Andromeda And Mutant X Cancelled

88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by LostCluster · 2004-04-27 19:39 · Score: 5, Interesting

In TV-land, 100 is a magic number for a weekly series. When you hit 100 episodes, you have enough episodes to go 5-a-week and last 20 weeks without a repeat. That's good enough to survive on cable or syndication with a nearly infinite life. Lesser series have done it, but you've gotta be really deep to not risk burn-out.

So, Andromida stopping at 88 is kinda an ugly number to get caught at. Sci-Fi might have an interest in funding a series-ending run of about 13 episodes to run as an exclusive event, and therefore give the show some life in daily reruns. 88 with an abrupt-stop ending just isn't that valuable for reruns in comparision.

Of course, that depends on Sci-Fi being able to see the value in rerun rights. If the library of Fireworks assets including the 88 existing episodes get sold to a party that's not interested in letting Sci-Fi have the show on a 5-a-week daytime basis at a reasonable price... then there's no point in doing the deal.

The Sci-Fi saves the show thread is a longshot, but it could happen so it can't be ignored. The show's not dead yet, but it's taken a usually-fatal blow.

Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by Chalybeous · 2004-04-27 20:17 · Score: 5, Interesting

Shows have survived in syndication with less. There were, if I remember right, 79 episodes of Star Trek (plus the original pilot, which remained unaired til the mid-1990s, although it was released on video around 1984-85) when it went into syndication.
That said - the original Star Trek was a good series. I've seen some Andromeda, and while it looked okay and had the occasional interesting moment (not to mention some impressive visuals and sets - I remember seeing a giant observation deck with a diplomatic function going on), it never hooked me. Probably part of it was that I can't stand Kevin Sorbo - although DeepWater Black's Gordon Michael Wolvett was a welcome addition to the cast, and Lexa Doig is reasonably easy on the eye.

No offence to those who like Andromeda, but I think it's about time people stopped cashing in on Gene Roddenberry's name just to get ratings. (modern Trek's high point was DS9 - since then, it's just been flogging a dead franchise!)

DISCLAIMER: The above views of TV shows are just my opinion. Yours may vary. Remember, opinions are like assholes - kindly stop shoving yours in my face ;-)

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"It is dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue." -- Zork
Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by TastyWords · 2004-04-27 20:23 · Score: 1, Offtopic

88 happens to be the number of keys on a piano (there was a criminal in Dick Tracy known as 88 Keyes) and the number of constellations.

Back to the subject

Here's the url for a DejaGoogle discussion about what's really going on (you might have to scroll to the top of the messages to see the entire thread.
Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by TastyWords · 2004-04-27 20:33 · Score: 2, Informative

According to Episodes Guide (an address worth memorizing - you won't need need a bookmark for it), there were seventy-nine articles not including the pilot. The pilot is labelled "UNAIRED".
Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by Babbster · 2004-04-27 21:55 · Score: 4, Insightful

Actually, 100 is the magic number for "big money" syndication. There are many (many) TV shows in perpetual rerun land nowadays because there are so many channels with relatively little content. Given the number of awful movies that Sci-Fi Channel trots out on a regular basis, they'll probably have Andromeda in reruns for the duration.
Finally, I would note that the idea of Sci-Fi funding enough episodes just to round out to 100 is just silly. After all, they're the only network that's likely to be interested in rerunning Andromeda ANYWAY, so why would they want to make the property more valuable (and thus more costly) unless they truly think that making new episodes is a profitable proposition (as they did with SG-1)?
Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by cybergrue · 2004-04-27 23:25 · Score: 1

Odd, I heard the same thing about 65 eps, which is 13 weeks at 5 eps per week. 13 weeks is quarter of a year, so would seem to fit beter in to yearly schedules then 20 weeks.
Sad, I liked Andromina. It was one of my guilty pleasues watching it.
Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by MadChicken · 2004-04-28 00:16 · Score: 1, Funny

Lest we forget that Fred Flintstone was accused of being the notorious piano thief "88-fingers Louie"...

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SYS 64738 NO CARRIER
Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by TheWanderingHermit · 2004-04-28 00:48 · Score: 4, Informative

No offence to those who like Andromeda, but I think it's about time people stopped cashing in on Gene Roddenberry's name just to get ratings.

Actually, Andromeda did have a basis in Roddenberry's work -- at least more so than Earth:Final Conflict did (unless I missed something). The original idea was a show called "Genesis II" about a man named Dylan Hunt who was put in some kind of suspension for an experiment, and found by a group called Pax something like 150 years later, after Earth had been through bad events and balkanized. He and the Pax teams would use subshuttles to get to all the different city-states that had grown up after a technological and civil collapse. The intent was to give the characters access to many different cultures, like the Enterprise had in Trek, and let us watch as Pax and Dylan rebuilt society. There was another pilot, very similar, called "Earth II" (I think), that, again, had Dylan Hunt sleep for a long time (this time on a space station), before returning to a balkanized Earth to help rebuild civilization.
Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by TheWanderingHermit · 2004-04-28 00:53 · Score: 1

Oh, and before anyone tries to get picky, NO, it was not the same "Earth II" that Speilberg was behind several years ago -- about colonizing another planet.
Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by the_Bionic_lemming · 2004-04-28 01:24 · Score: 2, Informative

The pilot is labelled "UNAIRED".

They need to change the "unaired" as the Pilot was aired about ten - fifteen years ago on live TV during one of the anniversaries.

technically - parts of the pilot were used in a rare two part episode of star trek where the pilot profided background for Spocks defence trial - Also - Captain Pike - the pilot commander was given a homage in Futurama as well.

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_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by wagemonkey · 2004-04-28 01:42 · Score: 1

Three Dylan Hunts in different forms of suspended animation might be considered a bit much. I've even seen all three and IMHO Andromeda is the pick of the bunch, it's way better than Tremors for instance...
The other two refrerred to are Genesis II and Planet Earth.
Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by Chalybeous · 2004-04-28 02:43 · Score: 4, Interesting

There's a lot of stuff in Roddenberry's notes, and I acknowledge that Andromeda was drawn from there. But basically, the Andromeda we have now was made from those notes and updated by other people, and Gene's name was only used as a crowd-puller (i.e. brand recognition for Trekkies).

All I'm saying is, Gene's been dead for over a decade. Isn't it about time TV stopped making shows from his thirty year-old rough drafts? Strikes me as a combination of authorised plagarism (his widow and son are involved in it) and grave robbery...

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"It is dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue." -- Zork
Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by Chalybeous · 2004-04-28 02:47 · Score: 3, Informative

I don't know about its air status in the US, but "The Cage" was aired at least once on BBC2 in the early-to-mid-1990s (I have a feeling it was either 1991 or 1996, for the 25th or 30th anniversaries, but I could be wrong). I just chose not to say anything before you chimed in, in case someone decided to mod me "-1, Smartass" ;-)

For the uninitiated (and there probably aren't many on /.), Star Trek's second pilot (at the time, an unprecedented feat in TV) was called "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and aired as the third episode of the first season. This is why the uniforms, consoles and equipment (and some of the sets) don't match up - although the sets went through a near-constant process of upgrading, so there's a clear but gradual change between "The Man Trap" (the first regular episode) and, say, "Balance of Terror".

OK, I just earned myself 2D10+5 geek points for that little FYI...

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"It is dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue." -- Zork
Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by TheWanderingHermit · 2004-04-28 02:56 · Score: 1

What's even worse is that they all stink.

It's also interesting that, if you read or hear other people's comments, it seems like Roddenberry wasn't the "all seeing genius" many make him out to be today. Perhaps he just got lucky with Trek by getting good writers and other talented staff.

Genesis II was a good idea, but from what I remember (including seeing it re-run at times), he developed the concept by basically copying Trek, but re-locating it. Planet Earth was close to the same story.

I agree, it would be nice to let him rest in peace. I know I couldn't stand another show as horrid as Earth:Final Conflict. I remember watching that show and wondering where it was going (and being intrigued) during the 1st season, but feeling like it lost its direction after that. It was either the 2nd or 3rd season where almost every episode was the same -- there's some dark Tailon plot hatched by the leader (forgot his name) that they uncover in time to save mankind. I never even bothered to see how the cliffhanger with the human-pregnant-with-a-Tailon (or whatever) turned out -- by that time I just didn't care about the characters and felt it had gotten to convoluted.
Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by Fishstick · 2004-04-28 03:16 · Score: 1

>Remember, opinions are like assholes - kindly stop shoving yours in my face ;-)

Heh, that's a good one. I've heard that "opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one", but that's a nice visual. ;-)

Might just qualify as a new sig if can be made short enough;

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Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by babbage · 2004-04-28 04:09 · Score: 1

Shows have survived in syndication with less. There were, if I remember right, 79 episodes of Star Trek

Or let's look at really classic television. Pretty much everybody has seen all the old reruns of The Honeymooners , but the show was only on the air for 39 episodes in the 1955-1956 season. It may seem like way more than that, but that's really it. And yet that show -- and I Love Lucy -- will live on in re-runs forever and ever.
Of course, the real difference between shows like The Honeymooners & I Love Lucy on one hand, and Andreomeda & Mutant X on the other, is that the former are classic & timeless, while the latter are boring crap. By and large. The number of episodes is only part of the equation: a good show can be syndicated forever (and, as a side effect, a good show will have a long initial run), but a bad show won't make it in reruns and will rarely survive long enough to build up a catalog anyway.
The interesting recent twist is that now, with the affirmation of strong DVD sales, dead shows are able to get a second chance at a new life. This has never really happened before. There have been spinoffs (all the Trek variants) and remakes (all the Twilight Zone revivals), but I can't think of many cases before now where a show that had been cancelled & disbanded was brought back on the air, as is supposedly happening now with shows like Family Guy and Futurama. The closest I can think of is when cult shows like The Critic or TV Nation were dropped from their first network but picked up by a smaller one, but at least in these two cases the shows didn't do any better the second time around. It'll be interesting to see where that trend goes in the future, as more shows are put on to DVD and audiences get a second chance to see things they ignored the first time around.

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DO NOT LEAVE IT IS NOT REAL
Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by Chalybeous · 2004-04-28 04:32 · Score: 1

I can't think of many cases before now where a show that had been cancelled & disbanded was brought back on the air, as is supposedly happening now with shows like Family Guy and Futurama.

The notable exception being, again, Star Trek. Well, almost. There was a short-lived animated version in the 1970s, and they almost made it back to TV in the original format several times, most notably Star Trek: Phase II, which was cancelled just before the first day of filming. (The script and sets were subsequently reworked for use in "Star Trek: The Motion Picture", and some of the new cast were retained - although new models, props, uniforms etc. had to be fabricated.)

Y'know, I'm supposed to be an ex-Trekkie. I guess it's impossible to unlearn all this trivia...

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"It is dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue." -- Zork
Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by Safety+Cap · 2004-04-28 06:19 · Score: 1

All I'm saying is, Gene's been dead for over a decade. Isn't it about time TV stopped making shows from his thirty year-old rough drafts?
No way. If the greatest book-to-screen SciFi author ever can keep on being used over 20 years after his death, you can bet your boots that they'll keep using the "Great Bird 'o de Galaxy" until those who grew up with ST:TOG are all taking dirt naps.

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Yeah, right.
Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 07:04 · Score: 0

Who cares! Did anyone even watch these awful shows? Kevin Sorbo 4 lyfe
Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by jafac · 2004-04-28 07:08 · Score: 1

Cowboy Bebop has survived for like 2 years on Cartoon Network with only 24 episodes.

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Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by ACPosterChild · 2004-04-28 07:24 · Score: 1

I swear I remember seeing the pilot (maybe it was just the 2nd episode, but I think it was both) in the early-mid 80's. Even though I was only ~10, I remember being freaked out by Pike.

I *know* I saw both of them again in the 90's.
Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by fermion · 2004-04-28 12:15 · Score: 1

It seems to me that the minimum number of episodes for syndications has increased over the past 20or 30 years. Now it seems important for a show to have 100 eps or about 5 seasons. In the 70's early 80's I seem to recall a number of shows that had 50-75 eps being stripped. Star Trek is one example. B.J and the bear is another. Of course the networks produced enough content so shows tended to be syndicated after the fact to local independents, which made the whole thing much more interesting.
I wonder how much a show like andromeda will make. It seems to be that the value is syndication prior to the end of the run, as to squeeze out money and build value. Once a run has ended, it seems that shows now quickly move to DVD, thus reduceing the value for syndication.
One this about this 100 episode things in the requirement it puts on shows. A final useless season with a stupid ending.

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Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by Anonymous+Villain · 2004-04-28 13:47 · Score: 1

Andromeda and Mutant X are probably better than the Honeymooners. This isn't a very good comparison. Mutant X and Andromeda are Scifi and Honeymooners is comedy. The Honeymooners is 30 to 40 years old and is filmed in black and white with much more primitive cameras and lighting. Mutant X and Andromeda have much better animation and color and lighting and special effects and have 40 to 50 years of technology improvements in cimematography. Mutant X and Andromeda are of much higher film and camera quality. To say that the Honeymooners is a classic and the Andromeda and Mutant X are not a classic is a falacy. For one they are products of two generations. Anyone who is normal would rather watch Mutant X and Andromeda because the genre is newer and the images are in color. No one wants to watch old black and white reruns no matter how appealing or funny? How many reruns of I Love Lucy can any normal person take before they are institutionalized? A better comparison would be a scifi show from the 50s such as Lost in Space with Mutant X and Andromeda. There is no comparison.

Comparing a comedy sitcom with a scifi show is not a valid comparison. Also Andromeda and Mutant X have more episodes to show for their popularity.

Comedies are much easier than Scifi. Making good Scifi is very difficult and much more expensive. There are very few excellent sci fi movies and fewer excellent Scifi shows. 90% of all sci fi shows are garbage. This can be seen in Space 1999 and Lexx and Dr. Who which is not famous for its special effects but for a campy style. In Scifi the quality is proportional to the budget. There are a lot of really bad episodes of Star Trek the Next Generation and Star Trek. Even the Star Trek movies were not always very good. You know the mantra even numbered Trek movies are good and odd numbered Star Trek Movies Suck. Aside from Star Trek II and Star Trek IV there is a big drop afterwards.

Another really bad scifi show is Lexx on the Sci Fi channel. There are several other bad Scifi TV shows. A good Scifi TV show can be a rarity. Farscape is very quirky and it has some bad episodes that are elevated by the performance of Ben Browder. A good actor can carry a subpar episode.

There are lots of B shows on the Sci Fi channel and there are few very Sci Fi shows that are a cut above and exemplify Star Wars quality. Star Wars is the movie that all sci fi shows aspire to and even the Star Wars sequels aspire to be Star Wars. Most of the newer Scifi programming has occurred within the past 10 years.

Mutant X and Andromeda are ok overall and have a much larger number of episodes. Mutant X and Andromeda are evolutionary TV shows that are much better than there predessors such as Star Trek and some of the Star Trek the Next Generation episodes or even Earth Final Conflict. At least Andromeda never had the Garbage haulers of Voyager or Commander Janeway and never sank to the depths of Star Trek Voyager.

As with everything there is a yin and yang. Most Scifi shows have some really bad episodes and average episodes and fewer great episodes. That is why Andromeda and Mutant X should be considered as classics. A lot of Sci Fi shows are unwatchable.
Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 14:42 · Score: 0

Heh. Someone else has to realize how funny your posts sounds- first, you say that E:FC was a downright "horrid" show- yet you watched it. Not just a few episodes here and there over the year... but the first three seasons! Enough to know the plot and end-of-season cliff hangers. Oh, everyone, it sucked- but I had nothing else better to do. ;P

besides, everyone should just go watch B5, ST:TOS and ST:TNG anyway. :)
Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by the_Bionic_lemming · 2004-04-28 15:20 · Score: 1

I don't know about its air status in the US, but "The Cage" was aired at least once on BBC2 in the early-to-mid-1990s (I have a feeling it was either 1991 or 1996, for the 25th or 30th anniversaries, but I could be wrong). I just chose not to say anything before you chimed in, in case someone decided to mod me "-1, Smartass" ;-)

and you get modded informative - and I'm left hanging.

go figure.

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_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by unitron · 2004-04-28 16:22 · Score: 1

Let's see, you placed The Honeymooners in the '60s (2004 - 40 = 1964) and Lost In Space in the '50s. This has not enhanced your credibility on the overall subject of television as seen in the U.S. over the previous approximately 56 years.

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Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by Anonymous+Villain · 2004-04-29 11:14 · Score: 1

And you must be Siskel or Ebert? The critic in the TV show The Critic. I don't think the date is the important part. Star Wars came out in 1978. Oops I mean 1977 but the date is not the point. The facts speak for themselves. The facts are the point.

The fact remains as valid a lot of Scifi is not up to the standards of Star Wars. Star Wars was a real path breaker that redefined the genre and gave it financial viability. There are a lot of really bad Scifi shows too. If you are such a TV expert you must have you missed the last episodes of Lexx or you must be a Space 1999 fanatic. Honorable mention can be given to the movie version of Wing Commander and the last 30 minutes of the Black Hole or 2001 which are almost unfathomable and don't make any sense because they are surreal and the movies never adequately explain the endings. 2001 the Movie helps sell 2001 the book. This also explains why the Black Hole bombed. There never will be another sequel to Disney's the Black Hole because Eisner would never allow it.

As brilliant as the Matrix was its sequels pale in comparison. The Matrix Revolutions was a disaster.
Re:88 and rough end is tough fate in TV biz... by unitron · 2004-04-29 17:20 · Score: 1

Apparently there was another Disney black hole and Eisner got in trouble for letting so much of Disney's money disappear into it ;-)
But seriously, your original post left me with the impression that you have judged some shows without the benefit of the perspective afforded by having been around during their first runs, i.e., you never saw them in their proper socio-historical (socio-chronological?) context. By way of example, I was around 13 or 14 when Star Trek and The Man From Uncle were new and my parents somewhere around the age which I am now. Because those shows were "of their time", they probably didn't seem nearly as lame to my folks back then as they seem to me now, although I'm sure Mom and Dad didn't consider them as "cool" and "(pre-VCR) must see" as did my geeky, nerdy little teen self.

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One could say ... by Walt+Dismal · 2004-04-27 19:40 · Score: 5, Funny

-- They're dead, Jim.

Re:One could say ... by cujo_1111 · 2004-04-27 19:48 · Score: 1

It's life, Jim, but not as we know it...

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If I point out that you are incorrect, making me a foe does not make you any more correct.
Re:One could say ... by mphase · 2004-04-27 19:49 · Score: 4, Funny

And so the Bad Shows were executed in the mannor most befitting virgins.

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vampirical
Re:One could say ... by LostCluster · 2004-04-27 19:53 · Score: 2, Funny

And so the Bad Shows were executed in the mannor most befitting virgins.

Hey, at least the 88 episodes aren't being sent to a far away planet where a young energy beam can become the only surviving fan other than somebody frozen for 1000 years.
Re:One could say ... by mphase · 2004-04-27 19:56 · Score: 2, Funny

Slashdot, the only place you can make a Futurama reference and then have it expounded upon.

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vampirical
Re:One could say ... by LostCluster · 2004-04-27 20:00 · Score: 4, Informative

Slashdot, the only place you can make a Futurama reference and then have it expounded upon.

Futurama lasted only 72 episodes, yet is still doing perfectly well in 5-a-week infinite reruns on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim. It is possible to survive with less than 100 episodes... but the show has to be detail-filed and good in general.
Re:One could say ... by Chalybeous · 2004-04-27 20:26 · Score: 1

Personally, I'm waiting for the obligatory fat sarcastic comic store guy/Simpsons reference.

"Worst. Episode. Ever!" in 5... 4... 3...

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"It is dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue." -- Zork
Re:One could say ... by Hungus · 2004-04-27 23:25 · Score: 1

We come in peace! (shoot to kill)

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Re:One could say ... by TheWanderingHermit · 2004-04-28 00:41 · Score: 2, Insightful

Yes, and, at least in Andromeda's case, it's a good thing (tm). I liked Andromeda when it first came out, but when they canned the lead writer because, as Sorbo put it, he created plots that were too subtle for most people to understand, I knew it was headed for trouble.

Then, then next season, the credits started with a line like "The universe can be a dangerous place." I almost shut it off right there, but wanted to give it a chance. I thought that season opener (where they rescue Becca and Tyr) was weak, but John DeLancie was on the next one, so I watched it. They took a character (DeLancie's), who had been defined as definitely evil and suddenly tried to make him only unpredictable. I've never watched another episode since.

That one jumped the shark long ago.
Re:One could say ... by red+floyd · 2004-04-28 02:05 · Score: 1

There's Klingons off the starboard bow.

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Re:One could say ... by xinit · 2004-04-28 02:15 · Score: 1

Detail-filled and good....

Andromeda and Mutant X...

Nope and nope.

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Re:One could say ... by Tackhead · 2004-04-28 02:23 · Score: 1

> There's Klingons off the starboard bow.
Scrape them off, Jim!
Re:One could say ... by tbannist · 2004-04-28 03:06 · Score: 2, Informative

That one jumped the shark long ago.

The exact episode was Ouroborus. They fired the head writer, dropped the character "Rev Bem", (actor Brent Stait chose to leave), threw out the character bible for Trance Gemini and didn't both to replace it with anything. Every episode after that one was pretty bad, it was often glaringly obvious that episodes that had originally been written to star another cast member had been rewritten to expand Sorbo's role.

Gordon Michael Woolvett and Laura Bertram were the highlights of the show and with what seems to be a dramatically reduced role in the series after Ouroborus and all touches of intelligence rooted out so Sorbo wouldn't feel dumb, there was no reason to continue watching the show.

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Fanatically anti-fanatical
Re:One could say ... by Mister+Transistor · 2004-04-28 04:42 · Score: 1

Acutally, they're only showing 4 a week. They aren't showing the Futurama/Family Guy reruns on Fridays, Saturdays or Sundays.

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Re:One could say ... by LostCluster · 2004-04-28 05:08 · Score: 1

Futurama just got installed on the Sunday lineup, so they're up to 5-a-week now.
Re:One could say ... by coaxial · 2004-04-28 06:46 · Score: 1

Futurama lasted only 72 episodes, yet is still doing perfectly well in 5-a-week infinite reruns on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim.

Yes, but that's CN. It runs 6 episode Fooly Cooly (aka FLCL) 4 times in row, then stops, and now is running it again. It's been running 26 episode Cowboy Bebop nonstop for almost 3 years now. Not to disparage these shows at all, they're all excellent animes, but CN can hardly be held up as an example of proper syndication runs.
Re:One could say ... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 07:27 · Score: 0

Assraped?
Re:One could say ... by stonecypher · 2004-04-28 20:20 · Score: 1

And surely that's not because Futurama is one of the greatest cartoons ever made, both visually and with respect to its content.

I mean, my mother hates the Simpsons, and even she cries at Jurassic Bark, and The Devil's Hands are Idle Playthings, Parasites Lost, The Why of Fry, The Luck of the Fryrish, Roswell that Ends Well, Leela's Homeworld, and The Sting. If you're talking about a show with 72 episodes of whom 8 - one in nine! - can make someone which blindly hates cartoons cry without knowing the underlying plot, then you're talking about something exceptional. I think you'd make your point a lot more successfully by revealing a mediocre show that survives on a syndication of 100 episodes.

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Re:One could say ... by n9hmg · 2004-04-28 22:18 · Score: 1

I hung on for quite a while, in the hopes that they'd regain quality. Running it on a shit network like WB, though, made it impossible to keep up with it anyway. After 2 or three unannounced schedule changes, I stopped keeping up with it and started looking for the reruns to catch up, then stopped trying.
What is it about these networks, that they think it makes sense to run overtime with a game, then join a first-run episode of a series "already in progress", or if the game ends early, start the show early? These same morons who think "he caught the ball, and ran to the left, then he ran straight, then he ran left again" or "the next guy is going to try to hit the ball" is riveting, and no piece of it must be missed, think a story, with a plot arc, is like background music... filler that you just turn off and on and interrupt as needed.
I started to use "water faucet" instead of "background music", but that lead to "My pain belongs to the divine...". Yeah, when they lost Rev Bem, it just sort of deflated. He must have been reading ahead in the scripts.
Re:One could say ... by RevAaron · 2004-04-29 05:30 · Score: 1

...or maybe your mom has some problems that we'll never understand. No offense, or anything. But I can't remember crying over any Simpsons or Futurama episode, or any other cartoon for that matter.

