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WTF? The very next requirement after your quote says "3. Proficiency in at least one higher-level language. [CS] ."

Generally, that ends up being something like Java. I am more interested in people who know lower level languages, like C/C++ and ssembly. So are most employers in Silicon Valley.

The bad news is that there's only a handful of places that have these programs, such as Brown, Rice, Stanford, MIT, CMU, and so on.[ ... ]

Bullshit. While there are some expensive good CS undergrad programs, there are also good (relatively) cheap ones at public state universities such as University of California - Berkeley, University of Illinois - Urbana-Champaign, Georgia Institute of Technology, University of Michigan - Ann Arbor and University of Texas - Austin (and those are just schools in the top 10 -- ranked above the Brown and Rice you mentioned!).

I would include all of those, except UTA, in the "and so on".

UCB is primarily responsible for BSD UNIX. IT's CS department is also not strictly a CS department, it's an EECS department.

UIUC Has CS 241 and 242, among others; it counts a a place that teaches the C language specifically. CS 423 covers Linux kernel programming, which is in C. Note that these classes aren't specifically required for a CS degree, unless you pick the appropriate emphasis, so it's still possible to graduate from here as unhirable.

Georgia Tech has 8 tracks. Pretty much the only hirable ones are the "Devices" and "Systems & Architecture" track. If you too CS4210 and CS4220 as electives on the "Theory" track, you might also do OK. I typically don't mention it because of the low percentage of people who opt for these tracks, compared to the other tracks at this school, so you have to be picky.

UMich I am a great fan of. It was their LDAP implementation and my patches which started OpenLDAP, and they've kept up the tradition. They are also not a traditional CS only program, they are an EECS program, which gives them an advantage. However, they have 7 programs, and it's possible to escape through 2 of them without actually learning to code usefully.

It looks like I should add UTA to the list; CS105 appears to be C++ - an actual, honest to god, language class. Again, it's a degree program elective, but it's heartening to see there, given that ABET wouldn't require it for accreditation.

Thanks for pointing me at UTA. I'll give those resumes a bit more weight, depending on degree track.

Sadly, You can no longer take a C++ class at most universities in the United States. You can take a "Databases using C++", and be expected to learn C++ on your own, but of course, that's much more likely to be "Databases using Java" these days.

If you're trying to learn pointers and memory management in a databases class, you're doing it wrong. An operating systems class is the right place to cover that topic.

Currently, ABET accreditation is "Outcome Based", a criterion which has been abandoned as hopelessly flawed in primary education for both math and reading:

General Criterion 3. Student Outcomes" ...

No where does it require proficiency in a programming language or other language, and in fact, it goes so far as to limit the requirement to reading about them - "exposure" - in section II:

Program Criteria for Computer Science and Simililarly Named Computing Programs ...
Student Outcomes ...
Curriculum

Students must have the following amounts of course work or equivalent educational experience:

a. Computer science: One and one-third years that must include: ...
2. An exposure to a variety of programming languages and systems. [CS]

WTF? The very next requirement after your quote says "3. Proficiency in at least one higher-level language. [CS] ."

The bad news is that there's only a handful of places that have these programs, such as Brown, Rice, Stanford, MIT, CMU, and so on.

The good news is that if you attend one of these handful of universities, AND you opt into the degree program that actually forces you to learn to use the tools, and use a computer as a tool, in more than a theoretical, abstract way, AND you do well, you are practically guaranteed a job at a top tier company, like Google, Facebook, Apple, etc.. The bad news is that these places tend to be a heck of a lot more expensive than a community college.

Bullshit. While there are some expensive good CS undergrad programs, there are also good (relatively) cheap ones at public state universities such as University of California - Berkeley, University of Illinois - Urbana-Champaign, Georgia Institute of Technology, University of Michigan - Ann Arbor and University of Texas - Austin (and those are just schools in the top 10 -- ranked above the Brown and Rice you mentioned!).

> Steve Jobs didn't make it to first class university - there wasn't enough $$$ anyway. His 'university' is Reed College in Portland, Oregon

I think if you want to humbleize Steve Jobs' background you can make your case without offending people who think Reed College is a great school. It ranks 77th among liberal arts colleges

http://colleges.usnews.ranking...

I didn't go to Reed nor do I know anyone who did. However everyone I know from Portland has high respect for the school.

Yes. It's getting huge tax breaks here. It got a nearly free auto plant from California.

It gets $7500/car in subsidy from the feds. Many states give $1500 to $5000 on top of that. Some countries they sell into give tens of thousands equivalent.

The feds don't give that $7500 subsidy because the brand of the car is 'Tesla'. They give it because it's an electric car. There's over a dozen models from BMW, Fiat, Ford, General Motors, Nissan and others that get the same subsidy. So spinning this subsidy as "the feds are helping Tesla" is a lie. Same thing for the state subsidies.

If they charged $90K for a car which is luxury equivalent to a Hyundai Sonata I would. It's a nice car, but it doesn't measure up to other $90K cars on luxury.

The Tesla Model S is a full-size luxury liftback which ranks second against other "Super Luxury" cars and has a 0-60 acceleration of 4.2 to 5.9 seconds (depending on model). The Hyundai Sonata is nowhere close to being in the same class seeing as it's a mid-size car and not as sporty with a 0-60 acceleration of 6.5 to 8.5 seconds. So again you're ill-informed or disingenuous.

