Slashdot Mirror
TiVo OS Update Adds Content Protection
generic-man writes "According to PVRBlog, TiVo's new operating system update enables content protection flags on a per-show basis. On some programs, notably syndicated shows, a red flag appears to indicate that the copyright holder has requested that TiVo devices not save a program past a certain date and that the program may not be copied to a PC using TiVo to Go. TiVo users were told to expect this style of flag only on pay-per-view and video on demand programming, and as such are upset that TiVo has restricted the capabilities of the receivers they bought and subscribed to use. The TiVo Community boards have some screen shots and firsthand accounts."
Just one more good reason to bite the bullet, sit down, and build yourself a MythTV box.
There's a good walkthrough on building a MythTV box over on O'Reilly Digital Media, and another on the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
"Welcome to the (our DRM) future!"
- MPAA, RIAA, Disney, M$ and associates
I don't feel like it...
Is it using the evil bit?
This is where Open Source really shines. No dependence on service providers, no taking away what you already have.
For some reason I remember reading that Tivo struggles to stay out of the red and that they are really not even that profitable. So why then would they add in a feature to restrict the functionality of their product and piss people off?
There has to be something else here, this just doesnt make buisness sense.
There's something wrong about selling a device to do something, and later limiting the ability of the device to do what it was designed to do.
Tivo's sales dropped dramatically on their latest attempts to restrict what people do with their own bought-and-paid-for hardware.
also in other news, sales of MythTV increased for the 99th straight quarter at the new increased price of $0.00
MythTV .. no fuss no muss, free, HDTV/CableTV PVR.
End of discussion :-)
This is a bug on behalf of the Tivo software...
c opy_protection.html
See
http://blogs.chron.com/techblog/archives/2005/09/
Update: Jim Denney, director of product marketing for TiVo, said the instances of standard TV shows being affected by new copy protection restrictions likely are "false positives."
Denney said the copy protection is trigged by a flag in the video signal. The reports appearing on the Web appear to be cases where TiVo misinterprets noise in the signal as a copy protection flag, and imposes the restrictions.
"During the test process, we came across people who had false positives because of noisy analog signals," he said. "We actually delayed development (of the new TiVo software) to address those false positives."
Apparently they still didnt fix the issues.
The Doormat
If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
I'm just waiting for Apple to release iTV. People could just download TV shows and watch them whenever they want. TiVo has shown that there would be a demand for such a service.
Bradley Holt
...it's another example to use when explaining to people exactly why they should be opposed to DRM and the Broadcast Flag. It's good that it will spread awareness of the issue, so that we have a better chance of stopping it before it becomes mandatory by law.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
They limited the particular program stored to only 7 days?!?! That's ridiculous.
So much for saving your favorite concerts, as I have done.
(I just hope my ReplayTV doesn't head toward this...)
But the age-old argument holds: this won't work for (just an example) my parents.
In the past, Tivo employees have been very helpful in helping users work around these types of issues - they don't really care if you record the show, install larger hard drives, pull video off to your computer, as long as they get their subscription fee.
Hopefully a workaround comes out and makes it to the forums.
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
Is there someplace I can buy a MythTv box, so I don't have to muddle through it myself? I don't mind learning, but I'd rather have a working box while I do so.
Or you could send Tivo (and their new puppeters) a message and go open source. Everytime you use cracked corporate software, you're hurting open source developers.
Read: http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2005/09/tivo_72_os_adds .html
h p?p=3233152&&#post3233152
h p?p=3236586&&#post3236586
Quoted from one of the posters: This is a BUG!
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.p
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.p
TiVo recognizes the Macrovision flag but there have been NO cases of a network or studio actually utilizing it.
Even HBO whose websites says OnDemand stuff can't be DVR'ed... well, I could TiVo my OnDemand stuff just fine. I did all the time. That was before 7.2 and I don't have HBO any longer but it did work.
Again - this is a BUG. Neither the local station or FOX intended for this syndicated rerun to be flagged like this.
Are bug bad? Sure. But it's not worth getting all up in arms at TiVo about.
People will continue to plunk down cash for these products and services, because most people don't care about DRM. Even this won't really affect them, why do you think you can buy the Superbowl on DVD, or the World Series on DVD? People shell out $$ for seasons and seasons of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, etc. So they DRM the shows on your Tivo after a month.. by then people have either wiped it, or bought the damn thing on DVD.
Then there is the minority, who are not media consumers, who remain unaffected by this.
Before the tinfoil hatters come out, and blame the ??AA or the Government, think: when was the last time you watched one of those old Star Trek episodes you taped 15 years ago "in case you ever wanted to watch them again"?
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
This will either not get used much and be easily ignored, or it will cause a wave of dissent and defection among Tivo viewers which will lead to it getting yanked. It either forces the issue or it's irrelevant. Either one is fine with me. Let's rumble.
fnord.
5 day stock price
oops a >3% drop in 5 days, nice move Tivo, time to short their stock methinks
Why do companies think that imposing their will upon people will keep customers around? If I had a TIVO I would cancel my subscription, run over it with my car and then mail it back.
Can anyone explain what this is helping? Who on this earth makes more money with this feature?
... you'll see that this was a bug found by someone using their TiVo over antennae, not cable, which could have distorted the signal.
The whole macrovision flag is for PPV shows, not regular shows.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
How can we expect readers of slashdot to RTFA if we can't get anyone writing the summary to do so. heh
Anyway, the old software, 3.x, does not support the broadcast flag, I'll continue to use it until I'm forced to switch to MythTV or GBPVR cause of all the advertising. (Which Tivo is letting run rampant, IMHO.)
Gonzo Granzeau
"Nothing the god of biomechanics wouldn't let you into heaven for.." -Roy Batty
http://data.coolnicks.co.uk/IMG_2674.jpg
Here's the now playing list. (yes yes, I know, Oprah and Dharma, what can I say, it's a shared TiVo.)
http://data.coolnicks.co.uk/IMG_2675.jpg
Here's the program info.
http://data.coolnicks.co.uk/IMG_2676.jpg
Here's the keep until screen.
http://data.coolnicks.co.uk/IMG_2677.jpg
Here's the show details screen.
Viewership of cable and over-the-air television dropped dramatically when people realized there wasn't anything worth recording on to begin with.
Tivo, until now, was a nice and consumer friendly service despite the small tricks they pulled out of their sleeves like "must watch commercials" or product placements on recordings etc. but I took it as survival tactics in the marketplace. And they were livable with.
But when they started sucking up to hollywood, whiich ithe main reason why people bought tivo or PVRs, they crossed a boundary and started to become annoying.
I think it is time to tell customer to tell tivo, screw you and send it to the list of failed companies with great ideas, who just could not execute the idea well.
__________
The more I know people, the more I love animals
TIVO has attempted to suggest the flags are a bug. While TIVO admits to making the technology available and active, not a single content provider is using it. That said: I do think it's a bad idea.
As a TIVO owner, I have to insist that TIVO needs to remove this technology because content flags that require a time frame within which to watch the show defeats the purpose of my purchasing a TIVO in the first place. I'm their customer because I could timeshift on my terms. NOT theirs. Not Fox's. Not NBC's.
I also want the ability to transfer it to another medium. If I lose that, TIVO loses me as a customer and no amount of lifetime memberships and HDTV versions of TIVO at a discounted rate will prevent me from leaving.
If TIVO does not remove this feature, I will reconsider remaining a TIVO Customer, and both TIVO and all the content providers lose a "captive" audience member.
"Love is like pi - natural, irrational, and very important." (Lisa Hoffman)
I use ReplayTV and have never had any problems with content protection. There is even a great open source tool called DVArchive (at sourceforge) that lets one copy shows to/from the ReplayTV units and even stream content directly from the ReplayTV to any machine that supports HTTP streaming.
I highly recommend both of these products for the geek who wants a great DVR and the freedom to DivX content at will.
How many roads must a man walk down? 42.
I agree with the fact that it will get hacked around, but I disagree with this being a "no biggie" for two reasons:
1)It's a pain to have to get/create a hack for this.