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on the other hand... by Vellmont · 2004-04-27 19:40 · Score: 4, Insightful

Science fiction fans may be dismayed to learn that "Mutant X" and "Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda" have been cancelled

Though fans of quality television will rejoice. Mutant X? It has to be one of the worst TV shows I've seen more than 5 minutes of in the last 10 years.

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AccountKiller

Re:on the other hand... by ericdano · 2004-04-27 19:47 · Score: 1

Mutant X yes, Andromeda had some very good episodes.

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I moderate therefore I rule!
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Re:on the other hand... by LostCluster · 2004-04-27 19:50 · Score: 2, Insightful

Action/Sci-Fi is a very expensive form of TV show due to the need for special effects. To do it cheap always results in looking bad...

Maybe CanWest is doing a good thing by putting FireWorks out of its misery rather than delivering sub-standard final seasons.
Re:on the other hand... by ericdano · 2004-04-27 19:58 · Score: 2, Interesting

Hence why a lot of good ANIME scifi is out there. Sol Bianca, Lost Universe, Captain Tyler, Macross, etc, etc.

It's sad, but Enterprise just blows. Andromeda was way better I thought.

--
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
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Re:on the other hand... by sTalking_Goat · 2004-04-27 20:19 · Score: 3, Interesting

"Mutant X" has a series total of three seasons and 66 episodes
That's 67 episodes (I'm fining them an extra one...) too many as far as I'm concerned. Andromeda was just barely watchable and only because I of Keith Hamilton Cobb's (Tyr Anasazi) overacting while he was still there. I tuned in to see just how much he would ham it up this week.
Mutant X on the other hand was unexcusably horrible on all levels.
Sci-Fi Channel must be kicking themselves in the ass. The passed on Firefly to get a show whose studio goes belly-up before they even air an original episode.

--
My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...
Re:on the other hand... by clickety6 · 2004-04-27 20:28 · Score: 4, Insightful

Action/Sci-Fi doesn't always need special effects. Sci-Fi isn't just laser guns and spaceships and giant sand worms and 3D holographic simulations. The trouble is, everybody wants to be Star Trek these days.

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----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
Re:on the other hand... by 91degrees · 2004-04-27 20:28 · Score: 1

Andromeda could have been good. Never quite got there though.
Re:on the other hand... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 20:35 · Score: 1

Au contraire, Sci-Fi *is* just laser guns, spaceships etc. SF, OTOH is a broader genre.
Re:on the other hand... by eyeye · 2004-04-27 20:55 · Score: 1

It had some good ones until the writers (I think) left - then it turned into total shit and I stopped watching.

Mutant X was shit from start to end though, it was pathetic. Even the concept was lame - they just tried to rip off the X Men.

*thinks of firefly and sobs while rocking backwards and forwards*

Bring back firefly you bastards!

--
Bush and Blair ate my sig!
Re:on the other hand... by Kwil · 2004-04-27 21:17 · Score: 1

Fair enough.
But that still doesn't explain why the scripts sucked.

--
That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze
Re:on the other hand... by Jonner · 2004-04-27 21:44 · Score: 1

I agree wholeheartedly. They both deserve to die.
Re:on the other hand... by JackJudge · 2004-04-27 21:51 · Score: 1

Andromeda was dross at the best of times, but of the harmless fluffy kind, until Kevin Sorbo got into jingoistic sabre-rattling mood and tried to turn the show into some patriotic poster-boy for newly avenging USA post 911.
Re:on the other hand... by Mycroft_VIII · 2004-04-27 22:47 · Score: 2, Informative

Actually rip-off is the wrong word, considering it started as a contract with Marvel comics.
My understanding is that some company involved in the first X-Man movie got a contract to do a tv series based on the x-man 'concept', and thinking they were going to get to do X-Men the tv series they got another company to buy in and help out. Well aparently the first contract (with Marvel) was such that that the first company got told by marvel they couldn't actually use the x-men or any specific marvel characters, just the basic concept and to use x and mutant in the title. well the third company was a bit disapointed to find out they weren't getting into what they thought and it only got worse till they decided to drop out and sue the company in the middle for misleading them, afaik thier suing Marvel as well. Fireworks is one of the companies, but I can't recall wich.
So in short it may be pathetic, but it's Official pathetic and not a rip off per se. (though I'm shure many viewers feel riped off)
The sad thing is this is likely to kill Andromeda off. I've only seen about 15 or so episodes, but thier at least average for tv. Frankly the only other decent s.f. type series on broadcast tv is SG1 which, while well done, has only minimal continuity and character developement from episode to episode. Whereas Andromeda seems to have a story arc to it.

Mycroft

--
https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
Re:on the other hand... by ericdano · 2004-04-27 23:17 · Score: 1

Indeed, Andromeda does have a story arc. Not sure about the 4th season, but the previous ones did. Man, and Tyr was the bomb. Loved episodes that featured him heavily. Great humor in his character.

--
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
Re:on the other hand... by TheSpoom · 2004-04-28 00:50 · Score: 2, Insightful

I own the first three comics of Marvel's Mutant X series and I think this TV series has single-handedly killed their value :^(

--
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
Re:on the other hand... by Cro+Magnon · 2004-04-28 00:57 · Score: 1

I agree that the last season of Mutant X sucked worse than the earlier seasons (which, themselves, sucked). My problem is, they won't replace it with anything better. They'll probably put on yet another (un)reality show in place of it. :(

--
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Re:on the other hand... by Your_Mom · 2004-04-28 01:38 · Score: 1

Isn't the show made in Canada? And isn't Sorbo Canadian?

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Objects in the blog are closer then they ap
Re:on the other hand... by RyuuzakiTetsuya · 2004-04-28 02:31 · Score: 1

WTF you talking about?

Kidou Senshi Gundam(eg: The original Gundam series) got canned in the middle of it's run!

--
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Re:on the other hand... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 03:08 · Score: 0

Lost Universe and Tyler are good for humor. Macross, well, the original is *rather* dated. No offense, but I find its quality just puts me off, and I liked it as a kid. :/ I haven't seen Sol Bianca or the later Macross series, so I can't say about those...(well, except Macross Plus and Macross II)

But - better than any of those is Crest of the Stars and Banner of the Stars. It isn't perfect - it can be a little slow to start, the translation's a little iffy in parts, the dub SUCKS ROCKS...but get past all that and you have what is in my mind the best sci fi series I've ever seen put to screen. Marvelous stuff. A fairly internally consistant universe (certainly much more so than Trek - not that that's difficult), enjoyable characters, nice ship and character designs, and an engrossing plot.

Yes, it's one of my favorite series. :)
Re:on the other hand... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 03:35 · Score: 0

As I recall, they suddenly stopped airing Mobile Suit Gundam on 9/11. I still get ticked off thinking about it. The series had just gotten to the most interesting part, and then it was just pulled with no warning or explanation, leaving me to only assume that it was considered "poor taste" to air a show about a war right after such a tragedy. I disagree.

They also skipped the next episode of Cowboy Bebop (this was the first run of the show on Cartoon Network), in which a "mad bomber" destroys several buildings, including twin towers. Thankfully, they came to their senses later and didn't skip it in later runs. Otherwise, they might have stopped showing the episode that features Space Shuttle Columbia after that tragedy.

Guess what, folks. Tragedy and disaster are a large part of the world we live in. That's exactly why so much of our art includes it. It's how we as people cope with all the bad stuff we're exposed to. Let's not turn our backs on it just because it might make someone uncomfortable!

(Wow. I didn't know I even needed to get that off my chest. Sorry for the off-topic rant, folks.)
Re:on the other hand... by ogre57 · 2004-04-28 03:40 · Score: 1

Show, yes. Iirc he's from Minnesota.
Re:on the other hand... by smacktits · 2004-04-28 03:52 · Score: 1

Action/Sci-Fi is a very expensive form of TV show due to the need for special effects. To do it cheap always results in looking bad...
You've obviously never watched Blake's 7 then...
Re:on the other hand... by Glytch · 2004-04-28 04:02 · Score: 1

Give Macross Zero a chance. It's an OVA prequel series, with 3 parts done and (I think) 3 more to go, so far just in fansub form. It's set just a few years after the SDF1 crashess on Earth, a few years before it's been repaired and relaunched. There's a huge world war. It's about an ex-F14 UN pilot joining the first prototype Valkyrie squadron under the command of Roy Fokker, and it finally fixes the whole miserable continuity mess regarding what Protoculture really is. Not really for kids, though. A few mildly gruesome deaths (red splashes on the inside of a canopy before the fighter explodes, that sort of thing) and the obligatory Macross leading-female-character-singing-naked scene. Some CGI is a little cheesy, but there's an awesome, highly detailed slow-motion fighter-to-battroid transformation of Fokker's fighter in the first episode.

The recent Gundam Seed is pretty good sci-fi, too. Not at an Asimov level, and the main character is conveniently a genius at reprogramming/piloting mobile suits, but it deals with some pretty neat subjects like the ethics of genetic engineering, and prejudice against those with genetic advantages. I can definitely see a "genetic purity" terrorist group like Blue Cosmos starting up in real life if human genetic engineering ever becomes common.

I'm not sure if Last Exile qualifies as sci-fi (seems more of the Star Wars style fantasy that happens to be set in a hi-tech world), but it's great drama. Scrapped Princess pretends to be swords-and-sorcery fantasy at first, but within a few episodes one starts to realize that it's definitely sci-fi.
Re:on the other hand... by dmforcier · 2004-04-28 04:16 · Score: 1

Probably says a lot about how much they paid them for it.

--
You can't take the sky from me!
Re:on the other hand... by Creepy · 2004-04-28 04:55 · Score: 1

I never noticed - I found Andromeda as gripping as the handshakes at a gay bar (it's a euphemism, get over it) so quickly lost interest.

I heard later they added in a bit more conflict, and that may have spiced up the show, but by then I didn't think it was worth the effort to watch. I didn't much care for Sorbo in the lead, either - it was basically his Hercules character in space.

As for Mutant X, well, it's probably been said - the show looked like a low budget X-men written by 13 year old boys targetting 8 year old boys. I didn't actually think the acting was all that bad (for some characters) in the few shows I had the misfortune to see, but my God, I've seen cartoons with better plots. Road Runner had better plots.
Re:on the other hand... by Quikah · 2004-04-28 06:49 · Score: 1

The FX on these shows looks great. The problem is the writing is crap. So perhaps they should have spent less on FX and more on writing.

--
Q.
Re:on the other hand... by doom · 2004-04-28 07:19 · Score: 1

Creepy wrote:
I never noticed - I found Andromeda as gripping as the handshakes at a gay bar (it's a euphemism, get over it) so quickly lost interest.
This is a pretty classic example of how bad writing can be really difficult to follow. The idea seems to be that this "handshakes in a gay bar" phrase is an "expression" or a "figure of speech". Instead I was left trying to figure out what it might be a euphemism for... does Creepy prefers tight little boys to the more experienced crowd at the gay bar?
But then, once I understood he meant "expression", then I was left trying to comprehend the figure of speech. In my experience, gay men shake hands like insurance salesmen. Took me a moment to remember the limp-wrist sterotype.
Re:on the other hand... by tap · 2004-04-28 07:48 · Score: 1

They didn't stop in the middle, they stopped one episode from the end.

It was run a second time, but got canned around the 2/3s mark.

Reminds me I need to go the rent the DVDs and finish watching it, except now I've forgotten what was happening.
Re:on the other hand... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 10:51 · Score: 0

Agreed. I considered Mutant X some sort of Marvel ripoff, and if not that, just plain crap.

Andromeda was creeap too. I watched it to confirm my suspicions.
Re:on the other hand... by OS24Ever · 2004-04-28 11:33 · Score: 1

Good night. Special effects weren't what made the shows suck, it was the insanely confusing plots that seemed to change weekly.

I couldn't sit through Mutant X, and Andromeda seems like they're on drugs every week. I can sit through Buck Rogers reruns without puking too much. Though the wife sure looks at me weird wondering why on earth I'm watching those.

Andromeda had a good run for maybe season one, and then some of two, then it went nutso and suddenly Dylan was a peon captain getting pushed around but seemingly on crack government people and all these new 'collectors' and what not showed up that no one mentioned the first two seasons.

Which is unfortunate because it was a decent show originally.

--
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
Re:on the other hand... by RyuuzakiTetsuya · 2004-04-28 15:34 · Score: 1

I was talkiung about the Japanese run. I could be wrong though, as to exactly when it was canned during it's run. But it was canned, no one watched. Funny huh?

--
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Re:on the other hand... by stonecypher · 2004-04-28 20:24 · Score: 1

The trouble is, everybody wants to be Star Trek these days.

And people seem to forget that Star Trek is solidly rooted in cardboard sets and christmas lights. They kicked ass and continue to take numbers because they spent money on writers.

--
StoneCypher is Full of BS
Re:on the other hand... by n9hmg · 2004-04-28 21:52 · Score: 1

beginning, middle, end. Beginning and end are discrete points. Middle fills the space between. Even the penultimate episode is part of the middle.
Oh, and unless I misunderstand the concept of "end", it appears that it has ended, therefore, by definition, the last episode is, in fact, the end.
Re:on the other hand... by Anonymous+Villain · 2004-04-29 12:20 · Score: 1

5 minutes does not an expert make. 5 minutes of anything doesn't allow for a lot of credibility to criticise. Movie critics have to watch an entire movie whether they like it or not. If anyone found out that Siskel didn't watch the last 30 minutes of 2001 because it was incromprehensible no one would follow Siskel's review.

In what way is Mutant X bad? That is a matter of opinion without any fact. I can say anything is bad but how do I know it unless I explain why? Mutant X is a lot better than Space 1999 or Dr. Who and the TV version of the Incredible Hulk which is a lot better than the Universal movie of 2003. Mutant X is better than some Battle Star Galactica episodes or Babilon 5. Mutant X is an improvement over some of the Star Trek episodes. Mutant X is at least like a TV version of X-Men which is why Tribune got sued by Fox over Mutant X. Mutant X was to similar to X-men in 20th Century Fox opinion. There aren't a lot of mutant style TV shows. You could name a lot of cartoons but very few X-men style TV shows. Mutant X is a TV show of X-men.

Name Mutant X for what it is. At least it has some interesting plot and intrigue. The style of Mutant X is at least unique and novel. The Mutants and there powers are also interesting. Mutant X is not Space 1999 or Lexx where the last season is mired in hell in Fire and Water which basically ruined the series (if there was one). Mutant X isn't campy like Dr. Who or the Batman TV show. A lot of Critics gave good ratings to Mutant X. Mutant X isn't the disaster of epic proportions of Matrix Revolutions. Mutant X is not as bad as claimed. A really bad show is a really bad show for obvious specified reasons.

Serously though by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 19:40 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Neither of these are very GNU/Linuxy are they?

Ummm... by microwave_EE · 2004-04-27 19:41 · Score: 0

I don't have a TV, are either of these programs any good? I mean...I saw like, 2 episodes of Andromeda, but lost interest pretty quickly.
Sidenote: the reason I don't have a TV is because of the massive negative effects on my grades that having a TV would have...as if Slashdot didn't already do that....

--
I'll take you to the ball, Barbara Manitee!!!

Re:Ummm... by microwave_EE · 2004-04-27 19:43 · Score: 1, Funny

Excuse me...were either of these programs any good?

--
I'll take you to the ball, Barbara Manitee!!!
Re:Ummm... by ronwolf · 2004-04-27 19:56 · Score: 0, Troll

People who start conversations regarding TV (and they seem to have them as often as they can) by telling you they don't have a tv because:

a) They have WAY TOO MUCH GOING ON in their life to have time for TV
b) They are WAY TOO SMART for the crap that's on TV
c) They last saw a good show on TV in 1974
d) They think that divorcing themselves from pop culture is avant garde and oh so punk rock

Should please stop it. No one cares, or no one believes you. Either way, stop bugging us.
Re:Ummm... by SmackCrackandPot · 2004-04-27 23:10 · Score: 1

I always use reading slashdor or viewing a recording of one my favorite programs as a "reward" for completing some boring piece of homework/coursework.

"Dismayed" is a bit strong. by Kris_J · 2004-04-27 19:41 · Score: 2, Insightful

Science fiction fans may have be dismayed when they learnt that Firefly was being cancelled, but I buy the DVDs of Andromeda here in Australia and I'm far from dismayed. Not saying I know when it jumped the shark, but I almost stopped buying it at DVD 4.6.

Re:"Dismayed" is a bit strong. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 19:49 · Score: 2, Interesting

Hmm my sentiments exactly. I got into Andromeda first, liked the first season dvd's immensely, then got introduced to firefly and now Andromeda just seems... tired, or tiresome.

In anycase I've bought all the Andromeda dvd's.
The most recent one that came out was 3.4 though, so how do you get access to season 4 dvds??
Re:"Dismayed" is a bit strong. by Paul+Cameron · 2004-04-27 20:08 · Score: 1

You bought the Andromeda DVDs? Up to and including season 4?!

"A fool and his money are soon parted."
Re:"Dismayed" is a bit strong. by Kris_J · 2004-04-27 20:16 · Score: 2, Interesting

Hmm my sentiments exactly. I got into Andromeda first, liked the first season dvd's immensely, then got introduced to firefly and now Andromeda just seems... tired, or tiresome.
Snap. I'm almost ashamed to have the Firefly box set in the same media tower as Andromeda.
In anycase I've bought all the Andromeda dvd's. The most recent one that came out was 3.4 though, so how do you get access to season 4 dvds??
Apparently Australia has been getting DVDs the fastest. Might have something to do with the fact that no free-to-air station will touch it. I think cable hasn't even started showing season four here.
Re:"Dismayed" is a bit strong. by sTalking_Goat · 2004-04-27 20:25 · Score: 2, Interesting

Not saying I know when it jumped the shark
One good (bad) thing I can say about Andromeda is that it excelled at shark jumping. Too many characters for one thing. While some shows can make that work (Firefly) Andromeda didn't seem to have the budget (or the writing talent) to have all the characvters in each episode. Also whats the point of having a ship staffed by thousands if 6 and an AI can do the job just as well. I could go on and on, but I'd rather go to bed...

--
My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...
Re:"Dismayed" is a bit strong. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 22:30 · Score: 0

when it jumped the shark

WTF is "jumping the shark"? Can't you speak English without using ridiculous newspeak terms like this?
Re: "Dismayed" is a bit strong. by Black+Parrot · 2004-04-27 23:09 · Score: 3, Informative

> WTF is "jumping the shark"?

Originally it meant a show doing something outrageous and irrelevant in order to boost sagging ratings, e.g. Fonzie jumping over sharks on waterskis.

Now the term seems to be generalized to a couple of broader meanings by a lot of people, such as (a) making changes that take it away from its original conception, or even (b) simply going down the tubes.

--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Re:"Dismayed" is a bit strong. by vjmurphy · 2004-04-27 23:15 · Score: 2, Funny

" I almost stopped buying it at DVD 4.6"

Unfortunately, Andromeda is not a show that you can refer to by episode numbers and have it make any sense: perhaps in 10-20 years, when there have been multiple conventions, a balding Kevin Sorbo can do a skit on some lesser comedy show and when DVD 4.6 is brought up, he can say "Get a Life." THEN you can start refering to Season X, Episode Y.

But that time has not yet come.

--
Vincent J. Murphy
Spandex Justice
Re: "Dismayed" is a bit strong. by MochaMan · 2004-04-27 23:38 · Score: 1

So if I understand this correctly, this is essentially a convoluted means of expressing that a TV show now "sucks".

One might argue that TV itself has "jumped the shark."
Re:"Dismayed" is a bit strong. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 23:52 · Score: 0

I think Fox8 did start showing season 4. I'm not quite sure, I recall watching some eps, but they were really terrible. That being said I did like the first season, and even the 2nd and 3rd wern't too bad.
Re: "Dismayed" is a bit strong. by dnahelix · 2004-04-28 00:33 · Score: 1

No, you are absolutely wrong. You don't get it at all.

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Slashdot Eds Link Anonymous Posts With Logged Posts
They Are Vermin Feeding On Each Other's Feces.
I Hate \.
Re: "Dismayed" is a bit strong. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 01:29 · Score: 0

It's not that it just went downhill and sucks. Jumping The Shark means it started sucking and going downhill, so rather than fix it correctly or bow out gracefully they do something inane, like have the main characters fight in a dwarf wrestling match or whatever.

Remember Knight Rider? Super Pursuit mode when all the fins popped out of KITT? Of course that show jumped the shark about 10 times.
Re: "Dismayed" is a bit strong. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 01:33 · Score: 0

It describes that point when the show takes a dramatic turn downward. This usually occurs when a show has gone stale and they add extra characters to try to get new life out of it.
There is a website devoted to the concept. They define it as that point when the show is at its peak, but it seems to be used as I defined it above.
Re:"Dismayed" is a bit strong. by homer_ca · 2004-04-28 03:48 · Score: 1

I boycotted Firefly because Fox cancelled Dark Angel after a season ending cliffhanger to pick up that show. Now that the memories of that have faded I might be willing to watch Firefly reruns if it's worth it.
Re: "Dismayed" is a bit strong. by HTH+NE1 · 2004-04-28 04:13 · Score: 1

It describes that point when the show takes a dramatic turn downward....

There is a website devoted to the concept. They define it as that point when the show is at its peak, but it seems to be used as I defined it above.

Sounds much like climbing Kilimanjaro then: most of it's up until you reach the very, very top, and then it tends to slope away rather sharply.

--
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Re:"Dismayed" is a bit strong. by Kris_J · 2004-04-28 10:58 · Score: 1

Okay. 2 Episodes per DVD. One was a clip-show, using a kangaroo court theme. The other was simply insane and impossible to follow.
The real shame with the clip-show is that Andromeda's first one was so brilliantly conceived and executed that it's been used as an example of the best you can hope for in a clip show.

And yet... by Jhon · 2004-04-27 19:41 · Score: 5, Insightful

Enterprise gets picked up for another season.

Isn't it obvious? GOOD SF doesn't sell. Cheap commercialized tripe does.

Re:And yet... by CheshireCat · 2004-04-27 19:51 · Score: 0, Redundant

Mutant X? Andromeda? Good?
Re:And yet... by LostCluster · 2004-04-27 19:58 · Score: 5, Interesting

Enterprise keeps getting renewed because UPN needs something, anything, with the Star Trek brand in order to hold the network together. UPN is a constant sixth who sometimes risks falling to seventh behind Spanish-language Univision. It's main problem is any time Paramount has a good show, sister network CBS grabs it. Having to eat CBS's leftovers, and then having its backbone major-city affiliates also being treated as CBS's little sister just is no way to run a network.
Re:And yet... by Zenithal · 2004-04-27 20:58 · Score: 2, Insightful

Alright, I'd be the first to say that Enterprise, compaired to TNG is crap. But Enterprise compaired to much of the much WORSE crap out there is pretty darn stellar. We should be at least somewhat happy it's still around.

There's a lot of TV hours out there per-week. One of Enterprise isn't a plague on humanity, and it beats the living crap out of yet another our of reality TV.

--

Aaron
AaronCameron.net
Re:And yet... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 21:36 · Score: 3, Insightful

As long as they don't cancel StarGate SG 1. It is the only *good* Scifi on the air right now. Not that this means anything to cancel-bots who will cheerfully favor horrid garbage -- as long as it is cheap to make.
Re:And yet... by batura · 2004-04-27 21:40 · Score: 1

Dude, I hote your not talking about Mutant X. That was the worst rip-off show I have ever seen. The acting was so bad, one couldn't even watch it to laugh.
Re:And yet... by kfg · 2004-04-27 22:10 · Score: 1

Enterprise keeps getting renewed because UPN needs something, anything. . .

To make it at least appear as if they are fulfilling their contractual obligations to people who market Star Trek franchise craploa.

See the Activision lawsuit.

