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So, one of these:

http://www.retrousb.com/produc...

3x the price of the Classic and you have to supply the controllers and games.

I'm considering buying both..

Let me provide some concrete examples, as I promised: If you have a free video player (such as VLC) installed, you are possessing software that infringes codec patents in Slashdot's home country, and you are possessing a tool to circumvent DVD copy protection. If you have a console emulator (such as FCEUX) or the driver for a cartridge writer (such as Kazzo from Infinite NES Lives) installed, you may have accessed a ROM site or distributed an unauthorized mod, and you may be circumventing the console's copy protection. Even if you have evidence that your installation is used for lawful purposes, such as developing new original games, you may not have the money to hire a lawyer to present your side of the case to a judge.

Retrode is discontinued

https://www.dragonbox.de/en/63... disagrees with you. And there are others for copying/using NES-cartridges, like e.g. http://www.retrousb.com/produc...

No, actually, it doesn't. You could, for example, use a device like this as a system debugger. And Nintendo's problem is that you "have" to use a copied ROM for emulation, which is also incorrect, as you can play games directly from the ROM.

Not all games are FPSes and some are actually better controlled with a joypad.

I don't see how this is a plus for consoles over PC, given that Xbox 360 wired controllers work out of the box with PCs and there are PC adapters for classic joypads.

I have no interest in pushing everything to the limit.

PC can serve this as well, as integrated graphics on Intel's Haswell CPUs has surpassed previous-generation (PS3) console graphics.

The PC will never die - someone somewhere needs to code the applications for the tablets

And if you have such a hot idea for a tablet application, you can afford the $2,000 that workstation makers will charge once the economies of scale of home and office PCs evaporate.

and then there are the PC gamers, who will never go away

Even if they don't go away, they can still become commercially insignificant. NES gamers haven't gone away, and there are still new NES games for sale, but I'd bet they're a drop in the bucket compared to even OUYA.

Adding a $9 USB gamepad and a USB OTG cable can immensely improve the tablet gaming experience.

I've used a USB OTG cable to connect a controller to my Nexus 7. But this runs into a few problems in practice. Solve all these problems and I'll agree with you.

First, it might work for tablets if you already have a stand, but can you recommend something to hold a phone in place while the user is holding the controller? The Shield has a hinge to hold the screen in place, much like the Game Boy Advance SP. It's like the difference between a laptop and a tablet with a separate keyboard, and an integrated keyboard dock is one of the big selling points of the Transformer and the Surface.

Second, a lot of cheap USB gamepads that I've tried have a D-pad that makes it way too easy to press diagonally, causing the character to crouch into a roll (Down) or jump (Up) when I'm trying to make him go straight. I've found that Nintendo and PlayStation 1 controllers have decent directional pads, but then I'd need to buy and carry two adapters: one to USB and one to OTG.

Last but not least, the game needs to support a controller, and I haven't been able to find an option in Google Play Store to narrow to controller-friendly titles. The fact that not everybody already owns an appropriate controller, adapter, and clamp tends to discourage some developers from porting controller-friendly titles to Android in the first place because who wants to pay tens of dollars for a gamepad, cable, clamp, and shipping to play a $3 title?

You won't build a $400 gaming PC that is a) quite and b) as fast as a current gen game console.

Acer makes the Aspire X series of compact PCs that are roughly the size of the original Xbox 360, and anything with an AMD CPU will come with an integrated graphics processor capable of gaming. I have one, and it's been far less noisy than my cousin's original Xbox 360.

It's hell to set up anything else because there's no standard for button numbering.

I'm aware of this, and I've been doing a bit of research toward this. A PC game developer's best bet is to find the most common controllers among users, possibly using some counterpart to Microsoft's Customer Experience Improvement Program, and bundle working presets for those controllers with the game. These would include at least the Gravis/Logitech layout and the Xbox 360 layout.

I've pushed button 1 on my controller and had it show up as button 3 in game.

Then you played defective games. A game seeing a particular brand of controller for the first time should show a list of buttons to press in order. Once the player has pressed Up, Down, Left, Right, Jump, Fire, Special, and Pause, the configuration for that controller is saved. Someone using a Genesis RetroPort, for example, would take eight seconds to press Up, Down, Left, Right, C, B, A, and Start, and that hurdle is surpassed on that machine.

The last GBA game was Final Fantasy IV Advanced, released 2006. So about 5 years, give or take.

You're referring to what some have called "lame duck" games and what others have called the daddy system. Games compatible with old PCs are still being released, just as PS1 games continued to come out during the first several years of the PS2 and PS2 games continued to come out during the first several years of the PS3. So I call this a wash.

