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MythTV running on pcHDTV-3000 and are a killer combination for viewing and recording HDTV on Linux. Even unencrypted QAM is supported.

The pcHDTV forum is very informative if you want to set up your own PVR on Linux.

Seriously. How else could you make something like this?

In my case, though, I switched because eclipse/java runs great on linux and my only special PC needs are PVR type stuff. XAWTV, TV TIME, and lately mencoder and PCHDTV's apps.

You can do PVR stuff on windows - but not with the kind of control I've got. No, I do not use mythTv.

I've never used MCE, but does it support HD cards? I know that Windows HD cards come with their own software, but I've never used it.

I like Mythtv or VDR because they both have very good digital TV support. Mythtv will even record via Firewire, though I've never tried that. Personally I just record off-air HD using the HD-3000 card from www.pchdtv.com. The commercial detection in Mythtv works well.

One of the nice things about recording HD content is that it archives to DVD's nicely. I can de-res the picture to 720x480 and copy the AC-3 audio (no conversion) and the finished DVD looks almost professional quality. Though, this doesn't seem worth it anymore since many popular TV programs are released to DVD shortly after each season. It's nice to save current events this way (political speeches, etc).

I know one person that doesn't own a TV and just uses Bittorrent for the programs he likes. He lets others figure out the capture problems.

I am interested in building an HD-capable PVR system, but I am concerned that some HDTV capture card manufacturers have already built in Broadcast Flag support in anticipation of the regulation that was to go in effect last summer.

I know that pcHDTV is safe. Have any of the other manufacturers, such as ATI, already built in Broadcast Flag capabilities?

PCHDTV is a PCI card with Linux support that handles HDTV and does not recognize the broadcast flag. At least it would work a while until DRM finds its way into every PC motherboard (again, by government decree).

Support your public library.

I am interested in buying one or more HDTV capture cards, but I am concerned that some manufacturers have already built in Broadcast Flag support in anticipation of the regulation that was to go in effect last summer.

I know that pcHDTV is safe. Have any of the other manufacturers, such as ATI, already built in Broadcast Flag capabilities?

BTW, are there any gotchas with an HDTV card like the HD3000 or is there a better HD card out there?

"Re:MythTV Doesn't Do HDTV"

uh yes it does... HD-3000 PCHDTV

And affordability varies on what you want to do... but if you have an existing reasonably spec'd spare PC... a 90 dollar hauppauge wintv pvr 150 hardawre encoding card with remote/ir blaster is pretty reasonable. Especially if you don't have to deal with recurring subscription costs.

although the real reason to build a DIY PVR is NOT to save $$$, it's for freedom/control over your box and content and the flexibility to add functionality without waiting for Tivo to ask permission from content providers/FCC first (e.g. tivo2go). Commercial flagging/deletion, DVD ripping, cool parsing of closed captioning, etc...

e.

Yes there are, just use a pcHDTV HD-3000 http://www.pchdtv.com/hd_3000.html

Video card: Model "e-GeForce FX5200(128-A8-N304-LX)"

chris at beefstew dot net

If you still connect your DVD player to a television set using a composite or even a S/Video connector, odds are that you'll see no improvement with digital television. But if you connect your DVD player up to your monitor using component video, and want your television programs to be displayed with the same level of detail and accuracy, you can buy a ATSC tuner, set it for 480i or 480p (depending on your existing set's sophistication), Connect the spdif out to a suitable input on your stereo, and enjoy "5.1" surround sound.

Now, it won't match the detail of a 720p or 1080i set, but upgrading your display can wait, if it has to, On the other hand, if all you have is an old set with composite or RF connectors, maybe upgrading your display would be in your best interest.

I plan to build a MythTV box soon, with an HD-3000, and possibly an Air2PC card as well. Anyway, I don't plan on upgrading my TV/display for a while after that; I will connect to my SDTV via S-Video for the time being.