KFG
Re:And yet... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 23:29 · Score: 0, Funny

See the Activision lawsuit.
And see this rather funny comic on the subject.
Re:And yet... by Scrameustache · 2004-04-27 23:34 · Score: 4, Interesting

Enterprise gets picked up for another season.

Isn't it obvious? GOOD SF doesn't sell. Cheap commercialized tripe does.

Did you just call Andromeda and Mutant X good sci-fi?

Andromeda has spaceships making race car noises, and Mutant X had its Xavier-wannabe use communication satellites to download the DNA needed to stop an epidemic in mutants!

Not that I'm defending Enterprise, I think Rick Berman should be stoned to death, but Andromeda? Mutant X? Good riddance!

--
You can't take the sky from me...
Re:And yet... by the_Bionic_lemming · 2004-04-28 01:54 · Score: 1

I think Rick Berman should be stoned to death

Stoned - I think that's why enterprise is so bad - Take the drugs away from him - then when he's not stoned - Flense him with rusty razor blades, then roll him in a salt flat.

Twice.

--
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
Re:And yet... by Dr+Caleb · 2004-04-28 02:04 · Score: 1

Canwest Global also produces Stargate SG-1, but it is not part of their 'Fireworks' entertainment brand. I think they are selling the rights to SG-1 to the Sci-Fi channel. Strange, because I get Global as one of my local stations, but they took Stargate off the airwaves locally 2 years ago. Thank $deity for suprnova.

--
"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme." Mark Twain
Re:And yet... by rjelks · 2004-04-28 03:39 · Score: 1

There's an article from a month or two ago, on Slashdot, talking about the spinoff series for SG-1. I'm hoping they keep the quality of the original with the new show.

--

Tech News, Reviews and Tutorials
Re:And yet... by kalirion · 2004-04-28 03:47 · Score: 1

Please tell me it's not that AWFUL cartoon that plays in my area weekday mornings on UPN!
Re:And yet... by dgatwood · 2004-04-28 04:00 · Score: 1

Umm... AFAIK, they did cancel SG-1. It's sort-of returning as a spin-off show next season, "StarGate Atlantis", with only some of the original cast. That's why General Hammond was replaced and Jack frozen in the last episode. I'm sure they'll pop in from time to time, much like a lot of other characters that have been half-way written off the show in the past (Daniel Jackson for one season, for example), but I'm assuming that they won't be part of the regular weekly cast.
Honestly, it's going to be weird seeing an SG series without Colonel O'Neill ("with two Ls"), just like it's weird to watch the movie with a different person playing the part (though I will say they did a darn good job maintaining consistency between the movie and the series, in spite of the cast differences). In any case, my gut says that it will be like DS9 was to TNG, except with no overlap period (and thus better writing). Certainly part of the same franchise, but still a different show. Of course, I can't say for sure until I actually start seeing episodes....
Anyway, enough rambling. Must get to work.

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Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Re:And yet... by Kphrak · 2004-04-28 05:45 · Score: 1

Isn't it obvious? GOOD SF doesn't sell. Cheap commercialized tripe does.

Good SF? You're talking about Mutant X! Andromeda was at least watchable (slightly better than Enterprise, IMHO), but Mutant X was horrible...almost as bad as The Lost World. The only thing worse I could think of is if someone made a TV series out of "Battlefield Earth". Oops, better not give 'em any ideas....

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Re:And yet... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 05:55 · Score: 0

Acctualy Session 8 of SG-1 is in production.
Re:And yet... by Percent+Septesix · 2004-04-28 06:05 · Score: 1

Ahh, Ignorance at work..

SG1 is NOT cancelled. Sure, Hammond (or rather, the actor played him) departed from the SGC. However, there's all kind of indication that we will get to see him from time to time. In the same vine, Jack will also get less air time because RDA can't work the hours needed. The show would then focus on Daniel, Teal'c, and Sam.

AND there there's the spin-off SG:Atlantis, a complete new show with a new cast. The two will be aired at the same time.
Re:And yet... by jwhyche · 2004-04-28 06:27 · Score: 0

That is a very good point. My tivo will record an episode of Enterprise every now and then. It seems to like the show. When ever there is nothing else on or it hasn't captured a few episodes of Night Court, I'll let Enterprise play in the background.

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I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
Re:And yet... by jwhyche · 2004-04-28 06:39 · Score: 0

Sorry to bust your bubble dude but it's toast after the end of season 8. I think, it was supposed to be done at the end of season 7 but they trotted out the 'suitcase full of money' to get one more season out of them to led into SG-Atlantis.
I love SG-1 since I first started watching it. The only reason I had showtime was for it and when it left Showtime for SF channel, I dropped showtime. I think the sets might be reused a little to much. I mean I think I've seen that road thier own before and I think they shot that Jaffa in the last sciene. But still the show does have some good stories, good acting, and some degree of continuality.
I'm worried about this led of into SG-Atlanatis though. When a show is kept around just to led into a spin off, it usually jumps the shark and goes back for seconds. Don't have much hope for the spin off ether. Spin offs by nature tend to suck, but I'll give it a chance.

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I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
Re:And yet... by beefguts · 2004-04-28 06:42 · Score: 1

not tripe, hot vulcans are what sells...
Re:And yet... by Jhon · 2004-04-28 08:34 · Score: 1

Now that's the first 'rational' explaination I've heard! And that should be hot semi-frequently partially nude vulcans are what sells.
Re:And yet... by dtfinch · 2004-04-28 15:21 · Score: 1

Whenever the ratings go down the vulcan gets emotional and shows off more of her body, and the 7 season thing is like a tradition now. Though now that they've put her in a sex scene with Tripp, I'm curious what they'll do the next time they get desperate. Lesbians?

I think they've gotta finish the Xindi thing quick and stay away from the time travel / temporal cold war stuff for a few seasons. And Scott Bakula needs to act better. He did well in previous roles, but hasn't made a great captain.
Re:And yet... by stonecypher · 2004-04-28 20:28 · Score: 1

And yet... (Score:5, Insightful) Enterprise gets picked up for another season.

You know, I'll be the first to jump down Berman and Braga's throats for creating a serious sucking force in what used to be a great franchise, but are you serious? Enterprise, the bastard sickly redheaded stepchild of the Star Trek universe, has more plot in an average episode than an Andromeda season. And that's not exactly saying a lot.

Unless, of course, you're talking about the paragon of writing excellence which is Mutahahaha. Wait, I can do this with a straight face. Lemme try again.

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StoneCypher is Full of BS
Re:And yet... by RevAaron · 2004-04-29 06:26 · Score: 1

You know, Roddenberry had it right- make your yeoman and your guest ladyfolk hot, but NOT YOUR VULCAN. although, a lot of the nerdladies i know think Spock is hot, but that is something completely different. Roddenberry always had some cute girlies in TOS, cute even today- which is rare, IMHO, for 60s TV series. At least for my tastes- perhaps Gene just has similar ones to mine. But that was OK, for some hot alien to show up for an episode, Kirk to get his freak on, and then exit stage left. THIS IS A VULCAN, man. HMPF.

Tripp and T'Pol did it? Christ. I guess I'm glad we've not been watching.

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Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
Re:And yet... by Sabalon · 2004-04-29 15:55 · Score: 1

That's kinda interesting because a bit ago in the Atlanta market, CBS's local affiliate was bought out by UPN, therefore pushing CBS into the UHF range (not that it matters for cable, but for over-the-air it was quite a shock).

At least I think that's the way it happened. Perhaps it was FOX now that I think about it.
Re:And yet... by LostCluster · 2004-04-29 17:03 · Score: 1

That's kinda interesting because a bit ago in the Atlanta market, CBS's local affiliate was bought out by UPN, therefore pushing CBS into the UHF range (not that it matters for cable, but for over-the-air it was quite a shock).

At least I think that's the way it happened. Perhaps it was FOX now that I think about it.

No... Atlanta was one of the cites affected by the "New World Order" situation in 1994.

The New World Station group, which for a long time was an operator of mostly CBS affiliates had their contract with CBS up for renewal, and shocked the world by jumping to Fox on all of its stations. (The station group would later be sold to Fox, making all of the stations network O&Os, but that would come later.) In Atlanta, that meant Fox moved from an O&O station in the form of WATL 36, to the former CBS affiliate at WAGA 5... while Fox still held control of WATL making it unavailable to CBS.

All of the VHF channels were spoken for, and CBS found itself without a home. Desperate to secure an affiliate, CBS was forced into buying themselves the weakest station in town, WVEU 69 in order to assure itself that they'd have an affiliate. 69 is a weak signal nearly everywhere it's used because it's on the extreme edge of the TV band. CBS wasn't really happy, but they had to do what they had to do.

But, in a shocker, Tribune offered up their WGNX 46 for CBS affiliation. Obserbers expected that Tribune was intending on affiliating that station with the about-to-launch WB network to which Tribune would subscribe nearly all of its stations, but this turned out to be a key holdout. The CBS affiliation would land there.

CBS tried to get out from buying WVEU, but a deal was a deal and it was too late. CBS ended up having to buy the station, and would operate it as a station in the UPN network under a new callsign of WUPA. The WB affilation eventually landed at Fox's WATL 36. So, CBS ended up owning a UPN affilate and Fox ended up owning a WB affilate. Strange bedfellows...

Since then...

-New World got bought out by Fox... and FCC rules at the time prohibited two stations by the same owner in the same city, so WATL was sold to a group led by Quincy Jones.
- Tribune decided that they'd rather own the WB affilate than a CBS affilate, so they sold WGNX 46 to Meridith Broadcasting, who renamed the station WGCL. Tribune was then free to buy up WATL 36 and did so.
- CBS would end up having to operate WUPA 69 until the CBS-Viacom merger happened in 1999, at which point the station was quietly passed within the company which made the station a UPN O&O.

The "New World Order" event set off a domino reaction among the other networks as well. CBS looked to secure itself a future in many markets by signing a long term deal with the Group W stations, which turned several NBC affiliates into CBS affilates a few years ahead of the Westinghouse-CBS merger. ABC and Hearst renewed their affilations in a long term deal to assure they'd still be together.

Now, the intersting thing for modern times is that most of these 1994-1995 transactions were 10-year deals that are now about to expire... This most likely won't affect major markets as changes in the ownership caps have allowed networks to buy up their affiliate stations to lock down the affilate-station relationships, but this could lead to some swaps among the smaller market ownership groups in the near future...
Re:And yet... by Sabalon · 2004-05-03 04:52 · Score: 1

You have a much better memory than me :)

All I remember is trying to watch channel 46 back in the 70's with rabbit ears :)
Re:And yet... by NekoXP · 2004-05-06 22:49 · Score: 1

Andromeda has spaceships making race car noises
Okay, just like Star Wars where the spaceships make noises like biplanes?

Yet another quality Slashdot communitycancellation by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 19:41 · Score: 5, Funny

First goatse.cx gets shutdown, now Andromeda.

Is nothing sacred anymore?

What's next - Lucasfilm is cancelling Episode III!!?!?

88? by kahei · 2004-04-27 19:42 · Score: 4, Funny

*88* episodes? The fact that someone kept Andromeda going for 88 episodes is deeply disturbing. I always assumed there were only about 4, and they got repeated a lot.

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Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.

Re:88? by Kris_J · 2004-04-27 19:57 · Score: 2, Interesting

You're thinking of the space battles. There were only about 4 space battles that were rendered and the rest a remixes with the same 3D graphics. There were some "girl of the week" episodes that hardly had any space battles. But it is a worry that a show only as tenth as good as DS9 could go on for half as long.
Re:88? by Scrameustache · 2004-04-27 23:36 · Score: 1

But it is a worry that a show only as tenth as good as DS9 could go on for half as long.

Yikes! Lesse, a tenth of utterly crappy would be..."teh l@m3"? ;-)

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You can't take the sky from me...
Re:88? by AndroidCat · 2004-04-28 00:36 · Score: 1

That would explain why the Commonwealth's existance seemed to be controlled by a random function each week (or less).

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One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Re:88? by stonecypher · 2004-04-28 20:47 · Score: 1

*88* episodes? ... there were only about 4, and they got repeated a lot.

As anyone who's watched Andromeda or Babylon 5 knows, these two observations are not mutually excusive.

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StoneCypher is Full of BS

Not really by laiquendi · 2004-04-27 19:43 · Score: 4, Insightful

Science fiction fans may be dismayed to learn that "Mutant X" and "Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda" have been cancelled

Heh, more likely they won't. Save your pity for Firefly.

Mutant X by thisfred · 2004-04-27 19:44 · Score: 5, Insightful

I haven't seen much Andromeda, but I can't say I'm surprised to see Mutant X cancelled. All it was, really, was a very cheap ripoff of the X-Men (Scientist provides place for young and confused mutants and together they fight crime.), and it didn't even seem to want to hide that fact. Good riddance.

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"I Just Want You To Hurt Like I Do" - Randy Newman

Re:Mutant X by Bricklets · 2004-04-27 20:43 · Score: 1

All [Mutant X] was, really, was a very cheap ripoff of the X-Men...

Actually, I believe "X-Men" and "Mutant X" are both properties of Marvel. Who would have thought that would be so.

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Little Bricklets
Re:Mutant X by Hungus · 2004-04-27 21:38 · Score: 1

You are in fact corect they are both property of Marvel. The first and only episode of Mutant X I ever watched left me with the thought "Someone is going to get so sued by Marvel it isn't funny" so I stayed until the end just to see who it would be, suprisingly up came marvel's logo. Interestingly there is a lawsuit in teh LA Superior civil court about this issue rigthnow .. as can-west is suing Tribune for not having rights to X-Men .. go figure.

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Re:Mutant X by vjmurphy · 2004-04-27 23:17 · Score: 1

"Actually, I believe "X-Men" and "Mutant X" are both properties of Marvel. Who would have thought that would be so."

Why would you think that a company that publishes something like 10 different variations on the X-Men a month would be concerned about a TV show that uses the same idea?

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Vincent J. Murphy
Spandex Justice
Re:Mutant X by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 01:02 · Score: 0

I've 'eard tell that Mutant X is precisely an alternate-universe version of X-Men, and the Mutant X universe originally appeared as a series of X-Men comics. http://www.scott.linkt.com.au/review.html
Re:Mutant X by lysium · 2004-04-28 01:27 · Score: 1

But then again, women enjoyed watching the show (opinion based upon informal survey). My girlfriend would slit her wrists rather than watch X-Men, or even Star Trek or Star Wars, but Mutant X was somehow acceptable and different.
As I tend to view any science fiction that pulls in outside viewers to be an encouraging, rather than discouraging, thing, I will actually regret that show going off.
===--===

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Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
Re:Mutant X by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 03:25 · Score: 0

All it was, really, was a very cheap ripoff of the X-Men

What really surprised me is that they didn't even rip off any of the good stories from X-Men.

Maybe they tried and the writing was just too horrible to notice.

No Offense Intended by mphase · 2004-04-27 19:44 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'm sorry to say that I haven't been able to watch either show because they are just so bad. I've never been able to stomach Mutant X but I liked Andromeda at first, but now to watch episodes I originally liked I stand stand it. I believe the reason for this is fantastic shows like Farscape and Firefly which just make these shows look like steaming piles. Okay I've got to admit I little offense is actually intended. How do people whatch that dren?

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vampirical

Re:No Offense Intended by TheRaven64 · 2004-04-27 22:30 · Score: 1

Andromeda really irritated me because it had so much potential. The story ark of restoring the commonwealth could have generated a lot of good stories, and the characters could have developed into interesting personalities. Instead, it became predictable and formulaic.
I watched the first series thinking `well, first series' are often bad. It will get better.' I watched the second, thinking `it is going to get better, right?' I didn't watch the third at all.

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I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Re:No Offense Intended by timholman · 2004-04-27 23:13 · Score: 1

I've never been able to stomach Mutant X but I liked Andromeda at first, but now to watch episodes I originally liked I stand stand it.

Andromeda suffered from the Earth:Final Conflict syndrome - an interesting beginning that rapidly degenerated into unwatchable crap after creative team / cast changes. Andromea had me hooked at the start, and turned me off completely by the start of the third season after Robert Hewitt Wolfe was forced out as head writer.

There's little to mourn about Andromeda or Mutant X. There's always an audience for sci-fi (fickle though that audience may be), and hopefully the money that was being wasted on these train wrecks may find its way into better shows next season.
Re:No Offense Intended by slashdot_commentator · 2004-04-27 23:59 · Score: 4, Insightful

How do people whatch that dren?

Simple, the majority of people are idiots, and TV networks look to attract as many viewers as possible. If its a well written show with many plot twists and great dialogue, its bound to confuse a significant portion of TV viewers, who find it uncomfortable. The key is to find an acceptable level of mediocrity. If people weren't getting dumber and less literate, there would be no motivation to reduce the reading level of news magazines.

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There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
Re: No Offense Intended by Black+Parrot · 2004-04-28 01:09 · Score: 3, Funny

> uncomfortable. The key is to find an acceptable level of mediocrity. If people weren't getting dumber and less literate, there would be no motivation to reduce the reading level of news magazines.

Would you mind explaining that again, without using so many big words?

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Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Re:No Offense Intended by stonecypher · 2004-04-28 20:43 · Score: 1

The best part about this argument is when someone tries to get you to show parallels in shows from one, two, or four decades ago which actually bear this out. Inevitably, the speaker will choose one or two well written modern shows and contrast them with oen or two poorly written older shows. The fact of the matter is that modern television is on the whole significantly better than its counterparts from ages ago; the reason we're decreasingly satisfied is that we have a new alternative, the 'Net, which is significantly more literate and user-targetable still.

So unless you want to compare I Love Lucy to The Upright Citizens Brigade, Leave It to Beaver with Seinfeld, Scooby Doo with Futurama, The Outer Limits with Firefly, Hee Haw with Mr. Show, and so on, then I'll kindly request that you tell me where in the 70s to find Frasier, Six Feet Under, The Sopranos, Cowboy Bebop, Family Guy, ST:TNG, Wolf's Rain, Oz, Carnivale, The Shield, Smallville, and so on. And I don't even watch TV.

If anything, TV's better than it's ever been. The only problem is that since Teh Intarweb, that's not good enough anymore.

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StoneCypher is Full of BS

Noooo by ericdano · 2004-04-27 19:44 · Score: 1

No, not Andromedia. I will miss Tyr, even though he has been seriously lacking in season 4. I loved him in the previous seasons. Great wit.

And Rommie? My favorite sci-fi babe? Oh man......that is a though blow.

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I moderate therefore I rule!
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Re:Noooo by unitron · 2004-04-28 18:25 · Score: 1

"I will miss Tyr, even though he has been seriously lacking in season 4."
Tyr's been hanging out on "The Young and the Restless" (well, the actor anyway).

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I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

What you talking about WIllis? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 19:45 · Score: 0

Holy Crap!

Okay, they kill The Invisiblle Man, they kill MutantX, and in both cases, we have Tremors.

Holy Crap! is an understanding.

Obligatory… by RadRafe · 2004-04-27 19:48 · Score: 4, Funny

Blame Canada.com!

Re:Obligatory… by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 07:10 · Score: 0

Blame CanWest :)

"Your Canada, Your National Pest"

National Post: Your daily conservative dribble

Good riddance to bad crap by JoeShmoe · 2004-04-27 19:49 · Score: 5, Insightful

I mean...seriously...these shows are unwatchable. Completely. Why in God's name would anyone mourn these shows being cancelled?

There's no science. Please, someone find me the gene that lets a guy turn into some kind of Lava monster. That's a more amazing evolutionary feat than the bombadier beetle. It's like the worst parts of the worst episodes of X-Files all jammed into an solid 40 minutes, with an entire rip on the whole X-Men concept to boot.

And Andromeda...starts out with this gimmick of a holographic hot chick representing the ship (sort of a video version of Star Trek's talking female ship voice). Then they drop all pretense and somehow she becomes a walking talking hologram. And then later, I'm not sure, but did she end up turning into a real girl somehow? And those stupid names. God, who the hell green lights crap like "Rev Blem" or "Trance Gemini"...oooo! So alien! So spacey future sounding!

Forget it. Other shows, like Farscape or whatever, hey...I'm not a fan, but I can be appropriately sad to hear another Sci-Fi show bites the dust. But Mutant X? No. Andromeda? Quit beating the dead Roddenbery. These shows should die...every dollar not wasted on them is perhaps another dollar that can maybe somehow through a miracle end up going towards new Firefly episodes.

- JoeShmoe
.

--
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing

Re:Good riddance to bad crap by Kris_J · 2004-04-27 20:02 · Score: 5, Interesting

And Andromeda...starts out with this gimmick of a holographic hot chick representing the ship (sort of a video version of Star Trek's talking female ship voice). Then they drop all pretense and somehow she becomes a walking talking hologram. And then later, I'm not sure, but did she end up turning into a real girl somehow?
There are three distinct versions. A screen-only, all-business personality. A cynical hologram. And a modified "we robots don't have emotions and sometimes that makes me really sad" robot. It is to Lexa Doig's credit that she unflinchingly maintained these three distinct versions of the same character through all the bad scripts and questionable editing.
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by JChris · 2004-04-27 20:04 · Score: 1, Funny

And those stupid names. God, who the hell green lights crap like "Rev Blem" or "Trance Gemini"...oooo! So alien! So spacey future sounding!

I think we should do a series where all the aliens are named Bob.

That would be cool.
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by JoeShmoe · 2004-04-27 20:15 · Score: 4, Interesting

Thank you for clearing that up...not that it really matters but...I really question the direction and general quality of a show when major plot points are subject to such huge revisions. Case in point...

Enterprise was sold on the principle of a "simpler, earlier Trek". Remember the exolinguist Hoshi? Remember the struggle to communicate? Wasn't that supposed to be a major theme of the series? It took precisely five episodes for the show to go from "omg omg omg the computer will take six hours to translate this so we know if this alien is hostile" to "I'm Captain Archer onboard an alien prison ship but apparently everyone speaks English or the Universal Translator is now small enough to fit invisibly in my ear". Enterprise has pretty much thrown out everything it was based on, giving us episodes involving time plots and DeathStars more complicated that anything from the other so-called advanced series.

Back to Andromeda...I gave it a try or two for the first half season or so then promptly forgot about it. A couple years later when I revisited it during a bout of insomnia, I remember thinking that absolutely nothing was the same. The angry fend for himself bounty hunter was somehoe like the chief ship security officer, the pacifist preacher was doing some kind of ninja kung fu, and the hologram of the ship was somehow walking around and trying to get laid. Or something like that. Anyway, I got the sense that the series had probably been through two or three shark jumps and flipped back to Cheers reruns for the 10000th time.

- JoeShmoe
.

--
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by JoeShmoe · 2004-04-27 20:27 · Score: 2, Insightful

"Meet the twins, Vreeeeeeeeeet and Bob" - K from Men in Black.

Seriously, names all mean something. So, if you were an alien, wouldn't your name be translated too? You'd have aliens with Indian sounding names like "Son of the stars".

It always bugged me on Star Trek (really any Scifi) show when they just sprinkle alien words (or even worse...subtitles) throughout the otherwise English dialog. How exactly does the translator know when to let a word slip through untranslated? The fact that the aliens would then explain the meaning of the alien word was another irritation. How does the alien even know the word isn't being translated? Aren't they supposed to be speaking their own language?

I don't mean to be unreasonable, I'm willing to put up with a little suspension of belief but it would be nice for script writers to pay attention once and a while and think about it. I mean, we all rag on any SciFi show that doesn't display perfect 100% physics rules ("you can't see lasers!" "there are no booms in space") so why don't we get equally uppity about things like obvious language paradoxes?

- JoeShmoe
.

--
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by JoeShmoe · 2004-04-27 20:32 · Score: 1

1) Firefly doesn't need saving, the DVD sales did that

2) Feel free to check my postings from two years ago where I defended Firefly on numerious occasions from the accusations of it being "space cowboys" or "Buffy in space"

3) I like how going along with a minority means I'm some kind of conformist me-too sheep. Gee, if only I could be as free thinking and independant as the majority opinion!

- JoeShmoe
.

--
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by philharhamica · 2004-04-27 21:16 · Score: 1

Shmoess was anything but perfect. As are all shmoes.