2)This shows the beginning (or maybe the further progression) of how restrictive things are and are going to be in our future.
What happens when people don't read the fine print on service agreements and that all important clause which says TiVo can change the terms of usage at any time without prior notice.
And this is supposed to be so much better than taping? The time shifting abilities of PRV's are great when watching live shows, but really the only people for whom the PVR experience is "revolutionary" are folks too stupid to program their VCR's to begin with.
This and digital cable continue to be examples of consumers choosing wiz-bang technology simply because it's new and not because it's better. Few users have the TV's or proper audio equipment to enjoy "the digital difference" but they all lap it up because of all the stations they can't get otherwise, few of them seem to think about how much more difficult exercising fair use rights becomes because of the converter boxes needed for digital cable.
The commercial PVR was a great way to improve the lives of nongeeks. It was something that did a useful function that people would have difficulty figuring out themselves.
With this DRM crap, it removes most of the value added. If you can't store the video to your liking, the PVR becomes pretty much useless. I'm not talking about people who can make their own PVR out of the parts. I'm talking about my mother here.
I sense the rapid penetration of these devices will end right about...now.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
Does this affect Directivo too? Not all the Tivo software updates get passed through.
I don't think there's much you can do with it except scavenge the HD. But, you can always sell it on ebay to recoup some cost.
There are advantages to living in the cracks sometimes. Harry Harrison once wrote that every society has rats, and even an incredibly advanced one would have the equivalent, even if it's a 'stainless steel' rat. By owning a ReplayTV instead of a Tivo, I feel like I'm living in that crawlspace, away from all the media attention that a company like Tivo gets.
Replay got sued for the automatic commercial skip, but once that PVR had been thoroughly surpassed in numbers by Tivo, attention shifted elsewhere and now the only people who know about Replay are the owners.
1. I can pull my shows off my Replay over the network, no broadcast flag.
2. My 5060 (w/ the requisite hard drive upgrade, of course) still automatically skips commercials. They aren't taking away features I bought, and I appreciate it.
3. There's no pop-up advertisements like Tivo has. There just isn't the money in doing stuff like that because the user base is so small (but the development effort doesn't get cheaper as a result).
You can see some of the same stuff happening with Apple. The Macintosh has, lately, demonstrated less enthusiasm about adopting the various DRM flavor of the month technologies that the Windows PC has. This is in part because there isn't the same level of scrutiny, and also because the development effort of adding that stuff doesn't amortize across the user base as well. I'm sure there are other 'do no evil' type considerations and whatnot, but money is the real motive power to be reckoned with.
I sometimes wonder what the implications are for the rest of society. Do I, the middle class anonymous guy have more freedom than the popular, rich people? Probably. There's no media scrutiny of my every move, if I had a T-mobile Sidekick, nobody would bother trying to break into it, I can post diatribes to slashdot without apologizing via a press release, and so on.
Just a thought on the trade offs between being comfortable and caged in the living room above versus being a bit cramped, but living the freedom that only the unknown can claim...
Since adding DRM means that the Tivo device won't be able to do things that older versions could (and thus has less functionality), surely this means that they'll compensate customers by lowering prices. Right? Right? Right???
Andrew Lenahan http://www.starblind.com/
I've felt that a lot of the complaints against TiVo to this point has been mainly petty Slashdot whining, but now there's something to really complain about.
How is MythTV when it comes to HD? Because I've got my hacked TiVo box for now, but when I get an HD set and all that, it'll be time to move to different hardware.
who's doing his best Samsonite impression with a cartel of gorillas.
Wrong place to fight the battle. Instead, when your local affiliate stations FCC licences come up for renewal, write letters to the FCC asking that they not be renewed because the network they carry isn't serving your community well. And list everything you object to, and include as a parting shot that they don't respect the American traditions that keep our nation free and strong and are unwilling to live up to the agreements they made with the public when we ceed OUR airwaves for their broadcasts. If a station manager sees a spike of say 100 of those letters in a community, from sane and secular people, that will be a little scary.
Hahah, It's only a matter of time before someone gets into the firmware and has a hack to ignore this problem. Just like the mods available for the Playstation, PS2, PSP, XBOX etc regarding copied CDs. There's got to be a flaw in there somewhere to be exploited.
Generation Trance: What generation are you?
I also have a ReplayTV and can't live without it now. They are also very easy to increase storage size. (much easier than Tivo from what I understand)
I'm sure Tivo arnt stupid, they will have realised that this is needed to shut the networks up and that this will also split their customer base into three:
- people who think its totally fair
- people who don't like it but will live with it
- people who will move to build-your-own PVR's and will probably end up creating something much better than Tivo anyway
Just as long as they know what they're doing from a business perspective.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
I wonder in the future if they will start to restrict any episode of a show that was released on DVD. It will be a move to make more money off of these shows by forcing a person to actually spend the money on the DVD instead of saving it on your Tivo or moving it onto your computer.
I love my SageTV. If you have the savey'ness, then build your own 'tivo'. I love my SageTV (Dual Tuners, Remote, etc.. 'love'en it).
MythTv is awesome too, from what I hear.
This is stupid and short sighted behavior from the industry. Those early adopters finance new technologies until the manufacturing costs drop down to where mainstream consumers start buying the stuff. They keep burning the early adopters like this and they're going to have a hard time getting any new technology off the ground.
16mm aimed at the TV.
Look Ma, no DRM.
HA-HA!
Suckers. Seriously, who couldn't see this - and worse - coming, eventually?
Methinks my MythTV box will be unaffected.
Yeah, yeah, TiVos are cheap, and Myth requires some effort, but you get what you pay for. Okay, maybe not if you buy a TiVo...
If you don't like the idea that some entertainment producers practice DRM, then why don't you become a producer who releases entertainment that is free of DRM. It should be easy. Create a show that everyone wants to see and then you can freely and voluntarily choose to release it without DRM.
Once your show becomes popular enough, the producers who use DRM may voluntarily decide to change their past DRM decisions and release without DRM.
I'd like to see this fought out in the arena of voluntary decisions.
This just makes me even happier to have MythTV.
I mean, I understand why you can't play emulators or rip DVDs (that I bought) with Tivo, but now you can't even record TV shows permanently? I mean, isn't that the whole point of getting a Tivo in the first place?
You can divx tivo content, but it's a little more roundabout process.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
MythTv, I haven't tried it myself - actually I haven't bothered watching any form of TV much in the last few years - but BS like this would never be an issue.
I've had a tivo since shortly after they launched their service. I've been a beta tester for them on several occasions. I've sold many friends on the product, but no more. I'm closing my account as I type this. Go fuck yourself Tivo.
Keep Austin Weird!
#ifdef TIN_FOIL_HAT
I recently noticed a boat-load of job openings at Tivo. Makes one wonder if there wasn't a mass exodus because of this....
#endif
Fortunately, you hackers all use open source software exclusively, so you aren't at the mercy of some company. With your technical skills, it's trivial to disable the protection and get everything just the way you like it. /sarcasm
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
There are no real affordable do it yourself HDTV PVR solutions.
You haev a ReplayTV DVR? Is it right next to your Betamax VCR?
There is no God, and Dirac is his prophet.
...so that I could point out that in Corporate America, TiVo owns you!
* * *
It is a dada story -- it has no moral.
the media doesn't want it to (you wouldn't expect the **AA to help you in this, would you?).
I guess, that if you REALLY want information to be free, you have to set it free using YOUR resources (i.e. MythTV).
There's no other way.
Have you bothered to RTFM?
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
I have two ReplayTVs. I don't have any of the problems you read about with TiVo--and I can skip past commercials, not just fast-forward. I don't understand why TiVo is more popular that ReplayTV. It is certainly is not as good.
I just wish someone would bring us MythTV for MacOS X.. not just a front end, but the whole shabang.. Have 2 spare Macs that I'd love to hack into Myth boxes for myself and family. Using that existing kit is fine, but buying an Intel box just for this, right now, isn't doable $$$-wise...
Shrug.
How would you like it if you took your car in for factory service and they downloaded an update to the car's computer that restricted your speeds to 55mph because of pressure from your state highway patrol?