Can an HDTV stream be displayed on an SDTV from a myth box via S-Video? Obviously it wouldn't be at HD resolutions, but am I correct in figuring that the quality would approximate that of a DVD player output to SDTV via S-Video (which looks quite a bit better than analog cable)? Has anyone done this? Any other special hardware requirements (aside from S-Video out, which is obvious)? Scaling or conversion (digital-->analog) issues?

look for them here.

http://www.pchdtv.com/hd_3000_right_down.html

http://www.cyberestore.com/product_info.php?cPath= 28&products_id=103

The lack of commercials is only a small part of their issue. It's lack of control. Do you think they honestly don't have some idea about distribution on the net??? The issue is that they aren't making money off the distribution, and like all large organizations they move at a snail's pace.

Fortunately, I guess, the upside to this nonsense is more people will give up trying to find their favorite shows on the net and buy up the various hd capture cards out there, and we'll finally, and hopefully, see the rebirth of local broadcasting as people move to Antenna based tv viewing again.

I did just that 3 months ago and within about 5 minutes I can take the transport stream and pluck out the obnoxious commercials and then view it on my HTPC in raw transport-stream (I say raw, it's really mpeg2) which is actually better picture than most of the torrents even though it's usually 4-8GB an hour.

I went with an
http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/md p130.asp

however, I'm preparing to build out a mythtv box with 3 pchdtv cards:

http://www.pchdtv.com/

Needless to say, I'm not going to subscribe to cable, and I let my DirecTV subscription end and now that Voom is gone, I have no pay-to-play tv.

It makes it all the more difficult for the entertainment cartel to fight the provision. Using the VCR as an example, going forward the VHS tape VCR is going to become extinct. Replacing it is digital. Tivo. MythTV, Knoppmyth. Digital cards/units like Air2PC, HD3000 cards, and other versions that will come out now that the broadcast flag has been temporarily set back. Ideally, you would want the same rights for these new products that you currently have with your VCR, right?

You can currently record a television program or movie from over-the-air or cable, pop the tape out, take it to your vacation home or friend or relative's home, and watch that movie while on vacation or at your friend or relative's house. You can even pop that tape into the mail and send it to your mom's house so you can watch it together when you stop in from your business trip on your way back home. Or visiting temporarily from school prior to going home for summer break. Or simply let your mom watch it while you stay at school for extra studies.

With a digital recording and a networked home, why bother with VCR tapes? You simply transfer the recording over the internet to your mom's home. And if you forget to do it while at your home or dorm, you can do it remotely by logging in to your home network and then transferring the program to your current location.

Digital Restrictions Management schemes all interfere with the above. Interfere with rights you already have when those programs exist in other forms, on other media. Why does innovation result in lost rights?

It is very important to frame your statements using the above examples. Simply stating that proposed copyright rules or digital restrictions management or treaties dealing with "IP" and "copyrights" will outlaw future VCRs is not enough. Legislators aren't experts. Far from it. You telling them that the proposed legislation or actions by them in a treaty will outlaw future VCRs falls flat on its face because they won't believe it. They didn't believe it with VCRs even though it almost happened (remember the Sony Betamax case and MPAA's suggestion of a $100.00 "tax" on each blank tape payable to them as compensation for "lost" sales like they had/have with the current $1.00 per blank VHS tape or whatever on blank cassettes or on other media in other countries outside US like Canada and elsewhere).

You need to frame your statement in clear, short and easy to understand terms. Something that the MPAA/RIAA will have a difficult time arguing against. They will use tactics like changing the subject, or use other unrelated examples to argue their point but when they do, unbiased legislators sometimes catch it. Always frame it over rights already held with VCRs against the same rights being lost in the new technology (digital, Tivo, transferring a recording to mom's home, etc.).

Include examples that highlight constituent backlash. Imagine what will happen when cable companies (not the studios, check the MythTV mail archives) enable a broadcast flag to prevent recording of Desperate Housewives. Or have the program expire a week later. Or prevent the transfer of the episode to mom's house while on vacation at her home and she can't operate the old VCR (or reset the clock) let alone the newfangled Tivo thing. That will start them thinking what happens if they allow the entertainment cartel legislation and their own wives can't record Desperate Housewives. Or their understanding on how they can't watch football on the big screen because the wives need to watch Desperate Housewives and can't Tivo it for later or to watch over someone else's house during a playoff game or the Super Bowl.