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scottiebear
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by Jin+Wicked · 2004-04-27 21:44 · Score: 1

It's not just you. I looooove Star Trek, but that always bugged the crap out of me too. It wasn't quite so bad in TNG on out, but that sort of thing is one of the things that makes TOS so painful to watch (and delightfully campy =P0.

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My Webcomic: Asylum on 5th Street
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by Jedi+Alec · 2004-04-27 21:52 · Score: 1

yet, despite the fact that they completely screwed up the whole storyline, somehow Enterprise manages to turn off my brain and keep me happily distracted for the duration of 1 and occasionally 2 entire episodes at a time, whereas during Mutant X or Andromeda i get bored after 5 minutes and start reading Slashdot trolls.

Then again, it might have something to do with the hot model/actress turned into a Vulcan icequeen...

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People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by Daetrin · 2004-04-27 22:35 · Score: 1

There's no science. Please, someone find me the gene that lets a guy turn into some kind of Lava monster.
I'm not sure, but i think it's a slightly mutated descendent of the Roddenberry gene :)

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This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Re: Good riddance to bad crap by Black+Parrot · 2004-04-27 22:58 · Score: 1

> And Andromeda...starts out with this gimmick of a holographic hot chick representing the ship (sort of a video version of Star Trek's talking female ship voice). Then they drop all pretense and somehow she becomes a walking talking hologram.

In a low-cut miniskirt.

That's where the series lost me. (In more than one sense of the word.)

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Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by Daetrin · 2004-04-27 22:59 · Score: 2, Insightful

Seriously, names all mean something. So, if you were an alien, wouldn't your name be translated too? You'd have aliens with Indian sounding names like "Son of the stars".
The rest of what you say is perfectly valid, but the above would actually be a usefull function to add to a translator. It would be much more usefull for it to know to leave "Joe Smith" alone. That way when the aliens say "Joe Smith," he'll know they're talking about him. And given the odd results you can get by translating a phrase back and forth between langauges, it could also save some of the confusion that might result when they said his "name" and it came back as "The Lord Added a Man Who Hammers Metal."

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This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by Colonel+Cholling · 2004-04-28 00:23 · Score: 1

Then they drop all pretense and somehow she becomes a walking talking hologram. And then later, I'm not sure, but did she end up turning into a real girl somehow?

Well, see, they met some aliens who took them back to Earth, and then Rimmer invented the Solidgram which gave holograms bodies, and... no wait, that was another show.

--

I am Sartre of the Borg. Existence is futile.
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by Kenshiro · 2004-04-28 00:29 · Score: 1

Back to Andromeda...I gave it a try or two for the first half season or so then promptly forgot about it. A couple years later when I revisited it during a bout of insomnia, I remember thinking that absolutely nothing was the same.

So the fact that there might be an actual plot and things might change is a problem for you? :)

Seriously though, they did in fact go through a major, disappointing shift. The changes you mention were the results (imo) of good, long term plot points. Later on, the series very consciously shifted to a more episode-by-episode everything must be wrapped up by the end of the hour approach, which really hurt the show.

I'd love to see one more season, if it was in fact going to be the final season :(
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by Paulrothrock · 2004-04-28 01:16 · Score: 1

giving us episodes involving time plots and DeathStars

Maybe Archer should look for a teeny weeny vulnerable hole?

--
I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 01:17 · Score: 0

I really question the direction and general quality of a show when major plot points are subject to such huge revisions.

They're not revisions, and they're not huge. All three co-exist at the same time.

If you'd actually open your mind just a teensy bit, you might actually understand some of what happened, instead of simply dismissing what you don't understand.
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by werfele · 2004-04-28 02:57 · Score: 1

It's also true that interpreters never translate the names of individuals, and interpreters are presumably the real world analog on which the universal translator is based. That's not just because it would be confusing to translate individuals' names, but also because the interpreter needs to come up with a semantic equivalent. Since "Joe Smith" doesn't really make an English speaker think of the forging of metal implements, it would be misleading to translate it into another language.
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by tbannist · 2004-04-28 03:34 · Score: 1

Yeah, I'm sure you could come up with better names.

FYI: Rev Bem is a joke that stuck, it stands for Reverend Bug Eyed Monster.

Trance Gemini was obviously supposed to be an obvious pseudonym.

Frankly the names never bothered me. Having a bunch of characters named Bob and Bill would.

--
Fanatically anti-fanatical
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by Jbrecken · 2004-04-28 04:03 · Score: 1

Enterprise was sold on the principle of a "simpler, earlier Trek". Remember the exolinguist Hoshi? Remember the struggle to communicate? Wasn't that supposed to be a major theme of the series? It took precisely five episodes for the show to go from "omg omg omg the computer will take six hours to translate this so we know if this alien is hostile" to "I'm Captain Archer onboard an alien prison ship but apparently everyone speaks English or the Universal Translator is now small enough to fit invisibly in my ear".

That's the same reason I was never able to get into SG1. Stargate the movie was about how they had to find a guy who studied the right ancient language to be able to read the hieroglyphs, which eventually helped him talk to the natives on the foreign planet, although he even had to struggle to understand them. Stargate the series brings them to a bunch of worlds where everyone speaks English.
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by Cynikal · 2004-04-28 04:54 · Score: 1

i dont want to get off on a tangent here, but your points about lasers and explosions are things that i call "too much reality" that would actually take away from the entertainment.. we are men, we like to see and hear things explode, its genetic... if theres no sound, half the entertainment is gone, even if it WOULD be more realistic... and a fire fight between 2 ships with lasers you cant actually see? well thats just ballet.. twisting and turning, and flying around...

how much would you really enjoy an rpg game if your characters had to stop every 4 to 6 hours to eat, or go take a crap in the middle of a fight? oh you gained 13 experience points for washing your clothes..

theres realism, and then theres too much realism.. and i would bet any money any scifi built on too much realism would not succeed... "yeah i hate this show, its so boring, but i'll watch it cause it follows the laws of physics"
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by ChuckleBug · 2004-04-28 05:44 · Score: 1

Stargate the series brings them to a bunch of worlds where everyone speaks English.

I can relate. Still, my philosophy about scifi shows is this: If it's good overall, I can give the show 1 mulligan. By mulligan, I mean I can give them 1 absurdity or gaping plot hole for which I will willingly suspend my disbelief. Giving SG-1 the "everyone speaks English" mulligan, I have found it to be one of my favorite shows ever.
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by Watts+Martin · 2004-04-28 05:45 · Score: 2, Interesting

I got the sense that the series had probably been through two or three shark jumps...

Yes. The show was never great television, but really, the first season had more promise than I think people like to give it credit for. The show's head writer (and the real creator, despite the Roddenberry name), Robert Hewitt Wolfe, was floundering toward a long story arc with a dark, complex background. The first season had perhaps too much of a penchant for visiting old Trek tropes, but it frequently found rather clever, interesting takes on them -- no tractor beams, but Buckytube tow cables; no transporter technology, and an episode with the engineer trying to invent it, blowing up watermelons as he tried to send them from one side of the room to the other. The writing was uneven but when it was good, it was, well, good. The universe got more complex the more we saw of it, and it was clear Wolfe had a direction he wanted to go in, an epic story he wanted to tell over several seasons.

Then, halfway through the second season, the producers -- notably Sorbo himself -- decided that Wolfe was asking viewers to think too much. Really. IIRC, I'm not paraphrasing by very much. Wolfe got the boot and the show just veered right off into the twilight zone. I watched about ten minutes of a new episode a month ago, and it clearly wasn't even a related show to the first season.

It may have always been cheese, but in the beginning it had aspirations to be Blue Stilton. It ended up as day-old nacho sauce.
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by Rick+Genter · 2004-04-28 07:22 · Score: 1

how much would you really enjoy an rpg game if your characters had to stop every 4 to 6 hours to eat, or go take a crap in the middle of a fight? oh you gained 13 experience points for washing your clothes..
Isn't that the idea behind Everquest? <ducking/>

--
Don't underestimate the power of The Source
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 08:47 · Score: 0

"the hologram of the ship was somehow walking around and trying to get laid"

I very much doubt Lexa Doig has to try very hard.
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by RobertLTux · 2004-04-28 10:45 · Score: 1

And Andromeda...starts out with this gimmick of a holographic hot chick representing the ship (sort of a video version of Star Trek's talking female ship voice). Then they drop all pretense and somehow she becomes a walking talking hologram. (easy holo-emiter network around the ship) And then later, I'm not sure, but did she end up turning into a real girl somehow? (hacked ships drone because the ships engineer 1 found some docs 2 needed a "girlfriend") And those stupid names. God, who the hell green lights crap like "Rev Blem" or "Trance Gemini".. (no comment)

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Re:Good riddance to bad crap by stonecypher · 2004-04-28 20:49 · Score: 1

decided that Wolfe was asking viewers to think too much ... and the show just veered right off into the twilight zone

Aw, don't say that. The twilight zone makes me think, right up to this day.

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StoneCypher is Full of BS
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by stonecypher · 2004-04-28 20:58 · Score: 1

Seriously, names all mean something. So, if you were an alien, wouldn't your name be translated too?

So, wait, when you Scottish friend Sean comes over, do you call him Gift from God, or John? 'Cause when I do that, I get punched. Also, actually, can you think of a group of people other than various North American native peoples whose names do get translated? Is your friend Takeshi Kanno, or Emperor's Hand Of The Wind Way? Do your Chinese, Arabic or Brazilian friends tell you their names translated?

Shit, most of my friends don't even swap name order for me. You must be special.

That said...

You'd have aliens with Indian sounding names like "Son of the stars".

There are a bunch of textually-named alien species in Star Trek, and some with more exotic naming schemes (tonals, timings, smells, ordinals and so on.)

It always bugged me on Star Trek (really any Scifi) show when they just sprinkle alien words

Watch better science fiction, and pay more attention to Star Trek. This just isn't the case. It's relatively easy to find alternate naming schemes in ST:TOS, ST:TNG, ST:DS9, B5, SG1, and probably other stuff.

throughout the otherwise English dialog.

Much dialog in ST:TNG, SG1 and Farscape isn't in english at all. Moreover, ST:* and Farscape's english dialog is being instantaneously translated for the characters and audience by plot devices. Furthermore, I bet dollars to doughnuts you whined about Jesus Gibson of Not-English.

How exactly does the translator know when to let a word slip through untranslated?

Rough guess: when it can't translate it. Presumably, the translator has the ability to store rudimentary user preferences, too.

The fact that the aliens would then explain the meaning of the alien word was another irritation. How does the alien even know the word isn't being translated?

Because the human looks confused, because the human prompts or asks, or because the writer is using a tired device to push information to the audience.

I'm willing to put up with a little suspension of belief

You're referring to suspension of disbelief, I trust?

but it would be nice for script writers to pay attention once and a while and think about it.

It's funny, nearly every one of the things you gripe about have been the core plot points of at least one episode in each of ST:TOS, ST:TNG, ST:DS9 and SG1. Why don't they make us read subtitles or learn Klingon? Because we'd rather watch TV than become xenolinguists.

You seem to be confusing the realistic with the enjoyable/practical. Sometimes you let them break light speed because the characters shouldn't age 20 years on the way to the war, and sometimes you let the computer translate on the fly because miring everyone down in translators every episode is extremely boring.

so why don't we get equally uppity about things like obvious language paradoxes?

Because we'd rather enjoy the fucking story.

--
StoneCypher is Full of BS
Re:Good riddance to bad crap by leenyc · 2004-04-29 03:56 · Score: 1

They all have Babel fish in their ear now. Exolinguist no longer necessary.

Conversely... by ScriptGuru · 2004-04-27 19:51 · Score: 5, Funny

Science fans may be excited to learn that "Mutant X" has been cancelled.

--
Yet another signature that refers to itself. The irony and humor is dead.

Good! Andromeda sucked! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 19:52 · Score: 1, Funny

Good! Andromeda sucked since Robert Hewitt Wolfe was fired! Kevin Sorbo should have been fired. The rest of the cast was OK!

Gordon Michael Woolvett was funny. Lexa Doig was hot!

Maybe Lexa Doig and Victoria Pratt can get their own show! Drooooool .... Doig and Pratt!! Sounds dirty!

that giant sucking sound you hear by deft · 2004-04-27 19:56 · Score: 1

is the combination of the void left by these shows being cancelled and their actual sound as shows just "suck".

what if all the crap shows got cancelled so they could produce a good one? hmmm.

btw, whatever happened to battlestar galatica? i thought that had potential.

--

There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.

Re:that giant sucking sound you hear by deft · 2004-04-27 20:02 · Score: 1

decided to check what really did happen.... if anyones interested 9 days ago they began production on a mini series for BG.

sweet.

--

There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
Re: that giant sucking sound you hear by Paul+Cameron · 2004-04-27 20:12 · Score: 1

what if all the crap shows got cancelled so they could produce a good one? hmmm.
At least they got off to a good start.
btw, whatever happened to battlestar galatica? i thought that had potential.
I am hereby revoking your posting rights.
Re: that giant sucking sound you hear by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 21:03 · Score: 0

It was the same as when we saw it twenty-five years ago - and used the same name: "Battlesoap Gallactica"

So they can replace it? by the_thunderbird · 2004-04-27 19:57 · Score: 1, Funny

With more crap shows???

Re:So they can replace it? by Magickcat · 2004-04-27 21:05 · Score: 0

How about a Reality TV Star Trek show? You can vote who gets to wear the red shirt. They can bring Shatner back - he'd be happy to get the gig.

Or maybe an porn Trek - now that's what a lot of people have wanted for a long time.

--
Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses. If you had kept quiet, you would have remained a philosopher.
Re:So they can replace it? by the_thunderbird · 2004-04-27 22:17 · Score: 1

Star Trek was a decent series, but I wouldn't be shocked if there wasn't already a porn trek! ;)
Re:So they can replace it? by Mycroft_VIII · 2004-04-27 23:06 · Score: 1

Well then you have no fear of being shocked.
A friend of mine has dvd, and aparently thier is a sequal he's thinking about ordering. It's done as a porn spoof. Pretty funny actually.
Somthing about checking up on some mysterious happenings at startbase 69 and delivering a pizza.
and the ship is called the uss intercourse.

Mycroft (maybee I shouldn't sign this, just check anonymous and... ah nevermind)

--
https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
Re:So they can replace it? by the_thunderbird · 2004-04-27 23:08 · Score: 0

Mod parent up to informative!! He is telling us where to get sci-fi porn!!!
Re:So they can replace it? by Mycroft_VIII · 2004-04-28 20:31 · Score: 1

And instead they mod you down. Bummer I think funny + insightfull makes more sense, not that I'm biased or anything. :)

Mycroft

--
https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea

Andromeda And Mutant X Cancelled by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 19:58 · Score: 0

Thank god.

Well FINALLY!! by Mastadex · 2004-04-27 20:02 · Score: 1

Andromeda wasnt all that great, compared to Startrek Next Gen or DS9. Never really pulled me into it. So finally they decided to can the right shows this time instead of canning super smash hits like Family Guy or Futurama!!!

--
A morning without coffee is like something without something else.

Re:Well FINALLY!! by rms_nz · 2004-04-27 20:13 · Score: 1

They cancelled Futurama? Man am I behind the times :/

The thing that I didn't like about Andromeda was Kevin Sorbo - kept thinking of Hercules in Space!
Re:Well FINALLY!! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 20:18 · Score: 0

Well I have recently re-watched some TNG and they are so unbelivably bad I have stopped watching them to preserve the good memories I have of the show.
Re:Well FINALLY!! by raodin · 2004-04-27 20:58 · Score: 1

I happened across the pilot a month or so ago on Sci-Fi.. I'd never watched the show, but I figured I'd watch it out of boredom. One of the characters described Kevin Sorbo's character as something like, "really huge.. like some sort of greek god or something." That was about when I turned it off.
Re:Well FINALLY!! by Polkyb · 2004-04-27 21:02 · Score: 1

Just shows you, eh. I loved TNG and Voyager, but DS9, IMO, sucked a big one... The only thing it had going for it was O'Brien and Worf, and even then, Worf didn't show up until halfway through

I think they should consider another series like TNG but maybe set further into the future... New toys and (hopefully) fresh ideas

--
I've never shoed a horse, but I once told a donkey to piss off!
Re:Well FINALLY!! by Mastadex · 2004-04-28 07:46 · Score: 1

Im behind you all the way with that. What if they set it using the TNG crew but with the enterprise E? or maybe the Enterprise F? The reason why DS9 was a failure is because it was put on the back burner when all the studios wanted to do was make Voyager a commercialized sci fi show.

--
A morning without coffee is like something without something else.

Ummm...Darth Veal. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 20:03 · Score: 1, Funny

"Sidenote: the reason I don't have a TV is because of the massive negative effects on my grades that having a TV would have...as if Slashdot didn't already do that...."

[Heavy laboured, breathing]
Soon, young Slashdotter. You'll be MINE!

for those nzers interested by rms_nz · 2004-04-27 20:04 · Score: 1

CanWest also owns TV3 & C4 in NZ... I must admit these two channels aren't renowned for their Sci-Fi - I can't quite remember the last sci-fi show actually (C4 being a music channel kinda does have an exemption I guess :) )

Re:Yet another quality Slashdot communitycancellat by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 20:05 · Score: 5, Funny

What's next - Lucasfilm is cancelling Episode III!!?!?

We can only hope...

He's dead, Jim. by LostCluster · 2004-04-27 20:08 · Score: 4, Insightful

When the name above the title was dead years before the show started... you're running a show based on an idea that wasn't good enough to go forward when he was alive. That's the first sign you're in trouble.

Lets be honest.. by Viewsonic · 2004-04-27 20:12 · Score: 1

Enterprise, while lacking, still blew away Andromeda with its entourage of effeminate aliens. And MutantX? Seriously, who even watched an entire episode?

Re:Lets be honest.. by radja · 2004-04-27 21:03 · Score: 2, Funny

>And MutantX? Seriously, who even watched an entire episode?

that would be me. I was smoking drugs at the time...

--

No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
Re:Lets be honest.. by Jackal82277 · 2004-04-28 06:35 · Score: 0

I know right.....I dont think I got past the part where they played music as the actors names were up on the screen and they showed their muggs. That show was the biggest piece of junk show I have ever seen. I saw episodes of Golden Girls that had more action that that piece of crap.
Re:Lets be honest.. by stonecypher · 2004-04-28 20:32 · Score: 1

that would be me. I was smoking drugs at the time...

As a drug user, I point out that one thing Marijuana fails to do is give you bad taste. You had better have been in a K-Hole or unconscious. :D

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StoneCypher is Full of BS

You're such a BITCH! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 20:17 · Score: 0

And I bet you're not even a real blonde.

Too bad by noewun · 2004-04-27 20:22 · Score: 3, Insightful

Andromeda's best point, imo, was that it didn't take itself seriously. It never pretended to be anything other than a cheesy science fiction show, and had a lot of fun with some of the sillier conventions of sci fi. To me, it was the perfect antidote to shows like DS9, which seemed to be so concerned with being "serious" sci fi they forgot about things like character, dialog or plot.

--
I am a believer of momentum and curves.

Re:Too bad by Kwil · 2004-04-27 21:21 · Score: 1

Wait.. are you saying Andromeda had character, dialog, or plot?

tum-te-tum.. this is my fast typing line. It's what I type when Slashdot is too stupid to realize that not everybody is a two-fingered hunt and peck typist.

--
That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze
Re:Too bad by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 22:34 · Score: 1, Informative

Holy tapdancing christ, somebody actually GETS IT.

I almost gave up reading replies, I was getting sick of wading through the endless "OMG Andromeda was teh sux! Firefly ru1ez!" posts, sprinkled with liberal doses of "Enterprise is crap, but gawsh DS9 sure was kewl."
Re:Too bad by phoxix · 2004-04-27 23:25 · Score: 2, Insightful

it was the perfect antidote to shows like DS9, which seemed to be so concerned with being "serious" sci fi they forgot about things like character, dialog or plot.

I disagree

Unlike all the other Star Trek series, DS9 had the interesting "Advantage" of being situated in a space station. Which essentially was a non-moving set/location. So while all the other Star Treks were about mindless exploration (and meeting new species in each episode), DS9 was all about building what was there because it was all what they had.

The story/plot of DS9 got quite involved, you had the Federation, Cardassians, Bajorans, the Dominion, and even the Klingons all in a developing plot. On one side you had the Federation and their shaky alliance with the Klingons, on the other you had the Cardassians and the Dominion. WIth the poor, defenseless Bajorans and their worm-hole in the center of it all.

Seems like quite a setup if you ask me

Sunny Dubey
Re:Too bad by Colonel+Cholling · 2004-04-28 00:28 · Score: 1

It never pretended to be anything other than a cheesy science fiction show, and had a lot of fun with some of the sillier conventions of sci fi.

Don't confuse mocking the sillier conventions of sci fi with employing them in earnest because you don't know any better.

--

I am Sartre of the Borg. Existence is futile.
Re:Too bad by Scrameustache · 2004-04-28 00:52 · Score: 1

Unlike all the other Star Trek series, DS9 had the interesting "Advantage" of being situated in a space station. Which essentially was a non-moving set/location. So while all the other Star Treks were about mindless exploration (and meeting new species in each episode), DS9 was all about building what was there because it was all what they had.

The story/plot of DS9 got quite involved, you had the Federation, Cardassians, Bajorans, the Dominion [...]
Seems like quite a setup if you ask me

One word: Defiant.

In the 3rd season, they finally realized that the whole shoddy alien space station idea was lame, and they jumped the shark on an already bad show by giving them a freaking warship.

And funny enough, the only parts you mention as being goog happened when they had that spaceship.

P.S. Exploration and a new species every week? That was what they did the first 3 season, with either the runnabouts going through the wormhole or aliens coming through the wormhole, and then they replaced it with mindless war, which is not a step up.

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You can't take the sky from me...
Re:Too bad by AndroidCat · 2004-04-28 00:54 · Score: 2, Insightful

Hey, a space station with a lot of politics, double-dealing and a solid arc plot, cool!
"Welcome to Babylon 5. The last, best hope for a quick buck. Oh, this is demeaning! We're not some deep space franchise. This station is about something!"

--
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Re:Too bad by noewun · 2004-04-28 03:35 · Score: 1

Don't confuse mocking the sillier conventions of sci fi with employing them in earnest because you don't know any better.

Don't hesitate to use ad homenim attacks when you can't make a cogent argument.
Good. Now that we've gotten the dick-swinging out of the way, we can move on.
I know that criticizing DS9 is a dangerous thing to do in the geek world - it's like calling Steve Jobs a jerk at Macworld, and I say that as a Mac user. However, I stand by my assertion that, if one is looking at DS9 (or TNG, etc.) as a TV show rather than as a Star Trek show (with all the worship that implies) it is a terrible show: the characters were one dimensional at best, the dialog was gratingly bad and every show I saw seemed to have the same plot. The show was popular because it managed to hit all of the tropes required to make it a Star Trek show, but these tropes are referrent to the Star Trek world alone and have no real value outside of it.
It is the same with any other genre-based fiction: there are certain things which must happen in a romance novel, or in a western movie, and so long as those things happen the work will be accepted by a large percentage of the viewing/reading population. This goes along with a theory I have (one I am loathe to present, as it will probably result in me losing all karma) that the absolute worst thing to happen to Star Trek was the ghettoization of the series by its rabid fans. Rather than be judged as a work of drama, the series is judges by how well is fits into the "Star Trek universe," a universe bounded not by the needs of making a good series or show but by the strictures of the needs of Star Trek fans to have something to identify with and call their own.
For me, one of the most basic ways this can be seen is the insistence by some that the Star Trek world present 1) a coherent timeline and 2) that all of its "science" be explainable. The original series was written without any of these restrictions - the fan base did not exist. As a result, the original series had the freedom to come up with plots, characters and ideas which best suited the dramatic aspects of the show. It wasn't necessary to have the a fictional timeline which passed any sort of logical muster - the writers had complete freedom. Any modern series, however, faces considerable fan pressure to conform to the series timeline - a timeline which is going to be inconsistent no matter what - and this is a pressure which considerably limits the freedom of the writers.
The demand that the series technology be explainable is a similar restriction, and one which really annoyed me. The absolute worst thing about TNG, to me, was the reliance on techno-babble as a deus ex machina: reached an untenable plot point? Have Gordi spout something about reversing the tachyon polarity and bingo! problem solved. Bad. Writing.
Lest it sound like I am saying that the fans ruined Star Trek, let me make it clear that the blame lies firmly on Roddenberry and Berman et al. It was Roddenberry's odd decision that, by the time TNG came around, humans were no longer prey to their emotions, giving us a ship full of one-dimensional autoanimatrons. It is Berman and his crew who seem to have completely abandoned creating a show with any dramatic tension or creativity, being instead content to drag the needle over the same worn grooves over and over. Rather than deliver a good sci-fi show, they seem set on delivering a good Star Trek(TM) show, locking themselves into an ever-tightening cycle of what is acceptable to the fan base.
I wish Star Trek was better. I was raised on the original series and still love it. I have been pleasantly surprised by Enterprise, which has given us real characters and some actual dramatic tension. And I have watched Enterprise get ravaged by some die hard fans who seem to want a show which plays by the accumulated Star Trek rules (Archer couldn't have done that! Everyone knows that hand phasers weren't gray until star date.

