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Making Sense of CPU and GPU Model Numbers?
b4dc0d3r writes "How do you make sense of the various model numbers or naming schemes for CPUs, graphics cards, and the related chipsets? All I want is something that will run Oblivion and output full 1080 video to a TV. Last time I built my own computer I just went to Pricewatch, made a few easy choices, and everything came to my door. Do I really have to research the differences among Core i5, Core 2 Duo, Pentium 4, Pentium D, Sempron, Athlon, Phenom ...? And that's just the processor. Is there a reference somewhere? In short, how do you buy a computer these days?"
Anything moderately current will do anything you want. It doesn't really matter what you choose. So set yourself a budget and buy something that fits within that. It will probably do fine.
Especially since the series numbers don't track perfectly with performance.
For instance the Core i7-870 has better performance than the Core i7-920, but the 920 uses a socket type that will be future compatible with Intel's next set of chips.
As for the video card... get a Raedeon 4790. It's about 90% of the 5850 for $200.
Also, don't forget: Lynnfield core Intel's are dual-channel for RAM and Bloomfields are tri-channel.
At the moment, because of pricepoint and such, there's no reason to get any AMD proc. A Core i5-750 is better processor for the money than any AMD proc, and if you need the extra performance of a high end AMD, a Core i7-860 is pretty much the best value proc on the market today.
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Even if you know nothing about computers you go look at benchmarks at anandtech and find the one with the biggest bar on the graph that you can reasonably afford.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
Find a (good) custom only computer store - look at their current gamer models, buy the intel version (amd if your cheap).
That way it does not matter, as there is hardly any choice when it comes to componants
I usually have to spend some time on Tom's Hardware: http://www.tomshardware.com/ That allows me to work out what I want, then I do a price comparison to find out what I can afford. It's a nuisance, and most computers nowadays don't come with a decent graphics card, so if you're a gamer, that takes even longer to research.
Try the Ars technica system guide:
http://arstechnica.com/hardware/guides/2009/10/ars-system-guide-october-2009-edition.ars
Oblivion is four years old. 1080p is not demanding for any computer.
Buy anything.
if thats all you want, go for:
PS3
or
Xbox360
In short, I'm waiting for Core i7 prices to drop. The reason is, I always like to have my computer extensible in the future, and that's hard when the socket is at the end of the line. Core 2 is probably one of those, and of i5 and i7 socket confusion, my potential money is on i7's LGA 1366. But the current models are far too expensive here (central Europe).
To answer the main question, my computer-buying habits haven't changed, I usually run a DFS from Wikipedia to find information on hardware I'd like to purchase and to compare prices I use my local meta-stores (which are of no use to you, as we live in a different country, most likely).
Ditto for CPUs: Best Gaming CPUs For The Money
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
Sharky Extreme makes good system recommendations:
http://www.sharkyextreme.com/
The PC Parts picking guide has excellent price/performance explanations... But they haven't updated things in a while (a real shame).
http://shsc.info/PCPartsPickingGuide
(note: I haven't built a system in a while)
Check out http://www.cpubenchmark.net/ and http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/ With a pinch of salt you can make a relevant decision based on those two, even if Googling around would make your decision even better. .
1. Set a budget.
2. Define the expected result. E.g. you want to run Oblivion at minimum 30fps with all details maxed out at 1920x1080.
3. Research what components will achieve the expected result.
If you don't want to do the research, then scratch all of the above and spend a ton of money to be sure it will be fast enough for your purposes.
This has not changed much in the 25+ years I've been working with computers. And it's not likely to change, computers are general purpose tools. You need to know what you will use it for and determine the performance required. Based on this you will know what components you need. This is not rocket science, but a little effort will let you save some money while getting the performance you need.
Or just go buy a console. Seriously, why is this posted on slashdot?
It's quite easy, select your brand (intel/AMD or different) and choose according how hard you'll need your raw cpupower. Don't take your selection lightly; because you'll have a second vacuum cleaner in the house (core 2 duo vs dual core). Gamer machines/video and audio production stations need more raw cpupower than a PC being used for wordprocessing and Internet.
Most CPU models are categorized by date of production. The best advice I can give you when buying a system is to not buy the newest technology for various reasons:
Maybe a better criteria: first select your mainboard closest to which you want and afterwards choose the cpu fitting on your mobo. Look around for a few suppliers to compare because the same hardware is available in many prices. OEM costs less; although could mean degredation in quality too with some brands. If you really want A-quality material; you'll pay a bit more but it'll last longer too.
Always a good advice to search your dream-machine first on the Internet for reviews; especially the bad ones where people are having trouble installing software because of driver/hardware conflicts. Research in advance to avoid problems afterwards and don't be tempted too much with promotions; mostly containing selections of materials to stay within a profitable budget....
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
there is about 1000000 websites out there that will answer this better then /.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
I usually find the advice from tech report's periodical System Guide to be very useful and relevant.
Their latest report came out a couple of weeks ago. They focus on a range of options at various price points and requirements.
sorry to attempt to answer your question and not shill Apple.
bah!*@%!
A decent graphics card costs about 70-140$ having dual DVI. Models follow up; mostly even with backwards-compatibility.
Just select one of the latest high-end (known brands like Radion) graphics adapters and you'll be set for the next few years.
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
I would not recommend buying a Mac - I bought one because that is the only way to develop for the iPhone/iPod Touch (still haven't gotten around too it). It is true Mac offers little options. Some Mac junkies like to argue that you get the best technology, and you get what you paid for - however, since you are on slashdot, chances are you will not like the 'dumbed-down' approach Mac OS X takes. As with desktops, the only upgrade path is buy a new Mac (unless you have a Mac Pro), limiting your opportunities to add a new video card, or maybe an additional hard drive, etc.
As for the original question, I use Newegg and tomshardware.com for all of my info, with the occasional google usage. I start with a motherboard I want, (taking note of northbridge), and look it up. I always pick Intel, they are much better bang for the buck than AMD atm. Processor wise - last time I made a computer it was all Core 2 Duo, with the option for extreme or not - much easier. But now you have i3, i5, i7 which are the lastest generation, on a LGA 1366 I believe, the i3 is the lowest tier, and i7 the hardcore enthusiast/gamer/video editor tier. I don't know anything about the models, just look for cache size and speed, those are the main specs for a processor. For the video card, I go with Nvidia because its much more compatible with linux (and FreeBSD) if you like to use their binaries vs. open source drivers. They recently changed how they do they naming, the lower 200 series, I believe are re-casts of the some of the 9xxx series.
> how do you buy a computer these days?
Every 3 years, just before the warranty expires, I sell my current Mac, get half of what I paid for it (outrageous resale value!) and then I buy the updated version of that same Mac at the Apple Store. 3 years later I do that again. They're always smaller and faster and more rugged.
I know Macs have model numbers and I know they have CPU's which also have model numbers. I don't know any of those numbers.
The numbers I am concerned with all have to do with my work, which is music and art. I'm really happy to leave the I-T numbers to Apple.
Remember that this shit completely changes every few years. I used to build PCs for myself and my school as a kid (386/486), then couldn't affort to for a few years, then had to start reading PC magazines when it finally came time to afford a new PC (Pentium 2/AMD equiv). Fast-forward a few years to my next major upgrade, and I'm reading Wikipedia instead of the mags, but I'm still pig-ignorant of the latest tech until I've figured out whether AGP is still current (nope) and which of DDR2/3 will be needed, how many cores are worthwhile, etc etc etc.
Maybe it's easier for those who do hardware support or deal with servers (I mostly deal with routers/switches/firewalls), but I get completely left behind if I ignore the PC components market for more than a few months.
...hand it in, please. Come on now, don't fight it.
She: Hey, are you a traitor? Me: No, I'm atheist.
Since we're already on such a weird request for slashdot, does anyone have any recommendations for a silent but effective CPU cooler, preferably under $70? I have a stock core 2 duo which is really loud, and I've tried checking newegg but the noise information they give is vague and the type varies between manufacturers.
Just find a reputable computer seller and order a machine that fits your budget. It'll probably run whatever you need it to run. If Oblivion is the heaviest game you're going to run, you can be done for about $500 probably.
If you don't want the same boring standard machine that everybody else has, then you'll have to do some research. I did that 2 years ago. My main resource was Silent PC Review because I was tired of my old jet-engine-soundalike. AnandTech is also a good source, as is Tweakers, if you happen to be Dutch. Lots of articles on those sites will refer to Tom's Hardware, which does benchmark graphs, but really, just get what everybody's recommending.
Two years ago, I went with:
All of this cost me about EUR 1000. Very happy with it. Dead quiet, too. Mind you, this is from 2 years ago. There's probably better, cheaper, quieter, faster stuff around now, but I'm not keeping up.
As for the dual core/quad core stuff: how many heavy CPU-using applications will you be running at the same time? Will your heaviest applications be able to make efficient use of multiple cores? If you don't know, go with dual core. One for the main app, one for everything else. No need to have to extra cores that are only idling all the time.
Another reason to choose AMD over Intel, Intel has some CPUs that support the new virtualization extensions and some that don't. AMD OTOH supports the virtualization extensions across the line. That and AMD quad cores are stupid cheap now. Unless you have a really pressing need for a really high end CPU get the AMD.
Personally, I'm a fan of www.bluewaffle.net, but other suggestions such as www.sharkyextreme.com and www.tomshardware.com are good.
Make sure that the CPU you buy supports hardware virtualization, for running virtual machines. Every computer enthusiast should want to run virtual machines!
I think all current AMD CPUs support hardware virtualization. But Intel in their infinite market segmentation wisdom has decided to randomly disable hardware virtualization on various CPUs in their lineup, so look before you buy. The funny thing is that very few computer salesmen know for which CPUs hardware virtualization is enabled, so the only result of Intel's market segmentation is confusion and dissatisfied customers.
well, do as everyone does: ... any relative actually, if you saw him once it's still okay to ask) for a custom build in a very tight price range
1) ask the tech guy (member of the family, friend
2) go to any supermarket and buy the first computer you find attractive
3) complain to the tech guy that computer never works properly and that comp science is bullsh!t
For intel, I don't think you can beat ark.intel.com for plain info.