By Sturgeon's Law, most colleges that offer CS degrees are diploma mills. That isn't to say they're all scams, and you could certainly learn how to program well despite your shitty education, because after all, you really learn how to program on your own in any case, but simply because they teach things like Java and SQL, instead of things like actual fucking CS, you're not going to learn how to solve interesting software problems. You're going to learn how to be cogs in a corporate hierarchy and do what the people who inspired Dilbert ask you to do, valuing keywords on your resume instead of demonstrable achievements.

But if you got a CS degree from one of the schools near the front of this list, it's a pretty good bet you're not a retard, and if even if you're not yet a great programmer, at least you're not one of morons who can't pass fizzbuzz, and we can assume you'll learn on the job and have the theoretical background to keep up.

"Oh, but I'm such a great programmer and I learned all that theory stuff on my own and you can't judge me!"

Who said I was? You're the one framing it like that. Every good programmer is an autodidactic dilettante in many things. You have to be, because every job requires you inhale a bunch of domain knowledge about the real-world problem you're solving in addition to the technology you're using. You're not special.

But the people who spent four, or five, or ten years surrounded by the some of the smartest people their age doing nothing but having fun and (mostly) learning what interests them is going to be a lot more well rounded than the kid who went chasing dollars right after high school. All else being equal, the kid who went to a good school is better at this than the kid who didn't.

I agree with the sentiment about programming skill, but I think Toyota, not Honda, had the more significant unintended acceleration issues (according to CBS News and NHTSA, as many as 89 deaths).

Of-course I completely forgot to mention all of the service prices that are rising, from accounting, to lawyers, to court fees, to mailing, to education, to car repair, etc.

Did I forget to mention coffee and coffee shops?

Obviously water

They will talk about drought and bandits and weather and climate and every single excuse under the Sun except for the actual real cause of this nonsense: inflation.

Yes, brag about that Harvard CS degree. lol.

I don't know what this $9K stuff is. There are plenty of places not nearly that expensive where you don't pay for a brand name -- or pay a private institution (with premium so it can also be profitable for the owners), including:

Georgia Tech, $4129 for in-state residents. UWYO, $108 per credit hour, undergrad. ULL, undergrad tuition $3147 per semester for 20 or more credit hours. Graduate tuition $3574 maximum.

Elizabeth City State University, NC $4,428 in-state tuition.

Sul Ross State University (Texas) $4800

Northwestern (Oklahoma) $5K

n.b. Leaf Owner.

Agreed. The leaf is just too range challenged. (Claims 100miles, owners say half of that)

Leaf owners aren't claiming 50 mile ranges, at least not in bulk.

I do blended highway/city driving in a huge sprawl city, and I get about 86. [That's 3.9 miles per kWh, which jives with what a lot of people will tell you.] Even under the worst possible conditions (all freeway) I get the 70 miles necessary to go to my office and back.

Add to that, the leaf has little in the way of creature comforts or high tech gadgetry.

What creature comforts do you think the leaf is missing?

It matches most other lines of car at similar prices in terms of features. The mid-level version (which is less than 3k ask over the base) has a nice XM stereo with on-steering-wheel controls, navigation, heated seats, heated mirrors, etc. It's nothing "fancy," but it's certainly not missing hightech gadgetry. The base model is only missing built-in navigation and has cheaper wheels.
http://www.nissanusa.com/elect...

Its safety rating is Good, (code word for mediocre)

Perhaps. "Good" at IIHS is their top rating. It's only 4 out of at Safecar.gov USnews gave it a 9, which is in the middle of other Hybrid/Electric cars.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratin...
http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicl...
http://usnews.rankingsandrevie...

Its a pretty bare bones car, sold at a loss.

As mentioned, it is not any more bare than any other car in this price range.

Its performance is abysmal

You haven't driven one, or you're only interested in high-speed driving. Yes, the Leaf tops out at 93mph (that's a 10,000rpm artificial limit on the motor), but it's VERY VERY quick in city situations, and certainly doesn't suffer getting on the freeway either. You've got full torque from a stop. You never worry about merging or having to beat someone out to change lanes. It's not a giant beast, but it's by not means a car with "abysmal performance."

Can anybody give me a reason not to have stability control where that reasons does not contain “fun” or “because”? (which might be sufficient – just looking for any other reasons.)

'Cause, uh, it's a sports car designed for racing?

Mid-engined cars are designed solely to get around corners fast, and they're extremely unstable compared to your average Ford or Honda. The problem is that many are bought by people who have no clue, and end up in a ditch the first time they take their foot off the gas in a corner.

I have had several mid-engine sports cars, both with and without stability control, and you're wrong, mid-engine is the most stable engine configuration a vehicle can have, otherwise why would F1 cars all be mid-engine?

Mid-engine is so stable that the mid-engine Porsche Cayman is commonly known to be the best handling vehicle money can buy:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/the-mid-vs-rear-engine-debate-porsche-cayman-r-vs-911-gt3-feature
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-porsche-cayman-cayman-s-first-drive-review
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/the-best-handling-car-in-america-for-less-than-100k-feature
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Porsche_Cayman/Performance/
http://jalopnik.com/is-the-new-porsche-cayman-still-the-worlds-best-sports-333874537
http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/porsche/cayman-coupe/summary/26174-4

http://www.examiner.com/article/porsche-cayman-world-s-best-sports-car


For a good example of why mid-engine is better imagine a shopping cart with a 30 pack of beer in it and pushing the cart from the back. Front engine is equivalent to putting the beer in the very front of the cart and mid-engine is equivalent to putting the beer at the back of the cart. Try both and tell me which is easier to push around a corner.

