Slashdot Mirror

This question will never make it to the President, but I'd like to know how he responds to the arguments against the Iraq invasion presented by Brent Scowcroft in 2002 (http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.h tml?id=110002133)
Or George Bush Senior's statement in 1998 that invading Iraq would have "incalculable human and political costs" (http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/gulfwar.asp ) He also said "Whose life would be on my hands as the commander-in-chief because I, unilaterally, went beyond the international law, went beyond the stated mission, and said we're going to show our macho?" he asked. "We're going into Baghdad. We're going to be an occupying power -- America in an Arab land -- with no allies at our side. It would have been disastrous. We don't gain the size of our victory by how many innocent kids running away -- even though they're bad guys -- that we can slaughter. ... We're American soldiers; we don't do business that way." (http://www.fas.org/news/iraq/1999/03/a19990303bus h.htm)
Or Dick Cheney's assessment in 1991 (http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/pubs/soref/che ney.htm)in which he said that "I think the proposition of going to Baghdad is fallacious," that invading would get the U.S. "bogged down in a quagmire," and that "Saddam Hussein's offensive military capability, his capacity to threaten his neighbors, has been virtually eliminated."
I want to know how the President (or anyone else, really) can reconcile the 2003 invasion of Iraq with these pronouncements. Obviously the situation has changed over the years, but it clearly has not changed enough to prevent the situation that Cheney described.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/hurricane.asp

Its sad that people believe and post this BS without any skeptcism whatsoever...*sigh*

Back in the early days of the space program, NASA spent tens of thousands of dollars on research to develop a pen that would write in zero gravity. The Russians used a five cent pencil.

No, no they didn't.

while perhaps false.
spacepen

The leason is not...

SOOOOOOOO nice of you to go off on some for no REAL reason.

Even if everyone on the entire planet has seen a work and can recite it from memory, the work is still protected by copyright until it expires.

Good example: the "Happy Birthday" song, which is copyrighted. That's why when somebody has a birthday at a restaurant, the employees have to sing their own dumb little song to embarrass the poor fool.

And it won't kill you to read this.

> Rather they are a stat for the numbr of people on unemployment.

Incorrect.

It sure is hot down here

And copyright terms, while arguably well overextended, are still limited - so those paragraphs you wasted on that pomposity are likewise utterly moot.

So far as Lennon.. I suggest you do some research. So far as mechanical rights, Apple still controls most of the beatles recorded catalog, and... well, go ask Steve Jobs who runs that show and if the remaining beatles have any stake those recordings and Apple Corps... even if the masters are still owned by one of those big, evil, corporations.

That's not correct. From http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/unemploy.htm Although this belief is widespread and has at times been reported as factual in the mainstream media, the truth of the matter is that unemployment statistics are gathered through a process of sampling a representative number of households; they are not arrived by counting the number of unemployment insurance claims made during a particular month. Data collected in the Current Population Survey (CPS), a monthly survey of over 60,000 households, is used for this purpose. From this data, an extrapolation is made about the unemployment status of the country as a whole.

See, the text you just posted says NOTHING to contradict what you were trying to contradict. So I choose to pick 60,000 households to get my number from, big deal. I can STILL fuck with the numbers By counting the people in those house as not unemployed, even though they don't have jobs.

The reality of the situation is that the Bush admistration has redfined what constitutes "unemployed".

The text you posted is nothing but a bait-and-switch argument. Snopes doesn't give you enough information to actually show that the claim they're refuting is false, nor does the page the're linking
It's like me saying, "Look a Corvette!"
And you responding, "No, it's blue."
And then a third party coming along based upon only hearing the conversation and note actually seeing the car, claiming it most definately not a Corvette. The reality is that there has been no information presented to you that proves it's not a Corvette.

Additionally, do NOT trust snopes as a sole source for information.
For example, this article is flat out worng:
link

I have emailed them with multiple refences which seem to support that Charles Proteus Steinmetz, did indeed perform the feat in question.
(Not just web links, one of these is a historical sidenote from an advanced math book I used at Cornell.)
Nonetheless, the snopes article was not changed at all. I dodn't think that particular article is a huge deal or anything, but the lack of change to the pages or even a reply to my email, makes seriously doubt the intellectual rigor of any "investigation" they do.

If you've been unemployed for more than 6 months, you drop off the charts because you're considered a lost cause

Not so.

That *may* be the case for state and local unemployment figures, but it is not the case for national figures : http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/unemploy.htm

They don't count people who're no longer collecting unemployment and have simply given up.

That's not correct. From http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/unemploy.htm

Although this belief is widespread and has at times been reported as factual in the mainstream media, the truth of the matter is that unemployment statistics are gathered through a process of sampling a representative number of households; they are not arrived by counting the number of unemployment insurance claims made during a particular month. Data collected in the Current Population Survey (CPS), a monthly survey of over 60,000 households, is used for this purpose. From this data, an extrapolation is made about the unemployment status of the country as a whole.