Each one of the examples above are good if you take the time to frame the statement properly. Sho

Keep in mind that all devices now in manufacturing are BF-compliant.

This is fantastic news for products like http://www.pchdtv.com/ which would have all been destroyed by this. Means a bright future for custom pvrs no less and creativity. When you start limiting what consumers can do with information you start limiting that which is often what leads to greatness.

I think it'd be interesting to hear if these guys worked with the guys from pcHDTV to get their graphics card to work with HDTV and processing video. I think that if pcHDTV can be relatively successful creating linux-only cards, why not these guys? (and why not make sure their cards can handle MPEG2 or MPEG4 streams well - that might be a great untapped market for them).

Two, actually... pcHDTV 3000 or Air2PC. Both work with (slightly tweaked) MythTV, Neither recognizes the broadcast flag, both cost around $170US... pcHDTV is in stock at the moment, Air2PC handles unencrypted QAM (yeah, right) from cable boxes...

"To be fair, you can put an external USB tuner/encoder on your Xbox and use it to do everything. However, it's very slow, and I'd rather use it for display-only, and use another PC to do my storage and encoding. I don't like USB peripherals, so I'd be putting a PCI capture card in the server box, besides a RAID controller etc.

Personally, I don't even have TV service, although I am thinking about broadcast HDTV and some sort of PVR. How much are those HDTV tuner cards now?"

Well, unless I'm missing something... I haven't seen it done. There isn't, to my knowledge (until plextor convertx) a good linux driver for a usb tuner device... certainly not one that is usb 1.1 =) but i digress, I know what you meant I was just being picky...

as far as OTA ATSC HDTV cards... they run from 100 - 200 bucks... I *think* i've seen the ATI HDTV wonder on sale for 100 or 120 bucks recently.

What stinks is that a lot of the windows software that is commonly used to make PC pvr's/HTPC, don't have any HDTV tuner card support. So either you get really creative/kludgey or use the dissapointing included software. (or use XP MCE2005 *sigh*)

In linux of course there's the venerable HD-3000 which is back in stock I hear. (runs around 150/160 bucks I think) and that will work with MythTV of course.

e.

Well, one of my boxes, and it's 17" panel are about to migrate to my coffee table.

This setup runs pchdtvr, which spools OTA HDTV so I can record any network shows I want and watch them in glorious 10 MByte sec quality high def whenever I want.

A 17" panel about 4 feet away is not far off the same effect as a 27" TV 8 feet away. And in this case, the picture is wayyyyyy better than cable or satellite, unless you already have high def.

A 200 Gig drive holds about 20 hours which should be plenty for as much TV as I watch. Just think, news, Alias, Lost, Jay Leno, all in high def, whenever you want. Sounds good to me.

I use the PCHDTV 3000 card which absolutely kicks ass once you get the drivers working.

There's also the Air2PC card, which will do HDTV and is supported under Linux.

I recently bought a pcHDTV card, and I must say I'm disappointed so far. I don't yet have HDTV capabilities (haven't decided between buying an antenna or paying the $5/mo extra for the HD decoder box from Comcast), and the NTSC tuner is piss-poor. The picture is fuzzy, and the colors are all off (and I still can't get it right, even after hours of tweaking the color settings).

Note that the Air2PC and the pcHDTV (with driver patches) both support QAM, so it's possible to decode *unencrypted* cable signals. Unfortunately, until we have cablecard-capable hardware, we're not going to be able to decrypt encrypted cable stations. And by the time we have that, we'll have the broadcast flag to contend with...

I agree that that timetable for the analog->digital TV switchover in the US will probably be extended further, considering that prices for HDTV sets is still generally much more than that for regular sets - and they don't seem to be dropping quickly enough. Most CRT HDTVs will run you 3-4x the cost of a normal CRT TV. Good-sized LCD and plasma TVs are still out of reach for the average consumer (and even above-average consumer). I just don't see US consumers rushing out to replace their TVs, and D/A downconverters are likely pretty expensive too (so people can watch reduced-quality digital broadcasts on their analog TVs).