So what do I think happened? Fluke 1-in-a-million accident that couldn't be repeated if you tried.

I'm in my 50's, I serviced and repaired all my own cars up until the 90's, I currently have a 10yo Mazda 6 with 170,000km on the clock. I've had it for 7yrs and the only problems I've had was a dead battery. Modern cars are incredibly reliable, safe, and economical compared to the cars I grew up with. Having said that, you make a valid point, modern cars are more or less unserviceable by the average owner.

Yup. I've got an eleven year old Subaru with 230,000km on the odometer, and aside from tires and oil changes, I've had one brake job awhile back and a head gasket replaced. Grand total about 1,900 bucks of maintenance over the last eleven years (including tires; I get free oil changes).

It's very difficult for me to justify a new car, although with the increase in fuel efficiency it is getting to be tempting. Supposedly the Mazda 6 diesel hits North America next year. Now if Subaru would get up off its ass and do the same I'd be happy.

University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign is #41

You are too old to go to law school. You will be working for someone who is younger than you... Focus on doing your job; it's what you have.

I'm very glad I've never listened to people like you, you sound old and bitter.

No where yet in this conversation have I seen anything about the people failing. According to this website, nearly a third don't make it through to the second year. This leaves them with the debt, but none of the benefit.

In my own experience, many of the people I saw dropping out of tertiary education (in NZ) did so because of external pressures. Everything looked OK on paper and they were encouraged by society and the state to enroll but it only took a little change for things to go wrong. Arguing with your parent and having to leave home, a break up in a relationship and the depression afterwards, pregnancy, abusive families and relationships, losing a part time job, mental health problems (especially in the medical sector, where having a mental health problem can prevent you from ever working in the sector), drug addiction, travel problems ,accidents, crime, racism, sexism, or an argument with a teacher. Some of these people make it a long way through, or try again when they have failed once only to fail again. Then they have the debt, none of the benefits, and usually large dose of depression from failing.

Since it fell behind Clown College in the US News ranking, it really is an embarrassment.

(assuming it really is a great school, which I have serious doubts)

For what it's worth, Cornell is currently ranked something like fifth in the US(*) in terms of their computer science department, and the Technion is hardly a degree mill either. I don't know what their hybrid programs are going to be like, but at least the source departments seem solid. Admittedly, rankings are largely bullshit and the student guarantees far more of outcome than the institution, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that the "Stanford/MIT/CMU/UCB/Cornell" group is good-to-great.

(*) source: http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/computer-science-rankings

Since all the evidences I posted won't FIT into a single /. post I originally did here:

http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3266485&cid=42066039

Here are the rest:

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TOP 50/200++ RANKED SOUTHERN REGIONAL UNIVERSITIES USING Windows (from -> http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-colleges-north )

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The Citadel: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.citadel.edu

Mercer University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=mercer.edu

Marymount University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.marymount.edu

University of North Carolina - Wilmington: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=uncw.edu

Elon University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.elon.edu

Samford University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.samford.edu

Belmont University: Runs their domain on Windows (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.belmont.edu

Bellarmine University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.bellarmine.edu

Union University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.uu.edu

Converse College: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.converse.edu

Spring Hill College: Runs their domain on Windows (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.shc.edu

Lipscomb University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.lipscomb.edu

Harding University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.harding.edu

Queens University of Charlotte: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.queens.edu

Winthrop University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.winthrop.edu

University of Tampa: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ut.edu

Murray State University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.murraystate.edu

Christopher Newport University: Runs their domain on Windows (mix) -> http://up

I know that this is going to be an unpopular statement, and I'm sure to be moderated into oblivion for saying this, but Slashdot doesn't need a bunch of advertisements for a free micky-mouse level class from a University that is pandering for some free publicity. Those of us with experience that have been in this business long enough know what it means when someone says, "Stop. Just stop."

If you want to look at advertisements in disguise for micky-mouse schools, and cheap DIY-hacks, there are sites and social networks for that, but it is unwelcome here, and we aren't prepared to lurk back into the corners of the Internet on IRC.

This is a place where a lot of professionals reside, and we are better than being lured into junk, overpriced four-year under graduate programs that leave the participants both unemployed and in-debt. It is the duty of the users of this site to mark this garbage move as what it is, a sham.

So, I was going to mod this down, as you suggested, but I couldn't resist commenting instead...

I'm not sure what you mean by "micky-mouse" (sic) and I have no idea how Stanford falls into that category. Stanford is currently rated as the #6 university in the US, is widely considered one of the best STEM schools in the country, and the two professors who are leading this particular class have pretty intense resumes. Sure, tuition at the school is a little pricey, but that doesn't affect the value of free courses like this.

There is a lot of interest in the broader "open education" topic on Slashdot, and this looks like a pretty cool course. Most IT and engineering professionals that I have come across in my career could use a course like this, as their understanding of foundational network concepts is pretty anemic.