Don't tell me that because there was some fine print in some d@mn license agreement that you've already agreed to this ahead of time. I sincerely doubt that the TiVo license agreement clearly states: We absoutely will reduce the functionality of your purchased and owned equipment in the near future without your consent to appease the broadcasting and content creation industries.
You bought the box for what it would do at the time of purchase, and have a right to continue to expect it to perform to at least those levels in the future!
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
So instead of being a "feature" that potentially allows your time-shifting abilities to be blocked by the whims of media companies, it's a "feature" that potentially allows your time shifting abilities to be blocked by the whims of media companies or random electromagnetic interference???
That's even worse...
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
and as such are upset that TiVo has restricted the capabilities of the receivers they bought and subscribed to use
Surprised? Upset? Gimme a break! Companies do that, because we let them get away with it.
Best solution here? A mass returning of TiVos for lying to their customers (arguably a violation of their end of the contract for not acting in good faith? Don't know how well that would hold up in court, though, IANAL). Then set up your own Myth box.
However, for those who don't want the hassle of trying to explain DRM to a service desk clerk who couldn't care less, just patch your TiVo software to not encrypt the content, install Samba on it, and mount the drive from any other machine in your house. Poof, the idea of automatically deleting content after a certain time becomes moot.
Permission to use hardware I own, and monthly payments to keep it working? Hah! Once you have the hardware in-hand, their ability to stop you from using it however you want vanishes.
I agree.
over the past 2 years, I am increasingly glad I went with ReplayTV over Tivo. whether its the phone line requirement of Tivo, or the delayed inability to transfer content to my pc/mac from Tivo to the broadcast flags now showing up on Tivo...
if only ReplayTV had the channel guide layout or the remote from Tivo...then it would be the best of both worlds!
the history of the world
I'm glad ReplayTV's been left to dangle without an update for so long ... it's probably not worth DM's effort to put this in now.
But still, once my ReplayTV finally dies, I'll be building a myth box. Or maybe getting a Mac Mini and an eyeTV unit.
-EvilMagnus
Is there a way to transfer recorded shows from the DirectTV Hi-Def Tivo to a PC?
What makes TiVo a great product isn't its PVR functionality, it's the thoughtfully designed interface. This is something I don't think people who havn't used TiVo really understand. From the way it rewinds a little after you stop fast forwarding to the schedule tables, TiVo constantly does things that make me happy. It's like TiVo is my friend. This, I think, is the reason that so many people (myself included) are fanaticaly devoted to their TiVo.
I'm not saying MythTV doesn't have its benefits, but it certainly isn't a replacement for my TiVo.
I love my TiVo, and despite reading stuff about TiVo placing ads over content, I've never seen it myself. And I'm good enough with the remote that I never watch commercials unless I want to.
But this is simply poor engineering... something I've never said about TiVo before. I understand that if I buy a Pay Per View movie for a buck, I'm not supposed to be able to watch it over and over forever... for that I have to buy the $20 DVD. So, why don't they just charge me per view? I should be able to keep it as long as I want as long as I haven't watched it. Then, after I watch it, it could be deleted, or stay on the hard drive and charge me another buck if I watch it again.
That's pay-per-view!
Damn!
I really hope they don't implement this Macrovision stuff on my BitTorrent Client.
Now that would be unfortuanate!
--- blackironprison, where ignorance is bliss....
TiVo has been steadily going downhill lately. The best thing you can do: get a card for your PC and make your own TiVo. It gives you much more flexibility.
Seriously I want to go to all the 'holders' and vomit and shit all over them for a finite amount of time at the end of which time they have to clean it up or face penalities.
I want content providers to copywrite my colonoscopy movie and licence it back to me.
Fuck you in the plutonium flames of hell.
If TIVO thinks viewers will make that fine of a distinction, let me remind you that this is the same general public who couldn't tell the difference between a real war hero and a dope-smoking, draft-dodging Connetitcut Yankee pretending to be a religious fighter pilot from Texas.
Don't toss that old VCR just yet.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
...if you have no way of knowing what you bought.
The most insidious thing about DRM-enabled devices is their ability to change the deal long after you've made your purchase decision.
No doubt there is a legal fiction that you agreed to some fine print somewhere that says, in effect, "I know I'm buying a pig in a poke."
We need a "truth-in-DRM" law. If there were a conspicuous sticker saying "Warning: this device may not actually record the programs you want to record. There is no way for you to know in advance which programs you can or can't record. The fact that you can record your favorite programs now does not mean you will be able to record them in the future," then purchasers would know what they were buying and the free marker could operate.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
So, given that the whole point of this is that a bug caused a 'normal' program to inadvertently get flagged as a PPV one, you'd have rather the box messed up and charged you money to watch it, rather than just messed up and made the recording less viewable (though not completely useless) than normal?
That's your call, I guess. Personally, I accept that Tivo would never get a box past the networks that completely bypassed the Macrovision etc. on PPV broadcasts, and this seems to be the best compromise available.
Not that any of it even directly affects me, as Tivo don't sell boxes in the UK. So I'm just speaking hypothetically.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
If TiVo implements this, I'm throwing my TiVo out the door. I think TiVo is by far the best PVR out there, but I'd much rather settle for a less elegant UI and move to something like Replay TV. Replay TV has got some pretty sweet features of it's own and I was considering it as my next DVR but I really do (or did anyway) love my TiVo.
The walkthrough on Electronic Frontier Foundation says that to legally do this, you have to do it before July 30, 2005.
It seems that "biting the bullet" in this case could mean putting your lips around the barrel and try to catch it as it comes out?
Tivo exec Ignatius Given announced that the company recently struck an agreement which will allow Tivo units to play back recorded programs only when those shows are actually airing on live television.
Mr. Given was quoted as likening this agreement to releasing a directors cut of a movie. "Now viewers can be certain that they are viewing content exactly during the timeslot intended by the shows creator."
This news followed the previous release stating that Tivo would be replacing the skipped commercials with 30 second banner ads.
(For those who don't read all of the references, as a preamble to my post, an example of what is happening is some tivo owner had a two year old episode of "King of the Hill" deleted from his tivo without his permission!)
If this is true, and the direction turns to restrictions of what, when, and how I can use my tivo, I will be canceling that subscription, and ebaying the hardware while (and if) it retains any value. I have owned six tivos now, each time I've upgraded (I actually own two), I've "turned on" others to tivo by sending my oldest machine to them for free, they only had to pay the subscription fee.
I'm a huge fan of tivo, ergonomically, their system is as close to right as it comes. It's a great concept, implemented wonderfully.
But my relationship with television in general is already a tenuous thread and tivo is what's made it palatable. If they start putting restrictions like this in new releases, fuck them... I'm outta there.
I sometimes wonder who the fuckbrains are that think they're improving their IP situation by applying screws to customers this way.
TiVo website blame macrovision and even go so far as to say "Please do not contact TiVo Customer Support regarding copy protection related issues" is a total cop-out.
I think every TiVo owner should precisely be contacting Customer Support about this. Jam up the telephone lines. How else is the company every going to know how their customers truly feel.
Old saying: If you don't take care of the customer, someone else will.
update: I just wanted to reiterate that yes, this was the result of a mistake on the part of the station providing syndicated shows.
Don't consider this an update -- consider a warning! Your local stations already have this switch in place, and all they need to do is flip it now!
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
This "protection" seems a little too harsh to me. Why should copyright holders care if a show is stored on your TiVo? I can see them adding a flag to disable the feature of copying the shows to your own PC, and in effect the internet.
I, for one, would be very pissed if I were a TiVo subscriber and basically the terms of service have changed. I go on vacation for a month, and all of a sudden TiVo can't keep my recorded shows because of the almighty copyright.
I got nothin'
It was an interesting read, but not really newsworthy, in my opinion. Mostly, it boiled down to "much ado about nothing". Sure, they support content protection flags. Right now, only PPV actively uses them. And the one example of misuse was the mistake of a local broadcast television station over the antenna signal. So, if they support content protection flags for analog signals, which can apparently be easily removed, what does it really matter to us? There's the potential for abuse, but until that happens, it's not a problem. Just keep a watch on it.
