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FWIW, Ubuntu wasn't too hard to install on a Mac Mini. I'm curious: what distro did you have trouble with?

Here's a guide that looks good for a Macbook Pro:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=198453

Just sharing what worked for me - good luck. Macs make for very nice Linux machines. (I have to use Linux for a project.)

Wifi is still a big issue.

It took me about 8 hours to get my Linksys card to function.

I tried ndiswrapper for hours before finding a site that stated in broken English that it would not work with this chipset(Ralink RT61) and the current Linksys driver. Eventually after getting some driver source code from Ralink and typing dozens of cryptic commands into Ubuntu 7.04 while enabling and disabling various network settings it works about 75% of the time I boot and there is a 5 second delay before every new page begins to load in Firefox. Needless to say I boot into Windows for any web-related activity.

Judging by this poll most people can not get wireless working at all: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=419905

Of those who did a clean 7.04 install only 20% had wireless networking function straight away while 56% could never get it to work.

Have you tried this? It worked for me :)

Linux runs pretty well on the Macbook Pro's: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBook

I have mine setup to dual boot using boot camp. I'd like to eliminate OS X altogether though and I think people have found ways to use grub instead of boot camp. I gave up my 30in monitor before I had a chance to get Linux to work with it, but it should work on it fine using Xinerama. It'd take a bit of tweaking of the xorg.conf though, you won't be able to just plug it in and go with it yet.

Also check out the Apple Intel Ubuntu forums: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=211

I guess I could try to run Linux on the Mac hardware, but I'm worried so few people probably do that, I would be in relatively uncharted waters and have lots of problem.

Except that it doesn't.

> - urlfilter with opera ( http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=273931&cid=202 90857 ) is quite good, and a good find

Well, I tried it in Freespire linux (copied to $HOME/.opera/urlfilter.ini), also installed hosts file from http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=273931&cid=202 94125
and still I see ads on some pages. Urlfilter has over 1000 lines, and Ad Muncher has over 4000.
So, current rank:
1. Opera urlfilter - some ads gone
2. Firefox AdBlock - many ads gone
3. Ad Muncher - most, if not all ads gone

I don't know how good is Opera urlfilter capabilities vs AdBlock Plus, can they be joined together.
What is the best blocklist for AdBlock Plus? Url?

About Linux:
I really like Freespire Linux, because watching videos with LBrowser (modified Firefox): Windows Media (watching news), Quicktime (trailers etc), Flash and Java works.
Got my Jabra BT620s bluetooth headset working in bluez-sco, skype and xmms, but not in LBrowser yet. When listening podcast I hear hiss with every s spoken, but maybe by compiling newer version of it I can get it fixed. Hmm, just found GUI tool for bluez-sco, on the bottom of page:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2705335
and got xmms working from page
http://wiki.bluez.org/wiki/HOWTO/AudioDevices
that says xmms menu: options->preferences->Output Plugin->Configure: "bluetooth"
VMware player takes too much processing power so laptop gets too noisy, so I'll try to get wine or crossover working. CrossOver Linux trial was strangely very slow with Freespire, so haven't got some windows apps installed.

...you're yet another Linux zealot who takes everything as an attack.

If I may diffidently suggest, the common participant in every argument you've ever had is... you. If you keep having the same arguments, it's at least conceivable that you have something to do with that.

it was refreshing to find one user who didn't have his head so far up his ass that he couldn't have an honest conversation. I even mentioned to him how he may be able to help spread Linux.

Oh, you mean here? Ah, yes, no one has ever thought of handing out LiveCDs before. Good one!

But let's see what you say in that comment: "I guess that's the catch-22. Linux needs big software to get the user base that it take to make it worth big software's investments to support Linux." And let's see what I had to say: "But there really is a chicken-and-egg problem in the desktop arena, and just saying 'Y'all need to try harder' isn't going to cut it... there still aren't many commercial games for Linux, because there isn't a big market for Linux games, in part because... there aren't many commercial games for Linux. That's a real problem, and that's what I and others are referring to when talking about the trouble of invading a monopoly market."

I guess I will keep thinking that. You certainly seem to, though you don't appear to recognize it when it's not stated in precisely your wording...