--
I am a believer of momentum and curves.
Re:Too bad by Mulletproof · 2004-04-28 03:46 · Score: 2, Funny

"So while all the other Star Treks were about mindless exploration"

Kinda missed the point of the franchise there, didntcha?

--
You need a FREE iPod Nano
Re:Too bad by chromatic · 2004-04-28 05:14 · Score: 1

One word: Defiant.

DS9 was pretty good, but I liked the Defiant better when it was called the White Star.

--
how to invest, a novice's guide

I always by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 20:26 · Score: 0

refered to Andromeda as "Kevin Sorbo: Space Man" now I can just call it "Kevin Sorbo: The New Priceline.com Guy"

Cherry flavoured hope. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 20:27 · Score: 2, Funny

"We can only hope..."

Will that be the "Classic Hope", or "New Hope"?

Fireworks did put out some decent genre TV by sTalking_Goat · 2004-04-27 20:28 · Score: 1

La Femme Nikita comes to mind. Anything else halfway decent done by Fireworks?

--

My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...

Re:Fireworks did put out some decent genre TV by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 20:37 · Score: 0

that's interesting. I didn't remember fireworks did la Femme Nikita.

That's one series I wish that they did not return and do a last season, as the last season sucked pretty bad.

I heard the cons were pretty fun though.
Re:Fireworks did put out some decent genre TV by Coward,+Anonymous · 2004-04-27 20:51 · Score: 3, Informative

Here's a list of everything produced by Fireworks.
Re:Fireworks did put out some decent genre TV by rabbot · 2004-04-28 01:37 · Score: 0, Offtopic

La Femme Nikita was my favorite show. They need to start running reruns again.
Re:Fireworks did put out some decent genre TV by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 02:00 · Score: 0

Wow, so many shows that Tribune Execs. fucked with, and ruined for good.
Re:Fireworks did put out some decent genre TV by vidarh · 2004-04-28 06:18 · Score: 1

Yuck.... When I saw the name I originally had a faint hope they'd actually try to reproduce something that paid proper respects to the original French movie (as opposed to the horrible hollywood adaptation - Codename Nina)... Imagine my disappointment. Why did they even bother recycling the name? It's not like many of the people who've seen the original would be likely to like the series, and considering how few people in the US are likely to recognise the name from the French movie it just seems weird...

Bah! by Chuck+Chunder · 2004-04-27 20:30 · Score: 1

Some great sci-fi can be done on the cheap. People can even find it endearing.

I think the problem is more likely to be that they concentrate so much on being flashy that they forget other aspects that go to make a good program.

That said I've never seen Andromeda and couldn't bare to sit through either of the episodes of Mutant-X I tried started watching.

--
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park

Re:Bah! by mpe · 2004-04-27 22:30 · Score: 1

I think the problem is more likely to be that they concentrate so much on being flashy that they forget other aspects that go to make a good program.

e.g. the writing and acting :)
Re:Bah! by Glytch · 2004-04-28 03:39 · Score: 2, Interesting

Sounds like you're talking about Lexx. What a great show. Cheesy as hell CGI, but I love a show that can out-weird anything else on TV.

Number of SF series completing their run? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 20:31 · Score: 0

How many serial SF series have actually completed their run and told their whole tale? Note, that means continuing plot, not just continuing characters. I can only recall a very few: Babylon 5, First Wave, and... and...

Re:Number of SF series completing their run? by JackJudge · 2004-04-27 23:12 · Score: 2, Interesting

I wouldn't include B5 in that list, the original 5 year arc was truncated to 4 then at the last minute got it's fifth and final year, when JMS had so obviously run out of steam.
Even though there wasn't much of an overall arc I guess TNG went through it's natural lifespan, likewise DS9.
Buffy and to a degree Angel both got to live out their natural lives, but I agree, investing your time and commitment to an SF show these days seems to be doomed to failure these days. Even now I still have trouble getting my head around Farscape's cancellation, Firefly I could sort of understand from the studio's POV, though losing the Serenity crew was, surprisingly, a worse shock to the system.
Re:Number of SF series completing their run? by shinma · 2004-04-28 02:19 · Score: 1

As far as I'm concerned, Earth: Final Conflict did. It finished its story and and wrapped up pretty much all of its loose threads.

Too bad they kept making a show called Earth: Final Conflict after they got rid of the Taelons and replaced them with heavy-metal vampires from outer space.

shudder

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Shinma

Mutant X == The X-Men ? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 20:33 · Score: 0

This is the first time I have heard of this show. After reading the episode guide it seems like a complete and total rip off of the X-Men comic book. The plot of the episodes (ALMOST ALL OF THEM) seem lifted directly from X-Men comics that I've read before. Even the name is a rip off. Is this show produced by Marvel Entertainment?

Re:Mutant X == The X-Men ? by m1chael · 2004-04-27 21:36 · Score: 0

Not only is it similiar but it is bad too! (too as in it is similar too, not as in X-Men is bad too).

I won't shed any tears for Mutant X. However with the cancellation of Andromeda, 'they' might sell it cheaply/cheaper to Australian networks and I might be able to watch it on TV late friday night...

--
I know you are psychotic, but please make an effort.

Wallet strikes Iceburg: Career sinks. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 20:39 · Score: 0

"A fool and his money are soon parted."

Could have been worse. He could have made a movie about a love story between two young lovers, on a doomed ship.

Holy cow! by natet · 2004-04-27 20:39 · Score: 4, Insightful

I must be the only person on the face of the planet who actually liked both of these shows. I watched them, not to learn some profound truth, or for their rigid adherance to sound scientific principles, but because they entertained me. Don't get me wrong, neither were my favorite shows, I wouldn't go out of my way to watch them, but if they were on, and I wasn't watching something else, I would watch them.

Even if I hated both of these shows, I would still be sad to see them go. The main reason is... With the trend of sci-fi shows being cancelled, eventually all we will be left with are the vapid teeny-bopper soap operas (Smallville anyone?) that seem to be so prevalent lately.

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IANAL... But I play one on /.

Re:Holy cow! by raodin · 2004-04-27 21:01 · Score: 1

Not to mention the reality/makeover/whatever crap. Yeesh.
Re:Holy cow! by lightspawn · 2004-04-27 22:42 · Score: 4, Funny

Don't get me wrong, neither were my favorite shows, I wouldn't go out of my way to watch them, but if they were on, and I wasn't watching something else, I would watch them.

You, sir, showcase the alarming arbitrariness of the TiVoless.
Re:Holy cow! by greywar · 2004-04-27 23:09 · Score: 1

nope I loved andrmeda, and utat x was OK
Re:Holy cow! by Scrameustache · 2004-04-27 23:49 · Score: 0

With the trend of sci-fi shows being cancelled, eventually all we will be left with are the vapid teeny-bopper soap operas (Smallville anyone?)

SmallVille IS sci-fi.
The Alien and spaceship should have been a clue.

P.S. Not being able to tell what is and isn't sci-fi must be why you liked Andromeda and Mutant X. I like sci-fi, and I couldn't stand these shows...SO horrible, yuck.

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You can't take the sky from me...
Re:Holy cow! by natet · 2004-04-28 04:08 · Score: 1

No, Smallville is a vapid teeny-bopper soap opera masquerading as a sci-fi show. The myriad of love triangles, and frequent use of "meteor rocks" in an attempt to generate sci-fi like tension is the tip off. My wife loves the show, which also should tell you something about it...

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IANAL... But I play one on /.
Re:Holy cow! by Whyzzi · 2004-04-28 06:07 · Score: 1

vapid teeny-bopper soap operas (Smallville anyone?)

Smallville and its spinoffs should be the the least of your worries. Try being CSI'd (Straight CSI or the Miami version) or Law and Order'd (comes in regular, Criminal Intent, and Special Victims Unit grades) to death.

Whoops, caught in the hype, I will watch all of those shows.

Can we classify Kingdom Hospital as science fiction?

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"BSD is about people pissing each other.." (Moid Vallat)
Re:Holy cow! by stripe · 2004-04-28 07:24 · Score: 1

Andromeda I liked, probably because I think Lexa Doig is really hot. :) As a series, it seems a little split brained. The story arc seems haphazard and unfocused.
Re:Holy cow! by unitron · 2004-04-28 18:54 · Score: 1

"Can we classify Kingdom Hospital as science fiction?"
I classify it as "worst audio ever".

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I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

Mutant X Plots by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 20:39 · Score: 0

I liked Andromeda, it was a bit like Hercules in space.

As for Mutant-X *shudder*. Here is a typical Mutant-X episode.

1. Group find a new mutant they need to save.
2. Someone or the mutant gets captured and brought back to Genomax.
3. Group get to break into Genomax and rescue said mutant.
4. The cat lady does the splits in mid air a few times and eletro boy waves his hands a few times.

I swear.. this is every episode! They should just install revolving doors in genomax.

Re:Mutant X Plots by AndroidCat · 2004-04-28 00:47 · Score: 1

5. The bad dude underling de la semaine gets cryo-frozen for failure.
Later complications included out of control mutant zits.

--
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Re:Mutant X Plots by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 05:59 · Score: 0

How is this instead of the current season's story arc.

First after emma dies and adam disappears, have brenon completely give up, jesse becoming obsessed with finding adam, and shalamar obsessed with revenge.

Fast forward a few months and Lexa enters. Lexa convinces brenon that there is a possibility Adam is alive and eckart knows where he is. Lexa and brenon start to develop a bond. I see lexa as cold and calculating, think evil genius. They reform mutant x and go after eckart, craziness ensues and eckart convinces them adam is dead. Shalamar kills eckart in cold blood.

The next few episodes have random plots that are used to develop the group dynamic:

shalamar -- both reckless and vulnerable, both because adam (who she views as her father figure) is now gone.
jesse -- obsessed with finding out what adam was up to and feeling a bit betrayed. He is also obsessed with saving the world.
lexa - The tactician of the group. Cold calculating and distant and is clearly hiding something.
brenon -- trying to balance the personalities of the group (and failing miserably at least once).

The dominion plays more or less the same role it does not. Adam also reappears to shal the same as now. Shal becomes closer to adam. Adam reveals the dominion is the real evil again like now, except this time have earlier episodes have plots that show this more clearly.

In the second part of the season, have lexa betray mutant x for the dominion, without them knowing about it, The group learns the dominion is trying to trying to make the work a better place by doing something evil (like killing all the mutants, or something. The group finds out Adam is really one of the founders of the dominion. Shal chooses to be with adam and leaves mutant x, until adam tries to kill brenon and jesse, which she rescues in the nick of time. This makes brenon and jesse distrust shal, and takes attention away from lexa, who is really betraying them. Brenon has come to depend on lexa's advice when leading the group. Jesse eventually starts to trust shal and takes her side against brenon and lexa on a few issues.

For the finally, adam betrays the dominion and uses there influence to take over the world (or something equally has horrific). The group finds out lexa has been betraying them. They find out the only way to stop Adam is by exposing mutants to the world. This will provide the context to keep the group together for the next season.

How is that?

Actually, we're fairly lucky by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 20:44 · Score: 1, Interesting

Anything seen to be on the fringe or where the freak and geeks reside tend to present the same statistics, regardless of a number of factors. In their eyes, why kill yourself to produce a higher-level quality which won't produce a product which will return the expected revenue.

When the shows are signed & the first few episodes are in the can, the executives have a pretty good sense (or so they say - and what's not to say they're predisposed to certain shows and establishing their own ratings?) regarding which shows will suck and be replaced by the first sweeps (November) and which will do okay, particularly if they've got a show runner. They do, however give the shows a chance.

One noticeable show to climb out of the predetermined pit of doom? CSI. The suits were totally baffled by this.

rank the babes by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 20:44 · Score: 1, Informative

It's a damn shame whenever sci-fi is canceled, and I happened to like Andromeda a lot and Mutant X a little.

Let's do something constructive, and rank da babes.

My rankings:

Laura Bertram, Trance Gemini
Lexa Doig, Andromeda (the ship)
Lauren Lee Smith, Emma, (the sometimes brunette) psychic chick on Mutant X
Victoria Pratt, Shalimar Fox, the blonde energy bolt chick on Mutant X
Lisa Ryder, Beka Valentine
Karen Cliche, Lexa Pierce (Mutant X newbie character) (hot but I never saw much of her)

They are all hot, and the rankings are all very close.

Re:rank the babes by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 20:59 · Score: 0

You better learn your subjects before you open your trap: Victoria Pratt, Shalimar Fox, the blonde energy bolt chick on Mutant X Shalimar wasn't an "the blonde energy bolt chick". She was a "feral". The closest to the "the blonde energy bolt chick" would have been Ms. Cliche|Lexa, who controls light
Re:rank the babes by Trikenstein · 2004-04-27 22:25 · Score: 1

My rankings:
1. Lexa Doig
The rest are meaningless
Re:rank the babes by -=Zak=- · 2004-04-28 01:02 · Score: 1

Wait wait... Laura Bertram ahead of Lexa Doig? What are you smoking?

Not again... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 20:48 · Score: 0, Funny

First Hercules, now Hercules in space gets cancelled.

Re:Not again... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 22:29 · Score: 0

Don't forget X-Men 90210.

They join Vampires 90210 and Aliens 90210 with Demons 90210 following on their tails.

Hopefully, Superman 90210 and Witches 90210 won't be far behind.

Re:Yet another quality Slashdot communitycancellat by Powercntrl · 2004-04-27 20:49 · Score: 1

First goatse.cx gets shutdown, now Andromeda.

Let me say with total sincerity that I mourn the loss of goatse more than anything network television has ever created.

What's next - Lucasfilm is cancelling Episode III!!?!?

That would be better news than SCO suing the RIAA and MPAA out of existance then choking to death on all the money.

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DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.

Also by obeythefist · 2004-04-27 20:52 · Score: 1

Farscape and B5 and Crusades and Mutant X and Andromeda and Enterprise is going down the chute pretty soon I hear (next season is the last bla bla)...

Are they making Sci Fi TV anymore or is this like the moon landing, where they pretend to but they actually did it in a hurry then shut everything down years ago?

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I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.

make that 3.5 by The+Rizz · 2004-04-27 20:53 · Score: 4, Interesting

Stargate is pretty much guaranteed to run its whole plot out without getting cancelled (since there's only 1 season left, and production is already a good deal underway). Unfortunately, the later seasons' plotlines aren't as good as the earler ones... but at least it's another to add to the list.

Also, there is ReBoot ... well, sorta. They finished off the story started in season 2 when they were picked up (nearly 5 years later) for season 3. Then a few years later they got the greenlight to do new episodes and started a new major plot ... just in time to get cancelled mid-plotline yet again!
However, it is animated so it may not count in this list, anyway.

Re:make that 3.5 by Unknown+Kadath · 2004-04-28 01:51 · Score: 1

Even when it's bad, Stargate SG-1 is still pretty good, which I credit mostly to Richard Dean Anderson's snarky Colonel O'Neill. The writers doomed themselves by getting into a feedback loop of ever-more-powerful technology and bad guys, I think. The last season is going to be a lead-in to the spinoff Stargate Atlantis, which I think (don't quote me) is going to be a miniseries that will turn into the pilot of a series if it's any good. (Which I'm not expecting...anyone remember Legend of the Rangers?) Good on the SG-1 guys for ending the series before it started to suck. Andromeda and Mutant X, on the other hand, started out sucking.

-Carolyn

--
Like Daddy always said: if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit.
Re:make that 3.5 by bitflip · 2004-04-28 05:40 · Score: 1

So, that's what happened with ReBoot. That's too bad, the most recent episodes were actually quite good, in an anime kind of way. There was a bit of shark-jumping to get to the new storyline, but it was worth it, IMO - it was still kid-oriented, without being so childish.
Re:make that 3.5 by Anonymous Coward · 2004-05-10 14:04 · Score: 0

Stop smoking pot, Andrew.

Rommie!!! by theolein · 2004-04-27 21:04 · Score: 1, Funny

I think the only thing everybody can agree on is that Lexa Doig is so amazingly sexy.

That said, she never did get to wear any skimpy costumes or space bikinis in Andromeda. Perhaps now she'll have time to find a show where she can really, uhm, display her qualities.

As close to the horses mouth as I can find: by Hungus · 2004-04-27 21:07 · Score: 4, Informative

This is pulled directly from the official andromeda bboards:

From: JeremyTII Apr-21 7:51 pm To: Rayhana (27 of 56) 11360.27 in reply to 11360.26 While I cannot answer every question everyone has about the issues discussed in this thread, I believe I can offer some encouraging information. From speaking with TPTB, I can tell you this: Mutant X and Andromeda have not been written off; Tribune very much wants to produce another season (meaning S4 and S5, respectively) of both shows. Beyond that, I really don't know many details.  Bottom line: You, the viewers, want the shows to come back.  Tribune is trying very hard to make sure that happens, I assure you. On another note, Marta is no longer with Tribune.  In the interest of preventing future rumor-mongering, I will say that she was not fired or laid off; she left voluntarily, and on good terms. She may log in here again sometime, but that's up to her. Hang in there, folks; we're tryin' our hardest.    Jeremy D. Horowitz    Website Producer/Moderator    Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda

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Re:As close to the horses mouth as I can find: by anaplasmosis · 2004-04-27 21:17 · Score: 0

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Andromeda must die!
Re:As close to the horses mouth as I can find: by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 21:31 · Score: 0

its written to end in another season anyway, you can watch reruns of teletubbies till then.

Re:Yet another quality Slashdot communitycancellat by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 21:20 · Score: 0

It'll be good to avoid some of the dross, but could we hold off on quality-post ratio (QPR)? I'm actually a season ticket holder at Queens Park Rangers (Loftus Road, London W12) who also subscibes to their mailing list and I doubt I'd be able to keep it all straight.

Luton Town home this Saturday - Up the R's!!

(oops, it's Slashdot...)

Thnaks for the hard work. The site is a treat.

Its still running? by OriginalChops · 2004-04-27 21:20 · Score: 3, Interesting

You know that momnet in time where you switch the TV on and it shows you something on the channel you left it, just before you decide to change channels?

Well, thats probably all the entertainment i got out of Andromida after the first episode. The quote "Did you see the size of him? He looks like some ancient Greek God or something!" did it for me...

Did any of you manage to see "John Doe"? Now that I was sad to see canseled. And canselation of Firefly should be considered an act of treason, any an all people involved in that decision should be procecuted to the full extent of the law in all countries Firefly was shown.

Re:Its still running? by sn0wcrash · 2004-04-27 21:47 · Score: 1

I admit it. I watched John Doe! I liked the show myself. It was really building up to have a good story arc. What a cliffhanger to end the show on! My wife would even watch the show with me. Something I can't say for Firefly (which I also enjoyed) or Enterprise (it's had a rough start... but it has improved alot and is starting to find itself). It's nie to be able to watch something besides Trading Spaces with the SO. Especially without Vern...
Re:Its still running? by CrimsonAvenger · 2004-04-28 01:44 · Score: 2, Funny

Well, thats probably all the entertainment i got out of Andromida after the first episode. The quote "Did you see the size of him? He looks like some ancient Greek God or something!" did it
Wish I'd seen that one, I might have actually watched the show. Nothing wrong with a show that's willing to make fun of itself from time to time....

--

"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Re:Its still running? by ecs05norway · 2004-04-28 02:09 · Score: 2, Funny

I think the best line of the entire series was where Sorbo proves his character is not Picard... Tyr: "I say we kill them all." Hunt: "Sounds like a good idea to me."
Re:Its still running? by SuiteSisterMary · 2004-04-28 02:53 · Score: 1

Yup, it was a throwaway line from a scrawny little guy nodding to the fact that Sorbo played Hercules for, what, almost ten years, including the made for TV movies that kicked it all off?

Andromeda started out a bit slow, but had a lot going for it; it was a story of the crew and their personal reactions. It had some interesting ideas about AI and what not. It had TREMENDOUS backstory and mythology.

Hell, the worst thing I found was that Tyr was this huge, hulking warrior-god, but every other Neitzchian they every showed was a balding, paunchy, middle aged man, or a scrawny little fucker. Maybe this was intended to be a subtle insinuation that they were corrupting themselves or that they were fooling themselves with their ideas of superiority.

Then, Sorbo fired Robert Wolfe, I believe his name was, the writer who had also worked on DS9, and turned the show into Hercules in Space. "Arcs are too hard, plots are too hard, we don't want people to think! This is television, man!" Well, bugger that.

Andromeda would make a good roleplaying game, too.

--
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.

Pure science fiction will never sell. by master_p · 2004-04-27 21:26 · Score: 4, Insightful

That's why lots of excellent true fictionary science books have never been touched for televised media. Average Joe does not really understand science, and he/she does not want to be bothered with operating their brain.

Throw a little soap opera in there, and you may have a winner.

Re:Pure science fiction will never sell. by Jin+Wicked · 2004-04-27 21:38 · Score: 2, Insightful

A lot of people (myself included, for a long time) were put off by the perceived arrogance of its hardcore fans, and statements like that, i.e. if a guy like that watches that show, then I probably wouldn't be interested... it had nothing to do with not really understanding science. One of the reasons I can't stand Star Wars is because the rabid fans have just completely ruined any enjoyment I got out of the films by almost making a religion out of it (Matrix was another one.)

A lot of people perceive sci-fi as the domain of nerds and weirdos that dress up like characters from the movie/tv show/whatever, and in enough cases they're right. If it had the appearance of even being more accessible to the average viewer, I'm sure it would get higher ratings.

I think the fact that my TV gets about six different Discovery channels, two History channels and a Biography channel proves that there is a large portion of the population that is, in fact, interested in science. (Again, myself included, though I'm less interested in speculative science... a.k.a. sci-fi, because of the "fi" part.)

I really don't like the attitude I see more and more towards the "average joe" on this site, as if to imply some kind of moral superiority. Everyone has different interests and just because something doesn't appeal to the majority of the population, doesn't mean it's stupid or they're afraid of it or don't understand it. It just means they don't like it. Same as art, same as music, same as everything else.

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My Webcomic: Asylum on 5th Street
Re:Pure science fiction will never sell. by OriginalChops · 2004-04-27 22:02 · Score: 1

Nonsence! Thers no such thing as pure science fiction to start with...

You dont need to understand it at all. Understand what in any case? Techno-babble? Give me a break.

You can sell ANYTHING. Just look at Telly-Tubbies for god sakes! Even adults were watching that crap for a while.

The only reason stuff gets canseled is poor market management.
Re:Pure science fiction will never sell. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 23:13 · Score: 0

(Again, myself included, though I'm less interested in speculative science... a.k.a. sci-fi, because of the "fi" part.)
You don't like any kind of fiction? Or do you actually mean that you don't like the particular combination of science and fiction, but other fiction is okay. In that case your problem is really with the "-" part.
Re:Pure science fiction will never sell. by eofpi · 2004-04-27 23:31 · Score: 1

I think the fact that my TV gets about six different Discovery channels, two History channels and a Biography channel proves that there is a large portion of the population that is, in fact, interested in science.
And the fact that the main Discovery channel has been taken over by Monster Garage, Monster House, American Chopper, and the like, and TLC ('The Learning Channel' heh) has become HGTV-lite shows just how much they care about actually giving you things to exercise your brain on.

