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Could TNG Stunt Casting Save 'Enterprise'?
Tycoon Guy writes "It seems Star Trek: Enterprise isn't about to go down without a fight. TrekToday is reporting that Jonathan Frakes and Marina Sirtis will guest-star on the season finale of Star Trek: Enterprise, to reprise their Next Generation roles of William T. Riker and Deanna Troi. Hello stunt casting! The news has been confirmed on Sirtis' official fan site."
How about they just do it the old fashioned way and revive the series by reversing polarity and firing anion thrusters to create a temporary wormhole that can act as a gateway to the ratings.
No... That didn't work at all for Voyager...
Please, no. Just let it get cancelled and go the way of the dodo like it should!
Find out about the Lexus Rx400h Hybrid!
the show will still suck.
unless they stop travelling through time. and get the regular actors to learn how to act....
Just like me to actually get a first post.
Does anyone really care? I'm sorry but with Battlestar Galactica reinventing the science fiction genre in the same fashion the Sopranos did to the gangster genre - it's hard to watch anything Trek related. It's the visual equivalent of listening to Cyndi Lauper records from the '80s - you can't believe people ever liked the stuff when you look at it with some hindsight.
Plus, IMHO, most science fiction is really science-themed fantasy. I enjoy the Stargate shows most times (with all the light beings and whatnots) but I don't really count it is SciFiction. Trek was true SCIFI but after years and years of prostituting its original ideas for meagre ratings - there is nothing but a shell. I mean how many Borg related episodes did they drag out for sweeps? It's like gay marriage and abortion to republicans - whenever they wanted to get attention they would drag out the Borg! I'm sure the last Enterprise episode will feature a half-vulcan/half-borg Picard with large breasts.
-_-
Much as I wouldn't mind seeing Frakes and Sirtis in action again, it would only be because for nostalgia's sake. When your show becomes characterized by this kind of hysterical desperation, it's a pretty good sign you should just let it die.
TNG and DS9 were at the top of their repective games in their later seasons -- they just got better and better, IMHO. Neither shows needed this kind of nonsense to shore them up for another handful of weary episodes. If Enterprise doesn't have enough momentum to propel it after all this time, then it's just plain out of gas, and stunt casting is not going to save it.
Especially when I, as a not-so-fanatical Star Trek watcher, can probably tell you the plot of this episode right now. Picard and Troi, on board the Titan on a diplomatic mission to Head-Ridge VII, run into a subspace anomaly and are transported back in time, and must deal with the cultural and technological gaps while...zzz...
I'd advise letting Enterprise, and Trek, rest in peace for another few years while it still has some dignity, but unfortunately that moment is already long past (for me, the last of TNG's dignity departed with the introduction of Retarded Data in Nemesis). I guess now the best we can hope for is that these sorts of decisions don't bury the franchise altogether.
Marina Sirtis is still incredibly hot.
When TNG started, people were afraid it wouldn't suceed without having to bring back members of the original crew. And while it did eventually bring most of them back in some form or another (McCoy in the pilot, Spock in Season 4, Scotty in season 6, and Kirk in Generations), it spread it out so much that it was fairly innocuous. On the other hand, this is a blatant attempt to appeal to TNG's popularity to save what has been an otherwise horrible series.
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
Can't they just let it fade away instead of making everyone HATE it.
moo.
So... their strategy to save a show which suffers from incredibly poor casting, is to bring two of the previous generation's casting gaffes.
I can't think of two more expendible characters from TNG (After wesley crusher of course) than Riker and Troi.
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
I doubt it. The time-traveling alien Nazis was the worst part of the season. Everything else was at least watchable.
I thought season 4 was an improvement, and at least they didn't screw up the storyline with Brent Spiner.
Oh, and as for it being confirmed on Sirtis' official site...as far as I can tell any reference to such a confirmation was removed.
That is what I first read that title as. Too many days in the corporate datacenter...
is an official fan site?
Before any liberals are tempted to mod up one of my comments, a word of warning: I'm actually making fun of you.
Wow, am I the only one who likes Enterprise, and hates Battle Star in any incarnation? One hot andriod is no enough for me to get interested in Battle Star!
So Manny Coto's plan for saving Trek is to use Jump the Shark.com as a checklist?
Les Miserables Volume 1 now up with my reading of
I'm going to guess time travel... teh Time travel episodes always where the worst, great way to get people to watch. Although to prevent flameagethe time travel episode that brought back Tasha Yar and placed her in the past was a great way to bring the character back.
---In a time of Chimpanzees I was a Monkey.
I sense a deep feeling of forboding...
REM Old programmers don't die. They just GOSUB without RETURN.
Time for trekies to let Trek sleep for a while so it can make a worth while come back in ten years.
Drop Trek, and start watching Galactica -- it'd be a shame if such a well-written, well-acted, and well-produced show like Galactica doesn't do well.
Sam
... the last /. story. then I downloaded series 4 and it wasn't so bad. currently getting series 3.
how come they changed their position on calling it "Enterprise" and not Star Trek: Enterprise"?
I hope they keep it going. there's no reason not too. if you don't like it DON'T WATCH IT YOU 'TARD. your TV does have an off switch, or at least a change channel switch. failing that, just throw a blanket over it.
and don't talk about "ruining the reputation" and "devaluing previous Star Trek". that's crap. Star Trek is far too big for that. if the original motion picture didn't ruin the show, then Enterprise sure as hell won't.
BSD..er...Enterprise is dead.
"Enterprise showrunner Manny Coto recently revealed the series' season finale was being written by Rick Berman and Brannon Braga."
It's done, stick a fork in it.
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
Deanna will travel back in time to set an insidious series of events in place that will ripple through the very fabric of space-time...and make sure she doesn't marry that slut poindexter with a beard Riker! All she has to do is jetison some drive plasma, reverse polarity on the intake valve and say three times "He is an ass, what was I thinking?"
I vote for bringing back Brent Spiner...
I think they should bring back the X-Men again for good measure!
Da Blog
I saw a clip of her naked and then stopped watching the show. I wonder if all the star trek women posed nude before the shows started airing would there have been as large a fan base?
Yeah, I'll second that. I've been trying to make myself feel better by just saying, in my own mind, that Enterprise isn't Star Trek, but things like the potential of this story aren't helping any.
I wonder what Marina Sirtis' webserver was feeling after this article was posted? Anyway, I feel a bit icky having Slashdotted her server with, well, Slashdotters. The only thing ickier would be if it had been Natalie Portman's site. ;)
If all you have are silver bullets, everything looks like a werewolf.
Despite the fact that this is probably the last season being abandoned on a Friday night ... I think Enterprise is finally hitting its groove. I know everyone has their opinion, but while it isn't comparable to the very best of DS9 or even TNG, its certainly miles ahead of Voyager in terms of quality. I don't think its the casting that's necessarily weak - but probably more the characters. Still, TNG didn't have characters as good as TOS ... and DS9 was weaker than TNG until they brought Worf aboard. It took Avery Brooks until probably Season 3 or 4 to really start getting into Sisko ... he wasn't like Patrick Stewart who had a great screen presence almost from the beginning (sorry, it took me a while to get used to the bald captain :) ). Voyager never .. NEVER had good characters .. at least the new series has Hoshi :) And really there isn't anyone groan inducing like Neelix (which is strange - because the doctor kind of reminds me of him - just not annoying) or Nog from DS9 or Wesley (sorry Wil .. still think *you're* cool) from TNG.
... go back and watch enterprise lately .. I think they are doing a great job. Not as good as it could be, and certainly not as "cool" (now the in thing is to be anti Star Trek) as Battlestar (now that we decided not to kill anyone for a female Starbuck and human cylons) or Stargate (but not Atlantis, because thats NOT cool in the eyes of the SF culture police) ... but they are making it entertaining at least ...
Seriously
I got depressed and stopped watching when every show was about xindhi.... a little too much like terrorists for me
The people involved with Star trek need to take a few years off, look at the canon and then come up with stories that make sense and work within that framework.
This game of one-upmanship with every episode affecting the "Ultiimate Fate of the Federation"(TM) has gotten real old.
DS9 did well because they had stories about characters people cared about and built the large "impending federation doom" over time when people already cared about what was happening.
Thankfully Sci-fi nowadays has Stargate SG-1 and Atlantis, the new Galactica shows promise and a new B5 movie(B5:The Memory of Shadows) starts filming this year.
What should be done with Star Trek, TNG, DS9, EP?
1. Kill It
2. Get Michael Moore to add fiction
3. Send it to the hollow-plot-deck
4. Reincarnate it as a musical
5. Zap
6. Read Cowboy Neal's Nanotech Martini
Its not that we are 'Trekked Out' and tired of the Star Trek theme. I still watch TNG, DS9, and Voyager an enjoy them.
All it would take is well written episodes. The Enterprise series to me didn't start to get interesting or seem well written until the Xindi first appeared in a sphere that disintegrated part of Florida. After that the writting seemed to get better.
Keep it interesting folks.
But Galatica is hardly innovative. Firefly was the only SciFi TV with some innovations at all in the past few years. Outlook is bleak indeed.
And water is not wet. If you are going to make sweeping statements provide an example so we point out your errant though processes.
