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You absolutely DO NOT have to be able to focus your eyes to read a speedometer or other instruments.

In another post (maybe my original) I pointed out you don't have to focus on the electronic rear view screen either, you can easily make out the annotated shapes and colors and sizes to make out important details about what is behind you, where it is and how close without ever really focusing.

which is FAR different from having to read text.

???? You aren't reading text on a rear view mirror either.

Why do you think race cars have those nice, big, analog gauges

You've been watching too many cartoons Speed Racer. Real instrument clusters for race cars are not that large, I have a number of friends into racing enough to install custom instrumentation...

Also it's pretty absurd to bring up race car drivers which have to pay attention to instruments for very different reasons than street car drivers.

Not to mention that *actual* race car drivers are going digital too

Like I told the other responder, I'm out of the conversion now as y'all are just getting more and more absurd on these points and refuse to recognize how real people drive cars all because you are too stubborn to admit when you are plainly wrong.

I guess it's plain to see that many other drivers are scarily not actually looking around while driving. Yowza. Self driving cars cannot come fast enough to get these yahoos off the road.

Pro Stock dragsters use them. As do most street leagues. And hydroplanes (AKA "powerboats"). And Kart. And Rallycross. Moto. TT. Bracket. Indy.

NASCAR went from carb to DFI in 2012. Citation

Are you trolling, or are you really ignorant of the amount of engineering that goes into NASCAR? Or dragsters, for that matter?

I said the vehicle in the article is a drag strip car, or at best a track car. It is not a street car. You quoted... drag strip cars and track cars as counter-arguments?

I'm confused.

As for the engineering, there's this. Which says, in summary, that you can build any frame you like, except it must have a roll cage, and the roll cage must have a Newman Bar, it must be built of mild steel, it must have the specified tube radii, and it even must be coated in a specified color. Among other restrictions, to the point where there's not exactly a lot of innovative engineering happening in frame construction in NASCAR. There aren't very many degrees of freedom left.

But that's all beside the point anyway. The point is that a space frame isn't necessarily the best design because of its weakness with respect to torsional stress. A weakness that is irrelevant to track cars and dragsters because there is no vehicle surface more tightly controlled than that of a race track or drag strip. They don't have bumps, they don't have potholes, they don't have out of spec bankings. They don't even have seams. They're not anything like a street, in other words. So the chassis design constraints are nothing like the design constraints of a street car.

And that toy in the article isn't designed for streets. That's all I'm saying.

"Even so, after 24 hours, 740 laps and 2,634.4 miles, the 2015 Rolex 24 at Daytona still came down to a seven-minute, 30-second sprint to the checkered flag that saw the No. 02 Chip Ganassi with Felix Sabates Ford EcoBoost-powered Riley DP squeeze out a 1.333-second victory over the defending Rolex 24 champion No. 5 Action Express Chevrolet Corvette DP." http://www.nascar.com/en_us/ne...

Problem: Terms Of Service are subject to change. And who reads them anyway?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and figure that most people who watch the WWE or NASCAR pay-per-view programs aren't particularly well versed in contract law.

Admittedly I'm not a NASCAR fan, but it does seem it's a bit more advanced that what you are reporting:

http://storefront.nascar.com/trackpass/about/raceview

What are all the features included in RaceView?

Get All the Race and Driver Information You Need - LIVE!
Instant crash and caution updates

Streaming lap-by-lap commentary

Real-time race information such as number of cautions, laps, race leader, number of leaders, and flag status

Get real-time driver points and standings

View real-time driver positions, speed, lap time, RPM, brake, throttle, and time behind the leader

Track pit stats and times

Includes PitCommand and Scanner FREE

Set your driver and view preferences

Launch RaceView from your desktop! You can place a RaceView icon on your desktop so it's even easier to watch live races.

Something like Digger's girlfriend Annie, perhaps?

Dale Earnhardt Jr. competes in the NASCAR iRacing series (won by a Brit, Richard Towler) and several other NASCAR drivers use the service as well (AJ Allmendinger ran a race live on Speed, for example). Also, about half the IRL drivers use iRacing, as well as a smattering of other racers. It's just not rare enough to be interesting anymore, but if you want to find it, there's plenty of video online of pros running iRacing.

Actually NASCAR are going the other way FYI.

They've taken the physical car out of the loop and are using technology to replace it.