TOP 50/200++ RANKED SOUTHERN REGIONAL UNIVERSITIES USING Windows (from -> http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-colleges-north )

---

The Citadel: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.citadel.edu

Mercer University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=mercer.edu

Marymount University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.marymount.edu

University of North Carolina - Wilmington: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=uncw.edu

Elon University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.elon.edu

Samford University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.samford.edu

Belmont University: Runs their domain on Windows (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.belmont.edu

Bellarmine University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.bellarmine.edu

Union University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.uu.edu

Converse College: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.converse.edu

Spring Hill College: Runs their domain on Windows (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.shc.edu

Lipscomb University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.lipscomb.edu

Harding University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.harding.edu

Queens University of Charlotte: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.queens.edu

Winthrop University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.winthrop.edu

University of Tampa: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ut.edu

Murray State University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.murraystate.edu

Christopher Newport University: Runs their domain on Windows (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.cnu.edu

Shenandoah University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.su.edu

Campbell University: Runs their domain on Windo

Continued list from -> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3110069&cid=41305947

---

TOP 50/200++ RANKED SOUTHERN REGIONAL UNIVERSITIES USING Windows (from -> http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-colleges-north )

---

The Citadel: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.citadel.edu

Mercer University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=mercer.edu

Marymount University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.marymount.edu

University of North Carolina - Wilmington: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=uncw.edu

Elon University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.elon.edu

Samford University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.samford.edu

Belmont University: Runs their domain on Windows (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.belmont.edu

Bellarmine University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.bellarmine.edu

Union University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.uu.edu

Converse College: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.converse.edu

Spring Hill College: Runs their domain on Windows (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.shc.edu

Lipscomb University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.lipscomb.edu

Harding University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.harding.edu

Queens University of Charlotte: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.queens.edu

Winthrop University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.winthrop.edu

University of Tampa: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ut.edu

Murray State University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.murraystate.edu

Christopher Newport University: Runs their domain on Windows (mix) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.cnu.edu

Shenandoah University: Runs their domain on Wi

I have a PhD in CS from a top-20 US university and now work in an industry research lab. Like most PhD recipients, I started grad school right after college and finished before starting my professional career. I would say getting the PhD is the single best decision I ever made, and looking back at my high school and college trajectory, it now seems like it was an inevitability. I always wanted to work in technology research, hack on software prototypes, work on R&D projects for a large influential company, and make more money. I've gotten all those, and I'm grateful for the opportunities. I make about 25% to 50% more in base salary than my friends who went to the same grad school but graduated with a MS degree. I also have more technical freedom at work because I have the publications and track record to back up what I'm saying. In the couple of times I sent my resume out for a new job (e.g. Google, MSFT, Facebook), I've gotten callbacks within 48 hours.

I do agree with some of the other unwashed heathens here who have only MS degrees that you can indeed get a great job with just a MS degree. But why limit yourself? Also, I agree that not all PhD programs are the same. I've seen some PhDs from 3rd tier universities work as test engineers. So in the end, I would say that you should get a PhD only if you can land at a CS grad school top-20 university. It is not worth your time getting a PhD from a university outside of this group. If you do get in, establish your area of expertise by publishing a lot of papers at top-tier conferences in order to strengthen your case for getting an interview at a lab like MSR. I recommend you do your dissertation in a field that has high value to companies, like machine learning or IR.

By the way, never take out a loan for grad school. If you work as a TA or research assistant, you will get paid while you attend school. The national average seems to be about $25k/year according to all my PhD colleagues.

You mean my loser friend from high school who spends all day in front of his computer posting updates on his shitty life *isn't* the perfect person to target with an ad for a $40,000 new car?!?!?

Probably not. Although convincing him that the 2011 Chevrolet Aveo (with an MSRP of $12,000) is the best investment he could make now that his rusted out junker needs a new transmission might be worth a few bucks to GM. If he has income and can get an auto loan from a bank, they're interested in him. America is full of losers like your friend that still need cars to go to their shitty job so they can afford their shitty food, pay their shitty rent and make shitty car payments. Transitioning these sales strategies of "most dependable" or "safest in its class" from TV to online hubs of entertainment isn't too far of a stretch, is it?

You really have no idea what you are talking about do you? Find one significant program where CS is a separate department.

Sure. From the 2010 US News rankings of Computer Science:

1. Carnegie Mellon. Separate CS and ECE.
1. Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Combined EECS. Separate CSAIL.
1. Stanford. Separate CS and EE.
1. UC Berkely. Combined EECS. Administratively split into separate EE and CS divisions.
5. Cornell. Separate CS and ECE.
5. UIUC. Separate CS and ECE.
7. Washington. Separate CSE and EE.
8. Princeton. Separate CS and EE.
8. UT Austin. Separate CS and ECE.
10. Georgia Tech. Separate CS and ECE.

Need I continue, or is this enough evidence that maybe I do know what I'm talking about and that you should be quiet for a while?

UF - the party school!

Having degrees that actually require "study" is against school policy?

OTOH, how many people go to UF for CS degrees? It isn't like a top 10 school or anything. #39 isn't really that bad. http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/university-of-florida-134130 Their math department is ranked in the 50s, so perhaps that should be eliminated too?

BTW, I live in a nearby state and we have lots and lots of UF grads here. Some are really smart, unfortunately, none of these folks are in the school's administration.

When I think of UF, I think
* sports
* marketing
* business
* biology (location, location, location)

I don't think engineering, CS, architecture .... sorry.

QUESTION #1 of 2 - Does HILTON.COM own the hilton.com domain, & does Hilton use Windows on it?!

Answer YES or NO! After all, you said this:

"when most are domain based systems... Sure, you're right, they do have Windows servers." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)

That's 1 & due to your use of the word DOMAIN!

Thus, I want the above question answered IN FULL from you! You avoid it, you further prove my point.

