above the best that TNG put forth.
Specifially, for character development, look at where Garibaldi goes over the five seasons, constantly circling the drain, sometimes pulling himself up by his bootstraps, sometimes messing up everything and everyone he cared about.
It's not that TNG was bad. It's just that Babylon 5 raised the bar to such a degree.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Mebbe they'll bring back Virgil and TB-2 :)
Go Virge!
In Australia we have only seen about 3 episodes of season 2 and already it has been shifted around from one timeslot to the next in a futile effort to catch viewers late at night who are not likely to watch the sport offered by rival networks. This is because the writers of enterprise cannot and even if the can, will not use continuity to increase suspense from one episode to the next, personally I do not make the effort anymore to find out when it's even on tv. I will wait for the boxset to be released even if it's just to complete a set that i will only watch occasionally as a curiousity. So here's how to fix enterprise IMHO. Have actions cause consequences, continue some part of one episode through a season if not 2, relate history episodeS of DS9, TNG and TOS, even the time paradox episodes of voyager into it. and find a new crew member from somewhere ie a "7 of 9 / or a daughter of dukat / to bring some new life into upcoming seasons.
I really wish that UPN had stuck with the original idea about starfleet academy just set just before Sisko's academy day's and used Curzon as the spin off character, It would have been cool to have a Dax again
I dunno; Babylon 5 had a tiny fraction of Star Trek's budget, and managed to put in (a) more effects shots, (b) more realistic effects shots (look, you shouldn't be able to see a beam weapon shooting out like a glowing spear, and the ships shouldn't just sit still while shooting at each other) and (c) much better makeup (compare the scads of Drazi, Minbari and Narn in every B5 ep with... what, one Klingon in TNG?).
I mean, if they had had TNG's budget, I'm sure it would have looked better. As it was, the whole thing was done on a shoestring. And besides, geeks should appreciate that they pioneered the use of all-CG space shots and CG set extensions.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Makes me wish I was on Usenet when the show was actually running, seeing all the jms posts on the Lurker's Guide to B5.
I still can't believe he actually talked to the people on Usenet while writing all but one episode of seasons three, four and five. The man's some sort of cyborg, he's gotta be.
I'm still gonna write him a great big gushing thank-you once I finish watching the last season. I've been working my way through the whole bunch over the last year, and while I may want to curse jms for raising my standards so much, I'm pleased beyond words that something that good could actually get a spot for five years.
"There will never be another one..."
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Entertainment companies don't produce film/TV for quality ideas or execution anymore.
They never did. Looking back in the past lets us skim through decades of production, and the crap has mostly been filtered out. Ten years from now, the only shows from the nineties that will be remembered as good SF storytelling are probably B5, some of the early seasons of X-Files, some of TNG and DS9, and not much else. We'll have forgotten the crap, and will be busy moaning how the Holovid companies don't produce three-vee for quality ideas or execution anymore.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Do you think he could find room for Alyson Hannigan, too?
Forget it, dude. She's found fame and success with the 'American Pie' series, and so will never again return to the low-paying field of television.
Besides, would you really want to see her on a Star Trek series? Even if it were directed by Joss? I'd rather put her on some non-Trek project of his, or maybe whatever J. Michael Straczynski's working on. But it's moot; she's going to make a series of eminently forgettable teen slasher movies, sex comedies and possibly a few poorly-done action flicks while she can still pass for a teenager. (She turns thirty in March.)
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
It could have used one or two more seasons.
Forget it. There's a reason why TNG had seven seasons, why DS9 had seven seasons, why Voyager had seven seasons, hell, why Buffy the Vampire Slayer had seven seasons.
The seven-season mark is the sweet spot when it comes to syndication. See, when more than seven seasons are made, it costs the network. When fewer than seven are made, syndication will not bring in optimal profits. The Simpsons is some kind of mega-wacky voodoo case; I don't know. But seven seasons is what networks want.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Enteprise sucks really, really bad. I gave up after half a season. Jolene Blaylock may have some major dicksucking lips and a killer bod, but it's not enough to save the show. Charmed has some hotties too (Alyssa Milano for one) but the show is unwatchable. About the only show that is barely watchable enough is Alias with it's super-hottie Jennifer Garner.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
Actually an "evil" Starfleet could be the basis of a good series.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Paramount's plan for the Star Trek franchise:
I started watching Star Trek: Ent myself and thought it had a very promising beginning. But the show quickly lost my interest. One day I tuned in and saw an episode (I forget the name) where Archer was being put on trial by the Klingons-- and sent to the Rura Penthe mining prison. Yes, true, continuity between the series, but I didn't feel like there was really much originality to that ep and turned off the T.V. in disgust, vowing never to watch that show again lest I sour my memories of the TNG/DS9 series.
