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1. Save $500 bucks and use it for something else
2. Spend the other $500 bucks on more drive space

More than two-thirds of equipment that is "recycled" still gets shipped overseas. The good news? some overseas processors are cleaning up their act, but it is the exception, not the rule. Computer donations are a huge business, btw. Some equipment goes to schools, like CRC http://www.crc.org/ and http://www.pcsforschools.org/, others just do the biz, like Intechra/Retrobox http://www.retrobox.com/. Some people talk about this on blogs http://www.ewasteinsights.info/

Interesting. I hadn't paid much attention to it (can you tell?) other than getting it working and being pleased with its performance.

I guess I'm a little unclear as to the real difference between a "2D" and "3D" card anymore, then. The Quadro4 is advertised as being for 2D work, particularly CAD and graphics stuff: although now that I'm rereading the sales blurbs, it says "optimized for 2D performance..." So I guess that just means that it does do some hardware 3D acelleration, just not much, because it's optimized for precision rather than throughput?

I once read something that said that some cards implement more of the OpenGL instruction set than others do, but I can't find any substantiation of this. Just makes me more interested in seeing a real comparison sometime that included some of the [advertised as] "2D" cards compared to the [advertised as] "3D" cards, for non-gaming and graphics use.

There must be some advantage, otherwise why do products like the newer Quadro4s or Wildcats? Somebody must think that they're superior.

As to Retrobox, their stock fluctuates pretty dramatically. Some weeks they might be just chock full of workstations and servers, other times it can be pretty dismal. The machine that I got was a single-proc (P4) HP xw5000, which is certified as being RHEL-certified. That was actually why I bought it versus something else; at least I knew the hardware wouldn't be too Linux-unfriendly. With 512MB, a 40GB drive and the video card, I think it was around $280. (This was almost a year ago.) I've also heard that they sometimes have really good deals on pizzabox servers, but I've never come up with a good reason to buy one.

If you can deal with not having much of a warranty (or a Windows OEM license) and don't mind waiting a little while to get your system (they refurbish stuff after you order it, apparently, so be prepared to wait two weeks in some cases), you can sometimes get some nice deals.

Unfortunately, the inventory-search part of their web site is down today.
http://www.retrobox.com/rbwww/home/search_menu.asp

At least that I can tell (correct me if I'm wrong) as a regular end-user, who's only looking to purchase a single unit, you can't even get the bare hard drive model. It seems like on their website, that it only comes with Windows XP.

It's only people looking to buy in quantity (although they say small accounts are acceptable, I think they mean "no individuals") who can get the ones designed to use Linux, with a bare HD and assumedly some small discount for not taking the MSFT license.

All in all, pretty crappy.

I think if you really want to get a bare laptop without an OS, your best bet is to get one from Retrobox or similar, as a used model. They're all sold bare, because most of them come from corporations that had site licenses and can't sell an individual OS license when they liquidate the physical asset of the machine. I guess you could argue that there is always some "Microsoft tax" built into the price of any used machine that previously came with Windows, regardless of its current configuration, but at least you don't actually have to feel like you're buying it. If that's important to you.

I agree, buy used. A while back I spent about $75 for a used HP Laserjet 4+ with a 10mbps ethernet adaptor in it and it even came with a toner cartridge. So far, a few thousand trouble free pages out of it, and I haven't even had to replace the already used toner cartridge I got with it (though it has be getting low by now). A Laserjet 5 series will probably run you about $150 or more, but is still a good deal if it can do what you want it to do.

A good place to look is someplace that deals with retired office equipment, such as RetroBox - though I suggest trying to find a local source, as old Laserjets are built like tanks and shipping them can get very expensive.

As long as we're talking about sources for used systems, I'd like to plug Retrobox, who despite their obnoxious use of Javascript on their website, sell refurbished computers -- sometimes very nice ones -- for very reasonable prices.

I picked up a HP P4-based xw5000 "Workstation" (certified to run RHEL) with a dual-head NVidia Quadro4 NVS graphics card about six months ago for $280. Works great; use it every day. Sure, in the winter it also serves as a space heater, but it does what it's supposed to do.

Right now they have desktop PCs from $9 (for a Compaq Deskpro, 266MHz Celeron and 6.4GB HD) to $280 (an HP Pavilion P4 2.8GHz, 500MB RAM, 80GB HD). They also sell laptops and servers.

My experience with them was very positive -- the only catch is that they actually refurbish the machine AFTER you order it, so be prepared for a delay before it ships. Like, at least a week or so before it goes out their door. However, in return you get a unit that's cosmetically nice (at least mine was), has a clean drive, and is well packed. Drop your favorite *NIX on it, and away you go.

At least for most people with jobs, computers are now something that you get to decide how many you want, rather than how many you can afford / whether you can afford.

As long as we're talking about sources for used systems, I'd like to plug Retrobox, who despite their obnoxious use of Javascript on their website, sell refurbished computers -- sometimes very nice ones -- for very reasonable prices.

I picked up a HP P4-based xw5000 "Workstation" (certified to run RHEL) with a dual-head NVidia Quadro4 NVS graphics card about six months ago for $280. Works great; use it every day. Sure, in the winter it also serves as a space heater, but it does what it's supposed to do.

Right now they have desktop PCs from $9 (for a Compaq Deskpro, 266MHz Celeron and 6.4GB HD) to $280 (an HP Pavilion P4 2.8GHz, 500MB RAM, 80GB HD). They also sell laptops and servers.

My experience with them was very positive -- the only catch is that they actually refurbish the machine AFTER you order it, so be prepared for a delay before it ships. Like, at least a week or so before it goes out their door. However, in return you get a unit that's cosmetically nice (at least mine was), has a clean drive, and is well packed. Drop your favorite *NIX on it, and away you go.

At least for most people with jobs, computers are now something that you get to decide how many you want, rather than how many you can afford / whether you can afford.

As long as we're talking about sources for used systems, I'd like to plug Retrobox, who despite their obnoxious use of Javascript on their website, sell refurbished computers -- sometimes very nice ones -- for very reasonable prices.

I picked up a HP P4-based xw5000 "Workstation" (certified to run RHEL) with a dual-head NVidia Quadro4 NVS graphics card about six months ago for $280. Works great; use it every day. Sure, in the winter it also serves as a space heater, but it does what it's supposed to do.

Right now they have desktop PCs from $9 (for a Compaq Deskpro, 266MHz Celeron and 6.4GB HD) to $280 (an HP Pavilion P4 2.8GHz, 500MB RAM, 80GB HD). They also sell laptops and servers.

My experience with them was very positive -- the only catch is that they actually refurbish the machine AFTER you order it, so be prepared for a delay before it ships. Like, at least a week or so before it goes out their door. However, in return you get a unit that's cosmetically nice (at least mine was), has a clean drive, and is well packed. Drop your favorite *NIX on it, and away you go.

At least for most people with jobs, computers are now something that you get to decide how many you want, rather than how many you can afford / whether you can afford.

Just in case anyone else was curious, here is there price list in USD (they are a Swiss outfit):

http://www.pcengines.ch/order1.php?c=4

Short version:
2 LAN / 2 miniPCI / 128MB = $130
3 LAN / 1 miniPCI / 128MB = $136
1 LAN / 2 miniPCI / 64 MB = $115
1 LAN / 2 miniPCI / 128MB = $122

Not bad, actually. Although if you have the space, you can get a surplus 1U rackmount server for not much more than that, as I recently found out.

You may want to try here.

My first thought was, "When their rich uncle gets out of the poor farm." But I've actually been considering a used laptop from RetroBox -- they dispose of corporate assets and have laptops starting under $50 -- though you'll have to get over $100 before you can get anything over 300 MHz and 128 MB.

Of course, all you bargain hunters will now swoop in and grab them... where's that "back" button?

Check out retrobox. I've seen several managed cisco routers going for cheap. Usually 10mb, but hey if it's only for educational use.

I've had good luck with RetroBox.com. I've ordered a pair of Ultra 1 machines, at $75 each. They also have PC's of various vintages, and Macs and network equipment (routers, switches, etc.)

Places that are selling 300MHz G3's for $150-$200 are ripping you off. Thirty seconds on google found a Power Mac G3 266MHz with 448 MB RAM for a mere $50.00 http://www.retrobox.com/rbwww/home/unit_view.asp?i d=1048890&bin_id=world. It is not 300MHz but it is close enough.

Okay, suppose you work for IngSoc, and you really can't risk it, but you really, really want to surf the light fantastic. Get yourself a cheap-ass laptop (try retro box or ebay), get a t-mobile card and their cellular service (about $30/month, but it is all yours), and you're golden.

So, wait... what does Craiglist prove again? That old Macs are cheap or that they have a great resale value? Your post seems to suggest both. :)


I think he means to say that Macs are expensive, and if you can get a machine that can run OSX 10.3 for only $450 your doing pretty good.

For comparison, I can go to Retrobox and buy a used IBM P4 2.0Ghz with a 40GB drive and 512MB of ram for $329. Now that's cheap computing.

http://www.retrobox.com/ These guys sell great pc's (rebuilt and tested before selling to you) for dirt. $75.00 gets you a PIII-500, 128MB Ram, 6.4Gb hard drive, Sound, 8MB Video, CD-Rom, and Network card.

Ah yes. It's totally not worth it. Nobody could possibly make it into a business

If you're open to buying a used machine, take a look at Retrobox. Sure, they aren't going to be top-of-the-line, but my PIII running Slack 10 does everything I need.

I picked up an HP Vectra running at 133 MHz (a K6 PR 166) with 64 MB RAM, 1.7 G HD, and 3com NIC for $10. I installed ClarkConnect on it and an additional NIC and stuck it behind a dresser with the cable modem. That ran great for about 6 months, then I put an 80 GB drive in. I now run it in just about exactly the same config as you describe. I store all my pics and SHN's on it, run Samba and Apache and it is my home share, webserver, etc. I have nery had any issues with it, and power consumption was not a particular problem.

I also like the Vectra's because the case is somewhat slim (3"? about 3U?). They can be had cheap here: http://www.retrobox.com

retrobox.

I used this site to replace my father-in-law's old 486 with a pentium, cost about $40. Pretty sure the power consumption will be less than a standard p4, but probably not as low as a modified appliance.

retrobox.com has a fantastic selection as well - the HP Omnibook 6000 I'm typing this on, a PII700 w/384 meg ram, came from there(just over $300)
clicky clicky

Either way, you could sell the windows box to subsidize the replacement plan and save a buttload of money.

If only it were that simple. When my company was still owned by its founder, there was an annual sale of old equipment to employees. It was so popular, they had to institute a lottery system to determine who got first dibs. Lots of fun.

When we got bought by $PUBLICALLY_TRADED_CORPORATION, the equipment sale was the first thing to go, closely followed by the annual company picnic. Seems it's easier to just throw it away (or hire someone to get rid of it) than to make it available to your employees.

Lockheed, of course, has the additional problem of being a defense contractor. You can't even make a photocopy without running blank pages after, to eliminate ghost images from the toner roller. No way are they going to put their spare PCs in the company garage sale.

Since $3,000+ is a bit outside my range (my range being closer my $35 PII Linux box), I naturally checked out the Emperor Linux Jobs Page to see if I could suppliment my income. What a blast from the pre-bust past, mixed with a bit of post-bust reality:

Work at EmperorLinux: the most fun you can have with ...

EmperorLinux is not actively hiring.

However, we are always on the lookout for fun and knowledgeable people who like things Linux. If you like to:
ride your bike to work,
hike in the mountains,
recompile your kernel weekly,
drink Mountain Dew with extra sugar,
play in the dirt with your hands,
make fun and informative web pages,
use the "taste test" when debugging circuits,
run with scissors barefoot in the rain,
or anything similarly off-center,

send us an interesting mail telling us why you think we would like you.

I've done nearly all of those things, if you can substitute "hand-code Z80 machine code" for "recompile your kernel". But I think I'll stick with my boring but very stable job coding VB in the tax accounting business. I'll have time to lick random circuitry when I retire.

So log onto ebay and get an old laptop for two or three hundred. Look for the good brands, IBM, Apple, Toshiba, and plan on buying a replacement battery. Then get a good 502.11g card for it. Use the os you wish, you can probably get knoppix running really fast, although windos 98se is ubiquitous and easy to set up. (please! no flame wars!)

Better than eBay, I'd suggest RetroBox. I bought a $35 Compaq PII from them to try out Knoppix. The only problem I've had is that I can't get the sound card to work, and that's only 'cause I've been too lazy to open the hood and see what's going on.

Their current selection ranges from a P4 Thinkpad (latch broken) for $892, down to an HP PII for $98. When I first heard about them (on Slashdot, of course), they had laptops down in the $70s. YMMV.

And if you really need Windows, they'll install WinExPee for $109 extra (the price of four of their lowest-priced PII desktops).

So log onto ebay and get an old laptop for two or three hundred. Look for the good brands, IBM, Apple, Toshiba, and plan on buying a replacement battery. Then get a good 502.11g card for it. Use the os you wish, you can probably get knoppix running really fast, although windos 98se is ubiquitous and easy to set up. (please! no flame wars!)

Better than eBay, I'd suggest RetroBox. I bought a $35 Compaq PII from them to try out Knoppix. The only problem I've had is that I can't get the sound card to work, and that's only 'cause I've been too lazy to open the hood and see what's going on.

Their current selection ranges from a P4 Thinkpad (latch broken) for $892, down to an HP PII for $98. When I first heard about them (on Slashdot, of course), they had laptops down in the $70s. YMMV.

And if you really need Windows, they'll install WinExPee for $109 extra (the price of four of their lowest-priced PII desktops).

So log onto ebay and get an old laptop for two or three hundred. Look for the good brands, IBM, Apple, Toshiba, and plan on buying a replacement battery. Then get a good 502.11g card for it. Use the os you wish, you can probably get knoppix running really fast, although windos 98se is ubiquitous and easy to set up. (please! no flame wars!)

Better than eBay, I'd suggest RetroBox. I bought a $35 Compaq PII from them to try out Knoppix. The only problem I've had is that I can't get the sound card to work, and that's only 'cause I've been too lazy to open the hood and see what's going on.

Their current selection ranges from a P4 Thinkpad (latch broken) for $892, down to an HP PII for $98. When I first heard about them (on Slashdot, of course), they had laptops down in the $70s. YMMV.

And if you really need Windows, they'll install WinExPee for $109 extra (the price of four of their lowest-priced PII desktops).

So log onto ebay and get an old laptop for two or three hundred. Look for the good brands, IBM, Apple, Toshiba, and plan on buying a replacement battery. Then get a good 502.11g card for it. Use the os you wish, you can probably get knoppix running really fast, although windos 98se is ubiquitous and easy to set up. (please! no flame wars!)

Better than eBay, I'd suggest RetroBox. I bought a $35 Compaq PII from them to try out Knoppix. The only problem I've had is that I can't get the sound card to work, and that's only 'cause I've been too lazy to open the hood and see what's going on.

Their current selection ranges from a P4 Thinkpad (latch broken) for $892, down to an HP PII for $98. When I first heard about them (on Slashdot, of course), they had laptops down in the $70s. YMMV.

And if you really need Windows, they'll install WinExPee for $109 extra (the price of four of their lowest-priced PII desktops).

Here's another source for servers.

I'm thinking of starting a PC recycling business because most trashed PCs these days are still acceptable performers. I'll take all these PCs, install Linux and then donate them to churches and schools. Brilliant!

Retrobox

Guess what? They do.
You can pick up a PII-450 and a 17" monitor for about a hundred bucks plus shipping.

The book's cover claims the target audience as intermediate to advanced users, but I think that beginner to intermediate would be more accurate. More advanced users may find Linux Power Tools a little beneath their level.

I think this might be considered fair marketing. If you're using Linux, you're probably not a "beginner" -- you've probably an expert on other OS's and have decided to take the next step.

I just got a $35 PII and installed Knoppix 3.3. It's my first Linux box after 15+ years in the DOS/Windows world, and I'm finding out just how little I know. But I can at least make some educated guesses about "hda5" and "eth0", and when the screen displays 4 penguins instead of 1 I know that it's a screen resolution problem, not a "it doesn't work" problem.

So I'm not sure there's such a thing as a "Linux Beginner"... at least not until Wal-Mart's Lindows PCs outsell the Windows/AOL equipped models. Those buyers are the true "beginners".

So far, the best thing I've gotten from the article is the link to RetroBox.com, an outfit that buys old equipment from companies, wipes the HD, and resells them.

My company used to have an annual old equipment sale for employees. It was so popular, you actually had a lottery drawing for line position -- like a rock concert. But when we got bought by the Faceless International Corporation Ltd, that was just one of the personal touches we lost.

Hard to beat a $70 laptop... even if it does have a dark spot on the screen!

So far, the best thing I've gotten from the article is the link to RetroBox.com, an outfit that buys old equipment from companies, wipes the HD, and resells them.

My company used to have an annual old equipment sale for employees. It was so popular, you actually had a lottery drawing for line position -- like a rock concert. But when we got bought by the Faceless International Corporation Ltd, that was just one of the personal touches we lost.

Hard to beat a $70 laptop... even if it does have a dark spot on the screen!

... the article with links...

New Startup Secret: Dumpster Diving - Rafe Needleman

Last week I covered Roku, the high-end digital media player for HDTV buyers with money to burn. Roku was founded and financed by Anthony Wood, who made out well when he sold ReplayTV to SonicBlue. He's a rich guy selling gizmos to other rich guys, but not all startups have Anthony's resources. Here is a success story from one resource-challenged startup. Wallflower, which is also in the digital photograph display business, managed to get itself off the ground with a strategy I've seen only once before: dumpster diving.

The company makes (expensive) digital picture frames that compete with Ceiva, Digiframe, and Pacific Digital. Nothing special there. But Wallflower's startup plan was based around building its high-end products with pieces from recycled computers. To get started, Wallflower founders Mitch Kahn and Gordon Clyne bought 150 old but unused laptops from liquidators and via eBay, for $25 to $150 each. They were obsolete as workstations (most had 133MHz CPUs and smallish hard drives) but had the right pieces to make nice picture framesmost importantly, working 12" LCD panels.

Mitch and Gordon's small team disassembled the machines, mounted the displays in handmade wood frames with the motherboard and hard disk, and added Wi-Fi and their own Linux-based software. Basically, the Wallflower displays are Web servers that appear on a Windows desktop as disk drivesyou put one on your network and you can just drag pictures onto it, and call up its internal home page to manage its settings. Now you have a nice big electronic photo frame to show your digital pictures, and changing the display is as easy as typing a URL into your home computer.

Frankly I can't see spending $500 for one of these thingsbut what do I know? Shortly after Forbes ran an article about the product, Wallflower sold out of its inventory of Frankensteined picture frames. Left with nice cashflow from its rising order volume, and needing more certainty in its supply chain than Weird Stuff Warehouse could provide, Wallflower recently gave up on the whole recycled kick and started buying components from manufacturers, the way most computer companies do.

With the new manufacturing strategy, the company is able to offer more features and bigger screens, but it had to raise its prices since these components are more expensive. Although I imagine they save a fortune in assembly costs, since they no longer have to dismantle laptops to get their parts.

There is a thriving economy in the leftover computer business. Another company in this space, RetroBox, makes money coming and going. First of all, they take in used computers from businesses that no longer need of them, and carefully scrub the hard disks clean of datacompanies are so worried that old machines will get out into the world with sensitive data on them that they'll pay nicely for this service. Then, of course, RetroBox is free to re-sell the scrubbed hardware to new users or to re-builders like Wallflower.

But back to Wallflower. I love this story, since it combines the identification of an unusual but growing market space (digital picture frames) with the extremely clever, low-cost startup strategy of making its first products from unloved, unsold, obsolete technology. The founders knew full well that strategy wouldn't scale if they became successful, and they were able to switch to more ordinary production methods when they did, about one-and-a-half years ahead of plan.

As I said earlier, this manufacturing model isn't completely new: In 2000, startup Scout Electromedia released the Modo, a pager-like

Retrobox is a site that specializes in selling used equipment. Their prices are pretty good in general and sometimes you can find some really great deals.

P.S. Click on the "Search" icon.

http://www.retrobox.com/