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"Troll is Troll, and because they have one server that has to make them windows dominate" - by Rasperin (1034758) on Saturday April 07, @01:50PM (#39607549)

Calling me NAMES again (ontop of Shill & shit when you said you "kept a level head"? Bullshit)... but, ok:

Funny, HILTON.COM's already PROVEN to run on Windows (gosh that's another Windows machine @ hilton) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=hilton.com

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"Your response still seems like a troll looking to start an argument, and a shill try to show that everyone uses windows for their servers when most are domain based systems." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)

Calling me names YET AGAIN, eh? Ok:

Again (2nd time I ask this, you avoided it earlier):

QUESTION #2 of 2 - Show us where I EXPLICITLY STATED "everyone uses Window", ok?

* You f'ing bullshit artist... my turn on name tossing now, troll. You started it, this vindicates me easily.

---

"hilton.com is controlled and created by a 3rd party, those servers do not belong to Hilton." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)

AGAIN - Still Hilton's domain, they OWN it, right? YES or NO?? - that's yet ANOTHER Windows system for Hilton.

---

"It has nothing on linux" - by Rasperin (1034758) on Saturday April 07, @01:50PM (#39607549)

Oh, really? Counter THIS then:

HILTON HOTELS: Manages 1.4 Billion records a day for customers in 1000's of their hotels worldwide - for 370,000 rooms & catering services forecasts (switching from 6 *NIX systems to 1 Windows Server 2003 + SQLServer 2005 clustered failover system using a data warehouse with 7 million rows & 99.998% uptime).

* I'll be waiting...

(Ahem: My source? That came straight from Microsoft via their "GET THE FACTS" program, via EWeek magazine inserts on that much they used to do... )

APK

P.S.=> Per my subject line above & this quote from you:

"Do another work up on that for schools in the US please. I'd like to see that." by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @04:41PM (#39622815)

You wanted information on schools that use Windows? Ok, easily (top-notch schools in fact by the score) - they won't even ALL FIT, but here goes:

---

90++ TOP RANKED UNIVERSITIES USING Windows (from -> http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/ )

---

Baylor University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.baylor.edu

Texas Tech University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ttu.edu

Temple University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.temple.edu

Drexel University: Runs their domain on Windows ->

Seems I'm a bit late to the party, but my youngest is going through this process right now so I have lots of info.

I'm assuming that by "camp" you really mean "going to cool classes filled with lots of nerds and maybe even some cute girls." If that is the case, then you probably won't find any "camp" that does it. What you need is a summer program, likely run by a top 100 US college/university.

A large number of them offer high school programs during the summer. Some of them give you college credits (way cool!), while others don't. At 15yo, I think you should focus on finding a good program before considering whether credits are give. If you were older, I'd place a higher priority on the credits but you have time to get those.

All of these programs have competitive admission. That means you have to apply and be accepted. Many offer scholarships. Deadlines for them are in the next couple of months so you need to get a move on.

These programs widely vary in nature so be sure to do your research. Here are some examples that I happen to be familiar with (not recommending them, I can just describe them without researching them). Here is a comparison of two programs. Both provide on-campus housing with other high-school program students, and lots of evening and weekend social activities. The BU program is fairly typical while the Stanford one is rather unique.
    - Boston University: Wide array of subjects. You take regular classes with other BU summer students (eg: you could be the only high school student in a class of 40 students). Must take ~8 credits (2 classes) for the ~6-week program.
    - Stanford University: Has a program similar to BU's but also offers a series of 2-week, non-credit program. You take one class and are given a written appraisal when done. If the appraisal is good, it can be used for college admissions. The class has about 15~40 students, all in the same program. You live in a small dorm that only houses your classmates and your class's teaching assistants. Basically, you think about one subject, 24x7, for the two weeks. There's a formal lecture in the morning, taught by a full faculty member and then the afternoon is small groups and individual work done in your dorm (remember your teaching assistants are living with in your dorm). Looks like a wonderful 2-week geekfest. I wish they took people my age :-) They only offer about a dozen programs. I think this year they are offering several computer science ones (eg; AI) and all of them require some degree of programming skill. I think you spend most of your time with your classmates so if female company is important to you, you may want to contact the school to find out about the typical male-to-female ratios. While they may not be able to give you exact numbers, they will have good estimates as colleges carefully track these stats.

Something like 90% of the top 100 universities have programs like BU's. My son went to BU last year and simply loved it. The Stanford program is the only one of its kind that I am aware of.

All of these programs really like taking non-American students as they like to brag about how many countries were represented in their summer program for the previous year. While you still need to apply to these programs, being non-American will likely give you a bit of a boost.

Hope this helps,

Neil

PS: You can use http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities for the list of best colleges. I'm not sure it's the best list, but it is easy to find and good enough to point you at the summer programs.

90++ TOP RANKED UNIVERSITIES USING Windows (from -> http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/ )

---

Baylor University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.baylor.edu

Texas Tech University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ttu.edu

Temple University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.temple.edu

Drexel University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=drexel.edu

Pace University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.pace.edu

Southern Methodist University (SMU): Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.smu.edu

Colorado State University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.colostate.edu

Washington University in St. Louis: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.wustl.edu

Hofstra University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.hofstra.edu

DePaul University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.depaul.edu

Texas A&M University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.tamuk.edu

Clarkson University: -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.clarkson.edu

Fordham University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.fordham.edu

Texas Christian University (TCU): Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.tcu.edu

Florida A&M University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.famu.edu

St.John Fisher University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.sjfc.edu

St.John's University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.stjohns.edu

Kent State University of Ohio: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.kent.edu

Ball State University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=cms.bsu.edu

Jackson State University: Runs their domain on Windows ->

"Besides I'm honestly curious about how well it ranked back in the 80's, when it actually matters since you pretend being a student there around that period." - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 27, @04:40PM (#38507474)

LeMoyne was actually better rated @ the time I attended & always a "best buy" top 10 in the nation too as per this -> http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-universities-north/best-value currently!