I think you mean this

You're right, I made a mistake. In my post I said that I had almost all file sharing switched on, and then I could see my harddisk with my Linux PC. That was wrong, I had it switched off. Only Samba and sshd were running. My sincere apologies for this stupid typing error and the confusion it caused. The fact that I could see my whole harddisk on my Linux PC even with Personal File Sharing switched off still puzzles me. I'm certain it was not a samba issue.

The password handling problems of Samba in OSX are known, see here, here, and here. I hope that will be fixed in Leopard.

I went here http://ubuntuforums.org/ and typed Automatix into the search box.
And the result was:

" The following errors occurred with your search:

      1. Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.

            The following words are either very common, too long, or too short and were not included in your search : automatix"

I'm just a stupid user trying to find information on ubuntuforums.org about automatix.

What's your problem?

Did someone tell you to expect a check but didn't warn you that you had to deposit it with a bank in order to use it?

Besides, you are a fine one to be bitching that the meaning of a word has changed due to popular usage.

Fiddlesticks. It /is/ the distro for noobs -- just have a look at the Absolute Beginner Talk section of Ubuntu Forums for proof.
http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=73

Oh, and did you try the exact same test on Windows? Hm? Take an Ubuntu machine and try loading XP or Vista on it to dual boot? Good luck with that.

Now try the other way around, which nearly every single one of those noobs on ABT has done for their personal set-up. Which method is hard and under-documented again?

Troll-feeding done, I will agree that Ubuntu isn't all unicorn-flavoured ice cream. There are enought small trials that it is not "ready for the desktop" when that means ready-for-grandma-sixpack-flying-solo. And neither is Windows! You have to be very savvy to have a stable and secure Windows install. And at least with Ubuntu the system is secure while the user becomes a savvy personal computer user.

Or use getlibs:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=474790

The only down side is that it isn't integrated into dpkg/apt-get so it isn't automatic.

Try out a LiveCD of Ubuntu or Kubuntu to see how well your hardware works (which should all work based on what you've said).

For image editting, on Kubuntu (or any KDE-based distribution really), try out Krita which is a lot more similar to Photoshop than Gimp ever will be. There is also cinepaint for an Aperture-like program.

For video editting, there's Kino and Cinelerra (I don't believe this is in the repository, so installing it isn't as easy as tick the box -> install). There is also Avidemux, but that seems to be more suited for small edits and transcoding videos (GNOME program as well, not that it matters if you don't care about desktop environments).

For office, check out KOffice (faster and better than OpenOffice.org).

For video, you can still use VLC of course, but you can also check out Kaffeine with libxine1-ffmpeg and the win32 codecs (download at http://www.mplayerhq.hu/design7/dload.html, get the essential codecs, extract to /usr/local/lib/codecs/; there is probably an easier way to do this via EasyUbuntu or something like that, but this is how I normally do it) for support for everything ever.

If you need more help, you can contact me via Jabber (in profile), or you can go on IRC (Konversation's a good client for that) on Freenode at #kubuntu. There are also the Ubuntu Forums as well as alt.os.linux.ubuntu (for some reason, I can't find the group on Google Groups, but it's available in AT&T's Usenet mirror). The community is very friendly and helpful, so don't be shy!

Well, I had an abnormal experience of ATI/nVidia - I had an nVidia 7300LE (fairly low end, I know) in my 64-bit Ubuntu box (which was also, in an attempt to get a working driver, a Debian, Fedora, Mandrake and even Gentoo box, in various stages). 3D definitely did not 'just work' - the 3D acceleration drivers had this ugly habit of making xorg take 6 and a half minutes to start up. The relevant thread on ubuntuforums can be found here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=484455 I'm now running an ATI X600 - it's massively superior, in terms of functionality. The control panel leaves a lot to be desired (the general impression of being in control would be a good start), but it works, and it's acceptable. I do fluxus-based 3D livecoding, which takes a lot out of the graphics card: as such, I need it to be able to cope with some hardcore abuse. I'm not massively pro-ATI or pro-nVidia: the most functional product will get my money, as far as I'm concerned. I don't really care if it's GPL'ed or not, truth be told. Binary blobs suck, but shit happens. Get over it. Until someone out there can keep up with the graphics card industry in terms of writing decent GPL'ed drivers, I'll happily use the blobs.