Apparently there's experimental support for the PCTV HD-3000 card. This card supports NTSC, ATSC, and QAM. Unfortunately there's not much you can do with the encrypted signals. Apparently Comcast transmits all digital channels as encrypted except for the local stations. I have not personally tried the QAM support since it's currently a set of experimental patches against the latest driver code. -Aaron

The broadcast flag is only for hdtv. This plextor thing is not an hdtv card, just plain old tv. The hauppage cards aren't hdtv cards either.

The only hdtv card that will work with linux (and, therefore, with mythtv) is the pcHDTV HD-3000. There are just two problems with it, a little one and a big one. The little one is that they won't be able to sell it after this summer, once the broadcast flag rule takes effect. The big problem is that it can't decrypt cable or satellite signals, so all it's good for is free, over-the-air broadcasts.

Personally, I'm thinking of sticking with plain old tv (as opposed to hdtv) when I build my myth box in the next year or two. Supposedly the FCC is going to tell broadcasters to switch to hdtv-only broadcasts in about five years so that some broadcast spectrum can be freed up, but I don't really believe it will happen that soon. Can you imagine how pissed people would be to wake up one day and find out that they no longer get tv reception?

The drivers can be tricky to install, but once working, the display is faultless.

Check out this link to see one in action.

The drivers can be tricky to install, but once working, the display is faultless.

Check out this link to see one in action.

ATSC Standard A/80:
Modulation and Coding Requirements for Digital TV (DTV) Applications Over Satellite
17 July 1999, Download PDF File
This document defines a standard for modulation and coding of data delivered over satellite for digital television contribution and distribution applications. The data can be a collection of program material including video, audio, data, multimedia, or other material. It includes the ability to handle multiplexed bit streams in accordance with the MPEG-2 Systems layer, but it is not limited to this format and makes provision for arbitrary types of data as well. QPSK, 8PSK and 16 QAM modulation modes are included, as well as a range of forward error correction techniques.

You mean the pcHDTV card doesn't exist? Or do you mean that since they only offer full Linux support (Xine and all Linux drivers are included; they also provide unsupported Windows drivers; but they offer no Mac drivers as of right now) that it's still worthless to you?

By the way, this card (that doesn't exist) does NOT support the Broadcast Flag saying "you can't record this."

Disclaimer: I do not even own one of these cards yet so I can't swear that their functionality meets the specs they promise on the web page.

Get a decent PC, make sure it's quiet enough, install Linux, then install MythTV.

Then either get a pcHDTV or better yet an Air2PC.

You're done. :-) Both cards do not bother looking at the broadcast flag and both of them either let you watch the shows in real-time or dump them to the HDD as MPEG2 files. Air2PC is currently better at receiving digital cable, but pcHDTV is supposed to do that as well pretty soon. Both cards receive HDTV OTA with no problems.

Here's the link to their QAM support announcement.

pcHDTV 3000 from here

Air2PC from here or here

2. When you're ready, build a computer for MythTV. Use this guide, look here for HDTV tips, and ask questions on this mailing list. You can also search for answers on the mailing list archive.

3. You say that Myth isn't all you want. I think you're wrong. Here's what it can do:

It can record analog content from cable, satellite, and over-the-air broadcasts.

It can record digital content from over-the-air broadcasts, including HDTV.

It can record unencrypted digital content over firewire from some digital cable boxes.

Using free tools that come with MythTV, you can cut commercials and export any recording from MythTV to a number of different formats, including Divx, Xvid, VCD, SVCD, and DVD.

4. Here's what it can't do:

Myth can't record encrypted digital content from digital cable or digital satellite. Keep in mind that no PC-based solution can do this. The only possible ways to do record content from these sources in digital format are to use a black-box solution (usually) provided by the cable or satellite company or to put on your black hacker hat and crack the encryption. If you choose the former, odds are slim and none that you will be able to export the recordings.

I am using an AMD 1700+ CPU with 1 GB memory, an nVidia GeForce FX 5700 128MB board. I only have 80+GB space on the system right now (enough for around 5 hrs recording time ) but I will probably upgrade it later this year.