Use a credit card.
How to chose a computer is a different question.
All new systems have all there bugs yet to be discovered.
But an older system for which you can search the internet for finding out any issues it may have, is the trade of of getting nearer to obsolete status.
For basic computing including internet usage, there are plenty of older systems, often free if you just look for toss outs. But then that is not buying and does noty qualify for a response to the question.
After a very long time (near twenty years) of using nothing but toss outs, I bought a new laptop. I knew what in needed it to do and i have found out it doesn't do it as well as I'd have expected of it. I suspect buying a not so old desktop refurb might have produced better results in some applications.
ultimately it comes down to a bit of a gamble regarding the buying of a new systems, no matter how much you research.
besides, it's rude not to help a fellow time traveler nerd who just emerged from the Past and looks to establish a small base in our times.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
This has a pretty good ranking of most cpus and gpus available. I recommend it http://www.cpubenchmark.net/
Personally, I'm in the process of building yet another system for myself. You've done part of the research already if you know what uses you intend to put the system to. In some ways it's getting easier as the general power level of most boxes will do most tasks well. I could load you down with the results of my research, but generally that's not particularly helpful unless you need the same sort of box I do.
Some general observations. You don't need a particularly hot machine for what you're talking about. Any reasonably competent motherboard, processor and ram combination should work for you. I'd go with a highish end graphics card since you game even though Oblivion series doesn't require a frame monster. I'd pay attention to what's on the board and make sure it has the right peripherals. I actually need a serial port, do you? The various system guides (I tend to use Ars Technica's system guide) are a good place to evaluate components. I build my boxes to last about three years and often get about five, but I tend to go as close to the bleeding edge as I can. I've had a couple of cases where this has caused problems. There are a number of boards with integrated everything that just need a hard drive, dvd/cd, ram and CPU to get off of the ground. I've built several of these and they work fine for the sort of thing you're doing. I'd probably upgrade the video if I played a lot of games on them, but so far it's not been needed. Since you're thinking about movies I will mention that I've found fan noise really annoying, and you probably want an enclosure that manages cooling well without a bunch of fans (no overclocking...)
Walking into a resonably competent store and buying something in the top third of their system offerings will also get you something decent. I've told friends to just go get a Dell box and that worked too. They even had support and haven't had me over to fix their computer yet. It's all a matter of budget, preference, and how much time you want to spend. I've got about 30-40 hours in the design of the box I'm building.and I'm about eighty percent done. I'll use it for at least five years if my guess is right. YMMV.
Same here, it is absolutely awful that we let them get away with all these horrible naming schemes that show no logical order.
Worse still when Requirements listings for software is so incredibly vague that you have no idea what cards to even search for!
I'm just glad there are a few of those people on Wikipedia who spend the time to compile the lists of the latest cards and hardware.
This is one of the reasons that people are so befuddled with PCs, especially when it comes to gaming.
Most people don't have the patience (or time) to waste searching through lists, installing programs to find out what hardware they have, or even know how to go about that.
I can't count how many people have been pissed off because their laptops can't play Game X, then stand there in absolute confusion when some guy at a PC store is talking about graphics cards.
This is the level of intelligence that hardware vendors SHOULD be targeting, but they never learn, do they?
This. Also, during the 1990s computer performance increased dramatically, as in it went from 10MHz to 1000MHz. Since then things have sort of reached a level of "good enough". For instance, I kept my motherboard and processor the same from 2002-2007, simply because it was still able to run most current software just fine. The only things which really prompted an upgrade were Oblivion and a desire to play with a 64-bit OS.
And as the parent says, that was a long enough wait to have lost touch with motherboard, memory and graphics card technology.
I recently built my own computer for similar purposes. I needed a box that would download things all day and output via HDMI to my TV, but I placed an extra constraint on my system: Linux compatibility, or at least a reasonable degree of compatibility. So, I researched available parts, using price as the first method of siphoning all the dreck. I live in China, so, for example, the processor's price ranged from a few hundred yuan (about 50 bucks) to about four thousand yuan (closer to $500). I decided not to pay more than 400 yuan for my processor, and right there, I cut out about 90% of the processors I had to research. I decided from then that I wanted a 64-bit processor and I would only look at the top 3 FSB's out of those processors, and I chose Intel because my previous experiences with Linux and AMD procs was somewhat dubious. Everything else kind of fell into place after simply choosing the proc, save for the GPU, which I chose for it's Native HDMI port, high-ish (1GB) dedicated memory and driver support in Linux. So that part was even easier.
Your situation seems a lot simpler than mine though, since you only have two constraints: Oblivion (don't know what it is) and 1080 video to a TV. Basically, what you need is any computer matching the requirements for playing Oblivion (I would go a little beyond recommended specs for running it) and with a NATIVE HDMI port. If you spend time worrying about complex names for different series of nanometer sized pieces of wire hypersolderized together, you will drown in the hopelessness that is marketing and advertizing and general rhetorical BS. Find out what specs you need to do what you want, if you're using Linux then check for compatibility issues in the forums of the distro you use or plan on using, and what you need to buy should pretty much be spelled out for you in pretty simple choices. If you're using Windows, you have a lot less to worry about since you don't really have control over those sorts of things, just take whatever has an HDMI port and enough RAM and cycles per second to run your game.
I don't have this problem with recent AMD processors, but I certainly do with Intel's. With Athlons it basically comes down to Athlons in 2 and 4 core variety, upper end is Phenoms with 2, 3 or 4 cores the Black edition of those which are supposedly for better overclocking, Opterons for sever and workstation, Semprons for budget computing. there's different dies and configurations But Intels, I can't even begin to name. I guess there's Celeron Pentium and Core. All of those have vastly different configurations, but b with Core it got really confusing cause they went from core2 to I7 and then I5 and now I3. WTF, Intel? Can you make this easier, please? This is a large part of the reason I completely over look your processors.
The eternal struggle of good vs. evil begins within one's self.
There are generally two choices after setting your budget: The easy way: Ask some knowledgeable people. But be prepared to spend some time sorting out opinion and fact. Your end result: Depending on how knowledgeable your sources, you will usually wind up with a PC that generally suits your purposes, but may not be what YOU want. The harder way: Ask around, and then back up your findings with research. Sometimes a bad end-user experience doesn't mean a bad product. Once you've researched, made your decisions, and marked your budget then you can begin the process of building. Your end result: Barring any manufacturer or installation errors you will usually wind up with a PC that does what you want and will live up to your expectations. I've tried both ways and that was my experience, and has been the experience of most people that I talk to. Just remember to build your computer to what you need. If you don't need the big flashy CPU, or the water cooling system, or the high-end GPUs then don't get them...Although I must say I was sold after seeing the pretty lights inside my case! 'the burden of proof is yours to carry'
Oblivion has been out for a while. my game box is build out of friends left overs. the graphics card is a ati hd 3870. not a sloucher, but rather out dated. btw, i have two but oblivion doesn't benefit from crossfire.
anyway most new cards will crunch it just fine.
Tom's Hardware post a regular guide to the best CPU & GPU at various price points....
Decide how much you want to spend on each component and see what is recommended.
CPU - http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/best-gaming-cpu,review-31815.html
GPU - http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/best-graphics-card,review-31829.html
Realistically any CPU/GPU combination from the last year or two shouldn't have a problem meeting your requirements, as most GPUs now decode 1080 video in hardware, and Oblivion shouldn't prove too taxing unless you are trying to run in very high resolutions.
It will just depend what your budget is and how future proof you want it to be.
Or reddit maybe... or google groups
I won't ask you for your geek card... as I assume you do not have one of those.
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
Oh, the humanity!
AMD capable motherboards tend to be a lot cheaper, that can easily save you enough money on a highly capable gaming system to replace the HD with an SSD, and that will have far more influence on game performance then the Intel chip will. In gaming, AMD performs a lot better. Always make sure to read the entire review of a CPU for the stats that are relevant to you. For instance, if you once in a blue moon use Office and never use a database on your PC, what do you care about how fast/slow your CPU is at them?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
"how do you buy a computer these days?"
- Set myself a minimum requirement (run this app, boot up in this amount of time, perform so-many I/O operations per second, etc.)
- Look at the specifications available from a range of my usual suppliers. Don't bother to look elsewhere - if you can't buy it, it doesn't exist. If you have to hunt for it, it'll be rare, expensive, not as well supported and probably far too specialist for your needs.
- Narrow things down by a sensible budget.
- Compare the specifications there against each other and, by looking them up on the net if necessary, find out which one is more suitable and best value-for-money for your needs (Is an Atom faster than whatever is in the other machine? Can my game take advantage of a second core?).
Basically, look at the "recommended" spec on those games you want to play, then go on about 10-12 large websites that sell computers to the market you're in (e.g. gaming) and see what they offer. The chances of being able to build anything comparable for the same / lower price are minimal - those days have gone and you're more likely to balls things up if you don't know what processor socket or PSU you need to run things properly.
Seriously, how hard is it? Ignore ALL of the marketing... see what you can afford, see what you need, see where they match (if at all), then do your research on those 2-3 models of machine (including their major components) that are good for you instead of trying to research every component that's currently available in every model that ever existed. I've managed to sort through a hundred models of PC to get to three in a few minutes, and then I just researched those three and actually spent nearly five times as long doing that last bit of thorough research properly.
If you want to know, I do this for a living for mainstream businesses / schools and that means everything from high-end CAD-stations to netbooks. It's *still* cheaper to buy the right thing from a large retailer's website than it is to mess about trying to cobble things together, whether you're buying one or hundreds. I have no idea what "name" processor is in 90% of the desktops I've bought... I can barely remember if they were Intel or AMD. It really doesn't matter at all what the codename is, I have no idea what the latest interfaces, cache sizes, socket-sizes, memory technology etc. even are. I just look it up when I have already narrowed things down to models with those components and make a decision based on what I can easily buy, how much I want to spend and what I *need* the computer to have / do.