I was seriously interested by that information, because you will agree that recent and current rankings are meaningless for 1985, that is illogical from you to use them as "proof" of anything. Right ?

But apparently you cannot produce ranking from 1985. We have to trust you about "better rated @the time I attended", and I don't want to trust you. Back up your words man.

I also note that you skip the 50 National Universities that probably stand high above your beloved Regional Universities. Don't they ?

you can't show us a damned thing of note you've ever done in computing yet you attack others & demand it of they (me specifically now)... bit different though according to your "rules" (bogus ones), when the shoes put on the other foot & you run from it, lol!

HOWEVER: Your "Greatest Hits/FAIL" was the above... lmao: Per my subject-line above, "can't backup your words", eh? Prove then that I am not who I claim to be... ok??

(Burden of proof's now on Mr. Stalker Troll, & as-per-his-usual b.s., he evades it, lol!)

YOU can't show us a damned thing of note you've ever done in computing, yet YOU claim many "acomplishments". I claimed nothing. Can you find an accomplishment I claimed and didn't prove ? Nope. Can we find accomplishments you claimed you didn't prove ? yes, plenty of them.

See, I don't change the rules. I apply the exact same rule to you and me: "can't prove it ? don't claim it, it's a lie until proven otherwise !". No hypocrisy.

Otherwise, prove I'm not Bill gates. (that sounds very illogical, doesn't it ? me being Bill Gates ! still you cannot prove I'm not me, so I'm Bill Gates per your exact reasonning above.)

That's what logical people call a logical fallacy, and you're full of it.

"Because I (and more likely "we") want to get rid of your 1000-lines spam-posts, your illegible writing style and your insufferable arrogance and paranoia. Not to talk about your trolling of course." - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 27, @04:40PM (#38507474)

Quit projecting, & speak for yourself... you're guilty of all of the above

Then show us. Can't back up your words ? Too bad ...

seriously, you have issues, severe ones... get professional help, seriously.

Can you show us that PhD in psychiatry of yours before libelling other people ? (ouch, that one must be painful for you. One of your favorite answer, back to your face. talking about the kettle ...)

"U.S. News...particularly known for its ranking system and annual reports on American colleges, graduate schools and hospitals." from -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_News

"Read all about it", right there, in black & white from a good source in wikipedia!

* Yes, I think that everyone would agree that folks would take their credibility, over yours... lol, no questions asked!

Really, no question asked? read all about it then: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_college_and_university_rankings_%28North_America%29

I take it that you will say you are right and Stanford (et al.) are wrong, of course ?

the cherry

"Besides I'm honestly curious about how well it ranked back in the 80's, when it actually matters since you pretend being a student there around that period." - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 27, @04:40PM (#38507474)

LeMoyne was actually better rated @ the time I attended & always a "best buy" top 10 in the nation too as per this -> http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-universities-north/best-value currently!

See - this is WHY our mascot's a Dolphin: Far more intelligent than the trolls amongst us (attempting & failing your illogical off topic ad hominem attacks on me constantly around here in utilizing them... trolls such as yourself).

---

"you did nothing (since you cannot prove it) so by doing nothing," - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 27, @04:40PM (#38507474)

Talking about yourself again? Absolutely, because you can't show us a damned thing of note you've ever done in computing yet you attack others & demand it of they (me specifically now)... bit different though according to your "rules" (bogus ones), when the shoes put on the other foot & you run from it, lol!

HOWEVER: Your "Greatest Hits/FAIL" was the above... lmao: Per my subject-line above, "can't backup your words", eh? Prove then that I am not who I claim to be... ok??

(Burden of proof's now on Mr. Stalker Troll, & as-per-his-usual b.s., he evades it, lol!)

---

LMAO @ the sheer hypocrisy in this one, lol:

"Because I (and more likely "we") want to get rid of your 1000-lines spam-posts, your illegible writing style and your insufferable arrogance and paranoia. Not to talk about your trolling of course." - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 27, @04:40PM (#38507474)

Quit projecting, & speak for yourself... you're guilty of all of the above, & more like stalking me all over this forums!

(Face it: You WISH you were me...)

---

"Wasn't me" - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 27, @04:40PM (#38507474)

Ahem (*cough* BULLSHIT *cough*)... "Oh, of course not! (heavy sarcasm there)... Yea, right, lol!

You're stalking me all over slashdot like some sort of freak - seriously, you have issues, severe ones... get professional help, seriously.

(I've gotta hand it to you though - your numerous blunders & mistakes + evading backup of your own words once a burden of proof's on you & you FOLD/RUN, lol... hilarious, funny, and makes me LOOK GOOD too! Can't beat it, lol!)

---

This took the cake from you though, lmao:

"This is so unbelievably illogical that I don't even know where to begin with" - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 27, @04:40PM (#38507474)

It's not our fault you can't even tie your shoelaces, lol, but also that you're completely off topic, and using illogical ad hominem attacks directed my way... incredible: How much more "pot calling the kettle black" eh? This troll's unreal, he always falls into it & his actions defeat his so-called "arguments", lol - Always failing your illogical off topic ad hominem attacks on me constantly around here in utilizing them... trolls such as yourself).

---

"You sure have a high opinion of a list that doesn't even mention top-universities/college in it.." - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 27, @04:40PM (#38507474)

So do others, USNews is like *THE* source for the information on collegiate rankings... many other sites use its data as a source in fact!