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.htm

The size of the US Space Shuttle was actually determined by . . . .the width of a Roman Chariot which by no coincidence was determined by the width of the two horses that pulled the chariots.

Sure, Snopes seems to think "Happy Birthday to You" is still copyrighted and owned by Time Warner. But it may not be different enough from an earlier song called "Good Morning to All", whose U.S. copyright has already expired, to be considered a distinct work worthy of a separate copyright.

Well as it turns out 'Happy Birthday To You' is still copyrighted. For more information head over here and read the article. From the looks of it the song will be copyrighted until 2030.

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/bush.htm

When you hear something that sounds implausable like that, no matter how much you want to believe it, make sure you check it in Snopes before repeating it on the web.

Please. As if that one incident determines everything. That's another thing I am very tired of in modern politics. One stupic moment *becomes* everything we need to know about a person. As much as I am not a Kerry supporter, I am sick of hearing how he throws a baseball like a girlie man. So what?

But anyway:

1. Think about the age of the person involved. When he was a lowly working guy, there was no such thing as a laser scanner. By the time someone is President, I'm fairly happy to have him or her delegate shopping to someone else.

2. Furthermore, that vignette has been thoroughly debunked.

Radical leftists, "activists" and other revolutionary types love to make stink about FOX News, but you don't see them being caught trying to influence the outcome of the election by passing off counterfeit documents, do you?

Oh, don't you?

That photo was shown repeatedly on Fox News' Brit Hume, Hannity & Colmes, and John Gibson's shows. And no, they never retracted or apologized for it.

We live in a time that supports conservative views

Actually, we live in a time that supports liberal views.

put a frog in boiling water and they will jump right out but put that same frog in cold water and slowly raise the temperature...

Incorrect, actually.

No doubt you want the same treatment for Hannity & Fox News for extensively showing forged photos of John Kerry?

You know that lemmings do not in fact commit mass suicide, right? You didn't? Guess you must be one of those "average /. reader[s]".

Asshat.

My motorbike lock uses a flat key, has a master lock style steel laminate construction and hexagonal cross section U bend. It was made in the early 1990s. They knew what made a lock hard to break but it's soooo heavy.

I googled for the Tytler article after I wrote the first reply to this post, and found this, which suggests Tytler didn't write it, and that there's not such thing as "The decline and fall of the Athenian republic". I'm not claiming that snopes.com is authoritative, or right, but it's interesting that I have a semi-recollection that's consistent with snopes.

It's also interesting that the passage was widely quoted by the right...in the context of the snopes article, it sounds like it's an argument against a welfare state...now that I think about it, I seem to remember it being more about tax cuts than spending, but maybe I'm just making this up.

Anyway, I'm not disagreeing with the point, only saying that there's something a little funny going on...I think someone read the same thing I did, worked it into a bigger argument, and attributed it to Tytler.

Link for the befuddled.

Given that Bush has been caught in a stream of lies; outright lies and lies of omission (as well as blatent attempts to mislead the American voters and vast distortions), it's not "partisan" to say he's a liar. It's a statement of fact.

I love snopes.com. I hope it suits your criteria that mostly clears up the controversy.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp

Sources are listed at the bottom of each link and be sure to check out the rest of the Kerry and Bush articles. I think you'll find it's relatively balanced.

I love snopes.com. I hope it suits your criteria that mostly clears up the controversy.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp

Sources are listed at the bottom of each link and be sure to check out the rest of the Kerry and Bush articles. I think you'll find it's relatively balanced.

I love snopes.com. I hope it suits your criteria that mostly clears up the controversy.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp

Sources are listed at the bottom of each link and be sure to check out the rest of the Kerry and Bush articles. I think you'll find it's relatively balanced.

I love snopes.com. I hope it suits your criteria that mostly clears up the controversy.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp

Sources are listed at the bottom of each link and be sure to check out the rest of the Kerry and Bush articles. I think you'll find it's relatively balanced.

Wait a minute... Haven't America Online and Microsoft been working together on an e-mail tracking technology called Sender-ID for a while now?

I hear Intel is getting in on the action too.

Just for the record, my intention wasn't to equate the voracity of the two quotations. I was merely pointing out that the choice of words in the new quote triggered a reflex memory of the old one. The Sun guy's claim is right, but it's quite an alarming image through which to publicise a bit of software. A bit like, "Drink Coke -- capable of dissolving your teeth overnight!"

I'd point out that it's never been proven that Iraq actually violated the terms of the cease fire- only that Saddam wanted to.

The next time you use a bottle of Heinz ketchup (catsup) for your "freedom fries", check to see where it has been bottled. (Hint: it's probably not inside the U.S.)

My bottle of Heinz ketchup says

MFD. IN U.S.A. BT HEINZ NORTH AMERICA
DIVISION OF H.J. HEINZ CO., L.P., PITTSBURGH, PA 15222

Snopes agrees.