PC games in genres designed for controllers (for example, platformers and fighters, not FPS/RTS) tend to work well with an Xbox 360 controller, a retro console controller through an adapter, or any other USB gamepad. Web browser games (HTML5 and Flash) are an exception because those frameworks don't support controllers, but most keyboard-centric browser games work great with a joystick-to-keyboard driver. Or are you complaining that major-label games in genres designed for controllers tend not to end up ported to PC in the first place?

That's a project I've been investigating the feasibility of recently, using a microcontroller or FPGA to emulate cartridges for use with real console hardware.

For the NES, this has already been done. You're correct that for the SNES, coprocessors would make it a more difficult proposition.

you can't develop on a NES either.

But one could develop on a Famicom, the Japanese version of the NES, using the Family BASIC cassette. The main thing keeping Family BASIC from running on an NES is the lack of an NES version of the alphanumeric keyboard. And now with the PowerPak ($135 one-time, not recurring), anyone can develop NES software using Free tools on any Mac, Windows PC, or Linux PC that has a CompactFlash card writer, even a lowly netbook like mine.

100 bucks gets you dev environments(testing+publishing rights) for the locked platforms nowadays

Not for PS3 or Wii, not for Xbox 360 in countries without Xbox Live Indie Games, not for longer than twelve months, and not for iOS once Apple stops making versions of Xcode compatible with your slightly older Mac (see last week's story about Mountain Lion dropping support for four-year-old Macs).

...meaning opensource games are 13 years in the past.

Like that's stopped anyone. People are still making and selling new software for the Nintendo Entertainment System, a hardware platform twice that old.

I thought one could already use Super NES controllers with any USB host supporting HID through this adapter, and I thought one could already use Super NES Game Paks with any USB host supporting Mass Storage through this adapter.

Also, I just checked and at my local pawn shop, an actual SNES system costs less than a raspberry pi unit lol.

I thought one could already use Super NES controllers with any USB host supporting HID through this adapter, and I thought one could already use Super NES Game Paks with any USB host supporting Mass Storage through this adapter.

Just because the screen (if you have a laptop [aka can use the computer anywhere near your sofa] and the AppleTV box) can be wirelessly mirrored to the TV?

Yes. One of the big differences between consoles and PCs is that consoles are more often connected to a monitor big enough to fit multiple players around, that is, a living room TV. I acknowledge that this doesn't help FPS or RTS, genres that work better over the Internet because they depend on hiding information from other players. But it makes games in gamepad-oriented, console-heavy genres, such as fighting games and party games, far more comfortable to play than if everyone has to crowd around an iMac (especially a smaller one) or the monitor of a Mac mini.

And using hypothetical controllers that don't exist?

USB HID gamepads have been available for PCs and Macs since around 1999 from companies such as Gravis and Logitech. For almost as long there have been adapters to use old consoles' controllers as HIDs. Nintendo and Sony even make Bluetooth gamepads for which hobbyists have developed drivers for various kinds of computers.

I still play 8-bit video games, and the memory card adapter I use to play them has an 8-bit OS.

I run Win7 at work because I have to, Win7 on the "family" computer because that's where the games are

I don't need to run Windows 7 on my family computer just to play games. I have a PowerPak.

Here is an option for some of those systems:
* SNES flash cart $145
* NES flash cart $135

The only fanless emulation I've experienced was a fully cracked PSP with:
* PSP2600 1.2.0 (atari 2600)
* SMSPlus 1.2.55 (GG, SMS)
* Masterboy V2.10 (GB, GBC, GG, SMS)
* Nester J 1.12 (NES)
* picodrive 1.35b R (Megadrive/Genesis)
* Snes9x Euphoria R2 (SNES)
* gpSP Kai 3.4 test 3 (GBA)

And with an 8GB SDHC + Memory Stick Pro Duo adapter, you can fit one copy of EVERY GAME ever made for all of those systems (except the GBA collection, which is quite large).

Here is an option for some of those systems:
* SNES flash cart $145
* NES flash cart $135

The only fanless emulation I've experienced was a fully cracked PSP with:
* PSP2600 1.2.0 (atari 2600)
* SMSPlus 1.2.55 (GG, SMS)
* Masterboy V2.10 (GB, GBC, GG, SMS)
* Nester J 1.12 (NES)
* picodrive 1.35b R (Megadrive/Genesis)
* Snes9x Euphoria R2 (SNES)
* gpSP Kai 3.4 test 3 (GBA)

And with an 8GB SDHC + Memory Stick Pro Duo adapter, you can fit one copy of EVERY GAME ever made for all of those systems (except the GBA collection, which is quite large).

old games just fucking ROCK on a big TV

LCD HDTVs have VGA and HDMI inputs. Every PC since 1987 has had a VGA output or a DVI-I output that is electrically compatible with VGA, and many have an HDMI output or a DVI-D output that is electrically compatible with HDMI.

a controller in your hand

Every PC since 1999 has had an input for USB game controllers. Xbox 360 controllers work, as do old console controllers through an adapter.