-_-
The the other cast were good, especially Gates McFadden as Crusher, but that show would not have made it without the strength of Stewart.
Unless he shows up, I'm not watching.
Stardate 209323.30934
We have entered a region of unknown and dangerous space. We have full sensors recording any possible signs of threat
(intercom) This is your captain speaking. We are under direct financial attack, and are being threatened with the possiblity of being taken offline! How dare they treat us like scum! Prepare for all out defensive manuvers! Hold on folks!
Stargate and Battlestar Galactica are the premier scifi shows on today. I'll admit, the last couple of seasons of Stargate have really been reaching beyond the original storyline, but not in a bad way. I firmly believe Richard Dean Anderson is the primary reason why that show doesn't suck. Battlestar Galactica, on the other hand, is extremely watchable. The realism, subtle plotlines, the intensity of some of the characters (Cmdr Adama)...it just all adds up to a great show. I agree that Star Trek needs some time off; movies included. If it ever is to return, a new set of writers and directors will have to take the helm and come up with something new/different/better/that doesn't suck.
Yet Another Time Travel Plot!
Enterprise has beaten the proverbial horse to death with contrived time travel plots. Just when I thought this season put the "time travel" claptrap behind. Please Berman I beg you, no more! No more!!
I watched a coupla episodes here and there...and the damn Vulcan chick was always getting her tits out on the slightest pretext.
Don't get me wrong -- I LOVE TITS.
But I know where to get pr0n when I wanna look at them, thank you very much Star Trek.
When tits and ass becomes a major selling point
of a show it's just demeaning to the viewers and kinda sad.
Some issue with the Battlestar Galactica remake. Having cute girls on the show is cool, but give them better roles than serving as eye candy, damnit.
Rumors flew about a series based on Riker's command of the U.S.S. Titan after "Nemesis" - maybe this is an attempt to transition to a new series?
Truly, the writers for Enterprise are not worthy to be burned into a smoking smear by this magnificent creature.
[Set Cain on fire and steal his lute.]
No seriously. If the writers had any sense they'd kill off Archer. Its the only way to save the show. He's so awful he makes my head hurt. He's stiffer than Kevin Costner with rigormortis. He sucked in Quantum Leap and now he's brought truckloads of "suck-age" right along with him in to Trek-land.
And can we lose the whole T'Pol+Trip love connection. Its so cheese. Better yet, can we kill T'Pol too? Not that I have anything against tits-on-a-stick, but can anyone bear watching this nasty-ass fake-titted Los Angeles pr0n-star with way too much cosmetic surgery pretend to be an emotionless Vulcan? Pretending to be from San Francisco would be a stretch for this "actress".
And then get a new friggin ship while you're at it. The silver, intentionally-retro look of the ship is just plain weak. What is this, "Battleship Potemkin"? The Enterprise looks like a precursor to a submarine. The set designers seem to have forgotten that while the show is set before TNG, its still supposed to be *our future*. God its ugly.
And can we get some unhealthy people please? Christ, Battlestar Galactica introduced an alcoholic, a pathological liar, a cancer patient and a dysfunctional family in its first 10 minutes. Does everyone need to be such a goody-two-shoes on this ship? As it stands now, Ned Flanders would fit right in.
Oh what do I care... I already cancelled my Tivo season pass... I couldn't take it anymore...
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
Wouldn't that be preprise. I'm not sure, since I've never quite figured out all this "temporal" stuff, but I know Enterprise is before Next Generation.
'SBEMAIL!' is better than a goat!!
If Riker and Troi will be in the season finale, that probably means it'll be a cliffhanger...so if Enterprise gets cancelled, we'll never find out how it ends. I know the show isn't that great, but seriously, that would be a very sad way for a Star Trek series to end.
Give a man fire, and you warm him for the night. Set a man on fire, and you warm him for the rest of his life.
...DeForest Kelley, and I'll be impressed.
-- Even if a god did exist, why the fsck should I worship it?
Brian Brian Bo Brian
Banana Fanna Fo Frian
Fee fi mo Mian
Brian!
I stopped watching Enterprise as soon as it turned into bizarre soft-porn. I don't mind soft-porn, but Enterprise and Star Trek as a franchise is supposed to challenge science with a moral string attached.
I didn't see that in this series. All I saw was a sitcom/soap opera that grated my nerves. It's too late for Enterprise. Perhaps they should put the Producer in a shower scene with a prisoner- then I would watch. But, would it be Star Trek? No. The characters are decent enough. The plot and dialogue though are just plain crap.
Shoot the monkey at the typewriter and pick up Michio Kaku as science advisor for the next series. Then Star Trek would have a chance to be true to it's past. Until then, let this be a lesson to future Producer's without intellect. Maybe this is just a foreshadowing of how liberal Hollywood degenerate's and science do not mix. Keep in mind that these genius's nearly cancelled the first Star Trek series. Nice shot man. End.
Maybe they'll come through the same wormhole that allows Geordi to host Reading Rainbow.
/^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
Picard: "Mr Worf, fire at will!"
*ZOT*
Picard: "Hmm... where did Riker go?"
bash$
I'd rather see a guest apearance by Wil Wheaton as Weasley Crusher and the Traveler than Riker and Diana. Would make for more interesting TV. I never really bought the whole Riker Diana thing anyway, or wasn't she with Worf for a while?
Anyway, if you havent already, check out Just A Geek.
PS: No, I'm not Wil or related
Im dreaming ofa big bndwdth, That can resist the
It should be quite interesting to see how exactly one jumps over a shark in a spaceship.
A gimmick with time-travelling TNG characters is going to save the show?
Wasn't the thing that killed the show in the first place stupid implausible gimmicks and idiotic time travel plots?? I seem to remember they were doing fairly acceptably in public perception and ratings up until they started dragging that shit in.
It's like the people at UPN are going "oh no! the building is on fire, whatever shall we do? wait, i know, we'll ADD MORE FLAMES"
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Too bad the final episode isn't filmed live. I for one would love to see a Deanna Troi wardrobe malfunction.
*Insert Riker playing a note on the trombone here*
"I'm sure the last Enterprise episode will feature a half-vulcan/half-borg Picard with large breasts."
oh god I just had a mental image!!!
*shudders*
T'Pol: Captain, it appears to be a shark from Earth, except of enormous size.
Archer: Then we have only one choice; prepare to jump the shark!
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
Good grief, yet another ST season finale that involves time travel.
Star Trek has never really done a good job of time travel. Nevermind the "temporal cold war" and all that, any universe in which time travel is possible, and even common, should be a mad-house. (Recall Slartibartfast's Campaign for Real Time in HHG2G. That wise old man new time travel had to be stopped, for the good of us all).
Enterprise is best when it captures the inexperience of the crew: a bunch of newbies wandering the galaxy trying not to get blown up by the next klingons they encounter. Screwy "don't think to hard about it" time travel episodes are not a good way to "save" the series.
that Sirtis has fans.
My comments may be crap...but they are my crap...and I am brave enough to stand by them...Never post as AC!
The temporal cold war arc was more or less abandonned at the end of the second season and tied up at the beginning of this season.
I bet it goes like this:
First, he starts with a 't',
then goes ahead with an 'h',
followed by an 'o',
which is quickly tailed by 'u'.
After that, he puts in an 'h',
and finally a 'g'.
Oh, nevermind. I found the error.
I know more than you drink.
Two of the least compelling TNG characters are supposed to help save the show? How about getting Picard and Data to show up instead?
Get Shatner to host "Iron Chef Enterprise" and make them compete against the food dispenser.
The good casting decisions have agents who won't let them on Enterprise.
paintball
They should end the show by having Sam leap out of Archer and into Picard. That'd be brilliant.
I'd rather see the Enterprise get eaten by Unicron.
... no, never.
they were in the past, yet the bridge of the Enterprise used in Enterprise looked better than the one used on TOS. Even the Kligons had better acting than the crew of the Enterprise.
;)
Star Trek needs to get back to its roots, cheesy special effects, wooden acting, and hackneyed plots, like TOS had. Instead we have great special effects, bad acting, and plots with so many holes in them that they resemble Swiss Cheese. At least TNG and DS9 had better acting and plots. Voyager, was basically recycled "Lost in Space" stories using a Starfleet crew. Seven of Nine was the Robot, ah well, you figure out the rest.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
is lay off the gratuitous T&A with baltar.
:-P
/. minority with regards to the BSG T&A. :-/
it's like they feel they have to bring out the jiggling titties every 10 minutes or so in order to keep the viewers attention, because they don't think their story is good enough to stand on its own.
hey! you still paying attention? titties! titties! here you go! see! this is a really good sci-fi show! jiggle jiggle jiggle! don't you want to watch some more now?
it's like watching a scene from the sopranos, and then suddenly it switches over to american gladiators without warning.
unfortunately i suspect i'm in the
"I enjoy the Stargate shows most times ("
I really don't. It felt like episodic television. It had none of the energy of the original. The plots were constrained by the lack of budget for FX.
I mean, I understand...some people like Scott Bacula too, but that doesn't mean he doesn't sucked.
I thought they destroyed the Enterprise in that movie *years* ago.
No, no, no, no, no.