I bought this card because it does not have the broadcast bit and since it was made before July it will not be encumbered with all those restrictions.

I do not, however, plan on abusing that flexibility by sharing my recordings and thus ripping off the content owners. It is the thieves that feel it is thier right to steal from people just because they can that have brought this onerrous situation upon us.

Hey, I wouldn't say you have to be a linux genius... just be able to burn a bootable knopppmyth ISO =)

The latest alpha knopmyth revision has built in support for the HD-3000 IIRC.

I did find the included documentation a little thin on the HD3000, but there is a helpful hd-3000 forum and failing that you can come to my build your own PVR site with questions/pointers/etc...

Although note: I haven't gotten around to installing my HD-3000 as of yet. Too many PVR cards/software too little time.

e.

pcHDTV 3000
This card is the successor to the original pcHDTV 2000. Its chipset allows you to record either standard over-the-air NTSC or digital over-the-air ATSC. I believe that drivers are in the works to allow you to record unencrypted QAM channels from digital cable.

Air2PC
This newer card allows you to record digital over-the-air ATSC. It allows you to record unencrypted QAM channels from digital cable.

From what I've heard, there's no clear winner for which of these two cards is better. The pcHDTV 3000 can be purchased at the pcHDTV web site for $189. The Air2PC is on sale here for $169. If you plan to purchase, do so before July 2005. After that date, it's questionable at best whether they will still be sold.

Search the MythTV user group mailing list archives for more information about these cards and support in MythTV.

pcHDTV 3000
This card is the successor to the original pcHDTV 2000. Its chipset allows you to record either standard over-the-air NTSC or digital over-the-air ATSC. I believe that drivers are in the works to allow you to record unencrypted QAM channels from digital cable.

Air2PC
This newer card allows you to record digital over-the-air ATSC. It allows you to record unencrypted QAM channels from digital cable.

From what I've heard, there's no clear winner for which of these two cards is better. The pcHDTV 3000 can be purchased at the pcHDTV web site for $189. The Air2PC is on sale here for $169. If you plan to purchase, do so before July 2005. After that date, it's questionable at best whether they will still be sold.

Search the MythTV user group mailing list archives for more information about these cards and support in MythTV.

http://www.pchdtv.com/

ATI's method of competing has been to lie continually about the future of being able to use this feature. For example, back in 2000, ATI announced the VHA SDK to allow Linux users access to the MPEG2 accelerators on their cards. After 5 years of waiting, ATI still has not released this to the general public. Instead, they claimed in a FAQ that the GATOS project is currently working toward hardware assisted IDCT... But the GATOS project had already publically announced "no planned support."

So, I contacted ATI developer relations via the web in 2003 and waited three months. They never got back to me. So, I contacted them by phone, they confirmed the following:

• ATI has no plans to ever release the announced VHA SDK to the general public
  
• Because of "lack of interest" (I guess on ATI's part, because there is plenty of interest to be found on Linux mailing lists), they feel no obligation to ever honor the press release
  
• ATI has never release specs for doing iDCT to the GATOS project and does not expect the GATOS project to be able to support iDCT
  
• When ATI's Linux FAQ stated that GATOS would be providing support, ATI already knew they had a policy which required withholding the specifications on how to write drivers to use the iDCT acceleration feature.
  

Is that cable providers could start supporting PC based hardware like the pcHDTV high-def video cards. Right now these things only really work with antennas because most cable companies scramble their channels and you need the decoder box to unscramble them. Well if you could plug a CableCard into a pcHDTV-like device then you'd be able to use it with your cable tv instead of just an antenna.

HD hardware - some work to set up
http://pchdtv.com/hd_3000.html

no cable card support that I know of, but some recievers have serial ports and other ways to talk to the box. Some folks even do an IR blaster to change the channels.

Take a look at the mythtv forums, lots of good info on this.

The HP thing will certainly be DRM-ized.
But a MythTV box with a pcHDTV card pays no attention to DRM. ;-)

It is still legal to sell broadcast-flag-noncompliant devices in the US until June 2005. One such device is pcHDTV which works fine with MythTV
Even after June, it will still be legal to use such devices, if they were purchased before the deadline.