Together with iRacing they've endorsed the first official NASCAR series champion for virtual racing:

http://www.iracing.com/partners/

Richard Towler has become the first non-resident crowned champion of their online world drivers championship:

http://www.nascar.com/news/headlines/official/iracing.standings/ .-)

CO2 is not dangerous at all if breathed in so I'm not sure what you're implying there.

It is dangerous in high enough concentations. I believe that the OSHA limit for 8-hr average exposure is 5,000 ppm and it is considered acutely toxic at levels above 4% or so.

Put that way everything is dangerous in high enough concentrations. Methane will cause asphyxiation in lower concentrations than CO2 will. For that matter carbon monoxide, CO, is more dangerous than carbon dioxide, ask NASCAR drivers.

Falcon

Here is a good infographic of all the "different" tracks. Their franchise track designer must have a bit of stifled creativity, except for the four road tracks. Oh, and the word 'infographic' is fucking stupid.

I know some f1 drivers have (or are currently) in nascar such as Juan Pablo Montoya who is currently ranked 22nd on the season. When I've watched he seems like a good driver, manages to stay up at the front of the pack for most of the race. He hasn't exactly dominated though. We'll see how Danica does if she makes it to the sprint cup next year or later.

Don't forget that Juan Pablo has won the 24 Hours at Daytona and the Indy 500, yet in over 2 seasons has yet to win an oval race in NASCAR. He's a fantastic driver, but has a different skillset. He's also proof that NASCAR racers are quality racers, since if they weren't, Montoya would be dominant like he was in F1. I can't wait until he really starts succeeding in the series.

With Danika, I hope they give her enough time to grow into the series, rather than rushing her. Like Juan Pablo, she really needs to build up the 'stock' car skillset that she doesn't have yet. And, because she's a woman and good for publicity, her being on the track has generally been more important than her being a good racer. The other drivers have had a lot of praise for her learning ability, given time I think she will do well also.

I used to bash nascar quite a bit, but its actually pretty fun.. You can usually skip the first few hundred laps and just watch the end, when everyone goes all out to win.

If you only watch 30 minutes, the last 30 are usually the ones to watch. And those who say it's not interesting or exciting obviously didn't watch this year's Daytona 500 when Jr. went from 10th to 2nd place on the last 2 laps of the race. I'm not aware of many other racing series where that happens without a wreck.

Yeah because nascar drivers don't know how to turn. I've only watched a few races myself, as my father in law is a big fan, but after doing so I have to say I respect the sport much more now. I know some f1 drivers have (or are currently) in nascar such as Juan Pablo Montoya who is currently ranked 22nd on the season. When I've watched he seems like a good driver, manages to stay up at the front of the pack for most of the race. He hasn't exactly dominated though. We'll see how Danica does if she makes it to the sprint cup next year or later. I used to bash nascar quite a bit, but its actually pretty fun.. You can usually skip the first few hundred laps and just watch the end, when everyone goes all out to win.

As far as whether Bush would declare himself Emperor, I'm going to draw a car analogy. Bear with me here.
I will bet every cent to my name that Jimmie Johnson will win the 2009 Checker O'Reilly Auto Parts 500. Would you take that bet? If so, you're a moron, because the race already happened. (If you're not a NASCAR fan and didn't click the link, it goes to the race results, which show Mr. Stewart as the winner.)
Similarly, we already know whether Bush declared himself Emperor and prevented Obama from taking office. (He didn't.) Minor infringements on civil liberties of American citizens pale in comparison to completely overthrowing the electoral system on which this country relies. Lawpoop accused Bush of trying to do just that, and I called him "paranoid to the point of retardation." Unless you can show me evidence that Bush tried to do that (and not make crap up about civil liberties), my point stands.

Then I have no idea how you would explain This.

Exactly - just look at alcohol.. why the number of gin-runners and speakeasies is through the roof since the lifting of prohibition..

Gin-runners still exist. They just don't carry gin much anymore and like to go around in circles. Something called NASCAR, originally boosted by white lightning runnin'.

They also tried to bring Muslims into a NASCAR race with cameras to get a reaction once. http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/news/2006- 04-06-dateline_x.htm http://www.nascar.com/2006/news/headlines/cup/04/0 6/nbc.dateline/index.html

amongst the intelligentsia

Tell that to Denny Hamlin...

Then how do you explain this?
http://www.nascar.com/2006/news/opinion/04/06/cros s.nbc.dateline/index.html

NASCAR is a motor sport, just like F1, or IRL/Cart, or the Rolex series, all of which I am a fan. There are plenty of "furriners and Frenchie-sounding names" in all of those, and there is in fact a black driver in NASCAR, Bill Lester.

what does "winning in a collision" even mean?
i'm honestly tyring to understand how having a heavier car will help you in a collision. the only way to be safer in a collision is to minimize the acceleration that you undergo. you do this by maximizing the time that the collision takes. that is the main factor in the forces that are applied to the colliding vehicles.

for instance, you are in a car with mass m1 going v1 and you hit a car with mass m2 going v2. if both final speeds are 0, car 1 will experience a force of

f = m * a, and a = (v final - v initial) /t

f1 = m1 * (0 - v1) / t

and car 2

f2 = m2 * (0 - v2) / t

so, the way to minimize the force that the cars experience is to maximize the time the collision takes.
and the way to maximize the time is to design the car so that the materials absorb the energy of the applied force better, not to make the cars heavier.

basically, you want the front (or whatever side of the car is hit) to absorb the energy from the collision, not the passenger compartment.
if you have a heavy car designed like a brick, you'll be screwed in a collision because the energy from the collision will find its way to the passengers.
but if you have a light car that is designed really good, you'll be safer in a collision than a heavy car.

just look at f1/indy cars/nascar. they undergo some pretty brutal collisions but are far lighter than your average suv (only like 1500 lbs for an indy car and 3,400 for nascar).
http://www.nascar.com/2005/news/headlines/official /07/14/ford_fusion/
http://www.nas.nasa.gov/About/Education/Racecar/de velopment.html

but the drivers survive those brutal collisions because the cars are designed well.
if you are in a nascar car and you collide head on with an 5000 lb suv at 40 mph, you'll probably suffer no injuries, while the driver in the suv will probably be hurt a little bit, even though your car weighs over a 1000 lbs less.

NASCAR, Indy, and F1 are all technologically advance machines driven for extended amounts of time at high speeds along exciting circuits capabale of seating hundreds of thousands of fans during all kinds of weather and track conditions. All teams command a multitude of sponsors from various industries and include a manufacturer of core equipment, like Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Honda, Toyota, McLaren, Ferrari, etc. The core manufacturer uses technology derived from their respective racing teams and eventually use it in products they sell to customers.

Which is where the problem comes in...
Commercially, this is not viable because:

1. Airframe, Powerplant, and other suppliers are not going to sell this technolgoy at some point to consumers, at least within the next 50 years.
2. Where are people going to watch this from? Auto racing packs in the crowds because people can get close to the racing, even though they might not see much of the track.
3. Seriously, 3-4 laps of glide time and 4 min of available thrust between 5-10 minute pit stops?? BOOOOORING!!! Especially versus 30-50 laps between less than 15 second pit stops...and not to mention 300-500+ mile races!
4. Most people cannot relate to a "rocket racer" because they don't own a rocket plane. Its very easy to relate to a race car driver because you own a car.
5. $$$$....To own a basic pro-circuit auto racing team, its millions of dollars in costs. A rocket racing team would have extremely high upfront costs, high maintenance costs, and probably low payout. Poor ROI.

I'm not trying to bash the Rocket Racing League idea, as I think its a neat concept, especially concerning space technology development. I just strongly believe it not to be commercially viable and will not be very popular. Good Luck anyways.
Amigori

The only other place I've heard "co-opetition" is out of Darrell Waltrip's mouth this season while Fox was broadcasting NASCAR events.

Brand recognition concepts like "Intel Inside" or McDonalds might work, but only for brand recognition. Even among massively global companies (Proctor & Gamble, Ford, Visa), the exact same product is marketed differently in different countries/regions. An ad that might work well in Peoria would be too tame for Paris.

Targeted marketing is the way these guys work. They have spent decades honing and refining this process. And these guys are the 'consumers' who fund the TV. We are merely the product.

TV has production costs. No way around that. Someone has to pay that.
Either the advertisers do, or we do. And I'm not sure there's enough of'us' that would pay on a per show basis to make it work.

Here's a concept that might work, though. Would you pay an extra $1/$5/$10/$20/$50 on your cable/internet bill to be able to download some premium content? I might. NASCAR currently has a whole premium Java based multimedia thing. Trackpass. In-car audio between the driver and crewchief, position updating in realtime, etc. If you're really into NASCAR, you might pay for it. But if you have TimeWarner in Cincinnati (and I assume elsewhere), it's included as part of your cable internet. That concept might work for other types of computer based video/TV.

Sponsering the class is all about getting you company mentioned any time the sport is brought up.

As for driver sponsorship: http://www.nascar.com/2004/kyn/nascar_101/05/20/te am_costs/index.html

I'm sorry, you're spelling was so atrocious I couldn't make out your point. Would you please re-phrase it? Thank you ever so much! :-)

By the way, you did know NASCAR wants to build a track in the NYC area (Staten Island) because the demand is so high in that area and that nationwide NASCAR is more popular than the NFL? You'll need to start modifying your "NASCAR talk dictionary" to include phrases like "youse guys", "faddah", "muddah", and maybe even "chowdah".

That's a good point! However, I would counter that the authority on the spelling hasn't acknowledged any change and, since it's no doubt protected intellectual property, legally it's still "NASCAR" and not "Nascar". To eliminate the final possibility that the NYT is trying to refer to all related forms of car racing as "Nascar", I have only seen them use the term in an actual NASCAR context.

X-Price goes the way of Nascar. http://www.nascar.com/

This is already done for NASCAR drivers. PitCommand uses differential GPS to track all 43 NASCAR Nextel Cup drivers every race. It also uses sensors to monitor throttle, break, and RPM.

Although it is a pay service, you can see a demo here (recent version of the Java plugin required).

Tracking race cars is more difficult than tracking bicycles due to speed. Tracking things at high speed is more difficult, because it is difficult to keep four satellites acquired. Also, race tracks have banking and grandstands, which obscures GPS signals.

This is already done for NASCAR drivers. PitCommand uses differential GPS to track all 43 NASCAR Nextel Cup drivers every race. It also uses sensors to monitor throttle, break, and RPM.

Although it is a pay service, you can see a demo here (recent version of the Java plugin required).

Tracking race cars is more difficult than tracking bicycles due to speed. Tracking things at high speed is more difficult, because it is difficult to keep four satellites acquired. Also, race tracks have banking and grandstands, which obscures GPS signals.

ummmm.... actually NASCAR does go turn both directions. There are round courses where they only turn left, but there are also "road tracks" where they turn both ways. An example is the Infineon Raceway in Sonoma. Click on the map on the right side of the page to see what it looks like.

Must be some upset NASCAR fans that haven't tossed enough beer cars and trash. Frankly things like this defacing just reaffirm how far the human race has got to go to become civilized.

Think about the advantages: You get a Royal Family of your very own and no more George Dubblyah Bush.

Rather than a 1/4 mile horizontal drag race, make it ia 1 mile vertical drag race with total flight staying within the limits of Class E airspace, preferably below 14,500 ft.

Start with the Rocket Guy's 15,000 ft flight as a standard and do exhibitions involving dual launches of these vehicles. Grandstands must of course be at a safe distance but you don't need to be too close to something like this for the thrill of your life. There's a lot more energy being released in these drags than a typical 1/4 mile drag of course, and a lot higher likelihood of fatalities to the "drivers" but if you move it out to a remote area you can have some serious fun while developing the flight systems needed to carry men to orbit.

I like the X-Prize and all but really there needs to be some serious motor-head madness here with the motor babes and all.

A side benefit of this sort of competition is we get to find out if the spam in a can idea of manned rocketry is actually superior to human guidance. We all know someone will just have to attempt human guided rockets.

WWE already webcasts their pay-per-views, and while NASCAR doesn't do webcasts, you can access telemetry from all the cars in the Winston Cup races, and see a ton of real-time data on the races while you watch it on FOX (or ABC later in the season) using their TrackPass site features.

I'm not particularly excited that MLB is doing it. It sounds to me like another desperate ploy to get fans back after they abused us with their "I deserve more money even though I have enough $100 bills lying around to wipe my ass with for the rest of my life" spoiled rich boy player strikes.

Forget baseball -- NASCAR is the new national pastime.

WWE already webcasts their pay-per-views, and while NASCAR doesn't do webcasts, you can access telemetry from all the cars in the Winston Cup races, and see a ton of real-time data on the races while you watch it on FOX (or ABC later in the season) using their TrackPass site features.

I'm not particularly excited that MLB is doing it. It sounds to me like another desperate ploy to get fans back after they abused us with their "I deserve more money even though I have enough $100 bills lying around to wipe my ass with for the rest of my life" spoiled rich boy player strikes.

Forget baseball -- NASCAR is the new national pastime.

Love the sport !

