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They have their own rapidly growing technology sector, including china developed chips and Red Flag linux and they are building their own space agency. Investmenting in technology is crucial to challenging the US lead economically, politically and militarily.

They have little or no foreign debt and growing economic power...

This rather than being the New American Century is likely to be Chinese!

It is called Red Flag Linux and has been around for a couple of years.

The champoin of freedom in a world which had become a matrix of digital prisons. The ones that stood up to it all without flinching. The Chinese...

http://www.redflag-linux.com/eindex.html

Whatever happened to China's Red Flag Linux? They have Server and Desktop flavors available.

It seems like if they want the most bank for the buck they should just work on Linux and create their own distribution. Something like Redflag Software Co., however I doubt countries such as China would be interested in something so open as Linux. Unless they had other motives such as installing filtering code deep in the kernel or something to block access to content they don't want you to see.

Here are some example Chinese distros:

Red Flag

Cosix

Magic Linux

XTeam

More like a little Red Flag for that nice new laptop of yours...

You're are probably right about the IP space being fine for the number of actual computers, but I wanted to respond to this point:

I'd love to some facts to backup your claim of 45.8m internet users in China

The CIA says 48.5 million users. I see no reason why they'd lie. The figure may be inflated a little, but it's probably ballpark accurate.

Your own link (first one) states 1% of China has a computer. That's ~10 million computers. But Hong Kong alone (technically part of China, listed separately in the stats on that link) has 7 million people - and 29% have computers in their household.

The abundance of (literally thousands) of internet cafes probably helps as well. People over there will certainly share access (ie: one PC per household of six / one PC at a cafe may have 8 different users a day) - but each person still counts towards being a user of the internet.

45.8 million internet users in China is not an unrealistic figure.

Also, note that China has an official Linux distribution: Red Flag Linux (english website | review). They also make their own CPU, the Dragon, a MIPS clone originally designed for the Chinese military.

You're are probably right about the IP space being fine for the number of actual computers, but I wanted to respond to this point:

I'd love to some facts to backup your claim of 45.8m internet users in China

The CIA says 48.5 million users. I see no reason why they'd lie. The figure may be inflated a little, but it's probably ballpark accurate.

Your own link (first one) states 1% of China has a computer. That's ~10 million computers. But Hong Kong alone (technically part of China, listed separately in the stats on that link) has 7 million people - and 29% have computers in their household.

The abundance of (literally thousands) of internet cafes probably helps as well. People over there will certainly share access (ie: one PC per household of six / one PC at a cafe may have 8 different users a day) - but each person still counts towards being a user of the internet.

45.8 million internet users in China is not an unrealistic figure.

Also, note that China has an official Linux distribution: Red Flag Linux (english website | review). They also make their own CPU, the Dragon, a MIPS clone originally designed for the Chinese military.

Argh! I'm late to the rant party. I suspect this will never get read by anybody, but here's a thought for you:

Let's say IBM chooses to fight this (this seems to be the plan), and let's say some idiot US judge actually sides with SCO, and let's say SCO looses on appeal. Won't this really end up meaning that all Linux development will happen outside of the states? (a whole slew of it does already.) Think about Alan Cox's "I can't describe this security patch because it's a violation of the DMCA." Think about how open source cryptology was developed when encryption was considered a munition. Remember poor Phil Zimmerman?

I figure if they do win, they'll only be screwing over those of us who live (and program) in the states. Will China care? Especially two years from now when Red Flag Linux has gotten that much better. Will Europe care? (It's not like there is a whole lot of love between the US and Europe these days.) I suspect the rest of the world will shrug their shoulders at the silly Americans and their inane legal system and that will be the end of it.

Red Flag Linux (Chinese), read a review here.

Sorry, I'd rather fund terrorism than communism.

Is a chinese linux distro

with China rising hugely -- in the Linux sense -- right in the middle of it all.

Right on. Look at RedFlag Linux. It's backed by China Government, RedHat-based Linux distro.

In my opinion, China Government is no much an Open Source advocate, instead, MS forced them to take this path. I got some underground news when I worked for IBM around 94, when we completed each other developing a Chinese OS for Mainland China. The progress of the development our Chinese OS/2 was not as fast as Windows 95 because they outsourced their work to Taiwan and we've put comparatively too much effort on testing(I were one of the full-time tester in Asian region).

That was the biggest mistake MS has ever made.

As usual, MS pushed their first release of Simplified Chinese version of Win95 before thorough testing. To China Government dismay, they found that whenever they type the word 'Kung'(the first word of Communism in Chinese), the association helper immediate popup the word 'bandit' after it. 'Communist Bandit' is how Taiwanese called Communist party in Mainland China.