Probably, but since this desktop runs on xulrunner/firefox it will likely eat up 1GB+ ram by itself, ignore the system themes, render ugly fonts, render ugly buttons (there is a workaround), freeze often when trying to open new windows/apps/etc, and make Win95 seem like a rock solid desktop.

This does sound like an interesting idea, though. Hopefully someone will implement an alternative with Webkit (there is a GTK+ port in progress).

#1
Old January 18th, 2007
tweedledee tweedledee is online now
Way Too Much Ubuntu

Join Date: Dec 2006
Beans: 252
Ubuntu 7.04 Feisty Fawn User
HOWTO Install Samsung Unified Printer Driver
I had a fair amount of trouble initially getting my Samsung printer installed completely, but I finally have it all done, so here's a mini-guide for those who might benefit.

NOTE: for the last few months, the Samsung website has been utilizing some buggy Flash code that will crash many (all?) Linux browsers that have Flash installed - hopefully they will fix this soon, but they don't seem in any hurry. Either use a secondary browser that does not have the Flash plugin installed (e.g., if you mainly use Firefox, you could use Epiphany (Gnome) or Konqueror (KDE)) or download the drivers via another computer/OS. Alternatively, again if you use Firefox, you can install the "flashblock" extension, usually this prevents the crash (and is useful for many of the other websites that have been appearing recently causing the same behavior, although it's not 100% successful).

EDIT: The newest (as of this writing) driver from Samsung (20070324...) appears to solve some of the mfp/xsane issues, but also appears to missing a couple of library files. See post #23 for details. Also see posts #27-29 for details on ...plc errors and solutions.
Post #35 suggets the 200704.... drivers have resolved this issue, so this may now be irrelevant.

First, a disclaimer: much of the information I used came from this thread: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=28774 7. Another good source of information is http://www.linuxprinting.org./ Finally, I did this using the 20060719... and 20070125.... drivers; newer (or older) drivers may require some tweaks. Also, especially if you have a monochrome, non-duplexing, non-multifunction printer, you very well may have success with a generic post-script printer as a driver, without having to install the Samsung drivers. Also note that for my printer, pretty much all functions except duplex control worked even if I skipped steps 2-4 below (i.e., don't install the driver, only the relevant .ppd file) - which also has the advantage of not needing to fix xsane (additional step 2).

This works for my CLP-550; similar steps seem to work for other Samsung printers not supported out-of-the-box with the drivers available in a fresh Ubuntu install. This is NOT a multi-function, multi-functions may require additional steps (but are discussed in other threads, a quick search should bring them up). Posts below from other users have reported sucess (sometimes with a couple of small modifications) with: ML-2510 (# 5, 14, 16, 26), ML-2510/XEU (# 18 ), ML-2571n (# 12), SCX-4200 (# 10), SCX-4521F (# 11), CLP-300 (# 35).

1. Download and untar the driver from Samsung's website; for this example I will assume you untar it to ~.
2. Open a terminal and navigate to ~/cdroot/Linux. I had to "chmod +w install.sh" to give write permissions, but that may be unusual. Edit install.sh as follows:
a: change the first line from "#! /bin/sh" to "#! /bin/bash" (without the quotes)
b (possibly not needed): change the line that includes "guiinstall.bin" (search for it, it's around line 1277) to eliminate the ".bin" (i.e

I also agree with you though that linux distros should be automatically building in some sort of tripwire type setup to protect important system segments from scripts that are like this.

One buddy posted on Ubuntu forums:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=500702

You're welcome!

Ah, one thing I forgot to mention: if you do go with Ubuntu, make sure you scan the unusually user-friendly and clear documentation and use the Ubuntu Forums when you need help. There are thousands of members logged on at any given time, and most of them are friendly and polite. These Ubuntu people... they've got this weird idea that normal people should be able to use Linux...

Can you tell I'm a fan?

Besides being pleasantly surprised at how the community has changed, you'll also be pleasantly surprised at how little you have to muck about on the command line. I haven't had to recompile a kernel in years, for example, nor manually edit the X configuration file. The default setups are generally usable and secure, and if you need to change something, there's almost always a GUI for it.

As far as VMWare goes - yes, do it, but burn an Ubuntu install CD first and boot from it normally. It doubles as a live CD, so you can get some idea how well your hardware is supported.

Did I miss the link to the ancient thread where UbuntuDupe originally asked for help? It seems like a lot of people are unduly familiar with it.

• Original Thread
• More recent thread on Slashdot by LeonGeeste aka UbuntuDupe.

While I do agree with all your points, I'd like to stress one: the community. Ubuntu has really managed to get people going - UbuntuGuide, UbuntuForums, Full Circle Magazine etc. So I'd say the Ubuntu phenomenon is in skilled management plus great community.

sudo apt-get install gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly

Within these articles you can dig a little deeper and see how many MS posts they make from their profile history. I.E.: http://ubuntuforums.org/search.php?searchid=228391 45

While I believe that opinion can promote developing better technologies, a slanted opinion with no intrinsic value whatsoever takes a lot away from the overall quality of what that community is trying to do.

Within these articles you can dig a little deeper and see how many MS posts they make from their profile history. I.E.: http://ubuntuforums.org/search.php?searchid=228391 45

While I believe that opinion can promote developing better technologies, a slanted opinion with no intrinsic value whatsoever takes a lot away from the overall quality of what that community is trying to do.

Not all open source projects are Linux related, but I think some of the lowest learning curves to getting into open source development and learning the jargon are found on Linux forums such as the Gentoo Forums or the Ubuntu Forums. You don't have to deal with mailing list etiquitte and you don't have to learn how IRC works, but you can get exposed to a lot of open source projects, particularly the popular ones, which tend to have better documentation and are more newbie friendly.

Windows seems to have been fine tuned so it's hard to get into this situation and easy to get out of it. You probably already have a license to run it too ;-)

What happens if you do an Alt F1 to get a virtual console? That should flip the screen to text mode, then you could log in an edit xorg.conf.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=83973

I don't think he was talking about the drivers as much as stuff like CNR.

If you are in Education, and you want to migrate your school's computers so that open-source is at least an option, be warned. There really can be a whole lot of resistance. I have to agree with what I read here in that respect. I really did put my job on the line when I wiped out my first 9 licensed computers to replace them with open-source alternatives. The district-level IT coordinators put up a bit of a fight.

Although I'm in agreement that Novel can easily be phased out, I do use the Linux client. It isn't easy to bring online, and if your primary net device is listed as anything other that 'ETH0' you have to reprogram and recompile the thing, but Novel access through Linux works. Here's a more detailed look if you are interested:

Novel on Linux How To

At this point in time my feeling is that it's probably more realistic to offer teachers and students a choice, and then educate them about what's involved with that choice. If they want to use Windows, and your school district has a healthy tax-base, by all means purchase the license and allow them to do so. I can tell you this. When I offered the choice last year, the Linux seats were hot real estate. The kids love it.

Here's a video with one of my students:
Eject!

Josh Beck
IT Coordinator
Interactive Media Applications at Krueger Middle School
Northeast ISD
San Antonio, Texas

You want to improve fonts? Go here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=343670

This will show you how to make your fonts look sweet.

Now my fonts render better than they do in XP! :-)

Oh, I picked the headline mostly to be cute/amusing/eyecatching. I'll fully admit that.

But considering they include a seperate FreeDOS partition on the Ubuntu machines full of diagnostic tools[1], your argument doesn't really hold water. They use the same diagnostic tools as before, just apparently have you reboot to do all the tests instead of opening a command-prompt. And all of the hardware available for Ubuntu machines is available for Windows machines as well. So, again, no extra training needed besides an Ubuntu-specific prefix of 'please reboot into the diagnostic software' as far as I can see.

This also not a troll... I just figure that the people that read this thread might find this relevant.

I had a hellish time installing ATI drivers for my laptop with a Radeon Xpress 200M chipset on Ubuntu Edgy and Feisty.

I ended up following the instructions at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=321766 and it worked great.

The instructions are written for Ubuntu Edgy, but they also work for Feisty if you use a newer driver from ATI's site and adjust the instructions accordingly. The instructions seem generic enough that they should work for other distros as well, although I don't want to be quoted on that.

create an empty file in the player's root directory named .is_audio_player and enjoy with programs like Rhythmbox. This was the piece I couldn't find for a long time when trying to get my Sansa e260 to work nicely. Oh yeah, also make sure it's in UMS mode. source

I had a similar problem with a Cowon D2 and rhythmbox. I'd plug it in, it would mount, but rhythmbox never saw it. I found this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=312196 basically just create an empty file .is_audio_player on the root of the device and rhythmbox will recognize it when you plug it in. I believe this only works in mass storage mode.

They should be for all Intel cards, and packaged together with X.org. As a point of reference, more than a year ago (when XGL was new), I tried out the Korrora Livecd on my friend's laptop with an Intel 855GM (or maybe 852GM, I don't remember now), and it ran all the fancy 3D effects quite well.

You could also check the Ubuntu forums, you might be hitting a problem similar to this.

There is no update to FF 2 for Ubuntu 6.06. It will stay at FF 1.5, and the dapper-backports also don't have an update. Your options are to upgrade Ubuntu 6.06 to a newer distro release, or to upgrade to FF2 by not using an Ubuntu package: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=330386

I can't find the one I used before (the browsing history is on my boss' computer), but here's another I tried, and it didn't work either:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=5645

As far as the average home user goes, just about anything you need can be found within 10 minutes on the forums or various tutorials and how-tos via google.

Paid support from Canonical (source):

9-5: $250/yr (USD)
24x7: $900/yr (USD)

Another poster mentioned the option of installing a 32-bit firefox and libraries.

But there's a better option:
Install Flash9 in 64-bit firefox using ndiswrapper. See the Ubuntu forums:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=341727

It might look a little daunting, but I found it pretty straight-forward, and my browser has been rock-solid.
In summary, I'm running flash inside a 64-bit browser in 64-bit Ubuntu Feisty Fawn (orig under Edgy Eft)

YMMV, but I think it rocks! Good luck :-)

Installing any OS is for geeks. Non-geeks use the pre-installed OS or get someone else to install for them. You can buy PCs with Ubuntu installed.

I agree the Ubuntu partition tool is not very good. However, it is a one-off problem. Do a bit of Googling and its solved, and you do not have to think about it again.

If you want to give it another try read:

http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/partitioning
http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/ubuntu-help/59797 -confusing-partition-tables.html
http://users.bigpond.net.au/hermanzone/p2.htm
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=179902

and a lot more

BTW, Mandriva and Mepis are also pretty good for non-geek users. All have live-CDs you can try out.

Ubuntu is fantastic if you manage to have a chunk of hardware which works out of the box with it, if however you don't you're in a world of pain (then again all linux distro's suffer this)

I've been fiddling with Ubuntu as a mid-range user since 5.04 and had all kinds of joys and problems with it.
See initially my ipw2200 card wouldn't work at all.
Then I figured out how to get it working, WEP only mind you but working.
Eventually I got an RT2500 which worked easier, but still fiddly and WPA = pain.
I also picked up an Atheros PCMCIA card, this worked for my intended purpose (wardriving) but again WPA was a fiddle.

With each subsequent release of Ubuntu the way to get things working has changed, I've had to re-read updated how-to's and so on at the Ubuntu forums.
I ended up sticking with 6.06 because that particular version I could hook up my ethernet cable for internet and use my atheros card for wardriving my apartment block, however upgrading the version of firefox, well frankly I was embaressed at how tricky it was, I tried using Synaptic but it didn't give me a newever version and I knew if I marked all upgrades it would give me 6.10 at the time.

I ended up finding another chap on the Ubuntu forums who had exactly the same problem, some guy came to our rescue and gave us a script to run, I felt like a tool but for the life of me I couldn't do it manually, I ran his script and it worked fine, I don't think the chap rooted us, very good of him, great community.

Now another problem, if I recall was when I was on 6.06 and DID try to grab the 6.10 updates, it borked my ability to use kismet, I think there was a driver change for the Atheros card.
(Don't quote me exactly but I recall something which was working before I upgraded, then - dead)
Either way some of you guys post how awesome it is your parents are working fine or grandparents and you just remotely update them once a week, I have to cast some doubt on that based on my experiences, once it's working don't fix it seems to be the best for me.

Finally to sum up my problems, I've grabbed 7.04, it looks fantastic, this new graphical effect is nice and I'm not normally one for graphical effects (Vista, ugh) however there's 'glitchy' lines on the ATI Mobility 9600 range of laptop cards (I believe specific to Dell's revision) ARGH!
(More information here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=414740 )
So I have to use the bad drivers, I forget the term, I think it's closed source or binary but there's a different name used for them (restricted?). this kills the nice 3D effects.
A chap sent me a link to a tutorial on how to get the 3D effects working in XGL (or something?) but good lord, it wasn't a short tutorial, I haven't had the balls to try it yet.

I like Ubuntu, I like it being free.
I like the interface, I like Firefox and Open office, but honestly I can't 100% switch to it yet, maybe I don't research hard enough but I just simply don't find it works well enough 'out of the box' for me to switch on over, the other HUGE problem for linux is that I can just plain old re-boot back to Windows if something goes wrong, it's so easy to be lazy. (sorry but it's true)

Here's what I WANT

A recent version of Ubuntu, using my RT2500 or IPW2200 minipci card working with full WPA on my network at 54mbit.
My Atheros card working with Kismet, Aircrack-ng, Aircrack-ptw and I guess optionally WPA - but primarily just a WEP hunter.
Ability to playback video's including recent codecs, examples *cough* Sopranos episodes or Mythbusters for example.
Ability to use Azureus (pretty sure I can do that now)
Hibernate / suspend to ram / disk ability.
Ability to connect to and map Samba shares.

Optional:
3D desktop effects
Burn DVD-Video, ISO's
Emulate Windows or VM-Ware / run a 'real' Windows in a Window for things which require it.
Sync my T-630 phone with a good calendar package and sync said calendar pac

I stopped reading after this point. I hope the conclusion was something on the lines of "it works if you have a live-in geek". That's a cop out - saying you've got a problem but it was resolved by the fact that your partner is a technical expert.


Actually with just a little more research she would have found out that allows 64bit Firefox to use 32bit plugins.

Even with Linux, you can't just run your normal Linux install and point it towards an external drive and have that work. You have to do extra tricks that are... tricky.

A lot of us have given up on ATI because their Linux driver support is so poor.

I'll wager that if you were willing to swap in an Nvidia card, you could install almost any distro with little difficulty. You might be able to find a compatible card on eBay for $200 or so.

That said, I found a thread for you. I found this by searching Google on "linux dell e1505 x1400". This is generally how I've worked through past Linux hardware issues. (Maybe you already did that.)

I can't promise that will work, though. All I can tell you for certain is that the last time I went through this, I tossed the ATI card and got an Nvidia. I know, it sucks, but it's really ATI's fault, not Linux's.

Good luck!

There is, as far as I can tell, only one place in the world where GNOME is more popular than KDE, and that is, surprise surprise, on the Ubuntu Forums. Everywhere else, KDE appears to lead my a margin of roughly 2:1. In particular, it is a consistent winner of the LinuxQuestions Members Choice awards. It's also very popular on the desktops of European government, being used on 10.2% of desktops, compared to GNOME's 5.5% (see page 29).

It always saddens me to see the Big Distros rallying around GNOME and pouring funds into it as I've always viewed Open Source as a meritocracy, whereas the decision to back GNOME development is quite clearly not based on its merits (or at least, not its technical ones), nor even, clearly, on what the end users want. It also strikes me as a terrible waste of resources: GNOME's shaky technical base and general bureaucratic attitude means that even though money is thrown at it, nothing ever seems to get done, with GNOME's busiest days barely matching KDE's laziest, while the KDE team are completely shaking up the code and architecture of their massive code-base on a shoestring. A real shame, but - c'est la vie, I guess!