Now, I may be wrong, but my understanding is that the series is called the World Series because it was originally sponsored by the US magazine World Report. Can anybody confirm this for me?

Snopes says false.

Might be more urban legend than real. It's also something that gets attributed to Niels Bohr, and sometimes Rutherford is involved in the story (as the impartial arbitrator).

So DID Americans at one point in history
Henry Ford

You are more right than you know... Hitler's Goering said http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.htm/ "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." -- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

Time to put my asbestos boxers into good service again...

There are two congressional pieces of legislation proposing a return to the draft (and law dictates it has to come from Congress, not the President). Both were proposed by Democrats, (Charles Rangel of New York, and Ernest Hollings of South Carolina). And both will die quiet deaths by commitee (both have already been there since early 2003), because the only real purpose they serve is to allow the proposers more air time in a crucial election year, where one of the big differences between party platforms is the war.

Enlistment is very high this year. The Air Force is forced to retire people early because they already have more than their lawfully allowable quota in service, and every service is forced to make its potential recruits wait for long periods of time before a position at boot camp becomes available (for example, app. 6-8 months for the Navy at the moment). Not only this but the military has stolidly refused to support or give credence to a new peacetime draft. The US military is what it is today because it is a volunteer force, and will do everything in its power to keep things that way.

Furthermore, the number of troops in Iraq is largely a political matter: the former Chaiman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Hugh Shelton, is believed to have been forced into early retirement because he disagreed with the Bush administration policy of sending so few troops. National Guardsmen and Reservists have been called to duty not because of shortages of manpower at the front lines, but because of shortages in key specialties-including transportation, medical, and maintenance-which have long been relegated to the reserves because of budgetary restraints brought about by the end of the Cold War.

You have very little to worry about. Although if either of these proposers happen to be in a district you live in, why don't you write them a letter?

Further reading as per Google:

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/wars/a/draft2.htm
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/wars/a/draft.htm
http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/draft.asp

Ever seen the TV show mythbusters? It's like snopes for TV. Anyway, they took the myth about the Corvette that smelled so bad that no one could clean it or sell it. They took two dead pigs and sealed them up in a Vette and sealed the whole thing up in a shipping container for a few weeks. Then tried to clean it.

They got a professional crew in, guys that clean out ambulances, crime scenes, etc. The car still reeked at the end of the show, and wound up getting sold for the engine & transmission.

You may be stuck with the stench. OK, random bad jokes : give them to PETA/ADL/vegan society. Give them to Cowboy Neal, no one will notice them over his stench.

What a coincidence to see this topic on Slashdot seeing as I just saw this exact topic on MythBusters the other day. In the episode (Season 2 Ep. 07, "Stinky Car"). The MythBusters are attempting to confirm the legend of the "Car so smelly it can't be sold".

The MB crew decided that a whole pig, rotting in the front seat would be the best emulation for a dead human body (as described in the myth/legend).

After consulting with professionals, they discovered the best and perhaps only way to COMPLETELY remove the smell of decaying organic matter is to use ENZYME-based cleaners that essentially digest the particles of matter.

At this point it should be noted that a by product of the decaying/decayed animal is Amonia, which is not only smelly, but potentially poisonous.

Unfortunately, the MB crew also concluded that no matter how powerful the enzyme wash, unless you get ALL the decaying matter out, the smelly thing will still smell. In the case of the car, they would have had to take the car entirely apart and washed each individual component in an enzyme wash, which is not cost effective by any means.

Snopes also says Mr. Ed was a Zebra

http://www.snopes.com/lost/mistered.asp

Snopes isn't always right.

Entertaining, but untrue. If Bill Timmins ever replied to Michael Moore's open letter, it was never made public.

Here's the proof for those that are interested.

On that note, the crashed probe looks very much like a UFO :)

I am currently counting down days till I receive one or more of these pics forwared as chain email that claims a UFO crashed in Utah/Arizona/Texas/Nevada, and the guys standing by the helicoptor are from NASA/The Pentagon/The CIA. The whole incident was covered up, and these photographs were leaked from a website/retrieved from the camera of a witness who later dissapeared.

Seriously, people have been fooled into believing that these stills from Armageddon are actually pictures of Space Shuttle Columbia blowing up.

Snopes says the landfill story is true.

From http://www.snopes.com/business/market/atari.asp

"...Atari, stuck with millions of games and consoles that were largely unsellable at any price, sent fourteen truckloads of merchandise from their plant in El Paso, Texas, to be dumped in a city landfill in Alamogordo, New Mexico in late September 1983. In order to keep the site from being looted, steamrollers crushed and flattened the games, and a concrete slab was poured over the remains."

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.htm

Dammed Beavers

The story on the draft is hiding lots of details. See this story. This leads me to believe that some of the other censored stories might be a little far-fetched too. If reinstatement of the draft was looming, the media would be all over it. Same with the rest of these stories IMHO