Highly rated too ->

PERTINENT QUOTE/EXCERPT:

---

"U.S. News...particularly known for its ranking system and annual rep

"Oh, and the college you graduated at is shit, and the sort of place a loser who couldn't get into a proper university would go to." - by Anonymous Coward ad hominem attack utilizing trolls with no degree to his name on Sunday December 25, @06:28PM (#38490538)

"Le Moyne College's ranking in the 2012 edition of Best Colleges is Regional Universities (North), 18." Quoted FROM -> http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/le-moyne-college-2748

* Ah, yes... there's NOTHING like using current documented FACTS from reputable & reliable sources, to make trolls "eat their words"... lol!

(So troll, tell us: How do those words of yours taste, now that they're "FLAVORED WITH THE BITTER TASTE OF DEFEAT"?)

APK

P.S.=> You'd better "brush up" on your "trolling schools", fool... because like usual? I'll just use FACTS to "dust you", as always...

... apk

you're delusional. WPI is NOT right beneath MIT in terms of "highly regarded schools". On top of that, it would be out-of-state tuition for him. OP, take a look at this list and pick the best compromise between cost/rank. http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/eng-rankings/page+2 Looks like you're going to be paying high tuition if you pick off that list, but there are reasons that colleges make those lists. And, more than the people you go to school with, the school's name on your degree will help with your career. Well....maybe. I got my degree from UT Austin (#8 on the list above), and got a job at NASA after graduation. I got it through connections, so those are important, but not "sell yourself into slavery for life because of student loans" important. Engineering is different from most other careers; engineers are largely pragmatic, skeptical and antisocial. So, the rules of thumb that apply to things like business and marketing and other no-value-added careers don't tend to apply. Now onto the more editorial portion of my reply. You might want to consider going ME instead of ASE, because the degree itself (assuming you only want undergrad) could be a limiting factor on your career. Aerospace is one of the most volatile career fields to get into. It's blown by every wind of political change you can imagine, and, in the private sector, everything is so highly marginalized that the top companies usually resort to massive layoffs in order to make their bottom lines look better when projects start getting into cost overruns. If you'd like, I can continue this more later, after dinner.

Here are the rankings for top 10. You can buy the full lists. but even better is send off questions to HR at SNC, SpaceX, Blue Horizons, etc and ask them. HR ppl are fairly stupid about the engineering and science world. They could not tell a total loser from Einstein. The reason is that most of them were losers from the business world (HR and Marketing is where the dredges of business worlds go to). BUT, HR WILL have a list of the top schools that they employ. And yes, they will be happy to tell you that.

Look up the economic diversity stats. Where are the Ivies? You know, there were some rich blacks during the age of slavery too, that doesn't mean that barriers, even noes that aren't de jure, aren't real, and exceptions don't disprove the rule. Every time I hear that 'everyone I knew wasn't rich' line it's always a personal anecdote, based on self reporting no doubt. How do I know that 'the bottom 50 percent' here doesn't mean 'had last year's Mercedes'? Work hard enough and you can make anything happen, technically true, but by that same token, there's nothing physically stopping an impoverished rural Ethiopian woman from becoming the richest person in the world, oh if only she were to work hard enough.

Do you have any idea how much higher that is than most states?

Yes, yes I do. If you'd clicked on the link I provided in my post you would also because it lists it all out for every single state. Apparently 34 states receive more than $0.94 for every dollar paid in taxes. In fact, 33 states receive a dollar or more for every dollar paid in taxes. Once again, this was my source: http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/266.html Also, you said that Texas has "the worst education systems". According to a 2009 US News ranking of the Best High Schools by state Texas ranked 14th. I found that here: http://education.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/education/high-schools/articles/2009/12/09/americas-best-high-schools-state-by-state-statistics Is anything you say accurate?

Pricing and trims haven't been announced, but reviewers expect the iQ to start around $12,000.

Less money, maybe not, but within spitting distance is the Nissan GTR:
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Nissan_GT-R/ - $79,796

The Z06 is $70,502 so not THAT much cheaper especially when compared with the performance of the GTR.
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Chevrolet_Corvette-Z06/

The Corvette ZR1 which is the one close in performance to the GTR is $101,106
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Chevrolet_Corvette-ZR1/

For the basic Corvette at $46,927
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Chevrolet_Corvette/Performance/

You may want to compare the Subaru Impreza WRX at $24,316
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Subaru_Impreza-WRX/

Heck, if you find the straight WRX to not be in the league for the base corvette, you could upgrade to the STI version which is ~ $33,995.

Less money, maybe not, but within spitting distance is the Nissan GTR:
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Nissan_GT-R/ - $79,796

The Z06 is $70,502 so not THAT much cheaper especially when compared with the performance of the GTR.
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Chevrolet_Corvette-Z06/

The Corvette ZR1 which is the one close in performance to the GTR is $101,106
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Chevrolet_Corvette-ZR1/

For the basic Corvette at $46,927
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Chevrolet_Corvette/Performance/

You may want to compare the Subaru Impreza WRX at $24,316
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Subaru_Impreza-WRX/

Heck, if you find the straight WRX to not be in the league for the base corvette, you could upgrade to the STI version which is ~ $33,995.