You don't *need* to know all that rubbish, it's all just marketing anyway. What you need to do is see what's available and then check how well it's likely to run your games (e.g. benchmarks on similar games for the individual components, whether the processor is multi-core or not and whether the game can benefit). Let the assembly guys at a large company worry about whether the sockets are compatible, whether the memory timings are right, whether the PSU is powerful enough etc. If they mess it up, it costs them money. If you mess it up because you built it yourself or deviated from their normal bundles, it costs you money.
And no, you do *not* end up paying a premium to do things this way. You save money even before the things arrive on your doorstep due to the wonders of bulk-buying (Ever wonder *why* those bundle deals are so cheap? Mass purchasing by ordinary businesses, usually, if you ignore the holiday seasons), let alone the savings in not having to worry about destroying a card or PSU because you ordered a standard bundle and a "Super Duper Turbo Hyper Fighting" graphics card and put them together yourself because you heard it gets 1fps better on some random website.
Set yourself a specification (e.g. dual-core or not, speed in GHz, whether you are worried about the power it saps, X amount of RAM, etc.). Set yourself a budget. Find out how much stuff matches those. If it's a lot, set yourself a st
Buying computers is soooooo 2009 !
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
Now I can't even name a single PC component which is a must have and can't be found new for less than $100.
How about a Windows license so that apps and games that don't work in Wine still work?
Because there is no sense.
There is no sense within the lines of different manufacturers CPU/GPU or within different lines of the same manufacturer CPU/GPU.
There are different versions from the same reference layout from different vendors, there are different versions of the same model (memory, clock speed), there are different steppings out there at once.
I don't make sense of it because there is none. I'm following the development so I know what is going on and when it's time to buy something, I do a thorough catchup-session with reviews of all kinds.
All in all you can sum it up: chaos.
All I want is something that will run Oblivion and output full 1080 video to a TV.
They do the legwork already. Pick a budget
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
It's so nice to see that snobbery is alive and well in the nerd world
There is no -1 disagree
if performance is the issue and your current machine is at least 4 years old, then the odds are you have to be pretty lucky to buy something that is less powerful than your current machine?
I thought a 4-year-old Radeon outperformed an Intel GMA.
By informing yourself. Use search engines, find reviews, read hardware sites. The more time you invest on improving your awareness, the better your system will be for the money and the better use you'll make out of it.
Any CPU with more than 2 cores, should be able to handle most of what you want... I've been testing a dual core Atom 330 at work, and it's actually easy to forget it's not a "real" CPU (unless some FPU-intensive screensaver comes on).
For mid-to-low-end systems, GPUs are really the discriminator ... what makes a difference with running games at decent resolutions and playing back video. The model numbers are nuts, but I tend to cross-reference a few places:
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/ - a good comprehensive list that boils down and ranks just about every card out there into a single (artificial) benchmark number.
Wikipedia also has surprisingly good coverage of every family of chip, and what products are based off of them and tables of supported features - crucial for system building. So I use it primarily to figure out things like: which nVidia Geforce is equivalent to which Quadro FX branded model, what is the fastest memory my "Barton" core Athlon would support, what the hell is the difference between a 2.2Ghz "Williamette" vs. a 2.2Ghz "Prescott", etc.
I've also taken a liking to checking with http://www.phoronix.com/ for Linux benchmarks and support for new hardware features and drivers... such as nVidia vs. ATi vs. Intel, which distribution has better VPDAU or audio support, etc.
And definitely once in a while read up on http://anandtech.com/ and http://tomshardware.com/ if it's been a while and you need a comprehensive explanation of new tech, such as SSDs or long-term price vs. performance investment strategies... those can really help you plan ahead (Intel & nVidia's tick-tock release cycle, finding the best value, and just generally knowing which buzzwords are important and which are just marketing rubbish.
for games, a dedicated console is a better choice.
A console like a PS3 or Wii isn't the best choice if you like to play mods, or if you like to play video games developed by microISVs that are too small to have a "secure business office".
If you use Firefox, you use a database.
Yeah, because SQLite has heavy processing requirements.
If you want to *really* be pedantic, why not argue that Excel is a database? Or Notepad? Or the MRU entries in the registry?
Ever so slowly, we see the evidence that people on slashdot are starting to mature.
First, it was the gradual evaporation of the "linux will rule the desktop by next tuesday" usual nonsense.
Then, while every even vaguely microsoft related article is still turned into a microsoft-bash fest, there are at least a fair number of sane rebuttals.
Now, lo and behold, even though it's probably easier than ever before to make sense of the various computer components out there, what we are acutally seeing is some slashdot guy, however peripheral, admit that time has value - specifically, he does not want to invest his time to determine the value of items. far different to the days of his youth when he'd pore through hundreds of computer shopper ads to save $3.50 on a modem.
what next - an actual rational discussion of copyright laws? oh, one dares not dream that impossible dream.
I found http://mysuperpc.com/ very helpful the last time I built a pc from scratch. I have no connection with the site, just appreciate the advice. Bill
Same here. Between 2005 and 2009 I had no need to build a new PC (or even mess about with the innards of recently built boxes), and had to spend a couple of evenings familiarising myself with all the new acronyms and what they meant. AGP, IDE: all but gone. Yet more ram types. Mysterious new slots, with good old PCI going the way of ISA (relegated to a couple of token slots at the bottom). So many "cores" to think about. Gigs of RAM cheap as chips. Etc. etc. It was almost like being a time-traveller who's been zapped a few years into the future.
Still amazed by how many boards still have floppy connectors though.
Anyway, I cast around, worked out what would work with what, and put together something from parts positioned mainly around the "sweet point" (maybe US$500 for parts and a bit more for a nice case) and it all works. Blazing fast, but off the top of my head now couldn't say exactly what I put in there; a post-Pentium Intel with a couple of cores, and maybe a P45 chipset? And a cheap graphics card (something NVIDIA) which works (almost) fine with my dual-monitor setup.
1) Goto nearest Apple store.
2) Dump all of your savings on counter.
3) Take whatever they're willing to trade for it.
4) Go home and install your mac mini.
Optional: 5) Admire the packaging for a while.
On a more serious note: All the time spent on researching and building your custom god box could be spent on earning more cash for your next upgrade.
Whatever you do, it won't last you more than three years anyway, because you will think it's too old by then. Something to consider.
Huh? I don't get it. I did not mention laptops, is there some reasoning you have that puts $5k laptops within the $300 desktop $5k server space that I talked about?
In case I was not clear, no, I do not build laptops, nor would I recommend it and it is a rather OT issue.
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
But don't you at least follow the news a little? When new stuff (CPUs, graphics cards and so on) comes out there's generally a story here on slashdot with links to benchmarks. It's not difficult or time consuming to read a couple articles a month.
Mada mada dane.
I have the same experience - in fact I haven't bough a single desktop PC (as a whole) in 15 years - and I second this.
Before you start researching ask yourself this:
"Am I going to be playing 3D games on my PC?"
- If "Yes", then the price tag on your PC will make it worth the while to do a little research instead of just paying up for the best of the best. Go to the usual hardware review websites (such as tomshardware, anandtech) and start investigating CPU and Graphics Cards choices (typically most other decisions flow from these, for example: CPU dictates Motherboard which dictates Memory, while Graphics Card also dictates Motherboard plus Power Source). If you care about noise you'll have to check out speciality sites (such as silentpcreview).
-If "No", then it won't be worth the time and the trouble to do any kind of heavey research: just go for price. The only real decisions here are "How much memory?" (2GB is good, 4GB is better, beyond it's a waste atm), "How much HD space?" (how much were you using before? Was it enough? Were you feeling constrained. Remember you can always add a second HD later) and "How big a monitor?" (personal choice here, often dictated by the space you have for it) - the rest is simply price.
Those are great lists, also if you can narrow it down to two processors, check out Anandtech's comparison tool that helped me out a lot when I was trying to decide how far to upgrade recently. Because what I was looking for was frames per second in an MMO, not what it scored on a benchmarking tool.
My work here is dung.
It has some magic included, but the number of the cpu is secret
Remember that this shit completely changes every few years. I used to build PCs for myself and my school as a kid (386/486), then couldn't affort to for a few years, then had to start reading PC magazines when it finally came time to afford a new PC (Pentium 2/AMD equiv). Fast-forward a few years to my next major upgrade, and I'm reading Wikipedia instead of the mags, but I'm still pig-ignorant of the latest tech until I've figured out whether AGP is still current (nope) and which of DDR2/3 will be needed, how many cores are worthwhile, etc etc etc.
Maybe it's easier for those who do hardware support or deal with servers (I mostly deal with routers/switches/firewalls), but I get completely left behind if I ignore the PC components market for more than a few months.
I couldn't agree more.
I work for one of the CPU manufacturers and I struggle to keep track of it all. The GPU side is even worse, with both sides streamlining (read: changing the bloody names) every so often. It is not simple in any way, shape or form, and there is a damn good reason that both Intel and AMD have launched initiatives to try and simplify the process based on experience/use cases, rather than hardware. Issues with such branding aside, neither chip manufacturer is blind to how insanely complex the product numbers/interaction between pieces has become. Take this issue to the public, and you're lucky if they even know what Intel does, or who AMD is, let alone what fricken processor/motherboard/GPU pairing is best optimized for their needs. This is a problem that is well identified, but not gracefully handled, and if anyone has a truly simple solution, you have a number of large companies very eager to hear it.
1. Set your budget.
2. Determine your application: office? games? media center?
3. Determine your desired lifecycle
4. Choose hardware that suits the result of #2 and 3
if games:
spend money on video card and processor, but maybe not so much on anything else
if office (lots of hours/day of use):
spend money on ergonomics such as IPS monitor, ergo keyboard and mouse, office s/w, etc...
if media center:
spend money on TV Tuner card, IR remote, good media center S/W, Bluray drive, HDMI video card
--
A note on multicore processors. They are useful if you run a lot of background services or multiple CPU-intensive applications, but 99.9% of S/W is not written to take advantage of the architecture directly. Multicore procs are most useful today for background services. Unless you have a specific piece of software that utilizes multiple cores in a deliberate way, more than 2 cores is probably a waste of money for you.
I have three PCs at home: An Athlon X2-5200, a Phenom X4-940, and a Core i7-920. I can't tell a difference between any of them for 99.9% of the stuff that I do.