It was the same way with Nemesis except on a much grander scale: After all, this was a movie: it's supposed to be original! After the first half or so there is no difference from ST:II really:
- An epic battle with a long-standing enemy of the Federation (Khan, Shinzon)
- An enemy who is out to get the Captain personally.
- Weapons of mass destruction, their threat to Earth or the Federation in general and their use against the Enterprise.
- An isolated battle between two ships with no hope for re-enforcements (except for Donatra's warbirds in Nemesis).
- The villian's final decision to pursue the Captain even if it means his own death.
- The last-minute sacrifice of the "unfeeling" character to save the rest of the crew.
The list goes on and on. The verdict: ST:II remake. We should expect better from the Star Trek series than this! If this is what I am going to see in the future, then it is not worth my money or time.At our school, we don't earn a degree when we graduate—we earn pi/180 radians
To delve deeply into the Trek universe, the whole dual-timeline went as follows:
t o-conquer premise for 'Dark Mirror', which in turn sets up the setting for 'Spectre' & 'Preserver'.
The first hints of it were in the TOS episode 'Mirror, Mirror' where 'alternate' Kirk and Spock appear after a transporter mishap. Their Federation is a highly militaristic dictatorship resembling the ancient Roman Empire. This parallel universe was then explored more in 'Dark Mirror' and the alternate universe books 1&2 'Spectre' and 'Preserver' (by Shatner, continuing what may be a cycle of Kirk saves planet, dies, resurrected, saves galaxy, dies, resurrected, saves... you get the idea.) There was also a DS9 episode and in fact several more books concerning DS9 and the alternate universe, but I haven't read/seen those.
The reason for this was outlined in 'Preserver' as it followed from the events of ST:FC - SPOILERS of the book.
In First Contact, Cochrane was introduced to both the Borg and the Federation. In 'Preserver' it is revealed that the 'alternate' Federation expanded much more aggressively and devoted far more effort to military applications, thus meeting and defeating the Borg much earlier (explaining that continuity problem.) Of course, this expansion results in an Alexander-wept-because-there-were-no-more-worlds-
Long Trekkie story short, at the end of 'Preserver', chronologically as Cochrane prepares to meet the Vulcans in ST:FC, he flips a coin. Heads, he tells them about the Federation. Tails, the Borg. In the original series on, the setting is the universe where he told the Vulcans about their harmonious future among the stars. In the alternate universe, and possibly Enterprise, he tells them of the horrors of the Borg lying in wait for them.
Of course, if the writers of Enterprise were both well-versed in Trek lore enough to rationalize it this way, and enterprising enough to expand it to form the universe of the series, that begs the question...
WTF didn't they just use the original universe in the first place?
IMO, TOS was a cultural expression of our burgeoning awareness of and wonder at space, TNG was about the characters and the drama as well as the complications arising out of politics, technology, and ethics at the time, and DS9 gave a good picture of just how fscked up one planet can be, with religious leaders, former oppressors, foreign interests (Dominion et al) and a good-intentioned intercessor who must balance all the rest while helping said planet recover. All these can be interpreted convincingly as allegories for their respective times, possibly revealing a facet of their appeal. Voyager and Enterprise seem to try to cash in on the spaceships, aliens, organizations, and motifs - which the other series used appropriately as a backdrop to the real stories being told - simply to pull in Trekkies who'll supposedly watch anything with 'Federation' or 'tricorder'.
Anyway, 0.02$ and all.
-Sibarra
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjami
I really miss Star Trek: TNG and DS9 (ever since the shitty cable company here stopped carrying the only channel that would show DS9). Both shows were good, entertaining drama series. Compared to all the Reality Crap Shows and Eat-Everthing-Gross-'Til-I-Puke Fear Factor's, I'd watch any episode of TNG, DS9, or the original series any day.
I've been a Trek fan for well over a decade and I'm loving Ent just as much as I loved TNG, DS9, and Voy. Frankly, I'm getting really tired of all this Enterprise bashing, and the fact that there are over a dozen Ent-bashing posts modded up as +5 insightful shows just how bias the moderation system can be sometimes, doesn't it?
You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
http://web-worthy.com/saab/
The Singularity is closer than you think
Quant
Yes, you're, of course, right. Hell, the biggest comment the fans had after the first ep was, "get rid of that weirdo with the big hair!". jms, in the end, knew better.
Someone did a really decent analysis of the character development of Lt Corwin. That's a Tripod page with popups, but there's a better analysis out there, honest. The point is that even a minor character with so few lines can have really decent development over the years. That's the kind of continuity other shows don't even dream about.
--grendel drago
G'KAR: The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born, in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future, or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born... in pain.
--3x22, "Z'Ha'Dum"
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Something about this series had me interested right from episode 1
T'Pol in gel?
Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
I'm generally in agreement with you, but at least Voyager had an underlying premise that lent itself to the sort of writing soap writers might do. I quite enjoyed Voyager starting with about mid-Season Three.