Less money, maybe not, but within spitting distance is the Nissan GTR:
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Nissan_GT-R/ - $79,796

The Z06 is $70,502 so not THAT much cheaper especially when compared with the performance of the GTR.
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Chevrolet_Corvette-Z06/

The Corvette ZR1 which is the one close in performance to the GTR is $101,106
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Chevrolet_Corvette-ZR1/

For the basic Corvette at $46,927
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Chevrolet_Corvette/Performance/

You may want to compare the Subaru Impreza WRX at $24,316
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Subaru_Impreza-WRX/

Heck, if you find the straight WRX to not be in the league for the base corvette, you could upgrade to the STI version which is ~ $33,995.

Less money, maybe not, but within spitting distance is the Nissan GTR:
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Nissan_GT-R/ - $79,796

The Z06 is $70,502 so not THAT much cheaper especially when compared with the performance of the GTR.
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Chevrolet_Corvette-Z06/

The Corvette ZR1 which is the one close in performance to the GTR is $101,106
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Chevrolet_Corvette-ZR1/

For the basic Corvette at $46,927
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Chevrolet_Corvette/Performance/

You may want to compare the Subaru Impreza WRX at $24,316
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Subaru_Impreza-WRX/

Heck, if you find the straight WRX to not be in the league for the base corvette, you could upgrade to the STI version which is ~ $33,995.

Less money, maybe not, but within spitting distance is the Nissan GTR:
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Nissan_GT-R/ - $79,796

The Z06 is $70,502 so not THAT much cheaper especially when compared with the performance of the GTR.
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Chevrolet_Corvette-Z06/

The Corvette ZR1 which is the one close in performance to the GTR is $101,106
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Chevrolet_Corvette-ZR1/

For the basic Corvette at $46,927
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Chevrolet_Corvette/Performance/

You may want to compare the Subaru Impreza WRX at $24,316
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Subaru_Impreza-WRX/

Heck, if you find the straight WRX to not be in the league for the base corvette, you could upgrade to the STI version which is ~ $33,995.

My point was primarily that the Ivy league is seriously overrated, especially the sort of premiere Ivy league schools which everyone associates as being Ivy league schools(Yale, Harvard, Princeton, Brown, etc). The big two Harvard and Yale in particular are astoundingly poor for certain kinds of degrees. Their admission criteria also reflect this.

I may have overstated my case somewhat, but my point still stands. If you want to get a top notch Engineering or Computer Science degree, there are a number of schools which are substantially better than most of the Ivy League schools including some public schools.

Yes you're right, Cornell has a good department(I confess I'd forgotten Cornell was even considered an Ivy school), and Princeton appears to be reasonable. However if you look at this list, you'll see that 10 public universities outrank Harvard and Columbia, and three outrank Princeton.

Given how high the tuition for places like Harvard are, and how extreme the admission criteria. They just don't seem to be worth it for this kind of degree. I got my CS undergrad at UW-Madison, and my tuition for all 4 years was less than a single year at Harvard, and it was a hell of a lot easier to get into.

If you're going to jump through hoops to get into an extremely prestigious private school you'd do better with CMU, MIT, or Stanford.

I'm not an expert on the natural sciences, but I stand by the fact that going to an Ivy for CS is pissing your money away. If you're looking for an expensive private school there are better ones, and there are plenty of top tier public universities which won't require you to give up every single second of your life during high school to get in.

The Ivy League is great for some things, but at that kind of money and time invested just to get in, I just really don't see them being a contender for comp sci degrees.

Hmm... something is missing.

Sorry, I'm not usually this kind of dick, but bragging about how "hard" an ivy league school is is inviting it.

>>It says "The California State University" at the top of the tuition info I quoted; if it's not the University of California, what the heck is it, then?

There's the state universities (SDSU, SJSU, SFSU, Fresno State, etc.), and the University of California (UCSD, UCLA, UC Berkeley, UCSF, etc.), two different public education systems. The state universities are cheaper and more crowded, and the UC system is considered to have a better academic reputation. The state universities don't offer nearly as good a grad school program, if they offer it at all, but they tend to offer things like teacher credential and business programs that some UC schools ignore.

For example, if you want to be a teacher and you're at UC San Diego, you have to drive across town to SDSU to get it. Likewise, if you're in Air Force ROTC at UCSD, you have to drive to SDSU twice a week, and so forth.

The state schools tend to have better athletics programs, with the exception of UCLA and Berkeley.

The University of California has a number of top ten public school spots in the various lists, such as best Pharmacy School (UCSF), best Bioengineering Department (UCSD) and so forth, and owns half of the spots on the overall top 10 list.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-top-public

US undergrad, US graduate, world.

US undergrad, US graduate, world.

> bachelor's degrees from state schools are trashed on arrival.

Hah! Judging by this and this, it is your loss. I'm curious though as to what industry domain you work in- with companies that are so ludicrously selective. It sounds like nothing less than an opportunity.

grades and standardized testing scores are what matter at MIT.

And, statistically speaking, money. Hey, don't blame me, I know no one wants to hear this any more than people want to hear about racism or sexism at a favored place, but that's just the numbers. I wish I could link to the site that has more than just Pell numbers but that site appear to be down at the moment, but its enlightening.

Also the AC above was right:

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/college/items/3749

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Mason_University

GMU's endowment is only $54,955,028. Wikipedia had an extra 1 on the front for some reason (I fixed it.)

At the same time, I got the corrected figure from the reference cited on Wikipedia, so it doesn't really discredit wikipedia, so much as prove you need to follow your sources, whatever you're reading.

http://eagle.gmu.edu/gazette/articles/9750
This article also puts the endowment as just reaching 50 million a few years ago.

There are many top engineering schools that are not in MA or CA. Yes, they are prominent, but there are many more in other states.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/rankings