Because it's about grace. It really is about grace.
A few weeks ago, I called Tivo and asked that they cancel my service due to lack of Mac OS support and these DRM issues (it's been known for a while that Tivo would honor the broadcast flag with or without a legislative requirement to do so).
They transfered me to a customer retention specialist who offered me a free month of service. I declined the offer. He then offered me half price service for life. I took the offer.
So even if you don't care about these DRM issues or Mac OS support, call Tivo and threaten to cancel so that you can get half price service. It'll save you about $80 a year.
-J
HOLLYWOOD, CA, USA
In a surprise move, TiVo annouced it was screwing its customers by adding expiration dates and export restrictions to its shows.
Speaking off the record, a high-ranking TiVo executive commented "BWUHAHAHAHAHA all your shows are belong to us BWUHAHAHAHAHA." His assistant later clarified the remark, saying "Only North Koreans need freedom to watch TV without restrictions."
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Tivo doesn't require a phone line. You can hook up an external USB NIC to it, but that added about $40 (at the time) to the price tag and was a big reason I went with ReplayTV. I am also glad I did.
Well, I have been a longtime Tivo user. I hacked my series 1 box to add more space, and I bought a series 2 box pre hacked.
This initial incident seems to have been caused by a big that has highlighted a legitimate feature, but the cat is out of the bag now.
Here is my problem with this.
Tivo changed the way I watch TV, but perhaps it changed it more than they thought it would. I have no problem recording a show and not watching it for a few weeks, then sitting down on night and catching up on a months worth of new episodes. If the show gets dumped after 5 days, well, then I'm not going to see it.
So now, depending on the network's whims, my Tivo box may have just become much less usefull. I can tell you 2 things that I will NOT be doing.
1) Changing my TV viewing habits back to where I work around the shows schedule. There are precious few shows that I;m now going to rearrange my schedule around.
2) Buy another Tivo. I was considering replacing my lifetime service series 1 with a lifetime service hacked series 2 (waiting for HDTV), however, it looks like this will be much less useful than what I am used to having.
Sorry Tivo. It was a good run, but the other options are looking better and better all the time.
Eschew Obfuscation
this has been coming for months - DRM, TCPA - isn't it great - now there is going to be great iptv with the same drm crap that probably the MPAA and RIAA are forcing on the content providers.
I say don't buy the crap - show them we will not stand for are rights being digitally managed - make them go bankrupt and spend the money on doing some family fun stuff. screw them and their movies we don't need them and never did. I hope the sob's go bankrupt and have to sell at least two of their houses.
Looking at the links provided by other posters, I see that they suggest pre-built MythTV units at either $700 or $1800. As an exercise for the student, compare and contrast to the $49 price of a Tivo and describe why either of the units is worth two to four times the price of the Tivo plus a lifetime subscription.
at the time I purchased my DVR(3 years ago), Tivo would ONLY do initial setup via land line...after initial setup, it could use the usb NIC.
since I only have cell service, I went with Replay.
the history of the world
You can't maintain control over things you sold. If you want to maintain control, don't sell it.
So if you purchase your cable modem from your cable provider, you shouldn't have to pay for monthly cable service? It is, after all, your cable modem. You should not have to pay to keep using something that you already own.
If you purchased your cell phone from a cell phone provider, you shouldn't have to pay for monthly service. After all, you own the cell phone.. and now they want more of your money just so you can use it?
Oh wait... in both of those examples, you use the company's resources in order to use the product that you own. Kind of like how you pay Tivo to use their guide service that they maintain and operate.
By the way, you can use Tivo without the guide. It just becomes an expensive digital VCR. But a Tivo without a subscription is still far more useful than a cable modem without a subscription.
-CausticPuppy "Of all the people I know, you're certainly one of them." -Somebody I don't know
Yes the technology is in place but is believed to have been activated due to the incompetence of a single broadcaster who erroneously set flags on all of its programming. Read the blogs, most come to this conclusion.
Never ascribe to malice what can be adequately attributed to ignorance. -Napoleon
i don't have tivo but I have to say that this is a shame that tivo has done this. I hate having my rights infringed upon and told what to do when I'm doing nothing wrong. If I want to keep an episode or a movie for months or years then I should be allowed to. I guess it's a paid service so you have to live with it but it still doesn't make it right.
ReplayTV sued to the waterline after recieving publicity on Slashdot.
This is exactly what happened with WinMX -- somebody told the world about it and it stopped working.
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
Perhaps someone else would care to release an update that fixes the bugs introduced in this software release.
With this update the old VCRs I have laying around are now more functional than a TIVO. At least with a VCR I know that if I go away for a month the shows I want recorded will still be waiting for me. This update for TIVO is a death toll for what was once a very promising device/company.
If you borrow books or video from the library, are you allowed to make a copy to keep.
How is this content protection different? The chap who owns the TV show doesn't want you to copy it for keeps. It's his show & he decides whether it can be copied or not & how long the copy can be kept.
I don't see anything unfair in this.
I see what the Tivo folks are doing, but I can't understand why. Are they trying to preempt regulation? What's in it for them to cripple their products?
Bloody great. I just got my new Humax the day before yesterday and now they pull this crap on me? What is the point of having the machine if I cannot store things???
He's not saying the problem is that they are selling boxes that then you have to buy service for.
He's saying that they are selling boxes and then expect you cannot modify the boxes in any way you see fit.
It's like cell-phone companies (to use your example) locking a phone to one service - users have figured out how to unlock many phones, or activate features the carriers do not want you do have.
In the case of a cable modem, you bought it and can modfy how it does routing as you see fit. Yes you have to pay a monthly service to get a connection through it, but you can still modify the box.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Does anyone know whether the copy protection also limits the ability to save the program to DVD? We have a series 1 TiVo, and had been thinking about upgrading to a new TiVo with a DVD burner. But if I can't save shows to the DVD, there isn't much point if I can't actually save shows to it.
Sorry but the courts struck down content flags so Tivo implementing this may be illegal and if content providers are trying to sneak this into television this way then I'm sure the EFF will get onto them for this.
Because then TiVo would need to be able to communicate with every cable networks PPV system and billing system - thats something that will never happen. If you want to view the PPV again, just buy it again from your cable network.
This story really cheesed me off this morning prior to work. I like TiVo, and up until this point, my only criticism about the company has been with their snail-pace movement towards adding necessary features to their product (CableCard 1.0/2.0 support, HD support, etc.), but this is inexcusable. I would understand DRM inclusion to PPV content and I would accept that. I would even accept this DRM for TiVo software updates to the Comcast DVRs scheduled for next year since Comcast already has such *understandings* with the content companies...but to add this to existing TiVo Series2 set-top boxes for general programming? No frakkin' way.
Its time for a shareholder revolt against TiVo's obviously inept management team.
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
I was just contemplating whether it's better for me to go through the expense and time to build a decent PVR myself, or just go the easy route and buy a TiVo. The TiVo would be cheaper, and would "just work", but without the freedom and control it's not worth the savings. MythTV, here I come...
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
I've got an old Ultimate TV box and I have yet to see a pvr (including TIVO) that comes anywhere near it.
The menus are much simplier to navigate, the +30/-7 second skip is perfect, the keyboard has a nice layout (A little bulky, but comes in handy for searches). Nothing else comes close.
Maybe it's just that we like what we are used to?
If many shows start getting flagged Tivo is in trouble. I leave many shows on Tivo for weeks, months, even a year before I watch them. That's what I like about Tivo, if I decide I want to watch The Simpsons at any given time I have several episodes to choose from.
The biggest reason to have Tivo is to watch TV on your own terms. This is the sort of thing that would inspire me to build a MythTV box.
You'll complain up and down until you're blue in the face but at the end of the day, if you still subscribe to the service, you're no different than a crack addict complaining about a price increase.
The only difference any of you can make is by cancelling the service. This is the only thing they will understand which is really very convenient.