That being said, the reason the original series endures in spite of occasionally poor acting and dated special effects are the scripts. The people Roddenberry hired were top of the line. They produced landmark stories that continue to be the benchmarks for all that followed, both on television and on film.
Republicans are idiots.
New series starts March 7th after God only knows how long, for thirteen weeks. Maybe that's it; palm the whole thing off to HBO, where you get top writers, actors, producers, etc.
Republicans are idiots.
when they showed the Borg on this pre-ST show, you knew it would go downhill from there.
that plus not enough on-screen nudity and not enough Klingons.
> --- All Of The Above --- >
You could even pull the line from the Rocky Horror Picture Show audience parTIciPATION bit when Frankie is in Brad's seperate (but equal) room:
"Hey, has anybody seen my Tribble? Oh, HERE IT IS!"
www.eFax.com are spammers
I agree with you, and the above poster. There IS some larger story arc, (alas, I didn't follow DS9, so I lack that comparison point), and the way time travel and the Vulcans are handled are VERY interesting. I would even go so far as to say that yes, ST:E has *more* larger-plot than the earlier ST series I've seen, although never as well as some other SF series have. It just started going downhill and degenerating into single-episode units without any larger structure. (And let's face it, there are only so many times you can pull off the "alien bug makes crew act bizzare" trick...)
"My strength is as the strength of ten men, for I am wired to the eyeballs on espresso."
Personally, I LIVE for space-fights. It is why I love Wrath of Khan and First Contact the most; lotsa action (IMHO).
:)
:)
Lasers, Phasers, Disrupters, Phase Cannons, pulse weapons, beam weapons, conventional & photon torps. etc.; it does not matter so long as I hear a weapon bring fired, followed by a satifying explosion.
To that end, I would love to see more action, and less "let's drag this plot out as long as we can" $hit... find a Xindi outpost someplace and pump 20 torpedos into it! Blast a ship into several floating chunks... and then go after those chunks!
Besides, with some Americans having a "let's nuke 'em all" attitude toward recent... Um... International Events involving the US, it might help us all to see some $hit get blown up!
I say have the crew go crazy, find a cache of WoMD somewhere and start blowing up everything in sight (or within the range of 100 or so light years). I would stay up to watch something like that...!
Peace!
-=- James.
I used to love the original because I watched it with my Dad. I loved the Next Generation only after it got good, which took about 3 years (remember how they shouted at each other all through the first episode?)... eventually, the stories got really good.
;) And we could have a nice Human-Vulcan war, instead.
DS9 also got better after a few years. Gal Ducat was great to watch. Voyager began poorly but got better, and the doctor was always fun. The only thing that really irritated me about Voyager was the 7-of-9 "bimbo in a catsuit" thing... it's great to have sexy women, but it's irritating when that's the main reason they are there.
An now Enterprise. It's dumb. It's aimed at 10 year olds. T'Pol is hot, but the steamy stuff is gratuitous. I mean, ACTUAL pr0n is available, so why have a weak version of that here? Why all the shower and massage stuff? Just watch adult movies for that... in Star Trek, I'd rather have good science fiction or human interest stories. And the occasional steamy sex scene is fine, as long as the character dresses normally during normal episodes, and doesn't wear a uniform that would encourage constant drueling among the rest of the crew.
The Hoshi character is better; she is sexy, but there's more to it than just that. And some of the other characters are a little more interesting. Except Mayweather, who seems to have been given a lobotomy... nobody is that wide-eyed, cheerful, respectful, and boring (beyond the age of 15 or so). But it's so often a tired, hackneyed storyline.
When they finish it off, they'd best do some asinine thing with the timeline, and erase it all. Otherwise I'd expect Kirk and Spock to have been sitting around, joking about the inept, cliche-mouthing bozos on the "original" Enterprise. Or talking about that time 7 million people got roasted on Earth by the Xindi. Or whatever...
If they'd made this way more thoughtful, way darker, and much more intelligent, I'd have liked it. Instead we get more gunfights and sex, like some idiot went "Oh, the original series had all that... let's just turn the volume on that way up and do it again."
I hope it gets cancelled or gets better fast. It's too lame for adults, and I think kids watch other shows anyway.
Time for "Q" to show up and mess with everything. Now THAT would be interesting. It would be fun if Q somehow interfered, and made it clear that the events we are watching will in fact NOT lead to Star Trek:The Original Series... because something he does (or gets Archer & crew to do) causes a "fork". That would be fun.
The show has a lot of potential but everyone of the directors, writers, producers are clueless as how to develop the show. Fixing it would be SO simple and draw in as many viewers as TNG. It is the same problem the networks had with the fall season...they had no clue as to the problem. They still don't.
If any network figures it out, and it is not hard to do, they will own the ratings. The problem is, these people have been in Hollywood too long.