Can you put two and two together now? ;-)

Oh, and if you're worried about DRM in the context of HDTV, have a look at pcHDTV:

http://www.pchdtv.com/

It totally ignores the broadcast flag. ;-) Works with MythTV. Enough said.
BTW, it will be illegal to sell it in the US after June 2005 (or something like that), so plan accordingly. ;-)
It will always be legal to use it, if purchased before the deadline, because all such devices will be grandfathered into the new regulations automatically.

Cool so can I use my ATI HDTV-Wonder card with MythTV?

No, but you can use a pcHDTV PC3000. Perhaps if ATI would open their drivers, you could use their card, too.

And play back the high-def versions of my favorite movies on the extra DVD in the boxed set (they're in WMV9 format).

Shortly.

And legally play DVDS?

You can play DVDs now on MythTV - in fact, I watched Napoleon Dynamite last night on it.

That's just the way it is. People don't piss away 10,000 on a high def plasma screen, 20,000 on a high end THX certified surround sound system (and that's cheap!) and then feed it with a 640i RCA video out jack from a 5 year old piece of shit video card

Let's see - don't most of the high-def plasma screens have inputs for DVI? If you didn't get one that does, well shame on you. And my Myth box sends digital out to my THX-certified sound system (that I didn't pay $20k on, thank you very much).

you could use this hardware to pull in terrestrial HDTV.

You could, but you would be better off using the pcHDTV HD-3000 card which is designed to work well with terrestial, aka Over The Air (OTA), HDTV, "legacy" NTSC, and can legally ignore the FCC Broadcast Flag until June 2005.

To clarify, GNU Radio is a Free Software software defined radio implementation, and the USRP (Universal Software Radio Peripheral) is the semi-official reference hardware platform designed by Matt Ettus. The USRP is real-life useless without additional modules for basicRX (receiver) and/or basicTX (transmitter). Depending on the usage, you might require a up/down converter aka a transverter.

There are others working on similar hardware (e.g. SSRP for a bit simpler and lower cost, or the amateur radio oriented Flex-Radio) as well, and I expect that the USRP hardware will be copied, cloned, and improved upon in a short time.

So I get my present, in the mail, a little early.
A new HDTV card...
I go to download the linux only drivers and...

NeverEverNoSanity!!!

Argh! &$@*#! Humbug.

does it support the HD3000?

Or the HDTV Wonder from ATi?

And no, I haven't able to go to linvdr's site....it's called the /. effect.

Another Linux-based PVR will allow you to record HD. The catch is that it only records HD over-the-air (OTA) broadcasts. So if you live in an area with HD broadcasts (at the least, most major metro areas in the U.S.), and you have an antenna, you can have an HD-capable MythTV PVR.

The card is the pcHDTV 3000, available at http://www.pchdtv.com/.

The MythTV web site is http://mythtv.org.

For info about HD and MythTV, search the MythTV mailing list archive for "hdtv" or "pcHDTV".

Finally, a step-by-step install guide for MythTV is available here.

http://www.pchdtv.com/

According to this post on the pcHDTV forums, the HD-3000 card is capable of decoding QAM. It's not supported yet, maybe because the driver can't do it?

According to this post on the pcHDTV forums, the HD-3000 card is capable of decoding QAM. It's not supported yet, maybe because the driver can't do it?

ATI however, does make a HDTV card, but the problem with it is it only does broadcast free to air type HD, which is basically non existant in my area.

Since free-to-air decoders are all we're likely to see for awhile, it's probably best to offload decryption to your set-top receiver.

Therefore, even though pcHDTV has no more stock of the HD-3000, and none are available on eBay, it's worth exploring. HDTV input support may be limited to RF, but one can circumvent this problem with nominal quality loss by using a (semi-)pro HDTV scan converter. Maybe this one is affordable? This one is probably much cheaper, but I don't know anything about it.

Using a scan converter is a sub-optimal solution, but other than being useful gear in general, but it does allow you to get over both the adapter and decoder stumbling blocks.

Quasi-related side note: as a PC-to-TV solution, scan converters have substantially better output than TV-out cards.