That was a really good prank the Taiwanese Developers made for China Government. :)

I've also been told that there's still a couple of nasty easter eggs hidden in this first release of OS(or Word/Excel?) that made fun of some lead people in communist party, that pissed them very much. Although MS had done everything to 'repair' the damage, but as a common practise of them "this shall not be forgiven."

RedFlag Linux may be the first major getback on MS. :)

Red Flag Linux - a beatiful thing

the 'real' work is being done in China.

Like China can modify Red Hat's source code. Now if you said Red Flag I might believe you. I would also believe you if you said China used Red Flag Linux to put presure on Red Hat :)

Um, go install Red Flag. It is a modified Red Hat distro. And which do you think the average Chinese GNU/Linux user is more likely to have?

They make rather interesting products and concepts Redflag Linux, including this Internet ready Microwave Oven design concept. Thanks for posting this article Timothy, these companies seem like worth following!

They make rather interesting products and concepts Redflag Linux, including this Internet ready Microwave Oven design concept. Thanks for posting this article Timothy, these companies seem like worth following!

• It wasn't that long ago that China came out with Commie Linux.
• Then last week we read that M$ and China struck a deal that essentially says that M$ will look the other way regarding software piracy so long at it's M$ software that's being pirated.
• Now we find that the Chinese are rolling their own windoze-substitute.

Anybody got half a clue as to what might be going on?

Regarding Red Flag Desktop 3.0
Span application obstacle and move to a new easiness-to-use magnitude
Redflag Linux desktop 3.0 unveiled
Recently, CAS Redflag Software Technologies Co., Ltd. unveiled in Beijing its latest desktop operating system (OS), i.e., Redflag Desktop 3.0.
While maintaining the inherent stability and high-performance of Linux system, the product, leveraging the cutting-edge Linux 2.4.7 core, remarkably overcomes the deficiencies of the former versions of Linux in terms of operability and gives prominence to OS' humanization and affinity, pushing the easy-to-use and applicability of desktop OS to a new frontier and moving a solid step forward in the application-oriented evolution road.
In December of 2001, CAS Redflag Software Technologies Co., Ltd. differentiated itself among legions of renowned vendors at home and abroad in the fierce competition for Beijing Government contract for OA software package. Redflag Linux Desktop OS featuring high availability and high performance-price ratio has won recognition from the general users and government users alike. The newly-released Redflag Desktop 3.0, while inheriting advantages from the older versions, made a shining debut with humanization and affinity, demonstrating to people once again the promising future of Chinese software industry.
An important index for the genuine maturation of a desktop OS is that whether the system itself is designed on the basis of user care. In this perspective, Redflag Linux Desktop 3.0 makes significant headway in comparison with the older versions. Redflag Linux moves even closer to the users' operating habits and makes reference to the strong-points of some proven OS' regarding system appearance, structure and operation etc., enabling users accustomed to using other OS' and multi-system users to acquaint it very soon.
Redflag optimizes the hardware drivers supported by Redflag Linux Desktop 3.0, significantly improving its applicability and enabling convenient and quick installation on PCs with different configurations. By leveraging simple and intuitive menu installation wizard, common users are able to finish the whole setup process within half an hour. The powerful control panel available seamlessly combines the easiness-of-use with the functionality. The system re-categorizes KDE setting, enabling compliance with operating habits of Windows users.
A performance-price ratio conforming to China's actual situation has been Redflag offerings' advantage all the time. Likewise, the Redflag Desktop 3.0 affordably priced provides complete system functions with user-friendly graphic interface. Taking users' demands into consideration, the system pays close attention to applicability and easy-to-use features. The installation process of the system is very simple and all components feature plug-and-play. Upon completion of installation, the system is capable of operating under the default mode, consequently, whether experienced users or green hands with Linux can use the system skillfully. According to related marketing personnel of Redflag, the story doesn't end here, Redflag Desktop 3.0 accomplishes high-availability while exhibiting very high performance-price ratio. This OS is designed not only for consumers but also for government offices. While the Linux version of office packages to be released by Kingsoft Software, Sun and Chinese 2000 will without doubt accelerate the time-to-market of Linux desktop. As a result, the principles of stability, reliability and security are given prominence by Redflag when designing this OS. The sending/receiving of official documents and smooth headway of government work are the basis of the steady running of the society as a whole, while introducing homemade OS will provide reliable safeguard for the security of government transactions.

End of quote. Ouch!

http://www.redflag-linux.com/upfiles/soft/defaut.g if

And some people tried to claim that the GNU movement wasn't about communism. :) - note smiley for the humor impared

Does anyone here find this to be a little scary?

WTF???

Well the Chinese government has its own Linux distro. I as well am quite curious why they are not building on the Red Flag Linux base. Starting a full operating system and Office suite from scratch is a huge milti-billion dollar project.

Let me repeat: China is not cloning Win98. All y'all villagers can put those torches and pitchforks away. 'Taint nuthin to see here.

Here's what The People's Daily article had to say (in slightly mangled English):

[T]he Beijing municipal government bought software equivalent to Win 95 from Chinese companies such as CS&S and RedFlag. While the newly started two programs would make updates on this basis to improve the software to a level of Win98 and compatible with Office2000 and Word.

Now, what is RedFlag, you ask? It appears to be a Chinese distro of Linux. Yup. And CS&S? That's the China National Computer Software and Technology Service Corporation. Rght here. And *who* did they enter into a big agreement with at the end of last year? That'd be Sun, to license StarSuite, as mentioned in this release.

So to sum up:
China: Running StarSuite under Linux.
Register: Jumping the gun.... again.
Slashdot readers: Hates Microsoft.

Whew. Looks like everything's back to normal around here. =)

I am not Chinese and do not speak Chinese, however I am working in China and was trying to introduce Linux. The following text treats Chinese == simplified, however most of the stuff should be valid for traditional too.

First of all, Chinese under Linux is hell. There seem to be no people being interested in developing open source in China. And if they do then it's difficult to find, crappy and unfinished. Just look at the Mozilla 1.0 simplified Chinese translation, it's not there, the guys did not move since 0.9.8. The Chinese HOWTO is quite old (1998!) and most of the links are dead and the information inside useless (practical experience).

You have several alternatives, I suggest you forget about them: RedFlag Linux (Experience based on 3.0, Redflag 3.2 beta ISO)
I had to use the text installation: I guess it was unicode without unicode support, so all I saw was messy characters but not Chinese. Somehow it's similar to redhat so I was able to click through. After the installation: whoops, the system is asking me for my registration key otherwise I can try RedFlag linux for 40 days (? do not remember how many exactly). It was not just a key, it was one of the Microsoft dimensions. After choosing the trial I ended up in Kde trying to look like windows. It had a tray, and a start bar, the Control Panel and so on. But I had a feeling it was there but it could not satisfy me, and I could not stand the little penguin patriotically holding that red flag up. The Chinese input seems to me to be the most advanced, but the system it self seemed to me unstable. Most modifications were in the interface and trying to lock down the system so you need to get that key after the trial period.

Office: RedOffice different company, same red. It's OpenOffice 1.0 looking like Office XP, that's all except there is no source code, no binaries, only a trial version and a price of 398RMB (~50US$) for the full version. Stick with Chinese OpenOffice.

Mandrake has in my opinion the best Chinese support. You only need to install it using the Chinese language. If you install it using English and then switch to Chinese you will have several problems, like you desktop disappearing etc. Do not use Unicode, use gb or big5 only, I was not able to see anything by switching to Unicode.

After the installation you should have a Chinese kde, Chinese Mozilla 0.9.8 and some more software in Chinese. The best input for simplified is Chinput, for Big5 Xcin and that's how Mandrake is doing it, if you use gb you will get Chinput by pressing Ctrl+Space and Xcin on a Big5 system.

Turbolinux seems to have taken over the Chinput project, therefore you will find no info on the net. They made an extension to Chinput called ZWinPro (ZWinPro-3.2-11.i586.rpm) you need to forceinstall it (solve some libary deps, install unicon but do not uninstall Chinput) and forceinstall Mandrakes Chinput again. This will give you Mandrakes Chinput with a configuration toolbar and some binaries which allow you to use Chinese input for all applications. There are some minor probs you will need to fix (font alias missing, etc), if you have trouble contact me.

The only problem about Chinput (and probably Xcin) is: it's dumb, the windows input tries to guess what you are typing. Means, you need to write character by character on Linux, does not matter if you use Pinyin or Woubi (or what ever you call it). This is very unconvenient and a killer for every Chinese linux desktop. Nobody will want to type 10 min on Linux when he can be finished in 2 on windows.

Next get the Chinese version of OpenOffice1.0 and English Mozilla 1.0. If you want to use a Chinese browser stick to konqueror, Mozilla 0.9.8 is not stable and crashes randomly.

You will want to get some Chinese ttf fonts from windows, as the fonts on Mandrake are quite ugly.

paul

Try Red Flag Linux. It's a Chinese distro, so your friend will be able to read, write, etc in Chinese.

Tux Marching into Tomorrow with the Great Flag of the People is just too cute to pass up. Make it a slashdot topic!

Because, Uh, I'm really interested in embedded stuff, yea, that's it, embedded stuff...

This image from the Red Flag Linux English home page (just to the left of the word News) is the same colour layout as the Microsoft logo, rotated 90 degrees clockwise.

Coincidence?

This image from the Red Flag Linux English home page (just to the left of the word News) is the same colour layout as the Microsoft logo, rotated 90 degrees clockwise.

Coincidence?

The internet ready microwave oven is well on it's way to going in my shopping cart.

I also like the way the "NEW" icon on their homepage is a hyperlink to ... the NEW icon.

From the Red Flag Linux home page:
ControLinux finds application in lottery machine's operating system.

From Roblimo's review of Red Flag:
Unlike a Red Hat install, I was never prompted to create a user or set a root password. I had visions of having to crack my own installation to even log in. I tentatively typed in root, and wondered if I could guess what a Chinese developer would set as a default password, when I was presented with a root prompt!
That's right, they don't set a root password, and seem to expect users will be running as root right from the start.

Hopefully they have better security measures in place on their "other" distributions!

errr my mistake this is the one
not sure if its a good or bad idea considering the no root password on install thing.

anyone happen to find this?

Why is this so contraversial? Does this perticular distro go through the hands of the Chinese govt or something?
Why yes it does as a matter of fact.
"...certified by the Information-system Product Quality Inspection Center under the Ministry of Public Security of China in June 2001."
From here.

The story was written a while ago, but the point is that China did support the concept of "open source" a while back (However I do not know about "officially support"). If you think about it make sense:

The source is available (in China, this is the most important aspect - they [government] likes to know whats going on...)

Getting the source is relatively inexpensive

In RedFlag Linux case it has much going for it:
-Developed by China (China Academy of Science),
-Managed by China (Shanghai NewMargin Venture Capital)
-To be used by China....

I love

Plus the obvious "RedFlag, Kills Windows DEAD!"

This is got to be one of the coolest distro's around.

I like the 'microwave oven' idea.

I know people have been hacking that sorta' thing for years, but this one isn't a hack.

• "Redflag Joins Hands with EdgeMatrix of Singapore to Tap China?s Multimedia Communication Market", nice to know that the linux distro taps communication.
• ControLinux finds application in lottery machine?s operating system, yeah, it must be coincidence that the name is 'Control-inux'

You can get ahold of Red Flag Linux, no problemo. You should be able to read chinese, however.

http://www.redflag-linux.com/

• They don't like the Linux Chinese language support

Uh, wait... Red Flag Linux doesn't sell a properly localised version?

Is that really the case, or is there some other issue? It's easier to get pirated copies of Windows than of Red Flag perhaps?

Well, there is hope.

Hm, it seems like those self-imposed 'real muslims' will succeed on all fronts they're opening: first by uniting all muslims by provoking a massive retaliation against Afghanistan, and then by teasing us devils into shutting down the filthy internet by ourselves. Don't even go there, remember: the Taliban forbid all net access in Afghanistan.

The posters on the forum in question leave traces, just like everyone else, that's some more monitoring targets for the FBI/CIA. Only this time, don't lose attention.

If you keep aiming where Microsoft has already been, then your opportunities will be in China.

Thanks for your concern, but most citizens here are not using legal copy of Microsoft's software, what'd be the incentive of using SO?

Wait a minute, I'm not trolling - I live in China. :)

Also, some people might have misunderstood, Microsoft has done a lot in making Chinese Office. Even now SO/OS/Moz/KOffice still have some problems in displaying/inputting Chinese, so the incentive of changing is further lower.

However, it's not without chance. BSA will come to China soon after World Trade, and the days of pirating MS Office will be gone. It's very unlikely a normal citizen who made US$100 a month could afford a US$400(or more) Office suite(professional could make more than US$1000 a month, even so....)

So would Microsoft lowers the price for the market? Very unlikely, because the problem of water goods still exist, and from their track record Microsoft will not do anything in favor of third world countries. *Wow* what a relief. :)

Also, Government is actually encouraging using opensource software in their support of RedFlag Linux.

Red Flag Linux is available for sale here in Hong Kong. I guess that counts as 'distributing Red Flag linux ... publicly (sic)'.

see http://www.redflag-linux.com/. (or http://world.altavista.com/urltrurl?url=http%3A%2F %2Fwww.redflag-linux.com&lp=zh_en&tt=url&urltext= for a translation.)

dave

A more appropriate symbol would be a penguin using the NSA Key to bash in the head of the commie penguin who symbolizes Red Flag Linux.

Is it because it is not a third world nation with a mushrooming population like India? Is it because most of its population dosen't live in abject poverty like Africa?

Oh, no, it's because a linux distribution was developed in china so you had to omit the country to "prove" your point.

Since when has the development of a linux distribution been a mark of cultural autonomy anyhow? Last I checked, there were no Finnish Linux distributions.

I expect in 15-20 years we will all be running an OS designed and programmed in China.

You mean like Red Flag Linux (no, really)?

I don't know about Hindi or Arabic, but Chinese has been available for quite some time. Go to Red Flag Linux were the official Linux of the People's Republic of China is available for Download. And yes, it has a Chinese install and KDE. GNOME is coming. The box stands on my desk righht before me, so don't bother to deny its existance ;o)