The hardest part of legal emulation is soldering together the device needed to copy your cartridges into the computer to play them.

But I assume [that by "home theater PC"] you mean actually having it connected to the TV.

Exactly. A cheap desktop PC in a small case with non-Intel graphics is common; such a computer connected to a TV is not common enough for the major PC game developers to take notice. To put it another way, a PC connected to a monitor big enough for three to four people is an outlier.

I have about thirty years of console games available to my PC

That's fine for the few people who can solder together a dumper for their thirty years of cartridges. But not everyone is willing to solder, and the only NES dumper is an expansion board that needs to be soldered into a working NES anyway. (Nor do I want to publicly recommend breaking the law.)

It's fine for the few times it happens.

I guess the opportunity for local multiplayer happens more often in some families than in others.

Of course you can use your C64 joysticks and Sega Genesis gamepads with this Commodore PC.

Of course you can use your C64 joysticks and Sega Genesis gamepads with this Commodore PC.

There is no need for special "licensed ROMs" when you can just buy off-the-shelf games.

What off-the-shelf games are made for Pandora?

I don't know what sorts of media the Pandora natively reads.

SD cards containing Debian ARM packages.

US copyright law title 17 section 117

I'm aware of this. Buying used game cartridges for Sega Genesis and Super NES and dumping them with a Retrode adapter works. But I can't think of a lot of other consoles for which an easy-to-use cart copier exists. For example, what copier do you recommend for NES games, other than one that the end user must solder into an authentic NES?

Furthermore, relying on emulators limits the player to only those games that fit into the technical capabilities of the emulated systems. The Pandora hardware has the same chipset as a Motorola Droid and is supposed to be at least as powerful as a PS2 when running native software, except emulation is stuck at roughly the PlayStation generation. Both the Pandora and the PSP can emulate the PS1, but the PSP also has native games that never appeared on the PS1. What's the Pandora counterpart to Me and My Katamari? Or GTA series?

I can't believe that nobody has mentioned the USB kits for classic controllers sold by RetroZone. http://www.retrousb.com/

I'm mainly going for 2600

Then plug your 2600 joystick into a USB port.

I'd like to see you gaming with the guys

I agree with you that a keyboard is suboptimal for this, but plenty of other Slashdot users have recommended a LAN party for "gaming with the guys".

Oh, be still my heart; someone has mentioned Stella on Slashdot :) For development and testing in Stella (as the main developer and maintainer), I tend to use the following:

1. 1) RetroZone SNES adaptor with a genuine SNES controller: http://www.retrousb.com/index.php?cPath=21&osCsid=4cb4c37fdb37abf33bab1d89cecaa79e
2. 2) Stelladaptor with various genuine Atari controllers, such as joystick, paddles, etc: http://www.stelladaptor.com/
3. 3) USB Atari joysticks: http://www.legacyengineer.com/store.html

Under the law of Slashdot's home country, downloading games from the Internet is copyright infringement ( UMG v. MP3.com ), but dumping your own is not (17 USC 117(a)(1)). With PlayStation, if you own the authentic game disc and a PC with a CD drive, you can dump the game to an ISO. With Super NES and Genesis, if you own the Game Pak and a Retrode cartridge reader, you can dump the game to a ROM. NES is far more difficult, as the copier comes as a kit soldered into the NES, but there are also some freeware games for the NES, such as my own LJ65.

Besides, you're going to have a PC anyway--might as well spend an extra $100-$200 to make it games-capable

The problem is if you want to hook the PC up to a TV, you may need a second PC.

The back catalog of PC games is huge, too

True, but a lot of the old PC games won't run on anything but MS-DOS or Windows 9x. But you're right that GOG, DOSBox, and ScummVM can run a lot of the PC classics.

and even bigger if you use it to catch up on all the console games you missed the first time around.

Sure, you can emulate Genesis and Super NES by dumping your carts with a Retrode adapter. But it's a lot harder to dump NES carts; currently, you need to take a working front-loading NES, desolder the CPU, and solder in a shim board. (Don't recommend downloading; UMG v. MP3.com.)

About the only thing it can't do is satisfy social (i.e. in person) multiplayer

As far as I can tell, that's a software issue; PCs support Xbox 360 gamepads, and most new TVs have a PC input. So in your humble opinion, is there a market for PC games that support in-person multiplayer?