No.
How about instead they ditch those two, save all that money and instead spend it on a 45 minute long lesbian scene between t'pol and hoshi, no not some crappy kid-safe scene, a proper late-night special, go beyond the final frontier, the next generation, boldly! and it could even involve some elaborate time-travel scenario where they must get completely naked or else risk being stranded in a half-way dimension. Now tell me seriously that this episode won't get viewers?
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
What kind of moron thought Deep Space 9 was entertaining?
I'll certainly want to watch now that they've included the least interesting hanger's on from the old cast. When is Frakes gonna get a real job and stop ruining the even Trek movies?
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
Gee, slashy, thanks for that wonderful spoiler warning. I knew just when to stop reading to avoid the huge spoiler that Riker and Troi might be making an appearance. You know, just cause the show sucks, doesn't mean I want it spoiled! And this isn't the first time this has happened. Grr.
The series' first episode, "33", had me on the edge of my chair and biting my nails for the entire hour. Very well done, very suspenseful, a fantastic anteclimax. The other two episodes each ended without me realizing a full hour passed. I was so engrossed that I was surprised when the credits rolled (obviously, I was watching them in real time, don't have a DVR). I really hope they maintain this level of quality. The acting is good (as sci fi acting goes, it is great), and the story writing is solid (as sci fi TV writing goes, it is fantastic). If I could hook you up with downloads, I would. I enjoyed it that much.
For the record, I caught a few episodes of Enterprise. It was neat, liked the doctor (seems like a very knows-where-his-towel-is kind of guy), but couldn't get past the Star Trek conventions of "technobable of the week". Am I the only trekkie who really, really enjoyed the old school Star Trek, as in the first season's episodes where Kirk's best friend becoming God, or The Cage? To me, that's authentic sci fi, with the Captain Kirk "just-a-jigalo" season-three Trek or angsty "let's-make-love-not-war" TNG being poorly-written parables at best (and typically lousy "appeal-to-the-masses-by-showing-boobs-or-blowing- shit-up" stories). Ah well. I liked Doctor Who, so I guess that doesn't say much about my aesthetic tastes, so you should probably just ignore me. :)
I'm proud of my Northern Tibetian Heritage
An army of the same hot android?
No.
Next question.
--
Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
Seriously, how cool was it to turn on Outer Limits and see Christopher Reeves or some other quality actor doing a role you wouldn't normally see them in. (Okay, CR is a bad example, but you get the point).
is jeffrey combs as commander shran. i also liked his work in ds9 as weyoun.
too bad they ended ds9. it was far better than tng or enterprise or that voyager rot.
Oh the pain! Such terrible pain!
As I read this comment she came on the radio singing "True Colors." I still seem to like it. Oh, and Enterprise is pretty good, considering it's a TV series. It was better in the first season (wasn't TOS too?) back before everyone started telling them what they had to do to "improve," but I still find myself tuning in when it's on. That's what the TV game is all about.
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
Though it definitely did innovate by not sucking, something that can't really be said for most space-based pseudo-scifi shows lately.
The Farewell Tour II
I think that the number one thing they need to do right now for Enterprise is to 'cat script | grep temporal' For every word about time travel that shows up, you get to beat the writers with a 2x4. They abused time and time travel so horribly it's beyond reason. The Voyager two-part 'year of hell' was hard to believe, but Enterprise made it look downright quaint.
Okay, an occasional foray into time travel is cool. An entire season based on a 'temporal cold war' it is a sign that the idea factory has burnt to the ground.
Just my $.02...
I've given the show multiple chances so far.
I have to admit that I was against the idea of a prequel to start with. It just seemed like the Berman/Braga team saw that George Lucas made a financial (if not artistic) success of the idea and therefore decided it was worth copying. I watched the pilot anyway, but gave up about halfway through. Now, Trek pilots are classically weak, but this one was just boring. Like Voyager on Sominex.
So I waited a while. I still didn't like the whole prequel idea, didn't like the fact that the tech seemed to be more advanced than the first TOS pilot, and wasn't that impressed by the cheesy technological substitutions for stuff from chronologically subsequent eras of Trek like "polarized hull plating" and "protein resequencers." (Now of course the obvious reason is that "The Cage" was 1966 and "Broken Bow" was 2001, but how do they go from "phase pistols" to "laser pistols" back to "phasers?" Why does the Romulan ship look like it belongs in the 24th century with the similarly-styled D'Deridex rather than the 22nd? But I digress.)
So when an anticipated "event" episode that all the reviewers said was good came up, I tuned in. I did this with the Borg episode. How cute, they managed to work one of the the most recognizable Trek villains in and made all sorts of in-jokey references while leaving the principal cast in the dark as to what they had just encountered! I did this again with the first Xindi episode, when half of Florida got taken out. The terrorist metaphor and somber mood just seemed forced to me, like they were groping for something to write into the script.
I did this again for the last Xindi episode. That was pretty neat, even though Archer's action-hero stint left me cold. The Death Star ripoff was kinda cool, and seeing the CGI P-51s was neat even though I knew the twist was coming, but the alien Nazi thing was just blah. I didn't really care how that turned out, fearing similar convolution to the concealment of the Borg and the intro of the Xindi. Since then I've tuned in once more, to the Augment episodes with Brent Spiner. He was kinda cool (my mom even walked into the room and exclaimed, "It's Data!") but the actors playing the Augments (who had to carry much of the story) kinda sucked. It was partly what they had to work with. The most memorable thing, to me, was that it was the first time I had heard the word "bitch" in what was ostensibly a Star Trek episode. Ooh, edgy.
That being said, I have to respect Manny Coto for tying in old plot elements. It looks like the next hyped "event" episode will be the Mirror Universe one, and I may tune in for the "ooh-ahh" of a CGI battle damaged Constitution-class. But the TrekToday preview I saw made a point of noting how much more aggressive and backstabbing the mirror Archer would be. Big whoop. Another problem I've had with the show is that Scott Bakula seems to have lost his acting talent since "Quantum Leap." All the Archer performances I've seen come off as wooden, and I have no reason to believe this won't be the same.
Another point in Enterprise's favor is the awesome special effects that trump just about anything else in Trek, but SFX do not a show make. Without characters to fly all them nifty ships in a convincing manner, it ain't worth much. A lot of people have cited the addition of Worf to DS9 as something similar to the Enterprise gimmick castings, but think about what they did with Worf on DS9. He got married, got captured and thrown in a POW camp, met Martok and joined his House, watched his wife die, and at the end of it all wound up a diplomat instead of a warrior. Tell me, is Arik Soong gonna be back, ever? Are Riker and Troi going to be stranded in the 22nd century and join the NX-01 crew, and thus explore new situations we haven't seen their characters in before? Hell, is any of this gonna happen with the already-established Enterprise characters as a result of these castings? Somehow, I doubt it.
This comment is already way too long, but I'm also gonna h
The only way that Enterprise can prevent itself from being
an abomination to the Trek universe that came before it,
is to have the Enterprise (especially Archer) end the series by
sacrificing themselves to end the temporal cold war and
save the federation and all of humanity. In so doing,
they would completely erase themselves from history, along with
all the changes that the series has made to Trek.
The only exception would be T'Pau's awareness at some level,
that would fit in with Spock's Pon Farr episode, when Kirk
comments on the rumor that T'Pau was the only Vulcan to serve
on a Starfleet vessel.
Hey Wes, can you forward this to Berman??
q a z
Is this a rhetorical question?
Software Wars
(in the immortal words of George Takei)
Excuse me? Handheld cameras (Firefly), big-titted females (7 of 9, others too numerous to mention) evil clones (again, take your pick)... wow, lots of innovation here! Not to mention converting a whole race of existing characters from robots to clones because they're cheaper to film, and oh yeah, let's have some of the clones specialize in sex, and change some of the male characters to females so we can throw in more soap-opera relationship dialog.
Get serious. The new BSG is a bag of cliches thrown together to placate starving sci-fi fans while attracting the largest possible general audience.
It's pretty difficult to take seriously the idea of Enterprise being further back in time than TOS when the Enterprise looks more advanced than it was in TOS. That turned me off right away to the whole 'Enterprise' series right away. Getting it back to it's roots might not be a bad start, though but I think that at this point it's really beyond saving. I also don't believe that bringing cast members from TNG will save it, either. More like it sounds as though they're beating a dead horse at this point.
I'm sorry, but I just don't see what the big deal is with Galactica. Yeah, it's great that we have all these flawed characters trying to work through their problems, but. . . . Has anybody noticed all the *stupid* stuff in Galactica?
I mean, Cylons that look like humans and apparently can't even be distinguished from humans with medical tests -- yet still have robot-like abilities. How could that possibly work?
Cylons wiping out humanity for reasons that are poorly defined and make no sense. (The parent must die before the child can come into his own? Give me a break!)
Religious Cylons. Nuff said.
Baltar's inexplicable tendency to side with the Cylons even after they *duped* him into helping them. Wouldn't you be hacked off if they did that to you? Maybe the point is that he's a jerk. Why does so much of the show focus on a jerk?
Confusing plot line developing on the Cylon-occupied planet. Maybe it will start making some kind of sense eventually?