The only question that remains: are [i]you[/i] going to behave like a crack addict or are you going to step up to the plate and cancel the service?
http://www.sage.tv/ All of the features of tivo for a one time price. It uses windows so you don't have to spend alot of time tinkering with linux to get it working.
get your parents and grandparents a MythTV box. tell them to call when there is a problem or they dont understand something. add up the money you spent on a MythTV box, setting it up, etc. etc. teaching them how to use it, then gas money, then the money you had to spend buying a TiVo to replace the mythTV box, that your parents and gradnparents actually setup themselves. yes. i am a TiVo and mythTV user, both. the reason why TiVo does well is because of the reason i said above. my grandmother can record her soaps without having to call me or program a VCR. if your a power user, ok, biuld a mthTV box to be cool.
You clearly don't understand copyright holders. If they could, they'd charge you for each time you view their program!
When movies were shown in theaters, you had to buy a ticket anew for each viewing. (I won't tell you how many tickets I bought to the original Star Wars, but George Lucas is a rich man as a result.)
The first pre-recorded movies cost in the $80 range 20 years ago (make that equivalent to $150) now, because of the argument that you could view them until the tape wore out. Finally someone realized that lower markups on greater volumes = higher profits overall. But while the technology was to force a pay-per-view existed in a few thousand theaters, it still wasn't feasible in tens of millions of homes.
Technology marches forward. Napster now rents you music on a monthly subscription. Quit paying and all that music disappears no matter how much you paid them along the way. The content providers see the light at the end of the tunnel of true pay-per-use.
Of course, the next step on that road means you can't be saving recordings you've made for free and having unlimited viewing opportunities for them afterwards. That's the step you are seeing here for the first time in the mass market.
And this is a Big Deal because this is not a simple do-not-record flag. With it's expiration date it has become a vast expansion into limiting how and what you can timeshift. They have already put in place the framework to limit your viewing to a specific time. If you accept this, then how much harder is it to say you are limited to not only the specific short period of time, but also a limited number of viewings during that time? How does it feel to know that a person with a simple Betamax in 1977 had more freedom to timeshift and share recordings than you do with the latest TiVo?
That's why they care, and that's why they hope this one step at a time will keep your outrage at their admittedly harsh measures and denial of Fair Use low enough that eventually they'll get everything they want. And then look at how much you start paying them!
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Well, "wrong" is one word to use. The word I'd use is "liable". I think we'll see a class-action lawsuit soon.
I don't respond to AC's.
All the court struck down was the FCC making adherence to such flags mandatory in consumer electronic equipment. The court ruled that the FCC's mandate from Congress did not give them this authority -- yet!
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
If I lose that, TIVO loses me as a customer and no amount of lifetime memberships
They could probably care less if they lose lifetime members - they already have all the money from them they're ever going to get.
eom
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
A few folks have mentioned MythTV as a TIVO alternative. I actually built a system using Snapstream Beyond TV as a replacement for my TIVO. It is Windows based, supports a wide range of off-the-shelf hardware (you can even have more than 1 tuner for recording multiple programs at once, not that there is ever that much worth recording), and there is no monthly fee to access program data. All in all it works pretty well - it shares alot of the usability of TIVO (they copied well I think). However, that said, I have been unable to convince my wife to stop using TIVO and start using the homebrew. She really loves her TIVO. I have to admit TIVO is slightly easier to use and more friendly for the non-techie. And boy is it reliable (Linux inside) - we are on our third year and the thing just keeps on going and going (well, I did have to replace the hard drive - thank you TIVO hacking sites). Anyhow, sometimes there is more to a product than the simple checkbox specifications.
The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
C'mon people, it's not like it's really difficult to hack a Tivo for file extraction with NO DRM (although an even simpler solution is just to buy a ReplayTV, which is pre-hacked for your convenience).
Yes, I agree, Tivo and the MPAA are trying to screw us, but what the hell--we're smarter than they are! Just hack your box, extract to your heart's content, and laugh at them.
"Just one more good reason to bite the bullet, sit down, and build yourself a MythTV box."
MythTV runs on general purose PC hardware only, and therefore wastes a lot of power. It would be much better if it ran on dedicated hardware.
Vote for Pedro
People buy Tivo- the box is theirs. Where are the people hacking stuff onto it? I've seen plenty of links/books based on hacking into the Tivo, but I can't remember any that involved totally replacing the whole OS. Can it be done? Has it been done?
anyway to use Replay without purchase of a subscription?
Can it be used as a Digital VCR?
"Try reading more closely. This is a bug in the Tivo software, caused by a noisy signal, not actual content protection being used."
I'm going to have to wrap my Tivo in tinfoil, me thinks =P
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
I have been a long time Tivo user and I have generally loved it.
I have been waiting to see what Tivo and Comcast had planned for a HDTV/Digital Cable/PVR box. This just let me know.
I had resisted doing a MythTV box because with HDTV tuners and the capacity I wanted it would be about $600-700 (correct me if I'm wrong) but methinks I will revist the project.
Can anyone suggest a good recipe site for a HDTV OTA MythTV box?
Thanks,
Bod
"I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
No thanks, id prefer to retain control of my legally recorded media.
Once the general public gets wind of this, there will be hell to pay. ( i hope ).
'They' cant keep hiding this stuff from the general consumer for ever... People are more aware then they were 10 years ago.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I think this article brings up an interesting copyright issue. If it's ok to time shift tv shows to watch them when you want, does that also mean you get to archive the show and watch it as many shows as you want? Now that it has been shown that there is a market for DVD copies of tv shows, clearly this material, which should be protected by copyright, has value. Therefore archiving should be illegal since it is a violation of copyright.
Now many people argue that "they beamed it into my home, I should be able to do with it whatever I want." However GPLed code is freely available for download, so therefore, I should be able to ignore the GPL agreement as well, since the arguement is essentially the same. Broadcast tv doesn't exempt copyright. The idea of pushing vs pulling is irrelevent in this case because either way, you've chosen to buy a device to receive the signal/code.
So my point is, although time shifting is copying in a literal sense, it doesn't violate the spirit of copyright, since you watch the show once and then delete it. Archiving does violate copyright because you've made a copy, which you've kept. And I know about the hone recording act, but I think in the digital age it is overly permissive and unconstitutional.
Vote for Pedro
It is fantatic to be a smug ReplayTV user. :)
Now if you will excuse me, I need to get on the web interface and schedule some shows to record.
REPLAYTV SIGNED THE SAME MACROVISION LICENSE AND THEREFORE WILL BE SUBJECT TO THE EXACT SAME RESTRICTIONS.
If anyone is avoiding TiVo because of this, well you sure as hell do not want to get a ReplayTV either. It seems the only option is to buy or build a Myth box.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
in that they could give a damn about Mac users.
we don't exist except to take our money.
I was one who paid the extra $99 for the home networking shit, now it doesn't even work unless I use a hack from a 3rd party.
(and no, they did not volunteer a rebate, nor provide one when asked for it)
as soon as there is something to replace it, it's replaced
involving 4xxx series, 50xx series, and 55xx series under certain controlled conditions, but we won't mention that here on /., will we? :)
This event makes me feel that my idea for a myth box company is more viable. Here's my idea:
Start a company that builds Myth boxes and sells them. If I buy the PC parts in bulk and standardize the hardware I use, then loading myth/linux onto each one would be simple.
I just don't know where to start. Could this sort of business make money?
Thanks,
Starting a Myth box company in MD
Everyone who is upset about their machine no longer doing what they bought it for - should take it back to the shop that you bought it from and demand your money back. Either TiVo refund the shop or the shop will stop stocking TiVo.
Consumers: use the power of your wallets!
"I'm sure the EFF will get onto them for this" But is that enough? Does the EFF's power compare, even in your wildest dreams, with the networks/studios' power?
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
He then offered me half price service for life. I took the offer.
Way to stick it The Man....
My company actually builds htpcs and will even come and install them for you (if you're close enough). We can build them to your specific requirements or for a general purpose. We don't use anything that's proprietary and you're free to do with your media what you wish, including PPV.
/.) you can come to our site and contact us and we'll get you the hook up. I'm completing a massive Home Theater for a client right now. They built the theater, I brought the equipment to fit and configured it. I only WISH I could have a theater like this in my home.