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Y'know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water.
Re:Pure science fiction will never sell. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 00:06 · Score: 0

Yeah that's how it is in Aus, once you've watched all the forensic decetvies type shows (which just then end up rerunning forever) there's nothing much left on Discovery other than lifestyle shows and what can be best described as psuedo-scientific crap.
The History channel isn't too bad yet, but watching endless "biographies" gets boring.
Atleast the National Geographic Channel is still decent viewing.
Re:Pure science fiction will never sell. by Snaller · 2004-04-28 04:59 · Score: 1

If you ever mature you may realise that what others thing is irrelevant. Be they rabid fans or emenies. The merit of something should not be dependant on who likes or hates it and how they behave.

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If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Re:Pure science fiction will never sell. by pyrrhonist · 2004-04-28 07:51 · Score: 1

I think the fact that my TV gets about six different Discovery channels, two History channels and a Biography channel proves that there is a large portion of the population that is, in fact, interested in science.
You mean the Motorcycle Channel and the War Channel?
Don't forget the Redocorate Someone Else's Home Channel (i.e. TLC).

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Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
Re:Pure science fiction will never sell. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 08:57 · Score: 0

Even adults were watching that crap for a while.
I love that show! The gay one cracks me up!
Re:Pure science fiction will never sell. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 10:36 · Score: 0

I really don't like the attitude I see more and more towards the "average joe" on this site, as if to imply some kind of moral superiority. Everyone has different interests and just because something doesn't appeal to the majority of the population, doesn't mean it's stupid or they're afraid of it or don't understand it. It just means they don't like it. Same as art, same as music, same as everything else.

I see where you're coming from, but I don't agree. I would have before I moved to Montana and received a better look at the "average joe" culture, but I've been simmering in it too long now. What I dislike about the average joe isnt' that he isn't interested in computers, or the other hobbies I have. What I dislike about him is that he's not interested in 'anything' that involves learning. He's interested in drinking, sports, fucking, and getting high. Any and all are great, but there's little else there. There's no spark, no curiosity about the world around him. If he didn't have to work, he wouldn't be using that time to create anything, or learn, he'd just sit around smoking and scratching off lottery tickets.

Still more info found via the boards: by Hungus · 2004-04-27 21:26 · Score: 1

the following is a direct copy of text found in the 2003 Form 10-K (investor information) of Tribune entertainment Page 17 bottom of the page states:
Television:
Shows Seasons Produced(1) Seasons Commitment(2) No.of U.S. Markets % of U.S. Households
Beastmaster"(3) 1999-2002 163 91%
Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda" 2000-2004 2004-2005 190 98 %
Mutant X" 2001-2004 2004-2005 179 97 %

(1)Represents seasons produced by Tribune Entertainment.
(2)Represents future seasons Tribune Entertainment has committed to produce. Tribune Entertainment has ordered production of 2004/2005 seasons of Andromeda and Mutant X and exercised contractual options requiring its financial partner to provide funding , however, Tribune Entertainment's financial partner has commenced litigation which seeks a determination is not obligated to participate in the further financing or production of either series.

Emphesis mine
Grrr stupid lameness filter and formatting ....

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Re:BOO HOO by slycer9 · 2004-04-27 21:36 · Score: 1

And the Wicked Witch of the SouthEast's mother said 'You won't melt, go take your bath!'

Didn't see HER in that movie, did ya?

--
Don't park drunk, accidents cause people.

If all today's sci-fi is so bad by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 21:38 · Score: 1, Interesting

If all today's sci-fi is so bad, what shows are worth watching?
I've started to watch Andromeda just now, I've heard that Lexx is a kick-ass show. Ofcurse I fell in love with Farscape.
SO... Farscape will have 4 more episodes, Andromeda in cancelled and I don't now about Lexx.

What is worth watching which still is in production?

Re:If all today's sci-fi is so bad by gonzoxl5 · 2004-04-27 22:20 · Score: 2, Informative

Lexx was cancelled a few years ago, the first two seasons were the best but the others were also worth watching (even the worst of Lexx was far better than Andromeda or Mutant X at their best).

Stargate has some dodgy moments these days (especially those involving a heavy 'Sam Carter' or 'Jonas Quinn' presence) but generally holds together due to the strength of the other characters - I'm hoping that the Stargate Atlantis spin-off will pick up the baton and start with an early sprint.

ST - Enterprise has some good times and bad times, some good characters and plotlines let down by a lousy captain and a 'soft porn' happy scriptwriter or two, and what is the 'god squad' theme song all about then ?

There are a couple of things I'm really looking forward to :

The Firefly Movie - the series was by far the best sci-fi in recent years, if there is any justice then the movie should result in the commissioning of a new series.

Battlestar Galactica Series - Sci-Fi comissioned a full series of this after the pilot was successful, theres a lot of scope boh in the case and with the writers to do some great stuff with this, certainly theres an opportunity for something that grows on the 'dark' elements of the original without re-creating the 'ham & cheese' that accompanied it first time around.

Farscape mini-series - Announced earlier this month by sci-fi channel, a four hour mini-series that I believe is to be titled 'Peacekeeper War'

but so much good sci-fi has been canned in recent years, the aforementioned Firefly, Lexx and Farscape chief amongst the unjust victims, also gone but not forgotten are Now and Again, Dark Skies, G Vs E, Brimstone and a whole host of other shows that were far more deserving of funding than Andromedaft and Mutant Wrecks!
Re:If all today's sci-fi is so bad by Cro+Magnon · 2004-04-28 01:08 · Score: 1

Well, there's, er no that got cancelled. There's always, er no they axed it too. Well, my favorite was, er wait they killed it last year.

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Re:If all today's sci-fi is so bad by toganet · 2004-04-28 01:57 · Score: 1

And don't forget Invisible Man -- cheesy, yes, but funny, and a fresh spin on the whole notion.

And Good Vs. Evil was one of the funniest SF shows I've seen -- I still remember Richard Brooks' dancing and saying "That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!" after kicking some ass while falling-down drunk.
Re:If all today's sci-fi is so bad by Mulletproof · 2004-04-28 03:42 · Score: 1

"and what is the 'god squad' theme song all about then"

Um, you could look at it that way, but then it is very poetic given the central theme of Enterprise; That being Earths first real footsteps into the stars beyond. I thought it was a nice break from yet more of the vanilla orchestra we've been hearing for the last 15 years, not to mention fitting. Too bad the series couldn't keep that promise. It sucks.

--
You need a FREE iPod Nano
Re:If all today's sci-fi is so bad by Rick+Genter · 2004-04-28 07:04 · Score: 1

"Hey, if you'd been listening you'd know that Nintendos pass through everything."
-Col. Jack O'Neil, SG1
I just saw that episode recently. That was one of the funniest lines I've heard in a SciFi show in a long time. Sometimes it's overdone, but generally I really like the humor portrayed through O'Neil's dialogue...

--
Don't underestimate the power of The Source

To hell with em, Dr. Who is returning! by mrshowtime · 2004-04-27 21:48 · Score: 2, Interesting

Really, Mutant X was beyond horrid and Andromeda had some good moments, but both were shitty in just about every aspect. But, this brings up an interesting topic; what is left to watch that is "Sci-Fi?" Stargate? Enterprise? What else? I am so beyond glad that the best Sci-fi show EVER is coming back, Dr. Who of course!

--
"Jeremy, you need to get to an internet cafe and cut and paste some appropriate sentiments about me from the world wide

Re:To hell with em, Dr. Who is returning! by Walt+Dismal · 2004-04-27 22:50 · Score: 1

They'll manage to screw up even the Doctor. "Hello, I'm Dr Who. You may wonder how I've managed to survive all these years. I'm here to tell you I use Depends, the soft, cushiony undergarment. It'll take a beating without any leaking. Daleks scare the crap out of everybody, but in my case I feel secure knowing I'm protected from leaks while running away." TV execs have the anti Midas touch.
Re:To hell with em, Dr. Who is returning! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 22:53 · Score: 0

EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!

If the new Dr. Who screws up the Daleks, I'll be pissed. They are upside-down garbage cans waving toilet plungers in a menacing manner and screaming EXTERMINATE! at the tops of their phlegmatic bleeding biomechanically maintained lungs. They cannot climb stairs, yet they are still a force to be feared and reckoned with. Daleks rock like nothing else. The show must retain the essence of the Dalek or risk losing the magic.

Good riddance to Andreckeda. I'd rather watch the Gold Digging Whores or Cockroach Gargling Factor shows than that thing.

75 by brucmack · 2004-04-27 21:50 · Score: 1

I was under the impression that 75 is the magic number for a show to be sold into syndication... That was the supposed reasoning behind making sure there was another Sopranos season, to get it to or past 75 episodes.

Re:75 by LostCluster · 2004-04-28 04:16 · Score: 1

100's the magic number to be sucessful with a so-so series. 75 is a level you can suvive at if you're good, see also Star Trek, Futurama, and a few other big-following shows. Anything less and you're a dead show walking.

Of course science does not sell... by tizzyD · 2004-04-27 22:10 · Score: 4, Insightful

Really, even look at CSI. It's not a show about the science of forensic analysis, how they can use DNA to determine a 1 in a billion chance of who did it, or how lasers help them solve crimes. It's about the story. It's always been about the story.

Consider the oldest stories, like the Indian epic the Mahabharata or the Greek's Iliad. It's not about the wars or conflicts. It's about the interplay between people. It's always been about the context of the people. We as people want to see other people experiencing things.

Now, look at the lastest successful sci-fi, IMHO Babylon 5. Sure, they made space fighting a lot more realistic. But it was the story of the Shadows vs. the Vorlons, Sheridan's heroic sacrifice on Z'ha'dum, and the betrayal of Garibaldi. Really, look at this summary about the conflict:

The Shadows, awakened years earlier from a millenium-long slumber on their ancestral home of Z'ha'dum, gradually made their presence known, and their purpose became clear: weeding out the weak and defenseless among the younger races to promote rapid evolution. Moving largely behind the scenes, they set the younger races upon one another, causing wars and inciting genocide. The Shadows are the embodiment of the question, "What do you want?" They seek not military victory, but philosophical dominance, a universe in which younger races scramble madly to attain their goals without regard for the consequences. Such an environment demands chaos, and it's chaos the Shadows have so effectively brought upon the major races.
When the other First Ones departed for reasons of their own, the Vorlons were left behind to oppose the Shadow philosophy. If the Shadows represent chaos, the Vorlons are lords of order: they seek the same outcome, the advancement of younger races, but on their terms, whether their charges like it or not. The Vorlons prefer to ask the question, "Who are you?" It is a question that leads to introspection and spiritual growth, but not to expansion or scientific advancement.
Unfortunately, the struggle between the two philosophies is played out not among the ancients, but among the younger races, unwitting pawns in a game few yet realize is being played.

Little here talks about science, the reality of evolution, or the underlying science. It's about philosophy, life, and the questions we all encounter along our own life. That's the story, and that's what made it more interesting than any show about cool tools. It's never been about the tools. They just get us to start watching. It's always been about the relationships, whether we want to admit it or not.

--
...tizzyd

Re:Of course science does not sell... by eofpi · 2004-04-27 23:34 · Score: 1

That's what made Farscape such a good show. Andromeda did it much more often than either Enterprise or Voyager, so I consider it a better show than either.

--
Y'know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water.
Re:Of course science does not sell... by _Sprocket_ · 2004-04-28 03:21 · Score: 1

Is that before or after Sorbo axed their main writer? I seem to remember Sorbo wanted to take the show in more directions. More boom, less talk.
Re:Of course science does not sell... by master_p · 2004-04-28 10:23 · Score: 1

The funny thing is that the above statement is true for me, also: although I like science fiction, and I have read some, my fascination is with Space Battleship Yamato: nonsense science, but the best soap opera there is.

And there are guys who swear by SBY. Once upon a time, there was party where people (now in their mid 30s) shouted "Desslok - Desslok - Desslok" for fun.

People remember soap operas, but not science fiction.

That's why I am suprised no one has touched Star Blazers / Space Battleship Yamato. It will sell like hot cakes (if the basic tone is kept and brought up to date, of course).
Re:Of course science does not sell... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 12:27 · Score: 0

Sweet zombie jesus, I'm currently watching through Babylon 5 on DVD (currently 5 eps into season 2), and a little spoiler space would have gone a LONG way.
Re:Of course science does not sell... by stonecypher · 2004-04-28 21:10 · Score: 1

Well, sure, except that the show is phenomenally shallow, the actors are made of plywood, and the plots are generally of toilet paper quality. Also, really, B5 is just a second-run dungeons and dragons plot, the struggle between chaos and order, where chaos panders to the stupid and order is regularly horrified that people don't fall in line. Frankly, I thought Forgotten Realms did a hell of a lot better job.

Also, B5 made space fighting more realistic? In the immortal words of Brian, "Can I buy some pot from you?" B5's space fighting was clearly the result of a bad video game. Apparently you also don't know a damned thing about inertia. This is not to suggest that I can name a show that's done it well, but really, raising the bar from the bottom of the septic tank to just below the shitter line is nothing to brag about. The thing it one upped was old Battlestar Galactica. That's not something to brag about.

--
StoneCypher is Full of BS

Re:Yet another quality Slashdot communitycancellat by boris_the_hacker · 2004-04-27 22:35 · Score: 1

Thank god it's not a new hope!

--
chris at darkrock dot co dot uk
http colon slash slash www dot darkrock dot co dot uk

LOL by quantaq · 2004-04-27 22:44 · Score: 1

"Science fiction fans may be dismayed to learn that "Mutant X" and "Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda" have been cancelled..."

Whew! That was a bit too intense of a laugh this early in the morning.
But seriously folks, is anyone really gonna weep over the loss of another Kevin Sorbo show?

Re:LOL by prescot6 · 2004-04-27 23:36 · Score: 1

But seriously folks, is anyone really gonna weep over the loss of another Kevin Sorbo show?

I thought about weeping. But Kevin Sorbo is a phoenix, sure to rise again. This is the hope that keeps me going. [/sarcasm]

good scifi? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-27 22:49 · Score: 0

IMO
Mutant X - should have been called Mutant Sex. Scripts where about of the same quality!

Andromeda - better but not brilliant!

Enterprise - if it moved at the same pace as Fascape did it could have been brilliant. I find myself sleeping through most eps (nothing else to watch on a Monday)

Farscape - yeay mini series this was an excellent show!

Firefly - also excellent should not have be canned, but what you gonna do Fox didnt want make it to start with.

Scifi? by Mukaikubo · 2004-04-27 22:49 · Score: 2, Interesting

The SciFi channel is in a "Oh my God, you want us to SPEND MONEY on PRODUCTION!?" phase. They kinda forgot the spending money part of "You have to spend money to make money" proposition... Witness, Farscape, and only funding a measly 4 extra episodes after the biggest fan backlash in history against them, and every company that advertises with them.

Re:Scifi? by Mukaikubo · 2004-04-27 22:54 · Score: 1

*cough*

This was, er, supposed to be a reply to one of the posts speculating that Scifi would bring the show back to get it to 100 eps.

Oh, just go ahead and mod me offtopic. So embarrassing to do this early in the morning...
Re:Scifi? by denis-The-menace · 2004-04-28 01:53 · Score: 2, Insightful

The SciFi channel is in a "Oh my God, you want us to SPEND MONEY on PRODUCTION!?" phase.

Try the entire TV industry. Unless it's cheap to make and extremely sucessful (Ie: Friends) they are "gambling".

In the old 13 channel universe, they could get with having so-so shows that developed into great shows over 1-2 season period. viewers had no choice to watch filler sometimes. The rating system was primitive so that bad shows may not show as such for months.

In a our 500 channel universe, however, filler shows do not last more than 4 shows, never mind even 1/2 a season! The rating system delivers real-time numbers. The only thing they are willing to "Gamble" on is BS-reality shows because they know that viewers do not have attachments to these types of shows.

--
Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration

Two things we should think about. by Yo+Grark · 2004-04-27 22:56 · Score: 4, Informative

1. Mutant X was not a cheesy ripoff of X-men, it was sanctioned by Marvel in a struggling time and helped keep Marvel going even in a small capacity. Besides it was filmed in Canada, most in Toronto, how much quality can you REALLY get? :P

2. Andromeda WAS good with good story arcs till Sorbo decided that his "fans" couldn't handle anything more than 1 story long and became "episode adventures" after he fired a true writing guru...

"Robert Hewitt Wolfe has parted company with the last bastion of scifi for people with half a brain - Andromeda. Wolfe said: "Basically, they want the show to be more action driven, more Dylan-centric, and more episodic. They also want more aliens, more space battles, and less internal conflict among the principal characters. Also, they want a lot less continuity so as not to confuse the casual or new viewer with too much backstory."

Well congrats Sorbo, your simple plan worked perfectly. Maybe they'll invite you back on a Young Hercules episode. Wait...that was cancelled too you say? HA!

Yo Grark

--
Canadian Bred with American Buttering

Re:Two things we should think about. by prescot6 · 2004-04-27 23:39 · Score: 1

it was filmed in Canada, most in Toronto, how much quality can you REALLY get?

So you're saying we should blame...
Re:Two things we should think about. by Scrameustache · 2004-04-28 00:01 · Score: 1

1. Mutant X was not a cheesy ripoff of X-men, it was sanctioned by Marvel

Mutant X, the show where the wise leader of a group of young mutants with extraordinary powers fight crime and prejudice using their secret base and their freakin' black stealth jet plane that comes out from under a waterfall?
Yeah, that's not a rip-off of the comic book where the wise leader of a group of young mutants with extraordinary powers fight crime and prejudice using their secret base and their black stealth jet plane that comes out from under a waterfall...jeez!

Marvel ripped itself off. Self-plagiarism is still plagiarism, no matter what the lawyers try to make you believe.

2. Andromeda WAS good

Now you're just lying through your teeth. That show was crap from day 1. It was Hercules, in space.
Bad acting, bad designs, bad writing, bad all around. Guys watched it for the hot babes, girls watched it for the hot guys, the rest of the show was just filler, excuses and pretences for the presence of beautifull people.
Inane drivel.

Don't get me started on an entire alien race that has to wear bracers to support their lame ass arm spikes...urgh

--
You can't take the sky from me...
Re:Two things we should think about. by Snaller · 2004-04-28 05:04 · Score: 1

Andromeda WAS good

I disagree. It never was.

--
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Re:Two things we should think about. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 05:51 · Score: 0

You really should pay attention to how much is filmed in Canada. On any given day there are several big budget US productions doing something or the other in Toronto. Ultimately, quality is probably highly correlated with budget. Filming in Canada is a matter of economics, unrelated to prodcution values.
Re:Two things we should think about. by Dimensio · 2004-04-28 06:28 · Score: 1

Mutant X, the show where the wise leader of a group of young mutants with extraordinary powers fight crime and prejudice using their secret base and their freakin' black stealth jet plane that comes out from under a waterfall?

You're forgetting one important detail.

In X-Men, the mutants had useful mutant abilities. In Mutant X, the mutants had to deal with mutant abilities that were next to worthless. It was like "Mutant Academy" with all of the students at the level of Jubilee.

--
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
Re:Two things we should think about. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 08:43 · Score: 0

Blame FoxNews wannabe CanWest!

Seriously, these guys couldn't do an original show to save their life. Heck, they took a reletively sucessfull comedy show (from CTV) and managed to drive it into the ground.

Stick to running imports guys :)

That's sad... by NateKid · 2004-04-27 22:59 · Score: 2, Informative

Andromeda could have been a great show. The Nietzscheans were a terrific race, I'd hazard to say a bizarre melding of the Vulcans, Klingons and Borg. I thought the acting was great and the whole show had a happy-go-lucky campiness about it.

I stopped watching it, though, because it pissed me off constantly. I never saw a show fall so far short of its potential.

Interesting note - some writer said the Nietzscheans were going to be called the Dawkinites (or something similar) initially, because they strongly echoed parts of Dawkins' thought, but that was abandoned because it didn't have enough of a ring to it. But I loved the Nietzschean attitudes, they seemed like one of the all-time best misreadings of Nietzsche...and once again, it makes me sad to think what the show could have been if the writing staff worked a little harder...

Re:That's sad... by gonzoxl5 · 2004-04-27 23:13 · Score: 1

What's even sadder is that it lasted so long after RHW left before being put out of its misery.

Andromeda was going in the right direction until Wolfe departed, the Magog world-ship had introduced a long term direction and the opportunity for a strong arc along the lines of the DS9 dominion wars (best multi-series arc ever in sci-fi IMHO).

Then Sorbo flexed his muscles and it all became a giant ego trip...
Re:That's sad... by Gulik · 2004-04-28 01:00 · Score: 1

Interesting note - some writer said the Nietzscheans were going to be called the Dawkinites (or something similar) initially, because they strongly echoed parts of Dawkins' thought, but that was abandoned because it didn't have enough of a ring to it. But I loved the Nietzschean attitudes, they seemed like one of the all-time best misreadings of Nietzsche...

Actually, I thought they made some heavy hints a couple of times that the Nietzscheans were actually Objectivists. Most glaring was the fact that the Nietzschean homeworld was "Fountainhead," and there was one episode early on (first season, I think) where a scene opens with Tyr lounging in the captain's chair reading _Atlas Shrugged_.

Re:on the other hand... Mutant eXcruciating. by FauxReal · 2004-04-27 23:00 · Score: 2, Insightful

It was like a grown up 90210 with only pretty people allowed. But it is nice to see that a secret superhero crew can find the time to get the latest in high maintenace hairstyles. Not to mention it had 70s style special effects made with 21st century technology.

Mutant X was so bad it made my teeth hurt.

--
Deltron 3030 - Virus (music video)

Wow , even kindergartens have been given XP now! by Viol8 · 2004-04-27 23:15 · Score: 1

Are there no depths that MS won't sink to??

About time by dherman · 2004-04-27 23:19 · Score: 1

Both of those shows jumped the shark in their 2nd seasons. This is a mercy killing.

Re:Yet another quality Slashdot communitycancellat by mshiltonj · 2004-04-27 23:26 · Score: 1

What's next - Lucasfilm is cancelling Episode III!!?!?

We can only hope.

--
Software Wars

another one bites the stardust by phrostie · 2004-04-27 23:27 · Score: 1

shame, i'll miss Andromeda. Mutant X always looked cool, but i never got into the storyline.

Nothing, so go out and live! by goldspider · 2004-04-27 23:30 · Score: 1

Seriously, there's other things to do out there besides sit in front of the idiot box night after night.

Why waste time search for something "new" to watch, when there's probably a million things outside your apartment/nouse/parents' basement that you haven't done.

--
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy

Re:Nothing, so go out and live! by Richy_T · 2004-04-30 04:20 · Score: 1

Bang on. I'm currently letting the "have to watch" shows on my list come to the end of their run and then avoiding picking up any new shows. The only reason to watch them is because you've become familiar with their characters. Come in on the middle of most series and the predicaments that mean so much to others seem pretty trivial when you don't know the character. Better to avoid it in the first place.

Gotta love my Tivo. Channel surfing is the primary cause of TV addiction in my opinion.

Rich

My solution. Stop watching until DVD. by guidryp · 2004-04-27 23:46 · Score: 1

I love sci-fi binging and I am completely tired of trying to find where they moved the show this week. This started for me with B5 which someone loaned me on tape. I don't think I would have got thru the first season if I were watching weekly. But when binging it you are completely absorbed like reading a book.

I was a fan of Stargate, but now that it is in full syndication and new episodes are few and far between, it is annoyingly impossible to find the new episodes.

Now I have made the conscious decision to stop watching new series off air. I'll watch on DVD when they properly finish the series.

Re:My solution. Stop watching until DVD. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 01:10 · Score: 0

New episodes are Friday night, on SciFi.

It is likely that the rights to Andromeda will.... by voss · 2004-04-27 23:58 · Score: 1

be bought by sci-fi channel. Since there was only more season, sci-fi can make that last season then have a ready to go series to fill afternoon time slots like they do with Kevin Sorbos other series Hercules.

Good riddance to bad rubbish by a_peckover · 2004-04-28 00:01 · Score: 1

In an age where the futures of vastly superior shows sci-fi/fantasy like Enterprise (struggling to survive), Angel (cancelled) and Firefly (cancelled) are in question, it was frightening to see this rubbish picked up year after year.

It's just a shame that it took the production company being shut down to do it.

Andromeda by Michalson · 2004-04-28 00:03 · Score: 1

Andromeda canceled after 4 seasons? I thought they canceled it after 2 seasons and replaced it with the "Kevin Sorbo 'acts' out a script written by a 3 year old hour".

Season 1 was an ok Sci-fi show. Season 2 was bumpy but watchable. Season 3 Sorbo fired his good writer for writing episodes too complex for Hercules to follow. This resulted in the first time I have ever stopped watching a Sci-fi show mid episode because it was such total trash.

thank god by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 00:03 · Score: 0

Andromeda really sucked!

I was pissed when they cancelled Xena: Warrior Princess but Andromeda was too corny.

Er, *my* Andromeda isn't cancelled! by turnstyle · 2004-04-28 00:23 · Score: 1

This Slashdot story freaked me out for a sec! My Andromeda lives on... ;)

--
Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda

Finally by Snaller · 2004-04-28 00:28 · Score: 2, Interesting

Now perhaps we'll get to see Lexa Doig (Rommie) on Stargate SG1, she's married to Michael Shanks who plays Dr. Jackson on that show - (damn him) - he's done a guest show on Andromeda, so there was talk about her doing the opposite.

--
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating

Re:Finally by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 08:13 · Score: 0

I don't like the chances. There's not much of Stargate SG-1 left, reportedly.

Re:Yet another quality Slashdot communitycancellat by JollyFinn · 2004-04-28 00:36 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Here is the rerun.
goat.cx

--
Emacs is good operating system, but it has one flaw: Its text editor could be better.

I think creative people should never try... by dnahelix · 2004-04-28 00:41 · Score: 1

Because a bunch of nerds will just say they suck.

Sarcasm aside, I find it really sad that people can't seem to appreciate the attempt of doing something creative (and massively challenging). Sure it wasn't that great, but can't we learn from it? Can't we look at something and say, "It's not that appealing, to me, but I'm so happy someone attempted this thing. Where would we be if no one tried to create thier vision?"

Thank You Andromeda.
Thank You Mutant X.

--
Slashdot Eds Link Anonymous Posts With Logged Posts
They Are Vermin Feeding On Each Other's Feces.
I Hate \.

Re:I think creative people should never try... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 01:56 · Score: 0

There's a difference between vision and smearing feces on a script.
Re:I think creative people should never try... by Almond+Tree · 2004-04-28 02:34 · Score: 0

Here's a concept. How about a survivor show for network programming executives? Every week we could take one out and shoot them. That should be incentive enough to improve what's on TV. It used to be there were only three channels and always something interesting to watch. Now we have hundreds of channels and nothing worth watching.

--
bau bau chicka chicka mau mau
Re:I think creative people should never try... by dnahelix · 2004-04-29 02:58 · Score: 1

Then YOU do something better.

--
Slashdot Eds Link Anonymous Posts With Logged Posts
They Are Vermin Feeding On Each Other's Feces.
I Hate \.

How wrong can you be? by WIAKywbfatw · 2004-04-28 00:43 · Score: 1

1. X-Files was filmed in Canada: I don't hear too many people disparaging that for being filmed there, so there goes you poor excuse for a joke.

2. Andromeda was good for even a split second? Are you Steve Jobs? You must be because your reality distortion field is on overdrive.

--

"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg

Sorry, but good Riddance to the both of them! by TygerFish · 2004-04-28 01:24 · Score: 1

I'm a big science-fiction lover from way back. I think science fiction is generally something that can be described as what you read before you stumble across literature but at it's best, it's stunning and it can make the kinds of comments about human nature that it only it and great literature are up to.

Unfortunately, neither Mutant X, nor Andromeda ever walked into the same aircraft hanger as greatness and, in Mutant X's case, the distance was amazing: it really was an hour of vaccuum--like watching Xmen movies without even the attraction of character references.

Mutant X was pathetic but Andromeda was worse because there were dozens of wonderfully intelligent things it could have been--some of which it tried for at first--but it ended up crippled for a number of reasons, many of which I suspect had to do with Kevin Sorbo's effect on the medium of the fantastic.

The series was so bad, that there were times when watching Andromeda made you wish that you had access so you could ask the right people the right questions and get a straight answer.

First off, as very few people I've seen have noted, there are a lot of general similarities between the dismal Andromeda and the sublime 'Blake's Seven'--both of which involved tiny crews rattling around in big ships and pursuing goals which bring them into conflict with one another and galactic scale civilizations.

Both of them used ideas from sci-fi that was 'out there,' stuff that was so archtypically science fiction in language and scale, that you could hardly imagine it anywhere else. But if these things provide both series with similarities, it is also in them that the two series part ways.

Blake's seven was good because it offered one good script after another set in a huge, complex universe in which technology and glitz took a back seat to real drama and everything boiled down to questions of the limits of good and evil: what people were willing to do for and to one another under pressure.

In Andromeda, they replaced the deep conflict between Blake and Avon, with the simplistic, good hero/bad-hero interaction of Dylan and Tyr.

If that by itself is not enough to make the show an absolute waste, there is 'the spin-kick factor.'

In a universe rife with terrible darkness (the Magog) and high poetry (the ship: 'the Andromeda Ascendant; a Nietzschean probe: 'Deep Midnight's Voice') the writers, producers and directors could find nothing better to serve up week after week, than sparkly weapon blasts and spin kicks until watching Andromeda was so much like watching 'Xena, Warrior Princess,' or the lamentable 'Hercules, the legendary journeys,' that every episode left you ready to cringe as you waited for someone to jump thirty feet while screeching out a ululating battle-cry.

So, the short form on Andromeda, like Mutant X, really is, 'good riddance.'

Mutant X was crap that accomplished nothing but reminding you of how long you had to wait until you got to see the next X-Men movie; while for its part, Andromeda reminded you that science fiction's best intentions are less than nothing when the dominant voices in a project demand that every moment of every show be ready for Sesame Street.

We all love science fiction and want to protect it, but the thought behind Andromeda and Mutant X invariably disproves the phrase, 'something is better than nothing.'

--
To mail me, remove the 'mailno' from my email addy.
"Yeah. It smells, too..."

It's on the Sci-Fi channel now by unsinged+int · 2004-04-28 01:37 · Score: 1

And they've been running ads promising new episodes, so until they say otherwise I'm inclined to believe that.

Re:Yet another quality Slashdot communitycancellat by gwayne · 2004-04-28 01:38 · Score: 1

Sorry, they already made "A New Hope".

Maybe Episode III's title will be "A New, New Hope" or "Assault on My Senses" or even "Doh!"

So what you're saying is... by kulakovich · 2004-04-28 01:39 · Score: 1

...Enterprise has a chance in Hell now that pretty much all Sci Fi is dead-ending in the next 365.

Personally, I do think that Andromeda has a great chance of being picked up, and agree with earlier remarks on writing quality. Without changing the thread, Enterprise has had a turnaround in the past season with the Xindi plot, and if they would simply steal more from Horatio Hornblower instead of Days of Our Lives, they'd have a great chance at staying power.

Let's face it, I doubt SciFi can afford them both!

kulakovich

ps - If there is a SciFi hole in the line-up, we'd better bolt the door. Spelling will be there in no time!

Andromeda was OK by Trolling4Dollars · 2004-04-28 01:45 · Score: 1

But Mutant X was incredibly lame. The music sucked. The acting sucked. The stories REALLY sucked. There was more sucking going on in that series than a gang-bang movie featuring Anna Malle. I remember the first and ONLY episode I ever saw had this "hacker" with some really lame looking "hacker tool" that was made out of a Nissan Sentra A/C control panel, a laptop and some goofy junk all thrown together in a briefcase. They lost me at that moment for good. Even Cleopatra 2525 has more intellectual content than Mutant X. And I HATED Cleopatra 2525.

--
Un-news

"Dismayed?" by KC7GR · 2004-04-28 01:48 · Score: 1

Not likely. I was much more dismayed when a far more promising series that some may remember, called "Farscape," was cancelled. To this day, I still don't understand why SciFi was stupid enough to can a show that was carrying Number-One ratings. Thankfully, they seem to have (finally!) realized their error (as evidenced by the fact that they're financing the production of the miniseries).

As for 'Andromeda' -- It held my interest for maybe three episodes. Kevin Sorbo and a starship just didn't seem to go together. Now, if they'd tossed in some subtle-yet-silly references to 'Hercules,' that might have made the difference.

And while we're on the topic of Gene Roddenberry series that go stale, what about "Earth: Final Conflict?" It had IMMENSE potential, and pretty decent writing -- until they killed off Boone's character, and Tribune Entertainment got their grubby little mitts into it. The only good episode after that was the series finale (and you knew it really WAS the finale because Sandoval's character was done in!)

I can only hope that "Tripping the Rift," "Scare Tactics," and "Mad Mad House" meet the same fate as "Andromeda" and "Mutant X."

--

Bruce Lane, KC7GR,

Blue Feather Technologies

Re:"Dismayed?" by dentar · 2004-04-28 02:48 · Score: 1

I can understand scare tactics and mad mad house, but tripping the rift is damn funny!!

that's the only thing i make sure i catch on scifi anymore!!

--
-- I am. Therefore, I think!
Re:"Dismayed?" by Shadwhawk · 2004-04-28 04:19 · Score: 1

Not likely. I was much more dismayed when a far more promising series that some may remember, called "Farscape," was cancelled. To this day, I still don't understand why SciFi was stupid enough to can a show that was carrying Number-One ratings.

Actually, at the time, Farscape was #2. Stargate's first season on Sci-Fi had surpassed Farscape (due largely, IMO, to an already existing fanbase, a less complicated and important backstory, and more episodic episodes).

Still, it's like NBC canceling ER because it wasn't doing as good as Friends.

What about Jeremiah? by The_Whole_Fn_Show · 2004-04-28 01:53 · Score: 2, Interesting

First off, I refuse to call Mutant X "sci fi", b/c that's insulting to all of the great sci fi shows that exist(ed). Andromeda was more like VIP, if I didn't feel like thinking (at all) for an hour, I could handle it, but you were never going to see anything worth mentioning.

I've never seen Firefly, as watching 2 minutes of Dark Angel had me convinced that the big four networks were incapable of putting out any good sci fi. If it's as good as everyone says, I may have to check it out.

B5 was pretty good, and I'm already sad over the impending end of SG-1 (especially if they screw up Atlantis, which I have a feeling they will), but I was rather suprised to see the end of Jeremiah.

Granted, they covered in one season what I thought should have been at least a 3 season arc, and then kind of lost their way, but it was a far superior show to either Mutant X or Andromeda. It was a rather dark show w/ interesting characters. I thought that Perry and Warner were very good, especially considering the cheezy crap that they've worked on previously. And almost every episode has at least one cool moment (Perry laying on the gas filling the semi trailer w/ exhaust to try to kill some punks, Astin talking a guy into grenading himself and his thugs, etc.). The only entertaining moment from Mutant X was from an early episode when Vicky Pratt was fighting w/ someone. They zoomed in on a kick she threw, but only showed a close up of her ass. I laughed about that for quite some time.

I wish they'd bring back shows like Jeremiah, Family Guy, Futurama, Farscape (though I didn't get into it until nearly the end) for starters. Shows like Andromeda or Mutant X should go the way of Odyssey 5, dead and stay that way.

Re:What about Jeremiah? by Wylfing · 2004-04-28 02:42 · Score: 1

I've never seen Firefly
Wh-what? Can those words be put together to make a sentence?

--
Our intelligent designer has never created an animal that we couldn't improve by strapping a bomb to it.

DS9...Huh? by Prototerm · 2004-04-28 02:13 · Score: 0, Troll

modern Trek's high point was DS9

You're calling "Deep Six 9" the highpoint of Trek? Pa-leeze! When the high point of a series is a character like Quark and his brother, it's time to hang-up the old phaser.

Shows like DS9, Andromeda, and Mutant-X are the kind of shows that give Sci-Fi a bad name. Of course, the SciFi channel itself tends to give SciFi a bad name with its awful made-for-trashcan movies, but that's a topic for another day.

As for Enterprise, with any luck, its last episode will change history so that the entire series will never have existed. One could only hope.

--
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Senator Carl Schurz (1872)

Re:DS9...Huh? by Em+Ellel · 2004-04-28 02:38 · Score: 1

Just because it was the highpoint does not mean it was good..

--
RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
Re:DS9...Huh? by Chalybeous · 2004-04-28 02:40 · Score: 3, Interesting

No, I'm calling it the high point of modern (post-1987, non-theatrical) Trek. Sure, like any show, it had trash and treasure - but it also had some well-made, thoughtful episodes, a reasonably good Dominion War arc, and the lovingly produced 30th anniversary special, "Trials and Tribbleations". Remember, even TOS had "Spock's Brain" - and weighing it up on my favourite episodes, it outshines TNG, Voyager and Enterprise. Of course, DS9 will never be as good as classic Trek...

It's not the best TV scifi ever made, but it beats the pants off Voyager!
(The best recent scifi are the three Fs - Farscape, Firefly and Futurama!)

--
"It is dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue." -- Zork
Re:DS9...Huh? by Archfeld · 2004-04-28 05:36 · Score: 1

DS9 made me ill. I love the old trek's, but I'd MUCH rather watch TNG, or heck even LOST in SPACE over DS9. Voyager was probably the only thing worse than DS9, I have got to back you there. As for recent Sci-Fi check out Tripping the Rift, I am really enjoying that, hope it lasts, and Red Dwarf is also very much worth seeing.

--
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Re:DS9...Huh? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 14:09 · Score: 0

TNG had much better characters, (add actors) while DS9 had a better setting and somewhat more intriguing storyline.

I'd like to just combine the best of the two and perhaps add some sex scenes with 7 of 9 in the mix, we'd have the television equivalent of crack cocaine.

Lets be clear here... they both suck... bad by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 02:27 · Score: 0

Seriously, MutantX? Who watches that tripe. It's pure unadulterated crap. Awful. One of the worst shows ever. Andromeda had some potential, but Sorbo is just not good in the role and some of the writing is weak at best.

Lets talk about Bab5 or Farscape. Now there was some good modern Sci Fi that lost out due to mishandling and limited vision (profit focus) on the part of channels and providers.

It staggers the mind to think that people considered Buffy good or even watchable... most painful series ever, it's fandom based on god only knows what.

And Enterprise is a total joke from day one.

Re:Lets be clear here... they both suck... bad by oroshana · 2004-04-28 08:43 · Score: 1

Bab5 lost out? I thought they finished the story? I liked where it finished. I enjoyed every second of the show, and I wouldn't add anything. Farscape, *grunt-sigh* bastards!

Re:Yet another quality Slashdot communitycancellat by Tackhead · 2004-04-28 02:28 · Score: 1

> Maybe Episode III's title will be "A New, New Hope" or "Assault on My Senses" or even "Doh!"

In an effort to go for a more adult crowd, Lucas drops the cutesy stuff. "Jar-Jar Does Coruscant"

Too much depending on bottom line. by MtViewGuy · 2004-04-28 02:30 · Score: 1

Let's face it folks: the cancellation of Andromeda and Mutant X is due to the fact these shows aren't exactly cheap to produce on a per-episode basis.

Indeed, why do you think that there are increasing less and less one-hour drama shows on TV? Such shows can cost into the millions on a per episode basis, even more for sciene-fiction oriented shows like Firefly.

And sitcom comedy shows are suffering the same fate, too. With actors and actresses demending top dollar salaries on a per episode basis, small wonder why sitcom comedy shows are suffering, especially with the end of Friends and Frazier on NBC next month.

This has resulted in an explosion of reality shows on TV in the last few years. What makes reality shows so attractive to network executives is the fact they are VERY cheap to produce, so if the show becomes a major hit (e.g., The Apprentice and American Idol), the networks make a huge profit out of the show.

The late Paddy Chayefsky (who wrote the script for the movie Network back in 1976) would be absolutely stunned at the fact even his vision of a depraved TV network is nothing compared to what is now on TV in 2004.

I fell in love with La Femme Nikita by lone_knight · 2004-04-28 02:37 · Score: 1

You have to admit, in the first season La Femme Nikita had some of the BEST coreographed action scenes to ever grace a Television series. The storyline actually possessed a level of intelligence above that of your average sea slug, too. Inconceivable. Some of the later seasons began to drag, and they ditched the action sequences for some pretty lame soap-drama between the main characters, but all in all I was pretty sad to see that series go.

--
Computers are useless. They can only give answers. --Pablo Picasso

Re:Too bad... I AGREE! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 02:43 · Score: 1, Funny

So you're saying Andomeda was *better* than DS9?

I wholeheartedly agree! But lest not forget the pinnacle of the genre "Homeboys in Space." If you missed it, check it out sometime... I'm sure it'll be right up your alley.

Jeremiah by DikSeaCup · 2004-04-28 02:47 · Score: 1

Suffered from interference from the network (Showtime) - JMS left after season 2.

Also, they'd air the first runs but would never show the reruns in the same time slot; they'd always switch to a different show.

--
I talk about stuff.

Firefly by Nf1nk · 2004-04-28 02:47 · Score: 1

I own the firefly DVD. I love it. ...but I can see why it was cancelled.
-too expensive the computer animation was top notch and used libraly, the casts were frequently huge. The sets magnificent. on a first season show this spells disaster.
-The episode were not shown in order. a cardnal sin in dealing with Joss whedons work. worse they didn't show the pilot until after the show was canceled
-culture clashes. its good SF to show how rolls can change over time. Its bad for a TV show to put a prostitute as a respected memeber of society. The "moral majority" can be very vocal and can cause advertisers to pull out.

--
I used to have a cool sig, back when I cared

Re:Firefly by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 13:55 · Score: 0

-there wasn't that much computer animation; a few minutes in each show, tops. And computer animation ain't that expensive anymore.

-showing the episodes out of order was the boneheaded decision of Fox, who wanted to cancel the show from the git-go.

-hardly anyone saw the show, so the "moral majority" never got a chance to complain, and besides that is a lame excuse anyway, since the target audience wasn't moral majority types, hence useless to threaten advertisers, and anyway there are a lot of much more "morally questionable" TV shows out their for the "moral majority types" to complain about. Firefly would never have registered on their radar.

Fox marketed the show wrong (to the extent they marketed it at all), with totally lame and misleading advertising, they forced some changes on the show which Joss Whedon didn't want (ie, The Train Job), Fox put the show on a "death row time slot" when no one would watch, and then preempted it for baseball a few times, and finally they aired the show out of order. So even the handful of people who made the effort to find and watch Firefly, didn't benefit from the proper setup and story arc which Joss Whedon had intended.

Does this sound like Fox ever had any intentions of letting the show find its audience? No, it does not.
Re:Firefly by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 14:01 · Score: 0

...also Firefly wasn't as expensive as some other sci fi shows, because it did not have aliens, and thus didn't require a lot of expensive makeup and prosthetic work.
Re:Firefly by OriginalChops · 2004-04-28 18:24 · Score: 1

The whole theme was Wild West in space... And the "Moral Majority" meaning the US are a bunch of hypocrits if they froun at the escort. Since back in WW this was a pretty common occurence.

I do agree with the episodes beng a little to expensive and not shown in order. Thats what killed it.

But I still say its all down to bad marketing, bad management and general bad taste.

If you ask me, Andromeda was already cancelled... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 03:05 · Score: 1, Insightful

...because everything after the first season sucked.

I loved the first season of Andromeda. The scripts were intelligent, the science was intelligent, the crew was interesting, and their ongoing mission (to restore the Commonwealth) was huge, and seemingly impossible -- just right for good sci-fi.

But then came the second season. They fired the original head writer (he must have been too difficult, asking for authenticity, and crap like that), they dumbed down the scripts (the dialogue became truly painful), and they dumbed down the mission (now it was just to do good in the universe -- I guess an ongoing storyline was also too difficult).

So I stopped watching after the first season.

This is now the second, intelligent, high quality science fiction I've seen started by Majel Barrett (the other was Earth: Final Conflict), just to see it ruined by the studio in the second season.

This suggests to me that Majel is a very intelligent woman. Now, if she could just find a way to keep creative control...

Sci-Fi fans will also be painfully aware of how the studios pulled the rug out from under Firefly, and of the fact that Straczynski is no longer in charge of Jeremiah.

I'd love to see a new studio formed to challenge those bureaucratic monoliths in Hollywood. Instead of trying to compete with the regular networks for the 80% greatest common denominator (i.e. dumb) audience, who watches crap like Fear Factor, and Big Brother, this studio would cater to the niche market -- the 10% who want esoteric programming, that doesn't appeal to the majority.

Such a studio could invest in creative people like Joss Whedon, J. Michael Straczynski, and, yes, Majel Barrett, and trust them to create what appeals to the niche market. And that studio could bypass the current limited-bandwidth broadcast channels (where competition for the majority audience is key), and explore other options, such as Internet broadcasting, or direct-to-DVD sales.

I am dying for some intelligent programming. And, as much as I like the Gilmore Girls, I need some science fiction!!! I WILL PAY MONEY!!! PLEASE, SOMEONE, FILL THIS MARKET NICHE, AND TAKE MY MONEY!!!

Outer Limits by phorm · 2004-04-28 03:11 · Score: 1

While some episodes had nice special effects, many were just based on a really good plot with some decent action.

Some of the best Sci-fi shorts ever - in my opinion - but without un-needed fluff.

So? by JimPooley · 2004-04-28 03:15 · Score: 1

Science fiction fans may be dismayed to learn that "Mutant X" and "Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda" have been cancelled.

Well I'm a science fiction fan, and my thought was "About bloody time!". They were both bollocks.

--

"Information wants to be paid"

I don't know about Archer... by NoMoreNicksLeft · 2004-04-28 03:19 · Score: 1

But Cpt. Kirk was always on the lookout for vulnerable holes.

What about that great new Enterprise intro song? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 03:24 · Score: 0

That's going to kill Enterprise.

Why anyone would want to listen to "get along little doggy" western music at the start of a scifi show is beyond me.

Giddy up there, little enterpirse!

Re:And yet... Earth: Final Conflict by boy_afraid · 2004-04-28 03:28 · Score: 2, Insightful

For a while I tried to get into Earth: Final Conflict, but I couldn't stand the bad costumes or get the whole Plot. I gave up on it and then just recently as it's been on Sci-Fi channel in the mornings while I get dressed, I'm hooked now.

I still don't like the cheesy plots or bad costumes, but I like the underlying struggle and Sci-Fi technology. I love a mystery.

I say good riddance to Andromeda and Mutant X. Who needs to be addicted to more TV? Let's bring some live action ROBOTECH!!

Cancellation. by El+Camino+SS · 2004-04-28 03:29 · Score: 1

What's next - Lucasfilm is cancelling Episode III!!?!?

One can only hope.

That will be the most resentful seven dollars I will ever spend. I feel forced to finish it all.

Andromeda, the sinking ship by Mulletproof · 2004-04-28 03:30 · Score: 1

At the rate Andromeda is going, it may very well be for the best... Am I the only one seeing a marked decline in the script quality over the last season? A lot of the episodes are so disjointed that it's almost a chore to follow anymore. They're nothing like the previous seasons episodes, whose plot and overall story arc were coherant and watchable. Like Enterprise. It's to the point where I can't stand another season like the last one.

If they actually want an audience, NEVER LET THE MONKIES WHO WROTE THE LAST SEASON TOUCH ANOTHER SCRIPT. EVER. Or tell em to lay off the crack.