Oh, and an SSD makes a gigantic difference if you can afford it. All three of my PCs have a 60GB SSD for the system and a 1TB hard disk for everything else. The SSD makes all the difference in the world in terms of making the PC more snappy and responsive.
I'm not an old man and thus only have about 10 years experience with computers, but in those ten years, components have become more and more complicated.
It used to be that the faster processors had the highest numeral (eg, Pentium 2 Pentium 3) and the highest clock speed tacked to the end of them.
But now we've reached the brick wall of that megahertz race and we're in a new efficiency race, where things are not so simple. The highest numeral isn't always the best, and neither is the highest clock speed- although it still helps.
This would be far less of a problem if the older components died out, like they used to, but even that's not the case anymore.
For example, the Pentium brand is STILL alive, because when Intel get a load of duff C2D chips with bad caches, they dust them off and sell them as Pentiums. This is a lot more economical for them, but it means that the old generations of chips won't die to clean up the market for new ones.
Things would probably be a lot clearer if the older components could some how be killed off once and for all.
Ooh! ooh! I know ! I can play this game too!
FILESYSTEMS!!
Seriously, if you can't build your computer, you don't belong here.
I find that when I build a new system I first think about what I will be doing most IE: video editing, gaming, etc and design my system around that. AMD or Intel let the fanboys fight that out both are good choices and have certain advantages. yes you will need to do research tom's hardware is always a good choice for getting information that does not sound like a foreign language. Also read the Newegg reviews for products you are thinking of purchasing.
Chris Sheppard
It's sillier than you realise. Now we can't even RTFA, as it just forwards you straight to pricewatch shopping. What a waste of screenspace ... this is one article Slashdot should just retroactively shitcan (or at least edit out the misleading link).
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
I'm not above building my own system, but for my (relatively simple) needs, it rarely seems worth the effort. So I approach the problem in a somewhat backward manner. I start with a budget, scan the ads (BB, Fry's, Microcenter, Newegg, even TD) to see what's available in my price range, then check out the capabilities of each system and do a rough cost/benefit analysis to select a system to purchase. Works for me.
Geology - it's not rocket science; it's rock science
I was recently in the exact same situation; I used the same motherboard and (single-core) processor for the past few years. I went with an i7-860; there's no reason to get a dual-core when you can get a quad-core at a reasonable price. Make yourself as future-proof as you can, within your budget.
If it is a server I ask the networking department to give me something with many processors and a lot of memory. (if it is for something specific - not just an other web server - then I might get more specific).
If it is a desktop I go to the Apple store and buy something that has enough memory, or space for enough memory, and does not have a display permanently attached to it (unless it is a laptop)
If it is a PC for home, then it will run Linux anyway, so I just make sure it does use as little juice as possible.... my linux box is an NSLU2 and a WRT54G (v1.0) .. and they are low power....
If it is a game PC I check the most advanced 1st person shooter's optimal requirements, and try to aim somewhere there. Then put the PC together, start it a few times, and never ever turn it on again until it is old enough to put Linux on it. I always have this fantasy of playing a lot, and having a nice fast windows machine, but then I realize, that I do not like any of the new games after I have all the expensive input devices too. I do that every 6-7 years, then I realize how much more I enjoy doing anything else other than staying +x hours in front of a video game.
At least these are the choices I made regarding computer purchases in the last 3 years.
Yes. But there are details. Lots and lots of details.
I did an upgrade last year, and in the few years since I last upgraded, the memory standard had changed again, AGP had gone obsolete, the CPU socket had changed for the billionth time, my old PCI cards had been obsoleted by Vista, PATA had nearly died, and the expected PSU power output had increased by a few hundred watts.
It's not so bad though. You just do your research before you buy. Every nerd should be able to research these things and cope with the level of detail involved.
An apostrophe simply means missing letters. Check old documents and you will see things like Thos' as an abbreviation for Thomas. The usage may be archaic but it is indeed English. Perhaps not American English tho'.
1) Get a processor rating table (I found one at Tom's Hardware or Phoronix, can't actually remember)
2) Look for prices on online sites and draw a line on the minimum Performance for the maximum Price you want to pay
3) Check for possible candidates on sites which filter PCs based on such features (can't recomend as I'm in Brazil) -- select only those with Linux preinstalled
4) Compare other features like memory, HD type & speed, brand (if you care), looks (if you got a wife) vis-a-vis with intended use
5) Go for the best online price for maximum comfort or
6) Start looking for similar machines on marts (that's what I've done)
7) Profit.
Aside: Unless you have a technician long time friend or relative, or are absolutely sure you can trust someone to be honest, you really have to research things. Even a trustworthy, technically savvy seller could misunderstand your criteria and recommend the wrong choice; losing a frienship will always be worse than any bad deal...
Exactly right. Be very careful with Intel's messy web site and confusing information. A higher model number may eliminate a feature.
Do you want hardware virtualization? Yes. You may want to install a program to test it, without taking a chance of causing trouble for your main OS installation. Sun VirtualBox is free for personal use.
My experience with Intel is that everything but processor and chipset design is amazingly poorly managed.
If you ask nicely @ 4chans /g/ (tech) board, you can occasionally get a really nice (though sometimes questionable) who's who of processors and graphics cards.
Best method Ive found is going to newegg, doing power searches for the contenders in each category (ie, ruling out atom and via cpus, setting price caps), then sorting by best reviews, and if there is a question at that point refer to benchmarks to see what their actual performance is. Makes things way easier when you have a basic idea of what your choices are, rather than pulling out the intel cpu chart and blindly picking one.
I have found these resources indispensable in figuring out how modern CPUs and GPUs compare to each other:
... primarily because these tables are dynamic: find the part you're currently using (or want to use as your baseline for comparison) in the table, click on it, and then all the other parts in the table are immediately color-coded as to how much of a step forwards or backwards they are from that part, based on a normalized performance rating.
(It's pathetic that the marketing departments at the companies that make these things are so incompetent that we need tools like these to sort out what exactly they're selling us, but until they get on the ball I'm glad these tools exist.)
Read my blog.
Motherboard and PSU. Don't try to save money on these two by buying cheaper.
Everything else is determined only by how much money you have to spend.
Also, everything else can be upgraded/replaced without having to replace other components.
Pay close attention to PSUs 12V amperage - don't buy cheap Chinese ones that have hundreds of theoretical Watts but give only about 20 Amps on 12V.
12V is for all of your coolers, hard-drives (including external ones), optical drives and anything else you attach to it that has a motor or movable parts.
Buy ULTRA or Corsair (if you can't afford a ULTRA).
With motherboards, pay extra for the Deluxe or Pro model - however they call it.
Compare it to the "regular" version of the motherboard.
If it looks almost the same with maybe another PCI or USB slot added - the pricier one is the one that actually works as intended/advertised.
The cheaper "regular" model probably couldn't quite cut it, so it got downgraded from the original intended specs.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Yeah, Macs are 'dumbed down' as far as the OS goes
That must be the reason, why OS X is SYSTEM V certified...
If you're serious about developing applications (excl. high-end-win32/64): Mac.
If you are serious about web-design: Mac.
If you do anything (serious or not) with audio/video: Mac.
If you like an aesthetically-pleasing UI for serious people: Mac.
If you (seriously) like getting things done: Mac.
If you wanna seriously play Oblivion, just install Windows or run the Cider-port "natively."
Seriously, get a mac!
A quad-core isn't necessarily more future-proof than a dual-core. A quad-core is only really better than a dual core when your most CPU-intensive application is multithreaded. Although chances are that the future will bring us a lot more multithreaded applications.
For servers it's easier. There, more cores is practically always going to be better.
model numbers are not math, they are marketing. Marketing doesn't have to make sense.
That's what I do.. /. http://techreport.com/articles.x/18448
This one was posted couple of weeks ago on
When I'm about to buy, I have always taken a look at Tom's Hardware charts..
Right, because it's so damned hard to figure out? Spend a day or two at some nice hardware review sites and you will figure out very quickly what's good and what isn't. Anandtech, Tom's Hardware, and 3DGuru are good sites imo.
Bit-Tech.Net does a hardware guide every month It's from the UK but still good Here is March: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/buyers-guide/2010/03/09/pc-hardware-buyers-guide-march-2010/1
K Man
Case with PSU no (most of them are very poor ones) and the very low price MB have poor caps and other cheap parts that are not that good vs paying a little more for better parts.
If you play high-definition video on YouTube, you exercise a CPU.
Especially if you try and do it under linux.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
What annoys me is that it's not the technical specs that are hard to follow, but that the manufacturers spin out so many derivative products and seem to purposely muddy the waters with their naming/numbering conventions. I can lookup charts for performance and whatnot, but those charts become excessively bloated due to product proliferation that the chore is not in understanding what can perform where I want, but wading through the overabundance of data to make that final determination.
When I have an upgrade to do it takes me about two weeks of poking around before I'm close to making a decision. And that's not because I'm indecisive, but because there's just too many products by each manufacturer that are too similar. It takes time to realize that products "X", "Y" and "Z" by company "A" are all really the same product within minimal tolerances, but named quite differently or in a way where the one with the higher product number associated with it is actually the inferior product.
I used to enjoy hardware and making purchases, but now I just see it as an annoying chore. Maybe I've just gotten old and have less patience, but when looking to upgrade these days it certainly seem more like work -- rather than fun.
Thought thinks itself.
I was actually quite good with C++, I just found it considerably more boring than I thought it would be (In retrospect, I'm sure the classroom environment didn't help and I should have looked into tinkering with OSS projects). And I had a passion for hardware way before that.
Furthermore, from working in corporate IT, most people don't understand hardware that well either. That's why they overpay CDW and others to handle it for them. And about half the time those guys don't know what they are talking about.
To answer the poster...any Phenom II or Core 2 CPU avaiable plus a video card where the second number is a 6 or higher (x6xx) available on Newegg will do the trick for Oblivion.
As our way of thanking you for your positive contributions to Slashdot, you are eligible to disable Slashdot 2.0.
An i7, with its hyper-threading (shows up as 8 logical cores in Windows) and turbo boost is going to outperform any dual core you're recommending.