A starting kit is only $800 with starting specs of:
AMD Athlon 2600+
Windows XP Home
Hauppauge PVR150 with Remote and USB-UIRT
SageTV
512 MB of RAM
80 GB SATA HDD
Wireless Keyboard and mouse
Flat panel plasma and LCD TVs, Surround sound, everything is available for the complete Home Theater.
We can also build using MythTV or whatever configuration a user wishes. However support doesn't necessarily come directly from us for everything, it's a great start without too much of a pricetag and no "extra" monthly fees.
So if you're not tech savvy (HAW this is
3%, on a stock priced at approximately $5.10 per share, is statistical noise.
"I use ReplayTV and have never had any problems with content protection. There is even a great open source tool called DVArchive (at sourceforge) that lets one copy shows to/from the ReplayTV units and even stream content directly from the ReplayTV to any machine that supports HTTP streaming."
Suggesting people buy ReplayTV units in order to increase ReplayTV owner numbers by capitalizing on a mistake committed by TiVo is like suggesting people buy Rio branded MP3 players at this point instead of an Apple iPod over something like Ogg support.
ReplayTV is owned by D&M Holdings. D&M Holdings was the owner of Rio until they recently abandoned the MP3 player market, sold off all the IP, and retained the brand name. D&M sold off Rio because they couldn't make a decent profit in the market due to Apple's overwhelming marketshare. Similarly, Replay has been on the market since 1999/2000 and has only a fraction of the installed user base of TiVo. Connect the dots.
Building a MythTV player, a Windows Media Center PC, or an EyeTV unit for Mac owners would be a far more beneficial suggestion as suitable TiVo replacements. To advocate for Replay now is like advocating for Betamax.
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
Wait, how can we get Linux-specific video capture cards (a moderately specialty device), and no designed-for-Linux video cards? What the crap is this?
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Ok, I have MythTV and a DVDR-DL. My drive is about 50% full of kid shows I want on hand and wouldn't let expire. Amazon either doesn't sell them or wants something like $20 per hour.
I would like to just select several shows and hit click 'Burn DVD'. I don't care if it creates simple B&W text-only menus, but picking a frame as a snapshot would be a cool bonus.
There is a description of how to do it by hand, but it isn't in my interest to go through the effort. Is anyone planning on scripting this up and making a plugin for it?
TiVo has not deigned to offer service. So those of us who moved here with TiVo boxes have had to go to extraordinary lengths to make them work.
:-)
After that effort, though - basically running a TiVo server on a home machine - we're free not only of the monthly payments, but also annoying stuff like this that TiVo adds now and then.
Still, if I were in the US, I'd rather pay than deal with the periodic configuration hassles. Similar to MythTV, I imagine. But at least we get the nice TiVo interface.
Link to your source please?
I doubt this will be added to old replay's in any case, since they haven't even reomoved the automatic commerical skip or sharing shows over the net feature from the 54xx series that got the original owner (SonicBlue) sued into bankruptcy.
YMMV on the new 55xx models, but it's still possible to get the 54xx's on ebay and such. Moreover, it's possible to cut replay's mothership out of the loop entirely, so there's always a solution, though I prefer to pay my ($10) monthly fee because it's worth it and right.
everything in moderation
All these Tivo things make me never want to get one. Once DirectTV cuts out support for my UltimateTV units (which were once made by the evil Microsoft, and I pay $10 a month to use, but I have one on 3 different TVs and the 3 units cost me $75 total), I highly doubt I'll accept any kind of upgrade deal to get DTV Tivo unit.
A significant proportion of Tivo users employ Tivo as not just a time-shifter/instant replay box, but as a sort of digital video jukebox. They leave shows present and watch them again and again. Some users up the capacity to 1000+ hours for just this reason. I use the Tivo in this way myself for certain shows. If stuff starts vanishing, so will my Tivo, and I'll switch to MythTV or an equivalent.
Here's the now playing list. (yes yes, I know, Oprah and Dharma, what can I say, it's a shared TiVo.)
Here's the program info.
Here's the keep until screen.
Here's the show details screen.
Oh yeah, Bah! Bah, I say!
HD Trailers
My lifetime-subscription ReplayTV 5040 links into my LAN and automagically pulls down schedule updates just fine via cablemodem, while a betamax VCR isn't even capable of playing current tapes.
:-)
If you're suggesting that a ReplayTV is somehow obsolete, perhaps you should take a closer look at one. Even though it only has a single tuner and doesn't do hi def video, it does what I want it to do extremely well. I put it on the Vid2 port, anyway, so I use my TV's own dual tuners if I want live PIP!
Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
I think it's idiotic that I need to pay 13 bucks a month just so it can know when a TV show is on.
Speak for yourself. I pay $5/month for my DirectTivo, and I'd happily pay 5 times that to keep my Tivo. Think of it as a "TV Guide" subscription in electronic format.
Now if this stupid DRM does go into effect on my beloved Tivo, I'm going shopping - and the Tivo's going on eBay.
Well, Tim Miller has a plan to do so. People are excited. It's even been covered on Slashdot, after he was interviewed by Kerneltrap.
My question is---what are the obstacles in the way of an open source-friendly video card that were not in the way of an open source-friendly capture card? Why do we have one and not the other, when clearly more people have video cards than TV tuners? (Probably even not counting onboard video.)
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
For instance, consider a news segment in which a talking head reports that a serious storm is approaching New Orleans. It is entirely legal to pass along the content: a serious storm is approaching New Orleans. The bits that are a specific expression of that content may indeed by copyrighted or otherwise protected. The content is not.
No there is not. If you drop your monthly payments your DVR turns into a brick.
I was a long-time DirecTV subscriber, and when the Series2 DirecTivo (HDR2) came out i bought one immediately.
We loved Tivo and I had always liked DirecTV.
But a little over a year ago we cancelled our service, and put the HDR2 back in its box. (I have an odd habit of saving the original packaging for "expensive" electronics)
You see, as much as I liked the Tivo, i found that there really wasn't all that much on that I wanted to watch, and the more stuff it stored, the more i felt obligated to spend time watching TV. Then there was the issue of my wife and I having totally incompatible program preferences, but only one Tivo. DirecTV has been pretty good about NOT including any of the cool Tivo features (no home network, etc).
After living without TV for a while, when i visit someone with a TV on, i like watcing for a few minutes and then the commercial breaks come, and i ask myself "how the f@#$ does anyone put up with this? I feel myself getting dumber with each passing second..."
The other thing i dislike is the airing schedules/habits of the various channels. On the rare chance that i find something i like (like, Samauri Champloo or whatever), i dont want to wait multiple days to see if Tivo has recorded a new episode. If the story is good, i want to watch all the episodes back to back, to see how the story turns out. Theres no reason to wait a week to see "the new episode" - i want it all at once (and without commercials, and without stupid Americanizations, i.e. what happens to the BBC Top Gear episodes that make it stateside - cut down, and a year or more delayed from British Airing..)
The answer, of course, is Bittorrent. If i get interested in a program, I'll just download the _entire season_, usually in its native language (if its Anime, it's been subbed for me by the time i download it). I get the original versions of the content, i get no commercials, i get instant gratification, and i can watch it on my computer - or any computer i own.
I'm actually thinking of building an HTPC with no tuner/capture card.. just to play DVDs and BT downloads on in my theater room, instead of on my main workstation.
My wife has also adjusted well to no TV. She gets a lot more done at home and when there's a show she discovers that she likes, she gets the entire season of it on DVD.. either by getting it from the library (free!), borrowing it from a friend, or just buying the set for $20-$50 for a season. If you figure there are 3 or fewer series of show you like in a given year, you can buy them outright with no commercials for less than a year of _any_ TV service will cost you. And you get the material on your own terms, with no hassles.
TV content is simply not good enough to accept it on terms you don't set yourself. If i have to put up with inconvenient terms, i just wont watch. That's why i got rid of DirecTV. That's why i see almost no movies, and its why i am looking to go to a software-only DVD player that lets me fastforward/skip anything i damn well please.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
It's true! How obnoxious. Here's the link.
Can I get a mythtv box for $70?
[an error occurred while processing this directive]
Which is exactly why I don't want to buy a ReplayTV or TiVo box. I don't have cable. I get a grand total of five TV stations. I'm perfectly happy programming the DVR myself, just the way I now program my VCR. I just don't want to have to mess with tapes anymore.
I've been investigating non-subscription PVRs/DVRs, but I've yet to find any kind of useful comparison of features and such, and my knowledge is not yet up to the level where I can do any effective Googling.
Dont believe me? check it for yourself.
Seems like a Tivo thing waiting to happen!!
assert(expired(knowldege)); core dump
Seriously, I'd buy one.
My only useful suggestion to you would be to partner with WisChip to use their go7007 based capture device. Unlike Hauppage, WisChip have released and support an open source GPL'd Linux driver for their hardware. I use a Plextor M402U USB in my Myth box and aside from the inconvenience of an external capture device, it works extremely well.
to build your own DVR if you have the resources and access to the 'net.
If it'll annoy them to be flooded with calls regarding this, it'll annoy them twice as much if they're flooded with calls when they've said they don't want to be called.
Harrass them into submission.
I support the Center for Consumer Freedom
I've taken another fstab at it
Bad slashdotter! No dupes for you!
For the love of God, please learn to spell "ridiculous"!!!
the idiot box.
Baaaaa.
"What is this crap? Fox broadcasting down eight"
How long until that red flag is accompanied by a nice big shiny "$" that will allow you to pay a TDB amount to let you keep the program a little longer?
I'm not a copyright lawyer, but doesn't it allow you to keep something you bought, in this case in the form of TiVo hardware and subscription? This has to be a violation of fair-use consumer rights, right, those don't exist anymore. This is like going to a kid Potter fan and saying Rowling called, she wants her book back or to one of those people you saw waiting in line for Star Wars III and saying Lucas called, he wants his toy light saber back and you're not getting a refund. Copyright law says once you own something you can keep it for as long as you want, give it away or resell it or even burn shoot or blow it up, anything other than making and selling copies for profit and showing it at a public performance. There may be some clause in the TiVo EULA that might allow this "upgrade".
This sounds too much like the Broadcast Flag and as last I checked it was thrown out by the courts.
F7 doesn't work, ignore spelling and grammar
G-d willing it isn't. I was this close to buying a ReplayTV and after reading this I put in another call to pre-sale support. Funny story about that later. But I asked for, in writing, a promise that they won't pull a TiVo on me. If they give me what I ask for I'm buying a Replay, if not, maybe a MythTV is in my future.
I think Replay has one of the smallest call centers in the Info-Tech world. I called half a dozen times yesterday and 5 of them got the same woman. By the end of the day we were on a first name basis. My last call of the day, saddly, didn't get routed to her. I really freaked the guy who got my call out by asking him to say hi to my other CSR.
Pax,
~J.C.
but then won't replaytv still work without calling home? sure you won't get the scheduling features but it will still provide basic recording.
as i hear it, series 2 and above tivos won't work at all without an updated schedule.
anyway.
the best solution as always, is never to buy (you can rent if you think it's worth it) any DRM products. you don't own it but are paying for it.
and maybe get congress to represent us citizens and not allow companies to SELL you products which you cannot fully own. it already is illegal in common sense and old fashioned PROPERTY laws before the lobbyists and their money-hungry congress handlers came to town.
Science : Proprietary , Knowledge : Open Source
These things happen. I myself tried setting up a MythTV box myself within the last month or so from KnoppMyth; sometimes the transcoding monitoring daemon or one of the transcoding jobs would die.
Fine, the software's still under development. However, no log was written indicating where in the transcoding process it failed. Heck, it couldn't even tell which show it was on when either the rip or transcoding process failed (I was converting a DVD) to automatically feed forward to the next run after a reboot/restart.
This lack of failure recovery in a core feature leads me to suspect the quality/testing of the product, and hence that MythTV won't be ready for primetime for a while. Of course, I could have known that from the '.18' version number :-)
This is not completely on topic, but it fits better in this thread than in many others.
I'm looking for some software (preferably simple command line utilities) that can download media streams such as RealVideo and Windows Media Video.
This is because many of the TV shows I like to watch are archived online, but I would like to have a local copy for watching on the road, and as a backup for when the show or archive disappears from the site.
I would like to know the alternatives that are available. Searching on Google did not yield many results; mostly a few Xine hacks. Since there is so much software that can play these streams, I'm surprised at how difficult it is to find software that can download them.
I can play at least the RealVideo streams (haven't tried WMV yet), so a tool that can capture the output from the player would also get the job done. It even has the advantage of being more generically applicable. Still, I prefer just downloading the original streams.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
...but it certainly isn't there today.
Also, unlike video tape recorders or operating systems, there isn't a strong drive for consumers to "standardize" on a single player in the market, so it's quite possible that alternatives like ReplayTV will never go away.
I think your analogy is somewhat misplaced.
Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
Only problem is in the license agreement you sign or agree to in order to use the product clear states that the terms can be changed on you. It is kind of like a cell contract. They can change the agreement at anytime. Your only recourse is to agree or stop using the device and go to another product. The free market would in this case develop an alternative product free of DRM. The only problem there is the content providers might not license their content which they have the right to do.
the guys at systm recently did a video podcast (search in iTMS) (also available from their site) on setting up a mythBox.
plain and easy to understand, yet not dumbed-down, this video quickly and easily walks you through setting up a myth box, with plenty of other relevant information such as minimum reqs as well as recommended hardware (especially for recording hdtv content), and everything else you could think of.
I have a series 1 with the LAN card. I never have to use the land line.
Don't tell me that because there was some fine print in some d@mn license agreement that you've already agreed to this ahead of time. I sincerely doubt that the TiVo license agreement clearly states: We absoutely will reduce the functionality of your purchased and owned equipment in the near future without your consent to appease the broadcasting and content creation industries.
Uh, yes they do. From he TiVo Service and the Privacy Policy, par. 6:
"Changes to Your TiVo Service:
TiVo may at its discretion and from time to time change, add, or remove features and functionality of the TiVo service or the TiVo DVR without notice. If you are dissatisfied with any such changes to the TiVo service, you may immediately cancel your use of the TiVo service as provided in Section 14 ("Termination of Service"). TiVo reserves the right to discontinue one, some, or all of the features of the TiVo service you receive at any time at its discretion. TiVo may at its discretion discontinue the provision of software updates to certain TiVo DVRs. This means that while other TiVo DVRs may receive continued software updates and functionality; TiVo is not required to provide such updates to your TiVo DVR. Additionally, the level of service TiVo provides may not be the same on each TiVo DVR; a given TiVo DVR may support different features and functionality, and TiVo is under no obligation to provide all features and functionality to your TiVo DVR."
Software either tries to serve the needs and desires of its users, or it tries to serve the needs and desires of someone else. As no user has asked for this "feature", it's not hard to figure out where Tivo's loyalties lie.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
You are right. But if the business of that geeky person gets big enough, he'll be stomped on by the content industries through whatever means they can. He'll be forced to insert in the same DRM or be basically forced out of existence.
Then my mom has either a crippled or unsupported PVR. The second is preferable, I think.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
.. but the MPAA, Macrovision and others would REALLY like you to forget....
HEY LOOK! A PONY!!
I mod everyone down who says "I'll get modded down for this." I hate to disappoint.
Disclaimer: I'm not an RF engineer, and outside of maybe 1k of Perl code I'm not a programmer either (and many wags would have you believe Perl isn't programming, but I digress).
I can only assume that detection of the copy protect flag involves some software routine that has to do some kind of error checking to be sure that the flag is actually present.
Why can't that routine assume the flag *isn't* present unless there is really good detection of it? Why assume that "maybe" cases DO have the flag?
Actually, this wouldn't help the "free market" much either. It sounds an awful lot like an "illusory contract" or "illusory promise" under the common law.
Basically that's when party A agrees to do something and party B agrees to do something in return, but with conditions which, when examined, amount to fake promises.