I'm curious how you think the game theory people would accomodate rain (delay or cancelled) and the critical pit strategies (2 or 4 tires, during cautions, etc).

Everyone I know who has taken the time to actually LEARN what the sport is about has become hooked ! It's deceptively simply as a casual observer but very much more complex once you know the ropes. Hell, I have buddies that even track what pit crews are working with whom and what deals are in the works (the same guys who listen in on the radio comms at the actual races)

Also, with NASCAR rules the way they are, the makes have to be manufactured in the US. Which lends the sport a bit of patriotic 100% American-ness.

The rules are changing. Toyota is making its debut in the NASCAR Truck Series in 2004.

http://www.nascar.com/drivers/dps/blester00/ct/ind ex.html

"Most drivers, say Dale Jr, Michael Waltrip, Dale Jarett, Tony Stewart and Jeff Gordon win a few times a season"
Actually, most drivers are lucky if they win a few races in their entire career. see for yourself

I know some stable drivers:

Bill Elliott in the #9 Dodge

Dale Jarrett in the #88 UPS car

and

Bobby Labonte in the #18 Interstate Batteries car.

Of course, the least stable driver is Tony Stewart in the #20 Home Depot Pontiac.

I know some stable drivers:

Bill Elliott in the #9 Dodge

Dale Jarrett in the #88 UPS car

and

Bobby Labonte in the #18 Interstate Batteries car.

Of course, the least stable driver is Tony Stewart in the #20 Home Depot Pontiac.

I know some stable drivers:

Bill Elliott in the #9 Dodge

Dale Jarrett in the #88 UPS car

and

Bobby Labonte in the #18 Interstate Batteries car.

Of course, the least stable driver is Tony Stewart in the #20 Home Depot Pontiac.

I know some stable drivers:

Bill Elliott in the #9 Dodge

Dale Jarrett in the #88 UPS car

and

Bobby Labonte in the #18 Interstate Batteries car.

Of course, the least stable driver is Tony Stewart in the #20 Home Depot Pontiac.

Or do you want to see flamethrowers and tacnukes?

Yes. I will not watch that show until someone in the audience is at least hospitalized. That's when you know they're pushing the envelope.

Better yet, parts of a broken robot blown over (better: through) those wimpy partitions and killing a fan.

As for any sim, specifically auto racing making me a better driver, I would have to disagree. As with any PC or console game/simulator you quickly realize that you are in fact constantly compensating for and taking advandage of the AI of the simulation. This goes for the big time simulators as well, such as airline pilot training sims. They are still computers and graphics when you boil it all down.

That being said, I tend to think that it may help condition a little more hand/eye coordination, but at the same time, planting your butt in front of a gaming console or PC for endless hours also makes you lazy, and in some opinions sort of an intravert. Is this bad? Dunno, depends on what each persons likes/dislikes are.

I do disagree with Jon on this one though. I think trying to fabricate justification for gaming, other than it simply being a fun and entertaining way to spend some time, is just stretching it to much.

Oh, and not to disagree with the above posters comment about it enhancing driving ability., Here's an interview from NASCAR.Com that has a driver saying basically they don't use them.

More race stuff in one place,

As for any sim, specifically auto racing making me a better driver, I would have to disagree. As with any PC or console game/simulator you quickly realize that you are in fact constantly compensating for and taking advandage of the AI of the simulation. This goes for the big time simulators as well, such as airline pilot training sims. They are still computers and graphics when you boil it all down.

That being said, I tend to think that it may help condition a little more hand/eye coordination, but at the same time, planting your butt in front of a gaming console or PC for endless hours also makes you lazy, and in some opinions sort of an intravert. Is this bad? Dunno, depends on what each persons likes/dislikes are.

I do disagree with Jon on this one though. I think trying to fabricate justification for gaming, other than it simply being a fun and entertaining way to spend some time, is just stretching it to much.

Oh, and not to disagree with the above posters comment about it enhancing driving ability., Here's an interview from NASCAR.Com that has a driver saying basically they don't use them.

More race stuff in one place,

Now, what *would* be helpful is for certain practical info to be made available in realtime. What lap is being run? What was the top speed of the last lap? What are the positions of the drivers? If this kind of info was typically available on the net, I'd probably watch races on the tv along with following it on the net.

Nascar provides all the information in your wishlist and then some. I do exactly what you describe on Sundays when football isn't on. Check out Nascar Online while a race is going on.

or your car to come with a mcdonald's logo sprayed on it.