Unfortunately you are still limited to comparing variations of the same apple, so if you want to see if it's a Xeon, Sempron or i7 you want/need many hardware reviews are just too limited.
Obscurity seems to be the life-line for the manufacturers these days and there is no simple way to compare the devices.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Congratulations, you're a yuppie. Do you drive your kids to soccer practice in a minivan too?
many articles and advise for noobs
/g/ is pretty awesome.
I also favor looking on TomsHardware.com , tom has the charts.... you can tell the wheat from the chaff by looking at Crysis performance for any part.
Buy a XBox360 and then you won't have worry yourself about all those nasties inside.
I like traffic lights
Yes there is. Intel revised their system quite well, you start at the bottom with the Core i3 and move up to the Core i7. Where they messed up is by calling the i7 8xx and 9xx series i7s... They should clearly be separate since they are on a different socket.
Nvidia is fairly similiar, go from the bottom of the barrel GT210 upto a GTX295. It gets confusing however if you try to use current model numbers to reference previous gen parts...
By price. Buy the best CPU you can afford and don't worry about what it's called. Multiple cores is usually better. Faster clock speeds is usually better. More modern processors usually give better performance at the same clock speed.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Top tier: i7, for hardcore graphics needs on a single station.
Middle tier: Core 2 Quad, for large-scale, multi-system computation.
Bottom tier: Pentium Dual Core (Wolfdale), for all general purpose, gaming and media center PCs.
I actually love the 2.8 GHz Wolfdales. Easy to OC.
I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
Typical freetard response. He didn't ask you for a snarky, uninformed referral for game consoles. The man asked for advice dealing with a gaming PC.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
>> If you play high-definition video on YouTube, you exercise a CPU.
> Especially if you try and do it under linux.
This is true of ANY platform and the vast majority of video cards.
This is by no stretch of the imagination a "Linux only" problem.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
They are expensive but the hierarchy is clear and they are not THAT expensive if you compare them to other PCs with exactly the same specs.
They are so good at it that each model is just a few $$$ more than the one you are looking at so that you tell yourself... mmm for just a little more money I could get that. After a few minutes you end up wanting the top of the line when the entry level would do what you need it to do :)
Look at the actual names that their engineers use internally, instead of the marketing names disguised as “cool technical model numbers”
Ok, at least simple in theory. In practice you first have to find those actual names.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
There's nothing wrong with sourcing a cheap ~$50 motherboard. It's not like most of us overclock our PCs. Most brands (ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI, etc) come with decent warranties anyway.
Spending $250+ on an enthusiast motherboard with all solid caps for a $500 HTPC project is absurd.
Sigs are for losers
...fuck are YOU supposed to be, telling someone they "have no business" doing ANYTHING?
Goddamned arrogant Slashdotters.
The BYO guide is a bit out of date now, but it'll help you get up to speed on processor architecture, motherboard chipsets, etc. From there of course ars technica, tom's hell even just browsing newegg's offerings will get you the rest of the way there.
Good luck.
There is a decent amount of it. I use Mueller's book, Tom's Hardware and similar, plus with hardware manufacturer websites. There is also this: http://cr.yp.to/hardware/build-20090123.html
SARAVA!
Generally I don't consider a new product to be news. They're released on schedules and always offer improvement. But when building a machine, there is a lot more practical knowledge unless you want to throw your money at the newest and greatest hardware. News sites generally only cover the high end and many technologies simply never become economical or price-worthy. Integrated graphics have eliminated the need for GPU cards for everything but high-end gaming.
I tried. It has been 3 months without a desktop and counting.
Unless you want to get a high-end gaming rig, just don't do it. I tried to do a desktop for about $600 (re-using my monitors), and while my parts came under the cost, it still doesn't work.
I tried soo hard to make everything compatible. I even spent extra time reading all of the reviews, buying brand-name hardware, I even read every product manuals before purchasing. I work as an electrical design engineer, so I figured this should be relatively easy. I have built 4 other computers before, so how hard could it be.
3 MONTHS. $50 in shipping/RMA/Thermal Grease/ect. 50 hours of my life. Gone. If I would have bought a Dell, I would be up and running by now. Endless hours working with customer service representitives, nobody able to tell me how to resolve it.
XP/Vista: Can't install (BSOD when trying to boot into the install)
XP on a pre-installed HDD: BSOD during the boot cycle (Possibly on the agp driver dll.)
Windows 7: Can install, but won't boot 90% of the time (BSOD during boot. Usually talking about an instruction trying to access memory that is out of bounds, but the BSOD varies). (Legit version of windows 7)
RMA mobo twice (once to newegg, once to Gigabyte). RMA'd the ram once. Bought different brand of RAM.
Ubuntu: Works fine, but I can't install my $$ CAD/Schematic programs.
RAM: F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231193)
MOBO: GIGABYTE GA-MA770T-UD3P (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128392)
CPU: AMD Phenom X2 550 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103680)
Video: Radeon HD 4650 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102843)
Power Supply: OCZ ModXStream Pro 600 watts (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817341017)
There is NO REASON that these parts shouldn't work together. I'm about to throw $650 down the drain and buy a dell because I can't solve this problem. I'm going out to buy a crappy video card and make sure it isn't somehow related to that, but again I will be throwing away $30.
There is no reason to build a PC unless you are going for a high end gaming machine. It is not worth the frustration. Sure, I may be a fringe case, but do YOU want to risk being a fringe case that customer service doesn't care about.
Call or email customer service
"Well, we can't figure it out, go to www.RMA_THIS_CRAP.com to return the part"
Spend $10 on shipping
Wait 3 weeks
Install the hardware, update the OS and drivers (takes about 5 hours to get everything up and running again)
get the same problem.
Cry
rinse, repeat
My biggest problem when upgrading my system is usually the monitor. For example I really like the display of the new iMacs. How can I buy a similar standalone Monitor without resorting to industry standard Displays that cost 1500$. Is there any good comparison for new displays available online?
It's not very hard to look up enough information about all the CPU/GPU models, motherboards and other components, or manufacturer's if you are TRULY lazy. You have ZERO excuse to whinge about this given the VAST number of hardware sites and reviews available today. It should take you at MOST an hour to pin down the basics of what you want/need within your budget. If you go with the pre-builts it MAY take a bit longer and you MAY have to settle on a review of a higher or lower model that SHOULD still be SIMILAR to the one that you're looking at. /. how the ---- did a whiney story like this make the front page?
In your case, it's very easy. Google for an Oblivion benchmark. If that's all you really want your computer to do, then just find the cheapest parts that score well in your desired resolution and framerate.
I spent some time yesterday learning about SSE4.x extensions. And that the instruction set increased to SSE4.1 on the chips from Intel that were built on the 45nm fabrication process. I also learned that the SSE4.2 set completed the SSE instructions rollout, and that set is available on the Core i7 . I also learned that while most of the SSE instructions are multimedia related, the later revisions do more with floating points, and vmware only experimentally supports ignoring the instructions ( how can they know what your app needs or is doing). UGH
All this to expand an ESX cluster of all IBM HS21s . Intel chips, same manu, same model... vmotion is failing . Not even IBM can keep up with the changes in the meanings and names of what the chips are doing and are capable of .
A day or two? And people wonder why the Apple store is popular.
this is a good answer. i found an Nvidia Geforce 8600 card via pricewatch for my dad's computer that has an hdmi port on it that would probably do for you if you don't want to pay a whole lot.. you can convert dvi to hdmi, but it's nice to have hdmi on the card itself because it can carry the audio also. on the other hand, it sounds like a PlayStation 3 would fit your requirements nicely.
-dan
Yes, well you're not the guy trying to play a game from 2006 on an HD monitor now are you?
Stupid noobs GTFO My Interwebs
yeah no kidding, I come from the computer stone age as well. I was 8 when I got my TI-994A, got the first IBM AT, built a i386 clone with my dad (An EE). Saved up at my first job and purchased for $2,500 a screaming i486DX50 with 16MB of RAM and a 400MB hard drive! It was my freshman year in college when the first 1GB drives came out.
It gives me chub that I can build a 64b, VT, multicore procs, GB's of RAM and 1TB hard drives for less than that 486 proc cost me. Kids are spoiled these days.
I stuck my head back into to the upgrade hardware stream and for me the right thing was a decent MB with no fans(Heat pipes), an integrated ATI GPU, an AMD triple core proc, 4GB's of RAM and a 1TB HD. Also, it needed to have at least 3 PCI slots for the PVR cards that I have. More than 2 PCI slots is becoming rare.
My point was that it took me much longer than it should have, to have to update myself on what tech was current. What parts work together. What parts fit in the slots, but didn't work to well together.
The CPU choice comes down to this, do you want price/performance or just performance?
If you plot the price/performance for CPUs the results is non-linear. The more you pay the lower your price/performance.
Currently AMD dominates the lower end of the market. For this reason their CPUs will give you better price/performance. The last release of Windows is much faster then vista, so for most people there is no need to get a high performance CPU to compensate for bloat. For this reason AMD is the best choice for most people.
However if you need high performance because you do video games (although really CPU has little effect compared to the GPU), do video encoding, etc. Then it may be worth it to spend the extra bucks to get more power.
Decide what you are going to use the computer for. Make a budget. Then look at benchmarks for the apps you are going to run.
Trying to compare CPU performance based on the names on the box is a waste of time. The days of GHz vs GHz are over. It's all just marketing games now.
The simple answer is "I don't". Not anymore: both Intel (and specifically Intel) and AMD have put significant effort into obscuring CPU capabilities. Additionally, there's no longer any point in doing the same things we did when things were MHz/price or Intel's MHz-equiv/price (if you bought AMD).
These days, there are basically three things to do (in decreasing price and increasing effort):
1) Lazy/pricey way: just buy some of the more expensive shit from NewEgg or Dell. It'll play your games.
2) "About $100" way: each major component of the system (hdd, cpu, ram, etc.) should be about $100. Just pick something, it'll play the games. Maybe throw slightly more at the video card.
3) Take a look at performance reviews on Anand or similar sites and compare the performance benchmarks to their price. Get whatever has the best bang/buck.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Tech report recently compared new generation processors with a 5 year old Pentium 4. http://techreport.com/articles.x/18448
I had the same dilemma recently and I wanted the same as you – Oblivion. I did not want expensive stuff.