Celestial bodies with WATER are rare? I guess our solar system is some kind of freakish curiosity, since it's littered with icy bodies.
But most of all I'm disgusted by Baltar's hallucinations, daydreams, Cylon mind-control transmissions, whatever they are. . . I'd much rather watch a good old-fashioned outer space show -- with things blowing up -- rather than this strange rambling exploration of some jerk's unconscious.
I'm not blind to ST: Enterprise's shortcomings. . . But if Enterprise and Galactica came on at the same time, I imagine I'd opt for Enterprise.
[Enterprise 1 set vanishes, replaced by empty holodeck]
Riker: [taps badge] Riker to bridge. Captain, the runaway holodeck virus has been destroyed.
Picard (heard through communicator): Very good Number One. Mr. Crusher, ahead warp 5.
Troi: How are you feeling?
Riker: Hungry. For a hot fudge sundae. In your quarters.
Troi: [knowing smile]
Theme music up, Enterprise D goes into warp. Roll credits.
NO!
Wait. With Marina Sirtis?
Umm, Yes!
Oh man he was suuuuuuuch a bad actor. This is bad news if they are depending on him to save the show.
It's dead, Jim. Let it go.
UTF-8: There and Back Again
Enterprise is starting to look really good. I previously submitted a story - that was rejected :-( - about the next half of Star Trek: Enterprise. Trektoday reported that it will feature some exciting plots involving "Andoria, a Klingon moon, Romulan outposts, Romulan Marauders, Orion Privateers, Earth's Moon, Mars, a Constitution-class Federation starship and more. You'll see a live Tholian... and a Gorn." according to the show runner Manny Coto. Leaked mild spoilers also indicate that the Constitution-class ship is the U.S.S. Defiant, which re-appears in the two-parter episode titled, In a Mirror, Darkly. There have been beautiful pictures of the reconstructed set just recently posted too. As a hardcore Trekkie, I find it fascinating.
It is impossible to enjoy idling thoroughly unless one has plenty of work to do.
- Jerome Klapka Jerome
Yes! Best. Space TV show. Evar. (okay, I'll submit to Babylon 5 beating out S:AaB, but just barely and only because it was allowed to run longer.) Too bad it got screwed by Fox's typical "Let's move good shows around and pre-empt them for sports" policies. Thankfully they didn't do that with 24, and because of that it's now into a richly deserved and very good (IMHO) fourth season.
See, Fox? See what happens when you give a show a chance? You screwed with Space: Above and Beyond, Firefly, Family Guy, and so many others. Perhaps you've finally found your way now, giving 24 a chance and bringing back Family Guy (however limited). Let's see more! Drop the "Who Wants to Marry your Millionaire Midget Daddy 911" bullshit and get back to making excellent dramas and comedies. Your F/X subsidiary has it right with The Shield, Nip/Tuck, and Rescue Me.
Troy and Riker are a few generations younger than the cast characters of Enterprise. I guess the producers hae gotten worse then ever - that or Jonathan Frakes wants to relive his glory days! Everything went downhill the day Roddenbury died and now we have to deal with his wife, Majel and Bergen and that other dude (can't remember his name right now). If they are going to cancel the series, at least let it be done in style instead of subjecting fans to this drivel.
Riker can just sit there and drool on himself while the hotties do the do.
Oh yeah.
While it has its flaws, I would say Stargate is one of the hardest science fiction shows in history.
The reason why is because it's progressive. If you exclude the introductory and wrap-up episodes common in more recent series, you could swap the first and last episode of ST:TNG. ST:TOS. Quantum Leap (other than Sam regaining his memory). Seven Days. And on and on and on. It's all fantasy - the actors have a magic box or two and roam the universe or timeline without really changing anything.
Stargate is one of the few shows that shows progression. The Tori'i were clueless in the first few episodes (after Teal'c joined them). But their hard work introduced them to the Toik'ra, gave them naquida generators, introduced us to the Asgard, bootstrapped the development of our own fighters, allowed us to run the Prometheus, got us advanced engines from a grateful Asgard, and on and on and on.
Have they had missteps? Sure. Are they on the verge of having so many goodies that they run the risk of having the rabid viewer ask "why didn't they use the gozmotron from the 3rd season?" In fact they've turned that to their advantage - after a few seasons those goodies are reintroduced in a natural manner. The "safe" bullets are used for training. The virtual reality pods are used for training and planning.
Sometimes the science is hokey, but you have a very real sense that they're trying to figure things out and often get it wrong. But they keep at it until they succeed.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
on Hoshi and T'Pol.
I like the blue goo. Blue goo isssssss goooooooodddd.
The real question is, why does Sirtis have a fan site??!
To recap...
You don't like thought provoking, character-driven storylines.
You like big explosions in space, nevermind the fact that there isn't an atmosphere to have the big explosions in space.
You can't deal with concurrent plots that may deal with theology and the defining of what makes one "alive".
In summary you're right that BSG isn't your cup of tea. Best you stick with Trek and its odd-forehead of the week, particle of the week, and/or time-traveling plots.
"On a scale from 1 to 10, people are stupid"
In other words, more time travel B.S. Why don't they just make the whole thing a total TV cliche and have Tripp knock-up T'pal. Then they could have episodes around her expanding belly, and they could have a hilarious finale episode where Tripp loses his cool when T'pal is going to deliver.
Just when you thought the morons responsible for Star Trek couldn't sink any lower, they find a way.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Too much computer graphics.
I enjoy great story telling and cheesy sets like Dr. Who.
Wil Wheaton is cool. Wesley was not.
Bring Wil Wheaton back... as Wesley... BUT MAKE HIM A VILLIAN.
Evil Genious will do.
you know I'm right.
-pyrrho
villain, villain... a'ight?
Genius...fine... and fuck off!
-pyrrho
Didn't Sisko jump into the "We are not linear" dimension at the end of DS9? Given that, he seems like the only one they could bring in without using the MUCH over-abused time travel crap they've been spinning. Sisko could teach Archer a few things...
Maybe we can just wait for Q to pop in and really have some fun.
Fascinating. Television? Great.
Why can't you people hang out at People magazine's web site?
I like Enterprise because it goes back to the series' roots (although it could use a tad more cheesiness.) :)
Getting Frakes and Sirtis to reprise their best-known roles is not "stunt casting". If you got Paris Hilton and Carrottop to play Troy and Riker, that would be stunt casting.
fish and pipes
I would hardly say DS9 got off to a solid start. They had far, far too many Quark Holodeck - style episodes in their first few seasons. Then something changed, what was that? I can't remember...
Babaylon 5 came along and rocked their world. With massive story arcs, a dark, gritty atmosphere, and a sense of impending doom from forces far too great for you to comprehend, Babylon 5 came along and out Trekked DS9. After it became clear that Babalon 5 was a better show, the crew stationed aboard DS9 discovered the Dominion, declared war on the Klingons, started killing eachother, and generally did a great job of writing gritty, gripping human emotion stories.
This is also the time that two Ex TNG cast members came aboard: Warf and O'Brian. Completely co-incidently, this is the time that Berman and Braga left DS9 to go work on Voyager. A lot of the Ex-trek castmembers started writing and filming DS9 episodes. The writers with seniority were taken over to Voyager, the writers with talent were sent back to Deep Space 9 like it was a summer training camp. Thanks to B&B's inability to see talent when it is slapping them in the face, they took all of the people who they thought were the best to their pet project, freeing up the people who were actually the best to do something great.
One of these models thrived. Can you guess which one? I'm only sad that Enterprise won't get a chance to answer the call of Battlestar Galactica the same way, and with the same talent, that DS9 answered Babylon 5
The ______ Agenda
Why couldn't they have been reprising their roles as David Xanatos and Demona?!?!?!
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
"Firefly was the only SciFi TV with some innovations at all in the past few years."
Firefly was great, I tuned in every week. It was like a wild-west in space, just a group of people thrown togeather who were just trying to make a living to get by, keep their ship in working condition and getting food. Along their travels they land on worlds for missions and supplys, and that was the basis of the show...
Really unique view of what it would be like to be a trader/freighter/mercanery in our possible future.
Not the look and view of space from a huge battleship/exploration ship by Military H.Q., but rather from the perspective of normal civilians trying to make a living.
I loved the show..., beats Battlestar, Startrek, Stargate, B5 and all the rest imho
When I was a kid, I love ToS. I don't know why - I can hardly watch it now. Probably cause it was sci-fi more than anything. I remember when TNG came on, and while rough at start, it became a damn good show, going all sorts of places the original never did.
I'll admin that I never really watched DS9. The theme music put me to sleep, and I saw it as B5 without tha action. I understand it got a lot better, but the first season turned me right off.
I watched Voyager - I can't recall very much about it. Lots of holodeck adventures or "oh...that never really happened" stories to the best of my knowledge.
Voyager to me was way too calm. TNG had stuff going on, crap that just had to happen even if Picard thought it was a bad way to handle things. Voyager just seemed to be too much of "well...we're in a jam, lets all sit down, talk about it, and then talk our way out of it." Though, in their defense with Species 8xxx, they finally came up with an alien that was more than a funny forehead or nose! Though another annoying thing was every alien planet looked like the california desert with little mud homes that had high tech doors on them or something. Okay...find a few different locations to shoot on folks.