NES and SNES adapters for Wii

Apart from the Nintendo DS and PlayStation 2, older machines don't have any commercial developers to complain about them. There aren't any new SKUs for the GBA, the original Xbox, the GameCube, or any pre-PS2 system, unless you count the few games sold by homebrewers.

Yes and no.

For example, if I have access to old Super Nintendo titles, I might be less likely to buy remakes of those same titles for Virtual Console.

Furthermore, I'm sure there will be arguments that the time I spend playing old games means less time that I have for playing new games, which means I'm less likely to purchase a new game. (In reality, I would probably purchase a new game that looked really good or a remake that had significant value over just replaying the original, but if I just wanted a *different* game to play, I would have the option of used games, too.)

There's no Steam for the Nintendo DS. (as an example)

The Nintendo DSi has the functionally equivalent DSiWare.

While Sony and Nintendo are slowly moving towards more and more DLC and downloaded games, they don't come with manuals or boxes

You're right that they don't come with boxes, but all WiiWare and Virtual Console games that I've tried have an instruction manual under the Home menu.

The "downloadable" option isn't available for older machines - the heart of the used market

Apart from the Nintendo DS and PlayStation 2, older machines don't have any commercial developers to complain about them. There aren't any new SKUs for the GBA, the original Xbox, the GameCube, or any pre-PS2 system, unless you count the few games sold by homebrewers.

retrousb will sell you a cartridge of just about any homebrew ROM you can give them if it one of the mappers they are currently manufacturing. Else you'll have to use the PowerPak which can load ROMs off compactflash and simulate the proper mapper in an FPGA.

There are a dozen or so homebrew cartridges on the RetroZone site already. And new ones show up every month or so.

I wait until at least two conditions are met:

1. I must be able to play pirated games as easy or easier than the "originals".
2. Console must cost less than 200 Euros.

Have you bought your Nintendo Entertainment System and PowerPak yet?

Less than 75 Euros for portable consoles which also must play videos and music from SD cards.

The PowerPak can play NSF music from CF cards. There are several programs for composing NSF music, including MCK, NerdTracker II, and FamiTracker.

ONCE, and only ONCE these two conditions are met - there has to be a particular game that would make me want to buy the console.
For PS2 that was Berserk - which is still not out in US or Europe.

A spiritual sequel to Berzerk, called Smash TV, was ported to the NES.

A travesty, sir, that the Neo Geo is not listed among those.

It would be cool if they hit up places like RetroZone (Full disclosure: run by a friend of an acquaintance) for added retro kick.

It would be cool to see those old NES time-based coin-op machines, too... the ones with a bunch of games loaded up, and every quarter equaled a few minutes of playtime. It turned non-arcade games into arcade games instantly.

Emulators are the way to go. I set up an HTPC with emulators in the living room. Any time we're sitting around having a few pre-night out drinks we're playing Dr. Mario, Double Dragon II, Yoshi's Island or Micro Machines.

And for controllers, nothing beats the feel of the original SNES game pads. You can pick up an adapter here http://www.retrousb.com/ and some SNES controllers at a thrift store for a couple of bucks.

I actually JUST finished building a computer in an old Nintendo case. It has front USB ports, Slot loading DVD-ROM, audio/video out, and carefully placed power, network, and vga ports. I know I'm not the first person to do something like this, but it sure has been fun! I even have an ATI remote that I configured to control the Freevo menu. I also bought two SNES controllers with USB connectors from RetroZone that work great with ZSNES. The box is running Ubuntu and actually boots up pretty quick. The board is a VIA Epia 6000 Mini-ITX.

Honestly, your best bet is an emulator even though you're not interested in it. Getting the famicom cartridge, and then a famicom to nes converter cart, is quite a bit more of a hassle. For that amount you could just buy a USB NES Gamepad and just run it on the emulator, along with any other hard to find import games you might be interested in. Just a thought.

But nothing beats the ol' 8 button NES gamepad! http://www.retrousb.com/

I keep wanting to buy a kit from these guys. I'm a little reluctant to deal with "little known" online vendors. Anyone have any feedback on them?

Although I've set her up with nesticle and a generaic d-pad, it's not a Nintendo controller so she doesn't like it.

1. NESticle is SO 1998, dude. (And I'd be embarrassed to refer to it by name in front of my mother...)

There are so many better NES emus available today. My favorite is the open-source FCE Ultra.

2. If having the authentic NES controller is an important consideration, it's worth the dough to splurge for a RetroPad. They're actual NES controllers, retrofitted for USB.