First I learned that i3 CPU goes well with H55 chip set for Hi-def video. Both components have integrated logic for video and audio streaming and decoding. I also learned that not every software player out there would use those integrated logics.
Second, Oblivion is already an old game, but it is very hungry on VRAM. Thus I got ATI 5770 (medium price range) with 1GB VRAM
HDD, case and power supply I already had (750GB Samsung, 450W Corsair)
Memory – 2x2 GB OCZ – that was pricey (and Oblivion would use only 2 gigs anyway, AFIK). I don’t even know the exact model of the memory, I just asked for the best memory in the shop.
OS – Win 7 Home 64bit
However (in case you are new to game) the most crucial thing to do is install a myriad of mods that improve the game beyond belief. I just red the article below and then went and selected one mod per category based on feedback and forum discussions.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Must_Have_Mods
Sure, there were some conflicts between the mods but he Mod manager can identify and report them so you can select a set of mods that will work. The game now is prettier (QTP3 mod), faster!!!, much better leveling system (Francesco's mod), much better UI (DarkN mod), more hot keys and customization (Expanded Hot keys and Spell Delete mod), more music, better ambient sounds and much better magic system (Less annoying magic experience mod).
And all this for free! What can I say? I love the Internet, I love human creativity, I love when I see so much effort to provide great satisfaction for FREE! Beteshda are lazy amateurs compared to these guys out there. The game should cost 10 bucks maximum and when 2-3 years later the mods are compelling people to keep on playing and buying the game for even more years, those modders should get another 10 bucks from the gamers. I mean the QTP3 mod is downloaded by hundreds of thousands of people! Charge 3 bucks per copy and you are a millionaire….
I cannot believe that this post made it as a top article! What is Slashdot coming to? I mean seriously? Seriously??? Someone actually posted this ignorance on Slashdot and wasted a space for a real article? If you don't know about the hardware, you shouldn't be building a PC. That's that. If you are that ignorant that you cannot be bothered to: 1. Keep up with the hardware 2. Understand the numbering scheme (which isn't that hard to be honest) 3. Or actually do the research Then you shouldn't be building your own. Buy a Dell, get a warranty, and be done with it.
It's shocking to me how many "computer scientists" don't even follow modern x86 computer hardware enough to assemble a PC. Something any competent 14 year old can do in an afternoon.
But spending $150 is perfectly reasonable, especially if he intends to use the machine for more than 2 or 3 years. I've had components on motherboards fail in under 2 years because of bad caps, so the question is: Does he want the recurring cost of occasionally replacing the motherboard (and probably the CPU and RAM as well), or does he pay a bit more on the mobo and end up with a machine that will last longer?
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Yes when people have so much money they can blow $2k-$3k without spending so much as a day to review their options (read: more money than sense) they just head straight to the apple store, point at the prettiest thing on the counter and hand them their credit card.
A good many people out there still have their Athlon XP 2000-2500 systems - myself included. Partially because of "good enough", partially from economics.
This system (which I built) was good enough to play most new games decently almost right up to the point Crysis came out. The only things that have changed in this system since it was built in 2004 or so is that my Radeon 9600 Pro died and I couldn't find an AGP replacement (currently running on a GeForce MX400 from the parts bin - NOW I can't play any games!) and adding more HDD space.
And I too was an uber-geek for PC hardware, until real life caught up and I didn't have time to keep up with anything. Yesterday I was asked to help a friend setup a system, and I'm so lost that I basically found an HP with the best-looking specs for his budget (most RAM, most HDD, non-integrated video) at Wal-Mart.
*snicker* I've gone from building PCs from scratch with custom-ordered parts and $500 Thermaltake cases . . . to buying el cheapo's at Wal-Mart.
Sad.
On this topic, has anyone ever figured out any pattern to Samsung's computer monitor model numbers? They have a large number of them but I've never made much sense of all the numbers or suffixes, beyond the first two digits sometimes being the diagonal in inches.
Here are a few from my list of those that are 1680x1050:
206BW
2032NW
2043WM
2043BW
2043EW
2043FW
2043NW
2043BWX
226BW
T220HD
2253LW
2253BW
220WM
225BW
2243BWX
2220WM
2243BWT
216BW
2243WM
225UW
2233RZ
"That's why they overpay CDW and others to handle it for them. And about half the time those guys don't know what they are talking about."
You really don't need to know too much about hardware to work in corporate IT. You don't ever deal with PC's below the system level. You just buy assembled PCs from major manufacturers based on the hardware requirements from your software vendors. When it breaks you ship it back for a replacement.
And for what it's worth our CDW-G rep is fantastic.
for laptop graphics card comparisons i like...
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark-List.844.0.html
it's pretty win. and is up to date.
"If still these truths be held to be
Self evident."
-Edna St. Vincent Millay
A day or two if you plan on building your own computer. If you want a good performance machine, just get an Alienware machine or a computer from one of those boutiques that focus on gaming/performance. If you're trying to get the best bang for your buck, well tough you're going to have to build it yourself and spend a few days.
I would hardly consider Apple a great performance/price ratio.
Since "HD" has been commonplace in consumer LCD monitors for 5+ years now, I don't see what you are trying to say here.
It's shocking to me how many "computer scientists" don't grasp the fundamental nature of computer science. You'll continue to be misusing the term until you understand that computer science has nothing to do with what you think of as computers.
Just a thought, but the PS3 will give you 1080p, play games, music, videos, photos etc., includes a Blu-ray player and you can buy lots of gizmos for it all for well under the price of a new PC. It looks a lot cleaner too, since all it requires is one power and one HDMI cable.
Once I was a four stone apology. Now I am two separate gorillas.
I recently upgraded my PC of about 5 years. Realising that I hadn't kept completely in touch with advancements in PC technology, I went forum mining.
I knew I wanted to play Dragon Age: Origins and I wanted it to run great. Searching related forums for Dragon Age I found plenty of people who had helped other with issues. Quite a few of these people list their current system spec in their signature.
Once I had a basic idea that was within my budget I cross referenced this with a few searches through over-clocker forums. Again there where many people who assist each other and also quote their system specs.
I found this process to be a fairly quick way on buying an on-budget (well, I did go a little over but what the heck) system made up of compatible components that were up to the job of playing the games I want to play.
MOD PARENT UP. I'm out of points. :(
This article is great, and to make things easy at the end there's a nice picture showing all the different processors and how their performance compares to their price.
Just drop to the bottom of the page and select page 17. Make a copy of those images and buying a processor will be super easy.
I've built many PCs over the years, and here's the most effective time-saver method I can advise for mid-range PCs:
Pick out a CPU and Graphics card from Tom's "Best x for the money" monthly guides. These are pretty spot on and will save you a bit of time. Try not to go under $80 for a CPU and $100 for a graphics card, because you start hitting a point where you lose too much performance per dollar. Add CPU and graphics card cost for 40% of system cost. Anything above the price point I mentioned should handle your requirements, but check benchmarks at review sites to be sure.
Look them up on newegg and use the combo items to find the other peices. You can also use combo item list to find compatibilities and search the categories with those in mind. Compare the combo items to the hot items for each cateogory and make a decision on which you should go with based on price/features/reviews.
Mobo: Either go with the combo deal on a processor or find the chipsets compatible with your processor and sort by "most reviewed" to see what informed people are buying. Read the mid-level reviews to see what people dislike about the item (4 & 3 stars). There is always one or two shining stars per chipset that outcompete the rest in the mainstream segment, and these will have disproportionately more reviews than the other boards.
RAM: Use mobo specs to pick out which RAM you need, these days most likely 2x2gig DDR2 or 3x2gig DDR3 depending on mobo. Use "most reviewed" again to spot items people have landed on after research.
HDD: Not much has changed. SSD won't help too much with game performance, so this one is up to you.
PSU: Use "most reviewed" again, try to pick out of the middle range of your needed wattage. A cheap PSU can destroy your entire system. Make sure it can handle your graphics card.
Case: Personal preference. You can usually find a nice mature/non-bling case with most reviewed again, and a lot of times cases & PSUs have combos offered.
You can do more fine-grained research to save 10%, but I personally don't think its worth the many hours necessary to ensure you're not buying lemons.
In summary, don't worry about the model numbers and work from the main items towards compatibilities for RAM & Mobo. All PCIE will be compatible with almost any board you choose.
This methodology works pretty well on systems from $500 to $1000 without bells & whistles. Yes, you're buying what everyone else bought, but "everyone else" who buys these things are buying on the leading edge every 6-12 months. They have experience.
It's not difficult or time consuming to read a couple articles a month.
And then promptly forget all of the details as you don't even so much as think of it again for months on end.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
By HD, he is referring to a TV, not a desktop LCD so he preferably wants a gpu that has HDMI out with proper audio.
And yes, the point I was making was that the OP wasn't asking for much, he's complaining about not being able to build himself a computer to run a 4 year old game because the model numbers are too confusing.
If Intel caters to him, pretty soon we will see INTEL FAST EDITION, INTEL FASTER EDITION, INTEL SUPER FAST EDITION, INTEL HELLA SUPER FAST EDITION, INTEL HELLA SUPER FAST EDITION 2030.
The thing that bugs me is stuff like the recent Macs with "GT 120" cards in them. What's that? Well, looking around, it PROBABLY means a card that's the same chip as a GeForce 9500 GT. Which is to say, a pretty low-end card. But it's sure not easy to tell.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
Sorry I didn't meant to imply that being a computer scientist intrinsically meant you should understand consumer computer hardware. Just that I'm surprised people that spend that much time working with computers (hardware or theory) don't follow consumer PC hardware to a point where they can assemble a PC. Or at least have some other "geek" friend to ask.
I hope a fellow slashdotter can help me out with a similar problem:
I would like quad core, but at very low power.
Intel has a mobile version of Core2Quad available, that only uses 45W:
penryn qc
What motherboard would be compatible with this?
I have seen "Socket P" motherboards that are advertised as "Core2Duo compatible", but they do not list this processor specifically.
I'm not sure if quad core mobile processor in a desktop case is actually possible, but if it is, I want to try it.
http://www.stolk.org/tlctc
For folks who enjoy building a system from scratch (myself included), it is a bit of a jungle out there. Just like any other complex system, you must take a 'top-down' approach to defining what you want out of a computer, and slowly going down to the actual components. I recently went through this myself, and did have to do a lot of research. This strategy worked well for me:
Overall want: Fast machine that won't break the bank.
Motherboard wants:
No integrated video (I game, so I know I'll be using an external video card, and don't want to waste motherboard real estate, nor generate heat, nor take up resources).
Onboard sound (I usually use a USB headset anyway, so the basic speaker set I have attached won't be used for much).
Onboard LAN (While not great for twitch-gaming, it will work just fine. I play MMOs mostly).
SATA only or one EIDE port (I intended to transplant my current 500GiB hard drive and DVD drive, and upgrade them later, both are already SATA).
At least 1, accessable PCI slot (I have a TV card).
Good Linux compatibility (yes, I game on Linux. This factors in with the items I do/don't want integrated on the motherboard).
2 PCI-E 2.0 x16 slots (later on, I will want to upgrade, and throwing another video card the same as my current one sounds like a pretty neat deal).
Processor Architecture:
Basically boils down to Intel or AMD. I chose AMD, because I'm already running the amd64 version of Kubuntu on my machine with my old computer. This will make transplanting it a little easier, but also AMD has a touch more 'bang-for-the-buck' in most reviews (as in, they are damn high on the graphs review websites make, and they are a lot cheaper than their Intel counterparts). Deciding that, it became a choice of which type of AMD processor that's currently in their production lines. I settled on their Phenom II AM3 95w version. It's one of their 'newest' offerings, and appears to be the direction the company is intending to support. That means I can get an upgrade or 2 out of my motherboard later on. I noted that the Phenom II AM3 needs 2 sticks of RAM to work at it's best, and planned accordingly.
This information allowed me to pick my motherboard, processor, and memory. ATI support on Linux has been poor in the past, and I've grown to favor Nvidia for this reason. I grabbed a single, mid-high Nvidia card that has SLI support.
I will echo what other people have stated above; do not skimp on your power supply. Get something that offers good, stable power to your components. I attempted to cheap out once on a computer I built, and got to watch sparks fly out of the back of the PSU fan because of it (I was under the 450w it was said to support). Usually, go big, go name brand, and look for the "supports SLI or Crossfire" stuff on it, will ensure a decent choice. Also of note, a modular power supply is a very nice touch, but it does add a premium; one I'm willing to pay again after working with the one I just got.
There's a ton of choices out there now for system builders. You can't just buy any motherboard, slap any processor and memory you have lying around into it and expect it to work. Do your research, it's actually more 'fun' to go through the system build now than it was in the past, in my opinion.
A quad-core is only really better than a dual core when your most CPU-intensive application is multithreaded
Or if you want to multitask.
Or if you want to avoid closing applications/tabs before you use others without worrying about them leeching CPU cycles.
Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
How about monotonically increasing "make" and sub-"model" numbers? When speed increases without new features, increment the model. When features increase then increment the make (and possibly reset the model). This is a system that has served consumers well in dozens of fields for decades.
nVidia had it right, prior to the GT* line. For about 8 years all nvidia gpus were numbered XYZZ, with X being the "make", Y being the "model", and ZZ being minor revision numbers. A 5500 is faster than a 5200 with a similar feature set, and faster than a 6200 but with less features, and slower than a 4800 but with more features.
Intel had it right, from the P to the P4, with a PX/YYYY numbering scheme. A P3/800 is faster than a P4/500 but with less features. The celeron line confused things a little, but had a single feature different from the equivalently numbered pentium. But now it's a mess.
However, if you chose to build your own system, there is really only one way to do it: decide what you want to spend, and then buy the best components for the price. This takes all the guess work out of it. For a system like yours, you want to place a premium on CPU and GPU. I'd recommend the Intel Core i5 750 (the difference between the i5 and i7 is the i7 has hyper-threading, the i5 doesn't - but how many apps do you know of that can take advantage of 8 cores?). For GPUs, this chart is invaluable: Tom's Hardware Graphic Card Hierarchy Chart. Since NVIDIA just announced its latest line of cards, the 295 should drop in price relatively soon. From my experience, the GPU should be the most expensive component on your PC. I try to hit the $300 price point. At that price, you will be able to play all the new games at their high settings for at least 2 years, and your system will still be serviceable in 4.
The rest of your components are kind of extraneous. As a general rule, go for more, slower RAM (4 gigs of slower RAM will give you much better performance than 2 of the best). Your mobo will be tied to your CPU, so you won't have a ton of choice there. Avoid boards that cost less than $100 - they are unreliable. Avoid high RPM HDs - they are almost never worth the extra cost.
ok, sure, Im going to buy the low high end anyway.. and while my q9450 is gettin a bit long in the tooth I want to see if the i5 or i7 is worth the upgrade for my needs.
Storm
When I was doing some research for a friend who was looking into an upgrade last week, I came to a pretty straightforward conclusion. The only two processor lines worth putting money into today without worrying that you'll be completely screwed down the road, are the AMD Athlon II/Phenom II series on AM3 motherboards, and the Intel Core i7 processor line on socket 1366. Ignore i3 and i5 which are on socket 1156 like the plague, as the sockets used for those chips aren't likely to be ones that wind up sticking around. The Core X Duo/Quad line is practically dead, and I wouldn't expect any new processor announcements for Socket 775 anymore.
And when I came to that conclusion, AMD was the only choice that made sense. You can get a large percentage of the power in an i7 CPU out of the high-end Phenom II processor (which is identical to the lower-priced Athlon II, only with its L3 cache enabled) for a hell of a lot less money. Plus, you get the benefit of AMD having at least _tried_ to maintain some backwards compatibility in socket designs for the last few years.
I'm on a Core 2 Quad on socket 775 myself, and I know I'll have to re-evaluate all this crap again in about a year and a half or two years.
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
They're still selling a lot of the "pre-core-iWhatever" CPUs though, and the naming scheme for those was just absolutely awful.
Celeron was universally "crap", and it was worse that it was next to impossible to determine which architecture it was. But you could at least have an "avoid Celeron" rule when shopping.
Then Intel just HAD to resurrect the fucking "Pentium" name to describe low-end Core 2 CPUs... That made shopping for Intel CPUs a total nightmare. Was the "Pentium" a POS, or a half decent CPU? You needed a microscope to tell.
Similarly, I get the impression that even within the i3/5/7 series there's already a bit of "weirdness" hidden beyond just the "two different socket types for i7" situation.
Nvidia is at least semi-consistent with their schemes, within a given generation, an increased second digit is better. The annoying things are:
Starting with the 9000 series, NVidia started taking some of the "stragglers" from the previous generation and marking them with a new model number from the new generation. (9800GT = 8800GT, GTS250 = slightly upclocked G92 chipset and not actually a GT200-series chipset...)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Thats like being surprised that a race car driver doesn't know all the models and changes from the big automotive companies.
Do F1 drivers know what changes are being made to 2011 BMW, Toyota, GM, Hyundai/Kia and Fords? Do NASCAR drivers know what is coming out from Mercedes, BMW, Ferrari, Ford?
Can most race car drivers assemble a car motor or can fighter pilots put together a jet engine?
It's also more expensive than every dual-core CPU on the market (more expensive than every single AMD CPU on the market for that matter).
There are other factors to consider besides "showing the most logical cores in Windows", I will leave the mockery of you over that nugget to others.
From hell's heart I fstab at /dev/hdc
New generation graphics cards are usually appallingly expensive so unless it's something entirely new and groundbreaking I don't usually pay very much attention (unless I'm looking at buying a graphics card).
New motherboards and memory technologies again are something I'm only really curious about when looking to buy a new system.
Or if you want to avoid closing applications/tabs before you use others without worrying about them leeching CPU cycles.
If only a process state existed whereby a process could use little or no CPU cycles.... Oh wait, it does!
Is this really the mindset Windows has imposed on supposed tech-savvy individuals these days?
From hell's heart I fstab at /dev/hdc
The only CPU measurement that matters is SPEC. That's an actual calculation of the most complex algorithms people have been able to devise and an explanation of how they work on each CPU. If you want to know which CPU is worth more, check its SPECint or SPECfp numbers.
http://www.spec.org/cpu2006/results/
as so many said before, the important things to look for are a good motherboard and a well-built PSU. Every other decision is sorely based on the amount of money you intend to spend on the new system.
Just look at the price and the wattage consumed. The higher, the better, right?
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
Most brands (ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI, etc) come with decent warranties anyway.
A three-year warranty is nice, but doesn't mean you'll get a motherboard that isn't going to destroy the CPU (or other component) because the voltage regulators crap out. Sure, you get a new motherboard, but you don't get all the other stuff replaced.
Spending $250+ on an enthusiast motherboard with all solid caps for a $500 HTPC project is absurd.
You can get motherboards with that quality of components for far less than that.
$150 will get you this board (which I have, because I want to do some light gaming on my HTPC), and nothing in this category is more than $150, and many are very reliable boards.
But, if you're only spending $500 on an HTPC, you're probably not getting things like a nice case, remote control, BluRay drive, etc., and you're relying on thousands of dollars of server somewhere else for your media storage.
Hang on, one might *want* those tabs/programs to leech cycles in the background, which of course is basically multitasking.
Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
I think the industry should start giving random names to their products.
That way, we shouldn't be mislead by products with numbers in their names.
So, I'm off to get my Intel WLQKIE, and a Nvidia MSNDFS. They are way better than the AMD PLYORM and the Ati BFGVYR.
"A sysadmin is a cross between a detective, a police officer, a gardener, a doctor and a fireman"
Generally no. I got out of the business around 2001/2002. I'd simply built enough machines(personal, business desktop and servers), seen enough hardware(reading over facts/figures/advantages of *insert array type* and so on), pushed enough units out of the door to businesses(upto 10k/mo). That I didn't care to see what hardware was what anymore. I was glad I didn't have to worry about configuring fibre arrays, tinkering around with SCSI chains and wondering why *insert here* wasn't working on the chain but later drives were. Getting screwed around by vendors on mobo prices/cpus/memory at every turn.
I'd had enough, and I simply said that when I was done no more. I built a new machine back about 5mo ago. It ran me $200 in parts(I kept everything else HDD's, CD/DVD Recorder, etc), it's a good mid-range machine. When I went hunting for what I was looking for it still took me 3 days to figure out what was my best options. I actually miss the days when you could plug a Cyrix/AMD/Intel chip into one motherboard and they'd all work. Either by auto-configuration, or by dip switches/jumpers.
Om, nomnomnom...
In today's market, nearly all decent CPU/GPUs will do what you need.
Spend about $150 on your CPU and about $100 on your GPU and you should be good. Anything more is probably at the negative end of the cost benefit curve.
Buy fast ram & a MOBO that can support it.
That's about it.
That's because those numbering schemes don't extend ad infinitum in a reasonable manner.
Besides, what are you going to call the new nehalem aka i7 920, a P6/2600? Because quite frankly at 2.6ghz it's faster than a 3.4ghz dual core, so would a customer get a P5/3400 or a P6/2600? Which is faster? Which is slower? You can't keep using Mhz as the sole indicator of performance hence the new model numbers.
Like I said before, It's hardly a mess, it only becomes a mess if you try to use it to compare to your ancient hardware. A i7 9xx is faster than an i7 8xx which is faster than an i5 and that again is faster than an i3.
Same exact thing with Nvidia, you go from the GT210 to the GT220, GT240, GT250, GTX 260, GTX 275, GTX 285, and GTX 295.
If you want to know the performance difference in absolute terms, there are plenty of guides that compare large rangers of CPUs and GPUs. Guru3d for example has an excellent chart for such purposes, http://www.guru3d.com/article/vga-charts-december-2009/1 Pick your game, check the chart, figure out what you're willing to pay for, done.
it only becomes a mess if you try to use it to compare to your ancient hardware
Since the people asking this question have "ancient hardware", and that "ancient hardware" is anywhere from 2 to 5 years old, and 10%-150% the speed of the hardware we are considering buying, it's a comparison that we need to make.
Also, heaven forbid you try to do cross-vendor AND cross-generation comparisons. How do a nvidia 8800 and gt240 and ati 1800 and 9250 compare to each other? These are all plausible cards to have in a recent or current gaming rig.
[blockquote] Similarly, I get the impression that even within the i3/5/7 series there's already a bit of "weirdness" hidden beyond just the "two different socket types for i7" situation.
[/blockquote]
There indeed is, the LGA 1156 processors support fewer PCI express lanes than the LGA 1366, therefore if you plan on using SLI or Crossfire video cards it would ill advised to go with an LGA 1156 processor. The CPUs are actually quite different.
Either way though, I agree, the previous naming scheme Intel had for the Core 2 processors was a nightmare, the new scheme is much much better.
Game consoles ARE computers. Special purpose computers designed specifically for gaming, but computers nonetheless. They have inputs, outputs, RAM, registers and CPU. Some of them can even run general purpose operating systems.
If he wants to play Oblivion and output it to a big screen TV in the living room, a PS3 or Xbox 360 is a valid choice. They're cheap, no muss no fuss solution.
Sure he could get a Windows box and hook it up, but it would be larger, more noisy and cost more money. Sure, he'd have access to the Oblivion mod community, but tho Out of the box game IS enjoyable even without such things.
I believe this adds a whole new dimension to the compatibility and benchmark question...
Did you just compare assembling a PC from off the shelf components to building a jet engine? I think calling that analogy strained would be the understatement of the year.
Geforce 8800 is equivalent to the GT240, they're practically the same chip. No such thing as an ATI 9250 however.
Again, if you go to my link, look at the chart there, it provides a great point of reference for modern GPUs.
If you're curious about comparing CPUs, take a look at the Anandtech Bench.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?b=2&c=1
Pick the processors you want to compare and you make the decision. There are plenty of tools and resources available for the process of choosing your own components. Probably one of the best is to join a forum of avid enthusiast PC builders (No not PC gaming forums or slashdot, they're morons when it comes to choosing hardware) and ask for their input.
Then Intel just HAD to resurrect the fucking "Pentium" name to describe low-end Core 2 CPUs... That made shopping for Intel CPUs a total nightmare. Was the "Pentium" a POS, or a half decent CPU? You needed a microscope to tell.
Not really, you could tell the difference the same way you tell a P3 from a P4 back in the day. But Celerons, well they did add a D suffix with the Prescott ones, but it caused confusion with the Pentium D.
ANY non-Windows platform*
There. Fixed that for you.
No cause a jet engine is more simple.
No, the idea that someone who uses an advanced tool should know how to build one or put one together is foolish.
besides, it's rude not to help a fellow time traveler nerd who just emerged from the Past and looks to establish a small base in our times.
That's indeed how it feels. I can usually keep up with the high end x86 processors since we normally buy stuff at work throughout the years. Since everything started tanking, we haven't bought any significant amount of new hardware since like 2007. Now it's time to do a big hardware purchase and suddenly you have to buy RAM as multiples of 6? And it makes a significant difference in configuration depending on what "rank" the dimms are?
But don't you at least follow the news a little? When new stuff (CPUs, graphics cards and so on) comes out there's generally a story here on slashdot with links to benchmarks. It's not difficult or time consuming to read a couple articles a month.
But how do you know if it's actually something worthwhile coming out, or a bunch of marketing spin and a clever name like 90% of product announcements are. "Announcing the new Intel Talladega core processors with SuperFlex(tm)!"
Or if you want to avoid closing applications/tabs before you use others without worrying about them leeching CPU cycles.
If only a process state existed whereby a process could use little or no CPU cycles.... Oh wait, it does!
Is this really the mindset Windows has imposed on supposed tech-savvy individuals these days?
It's not too rare that I will find my computer running slow as hell and wonder what is up. A quick look at top shows that firefox is taking up 30% of the cpu, wtf? Oh yeah, my bad...I had a site open that used flash and forgot about it.
I think this is my favorite slashdot comment ever, I don't care if it's trolling and incorrect, I nearly burst out laughing in public. I wish I could mod you up
Or if you want to multitask.
You know what the thing is about multitasking? When they're different tasks, they're rarely all equally CPU-intensive. Usually, one application uses 50%+ of the CPU at any given time, and if that application is not multithreaded, that means 50% of the work will be done by a single core. So a second core is all you need to get the rest of the work done.
Now if you've got a server that spawns dozens or hundreds of identical jobs, then quadcore makes a lot of sense, but for a desktop, but on a desktop, it only makes sense if you know that no single thread is going to be 50% of your CPU load.
In short, how do you buy a computer these days?
Easy!
I walk into the Apple store and wave my credit card around, then I walk out with a nice shiny new computer!
Jokes aside, unless you're trying to build a super-computer, just get a laptop.
No, I will not work for your startup
Skip the googling for reviewing and making sense of ad-laiden hardware sites with 25 pages of graphs.
Find charts and round-ups, gives you a real fast comparission of different hardware.
An example of a 'best graphics card for given money' kind of chart: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-graphics-card,2569.html
Whatever is cheap, and well up the chart will do you just fine.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
What are you talking about? The ATI 9250 was an extremely common budget model back when AGP ruled the scene. You can still buy them new as a cheap deal head capable PCI (not Express) graphics card.
Of course, to make things confusing, it should have never been called the 9250 as it didn't implement DirectX9 in hardware, unlike the ATI 9600/9800 and similar.
For a while, they were still selling the Netburst Pentium 4/Pentium D chips alongside the Pentium Dual Core chips. Extremely confusing, as you wouldn't want the former, but the latter are an okay budget chip. The Pentium D and Pentium Dual-Core are especially easy to confuse.
ark.intel.com
Look up by processors, chipsets, boards, codenames, model names. Includes a ton of stats on each and can also do a comparison.
Or you could read the Bit-Tech system guide . (and/or any of the other similar guides from other tech sites)
Building a PC is trivial. I don't know why you kids try to make it sound like it takes any skill. You don't even have to solder anything, configure any jumpers, rockers or dip switches any more. You just plug a bunch of shit together and it goes.
ok this is a little too ridiculous to continue responding.
Just wanted to let you know that you win the award for most useless post here. Not only does it make no sense, if you try to make sense out of it (which I shouldn't have tried, my fault) it devolves into outright idiocy.
"Computer Science" has very little to do with specific hardware, and more to do with things that work across different hardware.
Not sure why you specified x86, since x64 is more likely and ATOM or ARM are certainly possibilities, although Oblivion won't run.
There are piles of other posters who agree: marketing naming is out of control, and to expect someone to follow every hardware release when their primary occupation is software development is just ignorant.
Assembling a PC was not a requirement - I summarized my question as "How do you buy a PC?"
Your hypothetical 14 year old is what makes me certain you are a troll. "Any competent 14 year old" implies you mean competent in building computers, which is as tautological as you can get. The average 14 year old has no idea what parts even make up a computer, so you'll have to limit yourself to a very small subset for that to be remotely true.
Finally, for this 14 year old to accomplish this in an afternoon, you're going to require living within an hour's drive of a well-stocked computer parts store, or prior ordering from an internet site.
All it takes is a single mismatch so your processor doesn't even fit in the mobo, your DDR3 memory isn't supported, overlooking a missing HDMI or DVI port, mixing up AGP and PCI-E, and far more subtle things like the mobo doesn't support CPU or GPU functionality, and the whole thing falls apart.
Posts like this which gloss over the Intel VT issues were in the running for most idiotic post as well. Once I understand, it makes sense. Thanks, that helped. I should have just meditated and the spirit of jon3k will enlighten me once I attain oneness with the electrons.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1575698&cid=31428544
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1575698&cid=31415088
You, sir, are fired from the internet. Go pick up cross-stitching or pinochle and let the adults speak.
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php
Here's a good place to start, find out if the games you want to play are actually playable, figure out what the minimum requirements are. most likely whatever is in your budget will be able to handle it. http://cyri.systemrequirementslab.com/CYRI/intro.aspx