"A agrees to mow B's lawn and B agrees to give A $10 if he can." etc.
Putting aside whether this law would actually apply to the TIVO situation, it's clear that the underlying principles apply. In a transaction where you pay for something/take on an obligation into the future, but the product you buy/terms of service can be changed at any time, you are basically unaware of what you're buying.
This is why your "free market" statement rings so true. :)
was thinking about one. now I'm not.
So if when buying a subsidized plan you do not really "own" the phone, then why is it you do not send them the phone at the end of the contract?
The answer is that infact you are buying the phone by installment plan, which happens to include service.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Yes you can.
.TSP files (which are just the file-based MPEG2-TS mentioned earlier) on FAT or ext2 partitions.
Simply hook the firewire up to your PC. Run any application that can capture MPEG2-TS (like dvgrab on linux, or windows video editing apps, or quicktime on macosx).
You use MythTV to control an IR device or serial input to the cable box to remotely change the channel at the appropriate time. Note that the MPEG2-TS that the firewire gives you contains no program information...
Also I'm noting the MythTV 0.18.1 changes includes the following: "Internal channel-change over firewire support for DCT-6200 series cable boxes - no external program required like before."
So it seems MythTV has the infrastructure already set up.
If your cable box has the firewire features of the firmware disabled, it may still support external firewire HD attachment. If this is the case, you can record to the HD with the cable DVR features, then load it up on your PC. You should see
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
1. Find a show you're interested in
2. Set your VCR to record that given timeslot
What if you're trying to follow a show whose network keeps moving it into a different timeslot every few weeks or so? If you've ever watched any of several science fiction series whose name starts with F, you know what I mean. Can your VCR follow that? Replay and TiVo can. Or what if basketball delays or pre-empts a show?
Now take the fact I can buy a VCR for $40 or so and I'm not paying monthly fees.
Can your VCR control an external digital cable or satellite decoder box? Once NTSC broadcasts cease sometime within the next few years, your VCR's built-in analog cable decoder won't be able to pick up local networks anymore. Or do newer VCRs have a built-in digital cable decoder compatible with the CableCARD spec?
It's almost ludicrous how much better ReplayTV is than TiVo
But if it's no longer manufactured, it doesn't matter how good it was, past tense, because you can't buy it anymore. A poorly promoted brand is more likely to become no longer manufactured than a well promoted brand.
Has your section 6 ever not said that?
(I would've modded you troll myself [I have mod points], but I didn't want you wondering why and my moderation potentially metamoderated down.)
Copyrights, Patents, Trademarks: temporary loans from the Public Domain, not real property ("intellectual" or otherwise)
This is just like harrassing a meter maid. In that case, you should send your complaints to the legislature (the people who decide what the law will be) or city planners (the ones who decided against free parking).
Copyrights, Patents, Trademarks: temporary loans from the Public Domain, not real property ("intellectual" or otherwise)
I saw this coming2 85033
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=135231&cid=11
TiVo as a last ditch effort have cast their lot with the content makers. WHAT HAPPENED TO TIME SHIFTING. This whole 7 day limit defeats the purpose. I still have a TiVO Series 1 with shows I recorded back in 2001 on it. People are buying the TiVo outright, why are they acting as if you are renting it. If a PVR in you cable box did this that would be understandable but not this.
There is now going to be network and movie people telling TiVo what you can and can't record, even the non-pay-per-view stuff. Their revenue is from the customers and maybe some of the adds I hear they add, but mostly the customers.
The company seems to forget that the consumer has the right to time shift shows. They seem to be of the opinion that if they pander to the content makers enough there will be some kind of windfall for them. I cannot see what TiVo is getting for screwing the customers. The company does not require the permission of the content makers to allow the customer the function in the product they bought to record their show or movie. Does your VCR ask permission before it records a show, why should a digital VCR.
Soon you won't be able to record LIVE events or season premieres.
The market is wide open now for a company that would make a PVR that can get its channel guide from free sources on the internet that is not crippled about which shows can be recorded, is there a company brave enough.
An HD TiVo is no longer relevant if the TiVo is more crippled than a paraplegic.
Euphemism, what is that a euphemism for something.
You could get rid of your TV altogether!
For all the Tivo users, stop whining about this. Tivo has been adding more and more restrictions for years and years now. You can't be a /. reader and claim you didn't see it comming.
I'll admit, I'm happy about this announcement. Maybe people will stop burying their head in the sand when confronted with devices that you BUY, but you don't really OWN. It also makes me all the more happy that I ignored the Tivo zealots and spent about $500 and a week's worth of time putting together a Linux DVR about 4 years ago now. Instead of losing features and being more restricted, it is GAINING features and flexibility as time passes and I upgrade software, add new hardware, etc. It's still fast enough box to become an HDTV DVR when content becomes available. I shouldn't even need any new hardware, except a 'free' cable/satellite reciever (FCC requires firewire ports on them!).
If you'll humor me as I have an 'rms' moment, here, I'd like to put all the converts to OS X on notice. Besides Tivo, I've been mentioning Apple for quite some time now. You can be quite sure that once OS X gets a decent-sized foothold, they will adopt similarly restrictive tactics. You saw the beginnings of this when they excluded all DVD-Recorders (except their own overpriced and under-featured "Superdrive") from being used with their mastering/recording software. The only big difference between Microsoft and Apple is that the former is big and rich enough that they are already enacting their lock-in and other shady techniques, while the latter is still small enough that they need to hid their plans and aspirations for future lock-in, stronger DRM, forced upgrades, higher fees, etc. So don't act surprised when Apple does this to you, either!
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
I'd love to run a Myth box but... How would it replace my DTIVO? I can watch one and record two or watch\record one while recording another. OTA bites in my area and cable isn't somethnig I want to deal with. So, how would Myth handle what I'm doing short of a ton of receivers and ugly IRDA dongles to control them?
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
Link to your source please?
Did you follow the Slashdot story link and read the replies there? There are several replies mentioning that Replay actually signed on to these terms before TiVo did, and I also came across it in other stories during further reading. I don't recall where it was, but someone at TiVo was quoted that this misfeature would not put TiVo at a "competitive disadvantage" becuase it would be "standard industry practice".
I have no idea what, if any, remote software modification mechanisms there are in the old Replay units, but the Macrovision contract certainly would have required the maximum deployment and compliance possible. It will certainly apply to any new Replay units, at least as of a year ago.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Yeah. Dead and/or unfounded FUD. I'm afraid you're wrong. This is already in TiVo. My replays are still unaffected (54xx and 55xx.) And, given that one can simulate a replayTV "mother-ship" (though I'm not -- yet, but I do have my current firmware backed up just in case) it will never happen to a moderately-savvy replayTV owner.
Sorry about that TiVO choice you made. Better luck next time.
everything in moderation
Sorry about that TiVO choice you made.
Uhhhh... I'm sorry about that anal-sex-with-little-boys choice you made?
Hmmm... were did I get the idea that you have anal sex with little boys? I dunno. Must have been the same random cosmic rays that gave you the odd notion that I had a TiVo.
My replays are still unaffected (54xx and 55xx.)
I don't know the Replay models and dates, but as I explicitly said old units may not be affected and I don't know what (if any) remote update features they contain. Old units may or may not contain it, but all new units certainly will certainly need to.
It is also very possible for you to have a unit with this these misfeatures and not even know it. It doesn't get triggered and you wouldn't have seen it unless you actually record something that has been flagged. The flag is not being used much yet.
Oh, and here's Macrovision press release on Replay contracting Macrovisions DRM systems. TiVo and Replay are including these systems because the Macrovison and DVD licenses require it.
Why would TiVo screw over their product in this way if they weren't arm-twisted into doing so? And what makes you think Replay would somehow not face the same issues?
A good step in avoiding this crap would be not to include integrated CSS DVD playing in the system. Then they can say 'screw you' to the CSS license which allows them to say 'screw you' to the Macrovision license which allows them to say 'screw you' to this DRM crap. You can get a separate DVD player for like $30.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Crunchy frog?
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick