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• Microtel SYSMAR801 PC With 900 MHz Duron 391.00 (128, 40gb)
• Microtel SYSMAR802 PC With 1.3 GHz Duron $428.00 (128, 40gb)
• Microtel SYSMAR803 PC With 1.3 GHz Celeron $438.00 (128, 40gb)
• Microtel SYSMAR804 PC With 1.3 GHz Duron and CD-RW $498.00 (256, 40gb)
• Microtel SYSMAR805 PC With 1.3 GHz Celeron and CD-RW $498.00 (256, 40gb)
• Microtel SYSMAR806 PC With 1.7 GHz Pentium 4 $528.00 (128, 40gb)
• Microtel SYSMAR807 PC With 1.7 GHz Pentium 4 and CD-RW $588.00 (256, 40gb)
• Microtel SYSMAR808 PC With 2.0 GHz Pentium 4$598.00 (256, 40gb)
• Microtel SYSMAR809 PC With 2.0 GHz Pentium 4 and CD-RW $648.00 (256, 40gb)

  • The caption text for the cheap one is: $391.00, Availability: Usually takes 1 to 7 business days to process before shipping, 128 MB memory, 40 GB hard drive, CD-ROM drive, Ethernet connection, 56 Kbps modem, Mandrake 8.2 Linux OS, Monitor not included

    Mainly the difference seems to be the processor speed and the memory included, all have 40 gb drives and no monitor.

Even though they are clearly in Linux for a buck, that is the ideal situation for retailers. IBM, Sun and the rest, should and do support us technically, Walmart and hopefully soon others by portraying linux as a viable option at the POS.

everytime this comes up, be it lindows on wal*mart pc's, red hat or mandrake, or just plain old no OS, someone forgets to mention that this is an option for PC's bought off of walmart's website, not somthing you can drive down to and pick up from your local walmart. have you ever seen a PC for sale in a retail walmart store? i sure haven't.

as a result, people still have to buy a windows/mac PC (or at least borrow someone's internet access) and get online to order, let alone discover, that walmart sells PCs sans OS, or with linux on them. kinda defeats the purpose, hunh?

Yup you can ;-)

Yes, you can, here.

Yes you can.

Actually, there's still a substantial body of activities (most things, actually) that computers still can't do. The field of Artificial Intelligence as hyped in the 60's, 70's, and 80's has pretty much imploded.

It blows me away, BTW that I was able to link to Dreyfus at WallMart. I doubt if any of Minsky's blather is that widely available.

There are more chickens in Northwest Arkansas than there are people that live east of the Mississippi River. I guess Fayetteville would become the new Silicon Valley--of course, we'd have to call it Chicken Hill, or Cluck Central, or something. Bentonville, Arkansas, headquarters of the World's Largest Corporation, is very near Fayetteville, so if the 'Chicken Chips' really take off, the one-two combo of Wal-Mart and Chicken Transistors could revolutionize the Arkansas economy.

On a totally unrelated note, the hairiest toes I ever saw on a woman was in Arkansas. True story.

WetCat writes:

Trust? OEM!!!
you cannot get rid of OEM software by Microsoft, even if you are not agree to its EULA, did you forget?

Sure you can. Not everyone has to buy from Gateway or Dell.

I asked a similar question on the Olympus Talk forum at DPReview.

I wanted to know the quickest way to scan 1500 photos into my computer. If I could scan 3 at a time on a fast scanner that takes 60 seconds to scan, it would take over 8 hours. If I used a stand and my digital camera to photograph each one, if it took 5 seconds per photo, it would take over 2 hours.

Is there a page feed scanner that can feed 4x6 and 3x5 prints?

Also, a great way to get real photo quality prints from your digital images is to get them printed at Walmart.com. They're inexpensive, very high quality, and they're printed on real photo paper.

PS: I have some of my recent digital albums on my web site.

eh? Which Walmart.com are YOU looking at?

The cheapest Lindows PC is listed at $299.

The cheapest Windows PC is listed at $498.

"Exact same prices"? Are you trolling or just under-caffeinated today?

eh? Which Walmart.com are YOU looking at?

The cheapest Lindows PC is listed at $299.

The cheapest Windows PC is listed at $498.

"Exact same prices"? Are you trolling or just under-caffeinated today?

eh? Which Walmart.com are YOU looking at?

The cheapest Lindows PC is listed at $299.

The cheapest Windows PC is listed at $498.

"Exact same prices"? Are you trolling or just under-caffeinated today?

Personally, for my uses, I'm use the computer for the latter purpose and have been quite happy running Linux on a cheap Cyrix 300 MHz system. I do lot of surfing, writing, and spreadsheet analysis with StarOffice (actually, I've just upgraded to OpenOffice 1.0). However, I have built a number of systems in the past and have found these links are a must:

Pricegrabber

Pricewatch

CNET's price comparison site

Techbargains (if you are patient enough to wait for that perfect machine to be affordable)

Your time is really worth the money, and when it comes down to it, those cheap systems from Dell, Compgeeks, or Walmart are actually worth the heartache that you may encounter later when you find out that the motherboard you bought has spotty USB support in Windows 98. And if you add up how much you'd spend to make a comparable system, you'll find out that you're only saving a miniscule amount, if that. But again, if you wanted a high-end machine, then building your own will definitely be worth the time and effort to find the right parts and putting them together.

PogoLinux

HP

Nixit

HP/Compaq

and now Walmart.

There are probably others too.

AFAIK, it's just walmart.com selling these computers.

I checked my local (Bryan/College Station, Texas) Walmart, Super-Walmart, and Sam's Club for Microtel computers.

They all just carried HP computers. They had no clue about the Microtels.

Actually, Walmart offers its own Internet service: $9.94 a month for email and unlimited dial-up access. They are pushing this service instead of AOHell. And, yes it does work on the Lindows machines.

I just went there and found the phrase missing. Where were you looking?

It isn't here. The text is as Newsforge ("read the page source, Luke! Read the source!" - the link that Slashdot's mangled is http://newsforge.com/newsforge/02/06/18/1344258.sh tml?tid=23 ) claims it to be.

Since the link is broken in the article, the full phrase is:

"The low cost alternative to computers preloaded with Microsoft Windows. These PCs ship with an exciting new Linux based Operating System (OS) named Lindows. This exciting new OS delivers the stability of Linux with the ease of Windows and they include a trial membership to a library of over 1,000 software programs so they can be outfitted for any purpose whether business, home, or entertainment."

The link

Lindows is an exciting new Linux based Operating System (OS). This exciting new OS delivers the stability of Linux with the ease of Windows. These computer systems are a perfect low cost alternative to computers preloaded with Microsoft Windows.

Correct as written - there's no phrase explicitly about being able to run Windows applications. ..but is it sinister? Or just a precursor step to keep Microsoft from bashing the living hell out of any merchant agreement they might have?

Er yes it has. To quote from the page in question,


The low cost alternative to computers preloaded with Microsoft Windows. These PCs ship with an exciting new Linux based Operating System (OS) named Lindows. This exciting new OS delivers the stability of Linux with the ease of Windows and they include a trial membership to a library of over 1,000 software programs so they can be outfitted for any purpose whether business, home, or entertainment.

I don't see anything in there about running most MS software.

With reasonable quality DVD players going for $69, who can blame them?

The one listed above is the newer model of the one I own, and the same model my friend bought. Apex is not a huge brand here yet, but these are nice little units and play VCDs and MP3 CDs as well; a nice selling point for geeks.

They don't want to catch 10 kinds of hell from MS about selling "naked" PCs, so they throw Lindows on it instead.

Interesting idea, but Wal*Mart is still selling the "PCs Without Windows".

Linux Books on WalMart.com

Lots of kids are going to be doing their homework on those boxes. This is Microsoft's greatest fear - OS price competition at retail.

C'mon, a loaded up
AMD 850 for US$300?

Lindows, AFAIK, doesn't offer the source code, and could very well be clandestinely operated by Microsoft (which could explain Lindows ability to run Win programs)

This
lawsuit could very well be propaganda to fool the public in thinking these 2 forces are opposed to each other.

The default Lindows install could come with ftp, telnet, http, etc. all open, unsecured, and ready to r007, thus further damaging Linux's repuation.

Just wait till $consumer deals with file permissions... "What? Whaddaya mean I don't have permission to open that file!?! I own this computer and it's my property, dammit! No one tells me what to do with my property!!!"
</conspiracy_theory>

Okay, I'll stop before I start feeling the urge to make an aluminum foil helmet

$498.00 - Microsoft Windows, 1.3 GHz Celeron, 128 Meg RAM, 40 GB hard drive 52X cdrom, ethernet, modem

$399.00 - Lindows, 1.3 GHz Celeron, 128 Meg RAM, 40 GB hard drive 52X cdrom, ethernet, modem

Did I miss anything? The Windows machine mentions something about the graphics card, but it's "integrated" (not an AGP card), so both machines probably have the same video on the motherboard?? Is that a reasonable assumption?

Looks like there's a reason Bill's so rich...

$498.00 - Microsoft Windows, 1.3 GHz Celeron, 128 Meg RAM, 40 GB hard drive 52X cdrom, ethernet, modem

$399.00 - Lindows, 1.3 GHz Celeron, 128 Meg RAM, 40 GB hard drive 52X cdrom, ethernet, modem

Did I miss anything? The Windows machine mentions something about the graphics card, but it's "integrated" (not an AGP card), so both machines probably have the same video on the motherboard?? Is that a reasonable assumption?

Looks like there's a reason Bill's so rich...

Top Matches for "lindows" If that's any indication how they're selling them in brick & mortar stores, expect a lot of pissed of people returning them. The text of the ad states Monitor not included! in bold, but only says 'Lindows OS' I doubt the average Walmart computer shopper is going to understand exactly what they're buying here, or even notice that it's not a windows PC.

Windows PC $498 USD
Same PC with Lindows $399 USD
Same PC with no OS $399 USD
I would say they pass the savings on to customers. But then again, I don't really know Windows XP OEM pricing.

Windows PC $498 USD
Same PC with Lindows $399 USD
Same PC with no OS $399 USD
I would say they pass the savings on to customers. But then again, I don't really know Windows XP OEM pricing.

Windows PC $498 USD
Same PC with Lindows $399 USD
Same PC with no OS $399 USD
I would say they pass the savings on to customers. But then again, I don't really know Windows XP OEM pricing.

Lindows at Walmart

These computers do not ship with Microsoft Windows. They ship with an exciting new UNIX based Operating System (OS) named Lindows. This exciting new OS delivers the stability of UNIX with the ease of Windows and the ability to run most Microsoft programs. These computer systems are a perfect low cost alternative to computers preloaded with Microsoft Windows.

Taken from the site

I like the low cost alternative line. Looks to to me like they are selling barebones boxes and including lindows to stop MS from starting some kind of legal war. Saying that Wal-Mart is encouraging warez.

[walmart.com] is the
Microtel PCs Without Windows category and the first PC there boasts Windows XP Home Edition.

Click on more info, notice it says under more info that Windows is not included.

Some lackey made a typo on the main listings page.

Bleh.

Notice this 'higher end' model also has an LCD shown in its preview photo even though no monitor is included at all? The assumption being of course that with a high end PC of course an LCD would be what is used. . . . Heh.

Hmm, actualy that ain't a half bad comp, heh, HDs small, but. . . .

beh

Annnyways.

Oh wait thats it.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product_listing.gsp ?path=0%3A3944%3A3951%3A41937%3A86796%3A86798&dept =3944&cat=86798&sb=61&bti=0 is the
Microtel PCs Without Windows category and the first PC there boasts Windows XP Home Edition.

To sum it up, the techie user can purchase blank cards, shipped to anywhere in the world; buy a card hardware-programmer to reset the card when it gets periodically zapped by the tv companies; you can easily get new programming updates to defeat said electronic zaps/bombs/bullets/pulses via the Web from fellow pirates^Wunathorized users. Oh, originally, blank cards where had by the layman from low-balled Walmart dss receiver offers. Walmart specials, iow, where had for $100USD+, the cards were ripped out, and the receiver itself was discarded. Read the piece, it'll become clearer.

To sum it up, the techie user can purchase blank cards, shipped to anywhere in the world; buy a card hardware-programmer to reset the card when it gets periodically zapped by the tv companies; you can easily get new programming updates to defeat said electronic zaps/bombs/bullets/pulses via the Web from fellow pirates^Wunathorized users. Oh, originally, blank cards where had by the layman from low-balled Walmart dss receiver offers. Walmart specials, iow, where had for $100USD+, the cards were ripped out, and the receiver itself was discarded. Read the piece, it'll become clearer.

For software, if you're running an MS OS, I can almost guarantee that you're not putting StarOffice or OpenOffice on it. For that matter, the school probably has to negotiate all the software at the same time, and if they negotiate for the OS but not for Office do you think MS would drop as far on the price? (By the way, that would've been one potential benefit of splitting MS into OS and Applications groups.)

For the hardware, consider this $498 OS-less computer from WalMart. For that matter, why go with a 1.6GHz P4 when a 1GHz Celeron or Duron is available for $100 less and will still more than meet your needs for student workstations? No monitor, but how much more will a 15-17 inch monitor cost? For that matter, how many existing monitors are there that could be kept and reused?

I think this product is targeted towards the advanced users out there, as much of the "mainstream" users would at least think twice before buying a PC, then have to install an OS. However, most of the people I know who install and configure their own operating systems (whether windows or linux) tend to want to build their own systems themselves. Personally, I never purchase manufactured computers because I want to make sure I get "top quality" components, such as a versitile/highly configurable motherboard (like asus, i'm not endorsing). Especially when you install Linux, it's good to know exactly the hardware specs, and the easiest way to do that is to put it all together yourself.

Despite this, I feel Walmart & Microtel are doing a good job at showing that Windows isnt the only way to compute. The Microtel SYSMAR506 - Athlon 1.4 seems a good deal at around $500 for budget consious families who want to expose technology affordably to their children or for geeks who need a computer fast and cheap. It would be nice if they included both Windows and Linux drivers, but i know that 1.) Just the fact that it includes windows drivers is a much better improvement than Compaq's "recovery cd" that doesn't have drivers, and 2.) a lot of hardware is automatically detected under Linux, so it may not be necessary

i think i'll walk over to my local walmart and check them out..

FYI - you can't. They are only available through the walmart website. I went into my local walmart to take a looksee at these things a couple of weeks ago. All I found were HP's and Compaq's with WinXP pre-installed. I asked, and was told that the OS-less machines are only available via online order.

These machines are obviously an affordable

Not as affordable as one might think. Here's a link to the PCs in question. They don't look much better than a bundled Dell or Gateway entry with Windows and all that other stuff. Not that I am for Windows or anything. I just think it would be better for everyone if they didn't scrap the OS for the sake of raising margins.

While this was widely hailed in the Open Source community as a victory over the "Microsoft tax," which usually afflicts buyers of Linux PCs, one major question remained unanswered: How well do these machines support Linux? Some PCs produced today are crammed with "value-added" (otherwise known as "brain dead") hardware that only works with specific drivers -- drivers that are frequently available under Windows alone.

So, in order to get the straight scoop, we went off to the Wal-Mart Web site to purchase a system and load Linux on it.

Choices, choices

As previously mentioned, the Wal-Mart site currently lists 14 machines without an operating system. All are listed under the Microtel brand, and include a selection of Celeron, Duron, Athlon, and Pentium 4 processors ranging from 1 to 2 GHz. The prices range from a consumer-friendly U.S. $398 for a 1 GHz Duron or Celeron box, to a top-end 2 GHz Pentium 4 at U.S. $868. The low end offerings start with a "mere" 128 MB of memory, while the upper end tops out at hefty 512 MB installed. And to think that I still have a few 256 KB (yes, that's one quarter of a megabyte) SIMMs sitting in my drawer. The low end is a heck of a lot nicer than it was just a few years ago.

For the purposes of this review, we ordered a 1 GHz Duron system for U.S. $398. We figured that this would be a relatively popular selection among the more cost-conscious Linux users. With shipping, the total was a manageable U.S. $413. We ordered the PC on the evening of April 11 and it came to my door on April 22.

First look

The order arrived in a single, well-designed shipping box. In addition to the standard mini tower, the system includes a keyboard, a two-button mouse with scroll wheel, a pair of inexpensive speakers, and all the usual cables. The mini tower reminds me of any number of PC clone towers I have seen recently, but people buying these units are interested in functionality, not geek chic. The system also included the manufacturer's booklets for the motherboard and CDROM drive, as well as CDs with Windows drivers.

Inside the unit, there is a 40 GB Samsung drive, 128 MB of memory (8 MB of which is shared as video), and 52x LG CDROM Drive. The motherboard is a Microstar MicroATX motherboard model MS-6378. It has 2 DIMM slots (1 used), 3 PCI slots (one of which is occupied by a modem card), and 1 unused CNR slot. Sound and ethernet are handled on the motherboard, which also sports an Award BIOS dated 2/25/2002.

For those so inclined, the motherboard manual does say that the board supports overclocking, but it also provides the usual warnings about the risks of overclocking. So, it appears that speed freaks may be able to tweak the clock speed at their own risk.

Setting up the system was the same as setting up any standard clone. Plug in the keyboard, mouse, speakers, and power cord. The only essential item that is missing is a monitor (you will probably want to add a mouse pad and a surge suppressor, but those are optional).

Running under DemoLinux V3

For a quick check of the system, I put a DemoLinux version 3 CD in the CDROM drive and booted the system up. I found that the video came up fine using the framebuffer driver. Sound, likewise, was detected without incident. The only two items that did not function on boot-up were the modem and the ethernet. The ethernet was brought to life easily by loading the tulip driver and configuring the network interface. The modem, however, was another matter. I decided to wait to until I actually installed Linux to tackle that problem.

Installing Mandrake 8.1

Figuring that it was time to get serious, I began installing Mandrake version 8.1 on the system. I selected the most automated form of installation (as a Linux newbie might) to see how the process would fare. I was pleased with the results.

The installation went without incident. The Mandrake installer detected and configured the video, sound, and network without pain. At no time was there any indication that the installer was fighting strange hardware. I was thrilled.

But there was one fly in the ointment: the modem. The modem clearly was not a true hardware modem. So, using the "lspci -vv" command from an xterm (you can get the same result by looking at the PCI Information from the KDE Control Center), I tried to identify the type of modem in the machine. It was identified as an unidentified "Lucent Microelectronics" device. Thankfully, this meant that there might be a working Linux driver for this modem.

I traveled to linmodems.org and found the link to Randal Oliveira's site for Lucent drivers. Note that the Lucent drivers require kernel modules that must be recompiled for each version of the kernel, so it is essential that you either find a module that is compiled against the appropriate kernel, or else you will need to compile it yourself. After a couple of minutes, I located an RPM that someone had created for the Lucent drivers under Mandrake 8.1. After downloading and installing the RPM, I decided to reboot to see if the device would now be found on startup. Much to my delight, it was!

Unfortunately, my delight did not last. When I actually tried to use the modem, I found that the AT commands all worked as expected, but I could not get the modem to go off hook, recognize the dial tone, or generate touch tones. I spent hours on this with no joy.

Running under SuSE v7.2 Live Eval

Next, I wanted to see how SuSE Linux would handle the machine. I didn't have a full SuSE kit on hand, but I did have a V7.2 Live Evaluation CD handy. Like DemoLinux, this allows you to run SuSE Linux from the CD with no actual installation. I found that the SuSE Live Eval system detected everything fine, except for the modem. Not a bad result from a non-installed system.

Installing Red Hat v7.1

I then tried to install Red Hat V7.1 and found results close to my Mandrake experience. Everything loaded fine, except for the sound card and modem. The sound card was quickly activated by choosing the automatic configuration option from the sound configuration utility. I then downloaded a copy of the Lucent modem driver for Red Hat V7.1 and promptly found that the modem was behaving exactly as it did under Mandrake. The AT commands all seemed to work until you attempted to dial. The phone line never went off-hook and touch tones were never generated.

After several hours of investigation on the Web and experimentation, I could not find an answer. I tried different IRQs, changed settings in the CMOS, checked the phone line ... nothing.

So, in my desperation, I decided to confirm that the darn modem actually worked. I pulled an unused Windows ME distribution off the shelf, installed it, and loaded the modem driver. To my surprise, the modem dialed the phone. I checked the settings under Windows and found they were identical to the default settings detected under Linux.

I reloaded Red Hat and played some more. No change. I could get replies to the AT commands, but I could not get it to do anything remotely productive with the telephone line. There may be a solution to this, but it certainly isn't obvious.

Conclusion

The Wal-Mart machine itself strikes me as a very reasonable clone. With the exception of the modem, all the hardware seems to work. I have had to live with useless modems in clones before, but at least this modem is a card that can be removed from the machine. I should also note that Mandrake installed on the box easier than Windows ME did. If I had wanted to keep Windows on the machine, I would have had to manually install drivers for both the ethernet and sound card, because Windows did neither on installation.

So it appears that the Wal-Mart machine as tested makes a very reasonable Linux box. But I suggest you lose the Lucent modem card and replace it with a real hardware modem.

Perhaps you should consider Walmart's Microtel PCs without Windows. Assuming you don't need software or monitors, you can get a 1GHz Celeron for $400. The trick is the legallity of transfering your Windows licenses (Which piece of the original computer does the license go with, the hard drive? Can you swap that piece into the new system). [Of course, if you could convert to Linux, that would be cool, but that's probably a separate battle.]

Umm...Ok.

How about this?

Not to mention people who want support. Or rack mount servers.

By the time you buy a rack chassis and the compatable parts, you might as well have purchased it from Dell.

Or, if computers is your business, i.e. webhosting, you want something with a warranty, because if it breaks, as far as the clients are concerned, it's *your* problem to fix.

Plus you have to look at: If you can get a system from dell for $500 with a celeron 1.1 Ghz, 256 MB ram, and a 20 gigabyte hard drive, you have to think, by the time you get all that from pricewatch, you're going to spend about $400 by the time you include shipping, they send the parts class R mail, and they're not quality pieces anyway, then you have to pay your employees $10/hr to put it together and test it? Not only do you lose time, but you lose money cause the time could have been spent doing something else.

Even walmart sells computers with no windows. Honestly, its hard to save money building your own low end system anymore.

at WalMart

You can take a look at this one too.
Wal-Mart.com

I am very curious what happened between Wal-Mart and MS, to cause them to offer PCs without an OS. You know MS has to be mega-pissed about it, but I doubt they can do anything. There's a HUGE ancillary market, giving support for these OS-less PCs, though my suspicion would be that the vast majority of these units will wind up with bootleg copies of Windows.