--
You need a FREE iPod Nano

Hey, speaking of cancellations... by El+Camino+SS · 2004-04-28 03:32 · Score: 1

"Hey! I remember that there was this show once called Farscape, and... Ughhh" /Flaming arrow hits speaker in the chest as horde descends on Slashdot

Sorry, but that's asinine by FunkyRat · 2004-04-28 03:43 · Score: 1

That's like walking into a restaurant and having the waiter tell you that today's special is fried spam topped with toasted dog dung and then after complaining about being served crap the waiter tells you that you should be thankful because yesterday's special was a donkey dung frappe served piping hot from the donkey's ass... or having to vote for Kerry because he isn't as bad as Bush. IMHO, YMMV.

Ripoff... yes... by Raptor+CK · 2004-04-28 03:56 · Score: 3, Interesting

In fact, it was such a ripoff that they even had Marvel slap their name on it!

As I recall, the reasoning behind Mutant X was that Marvel has some agreement with Fox regarding any X-Men TV series, but they weren't getting anywhere, so they scrambled to get *some* mutant-related show on the air with any other network.

Mutant X is basically just X-Men tweaked to the point where isn't legally X-Men, and can therefore be aired on UPN. Of course it's crap, but I doubt it can be called a ripoff when it's done by the same people. Unoriginal, sure. Derivative, certainly. Ripoff? Not so much.

--
Raptor
"Procrastination is great. It gives me a lot more time to do things that I'm never going to do."

Re:Ripoff... yes... by hank_pym · 2004-04-28 17:27 · Score: 1

Actually, it was two things... First, as you noted, it was *intended* to be different enough to shield Marvel/CanWest/Tribune Entertainment from any lawsuit brought by Fox. In this, it was unsuccessful -- At last notice, Tribune settled with Fox & was suing Marvel to re-coup damages.

Second, it was an ego-stroke for the new executives (Avi Arad, primarily) to re-invent the X-Men.
Re:Ripoff... yes... by Raptor+CK · 2004-05-04 07:57 · Score: 1

Well, I can't argue with a scientist, especially one who's *met* the X-Men on numerous occasions.

Tell me, does the size changing really come in handy?

--
Raptor
"Procrastination is great. It gives me a lot more time to do things that I'm never going to do."

Re:Yet another quality Slashdot communitycancellat by _Sprocket_ · 2004-04-28 03:58 · Score: 1

A New New Hope.

[Box Office slowly crawls accross the screen]

Fanboy: ...years ago, you gave us something special... help us Obit. Lucas Talent... you're our only hope...

Hmmm. There's probably a much better joke in this somewhere. But I don't feel like putting in the work.

So I'll toss in lots of special effects later.

I'm sad by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 04:03 · Score: 0

This is very disappointing. Andromeda was one of my favorites. I'll miss seeing Lexa on my regular weekly basis.

The show was great too...just different enough from Trek to be absorbing.

Those that call this series boring (and whatever other word they've called it) are shallow themselves.

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2004-04-28 04:04 · Score: 1

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Dident the SciFi just buy this thing? by SWTP_OS9 · 2004-04-28 04:17 · Score: 1

Dident I see a few week back that the SciFi channel to pick up Andromida and would show season 5 weekly epsodes first then the locals a few days later?

Intersting Captain: A show was canceled just before it hit the SciFi channel not when it takes off on same channel.

I am a big sci fi fan by Omega1045 · 2004-04-28 04:23 · Score: 1

I really thought that these shows kinda sucked, to be honest. I really tried to get into Andromeda in particular, and just thought it was not very good at all. I have actually watched 5 - 10 of the episodes, thinking I just needed to give it a chance but I am really not that sad that it is being cancelled. And Mutant-X really sucked IMHO, as I think it was a big rip-off of other works and was unwatchable.

Having SciFi shows on just to say there are SciFi shows on is not good enough for me. Hopefully these time slots will be filled with some good SciFi.

I am sad to see great Shows like Angel, Firefly and the like (ok, I named to Joss shows) go to TV graves. But I am equally fed up with marginally crappy shows like these being the thing many rally around. When someone that is not a SciFi fan tries to get into the genre, I hope they start with a Farscape, or B5 and not one of these as they are not a fair representation of what SciFi can be on TV.

--

Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein

For me, Andromeda ended at the end of season 2 by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 04:32 · Score: 0

I was pleasantly surprised when I saw the first episode because the writers actually knew what a hyperbolic orbit was. There were some problems with the black hole, but they later acknowledged that the time dilation in the show was much larger than you'd get at the stated distance from the black hole and tried to explain it away with some interaction between the black hole and the ship's artificial gravity. Still hokey, but at least they tried. There was some interesting background science described on various web sites. Despite a few missteps, and Trance (the annoying purple hippie girl) , the show had a lot of potential.

But halfway through the second season, the producers and Sorbo decided that the show was too intelligent and fired the creative consultant. They planned to do away with the back story and make each episode independent so that viewers wouldn't have to remember anything from previous episodes. Not being interested in mental pablum, I ditched the show at the end of season 2.

My all-time favorite SF terlevision series is still Babylon 5. It's not perfect, but they gave it their best shot. Besides, Joe Straczynski and the actors, many of whom I've briefly met, are very nice people with a good sense of humor.

--- Brian

Re:And yet... Earth: Final Conflict by Alyred · 2004-04-28 04:34 · Score: 2, Insightful

Let's bring some live action ROBOTECH!!

God No!

Can you imagine how horrible it would be if they tried? Imagine Starship Troopers on a TV budget! Cheap cockpit views made of poorly-constructed plywood, and cheap CGI animations of robots. They'd just spoil the whole damn series in the memory of the fans, or worse, make it into another power rangers clone.

No matter what they did, though, they'd have to make it similar to what they recently did to the Transformers: Ruin it to appeal to the Short-Attention-Span, "reality-tv" watching Pokemon generation. I'm coming to the conclusion that's the only way to get something new onto television these days, and make it so that the TV Executives will buy off on it. Look at what happened to the live-action version of The Tick. That series was brilliant, and the acting superb, but it was too cerebral and off-beat for the TV execs to give it time to catch the attention of the consumer.

All for the love of Profit!

-113 grams, 10 milliliters... He's lead, Jim.

OT: Re: No Offense Intended by babbage · 2004-04-28 04:39 · Score: 1

How come Homer and Krusty look like clones?

That's deliberate. According to a Fresh Air interview that Matt Groening did with Terry Gross last year, the resemblance was a deliberate joke in the early days of the show: here was thls little brat, Bart (the name is another joke), that hated his (bumbling, but loving) father and treated him miserably, and yet he absolutely idolzed this television character that was in every way a copy of Homer, but with all the negative attributes of Homer magnifiied.

It's, like, irony. Dig?

********

This message is giving me deja vu -- didn't I post this info to a message of yours once before, or was someone else posing that question in his/her signature?

--
DO NOT LEAVE IT IS NOT REAL

Bye Romie by Walrus99 · 2004-04-28 04:49 · Score: 1

Sad to see Andromeda go. It was one of the better scifi shows currently on TV. Imaginative, good characters, fun plot-lines. In many ways it carried on the vision of Gene Roddenberry. I have given up on expecting the Paramount owned Star Trek francise to give us anything original or interesting. "sniff"

Good Riddance by delus10n0 · 2004-04-28 04:50 · Score: 1

Mutant X was just lame to begin with. Ripping off X-Men is not cool.

--
Not All Who Wander Are Lost

disappointing by GhodMode · 2004-04-28 05:07 · Score: 1

Yet another disappointment.

We're going steadily toward an entertainment environment filled only with poorly cloned descendants of soap operas like "Beverly Hills: 90210" and "reality" TV shows like Survivor.

It's happening in music, too: Everyone sounds like "New Kids on the Block".

Well, at least I'm saving more money since I canceled cablevision.

--
-- GhodMode

Or we might NOT be dismayed by Wise+Dragon · 2004-04-28 05:08 · Score: 1

Funny, I think Mutant X and Andromeda suck. I am overjoyed to see them cancelled. Here's to that investment being funneled into new and exciting sci-fi series, not cheesy rehashes of old franchises.

Blandromeda by jafac · 2004-04-28 05:24 · Score: 1

.. . What a worthless TURD of a show. Good riddance.

Now bring back Firefly.

Bastards.

--

These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.

Wrong solution by Da+VinMan · 2004-04-28 05:25 · Score: 1

if you actually want the material before hell freezes over. Our solution is TiVo. Yup, I'm a bit of a fanboy on this one. Try it, you'll like it.

FYI - You can tell TiVo to catch only first run episodes in a series. It actually works. It won't make new episodes come out any faster, but at least you won't get all the crap.

Also - There are about 10 Stargate episodes aired per week, and they are at least 90% re-runs. We have TiVo get them all (minus dupes - another TiVo feature).

Oh, and if you do get a TiVo, be sure to look up the 30 second skip button easter egg/hack. TiVo doesn't eliminate ads, but you can skip them easily with 6 or so presses of the 30 second skip button.

--
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!

I didn't know they were still making new episodes. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 05:50 · Score: 0

I assumed all the episodes I see advertised on TV were syndicated. Shows you how much I pay attention.

CanWest closes Fireworks- No Surprise by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 05:51 · Score: 0

The news that CanWest closed Fireworks shouldn't be a surprise. Basically CanWest wants to be a mini-FoxNews without the talent.

In reality, they should stick to about all they do well- distributing other people's programming.

These guys are a joke.

Re:Whole series or bust. by guidryp · 2004-04-28 05:57 · Score: 1

I am in Canada. I don't think real Tivo available here yet. Plus they move stuff around at whim without even advertising the change. Andromeda on the only station here moved from monday to saturday, then bounces between Friday and Saturday without explanation. StarGate good luck. I gave up somewhere in season 6.

I find it is much easier to wait for the series to be available than to try to find that one new episode each week, if there is even a new episode that week. Like I said watching B5 in this manner was a revelation to me. I watched all 5 seasons in a month.

No waiting, no forgetting plotlines when you have to wait a month during the midseason break, no getting into a series and having it cancelled.

Whole series or bust for me.

The only downside is if too many start thinking this way series television might lose ratings and stop production. So by all means keep watching guys.

When Your Story Arc Increases Without Bound by thelizman · 2004-04-28 06:03 · Score: 1

A long time ago there was a series based on war of the world - long story short, the martians had found a way to exist as parasites in human hosts. Anyway, a small group went around foiling their grand conspiracy, and this went on for a few seasons, then the aliens took over, and everything reverted to mad-max style conditions. Then the show sucked, because the dynamics had changed.

Well, it happenned to Andromeada. I liked the show when it was *just* Dylan and a crew of misfits trying to restore a sense of justice and equity to a galaxy that had fallen into its dark ages. Then shit started getting wierd. Trance became a psychic pan-dimensional being, Thier became some powerful political force over the Nietzian Prides, and suddenly the systems commonwealth was reborn, and the show should have ended there. They tried to milk it without getting any new and dynamic aspects. Basically, the story had completed its arc, and producers wanted it to bounce, and that doesn't happen. The rule with any good sci-fi series is that you have an overall arc, you take it, and then you finish it gracefully. It's better to die with a loving and loyal fanbase the way Lexx and ST: Voyager did then to become cliche and worn out like X-Files did. Failing to do either leaves fans rabidly jaded, like with Firefly and Farscape.

The first person who mentions MST3K is gonna get bitchslapped.

Re: Screw you for calling me an idiot. by cbreaker · 2004-04-28 06:07 · Score: 1

That's bullshit.

I don't know why you think that the shows of today are LESS INTELLIGENT then the shows of the 70's and 80's. The airwaves were full of crap citcoms and even crappier cop shows.

Today we have much better quality TV. And no, not all of it, but a lot of it is smarter and has continuity.

I am not a huge fan of Andromeda but the episodes I watched were okay. I mean, not everything has to be a masterpeice! It's entertainment for gods sake!

The thing I dislike about the whole thing is how Scifi picks up and drops shows so fast. Even when they have a hit (Farscape) they dump it because they aren't making *enough* money. Scifi channel will never be a really big network because they just don't hold onto shows long enough due to greed.

I'm surprised that SG-1 has been on the air for as long as it has, but I'm sure they will cancel that one soon too. What will we be left with? Reruns of The Outer Limits, and the old ones at that.

It's too bad, too. I like Scifi (not just the channel..) I like how writers are free to explore things they way they want without being limited to the "real" world. It's interesting and entertaining, and can really make you think. Too bad it has this stigma attached to it, where you "must be a geek" if you like it.

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The black cat and secret agent characters... by mankey+wanker · 2004-04-28 06:09 · Score: 1

Y'know maybe it would suck as a TV show, but I seem to recall two characters from a time travel episode of the original Star Trek that featured a secret agent with extraordinary powers whose black cat turns into a sexy woman near the end of the episode (for perhaps two moments, just long enough for the viewer to catch it). I remember the episode had something to do with a rocket launching or something.

Those two characters might make an interesting spin off.

I know practically nothing about Trek fandom, so I don't know if these characters are fan favored or fan hated...

Just to make another lame simpsons reference,,, by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 06:14 · Score: 0

Worst. Episode. Ever!

Mutant X wasn't SciFi, it was pop art criticism by danguyf · 2004-04-28 06:16 · Score: 1

While I expected "Mutant X" to be science fiction, watching it proved that clearly erroneous. The "evil" villian was clearly Andy Warhol, while the so-called heroes were Gap-clad Abercrombie models. I took the show to be about the struggle between Waholian pop culture and the modern mass market commodification of beauty that may be traced, in part, back to that artistic movement.

thank fuck for that by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 06:17 · Score: 0

i don't know about "mutant x" but if it is anything like the shambles that is "andromeda" then good riddance. my only problem is that we in the uk will still have to suffer it for years to come.. 88 episodes? i'm amazed the pilot was made..

Quality... by Zekaric · 2004-04-28 06:19 · Score: 1

I don't know about MutantX. I just couldn't get into that show. Not enough likeable characters or something.

Andromeda started out ok... It arced up having a decent storyline... And then suddenly the wheels fell off.

To me it just seems like the boys running the show have no clear direction where it should go and it shows in the writing. Not to mention some god awful episodes of late with b-movie quality editing, acting and effects. I'm not entirely surprised that they are cancelling the show. Maybe they'll make a miniseries or two to wrap it up instead of a season... I'll miss Rommy. :/

Re:And yet... Earth: Final Conflict by Creepy · 2004-04-28 06:28 · Score: 2, Interesting

I agree on Robotech - too much action for network TV and probably even cable TV (outside companies willing to risk big $$ like HBO, but that doesn't really fit their core audience). The biggest obstacle to good sci-fi on network TV, though, is that the networks are moving almost completely to sitcoms and reality TV to cut expense. I wouldn't be surprised if that eventually backfires and they lose share to cable, but I haven't seen any slowdown in popularity yet. Even cable is jumping on that bandwagon... maybe in 10 years, the ONLY things to watch will be reality, sitcom, crime drama, or sports. I imagine I'd throw my TV out around then.

The other thing I hate about network TV is their consistent unbelievable science in sci-fi and characters that are basically untouchable. Dark Angel jumping through a pane of inch-thick glass, falling 4 stories and running away uninjured, for instance. Genetically engineered or not, she's gonna get sliced up and probably break her legs in that fall. Then there's dodging pretty much every bullet... *groan*
Execs should watch Alias to know how to create this kind of character right. She's not invincible, but is superhuman in some ways (and this is explained in a realistic way - a cold war CIA project designed to create superspies), has flaws, shows fear, and yet still succeeds in most (but not all) missions. Missions that fail? That's so refreshing to see in any show. I was also happy to see a Cold Case show that didn't produce enough evidence to pin the murderer as well. Maybe networks are waking up to reality - we don't always win every battle.

My biggest peeve with sci-fi, though is the 20th century medicine in shows like Star Trek and even the new Battlestar Galactica, though. If you can build a spaceship that big, you probably have the med-tech to cure cancer and revive the dead for several minutes - heck, they probably could convert entire body structures. Hmm... today, I think I'll be a Trellian...

To be honest, I actually didn't think the Tick worked well in either live action or cartoon form, probably because it didn't fit the genre. Both had funny moments, but not the laugh-until-you-wet-your-pants moments from the comic book. The live action shows biggest fault was that it was paced too slow. The cartoon had to make sacrifices for its audience and took away too much of the adult humor.

I thought TMNT (Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles) worked much better in both comic and live action, and I'm not really a fan of that series (aside from the first couple of gore-fest comic books). It's probably because it meets people's expectations (superhero=action heavy) and was already dumbed down in the comic book when the writers found they were getting more pre-teen fans/interest than adult spoof audience fans/interest.

Picked up by Sci-Fi Chanel by jasontromm · 2004-04-28 06:56 · Score: 1

Wasn't Andromeda just picked up by the Sci-Fi channel? Why would they cancel it right away?

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Re:Picked up by Sci-Fi Chanel by dgagley · 2004-04-28 07:04 · Score: 1

The article at IGN states that:

"According to a number of industry insiders, Sci-Fi Channel would not have the money required to take up the slack from losing Fireworks as a co-production partner."

Too Bad. Yes the show is kind of hokey but I still like it. I also like RedDwarf I guess I am odd in that way.

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How about this bit of irony by Creepy · 2004-04-28 07:10 · Score: 1

From the Scifi channel web site:

Top 10 SF Syndicated shows:

Andromeda 1.9
Mutant X 1.7
Stargate SG-1 1.7
She Spies 1.5
The X-Files 1.5
3rd Rock 1.4
Buffy 1.3
Angel 1.2
Beastmaster 1.1
The Outer Limits 1.1

Source: Nielsen Galaxy Report, 4/5/04 - 4/11/04

Re:How about this bit of irony by unitron · 2004-04-28 19:18 · Score: 1

I wonder which SF show was supposed to go where She Spies was mistyped.

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I am glad they are gone by olivercromwell · 2004-04-28 07:40 · Score: 1

I have tried to watch both series on more than one occasion. Every time I attempted to watch them, I had to change the channel. They were poorly written, poorly acted, poorly produced crap. I am not sad to see them go. I love sci-fi. But i REALLY hate BAD sci-fi, which both of these programs would qualify as. Now, if only we could convince Fox to back Firefly again.

Coming soon... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-04-28 08:18 · Score: 0

Don't fret, sci-fi fans. I hear there will be a new show soon that has a sexy woman with a funny set of ears and forehead wrinkles. She will be sexy, but tough enough to hold her own fighting a man.

There will be laser blasts and nonsense alien languages.

You can avoid dealing with real people and dream of sex with alien women until you are well into your 30's and wonder what happened to your life.

I am saddened by this event by Orion+Blastar · 2004-04-28 09:06 · Score: 1

I thought they were good shows. Yet I couldn't help noticing that they stole from other shows as well.

There were times when I felt like watching "Andromeda" like I was watching a bad "Star Trek" episode. I liked the show when it started, but after a while I could no longer watch it. I heard a rumor that Gene tried to get networks to air it in the 1970's after "Star Trek" went off the air. Now I see why the networks did not want to air it. Don't get me wrong, it is a good idea, just that the stories needed better work, good acting too, just weak plots and plots that seem to have been stolen from "Star Trek" leaving me with a Deja Vu.

"Mutant X", like a bad spin-off of the X-Men movie. "Mutant X" is to X-Men, like "Andromeda" is to "Star Trek". Also "Mutant X" seemed to get worse over the time it aired.

Save a really good show, get "FarScape", "Battlestar Galactica" (Original series before Galactica 80, not the Sci Fi Channel remake), or "Lexx" back on the air instead of "Andromeda". Get "The Invisible Man", "Good Vs. Evil", or "The Misfits Of Science" back on the air instead of "Mutant X".

BTW whatever happened to:

"The Six Million Dollar Man"
"Wonder Woman"
"Buck Rogers"
"The Greatest American Hero"
"Quark"

Now there were good shows, bring them back with an all new cast. See what happens.

Recreate the BBC shows too:
"Blake's Seven"
"Red Dwarf"
"Doctor Who"
"The Prisoner"
"Dark Shadows"

If done right, they may be more entertaining than "Andromeda" or "Mutant X" ever where. Even Professional Wrestling has better script writters than these two shows had. Seesh! ;)

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Somebody call the bomb squad! by Orion+Blastar · 2004-04-28 09:19 · Score: 1

I think we just uncovered a whole cache of made for TV bombs! Almost every one of those shows I saw where awful! Someone call Homeland Security, we just uncovered major bomb makers! Careful, they may go off if you watch them. Just turn the channel, slowly, slowly, no too fast you just set one off! :)

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The Damned Time Slot by Dr.+Cody · 2004-04-28 09:20 · Score: 1

Science fans may be excited to learn that "Mutant X" has been cancelled.

I watch Saturday Night Live religiously--whether it sucks or not. Sometimes, if I'm not tired, I watch what we've come to call The Damned Time Slot, 12:00AM-1:00AM. It's a frightening place with such shows as Cleopatra 2525, Relic Hunter, Hercules, Xena, and Mutant X and Andromeda.

We came to the conclusion that to enter this timeslot, you had to have at least three current/former porn stars in your cast.

Hope? by Cervantes · 2004-04-28 09:24 · Score: 1

Hope?
*drum roll please*
Yes, indeed, it is "A New Hope" that we will never see "The Return of the Jedi".

God DAMN that was bad!

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Daleks by Orion+Blastar · 2004-04-28 09:34 · Score: 1

last I remember Darvos added a hover device to the Daleks so they could hover up the stairs and prove Doctor Who to be wrong. Next improvement may make them looking more like Terminators? Who knows?

Doctor Who has some lives left, just regerate to a better actor and get better script writers and better special effects and let Lucas or Speilberg do it and then you have a hit. :) My picks are Bruce Willis, Pierce Brosnan, John Travolta, or The Rock. Just because they introduce a different style to the character.

Bring back The Master, have him steal the body of Danny Devito, Gary Oldman, or Tommy Lee Jones, we might get some better acting then. :) For better effects have him steal the body of Gary Coleman or Mr. T. Hee hee! Or better yet, get Arnold to take a break as Gov of Californa to play The Master. ;)

Get a better companion than some woman/girl who screams her head off when she sees a monster, or a better man/boy than one who can use math really good or is so stupid he tried to remove a bomb that was rigged to explode if tampered with off of The Doctor's back. :) Best companions to bring back:

Ramona
Leela
Jamie
K-9 (Just build a new one already!)

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Worst work yet? by perlfu_ · 2004-04-28 10:25 · Score: 2, Insightful

I could have seen this coming a mile away. Not only is kevin sorbo quite possibly the worst actor known to human kind, andromeda is uninsightful, and not really up to the standard set by some of gene's other great works. I'm sure neither of these shows will be missed.

What else was filmed in toronto? by cookie_cutter · 2004-04-28 11:52 · Score: 1

Besides it was filmed in Canada, most in Toronto, how much quality can you REALLY get?

Well, given that X-MEN THE MOVIE WAS FILMED IN TORONTO, I expect quite a bit!

Re:What else was filmed in toronto? by Locutus233 · 2004-04-28 16:34 · Score: 1

Actually crappy Canadian Productions tend to be in Toronto. Some examples:

-Viper
-Kung Fu
-Earth Final Conflict
-Various Canadian TV shows, that forget the rest of the world is bigger than Toronto

Good TV Shows produced in Vancouver:

-X-Files (After season 6 was moved to LA, at which point it sucked!)
-The Outer Limits
-Stargate SG-1
-Stargate Atlantis (Never seen an episode, pre-production is underway)
-Battlestar Galatica (although, it remains to be seen how well this will do)

Big Movies Filmed in Vancouver:

-X-men 2
-Scarry Movie
-I-Robot
-Double Jeopardy
-Catwoman
-Jumanji
-Dreamcatcher
-And the list goes on....

Vancouver is also known as "Hollywood North" and for good reason. Many of the better shows on TV not done on a stage are made here. So Be carefull about blaiming Canada. After all we did come up with South Park.

Re:And yet... Earth: Final Conflict by RevAaron · 2004-04-29 06:07 · Score: 1

Throw your TV out? How do you expect to watch seasons 1-5 of Babylon 5 on DVD?! Man, I may not watch *TV* but there are some good things to do with it.

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Re:Yet another quality Slashdot communitycancellat by Anonymous+Villain · 2004-04-30 12:58 · Score: 1

That's why Star wars is now called (in sequel) Star Wars: A New Hope.

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Andromeda And Mutant X Cancelled

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