I was REALLY looking forward to Enterprise. Sounded cool - the Federation at the beginning during it's rough founding years. Soundes like a nitty gritty show. I like Scott Bacula as an actor and thought that would help.
While I still like it better than Voyager, the show suffers from the same problem - too much "lets show the universe how wonderful and diplomatic humans are".
I think one of the best episodes was when Archer sole the warp coil or something from one ship stranding them. Reminded me of TNG where crap had to be done, against the rules or not and it was done - damn the consequences.
Other problems I have with enterprise are:
1) Why is it so damn dark? Here it is in 2005 and we have light bulbs that put use 25 wants and act like a 75 watt light bulb. The enterprise looks like it is lit with a few flashlighs that need new batteries.
2) why is the ship so nice? This is one of the first ships, it should be rougher. I like the different bridge design, but to me, it should be something more like the Maru in Andromeda.
3) Why don't we ever come across aliens that can't kick our ass?
4) Enough of the shots of the shuttles. We know the transporters work pretty okay now - time to start using them and stop having "were stuck due to shuttle issue" stories.
5) enuff of the damn vulcan's. Yeah...they are annoying but mostly look good in tight garb. We get the picture.
Probably my two favorite characters are Hoshi and the Doctor. Hell...on Voyager, the Doctor was my favorite character as well. Perhaps they should write more medical stories.
Oh well...I'm tired.
Have Riker and Troi in the present (well, the present for them at least - TNG time) and have them researching or learning about something that happened during Enterprise's time period and show it with the enterprise crew in flashbacks or something.
That way you can get the guest appearances without having to come up with a complete cheese story.
Kinda like how they got Starbuck into Galactica 1980!
Either that or have them be guest stars but in different roles or something.
Let me answer your questions :)
.. Wolf 359
1) Why is it so damn dark? Here it is in 2005 and we have light bulbs that put use 25 wants and act like a 75 watt light bulb. The enterprise looks like it is lit with a few flashlighs that need new batteries.
->Its called mood lighting. Makes it more dramatic.
2) why is the ship so nice? This is one of the first ships, it should be rougher. I like the different bridge design, but to me, it should be something more like the Maru in Andromeda.
-> Star Trek is about futuristic technology, and they ARE the most advanced ship created by the planet Earth at the time. All the resources of a planet going into a ship.. it better not look ratty.
3) Why don't we ever come across aliens that can't kick our ass?
-> The reason Voyager did so poorly in its first couple seasons was it was too depressing. Hence the bringing on of Jeri Ryan and the reason Voyager could suddenly kick the Borg's ass even though a single Borg Cube could take out an entire fleet
4) Enough of the shots of the shuttles. We know the transporters work pretty okay now - time to start using them and stop having "were stuck due to shuttle issue" stories.
-> Seriously now, if they invented teleportation in the next 20 years.. would you want to step into them? And we know that there were cases of Transporter Psychosis back in that century.. I want to see someone go crazy!
5) enuff of the damn vulcan's. Yeah...they are annoying but mostly look good in tight garb. We get the picture.
-> They are one of the best parts of the show. Star Trek is great, because they explore things like racism and prejudice without actually offending anyone!
I nominate you for the funniest post of the year award
I can't believe the negative opinions flying around here. Maybe if I give a basic outline of the plotline of this episode we can work up some enthusiasm:
1. Deanna Troi
2. T'Pol
3. Decontaminating gel
4. (There is no ???)
5. Sell realtime streaming video access
6. Profit!
-- I have monkeys in my pants.
nuff said
I'm sure the last Enterprise episode will feature a half-vulcan/half-borg Picard with large breasts.
Been there, done that:
Lieutenant Ilia from Star Trek: The Motion Picture
I pity da fool who goes to da Delta Quadrant!
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
This is the latest bad gimmick in a tragic series. Enterprise got more and more gimmicky every month, until they had nothing left.
The first season was quite good, though it had the usual Trek first-season weaknesses: plots kind of random, characters not fleshed out, tech not developed, etc. Unfortunately that probably turned off a lot of the viewers who were expecting more, and the reduced ratings may have started the whole spiral...
I rolled my eyes when they brought in the time-travel gimmick with people from the future, but at least it was all new material and helped the storylines develop, so that was okay.
Then they did this future-9/11 thing which was obviously a big huge gimmick to try to tie the show to current affairs. It was too obvious, but it did help the stories (some were actually quite riveting) -- for about half the season.
Towards season's end they started dropping more and more references to past Trek series (i.e. to the future), like Archer hinting about the Federation and "explainations" of some of the history from TOS/TNG/DS9. That was the point they crossed the line from "good" gimmickry to "bad". These did nothing for the series, and just seemed to be there to try to keep old Trek fans hooked.
Then Archer starts making alliances with the fuckin' "hated" Xindi and I knew I wouldn't be watching for much longer. I know Trek is repetitive, but it's usually in a good way. Heck, they've used the "enemy-turn-friend" theme to produce some great Trek episodes in all series up until Enterprise. There it just killed the story lines and took the drama with it.
I stopped watching at the end of last season, and when I saw the preview for the first episode with Spiner in it, I knew I'd done the right thing.
I wondered how much lower they might sink, and with this Troi/Riker thing, now we know.
It's time to kill this Trek and file it off in the "bad mistake" pile along with ST:V and most of Voyager. (Though at least Voyager didn't make a mockery of Trek. It just wasn't well-written most of the time.)
Hopefully we'll still get to see a "Birth of the Federation" series at some point, which is what Enterprise originally (d?)evolved from. There's so much potential there. Just as long as they don't give it to the Enterprise producers...
If there thought there was money in it we'd have "Meesa Dockta Notta Breeck-laya, Massa Jim" by next Tuesday.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I like Enterprise. I think it is a good show. It may be no TNG, but it is still a good show. Voyager is the one that should have ended early on.
Even though this move to bring two TNG characters into the mix raises a vulcan eyebrow, Cmdr. Riker was my favorite character.
"Hard work never killed anyone." -- Some Dead Guy
Well, apparently the producers have figured out a way to include William Shatner (or, at least, footage of him), even if he doesn't want any part of "Enterprise"
http://allyourtv.com/rickonmedia/index.php?p=225
like a drum.
Sam needs to leap outta there! He's been crusading as a starfleet captain too long.... now he might never make the leap home. Ziggy says theres a 95% chance that the show will be cancelled.
Kirk wasn't a flat character - just acted that way!
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Yea..I almost wish I could create some sort of subspace temporal anomaly and go back to the beautiful time of TNG. *sigh* A girl can never get enough of Mr. Crusher...haven't his balls even dropped? The only way they could save this enterprise crap is by cutting it off nice and clean, who can get the image of hairy Samuel Beckett in that dress (opening theme QL) out of their head anyway!
I love Firefly, I've watched the episodes many times (I think I'm missing one or two, though), but I wouldn't call it innovative, it's a western in space, except for the low tech all over the place (which I like, I love westerns), it's pretty much like Privateer (except the government in privateer wasn't so oppresive, it's rather utopical, actually).
If there isn't already a Usenetgroup by this name- there damn well ought to be.
DS9 was the last-best effort of the franchise. The Trek universe has run its course. It should die and never, ever be brought back.
Enterprise, The Undiscovered Country, Nemesis and a host of real stinkeroos from all of the franchise says this horse is dead. Stop beating it and enjoy the excellent shows: "City on the Edge of Forever", Ellison & ST matched only by Ted Sturgeon's, "Shore Leave" and trailed by David Gerrold's"The Trouble with Tribbles"
Some like the poor adaptation of the Berserker saga in "The Doomsday Machine"; TNG has few good episodes and, IMHO, "The Inner Light" tops the series; Voyager and Enterprise leave me cold.
DS9 has the outstanding, "Far Beyond the Stars", the return to Gerrold's Tribbles in "Trials and Tribbilations"; and, "In the Pale Moonlight" coupled with "The Seige of AR-558" DS9 takes war in fantasy to the edge of reality.
The ensemble cast of DS9 worked better together than any other cast in the franchise and, they were - for the most part - far better actors with better material - despite Berman & Braga. Ira Steven Behr is the man responsible for the quality of DS9.
Behr made certain that Cisco wouldn't be back - they didn't kill him - they revealed him to be a God/wormhole alien - end of that character. Period.
Let it go. Let it go. Let it go.
How's that offspring doing? I can't watch it here in Austria, so I'm curious if its good or not. Oh, I've read about some of its episodes, but this stuff with the Wraiths sounds kinda lame to me. Am I wrong?
This sig does not contain any SCO code.
By best written you mean boring and annoying, right? And note to mods, trolling and having poor opinions of your fanboy hobbies are two different things.
The Farewell Tour II
n/t
>I mean, Cylons that look like humans and apparently
>can't even be distinguished from humans with medical
>tests -- yet still have robot-like abilities. How
>could that possibly work?
Um, what robot-like abilities? Do little buzz saws and electric prods pop out of their abdomens, like R2-D2?
>Cylons wiping out humanity for reasons that are poorly
>defined and make no sense. (The parent must die before
>the child can come into his own? Give me a break!)
Actually, they haven't defined exactly why the Cylons wiped out humanity. We do know the Cylons think God likes them best. It's possible God told them to wipe out humanity, but they haven't come right out and said that. We do know a Six model expressed sadness over the destruction of humanity. Another Cylon reminded her that humanity probably would have destroyed itself anyhow, eventually. In a way humanity did just that, through creating the Cylons. And the Cylons fear humanity - they made that clear at the end of the miniseries. If it weren't for that fear, it seemed as though they might have been willing to just let the survivors run away.
>Baltar's inexplicable tendency to side with the Cylons
>even after they *duped* him into helping them. Wouldn't
>you be hacked off if they did that to you?
Huh? When has he sided with the Cylons? He unwittingly aided them, but he hasn't "sided" with them. He's kept his mouth shut about some of what he knows to avoid incriminating himself. If anything, he's the only reason why the fleet has survived so long, or rather his Cylon friend Six is the reason why they've survived. Why is she helping them? Does this model also feel sorry for humanity, or is she in love with Gaius?
>Maybe the point is that he's a jerk. Why does so much
>of the show focus on a jerk?
Gee, I don't know. Why do so many dramas focus on jerks? Maybe it's because they can be interesting characters. Shakespeare's plays were full of "jerks" - they tend to set plots in motion, and elicit strong reactions from the other characters. As opposed to the dull technobabble talkfests that are modern Trek (I hear Enterprise is improving, although even a dead cat will bounce if you throw it hard enough).
>Celestial bodies with WATER are rare? I guess our solar
>system is some kind of freakish curiosity, since it's
>littered with icy bodies.
Actually, it isn't. Apart from Earth, water ice is pretty rare in the inner solar system (it's present in the Martian polar caps and probably mixed with regolith elsewhere underground). Jupiter's moons are icy, but that ice appears to be pretty heavily contaminated (Europa's ice for example is laced with sulfuric acid). Water ice further out in the solar system is mixed with volatile contaminants like ammonia. On Titan it's mixed with hydrocarbons. They made it clear in last week's episode they'd have trouble processing water that isn't already pretty pure.
>I'd much rather watch a good old-fashioned outer space
>show -- with things blowing up -- rather than this
>strange rambling exploration of some jerk's unconscious.
Well, there's no shortage of sci-fi shows featuring things blowing up, and the good news is you won't have to put any thought into understanding those stories the way you might have to with Battlestar Galactica.
What I would find much more interesting would be the DEATH of the Federation.
That would be interesting.
Empire rise and fall - but the Federation collapsing beneath corruption and war would be amazing.
(this was supposedly a show idea, starring Frakes and Sirtis - but I'm not sure they could carry it themselves)
1) Why is it so damn dark? Here it is in 2005 and we have light bulbs that put use 25 wants and act like a 75 watt light bulb. The enterprise looks like it is lit with a few flashlighs that need new batteries.
It's likely a budget issue. Dark sets not only set the mood but save bucks.... well it saves them bucks. Thanks to Enterprise I discovered how shot my old Sony 20SE was and had to buy another damn monitor. Thanks guys!
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
What do you think of ChezBrandon.com? I like it.
That may be true, but Stargate's not the only SF'ish show to've done that, and it certainly hasn't had the best execution of it. Like many other shows (such as DSN), the arc was hacked on after it was realised it'd be useful to have somewhere to go. It's been done much better than that with other shows, one of the best examples of which is definitely Babylon 5.
The entire show was built on a progressive story arc that JMS (the creator and writer for a great deal of episodes) had designed before the first episode of the first season was filmed. The specifics of the story had to change here and there to accomodate uncertainties such as possible cancellation each year, but nevertheless JMS did a brilliant job of having it all fit together.
The extent of it all is quite amazing for a television show, and it all makes for a great and comprehensive story told over five years of episodes. To properly appreciate all of the inter-references between episodes --- forwards and backwards --- it's really necessary to read the episode guides at the lurkers' guide in tandem with watching the episodes.
Enterprise has had almost no respect for the continuity of the ST universe. It is, perhaps, the main reason I don't watch it anymore.
GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
Firefly was the only SciFi TV with some innovations at all in the past few years.
As much as I liked Firefly, it was essentially just Blake's Seven in the Wild West.
Media SF is never innovative; at best it repeats ideas that literary SF tried out a decade before -- BSG, for example, is combining the original series, MilSF and Vernor Vinge.
Les Miserables Volume 1 now up with my reading of
uh huh.. he said 'handle cleavage'.. huh uhuh.. ;)
But seriously (kind of) I doubt mans reaction or behaviour towards cleavage is in any danger of changing.. ya can't chain nature down!
Thanks to Enterprise I discovered how shot my old Sony 20SE was and had to buy another damn monitor. Thanks guys!
:)
Gamma correction??
GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
Though I thought they stunk up the airwaves with episode 13; Cliches, ripoffs, cluttered, seemingly non sequiter character behavior. I'm thinking it's an anomoly more than a new direction(crossed fingers).
"On the other hand, the order of battle for the officers goes lieutenant, captain, colonel, commander, which is not similar to any existing military force structure. It's a direct lift from the old show's character names: Commander Adama, Colonel Tigh, Captain Apollo, Lieutenant Starbuck."
I think what they are doing is mixing Colonial Navy and Colonial Marines together without doing much to differentiate them.
Petty Officer (navy) / Private or Corporal (marine)
Chief Petty Officer (navy) / Seargent (marine)
Ensign (navy) / 2nd Lt (marine)
Lt (jg) (navy) / 1st Lt (marine)
Lt (navy) / captain (marine)
Lt Commander (navy) / Major (marine)
Commander (navy) / Lt Colonel (marine)
Captain (navy) / Colonel (marine)
Admiral (navy) / General (marine)
Of course that wouldn't explain why an old war hero and the commanding officer of a strike fighter carrier would only be a commander. That should be at least a Captain's billet.
Only on
Anderson is not in Atlantis... it doesn't suck.
Jonathanjk.com
What I would find much more interesting would be the DEATH of the Federation.
That would be interesting.
See "Andromeda".
On second thought, don't. Since the 2nd season it's pinned the suckosity meter.
I really feel for Scott Bakula, I absolutely loved Quantum Leap and it's really too bad that he ended up as the lead in Enterprise. Maybe they should do a "Quatum Leap / Enterprise". I think having Al walk in and explain to Sam that this was just a "bad leap" would do wonders to fix the premise of the entire show!
Now there was a good show. But the Andromeda chemistry just doesn't work in a Star Trek setting. I hated Voyager and DS9. Enterprise got boring after they cast just kept searching for the Xindi.
Mercy was given to me by Christ...I must give the same to others.
http://www.trektoday.com/news/180105_02.shtml
That was linked in the previous Slashdot article, Star Trek: Enterprise' Cancelled? and instead of the 'Startrek cast to be fired in March' article it has the producers rebuttal that Enterprise being cancelled is just a rumor. Personally, I'll take their word for it over some anonymous guy on the internet anyday.
There's an official Marina Sirtis fan website.
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
I agree. And think that BSG taking on new curse words is *FRACKING* great. I haven't watched much SG1, but didn't they do the same thing?
I can think of a few times when it's worked nicely (and many when it hasn't, of course). Two really GOOD time travel stories in the Trek world that jump to mind are DS9's Trials and Tribblations and TNG's Yesterday's Enterprise. Trials and Tribblations was definitely not designed to be a serious episode and yes, time travel was definitely a plot device, but was also the point of the episode. TNG's Yesterday's Enterprise used time travel effectively, I think. Rather than a cheap plot device with a big red "reset button" at the end, there were actual consequences related to the time travel that came into play in later episodes, so it wasn't just forgotten. In these cases, I think the writers did an outstanding job on creating unique time travel episodes.
It is a Rod Stewart reject. Check the first track of the Patch Adams soundtrack.
Why? The Dynasty is over, most of the ST:OS actors have distanced themselves greatly from it, or are dead (doohan, Kelley). I thought it was a milestone when Shattener took the role of a lawyer on that prime time show hes on now.
Of course you can look at the Failed attempts Frakes has made with the franchise, directing both the Insurrection and First Contact films, the first of which publically was a horrible flop of a movie. So I guess Frakes needs some money or something, who knows.
And Sirtis?
Well she hasnt amounted to much in the film industry , save her TNG roles, and the memorable Gargoyles cartoon (Didnt frakes do a voice on that too, isnt that even scarier?)
"God of Rock, thank you for this chance to kick ass. "
Why is Six helping Baltar?
She's not. She's manipulating him. And he's either too stupid to see it, or he just doesn't care. (No wait. . . He thinks she's just a figment of his guilty imagination. That falls into the 'stupid' category.)
As for things blowing up. . . Unfortunately, there is a shortage of SF shows of any kind, with or without stuff blowing up. Enterprise, SG-1, Atlantis and Galactica are just about it. Oh, and there's Andromeda, but I don't really have to count that, do I? (Please tell me I don't!)
I think my favorite series of all time was Babylon-5. It had a lot of the well-developed characters and complex (sometimes downright convoluted) plots that challenged the viewer. But Battlestar Galactica seems like a cheap and somewhat clueless rip-off of B-5. It's like somebody copied all the superficial elements (right down to the officers' uniforms), but forgot that the story ought to make some kind of sense.
And, as somebody else pointed out. . . Galactica is so relentlessly dark. Is that really necessary?
Obviously you will watch any piece of garbage they spoon-feed you has long as it has the prefix "Star Trek" attached. Me, I'm one of those weirdos who likes good science fiction.
From episode one of Enterprise I had a bad taste in my mouth. It's a nice prequel concept, but it doesn't work at all.
Plus, the theme song sucks, but I digress.
Bakula is a great actor, but just doesn't cut it in his role. And Star Trek really doesn't need a prequel - it needs something fresh, to let us know what is happening NOW, between the latest movie and the latest tv episode, something we haven't experienced yet.
Either way, it sounds as if they are going to go out in a blaze of glory - bring in some popular names, but it wont save them. It'll just be a grandiose ending rather than a quick, quiet death.
Space 1999, Where is Commander Keonig when we need him. Martin Landau at his finest. =)
"God of Rock, thank you for this chance to kick ass. "
This show has sucked since day one. When a Federation captain brings his *dog* to the surface of an unknown world, I have to change the channel. Every episode of this show that has aired since Firefly was cancelled is like a slap in the face to anyone who likes sci-fi tv.
I'm a modestly well-read guy, but ...what the ever-lovin' hell does "Galactica" have to do with Vernor Vinge?
That point aside, I think you're mistaken. In my opinion, if it's a combination of anything, it's a combination of a very few elements of the original "Galactica" premise, "Black Hawk Down," and 9/11.
though it was still a pretty bad film. Why did I waste all those hours watching 'em. sigh. Clearly ST fans are insane masochists. We keep going to the films expecting them not to suck and keep being disappointed. And we don't even have any really *good* films to base our assumption on... unlike those pore SW fans...
Hey Enterprise writers, could you take a look down. That thing swiming below you, that is a shark. You are in the air because you are jumping it. Now take a look behind you. See those other 15 sharks, you jumped them as well.
I used to love Enterprise, but time travel and special guest apperances always get out of hand. Though the episode with the Borg even though that was technically a special guest appearance was great.
Wait, I've got it! We'll cast Kevin Sorbo as the captain!
Man, this is gonna *rock.*
Raptor
"Procrastination is great. It gives me a lot more time to do things that I'm never going to do."
"Trek is, and has been, about the future"
No, trek is about the past. Specifically, the technocratic science-utopia ideals of the 1950s, the emerging civil rights movement of the 1960s, the 1980s liberal ideal of an greed-free moneyless society so utterly purged of "isms" that they've become inconcievable.
SF has always been about the present day as seen through a distorting lens. Trek was no exception.
And then, it painted itself into a corner. Typical left-utopia problem: nowhere to go, nothing to do, no hope of rising above equality except in science, arts, or the military. Effectively Trek disproved itsself. The only society-changing message it can send anymore is "avoid this".
They tried to keep it running on momentum, but Trek without a message, without reflections of reality, is just a dull and dated SF show.
RIP
As an experiment in masochism, I actually have watched most of the Enterprise episodes... considered stopping a few times, especially after the Lost In Space-esque ending to the Xindi conflict (yes you saved your planet, now suprise, it's alien Nazis!)
However, the last couple episodes have done the coolest thing that scifi can do: using the background of future technologies / space travel / odd scientific scenarios, explore how people react, explore ethical dilemnas, try to explore thought processes that we simply don't have right now.
If they keep this up, Enterprise will become an interesting, quality show.
And let die what shall die.
I always said Babylon 5 was just one big space drama. And I loved it. If BG is similar, I'm all for giving it a chance...
-Valiss
No attempt to save a series is complete without the inclusion of Ted McGinley. Untill McGinley is on the show; the producers are only making a half-hearted effort to save it.
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
you misspelled "fat bastard" "flat character"
Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious
> if you tuned out during the first 3 seasons, you
.
>should tune in and give it a shot).
And just how are we supposed to do that???
Of course it has a small audience--the stubborn and gleeful choice of UPN for the program is just another round of spite over being cut by the big 3 over thirty years ago.
The problem is that UPN just doesn't reach many households. I *can't* get it unless I switch from satellite to cable. Large portions of the country can't get it. But they sure got their dig in by keeping it for themselves . .
hawk
"Captain . . . I sense [clutches head] a lousy episode" :)
hawk
Kirk is modern - reform. Spock is the Hassid, who's turned his back on the Yeshiva for the military.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Thanks for stopping by, Ann Coulter.
Will the season end with Troi being offered to take the Enterprise for a spin at the helm? :)
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
Let's get this flame war going!
Who would win in a fight between the Battlestar Galactica (circa 2005) and the TNG Enterprise (not the one from the future, though)?
Hint: The answer is not emacs.
Keep your friends close.
Keep your enemies in a little jar on your desk.
B5.
How can you talk progressive and not think only of b5? B5 had arcs planned in advance and that show up slowly over YEARS. A man had a vision and went with it. (for the most part)
B5 wasnt suppose to be impossible because a show that people couldnt just watch whenever they wanted could never make it. If there is another Sience Fiction US show that did that since the 70s,i dont know what show that was.
That's one of the original series beauties is that it's open to a range of interpretations. Great liberal western in space? Or Eisenhower-era imperialist western in space?
I have no idea about the Jewish theatre, but I think the series mostyly falls on the side of reform, certainly by using strong black female characters in a standard TV. At least, this is Uhura's viewpoint.
But, whatever it's foundations, the original succeeds through interaction of character,particularly the three, McCoy, Spock & Kirk. I always figured McCoy was the better half of Kirk, the humanist conscience as it were.He is at least as important as Spock, if not more, in the first generation. How does he fit in your interpretation?
As Star Trek morphed into Joseph Campbell-ish bollox and franchise hell, McCoy tended to drop out. Oh, humour and character, so elusive yet so important. Watching ST: NG, I realised how well the original cast balanced each other and how the quality of the writing - maybe not the plots or speicial effects - would never be the same again.
Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious
Outside of Trek, Quest for Fire came closest here - there was a good attempt with Mother, Jugs and Speed, but Raquel Welch had to do two of the three parts.
BTW. Isn't MJS due for a re-make with Tom Hanks and Lucy Liu?
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Did "retarded Data" remind anyone else of Sling Blade?
"I sure do like them positronic matrices 'n mustard, ummm,huh!"
"Oh, it's hard to make TV that isn't purely derivative crap" is not an excuse. In general, "it's hard" is never an excuse. While Trek fans were whining about how hard it is to make some episodes that aren't repetitive junk, Firefly was out there actually doing it. Imagine that.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
...really fucking stupid.
Can't come up with a good show idea, plot, or good writing? Leech off of a show that did -- and explain the serious problems with implementing your leeching via bad ideas, bad plots and bad writing.
(Shit, that sounds like the software industry.)
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
B. Galatica - cardboard characters - predictible plots. Not funny nor tragic.
For war plots in space, I prefer "Space: Above and Beyond", a grittier and rawer view with some emotional power.
Firefly had unusually interesting characters and setting which MADE the show. However, it's stil not as interesting as "Blakes' 7" where you're never quite sure what each character will do, how far they will go. The only TV show that totally surprised me with its ending.
I'm a modestly well-read guy, but ...what the ever-lovin' hell does "Galactica" have to do with Vernor Vinge?
AI attacks a human fleet by compromising its network and subverting its computers -- Battlestar Galactica or Fire Upon the Deep? It's easy to forget, amid the slew of Vinge immitators, that the introduction of cyberpunk tropes into old-fashioned space opera was revolutionary in 1992.
Les Miserables Volume 1 now up with my reading of
AI attacks a human fleet by compromising its network and subverting its computers -- Battlestar Galactica or Fire Upon the Deep?
"A rag-tag band of locals come together to fight oppression by a ruthless foreign power -- the American Revolution or Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo?"
If you think that "Battlestar Galactica" and "A Fire Upon the Deep" are even superficially similar, then you either haven't seen the TV show or you haven't read the book.
I use the first click of Fwd on the TiVo remote to play it back at 3x speed without sound and with captions displayed, then sing it myself at high speed in a chipmunk voice (two octaves higher), but only after the first stanza, "It's been a long road".
If you have TiVo, try it next time. It's fun! (You may want to try speeding up a sample of it on your computer first to get a feel for what it should sound like.)
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Wait, I thought the OP was talking about "Frame of Mind", which didn't involve Romulans at all, and I thought was pretty damn good.
--grendel drago
This is surely the best rationalization I've heard yet of the weird rankings. Better than some of the other contrived explanations in this thread. Great job.
:-D
I mean they are all contrived, so no disrespect to anyone
I love how BSG thread-jacks every discussion about sci-fi now. I think that is a true testament to it's potential.
Read Heinlein's 1953 Revolt in 2100, now more than ever.
Look, any time someone complains that doing something is too hard, they're really just saying that they're incompetent. Whining about it isn't an answer. Babylon 5 did a self-consistent time travel plot without turning it into a big pile of confusion.
Random people on the internet have commented on ways to fix Trek; it is a tribute to the incompetence of the show's producers that they are unable to match the cleverness of some unpaid guy in his pajamas. (I can't speak for seasons 3 and 4 of ENT, as I haven't seen 'em. But hell, the average TNG ep was light years behind the average B5 ep.)
The reason I, like so many other people, rag on Trek is because it displaces everything else. As Justin Rye said, "I remember the days (up until about 1985) when the BBC used to produce SF, as opposed to kiddy fantasy spoofs or half-hearted technothrillers. This will never happen again while they can get hot and cold running Roddenberry." How much equally worthy SF (and let's be clear that Trek itself is rarely SF, with its vague and inexplicable pseudoscience) has been forced off television because Trek is known, Trek is safe.
I may have to watch newer Enterprise, but unless it's really fucking amazing, I'm standing by my original position.
Trek Must Die.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Try Babylon 5. It's dark in places, but on the whole the plot is pretty darn uplifting once you get to the end. Yes, Earthgov is taken over by a sinister xenophobic junta with little regard for civilian life, but the good guys are our viewpoint characters, and hops springs eternal.
Except for Londo. Londo is cursed. So sad.
And most people cry at the last episode. But they're happy tears.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
The problem with the wraith is that they feed like vampire (only sucking life force directly with their hand instead of sucking blood), look like vampire (pale skin and way more than two pointy and elongated teeth*) but they ain't got the class of vampires (they've got arrogance and mannerisms but that's it) or their power (except that they are stronger and more resilient than human, they still can't transform into bats, manipulate weak minds or rise from the dead once killed though).
Let's face it, wraith are vampires that can go into the sun but are neutered by the fact that S:A is Sci-Fi and not fantasy.
Sheppard is a CC of O'neil but not too bad a copy (with a sometime annoying style) and different enough to be interesting.
McKay is a poor replacement for Carter but seems to be evolving (like when he want to go help Sheppard with the lone survivor of the wraith ship and when he keeps his wits about him when he faces death with the nanite plague).
Teyla is a poor replacement for Teal'c so far as the token alien, but at least she smiles more
As for Weir, while I grew to like her new self I must say that I liked her old self (at the end of SG1's last season) better.
Still, I rather like Atlantis overall and am eager to see how it will grow in the next seasons (and second part of season one which I haven't seen yet).
* Why do they have teeth like carnivores? Heck, why do they have teeth at all?
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
KHANNNNNNN!..
insert witty comment here
Gamma correction?? :)
Gamma correction resulted in showing semi-horizontal lines and a washed out image. I.e. showing exactly how shot the monitor was.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
That was my holiday gift. A friend sent me a mound of episodes of Enterprise. So I watched.
.
Season four sucked-ass. --It was well produced and engaging, but the underlying message was just plain ASS. --Too much thinly veiled propaganda and apologism for torture and totally unnecessary bad moral decisions. -It's like Hollywood was given a mandate to validate evil. Enterprise even did an episode which was almost a scene for scene duplicate of an 'ALIAS' episode, (Now THERE'S a shitty program!), where the straw-man set-up had the 'Good Guys' really, really trying, (honest!), to take every other course of action other than torture, to the extent of simulating a fake reality with all the bells and whistles in order to trick a victim into giving up the 'vital' information. --They built a frickin' simulated space ship on hydrolics and a fake star-field out the windows in Enterprise. (In the 'ALIAS' episode, they built a fake Russian hotel inside a sound stage). --All designed to frustrate the viewer into crying, "Oh for fuck's sake! Just start cutting his fingers off!" (In the ALIAS episode, the George Bush look-alike playing the main character's father grabbed the victim and beat him to death, brought him back using one of those, "Clear!" heart-stimulators and told him he'd keep repeating the process until the victim gave up the 'vital' information. Fucking disgusting bullshit manipulative crap. (And let's not forget that ALIAS is the show which sent job applications through the roof at the CIA. --For which the dumb cunt who plays the main character in ALIAS is also doing recruitment videos. Gee! It's sure nice to know that next wave of U.S. spies were sucking up the bullshit propaganda and moral messages from ALIAS. Awesome! Where characters joke about being sociopathic, where there's a 'legitimized' torture scene in 80% of the episodes, and where they tell us, "It's an act of love to lie to your friends.") GAAAAH that show is EVIL.
News Flash: There is NEVER any 'information' which one needs to collect from a captive. That's all a total TV fiction. I'm serious. All anybody knows about it is what they grew up watching on television cop shows and spy movies. But in a battlefield situation, it simply doesn't happen. --Witness torture in Iraq; was that about gathering intel? No. It was about humiliation for the sake of humiliation. At the end of that naked pyramid, do you think the victims (who were almost certainly not even enemy combatants; the Red Cross determined that more than 70% of the military arrests in Iraq were arbitrary and needless acts of fear on the part of the occupying forces); bud were they asked to give up their vital information? Of course not! The whole, "Spy v.s. Spy" nonsense drama perpetuated through our culture by Hollywood is just that. In a situation like Iraq, intel is simply not an issue. You bomb and blow people away, and you do it to anybody who has the 'wrong' color skin. That's what Iraq is about. No intel is required. You don't need information about 'critical troop movements' or 'The Secret Code' or 'The Location of the Hidden Base'. Or nonexistent WMDs. That's all total bullshit. --You don't need any intel in order to maintain confusion and chaos so that arms sales may flow and the world can be distracted from the real crisis which the elite want a world government in place to deal with. Torture has NO good excuse. Period.
In Iraq, torture is about guards feeding/getting off on human misery. That's it. There is no other excuse. --It's about down-grading the awareness level of the human race, accessing the dark power-lust which lies dormant in all humans, getting as many people on that band-wagon as possible, doing it through these stupid television shows in a deliberate attempt to send humanity down that slippery slope so that we all turn into psychotic fuck-heads suitable for continuing the flow of dark emotional energy to our alien cattle herder masters.
-ahem-
But anyway. .
Th
Now that is absolutly fal...
(drool)
What was I talking about?
Warning, knife is sharp. Please keep out of children.
>But Battlestar Galactica seems like a cheap and
>somewhat clueless rip-off of B-5.
Galactica is absolutely nothing like B5. For starters, the plots are entirely different. B5 was about a space station and the long buildup to a great war. Galactica is about a fleet of ships fleeing the overnight destruction of almost the entire human race. The characters on Galactica are nothing like the characters on B5. The sets are vastly superior on Galactica, as is the dialog and the acting. There were two great actors on B5 (Peter Jurasik and Andreas Katsulas), a couple of skilled actors (Mira Furlan, Stephen Furst), and a whole bunch of people who'd have trouble coping on a daytime soap. Even the bit players on Galactica are better actors than that, and all of the major characters are being portrayed by actors at least as skilled as Furlan and Furst. I'd argue that almost half a dozen of them are as good as Jurasik and maybe even Katsulas, including Olmos, McDonnell, James Callis, Michael Hogan and (surprisingly) Tricia Helfer. Helfer may be fairly new to acting and got her start as a model for Victoria's Secret, but it's clear from her performance on this program that she has a lot going on besides an incredible body.
>It's like somebody copied all the superficial elements
>(right down to the officers' uniforms), but forgot that
>the story ought to make some kind of sense.
I'm still trying to figure out what "elements" were "copied" from Babylon 5, because I've seen every episode of B5 at least twice, and there's nothing remotely similar on Galactica. The models don't look anything like those on B5, the sets aren't similar, the costumes aren't particularly similar (and civilian wardrobes are completely different), the Cylons are nothing like any of the races on B5, etc. etc. etc. And the story makes perfect sense to me and to millions of other viewers, so I'm not sure what you're going on about there, either.
>And, as somebody else pointed out. . . Galactica is so
>relentlessly dark. Is that really necessary?
Well, the characters are survivors of a holocaust that's wiped out 12 worlds and all but about 50,000 members of the human race. They are on the run from genocidal robots who want to see them all dead. Robots they themselves had created. They're short on food, water and ammunition, among other things. And they know they probably have spies in their midst. So yeah, I'd say it's really necessary that the show be a little bit dark.
But if you want something lighter, watch DVD's of the original Galactica where, after seeing their 12 colonies and billions of souls wiped out of existence by the Cylons, the survivors flee to casino planet and are serenaded by multi-mouthed soul sisters at an interstellar disco. It doesn't get any lighter than that.
That's beautiful man. just beautiful *sob*
If they want to get more ratings, why not do like all the other ST series, and play them on local TV stations! Enterprise is not enough of a reason for me to get a satalite dish, and none of my cable stations (which played every other series) shows Enterprise! I watched the premier at a friends house, but I'm not paying any extra money just for startrek! Hell, the only reason I'm paying for cable at all is that DSL isn't available in my town yet!
The governments is Freelancer are more like the one shown on Firefly.
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
Three is always an unstable relationship and difficult to plot. It's probably best centred around strict hierarchies, as in Star Trek.
As to Tom Hanks...I hope not. He's my least favourite actor. MJS isn't the greatest film ever made but I do remember it with warmth. The safety-belt factor seems to be getting worse not better so that most remakes lose any of the spark that the original usually had.
Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious