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I wonder if they had publicly accessible sources? I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't - security through state secrets and all.

They still do. (Sorry to disappoint you.)

And they have their own - Red Flag Linux. Just stage it on top of whatever they run, and they're off to the races

That's why we had to move to Red Flag Linux instead.

next year will be the year of the [Red Flag] Linux Desktop. In all seriousness though, updating China has to be eagerly anticipated in Redmond. It might even be in the Chinese government's interests to encourage users to adopt Linux rather than sending all that money to the States.

Now you know why I'm considering a switch to Red Flag Linux: I'm hoping that the Chinese backdoors will cancel out the ones from the NSA.

Or at least keep them busy.

What they really need is a free upgrade path from the pirated versions of Windows.

What they really need is a free system, like GNU/Linux

Dear Mr Gates,

We like to using your software but it does not go well in Chinese. Instead we have make our own called Red Flag Linux, you can look here:

http://www.redflag-linux.com/en/

Dear Mr. Hu:

This is Mr. Allen responding, as Mr. Gates is not longer with our organisation. However, we're all pleased to hear that you have found software solution that meets your financial needs and pledge our support in ensuring that your Linux solution is the only free one used in China.

Our compliance office is currently compiling a list of individuals who appear to be violating your Linux policies by using Microsoft products and suggest a fine of $640/year, payable to Microsoft, for each such violation.

Microsoft is fully supportive of open software solutions and is looking forward to working with your government's current and future mandates in this regard.

Dear Mr Gates,

We like to using your software but it does not go well in Chinese. Instead we have make our own called Red Flag Linux, you can look here:

http://www.redflag-linux.com/en/

We let anyone use this, for free, we do not need payment.

Hu Jintao

Leader of Largest Country In World

http://www.redflag-linux.com/en/download.php

You are a dumb-ass. Not to mention a bigot.

Knowing our luck, they'll get confused and use Red Flag Linux instead.

Yeah, you are so much safer with the government of China having full access to windows and office source code and you not having any, neither direct or indirect. You can bet the government of China will have the interest of western, freedom and democracy loving individuals when the audit windows and office code for bugs and security faults and this from a government that heavily sponsors and uses their own Linux distribution http://www.redflag-linux.com/en/index.php, obviously they are true believers in windows security or is that insecurity.

As for trust, c'mon really, M$ has demonstrated their complete willingness to lie to the end user over and over and over again, there ain't no trust there and to imply that there is, well, that is just so silly.

For all those governments around the world that have no access to M$ windows and office source code there really is no other choice than Linux for security and for all governments and I mean 'ALL' governments who have no control over the code that is in M$ windows and office, there really is no choice other than Linux even to the extent of creating their own secured and audited Linux distributions obviously based upon on widely accepted commercial distribution for compatibility.

Do you know the actual usage rate? Red Flag Linux isn't gaining that much users as claimed.

Not speaking Chinese makes navigating the Chinese Red Flag site difficult, and the English one appears to be somewhat behind, but I note that the .iso files on the web site have accompanying -src.iso files. I haven't downloaded any of the isos to check that they really do include all the source, but start here if you really care: ftp://ftp.redflag-linux.com/pub/redflag/dt5/

nope. They're behind Red Flag Linux.

Umm, hello?

ftp://ftp.redflag-linux.com/pub/redflag/dt6sp1/SP1/

At least it looks like they have both source and binary ISO images (though no directories with individual packages, and English site seems to be unmaintained).

Are there concerns that the Chinese government are going to be spying on citizens using the open source Red Flag operating system

On that topic, is it very easy to get the source code for Red Flag Linux and to compile the whole thing from source?

I searched Google for 'Red Flag Linux' which quickly led me to the English index page that's thin on information. The Download link only seems to allow for downloading an ISO, but I didn't go as far as downloading it. The Wikipedia article for Red Flag Linux states that it's an Open Source model, but doesn't seem too clear beyond that.

Can the entire Red Flag system be compiled from source? Not that it'd really matter, I guess. Most Chinese sysadmins would probably just install the binaries from an official repository anyway.

In moments like these, you just have to appreciate China's solution.

...which hasn't seen a new release since 2004.

In moments like these, you just have to appreciate China's solution.

http://www.redflag-linux.com/eindex.html

On the whole, we'll have to see I guess.

Um, what rock have you been hiding under?

What's the betting it's Red Flag?

Its been tried, tovarich, Red Flag Linux. But if you do package your own distro, I can suggest a great default wallpaper: Linux: Because Micro$oft is for Capitalists Running DOS. Or maybe one of these.

For those of you who would rather be hatin' on my man RMS, here is a nice MS-approved wanted poster.

No, Red Flag is the dominate Linux in China. Specifically it is the Chinese version in Linux.

...the government owns Linux.

Red Flag Linux ( Linux)

Wikipedia:

In March 2001, Bloomberg News reported that CCIDNET Investment, a VC arm of the Ministry of Information Industry, had become Red Flag's second largest shareholder.

In general, it's hard to buy machines with Linux preinstalled, particularly notebooks, directly from hardware vendors in the US. Check out the HP, Dell, and Gateway websites to see what they offer. (I can save you some time and report that it is essentially zero on their US sites.)

As others have noted, Dell, HP, and others have established OEM relationships with resellers such as EmperorLinux, who configure, sell, and support Linux boxes. In that way, HP and Dell can make the money from the hardware sale without incurring the problem of supporting a Linux distro. The reseller can then decide which distros to install and support for each machine. As the end user for a Linux system, that actually works better for me. Even if I could buy it directly from Dell or HP, I already have a fairly good idea of the level of support that they would provide to me as an end user.

So I wouldn't worry very much about Lenovo's shunning of Linux. If they make good machines, someone will come along to configure and support them for Linux.

Is this really any different than China wanting to use a homegrown OS (Red Flag Linux) instead of Windows, because Windows is made by a 'foreign' company, and as such can't be fully trusted?

The intent of the law is that Hu Jintao won't feel embarrassed when he has dinner at Gates' mansion next week. Once he's finished his jaunt, no one will care what you do any more. Also China does have its own officially sanctioned OS, Red Flag which all true Party members should use.

As China refuses to let go off Taiwan, it is still (at least politically) owned by China.
So, they could just roll out Red Flag Linux real quick!
Screw the capitalists/monopolists/satanic-worshippers/anti-c hrists/[insert random irrational stereotypical offensive word here] at Microsoft and get some real bad-assed red commie powers!

*Sigh*. Most of their ISO downloads are from sites like that, it doesn't make them "less legit". Also, workstation-5.0 is stable (which is what I linked to), it's desktop 5.0 that's in beta. Oh, and http://www.redflag-linux.com/xiazai/yingyong.php?d own_type=02 has source RPMs. Anyway, if you've read the GPL, you'd know that the GPL doesn't require Red Flag to post source downloads on their web site, it requires them to provide source if someone who has received a binary from them sends a written request for the source code. Are we done now?

That is the big question isn't it? I'm quite leary of Red Flag because while they are eager to take Red Hat and build some very nice improvements and tools upon it, they are rather reluctant to share the code. Red Flag has a history of not releasing the source and although they are less bad about it, they still don't release the source.

Case in point, Red Flag is presently shipping version 5 of their product. They offer several different version 5 servers for sale but there is not source to be found. In their download area you can download some trial versions and release candidates of their products but notice the lack of recent versions. If you probe their site, you can find this unlinked page that allows you to download Chinese versions of some of the newer server products but, again, no source.

Considering Red Flag's track record I'm very disappointed that OSDL let Red Flag in but, I guess money talks and since Red Flag is government backed, they have lots of money. Regardless of their OSDL membership, I still regard Red Flag as hostile to and the GPL.

That is the big question isn't it? I'm quite leary of Red Flag because while they are eager to take Red Hat and build some very nice improvements and tools upon it, they are rather reluctant to share the code. Red Flag has a history of not releasing the source and although they are less bad about it, they still don't release the source.

Case in point, Red Flag is presently shipping version 5 of their product. They offer several different version 5 servers for sale but there is not source to be found. In their download area you can download some trial versions and release candidates of their products but notice the lack of recent versions. If you probe their site, you can find this unlinked page that allows you to download Chinese versions of some of the newer server products but, again, no source.

Considering Red Flag's track record I'm very disappointed that OSDL let Red Flag in but, I guess money talks and since Red Flag is government backed, they have lots of money. Regardless of their OSDL membership, I still regard Red Flag as hostile to and the GPL.

Here's the link to the official red-flag linux web.


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So many of /. comments on this story are about how Western companies are immoral for bending to the Chinese government. The problem for Western companies is that none of their goods and services are irreplaceable in China, they all have homegrown Chinese substitutes - Red Flag Linux, Sina.com, etc. Western companies can choose to either compete in China on China's terms, or be kicked out. Period. There's no idealistic wiggle room to appease high-minded slashdotters and Western notions of morality. The only real hope is for Western companies to bend to the Communist party's rules in the short-term in the hopes of building influential long-term (all-important in China) relationships with business and politicians there. Over time those relationships may allow the West to influence China in positive ways. Or maybe not, but that's the only strategy with any chance. So my challenge to slashdotters is, if you want to post a moral critique of Western companies for their dealings with China, also supply an alternative, *viable* course of action that they should have done instead of whatever you're criticizing them for. I doubt many will be able to do that.

Mao's Red Hat?

Shouldn't that be Mao's Red Flag?

Are you aware that in Soviet Russia programmers were supposed to send their algorithms to central repository so that they can be reused? And I am not making that up.

One of the projects was " " (the collection of software libraries and applications of Academy of Science of the Soviet Union).

So my guess is that Linus would feel rather at ease in Soviet Union and Linux would be better off, since it's communist in nature anyway. May be he would even call it Red Flag Linux...

Well according the there web site it was the first commercial distribution to be compiled with the Intel compiler. spooky.
Thet've also get some more on Linux in Asia

Well according the there web site it was the first commercial distribution to be compiled with the Intel compiler. spooky.
Thet've also get some more on Linux in Asia

Have you ever heard of the Red Flag distrib?

Go, hide yourself.

I think you may be missing the point. This is a distro for all them southern Yellow Dog Democrats what that would sooner vote for a yellow dog than a Repugnican.

Personally, I have enough trouble telling the difference between Demublicans & Republocrats, so my distro of choice is the more ideologically correct Red Flag Linux from the People's Republic of China. Rather than bark I prefer to Mao...

You assumption is flawed. Your logic only holds if you consider Windows to be superior to Linux. I have to use Windows for work but I generally have a much more pleasant desktop experience with Linux on my own machines.

There have been serious efforts at Chinese home grown Linux distributions such as Ref Flag Linux. I think this clearly suggests that there are Chinese that consider Linux to be the better OS. Since it is open source they can also have own localization and innovate for better input of Chinese characters. This is an advantage of Linux that MS will not be able to match unless they completly throw out their current business model.

They are run by and for Chinese people with Chinese investments. They are not even partnership, meaning they have no obligations to do American corporations favors.

Though MS is now attempting to get a good grip in China, I highly doubt their attempt will become as fruitful as they expect. Even though Windows is still on top of everyone else, selling MS products can be as tricky as selling cars built by Ford in Japan. With the current trend of Asian countries in considerartion, MS is just another foreign corporation with no understanding of the Chinese business.

I wonder how this will fare for Red Flag Linux (English)? Nothing like a government-sponsored monopoly to cut into profits...

I wonder how this will fare for Red Flag Linux (English)? Nothing like a government-sponsored monopoly to cut into profits...

So with Sun's JDS sold in China and not to mention red flag linux -- naturally owned by the king's son -- all over the desktops of an extremely populous nation, and now according to the original slashdot posting, Israel and so forth, worldwide Microsoft is going to take a big hit.


I've also heard rumors that 75 percent of servers are running Microsoft. (I'd guess this is due to the "ease of administration"... probably can pay their admins a lot less.)

My guess is, once the desktop market gets chipped in to, the server market will also get hit since more capable admins will be easier to find (Since those on the bell curve who tend to be admins will become more familiar with linux.)

Thoughts?

Anyway, I always figured some day a tech company whose "technology" is only marketing would eventually fail, but it will still take years and years.

That's what made me laugh. A government is going to buy an OS "subsidized and supported by organizations that may not have U.S. or other government interests at heart". The Defense Department is going to by alQaedix (or even RedFlag Linux) because it's cheap? Has this troll never heard of, say the NSA's Security-Enhanced Linux?

Anyway, he omits that subversion of an OS could almost as easily be done in any closed source software, especially with the trend to subcontract and outsource.

Does anybody know how much involvement the Chinese Government has with Red Flag? It seems to me that the principles of open source software sit uneasily with censorship.

That's the world that many Asian IT companies and deparments live in.

Just think about that for a minute, and imagine how it would turn your world upside down: People are cheap - servers are expensive.

In this environment, stuff like Linux makes even more sense than it does in "the west".

People like TurboLinux and Red Flag Linux are all over this opportunity here in China and elsewhere in the region.

Yep.

What, isn't Red Flag a cute enough Communist pun for ya?

An article on CNet news.com suggests that "Open Source" is catching on in China.

Now, how many people live in China? Computerworld has an article on how Red Flag GNU/Linux which I think is widely used in China, is now going international.

A majority of people might be stupid for a short period of time, but I don't think the majority of people will be stupid in the majority of time, at least not when it comes to wasting money for nothing. Now I know that some will argue that you get some value from Windows, I wont deny that, if they think they get value, they *get* value, either imagined value, real value or both. My point being that whatever you can do with any commercial program, you can do with (potential) free software, and you can do it freely!

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